Cronan Review of "The Ship" {DS9} (spoilers abound)
Cronan Thompson
Hello friends and detractors. Here is my weekly review of Star Trek's
continued slide into mediocrity. Usual I keep spoilers at a minimum but for
this ep I couldn't. If you liked this episode of DS9 prepare to find
yourself lost inside a maze of undeniable evidence that it sucked.
Spoiler Space
Oh how the mighty have gone mediocre. I didn't hate this episode but don't
expect me to jump for joy when they rerun it. It was another of those
episodes with a series of unbelievable coincidences and no real resolution.
Lets get specific Shall we?
In the opening the command crew(save Kira) of the space station defending
the wormhole enter the Gamma Quad( that place with the Jem' Hadar and those
pesky shapeshifters) with no protection outside of 1 runabout to survey a
planet for minerals. I don't know much about logic, not being Vulcan and
all, but it would seem to me that if you wanted to look for a place to dig
you would send some people with experience. Say a preschooler with a shovel
instead of a bunch of officers who don't know shit from shinola about
mines. Okay lets move on. Not a single Trek ep yet makes complete sense so
lets say they needed experienced warriors incase they encountered the
Dominion(but without the Defiant?!?!?).
A ship (hence the title) crashes and goes BOOM. The Runabout, which is
just chillin' in orbit instead of using it's powerful sensors close to the
ground searching for whatever it is they are searching for, beams Sisko and
Com. over to the crash. Well we all know that it is a Jem ship. I wanna ask
you, my intelligent readers, what the chances are that the one planet that
they have chosen to survey turns out to be the crash site of their enemies
warship out of the tens of hundreds of planets? Not very damn likely. But I
digress. Or runaway. Or do something to ignore this idiotic premise. So
they get to the ship and another Jem ship shows up and demands the return
of the other ship after it shoots down the The Runabout that was still
chillin'.
Oh I forgot to mention that inside the ship everything is upside down
'cause it crashed that way don't ya' know. Now Sisko gets inside the ship
after having most of landing party (including some guy who looked
suspicously like those babies in that movie They Live) shot dead and one
wounded. Course none of the stars are wounded.
The wounded guy, Menendez (a generic latin name), is bleeding instead of
dead. Hold on a minute. Back up don't most energy weapons KILL when set
that way? I have yet to see a phaser or disrupter set to kill not kill if
it hit. So who is gonna say the Jem's weapons were set to stun? Shouldn't
that bolt of blue energy that erupted most violently from a rather nasty
Jem gun have killed upon contact? Welllllllll we can give up one more
mistake. After all we have already forgiven the plot, the actions of the
Runabout, and why in all hell any of this happened in the first place.
Okay we got Jemmy on the right, Jemmy on the left, Jemmy in the Front, and
Jemmy in the back. What does Sisko do? He ahhhhhh....well I am not quite
sure why but he decides to try to launch a ship that just had some type of
failure that it's own crew couldn't fix. He must be taking lessons from the
Janeway book on "Commanding a Really go Nowhere Plot Without Even Trying."
I thought they might have a problem since none of them can read whatever
language the Jem read and it is upside down but they don't so I don't.
He proceeds to have two meetings with one those Jem 'Hadar keepers (Laruns
I think) and decides that he don't trust' em so he runs back inside while
the Jem begin shelling. This was never adequetly explained. Why did they
begin shooting for some ten straight hours (were did they get the ammo?)
for no reason but to scare a Klingon, a fed Captain, a 300 year old Trill
and a someone who has been in over 180 battle situations. All righty then.
of all the people who would be scared these are not them. Another of those
ignored mistakes.
Meanwhile back on Da' ship, Menendez is dying. This was actually a good
part. While he was dying Worf was willing to say out loud, "He's dead Jim."
O'Brien wanted no truck with it so he decided he could kick a 200 lbs
Klingon's ass. In a clumsy, at best, attack on Worf his fist is caught and
held by Worf. Dax makes a smart ass comment and Sisko goes off. He begins
preaching with those SUPER white teeth and every one gets scared. They all
go back to work and he then orders the dying guy to live.... Again I like
this part inspite of its slight campiness.
If you want campiness thought all you had to do was wait for a little
while longer. After an amazing repar job by the chief (on a ship he has
never seen before that is upside down in a language he shouldn't be able to
read) they try the engines but they actually work. But they don't have
enough power to get them out. It fuses something and they decide they have
to wait for the Defiant. Menedez dies.Good scene follows. Then Dax and
Sisko find out why they wouldn''t ddestroy the ship. There is a sick
changeling onboard. So it dies and the Jem kill themselves, how they know I
still don't get, because one of their gods died. Okay that made sense all
of what happens next is terrible. That Larun(sp?) lady BEAMS in. Hold it. I
mean stop right where you are. Why didn''t the Jem beam in and kill the
crew? huh? They knew where the Founder was so why not beam in shoot
everyone and then get high on white? Then she and Sisko realize they are
really friends and that the universe is really a giant cheese puff so they
should get to snackin'. She is then beamed out by one of the dead Jem'
Hadar. I am not going to tell you the rest because it is too depressing
other than they get the ship and Sisko ends the ep whinning to Dax. Hold on
I just told you the rest.... Oh well.
Other than thast it was a good ep. Sarcasm never has been one of my strong
suits.
Oh well lets hope the next one with Quark getting some Klingon nookie is
better. This is the first time That a Ds9 ep has been worse than the same
weeks Voyager. I am so depressed. It would have been so great if both were
good in one week. But they were both of medium quality with Voy coming out
on top.
God I hate Paramount.
--
Cronan Thompson
I keep hearing this voice telling me that
I'm an alcoholic, especially when I'm drinking.
Any misspellings in the abuve ritings are
halusinasions. Egnore dem!!!
OmniTRACS Hub
In article <01bbb72b$bbc75460$d88e92cf@default>, "Cronan Thompson"
<mal...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
<Long winded review deleted>
Well, I liked watching this episode much better than reading this review.
At least I was able to make it all the way through the episode. I can't
say that for this review.
Mitchell Stokes
Mst...@qualcomm.com
Cronan Thompson
I made to mistakes in this review. 1 is the name of the Jem' Hadar keepers
the other is the guy's name. It was Muniz. Sorry. Other than that I was
right.
> >the wormhole enter the Gamma Quad( that place with the Jem' Hadar and
those
> >pesky shapeshifters) with no protection outside of 1 runabout to survey
a
> >planet for minerals. I don't know much about logic, not being Vulcan and
> >all, but it would seem to me that if you wanted to look for a place to
dig
> >you would send some people with experience.
>
> It was plainly obviouis that O'Brien did in fact have some knowledge
> of minig. Plus the fact that Sisko's Science officer was there, made it
> seem logical enough to me!
Your right that does make perfect sense. Send a groups of people vital to
the defence of the Alpha quad to look more minerals in a place with
hostiles who would just as soon kill you as look at you. Your right I was
wrong. Makes sense know. Just because down on Bajor there are mining
experts heeling the Bajorans on their ravished world we shouldn't send
them.NOOOOOOOOOOO we can't have that
>
> > Say a preschooler with a shovel
> >instead of a bunch of officers who don't know shit from shinola about
> >mines.
> They were just loooking at the planets minerals. I"d say a tricorder
> and a science officer is all you'd need.
Why not just send them then?
> > A ship (hence the title) crashes and goes BOOM. The Runabout, which is
> >just chillin' in orbit instead of using it's powerful sensors close to
the
> >ground searching for whatever it is they are searching for, beams Sisko
and
> >Com. over to the crash.
> First things first. The Runabout's sensors were unable to determine
> what kind of ship it was, because of the plasma leaks and because of the
> ships hull structure. The only way to figure out what it was, was to
> visually identify it! You're deaf.
I didn't contradict any of what you just said. I didn't say they knew what
it was when they beamed over. You are the one who can't read. I simply said
that Sisko and crew beamed over to look at the wreck
> > Well we all know that it is a Jem ship. I wanna ask
> >you, my intelligent readers, what the chances are that the one planet
that
> >they have chosen to survey turns out to be the crash site of their
enemies
> >warship out of the tens of hundreds of planets? Not very damn likely.
>
> Then again, it may be a The FOunder's backup plan. You never know.
> They ran the eniter Martok thing for an entire season. Now there's this
> ship which is now in the hands of the Federation. Don't you think it
would
> have been too easy? It's like giving the plans of the B2 bomber to
Iraq!!!
> Come on. Something's up here!!
What Martok thing? Oh you mean the thing that they mad no hint to and
revealed in the end of AR that had zero effect on the series when revealed?
Just checking.
What Founder's back up plan? To let one of there own die? Okay I am
backing away slowly. No sudden moves. Don't think(like you ever have) about
going for that thought your mom wrote and put in your back pocket.
>
> > But I
> >digress. Or runaway. Or do something to ignore this idiotic premise.
>
> Open your mind to new possibilities here!! If you've been reading
> the newsgroups for a while now, you'll notice that the first 10 eps of
DS9
> are of a style never attempted before in Trek. Just wait.
WRONG. They canceled that. Paramount said no. Not only that but they are
also forced to cut back on 2 parters. And you just know so much it. The
mind wobbles
>
> > So
> >they get to the ship and another Jem ship shows up and demands the
return
> >of the other ship after it shoots down the The Runabout that was still
> >chillin'.
>
> Shoot before demanding return. It was obvious that eh J'H thought
> that all the Feds were in the Runabout and not on the surface. Then they
> discovered Sisko.
Did I say they did it before? No I said AFTER. Read more carefully. They
couldn't have thought all the feds were on the surface for 3 reasons
1. The runabout began to turn
2. There was an active subspace link between Sisko and the crew on the
Runabout
3. The Jem have scanners. I like this one. It just blows you in the asss
don't it?
>
> > The wounded guy, Menendez (a generic latin name), is bleeding instead
of
> >dead.
>
> GET THE NAME RIGHT! It's Muniz! Also, he WAS NOT hit directly. His
> side was grazed by the J'H phased polaron beams. It was clearly seen
that
> he was NOT hit directly.
Sorry about the name. I heard it wrong. We have seen several times that
when you are hit anywhere by a Trek weapon set to kill you die. And the Jem
clearly wanted the Fed dead. It doesn't matter where. You die. That simple.
Not wounded, not ruffed up, dead. We've seen a Jem kill with one of those
little things before and it hit the guy about the same place it hit Muniz.
>
> > Hold on a minute. Back up don't most energy weapons KILL when set
> >that way? I have yet to see a phaser or disrupter set to kill not kill
if
> >it hit. So who is gonna say the Jem's weapons were set to stun?
Shouldn't
> >that bolt of blue energy that erupted most violently from a rather nasty
> >Jem gun have killed upon contact? Welllllllll we can give up one more
> >mistake. After all we have already forgiven the plot, the actions of the
> >Runabout, and why in all hell any of this happened in the first place.
>
> He was grazed.
Se my previous point. HOw are you grazed by a a burst of energy anyway?
>
> > Okay we got Jemmy on the right, Jemmy on the left, Jemmy in the Front,
and
> >Jemmy in the back. What does Sisko do? He ahhhhhh....well I am not quite
> >sure why but he decides to try to launch a ship that just had some type
of
> >failure that it's own crew couldn't fix.
>
> It was a core breach. HELLO. It's been stated for now 2 seasons
> that the J'H have a VERY different style of engineering and technology
than
> the Federation. They can transport through shields, and pretty much
> anything else, plus they have what looks like a personal subspace
transporter.
Ohhhhhhhh so who told you this about this personal subspace whoyamajiggie?
I am so glad you have all this knowledge they have never mentioned anywhere
on the entire show. Since when have they transported through sheilds by the
way? The episode where the rogue Jem attack the station they bring down
the sheilds before beoming in. Well if you say it it must be true
> I'd attempt to launch the ship as well. The J'H wouldn't shoot
> them down, but Sisko would.
Well I am glad your not on the same ship as me. You probably have me as
dead as Muniz.
>
> >I thought they might have a problem since none of them can read whatever
> >language the Jem read and it is upside down but they don't so I don't.
>
> But Kirk and company were able to fly their BOP from Vulcan to
> Earth without knowing how to read Klingon.
That always bothered me. But at least they had weeks to get familiar with
the systems(inbetween ST 2 and ST 3).
Plus if you were listening and
> watching a little more closely, you would have realized that they knew
> NOTHING about the J'H systems, but were using trial and error to figure
> out what each system did. You're deaf AND blind.
Oh and that was real smart. Well this ship almost blew up BUT lets poke a
button or two and see what happens. Say I get on my chinese friend's
computer. His computer is set for chinese. So I look at a totally
unfamiliar interface and.... begin pressing buttons? Okay. Sorry Keyw Tze,
I didn't realize that was the self distruct command. Not deaf or blind just
pointing out how monumentally stupid that was.
>
> > He proceeds to have two meetings with one those Jem 'Hadar keepers
> (Laruns I think)
>
> You HAVEN'T been watching DS9 for very long, huh? What the hell are
> Laruns? The Jem'Hadar "keepers" as you put it are called the Vorta.
They
> work VERY closely with the Founders themselves and have powerful
telekinetic
> abilities.
I always have trouble with names. Sorry. But they have used there powers
only once and we don't know that they really have them. The one Vorta we
saw use those powers turned out to be lying the whole time. It could have
been a special hologram created by the collar. We never found out exactly
what it was anyway
>
> > and decides that he don't trust' em so he runs back inside while
> >the Jem begin shelling. This was never adequetly explained. Why did they
> >begin shooting for some ten straight hours (were did they get the ammo?)
>
> They wanted to rattle them. To drive them insane! Wouldn't you if
> there was shelling above you constantly on and off for the better part of
> the day? And it was plainly obvious that they were getting on edge.
Oh yeah okay. So your saying inspite of knowledge that the Feds had this
training they wasted ammo on the ground around the ship
> Where did they get the ammo? Who know how much ammo the J'H ships
> can hold!! They could be similar to the Federation Micro torpedoes.
> Or they can be concussive energy blasts, which don't have to be
replenished,
> as long as their conduits don't burn out.
Okay that's it . You want to justify everything away. It don't hold water.
didn't you hear(I am not the only deaf one appearently) Sisko say "Shells".
I did and I am deaf
>
> >for no reason but to scare a Klingon, a fed Captain, a 300 year old
Trill
> >and a someone who has been in over 180 battle situations. All righty
then.
> >of all the people who would be scared these are not them. Another of
those
> >ignored mistakes.
>
> People are trained to not go insane in situations like that. Otherwise
> our men on the Western Front during WW I would have gone nuts VERY
quickly.
Already took care of this one.
>
> > Menendez is dying.
>
> It's Muniz!
Whatever
>
> > If you want campiness thought all you had to do was wait for a little
> >while longer. After an amazing repar job by the chief (on a ship he has
> >never seen before that is upside down in a language he shouldn't be able
to
> >read) they try the engines but they actually work. But they don't have
> >enough power to get them out. It fuses something and they decide they
have
> >to wait for the Defiant.
>
> They do have sufficient power, but the engines weren't aligned and
> that would have caused a core breach. iThey used trial and error to
figure
> out most of the systems. So what if things are upside down. That's no
> problem...
Back to my point. How, using trial and error, do you figure out the
workings and repair a ship you've never been before in alnuage you can't
read with upside down panels
>
> >Good scene follows. Then Dax and
> >Sisko find out why they wouldn''t ddestroy the ship. There is a sick
> >changeling onboard. So it dies and the Jem kill themselves, how they
know I
> >still don't get, because one of their gods died.
>
> They could hear his screams from the outside, or did you miss that
> part??
How do you hear screams through the hull of an air tight warship. Don't
tell me there was hole either. Or how was Sisko going to take off? and how
does a pile of jello scream???
>
> > Okay that made sense all
> >of what happens next is terrible. That Larun(sp?) lady BEAMS in. Hold
it. I
> >mean stop right where you are. Why didn''t the Jem beam in and kill the
> >crew? huh?
>
> You really and truly are a dipshit. The VORTA beams in because
> the Founder is now dead and so are the rest of her men. This episode was
> about trust -- a trust neith side had of each other. Why didn't the J'H
> beam in? You must have lost your hearing at some point in the show,
right?
> The J'H are programmed to protect the Changeling at all costs. They
can't
> kill one. Also, if the J'H came in firing, they risk killing the
Founder.
> That's NOT what they want to do.
Resorted to names have we? how unfortunate I was hoping you were arguing
cause you liked to debate no liked to insult. Anyway Trust my ass. This ep
was about Sisko trying to gain a tactical advantage. If he had trusted that
VORTA he would be dead. And as for ppoint about killing the Changeling...
we have seen that toxic gas don't affect changelings. Why not beam in a
bottle of Toxic gas or virus designed to kill humans another for the Trill
and another for the Klingon? AND they Sent that one Jem' in to find the
Changeling. He had a sensor that could probably detect a changeling. AND if
not that why not beam in where the Feds aren't and overpower them with
numbers? Or, and this is a goody, beam everyone out? Ahhhhhhhhh you see
what mean. Why, if she could beam in didn't she beam them into space or
outside the ship or anywhere but near the founder?
>
> >They knew where the Founder was so why not beam in shoot
> >everyone and then get high on white?
>
> Ummm...The founder is NOT DETECTABLE as a Changeling if he's/she's
> in a different form. If he choses to be part of a bulkhead, all sensors
would
> read is the bulkhead. They knew where he was from the remains!!!
Dipshit.
See above suggestions
> > Then she and Sisko realize they are
> >really friends and that the universe is really a giant cheese puff so
they
> >should get to snackin'.
>
> They're in no ways friends. They definitely didn't lo0ok like it
> either. Stop generalizing!
Stop calling me a dipshit. I am not generalizing just making light of
Sisko's terrible line.
>
> >She is then beamed out by one of the dead Jem'
> >Hadar.
>
> Dipshit. Subspace transporter!!!! She also has a ship somewhere
> on the planet or in orbit ya know!! They have the panel on their arm
which
> they just touch to transport!!!!
When did she touch anything? How do you know they have a subspace
transporter? If I am generalizing then you are reaching beyond what common
sense will allow.
>
> > Other than thast it was a good ep. Sarcasm never has been one of my
strong
> >suits.
>
> Neither is listening or watching...It's quite obvious, you look for
> faults in the episodes and not really watch closely enough to notice the
> subtleties in the episode. Their that, or you haven't been watching DS9
> for the last 2 years, to notice that this episode had a LOT of material
> that was based on previous episodes -- all the way back 2 years ago at
the
> end of season 2. You HAVE NOT been watching for long, or else you'd
NEVER
> have made so many blatant mistakes about this episode.
I made two mistakes. Vorta and Muniz. No others. You have made several.
Pot. Kettle. Black. Sound familiar?
> Stop prejudging DS9 and throwing out your whines and prattles about
> the characters and past event you so obviously know nothing about. It
make
> you look really stupid!!
I wrote a review of the ep that I thought was going to be the greatest
ever but turned out to be average at best. Sorry you liked. I know more
about Ds9 than most and far more than you. If you knew as muc habout it as
I did then you would have noticed the inconsistencies, the errors, and out
and out fuck-ups in this ep.
You still think they are doing the ten interlinked episode. Which of us is
behind. I made an error in a couple of names. My fault. You wanted to see
great so you saw great. You wanted to overlook the mistakes in this ep and
the bad lines that Sisko had. Fine. I don't. I expect more quality from my
DS9. I love the show. Hated this ep. I don't appreciate being called a
dipshit by a person who watches Trek with his common sense turned off.
Don't do it. It makes YOU look stupid
Dany'l Munksgaard
In article <01bbb7b5$55c29640$858f92cf@default>
"Cronan Thompson" <mal...@worldnet.att.net> writes:
> snippity-do-dah <
Cronan, I'm curious:
What is your point in any of this? You're acting like a little kid
trying to pick a fight. You flame anyone who disagrees with you, you
rant and rave about the most pointless and worn trivialities (I'd like
to hear you make *one* criticism that hasn't been used a thousand times
before), and you just generally make an ass out of yourself in front of
thousands of people every day.
And anytime, *anytime* someone tries to point this out to you, no
matter how gently, you go insane. The poster you just replied to you
referred to you constantly as "dipshit." Normally, I'd see this as
unnecessarly harsh and unproductive. In *your* case, I'm starting to
think *no* flame is too harsh. I'm honestly considering investing in a
killfile for the first time, just because of you.
Am I saying this because I can't take a joke? Hardly; smart asses can
be great fun, if done properly (e.g. King of Internet). Am I saying
this because I can't take somebody criticising Trek? No, criticism is a
healthy thing. Tim Lynch is probably one of the most level headed
people on the group, and he spares nothing. But it's *intelligent*
criticsim. Hell, even Frank Hummel is at least articulate about his
ranting.
*You*, on the other hand, are proving yourself to be little more than
an inarticulate, illiterate, beligerant *boob.* I recommend you stop
posting and start lurking for a few months, then change your name and
try things a bit more rationally for a change. Face it, my friend,
almost *nobody listens to you anymore.*
Dwell well.
----
Dany'l Munksgaard - mu...@inetnebr.com
(another useless philosophy major)
"A witty saying proves nothing." --Voltaire
Mark Ehlert
I ended up skimming the review myself.
But one thing I want to point out: according to Joe Reiss' SOS ratings
post, Cronan gave this episode a 9.5 (out of 10).
--
Once more unto the breach, dear friends...
(Shakespeare: "Henry V", III/1)
Mark K. Ehlert
Alcuin Library
College of St. Benedict/St. John's University
J Shah
Cronan Thompson (mal...@worldnet.att.net) wrote:
: Hello friends and detractors. Here is my weekly review of Star Trek's
: continued slide into mediocrity. Usual I keep spoilers at a minimum but for
: this ep I couldn't. If you liked this episode of DS9 prepare to find
: yourself lost inside a maze of undeniable evidence that it sucked.
: Spoiler Space
...spoilers ahead...
...spoilers...
: Other than thast it was a good ep. Sarcasm never has been one of my strong
: suits.
: Oh well lets hope the next one with Quark getting some Klingon nookie is
: better. This is the first time That a Ds9 ep has been worse than the same
: weeks Voyager. I am so depressed. It would have been so great if both were
: good in one week. But they were both of medium quality with Voy coming out
: on top.
:
: God I hate Paramount.
:
:-- Cronan Thompson
Folks, it's times like this that make me appreciate Tim Lynch all the
more.
-jai
===============================================================================
"...We shall not cease from exploration; and the end of all our exploring
will be to arrive where we started -- and know the place for the first
time..."
--T.S. Eliot
Jai Shah js...@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca
===============================================================================
Bryan E. Esquire
In article <01bbb72b$bbc75460$d88e92cf@default>,
Cronan Thompson <mal...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>the wormhole enter the Gamma Quad( that place with the Jem' Hadar and those
>pesky shapeshifters) with no protection outside of 1 runabout to survey a
>planet for minerals. I don't know much about logic, not being Vulcan and
>all, but it would seem to me that if you wanted to look for a place to dig
>you would send some people with experience.
It was plainly obviouis that O'Brien did in fact have some knowledge
of minig. Plus the fact that Sisko's Science officer was there, made it
seem logical enough to me!
> Say a preschooler with a shovel
>instead of a bunch of officers who don't know shit from shinola about
>mines.
They were just loooking at the planets minerals. I"d say a tricorder
and a science officer is all you'd need.
> A ship (hence the title) crashes and goes BOOM. The Runabout, which is
>just chillin' in orbit instead of using it's powerful sensors close to the
>ground searching for whatever it is they are searching for, beams Sisko and
>Com. over to the crash.
First things first. The Runabout's sensors were unable to determine
what kind of ship it was, because of the plasma leaks and because of the
ships hull structure. The only way to figure out what it was, was to
visually identify it! You're deaf.
> Well we all know that it is a Jem ship. I wanna ask
>you, my intelligent readers, what the chances are that the one planet that
>they have chosen to survey turns out to be the crash site of their enemies
>warship out of the tens of hundreds of planets? Not very damn likely.
Then again, it may be a The FOunder's backup plan. You never know.
They ran the eniter Martok thing for an entire season. Now there's this
ship which is now in the hands of the Federation. Don't you think it would
have been too easy? It's like giving the plans of the B2 bomber to Iraq!!!
Come on. Something's up here!!
> But I
>digress. Or runaway. Or do something to ignore this idiotic premise.
Open your mind to new possibilities here!! If you've been reading
the newsgroups for a while now, you'll notice that the first 10 eps of DS9
are of a style never attempted before in Trek. Just wait.
> So
>they get to the ship and another Jem ship shows up and demands the return
>of the other ship after it shoots down the The Runabout that was still
>chillin'.
Shoot before demanding return. It was obvious that eh J'H thought
that all the Feds were in the Runabout and not on the surface. Then they
discovered Sisko.
> The wounded guy, Menendez (a generic latin name), is bleeding instead of
>dead.
GET THE NAME RIGHT! It's Muniz! Also, he WAS NOT hit directly. His
side was grazed by the J'H phased polaron beams. It was clearly seen that
he was NOT hit directly.
> Hold on a minute. Back up don't most energy weapons KILL when set
>that way? I have yet to see a phaser or disrupter set to kill not kill if
>it hit. So who is gonna say the Jem's weapons were set to stun? Shouldn't
>that bolt of blue energy that erupted most violently from a rather nasty
>Jem gun have killed upon contact? Welllllllll we can give up one more
>mistake. After all we have already forgiven the plot, the actions of the
>Runabout, and why in all hell any of this happened in the first place.
He was grazed.
> Okay we got Jemmy on the right, Jemmy on the left, Jemmy in the Front, and
>Jemmy in the back. What does Sisko do? He ahhhhhh....well I am not quite
>sure why but he decides to try to launch a ship that just had some type of
>failure that it's own crew couldn't fix.
It was a core breach. HELLO. It's been stated for now 2 seasons
that the J'H have a VERY different style of engineering and technology than
the Federation. They can transport through shields, and pretty much
anything else, plus they have what looks like a personal subspace transporter.
I'd attempt to launch the ship as well. The J'H wouldn't shoot
them down, but Sisko would.
>I thought they might have a problem since none of them can read whatever
>language the Jem read and it is upside down but they don't so I don't.
But Kirk and company were able to fly their BOP from Vulcan to
Earth without knowing how to read Klingon. Plus if you were listening and
watching a little more closely, you would have realized that they knew
NOTHING about the J'H systems, but were using trial and error to figure
out what each system did. You're deaf AND blind.
> He proceeds to have two meetings with one those Jem 'Hadar keepers
(Laruns I think)
You HAVEN'T been watching DS9 for very long, huh? What the hell are
Laruns? The Jem'Hadar "keepers" as you put it are called the Vorta. They
work VERY closely with the Founders themselves and have powerful telekinetic
abilities.
> and decides that he don't trust' em so he runs back inside while
>the Jem begin shelling. This was never adequetly explained. Why did they
>begin shooting for some ten straight hours (were did they get the ammo?)
They wanted to rattle them. To drive them insane! Wouldn't you if
there was shelling above you constantly on and off for the better part of
the day? And it was plainly obvious that they were getting on edge.
Where did they get the ammo? Who know how much ammo the J'H ships
can hold!! They could be similar to the Federation Micro torpedoes.
Or they can be concussive energy blasts, which don't have to be replenished,
as long as their conduits don't burn out.
>for no reason but to scare a Klingon, a fed Captain, a 300 year old Trill
>and a someone who has been in over 180 battle situations. All righty then.
>of all the people who would be scared these are not them. Another of those
>ignored mistakes.
People are trained to not go insane in situations like that. Otherwise
our men on the Western Front during WW I would have gone nuts VERY quickly.
> Menendez is dying.
It's Muniz!
> If you want campiness thought all you had to do was wait for a little
>while longer. After an amazing repar job by the chief (on a ship he has
>never seen before that is upside down in a language he shouldn't be able to
>read) they try the engines but they actually work. But they don't have
>enough power to get them out. It fuses something and they decide they have
>to wait for the Defiant.
They do have sufficient power, but the engines weren't aligned and
that would have caused a core breach. iThey used trial and error to figure
out most of the systems. So what if things are upside down. That's no
problem...
> Menedez dies.
Muniz.
>Good scene follows. Then Dax and
>Sisko find out why they wouldn''t ddestroy the ship. There is a sick
>changeling onboard. So it dies and the Jem kill themselves, how they know I
>still don't get, because one of their gods died.
They could hear his screams from the outside, or did you miss that
part??
> Okay that made sense all
>of what happens next is terrible. That Larun(sp?) lady BEAMS in. Hold it. I
>mean stop right where you are. Why didn''t the Jem beam in and kill the
>crew? huh?
You really and truly are a dipshit. The VORTA beams in because
the Founder is now dead and so are the rest of her men. This episode was
about trust -- a trust neith side had of each other. Why didn't the J'H
beam in? You must have lost your hearing at some point in the show, right?
The J'H are programmed to protect the Changeling at all costs. They can't
kill one. Also, if the J'H came in firing, they risk killing the Founder.
That's NOT what they want to do.
>They knew where the Founder was so why not beam in shoot
>everyone and then get high on white?
Ummm...The founder is NOT DETECTABLE as a Changeling if he's/she's
in a different form. If he choses to be part of a bulkhead, all sensors would
read is the bulkhead. They knew where he was from the remains!!! Dipshit.
> Then she and Sisko realize they are
>really friends and that the universe is really a giant cheese puff so they
>should get to snackin'.
They're in no ways friends. They definitely didn't lo0ok like it
either. Stop generalizing!
>She is then beamed out by one of the dead Jem'
>Hadar.
Dipshit. Subspace transporter!!!! She also has a ship somewhere
on the planet or in orbit ya know!! They have the panel on their arm which
they just touch to transport!!!!
> Other than thast it was a good ep. Sarcasm never has been one of my strong
>suits.
Neither is listening or watching...It's quite obvious, you look for
faults in the episodes and not really watch closely enough to notice the
subtleties in the episode. Their that, or you haven't been watching DS9
for the last 2 years, to notice that this episode had a LOT of material
that was based on previous episodes -- all the way back 2 years ago at the
end of season 2. You HAVE NOT been watching for long, or else you'd NEVER
have made so many blatant mistakes about this episode.
Stop prejudging DS9 and throwing out your whines and prattles about
the characters and past event you so obviously know nothing about. It make
you look really stupid!!
--
--
===============================================================================
Marc Escuro [R] They reach into your room,
Bryan E. Esquire Just feel their gentle touch.
bas...@cats.ucsc.edu When all hope is gone, you know
http://www2.ucsc.edu/~bashir/ Sad Songs say so much
===============================================================================
Dany'l Munksgaard
Date: 11 Oct 1996 22:04:37 GMT
Organization: I wish.
Lines: 40
Sender: -Not-Authenticated-[3261]
Message-ID: <53mg9l$k...@hawk.inetnebr.com>
References: <01bbb72b$bbc75460$d88e92cf@default>
<53m0m6$5...@darkstar.ucsc.edu> <01bbb7b5$55c29640$858f92cf@default>
NNTP-Posting-Host: lin-pm4-026.inetnebr.com
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Xdisclaimer: No attempt was made to authenticate the sender's name.
Xref: faerealm.com rec.arts.startrek.current:85963 rec.arts.startrek.misc:29544
Paul S. Manson
Brava! Brava! Brava!
I couldn't have said it better myself if I had sat down and written it
after many hours of thoughtful consideration.
I, however, have already resorted to the "killfile". <gdr>
Paul
Tod Abbott
In article <53nrp6$2...@post.servtech.com>, mu...@inetnebr.com (Dany'l
Munksgaard) wrote:
> Date: 11 Oct 1996 22:04:37 GMT
> Organization: I wish.
> Lines: 40
> Sender: -Not-Authenticated-[3261]
> Message-ID: <53mg9l$k...@hawk.inetnebr.com>
> References: <01bbb72b$bbc75460$d88e92cf@default>
> <53m0m6$5...@darkstar.ucsc.edu> <01bbb7b5$55c29640$858f92cf@default>
> NNTP-Posting-Host: lin-pm4-026.inetnebr.com
> X-Posted-From: InterNews 1...@lin-pm4-026.inetnebr.com
> Xdisclaimer: No attempt was made to authenticate the sender's name.
> Xref: faerealm.com rec.arts.startrek.current:85963
rec.arts.startrek.misc:29544
>
> In article <01bbb7b5$55c29640$858f92cf@default>
> "Cronan Thompson" <mal...@worldnet.att.net> writes:
>
> > snippity-do-dah <
>
> Cronan, I'm curious:
>
> What is your point in any of this? You're acting like a little kid
> trying to pick a fight. You flame anyone who disagrees with you, you
> rant and rave about the most pointless and worn trivialities (I'd like
> to hear you make *one* criticism that hasn't been used a thousand times
> before), and you just generally make an ass out of yourself in front of
> thousands of people every day.
It has been clear to me for some time that Cronan simply likes the
attention. If we ignore him and his antics, maybe he will crawl back to
his crib and finally take a nap.
Of course, by posting this, I'm just giving him a bit more attention, but
I won't do it again.
Tod Abbott.
jdwiseman
Dany'l Munksgaard wrote:
>
> In article <01bbb7b5$55c29640$858f92cf@default>
> "Cronan Thompson" <mal...@worldnet.att.net> writes:
>
> > snippity-do-dah <
>
> Cronan, I'm curious:
>
> What is your point in any of this? You're acting like a little kid
> trying to pick a fight. You flame anyone who disagrees with you, you
> rant and rave about the most pointless and worn trivialities (I'd like
> to hear you make *one* criticism that hasn't been used a thousand times
> before), and you just generally make an ass out of yourself in front of
> thousands of people every day.
>
> matter how gently, you go insane. The poster you just replied to you
> referred to you constantly as "dipshit." Normally, I'd see this as
> unnecessarly harsh and unproductive. In *your* case, I'm starting to
> think *no* flame is too harsh. I'm honestly considering investing in a
> killfile for the first time, just because of you.
>
> Am I saying this because I can't take a joke? Hardly; smart asses can
> be great fun, if done properly (e.g. King of Internet). Am I saying
> this because I can't take somebody criticising Trek? No, criticism is a
> healthy thing. Tim Lynch is probably one of the most level headed
> people on the group, and he spares nothing. But it's *intelligent*
> criticsim. Hell, even Frank Hummel is at least articulate about his
> ranting.
>
> *You*, on the other hand, are proving yourself to be little more than
> an inarticulate, illiterate, beligerant *boob.* I recommend you stop
> posting and start lurking for a few months, then change your name and
> try things a bit more rationally for a change. Face it, my friend,
> almost *nobody listens to you anymore.*
>
> Dwell well.
> ----
>
Sorry to post only five or so lines on the end ot this, but I just had
to add that I agree totally. Totally. TOTALLY. I'm not trying to
insult Cronan (though it will definitely appear so and though I am
tempted), but he comes across as nothing more than a child to me, trying
to provoke a response. It seems I have caved to him.
jd
Christopher B. Stone
In article <53mg9l$k...@hawk.inetnebr.com>,
Dany'l Munksgaard <mu...@inetnebr.com> wrote:
>Hell, even Frank Hummel is at least articulate about his ranting.
Ooooo, that was a low blow. Accurate, but low.
--
Chris Stone * cbs...@princeton.edu * http://www.princeton.edu/~cbstone
"In the long history of the world, only a few generations have been
granted the role of defending freedom in its hour of maximum danger.
I do not shrink from this responsibility. I welcome it." -JFK
Jeff
In article <map_pc-1110...@hubmac1.qualcomm.com>, map...@qualcomm.com
says...
>
>In article <01bbb72b$bbc75460$d88e92cf@default>, "Cronan Thompson"
><mal...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>
>Well, I liked watching this episode much better than reading this review.
>At least I was able to make it all the way through the episode. I can't
>say that for this review.
I'd have to say that episode was on of my favourits. And I agree, that review
didn't give it justice. I think Cronan should go back and watch it in the
reruns.
Jeff
David Coley
Cronan Thompson wrote:
>
> I made to mistakes in this review. 1 is the name of the Jem' Hadar keepers
> the other is the guy's name. It was Muniz. Sorry. Other than that I was
> right.
>
[To Much Junk to Repost....Snip Snip]
> I wrote a review of the ep that I thought was going to be the greatest
> ever but turned out to be average at best. Sorry you liked. I know more
> about Ds9 than most and far more than you. If you knew as muc habout it as
> I did then you would have noticed the inconsistencies, the errors, and out
> and out fuck-ups in this ep.
> You still think they are doing the ten interlinked episode. Which of us is
> behind. I made an error in a couple of names. My fault. You wanted to see
> great so you saw great. You wanted to overlook the mistakes in this ep and
> the bad lines that Sisko had. Fine. I don't. I expect more quality from my
> DS9. I love the show. Hated this ep. I don't appreciate being called a
> dipshit by a person who watches Trek with his common sense turned off.
> Don't do it. It makes YOU look stupid
>
> --
>
> Cronan Thompson
>
> I keep hearing this voice telling me that
> I'm an alcoholic, especially when I'm drinking.
>
> Any misspellings in the abuve ritings are
> halusinasions. Egnore dem!!!
>
Man, this guy sounds just like that old story.
A person went to a musical, sat back and listened to music, the singing
and left happy and glad he came
Another person went to the same musical, laughed when the band hit a G
instead of the E. Became angry when the lead missed a beat. He left
angry and demanding his money back.
***
I'm starting to think this guy loves to see the glass half empty instead
of half full.
--
David Coley - Game Master of the USS Devanchya
david...@durhamnews.net
http://www.durhamnews.net/~ulc272/
David Coley
Dany'l Munksgaard wrote:
>
> In article <01bbb7b5$55c29640$858f92cf@default>
> "Cronan Thompson" <mal...@worldnet.att.net> writes:
>
> > snippity-do-dah <
>
> Cronan, I'm curious:
>
> What is your point in any of this? You're acting like a little kid
> trying to pick a fight. You flame anyone who disagrees with you, you
> rant and rave about the most pointless and worn trivialities (I'd like
> to hear you make *one* criticism that hasn't been used a thousand times
> before), and you just generally make an ass out of yourself in front of
> thousands of people every day.
>
> And anytime, *anytime* someone tries to point this out to you, no
> matter how gently, you go insane. The poster you just replied to you
> referred to you constantly as "dipshit." Normally, I'd see this as
> unnecessarly harsh and unproductive. In *your* case, I'm starting to
> think *no* flame is too harsh. I'm honestly considering investing in a
> killfile for the first time, just because of you.
>
> Am I saying this because I can't take a joke? Hardly; smart asses can
> be great fun, if done properly (e.g. King of Internet). Am I saying
> this because I can't take somebody criticising Trek? No, criticism is a
> healthy thing. Tim Lynch is probably one of the most level headed
> people on the group, and he spares nothing. But it's *intelligent*
> ranting.
>
> an inarticulate, illiterate, beligerant *boob.* I recommend you stop
> posting and start lurking for a few months, then change your name and
> try things a bit more rationally for a change. Face it, my friend,
> almost *nobody listens to you anymore.*
>
> Dwell well.
> ----
> (another useless philosophy major)
> "A witty saying proves nothing." --Voltaire
Cronan, listen to this guy (or gal), he (or she) has taken the time to
think carefuly and wheigh his (or her) words. Dany'l has finaly said
nicely what so many of us have thought to say in a mail bomb. Be glad
that Dany'l surfaced with words of wisdom... And listen to his (or her)
words. ***YOU HAVE MADE THIS WHOLE GROUP WISH YOU NEVER SAY ANOTHER
WORD!***
Georgiana Gates
Tod Abbott wrote:
> It has been clear to me for some time that Cronan simply likes the
> attention. If we ignore him and his antics, maybe he will crawl back to
> his crib and finally take a nap.
>
> Of course, by posting this, I'm just giving him a bit more attention, but
> I won't do it again.
>
> Tod Abbott.
Do you think we could all chip in and buy Cronan a spelling checker?
Franklin Hummel
In article <53nrp6$2...@post.servtech.com> mu...@inetnebr.com
>Am I saying this because I can't take a joke? Hardly; smart asses can
>be great fun, if done properly (e.g. King of Internet). Am I saying
>this because I can't take somebody criticising Trek? No, criticism is a
>healthy thing. Tim Lynch is probably one of the most level headed
>people on the group, and he spares nothing. But it's *intelligent*
>criticsim. Hell, even Frank Hummel is at least articulate about his
>ranting.
-- Franklin Hummel [ hum...@netcom.com ]
--
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
* NecronomiCon, 3rd Edition: The Cthulhu Mythos Convention *
August 15-17, 1997 - Providence, Rhode Island
For info: http://www.oneworld.net/sf/companies/necropress/necronomicon.html
Valheru
Keep it up Cronan....I like your reviews and the heated responses you get when you
criticize Trek. <g> I'd like to remind people that he did give "Remember" a good
review, which it deserved, its the best V'GER ep. in a very long time.
However, "The Ship" was embarassing, I would truely be impressed if anyone could come up
with a credible reason why the Jem'Hadar didn't just beam Sisko and crew outta the ship.
No muss, no fuss.....
James Bowman
> Of course, by posting this, I'm just giving him a bit more attention, but
> I won't do it again.
be devious, y'all. Not only do I ignore any post he sends, I also
ignore any topic he's responding to (since he can never say the
right thing and in general the static-to-content ratio goes way up
as the temperature rises). And he does like to start a lot of
new threads, to showcase his "talents".
The best way to defeat Cronan: intelligent writing and debate,
with restraint and good natured humor. It might be hard for him
to survive in those rarified heights.
James Bowman
DS9
Valheru <val...@flash.net> wrote:
Ditto..
Excellent ep, with one flaw..
Forget those who flame you Cronan, I like your reviews..
DS9
Julian Herring
> Man, this guy sounds just like that old story.
>
> A person went to a musical, sat back and listened to music, the singing
> and left happy and glad he came
>
> Another person went to the same musical, laughed when the band hit a G
> instead of the E. Became angry when the lead missed a beat. He left
> angry and demanding his money back.
>
> ***
>
> I'm starting to think this guy loves to see the glass half empty instead
> of half full.
>
> David Coley - Game Master of the USS Devanchya
>
Julian wrote:
i have to agree with u on that David,
personally this was a great episode...I was expecting a "Voyager screwed
interface of point liess acting" but nope What we got was a crew left
stranded with only their personal resources and being taken to the
limit. Deaths occurred and was remembered not some "well there goes
Yeoman Johnson" ( i know "Ensign...giving props to TOS)
Anyway.....realistic battle. 1 Jem Hadar took out 2 adversaries.
Sisko had a lines that he really had to pull from but was squashed in
the last act in opinion.
Tension between the crewman were expected and royally pulled off.
Great Ass episode.
Julian