Superman and Biology 101
Mbruno
How about elementary biology though ? Specifically, I´ve always
wondered how the Kryptonian species, which has evolved in a planet
thousands (?) of light years away from Earth under completely different
environmental conditions, may look anatomically and possibly
physiologically identical to humans ! What is the probability of that
happening under the laws of evolutionary biology ?
redhawk
I'm not sure that Krypton has such different environmental conditions,
it's always appeared reasonably Earth-like from what I've seen. ISTM
that convergent evolution is feasible under the circumstances.
Clark could look human much the same way a porpoise looks like a fish.
fredjones
news:1166052622.2...@l12g2000cwl.googlegroups.com:
>
> Mbruno wrote:
>> We all know that Superman愀 powers seem to defy the laws of physics.
>> How about elementary biology though ? Specifically, I扉e always
>> wondered how the Kryptonian species, which has evolved in a planet
>> thousands (?) of light years away from Earth under completely
>> different environmental conditions, may look anatomically and
>> possibly physiologically identical to humans ! What is the
>> probability of that happening under the laws of evolutionary biology
>> ?
>
> I'm not sure that Krypton has such different environmental conditions,
> it's always appeared reasonably Earth-like from what I've seen. ISTM
> that convergent evolution is feasible under the circumstances.
>
> Clark could look human much the same way a porpoise looks like a fish.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convergent_evolution
>
>
yes but he (almost) flies and has heat and x ray vision and can run
really fast and hear really well and jump really high and...did someone
mention the laws of physics too?
advance scout
"Mbruno" <br...@ele.ita.br> wrote in message
news:1166052045....@16g2000cwy.googlegroups.com...
well depends- if we are talking about the laws of Darwinian evolution the
odds are exactly 0%.... BUT.... if we are talking about the laws of
Siegelian and Shusterian evolution.... well than I'd have to say the
probability is about 100%- give or take a percent or two.
Besides don't you remember the Beppo Monkey trials.
Julio Laredo
Well, only to the degree of some of his powers fall go against
quantum mechanics. Otherwise, though very improbable, not
impossible.
Brian (aka Zod)
maybe they evolved on a planet like earths at the latter end of the life
cycle of their sun.. then had to retreat to a planet further out when it
started to show signs of becoming a red giant? Maybe they played around
with their own dna to be able to survive the different graviational
forces as well.
- Brian
Reasoned Insanity
It's called weird science.
Bradster
"Reasoned Insanity" <mintclovers@@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Pqkgh.12445$gj2....@newsfe23.lga...
Perhaps being able to counteract the effects of gravity is due to an inate
ability to control the spin direction of every atom in his body and, in
turn, have a repulsive effect on gravitational pull. This is similar to
change the polarity and strength of an electromagnetic. Effectively, his
body becomes a giant bio-chemical electromagnet. I wonder how his flight
abilities might logically work when outside the solar system and the
gravitational effects of the planets or the sun.
Brad
Benjamin Pavsner
roughly the same thickness and flexibility (Supes CAN move his arms and
legs, aside from being able to blink his eys). Here's the question: how can
Superman be so invulnerable that he can survive an atomic explosion? I
mean, we can discuss this "mass vs. volume" thing, but Supe's skin would
have to be VERY much more dense than what it's portrayed as.
BC
"Benjamin Pavsner" <pavs...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:6DUgh.327$641...@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
> Here's what gets me: Kryptonian skin looks like human skin and looks to be
> roughly the same thickness and flexibility (Supes CAN move his arms and
> legs, aside from being able to blink his eys). Here's the question: how
> can Superman be so invulnerable that he can survive an atomic explosion?
> I mean, we can discuss this "mass vs. volume" thing, but Supe's skin would
> have to be VERY much more dense than what it's portrayed as.
His power may not be in his skin--he may generate an electromagnetic field
of some type that acts not only as a shield but cancels gravity and inertia.
Why would density help him survive an atomic explosion? I would think that
some force could divert radiation and blast if it were strong enough much
the way they are trying to create controlled and sustained nuclear fusion in
magnetic "bottles".
> "Mbruno" <br...@ele.ita.br> wrote in message
> news:1166052045....@16g2000cwy.googlegroups.com...
> We all know that Superman´s powers seem to defy the laws of physics.
> How about elementary biology though ? Specifically, I´ve always
> wondered how the Kryptonian species, which has evolved in a planet
> thousands (?) of light years away from Earth under completely different
> environmental conditions, may look anatomically and possibly
> physiologically identical to humans ! What is the probability of that
> happening under the laws of evolutionary biology ?
>
>
Similar environments may produce similar results.
advance scout
"Benjamin Pavsner" <pavs...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:6DUgh.327$641...@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
gee whiz..... ITS A COMIC BOOK!!! WRITTEN BY TWO TEENAGERS! GROW UP!
YOU'RE TRYING TO SCIENTIFICALLY EXPLAIN A FUCKING 10 CENT COMIC BOOK WRITTEN
IN 1938
>
advance scout
> gee whiz..... ITS A COMIC BOOK!!! WRITTEN BY TWO TEENAGERS! GROW UP!
> YOU'RE TRYING TO SCIENTIFICALLY EXPLAIN A FUCKING 10 CENT COMIC BOOK
> WRITTEN IN 1938
>
>
>
>>
Oh yeah- how do you brainiacs (note the suble Superman connection) figure
that Santa Clause's reindeer fly? Or Rudolphs nose glows? Or he gets down
the Chimney? Or he gets to 22 billion homes in one night?
There that should keep you retards busy for awhile.
advance scout
> There that should keep you retards busy for awhile.
>
>
Ahhhhhh..... I feel so much better now. Time for my nap.
Benjamin Pavsner
and a teaspoon of material from a white dwarf star? Even though both take up
the same amount of space, the latter is dense enough to way many many tons
while the former weighs maybe a milligram. Same with Superman's skin: it
might take up the same space, but would be greatly more dense.
"BC" <bcp...@core.com> wrote in message
news:AaVgh.231$ZT3...@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com...
>
> "Benjamin Pavsner" <pavs...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:6DUgh.327$641...@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
>> Here's what gets me: Kryptonian skin looks like human skin and looks to
>> be roughly the same thickness and flexibility (Supes CAN move his arms
>> and legs, aside from being able to blink his eys). Here's the question:
>> how can Superman be so invulnerable that he can survive an atomic
>> explosion? I mean, we can discuss this "mass vs. volume" thing, but
>> Supe's skin would have to be VERY much more dense than what it's
>> portrayed as.
>
> His power may not be in his skin--he may generate an electromagnetic field
> of some type that acts not only as a shield but cancels gravity and
> inertia.
>
> Why would density help him survive an atomic explosion? I would think
> that some force could divert radiation and blast if it were strong enough
> much the way they are trying to create controlled and sustained nuclear
> fusion in magnetic "bottles".
>
>> "Mbruno" <br...@ele.ita.br> wrote in message
>> news:1166052045....@16g2000cwy.googlegroups.com...
>> How about elementary biology though ? Specifically, I扉e always
BC
> Look at density this way: what's the difference, say, a tea spoon of sugar
> and a teaspoon of material from a white dwarf star? Even though both take
> up the same amount of space, the latter is dense enough to way many many
> tons while the former weighs maybe a milligram. Same with Superman's skin:
> it might take up the same space, but would be greatly more dense.
Don't see how that would prevent his skin from destruction from a nuke.
Lead is denser than stainless steel but it melts on the stove top--stainless
melts at around 2500F. Mercury and Gold are also more dense and the same
for gold melting and mrecury is already a liquid. I don't think that
density could explain his invulnerabiltiy.
BC
"advance scout" <iva...@nospam.optonline.net> wrote in message
news:uWWgh.322$5e3...@newsfe09.lga...
BC
BC
Rudolph's nose must of course be Red Kryptonite and that is why you don't
see Reindeer being raised on the Kent farm. Santa is able to squeeze down
those chimney's because he's actually a holographic projection. No one in
their right mind would fly in and open sleigh. Reindeer fly because the
turbulence of air rushing around the antlers creates a hyperstatic vortex
resulting in an area of lower air pressure that mimics lift and thrust.
How does he serve 22 billion homes? Well how did MacDonald's serve a
trillion hamburgers? The same way. In the case with MacDonalds, that many
cattle have never existed in the history of the earth--they did it with
multiple inverse parallel universes. Yep, believe it or not, there is an
infinite number of Santas delivering 1 gift to 1 house. So it can be done
in an instant and explains why Santa is so fat.
Oh and this only kept me busy for 2 minutes--you have to do better. :-)
Cheers,
BC
Art Vandelay
<iva...@nospam.optonline.net> said:
>
>>
>
> gee whiz..... ITS A COMIC BOOK!!! WRITTEN BY TWO TEENAGERS! GROW
> UP! YOU'RE TRYING TO SCIENTIFICALLY EXPLAIN A FUCKING 10 CENT COMIC
> BOOK WRITTEN IN 1938
Thank you for pointing that out! Fucking geeks need to stop trying to
come up with rational explanations for FICTIONAL stuff that happens in
a comic book and on a TV show. Just sit back and enjoy it.
BC
"Art Vandelay" <nu...@unix.site> wrote in message
news:2006121615500616807-null@unixsite...
It is just a fun exercise---don't take everything so literal. Go sell some
latex. Get some Christmas spirit--get drunk, but lighten up. And stop
trying to police the goddamn group. If someone wants to have fun with an
idea then what is it to you?
BC
David E. Milligan
> news:6DUgh.327$641...@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
>> Here's what gets me: Kryptonian skin looks like human skin and looks to
>> be roughly the same thickness and flexibility (Supes CAN move his arms
>> and legs, aside from being able to blink his eys). Here's the question:
>> how can Superman be so invulnerable that he can survive an atomic
>> explosion? I mean, we can discuss this "mass vs. volume" thing, but
>> Supe's skin would have to be VERY much more dense than what it's
>> portrayed as.
>
> His power may not be in his skin--he may generate an electromagnetic field
> of some type that acts not only as a shield but cancels gravity and
> inertia.
>
> Why would density help him survive an atomic explosion? I would think
> that some force could divert radiation and blast if it were strong enough
> much the way they are trying to create controlled and sustained nuclear
> fusion in magnetic "bottles".
Maybe his skin absorbs nuclear radiation like it does solar radiation
and it increases his invulnerability that much more.
Julio Laredo
"advance scout" <iva...@nospam.optonline.net> wrote in message
news:%wXgh.134$8L3...@newsfe11.lga...
>
He's a saint, and thus has access to the Power of God.
You are quite simple, you know.
Julio Laredo
"Benjamin Pavsner" <pavs...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:6DUgh.327$641...@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
writers unknowingly get things right, and to prove wrong
those who dismiss fiction as something not worth
thinking about. I have found the latter to be always
ignorant that the basis of any good fiction to be fact.
Anyway, it is simply a matter of gathering the evidence,
and seeing if his invulnerability could be reverse
engineered using, then extrapolating from, what is
current scientific knowledge.
As presented by the writers and the artists, there seems
to be no apparent difference in appearance between
Superman's skin and a human's. In his guise of Clark
Kent no one has ever mentioned his skin looks non-human.
There has never been a mention that his skin feels funny
after a simple handshake. But, his skin is not only
impenetrable, but under some conditions exhibits a more
than tool steel hardness. With these observations we
can eliminate one explanation: sorry, John Byrne, but as
even you have written and drawn, your explanation for a
force-field, or "aura" just doesn't fit the evidence.
At least, not entirely.
To begin a possible explantion, first consider, and I am
not making this up, fullerenes. These are molecular
configurations of carbon atoms, like diamond or
graphite, one of which can be found in common soot.
Some configurations are harder than diamond. Now, here
is some speculation: what if a part of Kryptonian
physiology is replacing carbon chains as found in humans
with fullerene chains, this could be the start of
something .......... durable. And fullerenes could also
explain some other things special about Superman. Like,
how can he have near light speed reflexes? That would
take organic high temperture superconductors, right?
So, guess what? Alkaline fullerenes are organic high
temperature superconductors, and there is some research
now to try to use them to make, using enzymes, very
small and powerful computers. How small and powerful?
A Cray in the size of a sugar cube.
How is this significant? There is some evidence that,
in one case, the electromagnetic field created by a
superconductor change gravitational attraction; it could
have made, and I am not making this term up, either,
dark energy. And in the presense of dark energy, the
number crunching suggests that funny things happen.
Now, here are the facts: there are fullerenes. Here are
the suggestions: there really might be something called
"dark energy" which might be the most powerful force in
the universe, and which might be formed by the energy
field generated by superconductors. Here is the
speculation: Superman, like all Kryptonians, have many
fullerene compounds in his physiogomy. Away from his
red sun, and in the presense of a yellow sun his nervous
system, consisting of high-temperature organic
superconductors, generates a dark energy field. This
energy field causes the fullerenes in his skin to align
into a configuraton harder and stronger than they would
have on their own.
Isn't science great?
advance scout
>>
>> There that should keep you retards busy for awhile.
>
> Oh and this only kept me busy for 2 minutes--you have to do better. :-)
>
> Cheers,
> BC
>
>
I didnt mean you , BC. I knew that that a conundrum like that would only
keep you busy for 2 minutes at the most... BUT the others??? We probably
won't hear from them until after new years. I mean after all... determining
the density of Kal-Els
neutrons and electrons under the influence of a yellow sun ... and whilst
also calculating the F required in F=MA where M = (6 reindeer + sleigh + fat
jolly man with beard + 1.2 billion presents)... why thats gotta take those
dolts at least three weeks.
>
BC
the question--and I'm not shy about answering a question. It is of course
funny to think about a fat man wearing red flitting about faster than light
in a gravity defying open sleigh powered by a number of interdimensional
alien creatures that just happen to resemble reindeer. Now I wonder what
powers are hidden in that bejeweled and festooned tree that's lurking in the
corner of the living room? Could it be a subspace receiver, intercepting
the atomically disintegrated and transmitted gifts from Santa's sleigh? Is
Santa Claus just another name for the diabolical alien villain and scourge
of galaxies, Kre-as Kringaal, the eater of children's souls?
Questions for another time. :-)
BC
BC
"Julio Laredo" <jrlar...@insightbb.com> wrote in message
news:l_SdnQB2TqfDXhnY...@insightbb.com...
>
> "Benjamin Pavsner" <pavs...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:6DUgh.327$641...@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
>> Here's what gets me: Kryptonian skin looks like human skin and looks to
>> be roughly the same thickness and flexibility (Supes CAN move his arms
>> and legs, aside from being able to blink his eys). Here's the question:
>> how can Superman be so invulnerable that he can survive an atomic
>> explosion? I mean, we can discuss this "mass vs. volume" thing, but
>> Supe's skin would have to be VERY much more dense than what it's
>> portrayed as.
>> "Mbruno" <br...@ele.ita.br> wrote in message
>> news:1166052045....@16g2000cwy.googlegroups.com...
>> How about elementary biology though ? Specifically, I扉e always
Science is great and fun and it is great to speculate and enjoy the
research. However, on the practical side, batteries still suck, software
seldom works the way it is supposed to, my dual Pentium 2.4 ghz machine is
barely faster in real world use than my dual 300mhz computer. It is also
getting difficult to find a manual anything--there are toothbrushes that
have computers in them. I'm waiting on those computerized digital
paperclips. Of course you would say that I'm confusing technology with
science. The future has always been full of hope, and then we die.
As far as Supe and carbon is concerned--carbon burns. Diamonds burn and I
don't see Supe being made of carbon Fullerenes. I think a better
explanation is that he generates an electromagnetic field envelope that
diverts plasma--cross circuits inertia and sucks power from the solar wind.
For other readers--just speculating for fun--withhold your flamethrower--the
fantasy is still intact.
BC
Julio Laredo
>
> "Julio Laredo" <jrlar...@insightbb.com> wrote in message
> news:l_SdnQB2TqfDXhnY...@insightbb.com...
>>
>> "Benjamin Pavsner" <pavs...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>> news:6DUgh.327$641...@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
>>> Here's what gets me: Kryptonian skin looks like human skin and looks to
>>> be roughly the same thickness and flexibility (Supes CAN move his arms
>>> and legs, aside from being able to blink his eys). Here's the question:
>>> how can Superman be so invulnerable that he can survive an atomic
>>> explosion? I mean, we can discuss this "mass vs. volume" thing, but
>>> Supe's skin would have to be VERY much more dense than what it's
>>> portrayed as.
>>> "Mbruno" <br...@ele.ita.br> wrote in message
>>> news:1166052045....@16g2000cwy.googlegroups.com...
>>> How about elementary biology though ? Specifically, I´ve always
Yes, carbon burns. But the ignition temperture of carbon goes up dependent
upon the crystalline configuration: diamond has a higher ignition temp than
graphite, and ultra-hard fullerene higher than diamond. And that is the
case until ........
I think a better
> explanation is that he generates an electromagnetic field envelope that
> diverts plasma--cross circuits inertia and sucks power from the solar
> wind.
the dark energy field. The field lines up the fullerenes so that the bonds
cannot break, not even at high temperatures. And, according to the number
crunching, funky things happen with inertia in the presence of a dark energy
field.
How does it feel to help me prove my point?
BC
Feels fine--credit me in the footnotes! :-)
Julio Laredo
Okay. As Old What'sitsface.
BC
However, you may want to check your calculations. If it is simply his skin
that is made of carbon fullerenes then that makes his skin invulnerable. If
you put an egg into a kevlar bag and whack it with a hammer the kevlar
survives nicely, but the egg doesn't do so well. So an invulnerable skin
wouldn't protect his internal organs. If his entire body is made of carbon
fullerenes then it seems that they would not be able to be converted by the
biological processes needed to sustain life. I can't see him having
invulnerable digestive enzymes etc. And how about his brain? A
motorcyclist can die from brain injuries and his helmet can survive. It is
the force of the brain hitting the skull that kills in a sudden stop. So
can these fullerenes make up his brain tissue--synapses? Can the
fulleerenes be his blood?
I don't think this can be explained with dark matter that has a repulsive
force or negative G. The force that would be in dark matter's negative G
would be weak compared to electromagnetism and the strong nuclear force. If
it were stronger than the strong nuclear force then it would push his body
apart--tearing apart the atoms of his body possibly in an explosion. That
doesn't sound so good.
It would seem that my version of him generating a protective inertial
dampening field would be better and safer.
Old "What'sitsface"
Bradster
I concur. I think Kryptonians must have direct control over the atoms
within their bodies. Being able to control them (e.g. effect spin rates &
direction) is probably the secret to manipulating forces at the atomic
level. Multiplied by trillions upon trillions of atoms within his body
enables him to control or exude insane force levels. Transcending
gravitational an inertial forces is certainly all related to the same atomic
and molecular control that Supey has. One area we haven't delved into is
quantum mechanics and how Old Blue Tights might be able to control the
forces of the universe at the quantum level (beyond the atomic level).
Rick Sciacca
>
> It's called weird science.
>
>
It's called a comic.
-- Rick
http://fixupix.tripod.com/
http://www.backprint.com/cnypix
Bradster
"Rick Sciacca" <sh...@twcny.rr.com> wrote in message
news:C1ABAC6F.892F%sh...@twcny.rr.com...
A science-fiction comic with more of an emphasis on fiction than science.
However, that doesn't mean we can't create or clarify what was missing from
the original material given the scientific knowledge available today. A
large percentage of what we call scientific reality today was, in fact,
sci-fi at on time. Hang on...I'm getting a call on my "communicator"... ;-)
Buckaroo Banzai
"Mbruno" <br...@ele.ita.br> wrote in message
news:1166052045....@16g2000cwy.googlegroups.com...
We all know that Superman´s powers seem to defy the laws of physics.
How about elementary biology though ? Specifically, I´ve always
wondered how the Kryptonian species, which has evolved in a planet
thousands (?) of light years away from Earth under completely different
environmental conditions, may look anatomically and possibly
physiologically identical to humans ! What is the probability of that
happening under the laws of evolutionary biology ?
First question: All elementary biology is elementary.
First Wondering: The vast majority of intelligent alien species are humanoid
bipedal entities... Albeit the vast majority of intelligent alien species
are fictional....
Second Question: Just a wild guess here, but I'd say about a quadrillion to
one.
Bradster
"Buckaroo Banzai" <blisteringlogi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Qhshh.10539$hI....@newssvr11.news.prodigy.net...
>
> "Mbruno" <br...@ele.ita.br> wrote in message
> news:1166052045....@16g2000cwy.googlegroups.com...
> We all know that Superman´s powers seem to defy the laws of physics.
> How about elementary biology though ? Specifically, I´ve always
> wondered how the Kryptonian species, which has evolved in a planet
> thousands (?) of light years away from Earth under completely different
> environmental conditions, may look anatomically and possibly
> physiologically identical to humans ! What is the probability of that
> happening under the laws of evolutionary biology ?
That's been my biggest beef with almost all sci-fi TV shows and feature film
movies. It seems like a lame excuse for the writers, producers and
directors to make it cheap and easy to film. It also creates extra work for
actors and makeup artists that they wouldn't have otherwise.
Julio Laredo
The fullerenes wouldn't make him invulnerable. Maybe a little more durable,
which would be an evolutionary advantage if, as many of the writers written,
Krypton had a gravity 50 times that of Earth's. However, it is a field of
some kind, generated by his body which acts on the fullerene compounds to
pull them into place, making the bonds unbreakable, thereby making his skin
impenetrable. The field does other things, too: turning aside or
redirecting energies, flying, some of the other things he does. But, one or
the other isn't enough to explain what has been presented alone. It takes a
combination.
And could explain his suit, or something like it. If he suit was made of
kryptonian animal fibers, they could be made of fullerene nanotubes. When
the suit is against his skin it would react to the energy field and be as
super as he was. Away, though, or if the field was shut down as when he's
being menaced by kryptonite radiation, it would no longer have the
superness. And fullerenes can have a memory. so even if it was damaged,
when it was influenced by the field the suit would repair itself, the bonds
it "remembers" being restored.
BC
that his generated field extended to the suit. In Superman Returns we see
his suit being bullet proof and he plunges through fire and molten earth.
But when he was on the Krypto Island, Lex easily plunges a krypto knife
through the suit. Also in the hospital, the doctors easily rip the suit off
of Supe because he has a sliver of green kryptonite embedded in his body.
That tells me that when Supe is weakened the suit is weakened and so I said
that his body is generating a field that protects the suit.
BC
BC
"Bradster" <bdhayR...@ATHotmailDOT.com> wrote in message
news:nfthh.497672$5R2.78636@pd7urf3no...
travel) they may have to take the same path through evolution. Four limbs
for mobility on dry land, bipedal movement to free up two limbs, the two
extra limbs then are used to manipulate the environment--make tools. It may
require the same kind of brain structure and maybe the same social structure
to get to that point. Dolphins have big brains but can't manipulate tools
(no opposable fin). God only knows what they do with all that brain power
but they seem to be limited to their natural underwater existence.
Never-the-less they are an intelligent alien lifeform right here. Next
maybe are the octopi and squids. If we have no luck communicating with them
I wouldn't think we'd have much luck communicating with life from another
star system unless it followed a similar evolutionary path to our own. So
maybe using human types as aliens in film isn't too far fetched?
BC
Julio Laredo
"Buckaroo Banzai" <blisteringlogi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Qhshh.10539$hI....@newssvr11.news.prodigy.net...
>
Now you get to the real application of Wells's Law. Quantum mechanics
allows, to some extent, versions of Superman's powers to be possible.
However, way down on the list of probabilities is that a creature able to do
all the Superman can do would be indistinguishable from humans. This is
really where disbelief suspension does the heavy lifting.
Julio Laredo
The doctors didn't rip it off him. One of his suit's characteristics as
presented in the comics is "super-elasticity." Not quite the right term,
but, he would often stretch his cape to cover areas the size of a football
field and it would always come back to its original shape, none the worse
for wear. So, the doctors just stretched the neck opening out.
Then, once his superfield came back online the fullerene nanotubes in the
suit "remembered" the original configuration and repaired itself, including
the tear.
Really, you are agreeing with me, in a way, since all I'm saying is that the
field that Superman's body generates makes only Kryptonian organic matter
invulnerable. And that is consistent with the comics prior to 1986.
BC
comics in the 60's. But, yes I kind of see the agreement. I just have a
thing for this ZPF theory research. At any rate, science can be applied to
something as fanciful as Superman--it doesn't have to be explained as
"magic" (a thing I hate as a plot device).
BC
Julio Laredo
I'm trying to remember, but, it was never something used often. I recall
only once with Wayne Boring, couple of times with Curt Swan. I think it was
used more often in Legion of Super Heroes stories.
Superman hated magic, too. One of my favorite lines is, "One of these days
me and and whoever decided I was going to be vulnerable to magic are going
to have a talk!"
Julio Laredo
"Bradster" <bdhayR...@ATHotmailDOT.com> wrote in message
An argument in the IMDB board about super breath got me to thinking. What
if Superman's powers were all just enhancements of abilities that
Kryptonians had? What if everything was the end product of evolving
beneficial characteristics.
So, I, just from memory, reviewed what has been written and drawn concerning
Krypton. It is an anomoly, highly improbable; a high gravity planet,
possibly the core of a trans-Jupiter sized planet which had its methane
atmosphere boiled away. In Mark Waid's retelling he writes it has 50 times
the gravity of Earth's. Eliot S! Maggins in "Starwinds Howl" (a great and
touching story which should put a lump in any caring person's throat) had
Krypton also huge, calling it a "failed star," and cold on the surface, but
with a lot of internal heat. It might have, though, a thin atmosphere. Rao
is a red sun. And, I never recall seeing trees drawn for Krypton.
So, what adaptations would be beneficial in this environment? Strength,
naturally, since a creature who weighed 200 pounds on Earth would weigh
10,000 on Krypton. Reflexes, since when things fall at an acceleration of
1600 feet per sec/sec they go down fast. Durability and speedier healing,
since this kind of gravity would be wearing on bones, tendons, ligaments and
muscles. Eyes with better light gathering qualities to compensate for the
dim light of the red sun. Ears better able to gather sound because of the
thin air. A respiratory system that would bring in air better than just a
diaphram, like a secondary set of lungs that would pump air into the primary
lungs like a bellows. And, last but hardly least, what if everything with a
nervous system bent gravity a little bit, so they didn't weigh as much as
they should have: instead of weighing 10,000 pounds, that creature would
weigh in at 1,000. That would still be a lot, but, more managable, and
would still be very strong.
Then, whenever a Kryptonian got away from red sun radiation, and then into
the compass of a yellow sun, something happens. Everything becomes more:
more strength, more durability, even faster healing, seeing further up and
down the electromagnetic spectrum, even better hearing, even faster
reflexes, super-breath, and now, flight. The only real anomoly then would
be energy projection from the eyes. Everything else seems to be possible.
BC
muscle mass and their heart shrinks. That is what would happen to a
kryptonian coming here. Also, the gravity would shape the
organism--Kryptonians would be very squat with great thickness of limb to
counter the gravity and not look human like.
Another problem with evolution is that the weaker or inferior tendencies
have to die or be selected out before they reproduce. The strong
characteristics have to prevail and reproduce to pass the traits along. We
have a kryptonian that if he is invulnerable will not perish--so his defects
will pass along if he mates. He (Clark) is also afraid to mate and so he
can't pass along his superior traits to the people of the yellow sun no
matter how superior he is. He is an evolutionary dead end as I see it.
Julio Laredo
I guess I forgot the part that all these enhancements require energy, and
the yellow sun is a catalyst for a Kryptonian to tap into an even greater
source of energy than the electron exchange that is chemically derived
energy, like total conversion. Because of this energy it would maintain
everything.
No they lose
> muscle mass and their heart shrinks. That is what would happen to a
> kryptonian coming here.
They would without the super energy source. Zod, after the second movie, if
he was still alive, would have to exercise and eat constantly to maintain a
fraction of his natural Kryptonian strength. Clark, since he hadn't grown
up on Krypton, would have only human strength without his superness.
Also, the gravity would shape the
> organism--Kryptonians would be very squat with great thickness of limb to
> counter the gravity and not look human like.
>
That is true, even at a mere thousand pounds. But not nearly what they
would be at ten thousand pounds. And this would apply only to their own
being. A pencil that would weigh, at a guess, an ounce on earth would weigh
at least 3 pounds on Krypton. 3 pounds may not sound a lot, but, try doing
your SATs with a weight like that in your hands. So, they would be strong.
> Another problem with evolution is that the weaker or inferior tendencies
> have to die or be selected out before they reproduce. The strong
> characteristics have to prevail and reproduce to pass the traits along.
> We have a kryptonian that if he is invulnerable will not perish--so his
> defects will pass along if he mates. He (Clark) is also afraid to mate
> and so he can't pass along his superior traits to the people of the yellow
> sun no matter how superior he is. He is an evolutionary dead end as I see
> it.
>
>
Couldn't, anyway. The DNA would be so far removed that there would be no
hope of reproduction without a lot of genetic manipulation. I got a fish
tank with gold fish and silver dollars in it. In general characteristics
the fish do resemble each other, but, they will never be able to mate.
BC
I don't get stronger by soaking up on a super energy source--I get fat. If
supe doesn't store energy as fat then he must store it some other way. Or
he doesn't have energy reserves. Maybe he taps the ZPF?
>
> Also, the gravity would shape the
>> organism--Kryptonians would be very squat with great thickness of limb to
>> counter the gravity and not look human like.
>>
>
> That is true, even at a mere thousand pounds. But not nearly what they
> would be at ten thousand pounds. And this would apply only to their own
> being. A pencil that would weigh, at a guess, an ounce on earth would
> weigh at least 3 pounds on Krypton. 3 pounds may not sound a lot, but,
> try doing your SATs with a weight like that in your hands. So, they would
> be strong.
>
>> Another problem with evolution is that the weaker or inferior tendencies
>> have to die or be selected out before they reproduce. The strong
>> characteristics have to prevail and reproduce to pass the traits along.
>> We have a kryptonian that if he is invulnerable will not perish--so his
>> defects will pass along if he mates. He (Clark) is also afraid to mate
>> and so he can't pass along his superior traits to the people of the
>> yellow sun no matter how superior he is. He is an evolutionary dead end
>> as I see it.
>>
>>
>
> Couldn't, anyway. The DNA would be so far removed that there would be no
> hope of reproduction without a lot of genetic manipulation. I got a fish
> tank with gold fish and silver dollars in it. In general characteristics
> the fish do resemble each other, but, they will never be able to mate.
Yeah, but the fish think it would be fun trying.
Julio Laredo
Only if you ingest without using. A Kryptonian's energy requirements to
maintain superness, and not just mainline Kryptonianess, would be quite
high. Fat would only be good to store chemical energy, and since, aside
from a red kryptonite story, Superman's size doesn't seem to change, so he
stores his reserves in some other, unexplained, manner.
>
>>
>> Also, the gravity would shape the
>>> organism--Kryptonians would be very squat with great thickness of limb
>>> to counter the gravity and not look human like.
>>>
>>
>> That is true, even at a mere thousand pounds. But not nearly what they
>> would be at ten thousand pounds. And this would apply only to their own
>> being. A pencil that would weigh, at a guess, an ounce on earth would
>> weigh at least 3 pounds on Krypton. 3 pounds may not sound a lot, but,
>> try doing your SATs with a weight like that in your hands. So, they
>> would be strong.
>>
>>> Another problem with evolution is that the weaker or inferior tendencies
>>> have to die or be selected out before they reproduce. The strong
>>> characteristics have to prevail and reproduce to pass the traits along.
>>> We have a kryptonian that if he is invulnerable will not perish--so his
>>> defects will pass along if he mates. He (Clark) is also afraid to mate
>>> and so he can't pass along his superior traits to the people of the
>>> yellow sun no matter how superior he is. He is an evolutionary dead end
>>> as I see it.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Couldn't, anyway. The DNA would be so far removed that there would be no
>> hope of reproduction without a lot of genetic manipulation. I got a fish
>> tank with gold fish and silver dollars in it. In general characteristics
>> the fish do resemble each other, but, they will never be able to mate.
> Yeah, but the fish think it would be fun trying.
>
Silver dollars can be bullies, but, not when the goldfish, the smallest
being nearly a foot long, is three times their size.
Todd
>We all know that Superman愀 powers seem to defy the laws of physics.
>How about elementary biology though ? Specifically, I扉e always
>wondered how the Kryptonian species, which has evolved in a planet
>thousands (?) of light years away from Earth under completely different
>environmental conditions, may look anatomically and possibly
>physiologically identical to humans ! What is the probability of that
>happening under the laws of evolutionary biology ?
Some years ago, I read a story in a science fiction anthology.
Mankind traveled to the stars, finding all the other planets were
inhabited by human and humanoid life. On many of these planets, there
were also ruins left by a race of giants.
Finally, explorerers found a world where the ruins were more intact
and the giants had left a journal or something telling of how they had
unintentionally transported vermin all over the galaxy before finally
abandoning this galaxy to the vermin. Humans were the vermin.
In a Superman comic, Clark fought the Last Five Hundred. They were
supposedly the last of a race that ruled earth before humanity, but
they caught a fatal disease from their pre-human slaves and died out.
The LFH transfered their minds into a receptacle, waiting until
humanity had reached an advanced technologic age. The LFH all tried
to take over Superman's body, destroying themselves in the process.
I felt that DC comics should have mad the LFH's race space-faring, and
they had taken human slaves to worlds like Krypton and Hawkman's
planet and all the rest before dying out.
There's also the explanation in Star Trek, that a progenitor race
seeded the galaxy with thier DNA before dying out.