SV+ Supergirl (Kara) Added to Smallville
KalElFan
This isn't really in the nature of a spoiler because it'll be a major
part of all the promotion for season 7.
"... When Smallville returns for its seventh season this fall
it will be revealed that Clark Kent (Tom Welling) is not the
only member of his family to survive the destruction of the
planet Krypton. His cousin Kara “was sent to Earth in a ship
that arrived at the same time as baby Kal-El’s,” reveals
executive producer Al Gough, referring to Clark by his
Kryptonian name. “But there was a problem and she’s been
in suspended animation for the last 16 years...”
“She has all of Clark’s powers and a couple he doesn’t have
yet,” Gough teases. “She can fly..."
Kara, a teenager when Krypton exploded, was sent to Earth by
her father, Zor-El (Kal-El’s uncle), to look after her younger cousin.
But while in suspended animation she didn’t age and now it’s Clark
who must be the mentor...
Now a few comments. Smallville has become such a mess that the
"too little, too late" and "Oh, no, they're going to mess up another
DC character..." reaction is tough to suppress. But if I try to be fair
and not taint this latest news with the last three seasons of mostly
dreck that Smallville became (the first half of season 5 and a few
eps here or there excepted), I think they got the basic concept here
exactly correct. If they're introducing Supergirl, the Kara version and
the way they've described it is a close to perfect way of doing that.
The article has a few iffy things in the implementation. The dam
breaking in the season 6 finale is what releases Kara from her
suspended animation. That's a bit low concept, but perhaps
Lex Luthor and his shady government backers actually discovered
the capsule in orbit months ago or whatever, and were trying to
figure out how to revive her when all heck broke loose at the dam.
Maybe we then get Kara helping out Clark to defeat Bizarro, so
it's a good introduction to her and season 7.
A Gough quote in the interview also alludes to them basically using
her as a fish out of water character who gets enamored with our
culture including iPods. Some will wince at the advertising aspect
and it also screams using a dying Smallville series in a handoff or
"please watch our upcoming Supergirl spin-off" way. But again, if
this had been the pitch at the end of season 3, instead of the faux
Supergirl they did at that time, the prospect of a sequel would be
much more interesting and welcome I think. The skepticism now
is more a reflection of seasons 4 to 6 than it is about the concept
itself. Inherently, I've always thought a Kara spinoff or version of
Smallville was the best bet they had, it's just that the last three
seasons have been a kind of poison pill that makes it a tougher
sell now.
I think it'll be a better draw than the "Smallville's becoming a Small
League" series pitch last season, but Smallville itself is what needs
fixing and I think the off-season promotion needs to address that.
If it did -- if this Supergirl introduction isn't just the best diversion
they have to mask or draw attention away from a broken Smallville
that they have no real plan to fix -- then it could help turn Smallville
around rather than just be a hand-off to a try at something better.
Vartox
> [note crossposts]
>
> This isn't really in the nature of a spoiler because it'll be a major
> part of all the promotion for season 7.
>
>
> "... When Smallville returns for its seventh season this fall
> it will be revealed that Clark Kent (Tom Welling) is not the
> only member of his family to survive the destruction of the
> planet Krypton. His cousin Kara "was sent to Earth in a ship
> that arrived at the same time as baby Kal-El's," reveals
> executive producer Al Gough, referring to Clark by his
> Kryptonian name. "But there was a problem and she's been
> in suspended animation for the last 16 years..."
>
> "She has all of Clark's powers and a couple he doesn't have
> yet," Gough teases. "She can fly..."
Can Justine Bateman and Roger Daltrey be far behind...???
Vartox
David
masonReloaded
Great, another character to take the focus off Clark - the series has
been on for 6 years, Clark should be coming into his own by now, well
on his way to full-blown Superman status, instead, hes more indecisive
and weak than ever. Give Clark his flight, have him proactively
stopping crimes etc - Lex has developed well on his way to being a
full-blown hero, he just needs a final push, but Clark needs to really
step up to the plate.
badth...@yahoo.com
>
> This isn't really in the nature of a spoiler because it'll be a major
> part of all the promotion for season 7.
>
These are sloooow people. I can't believe it took them seven years to
realize they could have a spin-off show with Supergirl.
And like Smallville, it will blow, blow, blow.. For example: what
about that poor girl the Jor El Computer Cave kidnapped and gave
powers to? The blonde one who thought her name was Kara? Yeah, god
forbid you wrap that up.
Vic Vega
It's not like the comics side of that exquasion fared any better. D.C.
didn't realize Supergirl was a marketing bonanza until AFTER they
killed her off in Crisis, IIRC.
> And like Smallville, it will blow, blow, blow.. For example: what
> about that poor girl the Jor El Computer Cave kidnapped and gave
> powers to? The blonde one who thought her name was Kara? Yeah, god
> forbid you wrap that up.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
What I like about the show is how NEARLY EVERY OTHER CHARACTER ON THE
SHOW seems more proactive than Clark is.
Tony
--huh?
A marketing bonanza? None of SG's books prior to Crisis sold well.
Tony
Bill Steele
badth...@yahoo.com wrote:
> These are sloooow people. I can't believe it took them seven years to
> realize they could have a spin-off show with Supergirl.
Shades of the Six Million Dollar Man and Bionic Woman: a way to make the
same show twice.
But no, they can't make a spinoff show with Supergirl, because Supergirl
doesn't have the iconic status of Superman. Much of Smallville is
driven by the fact that we already know the future of the characters.
Anyway, this would sound more like My Super Ex-Girlfriend.
> "She has all of Clark's powers and a couple he doesn't have
> yet," Gough teases. "She can fly..."
Hasn't he been watching the show...?
Jeri Jo Thomas
(badth...@yahoo.com) stepped to the mic and said...
> And like Smallville, it will blow, blow, blow.. For example: what
> about that poor girl the Jor El Computer Cave kidnapped and gave
> powers to? The blonde one who thought her name was Kara? Yeah, god
> forbid you wrap that up.
>
Uh, didn't they find a newspaper article that that girl was actually
dead, and she was released from Jor-El's thrall when they faced him with
it?
--
Jeri Jo & Little Garcia Bear
KalElFan
news:1181585229....@q69g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> These are sloooow people. I can't believe it took them seven years
> to realize they could have a spin-off show with Supergirl.
>
> And like Smallville, it will blow, blow, blow.. For example: what
> about that poor girl the Jor El Computer Cave kidnapped and gave
> powers to? The blonde one who thought her name was Kara?
> Yeah, god forbid you wrap that up.
Cynicism is deserved given the show's track record for most of
the last three seasons, but I've noted in the 5 or 6 quips or posts
so far that the cynicism hasn't been attacking the specific concept
they've described. Your point is a fair one, but one hopes that the
so-called "Jor-El" avatar of Kara from season 3 will be dealt with.
Clark should be wondering about that when he meets his "cousin"
Kara. The first one wasn't acting like his cousin.
This new Kara is perfectly set up to propel the whole Krypton
backstory and some of the problems there. She's experienced it.
The last 16 years of her life -- her recent memories ending just
yesterday, from her point of view -- is of Krypton up to the time
of its destruction. If, as many of us speculated, "Jor-El" was
often a corrupted (probably by Zod) program, and Swann did
receive one of the two messages -- the "rule Earth" one -- not
from Jor-El but Zod, then this Kara ought to be able to help
Clark (and we the viewers) fill in those blanks. She could even
be used by the writers to help retcon the awful end of season 2,
where Clark willingly shot up on Red K and robbed banks. As
with the murderous avatar Kara, the corrupted Jor-El program
could be revealed to have played a part in that.
So she can be a tremendously useful character to Smallville,
not just sequel fodder though she'd also be that. There's no
particular reason to believe they'll capitalize on it as much as
the very good premise they've described allows them to, but
it has the potential to be PART of a major positive turning
point for the series.
ebrian
>
> This isn't really in the nature of a spoiler because it'll be a major
> part of all the promotion for season 7.
>
Hey, I mean no disrespect to the fans of the show. I myself am a huge
fan of the show, and I have no intention to stop watching the show.
But man, has it really been 7 years already? Gosh I was just
thinking, if you put together all the quality episodes, would it even
add up to a single season? Again don't get me wrong I do watch it and
I love it, but the fact is there's just so many garbage episodes.. and
you're pointing out it's been 7 year! Oh snap, what a waste of time!
YKW '06
electrons to communicate as follows:
>> These are sloooow people. I can't believe it took them seven years to
>> realize they could have a spin-off show with Supergirl.
>
> It's not like the comics side of that exquasion fared any better. D.C.
> didn't realize Supergirl was a marketing bonanza until AFTER they
> killed her off in Crisis, IIRC.
In fairness, the fanbase didn't realize how important the character was
either until after she was lost. The failed backdoor attempts to either
bring her back surreptitiously (Sensor Girl) or create pastiches
(Matrix/Earth Angel, Superwaif) only managed to make the real thing even
more popular. (Which was, obviously, hardly DC's goal.)
>> And like Smallville, it will blow, blow, blow.. For example: what
>> about that poor girl the Jor El Computer Cave kidnapped and gave
>> powers to? The blonde one who thought her name was Kara? Yeah, god
>> forbid you wrap that up.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> What I like about the show is how NEARLY EVERY OTHER CHARACTER ON THE
> SHOW seems more proactive than Clark is.
>
Again, in fairness, Welling simply isn't talented enough an actor to
convey proactivity and intelligence. He can handle brooding, confusion
and panic well enough, but the writers aren't stupid enough to give him
more than he can handle.
It has, however, the sad effect of making SMALLVILLE-Clark a shallow and
craven coward lacking the courage to Do The Right Thing in =any=
situation where he has another option, no matter how idiotic, how self-
serving or how hurtful to the people he allegedly cares for that option
may be.
--
------------------- ------------------------------------------------
|| E-mail: ykw2006 ||"The mystery of government is not how Washington||
|| -at-gmail-dot-com ||works but how to make it stop." -- P.J. O'Rourke||
|| ----------- || ------------------------------------ ||
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------------------- ------------------------------------------------
Vic Vega
> On Jun 11, 1:28?pm, Vic Vega <Mikejones...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jun 11, 2:07 pm, badthin...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > > On Jun 11, 12:33 pm, "KalElFan" <kalelfanNOS...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > [note crossposts]
>
> > > > This isn't really in the nature of a spoiler because it'll be a major
> > > > part of all the promotion for season 7.
>
> > > >http://community.tvguide.com/blog-entry/TVGuide-Editors-Blog/Tv-Guide...
>
> > > > ? it will be revealed that Clark Kent (Tom Welling) is not the
> > > > ? only member of his family to survive the destruction of the
> > > > ? planet Krypton. His cousin Kara "was sent to Earth in a ship
> > > > ? that arrived at the same time as baby Kal-El's," reveals
> > > > ? executive ?producer Al Gough, referring to Clark by his
> > > > ? Kryptonian name. "But there was a problem and she's been
> > > > ? in suspended animation for the last 16 years..."
>
> > > > ? "She has all of Clark's powers and a couple he doesn't have
> > > > ? yet," Gough teases. "She can fly..."
>
> > > > ? Kara, a teenager when Krypton exploded, was sent to Earth by
> > > > ? her father, Zor-El (Kal-El's uncle), to look after her younger cousin.
> > > > ? But while in suspended animation she didn't age and now it's Clark
> > > > ? who must be the mentor...
>
> > > > Now a few comments. ?Smallville has become such a mess that the
> > > > "too little, too late" and "Oh, no, they're going to mess up another
> > > > and not taint this latest news with the last three seasons of mostly
> > > > dreck that Smallville became (the first half of season 5 and a few
> > > > eps here or there excepted), I think they got the basic concept here
> > > > the way they've described it is a close to perfect way of doing that.
>
> > > > breaking in the season 6 finale is what releases Kara from her
> > > > Lex Luthor and his shady government backers actually discovered
> > > > the capsule in orbit months ago or whatever, and were trying to
> > > > figure out how to revive her when all heck broke loose at the dam.
> > > > Maybe we then get Kara helping out Clark to defeat Bizarro, so
> > > > it's a good introduction to her and season 7.
>
> > > > A Gough quote in the interview also alludes to them basically using
> > > > her as a fish out of water character who gets enamored with our
> > > > and it also screams using a dying Smallville series in a handoff or
> > > > this had been the pitch at the end of season 3, instead of the faux
> > > > Supergirl they did at that time, the prospect of a sequel would be
> > > > is more a reflection of seasons 4 to 6 than it is about the concept
> > > > Smallville was the best bet they had, it's just that the last three
> > > > seasons have been a kind of poison pill that makes it a tougher
> > > > sell now.
>
> > > > I think it'll be a better draw than the "Smallville's becoming a Small
> > > > League" series pitch last season, but Smallville itself is what needs
> > > > fixing and I think the off-season promotion needs to address that.
> > > > If it did -- if this Supergirl introduction isn't just the best diversion
> > > > they have to mask or draw attention away from a broken Smallville
> > > > that they have no real plan to fix -- then it could help turn Smallville
> > > > around rather than just be a hand-off to a try at something better.
>
> > > realize they could have a spin-off show with Supergirl.
>
> > It's not like the comics side of that exquasion fared any better. D.C.
> > didn't realize Supergirl was a marketing bonanza until AFTER they
> > killed her off in Crisis, IIRC.
>
> --huh?
> A marketing bonanza? None of SG's books prior to Crisis sold well.
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
I was taking about posters and T-shirts and the like, as Supergirl
like Wonder Woman, are two of the few female comic characters that are
recognizable to the larger public. Put Supergirl on something and
little girls will want it.
Wonder Woman never sold well pre-crisis either but it was kept around
for much the same reason.
Anim8rFSK
Vartox <var...@aol.com> wrote:
Hah! And Ron Ely!
Grimm-RHD
wrote:
> On 11 Jun 2007, Vic Vega <Mikejones...@aol.com> re-ordered random
I didn't like the idea of Smallville when it was first announced. I
still don't like it now. I said then, why would I want to see my
favorite superhero turned into Dawson's Creek? Which is exactly what
happened.
Smallville can curl up and die for all I care now.
Grimm-RHD
Grimm-RHD
> <badthin...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
"A major positive turning point for the series"?!? It's been 7
years! We are WAY past looking for a positive turning point. Right
now they should be looking for ANYTHING positive. But is it any
wonder why? Gough and Millar had never picked up a comic before this
series, and as they did research on the comics, picked and rearranged
what they liked. They knew damn well that all they cared about was
reaching the 7th Heaven or Dawson's Creek crowd. Thus all the teenage
whining crap that goes along with every other show the WB had.
Even an average show lasting this long normally has a solid foundation
and their main characters pretty much done developing. Maybe even
getting started on wrapping up the series on a high note. Minus some
back story and a couple deaths, Clark is as green as the first
episode, and the story up until this point is mutilated beyond repair.
I had hopes that the Siegels would rip this shame of a show off the
air a few years back. Obviously that's a pipe dream at this point.
But what I wouldn't give to see this show end right now.
Grimm-RHD
badth...@yahoo.com
> On Mon, 11 Jun 2007 11:07:09 -0700 badthin...@yahoo.com
> (badthin...@yahoo.com) stepped to the mic and said...
>
> > And like Smallville, it will blow, blow, blow.. For example: what
> > about that poor girl the Jor El Computer Cave kidnapped and gave
> > powers to? The blonde one who thought her name was Kara? Yeah, god
> > forbid you wrap that up.
>
> Uh, didn't they find a newspaper article that that girl was actually
> dead, and she was released from Jor-El's thrall when they faced him with
> it?
>
> --
> Jeri Jo & Little Garcia Bear
Nope. We found out who she really was (she wasn't dead; her mom was
in an accident nearby), but at the end she got sucked back in and
hasn't been heard from since.
BC
"KalElFan" <kalelfa...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5d5bqcF...@mid.individual.net...
it take her and Clark and the entire JLA to bring down one spoiled bald kid
who has made ONE cyber soldier and is guarded by the Keystone Security
company? This is getting to be ridiculous.
BC
It could but Clark translated a similar message from the ship's heart.
Also, why didn't the first Kara reveal that he was sent with his sister?
Whey didn't the message from Krypton that Swann intercepted say that TWO
children were coming?
>
> So she can be a tremendously useful character to Smallville,
> not just sequel fodder though she'd also be that. There's no
> particular reason to believe they'll capitalize on it as much as
> the very good premise they've described allows them to, but
> it has the potential to be PART of a major positive turning
> point for the series.
IF they explain all the plotholes they make by introducing her.
>
>
>
Anlatt the Builder
> <badthin...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
TV shows rarely intorduce new characters for the primary purpose of
creating contrived explanations for past errors. For whatever reasons,
that's the province of the comic books themselves, and of fan
fiction.
Some of which is better than what we're seeing on TV, but that's
neither here not there....
Christopher M.
news:1181582585.1...@q69g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
I know how you feel. But maybe having someone to babysit, instead of Chloe
constantly babysitting him, will force Clark to grow up.
Don't get me wrong though. I like Chloe.
W. Pooh (AKA Winnie P.)
Duggy
> I didn't like the idea of Smallville when it was first announced. I
> still don't like it now. I said then, why would I want to see my
> favorite superhero turned into Dawson's Creek? Which is exactly what
> happened.
>
> Smallville can curl up and die for all I care now.
See I thought "Roswell with one alien instead of three".
But, then, I never watched Roswell because it was Dawson's Creek with
aliens... so you may be right.
===
= DUG.
===
Christopher M.
news:IYjbi.40140$5j1....@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net...
>
> And what will this Kara do? Fight off more meteor freaks and zoners?
> Will it take her and Clark and the entire JLA to bring down one spoiled
> bald kid who has made ONE cyber soldier and is guarded by the Keystone
> Security company? This is getting to be ridiculous.
Lex is a masterful tactician like Green Arrow.
He's also manipulative genius, and criminally insane.
Some believe that he can't be killed, unless it's by Superman (Justice
League Unlimited and the Naman/Sageeth myth on Smallville).
He could have Mxyzptlk under his thumb, someone who once had total control
over anyone in sound range.
And then there's Clark, with his sense of justice and duty. He'd never allow
Lex to be killed for his crimes. Without Lex Clark might become ruthless,
having no one to balance his power.
Anim8rFSK
Kristen Bell needs a job . . .
Kara:
http://files.blog-city.com/files/O05/148581/p/f/kristen_bell_shape_july11
_4.jpg
Linda Lee:
http://www.givememyremote.com/remote/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/Kristen-b
ell-fanboys-leia.jpg
jeremys...@yahoo.com
> Where will they find an actress that anorexic?
lindsay lohan anyone
JLB
It's not because of Welling. It's because of this version of the
Kents. They don't have the moral compass of most versions of the
Kents. They're the ones who want him to hide his power. Jonathan
talks about how important football was to him, knowing it would help
Clark fit it but also forbidding it. Sure Clark playing football is a
bad idea. But don't throw it in his face like that.
Most versions of the Kents wouldn't makes deals with the devil as they
have.
Most versions of the Kents tell him the right thing to do is use his
powers to help mankind. These don't.
RIght now Clark's life is divided between hide himself or rule the
world. He doesn't want to do either. But fighting the bad guys in
secret is dangerous and far from fulfilling. It screws with his life
and due to their nature most of the time he's left feeling he's
responsible for the existence and so for the danger.
Their needs to be a disaster that has nothing to do with him, where he
saves a ton of people. They don't even need to thank him. He just
needs to see their faces. Martha also needs to see it. She can tell
Clark how wrong they were, when she sees how much he can do for
people.
JLB
Ken from Chicago
<badth...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1181585229....@q69g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 11, 12:33 pm, "KalElFan" <kalelfanNOS...@yahoo.com> wrote:
<snip>
> These are sloooow people. I can't believe it took them seven years to
> realize they could have a spin-off show with Supergirl.
>
> And like Smallville, it will blow, blow, blow.. For example: what
> about that poor girl the Jor El Computer Cave kidnapped and gave
> powers to? The blonde one who thought her name was Kara? Yeah, god
> forbid you wrap that up.
There are a ton of FIREFLY, WONDERFALLS, BRIMSTONE, BRISCO COUNTY JR fans
who wished their shows tanked--FOR SEVEN YEARS.
-- Ken from Chicago
Anim8rFSK
And there are a ton of STAR TREK fans that wish their franchise had
tanked a decade earlier. :D
BC
"David" <diml...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1181580966.7...@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> Where will they find an actress that anorexic?
>
Calista Flockhart.
BC
"Anim8rFSK" <ANIM...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:ANIM8Rfsk-188D6...@news.phx.highwinds-media.com...
Catherine Bell?
Kristine DeBell?
BC
"Christopher M." <nospamc...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:selbi.3783$4t5.1803@trndny07...
Justice is supposed to be blind and these guys aren't.
KalElFan
news:ws21-9515AB.1...@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu...
[responding to badthingus]
> ... they can't make a spinoff show with Supergirl, because Supergirl
> doesn't have the iconic status of Superman...
She certainly has some status, beyond what Buffy The Vampire Slayer
or Xena or other successful female hero shows had when they first
started out. They've chosen the right version here -- Superman's
cousin Kara. So I don't think there's any question that they *could*
make a spinoff. It'll depend how effective the character is in helping
ratings, whether the casting works and so on.
A couple of other spoilers came out. She's going to be 19. The 16
years was her time in suspended animation apparently. She's also
going to have a crush on Jimmy. Didn't Ashmore also appear in
Veronica Mars opposite Kristen Bell? I can see The CW pushing
for her and a few posters have mentioned her as well. I think they
should cast younger, closer to the 19 age of the character. Bell
will be 27 next month according to the IMDb, which would make
her mid-30s by the time a successful spinoff ended. I also think
they should go with a relative unknown.
KalElFan
news:1181602092....@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> TV shows rarely introduce new characters for the primary
> purpose of creating contrived explanations for past errors.
It wouldn't be the primary purpose. I think the primary purpose
is to spike the ratings at least a bit, get away from the all-time
low viewership and lowest-rated season ever, and maybe get
a season 8 and/or a Supergirl spinoff out of it.
The explanation needn't be contrived, just consistent with the
series -- the two messages Swan received, and murderous
"Jor-El" and his murderous avatar "Kara". It's a perfect chance
to do it, but I think they're more interested in having her hawk
iPods and crush on Jimmy Olsen. So you're almost certainly
right.
Edward McArdle
"Christopher M." <nospamc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
It seems to have bothered no one that Lex in the comics is equally over
the top and unbelievable.
--
my URL,
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~mcardle
Edward McArdle
Tony <Tony...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> --huh?
> A marketing bonanza? None of SG's books prior to Crisis sold well.
>
> Tony
I have a fair number of the Supergirl comics. There are hundreds of
them, including Superman Family, where she was a lead for years.
BC
that she grew in suspended animation--then it wasn't SUSPENDED animation.
Clark grew or aged 2+ years while enroute--so that means he wasn't in
suspended animation. So why is Kara in suspended animation?
And how nice of them to kill Chloe so quickly without a goodbye (from her)
and then bring in someone else to pick up the romance with Jimmy. I suppose
there won't be a funeral for her and Jimmy will shed one tear. It will also
be interesting to see how Welling deals with the tragedy. He didn't act the
same after JS left.
Bradster
<badth...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1181585229....@q69g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 11, 12:33 pm, "KalElFan" <kalelfanNOS...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> This isn't really in the nature of a spoiler because it'll be a major
>> part of all the promotion for season 7.
>>
> realize they could have a spin-off show with Supergirl.
>
> And like Smallville, it will blow, blow, blow.. For example: what
> about that poor girl the Jor El Computer Cave kidnapped and gave
> powers to? The blonde one who thought her name was Kara? Yeah, god
> forbid you wrap that up.
She was a really good actress and is now a regular on the new James Wood
legal show "Shark",
BC
"Bradster" <bdhayR...@ATHotmailDOT.com> wrote in message
news:25ybi.17382$xq1.6658@pd7urf1no...
on Shark. Kara was a different actress--Adrianne Palicki.
Bradster
Damn! Now I have to go back and watch seasons 3 and 4 again. Seriously, I
remember them now. Adrianne was the naked one in the cave, right?
BC
"Bradster" <bdhayR...@ATHotmailDOT.com> wrote in message
door naked (and Clark didn't jump on the opportunity--dope). She had her
clothes on in the cave with Clark and Jonathan.
David Johnston
>>
>> And like Smallville, it will blow, blow, blow.. For example: what
>> about that poor girl the Jor El Computer Cave kidnapped and gave
>> powers to? The blonde one who thought her name was Kara? Yeah, god
>> forbid you wrap that up.
There's nothing really to wrap up. She was just a puppet modelled
after a dead girl.
masonReloaded
wrote:
> "masonReloaded" <jonmason1...@gmail.com> wrote in message
If thats the direction it took it could work, but I fear it will be
more a case of them introducing a strong, cool, ass-kicking female
Kryptonian, who leaves Clark still looking like a moping child in
comparison...
Eminence
>On Jun 11, 2:52 pm, Jeri Jo Thomas <katana...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> On Mon, 11 Jun 2007 11:07:09 -0700 badthin...@yahoo.com
>> (badthin...@yahoo.com) stepped to the mic and said...
>>
>> > And like Smallville, it will blow, blow, blow.. For example: what
>> > about that poor girl the Jor El Computer Cave kidnapped and gave
>> > powers to? The blonde one who thought her name was Kara? Yeah, god
>> > forbid you wrap that up.
>>
>> Uh, didn't they find a newspaper article that that girl was actually
>> dead, and she was released from Jor-El's thrall when they faced him with
>> it?
>>
>> --
>> Jeri Jo & Little Garcia Bear
>
>Nope. We found out who she really was (she wasn't dead; her mom was
>in an accident nearby), but at the end she got sucked back in and
>hasn't been heard from since.
I would mark out if all this time it was really Cave Carson down
there, using a hidden microphone to screw with Clark.
Eminence
_______________
Usenet: Global Village of the Damned
Aaron *Brother Head* Moss
"Grimm-RHD" <dw...@echoes.net> wrote in message
news:1181592029....@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 11, 2:54 pm, "KalElFan" <kalelfanNOS...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> <badthin...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:1181585229....@q69g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> > These are sloooow people. I can't believe it took them seven years
>> > to realize they could have a spin-off show with Supergirl.
>>
>> > about that poor girl the Jor El Computer Cave kidnapped and gave
>> > powers to? The blonde one who thought her name was Kara?
>> > Yeah, god forbid you wrap that up.
>>
> years! We are WAY past looking for a positive turning point. Right
> now they should be looking for ANYTHING positive. But is it any
> wonder why? Gough and Millar had never picked up a comic before this
> series, and as they did research on the comics, picked and rearranged
> what they liked. They knew damn well that all they cared about was
> reaching the 7th Heaven or Dawson's Creek crowd. Thus all the teenage
> whining crap that goes along with every other show the WB had.
>
> Even an average show lasting this long normally has a solid foundation
> and their main characters pretty much done developing. Maybe even
> getting started on wrapping up the series on a high note. Minus some
> back story and a couple deaths, Clark is as green as the first
> episode, and the story up until this point is mutilated beyond repair.
>
> I had hopes that the Siegels would rip this shame of a show off the
> air a few years back. Obviously that's a pipe dream at this point.
> But what I wouldn't give to see this show end right now.
>
> Grimm-RHD
>
pssst, you can turn the channel or barring that, you can turn the television
off.
I know it's hard to let go, but sometimes, that's the best choice.
Rev. Aaron *Brother Head* Moss
http://brotherhead.com
David E. Milligan
"Anim8rFSK" <ANIM...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:ANIM8Rfsk-188D6...@news.phx.highwinds-media.com...
>
> Kristen Bell needs a job . . .
>
> Kara:
> http://files.blog-city.com/files/O05/148581/p/f/kristen_bell_shape_july11_4.jpg
As much as I like Kristen, she surely does NOT have a very pretty smile!
>
> Linda Lee:
> http://www.givememyremote.com/remote/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/Kristen-bell-fanboys-leia.jpg
Better.
David E. Milligan
<jeremys...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1181610842.8...@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On 11 Jun, 10:56, David <dimla...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Where will they find an actress that anorexic?
>
> lindsay lohan anyone
Amy Acker
Nicole Richie
Highlandish
<%Mwbi.18461$C96....@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net>
but did she die? i thought he green power was to transfer her soul and hide
out in other bodies, with a tear shed from Lois back onto chloes lifeless
body i assume she will be restored.
--
Reply no longer functions. attention me in this group instead
If at first you don't succeed, try again. Then quit. No use being a
damn fool about it.
Grimm-RHD
<thebrot...@brotherhead.com> wrote:
> "Grimm-RHD" <d...@echoes.net> wrote in message
So now I am not allowed to be critical of a show that should be heads
above anything it will ever attain now? I guess I wasn't
clear...that's on me...I have already left the show. Technically
season 4 was my last. Lex acting like a baby over "friendship", the
pathetic "search for the stones" arc, and worst beyond worst Lois Lane
meeting Clark.
And after reading the plots and summeries of seasons 5 & 6 I thank
everyday for leaving when I did. But after hearing of Supergirl being
added, I had to voice my opinion. And no I will not be watching
season 7 either. It's too little too late to watch them mutilate yet
another DC character.
Grimm-RHD
Grimm-RHD
wrote:
> <badthin...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
This is unfortunately true...
Grimm-RHD
BC
"Highlandish" <Say No To Spam> wrote in message
news:466f12be$0$25664$c30e...@pit-reader.telstra.net...
Maybe I assume too much but if they bring in another girl for the cast I
think they will get rid of one. The season finale looked like Lana escaped
the bomb and Gough or someone rumored that Kara will have a love interest
from Jimmy. So it sounds like Chloe is gone. I also can't see Lana showing
up right away--since she's hiding from Lex unless somehow it is revealed
that Lex didn't fake the pregnancy and that Lionel is behind it--then she
may figure it is safe to come out of hiding and not implicate Lex in her
death. (opens a whole can of worms--body in the car-the DNA etc.)
Don't know if her power is to transfer herself or to just save someone else.
It didn't look like Lois was Chloe. And it seems like that power should
create some complication with what Dawn Stiles did to her.
If Lana is gone--the the love interest for Clark would be Lois but if they
follow any piece of canon then Lois will not be a girlfriend or will move
away leaving Clark all alone. Looks like Lois will stay and maybe she will
become Chloe (the opposite of that Chlois idea i think) and will inherit
Chloe's reporting skills. My money is on Chloe being gone. Of course they
don't have to get rid of anyone since Martha will be in DC she may as well
not be on the show. But it looks like too many girls--Chloe, Lana, Lois,
Kara--for Clark and Jimmy to contend with.
Highlandish
> Maybe I assume too much but if they bring in another girl for the
> cast I think they will get rid of one. The season finale looked like
> Lana escaped the bomb and Gough or someone rumored that Kara will
> have a love interest from Jimmy. So it sounds like Chloe is gone. I
> also can't see Lana showing up right away--since she's hiding from
> Lex unless somehow it is revealed that Lex didn't fake the pregnancy
> and that Lionel is behind it--then she may figure it is safe to come
> out of hiding and not implicate Lex in her death. (opens a whole can
> of worms--body in the car-the DNA etc.)
> Don't know if her power is to transfer herself or to just save
> someone else. It didn't look like Lois was Chloe. And it seems like
> that power should create some complication with what Dawn Stiles did
> to her.
> If Lana is gone--the the love interest for Clark would be Lois but if
> they follow any piece of canon then Lois will not be a girlfriend or
> will move away leaving Clark all alone. Looks like Lois will stay
> and maybe she will become Chloe (the opposite of that Chlois idea i
> think) and will inherit Chloe's reporting skills. My money is on
> Chloe being gone. Of course they don't have to get rid of anyone
> since Martha will be in DC she may as well not be on the show. But
> it looks like too many girls--Chloe, Lana, Lois, Kara--for Clark and
> Jimmy to contend with.
make sense of course. kara will need to change her name though. all the
girls have LL for initials.
--
Reply no longer functions. attention me in this group instead
It's bad luck to be superstitious.
Frank Sereno
If Lex wasn't behind the false pregnancy, then why did he kill
Lana's OB/GYN when the doctor threatened to tell her the truth
about her "pregnancy"? Was there some sort of double deception
going on? Lana deceived to believe that she was pregnant and Lex
deceived to believe that she was carrying some sort of super
baby? And that Lionel had planned and manipulated both
deceptions? That Lex killed the doctor because he thought the
doc was going to spill the beans on some meteor freak child that
didn't exist?
William George Ferguson
In the comics, Kara's original cover name/secret identity was Linda Lee.
--
"Oh Buffy, you really do need to have
every square inch of your ass kicked."
- Willow Rosenberg
Anim8rFSK
"BC" <bcp...@core.com> wrote:
Well, they got rid of Ma, so they can bring in a female relative.
BC
"Frank Sereno" <fseren...@nospamsbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:iJFbi.3291$c06....@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net...
It certainly appeared that way but in the season finale Lex was clearly
acting like he was surprised that the pregnancy was not genuine. I can see
them deceiving us before we knew that it was a fake but why deceive us again
after they whole thing is pretty much buried? Unless they are going
somewhere with it--that Lionel arranged the whole thing--on the one hand to
get Lana to marry lex and on the other to set Lana against him and work as a
spy. It wouldn't do any good for Lana and Lex to have a child and be happy
parents--Lana wouldn't spy on her husband in a good marriage with children.
Lionel? Jor-el could have arranged the whole affair. Not only that, but
Jor-el could have decided that Clark wouldn't mature unless he had a worthy
opponent, and that would be Lex and the fulfillment of the Segeeth/Naman
prophecy. But knowing Smallville they may just drop it next year and take
off with the Supergirl bit. It wouldn't be the first time a story line was
dropped, Segetth?Naman being one of them.
Highlandish
> It certainly appeared that way but in the season finale Lex was
> clearly acting like he was surprised that the pregnancy was not
> genuine. I can see them deceiving us before we knew that it was a
> fake but why deceive us again after they whole thing is pretty much
> buried? Unless they are going somewhere with it--that Lionel
> arranged the whole thing--on the one hand to get Lana to marry lex
> and on the other to set Lana against him and work as a spy. It
> wouldn't do any good for Lana and Lex to have a child and be happy
> parents--Lana wouldn't spy on her husband in a good marriage with
> children. Lionel? Jor-el could have arranged the whole affair. Not
> only that, but Jor-el could have decided that Clark wouldn't mature
> unless he had a worthy opponent, and that would be Lex and the
> fulfillment of the Segeeth/Naman prophecy. But knowing Smallville
> they may just drop it next year and take off with the Supergirl bit. It
> wouldn't be the first time a story line was dropped, Segetth?Naman
> being one of them.
I could believe that both Lana and Lex knew they were pregnant for real, but
Lionel contrived to steal the baby and have them both believe now that there
was no pregnancy after all. Lionel would have them believe it was a
hysterical pregnancy.
I believe Lionel would do this because the baby was Clarke's, it took a
little longer for the sperm to conceive since it was swimming around inside
of her, so the dates wont look like it was Clarke's, Lionel still has an
agenda, wether it is his own for good or bad, or if it is Jor-Els will.
--
Reply no longer functions. attention me in this group instead
Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls
and looks like work. - Thomas Edison
Ken Arromdee
Highlandish <Say No To Spam> wrote:
>make sense of course. kara will need to change her name though. all the
>girls have LL for initials.
She used Linda Lee in the comics for just that meta-reason. Of course
it doesn't make much sense for her to pick a new name in Smallville.
--
Ken Arromdee / arromdee_AT_rahul.net / http://www.rahul.net/arromdee
"You know, you blow up one sun and suddenly everyone expects you to walk
on water." --Samantha Carter, Stargate SG-1
Ken Arromdee
Ken Arromdee <arro...@green.rahul.net> wrote:
>She used Linda Lee in the comics for just that meta-reason. Of course
>it doesn't make much sense for her to pick a new name in Smallville.
In fact, now that I think of it, using the name "Linda Lee" in the comics
didn't make much sense either. Unlike Superman, she was old enough when she
came to Earth to know and use her own name. There was no reason she couldn't
just be known as Kara to everyone; it can pass for an Earth name, after all.
Anim8rFSK
arro...@green.rahul.net (Ken Arromdee) wrote:
> In article <f4nrs0$ghi$1...@blue.rahul.net>,
> Ken Arromdee <arro...@green.rahul.net> wrote:
> >She used Linda Lee in the comics for just that meta-reason. Of course
> >it doesn't make much sense for her to pick a new name in Smallville.
>
> In fact, now that I think of it, using the name "Linda Lee" in the comics
> didn't make much sense either. Unlike Superman, she was old enough when she
> came to Earth to know and use her own name. There was no reason she couldn't
> just be known as Kara to everyone; it can pass for an Earth name, after all.
Uh - to use the name "Kara Zor-El"?
I think the orphanage would have raised an eyebrow or two about that.
Super-Menace
<arro...@green.rahul.net> wrote:
> In article <f4nrs0$ghi$1...@blue.rahul.net>,
> Ken Arromdee <arro...@green.rahul.net> wrote:
> >She used Linda Lee in the comics for just that meta-reason. Of course
> >it doesn't make much sense for her to pick a new name in Smallville.
>
> In fact, now that I think of it, using the name "Linda Lee" in the comics
> didn't make much sense either. Unlike Superman, she was old enough when she
> came to Earth to know and use her own name. There was no reason she couldn't
> just be known as Kara to everyone; it can pass for an Earth name, after all.
I thought I remembered that a reader once wrote to say that Teddy and
Joan Kennedy had named their daughter Kara, and the editor responded
that they would give Kara a free lifetime subscription, which of course
led me to wonder if she was still getting it. I just spent more than
half an hour looking for the letter. It's in Action 299 (April 1963),
and all they say they would do was send her a free subscription (no
term stated) "so that she can read about her glamorous namesake."
Kara Kennedy was born on 27 February 1960, which made her three years
old at this time. I'll still bet she spotted two or three of Mort's
mistakes in every issue.
YKW '06
electrons to communicate as follows:
Kara Zorel (no hyphen) could easily pass as an Eastern European name in a
small midwestern-US town.
--
------------------- ------------------------------------------------
|| E-mail: ykw2006 ||"The mystery of government is not how Washington||
|| -at-gmail-dot-com ||works but how to make it stop." -- P.J. O'Rourke||
|| ----------- || ------------------------------------ ||
||Replace "-at-" with|| Keeping Usenet Trouble-Free ||
|| "@" to respond. || Since 1998 ||
------------------- ------------------------------------------------
Anim8rFSK
"YKW '06" <ykwBLOC...@gmail.BLOCKER.com> wrote:
> On 12 Jun 2007, Anim8rFSK <ANIM...@cox.net> re-ordered random
> electrons to communicate as follows:
>
> > In article <f4ns5g$ghi$2...@blue.rahul.net>,
> > arro...@green.rahul.net (Ken Arromdee) wrote:
> >
> >> In article <f4nrs0$ghi$1...@blue.rahul.net>,
> >> Ken Arromdee <arro...@green.rahul.net> wrote:
> >> >She used Linda Lee in the comics for just that meta-reason. Of
> >> >course it doesn't make much sense for her to pick a new name in
> >> >Smallville.
> >>
> >> In fact, now that I think of it, using the name "Linda Lee" in the
> >> comics didn't make much sense either. Unlike Superman, she was old
> >> enough when she came to Earth to know and use her own name. There
> >> was no reason she couldn't just be known as Kara to everyone; it can
> >> pass for an Earth name, after all.
> >
> > Uh - to use the name "Kara Zor-El"?
> >
> > I think the orphanage would have raised an eyebrow or two about that.
> >
>
> Kara Zorel (no hyphen) could easily pass as an Eastern European name in a
> small midwestern-US town.
and then what? She has to use a phony name as Supergirl?
Eminence
>... But it looks like too many girls--Chloe, Lana, Lois,
>Kara--for Clark and Jimmy to contend with.
Horrors! Two girls for every boy -- look for Axe body spray to become
a major sponsor.
Ken Arromdee
Anim8rFSK <ANIM...@cox.net> wrote:
>> Kara Zorel (no hyphen) could easily pass as an Eastern European name in a
>> small midwestern-US town.
>and then what? She has to use a phony name as Supergirl?
"Supergirl" is already a phony name. That's the whole reason why
superheroes have code names--to hide their identity.
Unless you mean "if she calls herself Kara in civilian life, then what does
Superman call her in public?", which has the same answer as "what does
Superman call Batman in public". He either calls him Batman, or he uses his
real name but makes sure nobody's listening. Batman doesn't need a second
civilian name just so Superman has something to call him.
KalElFan
news:130620070207553380%fort...@arctic.com.invalid...
[Ken Arromdee wrote]:
>> >She used Linda Lee in the comics for just that meta-reason.
>> >Of course it doesn't make much sense for her to pick a new
>> >name in Smallville.
They could SO easily do it in Smallville or the spinoff though, because
she sees Clark Kent vs. Kal-El as the paradigm, and she sees the
two women Lana Lang and Lois Lane, and his one-time friend and
now rival Lex Luthor and his father Lionel Luthor. So she gets the
idea that she should choose an LL name to blend in. :-)
But her "real" name -- not just as a baby -- is Kara, and Kara should
be the title of the spinoff. Here's a big reason why:
[snippage to get to Super-Menace's point]
> I thought I remembered that a reader once wrote to say that
> Teddy and Joan Kennedy had named their daughter Kara...
> It's in Action 299 (April 1963), and all they say they would do
> was send her a free subscription (no term stated) "so that she
> can read about her glamorous namesake."
>
> Kara Kennedy was born on 27 February 1960...
This got me to Google the string "most popular baby names" and
there's a US government site that has the top 1000 male and female
going back to 1896 or something. It's a database so you have to
enter how big a list and what year. Anyway, one of the mid-50s
years I checked had no Kara, just Karan, a variation of Karen I
guess, but way down the list. In 1958, the year Supergirl was
first introduced in the comics I believe, Kara is at 935. Not on the
list again in 1959, but then #912 in 1960 and #552 with a bullet in
1961. :-) Supergirl plus Kara Kennedy may have been a factor
there.
I checked 1977 randomly and Kara was all the way up to #120.
In 2006 she was back down to #279, but still in there with some
common names like Lindsay and Alison, and on the boys side
Phillip. Some of the names are older-sounding, some younger-
sounding, but the point is Kara became and is much, much more
common and has persisted, apparently because the Supergirl
character was introduced about 50 years ago. The height of
the names popularity is probably still in that 18-34 demo that
The CW covets, so Kara would be the perfect series title for
that reason as well. In a few years, watch for Kara to break
the top 100 baby names if it didn't already back in the 70s or
whenever.
I have a few other responses pending, but it was fun discovering
this information, including the Kara Kennedy bit that I'd never
heard of. Kara in Smallville should adopt the Linda Lee name
on Earth though.
The amount of buzz this casting news has created is incredible.
Kryptonsite was in summer doldrums in just about every thread,
but now there are a few thousand posts over several threads and
probably 100,000+ views of discussions on this one topic. It's
great early validation of a very good decision and spoiler to be
promoting. They're going to get a good viewership bump up for
the season premiere, a GREAT bump up if they can get... well,
I'll leave that for the separate casting post. :-)
~consul
>> Ken Arromdee <arro...@green.rahul.net> wrote:
>>> She used Linda Lee in the comics for just that meta-reason. Of course
>>> it doesn't make much sense for her to pick a new name in Smallville.
>> In fact, now that I think of it, using the name "Linda Lee" in the comics
>> didn't make much sense either. Unlike Superman, she was old enough when she
>> came to Earth to know and use her own name. There was no reason she couldn't
>> just be known as Kara to everyone; it can pass for an Earth name, after all.
> Uh - to use the name "Kara Zor-El"?
> I think the orphanage would have raised an eyebrow or two about that.
Only if orphanage administrators were silver-age comic book readers. :)
--
"... respect, all good works are not done by only good folk. For here, at the end of all things, we shall do what needs to be done."
--till next time, Jameson Stalanthas Yu -x- <<poetry.dolphins-cove.com>>
Anim8rFSK
~consul <con...@INVALIDdolphins-cove.com> wrote:
> and thus Anim8rFSK inscribed ...
> > arro...@green.rahul.net (Ken Arromdee) wrote:
> >> Ken Arromdee <arro...@green.rahul.net> wrote:
> >>> She used Linda Lee in the comics for just that meta-reason. Of course
> >>> it doesn't make much sense for her to pick a new name in Smallville.
> >> In fact, now that I think of it, using the name "Linda Lee" in the comics
> >> didn't make much sense either. Unlike Superman, she was old enough when
> >> she
> >> came to Earth to know and use her own name. There was no reason she
> >> couldn't
> >> just be known as Kara to everyone; it can pass for an Earth name, after
> >> all.
> > Uh - to use the name "Kara Zor-El"?
> > I think the orphanage would have raised an eyebrow or two about that.
>
> Only if orphanage administrators were silver-age comic book readers. :)
LOL, well, Rao knows they weren't spending the money to improve the
gru-el.
Super-Menace
<kalelfa...@yahoo.com> wrote:
I would caution that the popularity of the name Kara probably owes
something to the Celtic revival of the '90s as well as the odd embrace
of K names for girls at around the same time.
> The amount of buzz this casting news has created is incredible.
> Kryptonsite was in summer doldrums in just about every thread,
> but now there are a few thousand posts over several threads and
> probably 100,000+ views of discussions on this one topic. It's
> great early validation of a very good decision and spoiler to be
> promoting. They're going to get a good viewership bump up for
> the season premiere, a GREAT bump up if they can get... well,
> I'll leave that for the separate casting post. :-)
I agree that there is tremendous buzz about this project. I'm somewhat
surprised -- not displeased, just surprised. People seem to want this
show.
I'm beginning to think that Gough ruling out tights for Kara will turn
out to be a mistake.
David B
Nah. As long as she wears shorts or the miniskirt we can skip the tights
which the character has never really worn much or at all..
Bill Steele
~consul <con...@INVALIDdolphins-cove.com> wrote:
> >>> She used Linda Lee in the comics for just that meta-reason. Of course
> >>> it doesn't make much sense for her to pick a new name in Smallville.
> >> In fact, now that I think of it, using the name "Linda Lee" in the comics
> >> didn't make much sense either. Unlike Superman, she was old enough when
> >> she
> >> came to Earth to know and use her own name. There was no reason she
> >> couldn't
> >> just be known as Kara to everyone; it can pass for an Earth name, after
> >> all.
> > Uh - to use the name "Kara Zor-El"?
> > I think the orphanage would have raised an eyebrow or two about that.
As someone else pointed out, a name like Kara doesn't sound strange
today, but might have in the Silver Age. But she could have gotten away
with something like Carrie Sorrell.
Actually, she used Linda Lee because by that time the writers had become
totally hung up on the LL thing.
KalElFan
> I agree that there is tremendous buzz about this project. I'm somewhat
> surprised -- not displeased, just surprised. People seem to want this
> show.
>
> I'm beginning to think that Gough ruling out tights for Kara will turn
> out to be a mistake.
I don't think they need the tights. She could, however, if she was sent
here as a protector for baby Kal-El, have had a plan to adopt a mere
mortal identity. So the idea for an "LL" name like Linda Lee could be
easily written in very early in season 7, including Linda Lee using a
brunette wig and having a different wardrobe than Kara when she
does super-stuff. I'd favor that. We saw the Angel of Vengeance
do something like that, and Chloe took note, and Chloe being in the
know on Clark might be in sync with Kara doing that and help her.
So many good opportunities here. It occurs to me if Kara arrived
16 years ago, then as her ship approached Earth -- and being the
protector and all -- she may have spent some time monitoring the
Earth situation in 1991. Something goes wrong and her ship puts
her back in suspended animation, so now she wakes up and its
16 years later with iPods and the Internet and she has to do a
quick refresher/update course on all that. Not something to dwell
on or that she gets stuck in, because she can catch up at super-
speed. But the character has very interesting potential in her own
right, and as a Smallville catalyst, and can also be fun. Hopefully
the writers use her well.
The only thing that's really surprised me, pleasantly, is how unequivocal
the publicity and spoilers are here that this character is the real deal,
best version of Supergirl: Superman's cousin Kara. WGF in the other
casting thread mentions Power Girl, which I'm vaguely familiar with as
being one of the comic travesty versions but not the real deal. But few
in the wider viewership would understand those comic travesties let
alone care. They had a Matrix gob of goo Supergirl and her convoluted
story, while they made Power Girl Superman's cousin and named her
Kara, and in the interim they had a Kara in an Aliens crossover, and
there was a Ghost Kara who appeared in a Deadman holiday special
or some such, and Peter David did a Blended Supergirl series that had
bits of different versions in it... geez, what an absolute mess.
But The CW press release, and the spoilers leading up to it, were very
clear -- Supergirl, Clark's cousin Kara Zor-El from Krypton. That's what
surprised me. If the press had been "Supergirl, a gob of goo created by
accident in Lex Luthor's lab..." the reaction would have been so toxic
the whole concept would be DOA. But damn if they didn't get it right.
I'm wondering if one factor here may have been the rights issues, and
any remaining Salkinds claim leftover from the 1984 movie, being
worked out sufficiently for everyone to be able to greenlight this. In
any case the tremendous positive buzz validates it, and those of us
who've been saying for years and years that they should bring the
real deal Kara back.
One post was asking about my reference to Kryptonsite. The threads
discussing this are in different places in the forum. The Spoiler section
has the most. The original "Breaking News..." thread there, started after
the Ausiello TV Guide scoop, has 700+ posts and 30,000+ views last I
checked. "Who Should Play Kara" had 200+ posts and 9,000+ views.
There's a poll thread on who will be Kara's Best Female Friend, about
140 posts and 4,000+ views. Threads on Supergirl being able to fly,
another on her being 19, another on whether she should be a regular,
another on her crush on Jimmy... Craig should probably just rename
the whole thing kara.kryptonsite.com. :-)
I haven't looked at TWoP or The CW official site or the Devoted
to Smallville boards, but it's probably the same story.
Which leads to my response to your "People seem to want this
show" point. I actually think that's specifically NOT the message
to take from it at this point. People are buzzing about Supergirl,
Kara, Clark's cousin, being introduced to the show. I think the
show has a huge opportunity here if it does the other right things
it needs to do, and rides the interest in Kara with that. It could
get not just a season 8 but a movie series if it did that. And there
are some hopeful signs in some specific comments that have
been made. This Kara announcement is also hopeful in itself,
because they finally got it right and they see the good reaction.
KalElFan
> I would caution that the popularity of the name Kara probably owes
> something to the Celtic revival of the '90s as well as the odd embrace
> of K names for girls at around the same time.
That wouldn't account for the move from Not In Top 1000, to the 900
block circa 1960, and then #120 in 1977. I just went back to that site,
which is here:
http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/babynames/
And noticed other search features including by name, so I was
able to get the "Kara" info for all years it was in the top 1000.
A better way of presenting it is another interesting feature they
have. Here are the number of female babies born in the US and
named Kara, in each of the last 5 decades (the current decade
not yet over, and in the 1950s Kara's not in the top 1000). The
number is followed in brackets by Kara's placement on the top
1000 list.
1960s -- 7,038 (#352 for the decade)
1970s -- 19,754 (#147 for the decade)
1980s -- 27,487 (#105 for the decade)
1990s -- 23,504 (#137 for the decade)
2000s -- 9,554 (#240 for the decade to date)
The total works out to 87,337 females named Kara in the
U.S. since 1960. The peak was the 1980s, so the age of
the highest numbers named Kara today is probably 21 or
so, squarely in The CW's preferred demo and they still
will be 8 years from now as they launch a movie series. :-)
I don't think there's any doubt that the popularity of the
name Kara has been influenced by the Supergirl character,
going back to her introduction almost 50 years ago now.
In fact the peak in the 80s was 1984, the year of the
Supergirl movie. Kara was #95 on the list that year. It
managed to tie that again in 1988.
The popularity of the character in the 60s, with the Action
comics Supergirl stories (circulation was close to 1 million
several of those years) helped the popularity of the name
rise. Kara getting killed off in the comics in 1985-86, and
having no major incarnations since (and the ones in the
comics all being bait and switch when it comes to Supergirl),
have in turn contributed to the decline. But it's still way
ahead of where it was in 1959 when the character was
officially introduced.
Even at its peak, maybe 1 in 500 were naming their female
baby Kara. It's not like Cage naming his son Kal-El. Kara
Zor-El, as opposed to Kara-El, is what made Kara alone
more viable for the 1 in 500. Many if not a large majority
of those naming their daughters Kara probably knew that
it was also Supergirl's name, and many probably chose it
for that reason. Again, it's only .2% of the population.
Anlatt the Builder
>
> The only thing that's really surprised me, pleasantly, is how unequivocal
> the publicity and spoilers are here that this character is the real deal,
> best version of Supergirl: Superman's cousin Kara.
Actually the real deal is a magical version wished into existence by
Jimmy Olsen. Kara Zor-El is a Joanie-come-lately. :-)
JLB
And Powergirl isn't a travesty. She wasn't created as some sort of
replacement. She's the real deal or Earth-2. Kara Zor-L cousin of the
Golden Age Superman.
JLB
William George Ferguson
wrote:
>The only thing that's really surprised me, pleasantly, is how unequivocal
>the publicity and spoilers are here that this character is the real deal,
>best version of Supergirl: Superman's cousin Kara. WGF in the other
>casting thread mentions Power Girl, which I'm vaguely familiar with as
>being one of the comic travesty versions but not the real deal.
Power Girl is not a comic travesty version, although she is occasionally
played for comedy (but then who isn't). She is the Kara Zor-L of Earth 2,
just as much a travesty as the Huntress (another Earth 2 character that
made the jump to Earth 1). She's been around for over 30 years, and
handily pre-dates Crisis.
Now, what they did to her post-Crisis was a travesty, but then that wasn't
exclusive to her, was it?
One thing I like since they've re-introduced Supergirl; Power Girl and
Supergirl both understand they are alternate universe versions of each
other, and they tend to hang out together a lot.
>But few
>in the wider viewership would understand those comic travesties let
>alone care. They had a Matrix gob of goo Supergirl and her convoluted
>story, while they made Power Girl Superman's cousin and named her
>Kara, and in the interim they had a Kara in an Aliens crossover, and
>there was a Ghost Kara who appeared in a Deadman holiday special
>or some such, and Peter David did a Blended Supergirl series that had
>bits of different versions in it... geez, what an absolute mess.
David's Supergirl was basically just Matrix and Linda Danvers (a
demon-worshipping suicidal junkie that Matrix resurrected). During her run
(over 10 years), she met up with a version of the original Supergirl and
switched places with her for awhile. That led to the Arielle Kent
Supergirl (the daughter of Linda Danvers and Kal-El) in the future. Beside
the Aliens crossover Kara, there was also a one-off Supergirl named Cir-El.
>But The CW press release, and the spoilers leading up to it, were very
>clear -- Supergirl, Clark's cousin Kara Zor-El from Krypton. That's what
>surprised me. If the press had been "Supergirl, a gob of goo created by
>accident in Lex Luthor's lab..." the reaction would have been so toxic
>the whole concept would be DOA. But damn if they didn't get it right.
Well, Argo City is apparently out (as it is in the comics), but other than
that...
Ok, if you're at ComiCon when they introduce whoever gets cast, look for
me. I'll be the over-aged comic geek (that should be enough of a
description :)
KalElFan
news:3oh373lkp7gguj1l3...@4ax.com...
> ... what they did to [Power Girl] post-Crisis was a travesty...
Yeah, I can see where a few Power Girl fans have had their feathers
ruffled, so I'll clarify. I was aware that the character named Power
Girl had an Earth-2 or Golden Age connection, which would be fine
if she was a different character back then. But that's misleading for
those who aren't very familiar with comics. I'm generally not that
familiar with the modern ones myself but I buy occasionally and learn
stuff online. So correct me if I'm wrong here but...
In fact Power Girl *wasn't* around during the Golden Age like
Superman and Batman and other characters were. Power Girl
first shows up in a 1976 DC comic, when the Multiverse is still in
existence, and she's basically said to be the Earth-2 or Golden
Age version of Supergirl. This is almost 20 years after the original
Supergirl, the Silver Age Kara version, cousin of Kal-El, is introduced
in the late 50s not long after the start of the Silver Age for DC.
As Anlatt alludes to, there was actually a Jimmy's dream -- or
imaginary-story type if you want to look at it that way -- version
of Supergirl in one story before that. But the real, in-continuity
deal is the Silver Age Kara introduced in a mid-1959 issue. That
was the original version of *THE* Supergirl character, Kara, the
cousin of Kal-El. Power Girl arrived LATER in the storytelling.
I don't have a problem with Power Girl being around pre-Crisis,
nor any huge problem with them calling her Power Girl at that time,
presumably to distinguish the two in crossover stories. I do have
somewhat of a problem with that, because "Flash of Two Worlds"
and Superman illustrate that character names needn't change
and they probably shouldn't. The purpose of most alternate
universe stories is to contrast events and situations, not to
jumble up character names randomly.
(Just a point here for those who don't get Golden Age -- the first
era starting 1938 in the case of Superman -- being called Earth-2.
It's just because this whole multiverse concept didn't come into
effect until the early 60s in DC's case, and that Flash of Two
Worlds concept. From the perspective of readers at that time,
DC (and its readers) wanted the stories to be seen as taking place
on Earth-1. So Golden Age got designated Earth-2 even though
the stories set in it had been told in the 30s through mid-50s.)
In any case, the huge travesty arises that AFTER they've killed
off the original, real deal *SUPERGIRL* in 1986, DC pigheadedly
refuses to bring her back for 20 years. What they do instead is
tease with so much other bait and switch crap AND have the after-
the-fact copycat poseur refugee from Earth 2 named Power Girl
doing the Kal-El's cousin from Krypton shtick. This after making
a big deal about wanting Clark to be the Last Son of Krypton and
all the rest. It's just DC pigheadness, and pleased as I am to see
the early foreshadowing of the good results they're going to get
from finally getting it right, it is annoying that it took this long.
Anyway, it's history now and it's crap that virtually none of the
viewership of Smallville knows about or has to concern itself
with. I have nothing against Power Girl in the right context. In
fact if Smallville got innovative it would be very easy to introduce
Power Girl to the Smallverse in a very effective way. I'll leave
that for another post.
> One thing I like since they've re-introduced Supergirl; Power Girl
> and Supergirl both understand they are alternate universe versions
> of each other, and they tend to hang out together a lot.
I like that too from the sounds of it. I did buy an early issue or two at
the time, a few years ago now, when the latest Supergirl showed up
and she was a kind of rival fighting with Power Girl. That was the tone
of it anyway. It actually caused me to not buy any more issues of that.
I smelled another bait and switch where we'd find out this was a faux
Kara again from DC. I noticed Anim8r saying he still wasn't convinced
the latest Kara in the comics was genuine even sometime after that,
but maybe he and everyone is now.
Theoretically, The CW could bait and switch again on this one, but with
a clear-cut press release, and the great reaction, and a potentially
lucrative spinoff on the line, I don't see it happening.
> Well, Argo City is apparently out (as it is in the comics), but other
> than that [Smallville's version is the real deal Kara] ...
Yeah, and I don't have a problem with tweaking the backstory for
different incarnations a bit. Smallville did it with the arrival of baby
Kal-El's ship with kryptonite that all piled up in Smallville. They got
some story mileage out of that, and the season 2 ratings peak is
evidence it was not a bad design.
> Ok, if you're at ComiCon when they introduce whoever gets cast,
> look for me. I'll be the over-aged comic geek (that should be enough
> of a description :)
I've never been to a ComiCon, but I don't think I'd be the second
over-aged comic geek in San Diego if I went to that one. :-) Didn't
that get 35,000 attendance or something one year? It's really an
SF convention including for movies and TV, more than it is a
comic convention.
Edward McArdle
William George Ferguson <wmgf...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>
> Ok, if you're at ComiCon when they introduce whoever gets cast, look for
> me. I'll be the over-aged comic geek (that should be enough of a
> description :)
How does that distinguish you from the other 40,000? Which I gather is
about 40% of the total nowadays!
--
my URL,
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~mcardle
Edward McArdle
"KalElFan" <kalelfa...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I've never been to a ComiCon, but I don't think I'd be the second
> over-aged comic geek in San Diego if I went to that one. :-) Didn't
> that get 35,000 attendance or something one year? It's really an
> SF convention including for movies and TV, more than it is a
> comic convention.
In the days long ago that I went it was about 40,000. It has been well
over 100,000 recently. Over 4 days! I don't know where they put them!
Jeri Jo Thomas
stepped to the mic and said...
> In fact Power Girl *wasn't* around during the Golden Age like
> Superman and Batman and other characters were. Power Girl
> first shows up in a 1976 DC comic, when the Multiverse is still in
> existence, and she's basically said to be the Earth-2 or Golden
> Age version of Supergirl. This is almost 20 years after the original
> Supergirl, the Silver Age Kara version, cousin of Kal-El, is introduced
> in the late 50s not long after the start of the Silver Age for DC.
>
To be really nitpicky "Power Girl" was Lois Lane's super hero name when
she acquired super powers in the 50s.
--
Jeri Jo & Little Garcia Bear
Anim8rFSK
William George Ferguson
wrote:
>"William George Ferguson" <wmgf...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
>news:3oh373lkp7gguj1l3...@4ax.com...
>
>> ... what they did to [Power Girl] post-Crisis was a travesty...
>I don't have a problem with Power Girl being around pre-Crisis,
>nor any huge problem with them calling her Power Girl at that time,
>presumably to distinguish the two in crossover stories. I do have
>somewhat of a problem with that, because "Flash of Two Worlds"
>and Superman illustrate that character names needn't change
>and they probably shouldn't. The purpose of most alternate
>universe stories is to contrast events and situations, not to
>jumble up character names randomly.
Power Girl was created by Roy Thomas. She had arrived on Earth much later
than Supergirl (when Earth 2 Superman was at least in his 50s). She was
also older when she arrived than Supergirl. She basically called herself
Power Girl to play down her relationship iwth her cousin.
>In any case, the huge travesty arises that AFTER they've killed
>off the original, real deal *SUPERGIRL* in 1986, DC pigheadedly
>refuses to bring her back for 20 years. What they do instead is
>tease with so much other bait and switch crap AND have the after-
>the-fact copycat poseur refugee from Earth 2 named Power Girl
>doing the Kal-El's cousin from Krypton shtick.
The travesty was that they didn't do that, Power Girl was still around,
but her origin story no longer had her as a kryptonian. There were several
other 'origin stories advanced over the 20 years. Power Girl's origin was
considered to be the only origin even more screwed up than Hawkman's by the
combination of Crisis and the Yaer One revamps. It wasn't until the
prelude to Infinite Crisis a year ago, well after the new Kara had arrived,
that DC finally unretconned her origin.
>This after making
>a big deal about wanting Clark to be the Last Son of Krypton and
>all the rest. It's just DC pigheadness,
More specifically John Byrne pigheadedness. He was the one that
established that Kal-El could be the only survivor of Krypton.
>and pleased as I am to see
>the early foreshadowing of the good results they're going to get
>from finally getting it right, it is annoying that it took this long.
I don't disagree with you, just pointing out that Power Girl wasn't part of
the tease.
>Anyway, it's history now and it's crap that virtually none of the
>viewership of Smallville knows about or has to concern itself
>with. I have nothing against Power Girl in the right context. In
>fact if Smallville got innovative it would be very easy to introduce
>Power Girl to the Smallverse in a very effective way. I'll leave
>that for another post.
Presumably the first (fake) Kara
>
>> One thing I like since they've re-introduced Supergirl; Power Girl
>> and Supergirl both understand they are alternate universe versions
>> of each other, and they tend to hang out together a lot.
>
>I like that too from the sounds of it. I did buy an early issue or two at
>the time, a few years ago now, when the latest Supergirl showed up
>and she was a kind of rival fighting with Power Girl. That was the tone
>of it anyway. It actually caused me to not buy any more issues of that.
>I smelled another bait and switch where we'd find out this was a faux
>Kara again from DC. I noticed Anim8r saying he still wasn't convinced
>the latest Kara in the comics was genuine even sometime after that,
>but maybe he and everyone is now.
What Fred was talking about was Supergirl's appearance in Legion of
Superheroes (which for the last year or so has been titled Supergirl and
the Legion of Superheroes, yes DC is betting on Kara's drawing power
nowadays). It's a plot point that even within the comic nobody knows how
or why Supergirl is in the future, the LOS stories are apparently supposed
to take place while Supergirl was absent during the 52 weeks leading to One
Year Later (she arrives back in the present at the start of World War
III)). Fred was commenting on the fairly strong difference in
characterization between Supergirl in S&TLOS and Supergirl in her own
title.
>Theoretically, The CW could bait and switch again on this one, but with
>a clear-cut press release, and the great reaction, and a potentially
>lucrative spinoff on the line, I don't see it happening.
>
>> Well, Argo City is apparently out (as it is in the comics), but other
>> than that [Smallville's version is the real deal Kara] ...
>
>Yeah, and I don't have a problem with tweaking the backstory for
>different incarnations a bit. Smallville did it with the arrival of baby
>Kal-El's ship with kryptonite that all piled up in Smallville. They got
>some story mileage out of that, and the season 2 ratings peak is
>evidence it was not a bad design.
>
>> Ok, if you're at ComiCon when they introduce whoever gets cast,
>> look for me. I'll be the over-aged comic geek (that should be enough
>> of a description :)
>
>I've never been to a ComiCon, but I don't think I'd be the second
>over-aged comic geek in San Diego if I went to that one. :-) Didn't
>that get 35,000 attendance or something one year? It's really an
>SF convention including for movies and TV, more than it is a
>comic convention.
Last year's total of unique attendees (counting multi-day passes only once,
and counting everyone, fans, pros, exhibitors, and guests), was around
120,000, with the high point coming at noon on Saturday when the Fire
Marshall shut the doors and would only allow people in as other people
left. Best guess at the headcount in the building at that time is probably
between 35,000 to 40,000. It's still primarily a comics convention, but
there is a very strong media presence, although said media presence does
tend to skew towards tv shows and movies that fit the general theme. Last
year I saw the pilot of Heroes there (with most the cast in attendance
(Hayden Panatierre was re-shooting and didn't make it). The year before, I
saw the Bones pilot there (with Boreanaz and Deschanel in attendance).
--
I have a theory, it could be bunnies
Anlatt the Builder
>
> In any case, the huge travesty arises that AFTER they've killed
> off the original, real deal *SUPERGIRL* in 1986, DC pigheadedly
> refuses to bring her back for 20 years. What they do instead is
> tease with so much other bait and switch crap AND have the after-
> the-fact copycat poseur refugee from Earth 2 named Power Girl
> doing the Kal-El's cousin from Krypton shtick. This after making
> a big deal about wanting Clark to be the Last Son of Krypton and
> all the rest. It's just DC pigheadness, and pleased as I am to see
> the early foreshadowing of the good results they're going to get
> from finally getting it right, it is annoying that it took this long.
>
Actually, this is false. From CoIE (when Supergirl was killed) on,
Power Girl was NOT the cousin of Superman (any Superman), although it
was implied that when she first arrived she thought she was. She was
instead given a convoluted, contrived origin concerning Arion of
Atlantis that never made much sense and kept shifting around from
issue to issue.
Only in InfC did she come to realize that, yes, she was the cousin of
the Superman of Earth-2 - at the same time that the heroes became
aware that there WAS once an Earth-2 (something that they all forgot
after CoIE merged the Earths together).
Now, of course, we can't really tell if she's from the pre-CoIE
Earth-2, or from the "Earth-2" planet that's among the 52 worlds
created in the series 52. DC seems to take every opportunity to
simplify their universe and use it to overcomplify it instead.
Super-Menace
> As Anlatt alludes to, there was actually a Jimmy's dream -- or
> imaginary-story type if you want to look at it that way -- version
> of Supergirl in one story before that.
It wasn't a dream or an Imaginary Tale. Jimmy wished Super-Girl (note
the styling of the name) into existence through the use of an ancient
totem that granted him three wishes. Super-Girl was the result of the
first wish. See Superman v1 123 (August 1958).
This story is seen as a tryout for Supergirl, but I think they were
going to go ahead with that anyway -- and, of course, Super-Girl was an
adult who Jimmy had intended to be a girlfriend for Superman. DC would
later jump through hoop after hoop to rule Supergirl out as a potential
mate for Superman.
Kara Zor-El was introduced less than a year after the Super-Girl story,
in Action Comics 252 (May 1959).
> The only thing that's really surprised me, pleasantly, is how unequivocal the
> publicity and spoilers are here that this character is the real deal, best
> version of Supergirl: Superman's cousin Kara. WGF in the other casting
> thread mentions Power Girl, which I'm vaguely familiar with as being one of
> the comic travesty versions but not the real deal. But few in the wider
> viewership would understand those comic travesties let alone care. They had
> a Matrix gob of goo Supergirl and her convoluted story, while they made Power
> Girl Superman's cousin and named her Kara, and in the interim they had a Kara
> in an Aliens crossover, and there was a Ghost Kara who appeared in a Deadman
> holiday special or some such, and Peter David did a Blended Supergirl series
> that had bits of different versions in it... geez, what an absolute mess.
DC had to keep using Supergirl, or it risked losing the trademark. The
no-other-Kryptonians rule (which never made any sense to me) forced the
creation of Goo Girl.
There was another Kara in the "Superman: Aliens" arc published in 1995.
This Kara was the only survivor of a free-floating city named Argo, and
it seemed for a couple of issues that this was a post-Crisis Kara on a
post-Crisis Argo City that had once been part of Krypton, but -- dammit
-- she wasn't, and in fact she's never been seen or referred to again.
For a couple of issues there, though, what amounted to a post-Crisis
Kara sold a lot of books.
The various animated WB Superman and Superman-related series on The WB
in the 1990s had a Kara, Kara In-Ze, who was the only survivor of Argo,
a planetary neighbor of Krypton. This is about as close as they could
come to the origin of Kara Zor-El without violating the
no-other-Kryptonians rule. (The name of the original Kara Zor-El's
mother was Allura In-Ze.)
> But The CW press release, and the spoilers leading up to it, were very clear
> -- Supergirl, Clark's cousin Kara Zor-El from Krypton. That's what surprised
> me. If the press had been "Supergirl, a gob of goo created by accident in
> Lex Luthor's lab..." the reaction would have been so toxic the whole concept
> would be DOA. But damn if they didn't get it right.
Yes, they did get it right. Supergirl has to be Superman's cousin.
Nothing else works nearly as well.
> Which leads to my response to your "People seem to want this
> show" point. I actually think that's specifically NOT the message
> to take from it at this point. People are buzzing about Supergirl,
> Kara, Clark's cousin, being introduced to the show. I think the
> show has a huge opportunity here if it does the other right things
> it needs to do, and rides the interest in Kara with that. It could
> get not just a season 8 but a movie series if it did that. And there
> are some hopeful signs in some specific comments that have
> been made. This Kara announcement is also hopeful in itself,
> because they finally got it right and they see the good reaction.
What I meant was that I think there's an appetite out there for a
Supergirl spinoff series. There's just too much buzz to ignore. I
have no strong opinion about whether "Smallville" does well or ill with
this. It seems more like an exercise in establishing a successor
franchise for the aging "Smallville."
I do think that "Smallville" itself does well when it sticks to
establishing the legend of Superman, and it does poorly when it gets
into magic, witchcraft and other such crap. Somebody else pointed out
that we don't see Clark patrolling Metropolis, which he's supposedly
been doing -- I don't know, between episodes? During commercials?
Bathroom breaks?
Ken Arromdee
KalElFan <kale...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>In any case, the huge travesty arises that AFTER they've killed
>off the original, real deal *SUPERGIRL* in 1986, DC pigheadedly
>refuses to bring her back for 20 years. What they do instead is
>tease with so much other bait and switch crap AND have the after-
>the-fact copycat poseur refugee from Earth 2 named Power Girl
>doing the Kal-El's cousin from Krypton shtick.
Umm, she didn't do the schtick at all--they pretty quickly retconned Power
Girl into being an Atlantean.
Power Girl didn't become a parallel universe counterpart of Supergirl
again until they brought back Kara.
YKW '06
> Power Girl was created by Roy Thomas.
Gerry Conway. With visual assists from Joe Orlando and Wally Wood. The
closest the Rascally One got to contributing to her creation was acting as
a soundingboard for some of Gerry's ideas in the run up to the ALL-STAR
COMICS relaunch. (Conway did invite Thomas to take a more active part in
her development as an uncredited co-writer, but Roy's contractual
relationship with Marvel at the time left him feeling ethically bound to
decline.)
YKW '06
random electrons to communicate as follows:
> In article <5de9aqF...@mid.individual.net>,
> KalElFan <kale...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>In any case, the huge travesty arises that AFTER they've killed
>>off the original, real deal *SUPERGIRL* in 1986, DC pigheadedly
>>refuses to bring her back for 20 years. What they do instead is
>>tease with so much other bait and switch crap AND have the after-
>>the-fact copycat poseur refugee from Earth 2 named Power Girl
>>doing the Kal-El's cousin from Krypton shtick.
>
> Umm, she didn't do the schtick at all--they pretty quickly retconned
> Power Girl into being an Atlantean.
>
> Power Girl didn't become a parallel universe counterpart of Supergirl
> again until they brought back Kara.
There were conversational references over the years to PG having appeared
early in post-CoIE Superman's career and spending a year or two in the
mistaken belief that she was his cousin, acclimating herself to the time
period under the care of the Kents, then eventually "discovering" her
"true" Atlantean heritage, though I don't believe any actual stories were
published explicitly showing this period. (It was referenced =heavily=,
though, when Connor Kent [the post-CoIE Superboy] lived on the Smallville
farm, then again in the Geoff Johns JSA:C PG arc.)
~consul
> Earth-2, or from the "Earth-2" planet that's among the 52 worlds
> created in the series 52. DC seems to take every opportunity to
> simplify their universe and use it to overcomplify it instead.
I've only glanced at 52 here and there. Was that actually what came out of 52? I thought it was just supposed to be great stories about B and C listers to shine while the big 3 were gone, for one year? I suppose it makes sense, sort of explains to me why Countdown was derived from it then. Still ... seems like the concept got usurped somehow.
KalElFan
On alt.tv.smallville "Jeri Jo Thomas" <kata...@earthlink.net> wrote
in message news:MPG.20dbe75c2...@news.east.earthlink.net...
> To be really nitpicky "Power Girl" was Lois Lane's super hero name
> when she acquired super powers in the 50s.
Just wanted to acknowledge all the clarifications, corrections, nitpicks,
trivia, etc., on various things in various parts of the thread, but say
that this one is unequivocally my favorite Power Girl one. The Power
Girl wikipedia entry says in the trivia section that it was in Superman
#125 (published late 1958). I double-checked and confirmed their
description of it as a Lois dream story. Lois also dreamed up a
Power Man as her Superman proxy in that dream, and had herself
saving a bumbling Clark Kent. :-)
Two issues of Superman earlier (numerically, Superman #123, in
mid-1958) was that story where Jimmy wished into existence a
Super-Girl -- a different character having as was pointed out that
slightly different spelling with the dash and the capital G. Anlatt
described her as being wished into existence, after which I then
characterized it as "... Jimmy's dream -- or imaginary-story type
if you want to look at it that way -- version of Supergirl..." after
which Super-Menace corrected me that is was a Jimmy's wish.
I'd read Anlatt's comments and realized that, but to me it fairly
meets the "Jimmy's dream... version of Supergirl" description.
Since he wished for her it's his dream girl in a way, and the story
didn't count was the main point. That Super-Girl was gone the
end of that issue just as the Lois dream Power Girl was gone
when Lois's dream ended. Sure, Jimmy didn't literally dream
of that Super-Girl while sleeping, and she actually asks to be
wished back away at the end. But it's all in the same doesn't
count vein as a dream or imaginary story.
Anlatt also restated in another post that Power Girl wasn't the
cousin of Kal-El right after Crisis, she was an Atlantean and it
all got very convoluted as others have pointed out. But he also
mentioned as I've seen elsewhere, including in another post here,
that they did first hint she might be Kal-El's cousin. She thought
she was, but then she wasn't, but then eventually after DC Dogma
about Clark having to be the last Kryptonian faded she became
his cousin. So it was a tease at first, followed by a travesty
when they stopped teasing and made it official, because at that
point the real deal Kara had no reason not to be reintroduced.
Power Girl was left as strictly the copycat, the original no where
in sight.
Again, I don't have a problem with the 1976 concept of Power
Girl being an alternate version of Kara. I do have a problem
with killing off Kara followed by 20 years of DC Dogma refusing
to bring her back, and then even in October 2005 when Loeb's
new Supergirl #1 comes out the tease is still on. I mentioned
I had read that early issue and dug it out, along with a 2000
reprint of the first Kara appearance in Action in May 1959.
In the Loeb #1, Supergirl (who's drawn noticeably anorexic-
looking as I realized again flipping through it last night) says
at one point in her last dialogue on about page 5:
"Me? I'm Kara Zor-El. Supergirl. I guess. Eventually. I hope."
That may even have been a Meta reference by Loeb, as in who
the frack knows whether DC will really let me be the real deal
Kara Supergirl. If the crying wolf again had bombed in the sales,
maybe they wouldn't have. Meanwhile, the predominant theme
of the issue is rivalry with Power Girl, the Supergirl copycat if
you can see this from the real deal Kara Supergirl's and her
proponents' point of view.
Hopefully the DC side of it is resolved now and there's absolutely
no question. It's basically back to the 1976 pre-Crisis scenario,
with the real deal Kara as Supergirl and the alternate version of
her, now literally from an alternate universe just as she was in
1976, being Power Girl and having a few different uh... attributes
the most noticeable of which, other than the name and costume,
is the way she's drawn. On The CW side, the press release is
very clear. Supergirl, Kara Zor-El, cousin of Kal-El. That's the
simple, essence of the character.
Super-Menace
<kalelfa...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Two issues of Superman earlier (numerically, Superman #123, in
> mid-1958) was that story where Jimmy wished into existence a
> Super-Girl -- a different character having as was pointed out that
> slightly different spelling with the dash and the capital G. Anlatt
> described her as being wished into existence, after which I then
> characterized it as "... Jimmy's dream -- or imaginary-story type
> if you want to look at it that way -- version of Supergirl..." after
> which Super-Menace corrected me that is was a Jimmy's wish.
>
> I'd read Anlatt's comments and realized that, but to me it fairly
> meets the "Jimmy's dream... version of Supergirl" description.
> Since he wished for her it's his dream girl in a way, and the story
> didn't count was the main point. That Super-Girl was gone the
> end of that issue just as the Lois dream Power Girl was gone
> when Lois's dream ended. Sure, Jimmy didn't literally dream
> of that Super-Girl while sleeping, and she actually asks to be
> wished back away at the end. But it's all in the same doesn't
> count vein as a dream or imaginary story.
I have to stop you there. This was the Weisinger Era. Characters
would undergo immense changes during a story, and at the end everything
would be reset somehow and the status quo ante would be restored. For
instance, in Superman v1 136 (April 1960), the lead story is "The Man
Who Married Lois Lane." In this one, Lois meets and marries a
super-powered man from the 25th century, returns with him to his era,
finds (for a variety of reasons) that she can't handle being married to
the guy, the guy dies getting her back to 1960 (conveniently making
Lois a widow) -- and all of this happens in just nine pages. That
Lois' marriage was short and, obviously, completely without meaning for
her, doesn't make it imaginary or a dream.
Virtually *all* significant stories of that era, the ones that promised
change but never delivered, didn't count. There were too many stories
that were resolved by red kryptonite or it-was-a-dream cop-outs to
allow the Super-Girl story to somehow stand alone as a special example,
especially as it was neither of those. (Your cite of Lois as Power
Girl is an excellent example of Mort Weisinger's "life is but a dream"
approach to story-telling.) Characters routinely did things, or were
acted upon with enormous effect, without permanent consequence.
Super-Girl was not a dream, not a red kryptonite hallucination, and not
an Imaginary Tale. Like almost everything else back then, she was
(unfortunately) disposable.
> In the Loeb #1, Supergirl (who's drawn noticeably anorexic-
> looking as I realized again flipping through it last night) says
> at one point in her last dialogue on about page 5:
>
> "Me? I'm Kara Zor-El. Supergirl. I guess. Eventually. I hope."
>
> That may even have been a Meta reference by Loeb, as in who
> the frack knows whether DC will really let me be the real deal
> Kara Supergirl. If the crying wolf again had bombed in the sales,
> maybe they wouldn't have. Meanwhile, the predominant theme
> of the issue is rivalry with Power Girl, the Supergirl copycat if
> you can see this from the real deal Kara Supergirl's and her
> proponents' point of view.
I don't think they quite know what they're doing. The Supergirl in the
Legion title is a traditional take on Kara. She's cute, eager to
please, the whole shebang. The Kara of the Supergirl title is --
bizarre. She was sent to Earth to murder Kal-El (why is not important
here) and her story's become a depiction of her inner struggle about
whether to murder him or not. (She apparently now thinks she
shouldn't.)
My sense is, from reading fan comments and reviews, that the Legion
Kara is the one people want to see, and the Kara in the Supergirl title
is viewed as an aberration.
> On The CW side, the press release is
> very clear. Supergirl, Kara Zor-El, cousin of Kal-El. That's the
> simple, essence of the character.
Yes.
KalElFan
> What I meant was that I think there's an appetite out there for a
> Supergirl spinoff series. There's just too much buzz to ignore. I
> have no strong opinion about whether "Smallville" does well or ill
> with this. It seems more like an exercise in establishing a
> successor franchise for the aging "Smallville."
We see it the same way then at this point. And if she's used for
little more than pining after Jimmy and selling iPods, it won't do
much for the prospects of a spin-off either. But they *could* lift
all boats here if they make the right creative decisions.
Gough says they plan (he used the word plan in both cases) to
have Dean Cain and Helen Slater play roles on the show this
season. If they play Jor-El and Lara I don't think it'll do much.
If they play Zor-El and his wife it'll be even more pointless. But
let's say that the crumbling of the obstacles that have brought
us Kara are also propelling Smallville to do a multiverse arc in
season 7 and possibly 8.
They killed both Kara and the multiverse at about the same time
in the comics, but here they have the great reaction to Kara.
And Heroes had its Alternate Universe as did L&C (a popular
ep or two) and Buffy and Star Trek. Other SF shows are debuting
this Fall on the major networks, and Smallville itself has gone
more SF the last couple of years.
A Multiverse story -- Smallville can use its own rules for it --
would allow the Smallverse to be placed in the context of the
wider Superman story. Maybe Cain plays an Alternate Clark,
and Slater an Alternate Kara, not necessarily from the same
universes but just adjacent or close by. Both are a bit older
and more experienced versions of Clark Kent and Linda Lee.
If that's what the Cain and Slater casting foreshadows, that
story would have huge potential and I predict gets the same
kind of buzz and favorable reaction this Kara introduction does.
It depends how good the story is.
KalElFan
> I don't disagree with you, just pointing out that Power Girl wasn't
> part of the tease.
If it's true they had her thinking she was Superman's cousin from
the get-go after Crisis, then it was a tease too. David's series when
it started out was also a tease -- we didn't know exactly what the
character was going to be. Deadman, same thing. Kara from Aliens,
same thing, and I also quoted the first Loeb issue from October 2005,
this latest Supergirl. It was another "Is she or isn't she?" tease. In
fact with the new info (to me) that Super Menace posted, where that
Kara was sent to kill Kal-El, it's another bait and switch.
So I think "Tease & Travesty" is indeed the title of the DC & Supergirl
story the last 20 years, including the Power Girl stuff. But again it
looks like they got it right now in Smallville so moving on...
[re the unspecified, very effective way I thought they could introduce
Power Girl to Smallville]
> Presumably the first (fake) Kara
They could, but I wouldn't bother. That Kara was a murderous avatar
of murderous Jor-El, the Jor-El who should be explained as a
corrupted program tampered with by Brainiac/Zod. A few lines of
dialogue from Kara could do it. No need to revisit it beyond that.
In fact it could be part of the same explanation why something went
wrong with Kara's ship and it put her back into suspended animation.
She could say to Clark "Not everything you thought reflected
the real Jor-El was him, at least not your ship's avatar of him.
The one at the caves could have been corrupted as well, but
the one at the Fortress was secure..." She could even have
known that "Of the two messages that were sent, the one
urging you to rule Earth was false. It was corrupted by Zod
and the one you knew as Professor Fine..."
That fills in the blank on Swann as well, and those few lines
of dialogue in a couple of scenes could tie up some problem
loose ends that will remain blotches on the series otherwise.
It's not her primary purpose, but it's easy to use Kara for this
purpose as well and the should.
But getting back to Power Girl, we've established in this thread
discussion (for anyone not familiar with her, and I've learned a
lot about her too) that she's an alternate universe version of
Kara, right? She's been through a convoluted mess like Kara
has, but that's the essence of the character.
And so any alternate universe story in Smallville, even just a one-
shot like many series have had, could have an Alternate Kara
stick around in the Smallverse and adopt the name Power Girl.
Or a Power Girl could just guest star that way. Once Kara has
been introduced as she is in the process of being, introducing
the alternate universe or multiverse concept is the only other
piece necessary to do it. There's more to the best way that
I think they should do this, but that's the basics of it.
KalElFan
> In article <5dic9jF...@mid.individual.net>, KalElFan
> <kalelfa...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> I'd read Anlatt's comments and realized that, but to me it fairly
>> meets the "Jimmy's dream... version of Supergirl" description.
>> ... it's all in the same doesn't count vein as a dream or imaginary
>> story.
>
> I have to stop you there. This was the Weisinger Era. Characters
> would undergo immense changes during a story, and at the end
> everything would be reset somehow...
You're generalizing in a way that's directly at odds with the point
that was made. I was comparing (i) Jimmy wishing his Dream
Super-Girl into existence and then wishing her out again at the
end, with (ii) an imaginary story or a sleeping dream that Lois
has about becoming Power Girl, and most importantly in the
context of the main discussion (iii) the official introduction of
Kara, Superman's cousin, the best version of Supergirl.
You chose to extend the Super-Girl comparison to Lois marrying
some alien and then it gets reset and forgotten. So? DUH!
I agree, it's no different in principle than the Super-Girl story
or the Power Girl dream in my point. I never said there weren't
many stories in Silver Age that were just like an imaginary story
in the sense that they were a one-shot now fugeddaboutit kind
of thing. In retrospect, they perhaps should have called it that
in your example of Lois marrying the alien -- just slap Imaginary
Story on it as the label.
Here's where we strongly disagree:
> Virtually *all* significant stories of that era, the ones that promised
> change but never delivered, didn't count...
No, not at all. The most significant stories of the era are the ones
like Action #252 introducing Supergirl, which is EXACTLY what my
point was contrasting with the "Jimmy's Dream Super-Girl" story as
it could easily have been titled. Likewise the introduction of the
Legion of Super-Heroes, another Millennium edition reprint I have.
When villains were introduced, or a new color of kryptonite, or
a character like Lori Lemaris, all of these things added to the
mythos and those were not reset or forgotten after a single issue.
Every time Mxyzptlk reappeared, it became another in the series
of Mxy appearances and stories. Many times Superman may
have got him to say or spell his name backwards to banish him
back to the 5th dimension. When Brainiac appeared, it was
another encounter with that villain.
> There were too many stories that were resolved by red kryptonite
> or it-was-a-dream cop-outs to allow the Super-Girl story to somehow
> stand alone as a special example...
I never said it was a special example in the context of the different,
extended comparison you've now made. I also don't think that a
reset is bad per se. There can be good stories told that have to be
reset. That Sally Selwyn one, which appears in the Superman in
the 60s trade paperback, is virtually identical to the other examples
if the "reset" attribute is the comparison point.
> Super-Girl was not a dream, not a red kryptonite hallucination, and
> not an Imaginary Tale.
No, but she was Jimmy's Dream Super-Girl that he asked to be
conjured up. And then she was gone.
> Like almost everything else back then, she was (unfortunately)
> disposable.
I think it was actually quite fortunate, because a better Supergirl
came along who was Superman's cousin. But in any case that
cousin version is the one that didn't get reset or wished back
out of existence by Jimmy after one issue, spelling her name
differently in the process.
> The Kara of the Supergirl title is -- bizarre. She was sent to
> Earth to murder Kal-El...
STOP! Blasphemers, all of them! :-)
Actually I didn't know that but it validates my decision to just buy
that first issue. I'd have hated that story and left later anyway.
I thought the Batman finding her business might be the kind of
minor difference between the comic and Smallville, but that's
a whopper. Fortunately Smallville's is described as a protector
and that's where the spin-off potential is, so I doubt they'd be
stupid enough to screw it up with a bait and switch.
> My sense is, from reading fan comments and reviews, that
> the Legion Kara is the one people want to see, and the Kara
> in the Supergirl title is viewed as an aberration.
For people reading the comics, maybe. But of course the millions
watching a TV show just know she's Superman's cousin Kara,
sent here to protect him but then ending up a year or two younger
after the 16 years in suspended animation. She's destined to be
Supergirl but isn't yet. Beyond that, the viewership's ignorance
about modern comics is not only bliss but damn lucky for TPTB
and The CW.
Anlatt the Builder
>
>
> I'd read Anlatt's comments and realized that, but to me it fairly
> meets the "Jimmy's dream... version of Supergirl" description.
> Since he wished for her it's his dream girl in a way, and the story
> didn't count was the main point. That Super-Girl was gone the
> end of that issue just as the Lois dream Power Girl was gone
> when Lois's dream ended. Sure, Jimmy didn't literally dream
> of that Super-Girl while sleeping, and she actually asks to be
> wished back away at the end. But it's all in the same doesn't
> count vein as a dream or imaginary story.
>
I think you're playing semantic games here. "Jimmy's dream... version
of Supergirl" is completely different than "the story was a dream,
imaginary story, or hoax." The word "dream" is being used in two
completely different ways. If I used the word "dream" in my post, then
it was a mistake. The character WASN'T "Jimmy's dream version of
Supergirl," since there was no Supergirl at that point - she was a
character Jimmy wished into existence, who was called Supergirl.
The term "imaginary story, dream, or hoax" has a particular meaning to
people who are interested in continuity. The difference is this: AS
WRITTEN, the Jimmy Olsen-wished Supergirl should not have been
forgotten by the characters - and, when Kara arrived, the others
characters should have been at least a little puzzled by the
similarity. The fact that they weren't is, effectively, a continuity
error.
If it had been "an imaginary story," then no one would classify the
later reactions as a continuity error.
Not that it makes any practical difference, then or now, but I think
the distinction is worth maintaining because of other cases when it
comes up. (Despite the famous "aren't they all?" comment that people
love to quote, but which isn't very useful in making distinctions
concerning shared universes.)
Super-Menace
<kalelfa...@yahoo.com> wrote:
But that goes to my point. The tag "Imaginary Story" meant something
very specific -- i.e., an out-of-continuity story in which Lois might
marry someone other than Superman, for example; I recall one in which
she married a reformed Lex Luthor and their son turned evil. Just
slapping "Imaginary Story" on "The Man Who Married Lois Lane" doesn't
work, because the story is in continuity and doesn't violate it in any
way. Indeed, continuity is affirmed under Mort Weisinger's "history
can't be changed" rule.
My point was that enormous things would routinely happen in very short
Superman stories, but (as you put it) the reset button would be hit and
all would be the same at the end. You seemed to be saying that since
the Super-Girl story was short, it didn't really count. I'm saying
that brevity in those days didn't matter.
I guess that Jimmy wishing for something via a magic totem was nothing
special back then, either. Magic was flying around in the Silver Age
like bugs at a picnic.
> Here's where we strongly disagree:
>
> > Virtually *all* significant stories of that era, the ones that promised
> > change but never delivered, didn't count...
>
> No, not at all. The most significant stories of the era are the ones
> like Action #252 introducing Supergirl, which is EXACTLY what my
> point was contrasting with the "Jimmy's Dream Super-Girl" story as
> it could easily have been titled. Likewise the introduction of the
> Legion of Super-Heroes, another Millennium edition reprint I have.
>
> When villains were introduced, or a new color of kryptonite, or
> a character like Lori Lemaris, all of these things added to the
> mythos and those were not reset or forgotten after a single issue.
> Every time Mxyzptlk reappeared, it became another in the series
> of Mxy appearances and stories. Many times Superman may
> have got him to say or spell his name backwards to banish him
> back to the 5th dimension. When Brainiac appeared, it was
> another encounter with that villain.
I meant more that the characters, the quality and circumstances of
their lives and so forth, would rarely if ever change. As you say,
elements new to the mythos were introduced regularly. What I'm trying
to get across here is that you would get something like the
introduction of Lori Lemaris, but you wouldn't see the death of Lori or
Lori becoming fully human and staying that way.
> > There were too many stories that were resolved by red kryptonite
> > or it-was-a-dream cop-outs to allow the Super-Girl story to somehow
> > stand alone as a special example...
>
> I never said it was a special example in the context of the different,
> extended comparison you've now made. I also don't think that a
> reset is bad per se. There can be good stories told that have to be
> reset. That Sally Selwyn one, which appears in the Superman in
> the 60s trade paperback, is virtually identical to the other examples
> if the "reset" attribute is the comparison point.
The problem with Sally Selwyn was that she was too popular. There she
was, in this little slip of a story (the second story in that issue,
IIRC), and she stole the thing. People demanded a sequel, so they got
one six months later, but it was a sequel that effectively eliminated
Sally Selwyn from Superman's life. Here was Sally, who was a grown-up
woman (unlike Lois or Lana) who loved Superman for himself. She was
just too good to keep around. The instant acceptance of Sally Selwyn
by readers should have told Mort Weisinger that he had his head up his
butt when it came to the way he was handling his standard characters.
Instead, he got rid of Sally as fast and as permanently as he could
without actually killing her.
> > Super-Girl was not a dream, not a red kryptonite hallucination, and
> > not an Imaginary Tale.
>
> No, but she was Jimmy's Dream Super-Girl that he asked to be
> conjured up. And then she was gone.
>
> > Like almost everything else back then, she was (unfortunately)
> > disposable.
>
> I think it was actually quite fortunate, because a better Supergirl
> came along who was Superman's cousin. But in any case that
> cousin version is the one that didn't get reset or wished back
> out of existence by Jimmy after one issue, spelling her name
> differently in the process.
True enough, but Super-Girl seemed worth keeping around for at least a
few issues. These days, she'd probably get at least a four-month run
before you found out she was a killer robot or something.
> > The Kara of the Supergirl title is -- bizarre. She was sent to
> > Earth to murder Kal-El...
>
> STOP! Blasphemers, all of them! :-)
>
> Actually I didn't know that but it validates my decision to just buy
> that first issue. I'd have hated that story and left later anyway.
> I thought the Batman finding her business might be the kind of
> minor difference between the comic and Smallville, but that's
> a whopper. Fortunately Smallville's is described as a protector
> and that's where the spin-off potential is, so I doubt they'd be
> stupid enough to screw it up with a bait and switch.
>
> > My sense is, from reading fan comments and reviews, that
> > the Legion Kara is the one people want to see, and the Kara
> > in the Supergirl title is viewed as an aberration.
>
> For people reading the comics, maybe. But of course the millions
> watching a TV show just know she's Superman's cousin Kara,
> sent here to protect him but then ending up a year or two younger
> after the 16 years in suspended animation. She's destined to be
> Supergirl but isn't yet. Beyond that, the viewership's ignorance
> about modern comics is not only bliss but damn lucky for TPTB
> and The CW.
Again, true, but what I've seen written about Smallville Kara seems
very close to Legion Kara.
William George Ferguson
wrote:
>A Multiverse story -- Smallville can use its own rules for it --
>would allow the Smallverse to be placed in the context of the
>wider Superman story. Maybe Cain plays an Alternate Clark,
>and Slater an Alternate Kara, not necessarily from the same
>universes but just adjacent or close by. Both are a bit older
>and more experienced versions of Clark Kent and Linda Lee.
>
>If that's what the Cain and Slater casting foreshadows, that
>story would have huge potential and I predict gets the same
>kind of buzz and favorable reaction this Kara introduction does.
>It depends how good the story is.
Plus it would be a really neat show and tell for Hannah Watzke :)
William George Ferguson
wrote:
>"Super-Menace" <fort...@arctic.com.invalid> wrote in message
>news:160620071930026776%fort...@arctic.com.invalid...
>
>> Super-Girl was not a dream, not a red kryptonite hallucination, and
>> not an Imaginary Tale.
"Hoax"! You guys keep leaving out the first member of the Weisenger holy
trinity ("Not a hoax! Not a dream! Not an imaginary story!")
[snip]
>> The Kara of the Supergirl title is -- bizarre. She was sent to
>> Earth to murder Kal-El...
>
>STOP! Blasphemers, all of them! :-)
>
>Actually I didn't know that but it validates my decision to just buy
>that first issue. I'd have hated that story and left later anyway.
>I thought the Batman finding her business might be the kind of
>minor difference between the comic and Smallville, but that's
>a whopper. Fortunately Smallville's is described as a protector
>and that's where the spin-off potential is, so I doubt they'd be
>stupid enough to screw it up with a bait and switch.
The 'sent to Earth to kill Kal-El' was an add-in that got retconned out in
the latest issue, where it was revealed that an agent of the Monitors, had
mind-whammied her, to try to demonstrate that she shouldn't be allowed to
exist (the current plot of Countdown, which spills over into other comics,
is that a faction of the Monitors think that alternate universe characters
in the wrong universe and characters who 'should not exist' will lead a
repeat of Crisis. They've gone after characters like Duela Dent, Jason
Todd, Donna Troy, and Kara Zor-El (they haven't gone after Kara Zor-L yet,
but I'm sure they will, I imagine Dinah Lance will be on the hit parade at
some point also).
>> My sense is, from reading fan comments and reviews, that
>> the Legion Kara is the one people want to see, and the Kara
>> in the Supergirl title is viewed as an aberration.
Of course, they're supposedly the same character (we see Kara return to the
present in the first issue of World War III).
Super-Menace
Ferguson <wmgf...@newsguy.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 23:27:36 -0400, "KalElFan" <kalelfa...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> >"Super-Menace" <fort...@arctic.com.invalid> wrote in message
> >news:160620071930026776%fort...@arctic.com.invalid...
> >
>
> >> Super-Girl was not a dream, not a red kryptonite hallucination, and
> >> not an Imaginary Tale.
>
> "Hoax"! You guys keep leaving out the first member of the Weisenger holy
> trinity ("Not a hoax! Not a dream! Not an imaginary story!")
You're right. (Maybe I should answer with a wisecrack.)
>
> [snip]
>
> >> The Kara of the Supergirl title is -- bizarre. She was sent to
> >> Earth to murder Kal-El...
> >
> >STOP! Blasphemers, all of them! :-)
> >
> >Actually I didn't know that but it validates my decision to just buy
> >that first issue. I'd have hated that story and left later anyway.
> >I thought the Batman finding her business might be the kind of
> >minor difference between the comic and Smallville, but that's
> >a whopper. Fortunately Smallville's is described as a protector
> >and that's where the spin-off potential is, so I doubt they'd be
> >stupid enough to screw it up with a bait and switch.
>
> The 'sent to Earth to kill Kal-El' was an add-in that got retconned out in
> the latest issue, where it was revealed that an agent of the Monitors, had
> mind-whammied her, to try to demonstrate that she shouldn't be allowed to
> exist (the current plot of Countdown, which spills over into other comics,
> is that a faction of the Monitors think that alternate universe characters
> in the wrong universe and characters who 'should not exist' will lead a
> repeat of Crisis. They've gone after characters like Duela Dent, Jason
> Todd, Donna Troy, and Kara Zor-El (they haven't gone after Kara Zor-L yet,
> but I'm sure they will, I imagine Dinah Lance will be on the hit parade at
> some point also).
I was so damned confused by the instant retcon that I wasn't sure
exactly what it was that they were trying to tell me. Kara wasn't sent
to kill Ka-El, but she's still loaded with biocrystals she can use to,
uh, kill Kal-El.
It beats me where they're going to go with all this.
>
> >> My sense is, from reading fan comments and reviews, that
> >> the Legion Kara is the one people want to see, and the Kara
> >> in the Supergirl title is viewed as an aberration.
>
> Of course, they're supposedly the same character (we see Kara return to the
> present in the first issue of World War III).
Yes, and I should have taken pains to point that out, since the editors
and writers aren't bothering to do that.
Anim8rFSK
As opposed to World War Hulk.
So there's a series called World War III I have to track down issue one
of?
--
"When you see Alec Baldwin, you see the true ugliness of human nature."
-- Kim Jong II
KalElFan
> On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 23:27:27 -0400, "KalElFan"
> <kalelfa...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>A Multiverse story -- Smallville can use its own rules for it --
>>would allow the Smallverse to be placed in the context of the
>>wider Superman story. Maybe Cain plays an Alternate Clark,
>>and Slater an Alternate Kara, not necessarily from the same
>>universes but just adjacent or close by. Both are a bit older
>>and more experienced versions of Clark Kent and Linda Lee.
>>
>>If that's what the Cain and Slater casting foreshadows, that
>>story would have huge potential and I predict gets the same
>>kind of buzz and favorable reaction this Kara introduction does.
>>It depends how good the story is.
>
> Plus it would be a really neat show and tell for Hannah Watzke :)
Googled it (both the web and groups), but literally nothing comes
back except your post so I still don't get the "Hannah Watzke"
reference. While I'm at it here I'll continue the rest of my Power
Girl speculation.
Smallville should take the opportunity to do a tribute of sorts to
the different comic book versions of Kara, while at the same
time advancing the Smallville story and improving (or repairing)
the Smallville dynamic. It should be integrated into Smallville,
and not just a "Hi, I'm Power Girl and I just arrived here in the
Smallverse with my cousin Kal-El". That would achieve nothing,
and indeed confuse the hell out of people. Just tell a story that
works without realizing the comic references in it.
Make Slater's Kara and Cain's Clark cousins from the same
alternate universe. Slater arrives intending to sacrifice herself
in the final battle (May 2008) against the multiversal threat.
Someone has to die and she decides it's going to be her. It's a
nod to Crisis and Supergirl's death there. They could even have
Cain's Clark carry the body away as in that famous comic cover.
Slater's Kara is dead and gone. No memories or personality or
life essence stored anyplace, and nothing to revive. Chloe,
being human, couldn't revive her with a tear or every ounce
of her body liquefied. But at the moment of her death Slater's
Kara does upload her "Power Matrix" as the episode would
specifically call it, and she would have bequeathed that to Chloe.
Just the powers, molecular blueprint or what have you, that
Chloe, and Chloe alone has the capacity to download.
Why only Chloe? Because that's her current kryptofreak power
when you break it down. It's not healing, it's transference of
power, energy, or even life force. Both being human, Chloe
was able to shed the tear to save Lois. Transferring her own
life force to Lois nearly kills Chloe. But she's able to recover,
and after downloading the Slater-Kara's "Power Matrix" in the
season 7 finale she'll be shorted out in terms of transference
power, and locked in as permanently super-powered.
The term "Power" leads her to adopt the "Power Girl" name
for herself, though no costumes yet. The term "Matrix" was
a nod to the gob of goo Supergirl in the comics for those who
get that.
Whether Chloe ends up with Clark or not is a side issue. I
think she's best viewed as Smallville's version of Lois Lane,
but she gets permanent super powers. That 1958 story is
like more Karma Calling to TPTB to do it this way. But at a
minimum, she'd enter season 7 as Chloe Sullivan, Daily
Planet Reporter in the know on all things Kryptonian, and
she'd also be Power Girl.
The raw powers -- alone, no personality or memory, and
therefore no cousin obstacles -- were heroically bequeathed
to Chloe by an Alternate Kara who died saving not just the
Smallverse but its adjacent universes. And whether Chloe
one day marries Clark aka Superman or not, she'll be best
buds with his cousin Kara, the Smallverse's Supergirl. You
mentioned the camaraderie in the current comics. It was
the same idea with Superboy and Mon-El in the Silver Age
Legion, when the Legion worked.
In Smallville season 8 Chloe would be a much stronger and
useful character, compensating for the loss of Kara to the
spin-off. Both series will have what it takes to thrive in the
2008-09 season.
So there you have it. Chloe Sullivan *IS* Power Girl. :-)
She even has the curves for it. No way Hilary Duff could
pull off Power Girl. :-)
Step back and consider how this also plays in the overall
assessment of the Smallville series, from season 1, as
compared to the mess we have now. It so enhances the
rewatchability of the series, and there are other things they
can and should do that would add to that rewatchability
even more. More on that in a new thread by tomorrow.
KalElFan
news:5dob07F...@mid.individual.net...
[snip Chloe's route to becoming Power Girl]
> Whether Chloe ends up with Clark or not is a side issue. I
> think she's best viewed as Smallville's version of Lois Lane,
> but she gets permanent super powers. That 1958 story is
> like more Karma Calling to TPTB to do it this way. But at a
> minimum, she'd enter season 7 as Chloe Sullivan, Daily
> Planet Reporter in the know on all things Kryptonian, and
> she'd also be Power Girl.
She'd enter season 8 as that obviously, the later reference
in the post being correct. The season 7 finale is where she'd
acquire the powers.