OT: God Save The President?
TOF
The melody did seem familiar.
TOF
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
>Was Aretha singing God Save the President at the inauguration?
>
"My Country 'Tis of Thee".
Her actual performance:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AE_Dds8DfE
>The melody did seem familiar.
>
It has other uses -- "God Save the Queen" for one.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
<ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 12:59:19 -0800 (PST), TOF <Fran...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Was Aretha singing God Save the President at the inauguration?
>>
>
>"My Country 'Tis of Thee".
>
>Her actual performance:
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AE_Dds8DfE
>
>>The melody did seem familiar.
>>
>It has other uses -- "God Save the Queen" for one.
See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_save_the_queen
Particularly:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_save_the_queen#Use_elsewhere
The first German national anthem used the melody of "God Save the King"
with the words changed to Heil dir im Siegerkranz, and sung to the same
tune as the UK version. The tune was either used or officially adopted as
the national anthem for several other countries, including those of Russia
(until 1833) and Switzerland (Rufst Du, mein Vaterland or O monts
indépendants, until 1961). Molitva russkikh, considered to be the first
Russian anthem, was also sung to the same music.
It is also the melody to the United States patriotic hymn "America" (also
known by its first line, "My Country, 'Tis of Thee"), and was played
during the Presidential Inauguration parade of President George W. Bush on
20 January, 2001 and sung by Aretha Franklin prior to the inauguration of
Barack H. Obama on 20 January, 2009. In Iceland it is sung to the poem of
Eldgamla Ísafold. The tune is also used as Norway's royal anthem entitled
Kongesangen, and was used for the Swedish royal anthem between 1805 and
1893, entitled Bevare gud vår kung.
The tune is still used as the national anthem of Liechtenstein, Oben am
jungen Rhein. When England played Liechtenstein in a Euro 2004 qualifier,
the same tune was therefore played twice, causing some minor confusion.
The melody of "God Save the King" has been, and continues to be, used as a
hymn tune by Christian churches in various countries. The United
Methodists of the southern United States, Mexico, and Latin America, among
other denominations (usually Protestant), play the same melody as a hymn.
The Christian hymn "Glory to God on High" is frequently sung to the same
tune, as well as an alternative tune that fits both lyrics.
TOF
wrote:
> On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 12:59:19 -0800 (PST), TOF <Fran.B...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Was Aretha singing God Save the President at the inauguration?
>
> "My Country 'Tis of Thee".
>
> Her actual performance:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AE_Dds8DfE
>
> >The melody did seem familiar.
>
> It has other uses -- "God Save the Queen" for one.
>
Do you know the provenance of the melody?
TOF
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
No.
http://www.royal.gov.uk/output/page5010.asp#
The British National Anthem dates back to the eighteenth century.
'God Save The King' was a patriotic song first publicly performed in
London in 1745, which came to be known as the National Anthem at the
beginning of the nineteenth century.
The words and tune are anonymous, and may date back to the seventeenth
century.
In September 1745 the 'Young Pretender' to the British Throne, Prince
Charles Edward Stuart, defeated the army of King George II at Prestonpans,
near Edinburgh.
In a fit of patriotic fervour after news of Prestonpans had reached
London, the leader of the band at the Theatre Royal, Drury Lane, arranged
'God Save The King' for performance after a play. It was a tremendous
success and was repeated nightly.
This practice soon spread to other theatres, and the custom of greeting
monarchs with the song as he or she entered a place of public
entertainment was thus established.
There is no authorised version of the National Anthem as the words are a
matter of tradition. Additional verses have been added down the years, but
these are rarely used.
The words used today are those sung in 1745, substituting 'Queen' for
'King' where appropriate. On official occasions, only the first verse is
usually sung.
The words of the National Anthem are as follows:
....
Django Cat
Jaze, but it's a grim tune, whichever set of lyrics you put to it. Fortunately Ms Franklin's singing could send shivers down my spine with Old Macdonald's Farm, so this is as good as it's going to get.
I liked the old guy at the end, too.
DC
--
LFS
> TOF wrote:
>
>> Was Aretha singing God Save the President at the inauguration?
>>
>> The melody did seem familiar.
>>
>> TOF
>
> Jaze, but it's a grim tune, whichever set of lyrics you put to it.
> Fortunately Ms Franklin's singing could send shivers down my spine
> with Old Macdonald's Farm, so this is as good as it's going to get.
Her hat was pretty splendid, too.
>
> I liked the old guy at the end, too.
>
But when did Itzhak Perlman get so old?
--
Laura
(emulate St. George for email)
TOF
> TOF wrote:
> > Was Aretha singing God Save the President at the inauguration?
>
> > The melody did seem familiar.
>
> > TOF
>
> Jaze, but it's a grim tune, whichever set of lyrics you put to it. Fortunately Ms
> Franklin's singing could send shivers down my spine with Old Macdonald's
> Farm, so this is as good as it's going to get.
>
As someone forced to listen to this tune and its usual words for
almost all of my school career, it is a dirge, but as you say, Aretha
could make anything sound good. It has a bit of a gospel-jazz-blues
sound and wasn't half bad.
> I liked the old guy at the end, too.
I missed that as I only heard the radio version.
TOF
TOF
wrote:
> On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 13:24:03 -0800 (PST), TOF <Fran.B...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Jan 21, 8:12 am, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)" <m...@peterduncanson.net>
> >wrote:
> >> On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 12:59:19 -0800 (PST), TOF <Fran.B...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >Was Aretha singing God Save the President at the inauguration?
>
> >> "My Country 'Tis of Thee".
>
> >> Her actual performance:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AE_Dds8DfE
>
> >> >The melody did seem familiar.
>
> >> It has other uses -- "God Save the Queen" for one.
>
> >Do you know the provenance of the melody?
>
>
> The British National Anthem dates back to the eighteenth century.
>
<snip>
Thanks
TOF
Django Cat
> > Jaze, but it's a grim tune, whichever set of lyrics you put to it.
> > Fortunately Ms Franklin's singing could send shivers down my spine
> > with Old Macdonald's Farm, so this is as good as it's going to get.
>
> Her hat was pretty splendid, too.
>
> >
> > I liked the old guy at the end, too.
> >
>
> But when did Itzhak Perlman get so old?
And who was the elderly black gentleman that the camera cut to four times during the inauguration? I'm guessing he was a civil rights veteran?
DC
--
Prai Jei
Several composers, from Beethoven to Charles Ives, have written variations
on this little melody.
Any lyric that is set to this melody can also be sung to the tune that is
more familiar for the hymn "Thou whose almighty word". In the hymnals this
tune is known as Moscow.
--
ξ:) Proud to be curly
Interchange the alphabetic letter groups to reply
Django Cat
>
> There is no authorised version of the National Anthem as the words are a
> matter of tradition. Additional verses have been added down the years, but
> these are rarely used.
Bring back 'Rebellious Scots to crush' I say...
DC
--
Django Cat
> > Jaze, but it's a grim tune, whichever set of lyrics you put to it. Fortunately Ms
> > Franklin's singing could send shivers down my spine with Old Macdonald's
> > Farm, so this is as good as it's going to get.
> >
>
> As someone forced to listen to this tune and its usual words for
> almost all of my school career, it is a dirge, but as you say, Aretha
> could make anything sound good. It has a bit of a gospel-jazz-blues
> sound and wasn't half bad.
>
> > I liked the old guy at the end, too.
>
> I missed that as I only heard the radio version.
Was that live? What time of day was *that* in Aus? We watched at 5pm in the Uke.
DC
--
Mike Lyle
> On Jan 21, 8:41 am, "Django Cat" <notar...@address.com> wrote:
>> TOF wrote:
>>> Was Aretha singing God Save the President at the inauguration?
>>
>>> The melody did seem familiar.
>>
>>> TOF
>>
>> Jaze, but it's a grim tune, whichever set of lyrics you put to it.
>> Fortunately Ms Franklin's singing could send shivers down my spine
>> with Old Macdonald's
>> Farm, so this is as good as it's going to get.
>>
>
> As someone forced to listen to this tune and its usual words for
> almost all of my school career, it is a dirge, but as you say, Aretha
> could make anything sound good. It has a bit of a gospel-jazz-blues
> sound and wasn't half bad.
This is fascinating: as I hinted in another thread, I thought she stank.
This is clearly /de gustibus/ territory.
--
Mike.
James Silverton
I'd just as soon not have listened to Aretha Franklin's take on "My
Country Tis of Thee" but it is the same tune as "God Save the Queen" and
both Beethoven and Haydn thought that was a pretty good melody. It takes
a fair amount of chutzpah to place yourself above those two.
--
James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland
Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
She was certainly not at her one-time best.
There are times when the selection of a symbolically appropriate person takes
precedence over actual performance.
Of course, if the organisers of the Chinese Olympics opening ceremony had been
consulted she would have been miming to a perfect performance by someone else.
jerry_f...@yahoo.com
> Was Aretha singing God Save the President at the inauguration?
>
> The melody did seem familiar.
I wish people would call the American version "America" rather than
"My Country, 'Tis of Thee", as Sen. Feinstein did.
Pretty much every American knows the first verse of this song. We
learn it before learning our national anthem, as it's much easier. If
you asked a sample of Americans to sing something /right now/, a fair
proportion would probably come up with "America".
I doubt I'm the only person here who was surprised as a child to learn
that the British, our enemies in the Revolutionary War (which is a
mainstay of primary-school history), used "our" tune for their
national anthem.
Are you interested in a little American iconography? The last two
line of the first verse are "From every mountainside,/ Let freedom
ring", which Aretha Franklin repeated many times at the end of her
performance. Martin Luther King's "I have a dream" speech is one of
the two most famous speeches in our history; he gave it in 1963 at the
Lincoln Memorial, on the Mall in Washington, which the Capitol is at
the other end of. For his peroration, he quoted "America" and named
mountains around the country, including the former slave states where
racism was still overt: "Let freedom ring from Stone Mountain of
Georgia..."
http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/mlkihaveadream.htm (It's
worth listening to as well as reading.)
The selection of the song undoubtedly referred to that. So did Dianne
Feinstein (if memory serves) in her speech, when she mentioned the
other end of the Mall and the forty years since then. Even Obama's
"this great Mall" may have been a subtle reminder of King's speech.
(Could King really have said "curvaceous" in that speech? Could I
have heard extracts from it so many times and not noticed?)
--
Jerry Friedman
tony cooper
<mike_l...@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote:
My brother the ex-pat called me a few minutes ago from Denmark to tell
me how much he disapproved of Aretha's rendition. "Too gospel".
I spent the day with my grandchildren (5- and 4-years old)letting them
take photographs at a horse training stable.
http://tonycooper.smugmug.com/gallery/7147015_rxzuj#458551472_NRJEo
All photos taken by them without my suggestions or help.
I can always watch the Inauguration on the endless replays that will
be on TV, but a day with the grandchildren...priceless.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Raymond O'Hara
"Peter Duncanson (BrE)" <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote in message
news:qdfcn41j9dqahn1lk...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 12:59:19 -0800 (PST), TOF <Fran...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Was Aretha singing God Save the President at the inauguration?
>>
>
> "My Country 'Tis of Thee".
>
> Her actual performance:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AE_Dds8DfE
>
>>The melody did seem familiar.
>>
> It has other uses -- "God Save the Queen" for one.
>
Yeah, you Brits are always stealing our songs. ;)
Raymond O'Hara
"Django Cat" <nota...@address.com> wrote in message
news:frsdl.19$6p...@newsfe30.ams2...
Peter Duncanson (BrE) wrote:
DC
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rule Brittania should be the Brit National Anthem.
That is a great song.
James Silverton
> "Peter Duncanson (BrE)" <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote in
> message news:qdfcn41j9dqahn1lk...@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 12:59:19 -0800 (PST), TOF <Fran...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Was Aretha singing God Save the President at the
>>> inauguration?
>>>
>> "My Country 'Tis of Thee".
>>
>> Her actual performance:
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AE_Dds8DfE
>>
>>> The melody did seem familiar.
>>>
>> It has other uses -- "God Save the Queen" for one.
>>
"Columbia the Gem of the Ocean" and "Brittannia the Pride of the Ocean"
and things like that.
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
Obama swore the oath on a copy of the KJV Bible. This may mean he now owes
allegiance to the successor of KJ.
TOF
Shortly after 6AM 21 January, AEDST. (Sydney, which is currently GMT -
11)
Not sure if it was live but as it was a grab in a news story about the
event, one suspects it wasn't.
TOF
TOF
<jerry_fried...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jan 20, 2:59 pm, TOF <Fran.B...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Was Aretha singing God Save the President at the inauguration?
>
> > The melody did seem familiar.
>
> I wish people would call the American version "America" rather than
> "My Country, 'Tis of Thee", as Sen. Feinstein did.
>
> Pretty much every American knows the first verse of this song. We
> learn it before learning our national anthem, as it's much easier. If
> you asked a sample of Americans to sing something /right now/, a fair
> proportion would probably come up with "America".
>
> I doubt I'm the only person here who was surprised as a child to learn
> that the British, our enemies in the Revolutionary War (which is a
> mainstay of primary-school history), used "our" tune for their
> national anthem.
>
Thanks Jerry
TOF
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
wrote:
>I spent the day with my grandchildren (5- and 4-years old)letting them
>take photographs at a horse training stable.
>http://tonycooper.smugmug.com/gallery/7147015_rxzuj#458551472_NRJEo
>All photos taken by them without my suggestions or help.
>
Those are good pictures. The kids were thinking carefully about what they were
doing. I'm impressed.
>I can always watch the Inauguration on the endless replays that will
>be on TV, but a day with the grandchildren...priceless.
Indeed.
Raymond O'Hara
"James Silverton" <not.jim....@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:gl5r8r$m2m$1...@news.motzarella.org...
> Raymond wrote on Tue, 20 Jan 2009 19:33:06 -0500:
>
>
>> "Peter Duncanson (BrE)" <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote in
>> message news:qdfcn41j9dqahn1lk...@4ax.com...
>>> On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 12:59:19 -0800 (PST), TOF <Fran...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Was Aretha singing God Save the President at the
>>>> inauguration?
>>>>
>>> "My Country 'Tis of Thee".
>>>
>>> Her actual performance:
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AE_Dds8DfE
>>>
>>>> The melody did seem familiar.
>>>>
>>> It has other uses -- "God Save the Queen" for one.
>>>
>
> "Columbia the Gem of the Ocean" and "Brittannia the Pride of the Ocean"
> and things like that.
>
> --
Columbia the Gem of the Ocean has a different tune from MCTOT.
TOF
wrote:
> On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 19:33:06 -0500, "Raymond O'Hara"
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >"Peter Duncanson (BrE)" <m...@peterduncanson.net> wrote in message
> >news:qdfcn41j9dqahn1lk...@4ax.com...
> >> On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 12:59:19 -0800 (PST), TOF <Fran.B...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>Was Aretha singing God Save the President at the inauguration?
>
> >> "My Country 'Tis of Thee".
>
> >> Her actual performance:
> >>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AE_Dds8DfE
>
> >>>The melody did seem familiar.
>
> >> It has other uses -- "God Save the Queen" for one.
>
> >Yeah, you Brits are always stealing our songs. ;)
>
> Obama swore the oath on a copy of the KJV Bible. This may mean he now owes
> allegiance to the successor of KJ.
>
Also because he was "born in Kenya".
(sorry, couldn't resist)
TOF
Mark Brader
> I wish people would call the American version "America" rather than
> "My Country, 'Tis of Thee", as Sen. Feinstein did.
I'm glad *someone* in this thread know the title of the thing.
> I doubt I'm the only person here who was surprised as a child to learn
> that the British, our enemies in the Revolutionary War (which is a
> mainstay of primary-school history), used "our" tune for their
> national anthem.
It's equally surprising from the other side, of course.
The story is that the author of the American words used a piece of
sheet music he'd found with no title on the page. In other words,
he knew he was borrowing an existing melody, but he didn't know
*what* melody.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto "Asps. Very dangerous. You go first."
m...@vex.net -- Raiders of the Lost Ark
My text in this article is in the public domain.
R H Draney
>
>
>"Django Cat" <nota...@address.com> wrote in message
>news:frsdl.19$6p...@newsfe30.ams2...
>Peter Duncanson (BrE) wrote:
>
>>
>> There is no authorised version of the National Anthem as the words are
>> a
>> matter of tradition. Additional verses have been added down the years,
>> but
>> these are rarely used.
>
>
>Bring back 'Rebellious Scots to crush' I say...
Some national anthems are more stirring than others...on strictly musical
grounds, I like Canada's best, followed by the old Soviet anthem....
"Scotland the Brave" is pretty awesome too, but I may have been swayed by the
usual instrumentation....r
--
"You got Schadenfreude on my Weltanschauung!"
"You got Weltanschauung in my Schadenfreude!"
R H Draney
>
>Jerry Friedman:
>> I wish people would call the American version "America" rather than
>> "My Country, 'Tis of Thee", as Sen. Feinstein did.
Too much potential confusion with "America the Beautiful", which has often been
suggested as a better choice than the existing national anthem....
>I'm glad *someone* in this thread know the title of the thing.
>
>> I doubt I'm the only person here who was surprised as a child to learn
>> that the British, our enemies in the Revolutionary War (which is a
>> mainstay of primary-school history), used "our" tune for their
>> national anthem.
>
>It's equally surprising from the other side, of course.
>
>The story is that the author of the American words used a piece of
>sheet music he'd found with no title on the page. In other words,
>he knew he was borrowing an existing melody, but he didn't know
>*what* melody.
Isn't that how every country in continental Europe ended up with its own version
of "Lili Marlene"?...r
Steve Hayes
>Was Aretha singing God Save the President at the inauguration?
>
>The melody did seem familiar.
I couldn't discern the words, but imagined "confound their politics, frustrate
their knavish tricks" being in there somewhere.
.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
Roland Hutchinson
> (Could King really have said "curvaceous" in that speech? Could I
> have heard extracts from it so many times and not noticed?)
Perhaps it is forgettable because it is not really accurately used in that
part of the speech -- I search my brain in vain for any reasonable sense in
which the mostly quite rugged mountains of California can be said to
possess curvaceous slopes. I imagine that, speaking semi-extemporaneously,
he hit on it more because of its sound (alliterating with "California")
than because of its sense.
One overlooks such piffling problems in a bravura perfomance like this
one -- one heck of a speech it was!
--
Roland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food.
NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to
remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it.
Roland Hutchinson
One internal clue is that the tune has the characteristic rhythm of a
galliard, which suggests origins no later than the first half of the
seventeenth century.
Evan Kirshenbaum
> On Jan 21, 8:12 am, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)" <m...@peterduncanson.net>
> wrote:
>> On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 12:59:19 -0800 (PST), TOF <Fran.B...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >Was Aretha singing God Save the President at the inauguration?
>>
>> "My Country 'Tis of Thee".
>>
>> Her actual performance:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AE_Dds8DfE
>>
>> >The melody did seem familiar.
>>
>> It has other uses -- "God Save the Queen" for one.
>
> Do you know the provenance of the melody?
According to Wikipedia, Samuel Francis Smith put words to Muzio
Clementi's Symphony No. 3, which was taken from "God Save the King".
That Smith wouldn't have known of the British song strains credulity,
but it appears to be the story he himself told in the nineteenth
century:
On a dismal day in February, 1832, looking over one of these books,
my attention was drawn to a tune which attracted me by its simple
and natural movement, and its fitness for children's choirs.
Glancing at the German words at the foot of the page, I saw that
they were patriotic, and I was instantly inspired to write a
patriotic hymb of my own.
Seizing a scrap of waste paper, I began to write, and in half an
hour I think the words stood upon it substantially as they are
sung today. I did not know at the time that the tune was the
British "God save the King." I do not share the regret of those
who deem it an evil that the national tune of Britain and America
is the same. On the contrary, I deem it a new and beautiful tie
of union between the mother and the daughter, one furnishing the
music (if, indeed, it is really English), and the other the words.
_Souvenir "America" Testimonial to Rev. S.F. Smith.,
D.D., Author of the National Hymn_, 1895
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |He seems to be perceptive and
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |effective because he states the
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |obvious to people that don't seem
|to see the obvious.
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com |
(650)857-7572 | Tony Cooper
LFS
Yes, I think her hat was the best bit. I just marvelled at how everyone
looked so very old. And Cheney in his wheelchair looked so wonderfully
angry.
--
Laura
(emulate St. George for email)
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
wrote:
>
>My brother the ex-pat called me a few minutes ago from Denmark to tell
>me how much he disapproved of Aretha's rendition. "Too gospel".
>
My thoughts are about the quality of Aretha's performance, not the style.
Gospel Music is an inextricable part of American culture.
The inauguration proceedings were full of meaning expressed in words and
symbols. I have no criticism of the organizers' choice of a gospel singer.
In Aretha's defence the conditions were not conducive to a top quality vocal
performance. It was relatively early in the day, she was breathing cold air
and she was probably tense because of the importance of the occasion.
Django Cat
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Rule Brittania should be the Brit National Anthem.
> That is a great song.
I'd buy into that. And you can sing it without signing up as a lackey of the chinless Windsors.
DC
--
Django Cat
> Are you interested in a little American iconography? The last two
> line of the first verse are "From every mountainside,/ Let freedom
> ring", which Aretha Franklin repeated many times at the end of her
> performance. Martin Luther King's "I have a dream" speech is one of
> the two most famous speeches in our history; he gave it in 1963 at the
> Lincoln Memorial, on the Mall in Washington, which the Capitol is at
> the other end of. For his peroration, he quoted "America" and named
> mountains around the country, including the former slave states where
> racism was still overt: "Let freedom ring from Stone Mountain of
> Georgia..."
Is that also why King talked about 'the red hills of Georgia'? I've often wondered... does Georgia have red hills?
DC
--
James Hogg
wrote:
>Raymond O'Hara filted:
>>
>>
>>"Django Cat" <nota...@address.com> wrote in message
>>news:frsdl.19$6p...@newsfe30.ams2...
>>Peter Duncanson (BrE) wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> There is no authorised version of the National Anthem as the words are
>>> a
>>> matter of tradition. Additional verses have been added down the years,
>>> but
>>> these are rarely used.
>>
>>
>>Bring back 'Rebellious Scots to crush' I say...
>
>Some national anthems are more stirring than others...on strictly musical
>grounds, I like Canada's best, followed by the old Soviet anthem....
... now the new anthem of the Russian Federation, although I
believe they changed the words..
James
James Hogg
But you can't sing it unless you're a very good singer. I dread
to think what a full Wembley Stadium would do to it.
It's hard to spell too...
When the United Kingdom disintegrates, England will always have
"Jerusalem".
James
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
James Hogg
I believe Ireland was the first country to have Hip Hop contests,
adjudicated by Rapparees.
James
Django Cat
> > When the United Kingdom disintegrates, England will always have
> > "Jerusalem".
> >
> In a Hip Hop version?
Don't tempt me...
--
James Silverton
Absolutely true! I was a bit unclear and what I actually meant was that
patriotic songs often appear on both sides of the Atlantic. "Columbia"
and "Brittannia" have the same tune and there is argument about which
set of words is earliest.
James Silverton
>> -------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Rule Brittania should be the Brit National Anthem.
>> That is a great song.
> I'd buy into that. And you can sing it without signing up as
> a lackey of the chinless Windsors.
The words are a bit dated. Isn't there something about the world
offering homage to Brittania?
tony cooper
wrote:
>jerry_f...@yahoo.com wrote:
Oh my, yes. Most of Georgia is a distinctive-appearing red clay that
is rich in iron oxides. Drive through Georgia and you will notice
that many of the vehicles on the road are reddish because they've been
driven off-pavement. What would be dark mud in other states is red
mud in Georgia.
When you think of Scotland, you think of the purple hills. That's
from plants (heather) that cover the hills. In Georgia, it's the soil
that is red.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Leslie Danks
[...]
> When you think of Scotland, you think of the purple hills. That's
> from plants (heather) that cover the hills. In Georgia, it's the soil
> that is red.
As it is in much of Devon:
<http://www.bbc.co.uk/devon/content/image_galleries/two_moors_way_walk_day4_gallery.shtml?10>
<http://tinyurl.com/8p6uxj>
--
Les (BrE)
Barbara Bailey
news:7tocn4pmf29so1c7q...@4ax.com:
> I spent the day with my grandchildren (5- and 4-years old)letting them
> take photographs at a horse training stable.
> http://tonycooper.smugmug.com/gallery/7147015_rxzuj#458551472_NRJEo
> All photos taken by them without my suggestions or help.
Your grandchilden have good photographic instincts. Numbers 2,3,9, and 12
especially are gorgeously composed.
Barbara Bailey
And that mud stains fabric. Once you've gotten red clay mud on your
clothes, no amount of washing or bleaching will ever get rid of the color
completely.
By the way if you're curious about what color it is, look at any red-clay
flowerpot. The odds are 99 to 1 that it's made with Georgia Lizella clay.
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
<not.jim....@verizon.net> wrote:
> Django wrote on Wed, 21 Jan 2009 09:21:18 GMT:
>
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Rule Brittania should be the Brit National Anthem.
>>> That is a great song.
>
>> I'd buy into that. And you can sing it without signing up as
>> a lackey of the chinless Windsors.
>
>The words are a bit dated. Isn't there something about the world
>offering homage to Brittania?
Well, you see, Britannia is God's Chosen Country. However it seems that other
peoples are expected simply to dread and envy Britannia. Homage would be a
bonus.
Rule, Britannia! Britannia, rule the waves!
Britons never, never, never shall be slaves.
When Britain first, at heaven's command,
Arose from out the azure main,
This was the charter of the land,
And Guardian Angels sang this strain:
(Chorus)
The nations not so blest as thee
Must, in their turn, to tyrants fall,
While thou shalt flourish great and free:
The dread and envy of them all.
(Chorus)
Still more majestic shalt thou rise,
More dreadful from each foreign stroke,
As the loud blast that tears the skies
Serves but to root thy native oak.
(Chorus)
Thee haughty tyrants ne'er shall tame;
All their attempts to bend thee down
Will but arouse thy generous flame,
But work their woe and thy renown.
(Chorus)
To thee belongs the rural reign;
Thy cities shall with commerce shine;
All thine shall be the subject main,
And every shore it circles, thine.
(Chorus)
The Muses, still with freedom found,
Shall to thy happy coasts repair.
Blest isle! with matchless beauty crowned,
And manly hearts to guard the fair.
(Chorus)
Rule, Britannia! Britannia, rule the waves!
Britons never, never, never shall be slaves.
From:
http://www.hymns.me.uk/rule-brittania-lyrics.htm
The words might need updating to avoid derision from Brits let alone
foreigners.
The tune is uplifting, though.
James Silverton
Perhaps I was thinking about the Britannia/Columbia song but I'm not all
that ashamed of mixing up the words of atavistic tribal lays. From time
to time, I find myself in sympathy with the words of God Save the Queen
(?): "Frustrate their knavish tricks/Confound their Politicks". That's
capable of widespread use.
jerry_f...@yahoo.com
> LFS wrote:
...
> > But when did Itzhak Perlman get so old?
While the rest of us have hardly changed.
Am I the only one who thought the Williams composition was unworthy of
the players?
> And who was the elderly black gentleman that the camera cut to four times during the inauguration? I'm guessing he was a civil rights veteran?
I heard the coverage on the radio, and I wouldn't have recognized him
if I'd seen him, but maybe Representative John Lewis (Democrat of
Georgia), who is indeed a civil-rights veteran, beaten badly as a
Freedom Rider and the youngest speaker when Martin Luther King gave
his "I have a dream" speech.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Lewis_(US_politician) (includes
picture).
--
Jerry Friedman
Django Cat
> > I'd buy into that. And you can sing it without signing up as
> > a lackey of the chinless Windsors.
>
> The words are a bit dated. Isn't there something about the world offering homage to Brittania?
> --
Don't think so... checks.
Of course, it's bombastic jingoistic twaddle, but at least it isn't bombastic jingoistic and *royalist* twaddle.
DC
--
Django Cat
I never imagined Georgia looking like Devon.
I drove up the Antrim coast a few years back. That looks like how Devon must have been about 70 years ago.
DC
--
Django Cat
> On Jan 20, 3:39 pm, "Django Cat" <notar...@address.com> wrote:
> > LFS wrote:
> ...
>
> > > But when did Itzhak Perlman get so old?
>
> While the rest of us have hardly changed.
>
> Am I the only one who thought the Williams composition was unworthy of
> the players?
No, you aren't. Aaron Copeland lite. Mind you, it's hard to keep a good tune down, and Lord of the Dance is a great tune. Shame the Shakers were celibate, they came up with some good stuff.
>
> > And who was the elderly black gentleman that the camera cut to four times during the inauguration? I'm guessing he was a civil rights veteran?
>
> I heard the coverage on the radio, and I wouldn't have recognized him
> if I'd seen him, but maybe Representative John Lewis (Democrat of
> Georgia), who is indeed a civil-rights veteran, beaten badly as a
> Freedom Rider and the youngest speaker when Martin Luther King gave
> his "I have a dream" speech.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Lewis_(US_politician) (includes
> picture).
Yes, I think that's him, thanks for the link. He was on the podium for the inauguration, and it seemed pretty clear his presence was significant.
I still think the pastor that did the closing benediction was the best bit. The poet woman was dreadful.
DC
--
irwell
Schoolkids did that at least sixty years ago.
Rule Britannia, two tanners make a bob
Three make one and six
And four two bob.
Ian Jackson
<7c03151b-33fe-4501...@w1g2000prm.googlegroups.com>, TOF
<Fran...@gmail.com> writes
>Was Aretha singing God Save the President at the inauguration?
>
>
"Familiar" it wasn't. She absolutely murdered the tune!
OK, she's getting on a bit, and singing outdoors to an audience of 2
million must be a bit daunting, but this was absolutely excruciating to
listen to.
I don't really like it when people sing overly 'jazzed-up' versions of
stately and religious (and semi-religious) songs, even if the general
tune is still recognisable. Unfortunately, in this case, few of the
notes were as intended by the composer. While some of this
'improvisation' was undoubtedly intentional, often she simply failed to
hit many of the other notes. Her rendition would have been much more
effective and also more in keeping with the occasion if she had just
stuck more-or-less to the correct tune.
Sorry for the rant, but I feel better now!
--
Ian
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
> The poet woman was dreadful.
So says Erica Wagner, Literary Editor of The Times:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article5555612.ece
If you are a little-known poet – and perhaps, let’s be completely honest,
maybe rightly so - being told you’re going to have to follow a speech by
President Barack Obama is a very, very, very bad gig to pull.
Praise Song for the Day was unmemorable. How do I know that for sure? Why,
because I can’t remember it. Two minutes after it was spoken I couldn’t
remember it. Our columnist, David Baddiel, wondered whether he couldn’t
spot the Secret Service agents hastily removing the bullet-proof screens
as she spoke; oh, I suppose that’s going a little far. But only just.
....
Some readers' comments agree with her, other swing the opposite way.
Ms Wagner is a native New Yorker, and proud of the fact. She is not a
foreigner taking a cheap shot at a Yank.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erica_Wagner
http://www.ericawagner.co.uk/aboutme.php
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
>On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 14:19:20 +0000, Peter Duncanson (BrE) wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 08:03:53 -0500, "James Silverton"
>> <not.jim....@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Django wrote on Wed, 21 Jan 2009 09:21:18 GMT:
>>>
>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Rule Brittania should be the Brit National Anthem.
>>>>> That is a great song.
>>>
>>>> I'd buy into that. And you can sing it without signing up as
>>>> a lackey of the chinless Windsors.
>>>
>>>The words are a bit dated. Isn't there something about the world
>>>offering homage to Brittania?
>>
>> Well, you see, Britannia is God's Chosen Country. However it seems that other
>> peoples are expected simply to dread and envy Britannia. Homage would be a
>> bonus.
>>
>> Rule, Britannia! Britannia, rule the waves!
>> Britons never, never, never shall be slaves.
>>
<snip> (I know, I know. "Britons never, never, never shall be snipt.")
>> From:
>> http://www.hymns.me.uk/rule-brittania-lyrics.htm
>>
>> The words might need updating to avoid derision from Brits let alone
>> foreigners.
>
>
>Schoolkids did that at least sixty years ago.
>
>Rule Britannia, two tanners make a bob
>Three make one and six
>And four two bob.
And that itself needs updating.
Ian Jackson
Duncanson (BrE)" <ma...@peterduncanson.net> writes
have pet names for our legal tender coins. The exception is maybe the
pound, which is the rarely-used "Quid" (and, humorously, when the pound
coin was introduced, "Thatcher's Nuts"), and the commemoration Crown
(originally 5 shillings / 25 pence, but latterly 5 pounds).
<http://www.royalmint.com/Corporate/facts/coins/FivePoundCoin.aspx>
Note: The "two bob" coin was also called a "florin", named after a coin
used in the Italian city of Florence.
--
Ian
James Hogg
Dusty Springfield would have done it better
but she's no longer with us.
James
Chuck Riggs
wrote:
>Raymond O'Hara filted:
>>
>>
>>"Django Cat" <nota...@address.com> wrote in message
>>news:frsdl.19$6p...@newsfe30.ams2...
>>Peter Duncanson (BrE) wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> There is no authorised version of the National Anthem as the words are
>>> a
>>> matter of tradition. Additional verses have been added down the years,
>>> but
>>> these are rarely used.
>>
>>
>>Bring back 'Rebellious Scots to crush' I say...
>
>Some national anthems are more stirring than others...on strictly musical
>grounds, I like Canada's best, followed by the old Soviet anthem....
>
>"Scotland the Brave" is pretty awesome too, but I may have been swayed by the
>usual instrumentation....r
The French one, above all the rest, sometimes brings a tear to my eye.
--
Regards,
Chuck Riggs
Near Dublin, Ireland
Chuck Riggs
wrote:
>LFS wrote:
>
>> > Jaze, but it's a grim tune, whichever set of lyrics you put to it.
>> > Fortunately Ms Franklin's singing could send shivers down my spine
>> > with Old Macdonald's Farm, so this is as good as it's going to get.
>>
>> Her hat was pretty splendid, too.
>>
>> >
>> > I liked the old guy at the end, too.
>> >
>>
>> But when did Itzhak Perlman get so old?
>
>
>And who was the elderly black gentleman that the camera cut to four times during the inauguration? I'm guessing he was a civil rights veteran?
Martin Luther King's son, I think.
tony cooper
wrote:
>>"Scotland the Brave" is pretty awesome too, but I may have been swayed by the
>>usual instrumentation....r
>
>The French one, above all the rest, sometimes brings a tear to my eye.
It's the garlic-breath that does that.
Chuck Riggs
<not.jim....@verizon.net> wrote:
> Mike wrote on Tue, 20 Jan 2009 22:46:05 -0000:
>
>> TOF wrote:
>>> On Jan 21, 8:41 am, "Django Cat" <notar...@address.com> wrote:
>>>> TOF wrote:
>>>>> Was Aretha singing God Save the President at the
>>>>> inauguration?
>>>>
>>>>> The melody did seem familiar.
>>>>
>>>>> TOF
>>>>
>>>> Jaze, but it's a grim tune, whichever set of lyrics you put to it.
>>>> Fortunately Ms Franklin's singing could send shivers down my spine
>>>> with Old Macdonald's Farm, so this is as good as it's going to get.
>>>>
>>> As someone forced to listen to this tune and its usual words for
>>> almost all of my school career, it is a dirge, but as you
>>> say, Aretha could make anything sound good. It has a bit of a
>>> gospel-jazz-blues sound and wasn't half bad.
>> [...]
>
>> This is fascinating: as I hinted in another thread, I thought she
>> stank. This is clearly /de gustibus/ territory.
>
>I'd just as soon not have listened to Aretha Franklin's take on "My
>Country Tis of Thee" but it is the same tune as "God Save the Queen" and
>both Beethoven and Haydn thought that was a pretty good melody. It takes
>a fair amount of chutzpah to place yourself above those two.
Opera singers frequently add frills of their own making to the arias
the great composers wrote, so why shouldn't the singer of an anthem,
especially when she is such a talented one?
Ian Jackson
<chr...@eircom.net> writes
Although the French one ("The Marseilles") is pretty good, the one for
me is South Africa's "Nkosi Sikelel' iAfrika".
However, I still remember, from the 1950s, "All Hail to the Chief!" from
a far-off Voice of America shortwave station 'signing off' for the
night, and heard with very deep fading and phase distortion. Very
moving.
--
Ian
Django Cat
> > And who was the elderly black gentleman that the camera cut to four times during the inauguration? I'm guessing he was a civil rights veteran?
>
> Martin Luther King's son, I think.
Googling reveals MLK3 to be only 51, this guy looked way older...
DC, 50 1/4
--
Garrett Wollman
James Hogg <Jas.H...@SPAM.gmail.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 09:21:18 GMT, "Django Cat"
><nota...@address.com> wrote:
>>Raymond O'Hara wrote:
>>> Rule Brittania should be the Brit National Anthem.
>>> That is a great song.
>>I'd buy into that. And you can sing it without signing up as a lackey
>of the chinless Windsors.
>But you can't sing it unless you're a very good singer. I dread
>to think what a full Wembley Stadium would do to it.
Your cousins on this side of the pond have, um, some experience on
that score. The English drinking tune to which Key's poem was set
does not exactly make it easy to sing. This does not stop millions of
people from doing so.
-GAWollman
--
Garrett A. Wollman | The real tragedy of human existence is not that we are
wol...@csail.mit.edu| nasty by nature, but that a cruel structural asymmetry
Opinions not those | grants to rare events of meanness such power to shape
of MIT or CSAIL. | our history. - S.J. Gould, Ten Thousand Acts of Kindness
tony cooper
<ianREMOVET...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk> wrote:
I didn't see it live, but it's on YouTube at
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psp06SBFIzQ
Criticizing Aretha in the US is like criticizing Mom, flag, and Sweet
Potato Pie, but the performance makes my teeth ache.
Garrett Wollman
jerry_f...@yahoo.com <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Am I the only one who thought the Williams composition was unworthy of
>the players?
This is a rather difficult proposition for me (and, I suspect, many of
the millions who watched the event either in person or on television)
to make sense of. I doubt most viewers paid it more than passing
attention; filler is filler.
Many people are more likely to have heard of Williams (due to his fame
as a composer of film scores) than any of the players.
Ian Jackson
<tony_co...@earthlink.net> writes
rendition as "an assessment"?
Re YouTube: I think I'll pass on your kind invitation to watch it again.
Immediately before Christmas, I had a tooth crowned, and it's taking an
unusually long time to settle down.
--
Ian
Cece
wrote:
> On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 19:33:06 -0500, "Raymond O'Hara"
>
>
>
>
>
> <raymond-oh...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >"Peter Duncanson (BrE)" <m...@peterduncanson.net> wrote in message
> >news:qdfcn41j9dqahn1lk...@4ax.com...
> >> On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 12:59:19 -0800 (PST), TOF <Fran.B...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>Was Aretha singing God Save the President at the inauguration?
>
>
> >> Her actual performance:
> >>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AE_Dds8DfE
>
> >>>The melody did seem familiar.
>
>
> >Yeah, you Brits are always stealing our songs. ;)
>
> Obama swore the oath on a copy of the KJV Bible. This may mean he now owes
> allegiance to the successor of KJ.
>
> --
> Peter Duncanson, UK
> (in alt.usage.english)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
His Majesty's rebellious colonel used an Authorised Version, printed
in England in 1767. http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0500250.htm
(is a good account, it seems, except that the final phrase spoken may
not have been spoken; it was not recorded at the time).
James Silverton
To my mind, there were no serious glitches in the ceremony and most
variations can be attributed to personal taste. Rev. Warren, giving the
invocation, added the doxology ("for thine is the kingdom....") to the
Lord's Prayer but that's a common enough practice in many churches.
--
James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland
Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not
Mike Lyle
> On Jan 20, 2:59 pm, TOF <Fran.B...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Was Aretha singing God Save the President at the inauguration?
>>
>
> "My Country, 'Tis of Thee", as Sen. Feinstein did.
I find it hard to remember that the proper title is "America": I think
because it's close enough to set up an interference with the one about
spacious skies and fruited plain.
>
[...]
> I doubt I'm the only person here who was surprised as a child to learn
> that the British, our enemies in the Revolutionary War (which is a
> mainstay of primary-school history),
I do wish it was taught at a more sophisticated level than that!
> used "our" tune for their
> national anthem.
>
[...]
> Martin Luther King's "I have a dream" speech is one of
> the two most famous speeches in our history; [...]>
> http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/mlkihaveadream.htm (It's
> worth listening to as well as reading.)
[...]
I remember it, or the feeling, well from the time. But it was the first
time I'd ever heard that style of oratory, and I'm sorry to say it came
across to me as histrionic and alien. I had to have it explained that
some US churches ring with sermons sounding rather like that every
Sunday. Having some of Alan Lomax's recordings of spine-tingling
vernacular church music helped me over this hurdle.
--
Mike.
Django Cat
> > I'd buy into that. And you can sing it without signing up as a lackey of the chinless Windsors.
>
> But you can't sing it unless you're a very good singer.
Mmm. Exactly *how* *many* notes do they get into the word 'first'?
DC
--
R H Draney
>
>Perhaps I was thinking about the Britannia/Columbia song but I'm not all
>that ashamed of mixing up the words of atavistic tribal lays. From time
>to time, I find myself in sympathy with the words of God Save the Queen
>(?): "Frustrate their knavish tricks/Confound their Politicks". That's
>capable of widespread use.
Scans wrong over here though...the stress in "confound" is always on the final
syllable....r
--
"You got Schadenfreude on my Weltanschauung!"
"You got Weltanschauung in my Schadenfreude!"
Django Cat
> No it doesn't. There's nothing to update it to! We can't. We no longer have pet names for our legal tender coins. The exception is maybe the pound, which is the rarely-used "Quid" (and, humorously, when the pound coin was introduced, "Thatcher's Nuts"), and the commemoration Crown (originally 5 shillings / 25 pence, but latterly 5 pounds).
> <http://www.royalmint.com/Corporate/facts/coins/FivePoundCoin.aspx>
>
> Note: The "two bob" coin was also called a "florin", named after a coin used in the Italian city of Florence.
Yup, good episode of University Challenge this week.
DC
--
Mike Lyle
> "Peter Duncanson (BrE)" <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote in message
> news:qdfcn41j9dqahn1lk...@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 12:59:19 -0800 (PST), TOF <Fran...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> Was Aretha singing God Save the President at the inauguration?
>>>
>>
>>
>> Her actual performance:
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AE_Dds8DfE
>>
>>>
>>
>
> Yeah, you Brits are always stealing our songs. ;)
Why should the Devil have all the best tunes?
--
Mike.
Mike Lyle
[...]
> Note: The "two bob" coin was also called a "florin", named after a
> coin used in the Italian city of Florence.
And, I understand, the sole relic of a stalled Victorian project of
decimalization.
--
Mike.
Pat Durkin
> jerry_f...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>> On Jan 20, 3:39 pm, "Django Cat" <notar...@address.com> wrote:
>>> LFS wrote:
>> ...
>>
>>>> But when did Itzhak Perlman get so old?
>>
>>
>> Am I the only one who thought the Williams composition was unworthy
>> of the players?
>
> good tune down, and Lord of the Dance is a great tune. Shame the
> Shakers were celibate, they came up with some good stuff.
I had forgotten the Aaron Copeland treatment. I didn't feel happy with
Williams' combination "Air and Simple Gifts", because the song, to me,
deals with simple things, and the orchestration, I felt was overblown
and complicated.
>
> I still think the pastor that did the closing benediction was the
> best bit.
Lowery was very good, indeed, in spite of the cold and windy weather.
In replaying the President's speech, the one phrase that really caught
my attention the first time through had to do with "pick yourself up,
dust yourself off. . .*" and Obama stopped just short of "and start all
over again" (I think he said, "begin again").
*Swing Time, 1936, Ginger Rogers and Fred Astaire film, though the song
has been sung innumerable times by many artists, among them Frank
Sinatra.
James Hogg
Five. The second syllable of "arose" is stretched to nine.
It's just asking to be destroyed.
James
Mike Lyle
> jerry_f...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>> On Jan 20, 3:39 pm, "Django Cat" <notar...@address.com> wrote:
>>> LFS wrote:
>> ...
>>
>>>> But when did Itzhak Perlman get so old?
>>
>> While the rest of us have hardly changed.
>>
>> Am I the only one who thought the Williams composition was unworthy
>> of the players?
>
> No, you aren't. Aaron Copeland lite. Mind you, it's hard to keep a
> good tune down, and Lord of the Dance is a great tune. Shame the
> Shakers were celibate, they came up with some good stuff.
Yes, they should have witheld at least part of his fee. But then, on the
other hand, he's isn't Korngold, so they shouldn't have expected much
more than they got.
>
>>
[...]>
> I still think the pastor that did the closing benediction was the
> best bit. The poet woman was dreadful.
>
Wasn't she just?
But while it's refreshing to see a President who recognizes
non-believers as Americans, wasn't there a bit too much Christian prayer
going on? (Somebody's already mentioned O'Bama's taking the "S'welp me
Gawd" option in another thread.) Was that as much as anything intended
to shut up anti-Muslim loonies like PG?
--
Mike.
James Hogg
wrote:
>James Silverton filted:
>>
>>Perhaps I was thinking about the Britannia/Columbia song but I'm not all
>>that ashamed of mixing up the words of atavistic tribal lays. From time
>>to time, I find myself in sympathy with the words of God Save the Queen
>>(?): "Frustrate their knavish tricks/Confound their Politicks". That's
>>capable of widespread use.
>
>Scans wrong over here though...the stress in "confound" is always on the final
>syllable....r
No problem when you sing it. At its normal slow tempo, every
syllable is given equal stress, as in vic-tor-ee-ous or hap-ee.
James
Mike Lyle
Hell, /I/ would probably have done it better.
--
Mike.
Percival P. Cassidy
> I still think the pastor that did the closing benediction was the best bit. The poet woman was dreadful.
As a retired pastor with some experience of leading people in worship, I
kept wishing that the pastor would stop --Enough already! -- but then he
had some truly cringe-inducing phrases at the end; fortunately, I can no
longer recall what they were.
I wouldn't say that the poet was dreadful, but I will admit that she
didn't make much of an impression on me.
Perce
Skitt
I am no fan of poetry, especially of the kind that has no rhyme, no form, no
meter. To me, it is just regular prose, read in a halting way, pretending
to be something it isn't. The woman's presentation did nothing to dispel
that notion.
--
Skitt (AmE)
Prai Jei
continuum:
> According to Wikipedia, Samuel Francis Smith put words to Muzio
> Clementi's Symphony No. 3, which was taken from "God Save the King".
Is that the same Clementi who wrote the music for "A Groovy Kind of Love"?
--
ξ:) Proud to be curly
Interchange the alphabetic letter groups to reply
James Hogg
wrote:
Playing tennis without a net, as Robert Frost called it.
>The woman's presentation did nothing to dispel
>that notion.
You can read the printed version here:
http://poets.org/viewmedia.php/prmMID/20545?gclid=CKfCr9e3oJgCFQyjQwodoTP8Iw
It's not entirely without form. It's arranged in three-line
verses, and figures recur in threes, as in
"On the brink, on the brim, on the cusp".
As you say, there is no fixed metre. Line length varies between 8
and 11 syllables, but I read it to myself and found a pleasing
rhythm in it, Unfortunately, Elizabeth Alexander rather destroyed
that as she read it. Poets are often extremely bad at reciting
their own poems. Some of them should leave the job to good
actors.
James
Skitt
> "Skitt" wrote:
>> Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
>>> Django Cat wrote:
>>>> I still think the pastor that did the closing benediction was the
>>>> best bit. The poet woman was dreadful.
>>>
>>> As a retired pastor with some experience of leading people in
>>> worship, I kept wishing that the pastor would stop --Enough already!
>>> -- but then he had some truly cringe-inducing phrases at the end;
>>> fortunately, I can no longer recall what they were.
>>>
>>> I wouldn't say that the poet was dreadful, but I will admit that she
>>> didn't make much of an impression on me.
>>
>> I am no fan of poetry, especially of the kind that has no rhyme, no
>> form, no meter. To me, it is just regular prose, read in a halting
>> way, pretending to be something it isn't.
>
> Playing tennis without a net, as Robert Frost called it.
>
>> The woman's presentation did nothing to dispel
>> that notion.
>
> You can read the printed version here:
> http://poets.org/viewmedia.php/prmMID/20545?gclid=CKfCr9e3oJgCFQyjQwodoTP8Iw
>
> It's not entirely without form. It's arranged in three-line
> verses, and figures recur in threes, as in
> "On the brink, on the brim, on the cusp".
About the three-line verses,
there's no reason for them
to be that way.
The line divisions seem to be
there purely to keep the lines
at about the same length.
Of the figures, as you call them,
there are several in threes,
but I see also twos and fours.
In one place, the threes are created
by a verse split in mid-sentence.
And this is my "poem".
> As you say, there is no fixed metre. Line length varies between 8
> and 11 syllables, but I read it to myself and found a pleasing
> rhythm in it, Unfortunately, Elizabeth Alexander rather destroyed
> that as she read it. Poets are often extremely bad at reciting
> their own poems. Some of them should leave the job to good
> actors.
I don't know if anyone could make something more pleasing of that "poem".
I agree with Django Cat that the presentation was dreadful.
--
Skitt (AmE)
whose dad wrote poetry that was published, but that was in another country
and another language.
Default User
> tony cooper <tony_co...@earthlink.net> wrote in
> news:3g8en4lpso7o9ll0f...@4ax.com:
> > When you think of Scotland, you think of the purple hills. That's
> > from plants (heather) that cover the hills. In Georgia, it's the
> > soil that is red.
>
> And that mud stains fabric. Once you've gotten red clay mud on your
> clothes, no amount of washing or bleaching will ever get rid of the
> color completely.
Oklahoma as well.
<http://www.flickr.com/photos/birdiespix/459296805/in/set-72157600178142
618/>
My mother was quite dismayed when, after we first moved there, we went
swimming in a lake while wearing white T-shirts.
Brian
--
If televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who
won't shut up.
-- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com)
James Hogg
wrote:
Very good. You didn't happen to write "The Emperor's New
Clothes", did you?
>> As you say, there is no fixed metre. Line length varies between 8
>> and 11 syllables, but I read it to myself and found a pleasing
>> rhythm in it, Unfortunately, Elizabeth Alexander rather destroyed
>> that as she read it. Poets are often extremely bad at reciting
>> their own poems. Some of them should leave the job to good
>> actors.
>
>I don't know if anyone could make something more pleasing of that "poem".
>
>I agree with Django Cat that the presentation was dreadful.
They should have got George W. Bush to recite it.
James
Skitt
Actually, except for the last line, I wrote the above as a regular prose
paragraph. Then I got the silly idea to split it up in three-line verses to
mock the other work. It took me less than a minute to do that.
It ain't poetry.
--
Skitt (AmE)
irwell
He also missed out 'and ever' after 'forever'.
LFS
> "Django Cat" <nota...@address.com> wrote in message
> news:KBHdl.17867$P%3.3...@newsfe21.ams2
>> jerry_f...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>>> On Jan 20, 3:39 pm, "Django Cat" <notar...@address.com> wrote:
>>>> LFS wrote:
>>> ...
>>>
>>>>> But when did Itzhak Perlman get so old?
>>>
>>> While the rest of us have hardly changed.
>>>
>>> Am I the only one who thought the Williams composition was unworthy
>>> of the players?
>>
>> No, you aren't. Aaron Copeland lite. Mind you, it's hard to keep a
>> good tune down, and Lord of the Dance is a great tune. Shame the
>> Shakers were celibate, they came up with some good stuff.
We visited a Shaker settlement in October and learned that there are
still groups of Shakers around today.
>
> I had forgotten the Aaron Copeland treatment. I didn't feel happy with
> Williams' combination "Air and Simple Gifts", because the song, to me,
> deals with simple things, and the orchestration, I felt was overblown
> and complicated.
I agree.
>
>
>>
>> I still think the pastor that did the closing benediction was the
>> best bit.
>
> Lowery was very good, indeed, in spite of the cold and windy weather.
>
> In replaying the President's speech, the one phrase that really caught
> my attention the first time through had to do with "pick yourself up,
> dust yourself off. . .*" and Obama stopped just short of "and start all
> over again" (I think he said, "begin again").
Yes, I was expecting him to burst into song!
>
> *Swing Time, 1936, Ginger Rogers and Fred Astaire film, though the song
> has been sung innumerable times by many artists, among them Frank Sinatra.
>
>
I thought the mistress of ceremonies was very good. She had an air of
contained excitement which seemed to encapsulate the atmosphere of the
whole event.
--
Laura
(emulate St. George for email)
LFS
<boggle> I think that assertion needs to be tested. I've made a note for
the next boink.
Roland Hutchinson
> On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 18:59:22 -0500, tony cooper
> <tony_co...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>My brother the ex-pat called me a few minutes ago from Denmark to tell
>>me how much he disapproved of Aretha's rendition. "Too gospel".
>>
> My thoughts are about the quality of Aretha's performance, not the style.
> Gospel Music is an inextricable part of American culture.
>
> The inauguration proceedings were full of meaning expressed in words and
> symbols. I have no criticism of the organizers' choice of a gospel singer.
>
> In Aretha's defence the conditions were not conducive to a top quality
> vocal performance. It was relatively early in the day, she was breathing
> cold air and she was probably tense because of the importance of the
> occasion.
You'll have noticed that Yo-Yo didn't bring his good cello, either.
That is to say, it was a good cello -- a very fine modern instrument, but
not the Davidoff Strad.
--
Roland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food.
NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to
remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it.
Evan Kirshenbaum
> Evan Kirshenbaum set the following eddies spiralling through the
> space-time continuum:
>
>> According to Wikipedia, Samuel Francis Smith put words to Muzio
>> Clementi's Symphony No. 3, which was taken from "God Save the
>> King".
>
> Is that the same Clementi who wrote the music for "A Groovy Kind of
> Love"?
Yup. That's the guy.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |It is error alone which needs the
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |support of government. Truth can
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |stand by itself.
| Thomas Jefferson
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com
(650)857-7572
Mike Lyle
But, looking now at the online edition at James's link, I'm reminded
that there were actually some good strong striking ideas. As suggested
above (by James? Viv?), an actor could have made a better fist of it,
and quite possibly concealed its prosiness. ...But not necessarily:
Radio 3 has just done /Paradise Lost/ and some other Milton, and I was
struck by the actor's great clarity, but also by his shying away from
some of Milton's rhythms and, relatedly, by his over-use of our modern
schwa. Our age, it seems to me, is rather embarrassed by poetry.
--
Mike.
James Silverton
I am supposed to be rather insensitive to rhythm but I think I can
appreciate poetry sometimes. I have tried to find a definition of
current poetry that makes sense to me but it often seems that, if
someone says they are a poet, what they write is poetry even if it
sounds like prose with unusual syntax to me. That might describe the
poem at the inauguration.
On the other hand, there is quite a lot of apparent prose that can be
arranged to apparently be poetry. Didn't W.B Yeats successfully print
Walter Pater's words on the Mona Lisa as poetry ("She is older than the
rocks on which she sits......")? Some of Frederick Douglas's, speeches
can also be arranged that way.
--
James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland
Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not