Show us your haboobs!
R H Draney
over the use of the word "haboob" to describe the sixty-mile-long wall of dust
that blew through town recently...the press loves the word, but some of the
unpressed citizenry are offended by the use of an Arabic word for what they
would prefer to call a "dust storm", displacing an earlier controversy over
"monsoon" for our summer rainy season....
I have two questions stemming from the current dust-up:
(1) what's the ultimate derivation of the words "dust" and "storm", and do
either of them come from a place with a climate and geography like that of
Arizona? (or at least more like Arizona's climate than that of north Africa or
the Middle East?)
(2) if we're going to set our own weather eccentricities apart, perhaps we
should use the oldest available term for *this* kind of dust storm...anybody
know what that word would be in Apache?...r
--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.
Stephen
I think we should drop using the Japanese word "tsunami". How
disrespectful to all the brave valiant soldiers who fought against the
horror of Japanese invasion! Is there no honour?
Then there are the German and Italian words, which need to be eradicated
too since those nations also fought against us allies.
--
Stephen
Ballina, NSW
Bertel Lund Hansen
> I think we should drop using the Japanese word "tsunami". How
> disrespectful to all the brave valiant soldiers who fought against the
> horror of Japanese invasion! Is there no honour?
> Then there are the German and Italian words, which need to be eradicated
> too since those nations also fought against us allies.
I can help you clean out all the Danish words. We fought the
English in 1066, and they were some of your ancestors.
--
Bertel, Denmark
Harrison Hill
You lost that battle!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Stamford_Bridge
The Normans were French speaking.
Stephen
> (1) what's the ultimate derivation of the words "dust" and "storm", and do
> either of them come from a place with a climate and geography like that of
> Arizona? (or at least more like Arizona's climate than that of north Africa or
> the Middle East?)
Dust: Old English with Old Frisian, Dutch and German cognates.
Storm: Old English with Dutch, German and Old Norse cognates, developing
from Germanic origins.
>
> (2) if we're going to set our own weather eccentricities apart, perhaps we
> should use the oldest available term for*this* kind of dust storm...anybody
> know what that word would be in Apache?...r
>
Why Apache?
http://www.bookrags.com/tandf/north-and-central-american-tf/
Routledge Dictionary of Language and Linguistics
"Before colonization, about 200-300 languages were spoken in North
America by approx. 1.5 million inhabitants; these languages can be
divided into numerous language families and language isolates...
...Suarez (1983) suggests seven language families and seven isolates,
and Greenberg (1956, 1987) assigns all languages of North, Central and
South America, with the exception of the Na-Dené and Eskimo-Aleut
languages, to one large Amerindian group. According to Greenberg, the
speakers of Amerindian represent the oldest wave of immigrants,"
OR
"The Santa Barbara International Film Festival this year will honor the
Wôpanâak language, one of the oldest languages in the United States
(also known as Massachusetts or Wampanoag language), with the screening
of Anne Makepeace’s documentary "Âs Nutayuneân".
Since this is an Amerindian group language, and the first American
Indian language into which the bible was translated, it's probably going
to have some of the oldest forms for such words.
Unfortunately, I can't find a dictionary for this (dead) language).
--
Stephen
Ballina, NSW
Stephen
Thank you! I'd forgotten those bastards.
--
Stephen
Ballina, NSW
R H Draney
>
>On 20/07/2011 1:20 PM, R H Draney wrote:
>>
>> (2) if we're going to set our own weather eccentricities apart, perhaps we
>> should use the oldest available term for*this* kind of dust storm...anybody
>> know what that word would be in Apache?...r
>
>Why Apache?
>
>
>
>"Before colonization, about 200-300 languages were spoken in North
>America by approx. 1.5 million inhabitants; these languages can be
>divided into numerous language families and language isolates...
>
>...Suarez (1983) suggests seven language families and seven isolates,
>and Greenberg (1956, 1987) assigns all languages of North, Central and
>South America, with the exception of the Na-Dené and Eskimo-Aleut
>languages, to one large Amerindian group. According to Greenberg, the
>speakers of Amerindian represent the oldest wave of immigrants,"
>
>Wôpanâak language, one of the oldest languages in the United States
>(also known as Massachusetts or Wampanoag language), with the screening
>of Anne Makepeace’s documentary "Âs Nutayuneân".
>
>Since this is an Amerindian group language, and the first American
>Indian language into which the bible was translated, it's probably going
>to have some of the oldest forms for such words.
>
>Unfortunately, I can't find a dictionary for this (dead) language).
Assuming those languages of North, Central and South America are not *really*
all of a piece (which seems a parochial assumption), I picked Apache as the
language of several dominant peoples to the south of the Phoenix area, which is
where the dust storms seem to blow in from...I don't think the weather pattern
is at all typical of Massachusetts...I suppose I could accept something in
Tohono O'odham instead....r
Athel Cornish-Bowden
> (2) if we're going to set our own weather eccentricities apart, perhaps we
> should use the oldest available term for *this* kind of dust storm...anybody
> know what that word would be in Apache?...r
No, but if she's been wakened by recent discussions we may have someone
who can give you the Choctaw.
--
athel
Stephen
Yes! Where are you purl girl?
--
Stephen
Ballina, NSW
Don Phillipson
news:j05hi...@drn.newsguy.com...
> There's a battle going on in the press here in Phoenix the last couple of
> weeks
> over the use of the word "haboob" to describe the sixty-mile-long wall of
> dust
> that blew through town recently...
>
> (1) what's the ultimate derivation of the words "dust" and "storm", and do
> either of them come from a place with a climate and geography like that of
> Arizona? . . .
>
> (2) if we're going to set our own weather eccentricities apart, perhaps we
> should use the oldest available term for *this* kind of dust
> storm...anybody
> know what that word would be in Apache?...r
Sandstorm has long been a standard English noun
(possibly ever since English speakers encountered
sandstorms in N.Africa and the Levant.) Simoom
is/was an imported local word that entered English
in the 19th century.
The sort of geography I was taught in England in
the 1950s described in detail the yellow loess
soil of northern China, that the wind blew eastward
and southward, making the Yellow River yellow etc.
This material was called dust more often than sand
(because fertile.)
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)
Jerry Friedman
> Stephen filted:
> >On 20/07/2011 1:20 PM, R H Draney wrote:
>
> >> (2) if we're going to set our own weather eccentricities apart, perhaps we
> >> should use the oldest available term for*this* kind of dust storm...anybody
> >> know what that word would be in Apache?...r
>
> >Why Apache?
> Assuming those languages of North, Central and South America are not *really*
> all of a piece (which seems a parochial assumption), I picked Apache as the
> language of several dominant peoples to the south of the Phoenix area, which is
> where the dust storms seem to blow in from...I don't think the weather pattern
> is at all typical of Massachusetts...I suppose I could accept something in
> Tohono O'odham instead....r
I'd have thought Maricopa would be the one for Phoenix.
The Apache languages spoken south of Phoenix seem to be similar to a
well-known Apache language spoken northeast of Phoenix, namely Navajo.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_language
Wall and Morgan's Navajo-English dictionary is searchable on Amazon.
The word for "approaching wind" or "approaching sandstorm" is /yiyol/,
with a crossed l. "Sandstorm" is on a page that's not previewable,
and the OCR says it's "teezh bit h66yol", where the 6s must be either
accented a's or accented o's, and the l is apparently not crossed this
time. "Teezh" means "dirt" or "dust", so that's apparently an
allusion to a song by Kansas.
There may not be a specific word for a haboob, which seems to start as
a dying thunderstorm.
You can undoubtedly find a Navajo-English dictionary at the public
library.
--
Jerry Friedman
Mike Lyle
But not for nothing named "Norman".
--
Mike.
Mike Lyle
wrote:
Spare us! We've got enough minor irritants already.
--
Mike.
James Hogg
I can imagine how that happened. Every new Viking landing in northern
France was asked:
"Is your name not Norman? That's going to cause a little confusion. Mind
if we call you Norman?"
--
James
R H Draney
I can only assume that "norman" is Viking for "what did you say?"...r
Duggy
<splitteminebrams...@lundhansen.dk> wrote:
> I can help you clean out all the Danish words. We fought the
> English in 1066, and they were some of your ancestors.
I have Irish ancestors. I'm going to stop using all English words
that come from England.
===
= DUG.
===
Duggy
> I think we should drop using the Japanese word "tsunami". How
> disrespectful to all the brave valiant soldiers who fought against the
> horror of Japanese invasion! Is there no honour?
I think it's stupid to call those things "harbour waves".
===
= DUG.
===
Duggy
> Assuming those languages of North, Central and South America are not *really*
> all of a piece (which seems a parochial assumption), I picked Apache as the
> language of several dominant peoples to the south of the Phoenix area, which is
> where the dust storms seem to blow in from...I don't think the weather pattern
> is at all typical of Massachusetts...I suppose I could accept something in
> Tohono O'odham instead....r
Do we name each event based native language of the starting point of
the storm or the place where it is being named?
===
= DUG.
===
Duggy
My only issue is since they're using it to describe a monster dust
cloud (which it appears is rarer there then here) does haboob mean
monster dust storm or just dust storm? If it's just dust storm then
I'm against the usage.
===
= DUG.
===
Duggy
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Stamford_Bridge
> The Normans were French speaking.
No, my cousins were English speaking.
===
= DUG.
===
R H Draney
>
>On Jul 20, 5:07=A0pm, Bertel Lund Hansen
Heck, we ought to ban in here in the States too...we fought the English *twice*
(and whupped 'em good both times too)....r
R H Draney
>
>On Jul 20, 6:14=A0pm, R H Draney <dadoc...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>> Assuming those languages of North, Central and South America are not *rea=
>lly*
>> all of a piece (which seems a parochial assumption), I picked Apache as t=
>he
>> language of several dominant peoples to the south of the Phoenix area, wh=
>ich is
>> where the dust storms seem to blow in from...I don't think the weather pa=
>ttern
>> is at all typical of Massachusetts...I suppose I could accept something i=
>n
>> Tohono O'odham instead....r
>
>Do we name each event based native language of the starting point of
>the storm or the place where it is being named?
I am trying to be sensible about this...since the storms of the past month come
from the area between Phoenix and Tucson, it's reasonable to assume that they've
always been a common feature of the region, and that therefore the most
applicable term should come from the language of those who have occupied that
region and were presumably the first to observe such storms....
Looking at present-day settlements (since the Hohokam, true to the translation
of their name, have "gone before"), the town of Sacaton seems to be situated in
the very core of the area in question, and it's the capital of the Gila River
community, which includes the Pima and Maricopa tribes, which means the O'odham
language is in fact the appropriate choice...(Apache would be better suited if
the storms entered Phoenix from the east rather than from the south)....r
Steve Hayes
wrote:
>Do we name each event based native language of the starting point of
>the storm or the place where it is being named?
Consider typhoons, cyclones and hurricanes.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
Peter Moylan
I find it sad that most of the Irish have given up that fight. My Irish
great-grandfather was, I gather, bilingual. I'm ashamed to admit that I,
only three generations later, can speak perhaps half a dozen words of
his language.
--
Peter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org
For an e-mail address, see my web page.
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
wrote:
>On Jul 20, 2:17 pm, Stephen <calder...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Japanese scientists don't like it either, I understand.
Presumably the name "tsunami" ("harbour wave") comes from the fact that
normal waves don't penetrate into the protected are of water of a
harbour whereas tsunami waves certainly do.
I quite like the previous name "tidal wave". It is not a wave caused by
a tide but a wave that has effects at the shore similar to those of a
tide: ebb and flow of the sea although of a greater magnitude than that
of a normal tide.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
wrote:
>On Jul 20, 1:20 pm, R H Draney <dadoc...@spamcop.net> wrote:
"Haboob" seems to be used for an intense dust/sand-storm, not an
ordinary one.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haboob
The word haboob comes from the Arabic word ???? "strong wind or
'phenomenon'."
"phenomenon"? The Thing? Or perhaps The THING?
Bertel Lund Hansen
> I quite like the previous name "tidal wave". It is not a wave caused by
> a tide but a wave that has effects at the shore similar to those of a
> tide: ebb and flow of the sea although of a greater magnitude than that
> of a normal tide.
It would be confusing. I take part in this game only for fun
since I don't believe that we can stop people from calling it
tsunami. But "(earth)quakewave" would be a better description.
What would that be in Japanese?
--
Bertel, Denmark
Garrett Wollman
Peter Moylan <inv...@peter.pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>I find it sad that most of the Irish have given up that fight. My Irish
>great-grandfather was, I gather, bilingual. I'm ashamed to admit that I,
>only three generations later, can speak perhaps half a dozen words of
>his language.
My great-grandparents were Acadian, French, Polish, and
Hiberno-German. Of those, the only language I've ever spoken is
French, and I don't feel any shame for that.
-GAWollman
--
Garrett A. Wollman | What intellectual phenomenon can be older, or more oft
wol...@bimajority.org| repeated, than the story of a large research program
Opinions not shared by| that impaled itself upon a false central assumption
my employers. | accepted by all practitioners? - S.J. Gould, 1993
R H Draney
>
> The word haboob comes from the Arabic word ???? "strong wind or
> 'phenomenon'."
>
>"phenomenon"? The Thing? Or perhaps The THING?
That one's not as compelling as it used to be, now that they have a Dairy Queen
in it....r
John Varela
<inv...@peter.pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
> My Irish
> great-grandfather was, I gather, bilingual. I'm ashamed to admit that I,
> only three generations later, can speak perhaps half a dozen words of
> his language.
If you did speak his language, who would you speak it with?
--
John Varela
Peter Moylan
there are even a few native speakers left.
Yusuf Gursey
> There's a battle going on in the press here in Phoenix the last couple of weeks
> over the use of the word "haboob" to describe the sixty-mile-long wall of dust
> that blew through town recently...the press loves the word, but some of the
> unpressed citizenry are offended by the use of an Arabic word for what they
habu:b is a strong gale or wind in Aarbic. haba:b means fine dust.
> would prefer to call a "dust storm", displacing an earlier controversy over
> "monsoon" for our summer rainy season....
>
> I have two questions stemming from the current dust-up:
>
> (1) what's the ultimate derivation of the words "dust" and "storm", and do
> either of them come from a place with a climate and geography like that of
> Arizona? (or at least more like Arizona's climate than that of north Africa or
> the Middle East?)
>
> (2) if we're going to set our own weather eccentricities apart, perhaps we
> should use the oldest available term for *this* kind of dust storm...anybody
> know what that word would be in Apache?...r
>
Jerry Friedman
> On Jul 19, 11:20 pm, R H Draney <dadoc...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>
> > There's a battle going on in the press here in Phoenix the last couple of weeks
> > over the use of the word "haboob" to describe the sixty-mile-long wall of dust
> > that blew through town recently...the press loves the word, but some of the
> > unpressed citizenry are offended by the use of an Arabic word for what they
>
> habu:b is a strong gale or wind in Aarbic. haba:b means fine dust.
So it's not specifically that particular type of dust storm, which
according to Wikipedia is a "downburst" of winds flowing outward from
a collapsing thunderstorm? Seems to me that means there's a lot less
justification for borrowing the Arabic word.
--
Jerry Friedman
Steve Hayes
<ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>On Wed, 20 Jul 2011 22:21:15 -0700 (PDT), Duggy <Paul....@jcu.edu.au>
>wrote:
>
>>On Jul 20, 2:17 pm, Stephen <calder...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> I think we should drop using the Japanese word "tsunami". How
>>> disrespectful to all the brave valiant soldiers who fought against the
>>> horror of Japanese invasion! Is there no honour?
>>
>>I think it's stupid to call those things "harbour waves".
>>
>Japanese scientists don't like it either, I understand.
>
>Presumably the name "tsunami" ("harbour wave") comes from the fact that
>normal waves don't penetrate into the protected are of water of a
>harbour whereas tsunami waves certainly do.
Some relatives of mine died in a harbour wave. They had gone down to the
harbour to watch the fishing boats offload, and there was an earthquake and
they were drowned in the resulting harbour wave.
>I quite like the previous name "tidal wave". It is not a wave caused by
>a tide but a wave that has effects at the shore similar to those of a
>tide: ebb and flow of the sea although of a greater magnitude than that
>of a normal tide.
It seems to be the most accurate description, but some people seem not to like
it because they aren't caused by the moon.
Steve Hayes
To be quite safe, just call it an aspect. Or franchise might do.
Lanarcam
> John Varela wrote:
>> On Thu, 21 Jul 2011 10:11:03 UTC, Peter Moylan
>> <inv...@peter.pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> My Irish
>>> great-grandfather was, I gather, bilingual. I'm ashamed to admit that I,
>>> only three generations later, can speak perhaps half a dozen words of
>>> his language.
>>
>> If you did speak his language, who would you speak it with?
>>
> Nobody in Australia, probably; but it's still taught in Ireland, and
> there are even a few native speakers left.
>
villages.
the Omrud
Certainly is - around Galway Bay the locals can be heard talking to each
other in Irish Gaelic. At some points temporary road signs don't have
images or English so it's difficult to know what they are warning of.
--
David
SW France
Duggy
Wait... they talk English in the US? When did that start?
===
= DUG.
===
Duggy
> Duggy filted:
> >Do we name each event based native language of the starting point of
> >the storm or the place where it is being named?
> I am trying to be sensible about this...
I avoid that at all costs. Doesn't mean I don't stand behind the
question.
> since the storms of the past month come
> from the area between Phoenix and Tucson, it's reasonable to assume that they've
> always been a common feature of the region,
I'd argue that the fact that they've been getting international
attention recently makes it reasonable to assume that they are fairly
uncommon.
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
wrote:
>On Jul 21, 5:19 pm, R H Draney <dadoc...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>> Duggy filted:
>> >Do we name each event based native language of the starting point of
>> >the storm or the place where it is being named?
>
>> I am trying to be sensible about this...
>
>I avoid that at all costs. Doesn't mean I don't stand behind the
>question.
>
>> since the storms of the past month come
>> from the area between Phoenix and Tucson, it's reasonable to assume that they've
>> always been a common feature of the region,
>
>I'd argue that the fact that they've been getting international
>attention recently makes it reasonable to assume that they are fairly
>uncommon.
>
That assumption might appear reasonable but that does not make it
correct.
These days international attention, that is media attention, can be
driven by internet chatter and particularly by videos on YouTube.
Something that is relatively common in one part of the world can attract
interest in other parts where it is completely unknown. Then after a day
or two attention moves on to something else.
>> and that therefore the most
>> applicable term should come from the language of those who have occupied that
>> region and were presumably the first to observe such storms....
>
>
>
>> Looking at present-day settlements (since the Hohokam, true to the translation
>> of their name, have "gone before"), the town of Sacaton seems to be situated in
>> the very core of the area in question, and it's the capital of the Gila River
>> community, which includes the Pima and Maricopa tribes, which means the O'odham
>> language is in fact the appropriate choice...(Apache would be better suited if
>> the storms entered Phoenix from the east rather than from the south)....r
>>
>> --
>> Me? Sarcastic?
>> Yeah, right.
--
Duggy
<splitteminebrams...@lundhansen.dk> wrote:
> Peter Duncanson (BrE) skrev:
>
> > I quite like the previous name "tidal wave". It is not a wave caused by
> > a tide but a wave that has effects at the shore similar to those of a
> > tide: ebb and flow of the sea although of a greater magnitude than that
> > of a normal tide.
> It would be confusing. I take part in this game only for fun
> since I don't believe that we can stop people from calling it
> tsunami.
I don't know... the commonly used, accepted and easy to understand
English term "tidal wave" got replaced by "tsunami".
In Australia most people now say Uluru instead of Ayer's Rock despite
many of those people making "I'm not racist but..." rants about the
name change.
It can happen. "Is it worth it?" is a better question.
> But "(earth)quakewave" would be a better description.
> What would that be in Japanese?
I don't know... aren't some caused by volcanoes and possible asteroid
strikes?
===
= DUG.
===
Duggy
wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Jul 2011 22:21:15 -0700 (PDT), Duggy <Paul.Dug...@jcu.edu.au>
> wrote:
> >I think it's stupid to call those things "harbour waves".
> Japanese scientists don't like it either, I understand.
And names are an important part of Japanese science. If the Japanese
Government says that "Safe Levels of Radiation" are now 5 times higher
science must agree.
===
= DUG.
===
Duggy
> On Wed, 20 Jul 2011 22:25:16 -0700 (PDT), Duggy <Paul.Dug...@jcu.edu.au>
> wrote:
>
> >Do we name each event based native language of the starting point of
> >the storm or the place where it is being named?
>
> Consider typhoons, cyclones and hurricanes.
Exactly. Consider them and avoid local namings.
===
= DUG.
===
Duggy
> Duggy filted:
> since the storms of the past month come
> from the area between Phoenix and Tucson, it's reasonable to assume that they've
> always been a common feature of the region, and that therefore the most
> applicable term should come from the language of those who have occupied that
> region and were presumably the first to observe such storms....
And if they happen in other regions and were first observed by others?
What if they happen again in Australia?
Like in 1902:
http://www.bom.gov.au/lam/climate/levelthree/c20thc/storm5.htm
Or 1943/44:
http://www.bom.gov.au/lam/climate/levelthree/c20thc/storm6.htm
Such as 1983:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_Melbourne_dust_storm
http://www.bom.gov.au/lam/climate/levelthree/c20thc/storm7.htm
http://www.bom.gov.au/info/ftweather/images/duststorm.jpg
Or 2009
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Australian_dust_storm
Should we use the Apache word?
===
= DUG.
===
Stephen
Now the big question. What's "windstorm" or "dust storm" in O'odham?
--
Stephen
Ballina, NSW
Adam Funk
> Mike Lyle wrote:
>> On Wed, 20 Jul 2011 00:14:15 -0700 (PDT), Harrison Hill
>>> The Normans were French speaking.
>>
>> But not for nothing named "Norman".
>
> I can imagine how that happened. Every new Viking landing in northern
> France was asked:
>
> "Is your name not Norman? That's going to cause a little confusion. Mind
> if we call you Norman?"
In the philosophy department, I guess.
--
Mathematiker sind wie Franzosen: Was man ihnen auch sagt, übersetzen
sie in ihre eigene Sprache, so daß unverzüglich etwas völlig anderes
daraus wird. [Goethe]
Adam Funk
> Spare us! We've got enough minor irritants already.
Come on, how many kids under 18 are on the USENET these days?
--
The internet is quite simply a glorious place. Where else can you find
bootlegged music and films, questionable women, deep seated xenophobia
and amusing cats all together in the same place? [Tom Belshaw]
R H Draney
Not even sure whom to ask...closest I can find online is that "storm" in Papago
(which term is now considered politically incorrect) is "jegos"..."wind" is
"hewel", and I can't find anything for "dust" or "sand"....r
Bertel Lund Hansen
> And names are an important part of Japanese science. If the Japanese
> Government says that "Safe Levels of Radiation" are now 5 times higher
> science must agree.
Which science agreed? As far as I know it was not a question of
agreement, but of a govenment specification.
I come to think of depleted uranium ammunition and safety, but
that is of course unfair.
--
Bertel, Denmark
Drew Lawson
Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com> writes:
>On 2011-07-20, Mike Lyle wrote:
>
>> Spare us! We've got enough minor irritants already.
>
>Come on, how many kids under 18 are on the USENET these days?
Is that chronological age, or emmotional?
Drew "On the Internet, everyone knows you're a crybaby" Lawson
--
Drew Lawson | It's not enough to be alive
| when your future's been deferred
Adam Funk
> In article <20lof8x...@news.ducksburg.com>
> Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com> writes:
>>On 2011-07-20, Mike Lyle wrote:
>>
>>> Spare us! We've got enough minor irritants already.
>>
>>Come on, how many kids under 18 are on the USENET these days?
>
> Is that chronological age, or emmotional?
The latter, of course!
--
...the reason why so many professional artists drink a lot is not
necessarily very much to do with the artistic temperament, etc. It is
simply that they can afford to, because they can normally take a large
part of a day off to deal with the ravages. [Amis _On Drink_]
Mike Lyle
I have the impression that in everyday speech the dust-storm words
vary from place to place, as you'd expect in a language with such
distinct dialects. There may of course be some underlying technical
"Eskimoes and snow" differences, but, if so, I doubt if the man on the
suburban omnibus is clear about them.
--
Mike.
Nasti J
> I have the impression that in everyday speech the dust-storm words
> vary from place to place, as you'd expect in a language with such
> distinct dialects. There may of course be some underlying technical
> "Eskimoes and snow" differences, but, if so, I doubt if the man on the
> suburban omnibus is clear about them.
"In Pima, a language spoken by people in [the Salt River Pima-Maricopa
Indian Community], plus the Gila River Tohono O'odham reservations,
dust storms are called "jegos."
It's pronounced more like "jeh-gis" than anything rhyming with Legos."
http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2011/07/haboobs_in_arizona_known_for_c.php
***The Maricopa don't have a precise name for the dust storms...
"Dust" is "mpoth," in Maricopa, (pronounced "empoatch"). But if a
Maricopa stepped out of his home 500 years ago and saw one of those
imposing dust storms on the horizon, he or she might say "mpothsh-
vidiik," which means "the dust is coming," ...Or, if it's particularly
nasty like the July 5 storm, the Maricopa might say "mpothsh mshidevk
vidiik" -- "the scary dust is coming."***
Duggy
<splitteminebrams...@lundhansen.dk> wrote:
> Duggy skrev:
>
> > And names are an important part of Japanese science. If the Japanese
> > Government says that "Safe Levels of Radiation" are now 5 times higher
> > science must agree.
> Which science agreed? As far as I know it was not a question of
> agreement, but of a govenment specification.
Science financed by the government.
> I come to think of depleted uranium ammunition and safety, but
> that is of course unfair.
Huh?
===
= DUG.
===
Duggy
wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Jul 2011 02:28:46 -0700 (PDT), Duggy <Paul.Dug...@jcu.edu.au>
> >> from the area between Phoenix and Tucson, it's reasonable to assume that they've
> >> always been a common feature of the region,
> >I'd argue that the fact that they've been getting international
> >attention recently makes it reasonable to assume that they are fairly
> >uncommon.
> That assumption might appear reasonable but that does not make it
> correct.
That was my point. I was mocking "since the storms of the past month
come from the area between Phoenix and Tucson, it's reasonable to
assume that they've always been a common feature of the region,"
> These days international attention, that is media attention, can be
> driven by internet chatter and particularly by videos on YouTube.
> Something that is relatively common in one part of the world can attract
> interest in other parts where it is completely unknown. Then after a day
> or two attention moves on to something else.
True. But a couple of recent events may also be a related to current
freak conditions rather than a regular event.
I honestly don't know either way, I was mocking the original
"reasonable" assumption.
===
= DUG.
===
Peter Moylan
> On 2011-07-20, James Hogg wrote:
>
>> Mike Lyle wrote:
>>> On Wed, 20 Jul 2011 00:14:15 -0700 (PDT), Harrison Hill
>
>>>> The Normans were French speaking.
>>> But not for nothing named "Norman".
>> I can imagine how that happened. Every new Viking landing in northern
>> France was asked:
>>
>> "Is your name not Norman? That's going to cause a little confusion. Mind
>> if we call you Norman?"
>
> In the philosophy department, I guess.
Yes, people like Rognvald the Bruce continued sailing south.
Peter Moylan
How time flies. I was going to comment on the one we had last year, but
that must have been the 2009 one. Visibility was similar to that in a
heavy fog. Everyone was warned to stay indoors, but that didn't help a
lot; dust entered my house through every available crack, and it took a
couple of weeks to clean up. The disruption to normal life was severe; I
didn't go to work because I didn't dare breathe the stuff, and anyway
driving would have been dangerous when you couldn't see where you were
going.
At the time we were told that winds had picked up the dust in central
Australia, carried it some enormous distance, and then dumped it on the
coastal plains.
I didn't mention this earlier in the thread because it was just called a
dust storm, which presumably was different from the haboob being
discussed. Now I'm not sure.
Steve Hayes
wrote:
>> Consider typhoons, cyclones and hurricanes.
>
>Exactly. Consider them and avoid local namings.
Except that headline writers have difficulty with "Tropical revolving storm".
R H Draney
>
>On Fri, 22 Jul 2011 05:26:58 -0700 (PDT), Duggy <Paul....@jcu.edu.au>
>wrote:
>
>>> Consider typhoons, cyclones and hurricanes.
>>
>>Exactly. Consider them and avoid local namings.
>
>Except that headline writers have difficulty with "Tropical revolving storm".
So that we're caught between Charybdis and a hard place....r
Duggy
> On Fri, 22 Jul 2011 05:26:58 -0700 (PDT), Duggy <Paul.Dug...@jcu.edu.au>
> wrote:
>
> >> Consider typhoons, cyclones and hurricanes.
>
> >Exactly. Consider them and avoid local namings.
>
> Except that headline writers have difficulty with "Tropical revolving storm".
Really? TRS is only one letter longer than the TC they use here.
===
= DUG.
===
Bertel Lund Hansen
>> Which science agreed? As far as I know it was not a question of
>> agreement, but of a govenment specification.
> Science financed by the government.
Show me a scientist that declared the set limits as safe based on
scientific results.
--
Bertel, Denmark
Steve Hayes
wrote:
>On Jul 23, 4:26 pm, Steve Hayes <hayes...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
And what's that when it's whirling? A Typhoon/Cyclone?
Duggy
They didn't have to. The Japanese Government was just able to change
the safe limits.
But they had a good reason: Otherwise it wouldn't be safe to reopen
the schools.
===
= DUG.
===
Duggy
> On Sat, 23 Jul 2011 00:36:59 -0700 (PDT), Duggy <Paul.Dug...@jcu.edu.au>
> wrote:
>
> >On Jul 23, 4:26 pm, Steve Hayes <hayes...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
> >> On Fri, 22 Jul 2011 05:26:58 -0700 (PDT), Duggy <Paul.Dug...@jcu.edu.au>
> >> wrote:
>
> >> >> Consider typhoons, cyclones and hurricanes.
>
> >> >Exactly. Consider them and avoid local namings.
>
> >> Except that headline writers have difficulty with "Tropical revolving storm".
>
> >Really? TRS is only one letter longer than the TC they use here.
>
> And what's that when it's whirling? A Typhoon/Cyclone?
Tropic Cyclone. Earlier in the year I had an encounter with TC Yassi.
===
= DUG.
===
CDB
>>
> There's a battle going on in the press here in Phoenix the last
> couple of weeks over the use of the word "haboob" to describe the
> sixty-mile-long wall of dust that blew through town recently...the
> press loves the word, but some of the unpressed citizenry are
> call a "dust storm", displacing an earlier controversy over
> "monsoon" for our summer rainy season....
>
> I have two questions stemming from the current dust-up:
>
> (1) what's the ultimate derivation of the words "dust" and "storm",
> and do either of them come from a place with a climate and
> geography like that of Arizona? (or at least more like Arizona's
> climate than that of north Africa or the Middle East?)
>
> (2) if we're going to set our own weather eccentricities apart,
> perhaps we should use the oldest available term for *this* kind of
> dust storm...anybody know what that word would be in Apache?...r
>>
The CBC ran a montage last night of a thousand American news-readers
revelling in the word.
Bertel Lund Hansen
> They didn't have to. The Japanese Government was just able to change
> the safe limits.
Yes, and that has nothing to do with science. It's politics.
> But they had a good reason: Otherwise it wouldn't be safe to reopen
> the schools.
Political decisions do not always have the people's best interest
as goal, and sometimes they have weighed two conflicting
interests and made a compromise. That is by no means special for
Japan.
--
Bertel, Denmark
Steve Hayes
wrote:
>On Jul 23, 7:53 pm, Steve Hayes <hayes...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
So that's YOUR local name for it.
Duggy
You don't get sarcasm, do you?
===
= DUG.
===
Duggy
> On Sat, 23 Jul 2011 04:28:09 -0700 (PDT), Duggy <Paul.Dug...@jcu.edu.au>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Jul 23, 7:53 pm, Steve Hayes <hayes...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
> >> On Sat, 23 Jul 2011 00:36:59 -0700 (PDT), Duggy <Paul.Dug...@jcu.edu.au>
> >> wrote:
>
> >> >On Jul 23, 4:26 pm, Steve Hayes <hayes...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
> >> >> On Fri, 22 Jul 2011 05:26:58 -0700 (PDT), Duggy <Paul.Dug...@jcu.edu.au>
> >> >> wrote:
>
> >> >> >> Consider typhoons, cyclones and hurricanes.
>
> >> >> >Exactly. Consider them and avoid local namings.
>
> >> >> Except that headline writers have difficulty with "Tropical revolving storm".
>
> >> >Really? TRS is only one letter longer than the TC they use here.
>
> >> And what's that when it's whirling? A Typhoon/Cyclone?
>
> >Tropic Cyclone. Earlier in the year I had an encounter with TC Yassi.
>
> So that's YOUR local name for it.
Yes. Hense "they use here".
Please, learn to read in the future.
===
= DUG.
===
Peter Moylan
Is that what they call de-Scylling?
LFS
> R H Draney wrote:
>> Steve Hayes filted:
>>> On Fri, 22 Jul 2011 05:26:58 -0700 (PDT), Duggy<Paul....@jcu.edu.au>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Consider typhoons, cyclones and hurricanes.
>>>> Exactly. Consider them and avoid local namings.
>>> Except that headline writers have difficulty with "Tropical revolving storm".
>>
>> So that we're caught between Charybdis and a hard place....r
>
> Is that what they call de-Scylling?
>
<applause>
--
Laura
(emulate St. George for email)
Steve Hayes
wrote:
>On Jul 24, 5:10 am, Steve Hayes <hayes...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
Please remember what you wrote in future.
See above, where you said:
>> >> >> >Exactly. Consider them and avoid local namings.
Are you a sock puppet for abzorba?
Nasti J
> Yes. Hense "they use here".
>
> Please, learn to read in the future.
It's "hence"; please, learn to spell in the future
Yusuf Gursey
> On Jul 21, 6:52 pm, Yusuf Gursey <ygur...@gmail.com> wrote:> On Jul 19, 11:20 pm, R H Draney <dadoc...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>
> > > There's a battle going on in the press here in Phoenix the last couple of weeks
> > > over the use of the word "haboob" to describe the sixty-mile-long wall of dust
> > > that blew through town recently...the press loves the word, but some of the
> > > unpressed citizenry are offended by the use of an Arabic word for what they
>
>
> ...
>
> So it's not specifically that particular type of dust storm, which
> according to Wikipedia is a "downburst" of winds flowing outward from
that's Standard Arabic. it could be more specific in soem colloquials.
> a collapsing thunderstorm? Seems to me that means there's a lot less
> justification for borrowing the Arabic word.
>
> --
> Jerry Friedman