Kricfalusi flames TTA
Ron Bauerle
The following is excerpted from John Kricfalusi's column in the latest
(May/June 1994) Animation Magazine. I don't normally read his column
because of the diatribes and other hooey, but while flipping through
the magazine I saw "Tiny Toons" mentioned in it and was (not!) pleased
to read the following:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
'Superbastardization is when you mix and match different premise
betrayals with parasitism and other bad writing tricks until the
premise becomes so twisted that it is beyond any coherent statement.
...
The current reigning monarch of Superbastardization is "Tiny Toons".
This goes so far beyond imaginable idiocy that I can barely believe its
elements as I describe them. The premise of this series is based upon
the classic Warner Bros.' irreverent characters - only now they are
"cutesy" (as against "cute" or appealing to look at) babies. _Every_
character is a "comedy relief" character, even the ones who were
originally straight-man characters. Elmer Fudd is not only zany, he has
a vagina now. Let's go further. Glue an exceptionally unirreverent
live-action director's name to it, then plug these stolen
bastardization personalities into situations not suited for them. For
example - into stolen movie plots. Then commit every single other bad
writing crime known to man.
I take my hat off to "Tiny Toons". This is a supreme parody of all
that's bad about modern cartoons.'
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
This from somebody who came up with stuff like "Son of Stimpy", which
IMVNSHO is a better "supreme parody of all that's bad about modern
cartoons"... Real quality writing there, yup yup yup...
Who died and made him the Harlan Ellison of animation criticism anyway?
And at least a few people _do_ find the characters "cute" as in
"appealing to look at", as against "cutesy". Maybe another case of
YMMV, but I'm not inclined to even give him the benefit of the doubt...
If you'd like to send a letter to the editor of Animation Magazine,
send it to anni...@aol.com, and include your name, company, address
and phone number.
And have a nice day :^)
RDB
robert chirico
I've never heard of that magazine before so I don't know what lines they
take on what is good or bad. Anyway, who cares. The guy is entitled to
his opinion as any other person, even if it is or is not popular. The show
was obviouly popular enough for three seasons, lots of merchandise (even
a TTA cereal), and a fan following.
So, if he wants to dislike the show, let him. Can't please everybody.
That is all.
/[[[[[[/[[[[[ /[[[[[[ /[[ | Robert J. Chirico - Ohio University
///[[/ /[[//[[ ///[[// /[[ | College of Engineering
/[[ /[[ /[[ /[[ // | rchi...@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu
/[[[[[[/[[ //[[ /[[ /[[ | chi...@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
////// // // // // | By the way, we're all doomed for life.
Dondi Buttgen
: (May/June 1994) Animation Magazine. I don't normally read his column
While I totally disagree with this person, and do not even want to bother
wasting the bandwidth to respond to his comments, since I know we all
probably feel the same and he is not on here anyway.
My main qustion though is "Why is this in a May/June 94 Magzine) Other
than the specials, TTA has been dead for years. What is the point of
trashing a cartoon that except for syndication is not even around
anymore. His article was worded in the present tense as if the show was
just on for the first time and he was having a bitch fest about it. Hell
what's next, trashing Speed Racer or Gertie the Dinosaur ?
Lynx
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Robert A. Jung
>In a previous article, chi...@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu (robert chirico ) wrote:
>>So, if he wants to dislike the show, let him. Can't please everybody.
>
>or "bad writing" after seeing some of the episodes of "Ren & Stimpy".
Well, I've never liked REN & STIMPY, and I never had any respect for
Kricfalusi. So if he hates TTA, I figure that just certifies that I have
good taste for liking it. B-)
(Just when I didn't think a cartoon can get dumber than R&S, than BEAVIS
AND BUTT-HEAD comes along. Will wonders never cease? At least the toons
ran over all four of them in the Spring Break Special... B-)
--R.J.
B-)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Babs: "Buster, if I give you a nickel, will you carry my books?"
Buster: "Shucks, I'll carry your books for nuthin'."
Babs: "Great! Here's every book I own." >>> CRASH! <<<
~~~~~~~~~~~ These opinions are all mine, but you're welcome to 'em. ~~~~~~~~~~
Stay Tiny Tooned! Send assorted silliness to rj...@netcom.com
Dondi Buttgen
: AND BUTT-HEAD comes along. Will wonders never cease? At least the toons
: ran over all four of them in the Spring Break Special... B-)
I exspecially enjoyed the line
"Go away you disgusting excuse for a cartoon"
Lynx
-- I have a call for Ima Yutz, is there an Ima Yutz here ?
ngsi...@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu
> This may provoke another flamewar, but at least it isn't about TTBS...
Well, let's try to talk with our brains, not our hearts.
> The following is excerpted from John Kricfalusi's column in the latest
> (May/June 1994) Animation Magazine. I don't normally read his column
> because of the diatribes and other hooey, but while flipping through
> the magazine I saw "Tiny Toons" mentioned in it and was (not!) pleased
> to read the following:
Thanks for the info. I plan on buying my copy now. =O)
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 'Superbastardization is when you mix and match different premise
> betrayals with parasitism and other bad writing tricks until the
> premise becomes so twisted that it is beyond any coherent statement.
John K. is correct about this...
> The current reigning monarch of Superbastardization is "Tiny Toons".
> This goes so far beyond imaginable idiocy that I can barely believe its
> elements as I describe them. The premise of this series is based upon
> the classic Warner Bros.' irreverent characters - only now they are
> "cutesy" (as against "cute" or appealing to look at) babies. _Every_
> character is a "comedy relief" character, even the ones who were
> originally straight-man characters. Elmer Fudd is not only zany, he has
> a vagina now.
John K., I hate to say this, has a point here. He has seen all the old Looney
Tune cartoons as we all have over the years. If you watch any of the "Duck
Season" cartoons, Bugs and Daffy play mind games to outdo the other. Watch
"Tiny Toons" and you'll see a group of "happy happy joy joy" morons running
around looking for plots (with exception of Mr. Cool's rules of dating).
When they find plots, TTA writers steal from Batman, old Looney Tunes plots,
or try to relive old cartoons (such as Duck Twacy, John K.'s favorite
cartoon).
With a few cartoon exceptions on TTA, most of TTA is like watching the "Muppet
Babies" meet "Looney Tunes." Sure, the comedy is ok at times, but the stories
have no point to them nor any running gags/plots to hold together like glue.
Real cartoons have good comedy writing--not a bunch of characters running
around wondering who's doing what thing to who.
> Let's go further. Glue an exceptionally unirreverent
> live-action director's name to it, then plug these stolen
> bastardization personalities into situations not suited for them. For
> example - into stolen movie plots. Then commit every single other bad
> writing crime known to man.
See above comments. Paul Dini sucked on "Tiny Toons," but when he moved
to BTAS, he began to WRITE good cartoons and CREATE good characterazation.
Let's get real here--TTA was created by Warner Bros. to try to revive their
animation department and wanted a "Looney Tunes" rip-off with a slight spin.
On the contrary, when Animaniacs was created, Warner Bros. let them come up
with an original idea and work with it. Try, A! uses some of the Looney
Tunes tradition, but they have worked up differently--they actually have
characterization and straight people (i.e., the accountant from "Plane Pals.").
> I take my hat off to "Tiny Toons". This is a supreme parody of all
> that's bad about modern cartoons.'
AMEN, JOHN K. !!!
> This from somebody who came up with stuff like "Son of Stimpy", which
> IMVNSHO is a better "supreme parody of all that's bad about modern
> cartoons"... Real quality writing there, yup yup yup...
Son of Stimpy is a tragic cartoon about a father and son who were separated
from the beginning. It's ironic I write this on Father's Day because SOS
is a story which most fathers can relate if they are in the middle of an
ugly divorce with a family with a young child. SOS has Stinky (Stimpy's
child) find his father (Stimpy) at the time when he's already grown.
The point of SOS is not to be funny but to be a touching Christmas story.
> And at least a few people _do_ find the characters "cute" as in
> "appealing to look at", as against "cutesy". Maybe another case of
Ren and Stimpy are appealing to the audience most of the time, but they
admit their have their ugly sides (have you seen the X-Men cartoon?).
TTA's ugliest moment is either Elmyra hugging the loving sh*t out of some
character or Plucky's bad eye-take.
> If you'd like to send a letter to the editor of Animation Magazine,
> send it to anni...@aol.com, and include your name, company, address
> and phone number.
I will let them know my opinions after reading John K.'s latest article
for myself unedited and completely. I don't LOVE Tiny Toon Adventures,
but it's better than most of today's animation and cartoons. What saves
their vacation special is the fact that they can have good parodies when
they avoid using the main characters or the writers can work up the characters
in the appropriate situation (which most of the time in the main series they
can't).
> RDB
What? You are afraid to give your name? =O)
IMHO =O)
--
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
"Lots of people who make Norman G. Sippel
cartoons can't draw!" ngsi...@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu
-- Stimpy ngsi...@miavx2.ham.muohio.edu
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Email ren-n-...@aug3.augsburg.edu for the Ren and Stimpy Documents!
Michael Russell
Kricfalusi is a regular column author for Animation Magazine. This is
his fifth (or maybe fourth) article in as many issues of the magazine.
I think he really has a chip on his shoulder regarding Tiny Toon Adv.
I remember seeing a reference in an issue of "Animato" magazine that
John K. did have some minor contribution to one or two early TTA
episodes. Also, his chief storyboard artist when Ren & Stimpy got
started and who now in charge of Ren & Stimpy -- Bob Camp -- was hired
away from Tiny Toon Adv. If you look, you will see Bob Camp credited
with several TTA episodes.
While I believe John K's remarks about Tiny Toon Adv are very biased
and based on some bad relation with the folks at Warner Bros, I do
agree with some of his more general comments. For example, I agree
with him that the animators and storyboard folks should have more say
in the final cartoon than normally found -- the writers should not
have the only say. It is obvious from reading TTA scripts that the
writers dictated everything. On the other hand, in an e-mail chat
with one of the writers of Rocko's Modern Life, I learned they have
much looser scripts and let the storyboard artist dream up more gags.
The writer pointed to the airline story as a good example where the
script was essentially an outline and that most of the gags were
contributed by several members of the team.
Cheers - Michael Russell (michael...@vnet.ibm.com)
Dondi Buttgen
poor netiquette to go to a fan group and trash the reason the group
exists. Everyone has their own opinion, but there is a huge difference
between this and the replys it is generating as opposed to constructive
criticism. Go form your own group such as alt.tv.tiny-toons.suck if all
yoo want to do is bitch.
Lynx
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Dondi Buttgen
: Besides the fact that this is obvious flame bait, I find it in extremely
: exists. Everyone has their own opinion, but there is a huge difference
: between this and the replys it is generating as opposed to constructive
: criticism. Go form your own group such as alt.tv.tiny-toons.suck if all
: yoo want to do is bitch.
: Lynx
Just wanted to say , that was not a personal attack on anyone, but rather
an attempt at discuraging this type of posting in this group. Yes I know
that's a bit hypocrytical to flame about not wanting flames.
Lynx
Jared Jeavons Quinert
Bear in mind that a few of the Spumco staff used to work on TTA. From what
I read (WCK R&S special), most that had worked on TTA weren't happy when they
left, so this may have something to do with how heavily he came down on the
show. I can see his point about TTA, but a lot of episodes are funny, even
if they are scripted. I'm yet to find someone who hasn't enjoyed me showing
them HISMV. I love Ren and Stimpy, but to portray Tiny Toons in the way he
has really makes me wonder if he's seen Captain Planet. Or if he knows that
some of his Spumco friends worked on the Sonic the Hedgehog cartoon....
While I'm mentioning it, is Captain Planet the worst cartoon ever made? I
thought Glo-Worms and My Little Pony sucked, but Captain Planet succeeds in
being bad even without a product to push. Oh, and Kath Souci should stick
to doing Fifi.
Jared
--
'Come on everbody, let's do the hustle.'
Ron Bauerle
>Dondi Buttgen (ly...@vertigo.helix.net) wrote:
>: Besides the fact that this is obvious flame bait, I find it in extremely
>: poor netiquette to go to a fan group and trash the reason the group
>: exists. Everyone has their own opinion, but there is a huge difference
>: between this and the replys it is generating as opposed to constructive
>: criticism. Go form your own group such as alt.tv.tiny-toons.suck if all
>: yoo want to do is bitch.
>Just wanted to say , that was not a personal attack on anyone, but rather
>an attempt at discuraging this type of posting in this group. Yes I know
>that's a bit hypocrytical to flame about not wanting flames.
Request clarification: are you referring to my original post, or
ngsippel's flame of TTA provoked by my comments on R&S? I certainly
did not mean to flame TTA with my post; I just thought people would be
interested in what "the great Kricfalusi" had to say about it.
But I hope ngsippel's cross-post of his flaming reply into the R&S
groups won't bring a bunch of flames in here... (although I'm not going
to help things with my follow-up to his flame...)
Survey time: should stuff like that be kept out of here to avoid
flames, or be posted to "stimulate" discussion and/or defense of TTA?
RDB
Ron Bauerle
point in attracting any more flames than necessary...)
In article 26372@miavx1, ngsi...@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu writes:
>In article <CrM3B...@crdnns.crd.ge.com>, bau...@cs690-3.erie.ge.com
(Ron Bauerle) writes:
>> This may provoke another flamewar, but at least it isn't about TTBS...
>
>Well, let's try to talk with our brains, not our hearts.
Since everything in this thread should be prefaced with IMHO, what do
brains have to do with it? I.e., these (flames) are emotional more
than intellectual...
>> This from somebody who came up with stuff like "Son of Stimpy", which
>> IMVNSHO is a better "supreme parody of all that's bad about modern
>> cartoons"... Real quality writing there, yup yup yup...
>
>Son of Stimpy is a tragic cartoon about a father and son who were separated
>from the beginning. It's ironic I write this on Father's Day because SOS
>is a story which most fathers can relate if they are in the middle of an
>ugly divorce with a family with a young child. SOS has Stinky (Stimpy's
>child) find his father (Stimpy) at the time when he's already grown.
>The point of SOS is not to be funny but to be a touching Christmas story.
The only reason I'm even replying to this flame is to point out
something to readers of a.t.tt and r.a.a who may have not seen much
R&S; I was willing to admit that I may have gotten the episode title
wrong (I was thinking of the one where we got to see animated
flatulence (actually, it was closer to defecation)), and went to the
trouble of popping into the R&S groups and guess what I found:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The Not-So-Official Ren & Stimpy Episode Guide
Written By: Nick Sayer
Cowritten and Edited By: Norman Sippel
Son Of Stimpy (aka "Stimpy's First Fart" or "Stimpy's First Trouser
Cough" or "Have Yourself A Stinky Little Christmas")
While watching TV, Stimpy passes his first fart. After asking Ren what
happened, Ren calls him an "eediot." Desperately, Stimpy goes searching for
"Stinky" the fart in the house and the "Naked City." (We even get to see
Stimpy talking to his "magic nose goblins" about his missing friend.) Will
Stimpy find his prodigal son? Will Stimpy overcome his depression? (Stimpy
must be depressed because he didn't want to watch his favorite shows, "Muddy
Mudskipper" and "Commander Hoek & Cadet Stimpy.") And will Ren get over the
smell of this show? :)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'll let everybody form their own opinion of the correlation (or lack
thereof) between these two descriptions of SOS...
>> RDB
>
>What? You are afraid to give your name? =O)
No, I'm lazy (and/or impersonal - take your pick); that's how I sign
all of my posts (.sigs waste bandwidth and get boring after a while
too...). But if it will make you happy:
Ronald David Bauerle
Chris Baird
ly...@vertigo.helix.net (Dondi Buttgen) writes:
> Besides the fact that this is obvious flame bait, I find it in extremely
> poor netiquette to go to a fan group and trash the reason the group
> exists. Everyone has their own opinion, but there is a huge difference
> between this and the replys it is generating as opposed to constructive
> criticism.
So who's at fault here?
Once upon a time it was worth-while attempting to rat out
Usenetters interests with their thoughful countering to some
critical flaming (that's what attracted me to alt.tv.simpsons
several years ago) but Thought has vacated alt.tv.* I'm now only
hanging around for the a.b.p.c announcements... (I don't get that
'group directly here, so I have to scan.)
--
Chris Baird,, <c892...@cs.newcastle.edu.au> @}-`-,--- Fifi La Fume
ngsi...@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu
> In article <wbbCrM...@netcom.com> w...@netcom.com (Will Bell) writes:
>>In a previous article, chi...@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu (robert chirico ) wrote:
>>>So, if he wants to dislike the show, let him. Can't please everybody.
A toonster with sense I see! You are right!!!! =O)
>>The point was it's a little hard to respect his notion of "bad animation"
>>or "bad writing" after seeing some of the episodes of "Ren & Stimpy".
>
> Well, I've never liked REN & STIMPY, and I never had any respect for
> Kricfalusi. So if he hates TTA, I figure that just certifies that I have
> good taste for liking it. B-)
I hate to burst your bubble, Robert and with all due respect, Tiny Toons
was the only kind of show Warner Bros. was going to buy when it wanted
to restart its animation department. They wanted their own version of
"The Flintstone Kids" and "Muppet Babies." They wanted another Looney Tunes,
but alas, it's not.
> (Just when I didn't think a cartoon can get dumber than R&S, than BEAVIS
> AND BUTT-HEAD comes along. Will wonders never cease? At least the toons
> ran over all four of them in the Spring Break Special... B-)
Beavis and Butthead is cool if you understand what's behind the show.
John K. and Mike Judge are real good friends and both hate Nick/MTV/Viacom.
R&S and B&B were run over, but the guy who created them, David Kuhn, has
emailed me already. He loves R&S and B&B, and we have had several long
discussions. Next time: We watch "Wakko's Invention" where Buster gets
eaten by a fish! =O)
Stay "Classic First and Second Season Ren & Stimpy'd Tooned!"
Po Shan Cheah
Jared Jeavons Quinert <qui...@ironbark.ucnv.edu.au> wrote:
>While I'm mentioning it, is Captain Planet the worst cartoon ever made? I
>thought Glo-Worms and My Little Pony sucked, but Captain Planet succeeds in
>being bad even without a product to push. Oh, and Kath Souci should stick
>to doing Fifi.
Personally, I wouldn't make a judgement until I've sat through several
episodes each of Widget, Twinkle, the mini-cartoons in Mad Scientist,
and 2 Stupid Dogs. It depends on your tastes but at least one of those
would make Captain Planet look good by comparison.
By the way, has Freeze come up with any new TTA t-shirts yet? I
haven't checked in quite a long time.
--
------------
| Po Shan Cheah Columbia University SEAS |
| ch...@cs.columbia.edu New York, NY |
pch...@nyx.cs.du.edu ------------
Juan F. Lara
Ron Bauerle <bau...@cs690-3.erie.ge.com> wrote:
>Request clarification: are you referring to my original post, or
>ngsippel's flame of TTA provoked by my comments on R&S? I certainly
Ronald, I don't think Norman Sippel's letter was a flame. I thought
most of his article was very well written and he avoided being mean-spirited
or condescending to tiny-tooners, something tiny-tooners haven't always done
to fans of other shows. He made his points about why he didn't like TTA and
why he liked R&S and other shows. Frankly your reply was more inflammatory
than his.
-Juan F. Lara
"This letter's over. Go do your homework."