England, the s??? isle
Charles Self
What's that epithet? Thanks.
James Hogg
> ... or island.
> What's that epithet? Thanks.
This sceptred isle.
--
James
be...@eex.neet
from memory, it's 'Sceptered Isle'
kind regards
bill
Ildhund
> ... or island.
> What's that epithet? Thanks.
sceptred?
Rich. II Act II Sc. 1
"...
This royal throne of kings, this scepter'd isle,
This earth of majesty, this seat of Mars,
This other Eden, demi-paradise,
This fortress built by Nature for herself
Against infection and the hand of war,
This happy breed of men, this little world,
This precious stone set in the silver sea,
&c &c &c
--
Noel
Steve Hayes
wrote:
>... or island.
>What's that epithet? Thanks.
sceptr'd?
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
wrote:
Sometimes humorously modified to "septic isle" as for instance in the
book title _This Septic Isle: A Revised Dictionary for Modern Britain_
(by Mike Barfield).
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Garrett Wollman
Peter Duncanson (BrE) <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 23:26:09 +0100, James Hogg <Jas....@gOUTmail.com>
>wrote:
>>This sceptred isle.
>
>Sometimes humorously modified to "septic isle" as for instance in the
>book title _This Septic Isle: A Revised Dictionary for Modern Britain_
>(by Mike Barfield).
Also "secret isle" in reference to British officialdom's penchant for
official secrecy.
-GAWollman
--
Garrett A. Wollman | What intellectual phenomenon can be older, or more oft
wol...@bimajority.org| repeated, than the story of a large research program
Opinions not shared by| that impaled itself upon a false central assumption
my employers. | accepted by all practitioners? - S.J. Gould, 1993
Charles Self
> ... or island.
> What's that epithet? Thanks.
Great answers. Thanks guys.
Mike Lyle
> In article <rn7mg5h33u41m65qi...@4ax.com>,
> Peter Duncanson (BrE) <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>> On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 23:26:09 +0100, James Hogg
>> <Jas....@gOUTmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> This sceptred isle.
>>
>> Sometimes humorously modified to "septic isle" as for instance in the
>> book title _This Septic Isle: A Revised Dictionary for Modern
>> Britain_ (by Mike Barfield).
>
> Also "secret isle" in reference to British officialdom's penchant for
> official secrecy.
>
--
Mike.
Don Phillipson
news:hefgqj$ml2$2...@grapevine.csail.mit.edu...
> Also "secret isle" in reference to British officialdom's penchant for
> official secrecy.
But this is a knowing perversion from "sea-girt isle," endorsed
since Brewer's Phrase and Fable as an allusion to Shakespeare's
King John (This precious stone set in the silver sea . . . )
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)
Mark Brader
>>> This sceptred isle.
Peter Duncanson:
>> Sometimes humorously modified to "septic isle" ...
What, you mean it's been taken over by Americans? :-)
Garrett Wollman:
> Also "secret isle" in reference to British officialdom's penchant for
> official secrecy.
But that one's secret, innit? :-)
--
Mark Brader, Toronto "A secret proclamation? How unusual!"
m...@vex.net -- Arsenic and Old Lace
Steve Hayes
wrote:
>On Nov 23, 11:18�pm, Charles Self <karl.s...@gmx.net> wrote:
We may have discussed it before, but I'm still not clear on the difference
between an epithet and a sobriquet.
I tend to use them interchangeably.
Can anyone nuance it a bit?
John Varela
<haye...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 01:35:52 -0800 (PST), Charles Self <karl...@gmx.net>
> wrote:
>
> >On Nov 23, 11:18�pm, Charles Self <karl.s...@gmx.net> wrote:
> >> ... or island.
> >> What's that epithet? �Thanks.
> >
> >Great answers. Thanks guys.
>
> We may have discussed it before, but I'm still not clear on the difference
> between an epithet and a sobriquet.
>
> I tend to use them interchangeably.
>
> Can anyone nuance it a bit?
epithet
noun
1. any word or phrase applied to a person or thing to describe an
actual or attributed quality: "Richard the Lion-Hearted" is an
epithet of Richard I.
2. a characterizing word or phrase firmly associated with a person
or thing and often used in place of an actual name, title, or the
like, as "man's best friend" for "dog."
3. a word, phrase, or expression used invectively as a term of
abuse or contempt, to express hostility, etc.
so�bri�quet
n.
1. An affectionate or humorous nickname.
2. An assumed name.
Compare epithet 3 with sobriquet 1. Regarding persons, an epithet
typically is imposed while a sobriquet is chosen.
--
John Varela
Trade NEWlamps for OLDlamps for email
Steve Hayes
>epithet
>noun
>1. any word or phrase applied to a person or thing to describe an
>actual or attributed quality: "Richard the Lion-Hearted" is an
>epithet of Richard I.
>2. a characterizing word or phrase firmly associated with a person
>or thing and often used in place of an actual name, title, or the
>like, as "man's best friend" for "dog."
>3. a word, phrase, or expression used invectively as a term of
>abuse or contempt, to express hostility, etc.
>
>
>so�bri�quet
>n.
> 1. An affectionate or humorous nickname.
> 2. An assumed name.
>
>
>Compare epithet 3 with sobriquet 1. Regarding persons, an epithet
>typically is imposed while a sobriquet is chosen.
A bitt narcissistic, then, isn't it?
John Varela
<haye...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >Compare epithet 3 with sobriquet 1. Regarding persons, an epithet
> >typically is imposed while a sobriquet is chosen.
>
> A bitt narcissistic, then, isn't it?
How so? Is "Skitt" narcissistic? "Amethyst Deceiver"? "Django
Cat"?
Steve Hayes
>On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 18:48:58 UTC, Steve Hayes
><haye...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> >Compare epithet 3 with sobriquet 1. Regarding persons, an epithet
>> >typically is imposed while a sobriquet is chosen.
>>
>> A bitt narcissistic, then, isn't it?
>
>How so? Is "Skitt" narcissistic? "Amethyst Deceiver"? "Django
>Cat"?
Are any of those "affectionate"?
Imposing an affectionate nickname is one thing, choosing one for yourself is
another.
John Varela
<haye...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On 25 Nov 2009 19:04:25 GMT, "John Varela" <OLDl...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> >On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 18:48:58 UTC, Steve Hayes
> ><haye...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> >Compare epithet 3 with sobriquet 1. Regarding persons, an epithet
> >> >typically is imposed while a sobriquet is chosen.
> >>
> >> A bitt narcissistic, then, isn't it?
> >
> >How so? Is "Skitt" narcissistic? "Amethyst Deceiver"? "Django
> >Cat"?
>
> Are any of those "affectionate"?
What do you think?
> Imposing an affectionate nickname is one thing, choosing one for yourself is
> another.
Yes. So what?
Arcadian Rises
wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 23:26:09 +0100, James Hogg <Jas.H...@gOUTmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Charles Self wrote:
> >> ... or island.
> >> What's that epithet? �Thanks.
>
> >This sceptred isle.
>
> Sometimes humorously modified to "septic isle" as for instance in the
> book title _This Septic Isle: A Revised Dictionary for Modern Britain_
> (by Mike Barfield).
>
> --
> Peter Duncanson, UK
> (in alt.usage.english)
Why not "skeptic isle"?
Arcadian Rises
> On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 01:35:52 -0800 (PST), Charles Self <karl.s...@gmx.net>
An epithet is a label, or a so-called "middle name": as in "my middle
name is tactful" (whishful thinking)
A sobriquet is a nickname, sometimes an "a.k.a."
Steve Hayes
<Arcadi...@aol.com> wrote:
>On Nov 24, 7:23?pm, Steve Hayes <hayesm...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 01:35:52 -0800 (PST), Charles Self <karl.s...@gmx.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >On Nov 23, 11:18?pm, Charles Self <karl.s...@gmx.net> wrote:
>> >> ... or island.
>> >> What's that epithet? ?Thanks.
>>
>> >Great answers. ?Thanks guys.
>>
>> We may have discussed it before, but I'm still not clear on the difference
>> between an epithet and a sobriquet.
>>
>> I tend to use them interchangeably.
>>
>> Can anyone nuance it a bit?
>An epithet is a label, or a so-called "middle name": as in "my middle
>name is tactful" (whishful thinking)
>A sobriquet is a nickname, sometimes an "a.k.a."
So a sobriquet lacks the "defining characteristic" sense of epithet?
Is an epither a subset of sobriquet?
For example, in "Jesus Christ", "Christ" is clearly an epithet. Could one say
it is also a sobriquet, or not?
Reinhold {Rey} Aman
Drives a Helpful Sucker Up the Wall
===================================
AUE's Village Idiot & Pet Cretin Steve Hayes as usual asked *stupidly*,
instead of consulting a dictionary or Google:
>
> We may have discussed it before, but I'm still not clear
> on the difference between an epithet and a sobriquet.
> I tend to use them interchangeably.
> Can anyone nuance it a bit?
>
John Varela helpfully nuanced it more than a bit:
>
> epithet
> noun
> 1. any word or phrase applied to a person or thing to
> describe an actual or attributed quality: "Richard the
> Lion-Hearted" is an epithet of Richard I.
> 2. a characterizing word or phrase firmly associated with a
> person or thing and often used in place of an actual name,
> title,or the like, as "man's best friend" for "dog."
> 3. a word, phrase, or expression used invectively as a term
> of abuse or contempt, to express hostility, etc.
>
> so�bri�quet
> n.
> 1. An affectionate or humorous nickname.
> 2. An assumed name.
>
> Compare epithet 3 with sobriquet 1. Regarding persons, an
> epithet typically is imposed while a sobriquet is chosen.
>
AUE's Village Idiot & Pet Cretin Steve Hayes replied *stupidly*:
>
> A bitt narcissistic, then, isn't it?
>
Still patient, John Varela countered:
>
> How so? Is "Skitt" narcissistic? "Amethyst Deceiver"?
> "Django Cat"?
>
AUE's Village Idiot & Pet Cretin Steve Hayes asked *stupidly*:
>
> Are any of those "affectionate"?
>
Patient John Varela slowly losing his patience:
>
> What do you think?
>
AUE's Village Idiot & Pet Cretin Steve Hayes continued:
>
> Imposing an affectionate nickname is one thing, choosing
> one for yourself is another.
>
Patient John Varela slowly getting testy:
>
> Yes. So what?
>
[Probably to be continued....]
------------------------------
The Moral of my Observation:
If you want to be driven up the wall, do help and discuss words or
anything else with AUE's Village Idiot & Pet Cretin, the Reverend Retard
Steve Hayes.
------------------
For Hayes:
"AUE's Village Idiot" = epithet (1), (2), (3)
"AUE's Pet Cretin" = epithet (1), (2), (3)
"The Reverend Retard" = sobriquet (1)
--
~~~ Reinhold {Rey} Aman ~~~
Steve Hayes
It's a bit narcissistic then, isn't it?
the Omrud
> On Nov 23, 6:51�pm, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)" <m...@peterduncanson.net>
> wrote:
>> On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 23:26:09 +0100, James Hogg <Jas.H...@gOUTmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Charles Self wrote:
>>>> ... or island.
>>>> What's that epithet? �Thanks.
>>> This sceptred isle.
>> Sometimes humorously modified to "septic isle" as for instance in the
>> book title _This Septic Isle: A Revised Dictionary for Modern Britain_
>> (by Mike Barfield).
>>
That's a US spelling - the BrE spelling is "sceptic".
--
David
CDB
> On 27 Nov 2009 02:23:49 GMT, "John Varela" <OLDl...@verizon.net>
> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 26 Nov 2009 00:28:47 UTC, Steve Hayes
>> <haye...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 25 Nov 2009 19:04:25 GMT, "John Varela" <OLDl...@verizon.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 18:48:58 UTC, Steve Hayes
>>>> <haye...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> Compare epithet 3 with sobriquet 1. Regarding persons, an
>>>>>> epithet typically is imposed while a sobriquet is chosen.
>>>>>
>>>>> A bitt narcissistic, then, isn't it?
>>>>
>>>> How so? Is "Skitt" narcissistic? "Amethyst Deceiver"? "Django
>>>> Cat"?
>>>
>>> Are any of those "affectionate"?
>>
>> What do you think?
>>
>>> Imposing an affectionate nickname is one thing, choosing one for
>>> yourself is another.
>>
>> Yes. So what?
>
> It's a bit narcissistic then, isn't it?
>
involved. You are overlooking the alternative definition of
"sobriquet" that John produced for you: " 2. An assumed name."
--
Mr Wonderful
Steve Hayes
At his invitation, because he specifically suggested that I look at the first
example rather than the second.
CDB
>>>> Steve Hayes <haye...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> "John Varela" <OLDl...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>> Steve Hayes <haye...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Compare epithet 3 with sobriquet 1. Regarding persons, an
>>>>>>>> epithet typically is imposed while a sobriquet is chosen.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A bitt narcissistic, then, isn't it?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How so? Is "Skitt" narcissistic? "Amethyst Deceiver"?
>>>>>> "Django Cat"?
>>>>>
>>>>> Are any of those "affectionate"?
>>>>
>>>> What do you think?
>>>>
>>>>> Imposing an affectionate nickname is one thing, choosing one for
>>>>> yourself is another.
>>>>
>>>> Yes. So what?
>>>
>>> It's a bit narcissistic then, isn't it?
>>>
>> There's no affection, and therefore no narcissism, necessarily
>> involved. You are overlooking the alternative definition of
>> "sobriquet" that John produced for you: " 2. An assumed name."
>
> At his invitation, because he specifically suggested that I look at
> the first example rather than the second.
>
the difference between "epithet" and "sobriquet" (his words are still
there, above, with eight attribution marks in front of them, meaning
that the attributions are SFU, but ICBA), and asked you to compare one
definition of one word with one definition of the other. The
comparison certainly points to a difference between the words, that
the first may be unfriendly and the second is probably not*; but I'm
sure he didn't intend to suggest that the other definitions could be
ignored in interpreting the word "sobriquet".
>
*The dictionary reveals that the French originally meant "a chuck
under the chin". (Please, nobody post to ask why I said "chuck",
especially when the dic said "tap". I gotta right.)