[DS9] Lynch's Spoiler Review: "The Siege of AR-338"
Timothy W. Lynch
beyond the next ridge.
In brief: A decent war movie, but is it Trek?
======
Written by: Ira Steven Behr & Hans Beimler
Directed by: Winrich Kolbe
Brief summary: Sisko and company temporarily join the front lines to
help hold a Dominion communications array against the Jem'Hadar.
======
"The Siege of AR-338" was a very odd episode. While it managed to
be quite powerful in brief moments (particularly much of the final act),
the episode also left a lot of its points unresolved and changed its
players around quite a bit. It left the distinct impression that Behr &
Beimler created a very decent war film which happens to be under the
Trek name, but no more.
"The Siege of AR-338," as you might guess, concerns itself with a
planetoid in disputed space called AR-338. Our heroes make a supply
run there, and then Sisko decides that they're going to stick around to
help the platoon ride out another Jem'Hadar assault. In the early
stages of the episode, we meet four of the platoon's major members:
commander-of-the-moment Lt. Nadia Larkin (Annette Helde), soldiers
Reese (Patrick Kilpatrick) and Vargas (Raymond Cruz), and Kellin
(Bill Mumy), an engineer who's been working on decoding a
Dominion communications array for a while.
As a setup for a crisis, I've definitely seen worse -- but there were a
lot of moments which felt so familiar as to be stereotypical. One of
them is Reese's necklace. It's made from tubes of Jem'Hadar 'white'
taken from Jem'Hadar Reese killed. Now, that's certainly a valid
image -- but we've seen almost *exactly* the same thing from DS9
before, namely in the person of a Klingon who wore a necklace made
of Cardassian neck bones. A slightly different motif might have been
nice here.
Then, there are the four soldiers. In terms of writing, only two
characters even attempted to rise above their stock characterizations:
Reese and Kellin. Vargas was the typical "swaggering Marine who's
really terrified and wants to go home," and was played so amazingly
over the top that I was really cringing most of the time he was on
screen. Larkin wasn't actively unpleasant, but she made no real
impression on me at all. Reese and Kellin were definitely better, quite
possibly because I was familiar with and like the work of both actors
-- even there, though, there were too many moments which
telegraphed what lay ahead. (For instance, Kellin and Ezri strike up a
friendship, and the conversation turns to Ezri's lack of combat
experience. Kellin tells her very seriously, "You'll do fine." In war-
movie terms, that's basically holding up a sign saying "One of Us is
Going to Die.")
By far, the most interesting scenes on a character level were those
involving Quark. As the sole non-Federation and viewpoint on AR-
338, he had a very different perspective on the whole situation, and
one which was interesting to see. I particularly liked his point to Nog
that "if the Federation had listened to the Ferengi Alliance, there never
would have *been* a war" because the Ferengi would have found a
compromise which would have suited everyone. Nog's response that
things weren't that easy is undoubtedly true, but it makes sense that
Quark would see things in terms of negotiations and not battle, and his
complete distaste for all things military made an interesting
counterbalance for how gung-ho Nog was being.
The odd thing, though, is how little actual resolution there was, and I
don't get the feeling that it was because ends were intentionally left
loose. There was no real *character* resolution at all, with the
possible exception of Sisko. Think about it: we get several intense
conversations between Quark and Nog, and also between Quark and
Sisko. In both cases, Quark is adamantly opposed to what he sees as
needless brutality and sending his nephew into dangerous missions,
while Sisko and Nog try to convince him that it's just the military life.
All well and good. But after the battle is over and the dust has settled,
did we get any sense that opinions have shifted at all, or even that any
of the Quark/Sisko/Nog triad thought about what other members were
saying? So far as I can tell, everything was just dropped: there
wasn't even any scene with dialogue between Quark and Nog after
Nog's wounding, and after Sisko harshly tells Quark how much he
cares for his soldiers the two never have a scene together. I certainly
don't think there needs to be any huge shift in viewpoint after a battle,
but I got the sense that the dialogue wasn't even heard by anyone but
the viewer. That's a shame.
Even the Big Event of the show, Nog's loss of his leg, falls victim to
this lack of focus. There's plenty of emotion about his loss for the
first scene or two after he's wounded -- Quark's anger, Sisko's mixed
emotions, and so on. However, after that, all any viewer coming in
would know is that he's wounded. Is there any sense that Nog has
been affected by this apart from the physical? No. Did Nog's loss
change the situation or the characters in any way? As with some of
the debate in the show then, I almost get the sense that this was put in
because *something* had to happen, and this would have substantial
shock value. I'd hate to think Nog was injured only for shock value,
but there was so little examination of the issue after the fact that I'm
worried that's exactly what we got.
There were certainly plenty of things I did like about the show, but
they were more SF trappings than they were essential to the point.
The Dominion's mines (aptly named "Houdinis," since if you find one
you disappear) were an interesting idea, and the moment in which
Kellin and Ezri expose them all was one of those "now *that* is cool"
situations we come to expect on occasion. The final battle with the
Jem'Hadar was handled extremely well, particularly the cuts to Quark,
the music, and Sisko's vision wavering in and out as he's about to
lose consciousness. Despite all of my problems with the show, most
of that last act is a must-watch.
In the end, though, I'm left to agree with Quark. He tells Nog early
on, "This isn't the Starfleet that you knew," and he's right. We've
seen this side of Starfleet before, most particularly in "Nor the Battle
to the Strong" two years ago. The difference is that "Nor the
Battle..." dealt with Jake's reaction to combat and the line he drew
between courage and cowardice. There, at least one character learned
a great deal from the experience. Here, so far as I can tell, no one did
-- we just got a war story, with questionable tactics and no lessons
learned. (Yes, Sisko says that he has to remember the dead aren't just
names -- but he's learned that lesson before, most notably in "The
Ship.") While "just a war story" can be interesting on occasion, given
the series to date I've come to expect a lot more.
Other comments:
-- I had problems watching Bill Mumy as Kellin. After five years of
watching Mumy play Lennier on B5, I was hearing Lennier most of
the time. The phrasing was different and the body language was
*very* different, but Mumy's voice just sounded too familiar.
-- It was nice to see Patrick Kilpatrick again. He's played one-shot
but significant roles in four different SF shows now (Voyager, DS9,
B5, and the late "Nowhere Man"), and he's always interesting. This
is, incidentally, the first time of the four that he's played a non-
villainous role; must be the heavy brows.
-- The final Jem'Hadar assault seemed odd on two different fronts.
First, I wonder why they didn't shroud themselves; it seems an
obvious weapon to use. Second, we have never, *ever*, heard
Jem'Hadar yell before or during a battle before; that's part of what
makes them effective soldiers. Perhaps it added to the war-movie
atmosphere, but it sure didn't strike me as the Jem'Hadar we knew.
-- For once, I thought Vic Fontaine's music was put to a good use late
in the show. (As Lisa put it, "Listening to Vic is guaranteed to whip
people up into a battle frenzy!") I could absolutely have done without
the Vic scene at the beginning, though -- particularly anything
involving Rom singing.
-- I was thinking about the ending, with Reese the only major player
from the platoon to survive. It seems a bit cliched, but I'm trying to
figure out what *wouldn't* be at this point. If they all die, it's been
done countless time; if none of the majors die, it's a cheat; if just one
token character dies, it's been done; what's left? (Maybe if they went
half and half, but this is starting to get silly.)
-- I liked the final scene with Reese a lot; for some reason, seeing him
watch the troop replacements coming in seemed powerful.
That about covers it. If you like war for war's sake and typical war-
movie messages, "The Siege of AR-338" is definitely one for you. If
not ... well, it has its moments, but not enough to feel right.
Wrapping up:
Writing: Lots of interesting issues in spots, with absolutely no
resolution of any kind. Hmph.
Directing: Compelling in places, particularly the final battle -- no real
complaints anywhere.
Acting: Cruz was *way* over the top; Kilpatrick was quite good, and
most of the rest were reasonable.
OVERALL: Call it a 6 for what *is* said and done; the rest is
frustrating, but what's there is worth a 6.
NEXT WEEK:
We finally see what Dukat's been up to all these months.
Tim Lynch (Harvard-Westlake School, Science Dept.)
tly...@alumni.caltech.edu <*>
"He has his orders, Quark."
"That is so easy for you to say -- but I bet you wouldn't send *Jake*
out there."
"Jake is not a Starfleet officer."
-- Sisko and Quark
--
Copyright 1998, Timothy W. Lynch. All rights reserved, but feel free to ask...
This article is explicitly prohibited from being used in any off-net
compilation without due attribution and *express written consent of the
author*. Walnut Creek and other CD-ROM distributors, take note.
Havoc
:
: The odd thing, though, is how little actual resolution there was, and I
: loose. There was no real *character* resolution at all, with the
: possible exception of Sisko. Think about it: we get several intense
: conversations between Quark and Nog, and also between Quark and
: Sisko. In both cases, Quark is adamantly opposed to what he sees as
: needless brutality and sending his nephew into dangerous missions,
: while Sisko and Nog try to convince him that it's just the military life.
: All well and good. But after the battle is over and the dust has settled,
: did we get any sense that opinions have shifted at all, or even that any
: of the Quark/Sisko/Nog triad thought about what other members were
: saying? So far as I can tell, everything was just dropped: there
: wasn't even any scene with dialogue between Quark and Nog after
: Nog's wounding, and after Sisko harshly tells Quark how much he
: cares for his soldiers the two never have a scene together. I certainly
: don't think there needs to be any huge shift in viewpoint after a battle,
: but I got the sense that the dialogue wasn't even heard by anyone but
: the viewer. That's a shame.
I really don't think there was any resolution left to be had. (From my
understanding, there will be a followup episode about Nog's loss of the
leg). I doubt anybody's viewpoint was changed by the events. The message
of the episode was clear: "War is Hell." Usually, Star Trek has a
tendency to sterilize violence and war. A few phaser blasts from a
Starship, and it's all over. Fortunately it hasn't been used lately, but
in TOS and some TNG, phasers vaporized the enemy, making the violence even
more cartoonish. This episode made a simple statement.. that war is an
horrible and ugly thing. The moral was simple... *Real* lives get lost in
war. I wouldn't expect any serious shift in Sisko's or Quark's viewpoint.
There were both right at the beginning of the episode, they were both
right at the end. For Sisko, the meaning of the lives being lost was
reinforced. For Quark, the horror and high cost of the war, and probably
his opposition to it, was reinforced.
:
: In the end, though, I'm left to agree with Quark. He tells Nog early
: on, "This isn't the Starfleet that you knew," and he's right. We've
: seen this side of Starfleet before, most particularly in "Nor the Battle
: to the Strong" two years ago. The difference is that "Nor the
: Battle..." dealt with Jake's reaction to combat and the line he drew
: between courage and cowardice. There, at least one character learned
: a great deal from the experience. Here, so far as I can tell, no one did
: -- we just got a war story, with questionable tactics and no lessons
: learned. (Yes, Sisko says that he has to remember the dead aren't just
: names -- but he's learned that lesson before, most notably in "The
: Ship.") While "just a war story" can be interesting on occasion, given
: the series to date I've come to expect a lot more.
As I said... I don't think there was really anything to learn beyond the
very simple message that war hurts real people. A message so obvious,
that it didn't require a huge epilogue scene of discussion.
:
: Wrapping up:
:
: Writing: Lots of interesting issues in spots, with absolutely no
: resolution of any kind. Hmph.
Really nothing to resolve. Perhaps the only resolution needed can be
found in the exchange between Nog and Sisko.. when Nog asks if the array
is worth it, and Sisko answers, "I hope so."
It is a question more for the viewers than for the characters. A question
about the price of war.
Paul R. Stoetzer
=B^)
I normally agree with T. Lynch, but I have to disagree with this review
in several points. Review clipped in parts.
Timothy W. Lynch wrote:
>
> WARNING: Spoilers for DS9's "The Siege of AR-338" lie just
> beyond the next ridge.
>
> In brief: A decent war movie, but is it Trek?
Yes, but not in the same form as we have seen in the past. This episode
showed how war can change happiness to sadness, not only drawing on what
the collective audience knows about war in general, but how we have seen
the war affect this crew, and those who have had to deal with far worse
conditions than our DS9 regulars.
(snip)
> "The Siege of AR-338" was a very odd episode.
> Beimler created a very decent war film which happens to be under the
> Trek name, but no more.
We've got a war going on in the Trek universe. This documents one of
the more intense fights. Consider "Rocks and Shoals" and the ethical
debates that went on there. Now look at our characters, one year later,
looking at casualty reports every day, Sisko seeing the biggest casualty
right next to him - Ezri Dax, a living reminder of a dead friend. Think
of how this might affect these officers. It showed how far they were
willing to go to survive and win this war. Anything less than what was
given might be watered down, resembling a fight along the lines of the
Smurfs vs. My Little Pony.
(snip)
> As a setup for a crisis, I've definitely seen worse -- but there were a
> lot of moments which felt so familiar as to be stereotypical. One of
> them is Reese's necklace. It's made from tubes of Jem'Hadar 'white'
> taken from Jem'Hadar Reese killed. Now, that's certainly a valid
> image -- but we've seen almost *exactly* the same thing from DS9
> before, namely in the person of a Klingon who wore a necklace made
> of Cardassian neck bones. A slightly different motif might have been
> nice here.
A different motif would have taken away from one major point. War
brings out the same feelings in everyone; Human and Klingon. It also
rings true what Quark said about humans being sweet and kind until
they're pushed to the limit, becoming more and more like Klingons. So
use the necklace reference as a bridge for comparison between human and
klingon, showing that we really aren't that much different when push
comes to shove... and Roddenberry seemed to want everyone to believe
that all species/races are equal, so this fits in with the Trek
philosophy from a certain point of view. (Gotta take the good with the
bad)
> Then, there are the four soldiers. In terms of writing, only two
> characters even attempted to rise above their stock characterizations:
> Reese and Kellin. Vargas was the typical "swaggering Marine who's
> really terrified and wants to go home," and was played so amazingly
> over the top that I was really cringing most of the time he was on
> screen.
Vargas was scared for his life, and didn't really care how others
perceived his actions. I thought he was a little excessive, but he was
pushed way too far. He struck me as the kind of guy to sign up with
Starfleet so he could go pimpin' at bars, but got stuck behind the
lines. I see this guy as totally believable.
> Larkin wasn't actively unpleasant, but she made no real
> impression on me at all.
I just got the impression that she was stressed to the breaking point,
and that death was a release for her. She struck me as someone who had
lost faith in herself, starfleet, the war... just about everything, and
that nothing came as a surprise to her considering with her recent
experience, if something could go wrong, it would.
> Reese and Kellin were definitely better, quite
> possibly because I was familiar with and like the work of both actors
> -- even there, though, there were too many moments which
> telegraphed what lay ahead. (For instance, Kellin and Ezri strike up a
> friendship, and the conversation turns to Ezri's lack of combat
> experience. Kellin tells her very seriously, "You'll do fine." In war-
> movie terms, that's basically holding up a sign saying "One of Us is
> Going to Die.")
Hey, its television, its gotta be at least a LITTLE cliche'
If it were Voyager, I'd expect Genma Saotome to run up behind her with a
sign, with "one of you is going to die" written in japanese with
subtitles underneath. (Ranma 1/2 reference, go rent it)
> By far, the most interesting scenes on a character level were those
> involving Quark. As the sole non-Federation and viewpoint on AR-
> 338, he had a very different perspective on the whole situation, and
> one which was interesting to see. I particularly liked his point to Nog
> that "if the Federation had listened to the Ferengi Alliance, there never
> would have *been* a war" because the Ferengi would have found a
> compromise which would have suited everyone. Nog's response that
> things weren't that easy is undoubtedly true, but it makes sense that
> Quark would see things in terms of negotiations and not battle, and his
> complete distaste for all things military made an interesting
> counterbalance for how gung-ho Nog was being.
Its good to see Quark finally caring about someone other than himself,
even if its only for his blood family. Thankfully he's still true to
form, not being overly sentimental, or overly selfless.
> The odd thing, though, is how little actual resolution there was, and I
> don't get the feeling that it was because ends were intentionally left
> loose. There was no real *character* resolution at all, with the
> possible exception of Sisko. Think about it: we get several intense
> conversations between Quark and Nog, and also between Quark and
> Sisko. In both cases, Quark is adamantly opposed to what he sees as
> needless brutality and sending his nephew into dangerous missions,
> while Sisko and Nog try to convince him that it's just the military life.
True, except Nog never lost a limb before this, and according to Bashir,
he may never get it back, or at least not the way it was. Nog may have
learned that talk is cheap, war is hell. The war once again has been
brought a bit too close to home, this time in a far more emotional
sense. When Jadzia died all we got to see were some pretty special
effects and then she said a few lines and kicked the bucket. Nothing
gut wrenching there. We get to *see* Nog's... stump, albeit under a
blanket, but still... he's been with the show since day one... a
character who started off as a theif, building his life up, following
his dream of joining Starfleet... to having his leg removed?? That's
gotta do some damage psychologically. And Sisko, the man who sponsored
his entry to Starfleet has to live with the decision of sending this boy
into this situation. And then theres the bit about the casualty
reports. In the beginning Sisko says the names are beginning to blend
together. Well, of course they are! Its not like he's spent a great
deal of time with any of these people that have died. There are no
faces to go with the names. Only a great overwhelming feeling for them
all as a collective. Understandable considering the individuals he is
in contact with for the most part are still alive. Exposure to the
ground war reminded him of something that he probably didn't forget, but
put to the back of his mind. Every one of those names belonged to an
individual... someone who had hopes and dreams and loves and needs and a
hell of a lot of tears, and each one of these people deserve at least a
moment for their names to be read individually. (Consider this next
time you visit a war memorial) There was a great deal of character
development, you just need to know where to look.
> All well and good. But after the battle is over and the dust has settled,
> did we get any sense that opinions have shifted at all, or even that any
> of the Quark/Sisko/Nog triad thought about what other members were
> saying? So far as I can tell, everything was just dropped: there
> wasn't even any scene with dialogue between Quark and Nog after
> Nog's wounding, and after Sisko harshly tells Quark how much he
> cares for his soldiers the two never have a scene together. I certainly
> don't think there needs to be any huge shift in viewpoint after a battle,
> but I got the sense that the dialogue wasn't even heard by anyone but
> the viewer. That's a shame.
Viewers don't need every piece of information tossed at them. We'd have
another episode of Voyager. Consider Voyager's last season finale.
After seeing Seven come to terms with and appreciate her humanity, we
have Janeway stating the obvious at the end with a statement like "oh,
so you're starting to accept your humanity, eh?" Yes, we figured it out
already, but thank you for showing us yet again your acute ability to
state the obvious. Some things are better left unsaid, or left to build
up for a larger conflict in a later episode.
> Even the Big Event of the show, Nog's loss of his leg, falls victim to
> this lack of focus. There's plenty of emotion about his loss for the
> first scene or two after he's wounded -- Quark's anger, Sisko's mixed
> emotions, and so on. However, after that, all any viewer coming in
> would know is that he's wounded.
If a viewer comes in at *that* point, then I'm sorry, but they should
wait for the rerun of the show or buy a watch so they can see the show
from the beginning. No more references needed to be made. The
emotional impact was there, especially if you've been watching the show
from the beginning and you've watched Nog's progress over the years.
> Is there any sense that Nog has
> been affected by this apart from the physical? No.
Give it time, there was still a fight to be fought, and Nog was probably
on Federation demerol.
> Did Nog's loss
> change the situation or the characters in any way? As with some of
> the debate in the show then, I almost get the sense that this was put in
> because *something* had to happen, and this would have substantial
> shock value. I'd hate to think Nog was injured only for shock value,
> but there was so little examination of the issue after the fact that I'm
> worried that's exactly what we got.
Its to show that the effects of war can be seen in *anyone*. Nog was
injured because he's not a regular cast member in a legal sense, but a
regular in an emotional sense. He's also very young and yes, it was a
way of pulling our heartstrings. If an adult had been hurt, perhaps we
wouldnt have thought much of it. They would have been in starfleet for
years, trained all their lives, and been ready to face death or
disfigurement at any time for what they believed in. Nog was able to
say it all very well, but he's just an Ensign, promoted from Cadet
during a war. He's greener than the jolly green giant! As such, he's
not prepared for the physical and emotional impact of such an injury.
So Nog was the perfect choice for this incident.
> There were certainly plenty of things I did like about the show, but
> they were more SF trappings than they were essential to the point.
> The Dominion's mines (aptly named "Houdinis," since if you find one
> you disappear) were an interesting idea, and the moment in which
> Kellin and Ezri expose them all was one of those "now *that* is cool"
> situations we come to expect on occasion.
I have to say I thought that was one of the best special effects of the
series, simply because it was so simple, yet so *real*. The glow from
the mine on Vargas' face was probably one of the simpler effects, but
it amazed me. And from a practical standpoint (assuming the technology
to hide mines in subspace exists) it simply made sense.
> The final battle with the
> Jem'Hadar was handled extremely well, particularly the cuts to Quark,
> the music, and Sisko's vision wavering in and out as he's about to
> lose consciousness. Despite all of my problems with the show, most
> of that last act is a must-watch.
I want the soundtrack to this episode. Now.
> In the end, though, I'm left to agree with Quark. He tells Nog early
> on, "This isn't the Starfleet that you knew," and he's right. We've
> seen this side of Starfleet before, most particularly in "Nor the Battle
> to the Strong" two years ago.
War is hell, and it changes people. So no, its not the Starfleet we're
used to, but if you knew someone who went to war and survived, no doubt
they changed considerably. In essence they are the same person, but
circumstances forced changes upon them. Same principle here.
> The difference is that "Nor the
> Battle..." dealt with Jake's reaction to combat and the line he drew
> between courage and cowardice. There, at least one character learned
> a great deal from the experience. Here, so far as I can tell, no one did
> -- we just got a war story, with questionable tactics and no lessons
> learned. (Yes, Sisko says that he has to remember the dead aren't just
> names -- but he's learned that lesson before, most notably in "The
> Ship.")
Lets find out what happens with Nog first, and remember, in "The Ship"
we weren't at war, he lost a few good people, who he can remember
easily. And that was an unusual circumstance then. Nowadays he looks
over lists of 1000-1730 names on a weekly basis.
> While "just a war story" can be interesting on occasion, given
> the series to date I've come to expect a lot more.
Like I said, you have to look a bit for the meaning, it can't simply be
handed to the viewer.
> Other comments:
>
> -- I had problems watching Bill Mumy as Kellin. After five years of
> watching Mumy play Lennier on B5, I was hearing Lennier most of
> the time. The phrasing was different and the body language was
> *very* different, but Mumy's voice just sounded too familiar.
At least you weren't thinking of Lost in Space. Although a scene with
the Robot running in screaming "Danger Ben Sisko! Danger!" would have
been immensely funny.
>
> -- The final Jem'Hadar assault seemed odd on two different fronts.
> First, I wonder why they didn't shroud themselves; it seems an
> obvious weapon to use.
They were *really* pissed off, and by the time the mines went off,
EVERYONE knew they were coming.
> Second, we have never, *ever*, heard
> Jem'Hadar yell before or during a battle before; that's part of what
> makes them effective soldiers.
Like I said, they were PISSED.
> Perhaps it added to the war-movie
> atmosphere, but it sure didn't strike me as the Jem'Hadar we knew.
The Jem'Hadar we knew never had their own weapons wipe out 30% of their
forces.
> -- For once, I thought Vic Fontaine's music was put to a good use late
> in the show. I could absolutely have done without
> the Vic scene at the beginning, though -- particularly anything
> involving Rom singing.
True, but I guess they needed to have a little more than Bashir
requesting the songs. And I suppose they wanted to show how kooshy
things are on the station, being able to audition as a singer while
people are dying by the thousands outside. Now as for Vic, he's aware
of himself as a hologram. Last time a hologram was self aware
(Moriarty) it tried to take over the Enterprise. Twice. Didn't O'Brien
think of it? How about Worf? Or Keiko? Or Molly? Ok, maybe Molly has
Crayola priorities...
(snip)
> Wrapping up:
>
> Writing: Lots of interesting issues in spots, with absolutely no
> resolution of any kind. Hmph.
DS9 never resolves their stories in single episodes... thats how the
show has always been. If we never hear anything about this again I'm
not going to be happy.
> OVERALL: Call it a 6 for what *is* said and done; the rest is
> frustrating, but what's there is worth a 6.
Sorry, gotta give it a 9.5, with a .5 loss due to commercials
interrupting the most amazing hour of television I've seen in years.
> NEXT WEEK:
>
> We finally see what Dukat's been up to all these months.
Was that station hovering over Waco, Texas?
Berserker
--
****************************************************
'Revolution' the People howls and cries
'Freedom, that's what we're needing'
We've needed it for centuries -
Our arteries are bleeding.
The stage is shaking. The audience rocks.
The whole thing is over by nine o'clock.
"When I was a young boy, I dreamed of being a baseball.
But today, I say we must move forward, not backward, upward,
not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling toward
freedom." - Kodos, Treehouse of Horror VII
''Even if you don't know what's going on, just knock someone out
and you can't go wrong." James Callier
Maureen Goldman
Berserker
Lynch, of course.
Timo S Saloniemi
>It is AR-558 not AR-338
And 558 was the episode number of "The Siege of..", in case somebody
didn't notice already. Now AR-338 would have been besieged before
the Bajoran wormhole opened in "Emissary"! :-P
Timo Saloniemi
Maureen Goldman
> > > You gave Holosuite a 9 and this a 6????
> > Maureen
> > "You" who?
> Lynch, of course.
[blush] That's what I get for not paying more attention to the subject
heading.
NoOneYouKnow
=B^) wrote in message <365F3E...@ix.netcom.com>...
[snip]
>True, except Nog never lost a limb before this, and according to Bashir,
>he may never get it back, or at least not the way it was. Nog may have
>learned that talk is cheap, war is hell. The war once again has been
>brought a bit too close to home, this time in a far more emotional
>sense. When Jadzia died all we got to see were some pretty special
>effects and then she said a few lines and kicked the bucket. Nothing
>gut wrenching there. We get to *see* Nog's... stump, albeit under a
>blanket, but still... he's been with the show since day one... a
>character who started off as a theif, building his life up, following
>his dream of joining Starfleet... to having his leg removed?? That's
>gotta do some damage psychologically. And Sisko, the man who sponsored
>his entry to Starfleet has to live with the decision of sending this boy
>into this situation.
I wonder if Nog's future is Star Fleet would be in jeopardy with the type of
injury he sustained? Any thoughts?
---JRE---
Victor Wong
NoOneYouKnow wrote in message ...
>I wonder if Nog's future is Star Fleet would be in jeopardy with the type
of
>injury he sustained? Any thoughts?
It would depend on how much the state of the art in prosthetic limbs has
progressed in the 24th century.
If Nog can manage a prosthetic leg with nothing more than a slight limp then
there shouldn't be any problems. I understand they still allow officers who
lose
limbs to stay in the military, even in combat readiness, provided certain
requirements
are met.
The one thing that would really tick people off would be if Dr. Bashir were
to
suddenly announce:
"Captain--we can rebuild him. We have the technology. We can make him
better than he was before--better ... faster ... stronger."
And if they got Harve Bennett to direct that, we'd be in REAL trouble.
:) :) :)
(Bonus points to those who figure out the allusion. :) )
Brian Langenberger
: Spoilers for "The Siege of AR-558"
: =B^) wrote in message <365F3E...@ix.netcom.com>...
: [snip]
: >True, except Nog never lost a limb before this, and according to Bashir,
: >he may never get it back, or at least not the way it was. Nog may have
: >learned that talk is cheap, war is hell. The war once again has been
: >brought a bit too close to home, this time in a far more emotional
: >sense. When Jadzia died all we got to see were some pretty special
: >effects and then she said a few lines and kicked the bucket. Nothing
: >gut wrenching there. We get to *see* Nog's... stump, albeit under a
: >blanket, but still... he's been with the show since day one... a
: >character who started off as a theif, building his life up, following
: >his dream of joining Starfleet... to having his leg removed?? That's
: >gotta do some damage psychologically. And Sisko, the man who sponsored
: >his entry to Starfleet has to live with the decision of sending this boy
: >into this situation.
: I wonder if Nog's future is Star Fleet would be in jeopardy with the type of
: injury he sustained? Any thoughts?
Picard survived quite nicely without a heart. And I think that's a bit
more vital and hard to replace than a leg. I'm sure starfleet medical can
come up with a prosthetic replacement that'll work as good as new (or at
least close).
It's the mental anguish I worry over, but I'm confidant Nog has the spine
and determination to make it through okay. And the struggle could make
him a better character for it, ultimately.
mumford
>
[snip]
>
>If Nog can manage a prosthetic leg with nothing more than a slight limp then
>there shouldn't be any problems. I understand they still allow officers who
>lose
>limbs to stay in the military, even in combat readiness, provided certain
>requirements
>are met.
>
>The one thing that would really tick people off would be if Dr. Bashir were
>to
>suddenly announce:
>
>"Captain--we can rebuild him. We have the technology. We can make him
>better than he was before--better ... faster ... stronger."
Hmm... the six million dollar ferengi. I like it. We'd have to get
Glen A. Larson to produce.
--
Glenn Lamb - mum...@netcom.com. Finger for my PGP Key.
Email to me must have my address in either the To: or Cc: field. All other
mail will be bounced automatically as spam.
PGPprint = E3 0F DE CC 94 72 D1 1A 2D 2E A9 08 6B A0 CD 82
Colin Rosenthal
>NoOneYouKnow (BogusA...@SpammersSuckBigTime.Com) wrote:
>: Spoilers for "The Siege of AR-558"
>
>
>: I wonder if Nog's future is Star Fleet would be in jeopardy with the type of
>: injury he sustained? Any thoughts?
>
>Picard survived quite nicely without a heart. And I think that's a bit
>more vital and hard to replace than a leg. I'm sure starfleet medical can
>come up with a prosthetic replacement that'll work as good as new (or at
>least close).
You sound a lot more sanguine about Nog's chances than Julian Bashir did.
But realistically, isn't current 1998 technology a lot closer to producing
a functional artificial heart than a functional artificial leg? People have
actually lived for some time with artificial hearts, but limbs which can
respond to commands from the brain are still in a very primitive state.
--
Colin Rosenthal
High Altitude Observatory
Boulder, Colorado
rose...@hao.ucar.edu
=B^)
>
> Maureen Goldman wrote:
>
> > Berserker <pe...@rhodes.edu> wrote:
> >
> > > You gave Holosuite a 9 and this a 6????
> >
>
> Lynch, of course.
I think it was to make a 69 of sorts...
=B^)
>
> A while ago, Victor Wong<VW...@netcom.ca> begot:
> >
> [snip]
> >
> >If Nog can manage a prosthetic leg with nothing more than a slight limp then
> >there shouldn't be any problems. I understand they still allow officers who
> >lose
> >limbs to stay in the military, even in combat readiness, provided certain
> >requirements
> >are met.
> >
> >The one thing that would really tick people off would be if Dr. Bashir were
> >to
> >suddenly announce:
> >
> >"Captain--we can rebuild him. We have the technology. We can make him
> >better than he was before--better ... faster ... stronger."
>
> Hmm... the six million dollar ferengi. I like it. We'd have to get
> Glen A. Larson to produce.
Only if David Hasselhoff signs on as Admiral Knight, flying the
NCC-2000K, USS KITT
Edward McArdle
(Brian Langenberger) wrote:
> It's the mental anguish I worry over, but I'm confidant Nog has the spine
> and determination to make it through okay. And the struggle could make
> him a better character for it, ultimately.
the important thing - and I haven't seen the episode yet - is did Nog
retrieve the leg and sell it?
--
Edward McArdle.
You need to alter my return address to reply to me.
http://www.ozemail.com.au/~mcardle
- me, my tennis club, photos, verses, a novel....
Robert Daniel Williams
Timothy W. Lynch <tly...@alumni.caltech.edu> wrote:
>In brief: A decent war movie, but is it Trek?
Do you ever get the feeling somebody, somewhere made an
episode for the sole purpose of getting to one particular
scene? That's what this episode felt like to me, except
it was two scenes. The scene with Sisko blinking in the face of a
Jem'Hadar and the scene where Sisko says, "We held," and
Reese (?) says, "Those were our orders, sir."
That last part also reminded me of the recent movie "Soldier."
In answer to your question above ("Is it Trek?"), the only
part of the episode that I felt was truly Trek was Reese
throwing down the knife and letting go. I felt I was watching
a Greek intellectual who's been convinced war is necessary, turned
himself into the required warrior, and is now gladly reverting back
to his non-violent attitudes.
>-- I liked the final scene with Reese a lot; for some reason, seeing him
>watch the troop replacements coming in seemed powerful.
>Copyright 1998, Timothy W. Lynch. All rights reserved, but feel free to ask...
>This article is explicitly prohibited from being used in any off-net
>compilation without due attribution and *express written consent of the
>author*. Walnut Creek and other CD-ROM distributors, take note.
daniel