4th Season Enterprise - Bound - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY !
George Avalos
4-15-05 Enterprise
5 stars (silk)
0-1 stars (wire)
-George
Nightspirit
I give 4.5 just for the laugh factor alone.
--
---
Have Fun,
Night Spirit
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~hipdale2/Riverton_Common.HTML
BSG Blog: http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cylon12/
Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and quite
good with ketchup.
Palpie
and when did Archer revert to his old trusting naive season one persona?
Turk
Essentially silly but not bad silly, and a nice twist on Orion slave
girls. Made me laugh at any rate.
Turk
ANIM8Rfsk
chica...@gmail.com wrote on 4/15/05 7:39 PM:
3.33 for me
It seems like it should have scored a lot higher, but for some reason it was
really boring.
A full point for Tripp shooting down Archer without hesitation.
Points off for them not being able to flush the biosystem once they had the
girls in decon. More points off for the outer chamber of decon not having
scrubbers, or the guards wearing masks, or frelling female guards, or
*something*
fvrc82b8
"George Avalos" <gav...@cctimes.com> wrote in message
news:1113614627.4936acfa1c8793812cebac15ff3ddfc8@teranews...
**
What else could it be? Well maybe ** ** **!
Maureen Goldman
had to do with the tow line at the end.
Chris Applegate
> "Bound"
> 4-15-05 Enterprise
Three. It was pretty. The special effects, I mean.
Chris
TROC
Kweeg
news:1113614627.4936acfa1c8793812cebac15ff3ddfc8@teranews...
> 4-15-05 Enterprise
>
> 5 stars (silk)
>
> 0-1 stars (wire)
4 stars, for the bunch of TOS references snuck in.
--
Qa'pla
Kweeg
http://members.shaw.ca/iksbloodoath
David B
3.25. it had some fun moments but it needed more punch. The revelation
at the end that the Orion females run the Syndicate and that it is the
males who are the true slaves was pretty cool.
TikTok
Good to have a little shameless fun now and again. We even got an
old-school everyone-laughs-at-the-Vulcan ending!
.5 off for stupid Brig protocol, though I guess everyone's judgement was
impaired. Thankfully, no screen time was wasted detailing the girls'
predictable escape.
The Trip/T'Pol subplot was well integrated. Did I imagine it, or did
T'Pol toss off a sarcastic "uh-huh" when Trip claimed they never
*actually* mated?
Regarding Orion gender politics: saw the twist coming early. It might
even have been suggested in an earlier episode but I can't remember.
Can't wait for the mirror eps!
TT
Paul Vader
2.5.
I'm shocked at myself for scoring it that high, frankly. For most of the
episode, my mental vote was going to read "1.0. I feel dirty". Two things
saved it:
1) The revelation that 'Orion slave girls' are nothing of the sort.
2) What the hell? Is it just me, or did the Trip/T'Pol scenes actually
*work*?
Overall, I still felt like washing my mouth out with soap after watching
it, but it wasn't the 100% run away in shock and horror disaster that it
would have been if it was, say, written or directed by B&B. *
--
* PV something like badgers--something like lizards--and something
like corkscrews.
Paul Vader
>.5 off for stupid Brig protocol, though I guess everyone's judgement was
>impaired. Thankfully, no screen time was wasted detailing the girls'
>predictable escape.
What *should* have happened is that Hoshi and T'Pol should have clocked
everyone over the head at that point and taken command. That's why this
didn't creep up over the 2s in my scoring - too much idiot plot. *
TikTok
Paul Vader wrote:
>
>
> What *should* have happened is that Hoshi and T'Pol should have clocked
> everyone over the head at that point and taken command. That's why this
> didn't creep up over the 2s in my scoring - too much idiot plot. *
> --
I did think it was hilarious the way T'Pol and Hoshi just sort of watched
the skanks take over the ship. "Look at them. I'm wearing OVERALLS for
pete's sake."
TT
Jaime M. de Castellvi
3.025 and an old unwashed sock.
I thought the Orion slave girls were fairly well done, considering.
Cheers,
Jaime
Elaine
The humor at the end was excellent. (Of course T'Pol was simply speaking
the logical truth...-) Brief humor was added in a number of scenes that was
a refreshing addition not found often enough in earlier ENT episodes. The
deadly effect of the Orion women on the behaviour of the male crewmen was
realistically handled rather than glossed over. Nice continuity with TOS and
the green Orion women. Interesting brief conversations between Trip and
T'Pol advancing that ongoing sub-plot without getting side-tracked. Trip
shooting all the men on the bridge was an interesting twist. Very
enjoyable episode. But Twilight still ranks as the all time overall best
episode of StarTrek any series...
Elaine
"George Avalos" <gav...@cctimes.com> wrote in message
news:1113614627.4936acfa1c8793812cebac15ff3ddfc8@teranews...
mdic...@seds.lpl.arizona.edu
us over until the REAL Mirror universe story arc begins next week. BTW
I LOVE the glimpse of the CGI Defiant at the end of the promo there!
-Mike
ANIM8Rfsk
mdic...@seds.lpl.arizona.edu at mdic...@seds.lpl.arizona.edu wrote on
4/16/05 3:03 PM:
I screamed in horror at how awful their TOS ship looked, and we only saw it
for literally a second. This is the best argument imaginable against
redoing the fx in the classic series with the poor quality low end stuff
Enterprise has been feeding us.
Chris ®
>0-1 stars (wire)
4 stars. Cotto has done a great job filling out the alien races
introduced in TOS, and he scores again with this episode in regards to
the Orions.
BTW, didn't anyone get that warm and fuzzy TOS feeling at the end when
they were all making fun of T'Pol's "joke"? It sounded like a perfect
Kirk-Spock-McCoy moment.
--
"I reject your reality and substitute my own" - Adam Savage
Arthur Lipscomb
"Elaine" <NeOsSaP...@SkPnAoMlNoOgSyP.AnMeNtO> wrote in message
news:ae888$42618ad3$45010f29$14...@KNOLOGY.NET...
> 4.5
>
snip
But Twilight still ranks as the all time overall best
> episode of StarTrek any series...
>
> Elaine
Which episode of which series was that?
Kweeg
news:19025-426...@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net...
> >5 stars (silk)
>
> >0-1 stars (wire)
>
> 4 stars. Cotto has done a great job filling out the alien races
> introduced in TOS, and he scores again with this episode in regards to
> the Orions.
>
> BTW, didn't anyone get that warm and fuzzy TOS feeling at the end when
> they were all making fun of T'Pol's "joke"? It sounded like a perfect
> Kirk-Spock-McCoy moment.
Indeed!
redhawk
"Arthur Lipscomb" <art...@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote in message
news:w_KdnYwSLOb...@comcast.com...
Enterprise ep where Archer has brain parasites and can't remember anything.
He's living w/ T'Pol in an alternate future where the Enterprise mission
failed and the Xindi destroyed Earth...of course a reset button is
discovered just in time.
I liked several of the 4th season ENT eps more than "Twilight," not to begin
to mention other Trek series. But "Twilight" was voted No. 1 favorite ENT
ep in the recent UPN fan poll, so a lot of people really enjoyed it.
"Bound' vote: 4 stars, one point deduction when T'Pol kissed Trip.
Captain Infinity
To Talk Of Many Things...
>I thought the Orion slave girls were fairly well done, considering.
Considering what?
**
Captain Infinity
Jaime M. de Castellvi
<Infi...@world.std.com> wrote:
>The Time Has Come, Jaime M. de Castellvi said
>To Talk Of Many Things...
>
>>I thought the Orion slave girls were fairly well done, considering.
>
>Considering what?
What.
HTH. HAND.
Cheers,
Jaime
ANIM8Rfsk
art...@alum.calberkeley.org wrote on 4/16/05 3:44 PM:
"Twilight" was that horrible Enterprise episode where Archer lost his short
term memory (but unlike any possible reality, he remember a day at a time
and it reset while he slept) and they reset the whole ep at the end, the way
they should have reset the entire Xindi arc, and, in fact, the entire
series. It was a dreadful episode, and I think she was being sarcastic.
Now, if she'd said DS9s 'The Visitor' I'd have been more inclined to take
her seriously.
Paul Vader
>Now, if she'd said DS9s 'The Visitor' I'd have been more inclined to take
>her seriously.
I have a hard time picking my favorite DS9, so many of them were fantastic,
but that's not a bad choice. *
Daniel Damouth
Worth watching, which places it better than the vast majority of
episodes from previous seasons, and perhaps average for this season.
The humor wasn't side-splitting, but it worked; the women were suitably
alluring and interesting; and the Trip/T'Pol stuff was actually pretty
good.
A few minor problems with the plot, perhaps, but no problems that come
close to the kind we saw in the first seasons.
-Dan Damouth
Elaine
of the best episodes of any Star Trek series. From a
writing/directing/acting point of view it was very tricky to pull off. It
was written and paced well so that it did not drag, and it could of given
the flashback story line. The acting was right on target to portray the
confusion that would happen to someone in this unfortunate situation. The
alternate view of history, "what if something went so wrong on a critical
mission, where would the situation lead?" was interesting. There was
classic Star Trek action and adventure to tell the story. The end was full
of spectacular effects. The final scene in Sick Bay, with the ironically
humerous exchange between Archer and T'Pol, was classic Star Trek end game
humor.
Being able to appreciate fiction means you have to suspend your disbelief
and go with the flow. Common plot ploys in Sci-Fi frequently involve either
1.) the transporter/warp drive was working to get us into this situation and
now its broken so we can't get out. So, they have to come up with a
different way to solve their dilemma. OR 2.) Something scientifically
astounding will occur if we just blow up the ship (aka Reset button). My
logical, scientific mind tells me that currently, dilithium crystal warp
drive engines do not exist on Earth, nor do transporters and tractor beams.
However, knowledge of the current facts, doesn't keep me from enjoying
Sci-Fi tales about the future where such marvelous devices exist. None of
its real, but it is great fun.
Glad you enjoyed the DS9 episode. I liked DS9 as well, although I don't
remember "The Visitor" episode.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Those opinions may be different
from your own.
Elaine
"ANIM8Rfsk" <ANIM...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:BE870B26.2CA44%ANIM...@cox.net...
Paul Vader
>No. I was not being sarcastic. In my opinion Enterprise -Twilight was one
>of the best episodes of any Star Trek series. From a
>writing/directing/acting point of view it was very tricky to pull off. It
Except that it *wasn't* pulled off. For the most part, it was badly
written, directed, and acted. What's worse the reset button was designed
into the episode, and it used the single most irritating narrative trick
used in the series - the 'this is what the characters will be like in the
future. But no, not really'. *
Captain Infinity
To Talk Of Many Things...
>>>I thought the Orion slave girls were fairly well done, considering.
>>
>>Considering what?
>
>What.
>
>HTH. HAND.
Yes, thank you, that gives me a fascinating insight into what you
thought of the show.
**
Captain Infinity
ANIM8Rfsk
NeOsSaP...@SkPnAoMlNoOgSyP.AnMeNtO wrote on 4/17/05 5:35 AM:
> No. I was not being sarcastic.
Sorry. Really thought you were, sort of like yelling out SPOCKS BRAIN! :-)
In my opinion Enterprise -Twilight was one
> of the best episodes of any Star Trek series. From a
> writing/directing/acting point of view it was very tricky to pull off. It
> was written and paced well so that it did not drag, and it could of given
> the flashback story line. The acting was right on target to portray the
> confusion that would happen to someone in this unfortunate situation. The
> alternate view of history, "what if something went so wrong on a critical
> mission, where would the situation lead?" was interesting. There was
> classic Star Trek action and adventure to tell the story. The end was full
> of spectacular effects. The final scene in Sick Bay, with the ironically
> humerous exchange between Archer and T'Pol, was classic Star Trek end game
> humor.
>
> Being able to appreciate fiction means you have to suspend your disbelief
> and go with the flow.
Not always. Not 'he has a known contemporary Earth ailment but it's
symptoms are totally different than the real thing' -- they should have had
something else affect him, something they could make up their own rules for.
Common plot ploys in Sci-Fi frequently involve either
> 1.) the transporter/warp drive was working to get us into this situation and
> now its broken so we can't get out. So, they have to come up with a
> different way to solve their dilemma. OR 2.) Something scientifically
> astounding will occur if we just blow up the ship (aka Reset button). My
> logical, scientific mind tells me that currently, dilithium crystal warp
> drive engines do not exist on Earth, nor do transporters and tractor beams.
But when Voyager spends the entire series trying to find deuterium, or the
Visitors in V come flying to Earth to try and get water while skipping right
past the outer planets where it's prepackaged and not at the bottom of a
gravity well and nobody's shooting at you, then that's just dumb. Same
notation for Twilight.
> However, knowledge of the current facts, doesn't keep me from enjoying
> Sci-Fi tales about the future where such marvelous devices exist. None of
> its real, but it is great fun.
Glad you enjoyed it. But Twilight had the opposite problem than you're
postulation, and I didn't find it so much fun as ranging from tedious to
painful.
>
> Glad you enjoyed the DS9 episode. I liked DS9 as well, although I don't
> remember "The Visitor" episode.
"The Visitor" is the one with old Jake Sisko, flashing back on his father's
death and how he spent his entire life waiting for a second chance. It's
just beautifully written and acted and heart wrenching. In fact, one of the
reasons I really dislike the DS9 finale (other than the basic stunk on ice
component) is that it pretty much undermines their finest hour, The Visitor.
ANIM8Rfsk
pv+u...@pobox.com wrote on 4/17/05 8:12 AM:
> "Elaine" <NeOsSaP...@SkPnAoMlNoOgSyP.AnMeNtO> writes:
>> No. I was not being sarcastic. In my opinion Enterprise -Twilight was one
>> of the best episodes of any Star Trek series. From a
>> writing/directing/acting point of view it was very tricky to pull off. It
>
> Except that it *wasn't* pulled off. For the most part, it was badly
> written, directed, and acted.
Wow. You liked it a LOT better than I did. :-)
What's worse the reset button was designed
> into the episode, and it used the single most irritating narrative trick
> used in the series - the 'this is what the characters will be like in the
> future. But no, not really'. *
Neither of those is impossibly flawed -- The Visitor had both, and yet was
wonderful.
Ian J. Ball
ANIM8Rfsk <ANIM...@cox.net> wrote:
> in article 918f3$42625821$45010f29$27...@KNOLOGY.NET, Elaine at
> NeOsSaP...@SkPnAoMlNoOgSyP.AnMeNtO wrote on 4/17/05 5:35 AM:
>
> > No. I was not being sarcastic.
>
> Sorry. Really thought you were, sort of like yelling out SPOCKS BRAIN! :-)
Er... I actually *like* "Spock's Brain". <blush>
Ian (If for no other reason than I think the scene where Bones
reattaches Spock's brain is cool...)
--
"Read less. More TV." - Dr. Greg House, "House"
http://homepage.mac.com/ijball/TV.html
William December Starr
ANIM8Rfsk <ANIM...@cox.net> said:
> 3.33 for me
>
> It seems like it should have scored a lot higher, but for some
> reason it was really boring.
>
> A full point for Tripp shooting down Archer without hesitation.
>
> Points off for them not being able to flush the biosystem once
> they had the girls in decon. More points off for the outer
> chamber of decon not having scrubbers, or the guards wearing
> masks, or frelling female guards, or *something*
I agree with your complaints, but they loomed a lot larger
for me. As in, I'm trying to think of reasons not to give
this one a simple one-point-zero, and not coming up with any.
There was just way too much Dumb on display here.
So, for the record, 1.0 stars. About the only good thing I
can think of is that William Lucking gave a nicely subdued,
no-scenery-eating performance under all that green crud.
--
William December Starr <wds...@panix.com>
William December Starr
Maureen Goldman <inksl...@FOGsunshine.net> said:
> 1.5 I was really, really bored. The only interesting spot
> for me had to do with the tow line at the end.
But did it give you a headache? Are you feeling listless?
William December Starr
Jaime M. de Castellvi <3c...@comcast.net> said:
> I thought the Orion slave girls were fairly well done,
> considering.
Maybe it's just me, and yes, pheromones don't work on television,
but I thought that all three of the Orion women were suffering
from a terrible case of Not Remotely Hot.
(The fact that it was impossible for me to tell them apart was
also annoying at first, but eventually it became clear that it
didn't matter because they were all just one character anyway.)
ANIM8Rfsk
wds...@panix.com wrote on 4/17/05 11:30 PM:
Yeah, I went middle score with it (against the claims of some around here)
because it didn't actually anger me. I wasn't so bored I changed the
channel or nodded off or went to fix a snack. I sat and watched it. I
smiled a few times. It didn't hurt. There were some TOS references. For
some reason the problems didn't smack me in the face with a dead fish like
they sometimes do. Maybe part of it's knowing there are only a handful of
eps left. You can handle anything when you you when it's gonna end. :-)
And yes, points to William Lucking, who I've liked all the way back to the
Doc Savage movie.
ANIM8Rfsk
wds...@panix.com wrote on 4/17/05 11:37 PM:
> In article <ml13619t8r1lg1l1f...@4ax.com>,
> Jaime M. de Castellvi <3c...@comcast.net> said:
>
>> I thought the Orion slave girls were fairly well done,
>> considering.
>
> Maybe it's just me, and yes, pheromones don't work on television,
> but I thought that all three of the Orion women were suffering
> from a terrible case of Not Remotely Hot.
Only the one was.
>
> (The fact that it was impossible for me to tell them apart was
> also annoying at first, but eventually it became clear that it
> didn't matter because they were all just one character anyway.)
I looked up the hot one on IMDb. You won't BELIEVE what she looks like san
make up. Leave it to Enterprise to take a hot chick and try to make her
hotter and go the exact opposite way, like they do every week with N'Pol.
This is the tall one, that seduced the engineer:
Zombie Elvis
and cats lived together. One voice cried out in the wilderness:<1113614627.4936acfa1c8793812cebac15ff3ddfc8@teranews>:
> "Bound"
> 4-15-05 Enterprise
>
> 5 stars (silk)
>
> 0-1 stars (wire)
>
Not bad, nice twist with the women being the ones who are really in
charge. Pacing was slow.
3.8598915191815
Zenofobe
news:BE85CDC7.2C81E%ANIM...@cox.net:
> had the girls in decon. More points off for the outer chamber of
> decon not having scrubbers, or the guards wearing masks, or frelling
> female guards, or *something*
It's possible that once people are infected, the infection would go its
full course whether exposure continued or not, therefore flushing the air
system not making any difference.
3 stars
Having the Orion women be spies was predictable (especially when we've
already seen something like this in Raijin), but the "the men are the
slaves in Orion society" was a nice enough touch to redeem it a little.
Extra half point for casting Cyia Batten in Trek again (her portrayal of
Ziyal in DS9 was excellent).
Jaime M. de Castellvi
wrote:
>in article d3vkie$qfj$1...@panix3.panix.com, William December Starr at
>wds...@panix.com wrote on 4/17/05 11:37 PM:
>
>> In article <ml13619t8r1lg1l1f...@4ax.com>,
>> Jaime M. de Castellvi <3c...@comcast.net> said:
>>
>>> I thought the Orion slave girls were fairly well done,
>>> considering.
>>
>> Maybe it's just me, and yes, pheromones don't work on television,
>> but I thought that all three of the Orion women were suffering
>> from a terrible case of Not Remotely Hot.
Except for one, I didn't thought they were that hot either (at least
in green). But I thought the opening dance number was well done in
that it was consistent with what's been shown of Orion women dancing
in the past. I also thought they were generally well and believably
played.
>Only the one was.
>>
>> (The fact that it was impossible for me to tell them apart was
>> also annoying at first, but eventually it became clear that it
>> didn't matter because they were all just one character anyway.)
>
>I looked up the hot one on IMDb. You won't BELIEVE what she looks like san
>make up. Leave it to Enterprise to take a hot chick and try to make her
>hotter and go the exact opposite way, like they do every week with N'Pol.
>
>This is the tall one, that seduced the engineer:
>
>http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1296597/
How very curious, but indeed we do agree that there was a hot one and
on who she was.
Cheers,
Jaime
ANIM8Rfsk
fake_email@fake_domain.com wrote on 4/18/05 1:01 AM:
> ANIM8Rfsk <ANIM...@cox.net> wrote in
> news:BE85CDC7.2C81E%ANIM...@cox.net:
>> Points off for them not being able to flush the biosystem once they
>> had the girls in decon. More points off for the outer chamber of
>> decon not having scrubbers, or the guards wearing masks, or frelling
>> female guards, or *something*
>
> It's possible that once people are infected, the infection would go its
> full course whether exposure continued or not, therefore flushing the air
> system not making any difference.
Sure, but then that makes leaving them with just male guards that much more
stupid.
Al Smith
>>>
>>> It seems like it should have scored a lot higher, but for some
>>> reason it was really boring.
>>>
>>> A full point for Tripp shooting down Archer without hesitation.
>>>
>>> Points off for them not being able to flush the biosystem once
>>> they had the girls in decon. More points off for the outer
>>> chamber of decon not having scrubbers, or the guards wearing
>>> masks, or frelling female guards, or *something*
>
>
> I agree with your complaints, but they loomed a lot larger
> for me. As in, I'm trying to think of reasons not to give
> this one a simple one-point-zero, and not coming up with any.
> There was just way too much Dumb on display here.
>
> So, for the record, 1.0 stars. About the only good thing I
> can think of is that William Lucking gave a nicely subdued,
> no-scenery-eating performance under all that green crud.
I just got to see this turkey on Sunday night, thanks to my local
station running a rerun instead of the first-run episode ...
again. "Bound" rates a 2 out of 5 for me. It was ho-hum. The Orion
slave girls did not actually *do* bugger all. They just wandered
around looking skanky. In fact, nobody *did* anything in this
episode -- which is why it was boring.
Maureen Goldman
>Maureen Goldman <inksl...@FOGsunshine.net> said:
>> 1.5 I was really, really bored. The only interesting spot
>> for me had to do with the tow line at the end.
> >wds...@panix.com (William December Starr) wrote:
>But did it give you a headache? Are you feeling listless?
Nope, the episode made me fidgetty and sleepy. I wasn't due for a
sleep cycle, either.
llen...@yahoo.com
to Elaan of Troyius with the interuption in the cabin. Any other
non-Orion seduction references I missed?
I also liked T'Pols ludicrous explanation of why she and Trip were
immune - it was in the finest traditio of 'The Vulcan Science academy
has determined time travel is impossible'.
Larry
Mike Dicenso
On Sat, 16 Apr 2005, ANIM8Rfsk wrote:
> in article 1113689035.1...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com,
> mdic...@seds.lpl.arizona.edu at mdic...@seds.lpl.arizona.edu wrote on
> 4/16/05 3:03 PM:
>
> > 3.9. A decent little fan boy story with a cute twist at the end to tide
> > us over until the REAL Mirror universe story arc begins next week. BTW
> > I LOVE the glimpse of the CGI Defiant at the end of the promo there!
> > -Mike
> >
>
> I screamed in horror at how awful their TOS ship looked, and we only saw it
> for literally a second. This is the best argument imaginable against
> redoing the fx in the classic series with the poor quality low end stuff
> Enterprise has been feeding us.
I couldn't disagree more with you on that. The CGI looked pretty good
actually, and there was even a molted-colored upper saucer section, plus
the weathering effect as the original 11' miniature had. So, no, I
disagree very strongly with you here. It looked pretty good all things
considered.
-Mike
William December Starr
llen...@yahoo.com said:
> I'll give it a 1.75 - way too much idiot plot. I appreciated the
> nod to Elaan of Troyius with the interuption in the cabin. Any
> other non-Orion seduction references I missed?
The scene with the three of them coming on board looked to me like a
conscious echo of Mudd's Women strolling through Kirk's Enterprise
and distracting the male crewmen half to death. I sort of wonder
whether that was why there were three of them when the story could
probably as easily have worked with just two.
Mr. Killfile
SPOILERS!
SPOILERS!
SPOILERS!
SPOILERS!
SPOILERS!
SPOILERS!
SPOILERS!
SPOILERS!
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SPOILERS!
SPOILERS!
SPOILERS!
SPOILERS!
SPOILERS!
SPOILERS!
SPOILERS!
SPOILERS!
SPOILERS!
SPOILERS!
SPOILERS!
SPOILERS!
SPOILERS!
SPOILERS!
SPOILERS!
SPOILERS!
SPOILERS!
SPOILERS!
> 3.33 for me
>
> It seems like it should have scored a lot higher, but for some reason
it was
> really boring.
>
> A full point for Tripp shooting down Archer without hesitation.
>
> Points off for them not being able to flush the biosystem once they
had the
> girls in decon. More points off for the outer chamber of decon not
having
> scrubbers, or the guards wearing masks, or frelling female guards, or
> *something*
It was a snails pace...and seems to only have been an episode put
together on alcohol and lap dance money.
It was an episode built upon the Slave girl dance...That's it! The
entire episode could have been just that dance...and it would have been
more exciting. I TiVo'ed it...and have ONLY fast forwarded one episode
in the entire 4 year run (Precious Cargo - S2). With Bound...I fast
forwarded nearly the entire episode...after the dance of course. I
think I hit play just before the Trip / T'Pol kiss.
That speaks volumes.
Mr. Killfile
"We're not just doing this for money...we're doing it for a shit-load
of money!" -- Bill Pullman ("Spaceballs")
---
ANIM8Rfsk
wds...@panix.com wrote on 4/18/05 5:47 PM:
Or better with a dozen. Seems more reasonable they be in every nook and
cranny as it were.
ANIM8Rfsk
inv...@address.com wrote on 4/18/05 5:58 AM:
> I just got to see this turkey on Sunday night, thanks to my local
> station running a rerun instead of the first-run episode ...
> again. "Bound" rates a 2 out of 5 for me. It was ho-hum. The Orion
> slave girls did not actually *do* bugger all.
They might have done bugger all -- we'll have to wait for the unrated DVD
edition to know for sure.
Clark Zahn
>
> "Bound"
> 4-15-05 Enterprise
>
> 5 stars (silk)
>
> 0-1 stars (wire)
>
1.7
The worst episode so far. I would have rated it lower except for a few
good plot points:
1 - The Trip TPol interchanges
2 - Reed refused an order
3 - The twist with the green women being the bosses.
4 - Trip is back to being a wise guy.
This week ST Ent was actually worse then AndromeDUH. I have a TIVO and
I fast forwarded thru the first half of ST ENT. I watched all of
AndomeDUH. I keep thinking it has to get better, plus maybe Rommie will
return.
--
Clark Zahn
clzah...@mindspring.com Remove shoes to reply.
Registered linux user 267087
ANIM8Rfsk
clzah...@mindspring.com wrote on 4/19/05 8:20 PM:
> I watched all of
> AndomeDUH. I keep thinking it has to get better, plus maybe Rommie will
> return.
um
what happened in the Andromeda you watched?
Zenofobe
news:BE88E134.2CCB9%ANIM...@cox.net:
Assuming that there are still female MACOs/security officers on board.
The best course of action would seem to be to put them somewhere where they
cannot make eye contact with anyone, but still remain under video
surveillance.
Clark Zahn
A little typo there.
Childbirth sure wasn't kind to her figure!
Clark Zahn
A little typo there, meant past tense.
Childbirth sure wasn't kind to her figure!
--
ANIM8Rfsk
clzah...@mindspring.com wrote on 4/20/05 8:06 PM:
> ANIM8Rfsk wrote:
>>
>> in article 4265CA6F...@mindspring.com, Clark Zahn at
>> clzah...@mindspring.com wrote on 4/19/05 8:20 PM:
>>
>>> I watched all of
>>> AndomeDUH. I keep thinking it has to get better, plus maybe Rommie will
>>> return.
>>
>> um
>>
>> what happened in the Andromeda you watched?
>
> A little typo there.
>
> Childbirth sure wasn't kind to her figure!
Ah. Thought you might have been watching WGN or something and were a week
behind. :-)
Paul Vader
>Wow. You liked it a LOT better than I did. :-)
Did not!
>
>> used in the series - the 'this is what the characters will be like in the
>> future. But no, not really'. *
>
>Neither of those is impossibly flawed -- The Visitor had both, and yet was
>wonderful.
I suppose that's true in a way, but it's a case of the exception proving
the rule, I think. It also helps that *some* of the visitor (the non-tragic
parts) start to come true as the show progresses. You feel that you
actually understand Jake better for the story, which is something that the
most odious 'twilight' in no way accomplished. *
--
* PV something like badgers--something like lizards--and something
like corkscrews.
Paul Vader
>I couldn't disagree more with you on that. The CGI looked pretty good
>actually, and there was even a molted-colored upper saucer section, plus
>the weathering effect as the original 11' miniature had. So, no, I
I'm with you on this one - I think the model was quite well done. More
about that in the review post though... *
ANIM8Rfsk
pv+u...@pobox.com wrote on 4/22/05 7:44 PM:
> Mike Dicenso <mdic...@seds.org> writes:
>> I couldn't disagree more with you on that. The CGI looked pretty good
>> actually, and there was even a molted-colored upper saucer section, plus
>> the weathering effect as the original 11' miniature had. So, no, I
>
> I'm with you on this one - I think the model was quite well done. More
> about that in the review post though... *
I thought it was by far the weakest part of
THE BEST EPISDOE OF ENTERRPRISE EVER!
4.5 for me
fractional points off for that old bugaboo of Enterprise, them being wildly
advanced beyond the Kirk era. In this case, the Tholian Web. But it put a
smile on my face nonetheless.
minor fractional points off for cheesy cgi explosion of dying tholian.
fractional points off for lousy looking TOS ship, which looks even worse in
the previews for next week.
But fractional points restored for that bridge. Even though I instantly
spotted mistakes, I'll chalk 'em up to it being the defiant. :-D
And note how much better N'Pol looks AS HERSELF and not the way they changed
her to make her 'sexy' -- idiots.
They *so* need ghost Kirk to float by next week.
ANIM8Rfsk
pv+u...@pobox.com wrote on 4/22/05 7:42 PM:
> ANIM8Rfsk <ANIM...@cox.net> writes:
>> Wow. You liked it a LOT better than I did. :-)
>
> Did not!
>>
>>> used in the series - the 'this is what the characters will be like in the
>>> future. But no, not really'. *
>>
>> Neither of those is impossibly flawed -- The Visitor had both, and yet was
>> wonderful.
>
> I suppose that's true in a way, but it's a case of the exception proving
> the rule, I think. It also helps that *some* of the visitor (the non-tragic
> parts) start to come true as the show progresses. You feel that you
> actually understand Jake better for the story, which is something that the
> most odious 'twilight' in no way accomplished. *
Agreed completely. I'm just saying it *can* be done. It's not that
Enterprise had a hopeless task, it's just that, as always, they failed to
accomplish what others had done better before.
Jack Bohn
>fractional points off for that old bugaboo of Enterprise, them being wildly
>advanced beyond the Kirk era. In this case, the Tholian Web. But it put a
>smile on my face nonetheless.
I can chalk that up to the fact that only two ships were able to
respond to Kirk, while the Tholian base had (I didn't count, but
from geometric considerations) twelve.
>minor fractional points off for cheesy cgi explosion of dying tholian.
Yeah, Phlox overdid his job, maybe he wanted to make sure the
crystal radio set was destroyed.
>fractional points off for lousy looking TOS ship, which looks even worse in
>the previews for next week.
It looks too "bright" to me... but that's OK, "All the better to
see you with, my dear." (I don't know if it was the editing, but
in the previews it looks like it will fire a photon torpedo to
the rear.)
>But fractional points restored for that bridge. Even though I instantly
>spotted mistakes, I'll chalk 'em up to it being the defiant. :-D
A brief glimpse of the ceiling around the perimeter, it looked to
be made of grating.
>They *so* need ghost Kirk to float by next week.
--
-Jack
El Pollo Borracho
"Paul Vader" <pv+u...@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:11626jj...@news.supernews.com...
> TikTok <wit...@net.bom> writes:
> >.5 off for stupid Brig protocol, though I guess everyone's judgement was
> >impaired. Thankfully, no screen time was wasted detailing the girls'
> >predictable escape.
>
> What *should* have happened is that Hoshi and T'Pol should have clocked
> everyone over the head at that point and taken command. That's why this
> didn't creep up over the 2s in my scoring - too much idiot plot. *
I had the same thought. Hoshi could have dealt with the entire situation
alone. Add in T'Pol and there would have been bits of skank all over the
walls.
Shawn H
: I just got to see this turkey on Sunday night, thanks to my local
: station running a rerun instead of the first-run episode ...
: again. "Bound" rates a 2 out of 5 for me. It was ho-hum. The Orion
: slave girls did not actually *do* bugger all. They just wandered
: around looking skanky. In fact, nobody *did* anything in this
: episode -- which is why it was boring.
I didn't mind the male Orion (nice character bits with the sleazy lines,
his resigned attitude to beheading Archer), but when the Captain left the
clearly evil ladies guarded by males, and T'Pol and Hoshi had to have Trip
save the bridge while they just watched passively ... c'mon, what happened
to their combat skills, or the
female marines? Mind-numbing junk.
Shawn
Shawn H
: "Twilight" was that horrible Enterprise episode where Archer lost his short
: term memory (but unlike any possible reality, he remember a day at a time
: and it reset while he slept) and they reset the whole ep at the end, the way
: they should have reset the entire Xindi arc, and, in fact, the entire
: series. It was a dreadful episode, and I think she was being sarcastic.
It was also the favorite ENT episode in the recent online poll. I always
saw it as a pale imitation of "Inner Light."
Shawn
Shawn H
: In article <BE882A93.2CB30%ANIM...@cox.net>,
: ANIM8Rfsk <ANIM...@cox.net> wrote:
: > in article 918f3$42625821$45010f29$27...@KNOLOGY.NET, Elaine at
: > NeOsSaP...@SkPnAoMlNoOgSyP.AnMeNtO wrote on 4/17/05 5:35 AM:
: >
: > > No. I was not being sarcastic.
: >
: > Sorry. Really thought you were, sort of like yelling out SPOCKS BRAIN! :-)
: Er... I actually *like* "Spock's Brain". <blush>
: Ian (If for no other reason than I think the scene where Bones
: reattaches Spock's brain is cool...)
Ian, there's no hope for you as a critic, we've known that for a long
time.
Shawn
Shawn H
: 2) What the hell? Is it just me, or did the Trip/T'Pol scenes actually
: *work*?
I'm tired of him acting like he's doing her a favor by returning her
feelings. Just admit you're in love, you two, and get down to some
Amanda/Sarek monkey business! Spock needs a best friend!
Shawn
Shawn H
: in article 1113689035.1...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com,
: > 3.9. A decent little fan boy story with a cute twist at the end to tide
: > us over until the REAL Mirror universe story arc begins next week. BTW
: > I LOVE the glimpse of the CGI Defiant at the end of the promo there!
: > -Mike
: >
: I screamed in horror at how awful their TOS ship looked, and we only saw it
: for literally a second. This is the best argument imaginable against
: redoing the fx in the classic series with the poor quality low end stuff
: Enterprise has been feeding us.
Because still photos collaged in by hand are so much more convincing?
Shawn
Shawn H
: In article <ml13619t8r1lg1l1f...@4ax.com>,
: Jaime M. de Castellvi <3c...@comcast.net> said:
: > I thought the Orion slave girls were fairly well done,
: > considering.
: Maybe it's just me, and yes, pheromones don't work on television,
: but I thought that all three of the Orion women were suffering
: from a terrible case of Not Remotely Hot.
: (The fact that it was impossible for me to tell them apart was
: also annoying at first, but eventually it became clear that it
: didn't matter because they were all just one character anyway.)
They were easy to tell apart. The one with her hair up, the dumb one, and
the mute one.
Shawn
Shawn H
: >.5 off for stupid Brig protocol, though I guess everyone's judgement was
: >impaired. Thankfully, no screen time was wasted detailing the girls'
: >predictable escape.
: What *should* have happened is that Hoshi and T'Pol should have clocked
: everyone over the head at that point and taken command. That's why this
: didn't creep up over the 2s in my scoring - too much idiot plot. *
Exactly. They're not too "listless" to show up to the bridge, then they're
not to listless to aim a frelling phaser! Also a real missed opportunity
to give them a showcase, and have T'Pol exercise the command skills she's
used so much more forcefully in other episodes.
Shawn
Shawn H
: 4.5
: T'Pol advancing that ongoing sub-plot without getting side-tracked. Trip
: shooting all the men on the bridge was an interesting twist. Very
Twist on what? The usual "Trip saves everyone" theme?
Shawn
ANIM8Rfsk
shill#@fas.harvard.edu wrote on 4/25/05 11:04 AM:
Or, the ugly one that 'did they really think we wouldn't notice she was at
best homely 'cause she was green' or the 'actually attractive one who like
N'Pol looks way better in real life' and the one that had no lines.
ANIM8Rfsk
shill#@fas.harvard.edu wrote on 4/25/05 11:09 AM:
That's amazing. Why are there people that like something that objectively
bad?
ANIM8Rfsk
shill#@fas.harvard.edu wrote on 4/25/05 11:11 AM:
um . . . lost me there Shawn.
David Johnston
wrote:
Because nothing is objectively bad.
Mike Dicenso
On Fri, 22 Apr 2005, ANIM8Rfsk wrote:
> in article 116jdkf...@news.supernews.com, Paul Vader at
> pv+u...@pobox.com wrote on 4/22/05 7:44 PM:
>
> > Mike Dicenso <mdic...@seds.org> writes:
> >> I couldn't disagree more with you on that. The CGI looked pretty good
> >> actually, and there was even a molted-colored upper saucer section, plus
> >> the weathering effect as the original 11' miniature had. So, no, I
> >
> > I'm with you on this one - I think the model was quite well done. More
> > about that in the review post though... *
>
> I thought it was by far the weakest part of
>
> THE BEST EPISDOE OF ENTERRPRISE EVER!
>
> 4.5 for me
>
> fractional points off for that old bugaboo of Enterprise, them being wildly
> advanced beyond the Kirk era. In this case, the Tholian Web. But it put a
> smile on my face nonetheless.
Oh that's pure banana oil. The web was simply spun faster because there
were at *least* 3 or 4 ships to spin it this time, and none of them had
been blasted by a certain Constitution class starship to boot, either....
> minor fractional points off for cheesy cgi explosion of dying tholian.
I agree, that could've been done a bit better, but it isn't worth marking
off points for, especially since we got that great line from Phlox: "Will
you please kindly die?"
> fractional points off for lousy looking TOS ship, which looks even worse in
> the previews for next week.
Big, big disagreement. It was awesome! I'am really looking for to the
Defiant kicking some 22nd century ass next Friday!
> But fractional points restored for that bridge. Even though I instantly
> spotted mistakes, I'll chalk 'em up to it being the defiant. :-D
It was a beautiful set, and I love how they put the extras as the red
shirt and captain in *exactly* the same postion as in TTW. I also love
that someone remembered that in those days each ship had their own emblem,
too.
> And note how much better N'Pol looks AS HERSELF and not the way they changed
> her to make her 'sexy' -- idiots.
>
> They *so* need ghost Kirk to float by next week.
Nah, I'd mark off points for that if they did, simply because Kirk stated
he was in his own universe, and that he prefered a crowded one instead.
The Mirror Universe is VERY crowded indeed.
-Mike
ANIM8Rfsk
mdic...@seds.org wrote on 4/25/05 3:20 PM:
>
>
> On Fri, 22 Apr 2005, ANIM8Rfsk wrote:
>
>> in article 116jdkf...@news.supernews.com, Paul Vader at
>> pv+u...@pobox.com wrote on 4/22/05 7:44 PM:
>>
>>> Mike Dicenso <mdic...@seds.org> writes:
>>>> I couldn't disagree more with you on that. The CGI looked pretty good
>>>> actually, and there was even a molted-colored upper saucer section, plus
>>>> the weathering effect as the original 11' miniature had. So, no, I
>>>
>>> I'm with you on this one - I think the model was quite well done. More
>>> about that in the review post though... *
>>
>> I thought it was by far the weakest part of
>>
>> THE BEST EPISDOE OF ENTERRPRISE EVER!
>>
>> 4.5 for me
>>
>> fractional points off for that old bugaboo of Enterprise, them being wildly
>> advanced beyond the Kirk era. In this case, the Tholian Web. But it put a
>> smile on my face nonetheless.
>
> Oh that's pure banana oil. The web was simply spun faster because there
> were at *least* 3 or 4 ships to spin it this time, and none of them had
> been blasted by a certain Constitution class starship to boot, either....
And they used a completely different technique. The TOS ships had to touch
and actually spun a web. These guys just connect light beams and don't need
to get anywhere near each other to initiate the web. And they only shoot
major lines between ships, and all the sublines that the TTW ships had to
spin manually just appear automatically. That's not a function of more
ships (and there's like a dozen), it's a function of a massively advanced
and very different technique. The podcast admitted they changed it just to
make it faster.
>
>
>> minor fractional points off for cheesy cgi explosion of dying tholian.
>
> I agree, that could've been done a bit better, but it isn't worth marking
> off points for, especially since we got that great line from Phlox: "Will
> you please kindly die?"
Script good, fx bad. They don't get a pass on bad fx work because of good
writing.
>
>
>> fractional points off for lousy looking TOS ship, which looks even worse in
>> the previews for next week.
>
> Big, big disagreement. It was awesome! I'am really looking for to the
> Defiant kicking some 22nd century ass next Friday!
It looks just awful. Ever have a friend that sanded all the detail, like
those stupid raised sensor lines, off an AMT model, in preparation for
painting? And you had a totally flat finish ugly kit? That's what this
looks like. It's cool because it's the original design, not because of the
poor Lightwave execution.
>
>
>> But fractional points restored for that bridge. Even though I instantly
>> spotted mistakes, I'll chalk 'em up to it being the defiant. :-D
>
> It was a beautiful set, and I love how they put the extras as the red
> shirt and captain in *exactly* the same postion as in TTW. I also love
> that someone remembered that in those days each ship had their own emblem,
> too.
According to the podcast, you can see where the removed the Enterprise delta
shield from the redshirt in the hall. :-D
>
>
>> And note how much better N'Pol looks AS HERSELF and not the way they changed
>> her to make her 'sexy' -- idiots.
>>
>> They *so* need ghost Kirk to float by next week.
>
> Nah, I'd mark off points for that if they did, simply because Kirk stated
> he was in his own universe, and that he prefered a crowded one instead.
> The Mirror Universe is VERY crowded indeed.
> -Mike
Of course the question remains -- why did the Tholians suck in a TOS ship?
Wasn't there a Mirror Defiant to grab? Where did the Mirror Defiant go?
Kweeg
news:BE92BD9B.2E23D%ANIM...@cox.net...
<snip>
> Of course the question remains -- why did the Tholians suck in a TOS ship?
> Wasn't there a Mirror Defiant to grab? Where did the Mirror Defiant go?
Because they (the MU) don't have Constitution class starships yet. IIRC they
said that not only had been pulled from another dimension but had also been
pulled from another time.
--
Qa'pla
Kweeg
http://members.shaw.ca/iksbloodoath
ANIM8Rfsk
wrote on 4/25/05 4:25 PM:
> "ANIM8Rfsk" <ANIM...@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:BE92BD9B.2E23D%ANIM...@cox.net...
> <snip>
>> Of course the question remains -- why did the Tholians suck in a TOS ship?
>> Wasn't there a Mirror Defiant to grab? Where did the Mirror Defiant go?
>
> Because they (the MU) don't have Constitution class starships yet. IIRC they
> said that not only had been pulled from another dimension but had also been
> pulled from another time.
riiight . . . but my question is, if the TOS Defiant went to the MU
Tholians, where did the MU Defiant go?
Kweeg
errr.... nowhere.... why would it....
David Johnston
wrote:
There are hundreds of parallels it could go to, assuming it went
anywhere at all.
>
mdic...@seds.lpl.arizona.edu
Oh more banana oil. You can still explain it away as I did previously.
It seems all to apparent to me that you're just bitching for the sake
of bitching. I mean come fracking on, dude, the Tholian web would be a
useless thing if they couldn't do it faster, and it requiring a dozen
or more vessels to complete it in a minute's time frame is perfectly
logical. It does not require more advanced tech.
> >> minor fractional points off for cheesy cgi explosion of dying
tholian.
> >
> > I agree, that could've been done a bit better, but it isn't worth
marking
> > off points for, especially since we got that great line from Phlox:
"Will
> > you please kindly die?"
>
> Script good, fx bad. They don't get a pass on bad fx work because of
good
> writing.
They most certainly do. Otherwise you've not only condemned this scene,
but a host of other very popular SF series, like TOS and Doctor Who.
Bad FX from time to time is forgivable, but not lousy characterizations
and story.
> >> fractional points off for lousy looking TOS ship, which looks even
worse in
> >> the previews for next week.
> >
> > Big, big disagreement. It was awesome! I'am really looking for to
the
> > Defiant kicking some 22nd century ass next Friday!
>
> It looks just awful. Ever have a friend that sanded all the detail,
like
> those stupid raised sensor lines, off an AMT model, in preparation
for
> painting? And you had a totally flat finish ugly kit? That's what
this
> looks like. It's cool because it's the original design, not because
of the
> poor Lightwave execution.
In case you didn't know this, Sparky, the original 11 foot shooting
model did have stenciled in gridlines, which are now very visible to
anyone who has the high quality DVD collector sets. The CGI Defiant has
the lines (just barely visible like the original shooting model), and
it has the proper light ghost gray overall color, and molted
blue-gray-green upper saucer color. The details are wonderfully
accurate. Don't you dare even try to compare this accurate, beautifully
rendered version of the Connies to that piece of shit AMT model. Don't
even try!
> >> But fractional points restored for that bridge. Even though I
instantly
> >> spotted mistakes, I'll chalk 'em up to it being the defiant. :-D
> >
> > It was a beautiful set, and I love how they put the extras as the
red
> > shirt and captain in *exactly* the same postion as in TTW. I also
love
> > that someone remembered that in those days each ship had their own
emblem,
> > too.
>
> According to the podcast, you can see where the removed the
Enterprise delta
> shield from the redshirt in the hall. :-D
Wasn't all that noticeable, if even visible at all.
> >> And note how much better N'Pol looks AS HERSELF and not the way
they changed
> >> her to make her 'sexy' -- idiots.
> >>
> >> They *so* need ghost Kirk to float by next week.
> >
> > Nah, I'd mark off points for that if they did, simply because Kirk
stated
> > he was in his own universe, and that he prefered a crowded one
instead.
> > The Mirror Universe is VERY crowded indeed.
> > -Mike
>
> Of course the question remains -- why did the Tholians suck in a TOS
ship?
> Wasn't there a Mirror Defiant to grab? Where did the Mirror Defiant
go?
You're assuming that the histories in the M-universe follow exactly as
they do in the "real" one. I doubt that the M-Defiant in the 2260's
even had been assigned to that sector in the first place, and there
were no similar attempts in another alternate reality to snag a future
ship like the M-Tholians did in IAMD.
-Mike
ANIM8Rfsk
>> It looks just awful. Ever have a friend that sanded all the detail,
> like
>> those stupid raised sensor lines, off an AMT model, in preparation
> for
>> painting? And you had a totally flat finish ugly kit? That's what
> this
>> looks like. It's cool because it's the original design, not because
> of the
>> poor Lightwave execution.
>
> In case you didn't know this, Sparky, the original 11 foot shooting
> model did have stenciled in gridlines, which are now very visible to
> anyone who has the high quality DVD collector sets.
You know darn well I know that. Very faint pencil lines. Not big fat 3D
lines like on the AMT kit. Which is what I was complaining about.
The CGI Defiant has
> the lines (just barely visible like the original shooting model), and
> it has the proper light ghost gray overall color, and molted
> blue-gray-green upper saucer color. The details are wonderfully
> accurate. Don't you dare even try to compare this accurate, beautifully
> rendered version of the Connies to that piece of shit AMT model. Don't
> even try!
Compare? Here you go. The Mirror Defiant doesn't look nearly as good as
the AMT kit did in THE DOOMSDAY MACHINE. How's that?
The model may be fine, but the lighting and compositing makes it look awful.
And the previews look like they shot it all with the wrong lenses as well.
That flyby of it looks terrible.
William December Starr
Shawn H <shill#@fas.harvard.edu> said:
In rec.arts.startrek.current ANIM8Rfsk <ANIM...@cox.net> wrote:
: "Twilight" was that horrible Enterprise episode where Archer lost his short
: term memory (but unlike any possible reality, he remember a day at a time
: and it reset while he slept) and they reset the whole ep at the end, the way
: they should have reset the entire Xindi arc, and, in fact, the entire
: series. It was a dreadful episode, and I think she was being sarcastic.
[ re 'Twilight" ]
> It was also the favorite ENT episode in the recent online poll.
> I always saw it as a pale imitation of "Inner Light."
>
> Except it didn't suck so much.
Okay, that's not fair -- "The Inner Light" wasn't actively bad as
episodes go; it just wasn't very good either. Certainly nowhere
near as good as to deserve all the fan-worship that it's gotten.
--
William December Starr <wds...@panix.com>
William December Starr
ANIM8Rfsk <ANIM...@cox.net> said:
> And they used a completely different technique. The TOS ships had
> to touch and actually spun a web. These guys just connect light
> beams and don't need to get anywhere near each other to initiate
> the web. And they only shoot major lines between ships, and all
> the sublines that the TTW ships had to spin manually just appear
> automatically. That's not a function of more ships (and there's
> like a dozen), it's a function of a massively advanced and very
> different technique. The podcast admitted they changed it just to
> make it faster.
It doesn't _have_ to be a function of a massively advanced
technique. It could be that it's a technique that produces -- yes,
quite rapidly -- a web that a healthy Constitution-class starship
could run through like it was tissue paper.
[ *snip* ]
> According to the podcast, you can see where the removed the
> Enterprise delta shield from the redshirt in the hall. :-D
Do you mean that the costuming department took an existing TOS
Enterprise costume and modified it, rather than creating a new
Defiant one?
ANIM8Rfsk
wds...@panix.com wrote on 4/25/05 6:47 PM:
>> According to the podcast, you can see where the removed the
>> Enterprise delta shield from the redshirt in the hall. :-D
>
> Do you mean that the costuming department took an existing TOS
> Enterprise costume and modified it, rather than creating a new
> Defiant one?
Yeah, on the podcast Sussman said he thought it was left over from Trials
and Tribbleations.
ANIM8Rfsk
something I said.
I complained about the big raised lines on the AMT model.
It sounds like you thought I was ragging on the Defiant and praising the
AMT. I was saying nothing about the Defiant re the sensor lines, and was
ragging on the AMT. I was merely setting up the 'matte finish' comparison.
in article BE92E7E7.2E448%ANIM...@cox.net, ANIM8Rfsk at ANIM...@cox.net
wrote on 4/25/05 6:31 PM:
Mike Dicenso
On Mon, 25 Apr 2005, ANIM8Rfsk wrote:
> Listen, Miker, before this gets nasty, I really think you misunderstood
> something I said.
>
> I complained about the big raised lines on the AMT model.
>
> It sounds like you thought I was ragging on the Defiant and praising the
> AMT. I was saying nothing about the Defiant re the sensor lines, and was
> ragging on the AMT. I was merely setting up the 'matte finish' comparison.
I disagree again here; the "paint job" on the CGI Defiant is spot on to
that of the Enterprise 11' foot model. The AMT Constellation was the right
light grey color, but sorely lacking in the weathering effect and molted
coloration that the actual big model had. You just simply cannot compare a
hastily slapped together AMT kit (and an inaccurate one at that) to the
superbly well-rendered CGI model. You can't even compare how they were
photographed since we are seeing angles and motion for the Defiant that
was not done with the AMT Constellation because the FX crews had to try to
pick angles where the model being a commercial kit isn't so obvious. No
such issue with the Defiant, in which we see the power up of the warp
nacelles, the windows lighting up, and much, much more.
-Mike
Mike Dicenso
On Mon, 25 Apr 2005, ANIM8Rfsk wrote:
> in article 1114477879.3...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com,
> mdic...@seds.lpl.arizona.edu at mdic...@seds.lpl.arizona.edu wrote on
> 4/25/05 6:11 PM:
>
> >> It looks just awful. Ever have a friend that sanded all the detail,
> > like
> >> those stupid raised sensor lines, off an AMT model, in preparation
> > for
> >> painting? And you had a totally flat finish ugly kit? That's what
> > this
> >> looks like. It's cool because it's the original design, not because
> > of the
> >> poor Lightwave execution.
> >
> > In case you didn't know this, Sparky, the original 11 foot shooting
> > model did have stenciled in gridlines, which are now very visible to
> > anyone who has the high quality DVD collector sets.
>
> You know darn well I know that. Very faint pencil lines. Not big fat 3D
> lines like on the AMT kit. Which is what I was complaining about.
Except that that CGI Defiant made for this episode has barely visible (on
the front leading edge of the saucer) lines. You can't even really see the
lines on the top of the saucer, which is how it is supposed to look. The
one thing I hated about the Greg Jein 5' model built for DS9's "Trials and
Tribble-ations" was the blatently thick etched lines in the saucer
section's top and bottom. Ugh. Too bad as that was otherwise a sweet
model.
> The CGI Defiant has
> > the lines (just barely visible like the original shooting model), and
> > it has the proper light ghost gray overall color, and molted
> > blue-gray-green upper saucer color. The details are wonderfully
> > accurate. Don't you dare even try to compare this accurate, beautifully
> > rendered version of the Connies to that piece of shit AMT model. Don't
> > even try!
>
> Compare? Here you go. The Mirror Defiant doesn't look nearly as good as
> the AMT kit did in THE DOOMSDAY MACHINE. How's that?
Well, then I'd say that you're opinion is becoming more and more erratic.
I honestly hope you don't believe that as it was all too painfully obvious
in several scenes that the Constellation was a crappy, under-detailed,
poorly photographed AMT model. The Defiant in IAMD is far and away
superior in detail, lighting, and perhaps most importantly, it doesn't
jiggle around.
> The model may be fine, but the lighting and compositing makes it look awful.
> And the previews look like they shot it all with the wrong lenses as well.
> That flyby of it looks terrible.
Looks awesome to me. The ship is shown well-lit enough that you can see
the details nicely, yet maintains a kind of dark mood appropriate for the
setting. In addition, the preview shots for next week is showing some
truely amazing angles and view points that back in the 60's would have
been impossible, or at the very least highly expensive to shoot.
-Mike
David B
Yes. They reused the costumes they created for the Ds9 tribble episode.
Al Smith
> were at *least* 3 or 4 ships to spin it this time, and none of them had
> been blasted by a certain Constitution class starship to boot, either....
Maybe it's a web of inferior quality. Maybe a hundred years later,
the webs of the Tholians are stronger, and take longer to spin.
Jack Bohn
>On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 18:52:33 -0700, ANIM8Rfsk <ANIM...@cox.net> wrote:
>>Yeah, on the podcast Sussman said he thought it was left over from Trials
>>and Tribbleations.
>
>What the hell is a "podcast?"
Am mp3 or other sound computer file. The idea is that it isn't
"broadcast," but shared around on people's iPods (or other
player).
As you might guess, here it is being used by the producers to
give an audio commentary on the episode.
The Trek podcast can be found at:
http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/news/article/10602.html
Several for the new Battlestar Galactica can be found at:
http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/downloads/podcast/
--
-Jack
ANIM8Rfsk
rogbl...@iname10.com wrote on 4/26/05 4:39 AM:
> On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 18:52:33 -0700, ANIM8Rfsk <ANIM...@cox.net> wrote:
>> Yeah, on the podcast Sussman said he thought it was left over from Trials
>> and Tribbleations.
>
> What the hell is a "podcast?"
It's a silly name for a commentary. I gather you're supposed to download it
to your iPod and try to sync it up and watch it along with the show. I just
listened to it in the background on my computer while I did other stuff.
You can get it at startrek.com
Shawn H
: shill#@fas.harvard.edu wrote on 4/25/05 11:09 AM:
: > In rec.arts.startrek.current ANIM8Rfsk <ANIM...@cox.net> wrote:
: >
: > : "Twilight" was that horrible Enterprise episode where Archer lost his short
: > : term memory (but unlike any possible reality, he remember a day at a time
: > : and it reset while he slept) and they reset the whole ep at the end, the way
: > : they should have reset the entire Xindi arc, and, in fact, the entire
: > : series. It was a dreadful episode, and I think she was being sarcastic.
: >
: > It was also the favorite ENT episode in the recent online poll. I always
: > saw it as a pale imitation of "Inner Light."
: That's amazing. Why are there people that like something that objectively
: bad?
Well, "objectively bad" is a shaky concept at best, but in this case I
think it's because, compared to the rest of ENT, that one had actual
character development and acting, a shock at the time. Also a consistently
bleak tone that seemed more serious than what had gone before.
I mean, look in this very thread, all the people giving "Bound" 4 stars
because they're nostalgic for green chicks. Taste is pretty ridiculous in
most quarters.
Shawn
Shawn H
: Shawn H <shill#@fas.harvard.edu> said:
: [ re 'Twilight" ]
Okay, I have no clue where you're getting "it didn't suck so much." It
looks like I said it in the quoting hierarchy, but I didn't. "Inner Light"
is one of my favorite TNG eps, no suckage at all, and an acting tour de
force for Stewart.
Shawn
Shawn H
: > In rec.arts.startrek.current ANIM8Rfsk <ANIM...@cox.net> wrote:
: > : in article 1113689035.1...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com,
: > : mdic...@seds.lpl.arizona.edu at mdic...@seds.lpl.arizona.edu wrote on
: > : 4/16/05 3:03 PM:
: >
: > : > 3.9. A decent little fan boy story with a cute twist at the end to tide
: > : > us over until the REAL Mirror universe story arc begins next week. BTW
: > : > I LOVE the glimpse of the CGI Defiant at the end of the promo there!
: > : > -Mike
: > : >
: >
: > : I screamed in horror at how awful their TOS ship looked, and we only saw it
: > : for literally a second. This is the best argument imaginable against
: > : redoing the fx in the classic series with the poor quality low end stuff
: > : Enterprise has been feeding us.
: >
: > Because still photos collaged in by hand are so much more convincing?
: um . . . lost me there Shawn.
I'll try again. How is the CGI and model work done now inferior to the
still photos and painted mattes of the 1960s show by any scale?
Shawn
Paul Vader
>And they used a completely different technique. The TOS ships had to touch
>and actually spun a web. These guys just connect light beams and don't need
>to get anywhere near each other to initiate the web. And they only shoot
Simple fanwank - just like the mirror enterprise was more advanced because
of stolen tech, so could the mirror tholians be.
>and very different technique. The podcast admitted they changed it just to
>make it faster.
I just downloaded that this morning - I'm looking forward to watching the
episode again with it turned on.
>Of course the question remains -- why did the Tholians suck in a TOS ship?
>Wasn't there a Mirror Defiant to grab? Where did the Mirror Defiant go?
Destroyed in battle maybe, or redeployed to fight an insurrection led by a
halfbreed vulcan with bad facial hair?
The mirror universe rules don't require that everyone and everything have
a living analog - this was especially true in the DS9-era mirror universe,
where for example the Defiant (the DS9 defiant) wasn't built until a
crossover gained them the plans. *
--
* PV something like badgers--something like lizards--and something
like corkscrews.
Paul Vader
>Because they (the MU) don't have Constitution class starships yet. IIRC they
>said that not only had been pulled from another dimension but had also been
>pulled from another time.
You're going for a time paradox thing, right? I hate temporal paradoxes,
but it kind of works. *
Paul Vader
>Except that that CGI Defiant made for this episode has barely visible (on
>the front leading edge of the saucer) lines. You can't even really see the
Guys. Those lines had *better* be there - they're the bulkheads of the
exterior compartments, if I remember the Franz Josef plans correctly. Look
at any warship for example - you see thin lines all over the place where
the hull plates are bolted (or riveted) to flanges on the bulkheads and
welded together.
We all had the AMT kits as kids (Mine hang in my bedroom for something like
15 years, until my cat got sick of it one day and destroyed it, doing I
jump I had no idea she had in her), and we all loved them, but they were
pretty crappy. Until now, I didn't even know that the Constellation was
modeled by an AMT kit - I assumed it was another big wooden model like the
original. No wonder it looked wrong. *