>On Oct 26, 4:41=A0am, Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
>> On 25/10/12 11:07 PM, Evan Kirshenbaum wrote:

>> > =A0 =A0http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DTJ9f2rnjB84

>> Good grief. I don't know how many times I've seen that, and yet I had
>> never noticed. We so often hear what we expect to hear. You can see why
>> I wrote "(yet)".

>Didn't you realize that "pestle" was meant to rhyme with "vessel"?

>>> in 1913950 20121025 160942 Evan Kirshenbaum<evan.kirshenb...@gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>> Bob Martin<bob.mar...@excite.com>  writes:

>>>>> The late Fred Dibnah used to pronounce "whole" as "wole" (rhyming with sole).

>>>> How do you pronounce "whole" to not rhyme with "sole"?

>>>> The OED only gives one pronunciation for each, and the vowel is the
>>>> same: /@U/.  I'd say /oU/ for AmE.

>>> I obviously wasn't clear - the point I was making was that Fred
>>> pronounced "whole" as "wole" not "hole" as everyone else does.

>> I got that point.  I just assumed that the "(rhyming with sole)" meant
>> that he also changed the vowel.

> At first sight some of us might be inclined to pronounce "wole" like
> "Wole".  I took it that "rhyming with sole" was intended to head us
> off.

>> Bob Martin <bob.mar...@excite.com> writes:

>> > Yesterday the BBC R3 newsreader referred to "wooping cough" though I
>> > have only previously heard "hooping cough".

>> /wupIN/ is what I learned in Chicago.

> It's always been /'hu:pIN/ in this country.  This was discussed
> relatively recently.  (I believe "pertussis" is the standard term in
> the US.)

> "Evan Kirshenbaum" wrote in message news:a9v95eo1.fsf@gmail.com...
>> Okay. How do you pronounce "Wole" to not rhyme with "sole"?

> This is the only "Wole" I know of, and he's definitely two syllables:

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wole_Soyinka

>>> On 24/10/12 10:46 PM, Jerry Friedman wrote:

>>>> I've heard two people pronounce the "t" in "pestle", though I don't
>>>> think they would in "nestle", "castle", etc.  One insisted that
>>>> dropping the "t" was wrong.  She also insisted that the "w" in
>>>> "sword" (another one we missed) should be pronounced.

>>> I don't think I've heard "pestle" pronounced without the t (yet).

>> Even when compounding a pessary?...r

>That is a meaning of pessary I hadn't come across either. I think of
>them as rubber devices. However, I haven't come across one of those
>either (yet).

>>Steve Hayes <hayes...@telkomsa.net> writes:

>>> On Wed, 24 Oct 2012 09:53:59 +0100, "Guy Barry" <guy.ba...@blueyonder.co.uk>
>>> wrote:

>>>>That sort of thing's pretty common in English.  Most people pronounce "at
>>>>all" at though it were "a tall".

>>> When I was about 8 or 9 years old, if people asked me what kind of
>>> dog I had, I would say "a nalsatian", because that's what I heard it
>>> called (AmE=named).

>>I'm not sure if you're serious there, but that's fine as "called" in
>>AmE.  Breeds of dogs don't have true names.

>A woman I used to work with trained them as companion animals for the disabled,
>and I saw a fair amount of literature about them...the official name of that
>breed seems to be "German Shepherd Dog", and yes, all three words are
>included....r

>>On 26/10/12 3:52 AM, R H Draney wrote:
>>> Robert Bannister filted:

>>>> On 24/10/12 10:46 PM, Jerry Friedman wrote:

>>>>> I've heard two people pronounce the "t" in "pestle", though I don't
>>>>> think they would in "nestle", "castle", etc.  One insisted that
>>>>> dropping the "t" was wrong.  She also insisted that the "w" in
>>>>> "sword" (another one we missed) should be pronounced.

>>>> I don't think I've heard "pestle" pronounced without the t (yet).

>>> Even when compounding a pessary?...r

>>That is a meaning of pessary I hadn't come across either. I think of
>>them as rubber devices. However, I haven't come across one of those
>>either (yet).

>I once shot a pessary when I was working on an estancia in Paraguay.
>In case you don't know them very well, they're fairly small, but very
>aggressive and go round in packs: they'll rip you to bits with their
>teeth. I was on my own, mending a fence, when I heard the tell-tale
>grunts and squeals. On these occasions, you don't hang about to
>discuss peace terms, you just high-tail it for the nearest tree.
>Which, in this case, was a mature jacaranda. I paid no attention to
>the fine display of blossom, but somehow made it to a stout branch six
>feet off the ground. My tormentors clustered round below, with every
>evidence of enthusiasm. I then became aware, with an increasing sense
>of urgency, that the tree was by no means untenanted...I gathered my
>breath for as long as the ants would allow, and then hauled out my
>Colt and took a good aim at what seemed to be the pessaries' leader.
>The range was short, so I was fortunate enough to bring about a change
>of heart among the little brutes, who swore a bit, and, encouraged by
>a few more otherwise ineffective shots, ran for the high grass. My
>horse had wisely withdrawn to a very safe distance, so I had fair -
>not to mention apprehensive and itchy - walk back in the fading light.

>>On Fri, 26 Oct 2012 11:43:15 +0800, Robert Bannister
>><rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:

>>>On 26/10/12 3:52 AM, R H Draney wrote:
>>>> Robert Bannister filted:

>>>>> On 24/10/12 10:46 PM, Jerry Friedman wrote:

>>>>>> I've heard two people pronounce the "t" in "pestle", though I don't
>>>>>> think they would in "nestle", "castle", etc.  One insisted that
>>>>>> dropping the "t" was wrong.  She also insisted that the "w" in
>>>>>> "sword" (another one we missed) should be pronounced.

>>>>> I don't think I've heard "pestle" pronounced without the t (yet).

>>>> Even when compounding a pessary?...r

>>>That is a meaning of pessary I hadn't come across either. I think of
>>>them as rubber devices. However, I haven't come across one of those
>>>either (yet).

>>I once shot a pessary when I was working on an estancia in Paraguay.
>>In case you don't know them very well, they're fairly small, but very
>>aggressive and go round in packs: they'll rip you to bits with their
>>teeth. I was on my own, mending a fence, when I heard the tell-tale
>>grunts and squeals. On these occasions, you don't hang about to
>>discuss peace terms, you just high-tail it for the nearest tree.
>>Which, in this case, was a mature jacaranda. I paid no attention to
>>the fine display of blossom, but somehow made it to a stout branch six
>>feet off the ground. My tormentors clustered round below, with every
>>evidence of enthusiasm. I then became aware, with an increasing sense
>>of urgency, that the tree was by no means untenanted...I gathered my
>>breath for as long as the ants would allow, and then hauled out my
>>Colt and took a good aim at what seemed to be the pessaries' leader.
>>The range was short, so I was fortunate enough to bring about a change
>>of heart among the little brutes, who swore a bit, and, encouraged by
>>a few more otherwise ineffective shots, ran for the high grass. My
>>horse had wisely withdrawn to a very safe distance, so I had fair -
>>not to mention apprehensive and itchy - walk back in the fading light.

>The Colt reference disappoints me.  I had you in mind for a
>Webley-Fosbery with a ring in the butt of the grip with a lanyard
>attached.  A T.E. Lawrence sidearm.

> I once shot a pessary when I was working on an estancia in Paraguay.
> In case you don't know them very well, they're fairly small, but very
> aggressive and go round in packs: they'll rip you to bits with their
> teeth. I was on my own, mending a fence, when I heard the tell-tale
> grunts and squeals. On these occasions, you don't hang about to
> discuss peace terms, you just high-tail it for the nearest tree.

>>On Fri, 26 Oct 2012 21:45:31 +0100, Mike L <n...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>>>On Fri, 26 Oct 2012 11:43:15 +0800, Robert Bannister
>>><rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:

>>>>On 26/10/12 3:52 AM, R H Draney wrote:
>>>>> Robert Bannister filted:

>>>>>> On 24/10/12 10:46 PM, Jerry Friedman wrote:

>>>>>>> I've heard two people pronounce the "t" in "pestle", though I don't
>>>>>>> think they would in "nestle", "castle", etc.  One insisted that
>>>>>>> dropping the "t" was wrong.  She also insisted that the "w" in
>>>>>>> "sword" (another one we missed) should be pronounced.

>>>>>> I don't think I've heard "pestle" pronounced without the t (yet).

>>>>> Even when compounding a pessary?...r

>>>>That is a meaning of pessary I hadn't come across either. I think of
>>>>them as rubber devices. However, I haven't come across one of those
>>>>either (yet).

>>>I once shot a pessary when I was working on an estancia in Paraguay.
>>>In case you don't know them very well, they're fairly small, but very
>>>aggressive and go round in packs: they'll rip you to bits with their
>>>teeth. I was on my own, mending a fence, when I heard the tell-tale
>>>grunts and squeals. On these occasions, you don't hang about to
>>>discuss peace terms, you just high-tail it for the nearest tree.
>>>Which, in this case, was a mature jacaranda. I paid no attention to
>>>the fine display of blossom, but somehow made it to a stout branch six
>>>feet off the ground. My tormentors clustered round below, with every
>>>evidence of enthusiasm. I then became aware, with an increasing sense
>>>of urgency, that the tree was by no means untenanted...I gathered my
>>>breath for as long as the ants would allow, and then hauled out my
>>>Colt and took a good aim at what seemed to be the pessaries' leader.
>>>The range was short, so I was fortunate enough to bring about a change
>>>of heart among the little brutes, who swore a bit, and, encouraged by
>>>a few more otherwise ineffective shots, ran for the high grass. My
>>>horse had wisely withdrawn to a very safe distance, so I had fair -
>>>not to mention apprehensive and itchy - walk back in the fading light.

>>The Colt reference disappoints me.  I had you in mind for a
>>Webley-Fosbery with a ring in the butt of the grip with a lanyard
>>attached.  A T.E. Lawrence sidearm.

>Ah, well. I've always favoured the exotic. And Webleys had ludicrously
>strong springs: you want to release your shot, not wrestle it out.

>> That sort of thing's pretty common in English.  Most people pronounce "at
>> all" at though it were "a tall".

> When I was about 8 or 9 years old, if people asked me what kind of dog I had,
> I would say "a nalsatian", because that's what I heard it called (AmE=named).

> > I hope you are well & in good spirits.

> > I wonder, have you known people who pronounce certain words strangely, often for no reason you can determine?

> > These people may be well educated and otherwise well-spoken, but they pronounce a given word or a small number of words in an odd way that you cannot trace to a known dialect; perhaps in a way that no one else of whom you are aware pronounces that word.

> > I find such pronunciations interesting (sometimes even intriguing) and often amusing. I always wonder what curious chain of events (in childhood? in college?) resulted in these non-standard pronunciations.

> > If you have known such people, I'd be interested to learn of their peculiar pronunciations of their special words. Please do share them with us, if you would.

> > I'll give some instances....

> > A friend who pronounces the word "absurd" as if it were spelled with a 'z' -- "abzurd"

> > A particularly charismatic acquaintance (and frequent public speaker) who pronounces the word "program" as if it were spelled "progrum" -- "PRO-grum"

> > An acquaintance (a minister) who pronounces the word "other" as if it were the word "leather" without the "L" -- "ether" (with a voiced 'th' and a short 'e')

> > An acquaintance who pronounces the word "milk" as if it were spelled "melk". (This acquaintance also pronounces "Washington" as if it were spelled "Warshington". I assume he also "warshes" the dishes on occasion.)

> > A friend with a wonderful, magnetic memory who pronounces the phrase "each other" as if it were "ee CHUTHer" -- the 'ch' migrating ahead to join the next word.

> > (This is an odd one indeed) A friend who pronounces the word "Friday" almost as if the 'd' were replaced with a 't' or some consonant in-between the two -- "Fritay" or "Fried-tay"; curiously, he does not pronounce the other days of the week with this hybrid consonant!)

> > A sociable acquaintance -- the chairman of a small investment company in San Francisco (California, USA) -- who dwells on the second syllable of the word "infrastructure" -- "in-FRAAH-structure".  He sometimes uses the word as if it is peculiarly profound and as if he is introducing it to you for the first time.

> > A friend & former professor (now sadly deceased -- he was the founder of the wonderful websitewww.aldaily.com) who pronounced the word "theologian" as "thee-AHHL-uh-jen". He didn't have a high opinion of theologians. I often thought it was a not-so-subtle expression of his feeling that "this profession is so unimportant that I don't even have to pronounce its name correctly". (He and I did not agree on this. Incidentally, shortly before his death, he gave this very interesting TED talk:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PktUzdnBqWI)

> > Well, those are a few instances of "certain persons who pronounce certain words strangely."

> > I would be interested to learn of any such persons and usages that you've encountered.

> > Thank you in advance for anything you might care to share....

> In the UK these would be hang-overs of local dialects, which have
> pretty much died out over my lifetime. We used to get our friend to
> repeat "Vorksall" and "tth-brush" (Vauxhall and toothbrush) over and
> over - for our amusement; the sole remains of his Bridgwater in
> Somerset dialect.- Hide quoted text -

>>>     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJ9f2rnjB84

>> Good grief. I don't know how many times I've seen that, and yet I had
>> never noticed. We so often hear what we expect to hear. You can see why
>> I wrote "(yet)".

> Didn't you realize that "pestle" was meant to rhyme with "vessel"?

>> On 26/10/12 3:52 AM, R H Draney wrote:
>>> Robert Bannister filted:

>>>> On 24/10/12 10:46 PM, Jerry Friedman wrote:

>>>>> I've heard two people pronounce the "t" in "pestle", though I don't
>>>>> think they would in "nestle", "castle", etc.  One insisted that
>>>>> dropping the "t" was wrong.  She also insisted that the "w" in
>>>>> "sword" (another one we missed) should be pronounced.

>>>> I don't think I've heard "pestle" pronounced without the t (yet).

>>> Even when compounding a pessary?...r

>> That is a meaning of pessary I hadn't come across either. I think of
>> them as rubber devices. However, I haven't come across one of those
>> either (yet).

> I once shot a pessary when I was working on an estancia in Paraguay.
> In case you don't know them very well, they're fairly small, but very
> aggressive and go round in packs: they'll rip you to bits with their
> teeth. I was on my own, mending a fence, when I heard the tell-tale
> grunts and squeals. On these occasions, you don't hang about to
> discuss peace terms, you just high-tail it for the nearest tree.
> Which, in this case, was a mature jacaranda. I paid no attention to
> the fine display of blossom, but somehow made it to a stout branch six
> feet off the ground. My tormentors clustered round below, with every
> evidence of enthusiasm. I then became aware, with an increasing sense
> of urgency, that the tree was by no means untenanted...I gathered my
> breath for as long as the ants would allow, and then hauled out my
> Colt and took a good aim at what seemed to be the pessaries' leader.
> The range was short, so I was fortunate enough to bring about a change
> of heart among the little brutes, who swore a bit, and, encouraged by
> a few more otherwise ineffective shots, ran for the high grass. My
> horse had wisely withdrawn to a very safe distance, so I had fair -
> not to mention apprehensive and itchy - walk back in the fading light.

>> I've heard two people pronounce the "t" in "pestle", though I don't
>> think they would in "nestle", "castle", etc.  One insisted that
>> dropping the "t" was wrong.  She also insisted that the "w" in
>> "sword" (another one we missed) should be pronounced.

> I don't think I've heard "pestle" pronounced without the t (yet).

>On 27/10/12 4:45 AM, Mike L wrote:

>> I once shot a pessary when I was working on an estancia in Paraguay.
>> In case you don't know them very well, they're fairly small, but very
>> aggressive and go round in packs: they'll rip you to bits with their
>> teeth. I was on my own, mending a fence, when I heard the tell-tale
>> grunts and squeals. On these occasions, you don't hang about to
>> discuss peace terms, you just high-tail it for the nearest tree.
>> Which, in this case, was a mature jacaranda. I paid no attention to
>> the fine display of blossom, but somehow made it to a stout branch six
>> feet off the ground. My tormentors clustered round below, with every
>> evidence of enthusiasm. I then became aware, with an increasing sense
>> of urgency, that the tree was by no means untenanted...I gathered my
>> breath for as long as the ants would allow, and then hauled out my
>> Colt and took a good aim at what seemed to be the pessaries' leader.
>> The range was short, so I was fortunate enough to bring about a change
>> of heart among the little brutes, who swore a bit, and, encouraged by
>> a few more otherwise ineffective shots, ran for the high grass. My
>> horse had wisely withdrawn to a very safe distance, so I had fair -
>> not to mention apprehensive and itchy - walk back in the fading light.

>I presume the "peckery" is the male of the species.

>> "Evan Kirshenbaum" wrote in message news:a9v95eo1.fsf@gmail.com...
>>> Okay. How do you pronounce "Wole" to not rhyme with "sole"?

>> This is the only "Wole" I know of, and he's definitely two syllables:

>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wole_Soyinka

>That's the one.  And that's the only pronunciation of "Wole" that most
>of us have come across.  So in order to make a point about "whole" being
>pronounced "wole" as opposed to "hole", it's helpful to be clear that
>it's not Wole.

>At least, I thought so.

>>> That sort of thing's pretty common in English.  Most people pronounce "at
>>> all" at though it were "a tall".

>> When I was about 8 or 9 years old, if people asked me what kind of dog I had,
>> I would say "a nalsatian", because that's what I heard it called (AmE=named).

> And we know that many English words like orange, adder, apron have
> come about precisely because people thought the initial "n" was part
> of "an".

>"Mark Brader"  wrote in message
>news:yo6dnVhDofNX_RbNnZ2dnUVZ_r-dnZ2d@vex.net...

>> Robert Bannister:

>> > I am not even sure whether "chalice" and "palace" are
>> > true rhymes in my speech, but they're quite sufficient here.

>> Both pairs are true rhymes for me.  Pess'll, vess'll, challiss,
>> palliss.

>And "brew" and "true", of course.  Funnily enough, though, I can never get
>"pellet" to rhyme with "poison".