tollans and building there own stargate?
Ciaran
because there never was one on this planet. how will it work if it isnt a
member of the stargate network? (you can buy a phone in the shop but its no
good unless your connected to the system).
200...@wongfaye.com
: because there never was one on this planet. how will it work if it isnt a
: member of the stargate network? (you can buy a phone in the shop but its no
: good unless your connected to the system).
works just like the cell phone cloners
Ciaran
news:e6qQ8.2552$54.1...@typhoon.sonic.net...
im not explaining myself right. all the gates have set symbols on them to
connect to other stargates in the network. how can this one just be added
in. with cell phones you just add a number to the central directory but from
what we have been told there is no central 'phonebook' of stargate
addresses.
im just starting to confuse myself now :)
MadiHolmes
>im not explaining myself right. all the gates have set symbols on them to
>connect to other stargates in the network. how can this one just be added
>in. with cell phones you just add a number to the central directory but from
>what we have been told there is no central 'phonebook' of stargate
>addresses.
>
>im just starting to confuse myself now :)
>
Perhaps they just hacked into the system. I don't know. Overrode another
stargate's coordinates, took a DHD from another gate, and implanted it into
their own, I'm sure there are other ways.
Madi"Reach out and touch someone"Holmes
Mark Jones
The same way, one assumes, that we got _our_ stargate to work even
without a DHD. We hacked into the gate network with a earth-built
computer. The Tollan can presumably a better job with their superior
tech base.
(If you go by the "draw three lines to define a point in space" dialing
theory from the original movie you don't _need_ a network. The gate
will simply establish a connection with any gate that happens to be in
that location.)
--
Mark Jones
"This is a matter of opinion--I disagree."
"Are you kidding? This is USENET! Two men enter, one man leaves!"
--from a usenet discussion
Mark Jones
Maybe it's how the network _works_. That is, when the Ancients were
building the gate network, they'd drop a gate on a new world and dial up
an existing gate...and the network would automatically add that address
to the system.
As for the symbols, they're supposedly just star constellations. If you
pick the right set of constellations, you can "point" the gate to any
point in the sky. Get close enough to a working stargate, at that's the
gate that accepts the connection.
gizmo_goddard
Because they're way smater than we are :-) Obviously they understand the
gate technology a lot better than we do. After all, the Tollans were able to
use the address to the Nox homeworld to send them a message in "The Nox".
__!_!__
Gizmo
Mark Amparo
determine points in space.
You can only gate to another place if there is a gate there. The Stargate
produces a wormhole and directs it to the co-ordinates specified, if there
isn't a gate in that direction, then no wormhole will form.
Since the Tollan are a far more advanced race, and they knew how to
calculate the distance between heavenly bodies, then there is no reason why
they would not be able to make their own Stargate.
Since the original Tollan world had a stargate, being such an advanced race,
they would've analysed their Stargate and learnt how it worked.
Nopel
>Ciaran wrote:
>> in one of the eps the tollans tell them that they built there own stargate
>> because there never was one on this planet. how will it work if it isnt a
>> member of the stargate network? (you can buy a phone in the shop but its no
>> good unless your connected to the system).
>(If you go by the "draw three lines to define a point in space" dialing
>theory from the original movie you don't _need_ a network. The gate
>will simply establish a connection with any gate that happens to be in
>that location.)
Exactly. When you dial a sequence, the gate just tries to connect to
whatever gate happens to be at the coordinates dialled. If there's no gate
there, there's no wormhole.
We've seen this in several episodes:
In 'Within the Serpent's Grasp,' the Goa'uld's stargate stopped working when
they left its original position, but in 'The Serpent's Lair,' the gate
worked again when it was near the Earth's coordinates.
In 'Exodus,' the Tok'ra were planning to take their gate with them to their
new base, and it presumably would have worked, just with a new address.
So the Tollan probably just had to calculate the gate sequence from their
new homeworld's coordinates.
Nopel
Ciaran
when
> they left its original position, but in 'The Serpent's Lair,' the gate
> worked again when it was near the Earth's coordinates.
but should the gate not have worked on the ship then if the stargate only
uses star constellations etc and 6 points to plot the position. surely the
fact that they are on a planet or a ship shouldnt matter.
or am i making any sense?....
Volin
"Ciaran" <cfol...@eircom.net> wrote in message
news:HbMQ8.2742$vB.1...@news.indigo.ie...
IIRC the problem was that a SG rescue team tried to gate in but they
couldn't get through (because the gate had moved). If the gate code was for
attached to a gate rather then a location in space then the code would have
worked.
Mark Amparo
is travelling at several times the speed of light!!! It's point of origin is
constantly changing at a very rapid rate!
NoRemorse
"Mark Amparo" <mam...@pacific.net.au> wrote in message
news:LFAQ8.4123$06.5...@nasal.pacific.net.au...
Tollans had some help from the Nox I would imagine.
Mark Nobles
Not really, considering the distances they are travelling. The vibration
of the ship would have more effect on the pointing accuracy than the
translation.
Talyn2k1
you can't dial a gate on a ship that's just floating in the middle of
nowhere.
I seem to remember a mentioning of mass, magnetic fields (like a planet's)
and subspace fields.
The reason it worked when Apophis' ship was in orbit of Earth (and Thor's
ship was heading down to Earth) is because the Stargates probably managed to
utilise whatever quality a planet has that they require to form a wormhole.
But again, I am almost completely sure that you need some sort of large
mass like a planet or moon to use the Stargate.
Anyone wanna back me up on this?
"Mark Nobles" <cmn-n...@houston.rr.com> wrote in message
news:1fe83ra.18nveg3yd19b8N%cmn-n...@houston.rr.com...
Ciaran
news:MyCR8.1502$h82....@news8-gui.server.ntli.net...
sounds like a good theory but we cant be sure. i suppose thats what keeps us
all interested in the show - the unanswered questions, the wonder, the
amazement....
AFT-L FAQ Maintainer
A SHIP MOVES....
For those who NEVER SAW THE MOVIE....
You need 6 points to locate a destination in a 3 dimensional object....
Since a SHIP MOVES, it will never be in the same spot, so it is impossible
to use the same 6 points to locate it.....
However, as we have seen in Redemption Part 2, it is possible to open a
wormhole, then move the STARGATE and keep the wormhole open.....
I wonder what this would do if you move the STARGATE to another location
where there is another gate, and someone trying to dial that gate would then
get a Busy Signal?
"Ciaran" <cfol...@eircom.net> wrote in message
news:DbMR8.3410$vB.2...@news.indigo.ie...
200...@wongfaye.com
: A SHIP MOVES....
: For those who NEVER SAW THE MOVIE....
: You need 6 points to locate a destination in a 3 dimensional object....
: Since a SHIP MOVES, it will never be in the same spot, so it is impossible
: to use the same 6 points to locate it.....
: However, as we have seen in Redemption Part 2, it is possible to open a
: wormhole, then move the STARGATE and keep the wormhole open.....
i'm betting that it only works when in vicinity of the star it was orbiting
when opened
i bet there is only allowed one gate per star system
the gate that was moved was only mooved closer to its base star
Soupladel
reason the gate didn't work when the ship had moved, was because it was not
in orbit of a planet/Solar system, and as all gate symbols are star
constellations/Solar systems your point of reference would have to be a
solar system!
Moving ship = no permanent point of origin
back to the tolans building their own gate, as long as the system had a
stargate at some point then this would probably be ok, as that solar system
would already be represented in the gate network somehow, most likely used
as a co-ordinate to determine the position of another system!
think of it almost like having a number system based on 49 (I think that is
how many symbols there are on a DHD, could be wrong), as decimal is based on
10 i.e 0-9 if you think of a gate address as a telephone number being a
possible combination of 49 x 49 x 49 x 49 x 49 x 49 x 49 x 49 leaving a
possible 33232930569601 gate addresses, and that without even using the
seventh or ninth chevrons!
<200...@wongfaye.com> wrote in message
news:i15S8.7141$54.2...@typhoon.sonic.net...
Ciaran
"Soupladel" <Soup...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:AttS8.9690$jW.70...@news-text.cableinet.net...
> I can't remember the episode it was established in, but they said that the
> reason the gate didn't work when the ship had moved, was because it was
not
> in orbit of a planet/Solar system, and as all gate symbols are star
> constellations/Solar systems your point of reference would have to be a
> solar system!
>
> Moving ship = no permanent point of origin
>
> back to the tolans building their own gate, as long as the system had a
> stargate at some point then this would probably be ok, as that solar
system
> would already be represented in the gate network somehow, most likely used
> as a co-ordinate to determine the position of another system!
>
> think of it almost like having a number system based on 49 (I think that
is
> how many symbols there are on a DHD, could be wrong), as decimal is based
on
> 10 i.e 0-9 if you think of a gate address as a telephone number being a
> possible combination of 49 x 49 x 49 x 49 x 49 x 49 x 49 x 49 leaving a
> possible 33232930569601 gate addresses, and that without even using the
> seventh or ninth chevrons!
[there are 39 symbols]
so this means that you cant have a stargate on earth and a stargate on mars?
what if a system had 2 inhabitable planets? i assume they would have the
whole russian/sgc stargate crossover prob?
just a thought..
Bob
<cfol...@eircom.net> wrote:
They also said they had help from the Nox. I love daniel's comment
about their relative technological level when he finds out they built
their own gate:
"Way smarter"
--
"Omnia risus et omnia pulvis et omnia nihil"
-the Aletheia Phrikodes
Bob
<cfol...@eircom.net> wrote:
It was moving in hyperspace - that would probably be a big inhibiting
factor right there.
--
"It is the test of a good religion whether you can joke about it."
- G. K. Chesterton
Bob
Maintainer <aft...@flashmail.com> wrote:
> The reason quite simply...
>
> A SHIP MOVES....
>
> For those who NEVER SAW THE MOVIE....
>
> You need 6 points to locate a destination in a 3 dimensional object....
Which is of course incorrect. two intersection lines (4 points) define
a location. In fact it would be damn hard to get 6 points for 3
intersection lines to define a point. More likely Daniel was a bit
off, it was 3 intersecting PLANES with their perpendiculars predefined.
Two planes intersect to a line, and that line intersects the remaining
plane at a point. this also allows an exponentially larger number of
possible addresses which if they are location derived would be a Good
Thing
--
"We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only
in the same sense and to the extent that we respect
his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart." HL Mencken
Mark Jones
> X-No-Archive: yes
> Now, if you want to get to Mars, wherever you are you need three
> calculations: (1) A latitude, (2) a longitude (1 and 2 being your
> "up-down" and "left-right" coordinates), and (3) the distance. For
> example, say I wanted to go to Mars via my pocket-size space transporter
> (I stole it from AFTL-FAQ Maintainer while he was busy designing the
> nuke for Australia). I go outside my house and need to know three things
> in order to get there: how far in the sky to look up, how much I should
> look to my left or right, and how far to program the device to go. See
> where I'm going?
It's all so much eaier if we just treat the gate addresses like IP
addresses or telephone numbers. No need to calculate for stellar drift
or the expanding universe, no worry about multiple gates on the same
planet (or in the same system). Just dial and go. (Even if you don't
have a directory, you can dial at random...just like the SGC has been
doing for six seasons now.)
Adding a gate to the system like the Tollan did would be a bit trickier,
though.
Bob
<stevechr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> X-No-Archive: yes
>
>
>
> Bob wrote:
> >
> > > You need 6 points to locate a destination in a 3 dimensional object....
> >
> > Which is of course incorrect. two intersection lines (4 points) define
> > a location. In fact it would be damn hard to get 6 points for 3
> > intersection lines to define a point. More likely Daniel was a bit
> > off, it was 3 intersecting PLANES with their perpendiculars predefined.
> > Two planes intersect to a line, and that line intersects the remaining
> > plane at a point. this also allows an exponentially larger number of
> > possible addresses which if they are location derived would be a Good
> > Thing
>
>
> OK, I still don't get all of this. It seems to me that all you need are
> three points to get anywhere in the Universe. Let me just draw this out
> in bad ASCII art:
>
>
> Earth <------you are here
>
>
> Mars
>
>
>
> Now, if you want to get to Mars, wherever you are you need three
> calculations: (1) A latitude, (2) a longitude (1 and 2 being your
> "up-down" and "left-right" coordinates), and (3) the distance. For
> example, say I wanted to go to Mars via my pocket-size space transporter
> (I stole it from AFTL-FAQ Maintainer while he was busy designing the
> nuke for Australia). I go outside my house and need to know three things
> in order to get there: how far in the sky to look up, how much I should
> look to my left or right, and how far to program the device to go. See
> where I'm going?
yes, but it implies an external coordinate system which is supplying
the lost data. 2 points define a line without a coordinate system,
and I think that is what I'm using.
How would you align the coordinate system? Where would the zero point
be and how you a stargate know where it was in relationship to it? See
the problems of an external coodinate system?
--
ADD is great - I wake up to a brand new world every day!
Bob
<sin...@pacifier.com> wrote:
> Steve Christianson wrote:
> > X-No-Archive: yes
>
> > Now, if you want to get to Mars, wherever you are you need three
> > calculations: (1) A latitude, (2) a longitude (1 and 2 being your
> > "up-down" and "left-right" coordinates), and (3) the distance. For
> > example, say I wanted to go to Mars via my pocket-size space transporter
> > (I stole it from AFTL-FAQ Maintainer while he was busy designing the
> > nuke for Australia). I go outside my house and need to know three things
> > in order to get there: how far in the sky to look up, how much I should
> > look to my left or right, and how far to program the device to go. See
> > where I'm going?
>
> It's all so much eaier if we just treat the gate addresses like IP
> addresses or telephone numbers. No need to calculate for stellar drift
> or the expanding universe, no worry about multiple gates on the same
> planet (or in the same system). Just dial and go. (Even if you don't
> have a directory, you can dial at random...just like the SGC has been
> doing for six seasons now.)
>
> Adding a gate to the system like the Tollan did would be a bit trickier,
> though.
But we know that the gates are NOT addressed that way, otherwise they
wouldn't be able to correct them for 'drift' as they did in the first
episode, and it would once again require a master 'IP server'.
No we have too many incidences of gates being moved from location to
location and then being able to be used with a new address at this new
location. And if they all had IPs, why would the Giza and the
Antarctic gates have been conflicting? The coordinate assignment
depends on where they are in the galaxy, not which gate it is.
--
"There is no failure except in no longer trying" Elbert Hubbard
Mark Nobles
> yes, but it implies an external coordinate system which is supplying
> the lost data. 2 points define a line without a coordinate system,
> and I think that is what I'm using.
That's all well and good, but how do you define a point without a
coordinate system?
>
> How would you align the coordinate system? Where would the zero point
> be and how you a stargate know where it was in relationship to it? See
> the problems of an external coodinate system?
All good questions.
Ciaran
has helped. but anyway... stargate still rocks..
Mark Jones
Oh, I know that's not how it's presented in the series--I just think it
makes a lot more sense.
Bob
Nobles <cmn-n...@houston.rr.com> wrote:
> Bob <B...@nospam4me.com> wrote:
>
> > yes, but it implies an external coordinate system which is supplying
> > the lost data. 2 points define a line without a coordinate system,
> > and I think that is what I'm using.
>
> That's all well and good, but how do you define a point without a
> coordinate system?
Actually, I've always felt that there is a real honest to goodness
physical object at 'the point' which is part of the gate network.
Always thought that would be a good plot - something is altering the
symbol points of the system, and SG1 has to team with the Asgard and
some SLs to figure out what's going on before the entire gate system
goes down for good.
> > How would you align the coordinate system? Where would the zero point
> > be and how you a stargate know where it was in relationship to it? See
> > the problems of an external coodinate system?
>
> All good questions.
--
Mark Nobles
> Why couldn't the zero point for each Stargate be that Stargate itself?
> As to the rest, it's (1) look up or down, (2) look left or right, (3)
> figure out the distance. If we can figure out the distances to stars
> with our present technology, surely it must be a snap for the Stargate.
How does that work on a planet that rotates, precesses and nutates?
Not to mention orbiting a star which is orbiting the galactic center, as
are all the other stars on the Stargate system, though not at exactly
the same speed or distance from the center, and not in perfectly
circular orbits.
Bob
<stevechr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Why couldn't the zero point for each Stargate be that Stargate itself?
> As to the rest, it's (1) look up or down, (2) look left or right, (3)
> figure out the distance. If we can figure out the distances to stars
> with our present technology, surely it must be a snap for the Stargate.
Because a coordinate system also has to have an orientation (ie the
alignment question). And if each stargate was zero, then the gate
coordinates would be different depending on the gate you were leaving
from.
Ranger Bob
>In article <3D1C1C...@yahoo.com>, Steve Christianson
><stevechr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > How would you align the coordinate system? Where would the zero point
>> > be and how you a stargate know where it was in relationship to it? See
>> > the problems of an external coodinate system?
That's easy. 000 would be the center of your Galaxy. The x
axis would go from 000 through the ancients' home world. The z axis
would be perpendicular to the x axis and in the same plane as the
rotation of the galaxy. The Y axis would be perpendicular to the
rotation of the galaxy.
We know the gates communicate with each other. As the Ancient
home world (1,0,0) moves around the center of the galaxy, the gates
automatically adjust the coordinate system. That's my story, and i'm
stickin' to it. :-)
>>
>> Why couldn't the zero point for each Stargate be that Stargate itself?
>> As to the rest, it's (1) look up or down, (2) look left or right, (3)
>> figure out the distance. If we can figure out the distances to stars
>> with our present technology, surely it must be a snap for the Stargate.
>
>Because a coordinate system also has to have an orientation (ie the
>alignment question). And if each stargate was zero, then the gate
>coordinates would be different depending on the gate you were leaving
>from.
THAT's why you have the origin symbol. :-)
Now what about the other symbols? (Bear with me here)
Some would argue that the symbols are not based on the
constellations, but that the constellations are based on the symbols.
I don't think this is correct simply because the same symbols can be
found on different gates that would not have the same constellations
in the sky. We also have the situation where Jackson was able to use
the constellations to tell us where Abydos was (in the movie)
I would argue that the symbols ARE related to constellations
in an offhand manner. I think the Ancient's had certain planets that
were important to them (probably because they were the first to be
explored). I believe Earth and Abydos were two of those planets.
The ancients needed a code for their gates. Being space
traveling people, maybe they were drawn to star imagery in their art
work. Since the gates were being designed to last thousands or
millions of years, they would certainly think of putting a little
artistry in there.
If you were building a network of gates to explore the Galaxy,
you would probably set up a line of them across the galaxy, and then
start branching off from there. If Earth and Abydos were in the "line"
then they would be two of the original gates.
When making the symbols for the gates, maybe the ancients
decided (in an artistic fit of whimsy) to use the stars as their
symbols instead of their normal writing. This would work as a security
measure AND it would give a person with knowledge of the stars a way
of navigating without a guide.
This would work if you were just putting a few gates across
the galaxy to get to the other side. But once you started branching
out, this method would become too cumbersome to work. So instead of
having a completely different set of symbols on each gate, the
ancients started to use the symbols on the Earth gate (as well as the
other gates in the original line) on the newer gates. Each of these
newer gates would have a combination for Earth (or another orignal
line gate) that could be easily decoded.
This would explain why the Abydos corrdinates were linked to
our constellations, how Jackson and Sam are able to determine the
right combination so easily, and why we see the same symbols on
different planets.
Ranger Bob
"Did he just call me a woman?"
"Jaffa, TREE!"
Marc Lancer
some proof of this would be the first few minutes of "Frozen" about the Antartic gate.
maelstrom
-- --------------- "Don't fear the dark, fear what lurks IN the dark."--Anonymous
Ranger Bob
<mla...@spamless.mac.com> wrote:
>
>--------------070902040907030304020709
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>Ranger Bob wrote:
>
>>On 28 Jun 2002 14:37:18 GMT, Bob <B...@nospam4me.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>In article <3D1C1C...@yahoo.com>, Steve Christianson
>>><stevechr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
snipped bob's theory of gaqte coordinates.
>>
>> This would explain why the Abydos corrdinates were linked to
>>our constellations, how Jackson and Sam are able to determine the
>>right combination so easily, and why we see the same symbols on
>>different planets.
>>
>>
>if what you are saying is true, then the Ancients were originally from
>Earth.
>some proof of this would be the first few minutes of "Frozen" about the
>Antartic gate.
I haven't seen Frozen yet (I was out of town and my idiot
brother forgot to tape it for me). While Earth being the Ancient home
world is a possibility (and considering how ethnocentric Earthlings
are, it probably is true), it is not the only possibility.
With my trailblazing line theory, Earth could have been in the
middle of the original line of gates. There could be a gate (in the
"opposite" direction from Abydos) that can find Earth by using
constellations in IT's night sky. And maybe there is a world you can
go to from Abydos using coordinates based on the Abydos' night sky.
Earth could have the 6 constellation based symbols from all 3
planets. Abydos could have the 6 constellation based symbols from
Earth, Abydos, and the planet beyond Abydos. This would account for
the symbols on the other gates that are Earth constellations AND would
account for the ones that are not even on the Earth gate.
It's just a theory though.