UFO Messengers of Deception *
Noah's Dove
UFO’s: Aliens or Messengers of Deception?
Posted by lamarzulli on December 4, 2009
http://lamarzulli.wordpress.com/2009/12/04/ufos-aliens-or-messengers-of-deception/#comments
There are two schools of thought concerning the UFO phenomena. One,
which is embraced by the Exopolitic crowd, tells us that UFOs are
extraterrestrials that are here from other planets to help usher us
into the “new paradigm.” Some, like Rael, and those who follow him –
I’ve Blogged about the Raelians before – believe that E.T. created all
life on this planet. They were the ones who genetically manipulated
us, created the world’s religions and were worshipped as gods by our
ancestors. Now, they are back to help us through this critical time in
our evolution. The other explanation is that these entities are
interdimensional, but what does that mean? Jacque Vallee in his ground
breaking book, Messengers of Deception, states that these entities may
be here to deceive us! He stops short of exploring the Supernatural
guide-book, but he does lean toward the idea that whatever these
beings are they most likely are not being honest and forthright in
their dealings with us. I have been told by abductees, experiencers,
and researchers that the aliens ways are far above us. I often hear
the analogy of abductions and mutilations being compared to what
hunters do after they tag or kill game. In other words these beings
are so far ahead of us both technologically and as a civilization that
we can’t understand their ways. Here’s why I beg to differ with this.
We are told by numerous abdcutees that after prolonged contact they
come to realize that these beings lie habitually. Lynne Dickie, who
was interviewed for The Alien Interview’s book, substantiates this, as
well as Corina Sables who was abducted since she was a small child and
also came on the record. Now lying is a trait that takes a deliberate
act by the perpetrator. In other words the one who is lying is seeking
to manipulate, obfuscate, hide, conceal or distort the truth. We
consider this abhorrent and I would put forward that supposed advanced
beings who engage in this behaviour are indeed messengers of deception
and cannot be trusted. While on Coast to Coast, George and I discussed
this idea of deception and I used the case of Blossom Goodchild who
told the world that the Federation of Light was going to reveal a
large UFO for 72 hours on October 14th 2008. It didn’t happen and
Blossom Goodchild was left hanging in the wind. Why didn’t the
Federation show? I interviewed Goodchiild for my up and coming book
on 2012 and she insisted that she asked them – the Federation of Light
– over and over again if t his was really going to happen. She stated
that they informed her and reassured her that it would. Yet, when
October 14th came, it was a no-show. We are told in the Guide-book to
the Supernatural that these beings are here to lie, kill and destroy.
We are also informed that the ruler of these beings is the father of
lies. I would point out that these statements are grave warnings of
what these beings are capable of. Remember when Lawrence Gray came
face to face with MOTHMAN he stated that the being was, “wickedness.”
How’s that for a description? Recently I have been discussing the
cattle mutilation that took place in southern Colorado. In the words
of MUFON investigator Chuck Dukowski, who will be my guest next week
on Acceleration Radio, the phenomena as gone destructive. What he
means by this is that the mutilations have become much more graphic if
such a thing is possible. Almost the entire animal has been cored or
stripped, with surgical precision, of its flesh and organs. We are
experiencing what I would call the beginning of the Great Deception.
These beings are nefarious and cannot be trusted…. lying is their way
and capturing the souls of men is their end game!
For more documentation:
Part 1 of 8 "UFO’s The Hidden Truth" – ufo video documentary which
provide evidence that ufo entities are messengers of deception.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_9jSmjt6k4&feature=PlayList&p=5131CB8ACC61D5BD&index=0&playnext=1
If you need help for intrusive alien experiences and abductions please
check the following website: http://www.aaccoa.org/
and watch the following video presentation:
"UnHoly Communion: The Spiritual Nature Of Abduction Reports" -
presented by Florida Mufon Director Joe Jordon
Luke Nichols
"Noah's Dove" <noah...@lightspeed.ca> wrote in message
news:0f611b44-ec7d-4ec4...@y10g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
UFO�s: Aliens or Messengers of Deception?\\
They are the fallen angels spoke of in Revelation 12.
Andrew W
> "Noah's Dove" <noah...@lightspeed.ca> wrote in message
> news:0f611b44-ec7d-4ec4...@y10g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
>
> UFO's: Aliens or Messengers of Deception?\\
>
> They are the fallen angels spoke of in Revelation 12.
>
What exactly are fallen angels?
--
The skeptic/debunker's motto - If I haven't seen it and its even
slightly difficult for me to believe then there's no way it can
possibly exist and I must stomp on anyone who says otherwise because
they're just crazy or frauds.
HVAC
"Andrew W" <removethi...@optushome.com.au> wrote in message
news:4b255417$0$1785$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
> Luke Nichols wrote:
>> "Noah's Dove" <noah...@lightspeed.ca> wrote in message
>> news:0f611b44-ec7d-4ec4...@y10g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> UFO's: Aliens or Messengers of Deception?\\
>>
>> They are the fallen angels spoke of in Revelation 12.
>>
>
> What exactly are fallen angels?
Why do you ask?
Don't you BELIEVE?
Are you.... A debunker? A skeptic?
Noah's Dove
VISITORS IN THE NIGHT DEPARTMENT http://www.mail-archive.com/myth...@yahoogroups.com/msg00449.html
Seducers from Inner Space
by Randy Fitzgerald
(from Conspiracy Journal)
Randall, what’s wrong?!” Edward blurted, fumbling for a lightswitch
on
the nightstand. Turning on the lamp, he saw me across the room
sitting
bolt upright, staring at something.
My conscious recollection of this episode begins with a woman’s face,
a
disembodied face, hovering in the darkness at the foot of my bed. She
had brownish-blonde hair, wide prominent facial features, a mole or
dimple on the right side of her chin, and a smile spread almost the
entire width of her face. I was sitting up in bed transfixed by the
image of her, not knowing if I was asleep or awake, when I heard a
voice
loudly shout “Hey”, and heard Edward call my name. Instantly, as the
lamp came on, the face disappeared in the flood of light.
So began my initiation into an ancient mystery. This first in a
series
of unsettling experiences occurred in Austin, Texas, where fellow
screenwriter Edward Kovach and I had flown for a business meeting
with
another filmmaker. Our second night in the city, at about 3 a.m. on
May
3, 1991, that voice in our motel room pierced the quiet with a shout
of
“Hey”, awakening both of us.
As we tried to make sense of what happened Edward expressed an
opinion
that the high-pitched voice was female. Though I have a deep voice
and
had no memory of having spoken, I felt it could have been me reacting
to
seeing the face. On a hunch, Edward suggested there might be a
connection to his lunch companion later that day, a woman he had
never
met, an archaeology professor at the University of Texas. Edward had
encountered her research partner in Belize the previous year while
visiting Mayan ruins.
If the face I had seen that morning matched or resembled Barbara, the
archaeologist, Edward asked me to signal him over lunch by saying to
her, “haven’t we met somewhere before?”.
When I caught up with Edward and Barbara at a Mexican restaurant they
were deeply immersed in conversation about her unusual experiences
exploring Mayan caves in Central America. I approached their table
just
as she was describing eerie blue lights the size of basketballs that
she
had seen floating inside a cave once used as a burial and ceremonial
center. She believed these lights possessed intelligence and could
have
been spirit faces.
As soon as I sat down her uncanny resemblance to my own nocturnal
visitor became apparent. It took a few minutes of absorbing this
shock
before I could address her with “Haven’t we met somewhere before?”.
Edward stiffened in his chair. Barbara spread a wide, familiar smile.
“Not that I’m aware”, she replied.
Afterwards, Edward and I speculated whether it was conceivable that
Barbara had been remote viewing us that morning. Or perhaps the image
had been part of a lucid dream, even a precognitive dream, its
meaning
enhanced by the coincidence of her resemblance to the image.
The Visitations Intensify
Edward flew back to Los Angeles and I returned to my home in suburban
Washington, D.C. Ten days later, once again around 3 a.m., I awakened
to
see another unfamiliar woman’s face hovering at the end of my bed,
right
at the level that someone about five-feet-seven-inches in height
would
be if they were standing over me.
This face appeared angular, with alabaster skin, burgundy-colored
hair,
and bright green eyes. Her features were out of focus, indistinct as
the
previous image had been, which suddenly made sense to me since I am
nearsighted. The observation that I was viewing the image as I would
normally with uncorrected vision registered in me simultaneous with
the
shock of realizing that I was wide awake.
Keeping my attention riveted on the face, I slowly snaked a hand over
and into the bedside table drawer where I kept a pair of glasses.
Unfolding the spectacles, I slipped them on and instantly the face’s
features came into focus, enabling me to see for the first time how
her
thin lips were curled into a slight smile.
A surge of adrenaline-fueled thoughts zapped me. Can this be a
hallucination? Is this for real? Reflexively I reached over and
turned
on a lamp. Just as in the previous incident, this light made the face
immediately vanish. I jumped out of bed like a man possessed and
searched every square foot of my apartment. There was no one there,
nor
any evidence of anyone having gained entry.
The next day I phoned Edward and his wife, Lisa, and described this
latest encounter. They wondered whether Barbara or one of her friends
had been out mentally scanning again. I speculated these were
projections from my own unconscious, either revealing future
acquaintances, or continuing a lucid dreaming cycle which, while I
had
never experienced anything remotely similar before, might be
symptomatic
of dramatic forces of change in my psyche. Somehow, none of these
explanations felt entirely adequate. My internal skeptic kept working
overtime in its usual dismissive fashion, never suspecting that the
strangest experience was yet to come.
At the bewitching hour of 3 a.m. on May 25, I felt myself jerked
awake
by the awareness of heat and intense pressure pinning me to the bed.
I
was on my back and, except for my eyes, no part of my body would
respond
to any attempt at movement. No matter how hard I tried to squeeze my
fingers into a fist or curl my toes, I felt securely and inexplicably
paralyzed. My next sensation was of a presence, invisible to me in
the
darkness, moving up and down atop the nakedness of my groin.
Thoughts began colliding rapidly in my mind, a carnage fired by
competing emotions--curiosity, fear, anger, disbelief--all merging
into
a confused swirl. Why can’t I move? What is this presence engulfing
me?
It has a feminine feel to it, gripping me deep within a woman’s sex.
This is coercion! This is rape! Suddenly one thought alone possessed
me
with a grim certainty. If I climax, if I allow myself to release
inside
this presence, whatever it is, some part of me, perhaps my soul, will
be
lost.
With ferocious effort I attempted to struggle free, concentrating on
moving my arms and legs. The more I struggled the tighter the
pressure
and paralysis seemed to restrain me. Finally a voice at the core of
my
being spoke up internally, a quiet whisper, advising me to relax my
body
and resist mentally. I willed myself the refusal to submit to this
presence, this entity, this experience, and I began relaxing my body,
first my feet and hands, then each leg and arm, feeling the numbness
retreat. In a flash I was free and able to move.
My entire body and the sheet beneath me was soaked in perspiration. I
sat up and turned on the lamp. As I expected there was nothing out of
the ordinary to be seen. Yet the room felt abnormally hot, absolutely
stifling, and this awareness prompted my discovery of the most
provocative evidence of all. Above my bed was a thermostat set at a
customary 70 degrees, but the gauge indicated that the temperature in
the room had shot up to 98 degrees! I dashed into the other two rooms
of
my apartment and checked the thermostats--each still set at 70
degrees,
which also corresponded to the temperature in those rooms. Somehow
the
temperature in my bedroom alone had skyrocketed 28 degrees above the
thermostat setting.
Even though it was after midnight Los Angeles time, I phoned Edward
and
Lisa and described what I had just seen and felt. I tried to calm
myself
by speculating out loud to them. Could this temperature anomaly in my
bedroom, perhaps caused by a faulty thermostat, have stimulated or
intensified the sleep paralysis and vivid imagery of my lucid dream
state? Were these three apparitional experiences, so closely bunched
together in time, and unlike anything I had ever encountered in my
life,
simply a confluence of bizarre coincidences?
Edward and Lisa countered that the anomaly of the heat differential
could have been a byproduct of something extraordinary-- a
spontaneous
generation of heat from my own body, or even evidence of a visitation
by
aliens. They voiced an opinion that the impact had catapulted me into
a
rationalist’s denial. At that moment, I felt too stunned to offer any
rebuttal.
A Search For Answers
During the ensuing months my readings introduced experiences similar
to
my own, categorized as Incubus and Succubus visitations. Incubi and
Succubi are the Latin words for alleged demons which, throughout
history
and across many cultures, have been reported as engaging in sexual
relations with men and women in their sleep. These critters reached
the
peak of European public exposure in 1484, when the Catholic Pope
Innocent VIII issued an edict chastising followers of the faith of
both
sexes for having been tempted into “intercourse with evil angels,
incubi
and succubi”. With this declaration the Pope launched an Inquisition
of
torture and executions to purge Europe of witches--those “wicked
women
perverted by Satan”-- who supposedly sent the incubi and succubi on
their salacious missions.
Other accounts come from Islamic theologians who described these
occupants of the “realm of the unseen” as jinns, which in Middle
Eastern
mythology are a species of demon. As described in the Koran, jinns
can
shapeshift in order to kidnap humans and fornicate with them. During
the
19th century, leaders of the Spiritualist movement in Britain coined
the
term “elementals” as a label for denizens of the supernatural or
imaginal realms, a form of spiritual parasite that was said to prey
upon
human beings.
To my rational mind the jinns, the elementals, the incubi and the
succubi, even Celtic descriptions of faeries and their rituals and
behaviors, sounded suspiciously like the alien abduction reports of
our
present day. This linkage initially came to my attention in Jacques
Vallee’s wonderful book, _Passport To Magonia_, first published three
decades ago.
Many researchers have reached a similar conclusion. Are “demons” and
“space aliens” one and the same?” ask British researchers Peter Hough,
a
journalist, and Moyshe Kalman, a psychotherapist, who in 1997
authored
_The Truth About Alien Abductions_. “Comparisons with folklore
indicate
that they are. Further, the literature clearly illustrates how the
root
phenomenon adapts to social and individual experiences. This is often
referred to as ‘cultural tracking’.”
Faeries and the Inccubi, just as our modern alien abductors, are said
to
possess the power to paralyze a person with a mere touch or even a
glance. All of them, faeries, incubi, and aliens are described as
seeking sexual relations with humans to improve their own, or our
own,
species.
Visionary images do seem to conform to our cultural expectations.
Swiss
psychologist Carl Jung believed that at the deepest levels of our
psyche, where we each tap into the collective unconscious of
humanity,
we are awash in a sea of symbolic images--archetypes--common to our
evolutionary experiences as a species. Our individual egos project
onto
these symbols our repressed, shadow parts of self.
In an extraordinary treatment of apparitions, _Daimonic Reality:
Understanding Otherworld Encounters_, Patrick Harpur in 1995 drew
numerous striking correlations between the folklore reports of
incubi,
succubi, and faeries, and the gray aliens supposedly involved in
abducting humans. Taken together, he gives all apparitional figures
the
Greek name of daimons. “The truth behind apparitions is, I fear, less
like a problem to be solved than an initiation into a mystery,” he
writes. Apparitions such as inccubi and succubi could be “images of
the
soul projected by the soul itself”, and in a concession to Jungian
psychological theories, he speculates that “it is a psychological law--
a
law of the soul--that whatever is repressed returns in a different
form”.
More evidence for the common origin of all these apparitional
phenomena
springs from a finding that the ancient remedies for warding off
Incubus/Succubus attacks, recommended by the Catholic Church, have
also
proven effective when utilized by abductees wanting to stop nocturnal
alien visitations and abductions. Longtime UFO researcher Ann Druffel
revealed this connection in her 1998 book, _How To Defend Yourself
Against Alien Abduction_. She listed nine techniques people have used
to
successfully “ward off alien entities and even break off abductions
in
progress”. These include a recited appeal to spiritual personages
such
as Jesus, summoning a righteous anger, and wearing objects made of
iron.
It seems the techniques that work most effectively are those the
person
most believes will work. “Our own faeries and jinns are merely an old
human problem, shape-shifted and wearing space garb to fool us”,
Druffel
concluded.
Bizarre Sleep Disorders
British psychologist Stan Gooch wrote a book, _Creatures From Inner
Space_, in which he described his own sexual encounters with succubi,
experiences that he conceded were “actually more satisfying than that
with a real woman, because in the paranormal encounter archetypal
elements are both involved and invoked”, Gooch decided after much
consideration that succubi and other entities are created and
projected
by the human mind.
A similar account and conclusion comes from Dr. Ronald Siegel,
associate
research professor at the UCLA School of Medicine’s Department of
Psychiatry. In his 1992 book, _Fire In The Brain_, Siegel recounted
waking at 4:20 a.m. when he heard footsteps and heavy breathing
followed
by a weight on his chest. He was paralyzed. The more he struggled the
less he could move. He felt a cold hand grasp his arm. “Then part of
the
mattress next to me caved in. Someone climbed onto the bed! The
presence
shifted its weight and straddled my body...There was a texture of
sexual
intoxication and terror in the room.”
After this horrific “Old Hag” experience, as Siegel called it, he was
able to classify it as sleep paralysis combined with hypnopompic
hallucinations. (Hypnogogic is the borderline state when falling
alseep;
hypnopompic is the transition state when waking up.) Siegel noted how
his encounter resembled, in a striking variety of details, author
Whitley Strieber’s alien abduction report in his 1987 book,
_Communion_.
According to prevailing physical theories, we normally experience a
disconnect between body and brain while we are asleep. This
disconnect
is a safety mechanism to prevent us from physically acting out our
dreams. When this safety mechanism malfunctions, bizarre effects can
happen.
Take the case of Mrs. Jeane Dammen of Dodgeville, Wisconsin. Since
the
age of seven she had been a sleepwalker, and as an adult began
driving
automobiles while in a dreamstate, sometimes driving up to 50 miles at
a
time. She would awaken at department stores and friend’s homes with
no
memory of having traveled there. She never had an auto accident
during
several decades of sleep driving.
Sleep researchers contend that more than half of all humans have a
hypnogogic or hypnopompic sleep hallucination, or experience sleep
paralysis, at least once in their life. ”Ordinary, perfectly sane and
rational people have these hallucinatory experiences”, says Robert A.
Baker, a professor of psychology at the University of Kentucky, and
an
expert on the phenomenon.
Numerous clinical studies of sleep paralysis have found up to 75
percent
of persons surveyed were on their backs when the experience occurred.
I
found this statistic of particular interest to my own case since I
was
also on my back during each of my three encounters, though I normally
always sleep on my side.
One of the more intriguing cases I found of a sleep disorder that
could
have been mistaken for succubi visitations or even alien abductions
involved a retired engineer in Connecticut. He inexplicably began
experiencing, at age 64, both nocturnal and daylight encounters with
an
extraordinary range of images, especially female human faces and
gray-faced entities that resembled classic descriptions of alien
abductors. (To respect confidentiality between this man and his
psychologist, I will refer to him as Rob Greeley.)
Over several years, into the early 1990s, Greeley kept a meticulous
daily log of these visitations, a copy of which I have acquired. Here
are a few representative descriptions taken at random from 1988 and
1989
entries. At 4 a.m. on May 2, he woke up “looking at a glowing
alabaster
sculpture of a cherubic-like child’s head” that soon morphed into “a
gray faced image” of an alien being. He goes on to describe instances
of
feeling “a vibratory paralysis coming over me”, of seeing “smiling
women’s faces”, and of “being shaken awake” and feeling “a tremendous
blast of heat” and hearing “gibberish being spoken”.
“I am not alarmed or frightened by any of this”, Greeley told his
psychologist, “because I know I am normal and feel well in every
way”.
Determined to document his experiences within a framework of
objective
reality, Greeley set up a video camera that he turned on during these
manifestations of vivid imagery. Nothing out of the ordinary ever
appeared on this videotape. The phenomena seemed to be generated and
projected solely from his unconscious mind.
We might otherwise dismiss Greeley’s experiences as merely odd
examples
of anomalistic psychology, his brain playing perceptual tricks, a
neurological malfunctioning, if it weren’t for some other provocative
evidence of unexpected effects in his outward life.
For one thing, Greeley’s experiences began to infect, much like a
contagion, other people close to him. His 34-year-old son, Scott, and
Scott’s girlfriend, both saw similar images and entities on some of
the
nights they stayed at Greeley’s house. These visitations periodically
continued even when Scott and his intimate partner were away in other
cities. (In the diagnostic manual of the American Psychiatric
Association, this type of contagion is explained away as a “shared
psychotic disorder”.)
Equally puzzling, Greeley and the people around him began to notice
strange marks and wounds appearing on his body in the aftermath of
the
more intense visitations. For the first time in his life he had
spontaneous nose bleeds while reading a book or eating a meal. He
would
awaken to find one eye severely bloodshot, or a finger swollen as if
smashed by a sledgehammer, yet he retained no memory of having been
injured.
Try as I might, my intuition does not facilitate me fully embracing a
traditional psychiatric perspective explaining away all of these
phenomena, though I do feel these images and experiences are
primarily
projections of the unconscious human mind. As evidenced by research
into
stigmata, our beliefs and unconscious desires can even produce wounds
and other physical effects. But the triggers for these events, a
partial
reason why some of us are more susceptible, may exist independent of
our
brains.
An Electromagnetic Theory
An idea deserving continued investigation holds that electromagnetic
fields, both natural and human-made, interact with some human brains
to
produce hallucinations, even dramatically staged event scenarios such
as
alien abductions. The pioneer researcher in this realm, Dr. Michael
Persinger of Laurentian University in Ontario, Canada, has been
stimulating the temporal lobes of test subjects for more than two
decades using pulsed electromagnetic fields, releasing an exotic
range
of archetypal imagery from human consciousness. (Temporal lobes are
found in the brain areas above and around the ears.)
Persinger’s experimental subjects have reported visual phenomena from
floating human faces and ghostlike apparitions and angels, to
experiences resembling aspects of alien abduction reports. For a 1996
television program, Jay Ingram, a host of the Canadian Discovery
Channel, had Persinger bathe his temporal lobes in a pulsed
electromagnetic field, resulting in what Ingram described as “faces
floating in front of me...all female, on a dark background”. He
experienced moments of “rapidly changing dream-like images, but the
faces impressed me the most”.
Even more far-reaching electromagnetic theories have been advanced by
British authors Paul Devereux and Albert Budden. Devereux’s 1989
book,
_Earth Lights Revelation_, made a compelling case that some UFOs are
a
product of a mixture of electrical, geological and gaseous processes
and
conditions, and any nearby human consciousness can be impacted.
Budden’s
1998 book, _Electric UFOs_, expanded that theory to link paranormal
experiences, hauntings, and alien abductions as hallucinatory side
effects of electromagnetic sensitivity.
Beyond the impressive imagery, however, Persinger’s experiments
apparently have failed to reproduce the range of reported external
effects that seem dependent on the nature, intensity, and projective
power of a person’s conscious or unconscious fears or belief system.
After sifting through the theories and apparitional evidence, and
returning like a devoted ego to the memory of my own succubi
experiences, I remain baffled by one nagging, anomalous detail.
How did the temperature in my room inexplicably shoot up 28 degrees
above the thermostat setting during my last of the three encounters?
Beyond this personal mystery, larger issues loom. Can human
consciousness alter our consensus material reality? Are
electromagnetic
facilitations of paranormal experience, in the wild, so to speak,
meaningful coincidences? Can more elaborate theories,
interdimensional
portals, for example, help to explain the broad range of paranormal
phenomena?
Randy Fitzgerald's new book _The Hundred Year Lie_ is being released
in
June.
Source: Phenomena
http://phenomena.cinescape.com/0/editorial.asp?aff_id=0&this_cat=Altered+States
<http://phenomena.cinescape.com/0/editorial.asp?
aff_id=0&this_cat=Altered+States>
&action=page&obj_id=4811&type_id=7&cat_id=118&sub_id=0
If you need help for intrusive alien experiences and abductions please
check the following website: http://www.aaccoa.org/
and watch the following video presentation:
"UnHoly Communion: The Spiritual Nature Of Abduction Reports"
On Dec 13, 12:52 pm, "Andrew W" <removethis_ajwer...@optushome.com.au>
wrote:
> Luke Nichols wrote:
> > "Noah's Dove" <noahdo...@lightspeed.ca> wrote in message
Andrew W
> "Andrew W" <removethi...@optushome.com.au> wrote in message
> news:4b255417$0$1785$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
>> Luke Nichols wrote:
>>> "Noah's Dove" <noah...@lightspeed.ca> wrote in message
>>> news:0f611b44-ec7d-4ec4...@y10g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>> UFO's: Aliens or Messengers of Deception?\\
>>>
>>> They are the fallen angels spoke of in Revelation 12.
>>>
>>
>> What exactly are fallen angels?
>
>
> Why do you ask?
>
To see what/why the poster believes, and reveal any flaws in the belief.
>
> Don't you BELIEVE?
>
Not in fallen angels.
And I don't believe anything before I have researched it from many sources.
And then any belief is only provisional.
>
> Are you.... A debunker? A skeptic?
>
Researcher and information gatherer/studier.
HVAC
>>
>> Don't you BELIEVE?
>>
>
> Not in fallen angels.
> And I don't believe anything before I have researched it from many
> sources.
> And then any belief is only provisional.
So you're saying that you don't just believe any
bullshit, made up stories unless you have proof?
>> Are you.... A debunker? A skeptic?
>>
>
> Researcher and information gatherer/studier.
Good... Me too!
I have EXACTLY as much 'proof' regarding fallen
angels as you do about ufo's.
And MY proof comes from none other than fucking GOD!
Now kneel motherfucker.
Andrew W
> "Andrew W" <removethi...@optushome.com.au> wrote in message
> news:4b26b686$0$3074$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
>>>
>>> Don't you BELIEVE?
>>>
>>
>> Not in fallen angels.
>> And I don't believe anything before I have researched it from many
>> sources.
>> And then any belief is only provisional.
>
>
> So you're saying that you don't just believe any
> bullshit, made up stories unless you have proof?
>
Of course not.
But the problem is that absolute proof is sometimes difficult to find for
certain things in this world.
That's when you have to just check out all the sources to see whether they
are legit and sincere or not.
>
>
>>> Are you.... A debunker? A skeptic?
>>>
>>
>> Researcher and information gatherer/studier.
>
>
> Good... Me too!
>
> I have EXACTLY as much 'proof' regarding fallen
> angels as you do about ufo's.
>
> And MY proof comes from none other than fucking GOD!
>
Prove that your proof comes from God.
>
> Now kneel motherfucker.
>
I don't do kneeling.
Sorry.
HVAC
>>
>>>> Are you.... A debunker? A skeptic?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Researcher and information gatherer/studier.
>>
>>
>> Good... Me too!
>>
>> I have EXACTLY as much 'proof' regarding fallen
>> angels as you do about ufo's.
>>
>> And MY proof comes from none other than fucking GOD!
>>
>
> Prove that your proof comes from God.
Just read the bible! Are you stupid?
Andrew W
news:hgafjs$nd1$1...@hvac.motzarella.org...
The bible contains a lot of crap.
I bet you didn't expect me to say that.
HVAC
>>>
>>> Prove that your proof comes from God.
>>
>>
>> Just read the bible! Are you stupid?
>
> The bible contains a lot of crap.
> I bet you didn't expect me to say that.
The bible has EXACTLY as much 'crap' as does
your 'proof' of ufos.
I bet you didn't expect me to say that.
PS- What about ghosts? Do you believe in ghosts, Andy?
Grizzly
"God" ran the printing presses too. He he..
Andrew W
> "Andrew W" <removethi...@optushome.com.au> wrote in message
> news:4b28cc7e$0$6096$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
>>>>
>>>> Prove that your proof comes from God.
>>>
>>>
>>> Just read the bible! Are you stupid?
>>
>> The bible contains a lot of crap.
>> I bet you didn't expect me to say that.
>
>
> The bible has EXACTLY as much 'crap' as does
> your 'proof' of ufos.
>
> I bet you didn't expect me to say that.
>
I kinda did.
The bible contains ancient passed along esoteric and edited accounts and
traditions.
Its a different kettle of fish.
Seems you are only interested in absolute proof. You can't tolerate just
having collective evidence to gain info from.
That's a sign of black and white and lower mind thinking.
>
>
> PS- What about ghosts? Do you believe in ghosts, Andy?
>
Not 100%.
I go purely on the sheer large number of sincere reports and testimonies
around the world.
My belief is always provisional.
Interesting information is more important than mere belief. I happen to find
the paranormal etc. fascinating. And its fast gaining interest in the world.
HVAC
>>
>> The bible has EXACTLY as much 'crap' as does
>> your 'proof' of ufos.
>>
>> I bet you didn't expect me to say that.
>>
>
> I kinda did.
> The bible contains ancient passed along esoteric and edited accounts and
> traditions.
> Its a different kettle of fish.
> Seems you are only interested in absolute proof.
When I look at an obvious CGI fake ufo u-tube video, I
don't consider THAT to proof of anything but a fraud.
YOU see it as proof that's not absolute.
So WHO has lower mind thinking?
>You can't tolerate just having collective evidence to gain info from.
> That's a sign of black and white and lower mind thinking.
Right..... See above.
>> PS- What about ghosts? Do you believe in ghosts, Andy?
>>
>
> Not 100%.
That's a yes.
So you believe in heaven and hell then, correct?
> I go purely on the sheer large number of sincere reports and testimonies
> around the world.
> My belief is always provisional.
> Interesting information is more important than mere belief. I happen to
> find the paranormal etc. fascinating. And its fast gaining interest in the
> world.
To me, all that proves is that people are stupid.
A B
>>> PS- What about ghosts? Do you believe in ghosts, Andy?
>> Not 100%.
> That's a yes.
Think about that for a minute, HVAC. So that means that if, for instance,
someone thinks the capital of Australia is Sydney (yes, I know it isn't) but
she's not sure, that means she thinks it's Canberra? Boy, that's an easy
way of learning geography. All you have to do is think the right answer
MIGHT be true, and you think it IS!
Yours fussily,
A. B.
Andrew W
>
> "Andrew W" <removethi...@optushome.com.au> wrote in message
> news:4b296c32$0$1782$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
>>>
>>> The bible has EXACTLY as much 'crap' as does
>>> your 'proof' of ufos.
>>>
>>> I bet you didn't expect me to say that.
>>>
>>
>> I kinda did.
>> The bible contains ancient passed along esoteric and edited accounts and
>> traditions.
>> Its a different kettle of fish.
>> Seems you are only interested in absolute proof.
>
>
> When I look at an obvious CGI fake ufo u-tube video, I
> don't consider THAT to proof of anything but a fraud.
>
> YOU see it as proof that's not absolute.
>
> So WHO has lower mind thinking?
>
I don't consider the vast majority to be any kind of proof.
Some are interesting, others highly questionable.
Proof is the final thing I consider, not the first. However there are a
select few that have defied explanation by experts and come from sincere
sources that do show that there is something beyond the ordinary.
This subject is just very interesting because its getting so prevalent
around the world at this time.
Do you believe that all close-up ufo videos on youtube are CGI etc. and that
all ufo film/videos made elsewhere are fake or misidentified?
>
>
>>> PS- What about ghosts? Do you believe in ghosts, Andy?
>>>
>>
>> Not 100%.
>
>
> That's a yes.
>
There are too many people having weird and unexplainable experiences,
including people I know, to dismiss it.
Its not a wise person who just tosses everything out just because its
difficult to believe.
Mankind has learned a lot from things that were at some time hard to
believe, and still are.
>
> So you believe in heaven and hell then, correct?
>
Heaven and hell are states of mind.
I and others are already experiencing heaven, and many other people in this
world are experiencing hell.
>
>
>> I go purely on the sheer large number of sincere reports and testimonies
>> around the world.
>> My belief is always provisional.
>> Interesting information is more important than mere belief. I happen to
>> find the paranormal etc. fascinating. And its fast gaining interest in
>> the world.
>
>
> To me, all that proves is that people are stupid.
That's your own extreme cynical and materialistic world view.
Not everyone has your world view, and you shouldn't imagine that your's is
the best one.
HVAC
>>> Seems you are only interested in absolute proof.
>>
>>
>> When I look at an obvious CGI fake ufo u-tube video, I
>> don't consider THAT to proof of anything but a fraud.
>>
>> YOU see it as proof that's not absolute.
>>
>> So WHO has lower mind thinking?
>>
>
> I don't consider the vast majority to be any kind of proof.
> Some are interesting, others highly questionable.
> Proof is the final thing I consider, not the first. However there are a
> select few that have defied explanation by experts and come from sincere
> sources that do show that there is something beyond the ordinary.
> This subject is just very interesting because its getting so prevalent
> around the world at this time.
So the fact that we're going through ANOTHER cycle
of 'Kooks Gone Wild', just as we have done many times
in the past, is a reason to believe?
In the twenties, Harry Houdini outted the frauds that were
around at that time. Now, almost a hundred years later, our
ability to fake this bullshit has improved. But the twenties
didn't have something we have now...... Me.
I remain as that voice in the night that shouts. "FAKE".
I am the pin to YOUR spectral party balloon.
> Do you believe that all close-up ufo videos on youtube are CGI etc. and
> that all ufo film/videos made elsewhere are fake or misidentified?
Of COURSE they are you fucking moron!
We're talking about GHOSTS here.
>>>> PS- What about ghosts? Do you believe in ghosts, Andy?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Not 100%.
>>
>>
>> That's a yes.
>>
>
> There are too many people having weird and unexplainable experiences,
> including people I know, to dismiss it.
Hahahahahaha! You should be forced to wear a sign in public
that reads, "I BELIEVE IN GHOSTS".
Then EVERYONE could make fun of you.
> Its not a wise person who just tosses everything out just because its
> difficult to believe.
> Mankind has learned a lot from things that were at some time hard to
> believe, and still are.
And we've advanced by putting away superstition and fear and embracing
reality instead. YOU are proof that we have a long way to go.
>> So you believe in heaven and hell then, correct?
>>
>
> Heaven and hell are states of mind.
> I and others are already experiencing heaven, and many other people in
> this world are experiencing hell.
That's not what I was talking about and you know it.
>> To me, all that proves is that people are stupid.
>
> That's your own extreme cynical and materialistic world view.
> Not everyone has your world view, and you shouldn't imagine that your's is
> the best one.
Mine isn't just the 'best' one.... It's the ONLY one.
--
"Faith is believing what you know ain't so." --- Mark Twain
Andrew W
>
> "Andrew W" <removethi...@optushome.com.au> wrote in message
> news:4b2aaa38$0$1785$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
>
>> Some are interesting, others highly questionable.
>> Proof is the final thing I consider, not the first. However there are a
>> select few that have defied explanation by experts and come from sincere
>> sources that do show that there is something beyond the ordinary.
>> This subject is just very interesting because its getting so prevalent
>> around the world at this time.
>
> So the fact that we're going through ANOTHER cycle
> of 'Kooks Gone Wild', just as we have done many times
> in the past, is a reason to believe?
>
They are not kooks, they are normal people.
The few kooks that are around don't even make it on the news any more.
>
> In the twenties, Harry Houdini outted the frauds that were
> around at that time. Now, almost a hundred years later, our
> ability to fake this bullshit has improved. But the twenties
> didn't have something we have now...... Me.
>
> I remain as that voice in the night that shouts. "FAKE".
>
> I am the pin to YOUR spectral party balloon.
>
How many experiencers have you interviewed so far? If the answer is none
then you are not qualified to say who is sincere and who is fake.
>
>> Do you believe that all close-up ufo videos on youtube are CGI etc. and
>> that all ufo film/videos made elsewhere are fake or misidentified?
>
>
> Of COURSE they are you fucking moron!
>
You have no way of knowing that for sure.
You are going purely on your own extreme skepticism and cynicism. That much
is clear.
>
> We're talking about GHOSTS here.
>
Up to here we were talking about strange craft sightings.
>
>>>>> PS- What about ghosts? Do you believe in ghosts, Andy?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Not 100%.
>>>
>>>
>>> That's a yes.
>>>
>>
>> There are too many people having weird and unexplainable experiences,
>> including people I know, to dismiss it.
>
>
> Hahahahahaha! You should be forced to wear a sign in public
> that reads, "I BELIEVE IN GHOSTS".
>
> Then EVERYONE could make fun of you.
>
Your level of skepticism and cynicism is abnormal.
Most intelligent people who hear about this sort of thing at least ask
questions and give people the benefit of the doubt.
You are downright closed minded, offensive and disrespectful towards anyone
who challenges your own narrow materialistic worldview.
>
>
>> Its not a wise person who just tosses everything out just because its
>> difficult to believe.
>> Mankind has learned a lot from things that were at some time hard to
>> believe, and still are.
>
>
> And we've advanced by putting away superstition and fear and embracing
> reality instead. YOU are proof that we have a long way to go.
>
I am in no way into superstition and fear. I'm very much opposed to those
things.
Humans have advanced mostly by exploring things with an open mind. Absurd
claims by the few are dealt with in due course.
You don't weed out the fake and you don't explore and look for the truth,
you just slam-dunk everyone.
It is clear that you are an exceptionally egotistical, cynical and
materialistic individual who hates questions and can't tolerate looking at
the unexplained and unknown.
>
>
>>> So you believe in heaven and hell then, correct?
>>>
>>
>> Heaven and hell are states of mind.
>> I and others are already experiencing heaven, and many other people in
>> this world are experiencing hell.
>
>
> That's not what I was talking about and you know it.
>
I don't believe in heaven and hell as physical places in the afterlife as
religionists do.
>
>>> To me, all that proves is that people are stupid.
>>
>> That's your own extreme cynical and materialistic world view.
>> Not everyone has your world view, and you shouldn't imagine that your's
>> is the best one.
>
>
> Mine isn't just the 'best' one.... It's the ONLY one.
>
If you truly believe that then you are egotistical and self-centered to the
point of mental sickness.
HVAC
>>
>> So the fact that we're going through ANOTHER cycle
>> of 'Kooks Gone Wild', just as we have done many times
>> in the past, is a reason to believe?
>>
>
> They are not kooks, they are normal people.
> The few kooks that are around don't even make it on the news any more.
And YOU ain't got a clue why?
It's because they're on PRIME fucking TIME now, you retard!
>> In the twenties, Harry Houdini outted the frauds that were
>> around at that time. Now, almost a hundred years later, our
>> ability to fake this bullshit has improved. But the twenties
>> didn't have something we have now...... Me.
>>
>> I remain as that voice in the night that shouts. "FAKE".
>>
>> I am the pin to YOUR spectral party balloon.
>>
>
> How many experiencers have you interviewed so far? If the answer is none
> then you are not qualified to say who is sincere and who is fake.
And YOU are? Hahaha! Andy the 'objective' interviewer.
These con men already have you bamboozled. Meeting a real
'Ghost Hunter' would be the crowning achievement of your life.
>>> Do you believe that all close-up ufo videos on youtube are CGI etc. and
>>> that all ufo film/videos made elsewhere are fake or misidentified?
>>
>>
>> Of COURSE they are you fucking moron!
>>
>
> You have no way of knowing that for sure.
> You are going purely on your own extreme skepticism and cynicism. That
> much is clear.
EVERYTHING in science is met with skepticism.
That's almost the DEFINITION of science.
Tards like you just can't get that through your head.
>> We're talking about GHOSTS here.
>>
>
> Up to here we were talking about strange craft sightings.
I know it's difficult for you, Andy.
But PLEASE try to keep up.
Sir Gilligan Horry
Andrew, did you read this...
http://projectmothership.isgreat.org
:)
======================
______________________
Andrew W
>
> "Andrew W" <removethi...@optushome.com.au> wrote in message
> news:4b2bebee$0$5421$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
>>>
>>> So the fact that we're going through ANOTHER cycle
>>> of 'Kooks Gone Wild', just as we have done many times
>>> in the past, is a reason to believe?
>>>
>>
>> They are not kooks, they are normal people.
>> The few kooks that are around don't even make it on the news any more.
>
>
> And YOU ain't got a clue why?
>
> It's because they're on PRIME fucking TIME now, you retard!
>
We know about those. They are for entertainment purposes. But you just throw
practically everyone into that same barrel.
A normal person doesn't do that.
>>
>> How many experiencers have you interviewed so far? If the answer is none
>> then you are not qualified to say who is sincere and who is fake.
>
>
> And YOU are? Hahaha! Andy the 'objective' interviewer.
>
> These con men already have you bamboozled. Meeting a real
> 'Ghost Hunter' would be the crowning achievement of your life.
>
No. You make lots of assumptions.
You simply call everyone a conman/fraud/kook the moment something is a bit
hard for you to believe. You think that only that which is easy to believe
can be true.
Do you believe that the world and universe are so simple and only made up of
things that are easy for humans to believe?
Seems like that's the way you think.
>
>
>>>> Do you believe that all close-up ufo videos on youtube are CGI etc. and
>>>> that all ufo film/videos made elsewhere are fake or misidentified?
>>>
>>>
>>> Of COURSE they are you fucking moron!
>>>
>>
>> You have no way of knowing that for sure.
>> You are going purely on your own extreme skepticism and cynicism. That
>> much is clear.
>
>
> EVERYTHING in science is met with skepticism.
>
> That's almost the DEFINITION of science.
>
Not really. There's far more to science than that.
Your skepticism starts with no inquiry and just keeps going, with ridicule
and insults all along the way.
Not exactly normal. In fact quite insane and antisocial, and a wanker too.
>
> Tards like you just can't get that through your head.
>
I think its been shown plenty of times now that you are the tard (with a
chip on your shoulder).
Most normal people have some degree of curiosity about the unexplained. You
have none.
Most normal people at some point ask questions and give others the benefit
of the doubt. You never do.
Your excessively rowdy behaviour is definitely not normal.
You somehow imagine and are cock sure that you are one of only a few sane
people in the world.
Where you abused as a child, or hyperactive?
>
>
>>> We're talking about GHOSTS here.
>>>
>>
>> Up to here we were talking about strange craft sightings.
>
>
> I know it's difficult for you, Andy.
>
> But PLEASE try to keep up.
>
Go back and read for yourself. We were discussing youtube ufo videos further
up.
Andrew W
news:62coi5tvijpmla92l...@4ax.com...
I read most of it.
Did you spend any time around the Sydney metro area?
HVAC
>>> The few kooks that are around don't even make it on the news any more.
>>
>>
>> And YOU ain't got a clue why?
>>
>> It's because they're on PRIME fucking TIME now, you retard!
>>
>
> We know about those. They are for entertainment purposes. But you just
> throw practically everyone into that same barrel.
Ya. A TRASH barrel. That's where they belong.
I watched Ghost Hunters for about 5 minutes.
They shut off the lights, then walked around some
old house going, "Hey! Did you hear that"?
"Hear what"?
"A ghost".
That was enough for me........
>> EVERYTHING in science is met with skepticism.
>>
>> That's almost the DEFINITION of science.
>>
>
> Not really. There's far more to science than that.
> Your skepticism starts with no inquiry and just keeps going, with ridicule
> and insults all along the way.
Andy, how old are you?
I was interested in all sorts off kooky shit when I was a kid.
I grew out of it around 24-25.
Most people are the same. You?
> Not exactly normal. In fact quite insane and antisocial, and a wanker too.
Awww shucks! I *do* try.
>> Tards like you just can't get that through your head.
>>
>
> I think its been shown plenty of times now that you are the tard (with a
> chip on your shoulder).
> Most normal people have some degree of curiosity about the unexplained.
> You have none.
Had.... I *had* some curiosity until I studied the subject
and now it's been explained quite well.
I am actually still studying the subject. The venue has changed.
Now I come HERE to study human gullibility and foolishness.
..... And YOU are exhibit A.
> Most normal people at some point ask questions and give others the benefit
> of the doubt. You never do.
Sorry. I don't play that.
> Your excessively rowdy behaviour is definitely not normal.
Thanks!
> You somehow imagine and are cock sure that you are one of only a few sane
> people in the world.
Look around.... There's still a few of us left.
> Where you abused as a child, or hyperactive?
'Abused' is tough to define. If I treated my children
as I was treated... Today that would be called abuse.
And when I was a kid, there was no ADD or ADHD
the nuns just beat the shit outta ya if you fucked up.
--
"Science flies you to the moon. Religion flies you into buildings."
Sir Gilligan Horry
Mr HVAC ... take your pills !!!
Go back to bed Mr HVAC !!!
______________________
======================
On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 07:50:49 -0500, "HVAC" <harlowc...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Sir Gilligan Horry
A bit, just to walk around,
mainly to get my visa for a Japan visit.
Those big cities are amazing, aye.
____________
Have a Great Day Mate !!
Keep Up The Good Work !!!
Andrew W
> On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 11:23:09 +1100, "Andrew W"
> <removethi...@optushome.com.au> wrote:
>
>>"Sir Gilligan Horry" <G...@ga7rm5er.com> wrote in message
>>news:62coi5tvijpmla92l...@4ax.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Andrew, did you read this...
>>>
>>> http://projectmothership.isgreat.org
>>>
>>>
>>> :)
>>>
>>
>>I read most of it.
>>Did you spend any time around the Sydney metro area?
>>
>
> A bit, just to walk around,
>
That's where I've lived all my life.
Sir Gilligan Horry
<removethi...@optushome.com.au> wrote:
>"Sir Gilligan Horry" <G...@ga7rm5er.com> wrote in message
>news:tkqpi5tqb8uk75dir...@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 11:23:09 +1100, "Andrew W"
>> <removethi...@optushome.com.au> wrote:
>>
>>>"Sir Gilligan Horry" <G...@ga7rm5er.com> wrote in message
>>>news:62coi5tvijpmla92l...@4ax.com...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Andrew, did you read this...
>>>>
>>>> http://projectmothership.isgreat.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> :)
>>>>
>>>
>>>I read most of it.
>>>Did you spend any time around the Sydney metro area?
>>>
>>
>> A bit, just to walk around,
>>
>
>That's where I've lived all my life.
I was born in Adelaide
up at Para Hills.
I miss the old house
and wish Dad never sold it.
But...
since then I traveled,
and it was better I suppose.
For example,
at one stage I had
a lot of racist friends in Adelaide.
And later I moved to Auckland
to work at a backpackers.
There I met many people
from around the world.
And I met my first Japanese friend.
He and I worked at a German
restaurant and the German boss
was a bit racist to him.
So, he never went back.
And the Japanese dude and I became good friends.