Do we have copyright on drawings submitted at tender stage ?
simon
We were invited to price a scheme which we were pleased to do but
unfoutunatley came in over budget. We were then invited to redesign
and submit an alternative design, which we did and this scheme was on
budget.
WE were then invited to several meetings with the whole project team
where our design was tabled and accepted.
The main contractor awarded a contract to a specialist sub contractor
who was in turn to give us the order for the design work. Having
handed over the GA's (general elevations) and part survey we were told
we were no longer required.
Recentley, we have discovered the building has been completed to our
exact design.
The question is......
a) do we have copyright or an other rights to our design handed over
at tender stage ?
if yes
b) who has infinged our rights, the main contractor, the specialist or
the whole team ?
and the 64$ question....
c) what come back have we ? Can we demand payment for the design,
some sort of £ compensation, a share of the savings our design
created, anything or nothing ?
We are a small company serious, practical and considered answers would
be most
welcome.
Thanks,
Regards,
Paull
Peter Fox
Q: [Might sound stupid - but very important]. What were you being paid
to do? If you were providing consultancy and technical know-how then
were you paid for what you did do?
The reason for this question is that it _might_ be argued that you
_were_ paid for the GA and that after that there was no contract to
employ you in a further capacity. If this clearly wasn't the
arrangement then you have a strong case for theft of your intellectual
property providing there is clear evidence as you say that the thing was
built to your spec. that should be a fairly simple matter of fact where
the give away is in the detail.
Put in a bill to whoever 'used' your design or whoever was paid for your
work. Then sue them.
Also they/partners may belong to a professional body such and they may
have some way of investigating complaints against their members for
professional misconduct. They may also have independent experts who can
say "these are the plans used to build this building".
Obviously you need a specialist lawyer. Ask around. Let the whole
trade know you have been shafted and who did it. You may not get
business from them again (and you don't want it anyway) but others in
the trade may be very grateful for the warning.
It will cost time and money. Unfortunately that is one of the overheads
that you need to build into your fees.
--
PETER FOX Not the same since the submarine business went under
2 Tees Close, Witham, Essex. p...@eminent.demon.co.uk
Gravity beer in Essex <http://www.eminent.demon.co.uk>
simon
> Following on from simon's message. . .
>
> Q: [Might sound stupid - but very important]. What were you being paid
> to do? If you were providing consultancy and technical know-how then
> were you paid for what you did do?
>
> The reason for this question is that it _might_ be argued that you
> _were_ paid for the GA and that after that there was no contract to
> employ you in a further capacity. If this clearly wasn't the
> arrangement then you have a strong case for theft of your intellectual
> property providing there is clear evidence as you say that the thing was
> built to your spec. that should be a fairly simple matter of fact where
> the give away is in the detail.
>
> Put in a bill to whoever 'used' your design or whoever was paid for your
> work. Then sue them.
>
> Also they/partners may belong to a professional body such and they may
> have some way of investigating complaints against their members for
> professional misconduct. They may also have independent experts who can
> say "these are the plans used to build this building".
>
> Obviously you need a specialist lawyer. Ask around. Let the whole
> trade know you have been shafted and who did it. You may not get
> business from them again (and you don't want it anyway) but others in
> the trade may be very grateful for the warning.
>
> It will cost time and money. Unfortunately that is one of the overheads
> that you need to build into your fees.
Reply - 03 Spetember
We were not being paid for anything, it was a tender submission ie we
were after the job.
Regards Si xxx
simon
>
> Q: [Might sound stupid - but very important]. What were you being paid
> to do? If you were providing consultancy and technical know-how then
> were you paid for what you did do?
>
> The reason for this question is that it _might_ be argued that you
> _were_ paid for the GA and that after that there was no contract to
> employ you in a further capacity. If this clearly wasn't the
> arrangement then you have a strong case for theft of your intellectual
> property providing there is clear evidence as you say that the thing was
> built to your spec. that should be a fairly simple matter of fact where
> the give away is in the detail.
>
> Put in a bill to whoever 'used' your design or whoever was paid for your
> work. Then sue them.
>
> Also they/partners may belong to a professional body such and they may
> have some way of investigating complaints against their members for
> professional misconduct. They may also have independent experts who can
> say "these are the plans used to build this building".
>
> Obviously you need a specialist lawyer. Ask around. Let the whole
> trade know you have been shafted and who did it. You may not get
> business from them again (and you don't want it anyway) but others in
> the trade may be very grateful for the warning.
>
> It will cost time and money. Unfortunately that is one of the overheads
> that you need to build into your fees.
Reply - 03 Spetember
simon
J. Allan
news:b9707e85.0309...@posting.google.com
> My partner and I operate a small Ltd. design company.
>
> We were invited to price a scheme which we were pleased to do but
> unfoutunatley came in over budget. We were then invited to redesign
> and submit an alternative design, which we did and this scheme was on
> budget.
>
> WE were then invited to several meetings with the whole project team
> where our design was tabled and accepted.
>
> The main contractor awarded a contract to a specialist sub contractor
> who was in turn to give us the order for the design work. Having
> handed over the GA's (general elevations) and part survey we were told
> we were no longer required.
>
> Recentley, we have discovered the building has been completed to our
> exact design.
>
> The question is......
>
> a) do we have copyright or an other rights to our design handed over
> at tender stage ?
Yes copyright vests on creation in the author and thereafter is a
tradeable right.
You have copyright in your artistic work
UNLESS:
1) There was a binding agreement that the copyright vested on creation,
or later transferred to someone else,
OR
2) you later reproduced your own artistic work (say as part of the
design subcontract you described) and traded or licensed the copyright
in that work to another person (under the contract, or otherwise).
> if yes
>
> b) who has infinged our rights, the main contractor, the specialist or
> the whole team ?
I can't tell. That's for you to prove.
But if you had a standard sort of designer's contract which said that
copyright did not pass until you were paid in full, then you may have a
contract dispute about whether you were paid in full.
You still have to establish what part or parts of your copyright
artistic work have been wrongfully appropriated (and which parts might
have been rightfully traded away).
>
> and the 64$ question....
>
> c) what come back have we ? Can we demand payment for the design,
> some sort of £ compensation, a share of the savings our design
> created, anything or nothing ?
If there is a copyright breach you can claim any or all of the above.
Whether you get them or not is a different matter. Your solicitor can
advise you.
> We are a small company serious, practical and considered answers would
> be most
> welcome.
If you want legal advice about your business consult a solicitor.
John
Tim Jackson
> My partner and I operate a small Ltd. design company.
>
> We were invited to price a scheme which we were pleased to do but
> unfoutunatley came in over budget. We were then invited to redesign
> and submit an alternative design, which we did and this scheme was on
> budget.
>
> WE were then invited to several meetings with the whole project team
> where our design was tabled and accepted.
>
> The main contractor awarded a contract to a specialist sub contractor
> who was in turn to give us the order for the design work. Having
> handed over the GA's (general elevations) and part survey we were told
> we were no longer required.
>
> Recentley, we have discovered the building has been completed to our
> exact design.
>
> The question is......
>
> a) do we have copyright or an other rights to our design handed over
> at tender stage ?
You may have copyright in the design of the building as a work of
architecture.
If it involves the design of a more industrial article you may have UK or
European Community unregistered design right.
Consider also whether there has been a misuse of your confidential
information. See Inline v UCI for a case involving a tender bid. You
will find several discussions of this case if you search Google for the
keywords Inline, UCI and confidential. One example is at
http://www.olswang.com/ip/legal_news/confidential_design.html.
Note that the outcome will depend on the circumstances surrounding your
tender bid. In their particular circumstances, Inline lost. That was
partly because it appeared that the defendants didn't make use of
Inline's confidential information, and partly that if they did, then
Inline had implicitly given them authority to do so. Your circumstances
may be different, giving you a better chance. Speak to a solicitor with
experience of intellectual property disputes.
--
Tim Jackson
ne...@winterbourne.freeserve.invalid
(Change '.invalid' to '.co.uk' to reply direct)
Absurd patents: visit http://www.patent.freeserve.co.uk