Essay
Bill Oddie
Shaun Cawdery
Bill Oddie <hpa...@globalnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7jjsun$56p$2...@gxsn.com...
> What do you define as an essay?
I think it depends on what you are used to writing (assuming we are talking
about what the length of an essay is).
Shaun
fionam...@my-deja.com
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Josh Smith
<hpa...@globalnet.co.uk> wrote:
>What do you define as an essay?
>
According to Fowler's Original Modern English Usage, an 'essay' is any
piece of writing -- or as Mr & Mr Fowler put it, 'a literary work of
indeterminate length.'
Which is why Fiona McCarthy's post about Business Studies students not
having to write 'essays' is such complete bollocks ;-) Any sort of
written response to a question is an 'essay' per sec.
But then I guess it's not her fault that 'A' Level BS Chief Examiners
don't know the proper meaning of words .... bit like 'vocational'
really......
Josh
--
Josh Smith ---- Media & Technology Freelance Writer
*NEW* Author of 'Internet Culture ies' ISBN 1-8407-8018-5
"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies,
but the silence of our friends." ---- Martin Luther King Jnr.
Bill Oddie
>
> >What do you define as an essay?
> >
>
> According to Fowler's Original Modern English Usage, an 'essay' is any
> piece of writing -- or as Mr & Mr Fowler put it, 'a literary work of
> indeterminate length.'
>
> Which is why Fiona McCarthy's post about Business Studies students not
> having to write 'essays' is such complete bollocks ;-) Any sort of
> written response to a question is an 'essay' per sec.
>
I thought. Using the def. I think she suggested would mean History would
also only have 1 essay.
> --
>
>
>
>
>
fionam...@my-deja.com
essays. Students have to choose ONE only. Other Business Studies boards
do not have an essay paper.
End of story.
I notice Bill did not answer my question about which school was the
confereence held at...maybe he is a disgruntled teacher! were outsiders
(i.e. members of the public) allowed in? how many people went and was it
free or did you get charged/ripped off? did CS make a profit out of it
or what? the story must be told
:-))In article <7jmgk7$e7c$3...@gxsn.com>,
Tom Mills
> According to Fowler's Original Modern English Usage, an 'essay' is any
> piece of writing -- or as Mr & Mr Fowler put it, 'a literary work of
> indeterminate length.'
Yep, that sounds horribly like mine. Not so sure about the literary bit
though.
Tom
Bill Oddie
<fionam...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:7jmpq3$re$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In AEB Business studies there is an essay paper...on which appear
> essays. Students have to choose ONE only. Other Business Studies boards
> do not have an essay paper.
>
of essays is not the fairest of comparisons.
>
> I notice Bill did not answer my question about which school was the
> confereence held at...maybe he is a disgruntled teacher! were outsiders
> (i.e. members of the public) allowed in? how many people went and was it
> free or did you get charged/ripped off? did CS make a profit out of it
> or what? the story must be told
>
going to a charity so he does have a heart somewhere (still an arsehole).
There were two talks the first one I went to there must have been about
30-40 people mostly other BS students that I knew and a few others that must
have been from other subjects. I think my teachers like him, don't know why
all he seems to do is slagg them and examiners of (and surely in the process
the people who take the exams).
> :-))In article <7jmgk7$e7c$3...@gxsn.com>,
> "Bill Oddie" <hpa...@globalnet.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > >What do you define as an essay?
> > > >
> > >
> > > According to Fowler's Original Modern English Usage, an 'essay' is
> any
> > > piece of writing -- or as Mr & Mr Fowler put it, 'a literary work of
> > > indeterminate length.'
> > >
Ian Ford
>I notice Bill did not answer my question about which school was the
>confereence held at...maybe he is a disgruntled teacher! were outsiders
Nah, that'd be me :-)
There's no reason whatsoever for him to have to tell you his location
if he chooses not to, whether he's a teacher, student or a
telly-tubby. It'd look real weak to attack him on a point like that.
Fact is that he has an opinion. So do you (I assume you've heard CS
speak?). I don't have an opinion on the quality of the lectures.
It's interesting to hear others talk about them though.
Ian
--
Ian and Cath Ford
The view from Beccles.
You know what to do: replace the dots but leave the .s if you want to reply to us.
fionam...@my-deja.com
unfair. It is difficult in any subject to fully compare like with
like.
Also for some people an essay is easier than numerical work (and vice
versa).
Another factor is the degre of choice. For example 2 essays out of 8
is perhaps easier than one essay out of four......
Then there's the title, the standard of marking....etc.
In geography for example all previous papers ask you to compare two
hazards whereas this year no comparison, just write about one.
Is that harder or easier...? I really don't know
:-))
Now this conference - how do you KNOW the money went to charity - and
which one anyway?
You sound as if there were non-Business Studies students there? I
always thought it was just for Business Studies otr just for
Economics....were Geographers there too?
How much were the total charges?
Was it all day or just the morning?
Did he slag off the teachers in front of you?
If he was such an a***hole why didn't you argue back in class? (Or
perhaps you did?)
30-40 people sounds like quite a big class.......
You didn't say which school......not ashamed are you? <wink>
[In
article <7jpc0d$j81$5...@gxsn.com>,
"Bill Oddie" <hpa...@globalnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
> <fionam...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:7jmpq3$re$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> > In AEB Business studies there is an essay paper...on which appear
> > essays. Students have to choose ONE only. Other Business Studies
boards
> > do not have an essay paper.
> >
> What I was impling was that judging the hardness of an A-level by the
amount
> of essays is not the fairest of comparisons.
> >
> > I notice Bill did not answer my question about which school was the
> > confereence held at...maybe he is a disgruntled teacher! were
outsiders
Ian Ford
>Then there's the title, the standard of marking....etc.
>In geography for example all previous papers ask you to compare two
>hazards whereas this year no comparison, just write about one.
Sorry, is this London B you're talking about here (6216 last
Tuesday?). If so (and it's an important if) not all the previous
papers asked for two examples. Jan's did I think, maybe even last
June's, but there are plenty of other examples which didn't. Also I'm
not sure (I don't have the paper in front of me) if this years paper
asked for just one hazard. Iirc you could have used as many examples
as you wanted to - only one would actually be extremely limiting in
your answer.
Sorry - it's crucial to your point in some ways (and I'm a
pedant....).
Would it be easier or harder? Probably harder actually - you have to
know more depth if you're limited to one or two examples. If you are
ulimited imo it's more likely you'd get credit for rather more
broad-brush points - although there's still the requirement for some
detail. On the whole it probably wouldn't make that much difference.
Does the number of choice make a difference? Again, probably not.
You'll often find that although there may be 12 essays (6216 for
example) that you've only been prepared for 2. Exam boards set it up
this way to provide choice of modules but then limited choice within
the paper.
Depends I guess.
Bill Oddie
> Now this conference - how do you KNOW the money went to charity - and
> which one anyway?
I don't know it was quite obscure, he gave us a fact sheet which I'll admit
I didn't read. Can't say I care, I don't know what bad things the charity
did to deserve his support.
> You sound as if there were non-Business Studies students there? I
> always thought it was just for Business Studies otr just for
> Economics....were Geographers there too?
I have no idea, I didn't really recognize them
> How much were the total charges?
I honestly can't, remember not that much.
> Was it all day or just the morning?
Just the morning, then another group in the afternoon.
>
> Did he slag off the teachers in front of you?
No just the examiners, do you want details?
>
> If he was such an a***hole why didn't you argue back in class? (Or
> perhaps you did?)
We didn't argue with him, there are quite "loud" people in my classes and we
were all just stunned by his arrogance and manner. The next BS class though
we did have a go at our teacher for making us pay to fuel that pricks ego.
> 30-40 people sounds like quite a big class......
That was all the BS students, not a class..
> You didn't say which school......not ashamed are you? <wink>
No, but how relevent is this? Are you enquiring about how far he travelled
or something? <frown>
Josh Smith
>Judging the hardness of an A level by essays alone, I agree would be
>unfair. It is difficult in any subject to fully compare like with
>like.
>
>
>Also for some people an essay is easier than numerical work (and vice
>versa).
>
>
>Another factor is the degre of choice. For example 2 essays out of 8
>is perhaps easier than one essay out of four......
>
>
>
>Then there's the title, the standard of marking....etc.
>In geography for example all previous papers ask you to compare two
>hazards whereas this year no comparison, just write about one.
>
>
>
>
>Is that harder or easier...? I really don't know
>
>:-))
>
>Now this conference - how do you KNOW the money went to charity - and
>which one anyway?
>
It's interesting how people's methods of writing and layout of posts
can spread to other people. There was an article about it in a.u.e.
You tend to write in the same as Chris, with two of three nl's between
each sentence. You also use put smileys on new lines and use '...' a
great deal. (elipsis aren't they?)
Oh and all the money from Chris' conferences go towards treating
Dystonia sufferers IIRC.
fionam...@my-deja.com
:-)0
I admit I am curious. There seems to be a contradiction in what you
portray.
On the one hand you say he is arrogant and a wanker - mainly cos he
keeps saying BS is easy (I assume).
And yet.....
You also post that it is easy.
and yet......
If it is so easy how does it help him - who derives his income from
teaching BS - to go around telling people it is easy? If I was a teacher
and I told you what I taught was really easy then you would think less
of me for teaching it over, say, two years. So thus I wouldn't tell you
it was easy!
see how it doesn't tie in with the arrogance? also he is an examiner so
saying something is easy further demeans his position......again,
hardly a sign of arrogance! stupidity yes, but not arrogance.
Then you talk about the charity.....ummm if what he was doing was free
i.e. he received no ŁŁŁŁs then that too does not quite fit how you
describe him does it? I am not defending him (or attacking apart from
calling him stupid, just pointing out the illogicalities in your "essay"
:-))
If he gave out a factsheet to you then clearly he was at least trying to
raise awareness of the charity - a good thing surely? (and dismally
failing if you cannot remember the name!)
Also if there were loud people in the group and there were...30-40 then
surely that was enough of you to voice your disagreement? 40 - 1
(however arrogant) is easily enough to squash someone! what did he
actually say that you disagreed with? you say he said it was an easy A
level; you said that yourself.
Now, the name of your school...or at least location. From what I gather
he claims petrol on a mileage basis....hence my question. Also - being
nosey here - what topics was he supposed to cover? and are you AEB? You
see the odd thing about all this is that according to the leaflets sent
round and the website the written feedback from teachers is unanimous
(spelling?) i.e. that the conferences are excellent...which therefore
seems odd from how you post.
Surely if it was that crappy then your teacher(s) would also have
complained....maybe they did and his college/himself (almost slipped
into a capital "H" then :-)) are just hiding things.
If your teachers did complain and he is hiding things then we need to
expose him; if they did not complain, then why not?
So, in the interetss of "The Truth" post away!
(Incidently this is not as deceitful as it sounds. This is an education
forum and anyone can see what is written so there is nothing underhand
about all this!)
This forum is for discussion so all join in.....are there any other
schools he has been too apart from whereveer Bill teaches (:-)))
studies in?
If you don't know how much the conference cost then presumably it was
free to you. Did you really gain nothing?and if you gained nothing at
all then why didn't you walk/storm out? you say you were stunned....a
whole morning is a long time to be stunned!
<still thinking aloud>
If he is paid petrol money then in some cases there is virtually no
profit in it i.e. if your school is near but in other cases there must
be quite a lot of ŁŁŁ involved (and a lot of travel time).n If you were
just the morning class then the lesson/rant must have been 2 hrs max -
not very long.
Did your teachers havea go at him at all i.e. if the morning was SO BAD
then presumably the after lunch people would have been treated
differently? is there anyone from your college/school who went to the
afternoon session who accesses this discussion?
See how all the above doesn't quite seem to tie in with arrogant
arsehole wanker????? :-)) but perhaps theer is more than this than meets
the eye. So, post about topics, school, distance, teacher reaction,
whether you got refunds and exactly what he said you disagree with. he
has apparently visited 15+ schools so it would be interesting to compare
experiences and also to compare what you say, what others say and what
your teachers say.....hmmm...this could be quite interesting!
:-))
In article <7jtk67$sg0$2...@gxsn.com>,
"Bill Oddie" <hpa...@globalnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > Now this conference - how do you KNOW the money went to charity -
and
> > which one anyway?
>
business...@yahoo.com
>
> > Now this conference - how do you KNOW the money went to charity -
and
> > which one anyway?
>
How do you KNOW it went to any charity at all? (I wonder if the Inland
Revenue read this?)
> I don't know it was quite obscure, he gave us a fact sheet which I'll
admit
> I didn't read. Can't say I care, I don't know what bad things the
charity
> did to deserve his support.
Are you suggesting that charities should be picky about who they accept
money from?
:-))
Why did/does he support that particular charity anyway...and IS it a
charity?
:-))
>
> > You sound as if there were non-Business Studies students there? I
> > always thought it was just for Business Studies otr just for
> > Economics....were Geographers there too?
>
> I have no idea, I didn't really recognize them
Weren't you all from the same school? or was it one of those London one
man conference things?
>
> > How much were the total charges?
>
> I honestly can't, remember not that much.
>
> > Was it all day or just the morning?
>
> Just the morning, then another group in the afternoon.
Same topics...or couldn't you stand any more????
:-)))
> >
> > Did he slag off the teachers in front of you?
>
> No just the examiners, do you want details?
Nothing new there...but he IS an examiner!
> >
> > If he was such an a***hole why didn't you argue back in class? (Or
> > perhaps you did?)
>
> We didn't argue with him, there are quite "loud" people in my classes
and we
> were all just stunned by his arrogance and manner. The next BS class
though
> we did have a go at our teacher for making us pay to fuel that pricks
ego.
You should write to him and DEMAND a refund!
(send me 10%)
>
> > 30-40 people sounds like quite a big class......
>
> That was all the BS students, not a class..
>
> > You didn't say which school......not ashamed are you? <wink>
>
> No, but how relevent is this? Are you enquiring about how far he
travelled
> or something? <frown>
The greater the distance the more the ŁŁŁŁŁ
fionam...@my-deja.com
idot...@virgindot.net (Ian Ford) wrote:
> On Wed, 09 Jun 1999 22:28:31 GMT, fionam...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> >confereence held at...maybe he is a disgruntled teacher! were
outsiders
>
>
> There's no reason whatsoever for him to have to tell you his location
> if he chooses not to, whether he's a teacher, student or a
> telly-tubby. It'd look real weak to attack him on a point like that.
aha but location/school is relevant. CS is paid "expenses" based on
mileage. Thus the futher away the school is from where he starts, the
greater the cost and presumably the greater the profit. putting the
charity thing to one side for the moment, from the point of view of the
school if they are paying £300 for a one day conference - or £10 then
they have the right to expect something of...quality. Now taking the
assumoption that all one day courses are the same in content, style etc
etc this is price discrimination surely? also if - for example - your
school were thinking of hiring him then price (distance) would surely
come into it.
Thus location is important. I was not attacking him anyway (Bill)
merely having a discussion....:-))
> Fact is that he has an opinion. So do you (I assume you've heard CS
> speak?). I don't have an opinion on the quality of the lectures.
> It's interesting to hear others talk about them though.
>
> Ian
>
> --
> Ian and Cath Ford
> The view from Beccles.
>
> You know what to do: replace the dots but leave the .s if you want to
reply to us.
>
fionam...@my-deja.com
jo...@journalism.demon.co.uk wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Jun 1999 00:31:36 GMT, fionam...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> >Judging the hardness of an A level by essays alone, I agree would be
> >unfair. It is difficult in any subject to fully compare like with
> >like.
> >
> >
> >Also for some people an essay is easier than numerical work (and vice
> >versa).
> >
> >
> >Another factor is the degre of choice. For example 2 essays out of 8
> >is perhaps easier than one essay out of four......
> >
> >
> >
> >Then there's the title, the standard of marking....etc.
> >In geography for example all previous papers ask you to compare two
> >hazards whereas this year no comparison, just write about one.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Is that harder or easier...? I really don't know
> >
> >:-))
> >
> >which one anyway?
> >
>
> can spread to other people. There was an article about it in a.u.e.
>
> You tend to write in the same as Chris, with two of three nl's between
> each sentence. You also use put smileys on new lines and use '...' a
> great deal. (elipsis aren't they?)
>
> Oh and all the money from Chris' conferences go towards treating
> Dystonia sufferers IIRC.
>
IIRC?
and that is not true about all the money. He keeps expenses.
By the way on writing similarities, put my name as the subject and you
will see you are not the first to see a similarity...and then you will
read the explanation...and then you will see my particular
interest....and yes I do want to be a journalist and this would be a
useful scoop......
Look at the possibilities:
a. teachers hide pupils' opinions
b. exam papers revealed in advance by maverick teacher
c. money designated for charity doesn't actually get there
d. charity doesn't exist at all
e. teachers undermined by roving speaker
f. pupils in revolt (almost said "revolting") over arrogant guest
g. is this really value for money?
h. does he deserve an MBE or GLYS (get lost you sod)
i. hoist with his own self-publicity!
I'll put a smiley here just for the hell of it
:-))
> Josh
> --
> Josh Smith ---- Media & Technology Freelance Writer
> *NEW* Author of 'Internet Culture ies' ISBN 1-8407-8018-5
> "In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies,
> but the silence of our friends." ---- Martin Luther King Jnr.
>
>
Ian Ford
>aha but location/school is relevant. CS is paid "expenses" based on
>mileage. Thus the futher away the school is from where he starts, the
>greater the cost and presumably the greater the profit. putting the
>charity thing to one side for the moment, from the point of view of the
Sorry if I got the wrong impression about your posts to Bill for
starters.
Surely (and I'm not economist and don't understand the second thing
about Business Studies) expenses are not profit. They can't be can
they? (assuming that they are based on the actual costs expended - in
this case transport costs) They must only cover costs. That's why,
iirc, they aren't taxable.
If you're implying something else of course....... (hell, elipsis
things (what's the plural?))
Ian Ford
>nosey here - what topics was he supposed to cover? and are you AEB? You
>see the odd thing about all this is that according to the leaflets sent
>round and the website the written feedback from teachers is unanimous
>(spelling?) i.e. that the conferences are excellent...which therefore
>seems odd from how you post.
Well, I'd suggest that I could prove that all my lessons are excellent
as well. Depends on whom I quote though doesn't it? Given that the
leaflets and website are probably publicity I'd say that there's every
chance they are some of the more favourable quotes.
Not that this is a bad or terrible thing to do - it's publicity. It
should be that way.
Ian
Btw, you chaps want to quote a little less - there were at least 3
deja-news sigs at the bottom of that last post. Pet hate I'm afraid.
fionam...@my-deja.com
idot...@virgindot.net (Ian Ford) wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Jun 1999 18:09:11 GMT, fionam...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> >aha but location/school is relevant. CS is paid "expenses" based on
> >mileage. Thus the futher away the school is from where he starts, the
> >greater the cost and presumably the greater the profit. putting the
> >charity thing to one side for the moment, from the point of view of
the
>
> Sorry if I got the wrong impression about your posts to Bill for
> starters.
>
> Surely (and I'm not economist and don't understand the second thing
> about Business Studies) expenses are not profit. They can't be can
> they? (assuming that they are based on the actual costs expended - in
> this case transport costs) They must only cover costs. That's why,
> iirc, they aren't taxable.
>
> If you're implying something else of course....... (hell, elipsis
> things (what's the plural?))
>
Not implying, stating.
The expenses idea. If the expenses are 40p a mile and he drives 100
miles thus £40. Now petrol = approx. £10. Thus the rest is
"profit"...but not really as there is some depreciation but presumably
not £30. So, all legitimate but also there is some profit BUT on the
other hand he is NOT getting paid for the teaching (or whatever
euphemism Bill gives it..."insults"?) so the longer the journey the
greater the revenue for teaching (i.e. expenses). Equally if he taught
somewhere five miles from home then that is £4 petrol for......8 hours
teaching? plus invoicing?
Seems some schools have a good deal cos apparently at some schools they
get loads of freebie books too. So thus he gets maybe £50 "expenses" but
"loses" money that could be earned teaching elsewhere, petrol, time and
books that whatever anyone thinks of them, still cost something to
produce.
However, I am still interested in Bill's reply because it is odd to have
such a SEEMING divide between "teachers'" views and "pupils"
views...usually it is the other way round i.e. the teachers are the ones
he annoys!
Whatever the end product there is no doubt the charity gains...though
Bill would have us believe the charity (whose name he cannot remember)
loses...by association. That seems to be stretching things a bit....
I wonder when Chris will post?
> Ian
>
> --
> Ian and Cath Ford
> The view from Beccles.
>
> You know what to do: replace the dots but leave the .s if you want to
reply to us.
>
fionam...@my-deja.com
favourable quotes. To get balance if there are good ones then fine but
also if there are bad ones, of course they won't come from the OSL site
so if anyone reading this is a teacher/student then why not post them
here. I infer from Bill's post that he was unhappy - but his
teachers...were happy?
I know some schools get feedback forms sent them - did any of them post
critical comments? After all this - whatever the end location of the
money - is still a service that people/schools buy and we use forums to
review films, special offers etc, concerts etc etc so why not review
these conferences. Maybe schools will "buy" more or less depending on
what they see here?
This is - I think - and uncensored forum so don't hold back!Some schools
I would imagine spent say £100 for the "services". Did they get value
for money?
In article <37641e7...@news.virgin.net>,
idot...@virgindot.net (Ian Ford) wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Jun 1999 17:15:46 GMT, fionam...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> >nosey here - what topics was he supposed to cover? and are you AEB?
You
> >see the odd thing about all this is that according to the leaflets
sent
> >round and the website the written feedback from teachers is unanimous
> >(spelling?) i.e. that the conferences are excellent...which therefore
> >seems odd from how you post.
>
> Well, I'd suggest that I could prove that all my lessons are excellent
> as well. Depends on whom I quote though doesn't it? Given that the
> leaflets and website are probably publicity I'd say that there's every
> chance they are some of the more favourable quotes.
>
> Not that this is a bad or terrible thing to do - it's publicity. It
> should be that way.
>
> Ian
>
> Btw, you chaps want to quote a little less - there were at least 3
> deja-news sigs at the bottom of that last post. Pet hate I'm afraid.
>
> --
> Ian and Cath Ford
> The view from Beccles.
>
> You know what to do: replace the dots but leave the .s if you want to
reply to us.
>
Josh Smith
>
>Why did/does he support that particular charity anyway...
He suffers from Dystonia.
Josh Smith
>Look at the possibilities:
>
>a. teachers hide pupils' opinions
>b. exam papers revealed in advance by maverick teacher
>c. money designated for charity doesn't actually get there
>d. charity doesn't exist at all
>e. teachers undermined by roving speaker
>f. pupils in revolt (almost said "revolting") over arrogant guest
>g. is this really value for money?
>h. does he deserve an MBE or GLYS (get lost you sod)
>i. hoist with his own self-publicity!
>
As someone who *has* considered writing many stories about Chris' BS
escapades, and who has written one for the Daily Telegraph, I can
assure you that the subject at discussion here is not newsworthy -- in
fact it is incredibly bloody boring -- if it weren't it would be
libellous.
fionam...@my-deja.com
jo...@journalism.demon.co.uk wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Jun 1999 18:15:14 GMT, fionam...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> >Look at the possibilities:
> >
> >a. teachers hide pupils' opinions
I'll accept that may be boring - teachers have been ignoring pupils for
years!
> >b. exam papers revealed in advance by maverick teacher
exam leaks...boring? You must have finished your student days Josh.
> >c. money designated for charity doesn't actually get there
Too many charity scandals already......not that I've seen.
> >d. charity doesn't exist at all
You've disproved that so fine.
> >e. teachers undermined by roving speaker
Unusual but probably not newsworthy
> >f. pupils in revolt (almost said "revolting") over arrogant guest
Happens at toff schools....over teachers who are NOT arrogant.
> >g. is this really value for money?
not newsworthy
> >h. does he deserve an MBE or GLYS (get lost you sod)
currently in the news
> >i. hoist with his own self-publicity!
> >
So a journalist that is not interested in corruption, exam leaking and
rebellion? Very strange!
Oh in view of what you just wrote, ALLEGEDLY.......
>
> As someone who *has* considered writing many stories about Chris' BS
> escapades, and who has written one for the Daily Telegraph, I can
> assure you that the subject at discussion here is not newsworthy -- in
> fact it is incredibly bloody boring -- if it weren't it would be
> libellous.
>
> Josh
> --
> Josh Smith ---- Media & Technology Freelance Writer
> *NEW* Author of 'Internet Culture ies' ISBN 1-8407-8018-5
> "In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies,
> but the silence of our friends." ---- Martin Luther King Jnr.
>
>
Josh Smith
>
>> >b. exam papers revealed in advance by maverick teacher
>
>exam leaks...boring? You must have finished your student days Josh.
>
>
This I admit *might* be newsworthy, but not for a national newspaper
-- but for a regional rag it would be.
Just my personal opinion, I don't profess to being an expert on the
whims of education editors ;-)
Bill Oddie
<fionam...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:7k0ovs$416$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> This is becoming like an essay!
>
> :-)0
>
> keeps saying BS is easy (I assume).
>
> And yet.....
>
> You also post that it is easy.
I posted it was easier than History and Law, being the other subjects I
study, so are a lot of a-levels in comparison.
> and yet......
>
> If it is so easy how does it help him - who derives his income from
> teaching BS - to go around telling people it is easy?
Are you listening, one word AROGANCE, he thnks he is the nuts
If I was a teacher and I told you what I taught was really easy then you
would think less
> of me for teaching it over, say, two years. So thus I wouldn't tell you
> it was easy!
I have more respect for BS teachers than I will ever for CS, maybe cause
they don't speak to me like they have to prove how much they know.
>
> see how it doesn't tie in with the arrogance? also he is an examiner so
> saying something is easy further demeans his position......again,
> hardly a sign of arrogance! stupidity yes, but not arrogance.
This is getting boring do we needa definition of arrogance.
>
> Then you talk about the charity.....ummm if what he was doing was free
> i.e. he received no ŁŁŁŁs then that too does not quite fit how you
> describe him does it?
Just cause someone gives to charity doesn't automaticaly make them a good
person.
I am not defending him (or attacking apart from
> calling him stupid, just pointing out the illogicalities in your "essay"
> :-))
Seems your picking little holes in something, that was never meant to be a
naalytical look at a CS conference.
> If he gave out a factsheet to you then clearly he was at least trying to
> raise awareness of the charity - a good thing surely? (and dismally
> failing if you cannot remember the name!)
And this means what?
>
> Also if there were loud people in the group and there were...30-40 then
> surely that was enough of you to voice your disagreement? 40 - 1
> (however arrogant) is easily enough to squash someone! what did he
> actually say that you disagreed with? you say he said it was an easy A
> level; you said that yourself.
What are we going to do, start shouting "piss off, wanker" that kind of
stuff. Or maybe we should have beat him up! Not evryone is loud 6-7
people, by that are don't just mean obnoxious, I also mean the people who
always input in a class debate, were decidly quiet while Chris ranted and
questioned our knowledge/ability.
> Now, the name of your school...or at least location. From what I gather
> he claims petrol on a mileage basis....hence my question. Also - being
> nosey here - what topics was he supposed to cover? and are you AEB? You
> see the odd thing about all this is that according to the leaflets sent
> round and the website the written feedback from teachers is unanimous
> (spelling?) i.e. that the conferences are excellent...which therefore
> seems odd from how you post.
Jesus Christ I'm breaking the mould then. The conference is shit, that
morning could have been spent watching my other favourite wanker richard
Madeley or something. My teachers weren't present for most of the
confernce, so they didn't get are opinions till the next day. Half the
class hated it, the other half were non-plussed. Oh yeah I did get 2 books
actualy (for making some presentation or something), but they were by him I
think, probably just to fuel his massive ego.
>
> Surely if it was that crappy then your teacher(s) would also have
> complained....maybe they did and his college/himself (almost slipped
> into a capital "H" then :-)) are just hiding things.
I have no idea if he complained, it sounded if he was going to get him next
year as well.
>
> If your teachers did complain and he is hiding things then we need to
> expose him; if they did not complain, then why not?
>
How do I know!
> This forum is for discussion so all join in.....are there any other
> schools he has been too apart from whereveer Bill teaches (:-)))
> studies in?
What are students meant to like CS, because I don't like him you assume I'm
a teacher.
>
> If you don't know how much the conference cost then presumably it was
> free to you.
What?
Did you really gain nothing?and if you gained nothing at
> all then why didn't you walk/storm out? you say you were stunned....a
> whole morning is a long time to be stunned!
No nothing waste of time, well I learnt what can happen if you don't get
laid for long time you turn into CS.
>
> If he is paid petrol money then in some cases there is virtually no
> profit in it i.e. if your school is near but in other cases there must
> be quite a lot of ŁŁŁ involved (and a lot of travel time).n If you were
> just the morning class then the lesson/rant must have been 2 hrs max -
> not very long.
Where does he come from and then I'll till you if its far.
>
> Did your teachers havea go at him at all i.e. if the morning was SO BAD
> then presumably the after lunch people would have been treated
> differently? is there anyone from your college/school who went to the
> afternoon session who accesses this discussion?
Blah, Blah, why does this matter, anyone give a shit. The teacher didn't
get our opinions to the next day.
>
> See how all the above doesn't quite seem to tie in with arrogant
> arsehole wanker????? :-)) but perhaps theer is more than this than meets
> the eye.
Like what? he is that and more, hopefully I will never have the misfortune
to be in his company to find out.
So, post about topics, school, distance, teacher reaction,
> whether you got refunds and exactly what he said you disagree with. he
> has apparently visited 15+ schools so it would be interesting to compare
> experiences and also to compare what you say, what others say and what
> your teachers say.....hmmm...this could be quite interesting!
Be interesting to see if all the students suddenly gained BS marks thanks to
CS amazing teaching skills(Sarcasm, never works written does it)
Bill Oddie
>
> >
> > > Now this conference - how do you KNOW the money went to charity -
> and
> > > which one anyway?
> >
>
> Revenue read this?)
>
>
> > I don't know it was quite obscure, he gave us a fact sheet which I'll
> admit
> > I didn't read. Can't say I care, I don't know what bad things the
> charity
> > did to deserve his support.
>
>
> Are you suggesting that charities should be picky about who they accept
> money from?
>
> :-))
>
> Why did/does he support that particular charity anyway...and IS it a
> charity?
>
I HONESTLY DON'T CARE ABOUT THE CHARITY. HE CAN GIVE THE MONEY TO WHOEVER
HE LIKES, IT WOULD BE BETTER SPENT ON HIM JOINING A COURSE THAT TEACHES
PEOPLE HOW TO INTERACT AS HUMAN BEINGS. THEN, SOMETHING OTHER THAN SHIT
MIGHT COME OUT HIS MOUTH. MIGHT!
fionam...@my-deja.com
>
> What are we going to do, start shouting "piss off, wanker" that kind
of
> stuff.
well, if your teacher(s) weren't there....yes!
>
> > Now, the name of your school...or at least location. From what I
gather
> > he claims petrol on a mileage basis....hence my question.
He is from OXFORD school of learning......
Also -
being
> > nosey here - what topics was he supposed to cover?
all you posted were about his ranting etc but what was he SUPPOSED to
do....he usually wriets a case study or something from what others
say....
and are you AEB?
well?
fionam...@my-deja.com
set up a discussion on Sixth Form Conferences following the dialogue
with Bill Oddie (very secretive as to where he studies!)
I have broadened it to include all Sixth Form Conferences, the
Sivewright ones and others.
Thus people can post about any subject conferences - Geography,
Biology, Maths etc - and also any organisation running them. The
Sivewright ones are - I gather - non-profit making (which does not of
course mean they are free) but some conferences make ŁŁŁŁŁŁs
Maybe the TES watch these sites....no, on second thoughts, maybe not.
Remind us all Josh, what is the law on libel?
In article <376a4ddc....@news.demon.co.uk>,
Bill Oddie
<fionam...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:7k3u8i$4vc$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
>
>
> He is from OXFORD school of learning......
>
1 hour - 2 hours I'd say then.
> Also -
> being
> > > nosey here - what topics was he supposed to cover?
Can't remember, it was rubbish.
>
>
> all you posted were about his ranting etc but what was he SUPPOSED to
> do....he usually wriets a case study or something from what others
> say....
>
yeah, he did that was so inventive, I really felt I was involved then. NOT,
I'm not a five year old.
>
fionam...@my-deja.com
>
> >
> >
> > He is from OXFORD school of learning......
> >
> 1 hour - 2 hours I'd say then.
>
> > being
> > > > nosey here - what topics was he supposed to cover?
>
> >
> >
> > all you posted were about his ranting etc but what was he SUPPOSED
to
> > do....he usually wriets a case study or something from what others
> > say....
> >
> yeah, he did that was so inventive, I really felt I was involved then.
NOT,
> I'm not a five year old.
> >
>
It is interesting is it not that someone should post so much -
unprompted - abuse without stating anything factual other than he
thought the teacher a wanker/tosser/prick/rubbish/pathetic.
If for example he posted the school, the month, the date of the
conference, the subjects taught (or not taught) or anything remotely
factual so that particular conference could be identified and then
brought to the attention of OSL...but he doesn't.
As you will see from my other postings I too know CS. I know him as a
teacher as he is one of my teachers, although I see him only once a
week. This is all very clear from my other posts.
What I was trying to establish was exactly what the increasingly vague
and hostile Bill was actually upset about. In 1998 a girl wrote her
whole AEB coursework precisely on these conferences (and got a grade
A) and this year I did the same (and also got a projected grade A). I
have thus personally seen three of the conferences at first hand. I
was curious as to whether I had been to the one Bill attended as
opinions do differ (as can be seen from the Sarah post).
Despite all my careful prodding all that happened was more abuse to
the Sivewright persona which would have been far better to have been
directed to the college itself as they genuinely do take criticisms
seriously.
Bill has such a negative opinion of CS's teaching that seemed (and I
sue that loosely) to be in such contrast to the opinions voiced by
others (where one school even entered CS in the national competition
for Teacher of the Year) that I was attempting to isolate the
particular conference so I could nose around.
Bill completely refuses to give me the information and did not even
email me. So that is that. I will continue my project (due for
submission in April 2000) and who knows? maybe I will even bump into
another "Bill Oddie" that may disgruntedly be lurking out there.
Oh yes, finally, as far as I know CS has not seen any of this dialogue
as he has been busy abusing/boring the pants
off/insulting/hating/wasting his time/ shouting at new students (some of
whom have lessons until mid-night)
It's been interesting, but not as revealing as I had hoped. When my
project is finished I will of course state Bill in the credits....but
not his school unless I can identify it by sifting through the case
studies looking for his name.
Josh Smith
>
>Remind us all Josh, what is the law on libel?
>
Ask a lawyer. I wouldn't know -- I've never had a libel suit drawn
against me.
Ian Ford
Smith) wrote:
>On Mon, 14 Jun 1999 22:27:49 GMT, fionam...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
>>
>>Remind us all Josh, what is the law on libel?
>>
>
>Ask a lawyer. I wouldn't know -- I've never had a libel suit drawn
>against me.
>
And you call yourself a *journalist*!! Tsk, amateurs :-)
Ian
Josh Smith
wrote:
>
>And you call yourself a *journalist*!! Tsk, amateurs :-)
>
Hey -- only part-time. I don't want to be a destitute freelancers for
all of my life ;-)
If you really are interested in defamation, libel and slander then buy
a copy of the W&A Yearbook ISBN 0-7136-4931-3. And in the 2001
edition, you might even read my fabulous article on publishing on the
Internet ;-)
gerald_...@my-deja.com
jo...@journalism.demon.co.uk wrote:
> Hey -- only part-time. I don't want to be a destitute freelancers for
> all of my life ;-)
>
How does freelance journalism work? Can anyone send articles to a paper
for consideration, or do you have to be known to the journal/certified?
Regards,
Gerald Chappell
Josh Smith
>In article <37792434....@news.demon.co.uk>,
> jo...@journalism.demon.co.uk wrote:
>> Hey -- only part-time. I don't want to be a destitute freelancers for
>> all of my life ;-)
>>
>
>How does freelance journalism work? Can anyone send articles to a paper
>for consideration, or do you have to be known to the journal/certified?
Yes, it's not a funny sort of arcane art ;-) Of course, it can easily
become apparent if you don't have a great deal of experience, because
you submit stories which aren't newsworthy, or you keep submitting
opinion pieces (which newspaper only want if you're a name) or if you
don't have a realistic understanding of rates or author rights.
Buy a book on freelancing, and have a crack. Perseverance is essential
gerald_...@my-deja.com
jo...@journalism.demon.co.uk wrote:
> Yes, it's not a funny sort of arcane art ;-) Of course, it can easily
> become apparent if you don't have a great deal of experience, because
> you submit stories which aren't newsworthy, or you keep submitting
> opinion pieces (which newspaper only want if you're a name) or if you
> don't have a realistic understanding of rates or author rights.
It does sound interesting, is there any money involved in it (if so,
around how much), or is it more a hobby thing so you can say, "look,
there's my article" to your friends? What kind of articles would you
write though, I doubt it would be news stories (e.g. "Today in Kosovo")
and as you've precluded opinion pieces that leaves more long term
interest pieces. If that is the case, do you contact the paper first
and ask if they would be interested in such an article, or do you just
take your chances, write the thing and let them consider it when they
see it.
Josh Smith
Depends. To be honest I won't unless they pay me a reasonable fee,
even though I'm a far from prolific and experienced journo -- editors
judge you by how much you charge as much as they do by how much you
write.
There are three ways you can submit -- on speculation (on spec),
solicited or commissioned. The former, you send on the hope that the
editor will buy the piece straight out. The formerworks better for
quick production media, but means you spend writing stuff you can't
sell. Asking is an editor wants something before you sell it is a
really good idea. The latter, obtaining a commission should guarantee
that they will accept the piece you offer or give you a kill fee
(typically 50%). Listen for the word -- you probably won't hear it
much when you start out.
Reviews, tutorials, general interest pieces, interviews and basically
anything but hard news, op-ed (opinion-editorial) and graphic heavy
(unless you're very handy with a camera) pieces are open to freelance
writers.
Typical examples of rates...
Book -- ?1000 advance, 10% royalties. 50,000 words. 150 hours
Daily Telegraph -- ?170 per 1000 words. 500 words (?85). 2 hours
Sunday Express Supplement -- 1000 words @ ?140. 5 hours.
WIRED News -- $400 per 1000 words. 800 words. 3 hours
Micromart -- ?40 per 1200 words. 26 part series each taking 2 hours
Amazon.co.uk -- book reviews. ?50 per 200 words. (plus reading book)
-- kinda an hours work and a couple of days curling up with tomes.
It varies. Buy the Writers' & Artists' Yearbook. It will answer your
questions better than I can. It's important to realise that
freelancing rarely works out as great as the numbers seem to indicate
-- you waste alot of time on the phone, doing admin and generally
faffing about.
Anyway good luck. Give us a line if you get stuck.