How can Clark be such an idiot?
haydude
trap him.
I think that Smallville's authors should bring more respect to us.
HD
Ken from Chicago
"haydude" <hay...@alpensea.com> wrote in message
news:1147697875.9...@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
From the TPTB behind the horrible way Clark's treated Lana, his parents, his
friends, even Lex? Why should they change now?
-- Ken from Chicago
bf
More poor planning. As usual, they try to do too much in the last
episode, so it doesn't make much sense.
The thing is, Clark in the phantom zone wasn't even necessary. We know
he's going to pop out in the season premier, so why not just have Clark
and Zod fight for awhile, and then Clark runs away with Zod laughing or
something like that.
Yes, Clark is stupid. The female Zodling threw the same bracelet, so
Clark knew what it was. I guess Zod got the improved version which
sucks in Kryptonians faster and without a struggle.
Let's just hope the writers don't give us a lame ending to the Zod/Fine
story.
BC
"bf" <bfor...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1147785977....@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> haydude wrote:
>> He just waits there without a fight and do nothing waiting for Zod to
>> trap him.
>> I think that Smallville's authors should bring more respect to us.
>>
>> HD
>
> More poor planning. As usual, they try to do too much in the last
> episode, so it doesn't make much sense.
My take is that Clark didn't want to hurt the Lex body so he backed off the
fight. He did dodge the ashtray but unlike the one at Lex's he didn't have
a piece of rebar to hold onto. He would have been sucked in the same way at
the mansion. In the barn he is standing in the hay loft opening with
nothing to grab.
BC
bf
BC wrote:
> My take is that Clark didn't want to hurt the Lex body so he backed off the
> fight. He did dodge the ashtray but unlike the one at Lex's he didn't have
> a piece of rebar to hold onto. He would have been sucked in the same way at
> the mansion. In the barn he is standing in the hay loft opening with
> nothing to grab.
> BC
He could've supersped away at time stopping speed when he saw Zod about
to toss the portal. Instead, he just stood there like an idiot.
At bare minimum, couldn't they have had Zod and Clark fight and Zod
push Clark into the Zone.
BC
Looked like they were short on time. Maybe that scene was cut down some or
the decision to make it short to get in more rioting and ZLex holding Lana.
BC
Ken from Chicago
Clark, and the writers, frequently under-use super speed.
-- Ken from Chicago
bf
Ken from Chicago wrote:
.
>
> Clark, and the writers, frequently under-use super speed.
>
> -- Ken from Chicago
Yes, I guess Kryptonians don't really think at super speed either LOL
Other than maybe Jorel. I'm pretty confident the writers will have Zod
make a dumb move so Clark can beat him. I hope not, but that's what I
fear.
bf
BC wrote:
> Looked like they were short on time. Maybe that scene was cut down some or
> the decision to make it short to get in more rioting and ZLex holding Lana.
> BC
Could be. If that was the case, I really wished they stretched the last
2 episodes into 3 or 4 episodes then. Of course, the same thing happens
every season. They deliberately want to pack in a bunch of things in
the finale that appear to be life altering. (of course, in the next
season's premier or episode two, we see everything reset again).
I can picture the writers hanging out and thinking.. "Wait, we've got
to do something with Martha and Lois too. Let's have Fine steal their
plane, even though that makes no sense." Although I did get a good
laugh when they showed Fine piloting the plane, now that Clark is
trapped in the PZ, what use are Martha and Lois? Unless Fine wants to
have a party at the Fortress of Solitude, why kidnap them? If Fine
wants to kill them, he could've easily speared them at any time the
whole season.
PPPG
| now that Clark is
| trapped in the PZ, what use are Martha and Lois?
Several reasons are possible. The first, insurance. He knows Jor-Ai is
still out and about so he expects Clark to be released by him and he wants
to have some leverage should Clark overcome his fear of hurting people and
instinctively holding back. The second is maybe he realizes Zod is more
than he can handle so he's intentionally bringing them to help release
Clark.
Either way, as Jor-el altered Lionel's day to day thinking, Zod might have
the same effect on the Lex thus creating his power and control feelings.
--
TTFN
Scott
Deaf Does NOT Equate Daft ... in other people's cases.
My DVD Collection: http://tinyurl.com/vcdt
Money can't buy happiness -- but somehow it's more comfortable to cry
in a Corvette than in a Yugo.
CrimsnKid6
<<The second is maybe he realizes Zod is more
than he can handle so he's intentionally bringing them to help release
Clark.>>
That's a pretty damned quick *reversal* on Fine's part, just
releasing Zod (after all that effort and planning) only to immediately
decide that it was a mistake.
Doesn't Fine effectively serve Zod anyway?
And BTW, what can Martha and Lois do to help release Clark from the
Phantom Zone that any two other people couldn't?
<<Either way, as Jor-el altered Lionel's day to day thinking, Zod might
have
the same effect on the Lex thus creating his power and control
feelings.>>
I have the feeling that Lex's persona is going to be permanently
repressed--Zod already has stated that Lex is dead--to the degree that
Zod can possibly do so.
However, I do think that Lex's strong will is still inside his body
somewhere.
I figure this to be a different kind of possession than the rather
benign, "once-in-a-while" one that Jor-el has over Lionel.
If it does influence Lex (once he's back fully) into becoming
power-hungry, that would certainly be Clark's fault in some sense--he
did, after all, largely leave Lex to deal with Fine's menace when it
really should have been his (Clark's) job to do so...
L.L.A.P.,
--C.K.
BC
They should make multiple copies of all the characters like they did Fine
and they would have more options. Kill Lana, OK we have two more--kill
Jonathan, no problemo we have five to go. :-)
BC
BC
"CrimsnKid6" <Crims...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1147820902.0...@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> PPPG on Fine's motivations:
>
> <<The second is maybe he realizes Zod is more
> than he can handle so he's intentionally bringing them to help release
> Clark.>>
>
> That's a pretty damned quick *reversal* on Fine's part, just
> releasing Zod (after all that effort and planning) only to immediately
> decide that it was a mistake.
> Doesn't Fine effectively serve Zod anyway?
I think this is highly unlikely. Does a computer like Fine have loyalty?
Does it know fear? I think it just follows Zod's orders.
BC
>
> And BTW, what can Martha and Lois do to help release Clark from the
> Phantom Zone that any two other people couldn't?
>
> <<Either way, as Jor-el altered Lionel's day to day thinking, Zod might
> have
> the same effect on the Lex thus creating his power and control
> feelings.>>
>
> I have the feeling that Lex's persona is going to be permanently
> repressed--Zod already has stated that Lex is dead--to the degree that
> Zod can possibly do so.
> However, I do think that Lex's strong will is still inside his body
> somewhere.
Kind of goes against comic canon doesn't it? To have Lex and Zod be the
same villain?
Bc
>
> I figure this to be a different kind of possession than the rather
> benign, "once-in-a-while" one that Jor-el has over Lionel.
It rather mirrors the possession that the Kal-el persona had over Clark.
BC
PPPG
"CrimsnKid6" <Crims...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1147820902.0...@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
| That's a pretty damned quick *reversal* on Fine's part, just
| releasing Zod (after all that effort and planning) only to immediately
So basically it's a slam dyunk by the writers? ;-)
| decide that it was a mistake. Doesn't Fine effectively serve Zod anyway?
On the show, you may be right, in the coomics, not as I recall. But it may
also have been hero-worship or maybe he thinks the Zex combo corrupted Zod.
Who knows? It was just an idea
| And BTW, what can Martha and Lois do to help release Clark from the
| Phantom Zone that any two other people couldn't?
Maybe if Fine releases Clark he hopes Clark doesn't decide to cut loose on
him?
| I have the feeling that Lex's persona is going to be permanently
| repressed--Zod already has stated that Lex is dead--to the degree that
| Zod can possibly do so.
Zod knows Clark is Kal-el "You have your father's eyes", so he'll be washed
out somehown.
| However, I do think that Lex's strong will is still inside his body
| somewhere.
Maybe that kiss with Lana gives him the chubby that drives Zod out?! <bg>
| I figure this to be a different kind of possession than the rather
| benign, "once-in-a-while" one that Jor-el has over Lionel.
Yeah but Jor-el seems to have had an impact on Lionel's day to day thinking.
Just a couple of years ago Lionel would have wanted to disect Clark. That's
what I mean, while Jor-el seems to have pumped life into Lionel's 'Good
Side' Zod might empower Lex's 'Dark Side'.
| If it does influence Lex (once he's back fully) into becoming
| power-hungry, that would certainly be Clark's fault in some sense--he
| did, after all, largely leave Lex to deal with Fine's menace when it
| really should have been his (Clark's) job to do so...
True, but Clark accepting responsibility for his massive mistakes? Not on
this show.
bf
PPPG wrote:
> "bf" <bfor...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1147813949.4...@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
>
> | now that Clark is
> | trapped in the PZ, what use are Martha and Lois?
>
> Several reasons are possible. The first, insurance. He knows Jor-Ai is
> still out and about so he expects Clark to be released by him and he wants
> to have some leverage should Clark overcome his fear of hurting people and
> instinctively holding back.
Ok, but then does one of the Fines plan on holding Martha and Lois as
hostages indefinitely? It would seem more convienent to grab a hostage
when Clark escapes from the phantom zone. That way, you don't have to
feed the hostages for years (or endure Lois' talking for years).
The second is maybe he realizes Zod is more
> than he can handle so he's intentionally bringing them to help release
> Clark.
>
If I understand, Fine's entire purpose was to release Zod. He's only an
android. Why would Fine fear Zod? There's no way Fine releases Clark.
Ken from Chicago
Then again, Fine could have grabbed the hostages BEFORE knowing if Clark
would be captured. Maybe the Fines don't have telepathy or have to be in
close proximity to know each other's thoughts.
-- Ken from Chicago
PPPG
| Ok, but then does one of the Fines plan on holding Martha and Lois as
| hostages indefinitely? It would seem more convienent to grab a hostage
| when Clark escapes from the phantom zone. That way, you don't have to
| feed the hostages for years (or endure Lois' talking for years).
Lois might be a bonus, Martha might have been the intended victim, QA boy
will go to just about any length to protect his loving mom. But after
learning <sic> the lesson of what happened by not slitting Lex's throat, he
might not have the same compunctions about a total stranger. Martha is no
idiot - once she learns Fine caused this chaos, look for her to figure out a
way in the Fortress (I'm assuming that is where they are going) to release
Clark. A boy may go any length, but a mom will go further.
| If I understand, Fine's entire purpose was to release Zod. He's only an
| android. Why would Fine fear Zod? There's no way Fine releases Clark.
Brainiac is an Artificial INTELLIGENCE, at least in the comics, he's fully
sentient. He follows his original programming, but he looks beyond it when
he feels the need. He may have, basically, said to himself, "What an idiot
this Neo Zod is! Doesn't he watch TV? You need to KILL the hero fast, not
just imprison them. They ALWAYS escape and stop the bad guy, dammit.
Doesn't he ever watch Doctor Who?"
BC
He isn't a lifeform.
Bc
BC
"PPPG" <gimplygump-REMOVE-@-ME-aim.com> wrote in message
news:MN3bg.15074$LE4....@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...
>
> "bf" <bfor...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1147972529.3...@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> | Ok, but then does one of the Fines plan on holding Martha and Lois as
> | hostages indefinitely? It would seem more convienent to grab a hostage
> | when Clark escapes from the phantom zone. That way, you don't have to
> | feed the hostages for years (or endure Lois' talking for years).
>
> Lois might be a bonus, Martha might have been the intended victim, QA boy
> will go to just about any length to protect his loving mom. But after
> learning <sic> the lesson of what happened by not slitting Lex's throat,
> he
> might not have the same compunctions about a total stranger. Martha is no
> idiot - once she learns Fine caused this chaos, look for her to figure out
> a
> way in the Fortress (I'm assuming that is where they are going) to release
> Clark. A boy may go any length, but a mom will go further.
Seems like the writers would be opening a can of worms if they take the two
to the Fortress. It would be ok if it were Martha but to have LOIS see the
Fortress and understand it would be a mistake. So where are they going if
not there? Why crash the plane if they are nearly dead from lack of oxygen?
Why somther them when Fine could just snap their necks? All answers seem
dumb. I say they're going somewhere but I hope it isn't the Fortress.
BC
PPPG
"BC" <bcp...@core.com> wrote in message
news:HL5bg.73672$F_3....@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
| Seems like the writers would be opening a can of worms if they take the
| two to the Fortress. It would be ok if it were Martha but to have LOIS
| see The Fortress and understand it would be a mistake.
When has that ever stopped them?
BC
"PPPG" <gimplygump-REMOVE-@-ME-aim.com> wrote in message
>
> "BC" <bcp...@core.com> wrote in message
> news:HL5bg.73672$F_3....@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
>
> | Seems like the writers would be opening a can of worms if they take the
> | two to the Fortress. It would be ok if it were Martha but to have LOIS
> | see The Fortress and understand it would be a mistake.
>
> When has that ever stopped them?
That's what I'm afraid of. The story arc (for me itsoesn't have to follow
the "canon") is zig zagging around now trying to piece together these
stories by many different writers. They could add more confusion. I don't
think the actors know how to act the parts anymore.
Good--bad--possessed--split--combined--ghost--no powers--krypto powers--Zod
powers--computer powers--holy crap Batman!
BC
PPPG
| Good--bad--possessed--split--combined--ghost--no powers--krypto
powers--Zod
| powers--computer powers--holy crap Batman!
I liked how someone else described it: make Flash/Bart Allen come and save
Lionel and Chloe when coming to Clark to see if he knew why the world was in
chaos. Make Bart a recurring, but not every episode - maybe 1 in 4,
character and have him flash off (sorry had to say it) a spin off at the end
of the season. It'd be more sensible to have him, he is faster than
Kryptonian's as seen at the end of 'Run', steal the PZ device from Zex and
release Clark than most everything I think they'll use. That way the PZ's
'infallible prison' mystique isn't ruined by something like Clark saying,
"On No, I'm trapped in a mirror. What-so-ever shall I do? .... Oh screw the
7 years bad luck" <shatter>
BC
"PPPG" <gimplygump-REMOVE-@-ME-aim.com> wrote in message
>
> "BC" <bcp...@core.com> wrote in message
> news:fn6bg.73691$F_3....@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
>
> | Good--bad--possessed--split--combined--ghost--no powers--krypto
> powers--Zod
> | powers--computer powers--holy crap Batman!
>
> I liked how someone else described it: make Flash/Bart Allen come and save
> Lionel and Chloe when coming to Clark to see if he knew why the world was
> in
> chaos. Make Bart a recurring, but not every episode - maybe 1 in 4,
> character and have him flash off (sorry had to say it) a spin off at the
> end
> of the season. It'd be more sensible to have him, he is faster than
> Kryptonian's as seen at the end of 'Run', steal the PZ device from Zex and
> release Clark than most everything I think they'll use. That way the PZ's
> 'infallible prison' mystique isn't ruined by something like Clark saying,
> "On No, I'm trapped in a mirror. What-so-ever shall I do? .... Oh screw
> the
> 7 years bad luck" <shatter>
I'd like to see him return. That was probably the best season 4 episode.
Bc
PPPG
| I'd like to see him return. That was probably the best season 4 episode.
Now that Kyle Gallner's character on VM is dead, maybe he will.
BucketButt
Clark *could* think at super-speed, and probably does to some degree
when he moves at super-speed; but he grew up among humans who think
more slowly, and that's what he's used to. It may take a conscious
effort to think faster when he isn't actually moving faster.
Ken from Chicago
No, fear is a programmed reaction. Often an antagonist will show compassion
when confronted with someone who recoils in fear from their actions.
-- Ken from Chicago
BC
"Ken from Chicago" <kwicker1...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:CLedncpYVf1tR_LZ...@comcast.com...
I was under the impression that fear was a survival mechanism. And as such
wasn't programmed or learned but rather was ingrained--it is hard wired.
BC
>
> -- Ken from Chicago
>
BC
"BucketButt" <bucke...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:esdu62l4974g25avm...@4ax.com...
BC
Ken from Chicago
It can be programmed into a synthetic being.
-- Ken from Chicago
marika
"CrimsnKid6" <Crims...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1147820902.0...@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> That's a pretty damned quick *reversal* on Fine's part, just
> releasing Zod (after all that effort and planning) only to immediately
> decide that it was a mistake.
if you snuck the word ebullient in there somewhere no one would have the
nerve to reject you
> Doesn't Fine effectively serve Zod anyway?
otherwise it is perfect, you hit every bullet in your outline.
>
> And BTW, what can Martha and Lois do to help release Clark from the
> Phantom Zone that any two other people couldn't?
I would like to this question, but I would submit a powerpoint and a
"matrix", the tools of business not superman analysis
>
> <<Either way, as Jor-el altered Lionel's day to day thinking, Zod might
> have
> the same effect on the Lex thus creating his power and control
> feelings.>>
>
> I have the feeling that Lex's persona is going to be permanently
> repressed--Zod already has stated that Lex is dead--to the degree that
> Zod can possibly do so.
They'd know Lex didn't belong there right away.+
mk5000
"Die Jet , is een fijne meid, heeft meestal tijd en...
aan de rest schijt...
zo is het maar net...
Lieve lieve Jet!!! "--voor jet, dreamcceltic
marika
>
>
> They should make multiple copies of all the characters like they did Fine
> and they would have more options.
wouldn't that violate some rule of nepotism
as long as kim song il is not into nepotism, all is well in the world
>Kill Lana, OK we have two more--kill Jonathan, no problemo we have five to
>go. :-)
>
he probably eats his sibs, don't encourage consumption of these duplicats
mk5000
"if ((light eq dark) && (dark eq light)
&& ($blaze_of_night{moon} == black_hole)
&& ($ravens_wing{bright} == $tin{bright})){
my $love = $you = $sin{darkness} + 1; };"--perl version of Jim
Steinman's song The Invocation.
Joe Harrell
position to help her son, Lois is probably just incidental.
"bf" <bfor...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1147972529.3...@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
CrimsnKid6
<<One reason why Fine might take Martha is to prevent her from being in
a position to help her son, Lois is probably just incidental.>>
What could Martha do to help Clark get out of the Phantom Zone,
especially if she and Lois were in Washington?
If the stolen plane is being taken to the Fortress, as some posters
have speculated, then isn't Fine taking Martha to the only location
from which she might (depending on how much detailed information she
knows about its workings) actually be able to help release Clark?
Lois being a busybody could turn out to be useful too...
L.L.A.P.,
--C.K.
BC
Sorry, I was speaking of "for real" here. I assume that synthetic beings
are still at the fantasy stage.
Bc
>
> -- Ken from Chicago
>
>
Ken from Chicago
Regardless, you can program a fearful reaction into a synthetic being.
Whether a simulation of fear can be so exact that it becomes a recreation of
fear, I'll leave to up to you.
-- Ken from Chicago
BC
Just not sure of any examples of synthetic beings. The best computer can
beat a man at chess I understand but that is about it. There is no self
aware computer out there. To have or understand fear, a being would have to
be self aware.
>
> -- Ken from Chicago
>
Ken from Chicago
Animatronics, robots, Aibo, Nintendog, Asimo, P3, NPCs in computer and
console games. They all can be programmed with varying degrees of
SIMULATIONS of fear. Are they self aware, nope.
But then again fear does not require sentience. Animals can be fearful.
Whether or not Fine had a MENTAL fearful reaction, or if any robot can have
a genuie mental emotional fearful state is point of debate. They definitely
can be simulate a fearful PHYSICAL reaction--which is mainly what I was
referring when saying that if someone displays fear then their antagonist
may have a change of heart (ala a dog baring it's neck or running away from
another leading to an antagonist dog calming down and not being so hostile).
Personally I would argue a fearful mental state could be programmed in by
simply assigning fearful responses to various items so that the synthetic
being (robot or aritificial intelligence) obsessed over the item of fear, or
went into a comalike paralysis where all its processing slowed down to a
crawl or it became manic, etc.
You could even assign fear ratings to random items, places or people. From
the logical (e.g., extreme temperatures, fast moving objects, sharp objects)
to the mundane (e.g., spiders, inserts, rodents, cats) to the irrational
(e.g., wide open spaces, small enclosed spaces, bright or dark areas,
revealing your super-powers to the one you are in love with, etc.)
-- Ken from Chicago
BC
That is religious dogma. Religion ASSUMES they aren't sentient.
>
> Whether or not Fine had a MENTAL fearful reaction, or if any robot can
> have a genuie mental emotional fearful state is point of debate.
We could be considered sophisticated organic computers.
>They definitely can be simulate a fearful PHYSICAL reaction--which is
>mainly what I was referring when saying that if someone displays fear then
>their antagonist may have a change of heart (ala a dog baring it's neck or
>running away from another leading to an antagonist dog calming down and not
>being so hostile).
>
> Personally I would argue a fearful mental state could be programmed in by
> simply assigning fearful responses to various items so that the synthetic
> being (robot or aritificial intelligence) obsessed over the item of fear,
> or went into a comalike paralysis where all its processing slowed down to
> a crawl or it became manic, etc.
My thoughts are that when a computer becomes self aware then the will for
self preservation will come with that. Fear is just a way for us to kick in
the adrenalin and "fight or flight".
Ken from Chicago
>
> "Ken from Chicago" <kwicker1...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:e9Wdnb5p4LA...@comcast.com...
<snip>
>> Animatronics, robots, Aibo, Nintendog, Asimo, P3, NPCs in computer and
>> console games. They all can be programmed with varying degrees of
>> SIMULATIONS of fear. Are they self aware, nope.
>>
>> But then again fear does not require sentience. Animals can be fearful.
>
> That is religious dogma. Religion ASSUMES they aren't sentient.
What scientists believe animals are sentient? Please cite the source.
>> Whether or not Fine had a MENTAL fearful reaction, or if any robot can
>> have a genuie mental emotional fearful state is point of debate.
>
> We could be considered sophisticated organic computers.
Sure.
>>They definitely can be simulate a fearful PHYSICAL reaction--which is
>>mainly what I was referring when saying that if someone displays fear then
>>their antagonist may have a change of heart (ala a dog baring it's neck or
>>running away from another leading to an antagonist dog calming down and
>>not being so hostile).
>>
>> Personally I would argue a fearful mental state could be programmed in by
>> simply assigning fearful responses to various items so that the synthetic
>> being (robot or aritificial intelligence) obsessed over the item of fear,
>> or went into a comalike paralysis where all its processing slowed down to
>> a crawl or it became manic, etc.
>
> My thoughts are that when a computer becomes self aware then the will for
> self preservation will come with that. Fear is just a way for us to kick
> in the adrenalin and "fight or flight".
Sentience doesn't require emotion or even a sense of self preservation as
witnessed by people who suicidal, psychopathic, sociopathic, drugged,
comatose, have suffered brain injury, etc.
BC
>
> "BC" <bcp...@core.com> wrote in message
> news:v1qcg.31884$4L1....@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
>>
>> "Ken from Chicago" <kwicker1...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> news:e9Wdnb5p4LA...@comcast.com...
>
> <snip>
>
>>> Animatronics, robots, Aibo, Nintendog, Asimo, P3, NPCs in computer and
>>> console games. They all can be programmed with varying degrees of
>>> SIMULATIONS of fear. Are they self aware, nope.
>>>
>>> But then again fear does not require sentience. Animals can be fearful.
>>
>> That is religious dogma. Religion ASSUMES they aren't sentient.
>
> What scientists believe animals are sentient? Please cite the source.
Sentient: Able to percieve with the senses. I should think that even a
bacterium could percieve with its senses.
>
>>> Whether or not Fine had a MENTAL fearful reaction, or if any robot can
>>> have a genuie mental emotional fearful state is point of debate.
>>
>> We could be considered sophisticated organic computers.
>
> Sure.
>
>>>They definitely can be simulate a fearful PHYSICAL reaction--which is
>>>mainly what I was referring when saying that if someone displays fear
>>>then their antagonist may have a change of heart (ala a dog baring it's
>>>neck or running away from another leading to an antagonist dog calming
>>>down and not being so hostile).
>>>
>>> Personally I would argue a fearful mental state could be programmed in
>>> by simply assigning fearful responses to various items so that the
>>> synthetic being (robot or aritificial intelligence) obsessed over the
>>> item of fear, or went into a comalike paralysis where all its processing
>>> slowed down to a crawl or it became manic, etc.
>>
>> My thoughts are that when a computer becomes self aware then the will for
>> self preservation will come with that. Fear is just a way for us to kick
>> in the adrenalin and "fight or flight".
>
> Sentience doesn't require emotion or even a sense of self preservation as
> witnessed by people who suicidal, psychopathic, sociopathic, drugged,
> comatose, have suffered brain injury, etc.
See above def. Look up the word as I don't think it is the word you want.
BC
Ken from Chicago
>
> "Ken from Chicago" <kwicker1...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:84ednQ-vN5l...@comcast.com...
>>
>> "BC" <bcp...@core.com> wrote in message
>> news:v1qcg.31884$4L1....@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
>>>
>>> "Ken from Chicago" <kwicker1...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>> news:e9Wdnb5p4LA...@comcast.com...
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>>> Animatronics, robots, Aibo, Nintendog, Asimo, P3, NPCs in computer and
>>>> console games. They all can be programmed with varying degrees of
>>>> SIMULATIONS of fear. Are they self aware, nope.
>>>>
>>>> But then again fear does not require sentience. Animals can be fearful.
>>>
>>> That is religious dogma. Religion ASSUMES they aren't sentient.
>>
>> What scientists believe animals are sentient? Please cite the source.
>
> Sentient: Able to percieve with the senses. I should think that even
> a bacterium could percieve with its senses.
That definition of the word, yes, I agree, animals and even plants can
percieve with senses. However in the meaning of being self-awere, no.
>>>> Whether or not Fine had a MENTAL fearful reaction, or if any robot can
>>>> have a genuie mental emotional fearful state is point of debate.
>>>
>>> We could be considered sophisticated organic computers.
>>
>> Sure.
>>
>>>>They definitely can be simulate a fearful PHYSICAL reaction--which is
>>>>mainly what I was referring when saying that if someone displays fear
>>>>then their antagonist may have a change of heart (ala a dog baring it's
>>>>neck or running away from another leading to an antagonist dog calming
>>>>down and not being so hostile).
>>>>
>>>> Personally I would argue a fearful mental state could be programmed in
>>>> by simply assigning fearful responses to various items so that the
>>>> synthetic being (robot or aritificial intelligence) obsessed over the
>>>> item of fear, or went into a comalike paralysis where all its
>>>> processing slowed down to a crawl or it became manic, etc.
>>>
>>> My thoughts are that when a computer becomes self aware then the will
>>> for self preservation will come with that. Fear is just a way for us to
>>> kick in the adrenalin and "fight or flight".
>>
>> Sentience doesn't require emotion or even a sense of self preservation as
>> witnessed by people who suicidal, psychopathic, sociopathic, drugged,
>> comatose, have suffered brain injury, etc.
>
> See above def. Look up the word as I don't think it is the word you want.
> BC
Touche. You were right. I was wrong.
Replace "sentient" with "sapient".
BC
that's quite a bit different. In animals the wisdom is usaually
attributed to "instinct" but cats need to be taught to kill mice, baby birds
are coached to fly, other animals teach their young to hunt etc. Chimps and
gorillas build nests, use tools to extract termites and so do birds. There
are many cases of animal learning to do things on their own. So there is
some degree of acquired knowledge and its application (wisdom) in animals.
BC
Ken from Chicago
Whichever phrase you prefer for self-aware, cognizant, conscious, etc.
-- Ken from Chicago