It has as much to do with the second XF as your statements about M&W's
work does. Don't try and pretend otherwise, as that was the basis for
this entire discussion.

No, as anybody can see when looking back, your intial reply was about
Morgan and Wong and how you didn't trust them. Either you have a bad
memory or you're lying. Either way, what you're saying above is
untrue.

As far my points on Carter, they have just as much to do with Movie 2
as your comments on Morgan and Wong do on the other side.

You have been defending him -- if you weren't, we wouldn't be arguing
about his viability for a second movie at all here (duh) -- and many
times have been avoiding the direct issue of seasons 8 & 9.

Yes. Many times you either ignore his involvement with those seasons
or, more recently, have been saying you actually like them. Inherently
you have been defending Carter and his record throughout this debate,
otherwise our only argument as far as creative teams would involve
Morgan and Wong. It's very simple, and I have no idea why you now wish
to pretend that you're not defending him and the material he was
responsible for when you clearly have been throughout our exchanges,
as anyone who has read your messages could see.

As you've said many times before. We disagree. That's why we've been
having this discussion. It is not complicated.

In the context of XF material, you have made it clear that you do, I'm
afraid. Just as I have something against Carter in regards to much of
his last couple years of material, so too do you with them on the
other side. That's been the basis of this debate of ours all along.

How many times must you repeat yourself in one paragraph?

And my preference is Morgan and Wong. Within that context, you have
been defending Carter and his material -- as I said above and you
disengenuously tried to deny. Semantically, you're not going to win
this one. Nor logically. You obviously have been defending him.

What are you talking about? I already explained that I don't hate him
personally, but dislike what he did with the show -- and,
conveniently, you again choose to ignore one of my explanations on a
subject only to then repeat your previous spiel again. Now you're just
being dishonest as to my statements here, which is pathetic.

I'm no more vehement than you are on the other side about Morgan and
Wong, where you want so far as to personalize your dislike for some of
their material by saying they "hurt" you. Nothing like being
hypocritical -- if my dislike for Carter is vehement and personal,
then so too is yours for Morgan and Wong. Your holier than thou act is
laughable.

That's nice, but for the most part I did not. And that's why I don't
think he should do it, with or without yes-man by his side.

I don't want him on the movie. There's no comparitive basis as far as
other people that I would dislike more in such a position -- it's an
issue that stands on it's own, as I dislike what he did to derail the
franchise and the show. It's thanks to him there may never even be
more movies.

In the end I don't want him, no. That doesn't mean out of ANYBODY he'd
be my LAST choice, but I'm sure you'll believe otherwise, or try and
argue that at least, since you so often can't be bothered to even
honestly take into account what my opinions are here after I've
explained them -- instead, you just cut much of it away and repeat
what you want to. As you have most recently with the Carter issue and
my supposed -- but denied on more than one occasion by me -- "personal
hatred" for Carter. Just because I don't like his material on the XF
over the last few seasons does not mean I want him to suffer in his
personal life outside of anything XF related -- I just don't want him
to be in charge or significantly involved with the XF franchsie any
longer as I believe he's the source of a great deal if not most of the
problems.

Throughout this debate you've been very vague, sometimes outright
evasive, in regards to the last two seasons. I shouldn't have to go
back through your post history to get your opinons on those years, yet
your lack of discourse on the last two seasons has been consistent in
great measure up until recently in our back and forth discussion.
Maybe because you see it as more important to defend Carter than to
judge him -- or argue for him -- based on *those* seasons within this
context when talking to me. That's at least how it appears to me.

There are mistakes? I thought you said that outside Reyes and a couple
episodes you liked the last couple seasons. If that were the case, I'd
actually think you'd have more directly defended them, but in
actuality I think your true agenda is only to argue for Carter,
therefor ignoring to great degree what he did wrong -- which is shown
in great measure in regards to the last two seasons, which I think you
clearly know yourself.

No, it means that your outlook is incoherent in the way I originally
explained it was. I not only disagree with your comments, I also find
that they lack conheremce on the relationship issue considering
Carter's work his last two years -- work which you have been reticent
(unlike earlier seasons) to discuss.

I like both Humbug and PMP alot, myself. I don't know why it would
have to be an either or issue inherently, but if I compare Home to
about anything from season 8 it's going to win handily (just as
something like Reqiuem, ironically, would). I didn't find that M&W's
work deteriorated as I feel Carter's so badly did.

I feel that you don't consider it when you argue that they can't be
trusted with the MSR. If they can't be trusted then neither can Carter
in my view, based on what he did the last couple years. It seems that
with Carter you look at what he did right with the relationship but
not what he did wrong, while with M&W you do just the opposite from
your own prism of what's right or wrong for the relationship.

I would hope so, yes. Though if Carter is in charge the chances of a
character like Doggett -- who is unneeded, greatly unknown and/or
unwanted -- appearing suddenly go up I believe. Another reason not to
want him.

Just as it made no difference to my viewpoint whether you liked The
Gift or Reyes or not, yet you were the one to bring that up in the
issue of what you liked or disliked specifically about season 9. I was
only replying in kind -- but if you have a problem with the above
subject matter, you never should have gone down that road yourself
seeing as we never would have conversed on these matters at all if you
had not first done so.

Nothing like hypocritically pointing something out -- you're very good
at that.

All I have done is point out that if Morgan and Wong mistreated the
MSR then by the same token Carter surely did as well the last two
years. I'm only asking you to hold him to the same standard as you do
M&W, not to let them off the hook. As I've explained before, and you
have consistently ignored for convenience's sake.

It wasn't pretending to be anything, that's what it was about. Just
because you disliked what it said does not change this.

Scully's issues with Mulder was as another dominating male authority
figure, which is obviously true in many regards. He was the head agent
as well as having the story be first and foremost from the outset
crafted around his obsessions and his quest, not the other way around.
Never Again is about Scully examining where she fits into that,
becoming upset at the idea of being Mulder's tag along.

Mulder was obviously a dominating and controling figure in Scully's
life. She never would have entered into that world if not for him, nor
consistently been drawn further and further down that path if he
wasn't there beside her or, in many instances, leading her. Through
the series -- even up through All Things -- it's Scully that longs for
the normal life in many ways while Mulder lives through the files.
This was a periodic issue that was peppered throughout the series --
not just something that only Morgan and Wong used or brought up out of
nowhere. In the end, she questions it at times, becomes upset about
it, but will never truly leave -- that was always the point.

The theme of the episode fit perfectly into the present, and would not
have worked in flashback because it would have NOTHING to do with the
XF and her relationship with Mulder, as the entire show was about
obviously.

She was questioning her place broadly as far as the work and Mulder,
not just getting upset over a very specific incident. As is clear from
the outset, Mulder really does nothing overtly out of line in the
episode, instead it was a build-up that was long in coming.

Also, it could work better if you consider it as part of the post-LB
cancer arc. Which is easy to do.

Never Again makes it clear that there are broad questions in regards
to the relationship, not just small ones or ones that are specifically
in the moment. It's about Scully therefor questioning her place. Your
counter examples are simply irrelevent because they were of the
moment, not about the broad dynamics of the relationship -- who was
controlling it, and who was following because of the other's goals
and/or obsessions. The longer the series was on the more moot it
became because of how much more equal the quest would become, but at
that point this was not quite the case -- which is the point therein.

Again, the above examples are situational and of the moment, which NA
was not about. It was a broad look at the relationship.

It was all inherently about Mulder, so that carried over into her
reactions to him. Not difficult to figure.

What was pejorative about any of the comments I made in that
paragraph? Was she consistently shown as being concerned about the
search for Mulder? No, not at all really, with it being pushed to the
background overtly. Was she not pregnant with his kid (if the truth
somehow makes her look worse, that's not my fault)? Obviously she was.
Was I mistaken on the issue of Scully shoving Mulder's nameplate away?
No, not at all.

No, she remembered him in the moments it was convenient to attack
their relationship -- whether that be through her or the show just
doing it in some other fashion -- including referencing NA, which you
say you hate, pathetically in regards to the desk issue which pointed
to far more of a degeneration of the character than NA ever did by
pretending as if that was still something that was very relevent, and
using it as a contrast to the "superior" partnership that Dogget and
Scully would henceforth be in. Now that, that was disgusting,
especially considering the context. And it's very obvious as to
Carter's agenda by one-sidedly bringing up a dead issue when one of
the parties isn't even present.

I don't recall asking you to go through every episode piece by piece
at all, so the above is rather pointless.

Then isn't your whole argument here wasted, since it's been one with
me? Looks like you're the one who's irrational -- very incoherent in
your outlook -- considering your broad statement about me in contrast
to your actions in regards to engaging me at all. Funny.

I further explained my thinking as to such a supposition, but you
convenintly ignored that explanation as far as Existence and sesaon 8
along with those about my feelings towards Carter specifically. So not
only are *you* irrational, you're also obviously and pathetically
dishonest.

So, since much of season 8 pertained to the question of paternity, I
guess you would have been fine if it was revealed that the baby was
really someone else's offspring? That wouldn't have bothered you at
all?

Since that was such an inherent question, it was going to be answered
in some form or another in that season, but if it was revealed that
Mulder supported Scully even though Skinner was the father (just cuz I
need a name to fill-in) you would have no qualms? Okey dokey.

The question was never posed as far as Emily having a father. It was
not an issue like the paternity in season 8 was. Emily was about
medical rape inherently, while the William arc from the outset was not
only about how it was possible that Scully was pregnant (never
answered for shit) but even more as to *who* impregnated her. Are you
really telling me you'd be fine and dandy to find out Scully slept
with some other guy and had his kid instead of Mulder's? Wouldn't that
inherently harm and contradict what the relationship was up to that
point?

The key difference as far as that scene as opposed to so many others
in the show's history is that it was a statement -- a confirmation
without contradiction or hint of other possibilities -- as opposed to
a question, as The X-Files was so often about. See, it was the answer
*to* the season's big question -- something rare for the show which
makes its point all the more striking and obvious. I don't know what
else can be read into the scene, as the statement was very clear and
without alternative (the only alternative, really, that I've seen is
to believe that there was no point being made at all there, which is
silly). And I especially find it funny that you would find it vague
considering the way you read so much into other moments in other
episodes all over the place. Very odd.

The way the scene plays -- Scully's comment to Mulder ("I named him
after your father") and his reply ("I don't know, Scully. He looks
suspiciously like AD Skinner") is not subtle at all. I can look at my
own family tree and see the evidence backed up, as baby's very often
are given the name of a close relative -- as Scully made clear was the
case -- and/or, as was also the case in Existence, their father's
middle name (all I have to do is look at my Uncle's first name in
contrast to my Grandfather's middle name for one example).

This was not a subtle or vague moment in the history of the show. Not
one bit.

I find it interesting that you're back to reading so much into wording
and specific actions in scenes, yet can't figure out the point of the
ending to the season. By your own standard -- wording being key, as
well as context -- Existence's last scene is overtly obvious in the
point it's trying to get across. I find it very weird how you are so
incoherent in how you analyze particular episodes or even particular
moments as opposed to others within a specific episode.

And who does? He doesn't make me "ballistic" but his actions make me
believe that it's for the best if someone else is in control of any
future XF projects. For whatever reason, you find it convenient to try
and portray me as someone who's "Losing it" in some way by being out
of control with my hatred for Carter as a human being, which I have
said over and over is untrue. Dishonesty's a bad habit when anybody
can see just what it is you're lying about. The above inference is
just another example of your problem in this area.

It's not unimportant at all. It's a very specific point. Hilarious how
you can rtead so much into how Mulder refers to Scully or someone
leading her aound when she's pregnant, but can see no point at all in
the events of Patience.

It's attacks on Mulder and the MSR are obvious as can be. Once again,
you show how incoherent your thinking is when looking at one scene as
opposed to another.

So I take it by that standard there's no point being made in Never
Again when Scully asks why she doesn't have a desk, right? Uh huh.

The nameplate issue was totally lacking in any type of subtlety --
again, in order to act as if it was something else you must pretend as
if there's nothing to it at all, as there's no alternate reading to be
had as far as substance. Telling? I'd say so.

Carter's point got through to me loud and clear -- i.e. Mulder's the
past, forget him, and he was also a bad partner. Seemed pretty
"dehumanizing" to me, but I guess there really was nothing of
importance to it. You'd be wise to learn that such scenes are not
filmed to be without point typically, and this clearly was a case
where the point was driven home conclusively. To the extent that there
is no alternative reading on substance to be had, only a pretence by
some that there's nothing really there at all. Which overtly
contradicts my aforementioned little rule to watch for.

So Scully was really doing him a favor by shoving his nameplate away?
Yeah, that must have been it. Give me a break.

What does any of this have to do with Scully shoving his nameplate
away in Patience? Nothing that I can see. I guess having your
existence being thrown in a corner by even the most important person
in your life can be seen as nothing of signifigance when you're a
loser like Spooky Mulder? Wow, I can see why you'd defend Carter on
this since that's what you appear to think.

So, what you're saying is, is that there was no point at all? Yeah
right. If that were the case such a scene would not even exist in the
first place. Why would it?

The question remains, why would they stick in that scene, particularly
considering some of the other exchanges and underlying theme within
that episode, if there was no point to it? That's a very big hole in
your argument, to the extent where the entire thing is either
nonexistent or close to it due to such damage.

It's also telling that you have to pull up -- or make up -- so much
information as far as the characters and so forth to get an alternate
reading other than the obvious, and that that alternate reading, in
the end, is only that the scene means nothing of signifigance which
isn't believable considering the broad dynamics of the episode and
where the show was as far as transition.

And WHO removes the nameplate? The woman who thinks in just those
terms! Geez, there goes your argument to even further extent -- in
fact, you just made my argument for me on this subject. Great job. I
applaud you on your logic as far as Scully on this one as it only
strengthens my point and tears up yours. Awesome.

Oh, geez, so Patience references an old hurt from an episode you think
is awful in its points on the relationship, yet you think it has no
point whatsoever in regards to said relationship by doing so? Yet more
incoherence.

Exactly what the episode wants us to know. Mulder was a bad partner,
but things were going to be healthier and better between Scully and
Doggy. Aw.

Yes, but that ain't something you're entitled to or likely to get when
you're partnered with Mulder. Which is the point.

Again, Scully was avoiding Mulder's thoughtlessness as a partner. The
contrast  is clear, as well as the point. Evidently the clear
thoughtlessness as far as Mulder and his disappearance doesn't count
though -- cuz in that regard, Mulder comes off far better in his
pursuit of missing loved ones throughout the series than Scully does
in season 8.

We've gone over this. At no time have you pointed out how it's vacuous
in message, only how you thoroughly dislike the message and theme of
the episode. Evidently you believe that because you dislike it that
somehow makes it empty, but nothing you've provided as far as argument
has supported such a stance.

Just because you dislike the message doesn't mean it isn't there.

It wasn't masquerading as anything. It was a relationship episode.
Just because you dislike what it says about the relationship doesn't
mean that that wasn't what it was about. You seem to think that
because you dislike that makes it a non-relationship ep, even though
that's clearly what it is about.

Whether NA insults you or not -- or hurts you -- doesn't mean that it
isn't a relationship episode. It's also amazing to see more hypocrisy
on your part, as you try and use other episodes in contrast to make
your point yet criticize me when I have done the same thing to try and
hold you to your own standard as far as the relationship.

Oh, yet more contrasts to make a point. What hypocrisy considering
your statements to me when I have done the same. Also, you only make
my point that Scully is flawed and as prone to weakness or bad
judgement as anybody with your other examples, whether you consider
those insulting or not is of litle relevence to my main point. So
again, you only help me through your own argument. Thank you.

Your problem with NA is that it's out of character. By the same
standard, I repeat, All Things is just as out of character when
examined. That doesn't make either episode wrong in interpretation or
further illumination, but it does show how little your argument
against NA holds up to scrutiny on the issue.

NA was about dominating males in her life, which fits Mulder as far as
profile. It started out as her entering his world, and NA is about how
much further if at all she wants to go down that path. It's about her
living her life for his quest, even though it isn't really hers.

In what way does NA do this? I don't see that at all.

So? That doesn't make NA wrong or AT right, or vice versa. It's a
different angle, but on the issue of what's in character, neither
would or could hold up to the standard you try and place on NA -- i.e.
what we knew of Scully before either episode.

I still don't think you've explained how this is the case.

NA could just as easily fit into your outline of the relationship
above. That's the funny thing.

Judging by how personally you take even small slights, it's not
difficult to figure why you think I hate Chris Carter as a person and
want him "punished". It appears that you're the one with the problem
of over-personalizing things to the point where you swing too far one
way or another much of the time. I guess you need to look in the
mirror before criticizing others in such matters, that is clear.

NA is about them not being on the same page. What you appear to find
disturbing about that ep is that this goes unresolved -- but such is
the point of the entire thing.

Wait, I thought if she was any more callous you were going to want
something very terrible to happen to her. Now you really don't blame
her at all? Hm.

Yeah, again, your problem seems to be more with the lack of resolution
to any of it than anything else. As even you have made clear that the
theme of that episode is not something unique to the relationship.

Yes, resolution is the key word for you on this issue I think.

Well, you don't think Existence is direct, so I question your
statement simply when considering the comparison. Again, your
examination to such great extent of the meaning and ending of All
Things in contrast to how you can so clearly miss the point of
Existence is mystifying. Very contradictory.

And yet it deals with so many of the same thematic elements, as you
admit. Your problem clearly is that NA is different in resolution of
things -- or more clearly, in its non-resolution.

Uh, I explained this again, and you AGAIN ignored and cut it out. It
was needed because of the pregnancy issue of season 8. As I said
before, that season is greatly wasted as far as the pregnancy arc and
the interactions between Mulder and Scully because it wanted to hold
off on the big revelation of Mulder being the father -- therefore, as
far as the serilialized plotting of the season, the entire thing was
pretty close to vacuous. Nothing is really done with the pregnancy,
other than it being revealed that Mulder is the father and Scully
having the kid -- a big waste.

Also, as I said earlier, if you're going to set up a romantic thread
on a show it's expected that at some point it be resolved through a
physical relationship. Why shouldn't it be? That's the question I
would ask. At some point it just becomes dumb, and a tease for the
sake of status quo and the gimmick -- basically cowardice on the
issue, even while exploiting it. Obviously if the two are attracted to
and love each other there's no realistic reason for it to never
happen, as you seem to think would have been fine -- once the romantic
issue, or intentions, were overtly played out in FTF it became
inevitable and only logical that at some point this issue would need
to be resolved lest it become an illogical joke.

How many times do I have to repeat the above before you'll acknowledge
that I've already answered you fully?

Now, you had *no* reason to repeat your little question above as I
have explained myself multiple times on this issue. Just because you
dislike my answer doesn't mean it isn't there. You're just being
overtly dishonest, which frankly I've had about enough of. Maybe this
time you can quote a portion of my explanations, while still
misrepresnting them by cutting out the rest? Sounds about right.

And who did I say I wanted to crucify? In fact, when you accused me of
much the same thing in an earlier post, I denied it -- only to have
you ignore my denials and reiterate your same dishonest accusals of me
having it in for Carter. And again, an example above of you cutting up
a paragraph of mine only to have you act as if you're still loking for
the explanation I gave you within it -- as the rest of *that* further
explained why I thought the need for a physical relationship being
confirmed at the end of season 7 instead of 8 was needed. But, of
course, you act as if I never did explain myself on the issue at all.
That's just sad.

And yet that's exactly why you're against Morgan and Wong -- because
they made the relationship too dysfunctional in your view.

And again, you cut up my paragraph above. As I said, I fail to see how
seasons 8 & 9 are okay if you think Morgan and Wong went too far.

Yes, as with Patience, where I see a clear theme you try and pretend
there's a disconnect or nothing at all as far as the nameplate issue.

So why don't you do that and fix all your problems with NA? My God, it
could be a great episode for you if you just followed this standard
with it.

Even as it's being attacked, evidently. I guess since you're a camel
at that point you see what you want to see, kind of like a mirage,
following the whole desert theme.

I believe it's being attacked during season 8 based on what I *did*
see. Doesn't mean it destroyed it, but it was hurt (there's that word)
needlessly because of Carter's vendetta.

Based on this, I guess none of us even needed a show after the first
couple years -- why not just "imagine it all". You're only
underscoring what a disaster season 8 is just in this regard, let
alone all the very direct ones. When it does deal with the MSR it
mostly is botched that season, with non-resolution being the theme of
the day -- along with a heavy dose of ignorance -- at least when
Mulder is back amongst the living, because while he's missing he's
being attacked all over the place, along with the precious
relationship you act as if you champion when arguing against Morgan
and Wong.

You certainly can read a great amount into episodes you like, but when
you don't want to see something that's screaming in your face I guess
you just turn on that wonderful imagination you're so proud of. Kind
of explains your debate tactics in this thread, actually.

Did you want something more "terrible than a car wreck" harm her
again? You may want to have these impulses checked out. I guess you
must have been very happy when the bee -- that had been hiding in her
collar for HOURS conveniently -- stung her. Bad Scully. Bad!

Hm. I guess you must have had your eyes closed through a good portion
of season 8.

Also, the non-existent exploration of the relationship that was
previously so strong was a first for the show in its entire run. It
seems you made up new standards for yourself just so you could pretend
season 8 "wasn't that bad". Because, certainly, never had the
relationship been so bungled before that season, whether through
attacks or simply being ignored.

Some episodes the last couple seasons she seemed to care more about
Doggett.

Whether William's addressed or not, does not change what the
relationship now is in the canon. As I said, the relationship and its
details are not dependent on William -- you act as if because it's
MOTW (which is unlikely, considering) the relationship will not be the
same as it was overtly heading into such a movie.

Already this is too complicated for the confines of a movie,
considering not everybody is going to be an XF fanatic or maybe didn't
bother with the last few seasons. Carter really blew it.

What is your point when pointing out how much you dislike the work of
Morgan and Wong in their last couple seasons? That you hated their
material? Big deal.

And the reason I make points about season 8 -- specifically in the
above context -- is because you ASKED me questions that directly
pertained to that season and my feelings on it. Then you turn around,
again cut up my post, and act as if you have no idea why I'm referring
to season 8? You are one of the most dishonest people I have ever had
the displeasure to converse with on a message forum. And consider some
of the other posters that has included, that's truly saying something.

Your game is tiresome and frankly pathetic.

No, you don't appear to care to address many of my answers to your
questions. Yet you're just fine with repeating the same questions over
and over as if I never have answered, even though I clearly have on
many such issues. You are a liar. Tactless but true.

And you'll do anything to promote your preference for Carter over M&W,
including your dishonest, evasive and vague tactics in this thread on
that subject.

Tahts' alaso clearly the reason why you bother to cut all but the most
recent pieces of the thread chain in regards to our debate up. Makes
it more difficult to see what was previously said. Somewhat clever,
but also dishonest  considering your other debating methods.

Uh, again, I further explained my position on this, but you cut that
explanation out -- because it was inconvenient for you. Here you go,
I'm just going to repost it, since I clearly ALREADY answered the
above question as to why I brought Existence up:

But, oddly, you seem okay with that. If the last scene of Existence
didn't exist, would you still be fine with the MSR in season 8? Like I
said, it appears to me that all that matters to you in this regard was
the destination instead of the bungled journey to that climax -- why
else would you be okay with the tattered mess of a relationship of
season 8 when you argue so strongly about it in regards to others
seasons? I'd appreciate it if you directly answered me on this instead
of cutting this out of your reply.

The above point, in case you missed it, is that the only way someone
could argue for season 8 on the strength of the relationships which
you're always acting as if is so damned important, is if they were far
more concerned with the destination than the journey. Otherwise,
considering the emptiness as far as that relationship in season 8, and
the serialzed plot around it, you get basically nothing. Yet you would
argue that Carter did fine by the relationship, even though you missed
his main point at the end of the season while providing little else as
far as substance the rest of the way? Well, whatever -- must have
really closed your eyes and imagined a hell of alot to be satisfied
that season, as well as ignoring whatever you didn't like.

I didn't even say everybody agrees with me in the original comment --
I said that *I* believed *many*, not all or even most, would disagree
with you on your implied stance that M&W were only quirky as opposed
to good and that Carter was superior. I stand by that. Now you're just
being hyperbolic -- basically more dishonesty on your part. A
consistent theme in your replies to me, along with the all the
incoherence in them. Lies lies lies. That's all you know.

Is it any more curious than yours on M&W? I've explained my stance,
you've just chosen to ignore a great deal of it.

No, you're trying to manipulate my paragraphs so you can paste what
you want to as far as meaning onto them and ignore what you don't want
to deal with, even while acting as if you still want me to answer
questions that I've given you the same answers to multiple times only
to have those replies be ignored.

Now, if I were you, I'd just ask you what this "has to do with Movie
2". Hell, maybe I'll leave it at that.

Oh, coherence on a subject for once, even you noticed it. Thing is,
sesaons 8 & 9 are a big part of what I'm judging Carter on -- just as
you admit that you judge Morgan and Wong on their later work. Somehow
you think that's relevent but that doing the same with Carter is not
-- damn, you're back to incoherence.

It started as an analysis of seasons 8 & 9 as fa ras bad material
(broadly, the majority of those seasons) just as it started as an
analysis of Morgan and Wong's later work on the show and how that
might translate to a movie. Maybe you should re-read the thread if you
still can't grasp this.

Wait, I thought they were fine seasons for the most part and that you
liked them. Now you agree that they're bad enough that if you judge
Carter on them solely he should be kept away? Yet again, you're
contradicting yourself.

Just as you are by only judging Morgan and Wong on their later work
while you act as if this is wrong to do in regards to Carter. You
never can follow your own standard it appears -- you've actually got
*double*- standards all over the place.

You made it clear that you simply didn't trust Morgan and Wong period,
in your very first post on this subject, not just in comparison to
Carter. Just as I don't trust Carter period.

Oh, so I guess you and Laura Cap may have disagreements as well. Pity.

Just as you don't know what Carter would do on the movie. Yet even
though he msitreated the MSR and the show as a wole, you seem to trust
him with it.

Oddly, Chris Carter need not give such a press conference. I guess he
always was great with the relationship.

Huh, so would I. Something tells me you mis-worded that.

No, you're the one with the agenda as far as pretending I hate Chris
Carter on a personal level. Even though I've explained otherwise --
beacuse you like to see and believe what you want to, and thus are
dishonest.

Just because I say that you view Morgan and Wong much the way I do
Carter does not mean that I think you automatically have great
animostity for them or wish something bad would happen to them, as you
have acted is the case out of nowhere as far as my dislike for Carter
on the XF -- you made something up in your head, and have decided to
stick with it no matter what I say. That's the truth. In the end I
don't have anything personal against Chris Carter, I just don't want
him to make another movie based off his past record -- just the same
way you have made clear you feel about Morgan and Wong. Go ahead and
stick to your own story if you must, but that's how I truly feel on
the subject.

You've already proven my point through your own arguments. You've been
arguing against the two based on their past work over their final
years, just as I have with Carter. No difference. Even though you want
to pretend there is, so you can act as if your opinion is more valid
in preferring Carter. In the end, you're just a liar.

Again, you over-read that scene yet miss so much in others. Amazing. I
found that scene pleasant, and I did not think Mulder was "removed"
from Scully at all. Was he supposed to be really into discussing what
color she would want the baby's room to be or something? Geez.

Wow, you paste what you want to on *this* scene, yet can't figure out
the point of the ending to Existence? Talk about seeing whatever you
want to, for whatever reason.

Yeah, I thought she had that "take me now!" look in that scene too.
Wonder how Mulder missed it?

That episode kicks ass. Ironically it's probably too extreme to be
used in a movie.

And as I said to you, but you cut out because you're so dishonest, I
was only holding you to your own standard for M&W by bringing up some
episodes that Carter oversaw where Mulder and Scully weren't on the
best of terms. Telling that when I use your standard you twist it to
mean that I'm hating on Carter -- that would inherently mean you were
doing the same with M&W, if you actually stopped to consider things.

Again, you only help to maake my point through your own words. Thanks
again.

Duh, I told you what my point was. You cut that out and ignored it.
You have a real problem with honesty, or lack thereof.

I never said he was awful in those paragraphs you're now taking
exception to, I said that there were examples of his "mistreatment" of
the relationship by *your* own standard on the subject. But of course,
you ignore that and act as if I was screaming for Carter's head, when
all I did was look at a couple of episodes where Mulder and Scully
were a bit hostile at points that had nothing to do with the dreaded
M&W.

As significant as the way you use words like "crucify" and "punish" in
relation to my arguments against Carter which don't go along with your
views? Again, you're shown as a hypocrite. Nice work.

You started out with that message from the begining, specifically
mentioneing how YOU did NOT trust them with the MSR. That's how this
started. More dishonesty. It just never ends with you.

You remember when I said I did not hate him but would prefer someone
else make the next movie? Yeah, along the same line as your statements
as far as Morgan and Wong. Just because you ignore my replies does not
negate them.

Oh, so you can see it in some cliched torture scenes, but not in the
obvious thematic attacks on the character throughout early season 8?
If torture scenes was all there was, I would not have a problem with
season 8 in this regard -- though there would still be many others
that I would find problematic.

So, you made up a nice little fantasy world so you could pretend that
season 8 was decent. That's what I see when consider your meaning.

Yeah, evidently a non-meaning. How about the love triangle? That was
pretty damned inspired, no? I felt so bad for Doggett when Mulder
started breathing. Actually, I'm lying about that. You must be rubbing
off on me.

You stated that you were "hurt" by its resolution, which seems to be
synonomous  for you with bad or "botched". Maybe I misread your
meaning.

I think it was horrible because nothing was done with it of
signifigance.

Who said I was destyoyed? Other than you?

Um, since he was the baby's father he was inherently a parent quite
obviously, even if he was a deadbeat.

But as is typical of the reatarded writing of that period, no decent
or coherent explanation is ever given.

Yes, both she and Mulder were bad parents. We'd be agreed here if you
only realized that the fact that Mulder was the father made him a
parent.

Because she was a moron. Like the writers during that season.

Yes, his father takes off after he's a been home a day or two, and
mommy doesn't notice his existence until something terrible happens,
only to then give him up for adoption after she previously acted
desperate to have him -- or at least the idea of him. What a great
story. (note sarcasm)

What is your point when you criticize Morgan and Wong's work later on?
Same thing.

Also, you brought up William, and I responded. Therefor, the question
lays with you as to what the point of bringing that up was. Oh, that's
right, you were "hurt" again -- I guess that's highly relevent as far
as Movie 2. Uh huh.

Further, I discussed the William issue after you brought it up because
it's a great example of Chris Carter -- the man you would prefer for a
second movie -- screwing up a storyline that you evidently think is
important to explore, possibly because of the way it was treated on
the show. I find it ironic that you would want the guy that caused the
mess in this regard to come back and "fix" it even though much of his
solution of fixing it broadly was to get rid of the kid he previously
acted as if was so important because he had no use for him as a
gimmick any longer -- in other words, one could easily argue that in
Carter's mind the issue is settled and he *did* fix or deal woth it
properly already. Show's how screwed up everything was the last couple
years.

So I guess you actually admit there were BIG problems? That's all I've
ever said, and I don't trust the man behind those problems. Just as
you don't trust Morgan and Wong.

And the entirety of Morgan and Wong's work was not made up of season
4.

You mean the way I don't hate Chris Carter, right?

Who does? An irrational implication/accusation.  

So? You want a prize?

Yes, I know, you're easily hurt. Maybe you should just be more careful
as far as what you watch.

I insisted beacuse you kept on insisting that Mirgan and Wing were
only interested in surface "moments" and that you needed more than
that. NA has moer, but you dislike what it has more of.

It was.

You started it by disagreeing with me in the first place. You quoted
my post, and then I did the same thing back to you -- thing is that
technically you started it by disagreeing with me.

You brought up your dislike for their work through later seasons.
Evidently that's off limits according to you as far as Carter.

How does your viwe of Morgan and Wong's woprk relate to the movie any
more than my perspective on Carter's? You still have not answered
this, but it's obvious that you're a hypocrite on this issue since you
did the same thing to start this debate with me you actually had the
nerve to question me on (i.e. looking at someobody's past work to
judge them as far as Movie 2).

I'd ban him from a second movie, just as you have stated you'd do in
relation to a second movie as far as Morgan And Wong. No more venom
from mr than there is from you -- I don't have to like Carter any
more, or even as much, as you do Morgan and Wong as far as the
X-files. It doesn't mean I want to crucify him.

Now, I've had quite enough of this as you have proven yourself to be a
totally dishonest and illogical debater, that simply is not worth
bothering with from this time on. So if you're replying for my
benefit, don't bother, as I will not read another one of replies on
this issue let alone answer it.