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Antonio

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Sep 11, 2009, 4:39:42 AM9/11/09
to
Recently I have made a huge mistake: "...you was born...".
Now I'm giving a look at Google books, and what do I find? a number (930) of
recurrences of this wrong form.

Could you explain it to me?


James Hogg

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Sep 11, 2009, 4:48:45 AM9/11/09
to
Quoth "Antonio" <n...@spam.it>, and I quote:

I think you will find that almost all the examples are in quoted
speech, reflecting non-standard or dialectal usage. Lots of
people say "you was", but you shouldn't copy them.

A few of the examples may be correct English if you look at the
full context, e.g.

"she wanted to know if any of you was born outside the Two
Rivers"

Here the subject is "any of you", so the "was" is correct".

--
James

Leslie Danks

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Sep 11, 2009, 5:02:59 AM9/11/09
to
Antonio wrote:

Many people say "you was born", either because it is part of the dialect
they speak or because the speak improperly. If you look more closely at
the hits you found, you will certainly find that most of them involve
reported speech--in other words the author is recording what a character
in the book actually said. Other hits may be for authors attempting to
make a point or to demonstrate some kind of perceived authenticity.

How many hits do you get for "you were born"?

--
Les (BrE)

Bob Martin

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Sep 11, 2009, 7:35:22 AM9/11/09
to
in 265718 20090911 094845 James Hogg <Jas....@gOUTmail.com> wrote:

>Here the subject is "any of you", so the "was" is correct".

Not to me it isn't!

Don Phillipson

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Sep 11, 2009, 7:49:09 AM9/11/09
to
"Antonio" <n...@spam.it> wrote in message
news:4aaa0cd2$0$1101$4faf...@reader3.news.tin.it...

> Recently I have made a huge mistake: "...you was born...".
> Now I'm giving a look at Google books, and what do I find? a number (930)
of
> recurrences of this wrong form.

You have to consider the dates of these citations (and
Google Books has bad errors. It was called a "Disaster
for Scholars" by Geoffrey Nunberg in The Chronicle of
Higher Education August 31, 2009.)

Quite simply:
1. "You was born" was acceptable grammar (spoken
or written) from the Tudor to the Georgian period.
2. "You were . . . " became the norm in the 19th
century and is now the only correct form.

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

James Hogg

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Sep 11, 2009, 9:10:20 AM9/11/09
to
Quoth Bob Martin <bob.m...@excite.com>, and I quote:

>in 265718 20090911 094845 James Hogg <Jas....@gOUTmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Here the subject is "any of you", so the "was" is correct".
>
>Not to me it isn't!

The word "any" can be singular. Here are examples from the Bible
(NIV):

"If any of you has a dispute with another"

"If any of you has a sheep and it falls into a pit on the
Sabbath"

--
James

Athel Cornish-Bowden

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Sep 11, 2009, 10:24:29 AM9/11/09
to

In any case, your point could be made with "one of you" instead of "any
of you": I doubt if anyone would argue that that would take a plural
verb.

--
athel

Jerry Friedman

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Sep 11, 2009, 1:42:43 PM9/11/09
to

Reading the book wouldn't be, though. Experto crede.

--
Jerry Friedman

James Hogg

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Sep 11, 2009, 2:28:33 PM9/11/09
to
Quoth Jerry Friedman <jerry_f...@yahoo.com>, and I quote:

Do you know this from personal experience, i.e. have you read it?
There's little risk of my reading this series when I haven't even
started on Discworld.

--
James

Roland Hutchinson

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Sep 11, 2009, 3:45:47 PM9/11/09
to

Doncha just hate when that happens?

--
Roland Hutchinson

He calls himself "the Garden State's leading violist da gamba,"
... comparable to being ruler of an exceptionally small duchy.
--Newark (NJ) Star Ledger ( http://tinyurl.com/RolandIsNJ )

Jerry Friedman

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Sep 11, 2009, 3:50:05 PM9/11/09
to
On Sep 11, 12:28 pm, James Hogg <Jas.H...@gOUTmail.com> wrote:
> Quoth Jerry Friedman <jerry_fried...@yahoo.com>, and I quote:

>
>
>
> >On Sep 11, 2:48 am, James Hogg <Jas.H...@gOUTmail.com> wrote:
> >> Quoth "Antonio" <n...@spam.it>, and I quote:
>
> >> >Recently I have made a huge mistake: "...you was born...".
> >> >Now I'm giving a look at Google books, and what do I find? a number (930) of
> >> >recurrences of this wrong form.
>
> >> >Could you explain it to me?
>
> >> I think you will find that almost all the examples are in quoted
> >> speech, reflecting non-standard or dialectal usage. Lots of
> >> people say "you was", but you shouldn't copy them.
>
> >> A few of the examples may be correct English if you look at the
> >> full context, e.g.
>
> >> "she wanted to know if any of you was born outside the Two
> >> Rivers"
>
> >> Here the subject is "any of you", so the "was" is correct".
>
> >Reading the book wouldn't be, though.  Experto crede.
>
> Do you know this from personal experience, i.e. have you read it?

Yes, I read more of them than I should have before realizing they were
No Fun Any More.

> There's little risk of my reading this series when I haven't even
> started on Discworld.

Well, I like Discworld. It's sort of the opposite the Wheel of Time,
fortunately. Except that both authors are (or were) bound by whatever
contract makes people write at least five scenes from different points
of view in each chapter.

--
Jerry Friedman

Wood Avens

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Sep 11, 2009, 3:57:06 PM9/11/09
to
On Fri, 11 Sep 2009 19:45:47 +0000 (UTC), Roland Hutchinson
<my.sp...@verizon.net> wrote:

>On Fri, 11 Sep 2009 15:10:20 +0200, James Hogg wrote:
>
>> Quoth Bob Martin <bob.m...@excite.com>, and I quote:
>>
>>>in 265718 20090911 094845 James Hogg <Jas....@gOUTmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Here the subject is "any of you", so the "was" is correct".
>>>
>>>Not to me it isn't!
>>
>> The word "any" can be singular. Here are examples from the Bible (NIV):
>>
>> "If any of you has a dispute with another"
>>
>> "If any of you has a sheep and it falls into a pit on the Sabbath"
>
>Doncha just hate when that happens?

I haad a pit all ready, but no SDC, no sheep.

--

Katy Jennison

spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @

R H Draney

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Sep 11, 2009, 4:20:19 PM9/11/09
to
Athel Cornish-Bowden filted:

Less contentious: a statement like "the person who held that job before you was
born outside this country, so Homeland Security made us dismiss him" would
generate a hit on the subject-line phrase....r


--
A pessimist sees the glass as half empty.
An optometrist asks whether you see the glass
more full like this?...or like this?

Adam Funk

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Sep 11, 2009, 4:33:00 PM9/11/09
to
On 2009-09-11, Roland Hutchinson wrote:

>> "If any of you has a sheep and it falls into a pit on the Sabbath"
>
> Doncha just hate when that happens?


Your sheep feels a breeze.

> 13

Your sheep fell in a pit! Game over.


--
I worry that 10 or 15 years from now, [my daughter] will come to me
and say 'Daddy, where were you when they took freedom of the press
away from the Internet?' [Mike Godwin, EFF http://www.eff.org/ ]

Jeffrey Turner

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Sep 11, 2009, 9:56:27 PM9/11/09
to
James Hogg wrote:

>
> "she wanted to know if any of you was born outside the Two
> Rivers"
>
> Here the subject is "any of you", so the "was" is correct".

Unless the mother of the person you're asking was in motion at the
time, it's a very odd question. Generally, I'd expect "were" in
that sentence.

--Jeff

--
The comfort of the wealthy has always
depended upon an abundant supply of
the poor. --Voltaire

Maria Conlon

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Sep 12, 2009, 1:50:24 AM9/12/09
to
Wood Avens wrote:
>
> I haad a pit all ready, but no SDC, no sheep.

Katy, that "haad" made me immediately /hear/ those sheep. Good
onomatopoeia. (Your spelling of that word may vary.)

--
Maria Conlon

James Hogg

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Sep 12, 2009, 5:29:06 AM9/12/09
to
Quoth Jerry Friedman <jerry_f...@yahoo.com>, and I quote:

I get enough fantasy by reading certain newsgroup contributors.

--
James

Mark Brader

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Sep 12, 2009, 2:29:09 PM9/12/09
to
Don Phillipson:

> You have to consider the dates of these citations (and
> Google Books has bad errors. It was called a "Disaster
> for Scholars" by Geoffrey Nunberg in The Chronicle of
> Higher Education August 31, 2009.)

Yep. Here's Nunberg's article (which I found, of course, using
Google; I don't know how long it will remain freely available):

http://chronicle.com/article/Googles-Book-Search-A/48245/
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "If you want a 20th century solution, the
m...@vex.net | obvious answer is helicopters!" -- Bob Scheurle

aquachimp

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Sep 12, 2009, 2:53:17 PM9/12/09
to

Strangely "you woz born" (with quotation marks) returned only 11
occurrences.


Amethyst Deceiver

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Sep 15, 2009, 3:48:07 AM9/15/09
to
In article <nb5la5poj7ar66bk1...@4ax.com>,
Jas....@gOUTmail.com says...

> Do you know this from personal experience, i.e. have you read it?
> There's little risk of my reading this series when I haven't even
> started on Discworld.

If you find you want to read Discworld, start with Wyrd Sisters. Macbeth
from the viewpoint of the witches.

--
Linz
Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford
My accent may vary

Wood Avens

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Sep 15, 2009, 6:17:57 AM9/15/09
to
On Tue, 15 Sep 2009 08:48:07 +0100, Amethyst Deceiver
<sp...@lindsayendell.co.uk> wrote:

>In article <nb5la5poj7ar66bk1...@4ax.com>,
>Jas....@gOUTmail.com says...
>
>> Do you know this from personal experience, i.e. have you read it?
>> There's little risk of my reading this series when I haven't even
>> started on Discworld.
>
>If you find you want to read Discworld, start with Wyrd Sisters. Macbeth
>from the viewpoint of the witches.

I reckon, purely on the impression I've gained of James since he's
been here, that either The Truth or Thief of Time would suit him well.
Or maybe Going Postal. I'd move him on to earlier ones once I'd got
him hooked.

JimboCat

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Sep 15, 2009, 2:43:28 PM9/15/09
to
On Sep 15, 6:17 am, Wood Avens <woodav...@askjennison.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Sep 2009 08:48:07 +0100, Amethyst Deceiver
>
> <s...@lindsayendell.co.uk> wrote:
> >In article <nb5la5poj7ar66bk1s04sfie2nv6r03...@4ax.com>,
> >Jas.H...@gOUTmail.com says...

>
> >> Do you know this from personal experience, i.e. have you read it?
> >> There's little risk of my reading this series when I haven't even
> >> started on Discworld.
>
> >If you find you want to read Discworld, start with Wyrd Sisters. Macbeth
> >from the viewpoint of the witches.
>
> I reckon, purely on the impression I've gained of James since he's
> been here, that either The Truth or Thief of Time would suit him well.
> Or maybe Going Postal.  I'd move him on to earlier ones once I'd got
> him hooked.

My favorite is /Small Gods/ and I recommend this as a starter because
it isn't very connected to any other book in the series.

But my second favorite is, indeed, /Wyrd Sisters/. It has my favorite
quote from all of pterry, his reworking of the comic doorward scene:

"There is a knocking without!"
"A knocking without? Without what?"
"Without the door!"
"A knocking without a door? Is this some kind of Zen thing?"

Jim Deutch (JimboCat)
--
Fabricati diem, pvnk! - Terry Pratchet

Default User

unread,
Sep 15, 2009, 3:46:15 PM9/15/09
to
Amethyst Deceiver wrote:

> In article <nb5la5poj7ar66bk1...@4ax.com>,
> Jas....@gOUTmail.com says...
>
> > Do you know this from personal experience, i.e. have you read it?
> > There's little risk of my reading this series when I haven't even
> > started on Discworld.
>
> If you find you want to read Discworld, start with Wyrd Sisters.
> Macbeth from the viewpoint of the witches.

I'm not particularly a fan of the Witches portion of the Discworld
books, so I'd suggest starting with Guards! Guards! or Soul Music (even
though that's third in the Death sequence, it's the first of the Susan
books. The others can be read later as prequels).

Brian

--
Day 225 of the "no grouchy usenet posts" project

R H Draney

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Sep 15, 2009, 8:47:09 PM9/15/09
to
Default User filted:

Someone needs to put out "Pratchett for Dummes", I think....r

James Hogg

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Sep 16, 2009, 2:15:05 AM9/16/09
to
Quoth R H Draney <dado...@spamcop.net>, and I quote:

>Default User filted:
>>
>>Amethyst Deceiver wrote:
>>
>>> In article <nb5la5poj7ar66bk1...@4ax.com>,
>>> Jas....@gOUTmail.com says...
>>>
>>> > Do you know this from personal experience, i.e. have you read it?
>>> > There's little risk of my reading this series when I haven't even
>>> > started on Discworld.
>>>
>>> If you find you want to read Discworld, start with Wyrd Sisters.
>>> Macbeth from the viewpoint of the witches.
>>
>>I'm not particularly a fan of the Witches portion of the Discworld
>>books, so I'd suggest starting with Guards! Guards! or Soul Music (even
>>though that's third in the Death sequence, it's the first of the Susan
>>books. The others can be read later as prequels).
>
>Someone needs to put out "Pratchett for Dummes", I think....r

"Pratchett f�r Dummes Volk" like me?

--
James

R H Draney

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Sep 16, 2009, 3:05:40 AM9/16/09
to
James Hogg filted:

Someone needs to defragment one's keyboard, too....r

Message has been deleted

Amethyst Deceiver

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Sep 16, 2009, 10:48:05 AM9/16/09
to
In article <k7qua5dmdhnm7b40n...@4ax.com>,
wood...@askjennison.com says...

This is a good point. Going Postal, then.

R H Draney

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Sep 16, 2009, 1:00:09 PM9/16/09
to
Roger Burton West filted:

>
>R H Draney wrote:
>
>>Someone needs to put out "Pratchett for Dummes", I think....r
>
>Perhaps something like
>http://www.lspace.org/books/reading-order-guides/index.html ?

The search for a ridiculous concept not yet covered on the Internet
continues....r

LFS

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Sep 16, 2009, 1:17:24 PM9/16/09
to
R H Draney wrote:
> Roger Burton West filted:
>> R H Draney wrote:
>>
>>> Someone needs to put out "Pratchett for Dummes", I think....r
>> Perhaps something like
>> http://www.lspace.org/books/reading-order-guides/index.html ?
>
> The search for a ridiculous concept not yet covered on the Internet
> continues....r
>
>

What's ridiculous about the idea of guidance for the order of reading an
extensive oeuvre? I think it's quite helpful.

I was given Wyrd Sisters by a devoted Pratchett fan, the same person who
introduced me to aue. The introduction to aue was, in the long run, more
successful. I loved WS which made me laugh out loud, but I have never
been as enamoured of any of TP's other books that I've tried.

--
Laura
(emulate St. George for email)

R H Draney

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Sep 16, 2009, 2:07:50 PM9/16/09
to
LFS filted:

Is there any other series where reading a series of books in order of
publication is considered an inferior approach?...r

LFS

unread,
Sep 16, 2009, 2:49:12 PM9/16/09
to
R H Draney wrote:
> LFS filted:
>> R H Draney wrote:
>>> Roger Burton West filted:
>>>> R H Draney wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Someone needs to put out "Pratchett for Dummes", I think....r
>>>> Perhaps something like
>>>> http://www.lspace.org/books/reading-order-guides/index.html ?
>>> The search for a ridiculous concept not yet covered on the Internet
>>> continues....r
>>>
>>>
>> What's ridiculous about the idea of guidance for the order of reading an
>> extensive oeuvre? I think it's quite helpful.
>>
>> I was given Wyrd Sisters by a devoted Pratchett fan, the same person who
>> introduced me to aue. The introduction to aue was, in the long run, more
>> successful. I loved WS which made me laugh out loud, but I have never
>> been as enamoured of any of TP's other books that I've tried.
>
> Is there any other series where reading a series of books in order of
> publication is considered an inferior approach?...r
>
>

The Chronicles of Narnia? I'm sure there must be other series where the
books have not been published in chronological order of story but where
might be preferable to read them in that order.

I have never got on with Tolkien but I see that there is a
recommendation here of possibly reading out of order:
http://tolkien.slimy.com/publist.html

Even where a series of books stand alone one might find that later books
are better than earlier ones as the author gets into his/her stride. The
books of Carol O'Connell would come into this category for me: her
heroine develops in character over several books and I think the later
books featuring her are better.

Robin Bignall

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Sep 16, 2009, 4:23:25 PM9/16/09
to
On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 15:48:05 +0100, Amethyst Deceiver
<sp...@lindsayendell.co.uk> wrote:

>In article <k7qua5dmdhnm7b40n...@4ax.com>,
>wood...@askjennison.com says...
>>
>> On Tue, 15 Sep 2009 08:48:07 +0100, Amethyst Deceiver
>> <sp...@lindsayendell.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> >In article <nb5la5poj7ar66bk1...@4ax.com>,
>> >Jas....@gOUTmail.com says...
>> >
>> >> Do you know this from personal experience, i.e. have you read it?
>> >> There's little risk of my reading this series when I haven't even
>> >> started on Discworld.
>> >
>> >If you find you want to read Discworld, start with Wyrd Sisters. Macbeth
>> >from the viewpoint of the witches.
>>
>> I reckon, purely on the impression I've gained of James since he's
>> been here, that either The Truth or Thief of Time would suit him well.
>> Or maybe Going Postal. I'd move him on to earlier ones once I'd got
>> him hooked.
>
>This is a good point. Going Postal, then.

This is a bad time to go postal. Half of the buggers are on strike.
--
Robin
(BrE)
Herts, England

Steve Hayes

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Sep 17, 2009, 1:44:02 AM9/17/09
to
On 16 Sep 2009 11:07:50 -0700, R H Draney <dado...@spamcop.net> wrote:

>Is there any other series where reading a series of books in order of
>publication is considered an inferior approach?...r

The publishers of C.S. Lewis's Narnia stories are trying very hard to promote
the idea that it is inferior.


--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

Wood Avens

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Sep 17, 2009, 8:45:46 AM9/17/09
to
On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 15:48:05 +0100, Amethyst Deceiver
<sp...@lindsayendell.co.uk> wrote:

>In article <k7qua5dmdhnm7b40n...@4ax.com>,
>wood...@askjennison.com says...
>>

>> I reckon, purely on the impression I've gained of James since he's
>> been here, that either The Truth or Thief of Time would suit him well.
>> Or maybe Going Postal. I'd move him on to earlier ones once I'd got
>> him hooked.
>
>This is a good point. Going Postal, then.

Right.

James, we opine that your universe would be improved by an
acquaintance with Moist van Lipwig and Lord Vetinari. Try your local
library. You'll thank us later.

James Hogg

unread,
Sep 17, 2009, 8:53:41 AM9/17/09
to
Quoth Wood Avens <wood...@askjennison.com>, and I quote:

>On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 15:48:05 +0100, Amethyst Deceiver
><sp...@lindsayendell.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>In article <k7qua5dmdhnm7b40n...@4ax.com>,
>>wood...@askjennison.com says...
>>>
>
>>> I reckon, purely on the impression I've gained of James since he's
>>> been here, that either The Truth or Thief of Time would suit him well.
>>> Or maybe Going Postal. I'd move him on to earlier ones once I'd got
>>> him hooked.
>>
>>This is a good point. Going Postal, then.
>
>Right.
>
>James, we opine that your universe would be improved by an
>acquaintance with Moist van Lipwig and Lord Vetinari. Try your local
>library. You'll thank us later.

I'll thank you now for the tip.

--
James

Wood Avens

unread,
Sep 17, 2009, 9:31:18 AM9/17/09
to
On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 14:53:41 +0200, James Hogg <Jas....@gOUTmail.com>
wrote:

Please report your impression in due course. (I'm almost tempted to
suggest "in the style of Marius Hancu", but that might be construed as
a criticism of Marius, whose questions I usually find interesting,
frequently challenging and often educational. I'll leave the
temptation on the table, then.)

Jerry Friedman

unread,
Sep 17, 2009, 9:36:14 AM9/17/09
to
On Sep 16, 12:49 pm, LFS <la...@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote:
> R H Draney wrote:
> > LFS filted:
> >> R H Draney wrote:
> >>> Roger Burton West filted:
> >>>> R H Draney wrote:
>
> >>>>> Someone needs to put out "Pratchett for Dummes", I think....r
> >>>> Perhaps something like
> >>>>http://www.lspace.org/books/reading-order-guides/index.html?
> >>> The search for a ridiculous concept not yet covered on the Internet
> >>> continues....r
>
> >> What's ridiculous about the idea of guidance for the order of reading an
> >> extensive oeuvre? I think it's quite helpful.
>
> >> I was given Wyrd Sisters by a devoted Pratchett fan, the same person who
> >> introduced me to aue. The introduction to aue was, in the long run, more
> >> successful. I loved WS which made me laugh out loud, but I have never
> >> been as enamoured of any of TP's other books that I've tried.
>
> > Is there any other series where reading a series of books in order of
> > publication is considered an inferior approach?...r

I was discussing James Branch Cabell recently with some sci.langers.
He had his "Life of Manuel" series (18 volumes) republished in a
canonical order that wasn't the publication order.

> The Chronicles of Narnia?

Not if you ask me.

> I'm sure there must be other series where the
> books have not been published in chronological order of story but where
> might be preferable to read them in that order.
>
> I have never got on with Tolkien but I see that there is a
> recommendation here of possibly reading out of order:http://tolkien.slimy.com/publist.html

I certainly agree that adults who don't like children's books
shouldn't start with /The Hobbit/.

(What does Firefox think is wrong with "children's"?)

> Even where a series of books stand alone one might find that later books
> are better than earlier ones as the author gets into his/her stride.

...

Indeed. To my taste, the first two books in Steven Brust's series
about Vlad Taltos aren't nearly as good as some of the others. For
people who would agree with me and be put off, the best place to start
might be /Taltos/ (fourth in publication order, first in story order)
or /Dragon/ (eighth in publication order, mostly second in story
order, one of the two or three best).

Heck, I'd recommend starting the Nero Wolfe books with anything but
the clumsy /Fer-de-Lance/ (or the Zeck books). And I read a number of
them perfectly happily without knowing why Lily Rowan calls Archie
Goodwin "Escamillo" (referring to an incident in /Some Buried Caesar/,
the second book, I think).

--
Jerry Friedman

R H Draney

unread,
Sep 17, 2009, 11:12:01 AM9/17/09
to
Steve Hayes filted:

>
>On 16 Sep 2009 11:07:50 -0700, R H Draney <dado...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>
>>Is there any other series where reading a series of books in order of
>>publication is considered an inferior approach?...r
>
>The publishers of C.S. Lewis's Narnia stories are trying very hard to promote
>the idea that it is inferior.

I was aware that the example you mention is a matter of some controversy....

In other media, try using the phrase "the first film" around Star Wars
geeks....r

Evan Kirshenbaum

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Sep 17, 2009, 11:16:54 AM9/17/09
to
R H Draney <dado...@spamcop.net> writes:

> LFS filted:


>>
>>What's ridiculous about the idea of guidance for the order of
>>reading an extensive oeuvre? I think it's quite helpful.
>>
>>I was given Wyrd Sisters by a devoted Pratchett fan, the same person
>>who introduced me to aue. The introduction to aue was, in the long
>>run, more successful. I loved WS which made me laugh out loud, but I
>>have never been as enamoured of any of TP's other books that I've
>>tried.
>
> Is there any other series where reading a series of books in order
> of publication is considered an inferior approach?...r

The question is whether these books constitute "a series". Rather,
there appear to be several series (and a few standalone books) all set
on the same planet (much as many other writers have been known to set
more than one series on Earth), with primary characters from one
series often showing up as minor characters in another, and two
characters (Death and the Librarian) making at least a token
appearance in every book.

I read them in publication order, largely because I read them as they
were published, and I suspect that that's the best way to watch the
world develop and to make sure that you understand references to
things established in prior books, but I could see somebody deciding
to read the books about Death and his family (#s 4, 10, 16, 24, and
30) or just wanting to know which book is most directly a sequel to
the one they just enjoyed.

--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |It's not coherent, it's merely
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |focused.
Palo Alto, CA 94304 | Keith Moore

kirsh...@hpl.hp.com
(650)857-7572

http://www.kirshenbaum.net/


Jerry Friedman

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Sep 17, 2009, 1:24:02 PM9/17/09
to
On Sep 17, 9:16 am, Evan Kirshenbaum <kirshenb...@hpl.hp.com> wrote:

> R H Draney <dadoc...@spamcop.net> writes:
>
> > LFS filted:
>
> >>What's ridiculous about the idea of guidance for the order of
> >>reading an extensive oeuvre? I think it's quite helpful.
>
> >>I was given Wyrd Sisters by a devoted Pratchett fan, the same person
> >>who introduced me to aue. The introduction to aue was, in the long
> >>run, more successful. I loved WS which made me laugh out loud, but I
> >>have never been as enamoured of any of TP's other books that I've
> >>tried.
>
> > Is there any other series where reading a series of books in order
> > of publication is considered an inferior approach?...r
>
> The question is whether these books constitute "a series".  Rather,
> there appear to be several series (and a few standalone books) all set
> on the same planet (much as many other writers have been known to set
> more than one series on Earth), with primary characters from one
> series often showing up as minor characters in another, and two
> characters (Death and the Librarian)

Is anyone else hearing Schubert?

> making at least a token appearance in every book.

I hadn't realized that.

> I read them in publication order, largely because I read them as they
> were published, and I suspect that that's the best way to watch the
> world develop and to make sure that you understand references to
> things established in prior books, but I could see somebody deciding
> to read the books about Death and his family (#s 4, 10, 16, 24, and
> 30) or just wanting to know which book is most directly a sequel to
> the one they just enjoyed.

The only reason not to read them in publication order is that /The
Colour of Magic/ is so boring. In my opinion, that is. If I'd
started there, I wouldn't have continued.

--
Jerry Friedman

Evan Kirshenbaum

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Sep 17, 2009, 1:34:52 PM9/17/09
to
Jerry Friedman <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> writes:

> The only reason not to read them in publication order is that /The
> Colour of Magic/ is so boring. In my opinion, that is. If I'd
> started there, I wouldn't have continued.

I've seen Pratchett himself describe it as "before I discovered the
wonders of 'plot'". Of course, you can't really start with _The Light
Fantastic_, either, as that's really just the second half of _The
Colour of Magic_. I enjoyed them when they came our, but I'm not sure
I could go back and read them again. _Equal Rites_ is where the
series really established itself.

But the other reason not to read them in publication order is that
somebody's just told you that they think you'd really like enjoy,
e.g., _Night Watch_. And then they tell you that it's the 28th book
in the series! It's a little less daunting to be told that there are
really only six books that directly lead into it.

--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |Other computer companies have spent
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |15 years working on fault-tolerant
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |computers. Microsoft has spent
|its time more fruitfully, working
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com |on fault-tolerant *users*.
(650)857-7572

http://www.kirshenbaum.net/


Wood Avens

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Sep 17, 2009, 1:35:27 PM9/17/09
to
On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 08:16:54 -0700, Evan Kirshenbaum
<kirsh...@hpl.hp.com> wrote:

>The question is whether these books constitute "a series". Rather,
>there appear to be several series (and a few standalone books) all set
>on the same planet (much as many other writers have been known to set
>more than one series on Earth), with primary characters from one
>series often showing up as minor characters in another, and two
>characters (Death and the Librarian) making at least a token
>appearance in every book.

Erm, not as such they don't, not unless "The Wee Free Men" series
doesn't count.

Evan Kirshenbaum

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Sep 17, 2009, 1:51:34 PM9/17/09
to
Wood Avens <wood...@askjennison.com> writes:

> On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 08:16:54 -0700, Evan Kirshenbaum
> <kirsh...@hpl.hp.com> wrote:
>
>>The question is whether these books constitute "a series". Rather,
>>there appear to be several series (and a few standalone books) all
>>set on the same planet (much as many other writers have been known
>>to set more than one series on Earth), with primary characters from
>>one series often showing up as minor characters in another, and two
>>characters (Death and the Librarian) making at least a token
>>appearance in every book.
>
> Erm, not as such they don't, not unless "The Wee Free Men" series
> doesn't count.

I'm not sure that it and the "Science of Discworld" series do. (The
Librarian is in those, but I don't believe Death is.) Looking at
_Making Money_, the "Wee Free Men" books are listed under "By Terry
Pratchett" rather than under "The Discworld Books", but I'm not sure
there's really a reason to do so other than that they (and _The
Amazing Maurice and His Educated Rodents_) were aimed at a younger
audience.

--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |Usenet is like Tetris for people
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |who still remember how to read.
Palo Alto, CA 94304

kirsh...@hpl.hp.com
(650)857-7572

http://www.kirshenbaum.net/


Peter Moylan

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Sep 17, 2009, 8:25:28 PM9/17/09
to
Wood Avens wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 08:16:54 -0700, Evan Kirshenbaum
> <kirsh...@hpl.hp.com> wrote:
>
>> The question is whether these books constitute "a series". Rather,
>> there appear to be several series (and a few standalone books) all set
>> on the same planet (much as many other writers have been known to set
>> more than one series on Earth), with primary characters from one
>> series often showing up as minor characters in another, and two
>> characters (Death and the Librarian) making at least a token
>> appearance in every book.
>
> Erm, not as such they don't, not unless "The Wee Free Men" series
> doesn't count.

I got a huge surprise when reading "The Wee Free Men". (One of his best
books, in my opinion.) For most of the book I was convinced that it was
set on Earth - specifically, in England - so it was a bit of a shock
when Granny Weatherwax turned up.

--
Peter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org
For an e-mail address, see my web page.

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