Pronunciation of "Lieblich", and other AUE regulars' names
iwasaki
family name, in which he says that "ch" in "Lieblich" is pronounced
like "ch" in the German word "ich", but he doesn't bother most of the
time. What should I call you, Mr. Lieblich? ['li:b,lIC] or ['li:b,lIk]?
Pronunciation of names is tough. The topic about AUE posters' names
pops up once in a while, and if I remember correctly, Donna Richoux is
pronounced like "ri-shoe", and Laura F Spira is like "spy-ra", but I
forget how to pronounce Padraig Breathnach. And should the "h" in Bob
"Cunningham" be pronounced? How should Lars "Eighner" be pronounced?
I would very much appreciate if there would be an ASCII IPA list of
how-to-pronounce-AUE-regulars-names (or wav.files of their names)
somewhere in the AUE website.
--
Nobuko Iwasaki
Ross Howard
<piano...@mtg.biglobe.ne.jp> wrought:
I'm surprised you didn't ask about "Reinhold (Rey) Aman" (I know it
was cleared up long ago but new posters don't tend to read the
archives).
I'm sure if we could hear inside people's heads, we'd variously get.
"a man", "a mahn", "Amman", "Almond" (old RP) or "Aymen".
Right, Rye?
[ObAnotherThreadSomewhereUpThere: See how "eye dialect" can be clear
and not insulting?]
***********
Ross Howard
Michael Hamm
Michael Hamm, /h&:m/, not /ham/
BA scl Math, PBK, NYU
msh...@math.wustl.edu
http://www.math.wustl.edu/~msh210/
Bob Cunningham
[ . . . ]
> And should the "h" in Bob "Cunningham" be pronounced?
Yes. It's ['kVniN,h&m] (secondary stress on the second
syllable), as might be said of a *cunning* ham, a ham who's
cunning as opposed to a ham who's dull-witted.
I suppose there are people called "Cunningham" who want to
have it pronounced ['kVniN@m] ("CUNNINGuhm"), but I'm not
one of them. I've had people pronounce my name that way,
but it makes me shudder a little.
(Is a wince a little shudder?)
R F
On Fri, 5 Sep 2003, iwasaki wrote:
> Pronunciation of names is tough. The topic about AUE posters' names
> pops up once in a while, and if I remember correctly, Donna Richoux is
> pronounced like "ri-shoe", and Laura F Spira is like "spy-ra", but I
> forget how to pronounce Padraig Breathnach. And should the "h" in Bob
> "Cunningham" be pronounced?
How should the "Bob" in "Bob Cunningham" be pronounced? CINC Americans
will want to say "bahb", using the cot/father vowel, but Bob's own
pronunciation of "Bob" seems closer to their "Bawb".
> I would very much appreciate if there would be an ASCII IPA list of
> how-to-pronounce-AUE-regulars-names (or wav.files of their names)
> somewhere in the AUE website.
First you'd need to define who a 'regular' is.
Is Tony Cooper /kupR/ or /kUpR/? I have information that in Coop's native
Indiana both pronunciations of surname "Cooper" are found.
Lars Eighner
<bj7m9f$g3f38$1...@ID-136331.news.uni-berlin.de>,
the lovely and talented iwasaki
broadcast on alt.usage.english:
> I remember Bob Lieblich has once posted about the pronunciation of his
> family name, in which he says that "ch" in "Lieblich" is pronounced
> like "ch" in the German word "ich", but he doesn't bother most of the
> time. What should I call you, Mr. Lieblich? ['li:b,lIC] or ['li:b,lIk]?
> Pronunciation of names is tough. The topic about AUE posters' names
> pops up once in a while, and if I remember correctly, Donna Richoux is
> pronounced like "ri-shoe", and Laura F Spira is like "spy-ra", but I
> forget how to pronounce Padraig Breathnach. And should the "h" in Bob
> "Cunningham" be pronounced? How should Lars "Eighner" be pronounced?
I say /'aI nR/ (if I have got the ASCII IPA right). This is not
in accord with most of my father's family who say /'&g nR/, for
the name is supposed to be a variant of French Agner, German
Egner, Alsatian Aigner, etc. This name is believed to be unrelated
to Scots Agner. (My Scots blood is on the distaff side.) I answer
to either.
> I would very much appreciate if there would be an ASCII IPA list of
> how-to-pronounce-AUE-regulars-names (or wav.files of their names)
> somewhere in the AUE website.
--
Lars Eighner -finger for geek code- eig...@io.com http://www.io.com/~eighner/
"Love is the wisdom of the fool and the folly of the wise." --Samuel Johnson
Bob Cunningham
<rfon...@mail.wesleyan.edu> said:
> On Fri, 5 Sep 2003, iwasaki wrote:
> > Pronunciation of names is tough. The topic about AUE posters' names
> > pops up once in a while, and if I remember correctly, Donna Richoux is
> > pronounced like "ri-shoe", and Laura F Spira is like "spy-ra", but I
> > forget how to pronounce Padraig Breathnach. And should the "h" in Bob
> > "Cunningham" be pronounced?
> How should the "Bob" in "Bob Cunningham" be pronounced?
Iwasaki didn't ask that, and I doubt that any sensible
person would ask it. The word "bob" is familiar to speakers
of every dialect, and it's pronounced however those speakers
want to pronounce it.
Iwasaki asked only about the "h" in "Cunningham". That was
a good question, and I've answered it in another posting.
> CINC Americans will want to say "bahb", using the cot/father
> vowel, but Bob's own pronunciation of "Bob" seems closer to
> their "Bawb".
If iwasaki doesn't know what "CINC" or "cot/father vowel"
mean, he or she should join the crowd. No one but a certain
group of AUE posters can be expected to understand them.
Also, iwasaki shouldn't assume he or she knows what is meant
by "bahb" and "bawb". In particular, he or she shouldn't
assume that they stand for the way he or she would pronounce
"bahb" or "bawb".
People who use terms like "CINC", "cot/father vowel", "ah
pronunciation" and "aw" pronunciation do a serious
disservice to the general readership of AUE. Their
communications should be by e-mail or in a restricted
mailing list, or they should point to a place where the
terms are thoroughly defined and explained.
Aaron J. Dinkin
> How should the "Bob" in "Bob Cunningham" be pronounced? CINC Americans
> will want to say "bahb", using the cot/father vowel, but Bob's own
> pronunciation of "Bob" seems closer to their "Bawb".
"The general feeling is that, while there is no such thing as a stupid
question, this one comes very close." --Nancy Purtill, administrative
assistant, UCLA dept. of biology, 1992.
-Aaron J. Dinkin
Dr. Whom
Evan Kirshenbaum
> I say /'aI nR/ (if I have got the ASCII IPA right). This is not
> in accord with most of my father's family who say /'&g nR/,
Okay. That's one I've gotten wrong. I've been mentally pronouncing
your name /'aIg nR/.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |Code should be designed to make it
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |easy to get it right, not to work
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |if you get it right.
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com
(650)857-7572
Fabian
"iwasaki" hi kitbet
> I would very much appreciate if there would be an ASCII IPA list of
> how-to-pronounce-AUE-regulars-names (or wav.files of their names)
> somewhere in the AUE website.
笛美安・判出雷流です。
Probably easier to read, would be /feIbjVn vAn d@ laIl/
ちなみに、ベルリンの鯖を教えてありがとう。
--
--
Fabian
Once you get over the initial panic stage, oxygen starvation is actually
a rather pleasant sensation, almost like falling asleep.
Jerry Friedman
...
> The topic about AUE posters' names
> pops up once in a while, and if I remember correctly, Donna Richoux is
> pronounced like "ri-shoe", and Laura F Spira is like "spy-ra", but I
> forget how to pronounce Padraig Breathnach
...
Pat Brenna.
(Just kidding!)
--
/'dZEri 'fri:dm@n/
R F
On Thu, 4 Sep 2003, Evan Kirshenbaum wrote:
> Lars Eighner <eig...@io.com> writes:
>
> > I say /'aI nR/ (if I have got the ASCII IPA right). This is not
> > in accord with most of my father's family who say /'&g nR/,
>
> Okay. That's one I've gotten wrong. I've been mentally pronouncing
> your name /'aIg nR/.
Me too. I've been mentally pronouncing "Kirshenbaum" with final syllable
/baUm/, which (and despite the fact that) I believe you have said is not
how you pronounce it. HTBH.
R F
UCLA, eh? Probably a CIC-o.
R H Draney
>
>Pronunciation of names is tough. The topic about AUE posters' names
>pops up once in a while, and if I remember correctly, Donna Richoux is
>pronounced like "ri-shoe", and Laura F Spira is like "spy-ra", but I
>forget how to pronounce Padraig Breathnach. And should the "h" in Bob
>"Cunningham" be pronounced? How should Lars "Eighner" be pronounced?
I was going to give this question a pass on the grounds that the pronunciation
of my name is obvious from the spelling...but then I got a couple of calls from
telemarketers (hurry up, October 1st!) and I realized that there's no such thing
as obvious to some people...that in mind, it's /'dreIni/ (we didn't routinely
change final [i] to [I] in southern California when I were growing up)...an
historical case could be made for /d@'reInI/....
The favored *incorrect* pronunciation seems to be /'dr&ni/...sometimes I get
lucky and answer the phone for Mister Darney, or even Mister Delaney, but such
opportunities are far too infrequent....r
R F
On Thu, 4 Sep 2003, R H Draney wrote:
> I was going to give this question a pass on the grounds that the pronunciation
> of my name is obvious from the spelling...but then I got a couple of calls from
> telemarketers (hurry up, October 1st!) and I realized that there's no such thing
> as obvious to some people...that in mind, it's /'dreIni/ (we didn't routinely
> change final [i] to [I] in southern California when I were growing up)...an
> historical case could be made for /d@'reInI/....
Japanese-Irish?
Evan Kirshenbaum
Nope. It's just /bAm/ (like, for me at least, "bomb").
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |The law of supply and demand tells us
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |that when the price of something is
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |artificially set below market level,
|there will soon be none of that thing
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com |left--as you may have noticed the
(650)857-7572 |last time you tried to buy something
|for nothing.
http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ | P.J. O'Rourke
Tony Cooper
Tony Cooper
wrote:
>
It's the asterisks that make it difficult to pronounce.
Robert Lieblich
>
> I remember Bob Lieblich has once posted about the pronunciation of his
> family name, in which he says that "ch" in "Lieblich" is pronounced
> like "ch" in the German word "ich", but he doesn't bother most of the
> time. What should I call you, Mr. Lieblich? ['li:b,lIC] or ['li:b,lIk]?
"Bob" is quite sufficient.
I don't trust myself with ASCII IPA, but I think I can convey the
same info as follows: LEE-blick. It's a rare surname in the US, but
I have encountered people who pronounce it LEE-blitch, and I think
there's at least one LEE-blish out there. It's all in what you
think the least of evils.
Darlene Lieblich won several games on Jeopardy! a while back. She
pronounces it as I do.
--
Bob Lieblich
Suddenly very self-conscious
iwasaki
"Fabian" <laj...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bj8bft$gjmk8$1...@ID-174912.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "iwasaki" hi kitbet
>
> > I would very much appreciate if there would be an ASCII IPA list of
> > how-to-pronounce-AUE-regulars-names (or wav.files of their names)
> > somewhere in the AUE website.
>
> 笛美安・判出雷流です。
Cute!
> Probably easier to read, would be /feIbjVn vAn d@ laIl/
>
> ちなみに、ベルリンの鯖を教えてありがとう。
You're welco-- "Berlin no Saba"?
--
Nobuko Iwasaki
"Oshiete *kurete* arigato", by the way.
iwasaki
"Michael Hamm" <mh...@artsci.wustl.edu> wrote in message
news:bj7n0v$58r$1...@newsreader.wustl.edu...
> On Fri, 5 Sep 2003 00:49:47 +0900, iwasaki <piano...@mtg.biglobe.ne.jp>
> wrote.
>
> Michael Hamm, /h&:m/, not /ham/
Thank you. So the "a" should be pronounced a bit longer
than "ham" in "Green Eggs and Ham"?
--
Nobuko Iwasaki
iwasaki
"Robert Lieblich" <Robert....@Verizon.net> wrote in message
news:3F57CF3E...@Verizon.net...
> iwasaki wrote:
> >
> > I remember Bob Lieblich has once posted about the pronunciation of his
> > family name, in which he says that "ch" in "Lieblich" is pronounced
> > like "ch" in the German word "ich", but he doesn't bother most of the
> > time. What should I call you, Mr. Lieblich? ['li:b,lIC] or
['li:b,lIk]?
>
> "Bob" is quite sufficient.
>
> I don't trust myself with ASCII IPA, but I think I can convey the
> same info as follows: LEE-blick. It's a rare surname in the US, but
> I have encountered people who pronounce it LEE-blitch, and I think
> there's at least one LEE-blish out there. It's all in what you
> think the least of evils.
Thank you, Bob.
"Bob" seems to be quite a common name, but what would you call each
other, if you always have several Bobs around you? I have worked
with a woman named "Miki", who had worked with two other Mikis. They
got away with calling each other "Miki 1", "Miki 2", and "Miki 3".
--
Nobuko Iwasaki
iwasaki
"R F" <rfon...@mail.wesleyan.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.53.03...@alumni.wesleyan.edu...
>
> On Fri, 5 Sep 2003, iwasaki wrote:
> > I would very much appreciate if there would be an ASCII IPA list of
> > how-to-pronounce-AUE-regulars-names (or wav.files of their names)
> > somewhere in the AUE website.
>
> First you'd need to define who a 'regular' is.
I guess Mr. Cunningham's "Stats for individual posters" would be
an excellent hint to decide who the regulars are. But one important
regular's posting history doesn't appear in that stat. It would
be perfect, if you add that person, who is a CINC speaker and a
cot/caught specialist, to the list of "regulars".
--
Nobuko Iwasaki
iwasaki
"Bob Cunningham" <exw...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:fboelvk6loc7oilqe...@4ax.com...
Thank you. Then I will not forget the "h" sound, when I
pronounce your name. My dictionary gives two kinds of
pronunciation for "Cunningham" so I wondered which the
pronunciation of your name is.
--
Nobuko Iwasaki
iwasaki
"Lars Eighner" <eig...@io.com> wrote in message
news:slrnblethd...@pearl.io.com...
> In our last episode,
> <bj7m9f$g3f38$1...@ID-136331.news.uni-berlin.de>,
> the lovely and talented iwasaki
> broadcast on alt.usage.english:
>
>
> I say /'aI nR/ (if I have got the ASCII IPA right). This is not
> in accord with most of my father's family who say /'&g nR/, for
> the name is supposed to be a variant of French Agner, German
> Egner, Alsatian Aigner, etc. This name is believed to be unrelated
> to Scots Agner. (My Scots blood is on the distaff side.) I answer
> to either.
I, too, have mispronounced your name. (I thought the "Ei" was
pronounced like the "ei" in "eight".) Thank you!
--
Nobuko Iwasaki
iwasaki
"Ross Howard" <ggu...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3anelvohivc07a7ec...@4ax.com...
>
> I'm surprised you didn't ask about "Reinhold (Rey) Aman" (I know it
> was cleared up long ago but new posters don't tend to read the
> archives).
>
> I'm sure if we could hear inside people's heads, we'd variously get.
> "a man", "a mahn", "Amman", "Almond" (old RP) or "Aymen".
Oh, I thought it was [aman]. As there's a Japanese writer of
children's stories, Kimiko Aman, I couldn't think of other
pronunciations. How is your name pronounced, Dr. Aman? I checked
Google groups, but couldn't find the post that cleared it up.
--
Nobuko Iwasaki
Skitt
> "R F" wrote
>> iwasaki wrote:
>>> I would very much appreciate if there would be an ASCII IPA list of
>>> how-to-pronounce-AUE-regulars-names (or wav.files of their names)
>>> somewhere in the AUE website.
>>
>> First you'd need to define who a 'regular' is.
>
> I guess Mr. Cunningham's "Stats for individual posters" would be
> an excellent hint to decide who the regulars are. But one important
> regular's posting history doesn't appear in that stat. It would
> be perfect, if you add that person, who is a CINC speaker and a
> cot/caught specialist, to the list of "regulars".
Well, the only reason I am at the top of the list is because that regular,
and possibly another one or two, specifically asked to be removed from it.
--
Skitt (in Hayward, California)
www.geocities.com/opus731/
Reinhold (Rey) Aman
> Robert Lieblich wrote:
> > iwasaki wrote:
> > > I remember Bob Lieblich has once posted about the pronunciation of his
> > > family name, in which he says that "ch" in "Lieblich" is pronounced
> > > like "ch" in the German word "ich", but he doesn't bother most of the
> > > time. What should I call you, Mr. Lieblich? ['li:b,lIC] or ['li:b,lIk]?
> > "Bob" is quite sufficient.
[...]
> Thank you, Bob.
>
> "Bob" seems to be quite a common name, but what would you call
> each other, if you always have several Bobs around you?
[...]
Solution: Call Bob Lieblich "Dick" as I do. No confusion.
--
Reinhold (Rey) Aman
Reinhold (Rey) Aman
> Ross Howard wrote:
> > I'm surprised you didn't ask about "Reinhold (Rey) Aman" (I know
> > it was cleared up long ago but new posters don't tend to read the
> > archives).
> >
> > I'm sure if we could hear inside people's heads, we'd variously
> > get "a man", "a mahn", "Amman", "Almond" (old RP) or "Aymen".
> Oh, I thought it was [aman]. As there's a Japanese writer of
> children's stories, Kimiko Aman, I couldn't think of other
> pronunciations. How is your name pronounced, Dr. Aman? I checked
> Google groups, but couldn't find the post that cleared it up.
I've just made a primitive .wav sound file but don't think it's
working. Try with the "Internet Explorer":
http://www.sonic.net/maledicta/RA.wav [180k!]
It says "Reinhold Albert Aman / Rey / Maledicta."
If someone can fix up this file, send it to me.
--
Reinhold (Rey) Aman
Skitt
> I've just made a primitive .wav sound file but don't think it's
> working. Try with the "Internet Explorer":
>
> http://www.sonic.net/maledicta/RA.wav [180k!]
>
> It says "Reinhold Albert Aman / Rey / Maledicta."
>
> If someone can fix up this file, send it to me.
It works for me.
Skitt
> Reinhold (Rey) Aman wrote:
>> I've just made a primitive .wav sound file but don't think it's
>> working. Try with the "Internet Explorer":
>>
>> http://www.sonic.net/maledicta/RA.wav [180k!]
>>
>> It says "Reinhold Albert Aman / Rey / Maledicta."
>>
>> If someone can fix up this file, send it to me.
>
> It works for me.
I forgot to ask -- did you always pronounce your first name like in "rain",
rather than the more common German way (to rhyme with the German "sein" and
"mein")?
Reinhold (Rey) Aman
> Skitt wrote:
> > Reinhold (Rey) Aman wrote:
> >> I've just made a primitive .wav sound file but don't
> >> think it's working. Try with the "Internet Explorer":
> >>
> >> http://www.sonic.net/maledicta/RA.wav [180k!]
> >>
> >> It says "Reinhold Albert Aman / Rey / Maledicta."
> >>
> >> If someone can fix up this file, send it to me.
> > It works for me.
> I forgot to ask -- did you always pronounce your first name like in "rain",
> rather than the more common German way (to rhyme with the German "sein" and
> "mein")?
If you meant English "rain," no. I don't hear that sound in the
recording. If you meant German "Rain," it rhymes 100% with "sein" and
"mein" and "rein." I use the sound of the German <ei>, which is
nasalised in Bavarian (my mother tongue).
--
Reinhold (Rey) Aman
R J Valentine
...
} Well, the only reason I am at the top of the list is because that regular,
} and possibly another one or two, specifically asked to be removed from it.
Who's that? I haven't checked lately, because anymore the URLs seem to be
of the tinyurl sort exclusively, and they're against my religion. I used
to check from time to time back when the full URLs were posted, but I
don't think I ever made the top 25, so I'm not likely to be confused with
the regulars. You're not saying that Prof. F asked off the list, are you?
But it's /'v&l@n,tajn/ (with the same sort of rhythm as Cunningham), just
like everyone usually pronounces it, though telemarketers seldom make the
connection. (It reminds me, though, that my bank has started
corresponding with me in Spanish, probably because I usually take the
Spanish option on the ATM (and would take any other non-English language
they offered, if they did, just to make it interesting).) And /'ar,dZej/
(where form letters and some telemarketers seem to want to make do with
"R", and relatives barely over calling me with a diminutive of my father's
name sometimes try /,ar'dZej/).
--
R. J. Valentine <mailto:ar...@wicked.smart.net>
R J Valentine
} iwasaki wrote:
}
}> Robert Lieblich wrote:
...
}> > "Bob" is quite sufficient.
}
} [...]
}
}> Thank you, Bob.
}>
}> "Bob" seems to be quite a common name, but what would you call
}> each other, if you always have several Bobs around you?
}
} [...]
}
} Solution: Call Bob Lieblich "Dick" as I do. No confusion.
Or call him "Young Bob" as I do. Even less confusion than with Reinel's
solution.
--
R. J. Valentine <mailto:rey...@wicked.smart.net>
mb
...
> People who use terms like "CINC", "cot/father vowel", "ah
> pronunciation" and "aw" pronunciation do a serious
> disservice to the general readership of AUE. Their
> communications should be by e-mail or in a restricted
> mailing list, or they should point to a place where the
> terms are thoroughly defined and explained.
Wasn't there some reference to something like that? Of course it would
be nice to have it repeated in every related thread.
Charles Riggs
wrote:
>How should the "Bob" in "Bob Cunningham" be pronounced?
Who would ask such a question, besides Richard, or could possibly give
a rat's ass about the answer, since everyone from the early caveman to
modern man knows, or knew, what it is?
--
Charles Riggs
For email, take the air out of aircom
and replace with eir
R J Valentine
I'll tell you what I heard (and give Bob Cunningham another chance to say
I have a tin ear). I hear the German "ei", but it wasn't far from the way
an English "ai" would sound if you didn't spread the lips into a smile
("ai" with rounding, as it were). But let me back up a bit.
The first quarter of a second, I couldn't tell if you dropped the
microphone or were editorializing maledictally on dropping it or
both. Then there was a gap. Then it sounded like you were starting an
uvular trill (or whatever they call it in the trade) for a German
start-of-word "r", except that it wasn't working at first and you had to
kick start it a little, then you got a single uvular flap out of it
suffficient for the "r", and finished the rest of "Reinhold" in German
fashion well understandable in English. The "Albert" was of course the
German "AHLbairt", and the "Aman" would be surprising mainly to someone
expecting the accent on the second syllable, possibly surprising in
French or Japanese.
I don't know if I have all the ASCII IPA characters straight, but (from
memory), it was something like [@'xajn,holt 'al,be@Ct 'a,man] (the
"Rey" and the "maledicta" being unremarkable). All in all, just about
what I'd expect pronouncing it all the German way, and I didn't really
hear anything I'd have to attribute to Bavarianness. It's a little
different than I'd pronounce it in English, like if I were calling you up
to receive an award, but that's just because I don't generally use
non-English sounds in English. I wouldn't mind seeing what Bob Cunningham
can do using Praat on the sample, but it may be better if I don't mention
it. (Oops!) I'd also be interested in Prof. von Taunau's comments.
--
R./ J. Valentine <mailto:r...@smart.net>
Bob Cunningham
<am...@sonic.net> said:
[ . . . ]
> I've just made a primitive .wav sound file but don't think it's
> working. Try with the "Internet Explorer":
> http://www.sonic.net/maledicta/RA.wav [180k!]
> It says "Reinhold Albert Aman / Rey / Maledicta."
> If someone can fix up this file, send it to me.
There's nothing wrong with it. It's a good sound file.
Your accent is fascinating. I think it would be really nice
if you would record "Arthur the Rat" so we could hear a lot
more of it. It will be a pleasure to hear a fluent English
speaker with a charming foreign accent.
The text of "Arthur the Rat" is at
http://www.alt-usage-english.org/arth_txt.html .
The file will be huge, but that's okay. If you don't want
to install such a big file at your Web site, e-mail it to
me. I'll convert it to MP3 -- which will make it about
one-fifth as large -- and make it available for others to
hear.
Reinhold (Rey) Aman
-----------
Reinhold (Rey) Aman wrote:
> I've just made a primitive .wav sound file but don't
> think it's working. Try with the "Internet Explorer":
>
> http://www.sonic.net/maledicta/RA.wav [180k!]
>
> It says "Reinhold Albert Aman / Rey / Maledicta."
Thanks much to Murray, there are now two fixed-up and smaller sound
files available at:
http://www.sonic.net/maledicta/Reinhold-Aman.mp3 [24k]
http://www.sonic.net/maledicta/Reinhold-Aman.wav [116k]
--
Reinhold (Rey) Aman
Bob Cunningham
<exw...@earthlink.net> said:
> On Fri, 05 Sep 2003 03:36:49 GMT, "Reinhold (Rey) Aman"
> <am...@sonic.net> said:
>
> [ . . . ]
>
> > I've just made a primitive .wav sound file but don't think it's
> > working. Try with the "Internet Explorer":
>
> > http://www.sonic.net/maledicta/RA.wav [180k!]
>
> > It says "Reinhold Albert Aman / Rey / Maledicta."
>
> > If someone can fix up this file, send it to me.
>
> There's nothing wrong with it. It's a good sound file.
[ . . . ]
I might have mentioned that there's some noise at the
beginning and end, apparently due to something like setting
the mike down on a table or otherwise handling it. But
those noises are unimportant, because they're easy to edit
out.
Jitze Couperus
>
>I've just made a primitive .wav sound file but don't think it's
>working. Try with the "Internet Explorer":
>
>http://www.sonic.net/maledicta/RA.wav [180k!]
>
>It says "Reinhold Albert Aman / Rey / Maledicta."
>
>If someone can fix up this file, send it to me.
>
Nothing wrong with the file. However, I think you
switched on the recording just a second too early.
I surmise that something went wrong just at the critical
moment (you dropped a hammer on your toe?)
and I heard the tail-end of a copulative expletive.
Furthermore, it sounds like you pronounce *that* word with
the cot sound rather than the cut sound...
Jitze
Bob Cunningham
said:
> Bob Cunningham <exw...@earthlink.net> wrote
There's a list of abbreviations that appeared in AUE over a
period of several years, and the list includes one person's
interpretation of their meanings. It's at
http://alt-usage-english.org/abbreviations.html . However,
it will tell you what "CINC" probably stands for, "caught is
not cot", but that would leave an uninitiated reader still
mystified. He might say to himself: "It's obvious that
caught is not cot; it's also obvious that truck is not cat
and wheat is not chalk; but so what?"
The references to things like "ah sounds" and "aw sounds"
and the "cot/father" vowel have been explained in various
postings by, I think, Aaron Dinkin, for one. That whole
area needs to have a comprehensive explanation prepared and
installed at a Web site where it can be referred to in each
posting that mentions those things.
What would then be "repeated in every related thread" would
be the URL of the comprehensive explanation.
But that's pie in the sky. I'm sure our ah-aw-vowelers will
continue to disregard the fact that AUE has a general
readership and will continue to mislead them by using terms
that have esoteric significance to the ah-aw-vowelers but
are subject to gross misinterpretation by the uninitiated
general readership.
Reinhold (Rey) Aman
> Bob Cunningham wrote:
> > There's nothing wrong with it. It's a good sound file.
> [ . . . ]
>
> I might have mentioned that there's some noise at the
> beginning and end, apparently due to something like setting
> the mike down on a table or otherwise handling it. But
> those noises are unimportant, because they're easy to edit
> out.
I don't know much about recording sounds and don't have a good program
for my Mac (which I prefer to my PC). The old sound-manipulation
applications I have don't work any longer with my PowerMac and OS 9.1.
One was neat: I could see the sound waves and "erase" the noise at
the beginning and the end of a recording.
A year ago I recorded a Bavarian shibboleth ("Oachkatzlschwoaf") for a
friend in Scotland, who wanted it to annoy a Prussian visitor. That
program gave me three choices of sound quality and Save As choices
(.wav, .ra, Quicktime), but I can't find it. Thus I used a simple
sound-recording option in a text editor and got that primitive
recording which Murray meanwhile cleaned up and reduced in size.
--
Reinhold (Rey) Aman
Reinhold (Rey) Aman
[...]
> Your accent is fascinating.
That's what all the chicks say, but do I get laid? Nooo! (Sorry,
Bob, but you know how I am.)
> I think it would be really nice
> if you would record "Arthur the Rat" so we could hear a lot
> more of it. It will be a pleasure to hear a fluent English
> speaker with a charming foreign accent.
>
> The text of "Arthur the Rat" is at
> http://www.alt-usage-english.org/arth_txt.html .
>
> The file will be huge, but that's okay. If you don't want
> to install such a big file at your Web site, e-mail it to
> me. I'll convert it to MP3 -- which will make it about
> one-fifth as large -- and make it available for others to
> hear.
Okay, Bob, I'll do it soon, using my simple sound-recording
application, and I'll send you the file for cleaning, conversion, and condensation.
Perhaps I'll just read the first paragraph or two. Too bad that text
isn't something erotic to get Dena Jo, Anna, and Muffy all hot and
bothered while listening to my Continental charm. {Hi, Lisi!}
--
Reinhold (Rey) Aman
Michael West
"Reinhold (Rey) Aman" <am...@sonic.net> wrote:
>
> I've just made a primitive .wav sound file but don't think it's
> working. Try with the "Internet Explorer":
>
> http://www.sonic.net/maledicta/RA.wav [180k!]
>
> It says "Reinhold Albert Aman / Rey / Maledicta."
>
> If someone can fix up this file, send it to me.
Worked fine for me, Rey, but you can save
a lotta bytes by converting to MP3 format.
I always wondered whether "Rey" was "Ray"
or "Rye", and now I know.
--
Michael West
Melbourne, Australia
Michael West
"Reinhold (Rey) Aman" <am...@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:3F580EF0...@sonic.net...
Okay, maybe it didn't work so well. I hear "Ray" not "Rye" --
in both "Reinhold" and "Rey".
Reinhold (Rey) Aman
[...]
> Worked fine for me, Rey, but you can save
> a lotta bytes by converting to MP3 format.
I know, Mike, but I have neither the equipment nor the skills to do
it. Murray and Bob C. will help me. Murray has already reduced the
180k .wav file to a 24k .mp3 file.
> I always wondered whether "Rey" was "Ray"
> or "Rye", and now I know.
Fey Rey, ¡olé! (as pronounced by pinche gringos)
--
Reinhold (Rey) Aman
Christopher Johnson
[..]
> http://www.sonic.net/maledicta/Reinhold-Aman.mp3 [24k]
I've just listened to this, Rey. What a distinguished
sounding voice you have! It's soothing and yet has just
a slight hint of melancholy.
I'm sure your recording of 'Arthur the Rat' will be
great, though I'd personally rather hear you read
something more along the line of Keats' 'Ode on
Melancholy':
http://www.englishhistory.net/keats/poetry/melan.html
That would be really something, but I'll settle for
'Arthur the Rat' if that's the only choice.
--
Christopher
Dena Jo
> Perhaps I'll just read the first paragraph or two. Too bad that text
> isn't something erotic to get Dena Jo, Anna, and Muffy all hot and
> bothered while listening to my Continental charm. {Hi, Lisi!}
Ah, even that small little snippet of an accent was enough.
Actually, I was quite surprised to hear you speak with one. For some
reason, I'd assumed you'd lost your accent. Can you turn it on and off
at will? A close friend of mine speaks with a Southern accent. She
deliberately turns it off while at work because she's found that many
people, upon hearing her accent, assume she has an IQ of 72.
--
Dena Jo
(Email: Replace TPUBGTH with denajo2)
Bob Cunningham
<am...@sonic.net> said:
> Michael West wrote:
> [...]
> > Worked fine for me, Rey, but you can save
> > a lotta bytes by converting to MP3 format.
> I know, Mike, but I have neither the equipment nor the skills to do
> it. Murray and Bob C. will help me. Murray has already reduced the
> 180k .wav file to a 24k .mp3 file.
After snipping leading and trailing noise, snipping some
internal pauses, and converting to MP3, I get a 12K file.
It's at
http://www.exw6sxq.com/sparky/aue_related/speech_examples/aman.mp3
or http://tinyurl.com/mcs1 .
The WAV file after the same snipping is 84K. It's at
http://www.exw6sxq.com/sparky/aue_related/speech_examples/aman.wav
or http://tinyurl.com/mcuc .
> > I always wondered whether "Rey" was "Ray"
> > or "Rye", and now I know.
I'm a little curious about the great difference in the "r"s
in "Reinhold" and "Rey". Is there an easy explanation for
the difference?
iwasaki
"Christopher Johnson" <chris_jo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3F58704A...@yahoo.com...
> "Reinhold (Rey) Aman" wrote:
> [..]
> > http://www.sonic.net/maledicta/Reinhold-Aman.mp3 [24k]
>
> I've just listened to this, Rey. What a distinguished
> sounding voice you have! It's soothing and yet has just
> a slight hint of melancholy.
Ditto. Thank you, Dr. Aman.
--
Nobuko Iwasaki
Aaron J. Dinkin
> I'm a little curious about the great difference in the "r"s
> in "Reinhold" and "Rey". Is there an easy explanation for
> the difference?
Rey can speak for himself, of course, but at a guess, I'd say it's because
"Reinhold" is a German name, and gets a German pronunciation with [r"],
but "Rey" is an English nickname, and gets and English pronunciation with
[r].
-Aaron J. Dinkin
Dr. Whom
Evan Kirshenbaum
> "Bob" seems to be quite a common name, but what would you call each
> other, if you always have several Bobs around you? I have worked
> with a woman named "Miki", who had worked with two other Mikis.
> They got away with calling each other "Miki 1", "Miki 2", and "Miki
> 3".
A friend of mine has two employees named "José". The second quickly
became "Hose B".
When we named our son "Joshua", I had no idea how popular the name
would be that year. His best friend is named "Joshua". Two other
kids in his class last year (also good friends of his) were named
"Joshua". They get around this by referring to each other (and
calling each other, if there's more than one other around) as "Josh
K"[1], "Joshua A", "Joshua S", and "Joshua Y". Joshua A and Joshua S
were supposed to be in his kindergarten class this year, but Joshua S
moved to a different school district. Due to some law of Conservation
of Joshuas, he was replaced by Joshua E.
[1] My Josh informed us when he was three that he was "Josh", not
"Joshua" and made us take down the big puffy "U" and "A" from his
bedroom wall.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |If I may digress momentarily from
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |the mainstream of this evening's
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |symposium, I'd like to sing a song
|which is completely pointless.
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com | Tom Lehrer
(650)857-7572
R F
On Fri, 5 Sep 2003, Evan Kirshenbaum wrote:
> [1] My Josh informed us when he was three that he was "Josh", not
> "Joshua" and made us take down the big puffy "U" and "A" from his
> bedroom wall.
BTW, where is young Josh as far as cot and caught are concerned?
Simon R. Hughes
I hear you're on your way to Bermuda, Fabian. What's teh weatehr
like tehr?
--
Simon R. Hughes <!-- Kill "Kenny" for email. -->
<!-- 67 deg. 17' N; 14 deg. 23' E -->
Skitt
I meant the English "rain", and that is what I hear in your recording. I
listened to it over and over. I expected the sound to be as in the German
"Ei" (egg), but it's not there.
I'll listen again.
Definitely not the Hochdeutsch "Ei". You say it the same as in the nickname
"Rey" that follows, said the American way (hey, "way" rhymes too).
Jitze Couperus
<piano...@mtg.biglobe.ne.jp> wrote:
>I remember Bob Lieblich has once posted about the pronunciation of his
>family name, in which he says that "ch" in "Lieblich" is pronounced
>like "ch" in the German word "ich", but he doesn't bother most of the
>time. What should I call you, Mr. Lieblich? ['li:b,lIC] or ['li:b,lIk]?
>
>Pronunciation of names is tough. The topic about AUE posters' names
>pops up once in a while, and if I remember correctly, Donna Richoux is
>pronounced like "ri-shoe", and Laura F Spira is like "spy-ra", but I
>forget how to pronounce Padraig Breathnach. And should the "h" in Bob
>"Cunningham" be pronounced? How should Lars "Eighner" be pronounced?
>
>I would very much appreciate if there would be an ASCII IPA list of
>how-to-pronounce-AUE-regulars-names (or wav.files of their names)
>somewhere in the AUE website.
>
Being somewhat tripondial (American, English, Dutch) I fear there
are at least two distinct pronunciations in common use for
my monniker. I'll leave the ascii IPA to others (I'm terrible at it)
but take a shot at "informal ad hoc" thus
In the original Dutch "YITz@ coopEEr@s"
In American "JITzee COOPehrus"
If this representation is ambiguous, feel free to consult
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/couperusj/jitze.mp3
Jitze
R H Draney
>
>On Thu, 4 Sep 2003, R H Draney wrote:
>
>> ...that in mind, it's /'dreIni/ (we didn't routinely
>> change final [i] to [I] in southern California when I were growing up)...an
>> historical case could be made for /d@'reInI/....
>
>Japanese-Irish?
Just the latter...I was told both "d'Raney" and "DuRaney" by my father, whose
knowledge about the origin of the name is somewhat inconsistent...he also
reports a theory that the name was originally something like "Dreadhandonn"
which apparently would transcribe (close to) /'drejan@n/....r
Christopher Johnson
Indeed.
Rey's voice is superb, in my opinion.
--
Christopher
Skitt
> "Reinhold (Rey) Aman" wrote:
>> Skitt wrote:
>>> Skitt wrote:
>>>> Reinhold (Rey) Aman wrote:
>>>>> I've just made a primitive .wav sound file but don't
>>>>> think it's working. Try with the "Internet Explorer":
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.sonic.net/maledicta/RA.wav [180k!]
>>>>>
>>>>> It says "Reinhold Albert Aman / Rey / Maledicta."
>>>>>
>>>>> If someone can fix up this file, send it to me.
>>
>>>> It works for me.
>>
>>> I forgot to ask -- did you always pronounce your first name like in
>>> "rain", rather than the more common German way (to rhyme with the
>>> German "sein" and "mein")?
>>
>> If you meant English "rain," no. I don't hear that sound in the
>> recording. If you meant German "Rain," it rhymes 100% with "sein"
>> and "mein" and "rein." I use the sound of the German <ei>, which is
>> nasalised in Bavarian (my mother tongue).
>
> Okay, maybe it didn't work so well. I hear "Ray" not "Rye" --
> in both "Reinhold" and "Rey".
Exactly! It is not supposed to be that way if "Reinhold" is said the German
way.
Here's a small file of the way the vowels are supposed to sound:
www.geocities.com/opus731/Reinhold.wav
Bob Cunningham
(Jitze Couperus) said:
[ . . . ]
> Being somewhat tripondial (American, English, Dutch) I fear there
> are at least two distinct pronunciations in common use for
> my monniker. I'll leave the ascii IPA to others (I'm terrible at it)
> but take a shot at "informal ad hoc" thus
> In the original Dutch "YITz@ coopEEr@s"
> In American "JITzee COOPehrus"
Your sound file seems to have the primary stress on the
second syllable. That would make it more like "cooPEHrus".
> If this representation is ambiguous, feel free to consult
> http://pages.sbcglobal.net/couperusj/jitze.mp3
I've done some massaging of that file: highpass filtered to
reduce some noise, converted from stereo to mono, resampled
to 22050 Hz from 44100 Hz, snipped some dead time from front
and back, replaced a somewhat noisy pause in the middle with
dead silence, and cranked the volume up.
I've installed the modified file at
http://www.exw6sxq.com/sparky/aue_related/speech_examples/jitze_mono_22k.mp3
, or http://tinyurl.com/me6z .
If you, Jitze, don't approve of my doing this, let me know
and I'll remove the file immediately.
Bob Cunningham
<ski...@comcast.net> said:
[ . . . ]
> Here's a small file of the way the vowels are supposed to sound:
> www.geocities.com/opus731/Reinhold.wav
Who's speaking in that file?
Skitt
> "Skitt" said:
> [ . . . ]
>
>> Here's a small file of the way the vowels are supposed to sound:
>
>> www.geocities.com/opus731/Reinhold.wav
>
> Who's speaking in that file?
I am.
Raymond S. Wise
news:2t7glv0gnojngcli9...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 4 Sep 2003 12:20:53 -0400, R F <rfon...@mail.wesleyan.edu>
> wrote:
>
> >How should the "Bob" in "Bob Cunningham" be pronounced?
>
> Who would ask such a question, besides Richard, or could possibly give
> a rat's ass about the answer, since everyone from the early caveman to
> modern man knows, or knew, what it is?
When Edmund Blackadder, played by Rowan Atkinson, fell in love with a woman
disguised as a boy who went by the name "Bob," Atkinson and the actress
playing Bob very definitely pronounced the name in a manner which I, an
American Midwesterner, never would. So, even if a non-native speaker of
English had been taught one method of saying "Bob," he would not necessarily
say it as Bob Cunningham does. He might be curious about the question,
though.
However, I would advise him to pronounce "Bob" in the same manner he was
taught to pronounce the verb "bob" and other "ob"-final words.
--
Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com
Christopher Johnson
> However, I would advise him to pronounce "Bob" in the same manner he was
> taught to pronounce the verb "bob" and other "ob"-final words.
Including 'kebob'?
http://www.bartleby.com/61/70/K0027050.html
--
Christopher
Fabian
"Simon R. Hughes" <a5799...@yahoo.no> wrote in message
news:MPG.19c2e9e74...@news.online.no...
> Thus spake Fabian:
>
> I hear you're on your way to Bermuda, Fabian. What's teh weatehr
> like tehr?
I haven't a clue. And one side effect of that oxygen starvation episode,
is that I no longer seem to be able to spell the as "the". See? Can't do
it.
--
--
Fabian
Once you get over the initial panic stage, oxygen starvation is actually
a rather pleasant sensation, almost like falling asleep.
John Varela
<TPUBGTH.don't.use.this...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Actually, I was quite surprised to hear you speak with one. For some
> reason, I'd assumed you'd lost your accent. Can you turn it on and off
> at will? A close friend of mine speaks with a Southern accent. She
> deliberately turns it off while at work because she's found that many
> people, upon hearing her accent, assume she has an IQ of 72.
Thirty-plus years ago there was a manager at the FAA who was from Mansfield,
LA, up near the Arkansas border. He had a soft but not identifiably Southern
accent, so I asked him why not. He replied as you indicate, "Because if you
have a Southern accent everyone thinks you're stupid." He was nevertheless
generally referred to as "the Swamp Fox."
My New Orleans accent didn't sound particularly Southern except for a few
peculiar pronunciations, and I broke myself of saying "y'all" while still in
college. As I neared retirement I reverted to saying "y'all" because what the
hell it didn't matter anymore.
--
John Varela
Jitze Couperus
<exw...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>On Fri, 05 Sep 2003 18:54:23 GMT, couperu...@znet.com
>(Jitze Couperus) said:
>
>[ . . . ]
>
>> Being somewhat tripondial (American, English, Dutch) I fear there
>> are at least two distinct pronunciations in common use for
>> my monniker. I'll leave the ascii IPA to others (I'm terrible at it)
>> but take a shot at "informal ad hoc" thus
>
>> In the original Dutch "YITz@ coopEEr@s"
>
>> In American "JITzee COOPehrus"
>
>Your sound file seems to have the primary stress on the
>second syllable. That would make it more like "cooPEHrus".
>
Yep - you're right come to think of it...
>I've done some massaging of that file: highpass filtered to
>reduce some noise, converted from stereo to mono, resampled
>to 22050 Hz from 44100 Hz, snipped some dead time from front
>and back, replaced a somewhat noisy pause in the middle with
>dead silence, and cranked the volume up.
>
>I've installed the modified file at
>http://www.exw6sxq.com/sparky/aue_related/speech_examples/jitze_mono_22k.mp3
>, or http://tinyurl.com/me6z .
>
>If you, Jitze, don't approve of my doing this, let me know
>and I'll remove the file immediately.
>
Sounds good to me - glad you have the tools to do it...
Also that means I can now remove the mp3 from my own
site and free up some space without feeling guilty... I'll
leave it there for a little while, but then it goes into the
bit bucket. (I've never heard of a bit pail)
Jitze
Tony Cooper
<chris_jo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>"Reinhold (Rey) Aman" wrote:
>
>[..]
>
>> http://www.sonic.net/maledicta/Reinhold-Aman.mp3 [24k]
>
>
>
>I've just listened to this, Rey. What a distinguished
>sounding voice you have! It's soothing and yet has just
>a slight hint of melancholy.
>
The last time I heard that voice it was saying "The special tonight is
rolladen mit spätzle, rotkraut, and ochsenschwarz suppe." The speaker
was a rather melancholy looking man with drooping jowls and wearing a
shiny black suit and a stained white apron. Cheap shoes.
He suggested the fruchtboden mit quark for afters, and it was a good
choice.
Martin Ambuhl
> Being somewhat tripondial (American, English, Dutch) I fear there
> are at least two distinct pronunciations in common use for
> my monniker.
I have been trying to identify the three ponds, but without success. Are
you sure you did not mean trilittoral?
--
Martin Ambuhl
Raymond S. Wise
Yes, indeed.
You did inspire me, however, to do a search for "ob"-final words in
*Merriam-Webster's Collegiate,* 11th ed., to see if there were any which did
not rhyme with "bob." Indeed there were: Of 60 hits (some of which must be
counted as a word being represented more than once and some of which were
abbreviations), five did not rhyme with "bob": "boob," "carob,"
"Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease," "haboob," and "Jacob."
Charles Riggs
<tony_co...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Fri, 05 Sep 2003 11:14:31 GMT, Christopher Johnson
><chris_jo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>"Reinhold (Rey) Aman" wrote:
>>
>>[..]
>>
>>> http://www.sonic.net/maledicta/Reinhold-Aman.mp3 [24k]
>>
>>
>>
>>I've just listened to this, Rey. What a distinguished
>>sounding voice you have! It's soothing and yet has just
>>a slight hint of melancholy.
>>
>
>The last time I heard that voice it was saying "The special tonight is
>rolladen mit spätzle, rotkraut, and ochsenschwarz suppe." The speaker
>was a rather melancholy looking man with drooping jowls and wearing a
>shiny black suit and a stained white apron. Cheap shoes.
Someone with a schnozzle as humongous as yours is in no position to
criticize someone else's appearance. Rey, in fact, has a pleasant,
scholarly appearance. It comes as no surprise to learn he has a
distinguished-sounding voice.
--
Charles Riggs
For email, take the air out of aircom
and replace with eir
Reinhold (Rey) Aman
> Reinhold (Rey) Aman wrote:
> } Skitt wrote:
[...]
> }> I forgot to ask -- did you always pronounce your first name
> }> like in "rain",
[...]
> } I use the sound of the German <ei>, which is
> } nasalised in Bavarian (my mother tongue).
> I'll tell you what I heard (and give Bob Cunningham another chance
> to say I have a tin ear). I hear the German "ei", but it wasn't far
> from the way an English "ai" would sound if you didn't spread the
> lips into a smile ("ai" with rounding, as it were). But let me back
> up a bit.
If you nasalise the <ai> in English "rain," you'd get the Bavarian <ei~>.
> The first quarter of a second, I couldn't tell if you dropped the
> microphone or were editorializing maledictally on dropping it or
> both.
I picked up the little mike, looked at the screen, then clicked on RECORD.
> Then there was a gap. Then it sounded like you were starting an
> uvular trill (or whatever they call it in the trade) for a German
> start-of-word "r", except that it wasn't working at first and you
> had to kick start it a little, then you got a single uvular flap out
> of it suffficient for the "r", and finished the rest of "Reinhold"
> in German fashion well understandable in English.
I used the Bavarian (and French-Canadian) trilled single-flap <r>, not
the German/French uvular one (but Germans also use the trilled one,
depending on the region, as do some French).
> The "Albert" was of course the German
> "AHLbairt", and the "Aman" would be surprising mainly to someone
> expecting the accent on the second syllable, possibly surprising in
> French or Japanese.
>
> I don't know if I have all the ASCII IPA characters straight, but
>(from memory), it was something like [@'xajn,holt 'al,be@Ct 'a,man]
There's no [C] in "Albert": ['al bEat]; I vocalize the /r/ into /a/;
also, there's no secondary stress on the last syllable.
> (the "Rey" and the "maledicta" being unremarkable). All in all,
> just about what I'd expect pronouncing it all the German way, and I
> didn't really hear anything I'd have to attribute to Bavarianness.
The nasalised <ei~> in "Rein-" is Bavarian, which is unlike the
non-nasalised English <ai> in "rain." I didn't pronounce my name the
_Bühnendeutsch_ (artificial stage-German) way, just German with a
touch of Bavarian.
> It's a little different than I'd pronounce it in English, like if I
> were calling you up to receive an award, but that's just because I
> don't generally use non-English sounds in English. I wouldn't mind
> seeing what Bob Cunningham can do using Praat on the sample, but it
> may be better if I don't mention it. (Oops!) I'd also be
> interested in Prof. von Taunau's comments.
What's interesting is how you heard "Reinhold" as [@'xajn,holt].
First, I don't unvoice the final <-d> to /t/ as in Standard German and
Yiddish but use the Bavarian variant, which is a sound between a
voiced /d/ and an unvoiced /t/: an unvoiced /d/. In my Bavarian, /p/,
/t/ and /k/ are softened to unvoiced /b/, /d/ and /g/ (the last not in
all cases).
Second, and skipping the [@'-] noise, the [x] /kh-/ as in _Loch_ is
actually a [C] as in _ich_.
Third, the single-flap trilled /r/ is there, preceded by an /h-/, as
in /hr-/. I've tried to get rid of the /h-/ by several recordings but
couldn't. Now this is fascinating to me, because in Modern German and
Modern English, the initial consonant cluster /hr-/ has disappeared
and become either /h-/ as in "horse" or /r-/ in its German cognate
"Ross." Old High German and Old English had oodles of words beginning
with <hr-> -- think of _Beowulf_'s "Hring-Dene" -- as did other
Germanic languages, but this initial <hr-> cluster survived only in
Modern Icelandic to my knowledge.
Now, Modern German "Rein-" in _Reinhold_, English "Reyn-" in _Reynold_
and "Regin-" in _Reginald_ are all derived from the Germanic, some
2000-year-old noun _hragin_ meaning "advice." While I don't pronounce
other German or Bavarian words with the initial /hr-/, why does this
ancient cluster show up in the sound file of my first name? Am I
atavistic, or what?
--
Reinhold (Rey) Aman
who, way back, used to be Hraginhvaltan Ambahtmanno
R J Valentine
} R{udi} J{acques} Valentine wrote:
}
}> Reinhold (Rey) Aman wrote:
}
}> } Skitt wrote:
}
} [...]
}
}> }> I forgot to ask -- did you always pronounce your first name
}> }> like in "rain",
}
} [...]
}
}> } I use the sound of the German <ei>, which is
}> } nasalised in Bavarian (my mother tongue).
}
}> I'll tell you what I heard (and give Bob Cunningham another chance
}> to say I have a tin ear). I hear the German "ei", but it wasn't far
}> from the way an English "ai" would sound if you didn't spread the
}> lips into a smile ("ai" with rounding, as it were). But let me back
}> up a bit.
}
} If you nasalise the <ai> in English "rain," you'd get the Bavarian <ei~>.
See now I'm not picking up any nasalization there, but maybe I just don't
know from nasalization. But I got a different sound in the "Reinhold"
than in the "Rey", for sure. I also listened to Skitt's recording of
"Reinhold Albert Aman" and found it to be authentically-enough German
also. What difference I could detect in the first diphthong in the two
Reinhold's might be accounted for by whatever is going on in the accent of
Baltimore's Judith Cr@mmick (I can't figure out if she's saying "Crammick"
or "Cremmick" or "Crummick"; I ask my wife and she says she's saying
"Cr@mmick" and I say, 'Yeah, but is that "Crammick" or "Cremmick" or
"Crummick"?' and she just shrugs (maybe someone will google it and show me
up; she's on WBJC, the voice of the Baltimore City Community College))
when she says "I" (which for me would be more like [a:j]) as [ai:] in a
way that strikes me as Irish (though I think she said she's from England
(but then maybe she was translating for Americans)). In other words,
Rey's sounded more like [ai:], where Skitt's sounded more like [a:j]
(though they were both to me pretty close to what I'd expect in German,
as distinct from Irish English or [American] English).
Here's where Bob Cunningham's talent with Praat could be put to good use,
comparing the two.
}> The first quarter of a second, I couldn't tell if you dropped the
}> microphone or were editorializing maledictally on dropping it or
}> both.
}
} I picked up the little mike, looked at the screen, then clicked on RECORD.
Well, you can say that, but another poster (Jitze Couperus
<couperu...@znet.com>) mentioned a similar noise, presumably
independently. Maybe we've just come to expect it, which may touch on my
next point:
}> Then there was a gap. Then it sounded like you were starting an
}> uvular trill (or whatever they call it in the trade) for a German
}> start-of-word "r", except that it wasn't working at first and you
}> had to kick start it a little, then you got a single uvular flap out
}> of it suffficient for the "r", and finished the rest of "Reinhold"
}> in German fashion well understandable in English.
}
} I used the Bavarian (and French-Canadian) trilled single-flap <r>, not
} the German/French uvular one (but Germans also use the trilled one,
} depending on the region, as do some French).
Okay, I believe that, and it's consistent with what I heard, but it also
touches on discourses on the "r" in "Albert" and back again to the "R" in
"Reinhold" below. I caught the single-flap and the sound before it and
blamed it on the uvula.
}> The "Albert" was of course the German
}> "AHLbairt", and the "Aman" would be surprising mainly to someone
}> expecting the accent on the second syllable, possibly surprising in
}> French or Japanese.
}>
}> I don't know if I have all the ASCII IPA characters straight, but
}>(from memory), it was something like [@'xajn,holt 'al,be@Ct 'a,man]
}
} There's no [C] in "Albert": ['al bEat]; I vocalize the /r/ into /a/;
Okay, I'm ready to believe I imagined that; but, having blamed the first
single-flap on the uvula, that was the way I was leaning. Compare that
for instance with the two of Skitt's r's, both of which strike me as
uvular (or glottal: I don't think I know the difference) fricatives, which
was what I assumed was going on in Rey's "Albert".
} also, there's no secondary stress on the last syllable.
If you say so. I expect schwaness (both indistinctness and
shortness) with unstressedness, and I was getting a whole lot of
articulation in the [Ea], but less stress than in the first syllable.
}> (the "Rey" and the "maledicta" being unremarkable). All in all,
}> just about what I'd expect pronouncing it all the German way, and I
}> didn't really hear anything I'd have to attribute to Bavarianness.
}
} The nasalised <ei~> in "Rein-" is Bavarian, which is unlike the
} non-nasalised English <ai> in "rain." I didn't pronounce my name the
} _Bühnendeutsch_ (artificial stage-German) way, just German with a
} touch of Bavarian.
(Ah hah! So Prof. F pronounces the Bühnenenglisch (PSS) way.)
I'm not noticing it as Bavarian, just as barely different from Skitt's
way.
}> It's a little different than I'd pronounce it in English, like if I
}> were calling you up to receive an award, but that's just because I
}> don't generally use non-English sounds in English. I wouldn't mind
}> seeing what Bob Cunningham can do using Praat on the sample, but it
}> may be better if I don't mention it. (Oops!) I'd also be
}> interested in Prof. von Taunau's comments.
}
} What's interesting is how you heard "Reinhold" as [@'xajn,holt].
} First, I don't unvoice the final <-d> to /t/ as in Standard German and
} Yiddish but use the Bavarian variant, which is a sound between a
} voiced /d/ and an unvoiced /t/: an unvoiced /d/. In my Bavarian, /p/,
} /t/ and /k/ are softened to unvoiced /b/, /d/ and /g/ (the last not in
} all cases).
In English I'm more used to picking up that cue from the preceding vowel,
so I may well have missed it there.
} Second, and skipping the [@'-] noise, the [x] /kh-/ as in _Loch_ is
} actually a [C] as in _ich_.
Wait a second. Now I'm confused. I thought you meant before that you did
your "Reinhold" "R" as an _apical_ single-flap (where I heard it as a
single-flapped [x] as in _Loch_, rather than _ich_), and I transcribed it
as [x] there because it was different from the [C] that I thought I heard
in your "Albert" (and that I still think I hear in Skitt's). If now
you're telling me that the "Reinhold" "R" is going on in the back of the
mouth, I'd be happy to revise my hearing of that to [C] and of the
"Albert" one to [a], because it would mean I don't have quite as much of a
tin ear as I was worried I had.
} Third, the single-flap trilled /r/ is there, preceded by an /h-/, as
} in /hr-/. I've tried to get rid of the /h-/ by several recordings but
} couldn't. Now this is fascinating to me, because in Modern German and
} Modern English, the initial consonant cluster /hr-/ has disappeared
} and become either /h-/ as in "horse" or /r-/ in its German cognate
} "Ross." Old High German and Old English had oodles of words beginning
} with <hr-> -- think of _Beowulf_'s "Hring-Dene" -- as did other
} Germanic languages, but this initial <hr-> cluster survived only in
} Modern Icelandic to my knowledge.
I'm particularly interested in that sound, because my great-grandmother's
name was Rostucher, where her patrilineal ancestor before the Thirty Years
War spelled it something like Roßtäuscher (Rosstaeuscher). I'm glad now I
mentioned it.
} Now, Modern German "Rein-" in _Reinhold_, English "Reyn-" in _Reynold_
} and "Regin-" in _Reginald_ are all derived from the Germanic, some
} 2000-year-old noun _hragin_ meaning "advice." While I don't pronounce
} other German or Bavarian words with the initial /hr-/, why does this
} ancient cluster show up in the sound file of my first name? Am I
} atavistic, or what?
In spades.
} --
} Reinhold (Rey) Aman
} who, way back, used to be Hraginhvaltan Ambahtmanno
Back in the thirties, I'm guessing. You're old.
--
R. J. Valentine <mailto:r...@smart.net>
Reinhold (Rey) Aman
> Christopher Johnson wrote:
> > Reinhold (Rey) Aman wrote:
> > > http://www.sonic.net/maledicta/Reinhold-Aman.mp3 [24k]
> > I've just listened to this, Rey. What a distinguished
> > sounding voice you have! It's soothing and yet has just
> > a slight hint of melancholy.
Thank you, Christopher, but please don't praise me in public. It
drives your pathologically envious, obsessed, attention-hungry buddy
C**per nuts, as you can see by his "humorous" comments about my voice.
> Ditto. Thank you, Dr. Aman.
And please don't call me "doctor," Mrs. Iwakasi. Here and in real
life I'm just "Rey." I leave the "Dr." title to pathetic arseholes
like Robin Bignall, American Doctors of Education, and sociologists.
--
Reinhold (Rey) Aman
a humble man with much to be humble about
Reinhold (Rey) Aman
> Reinhold (Rey) Aman posted thus:
> > Perhaps I'll just read the first paragraph or two. Too bad that
> > text isn't something erotic to get Dena Jo, Anna, and Muffy all
> > hot and bothered while listening to my Continental charm.
> > {Hi, Lisi!}
> Ah, even that small little snippet of an accent was enough.
Oooooh, you're an easy one (in the best sense of the word). My kind
of woman.
> Actually, I was quite surprised to hear you speak with one. For
> some reason, I'd assumed you'd lost your accent. Can you turn it
> on and off at will?
[...]
No, too late. When one learns a new language after the age of 12 or
14, one will almost always retain some accent indicating one's mother
tongue. This is caused primarily by the rote position and shape of
the tongue and lips when producing sounds. For this reason it's easy
to spot an East Indian with his retroflex /t/ and a Russian with his
"dark" /l/.
--
Reinhold (Rey) Aman
who, at times, has no control over his tongue
Christopher Johnson
> Thank you, Christopher, but please don't praise me in public. It
> drives your pathologically envious, obsessed, attention-hungry buddy
> C**per nuts, as you can see by his "humorous" comments about my voice.
Uh, oh! Sorry, Rey! But point taken; I do think Tony was
being somewhat unpleasant towards you, which is most
unfortunate and a great pity, as I like both you and him.
--
Christopher
Mike Oliver
Do you also root for both UCLA and USC?
(Actually, I'll cop to that one. I've been known to root
for USC on occasion. Don't tell anyone.)
Oliver Cromm
> "Reinhold (Rey) Aman" <am...@sonic.net> wrote:
>>
>> http://www.sonic.net/maledicta/RA.wav [180k!]
>>
>> It says "Reinhold Albert Aman / Rey / Maledicta."
> [...]
> I always wondered whether "Rey" was "Ray"
> or "Rye", and now I know.
There is a tricky issue about languages and dialects - or more generally
varieties - involved here. Reinhold's natural pronunciation in his native
Bavarian accent is "Ray...", but I think this doesn't affect that the
correct pronunciation *for me* as a speaker of another variant of German
would be "Rye...". So in a way, it is both "Ray" and "Rye".
Christopher Johnson
> Christopher Johnson wrote:
> > "Reinhold (Rey) Aman" wrote:
> >> Thank you, Christopher, but please don't praise me in public. It
> >> drives your pathologically envious, obsessed, attention-hungry buddy
> >> C**per nuts, as you can see by his "humorous" comments about my voice.
> >
> > Uh, oh! Sorry, Rey! But point taken; I do think Tony was
> > being somewhat unpleasant towards you, which is most
> > unfortunate and a great pity, as I like both you and him.
>
> Do you also root for both UCLA and USC?
No, at least not in the Australian sense of the expression.
[..]
--
Christopher
Areff
> R{udi} J{acques} Valentine wrote:
>
> > Then there was a gap. Then it sounded like you were starting an
> > uvular trill (or whatever they call it in the trade) for a German
> > start-of-word "r", except that it wasn't working at first and you
> > had to kick start it a little, then you got a single uvular flap out
> > of it suffficient for the "r", and finished the rest of "Reinhold"
> > in German fashion well understandable in English.
>
> I used the Bavarian (and French-Canadian) trilled single-flap <r>, not
> the German/French uvular one (but Germans also use the trilled one,
> depending on the region, as do some French).
...
> > I'd also be
> > interested in Prof. von Taunau's comments.
>
> What's interesting is how you heard "Reinhold" as [@'xajn,holt].
...
> Third, the single-flap trilled /r/ is there, preceded by an /h-/, as
> in /hr-/. I've tried to get rid of the /h-/ by several recordings but
> couldn't. Now this is fascinating to me, because in Modern German and
> Modern English, the initial consonant cluster /hr-/ has disappeared
> and become either /h-/ as in "horse" or /r-/ in its German cognate
> "Ross." Old High German and Old English had oodles of words beginning
> with <hr-> -- think of _Beowulf_'s "Hring-Dene" -- as did other
> Germanic languages, but this initial <hr-> cluster survived only in
> Modern Icelandic to my knowledge.
>
> Now, Modern German "Rein-" in _Reinhold_, English "Reyn-" in _Reynold_
> and "Regin-" in _Reginald_ are all derived from the Germanic, some
> 2000-year-old noun _hragin_ meaning "advice." While I don't pronounce
> other German or Bavarian words with the initial /hr-/, why does this
> ancient cluster show up in the sound file of my first name? Am I
> atavistic, or what?
Just one comment from Prof. von Taunau here. Well, two. First, I also
thought you were editorializing maledictally at the beginning, though
it seemed almost like a palimpsest sort of leftover from some other
recording, which of course can't be. Though I think Jitze is
right about it being more of a 'cot' than a 'cut'. Second, I
definitely heard that initial /hr/. In fact, I wondered at first if
you were saying "Herr Reinhold" (NTTAWWT).
The final <d> seemed [d], not [t], to me.
iwasaki
"Reinhold (Rey) Aman" <am...@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:3F597C0C...@sonic.net...
>
> And please don't call me "doctor," Mrs. Iwakasi. Here and in real
> life I'm just "Rey." I leave the "Dr." title to pathetic arseholes
> like Robin Bignall, American Doctors of Education, and sociologists.
Okay, Rey. And please call me "Nobuko", with the u-umlaut for the "u".
--
Nobuko Iwasaki
iwasaki
"R J Valentine" <r...@smart.net> wrote in message
news:vlg5voa...@corp.supernews.com...
> On Thu, 4 Sep 2003 19:37:29 -0700 Skitt <ski...@comcast.net> wrote:
> ...
> } Well, the only reason I am at the top of the list is because that
regular,
> } and possibly another one or two, specifically asked to be removed from
it.
>
> Who's that? I haven't checked lately, because anymore the URLs seem to be
> of the tinyurl sort exclusively, and they're against my religion. I used
> to check from time to time back when the full URLs were posted, but I
> don't think I ever made the top 25, so I'm not likely to be confused with
> the regulars.
Unfortunately(?), you are now in the rank 25, and I'm definitely
confusing you with the regulars. As I have always been.
> You're not saying that Prof. F asked off the list, are you?
I'm afraid so.
> But it's /'v&l@n,tajn/ (with the same sort of rhythm as Cunningham), just
> like everyone usually pronounces it, though telemarketers seldom make the
> connection. (It reminds me, though, that my bank has started
> corresponding with me in Spanish, probably because I usually take the
> Spanish option on the ATM (and would take any other non-English language
> they offered, if they did, just to make it interesting).) And /'ar,dZej/
> (where form letters and some telemarketers seem to want to make do with
> "R", and relatives barely over calling me with a diminutive of my father's
> name sometimes try /,ar'dZej/).
I'm not sure of the sound [j]. How is /'v&l@n,tajn/ or /'ar,dZej/
different from /'v&l@n,tain/ or /'v&l@n,taIn/; /'ar,dZei/ or /'ar,dZeI/?
--
Nobuko Iwasaki
iwasaki
"iwasaki" <piano...@mtg.biglobe.ne.jp> wrote in message
news:bjcrum$hnt58$3...@ID-136331.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> Unfortunately(?), you are now in the rank 25, and I'm definitely
> confusing you with the regulars. As I have always been.
Oh, I'm sorry! I think I'm confused with the meaning of confuse.
--
Nobuko Iwasaki
Christopher Johnson
> Oh, I'm sorry! I think I'm confused with the meaning of confuse.
You think you're confused *now*? Wait till someone accuses
you of being a certain 'Christopher Johnson'; it'll force
you to reassess your entire comprehension of 'confusion' in
a whole new light.
--
Christopher
Aaron J. Dinkin
> I'm not sure of the sound [j]. How is /'v&l@n,tajn/ or /'ar,dZej/
> different from /'v&l@n,tain/ or /'v&l@n,taIn/; /'ar,dZei/ or /'ar,dZeI/?
[j] is the same sound as [i]. It's written as [i] when it's the nucleus of
a syllable, and when it's written [j] it's being used consonantally.
There's some middle ground where the sound is part of a diphthong but not
the nucleus of it, and there it's sometimes seen as [i] and sometimes as
[j].
-Aaron J. Dinkin
Dr. Whom
Skitt
I had to -- my sister was head librarian at UCLA, and her husband was the
same at USC.
Padraig Breathnach
>On Fri, 5 Sep 2003 00:49:47 +0900, "iwasaki"
><piano...@mtg.biglobe.ne.jp> said:
>
>[ . . . ]
>
>> And should the "h" in Bob "Cunningham" be pronounced?
>
>Yes. It's ['kVniN,h&m] (secondary stress on the second
>syllable), as might be said of a *cunning* ham, a ham who's
>cunning as opposed to a ham who's dull-witted.
>
>I suppose there are people called "Cunningham" who want to
>have it pronounced ['kVniN@m] ("CUNNINGuhm"), but I'm not
>one of them. I've had people pronounce my name that way,
>but it makes me shudder a little.
>
>(Is a wince a little shudder?)
Most Cunninghams I know (in the country where the name originated) do
not pronounce the "h".
But Bob owns his name, and if he prefers the "h", he may have it.
If he visits Ireland, however, he may do a lot of shuddering.
PB
Padraig Breathnach
Martin Ambuhl
So how does one actually say that voiced alveoar flap between the /k/ and
/p/? I tried using the /*/ from my American pronunciation of butter
/'bV*R/, but couldn't quite manage it.
--
Martin Ambuhl
J. J. Lodder
> On Fri, 5 Sep 2003 00:49:47 +0900, "iwasaki"
> <piano...@mtg.biglobe.ne.jp> wrote:
>
> >I remember Bob Lieblich has once posted about the pronunciation of his
> >family name, in which he says that "ch" in "Lieblich" is pronounced
> >like "ch" in the German word "ich", but he doesn't bother most of the
> >time. What should I call you, Mr. Lieblich? ['li:b,lIC] or ['li:b,lIk]?
> >
> >Pronunciation of names is tough. The topic about AUE posters' names
> >pops up once in a while, and if I remember correctly, Donna Richoux is
> >pronounced like "ri-shoe", and Laura F Spira is like "spy-ra", but I
> >forget how to pronounce Padraig Breathnach. And should the "h" in Bob
> >"Cunningham" be pronounced? How should Lars "Eighner" be pronounced?
> >
> >I would very much appreciate if there would be an ASCII IPA list of
> >how-to-pronounce-AUE-regulars-names (or wav.files of their names)
> >somewhere in the AUE website.
> >
>
> Being somewhat tripondial (American, English, Dutch) I fear there
> are at least two distinct pronunciations in common use for
> my monniker. I'll leave the ascii IPA to others (I'm terrible at it)
> but take a shot at "informal ad hoc" thus
>
> In the original Dutch "YITz@ coopEEr@s"
>
> In American "JITzee COOPehrus"
Even in the original Dutch the typically Frisian 'Jitze'
is an unexpectected first name for a Couperus.
Or was Couperus a Frisian name to begin with?
Jan
Bob Cunningham
<padr...@iol.ie> said:
[ . . . ]
> Most Cunninghams I know (in the country where the name originated) do
> not pronounce the "h".
How sure are you that the name originated in Ireland and not
in Scotland? The "cunning" part is said to be related to
"cony", an old word for "rabbit", and there are those who
seem to know who say that "Cunningham" derives from a
"rabbit farm in Ayrshire".
Also, there are not-so-old maps that show a county named
"Cunningham" -- maybe with a slightly different spelling --
in the western part of Scotland.
I could easily believe that the first Cunninghams in Ireland
came from Scotland.
> But Bob owns his name, and if he prefers the "h", he may have it.
Before I owned it, it belonged to my great grandparents, who
came from Scotland. I have no reason to doubt that they
brought the secondarily-stressed "ham" from Scotland and
that it has been handed down faithfully from generation to
generation, being now firmly established among by
grandchildren.
My only great-grandchild, so far, has a Norwegian name.
(She's a resident of Longyearbyen.)
> If he visits Ireland, however, he may do a lot of shuddering.
I don't remember doing any shuddering when I visited
Scotland.
Don Aitken
<exw...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>On Sat, 06 Sep 2003 22:07:02 +0100, Padraig Breathnach
><padr...@iol.ie> said:
>
>[ . . . ]
>
>> Most Cunninghams I know (in the country where the name originated) do
>> not pronounce the "h".
>
>How sure are you that the name originated in Ireland and not
>in Scotland? The "cunning" part is said to be related to
>"cony", an old word for "rabbit", and there are those who
>seem to know who say that "Cunningham" derives from a
>"rabbit farm in Ayrshire".
>
>Also, there are not-so-old maps that show a county named
>"Cunningham" -- maybe with a slightly different spelling --
>in the western part of Scotland.
>
I don't think it was ever a county, but there is certainly still a
district of Ayrshire called Cunninghame, which gives its name to the
parliamentary constituencies of Cunninghame North and Cunninghame
South.
>I could easily believe that the first Cunninghams in Ireland
>came from Scotland.
>
>> But Bob owns his name, and if he prefers the "h", he may have it.
>
>Before I owned it, it belonged to my great grandparents, who
>came from Scotland. I have no reason to doubt that they
>brought the secondarily-stressed "ham" from Scotland and
>that it has been handed down faithfully from generation to
>generation, being now firmly established among by
>grandchildren.
>
I think you are right that the "h" would normally be pronounced in
Scotland. Not so in England, where the name is also not uncommon.
--
Don Aitken
R F
On Sun, 7 Sep 2003, Bob Cunningham wrote:
> Before I owned it, it belonged to my great grandparents, who
> came from Scotland. I have no reason to doubt that they
> brought the secondarily-stressed "ham" from Scotland and
> that it has been handed down faithfully from generation to
> generation, being now firmly established among by
> grandchildren.
The way you say it is also the standard AmE pronunciation of the surname,
I think it's safe to say. It's so pronounced in the case of the two most
famous Cunninghams: Merce Cunningham and Richie Cunningham.
Tony Cooper
wrote:
>On Sun, 07 Sep 2003 00:05:59 GMT, Bob Cunningham
><exw...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 06 Sep 2003 22:07:02 +0100, Padraig Breathnach
>><padr...@iol.ie> said:
>>
>>[ . . . ]
>>
>>> Most Cunninghams I know (in the country where the name originated) do
>>> not pronounce the "h".
>>
>>How sure are you that the name originated in Ireland and not
>>in Scotland? The "cunning" part is said to be related to
>>"cony", an old word for "rabbit", and there are those who
>>seem to know who say that "Cunningham" derives from a
>>"rabbit farm in Ayrshire".
>>
>>Also, there are not-so-old maps that show a county named
>>"Cunningham" -- maybe with a slightly different spelling --
>>in the western part of Scotland.
>>
>I don't think it was ever a county, but there is certainly still a
>district of Ayrshire called Cunninghame, which gives its name to the
>parliamentary constituencies of Cunninghame North and Cunninghame
>South.
>
>>I could easily believe that the first Cunninghams in Ireland
>>came from Scotland.
Christopher Johnson
[..]
> the two most famous Cunninghams: Merce Cunningham and Richie
> Cunningham.
Utter tosh, RF. The most famous 'Cunningham' is one
Professor *Pádraig* Cunningham:
http://www.cs.tcd.ie/Padraig.Cunningham/
--
Christopher
Michael West
"Bob Cunningham" <exw...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:j3sklvsuvjp3c0b86...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 06 Sep 2003 22:07:02 +0100, Padraig Breathnach
> > But Bob owns his name, and if he prefers the "h", he may have it.
>
> Before I owned it, it belonged to my great grandparents, who
> came from Scotland. I have no reason to doubt that they
> brought the secondarily-stressed "ham" from Scotland and
> that it has been handed down faithfully from generation to
> generation, being now firmly established among by
> grandchildren.
That would surprise me. Most children, I think,
are influenced even in the pronunciation of their names
by the common pronunciations they hear -- both inside
and outside the family circle -- when growing up. It
would be rare, I think, for an ancient pronunciation of
such a common name to remain unaffected over several
generations in different parts of the world.
My stepfather's family name was "Durham", pronounced
everywhere in the UK (or so I am told) with a silent aitch,
as his ancestors would have pronounced it.
However, in the US I often heard a distinct "ham" for the
second syllable, and his children often sound the aitch when
stating their names in ordinary business transactions. I would
expect that over time, should the "ham" pronunciation become
the most common one in the US, its dominance will influence
the pronunciation even of people who own the name.
--
Michael West
Melbourne, Australia
Bob Cunningham
I don't know for sure, but I would guess that Glenn
Cunningham was more famous in his day than Merce has been in
his.
I never heard of Richie except when someone would grin when
I told them my name and ask me if I was related to Richie.
I eventually learned that that was the name of a character
on some TV show, but I never watched the show myself. Maybe
my kids did.
I don't know how famous Allan Cunningham was, but I think he
rates space in encyclopedias. All I know about him is that
he wrote "A Wet Sheet and a Flowing Sea". I never read it,
but I've always hoped that it was about sailing and not
about the first thing that comes to mind when you hear it.
How famous was the famous photographer Imogen Cunningham?
R J Valentine
What he said. I don't make any particular distinction (yet), and I'd
probably answer to any of them.
Charles Riggs
<chris_jo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>R F wrote:
>
>[..]
>
>> the two most famous Cunninghams: Merce Cunningham and Richie
>> Cunningham.
>
>
>Utter tosh, RF. The most famous 'Cunningham' is one
>Professor *Pádraig* Cunningham:
Bull.
ObAUE:
The only notable Cunningham of history was the evil Charles Cunningham
Boycott. He was the rotten estate manager in County Mayo who evicted
tenants after refusing to reduce rents on the poor. He was, therefore,
"boycotted" by Parnell, along with many other good people in Ireland
who followed the great man's suit. The bastard soon left the country,
in disgrace.
--
Charles Riggs
For email, take the air out of aircom
and replace with eir