"full of beans"
Adam Funk
--
And remember, while you're out there risking your life and limb
through shot and shell, we'll be in be in here thinking what a
sucker you are. [Rufus T. Firefly]
HVS
> http://dilbert.com/fast/2009-05-27/
>
Yes, very interesting. My usage for "full of beans" is fairly
positive -- enthusaistic, bordering on hyperactive/full of piss and
vinegar -- rather than how Alice is using it.
--
Cheers, Harvey
CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed
Leslie Danks
> On 27 May 2009, Adam Funk wrote
>
>> http://dilbert.com/fast/2009-05-27/
>>
> Yes, very interesting. My usage for "full of beans" is fairly
> positive -- enthusaistic, bordering on hyperactive/full of piss and
> vinegar -- rather than how Alice is using it.
Mine too.
--
Les (BrE)
Jeffrey Turner
> On 27 May 2009, Adam Funk wrote
>
>> http://dilbert.com/fast/2009-05-27/
>>
> Yes, very interesting. My usage for "full of beans" is fairly
> positive -- enthusaistic, bordering on hyperactive/full of piss and
> vinegar -- rather than how Alice is using it.
He's full of something which is unprintable in a family newspaper, so
beans has been chosen to substitute.
--Jeff
--
The comfort of the wealthy has always
depended upon an abundant supply of
the poor. --Voltaire
HVS
> HVS wrote:
>> On 27 May 2009, Adam Funk wrote
>>
>>> http://dilbert.com/fast/2009-05-27/
>>>
>> Yes, very interesting. My usage for "full of beans" is fairly
>> positive -- enthusaistic, bordering on hyperactive/full of piss
>> and vinegar -- rather than how Alice is using it.
>
> He's full of something which is unprintable in a family
> newspaper, so beans has been chosen to substitute.
Well, yes -- but "full of beans" seems an odd choice as that's a set
phrase that has a specific, different meaning.
Evan Kirshenbaum
> HVS wrote:
>> On 27 May 2009, Adam Funk wrote
>>
>>> http://dilbert.com/fast/2009-05-27/
>>>
>> Yes, very interesting. My usage for "full of beans" is fairly
>> positive -- enthusaistic, bordering on hyperactive/full of piss and
>> vinegar -- rather than how Alice is using it.
>
> He's full of something which is unprintable in a family newspaper, so
> beans has been chosen to substitute.
But in this case, the substitution is necessary for the joke.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |Giving money and power to government
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |is like giving whiskey and car keys
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |to teenage boys.
| P.J. O'Rourke
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com
(650)857-7572
Pat Durkin
news:Xns9C18A7BE...@news.albasani.net
>
>> HVS wrote:
>>> On 27 May 2009, Adam Funk wrote
>>>
>>>> http://dilbert.com/fast/2009-05-27/
>>>>
>>> Yes, very interesting. My usage for "full of beans" is fairly
>>> positive -- enthusaistic, bordering on hyperactive/full of piss
>>> and vinegar -- rather than how Alice is using it.
>>
>> He's full of something which is unprintable in a family
>> newspaper, so beans has been chosen to substitute.
>
> Well, yes -- but "full of beans" seems an odd choice as that's a set
> phrase that has a specific, different meaning.
Didn't we discuss this very "set phrase" about a year ago?
I have heard it used in both senses.
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
wrote:
More recently: 17 Dec 2008.
On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 17:49:35 +0000, LFS
<la...@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote:
>Chuck Riggs wrote:
>> On Tue, 16 Dec 2008 22:04:05 -0500, John Varela
<OLDl...@verizon.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 16 Dec 2008 16:55:41 -0500, LFS wrote
>>> (in article <6qqmeuF...@mid.individual.net>):
>>>
>>>> I have to brush my teeth in cold water, the colder the better.
>>> A dentist pointed out to me that the mouth is a wet place and
there is
>>> no reason to wet the toothbrush at all. So all of you Greens
out there
>>> can help save the planet by no longer wetting your toothbrushes.
>>
>> I think that dentist is full of beans.
>
>"Full of beans" in BrE means very lively.
The discussion continued:
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/alt.usage.english/msg/df4cb64e210b492c
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Skitt
> HVS wrote:
>> Adam Funk wrote
>>> http://dilbert.com/fast/2009-05-27/
>>>
>> Yes, very interesting. My usage for "full of beans" is fairly
>> positive -- enthusaistic, bordering on hyperactive/full of piss and
>> vinegar -- rather than how Alice is using it.
>
> Mine too.
It's a BrE thing. In AmE, "full of beans" = "full of shit" = lying.
--
Skitt (AmE)
tinwhistler
The Brits, based on my experience, do not think AmE is worth a hill of
beans, and that Americans generally do not know beans. Umberto Eco,
asked in the year 2000 as to the most important innovation of the last
thousand years, replied that the cultivation of beans should be so
considered.
--
Aloha ~~~ Ozzie Maland ~~~ San Diego
Hatunen
wrote:
I've been an American for a long time and I have never heard it
used in that sense.
Per http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/full%20of%20beans :
" 10.full of beans, Informal.
"a.energetic; vigorously active; vital: He is still full of beans
at 95.
b.stupid; erroneous; misinformed."
I've only heard it in sense (a). Sense (b) is certainly does not
mean "full of shit" or that one is lying.
That site also has:
"Idioms & Phrases
"full of beans
"1. Lively, energetic, in high spirits, as in 'The children were
full of beans today, looking forward to their field trip'. This
expression has no valid explanation. [c. 1840]"
--
************* DAVE HATUNEN (hat...@cox.net) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
Skitt
See: http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/bean
full of hot air and full of beans; full of bull; full of it; full of prunes
Fig. full of nonsense; talking nonsense. Oh, shut up, Mary. You're full of
hot air. Don't pay any attention to Bill. He's full of beans. My English
professor is full of bull. You're full of it.
--
Skitt (AmE)
Evan Kirshenbaum
> The Brits, based on my experience, do not think AmE is worth a hill of
> beans, and that Americans generally do not know beans. Umberto Eco,
> asked in the year 2000 as to the most important innovation of the last
> thousand years, replied that the cultivation of beans should be so
> considered.
I would have thought that beans have been cultivated for considerably
longer than that, in both the Old and New Worlds.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |To express oneself
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |In seventeen syllables
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |Is very diffic
| Tony Finch
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com
(650)857-7572
R H Draney
>
>tinwhistler <ozzie...@post.harvard.edu> writes:
>
>> The Brits, based on my experience, do not think AmE is worth a hill of
>> beans, and that Americans generally do not know beans. Umberto Eco,
>> asked in the year 2000 as to the most important innovation of the last
>> thousand years, replied that the cultivation of beans should be so
>> considered.
>
>I would have thought that beans have been cultivated for considerably
>longer than that, in both the Old and New Worlds.
That's the initial impression, but remember, the Pythagoreans reviled them, so
maybe they weren't all that popular back then....r
--
A pessimist sees the glass as half empty.
An optometrist asks whether you see the glass
more full like this?...or like this?
Adam Funk
> Jeffrey Turner <jtu...@localnet.com> writes:
>
>> HVS wrote:
>>> On 27 May 2009, Adam Funk wrote
>>>
>>>> http://dilbert.com/fast/2009-05-27/
>>>>
>>> Yes, very interesting. My usage for "full of beans" is fairly
>>> positive -- enthusaistic, bordering on hyperactive/full of piss and
>>> vinegar -- rather than how Alice is using it.
>>
>> He's full of something which is unprintable in a family newspaper, so
>> beans has been chosen to substitute.
>
> But in this case, the substitution is necessary for the joke.
I don't recall hearing "full of beans" in the USA, but the only sense
I've heard in the UK is energetic/enthusiastic.
--
I could show them the ansible, but it didn't make a very convincing
Alien Artifact, being so incomprehensible as to fit in with hoax as
well as with reality. (LeGuin 1969)
Ian Jackson
<hat...@cox.net> writes
beans have a vary high carbohydrate content, and therefore provide you
with a 'slow-release' source of energy.
--
Ian
Cece
> Evan Kirshenbaum filted:
Fava beans (Vicia faba), native to the Old World, are quite ancient
and were popular all over Europe. Pythagorus happened to suffer from
favism, an allergy to beans that may be common in Mediterranean
populations.
Lima beans (Phaseolus limensis) and most other beans, like green,
kidney, black, pinto, navy, etc. (Phaseolus vulgaris), are native to
the New World. Soybeans (Glycine max) and mung beans (Vigna radiata)
are native to eastern Asia.
Leslie Danks
[...]
> I would have thought that the explanation for the expression is that
> beans have a vary high carbohydrate content, and therefore provide you
> with a 'slow-release' source of energy.
I haven't scoured the previous posts in this thread to see whether anyone
has dated the first appearance of the expression "full of beans", but I
suspect it originated long before the expression "slow-release
carbohydrate" was being bandied about.
Typically, 100 g of baked beans (approx. 1/4 of a tin) contains 13.6 g
carbohydrate (55.8 kcal), 4.7 g protein (19.3 kcal), and 0.2 g fat (1.9
kcal). The kilocalories supplied therefore come approximately 73% from
carbohydrate, 25% from protein and 2% from fat.
Whether this potential source of bean energy is released slowly or quickly
surely depends on the nature of the carbohydrate and not on the amount.
Another factoid: a daily requirement of 2500 kcal, which is typical for a
sedentary male of average weight, would be covered by eight tins of baked
beans per day (this figure will vary, of course, depending on the make of
baked beans). I don't know whether any calorie-conscious but socially
challenged person has ever has put this into practice.
--
Les (BrE)
Garrett Wollman
Leslie Danks <leslie...@aon.at> wrote:
>Whether this potential source of bean energy is released slowly or quickly
>surely depends on the nature of the carbohydrate and not on the amount.
Beans contain very little in the way of sugars. I found a nutrition
label for pinto beans which says 1/2 cup (85 g) of beans contains 22 g
of total carbohydrate, of which only 1 g is sugars, and 7 g is fiber
(indigestible polysaccharides). Most of the rest is starch.
Beans do contain oligosaccharides in significant amounts, which the
human digestive system is unable to make anything with, but which some
intestinal bacteria are equipped to break down. That's why beans
cause gas.
-GAWollman
--
Garrett A. Wollman | The real tragedy of human existence is not that we are
wol...@csail.mit.edu| nasty by nature, but that a cruel structural asymmetry
Opinions not those | grants to rare events of meanness such power to shape
of MIT or CSAIL. | our history. - S.J. Gould, Ten Thousand Acts of Kindness
Leslie Danks
> In article <4a1ebe31$0$2291$91ce...@newsreader01.highway.telekom.at>,
> Leslie Danks <leslie...@aon.at> wrote:
>>Whether this potential source of bean energy is released slowly or
>>quickly surely depends on the nature of the carbohydrate and not on the
>>amount.
>
> Beans contain very little in the way of sugars. I found a nutrition
> label for pinto beans which says 1/2 cup (85 g) of beans contains 22 g
> of total carbohydrate, of which only 1 g is sugars, and 7 g is fiber
> (indigestible polysaccharides). Most of the rest is starch.
I have a tin of "Weisse Bohnen" (kidney beans) whose label states 12.3 g
carbohydrate, of which 0.7 g is sugar. Dietary fibre (6.3 g) is stated
separately, and presumably comprises the polysaccharides; these figures
agree quite well with your pinto beans data. The 100 g beans are stated
to have a calorific value of 83 kcal, which does not include the fibre
(simple arithmetic).
I like baked beans in tomato sauce, especially on toast with plenty of
butter (standard fare in the UK but regarded in Austria as exotic, or
even disgusting). I once tried some "sugar-free" baked beans, which were
truly horrible. As a former colleague of mine once demonstrated by
filtering baked beans from a number of different companies, it is worth
paying a bit extra for Heinz because they have the highest beans to sauce
ratio.
I imagine baked beans lore is slightly infra dig. for many of the gourmets
who frequent AUE, but at least I am supplying you with a baseline beneath
which it would be difficult to go.
> Beans do contain oligosaccharides in significant amounts, which the
> human digestive system is unable to make anything with, but which some
> intestinal bacteria are equipped to break down. That's why beans
> cause gas.
--
Les (BrE)
Paul Wolff
slightly upmarket English supermarket, if such a thing is possible) cans
of baked beans in tomato sauce confess to about 30% of their
carbohydrate content being sugars. But it's well known, is it not? that
baked beans are heavily sweetened. It comes with the package.
>> Beans do contain oligosaccharides in significant amounts, which the
>> human digestive system is unable to make anything with, but which some
>> intestinal bacteria are equipped to break down. That's why beans
>> cause gas.
>
Oligosaccharides must be sugars, for small values of oligo (and doesn't
that prefix mean 'few'?).
--
Paul
james
<9cd3f955-efcd-4b6e...@y34g2000prb.googlegroups.com>,
Cece <ceceliaa...@yahoo.com> writes
>Fava beans (Vicia faba), native to the Old World, are quite ancient
>and were popular all over Europe.
Popularity revived by the Hannibal Lector Cookery Book closely followed
by the Mexican jumping bean (caused by a moth?) which gave rise to the
expression about being 'full of beans'.
--
James Follett.
Garrett Wollman
Leslie Danks <leslie...@aon.at> wrote:
>I like baked beans in tomato sauce, especially on toast with plenty of
>butter (standard fare in the UK but regarded in Austria as exotic, or
>even disgusting). I once tried some "sugar-free" baked beans, which were
>truly horrible.
I don't think I've ever seen either of those things here. The
standard baked bean (I'm guessing probably a Great Northern or
something similar) comes in a brown sauce made with molasses and pork
fat. (There are of course variants that substitute either or both of
these essential ingredients.) According to the Wikipedia article,
North American baked beans are generally sweeter than those made for
the British market.
>As a former colleague of mine once demonstrated by filtering baked
>beans from a number of different companies, it is worth paying a bit
>extra for Heinz because they have the highest beans to sauce ratio.
B&M, the default baked bean in these parts, comes from the Burnham &
Morrill Company of Portland, Maine (which is now part of the food
conglomerate B&G Foods). Bush Brothers & Co. sells Bush's Baked
Beans, which is apparently the top seller nationally. I've seen Heinz
beans in the store but I've never seen anyone buy them.
Mike Lyle
[...]
>
> [...]Umberto Eco,
> asked in the year 2000 as to the most important innovation of the last
> thousand years, replied that the cultivation of beans should be so
> considered.
I remember reading an article of his making that point, and I think it
was well before 2000. I found it wholly baffling, as people have been
growing beans for a lot longer than 1000 years --Pythagoras' disciples,
for example, were expressly forbidden to eat them. I think I concluded
that Eco for some reason knew only about the kinds which originated in
the New World.
--
Mike.
Default User
> In article
> <4a1ee1b2$0$11924$91ce...@newsreader04.highway.telekom.at>, Leslie
> Danks <leslie...@aon.at> wrote:
> > I like baked beans in tomato sauce, especially on toast with plenty
> > of butter (standard fare in the UK but regarded in Austria as
> > exotic, or even disgusting). I once tried some "sugar-free" baked
> > beans, which were truly horrible.
>
> I don't think I've ever seen either of those things here. The
> standard baked bean (I'm guessing probably a Great Northern or
> something similar) comes in a brown sauce made with molasses and pork
> fat.
Most commonly navy beans for commercial baked beans.
Brian
--
Day 115 of the "no grouchy usenet posts" project
Maria Conlon
> Hatunen wrote:
> Skitt (AmE)
Your site/cite notwithstanding, I have to agree with Dave.
Btw, the definition in "thefreeditionary" does not actually say "full of
shit," though "full of bull" is, I think, a shortening of "full of
bullshit." Same for "full of it." "Full of hot air" is more like "full
of bluster" or "full of nonsense," to me -- and "bluster" and "nonsense"
are not the same as "shit."
Anyway: "Full of beans" is something I'd use about (or to) children, and
I'd never say "full of shit" about or to a child.
I always thought that the use of "beans" in "full of beans" was probably
a reference to Mexican jumping beans. (I also think I've said that
before in AUE.)
Sorry for the repeated s-word.
--
Maria Conlon
Full of enthusiasm and hope (sometimes).
Maria Conlon
> Cece writes
>
>> Fava beans (Vicia faba), native to the Old World, are quite ancient
>> and were popular all over Europe.
>
> Popularity revived by the Hannibal Lector Cookery Book closely
> followed by the Mexican jumping bean (caused by a moth?) which gave
> rise to the expression about being 'full of beans'.
As you may see in my post of just few minutes ago (in reply to Skitt),
the Mexican jumping theory is one I agree with, even if some folks think
it sounds silly.
--
Maria Conlon
Evan Kirshenbaum
Which themselves were domesticated there a lot more than a thousand
years before. Or doesn't it count if it happened before Europeans
knew about it?
The large lima, however, is native to the Andes. Those found at
the Guitarrero Cave in the highlands of Pero were domesticated
even before both the common bean and corn. This cave is among the
most remarkable sites because it contains textiles and red
decorated pottery as well as the oldest cultivated plants in the
New World, found in layers dated about 8,5000 years ago, although
by some accounts they are even older. They are thus roughly
contemporary with many Old World sites of bean domestication.
Ken Albala, _Beans_, [2007]
Examples of fully domesticated common beans (_Phaseolus_ vulgaris)
and lima beans (_Phaseolus_ lunatus) were recovered from deposits
in Guitarrero Cave (PAn 14-102) in the Callej�n de Huaylas,
Ancash, Peru. Carbon-14 dates for stratum II, in which the
earliest beans were found, range from 7,680 � 280 to 10,000 � 300
years before the present.
L. Kaplan, et al., Early Cultivated Beans
(Phaseolus vulgaris) from an Intermontane
Peruvian Valley, _Science_, 1/1973
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |When you're ready to break a rule,
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |you _know_ that you're ready; you
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |don't need anyone else to tell
|you. (If you're not that certain,
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com |then you're _not_ ready.)
(650)857-7572 | Tom Phoenix
R H Draney
>
>Btw, the definition in "thefreeditionary" does not actually say "full of
>shit," though "full of bull" is, I think, a shortening of "full of
>bullshit." Same for "full of it." "Full of hot air" is more like "full
>of bluster" or "full of nonsense," to me -- and "bluster" and "nonsense"
>are not the same as "shit."
>
>Anyway: "Full of beans" is something I'd use about (or to) children, and
>I'd never say "full of shit" about or to a child.
From "Hollywood Squares":
Q: Tuesday's child is full of grace. What is Wednesday's child full of?
A: It looked like creamed spinach.
james
<boun...@two.wolff.co.uk> writes
>A quick look in the cupboard shows that Waitrose (for oversea-ers, a
>slightly upmarket English supermarket, if such a thing is possible)
>cans of baked beans in tomato sauce confess to about 30% of their
>carbohydrate content being sugars. But it's well known, is it not? that
>baked beans are heavily sweetened. It comes with the package.
Some English health experts advocate draining baked beans before eating
them. They have a point: all the detrimental crap is in the 'sauce':
genetically buggered tomatoes aspartame, quantities of sugar, and salt
and so on.
Odd that the English call them baked beans and yet have some creaky food
labelling regulations. Baked beans aren't baked; they're steamed.
I remember in the bad old days of Thomson and Morgan seeds that they
actually advertised packets of 'baked beans' with the accompanying sales
puff: 'Grow your own baked beans'. Presumably they sprang from the
ground ready-cooked.
--
James Follett.
Robert Bannister
> Garrett Wollman wrote:
>
>> In article <4a1ebe31$0$2291$91ce...@newsreader01.highway.telekom.at>,
>> Leslie Danks <leslie...@aon.at> wrote:
>>> Whether this potential source of bean energy is released slowly or
>>> quickly surely depends on the nature of the carbohydrate and not on the
>>> amount.
>> Beans contain very little in the way of sugars. I found a nutrition
>> label for pinto beans which says 1/2 cup (85 g) of beans contains 22 g
>> of total carbohydrate, of which only 1 g is sugars, and 7 g is fiber
>> (indigestible polysaccharides). Most of the rest is starch.
>
> I have a tin of "Weisse Bohnen" (kidney beans) whose label states 12.3 g
> carbohydrate, of which 0.7 g is sugar. Dietary fibre (6.3 g) is stated
> separately, and presumably comprises the polysaccharides; these figures
> agree quite well with your pinto beans data. The 100 g beans are stated
> to have a calorific value of 83 kcal, which does not include the fibre
> (simple arithmetic).
>
> I like baked beans in tomato sauce, especially on toast with plenty of
> butter (standard fare in the UK but regarded in Austria as exotic, or
> even disgusting). I once tried some "sugar-free" baked beans, which were
> truly horrible. As a former colleague of mine once demonstrated by
> filtering baked beans from a number of different companies, it is worth
> paying a bit extra for Heinz because they have the highest beans to sauce
> ratio.
Being English by birth, I am still a lover Heinz baked beans and won't
touch any other variety. However, when I was a student in Berlin, I
lived rather frugally on Bohnensuppe - 1 Mark for a big bowl of bean
soup with Wurst - very yummy and filling.
--
Rob Bannister
Tasha Miller
>
> I always thought that the use of "beans" in "full of beans" was
> probably a reference to Mexican jumping beans. (I also think I've
> said that before in AUE.)
>
That is where I've always assumed the expression came from, although without
any particular evidence for it. I've just realised I don't even know what a
Mexican jumping bean is but an image of a chihuahua in a huge sombrero
(Speedy Gonzales?) just popped into my head so perhaps it has something to
do with cartoons.
Skitt
Here's another:
from http://www.goenglish.com/Idioms/Full.asp
Full Of Beans �
(not truthful; dishonest...)
--
Skitt (AmE)
Maria Conlon
news:788tshF...@mid.individual.net...
OR
(I recommend the shorter URL.)
--
Maria Conlon
Maria Conlon
>
> Here's another:
> from http://www.goenglish.com/Idioms/Full.asp
>
> Full Of Beans �
> (not truthful; dishonest...)
I've never heard that one. Just goes to show that you never know what
you don't know....
Or something like that.
--
Maria Conlon
R H Draney
For the record, cartoon character Speedy Gonzales is a mouse, not a
chihuahua...in the Pat Boone hit from 1962, the character of that name seems to
be human, although this fact is obscured by the use of Mel Blanc's voice
intercut to deliver a lot of Mexican-accented patter between verses....r
Tasha Miller
Thanks, Maria. That brought back memories of some sort of weighted capsule
toy I had as a child and I think this link shows the same kind. I definitely
had no idea there was any such thing as a real live jumping bean!
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tobar-03366-Box-Jumping-Beans/dp/B000H6QV3M
Nick Spalding
on Thu, 28 May 2009 19:08:51 -0400:
Another quite different theory is that it derives from the feeding of
horses.
<http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_board/30/messages/2049.html>
> FULL OF PRUNES (OR BEANS) -"Each has the same meaning - peppy,
> lively, energetic, in high spirits, feeling one's oats, rarin' to go. 'Beans'
> was the first, and was originally said of horses after a feeding of beans
> raised for fodder - horse beans. Undoubtedly the spirited state of a
> bean-fed horse was observed in remote times - Romans also used
> beans as fodder - but I find nothing equivalent to the current expression
> before its own rise less than a hundred years ago. (Note publication
> date of reference.).The substitution of 'prunes' came into use at least
> seventy years ago, but a satisfactory reason for it is difficult to
> determine." From "Heavens to Betsy" (1955, Harper & Row) by
> Charles Earle Funk.
--
Nick Spalding
BrE/IrE
Adam Funk
> tinwhistler <ozzie...@post.harvard.edu> writes:
>
>> The Brits, based on my experience, do not think AmE is worth a hill of
>> beans, and that Americans generally do not know beans. Umberto Eco,
>> asked in the year 2000 as to the most important innovation of the last
>> thousand years, replied that the cultivation of beans should be so
>> considered.
>
> I would have thought that beans have been cultivated for considerably
> longer than that, in both the Old and New Worlds.
McGee (_On Food and Cooking_, 2nd edn) gives dates for the cultivation
of various legumes: fava, 3000 BCE; chickpeas, 7000 BCE, various New
World beans, 5000 BCE; lentils, "oldest" (no date).
He also mentions that the esteem of legumes in classical times is
reflected in four famous Roman families' names: Fabius, Lentulus,
Piso, and Cicero (fava, lentil, pea, and chickpea).
--
Leila: "I don't think he knows."
Agent Rogersz: "Increase the voltage."
Leila: "What if he's innocent?"
Agent Rogersz: "No one is innocent. Proceed" (Cox 1984)
Adam Funk
> Fava beans (Vicia faba), native to the Old World, are quite ancient
> and were popular all over Europe. Pythagorus happened to suffer from
> favism, an allergy to beans that may be common in Mediterranean
> populations.
I was surprised that favism would be common in a high-fava area, but
McGee (_On Food and Cooking_) confirms this and explains that the
associated enzyme deficiency provides some protection from malaria.
--
I don't know what they have to say
It makes no difference anyway;
Whatever it is, I'm against it! [Prof. Wagstaff]
Frank ess
Quick lesson in Espanish:
��C�mo est�, Frij�l?� = "How you bean?"
--
Frank ese
Pat Durkin
news:Of-dnQ5QhNHMcoLX...@giganews.com
Como un tamal, mijo.
CDB
> "Frank ess" <fr...@fshe2fs.com> wrote:
[Five Lifestyles of Man: Part 5]
>> Quick lesson in Espanish:
>> ��C�mo est�, Frij�l?� = "How you bean?"
> Como un tamal, mijo.
WBT="I've bean wurst"?
http://stason.org/TULARC/humour/firesign-theatre-lexicon/Firesign-Theatre-Lexicon-F.html
Robin Bignall
<mike_l...@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>tinwhistler wrote:
>[...]
>>
>> [...]Umberto Eco,
>> asked in the year 2000 as to the most important innovation of the last
>> thousand years, replied that the cultivation of beans should be so
>> considered.
>
>I remember reading an article of his making that point, and I think it
>was well before 2000. I found it wholly baffling, as people have been
>growing beans for a lot longer than 1000 years --Pythagoras' disciples,
>for example, were expressly forbidden to eat them.
It was that square on the high pot in use. The summary of the other
squares taking sides was that he was a has-bean.
--
Robin
(BrE)
Herts, England
Robin Bignall
Yet another of Rumsfeld's unknown unknowns.
stephanie...@telenet.be
> Fava beans (Vicia faba), native to the Old World, are quite ancient
> and were popular all over Europe. Pythagorus happened to suffer from
> favism, an allergy to beans that may be common in Mediterranean
> populations.
Too bad. One more letter and he could've founded a much more modern
art movement.
S in B
Mike Lyle
[...]
>
> Another quite different theory is that it derives from the feeding of
> horses.
>
> <http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_board/30/messages/2049.html>
>
>> FULL OF PRUNES (OR BEANS) -"Each has the same meaning - peppy,
>> lively, energetic, in high spirits, feeling one's oats, rarin' to
>> go. 'Beans' was the first, and was originally said of horses after a
>> feeding of beans raised for fodder - horse beans. Undoubtedly the
>> spirited state of a bean-fed horse was observed in remote times -
>> Romans also used
>> beans as fodder - but I find nothing equivalent to the current
>> expression before its own rise less than a hundred years ago. (Note
>> publication
>> date of reference.).The substitution of 'prunes' came into use at
>> least seventy years ago, but a satisfactory reason for it is
>> difficult to determine." From "Heavens to Betsy" (1955, Harper &
>> Row) by
>> Charles Earle Funk.
I find it very hard even to entertain any but the horse-feed theory, as
I've "known" that all my life. See also "gram-fed": in India, the best
horses are given chickpeas, and the expression became extended to
pampered* people. "Gingered up" is also horsey in origin, though not as
nice as feeding the steed on pulses: the old horse-copers (ancestors of
certain second-hand car salesmen) would sometimes stick a piece of
ginger up a horse's bung to make it seem spirited.
*I've commented before on the sad way this word has come down in the
world. Once upon a time, pampering a woman would have involved giving
her luxury food and generally spoiling her; but in today's mag-speak it
just means paltry things like letting her have a bath with Radox in it.
--
Mike.
Evan Kirshenbaum
> Nick Spalding wrote:
> [...]
>>
>> Another quite different theory is that it derives from the feeding of
>> horses.
>>
>> <http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_board/30/messages/2049.html>
>>
>>> FULL OF PRUNES (OR BEANS) -"Each has the same meaning - peppy,
>>> lively, energetic, in high spirits, feeling one's oats, rarin' to
>>> go. 'Beans' was the first, and was originally said of horses after
>>> a feeding of beans raised for fodder - horse beans. Undoubtedly
>>> the spirited state of a bean-fed horse was observed in remote
>>> times - Romans also used beans as fodder - but I find nothing
>>> equivalent to the current expression before its own rise less than
>>> a hundred years ago. (Note publication date of reference.).The
>>> substitution of 'prunes' came into use at least seventy years ago,
>>> but a satisfactory reason for it is difficult to determine." From
>>> "Heavens to Betsy" (1955, Harper & Row) by Charles Earle Funk.
>
> I find it very hard even to entertain any but the horse-feed theory, as
> I've "known" that all my life.
That seems to be the consensus of what I see on Google Books. The OED
doesn't give an etymology, citing it to 1854:
1854 SURTEES _Handley Cross_ xxxii. 254 'Ounds, 'osses, and men,
are in a glorious state of excitement! Full o' beans and
benevolence!
but I see it earlier as explicitly a horse term:
[Attn Jesse Sheidlower: OED antedating]
Mr. Fivebars never spoke of ladies in other terms than those which
are used in discussing the merits of a horse. He talked of one
woman being "in good condition;" another was "full of beans," if
she was gay and lively; and a third had "grand action and easy
paces."
[George Valentine Cox], _Jeannette
Isabelle_, 1837
Now, then, coach is a-vaitin' ... an' the hosses is so precious
full o' beans, they von't stand for nobody nor nothin'.
George Reynolds, _Pickwick Abroad_, 1839
There's one other from around the same time not specifically to do
with horses:
Yes, a hot mash as you'll lap up in no time, and feel yourself as
full of beans as a grocer's coffee-mill
"The Life and Times of Peter Priggins",
_New Monthly Magazine_, 1839
The horse-feed origin is being proffered by 1890:
FULL OF BEANS, _phr._ (society).--In good form or condition; as
full of health, spirits, or capacity as a horse after a good feed
of beans.
John Farmer, _Slang and its Analogues Past
and Present_, 1890
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |It's gotten to the point where the
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |only place you can get work done is
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |at home, because no one bugs you,
|and the best place to entertain
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com |yourself is at work, because the
(650)857-7572 |Internet connections are faster.
| Scott Adams
http://www.kirshenbaum.net/
Ildhund
> I imagine baked beans lore is slightly infra dig. for many of the
> gourmets who frequent AUE, but at least I am supplying you with a
> baseline beneath which it would be difficult to go.
That shall not go unchallenged:
"Beans, beans are good for your heart -
The more you eat, the more you fart.
The more you fart, the better you feel,
So let's have beans for every meal."
- schoolboy doggerel probably c. 1955.
--
Noel
Frank ess
When I presented my version to my Mexican in-laws, they laughed unto
tears:
"Beans, beans, the 'Musical Fruit' -
The more you eat, the more you toot.
The more you toot, the better you feel,
So let's have beans for every meal."
--
Frank ess
Evan Kirshenbaum
The notion of "musical fruit" is apparently a fair bit older:
It is just about time that we had a little more than beans for
dinner, for musical fruit is oftentimes tiresome, and the Lord
only knows we have had our share of it; aye, enough to furnish
dozens of airship concerns with buoyant power.
letter, _The Postal Record_, May, 1905
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |"Algebra? But that's far too
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |difficult for seven-year-olds!"
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |
|"Yes, but I didn't tell them that
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com |and so far they haven't found out,"
(650)857-7572 |said Susan.
Adam Funk
> On Wed, 27 May 2009 12:05:12 -0700, "Skitt" <ski...@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
>>Leslie Danks wrote:
>>> HVS wrote:
>>>> Adam Funk wrote
>>
>>>>> http://dilbert.com/fast/2009-05-27/
>>>>>
>>>> Yes, very interesting. My usage for "full of beans" is fairly
>>>> positive -- enthusaistic, bordering on hyperactive/full of piss and
>>>> vinegar -- rather than how Alice is using it.
>>>
>>> Mine too.
>>
>>It's a BrE thing. In AmE, "full of beans" = "full of shit" = lying.
>
> I've been an American for a long time and I have never heard it
> used in that sense.
I don't recall hearing "full of beans" when I lived in the USA, but I
may have just forgotten. However, I recently read Paul Auster's
_Travels in the Scriptorium_, which includes the expression in the
positive sense as explained by HVS above.
[Mr Blank just read part of a book and has been making up the
continuation for a therapist.]
Very nice. The names are a good touch, Mr. Blank.
My brain is turning at a hundred miles an hour. Haven't felt so
full of beans all day.
Old habits die hard, I suppose.
What's that supposed to mean?
Nothing. Just that you're in good form, beginning to hit your
stride. What happens next?
(That's a dialogue, written as paragraphs without quotation marks.)
--
In the 1970s, people began receiving utility bills for
-£999,999,996.32 and it became harder to sustain the
myth of the infallible electronic brain. (Stob 2001)
Ray O'Hara
"Adam Funk" <a24...@ducksburg.com> wrote in message
news:1ce0u6x...@news.ducksburg.com...
"Full of beans" means full of shit but more politely.
Stan Brown
oh...@hotmail.com>:
> "Full of beans" means full of shit but more politely.
I can't recall context, but I think I've also seen it used to mean
full of vim and vigor, ebullient.
--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com
Shikata ga nai...
Nick Spalding
on Thu, 26 Nov 2009 10:42:47 -0500:
> Wed, 25 Nov 2009 18:36:20 -0500 from Ray O'Hara <raymond-
> oh...@hotmail.com>:
>
> > "Full of beans" means full of shit but more politely.
>
> I can't recall context, but I think I've also seen it used to mean
> full of vim and vigor, ebullient.
That is the only meaning I had heard before encountering the other one
here a little under a year ago.
--
Nick Spalding
BrE/IrE
LFS
> Wed, 25 Nov 2009 18:36:20 -0500 from Ray O'Hara <raymond-
> oh...@hotmail.com>:
>
>> "Full of beans" means full of shit but more politely.
>
> I can't recall context, but I think I've also seen it used to mean
> full of vim and vigor, ebullient.
>
Yes, that's exactly what it means in BrE. I think we've discussed this
before.
--
Laura
(emulate St. George for email)
Adam Funk
> Stan Brown wrote:
>> Wed, 25 Nov 2009 18:36:20 -0500 from Ray O'Hara <raymond-
>> oh...@hotmail.com>:
>>
>>> "Full of beans" means full of shit but more politely.
>>
>> I can't recall context, but I think I've also seen it used to mean
>> full of vim and vigor, ebullient.
>>
>
> Yes, that's exactly what it means in BrE. I think we've discussed this
> before.
Yes. I brought it up again because I found that passage by Paul
Auster (an American author) using it with (what we generally agreed
was) the BrE meaning.
--
Oh, I am just a student, sir, and I only want to learn
But it's hard to read through the rising smoke
of the books that you want to burn
[Phil Ochs]
LFS
> On 2009-11-26, LFS wrote:
>
>> Stan Brown wrote:
>>> Wed, 25 Nov 2009 18:36:20 -0500 from Ray O'Hara <raymond-
>>> oh...@hotmail.com>:
>>>
>>>> "Full of beans" means full of shit but more politely.
>>> I can't recall context, but I think I've also seen it used to mean
>>> full of vim and vigor, ebullient.
>>>
>> Yes, that's exactly what it means in BrE. I think we've discussed this
>> before.
>
> Yes. I brought it up again because I found that passage by Paul
> Auster (an American author) using it with (what we generally agreed
> was) the BrE meaning.
>
>
Ah, well, Paul Auster would do that, wouldn't he? His books are full of
interesting little quirkinesses that work on all sorts of different levels.
Ray O'Hara
"Stan Brown" <the_sta...@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:MPG.25786bffd...@news.individual.net...
> Wed, 25 Nov 2009 18:36:20 -0500 from Ray O'Hara <raymond-
> oh...@hotmail.com>:
>
>> "Full of beans" means full of shit but more politely.
>
> I can't recall context, but I think I've also seen it used to mean
> full of vim and vigor, ebullient.
>
That would be full of piss and vinegar where I come from.
fULL OF BEANS IS WHAT A NUN WOULD SAY WHEN YOU TOLD A WHOPPER.
Jerry Friedman
> "Stan Brown" <the_stan_br...@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
I'm used to "full of beans" meaning "full of piss and vinegar". I've
heard the "full of shit" meaning, but it seems secondary to me.
I would have expected a nun to say, "That's not true, Raymond O'Hara,
and you know it," but what do I know from nuns?
--
Jerry Friedman
Robert Bannister
> "Stan Brown" <the_sta...@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
> news:MPG.25786bffd...@news.individual.net...
>> Wed, 25 Nov 2009 18:36:20 -0500 from Ray O'Hara <raymond-
>> oh...@hotmail.com>:
>>
>>> "Full of beans" means full of shit but more politely.
>> I can't recall context, but I think I've also seen it used to mean
>> full of vim and vigor, ebullient.
>>
>
> That would be full of piss and vinegar where I come from.
Another myth dispelled. I always assumed that meant angry.
> fULL OF BEANS IS WHAT A NUN WOULD SAY WHEN YOU TOLD A WHOPPER.
>
>
--
Rob Bannister
Chuck Riggs
You're full of beans (YFOB) has milder connotations than you're full
of shit (YFOS), IMO, since YFOS means you are completely and totally
wrong. In both Ireland and America, when I've heard YFOB, it simply
meant you are very much mistaken.
--
Regards,
Chuck Riggs,
An American who lives near Dublin, Ireland and usually spells in BrE
Steve Hayes
>You're full of beans (YFOB) has milder connotations than you're full
>of shit (YFOS), IMO, since YFOS means you are completely and totally
>wrong. In both Ireland and America, when I've heard YFOB, it simply
>meant you are very much mistaken.
In South Africa it means "sprightly".
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
Jerry Friedman
> On Fri, 27 Nov 2009 16:20:19 +0000, Chuck Riggs <chri...@eircom.net> wrote:
> >You're full of beans (YFOB) has milder connotations than you're full
> >of shit (YFOS), IMO, since YFOS means you are completely and totally
> >wrong. In both Ireland and America, when I've heard YFOB, it simply
> >meant you are very much mistaken.
>
> In South Africa it means "sprightly".
The /American Heritage Dictionary of Idioms/ dates this meaning to c.
1840 and the "acting foolish, talking nonsense" meaning to c. 1930
(unless that date refers to the synonymous "full of prunes"--you may
not care a fig about it for any raisin). It says there's no valid
reason for the "lively, energetic, in high spirits" meaning.
http://books.google.com/books?id=9re1vfFh04sC&pg=PA229#v=onepage&q=&f=false
--
Jerry Friedman
Steve Hayes
<jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Nov 27, 9:09�pm, Steve Hayes <hayesm...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, 27 Nov 2009 16:20:19 +0000, Chuck Riggs <chri...@eircom.net> wrote:
>> >You're full of beans (YFOB) has milder connotations than you're full
>> >of shit (YFOS), IMO, since YFOS means you are completely and totally
>> >wrong. In both Ireland and America, when I've heard YFOB, it simply
>> >meant you are very much mistaken.
>>
>> In South Africa it means "sprightly".
>
>The /American Heritage Dictionary of Idioms/ dates this meaning to c.
>1840 and the "acting foolish, talking nonsense" meaning to c. 1930
>(unless that date refers to the synonymous "full of prunes"--you may
>not care a fig about it for any raisin). It says there's no valid
>reason for the "lively, energetic, in high spirits" meaning.
Is there any "valid reason" for the other meaning?
The only person I've ever comes across who uses it in the "talking nonsesnse"
sense is Chuck Riggs.
Chuck Riggs
<haye...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>On Fri, 27 Nov 2009 20:41:45 -0800 (PST), Jerry Friedman
><jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>On Nov 27, 9:09�pm, Steve Hayes <hayesm...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 27 Nov 2009 16:20:19 +0000, Chuck Riggs <chri...@eircom.net> wrote:
>>> >You're full of beans (YFOB) has milder connotations than you're full
>>> >of shit (YFOS), IMO, since YFOS means you are completely and totally
>>> >wrong. In both Ireland and America, when I've heard YFOB, it simply
>>> >meant you are very much mistaken.
>>>
>>> In South Africa it means "sprightly".
>>
>>The /American Heritage Dictionary of Idioms/ dates this meaning to c.
>>1840 and the "acting foolish, talking nonsense" meaning to c. 1930
>>(unless that date refers to the synonymous "full of prunes"--you may
>>not care a fig about it for any raisin). It says there's no valid
>>reason for the "lively, energetic, in high spirits" meaning.
>
>Is there any "valid reason" for the other meaning?
>
>The only person I've ever comes across who uses it in the "talking nonsesnse"
>sense is Chuck Riggs.
I've only used it a few times, mostly inside AUE, but I may well have
had the wrong meaning for it. I got the impression "you're full of
beans" meant "you're talking nonsense" from a County Mayo man I knew
when I lived in Westport. I probably misunderstood him.
Skitt
> Steve Hayes wrote:
>> Jerry Friedman wrote:
>>> Steve Hayes wrote:
>>>> Chuck Riggs wrote:
>>>>> You're full of beans (YFOB) has milder connotations than you're
>>>>> full of shit (YFOS), IMO, since YFOS means you are completely and
>>>>> totally wrong. In both Ireland and America, when I've heard YFOB,
>>>>> it simply meant you are very much mistaken.
>>>>
>>>> In South Africa it means "sprightly".
>>>
>>> The /American Heritage Dictionary of Idioms/ dates this meaning to
>>> c. 1840 and the "acting foolish, talking nonsense" meaning to c.
>>> 1930 (unless that date refers to the synonymous "full of
>>> prunes"--you may not care a fig about it for any raisin). It says
>>> there's no valid reason for the "lively, energetic, in high
>>> spirits" meaning.
>>
>> Is there any "valid reason" for the other meaning?
>>
>> The only person I've ever comes across who uses it in the "talking
>> nonsesnse" sense is Chuck Riggs.
>
> I've only used it a few times, mostly inside AUE, but I may well have
> had the wrong meaning for it. I got the impression "you're full of
> beans" meant "you're talking nonsense" from a County Mayo man I knew
> when I lived in Westport. I probably misunderstood him.
"Full of beans" has been used with the "full of crap" meaning.
From http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/full_of_beans :
========================
full of beans
Definition from Wiktionary, a free dictionary
Jump to: navigation, search
[edit] English
[edit] Adjective
full of beans (comparative more full of beans, superlative most full of
beans)
Positive
full of beans
Comparative
more full of beans
Superlative
most full of beans
1. (idiomatic) Energetic and enthusiastic.
* 1919, P. G. Wodehouse, "The Aunt and the Sluggard" in My Man
Jeeves,
"What do you mean by the expression 'Bucks you up'?"
"Well, makes you full of beans, you know. Makes you fizz."
"I don't understand a word you say. You're English, aren't
you?"
* 2006, Karen Thomas and Lindsey Arkley, "World mourns 'Crocodile
Hunter'," USA Today, 6 Sep. (retrieved 6 Nov. 2008),
Irwin's friend Chris White reflected on a friendship that
began in 1975. . . . "Full of beans, full of life, gung-ho, fearless,
tenacious at anything he attempted."
2. (idiomatic) Incorrect; uninformed; exaggerating or expressing
falsehood.
* 2008, David Carr, "Talk to the Newsroom: David Carr, Culture
Reporter and Business Columnist," New York Times, 31 Mar. (retrieved 6 Nov.
2008),
Anybody who tells you that they know what today's readers
want is full of beans.
[edit] Synonyms
* (energetic and enthusiastic): feeling one's oats
* (incorrect; uninformed; expressing falsehood): full of shit
=======================
--
Skitt (AmE)
Pat Durkin
news:mtk1h51ejhv2rdnrp...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 27 Nov 2009 20:41:45 -0800 (PST), Jerry Friedman
> <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>On Nov 27, 9:09 pm, Steve Hayes <hayesm...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 27 Nov 2009 16:20:19 +0000, Chuck Riggs
>>> <chri...@eircom.net> wrote:
>>> >You're full of beans (YFOB) has milder connotations than you're
>>> >full
>>> >of shit (YFOS), IMO, since YFOS means you are completely and
>>> >totally
>>> >wrong. In both Ireland and America, when I've heard YFOB, it
>>> >simply
>>> >meant you are very much mistaken.
>>>
>>> In South Africa it means "sprightly".
>>
>>The /American Heritage Dictionary of Idioms/ dates this meaning to
>>c.
>>1840 and the "acting foolish, talking nonsense" meaning to c. 1930
>>(unless that date refers to the synonymous "full of prunes"--you may
>>not care a fig about it for any raisin). It says there's no valid
>>reason for the "lively, energetic, in high spirits" meaning.
>
> Is there any "valid reason" for the other meaning?
>
> The only person I've ever comes across who uses it in the "talking
> nonsesnse"
> sense is Chuck Riggs.
I like Skitt's sources as the "other meaning", since "talking
nonsense" is a milder form of "talking shit", as Chuck indicates "full
of beans is a milder form of "full of shit".
The last time this came up, we were given an example of "full of
beans" as sprightly, lively, in high spirits as a description of a
race-horse who was acting up.
To me, that just underlined my understanding as "full of shit",
because, if you are close enough to those sprightly horses, you will
hear them fart and smell the "airs". I think that farting usually
accompanies the neighing, prancing and aggressive displays that studs
make around teaser mares.
The sounds are usually disguised among all the sounds of stamping,
squealing, snorting, squeaking leather, kicked stall boards and
trailer floors, not to mention the yells of the handlers.
And, for the romantic, something as mundane as a fart is too real to
mention.
Roland Hutchinson
Vocative
O, most full of beans!
--
Roland Hutchinson
He calls himself "the Garden State's leading violist da gamba,"
... comparable to being ruler of an exceptionally small duchy.
--Newark (NJ) Star Ledger ( http://tinyurl.com/RolandIsNJ )
Peter Moylan
> On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 11:29:06 -0800, Skitt wrote:
>> full of beans (comparative more full of beans, superlative most full of
>> beans)
>>
>> Positive
>> full of beans
>>
>>
>> Comparative
>> more full of beans
>>
>>
>> Superlative
>> most full of beans
>
> Vocative
> O, most full of beans!
Nonnative
Complete with beans.
--
Peter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org
For an e-mail address, see my web page.
Jerry Friedman
> On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 09:41:10 +0200, Steve Hayes
...
> >>The /American Heritage Dictionary of Idioms/ dates this meaning to c.
> >>1840 and the "acting foolish, talking nonsense" meaning to c. 1930
> >>(unless that date refers to the synonymous "full of prunes"--you may
> >>not care a fig about it for any raisin). It says there's no valid
> >>reason for the "lively, energetic, in high spirits" meaning.
>
> >Is there any "valid reason" for the other meaning?
Presumably a euphemism for "full of shit". I don't know what they
count as valid, but I can easily imagine someone starting to say "full
of shit", changing their mind, and coming up with another fixed phrase
instead.
> >The only person I've ever comes across who uses it in the "talking nonsesnse"
> >sense is Chuck Riggs.
>
> I've only used it a few times, mostly inside AUE, but I may well have
> had the wrong meaning for it. I got the impression "you're full of
> beans" meant "you're talking nonsense" from a County Mayo man I knew
> when I lived in Westport. I probably misunderstood him.
The "talking nonsense" definition is in the /American Heritage
Dictionary of Idioms/. Ray O'Hara said it's the one he's familiar
with, and I said I've heard it. I can't comment on your conversation
with the man from Co. Mayo, but I wouldn't say the definition you've
used is wrong.
So Steve will have heard it from someone other than you:
"If Bax made an inaccurate statement about me you can bet that I would
notify him and tell him he's full of beans."
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13656643
("RC" apparently stands for "remote control" [aircraft].)
--
Jerry Friedman
Steve Hayes
<jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Nov 28, 8:55�am, Chuck Riggs <chri...@eircom.net> wrote:
>> On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 09:41:10 +0200, Steve Hayes
>> <hayesm...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >On Fri, 27 Nov 2009 20:41:45 -0800 (PST), Jerry Friedman
>> ><jerry_fried...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>...
>
>> >>The /American Heritage Dictionary of Idioms/ dates this meaning to c.
>> >>1840 and the "acting foolish, talking nonsense" meaning to c. 1930
>> >>(unless that date refers to the synonymous "full of prunes"--you may
>> >>not care a fig about it for any raisin). �It says there's no valid
>> >>reason for the "lively, energetic, in high spirits" meaning.
>>
>> >Is there any "valid reason" for the other meaning?
>
>Presumably a euphemism for "full of shit". I don't know what they
>count as valid, but I can easily imagine someone starting to say "full
>of shit", changing their mind, and coming up with another fixed phrase
>instead.
Saul Alinsky, in his "Rules for radicals" describes feeding members of an
audience large quantities of beans before a meeting at which the main speaker
was expected to talk crap. But being "full of beans" was meant to be the
antidote.
>> >The only person I've ever comes across who uses it in the "talking nonsesnse"
>> >sense is Chuck Riggs.
>>
>> I've only used it a few times, mostly inside AUE, but I may well have
>> had the wrong meaning for it. I got the impression "you're full of
>> beans" meant "you're talking nonsense" from a County Mayo man I knew
>> when I lived in Westport. I probably misunderstood him.
>
>The "talking nonsense" definition is in the /American Heritage
>Dictionary of Idioms/. Ray O'Hara said it's the one he's familiar
>with, and I said I've heard it. I can't comment on your conversation
>with the man from Co. Mayo, but I wouldn't say the definition you've
>used is wrong.
>
>So Steve will have heard it from someone other than you:
Let's say I *first* heard it from Chuck Riggs in a discussion in this forum,
perhaps a year to two ago.
Until then the only meaning I was aware of was the well, healthy, active
cheerful one.
"Has your mother-in-law recovered from her illness?"
"Oh yes, she's full of beans."
Chuck Riggs
So if I tell a Dubliner he's full of beans, what interpretation is he
likely to give it?
Chuck Riggs
Perhaps it has dual meanings, to fit the occasion.
Jerry Friedman
> So if I tell a Dubliner he's full of beans, what interpretation is he
> likely to give it?
No idea, but if he only knows one meaning and the context and your
tone indicate the other, you'll probably be able to straighten things
out.
--
Jerry Friedman
Steve Hayes
No doubt it does. But I was only aware of one of them until you mentioned the
other.
Maria Conlon
> Let's say I *first* heard it from Chuck Riggs in a discussion in this
> forum,
> perhaps a year to two ago.
>
> Until then the only meaning I was aware of was the well, healthy,
> active
> cheerful one.
>
> "Has your mother-in-law recovered from her illness?"
> "Oh yes, she's full of beans."
FWIW, Steve, the meaning I use for "full of beans" is the "well,
healthy, active, cheerful one." (And the phrase "full of beans" is
especially useful to apply to very active, playful children.)
The other meanings offered -- such as full of crap, etc. -- do not for
me work when "beans" is euphemistically used. And I doubt that I've ever
recognized a "full of beans" usage as being about "crap," etc. Most
people who mean "full of [something other than beans]" will use the
exact term. Otherwise, they may well be misunderstood. (Trust me on
this.)
--
Maria Conlon
A quote from Larry the Cable Guy: "Light travels faster than sound.
That's why some people appear bright until you hear them speak."
Steve Hayes
wrote:
>Steve Hayes wrote:
>
>> Let's say I *first* heard it from Chuck Riggs in a discussion in this
>> forum,
>> perhaps a year to two ago.
>>
>> Until then the only meaning I was aware of was the well, healthy,
>> active
>> cheerful one.
>>
>> "Has your mother-in-law recovered from her illness?"
>> "Oh yes, she's full of beans."
>
>FWIW, Steve, the meaning I use for "full of beans" is the "well,
>healthy, active, cheerful one." (And the phrase "full of beans" is
>especially useful to apply to very active, playful children.)
>
>The other meanings offered -- such as full of crap, etc. -- do not for
>me work when "beans" is euphemistically used. And I doubt that I've ever
>recognized a "full of beans" usage as being about "crap," etc. Most
>people who mean "full of [something other than beans]" will use the
>exact term. Otherwise, they may well be misunderstood. (Trust me on
>this.)
It sounds as though Chuck's meaning is primarily Irish.
R H Draney
>
>FWIW, Steve, the meaning I use for "full of beans" is the "well,
>healthy, active, cheerful one." (And the phrase "full of beans" is
>especially useful to apply to very active, playful children.)
>
>The other meanings offered -- such as full of crap, etc. -- do not for
>me work when "beans" is euphemistically used. And I doubt that I've ever
>recognized a "full of beans" usage as being about "crap," etc. Most
>people who mean "full of [something other than beans]" will use the
>exact term. Otherwise, they may well be misunderstood. (Trust me on
>this.)
On 18 March 1963, and repeated tonight on TVLand, there was an episode of "The
Andy Griffith Show" containing the following dialogue:
Aunt Bee: "What's that sound?"
Andy: "Probably just the Darlings." [a family of hill-folk given to playing
bluegrass music]
Aunt Bee: "Starlings? At *this* time of year? Oh, Andy, you're full of
beans!"
....r
--
A pessimist sees the glass as half empty.
An optometrist asks whether you see the glass
more full like this?...or like this?
Nick Spalding
on Mon, 30 Nov 2009 05:42:49 +0200:
> On Sun, 29 Nov 2009 21:46:01 -0500, "Maria Conlon" <conlo...@sbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
>
> >Steve Hayes wrote:
> >
> >> Let's say I *first* heard it from Chuck Riggs in a discussion in this
> >> forum,
> >> perhaps a year to two ago.
> >>
> >> Until then the only meaning I was aware of was the well, healthy,
> >> active
> >> cheerful one.
> >>
> >> "Has your mother-in-law recovered from her illness?"
> >> "Oh yes, she's full of beans."
> >
> >FWIW, Steve, the meaning I use for "full of beans" is the "well,
> >healthy, active, cheerful one." (And the phrase "full of beans" is
> >especially useful to apply to very active, playful children.)
> >
> >The other meanings offered -- such as full of crap, etc. -- do not for
> >me work when "beans" is euphemistically used. And I doubt that I've ever
> >recognized a "full of beans" usage as being about "crap," etc. Most
> >people who mean "full of [something other than beans]" will use the
> >exact term. Otherwise, they may well be misunderstood. (Trust me on
> >this.)
>
> It sounds as though Chuck's meaning is primarily Irish.
I've never heard it here with that meaning but then I haven't heard it a
lot here at all.
--
Nick Spalding
BrE/IrE
Peter Moylan
For another data point: in my experience, "full of beans" has always
meant full of energy or full of enthusiasm. I had never heard of the
"full of shit" meaning until I read it here on aue.
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
wrote:
>Nick Spalding wrote:
>> Steve Hayes wrote, in <qof6h5184r65pqh5b...@4ax.com> on
>> Mon, 30 Nov 2009 05:42:49 +0200:
>>
>>> On Sun, 29 Nov 2009 21:46:01 -0500, "Maria Conlon"
>>> <conlo...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>>>> The other meanings offered -- such as full of crap, etc. -- do
>>>> not for me work when "beans" is euphemistically used. And I doubt
>>>> that I've ever recognized a "full of beans" usage as being about
>>>> "crap," etc. Most people who mean "full of [something other than
>>>> beans]" will use the exact term. Otherwise, they may well be
>>>> misunderstood. (Trust me on this.)
>>> It sounds as though Chuck's meaning is primarily Irish.
>>
>> I've never heard it here with that meaning but then I haven't heard
>> it a lot here at all.
>
>For another data point: in my experience, "full of beans" has always
>meant full of energy or full of enthusiasm. I had never heard of the
>"full of shit" meaning until I read it here on aue.
Me neither. This article about HJ Heinz [UK and Ireland] finance
director, Garry Price uses "full of beans" in the "lively" sense. The
file name in the URL also makes a pun on one of his company's products
and his job:
http://www.financialdirector.co.uk/financial-director/features/2224580/beanz-counter-4192455
Garry Price is full of beans. There�s no other way to describe him.
We meet him on an auspicious day: it�s exactly 23 years since he
started his career as a trainee with HJ Heinz in Canada and yet,
even after almost a quarter of a century with the same company, he
still talks ten-to-the-dozen,[1] pinging from people to products to
performance like a pinball, peppering his speech with imagined
conversations with other people to illustrate his point and bubbling
with an enthusiasm you couldn�t put in a bottle if you tried and
which contains absolutely no artificial ingredients. It�s a wonder
we got him to stay still long enough for the photoshoot.
[1] I know the phrase as "nineteen-to-the-dozen" rather than
"ten-to-the-dozen":
http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-nin2.htm
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Maria Conlon
> Maria Conlon wrote, in part:
>
>>(Trust me on this.)
>
> Old joke:
> Q: How do you say "fuck you" in Jewish?
> A: Trust me.
But I'm not Jewish. Doesn't it follow, then, that /I/ can be trusted?
Yes?
Maria Conlon
Advice from "Anonymous" in an email: "A woman has the last word in any
argument. Anything a man says after that is the beginning of a new
argument." It seems to me that this is something good to remember in
AUE.
tony cooper
wrote:
>Maria Conlon filted:
>>
>>FWIW, Steve, the meaning I use for "full of beans" is the "well,
>>healthy, active, cheerful one." (And the phrase "full of beans" is
>>especially useful to apply to very active, playful children.)
>>
>>The other meanings offered -- such as full of crap, etc. -- do not for
>>me work when "beans" is euphemistically used. And I doubt that I've ever
>>recognized a "full of beans" usage as being about "crap," etc. Most
>>people who mean "full of [something other than beans]" will use the
>>exact term. Otherwise, they may well be misunderstood. (Trust me on
>>this.)
>
>On 18 March 1963, and repeated tonight on TVLand, there was an episode of "The
>Andy Griffith Show" containing the following dialogue:
>
> Aunt Bee: "What's that sound?"
>
>Andy: "Probably just the Darlings." [a family of hill-folk given to playing
>bluegrass music]
>
>Aunt Bee: "Starlings? At *this* time of year? Oh, Andy, you're full of
>beans!"
If you would have posted this last week, I could have researched this
usage.
I just this morning returned from a week in Virginia near the North
Carolina border. One of the towns we went through on the way was Mt
Airy, North Carolina. As I'm sure you know, that was "Mayberry".
We walked by, but did not go into, seventyleven shops selling Andy
Griffith/Mayberry R.F.D. tat. There's even an Andy Griffith Museum.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Chuck Riggs
wrote:
Since I have only heard it from one man in County Mayo, I certainly
haven't either. This shows, again, the danger of relying on just one
data point. We have the meaning straight now, I believe, but I
apologize for leading the group astray, initially.
Chuck Riggs
If I can't, no one likes hearing a definition. This is the only place
I can get away with one.
Pat Durkin
news:5udah5l69jvuan4r9...@4ax.com...
Oh, but do we?
There appear to be two interpretations:
sprightly and hogwash.
Both appear to have their adherents.
CDB
an avoidance of "full of crap", but there is a semantic link that can
be appealed to: getting frisky with the truth.
Chuck Riggs
If there are still two possibilities for "full of beans", sprightly
and hogwash, I'm undecided. I was introduced to the hogwash meaning,
but our cook just assured me it means sprightly. I am beginning to
think I misunderstood my friend years ago, our cook is so certain.
Lars Eighner
lovely and talented Chuck Riggs broadcast on alt.usage.english:
> If there are still two possibilities for "full of beans", sprightly
> and hogwash, I'm undecided. I was introduced to the hogwash meaning,
> but our cook just assured me it means sprightly. I am beginning to
> think I misunderstood my friend years ago, our cook is so certain.
I've been following this thread from a distance. I take it "spritely" is
the current shorthand for what I would defined as energetic in a not
particularly constructive or well directed way. This indeed is consistent
with my earliest recollections of the expression. I think the latter sense
was a result of mistaking the expression for a euphemism --- or perhaps a
deliberate misappropriation.
This has set me to thinking that there might be a fairly interesting study
of expressions that were once innocent (or more innocent) but now are
commonly thought to have sexual or scatological origins.
One example is the word "sucker" in the sense of an easy mark, a person who
can easily be swindled or fooled. Nowadays I suppose many people just
assume the origin of the expression is todays common sexual insults. I am
not sure that is so. I know when I first heard the expression "hat trick," I
thought it referred to another trick that a (young) man can perform with a
hat. There must be many more of these, at least some of which are likely to
involve innocent and independent origins.
--
Lars Eighner <http://larseighner.com/> Warbama's Afghaninam day: 0
18.3 hours since Warbama declared Viet Nam II.
Warbama: An LBJ for the Twenty-First century. No hope. No change.
R H Draney
>
>This has set me to thinking that there might be a fairly interesting study
>of expressions that were once innocent (or more innocent) but now are
>commonly thought to have sexual or scatological origins.
>
>One example is the word "sucker" in the sense of an easy mark, a person who
>can easily be swindled or fooled. Nowadays I suppose many people just
>assume the origin of the expression is todays common sexual insults. I am
>not sure that is so. I know when I first heard the expression "hat trick," I
>thought it referred to another trick that a (young) man can perform with a
>hat. There must be many more of these, at least some of which are likely to
>involve innocent and independent origins.
A fellow I used to work with once gave indications that he thought "going
belly-up" referred to being sexually submissive....r
James Silverton
> Lars Eighner filted:
>>
>> This has set me to thinking that there might be a fairly
>> interesting study of expressions that were once innocent (or
>> more innocent) but now are commonly thought to have sexual or
>> scatological origins.
>>
>> One example is the word "sucker" in the sense of an easy
>> mark, a person who can easily be swindled or fooled.
>> Nowadays I suppose many people just assume the origin of the
>> expression is todays common sexual insults. I am not sure
>> that is so. I know when I first heard the expression "hat
>> trick," I thought it referred to another trick that a (young)
>> man can perform with a hat. There must be many more of
>> these, at least some of which are likely to involve innocent
>> and independent origins.
> A fellow I used to work with once gave indications that he
> thought "going belly-up" referred to being sexually
> submissive....r
I think the OED is correct. "In or into a position with the belly or
underside facing upwards; spec. (esp. of a fish) in or into this
position as the result of dying." However, lying on the back with the
belly exposed is a generally (not sexually) submissive attitude in dogs.
--
James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland
Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not
Maria Conlon
> [.....] I know when I first heard the expression "hat trick," I
> thought it referred to another trick that a (young) man can perform
> with a
> hat. There must be many more of these, at least some of which are
> likely to
> involve innocent and independent origins.
So, you weren't a hockey fan, Lars?
Maria Conlon
Go Wings!
Robert Bannister
> In our last episode, <2p2dh5p6fnbah4kji...@4ax.com>, the
> lovely and talented Chuck Riggs broadcast on alt.usage.english:
>
>> If there are still two possibilities for "full of beans", sprightly
>> and hogwash, I'm undecided. I was introduced to the hogwash meaning,
>> but our cook just assured me it means sprightly. I am beginning to
>> think I misunderstood my friend years ago, our cook is so certain.
>
> I've been following this thread from a distance. I take it "spritely" is
> the current shorthand for what I would defined as energetic in a not
> particularly constructive or well directed way. This indeed is consistent
> with my earliest recollections of the expression. I think the latter sense
> was a result of mistaking the expression for a euphemism --- or perhaps a
> deliberate misappropriation.
However, I don't think the real origin of the phrase has been
established. Many of us thought it had something to do with Mexican
jumping beans, so that full of beans meant you were jumping out of your
skin with energy.
>
> This has set me to thinking that there might be a fairly interesting study
> of expressions that were once innocent (or more innocent) but now are
> commonly thought to have sexual or scatological origins.
>
> One example is the word "sucker" in the sense of an easy mark, a person who
> can easily be swindled or fooled. Nowadays I suppose many people just
> assume the origin of the expression is todays common sexual insults. I am
> not sure that is so.
Very true. We had this discussion about "suck" not so long ago. I wasn't
convinced at first, but after thinking it over, it does seem likely.
I know when I first heard the expression "hat trick," I
> thought it referred to another trick that a (young) man can perform with a
> hat. There must be many more of these, at least some of which are likely to
> involve innocent and independent origins.
>
On the other hand, there are expressions used by a lot of people who
would not voluntarily refer to anything off-colour that surely must have
sexual origins like "jerk". Then there are the drug-related words like
"dope".
--
Rob Bannister
Donna Richoux
> One example is the word "sucker" in the sense of an easy mark, a person who
> can easily be swindled or fooled. Nowadays I suppose many people just
> assume the origin of the expression is todays common sexual insults. I am
> not sure that is so.
Not at all. 19th century. A sucker was a kind of fish that was easily
caught.
Webster's 1913:
7. (Zo�l.) (a) Any one of numerous species of North American fresh-water
cyprinoid fishes of the family Catostomid�; so called because the lips
are protrusile. The flesh is coarse, and they are of little value as
food. The most common species of the Eastern United States are the
northern sucker the white sucker (C. teres), the hog sucker and the
chub, or sweet sucker Some of the large Western species are called
buffalo fish, red horse, black horse, and suckerel.
I don't have citations at my fingertips that show the caught = fooled
connection, but I can find them if need be.
--
Best -- Donna Richoux
Evan Kirshenbaum
That doesn't seem to be the contemporaneous etymology, at least with
respect to the "native of Illinois" sense:
6. A nickname applied throughout the West to a native of Illinois.
The origin of this term is as follows:
The Western prairies are, in many places, full of the holes made
by the crawfish, which descends to the water beneath. In early
times, when travellers wended their way over these immense
plains, they very prudently provided themselves with a long
hollow weed, and when thirsty, thrust it into these natural
artesians, and thus easily supplied their longings. The
crawfish well generally contains pure water, and the manner in
which the traveller drew forth the refreshing element gave him
the name of "Sucker."--_Lett. from Illinois, in Providence
Journal_.
John Russell Bartlett, _Dictionary of
Americanisms_, 2e, 1859
He also gives a sense (number 3) of "a greenhorn; an ignorant clown",
as well as "a tube used for sucking sherry cobblers" ("they are made
of silver, glass, straw, or sticks of maccaroni"), the fish, a hard
drinker, and "a mean, low fellow; a sponger". (The first edition
(1848) has the same definition, but puts quotes around "crawfish" and
adds a gloss of "a fresh water shell-fish similar in form to the
lobster. It doesn't have the "mean, low fellow" sense.)
My impression is that the "easily fooled" sense came from the image of
the backwoods Illinoisan in the big city.
On the other hand, I see another source from the same time that
credits the nickname to the fish, but not due to its being easily
caught:
In 1824, the lead mines near Galena began to be worked to
advantage, and thousands of persons from Southern Illinois and
Missouri swarmed thither. The Illinoisans ran up the river in the
spring, worked in the mines during the summer, and returned to
their homes down the river in the autumn,--thus resembling in
their migrations the fish so common in the Western waters, called
the Sucker. It was also bserved that great hordes of uncouth
ruffians came up to the mines from Missouri, and it was therefore
said that she had vomited forth all her worst population.
Thenceforth the Missourians were called "Pukes," and the people of
Illinois "Suckers."
_The Atlantic Monthly_, May, 1861
An earlier source concurs:
So called after the fish of that name, from his going up the river
to the mines, and returning at the season when the sucker makes
its migrations.
_A Winter in the West_, 1835
I first see "Sucker" paired with "Illinois" in 1834, "as the frontier
inhabitants of Missouri term their neighbors of the opposite State",
so the latter theory may well have some credence.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |Pious Jews have a category of
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |questions that can harmlessly be
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |allowed to go without an answer
|until the Messiah comes. I suspect
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com |that this is one of them.
(650)857-7572 | Joseph C. Fineman
Stan Brown
@earthlink.net>:
> If you would have posted this last week, I could have researched this
> usage.
"would have posted"? The horror, the horror!
--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com
Shikata ga nai...
Steve Hayes
I knew only the "sprightly" version until you mentioned the other one here,
but it seems that both are in dictionaries.
I had a look at mine (Collins) and it has 8a (Informal) full of energy and
vitality 8b (US) mistaken, erroneous.
Yet Maria Conlon said she knew only the first meaning, so perhaps it's a
regional thing.
Incidentally, while looking it up I came across another thing I hadn't known
before -- that "bean curd" is another name for "tofu".
I don't think I've ever enountered either in the flesh, as it were, but I have
seen tofu mentioned in newsgroups. "Bean curd", however, I knew only from the
writings of Chairman Mao, who was fond of saying that US imperialism was a
bean curd tiger. It strikes me that "tofu tiger" would be more alliterative.