to the extent that it was intended as such
navi
to the extent that it was intended as such.
What does 'to the extent that it was intended as such' mean here?
Marius Hancu
Confusing, but:
Even if Faulkner wanted this to be only a horror story, it's much more
than that.
Marius Hancu
Jerry Friedman
If it was intended as a horror story.
If I'd written that, I'd have needed "at all". "To the extent that it
was intended as a horror story at all." But really, I'd have said it
totally differently. "Faulkner's 'A Rose for Emily' may have been
intended as a horror story, but it is far more than /merely/ a horror
story."
Your native language is Spanish, right? With a little checking on
line, I might guess at "a la medida a la cual tuvo Faulkner tal
intención." I can't find a way to translate this "intend" directly.
--
Jerry Friedman
Don Phillipson
news:8ca6d8bf-4bed-485a...@s7g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> Faulkner�s "A Rose for Emily" is far more than merely a horror story,
> to the extent that it was intended as such.
>
> What does 'to the extent that it was intended as such' mean here?
"Horror story" is two recognized genres of writing, either
(1) Literary horror stories as by E.A. Poe, S. Lefanu, etc.
(2) Pulp magazine fiction of a bloodcurdling type.
The commentator on Faulkner does not specify one rather
than other, but perhaps he does not need to since he says
Faulkner intended "far more than merely a horror story."
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)
Jerry Friedman
Or "tuviera"? I'm out of my depth here.
--
Jerry Friedman
navi
>
> - Show quoted text -
Thank you all.
Well, sorry but my native language is not Spanish. I can't speak
Spanish actually and know only a few words. I can speak French, but
that is not my native language either.
Nice try.
Take care.
navi
>
> - Show quoted text -
PS Come to think of it, maybe the native language of the person who
wrote the sentence was Spanish. I did not write that sentence!!! I
came across it!!
This is becoming like the 'Does your dog bite?' joke...
Reinhold {Rey} Aman
>
> Well, sorry but my native language is not Spanish. I can't speak
> Spanish actually and know only a few words. I can speak French,
> but that is not my native language either.
>
Are you ashamed of telling us?
--
~~~ Reinhold {Rey} Aman ~~~
Immer lustig und vergn�gt,
bis der Arsch im Sarge liegt.
http://aman.members.sonic.net/aman.html
Jerry Friedman
Oh, well. I wonder where I got that impression.
Now I'm considering trying to translate that clause into French. Now
I'm rejecting that idea. It was a waste of time trying to translate
it anyway, since it's not a very precise use of "to the extent", imo.
> > Take care
>
> PS Come to think of it, maybe the native language of the person who
> wrote the sentence was Spanish. I did not write that sentence!!! I
> came across it!!
I knew that.
> This is becoming like the 'Does your dog bite?' joke...
--
Jerry Friedman
Eric Walker
First, "such" is not a personal pronoun; the sentence, if it is to be
kept as close as possible to the original, needs to be something like
"Faulkner’s 'A Rose for Emily' is far more than merely a horror story, to
the extent that it was intended as such a thing."
Second, the casting is quite poor: what does "to the extent that" signify
here? That it was so intended? That it might have been so intended but
we don't know? That it was intended to be so in part, but also to be
something else? (And how much of which was what?) It is, in fact,
babble, not coherent English--though we can make plausible guesses at the
meaning, having meaning that must be guessed at is not the ideal of a
well-crafted sentence.
--
Cordially,
Eric Walker, Owlcroft House
http://owlcroft.com/english/
Peter Moylan
>
> Well, sorry but my native language is not Spanish. I can't speak
> Spanish actually and know only a few words. I can speak French, but
> that is not my native language either.
>
> Nice try.
> Take care.
One of my quirks is that almost everything reminds me of some popular
song. So whenever I see the name "navi" my mind starts singing "Con te
partiro, su navi per mari ..."
(I have no doubt that multiple people in this group will know what song
I'm talking about.)
--
Peter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org
For an e-mail address, see my web page.
navi
> Anonymous "navi" wrote:
>
> > Well, sorry but my native language is not Spanish. I can't speak
> > Spanish actually and know only a few words. I can speak French,
> > but that is not my native language either.
>
> So, what *is* your native language?
>
> Are you ashamed of telling us?
>
> --
> ~~~ Reinhold {Rey} Aman ~~~
>
> bis der Arsch im Sarge liegt.http://aman.members.sonic.net/aman.html
Armenian is my mother tongue. But I never went to Armenian schools, so
my Armenian is not that good. My first language is Farsi (Persian). I
just thought people might want to keep the guessing game going!
Reinhold {Rey} Aman
>
> Reinhold {Rey} Aman wrote:
>> Anonymous "navi" wrote:
>>
>>> Well, sorry but my native language is not Spanish. I can't speak
>>> Spanish actually and know only a few words. I can speak French,
>>> but that is not my native language either.
>>
>> So, what *is* your native language?
>>
>> Are you ashamed of telling us?
>
> so my Armenian is not that good. My first language is Farsi (Persian).
> I just thought people might want to keep the guessing game going!
>
Testing your knowledge of Farsi with some of my favorite insults:
-- bi dam�ghi b�b�t rydam!
-- guh bih g�sit m�darit!
-- g�z bi r�shit!
-- khafiq�n big�r!
-- m�dar sag!
-- r�hi b�b�t sag r�d!
-- sari khar t�yi lingit!
-- zani kusdih!
No need to translate. Too shocking for the gentle souls of AUE. :)
--
~~~ Reinhold {Rey} Aman ~~~
Immer lustig und vergn�gt,
navi
> navi wrote:
>
> > Reinhold {Rey} Aman wrote:
> >> Anonymous "navi" wrote:
>
> >>> Well, sorry but my native language is not Spanish. I can't speak
> >>> Spanish actually and know only a few words. I can speak French,
> >>> but that is not my native language either.
>
> >> So, what *is* your native language?
>
> >> Are you ashamed of telling us?
>
> > Armenian is my mother tongue. But I never went to Armenian schools,
> > so my Armenian is not that good. My first language is Farsi (Persian).
> > I just thought people might want to keep the guessing game going!
>
> Excellent, thank you. No other AUEer speaks these languages.
>
> Testing your knowledge of Farsi with some of my favorite insults:
>
> -- guh bih gîsit mâdarit!
> -- gûz bi rîshit!
> -- khafiqân bigîr!
> -- mâdar sag!
> -- rûhi bâbât sag rîd!
> -- sari khar tûyi lingit!
> -- zani kusdih!
>
> No need to translate. Too shocking for the gentle souls of AUE. :)
>
> --
> ~~~ Reinhold {Rey} Aman ~~~
>
> bis der Arsch im Sarge liegt.http://aman.members.sonic.net/aman.html- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Not bad although the transliteration is a bit off. What is your native
language?
می تونی فارسی بخونی؟
I hope those insults are not supposed to be directed at me!
Reinhold {Rey} Aman
>
[...]
>
> Not bad although the transliteration is a bit off.
>
Soraya Noland (Ph.D.), a Cultural Anthropologist born and raised in Iran
who taught in the USA and also at the University of Teheran and the
University of Farabi.
The Farsi insults I showed you are from her article "Iranian Values as
Depicted in Farsi Terms of Abuse, Curses, Threats, and Exclamations,"
which I published in _Maledicta 1981_ (vol. 5), pp. 229-241. I typeset
it and added the original Farsi from her handwritten manuscript.
>
> What is your native language?
>
My two native languages are Lower Bavarian (_Niederbayrisch_) and
Standard German. I grew up in Straubing on the Danube (Donau).
>
> می تو��ی �*ار�3ی بخو��ی؟
>
Sorry, my old browser doesn't show whether this is Armenian or Farsi.
>
> I hope those insults are not supposed to be directed at me!
>
Of course not! I first had a notice ("Nothing personally!"), but then
deleted it, as it was obvious that you are *NOT* a _dir�z g�sh_, _g�v_,
_az sad t� aghrab-u-m�r bad tarih_, _bad asl_, _guh l�lih_,
_b� asl-u-nasab_, _b� sar-u-b� p�_, _gurbih k�rih_, or _har�m z�dih_.
--
~~~ Reinhold {Rey} Aman ~~~
navi
> navi wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> > Not bad although the transliteration is a bit off.
>
> That's the transliteration used and explained by the co-author, Prof.
> Soraya Noland (Ph.D.), a Cultural Anthropologist born and raised in Iran
> who taught in the USA and also at the University of Teheran and the
> University of Farabi.
>
> The Farsi insults I showed you are from her article "Iranian Values as
> Depicted in Farsi Terms of Abuse, Curses, Threats, and Exclamations,"
> which I published in _Maledicta 1981_ (vol. 5), pp. 229-241. I typeset
> it and added the original Farsi from her handwritten manuscript.
>
> > What is your native language?
>
> My two native languages are Lower Bavarian (_Niederbayrisch_) and
> Standard German. I grew up in Straubing on the Danube (Donau).
>
>
> Sorry, my old browser doesn't show whether this is Armenian or Farsi.
>
> > I hope those insults are not supposed to be directed at me!
>
> Of course not! I first had a notice ("Nothing personally!"), but then
> _az sad tâ aghrab-u-mâr bad tarih_, _bad asl_, _guh lûlih_,
> _bî asl-u-nasab_, _bî sar-u-bî pâ_, _gurbih kûrih_, or _harâm zâdih_.
It is nice of you to tell me I am not all of those things!!!!
It was Persian.
To show you what I think the problem with the transliteration is, I'll
give you an example:
You would write, and the western media in general write: Kurdnistan,
Luristan, etc.
That, if I am not mistaken, corresponds to the Arabic pronunciation.
The Persian pronunciation would be: Kurdestan.
So, you would not have 'diraz gush' but 'deraz gush'...In other words,
in some cases (not in all) your 'i's should be replaced by 'e's,
unless there is some set of rules that tell you explicitly how to
pronounce the 'i'. Maybe your transliteration is supposed to be used
to write the words in Persian. I don't know what you are trying to do.
But the word that you write as 'bih' is pronounced 'be' in Persian.
with the 'e' having the same sound it has in the word 'bet'. You write
an 'h' at the end of the word in Persian, but it is silent.
Soraya is a Persian name by the way. So I guess she knew what she was
doing. But I cannot figure it out! Good set of insults, but seriously,
are you in such dire need of insulting people for such a long time...
One or two would be enough...
In any case. I gave you my take on the transliteration thing. If you
see a Persian-speaking person, they could explain it to you a lot
better by pronouncing the words for you.
Over and out.
Peter Moylan
>
> Soraya is a Persian name by the way. So I guess she knew what she was
> doing. But I cannot figure it out! Good set of insults, but seriously,
> are you in such dire need of insulting people for such a long time...
> One or two would be enough...
If you check Rey's background, you'll discover that insults are his
life's work.
navi
wrote:
Thanks. I did look at his background. When you look at his CV you
really feel like insulting him!!! Just to help him carry on his
research of-course!!
The problem is that people can invent insults. I had never heard some
of the ones he mentioned. It is a good line of work come to think of
it. If there is no new material, you can curse your luck in inventive
ways and you are back in the saddle again.... Hi hoe Silver!!!!
Reinhold {Rey} Aman
>
> Peter Moylan wrote:
[...]
>> If you check Rey's background, you'll discover that insults are
>> his life's work.
>
http://aman.members.sonic.net/unique.html
>
> Thanks. I did look at his background. When you look at his CV
> you really feel like insulting him!!!
>
Why? What in my CV (URL below) is bothering you?
Be frank, honest, and specific. I won't be insulted. I'm just curious.
--
~~~ Reinhold {Rey} Aman ~~~
http://aman.members.sonic.net/aman.html <-----------
Mack A. Damia
<am...@sonic.net> wrote:
>navi wrote:
>>
>> Peter Moylan wrote:
>[...]
>>> If you check Rey's background, you'll discover that insults are
>>> his life's work.
>>
>In addition to the topics (see the three columns) listed here:
>
> http://aman.members.sonic.net/unique.html
>>
>> Thanks. I did look at his background. When you look at his CV
>> you really feel like insulting him!!!
>>
>Why? What in my CV (URL below) is bothering you?
>
>Be frank, honest, and specific. I won't be insulted. I'm just curious.
It's hackneyed and egotistical.
No enlightened person would read it and be impressed. It's a matter
of, " Look how clever I am!"
I wonder if my cat will shit on your photo.
Wood Avens
<am...@sonic.net> wrote:
>navi wrote:
>>
>> Peter Moylan wrote:
>[...]
>>> If you check Rey's background, you'll discover that insults are
>>> his life's work.
>>
>In addition to the topics (see the three columns) listed here:
>
> http://aman.members.sonic.net/unique.html
>>
>> Thanks. I did look at his background. When you look at his CV
>> you really feel like insulting him!!!
>>
>Why? What in my CV (URL below) is bothering you?
>
>Be frank, honest, and specific. I won't be insulted. I'm just curious.
Can't speak for navi, but I read his post as meaning that since
insults were your speciality the best tribute, or compliment, would be
to throw another one in your direction. I didn't think it was a case
of being bothered by anything. ICBW.
--
Katy Jennison
spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @
Robin Bignall
<am...@sonic.net> wrote:
>navi wrote:
>>
>> Peter Moylan wrote:
>[...]
>>> If you check Rey's background, you'll discover that insults are
>>> his life's work.
>>
>In addition to the topics (see the three columns) listed here:
>
> http://aman.members.sonic.net/unique.html
>>
>> Thanks. I did look at his background. When you look at his CV
>> you really feel like insulting him!!!
>>
>Why? What in my CV (URL below) is bothering you?
>
>Be frank, honest, and specific. I won't be insulted. I'm just curious.
He might be referring to this line, Rey: "Since 1965 he has been
researching verbal aggression in some 220 languages and dialects from
the past 5,000 years."
Some might be tempted to try to find a piece of verbal aggression that
had as yet not come your way.
--
Robin Bignall
(BrE)
Herts, England
James Hogg
That makes it extremely unusual among CVs. They tend to be altruistic
and anxious to list all the writer's defects.
The bit about Dungheap U also distinguishes it from your run-of-the-mill CV.
--
James
Mack A. Damia
wrote:
Cunning linguist?
We thought that was funny in the 1960s. We were young.
Reinhold {Rey} Aman
>
> Reinhold {Rey} Aman wrote:
>> navi wrote:
>>> Peter Moylan wrote:
>> [...]
>>>> If you check Rey's background, you'll discover that insults are
>>>> his life's work.
>>>
>> In addition to the topics (see the three columns) listed here:
>>
>> http://aman.members.sonic.net/unique.html
>>>
>>> Thanks. I did look at his background. When you look at his CV
>>> you really feel like insulting him!!!
>>>
>> Why? What in my CV (URL below) is bothering you?
>>
>> Be frank, honest, and specific. I won't be insulted. I'm just curious.
>
> Can't speak for navi, but I read his post as meaning that since
> insults were your speciality the best tribute, or compliment, would be
> to throw another one in your direction. I didn't think it was a case
> of being bothered by anything. ICBW.
>
Earlier, "navi" said to me, "are you in such dire need of insulting
people for such a long time... One or two would be enough...," which I
took to be mildly critical, and thus I guessed that he saw something in
my CV that bugged him.
--
~~~ Reinhold {Rey} Aman ~~~
Immer lustig und vergn�gt,
Reinhold {Rey} Aman
>
> Reinhold {Rey} Aman wrote:
>> navi wrote:
>>> Peter Moylan wrote:
>> [...]
>>>> If you check Rey's background, you'll discover that insults are
>>>> his life's work.
>>>
>> In addition to the topics (see the three columns) listed here:
>>
>> http://aman.members.sonic.net/unique.html
>>>
>>> Thanks. I did look at his background. When you look at his CV
>>> you really feel like insulting him!!!
>>>
>> Why? What in my CV (URL below) is bothering you?
>>
>> Be frank, honest, and specific. I won't be insulted. I'm just curious.
>
> He might be referring to this line, Rey: "Since 1965 he has been
> researching verbal aggression in some 220 languages and dialects
> from the past 5,000 years."
>
> Some might be tempted to try to find a piece of verbal aggression that
> had as yet not come your way.
>
To reward you for your astute comment, here's a cool Armenian insult
(NOT aimed at you, bien s�r) translated into English:
*A crow shat on a log, and the sun hatched you!*
--
~~~ Reinhold {Rey} Aman ~~~
Immer lustig und vergn�gt,
Reinhold {Rey} Aman
>
> You are probably right, Katy. Thanks.
>
navi
>
> - Show quoted text -
Thanks Kathy. That is exactly what I meant. It was a joke. It is funny
to be able to insult people and help them do their work at the same
time. That kind of thing.
navi
> bis der Arsch im Sarge liegt.http://aman.members.sonic.net/aman.html- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
No. Your CV just explains why you were in such dire need of insulting
people! It is part of your research! I would be a little more careful
with people (especially ones that come from a different culture than
yours). I think some people might have been offended by the long
series of insults you wrote (especially since some of them were
'family insults'). I mean, if one doesn't know what line of work you
are in and you tell them, well let me see if what I know of your
language is correct and you start insulting them, they might not
appreciate it. I thought it was funny, but one might ask oneself:
'Doesn't this guy have anything nice to say?'
But I wasn't offended. The idea was that some of your insults were not
'run-of-the-mill' insults and some very common ones were absent from
your list, so one would immediately think that one might help you use
better, more common insults. That was all.
Reinhold {Rey} Aman
> people!
>
(1) I was *NOT* in a dire need of insulting people (e.g., you).
(2) I did *NOT* insult you. I merely showed you some Farsi insults
from that long glossary in _Maledicta_ I mentioned.
>
> It is part of your research! I would be a little more careful
> with people (especially ones that come from a different culture
> than yours).
>
Thank you for your warning, but I am very much aware of cultural
differences and *know* which groups/cultures are most offended by which
specific insults, e.g., those aimed at living or dead family members.
Such insults can get you killed.
>
> I think some people might have been offended by the long series
> of insults you wrote (especially since some of them were
> 'family insults').
>
No AUE-reader was offended, because (1) no-one (except you, as far as I
know) understood the Farsi insults and (2) no AUEer is from a culture
like yours where family-type insults are the most serious and taboo ones.
>
> I mean, if one doesn't know what line of work you are in
> and you tell them, well let me see if what I know of your
> language is correct and you start insulting them, they might not
> appreciate it. I thought it was funny, but one might ask oneself:
> 'Doesn't this guy have anything nice to say?'
>
This guy has plenty of nice things to say to or about those who deserve
my praise or who have earned my admiration.
>
> But I wasn't offended. The idea was that some of your insults were
> not 'run-of-the-mill' insults and some very common ones were absent
> from your list,
>
Jesus! They are not absent in that *long glossary* in _Maledicta_. I
just picked a few common and uncommon Farsi insults from that glossary
to amuse you.
>
> so one would immediately think that one might help you use better,
> more common insults. That was all.
>
For those AUEers who are not acquainted with non-English family-type
insults, here are a few, translated into English, that would get you
severely beaten, stabbed, shot, or killed if you used them against an
individual of that particular culture:
-- *Your parents have diseased genitals!* (Ghana)
-- *Your mother's milk was camel piss!* (Arabic)
-- *I shit on your dead relatives!* (Spanish Gypsies in Seville)
-- *I fuck the soul of your dead mother!* (Serbian Gypsies)
-- *I shit on your father's nose!* (Iran)
-- *May shit be on your mother's hair!* (Iran)
-- *I fucked your sister!* (Iran)
-- *My prick is in your wife's / sister's / mother's cunt!* (Iran)
-- *May a dog shit on your father's grave!* (Iran)
-- *Fuck your mother's cunt!* (Mandarin)
-- *Brother-in-law!* (Hindi). It means "Your sister is a slut
and I fucked her."
Yusuf B Gursey
"Fuck your sister!" is very common in Arabic.
"Fuck your mother!" is very in Turkish