Mystifying -y

[Mike Lyle]

I've once or twice boggled gently on hearing a Brit speaker pronounce
"broccoli" with a "bite" vowel at the end, but today on a new foodie
programme with the irritating (not, I think, his fault) Jay Rayner
somebody did it to "salsify". Then, on PM, we heard an Indian lady
announce her intention to mark Dickens's bicentenary by reading from
"Nicholas Nickle-bye". Her English was excellent, I may say: so is
this pronunciation normal in those parts?

--
Mike.

[Peter Duncanson (BrE)]

On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 18:49:50 +0000, Mike Lyle <mike_l...@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:

>I've once or twice boggled gently on hearing a Brit speaker pronounce
>"broccoli" with a "bite" vowel at the end,

Rhyming with "octopi"?

> but today on a new foodie
>programme with the irritating (not, I think, his fault) Jay Rayner
>somebody did it to "salsify".

Rhyming with "satisfy", "beautify", "deify", etc?

>Then, on PM, we heard an Indian lady
>announce her intention to mark Dickens's bicentenary by reading from
>"Nicholas Nickle-bye". Her English was excellent, I may say: so is
>this pronunciation normal in those parts?

She didn't by any chance have a Birmingham accent?

--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

[Donna Richoux]

Mike Lyle <mike_l...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> I've once or twice boggled gently on hearing a Brit speaker pronounce
> "broccoli" with a "bite" vowel at the end, but today on a new foodie
> programme with the irritating (not, I think, his fault) Jay Rayner
> somebody did it to "salsify".

Merriam Webster lists two pronunciations, basically SAL-si-fee and
sal-si-FYE. The second is the way I know it -- like "satisfy".

I would assume it's a rare word so people have trouble forming opinions.
I never saw or ate it until I came to the Netherlands and found it as
"schorsenier".

>Then, on PM, we heard an Indian lady
> announce her intention to mark Dickens's bicentenary by reading from
> "Nicholas Nickle-bye". Her English was excellent, I may say: so is
> this pronunciation normal in those parts?

Interesting. Lullaby, passerby, whereby -- the form does exist.

--
Best -- Donna Richoux
An American living in the Netherlands

[Jerry Friedman]

On Feb 7, 1:01 pm, t...@euronet.nl (Donna Richoux) wrote:

> Mike Lyle <mike_lyle...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> > I've once or twice boggled gently on hearing a Brit speaker pronounce
> > "broccoli" with a "bite" vowel at the end, but today on a new foodie
> > programme with the irritating (not, I think, his fault) Jay Rayner
> > somebody did it to "salsify".
>
> Merriam Webster lists two pronunciations, basically SAL-si-fee and
> sal-si-FYE. The second is the way I know it -- like "satisfy".

I've heard both, but say "salsifee".

> I would assume it's a rare word so people have trouble forming opinions.
> I never saw or ate it until I came to the Netherlands and found it as
> "schorsenier".

According to rumor, the vegetable is trendy, so we may be hearing the
name more. I hope to eat it someday.

The Dutch Wikipedia says the vegetable called just plain salsify in
English is "De paarse morgenster of boksbaard (/Tragopogon
porrifolius/), ook wel haverwortel, armeluisasperges, witte
schorseneren, oesterplant, boksbaard en keukenmeidenverdriet
genoemd..." Just plain "schorseneren" is the very similar and closely
related called scorzonera or black salsify in English, /Scorzonera
hispanica/. So their schorseneren can be our black salsify and our
salsify can be their white scorzonera.

Poor man's asparagus? Oatroot? They probably didn't need to call it
"goatsbeard" twice.

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paarse_morgenster

--
Jerry Friedman

[Robin Bignall]

On Tue, 7 Feb 2012 21:01:59 +0100, tr...@euronet.nl (Donna Richoux)
wrote:

>Mike Lyle <mike_l...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> I've once or twice boggled gently on hearing a Brit speaker pronounce
>> "broccoli" with a "bite" vowel at the end, but today on a new foodie
>> programme with the irritating (not, I think, his fault) Jay Rayner
>> somebody did it to "salsify".
>
>Merriam Webster lists two pronunciations, basically SAL-si-fee and
>sal-si-FYE. The second is the way I know it -- like "satisfy".
>
>I would assume it's a rare word so people have trouble forming opinions.
>I never saw or ate it until I came to the Netherlands and found it as
>"schorsenier".
>

It comes from the French, salsifis, which has short 'i' syllables --
salseefee --, and which is where I first came across it.

>>Then, on PM, we heard an Indian lady
>> announce her intention to mark Dickens's bicentenary by reading from
>> "Nicholas Nickle-bye". Her English was excellent, I may say: so is
>> this pronunciation normal in those parts?
>
>Interesting. Lullaby, passerby, whereby -- the form does exist.
--

Robin Bignall
(BrE)
Herts, England

[LFS]

I have heard salsify so pronounced but never broccoli. How did Cubby say it?

--
Laura
(emulate St. George for email)

[Mark Brader]

Mike Lyle:

> > I've once or twice boggled gently on hearing a Brit speaker pronounce
> > "broccoli" with a "bite" vowel at the end, but today on a new foodie
> > programme with the irritating (not, I think, his fault) Jay Rayner
> > somebody did it to "salsify".

Donna Richoux:

> Merriam Webster lists two pronunciations, basically SAL-si-fee and
> sal-si-FYE. The second is the way I know it -- like "satisfy".

Did you mean "SAL-si-fye", then? I don't imagine you say "sat-is-FYE".

I've never heard the word pronounced at all, but if I unexpectedly had
to say it, I'd guess SOLL-si-fee on the assumption of "sal" as in "salt".
--
Mark Brader | "Don't be silly. A pedant is something you hang
Toronto | round your neck, or else you hang them by the neck."
m...@vex.net | --Rob Bannister

[James Silverton]

I'd pronounce "salsify" that way too but I don't particularly like it.

--
Jim Silverton

Extraneous "not" in Reply To.

[Peter Moylan]

Mike Lyle wrote:
> I've once or twice boggled gently on hearing a Brit speaker pronounce
> "broccoli" with a "bite" vowel at the end,

Then you'd be shocked by the way that Newcastle (NSW) people say "bindii".

--
Peter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org
For an e-mail address, see my web page.

[Donna Richoux]

Mark Brader <m...@vex.net> wrote:

> Mike Lyle:
> > > I've once or twice boggled gently on hearing a Brit speaker pronounce
> > > "broccoli" with a "bite" vowel at the end, but today on a new foodie
> > > programme with the irritating (not, I think, his fault) Jay Rayner
> > > somebody did it to "salsify".
>
> Donna Richoux:
> > Merriam Webster lists two pronunciations, basically SAL-si-fee and
> > sal-si-FYE. The second is the way I know it -- like "satisfy".
>
> Did you mean "SAL-si-fye", then? I don't imagine you say "sat-is-FYE".

Let's try "SAL-si-FYE" then. First and third stress.

[Andrew B]

On 07/02/2012 22:38, LFS wrote:
> On 07/02/2012 18:49, Mike Lyle wrote:
>> I've once or twice boggled gently on hearing a Brit speaker pronounce
>> "broccoli" with a "bite" vowel at the end, but today on a new foodie
>> programme with the irritating (not, I think, his fault) Jay Rayner
>> somebody did it to "salsify". Then, on PM, we heard an Indian lady
>> announce her intention to mark Dickens's bicentenary by reading from
>> "Nicholas Nickle-bye". Her English was excellent, I may say: so is
>> this pronunciation normal in those parts?
>>
>
> I have heard salsify so pronounced but never broccoli.

See the Monty Python undertaker/cannibalism sketch at
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWWg5shNWR4, at about 1:25. (Which I
remember because it's the only time I've ever heard it pronounced in
this way).

[annily]

On 08.02.12 09:44, Peter Moylan wrote:
> Mike Lyle wrote:
>> I've once or twice boggled gently on hearing a Brit speaker pronounce
>> "broccoli" with a "bite" vowel at the end,
>
> Then you'd be shocked by the way that Newcastle (NSW) people say "bindii".
>

I'd never seen that before. It appears to be an alternative spelling of
"bindi-eye". Is that the one you mean?

[J. J. Lodder]

Donna Richoux <tr...@euronet.nl> wrote:

> Mike Lyle <mike_l...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > I've once or twice boggled gently on hearing a Brit speaker pronounce
> > "broccoli" with a "bite" vowel at the end, but today on a new foodie
> > programme with the irritating (not, I think, his fault) Jay Rayner
> > somebody did it to "salsify".
>
> Merriam Webster lists two pronunciations, basically SAL-si-fee and
> sal-si-FYE. The second is the way I know it -- like "satisfy".
>
> I would assume it's a rare word so people have trouble forming opinions.
> I never saw or ate it until I came to the Netherlands and found it as
> "schorsenier".

Nice example of hyper-correctness.
It is Dutch: 'schorseneer'
(plural schorseneren)

Pronounced as rhyming with 'op en neer'.

Jan

[Leslie Danks]

Is that Nelsonian or has it got something to do with "bhajii"?

--
Les
(BrE)

[John Holmes]

According to wikipedia,
Bindii, bindi, bindyi or bindi-eye may refer to the following plant species:
Soliva sessilis, also known as lawnweed, common soliva, and field burrweed
Tribulus terrestris, also known as puncturevine, caltrop, cathead, goathead,
and burra gokharu.

Australian Oxford has it under the head "bindi-eye"
(also bindy-eye and formerly with much variety, as bindei, bindii)
Aust. any of several plants bearing barbed fruits, esp. herbs of the genus
Calotis, the fruit of these plants
[origin: 20th c: perhaps from an aboriginal language]

I think I've seen bindi-eye and bindii with about equal frequency.
--
Regards
John
for mail: my initials plus a u e
at tpg dot com dot au

[CT]

Donna Richoux wrote:

> Mark Brader <m...@vex.net> wrote:
>
> >
> > Did you mean "SAL-si-fye", then? I don't imagine you say
> > "sat-is-FYE".
>
> Let's try "SAL-si-FYE" then. First and third stress.

Let's call the whole thing off.

--
Chris

[Django Cat]

Peter Duncanson (BrE) wrote:

> On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 18:49:50 +0000, Mike Lyle
> <mike_l...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > I've once or twice boggled gently on hearing a Brit speaker
> > pronounce "broccoli" with a "bite" vowel at the end,
>
> Rhyming with "octopi"?
>

In the TV programme 'Saturday Kitchen' the weekly main guest is asked
to chose their favorite food and a food they really dislike - 'food
heaven' or 'food hell'. Other guests and viewers chose which one the
chef presenter will cook for the guest at the end of the show.

As someone who eats most things I've wondered what my food hell would
be, but now I know:

Octopi with broccoli. Or maybe octopus with broccolus.

DC


--

[the Omrud]

I rarely have time to watch, but I reckon that is one of the most
good-natured programmes on the entire telly box.

I don't think I have a food hell. I will eat just about anything and
have done so when in Japan. Oh, yes, there it is. Natto. Truly
disgusting. But it's not likely to be offered on Saturday Kitchen.

--
David

[the Omrud]

On 07/02/2012 18:49, Mike Lyle wrote:

I have been looking at this subject for some time and wondering in what
way the switch "-y" modifies the command "mystifying".

--
David

[Django Cat]

I'll even eat sprouts if it's absolutely necessary.

DC

--

[LFS]

FSVO "absolutely necessary". I would need to be hungrier than I have
ever felt in my life and can hardly imagine.

[Dr Nick]

What is it with sprouts? I had one this Christmas in a spirit of
enquiry, and to see if my tastes had changed and it was far, far, worse
than I'd remembered. Really revolting. About the only thing I've tried
that I cannot imagine how people can possibly like (rather than "I don't
like this but I'm sure others do").
--
Online waterways route planner | http://canalplan.eu
Plan trips, see photos, check facilities | http://canalplan.org.uk

[Mike Lyle]

On Tue, 7 Feb 2012 12:21:04 -0800 (PST), Jerry Friedman
<jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Feb 7, 1:01 pm, t...@euronet.nl (Donna Richoux) wrote:
>> Mike Lyle <mike_lyle...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> > I've once or twice boggled gently on hearing a Brit speaker pronounce
>> > "broccoli" with a "bite" vowel at the end, but today on a new foodie
>> > programme with the irritating (not, I think, his fault) Jay Rayner
>> > somebody did it to "salsify".
>>
>> Merriam Webster lists two pronunciations, basically SAL-si-fee and
>> sal-si-FYE. The second is the way I know it -- like "satisfy".
>
>I've heard both, but say "salsifee".
>
>> I would assume it's a rare word so people have trouble forming opinions.
>> I never saw or ate it until I came to the Netherlands and found it as
>> "schorsenier".
>
>According to rumor, the vegetable is trendy, so we may be hearing the
>name more. I hope to eat it someday.

It is getting mentioned more these days. Unlike books, vegetables are
rarely unjustly forgotten; but one never knows. I gather they make you
blow off like Jerusalem fartichokes.

>
>The Dutch Wikipedia says the vegetable called just plain salsify in
>English is "De paarse morgenster of boksbaard (/Tragopogon
>porrifolius/), ook wel haverwortel, armeluisasperges, witte
>schorseneren, oesterplant, boksbaard en keukenmeidenverdriet
>genoemd..." Just plain "schorseneren" is the very similar and closely
>related called scorzonera or black salsify in English, /Scorzonera
>hispanica/. So their schorseneren can be our black salsify and our
>salsify can be their white scorzonera.
>
>Poor man's asparagus? Oatroot? They probably didn't need to call it
>"goatsbeard" twice.
>
>http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paarse_morgenster

The Greek generic name _Tragopogon_ means "goatsbeard", and applies to
both _porrifolius_ and _pratensis_. _Mertensia_ is what's generally
(fvsvo "generally") called "oyster-plant" in English. I've never
tasted that, either.

So many things get called something like "x asparagus" or described as
"like asparagus"; it's usually nonsense. But I hope to taste "Bath
asparagus" one day, though I'll have to wait for my Stars of Bethlehem
(_Ornithogalum pyrenaicum_) to get very crowded before I'll actually
eat any of them.

--
Mike.

[Mike Lyle]

On Wed, 08 Feb 2012 13:43:23 +0000, the Omrud <usenet...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Sorry: should have put it in quotation marks, or commented it out, or
something.

--
Mike.

[Mike Lyle]

One day I thought to myself, "You should realise that you're grown up
now, and don't have to eat sprouts if you don't want to." So I
stopped, and there was great rejoicing in my bosom, and stuff like
that. But a few years later, I told myself I really ought to try
again, because they're good for me. Reasonable if parboiled, then
tossed in butter for a couple of minutes and topped with grated
nutmeg. But amazingly, actually rather good finely shredded and eaten
raw with a dressing of orange juice.

Seed catalogues say they've been breeding better-tasting sprouts. We
shall see.

Saturday Kitchen always softens the blow with Food Hell: last week
somebody said he hated freshwater fish, but instead of making a real
and interesting effort with pike or carp, they gave him a rainbow
trout, which is about as unlike any European river fish as you can
get.

The chefs are prejudiced against sherry, too: hardly the right
attitude to encourage a broadening of our food culture, and ignorant
into the bargain. Twice one of the wine experts has recommended a fino
or manzanilla, and the chefs have just been all, like, "OMFG! Yuk! My
Grandma's at Christmas!"

--
Mike.

[John Varela]

On Wed, 8 Feb 2012 13:41:48 UTC, the Omrud <usenet...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> I don't think I have a food hell. I will eat just about anything and
> have done so when in Japan. Oh, yes, there it is. Natto. Truly
> disgusting. But it's not likely to be offered on Saturday Kitchen.

I have heard bad things about lutefisk. Never so much as seen it
myself.

--
John Varela

[John Varela]

On Wed, 8 Feb 2012 16:00:20 UTC, "Django Cat" <nota...@address.com>
wrote:

> I'll even eat sprouts if it's absolutely necessary.

I love sprouts, if they are fresh. Even as a child I liked sprouts.

--
John Varela

[John Varela]

On Tue, 7 Feb 2012 23:41:29 UTC, tr...@euronet.nl (Donna Richoux)
wrote:

It's normal in AmE to stress alternate syllables. I think not so in
BrE or they wouldn't say things like "la-BOR-@-try".

--
John Varela

[Peter Moylan]

I'm puzzled by all this reaction against sprouts. When properly cooked,
they're delicious. It's true that I hated them as a child, but I now
know that that's because my mother believed in boiling the guts out of
them. Some day you should try steaming them so lightly that they're
almost raw. (They're supposed to feel crunchy as you bite through them.)
Lovely.

It's important to buy them when they're small, though, and even then to
trim the outer leaves to reduce them to about half the original size.
(You know you're done when the leaves are getting whitish. The dark
green leaves are usually too soft and too bitter.) You might need to buy
them from a market garden rather than from a supermarket, because -- at
least in Australia -- the supermarkets try to sell them so large that
they could be used for golf balls. There must be a lot of supermarket
vegetables that end up in the compost heap because they're inedible.

So far, I haven't found any way to make tofu edible.

[Peter Moylan]

I've heard it pronounced as "bindi-eye" (but not until I came to live in
NSW). Now I see that that's considered to be one of the accepted spellings.

[John Varela]

The pronunciation or the vegetable?

--
John Varela

[Robert Bannister]

I had to really think about that before I realise you probably didn't
mean bean sprouts, which would be the default meaning for me. Brussels,
on the other hand, is the only member of the cabbage family I truly like
(as opposed to 'will eat if it's on my plate').

[the Omrud]

Oh. Sprouts are delicious, provided they've not been boiled for several
hours.

--
David

[annily]

On 08.02.12 21:28, John Holmes wrote:
> annily wrote:
>> On 08.02.12 09:44, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>> Mike Lyle wrote:
>>>> I've once or twice boggled gently on hearing a Brit speaker
>>>> pronounce "broccoli" with a "bite" vowel at the end,
>>>
>>> Then you'd be shocked by the way that Newcastle (NSW) people say
>>> "bindii".
>> I'd never seen that before. It appears to be an alternative spelling
>> of "bindi-eye". Is that the one you mean?
>
> According to wikipedia,
> Bindii, bindi, bindyi or bindi-eye may refer to the following plant
> species:
> Soliva sessilis, also known as lawnweed, common soliva, and field burrweed
> Tribulus terrestris, also known as puncturevine, caltrop, cathead,
> goathead, and burra gokharu.
>
> Australian Oxford has it under the head "bindi-eye"
> (also bindy-eye and formerly with much variety, as bindei, bindii)
> Aust. any of several plants bearing barbed fruits, esp. herbs of the
> genus Calotis, the fruit of these plants
> [origin: 20th c: perhaps from an aboriginal language]
>

So does Macquarie (4th edition) although an earlier edition (which I
have on CD and checked initially) only has "bindi" as an alternative.

[annily]

On 09.02.12 09:22, Peter Moylan wrote:
> annily wrote:
>> On 08.02.12 09:44, Peter Moylan wrote:
>>> Mike Lyle wrote:
>>>> I've once or twice boggled gently on hearing a Brit speaker pronounce
>>>> "broccoli" with a "bite" vowel at the end,
>>>
>>> Then you'd be shocked by the way that Newcastle (NSW) people say
>>> "bindii".
>>>
>> I'd never seen that before. It appears to be an alternative spelling of
>> "bindi-eye". Is that the one you mean?
>
> I've heard it pronounced as "bindi-eye" (but not until I came to live in
> NSW). Now I see that that's considered to be one of the accepted spellings.
>

Yes, and apparently common enough in Australia for it to be listed under
that headword in Macquarie.

[John Holmes]

Peter Moylan wrote:

> Dr Nick wrote:
>>
>> What is it with sprouts? I had one this Christmas in a spirit of
>> enquiry, and to see if my tastes had changed and it was far, far,
>> worse than I'd remembered. Really revolting. About the only thing
>> I've tried that I cannot imagine how people can possibly like
>> (rather than "I don't like this but I'm sure others do").
>
> I'm puzzled by all this reaction against sprouts. When properly
> cooked, they're delicious. It's true that I hated them as a child,
> but I now know that that's because my mother believed in boiling the
> guts out of them. Some day you should try steaming them so lightly
> that they're almost raw. (They're supposed to feel crunchy as you
> bite through them.) Lovely.

Especially with a squeeze of lemon juice.

> It's important to buy them when they're small, though, and even then
> to trim the outer leaves to reduce them to about half the original
> size. (You know you're done when the leaves are getting whitish. The
> dark green leaves are usually too soft and too bitter.) You might
> need to buy them from a market garden rather than from a supermarket,
> because -- at least in Australia -- the supermarkets try to sell them
> so large that they could be used for golf balls. There must be a lot
> of supermarket vegetables that end up in the compost heap because
> they're inedible.

They develop the best flavour when there has been frosty weather. I suspect
the supermarkets contract their supplies from frost-free areas where the
sprouts grow more prolifically but do not reach their full flavour
potential.

[R H Draney]

Peter Moylan filted:

>
>So far, I haven't found any way to make tofu edible.

Batter it, deep-fry it, and serve it on a stick...bacon-wrap optional....r


--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.

[Django Cat]

James Martin may have mentioned he's from Yorkshire once, or maybe I
just imagined that.

DC

--

[Django Cat]

Peter Moylan wrote:

> It's important to buy them when they're small, though, and even then
> to trim the outer leaves to reduce them to about half the original
> size. (You know you're done when the leaves are getting whitish. The
> dark green leaves are usually too soft and too bitter.) You might
> need to buy them from a market garden rather than from a supermarket,
> because -- at least in Australia -- the supermarkets try to sell them
> so large that they could be used for golf balls.

Best idea so far....

DC

--

[CT]

Django Cat wrote:

> James Martin may have mentioned he's from Yorkshire once, or maybe I
> just imagined that.

Once?! He mentions it all the time!

--
Chris

[Django Cat]

R H Draney wrote:

> Peter Moylan filted:
> >
> > So far, I haven't found any way to make tofu edible.
>

> Batter it, deep-fry it, serve it on a stick...

Throw it in the bin.

(Pace Dr Johnson on potatoes, I think, but I can't find the quotation).

DC

--

[Django Cat]

Indeed. I forgot to put the sarcasm braces in.

DC

--

[CT]

Django Cat wrote:

> Indeed. I forgot to put the sarcasm braces in.

That did occur to me about 3 nanoseconds after I'd hit "send".

--
Chris

[LFS]

Edward Lear's recipe for Amblongus Pie:

Take 4 pounds (say 4 1/2 pounds) of fresh Amblongusses, and put them in
a small pipkin.

Cover them with water and boil them for 8 hours incessantly, after which
add 2 pints of new milk, and proceed to boil for 4 hours more.

When you have ascertained that the Amblongusses are quite soft, take
them out and place them in a wide pan, taking care to shake them well
previously.

Grate some nutmeg over the surface, and cover them carefully with
powdered gingerbread, curry-powder, and a sufficient quantity of Cayenne
pepper.

Remove the pan into the next room, and place it on the floor. Bring it
back again, and let it simmer for three-quarters of an hour. Shake the
pan violently till all the Amblongusses have become a pale purple colour.

Then, having prepared a paste, insert the whole carefully, adding at the
same time a small pigeon, 2 slices of beef, 4 cauliflowers, and any
number of oysters.

Watch patiently till the crust begins to rise, and add a pinch of salt
from time to time.

Serve up in a clean dish, and throw the whole out of the window as fast
as possible.

[Peter Moylan]

R H Draney wrote:
> Peter Moylan filted:
>> So far, I haven't found any way to make tofu edible.
>
> Batter it, deep-fry it, and serve it on a stick...bacon-wrap optional....r

Vegetarian bacon, I presume.

[Peter Moylan]

That sounds a little like the standard way of cooking emu:

Remove beak and feathers, cut the meat into manageable pieces, and put
it into a very large pot of boiling water. Add several pairs of old boots.

Simmer for two weeks, or until the boots are tender.

Drain the contents and separate. Throw out the emu and eat the boots.

[Django Cat]

Yes, that's basically the same gag, Laura. The version I remember as
being Johnson ran something like:

'the potato is best scrubbed, peeled, boiled, mashed, served on a
plate, and then thrown away as being of no value to man or beast.'

He didn't like porridge, either.

DC

--

[Django Cat]

'How would you like your steak, Sir?'
'Wipe its ass and take off the horns'.

DC

--

[James Silverton]

It's true that Brussels Sprouts (not bean sprouts as I first thought)
are better after a frost. My supermarket even displays them in boxes
with craked ice.

--
Jim Silverton

Extraneous "not" in Reply To.

[James Silverton]

On 2/9/2012 4:31 AM, R H Draney wrote:
> Peter Moylan filted:
>>
>> So far, I haven't found any way to make tofu edible.
>
> Batter it, deep-fry it, and serve it on a stick...bacon-wrap optional....r
>
>

Freeze dry it. The Japanese have been doing this for centuries in colder
regions of the country and freezing tofu for about 3-4 days and then
defrosting in the refrigerator does much the same thing. The texture is
much improved and the tofu soaks up sauces much more readily.

[CT]

Django Cat wrote:

> 'How would you like your steak, Sir?'

"So a good vet could get it back on its feet again"

--
Chris

[Jerry Friedman]

On Feb 8, 3:25 pm, Mike Lyle <mike_lyle...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On Wed, 08 Feb 2012 20:19:02 +0000, Dr Nick

> <3-nos...@temporary-address.org.uk> wrote:
...

> >What is it with sprouts?  I had one this Christmas in a spirit of
> >enquiry, and to see if my tastes had changed and it was far, far, worse
> >than I'd remembered.  Really revolting.  About the only thing I've tried
> >that I cannot imagine how people can possibly like (rather than "I don't
> >like this but I'm sure others do").

Mm. Brussels sprouts. (I assume that's what you're talking about.
As we all know, AmE "sprouts" are from alfalfa, mung beans, etc.)

> One day I thought to myself, "You should realise that you're grown up
> now, and don't have to eat sprouts if you don't want to." So I
> stopped, and there was great rejoicing in my bosom, and stuff like
> that. But a few years later, I told myself I really ought to try
> again, because they're good for me. Reasonable if parboiled, then
> tossed in butter for a couple of minutes and topped with grated
> nutmeg. But amazingly, actually rather good finely shredded and eaten
> raw with a dressing of orange juice.
>
> Seed catalogues say they've been breeding better-tasting sprouts. We
> shall see.

Probably ruining them by taking out flavor and adding sugar.

--
Jerry Friedman

[R H Draney]

James Silverton filted:

In which respect (among so many others) it is exactly like styrofoam....r

[James Silverton]

I beg leave to doubt if you've ever tried it. It's quite popular in
Japan. I don't like regular tofu much myself as, despite what
connoisseurs say, I've never detected any taste.

[Nick Spalding]

James Silverton wrote, in <jh15gs$nvf$1...@dont-email.me>
on Thu, 09 Feb 2012 14:07:17 -0500:

Talking of lack of taste, what the hell is the point of mozzarella?
--
Nick Spalding
BrE/IrE

[Peter Moylan]

Mozzarella is not my favourite cheese, but I certainly wouldn't accuse
it of having no taste.

Recently I accidentally bought too large a lump, and we had great
trouble finding any use for it other than grating it and sprinkling it
over other food. It was far too strong-tasting to be used for something
like sandwiches.

[Mike Lyle]

Strange, though, that Brussels sprouts should taste so unlike their
delicious conspecific cabbage varieties.

--
Mike.

[Mike Lyle]

You let your mozarella get dry enough to be grated: that probably
explains the taste explosion. But I think it's pretty well always used
as a garnish for other food - especially pizza, of course.

--
Mike.

[Mike Lyle]

On Thu, 09 Feb 2012 11:06:01 +1030, annily <ann...@annily.invalid>
wrote:

"Bindee-eye" has got to be the pronunciation. Maybe we should call it
"vegetable caltrop". I'm not upset by an "eye" sound at the end of
Anglicised Latin plurals, such as "radii", either. But "broccol-eye"
is in the same league as "spaghett-eye". The "-ify" termination when
pronounced with an "eye" feels more appropriate to the "xxx-ficio"
family: we don't often speak of "salsification" (though I would, for a
smile).

--
Mike.

[annily]

Agreed. I'm still unsure what Peter M. (I think) meant as to how
Novocastrians (Aussie version presumably) pronounced it.

Side note: My Macquarie CD only mentions the New South Wales version in
its definition of "Novocastrian", while my OED CD only mentions the
British version.

[R H Draney]

Mike Lyle filted:

Try it on popcorn....r

[the Omrud]

On 09/02/2012 21:32, Nick Spalding wrote:

> Talking of lack of taste, what the hell is the point of mozzarella?

Proper mozzarella is delicious. We have eaten it in Pompeii, at the
foot of the hills where the real stuff is produced. A sliced mozzarella
ball, slices of tomato, olive oil. Delicious, except that turned out to
be the starter and we were rather overpowered by the rest of the lunch.

Cheap mozzarella is indeed tasteless when eaten raw, although it
acquires a certain something when cooked and stringy.

--
David

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On 2012-02-08 21:19:02 +0100, Dr Nick <3-no...@temporary-address.org.uk> said:

> LFS <la...@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> writes:
>
>> On 08/02/2012 16:00, Django Cat wrote:
>>> the Omrud wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 08/02/2012 12:52, Django Cat wrote:
>>>>> Peter Duncanson (BrE) wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 18:49:50 +0000, Mike Lyle

>>>>>> <mike_l...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've once or twice boggled gently on hearing a Brit speaker
>>>>>>> pronounce "broccoli" with a "bite" vowel at the end,
>>>>>>

>>>>>> Rhyming with "octopi"?
>>>>>
>>>>> In the TV programme 'Saturday Kitchen' the weekly main guest is
>>>>> asked to chose their favorite food and a food they really dislike -
>>>>> 'food heaven' or 'food hell'. Other guests and viewers chose which
>>>>> one the chef presenter will cook for the guest at the end of the
>>>>> show.
>>>>>
>>>>> As someone who eats most things I've wondered what my food hell
>>>>> would be, but now I know:
>>>>>
>>>>> Octopi with broccoli. Or maybe octopus with broccolus.
>>>>
>>>> I rarely have time to watch, but I reckon that is one of the most
>>>> good-natured programmes on the entire telly box.
>>>>
>>>> I don't think I have a food hell. I will eat just about anything and
>>>> have done so when in Japan. Oh, yes, there it is. Natto. Truly
>>>> disgusting. But it's not likely to be offered on Saturday Kitchen.
>>>
>>> I'll even eat sprouts if it's absolutely necessary.
>>>
>>
>> FSVO "absolutely necessary". I would need to be hungrier than I have
>> ever felt in my life and can hardly imagine.
>

> What is it with sprouts? I had one this Christmas in a spirit of
> enquiry, and to see if my tastes had changed and it was far, far, worse
> than I'd remembered. Really revolting. About the only thing I've tried
> that I cannot imagine how people can possibly like (rather than "I don't
> like this but I'm sure others do").

We've had Brussels sprouts several times this winter. Delicious!


--
athel

[LFS]

On 10/02/2012 09:06, the Omrud wrote:
> On 09/02/2012 21:32, Nick Spalding wrote:
>
>> Talking of lack of taste, what the hell is the point of mozzarella?
>
> Proper mozzarella is delicious. We have eaten it in Pompeii, at the foot
> of the hills where the real stuff is produced. A sliced mozzarella ball,
> slices of tomato, olive oil. Delicious, except that turned out to be the
> starter and we were rather overpowered by the rest of the lunch.

That's my second favourite meal.

>
> Cheap mozzarella is indeed tasteless when eaten raw, although it
> acquires a certain something when cooked and stringy.
>

The buffalo mozzarella available in supermarkets here is not too bad if
you're lavish with the olive oil, black pepper and basil leaves. But the
stuff sold in blocks which is labelled mozzarella and looks yellowish is
disgusting.

[Leslie Danks]

Since we're discussing disgusting (you have been warned):

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFldoz08BgU>

--
Les
(BrE)

[Peter Moylan]

Before I came here, I had only ever heard the "bindy" pronunciation;
thus I was led to believe that "bindey-eye" was a Newcastle quirk.
(Newcastle speech does have a few differences from other NSW speech,
although I've now lived here so long that I can no longer pick them out.)

It seems, from the discussion here, that I was wrong, and that the
longer form is found in other parts of Australia.

>
> Side note: My Macquarie CD only mentions the New South Wales version in
> its definition of "Novocastrian", while my OED CD only mentions the
> British version.
>

Here I must admit that I didn't know there was a British version.
Certainly the Novocastrian (NSW) dialect is far removed from the dialect
of Newcastle-on-Tyne. We even pronounce the name of the city differently.

[Mike Lyle]

Ah. I didn't realize you didn't know that, all those years ago when I
called you a "Neo-Geordie", and you replied that, no, the term was
"Novocastrian". When I then replied "Ah were jestin', bonny lad", did
you not recognize the stereotypic N-C expression "bonny lad"?

--
Mike.

[Peter Moylan]

I know what "Geordie" means, but I didn't know about "bonny lad".

This city was given its name, I gather, after coal was discovered here.
In other respects it's hard to see any similarities with the English
Newcastle. I'm not even certain that we'd understand one another's speech.

There must have been a flood of migration between the two places when
coal miners were being imported, because numerous place names around
here are copies of northern England place names. (But we also have a
Cardiff, from a little further afield.) That was a few generations ago,
though. We don't seem to have retained the distinctive language.

[the Omrud]

On 10/02/2012 10:25, LFS wrote:
> On 10/02/2012 09:06, the Omrud wrote:
>> On 09/02/2012 21:32, Nick Spalding wrote:
>>
>>> Talking of lack of taste, what the hell is the point of mozzarella?
>>
>> Proper mozzarella is delicious. We have eaten it in Pompeii, at the foot
>> of the hills where the real stuff is produced. A sliced mozzarella ball,
>> slices of tomato, olive oil. Delicious, except that turned out to be the
>> starter and we were rather overpowered by the rest of the lunch.
>
> That's my second favourite meal.

Go on, somebody has to ask.

--
David

[LFS]

Good smoked salmon with a squeeze of lemon and some freshly ground black
pepper, served with thinly sliced and buttered brown bread. And lots of
champagne. I could eat that for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

[James Silverton]

Add thin sliced cucumber and a sprinkling of dill! A few capers don't do
any harm either.

For variants, I drink Guinness Export Extra and also bagels and cream
cheese can replace the bread.

[the Omrud]

On 11/02/2012 22:45, LFS wrote:
> On 11/02/2012 22:41, the Omrud wrote:
>> On 10/02/2012 10:25, LFS wrote:
>>> On 10/02/2012 09:06, the Omrud wrote:
>>>> On 09/02/2012 21:32, Nick Spalding wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Talking of lack of taste, what the hell is the point of mozzarella?
>>>>
>>>> Proper mozzarella is delicious. We have eaten it in Pompeii, at the
>>>> foot of the hills where the real stuff is produced. A sliced mozzarella
>>>> ball, slices of tomato, olive oil. Delicious, except that turned out to be
>>>> the starter and we were rather overpowered by the rest of the lunch.
>>>
>>> That's my second favourite meal.
>>
>> Go on, somebody has to ask.
>
> Good smoked salmon with a squeeze of lemon and some freshly ground black
> pepper, served with thinly sliced and buttered brown bread.

Well, OK, I could live on that for much of the time.

> And lots of champagne.

I never actually *want* alcohol, although I'll have a drink when it's
polite to do so, or when it's less trouble than saying no. I don't
think we've drunk any alcohol at home for a couple of years or more. It
just doesn't enter our minds to do so.

> I could eat that for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

But where's the Marmite?

--
David

[the Omrud]

On 11/02/2012 22:45, LFS wrote:

> On 11/02/2012 22:41, the Omrud wrote:
>> On 10/02/2012 10:25, LFS wrote:
>>> On 10/02/2012 09:06, the Omrud wrote:
>>>> On 09/02/2012 21:32, Nick Spalding wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Talking of lack of taste, what the hell is the point of mozzarella?
>>>>
>>>> Proper mozzarella is delicious. We have eaten it in Pompeii, at the
>>>> foot of the hills where the real stuff is produced. A sliced mozzarella
>>>> ball, slices of tomato, olive oil. Delicious, except that turned out to be
>>>> the starter and we were rather overpowered by the rest of the lunch.
>>>
>>> That's my second favourite meal.
>>
>> Go on, somebody has to ask.
>
> Good smoked salmon with a squeeze of lemon and some freshly ground black
> pepper, served with thinly sliced and buttered brown bread.

Well, OK, I could live on that for much of the time.

> And lots of champagne.

I never actually *want* alcohol, although I'll have a drink when it's
polite to do so, or when it's less trouble than saying no. I don't
think we've drunk any alcohol at home for a couple of years or more. It
just doesn't enter our minds to do so.

> I could eat that for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

[Robert Bannister]

Hmm, I don't like champagne and have difficulties with cucumber if it's
not lightly pickled. One day, I really must come to America to find out
what proper bagels are like because the hard, chewy things I can buy
here are largely inedible. Cream cheese is OK, but usually tasteless and
therefore better replaced with butter.

Apart from that, I agree with you both except that I also like a touch
of mayo on my smoked salmon. I think I've had it with thinly sliced raw
onion, which wasn't bad either, although I'd think you'd have to be
careful not to overpower the taste.

--
Robert Bannister

[Skitt]

Unlike LFS, I only have one favorite meal.

--
Skitt (SF Bay Area)
http://come.to/skitt

[LFS]

Real bagels are *supposed* to be hard and chewy.

>
> Apart from that, I agree with you both except that I also like a touch
> of mayo on my smoked salmon. I think I've had it with thinly sliced raw
> onion, which wasn't bad either, although I'd think you'd have to be
> careful not to overpower the taste.
>

*Good* smoked salmon needs nothing more than lemon and pepper. There is
a good deal of inferior stuff about these days. Supermarket varieties
are rarely as good as the freshly cut sort although Waitrose do a very
nice one which is apparently "smoked over peat and heather" (which makes
Husband ask whethe Pete and Heather minded. Every time we see it. In
that irritating way that men of a certain age develop.) It's very
expensive so we only get it when it's on offer.

[LFS]

Which is?

[James Silverton]

Both I and many Norwegians would favor dill with smoked salmon. Fresh
dill is best but even dried dill adds a very acceptable flavor.

[LFS]

I agree that dill is good with salmon in general (as are cumcumber and
capers) but not with the smoked salmon I grew up eating (only on special
occasions as it was very expensive). The smoked salmon I have eaten in
Scandinavia and in Alaska has never been quite the same as that from the
east end of London. Even the Scottish sort is slightly different.

[Dr Nick]

Peter Moylan <inv...@peter.pmoylan.org.invalid> writes:

> Dr Nick wrote:
>> LFS <la...@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> writes:
>>
>>> On 08/02/2012 16:00, Django Cat wrote:
>>>> the Omrud wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 08/02/2012 12:52, Django Cat wrote:
>>>>>> Peter Duncanson (BrE) wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 18:49:50 +0000, Mike Lyle

>>>>>>> <mike_l...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've once or twice boggled gently on hearing a Brit speaker
>>>>>>>> pronounce "broccoli" with a "bite" vowel at the end,

>>>>>>> Rhyming with "octopi"?
>>>>>> In the TV programme 'Saturday Kitchen' the weekly main guest is
>>>>>> asked to chose their favorite food and a food they really dislike -
>>>>>> 'food heaven' or 'food hell'. Other guests and viewers chose which
>>>>>> one the chef presenter will cook for the guest at the end of the
>>>>>> show.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As someone who eats most things I've wondered what my food hell
>>>>>> would be, but now I know:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Octopi with broccoli. Or maybe octopus with broccolus.
>>>>> I rarely have time to watch, but I reckon that is one of the most
>>>>> good-natured programmes on the entire telly box.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't think I have a food hell. I will eat just about anything and
>>>>> have done so when in Japan. Oh, yes, there it is. Natto. Truly
>>>>> disgusting. But it's not likely to be offered on Saturday Kitchen.
>>>> I'll even eat sprouts if it's absolutely necessary.
>>>>
>>> FSVO "absolutely necessary". I would need to be hungrier than I have
>>> ever felt in my life and can hardly imagine.
>>
>> What is it with sprouts? I had one this Christmas in a spirit of
>> enquiry, and to see if my tastes had changed and it was far, far, worse
>> than I'd remembered. Really revolting. About the only thing I've tried
>> that I cannot imagine how people can possibly like (rather than "I don't
>> like this but I'm sure others do").
>

> I'm puzzled by all this reaction against sprouts. When properly cooked,
> they're delicious. It's true that I hated them as a child, but I now
> know that that's because my mother believed in boiling the guts out of
> them. Some day you should try steaming them so lightly that they're
> almost raw. (They're supposed to feel crunchy as you bite through them.)
> Lovely.

No, really - I meant what I said. They are - as I said there - one of
the most disgusting things I've tasted. I can only assume there's a
chemical in them that some can taste and others not.

> So far, I haven't found any way to make tofu edible.

Tofu is perfectly edible, but why bother? There's not enough to it to
elict any reaction at all.
--
Online waterways route planner | http://canalplan.eu
Plan trips, see photos, check facilities | http://canalplan.org.uk

[LFS]

I agree. My mum was an excellent cook and she tried all sorts of ways to
make them palatable to me but none worked.

[..]

[Skitt]

LFS wrote:
> Skitt wrote:
>> the Omrud wrote:
>>> LFS wrote:

>>>> the Omrud wrote:
>>>>> Nick Spalding wrote:

>>>>>> Talking of lack of taste, what the hell is the point of mozzarella?
>>>>>
>>>>> Proper mozzarella is delicious. We have eaten it in Pompeii, at the
>>>>> foot
>>>>> of the hills where the real stuff is produced. A sliced mozzarella
>>>>> ball,
>>>>> slices of tomato, olive oil. Delicious, except that turned out to be
>>>>> the
>>>>> starter and we were rather overpowered by the rest of the lunch.
>>>>
>>>> That's my second favourite meal.
>>>
>>> Go on, somebody has to ask.
>>
>> Unlike LFS, I only have one favorite meal.
>
> Which is?
>

Tongue, but that was not the point. It was your missing hyphen that
caused my remark.

[LFS]

You would put "second-favourite"? Looks odd to me.

[Skitt]

Well, "second favorite" looks odd to me, as there can only be one
favorite. The next one is "second-favorite".

[Jerry Friedman]

Standard in America. I'd always hyphenate it, but the CMOS hyphenates
it only before a noun.

http://www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/16/images/ch07_tab01.pdf

--
Jerry Friedman

[Mike Lyle]

On Sat, 11 Feb 2012 22:57:42 +0000, the Omrud <usenet...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Marmite and smoked salmon. Mmmm! Before I forget again, among my minor
Christmas presents was a bar of Marmite chocolate. Not plain
chocolate, either: milk chocolate with Marmite. It was disgusting.

And before I forget this again, too, somebody here suggested Marmite
was pulling a fast one by weakening what's in the ordinary jar, and
selling the good stuff as "extra strong" at a greatly increased price.
I've tried, and it's true.

--
Mike.

[Mike Lyle]

On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 11:19:48 -0800, Skitt <ski...@comcast.net> wrote:

>LFS wrote:
>> Skitt wrote:
>>> LFS wrote:
>>>> Skitt wrote:
>>>>> the Omrud wrote:
>>>>>> LFS wrote:

[...]

>>>>>>> That's my second favourite meal.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Go on, somebody has to ask.
>>>>>
>>>>> Unlike LFS, I only have one favorite meal.
>>>>
>>>> Which is?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Tongue, but that was not the point. It was your missing hyphen that
>>> caused my remark.
>>>
>>
>> You would put "second-favourite"? Looks odd to me.
>>
>
>Well, "second favorite" looks odd to me, as there can only be one
>favorite. The next one is "second-favorite".

OK, let's start with "best", and work up. I write "second-best", so
I'd presumablky use "second-favourite", but it looks a little strange
to me, too. OED gives both, but places the unmarked forms first. I
notice, too, that its only hyphened examples are "quasi-adverbial", as
in "...we come off second-best."

The Oxford Style Guide, based on Hart's Rules, is silent on the
matter. So maybe it's Pondial.

--
Mike.

[the Omrud]

On 12/02/2012 21:10, Mike Lyle wrote:

> And before I forget this again, too, somebody here suggested Marmite
> was pulling a fast one by weakening what's in the ordinary jar, and
> selling the good stuff as "extra strong" at a greatly increased price.
> I've tried, and it's true.

I've not noticed any Extra Strong around here, nor any diminution of the
power of normal Marmite.

--
David

[Skitt]

It's a matter of logic. Yes, I know that language is not always
logical, but "second favorite" is just weird. Quaintly British,
perhaps. ;)

[Peter Duncanson (BrE)]

A gambler in Los Angeles, Richard Bleuze, consisently uses hyphen-free
"second favorite" in discussing betting on horses:
http://bettingthehorsesonline.com/Horse-Betting-Systems/A-Horse-Betting-System-Where-You-Bet-The-Second-Favorite.html

His twitter page:
http://twitter.com/247wagering


--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

[Skitt]

Peter Duncanson (BrE) wrote:

Maybe he's betting that no one will notice.

[Robert Bannister]

If we're really roughing it, I'd go as far as to say that pepper is the
only thing it can't do without. My local fishmonger does a fine smoked
salmon - not sure where they get it from, but it's much nicer than
anything else I can find. Again, however, it does depend on whether it's
freshly sliced or whether they just got some previously sliced stuff
from the cold room.

--
Robert Bannister

[Robert Bannister]

Sigh. I am finding it very difficult to buy pressed ox tongue these
days. The supermarkets have decided that they're not selling enough to
make it worthwhile, so they haven't got it and even the gourmet good
shops are wary of carrying it. Unfortunately, too many people have weird
attitudes about tongue (and liver and kidney and heart...).

--
Robert Bannister

[Peter Brooks]

That is unfortunate, we don't have that problem here. Perhaps you
should look up your nearest slaughter-house - though you'd have to
cook it a lot longer, supermarket tongue is usually parboiled.

Heart can be a bit tough, badly prepared kidneys can be ammoniacal,
and tongue is a very bad idea if you're prone to gout - it's packed
with purines. So there are some rational reasons for not being
entirely keen on offal.

[Jerry Friedman]

On Feb 12, 6:17 pm, Robert Bannister <robb...@bigpond.com> wrote:
...

> Sigh. I am finding it very difficult to buy pressed ox tongue these
> days.

...

I find it difficult to buy any kind of beef tongue (I don't think I've
had the pressed kind), but my favorite taco stand in Santa Fe
sometimes has delicious tongue tacos. Just in case you're ever in New
Mexico.

--
Jerry Friedman

[David Dyer-Bennet]

Those sound more real than the bagels you can get in most of the USA.
Bruegers used to make real bagels, but they've been straying more and
more into "bread doughnut" territory (softer and less crusty). Proper
bagels are in fact chewy and hard-crusted.

> Apart from that, I agree with you both except that I also like a touch
> of mayo on my smoked salmon. I think I've had it with thinly sliced
> raw onion, which wasn't bad either, although I'd think you'd have to
> be careful not to overpower the taste.

The onion is good. Red onion is traditional (and is milder). Mayo is a
personal hate of my own, so none for me thanks.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, dd...@dd-b.net; http://dd-b.net/
Snapshots: http://dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/
Photos: http://dd-b.net/photography/gallery/
Dragaera: http://dragaera.info

[David Dyer-Bennet]

LFS <la...@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> writes:

> It's very expensive so we only get it when it's on offer.

Now that's a usage that startles me. "On offer" sounds like "for sale"
to me. In context you pretty clearly mean what we'd call "on sale",
i.e. offered for a lower than normal price. (Yes, I'm noticing how our
different words are tending to get used in similar ways.)

[Peter Brooks]

On Feb 13, 7:34 pm, David Dyer-Bennet <d...@dd-b.net> wrote:
> LFS <la...@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> writes:
> > It's very expensive so we only get it when it's on offer.
>
> Now that's a usage that startles me.  "On offer" sounds like "for sale"
> to me.  In context you pretty clearly mean what we'd call "on sale",
> i.e. offered for a lower than normal price.  (Yes, I'm noticing how our
> different words are tending to get used in similar ways.)
>

It's one way of abbreviating 'on special offer' - I'm more used to it
being abbreviated to 'on special', which isn't ambiguous. As you say
'on offer' simply means available for sale, with no implication as to
price.

[David Dyer-Bennet]

Thanks. "On special offer" isn't American, but makes perfect sense (and
I was already familiar with "on offer"), and "special" seems to be used
somewhta the same way in both AmE and BrE in this case.

[Skitt]

Jerry Friedman wrote:

> Robert Bannister wrote:

>> Sigh. I am finding it very difficult to buy pressed ox tongue these
>> days.
>

> I find it difficult to buy any kind of beef tongue (I don't think I've
> had the pressed kind), but my favorite taco stand in Santa Fe
> sometimes has delicious tongue tacos. Just in case you're ever in New
> Mexico.

We can buy tongue tacos a few blocks from our house at the Tacos Uruapan
restaurant. It started out as a taco truck on a vacant lot ...

http://www.tacosuruapan.net/index.htm