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Jerry C. Howard III
Dec 1, 2011, 8:56:18 PM12/1/11
to
Wonding if someone has a solution. I line on a farm in a rural area.
I don't have cable nor want to pay for dish tv. We have all the
stations I would ever want to watch within 30 miles of us.
I get all the stations in HD except one, which is the Fox station. The
guy at Fox, his name is Alastair Hamilton alastair...@fox.com,
won't let our local station broadcast the Fox shows in HD because the
station is called a dot-two. We get NBC, CBS, ABC, PBS, everything
else in HD, but not Fox. What we do get is an HD picture with an SD
frame in it, with a letterboxed HD picture inside that.
I stopped at the station and their chief engineer showed me a folder
of memos and emails instructing the station to do it this way, and
they have no choice.
So my question is, does anyone know if this is happening anywhere else
in the county? Would an e-mail campaign to Mr Hamilton from all the
viewers perhaps change things? Is there anything I can do to complain
to the FCC or my congressman? At the least, is there a way I can
work around this so I can get my ball games in HD?
Jer
robinlos
Dec 1, 2011, 6:10:32 PM12/1/11
to
On Dec 1, 9:56 pm, Jerry C. Howard III
station's transmitter. Where, geographically, are you?
<jerryc.REMOVE.how...@REMOVEgmail.com> wrote:
> Wonding if someone has a solution. I line on a farm in a rural area.
> I don't have cable nor want to pay for dish tv. We have all the
> stations I would ever want to watch within 30 miles of us.
>
> I get all the stations in HD except one, which is the Fox station. The
> guy at Fox, his name is Alastair Hamilton alastair.hamil...@fox.com,
> Wonding if someone has a solution. I line on a farm in a rural area.
> I don't have cable nor want to pay for dish tv. We have all the
> stations I would ever want to watch within 30 miles of us.
>
> I get all the stations in HD except one, which is the Fox station. The
> won't let our local station broadcast the Fox shows in HD because the
> station is called a dot-two. We get NBC, CBS, ABC, PBS, everything
> else in HD, but not Fox. What we do get is an HD picture with an SD
> frame in it, with a letterboxed HD picture inside that.
>
> I stopped at the station and their chief engineer showed me a folder
> of memos and emails instructing the station to do it this way, and
> they have no choice.
>
> So my question is, does anyone know if this is happening anywhere else
> in the county? Would an e-mail campaign to Mr Hamilton from all the
> viewers perhaps change things? Is there anything I can do to complain
> to the FCC or my congressman? At the least, is there a way I can
> work around this so I can get my ball games in HD?
>
> Jer
What it sounds like to me is the Fox station is piggybacked on another
> station is called a dot-two. We get NBC, CBS, ABC, PBS, everything
> else in HD, but not Fox. What we do get is an HD picture with an SD
> frame in it, with a letterboxed HD picture inside that.
>
> I stopped at the station and their chief engineer showed me a folder
> of memos and emails instructing the station to do it this way, and
> they have no choice.
>
> So my question is, does anyone know if this is happening anywhere else
> in the county? Would an e-mail campaign to Mr Hamilton from all the
> viewers perhaps change things? Is there anything I can do to complain
> to the FCC or my congressman? At the least, is there a way I can
> work around this so I can get my ball games in HD?
>
> Jer
station's transmitter. Where, geographically, are you?
Mikepier
Dec 1, 2011, 9:56:27 PM12/1/11
to
On Dec 1, 8:56 pm, Jerry C. Howard III
<jerryc.REMOVE.how...@REMOVEgmail.com> wrote:
> Wonding if someone has a solution. I line on a farm in a rural area.
> I don't have cable nor want to pay for dish tv. We have all the
> stations I would ever want to watch within 30 miles of us.
>
> I get all the stations in HD except one, which is the Fox station. The
> guy at Fox, his name is Alastair Hamilton alastair.hamil...@fox.com,
> Wonding if someone has a solution. I line on a farm in a rural area.
> I don't have cable nor want to pay for dish tv. We have all the
> stations I would ever want to watch within 30 miles of us.
>
> I get all the stations in HD except one, which is the Fox station. The
> won't let our local station broadcast the Fox shows in HD because the
> station is called a dot-two. We get NBC, CBS, ABC, PBS, everything
> else in HD, but not Fox. What we do get is an HD picture with an SD
> frame in it, with a letterboxed HD picture inside that.
>
> I stopped at the station and their chief engineer showed me a folder
> of memos and emails instructing the station to do it this way, and
> they have no choice.
>
> So my question is, does anyone know if this is happening anywhere else
> in the county? Would an e-mail campaign to Mr Hamilton from all the
> viewers perhaps change things? Is there anything I can do to complain
> to the FCC or my congressman? At the least, is there a way I can
> work around this so I can get my ball games in HD?
>
> Jer
What FOX affiliate are you talking about?
> station is called a dot-two. We get NBC, CBS, ABC, PBS, everything
> else in HD, but not Fox. What we do get is an HD picture with an SD
> frame in it, with a letterboxed HD picture inside that.
>
> I stopped at the station and their chief engineer showed me a folder
> of memos and emails instructing the station to do it this way, and
> they have no choice.
>
> So my question is, does anyone know if this is happening anywhere else
> in the county? Would an e-mail campaign to Mr Hamilton from all the
> viewers perhaps change things? Is there anything I can do to complain
> to the FCC or my congressman? At the least, is there a way I can
> work around this so I can get my ball games in HD?
>
> Jer
G-squared
Dec 1, 2011, 10:52:10 PM12/1/11
to
On Dec 1, 5:56 pm, Jerry C. Howard III
as 11.1 (KTTV-DT 11 actually on ch 11) but on 2 different carriers.
The 2 sub channels are only SD like yours. A "dot 2" implies there is
a "dot 1". Is there a possibility of getting that? As the others
asked, what market are you in? Zipcode will do.
G²
<jerryc.REMOVE.how...@REMOVEgmail.com> wrote:
> Wonding if someone has a solution. I line on a farm in a rural area.
> I don't have cable nor want to pay for dish tv. We have all the
> stations I would ever want to watch within 30 miles of us.
>
> I get all the stations in HD except one, which is the Fox station. The
> guy at Fox, his name is Alastair Hamilton alastair.hamil...@fox.com,
> Wonding if someone has a solution. I line on a farm in a rural area.
> I don't have cable nor want to pay for dish tv. We have all the
> stations I would ever want to watch within 30 miles of us.
>
> I get all the stations in HD except one, which is the Fox station. The
> won't let our local station broadcast the Fox shows in HD because the
> station is called a dot-two. We get NBC, CBS, ABC, PBS, everything
> else in HD, but not Fox. What we do get is an HD picture with an SD
> frame in it, with a letterboxed HD picture inside that.
>
> I stopped at the station and their chief engineer showed me a folder
> of memos and emails instructing the station to do it this way, and
> they have no choice.
>
> So my question is, does anyone know if this is happening anywhere else
> in the county? Would an e-mail campaign to Mr Hamilton from all the
> viewers perhaps change things? Is there anything I can do to complain
> to the FCC or my congressman? At the least, is there a way I can
> work around this so I can get my ball games in HD?
>
> Jer
It's happening in LA where Fox 11.2 and 11.3 are the same programming
> station is called a dot-two. We get NBC, CBS, ABC, PBS, everything
> else in HD, but not Fox. What we do get is an HD picture with an SD
> frame in it, with a letterboxed HD picture inside that.
>
> I stopped at the station and their chief engineer showed me a folder
> of memos and emails instructing the station to do it this way, and
> they have no choice.
>
> So my question is, does anyone know if this is happening anywhere else
> in the county? Would an e-mail campaign to Mr Hamilton from all the
> viewers perhaps change things? Is there anything I can do to complain
> to the FCC or my congressman? At the least, is there a way I can
> work around this so I can get my ball games in HD?
>
> Jer
as 11.1 (KTTV-DT 11 actually on ch 11) but on 2 different carriers.
The 2 sub channels are only SD like yours. A "dot 2" implies there is
a "dot 1". Is there a possibility of getting that? As the others
asked, what market are you in? Zipcode will do.
G²
Jim Wilkins
Dec 2, 2011, 7:32:49 AM12/2/11
to
"G-squared" <stra...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:43d8d5ab-1bf8-4c76...@x7g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 1, 5:56 pm, Jerry C. Howard III
<jerryc.REMOVE.how...@REMOVEgmail.com> wrote:
> ...>
<jerryc.REMOVE.how...@REMOVEgmail.com> wrote:
> So my question is, does anyone know if this is happening anywhere else
> in the county? Would an e-mail campaign to Mr Hamilton from all the
> viewers perhaps change things? Is there anything I can do to complain
> to the FCC or my congressman? At the least, is there a way I can
> work around this so I can get my ball games in HD?
>
> Jer
It's happening in LA where Fox 11.2 and 11.3 are the same programming
as 11.1 (KTTV-DT 11 actually on ch 11) but on 2 different carriers.
The 2 sub channels are only SD like yours. A "dot 2" implies there is
a "dot 1". Is there a possibility of getting that? As the others
asked, what market are you in? Zipcode will do.
G²
Broadcasters have to give up resolution to transmit more subchannels.
> in the county? Would an e-mail campaign to Mr Hamilton from all the
> viewers perhaps change things? Is there anything I can do to complain
> to the FCC or my congressman? At the least, is there a way I can
> work around this so I can get my ball games in HD?
>
> Jer
It's happening in LA where Fox 11.2 and 11.3 are the same programming
as 11.1 (KTTV-DT 11 actually on ch 11) but on 2 different carriers.
The 2 sub channels are only SD like yours. A "dot 2" implies there is
a "dot 1". Is there a possibility of getting that? As the others
asked, what market are you in? Zipcode will do.
G²
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_subchannel
jsw
Bill Gill
Dec 2, 2011, 9:23:34 AM12/2/11
to
station that doesn't have an HD channel. It has 5 SD channels
instead. That doesn't bother me, since I don't watch any of
them. Of course they are all transmitting SD programs, so
they don't have to be letter boxed.
Bill
Kimba W Lion
Dec 2, 2011, 10:41:07 AM12/2/11
to
Jerry C. Howard III <jerryc.REM...@REMOVEgmail.com> wrote:
>So my question is, does anyone know if this is happening anywhere else
>in the county?
Subchannels, like x.2, use up the available bits in a digital TV stream. The
>So my question is, does anyone know if this is happening anywhere else
>in the county?
station in question does not want to degrade their main HD signal. What they
could do, however, is broadcast the Fox channel in anamorphic widescreen SD.
This would only use up a few more bits, and it would give you a full
widescreen picture for Fox programs, albeit only 720x480 resolution (or maybe
704x480). WRC in Washington DC handles their .2 channel this way.
>Would an e-mail campaign to Mr Hamilton from all the
>viewers perhaps change things?
>Is there anything I can do to complain
>to the FCC or my congressman?
>At the least, is there a way I can
>work around this so I can get my ball games in HD?
getting, at sites such as tvfool.com or antennaweb.org.
Jerry C. Howard III
Dec 4, 2011, 1:58:59 PM12/4/11
to
I'm near Findlay, Ohio. The station is WLIO in Lima. The other Fox
affiliates are too far away from us and I've only seen one of the on a
rare occasion and it wouldn't lock in. It is on a .2. What really is
maddening is when the station is not Fox programming they broadcast in
HD. It's only DURING the Fox programming on at night or the games on
the weekend.
Has anyone had any luck in complaining to the FCC, Congress, or
calling their advertisers to get them to change their ways?
affiliates are too far away from us and I've only seen one of the on a
rare occasion and it wouldn't lock in. It is on a .2. What really is
maddening is when the station is not Fox programming they broadcast in
HD. It's only DURING the Fox programming on at night or the games on
the weekend.
Has anyone had any luck in complaining to the FCC, Congress, or
calling their advertisers to get them to change their ways?
joe d
Dec 4, 2011, 3:28:44 PM12/4/11
to
On Dec 4, 12:58 pm, Jerry C. Howard III
To the O.P. The question of dot 2 or dot anything is just a red
herring. If Fox itself is the
problem, it would have to to with whatever royalties the network is
being paid for rebroadcast.
If you really want HD, a campaign of letters from viewers might do it,
provided that there are
anough viewers interested. The FCC, congress, etc have no authority
in this area.
One question: Are you really concerned with _resolution_ as such, that
is, with the number of dots
you get on the screen, or are you just concerned about the size of the
picture as displayed?
Most digital TVs have a zoom feature that could make the picture
bigger, should you so desire.
(Full disclosure: I am one of those who is old enough that I cannot
tell the difference between SD and HD,
even on a relative's TV that is as big as a small cow and probably
cost as much.)
Joe D.
herring. If Fox itself is the
problem, it would have to to with whatever royalties the network is
being paid for rebroadcast.
If you really want HD, a campaign of letters from viewers might do it,
provided that there are
anough viewers interested. The FCC, congress, etc have no authority
in this area.
One question: Are you really concerned with _resolution_ as such, that
is, with the number of dots
you get on the screen, or are you just concerned about the size of the
picture as displayed?
Most digital TVs have a zoom feature that could make the picture
bigger, should you so desire.
(Full disclosure: I am one of those who is old enough that I cannot
tell the difference between SD and HD,
even on a relative's TV that is as big as a small cow and probably
cost as much.)
Joe D.
robinlos
Dec 4, 2011, 4:06:37 PM12/4/11
to
On Dec 4, 2:58 pm, Jerry C. Howard III
> >station's transmitter. Where, geographically, are you?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
The station claims it is transmitting 2 750p programs. NBC on .1 and
Fox part time on .2 and Mynetwork part time also on .2. I'm not sure
what is going on. If you think you want to try, there may be some way
of recieving another FOX affiliate.
>
> - Show quoted text -
The station claims it is transmitting 2 750p programs. NBC on .1 and
Fox part time on .2 and Mynetwork part time also on .2. I'm not sure
what is going on. If you think you want to try, there may be some way
of recieving another FOX affiliate.
robinlos
Dec 4, 2011, 4:23:01 PM12/4/11
to
>
> - Show quoted text -
Without knowing any more than I do, I'd guess you could recieve the
> - Show quoted text -
Toledo FOX station. Is called channel 36, its on channel 46, and it is
possible a simple bowtie outside aimed at it will get it.
Wes Newell
Dec 5, 2011, 10:06:09 AM12/5/11
to
On Sun, 04 Dec 2011 13:58:59 -0500, Jerry C. Howard III wrote:
> I'm near Findlay, Ohio. The station is WLIO in Lima. The other Fox
> affiliates are too far away from us and I've only seen one of the on a
> rare occasion and it wouldn't lock in.
With a halfway decent antenna system, you should be able to get all the
> I'm near Findlay, Ohio. The station is WLIO in Lima. The other Fox
> affiliates are too far away from us and I've only seen one of the on a
> rare occasion and it wouldn't lock in.
Toledo stations, including Fox.
G-squared
Dec 5, 2011, 11:58:47 PM12/5/11
to
On Sun, 04 Dec 2011 13:58:59 -0500, Jerry C. Howard III wrote:
>
> I'm near Findlay, Ohio. The station is WLIO in Lima. The other
Fox
> affiliates are too far away from us and I've only seen one of the
on a
> rare occasion and it wouldn't lock in.
>
How much you want to spend? 50+ miles should be doable and maybe not
>
> I'm near Findlay, Ohio. The station is WLIO in Lima. The other
Fox
> affiliates are too far away from us and I've only seen one of the
on a
> rare occasion and it wouldn't lock in.
>
even too bad on the finances. It would depend a lot on your exact
location whether you're on a hill or in a hole. When I lived in
Whitewater Wisconsin I was midway between Milwaukee and Madison (each
45-50 miles) and with a rotator properly aimed the signals were
excellent but I was on a small hill. You should check Antennweb to get
their take on it. At 50 miles I'd give it a go if I didn't need a big
tower. It's sure worth looking into.
G²
me again
Dec 6, 2011, 9:26:23 AM12/6/11
to
Jim Wilkins wrote:
> Broadcasters have to give up resolution to transmit more subchannels.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_subchannel
Do you know if the broadcasters have to
> Broadcasters have to give up resolution to transmit more subchannels.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_subchannel
'give notice' to the FCC as to how they are
using their bandwidth? In other words, can they
for example, change from 2 SD channels to 1 HD channel as they like?
Stephen H. Fischer
Dec 6, 2011, 8:28:43 PM12/6/11
to
Hi,
I strongly don't think so, no one has ever said anything on the AVS threads
that watch the FCC actions very closely.
Lots of close FCC watchers on this thread:
The official final DTV Table Of Allotments-channel change thread - AVS Forum
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=823166&goto=newpost
SHF
"me again" <rick0....@gmail.spamless> wrote in message
news:jbl8mf$2u9$3...@dont-email.me...
I strongly don't think so, no one has ever said anything on the AVS threads
that watch the FCC actions very closely.
Lots of close FCC watchers on this thread:
The official final DTV Table Of Allotments-channel change thread - AVS Forum
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=823166&goto=newpost
SHF
"me again" <rick0....@gmail.spamless> wrote in message
news:jbl8mf$2u9$3...@dont-email.me...
Del Mibbler
Dec 6, 2011, 11:39:14 PM12/6/11
to
Jerry C. Howard III <jerryc.REM...@REMOVEgmail.com> wrote (in
part):
>I'm near Findlay, Ohio. The station is WLIO in Lima. The other Fox
>affiliates are too far away from us and I've only seen one of the on a
>rare occasion and it wouldn't lock in.
Plugging zipcode 45840 for Findlay into TVFool, it looks like Fox
affiliate WUPW on real channel 46 is line-of-sight at about 44 miles
and should be about 3 dB stronger than WLIO. Different direction, of
course.
Del Mibbler
part):
>I'm near Findlay, Ohio. The station is WLIO in Lima. The other Fox
>affiliates are too far away from us and I've only seen one of the on a
>rare occasion and it wouldn't lock in.
affiliate WUPW on real channel 46 is line-of-sight at about 44 miles
and should be about 3 dB stronger than WLIO. Different direction, of
course.
Del Mibbler
Jerry C. Howard III
Dec 9, 2011, 7:16:50 PM12/9/11
to
On Sun, 4 Dec 2011 12:28:44 -0800 (PST), joe d <joe...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>One question: Are you really concerned with _resolution_ as such, that
>is, with the number of dots
>you get on the screen, or are you just concerned about the size of the
>picture as displayed?
I just want to watch the frigging ball game in HD as it's suppose to
be televised. From what I can tell, Fox is strong-arming the station
for extra compensation money, and until they pony up, nobody gets HD
in our corner of the world. I really thing that sucks.
Jer
wrote:
>One question: Are you really concerned with _resolution_ as such, that
>is, with the number of dots
>you get on the screen, or are you just concerned about the size of the
>picture as displayed?
be televised. From what I can tell, Fox is strong-arming the station
for extra compensation money, and until they pony up, nobody gets HD
in our corner of the world. I really thing that sucks.
Jer
Jerry C. Howard III
Dec 9, 2011, 7:18:42 PM12/9/11
to
On Sun, 4 Dec 2011 13:06:37 -0800 (PST), robinlos
distant.
Jer
>The station claims it is transmitting 2 750p programs. NBC on .1 and
>Fox part time on .2 and Mynetwork part time also on .2. I'm not sure
>what is going on. If you think you want to try, there may be some way
>of recieving another FOX affiliate.
Can't get any other Fox out here. All the other stations are too
>Fox part time on .2 and Mynetwork part time also on .2. I'm not sure
>what is going on. If you think you want to try, there may be some way
>of recieving another FOX affiliate.
distant.
Jer
Jerry C. Howard III
Dec 9, 2011, 7:23:12 PM12/9/11
to
On Tue, 06 Dec 2011 23:39:14 -0500, Del Mibbler <mibbler@large> wrote:
>Plugging zipcode 45840 for Findlay into TVFool, it looks like Fox
>affiliate WUPW on real channel 46 is line-of-sight at about 44 miles
>and should be about 3 dB stronger than WLIO. Different direction, of
>course.
>
>Del Mibbler
WUPW has issues to the south from Toledo. Most of the Toledo stations
>Plugging zipcode 45840 for Findlay into TVFool, it looks like Fox
>affiliate WUPW on real channel 46 is line-of-sight at about 44 miles
>and should be about 3 dB stronger than WLIO. Different direction, of
>course.
>
>Del Mibbler
are pretty sucky down here. We get Lima's stations and Bowling Green
real well. WUPW shows a 30 on the signal meter. WLIO shows a 90.
WOHL is a 75 (other from Lima), and WBGU is a 100. I'm using a corner
reflector at 27 feet. When we do get WUPW it will cut out for 30
seconds or more.
Jer
robinlos
Dec 9, 2011, 7:51:42 PM12/9/11
to
On Dec 9, 7:23 pm, Jerry C. Howard III
Its possible the 27 feet is in the twilight zone for Toledo. . If you
have the will to try, drop the antenna a few feet and see if an
improvement pops up. I had a low power DTV UHF station that I could
only recieve at ONE height. Once the antenna was fixed there, I had NO
problems with it. Recieving over the air DTV requires the viewer to
write his own manual. Every situation will be different. One more
thing. Raw signal strength is not that valuable an indicator of an
good picture for UHF DTV. A steady 30 will be far more valuable than a
varying strength much higher.
have the will to try, drop the antenna a few feet and see if an
improvement pops up. I had a low power DTV UHF station that I could
only recieve at ONE height. Once the antenna was fixed there, I had NO
problems with it. Recieving over the air DTV requires the viewer to
write his own manual. Every situation will be different. One more
thing. Raw signal strength is not that valuable an indicator of an
good picture for UHF DTV. A steady 30 will be far more valuable than a
varying strength much higher.
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