What happened to Sharon?
Blair Kennedy
MadiHolmes wrote in message
<19981007233040...@ng-fa2.aol.com>...
>
>I mean I go on a month long vacation, and bam, my favorite writer is like
>splitsville, man. What happened to her voilatile deranged mind?
She was flamed off the internet. It seems a lot of people objected to her
particular brand of Blair torture so she packed up her dollies and went
home. Too bad. She was one of my favourite writers as well.
--Blair Kennedy
MadiHolmes
Mick
Blair Kennedy wrote:
> MadiHolmes wrote in message
> <19981007233040...@ng-fa2.aol.com>...
> >
> >I mean I go on a month long vacation, and bam, my favorite writer is like
> >splitsville, man. What happened to her voilatile deranged mind?
>
> She was flamed off the internet. It seems a lot of people objected to her
> particular brand of Blair torture so she packed up her dollies and went
> home. Too bad. She was one of my favourite writers as well.
>
Not just flames, but *hate* mail.
Really, I don't understand such things. If you don't like her style or her
stories, all you have to do is not read them.
But then again, I don't understand how how someone could be tied to a fence
and set on fire because of their sexual orientation (with the local police
insisting the motive of such an heinous act was robbery, simply because the
young man's wallet was gone).
Sharon's stories might have been hard to read, but RL can be even more
horrific.
Mick C.
P. S. - IMHO Sharon's "Ellipsis" was one of the best death stories ever done
for The Sentinel"
Mick
Mick wrote:
> Blair Kennedy wrote:
>
> > MadiHolmes wrote in message
> > <19981007233040...@ng-fa2.aol.com>...
> > >
> > >I mean I go on a month long vacation, and bam, my favorite writer is like
> > >splitsville, man. What happened to her voilatile deranged mind?
> >
> > She was flamed off the internet. It seems a lot of people objected to her
> > particular brand of Blair torture so she packed up her dollies and went
> > home. Too bad. She was one of my favourite writers as well.
> >
>
> Not just flames, but *hate* mail.
>
> Really, I don't understand such things. If you don't like her style or her
> stories, all you have to do is not read them.
>
> But then again, I don't understand how how someone could be tied to a fence
> and set on fire
Oh good grief! That was NOT was I meant to type. :( I had just been reading
about a local attack - gang violence - where someone had been doused with a
flamable liquid and set on fire, and both incidents were on my mind. The young
man in question was savagely beaten. Matthew Sheppard's attack was horrible
enough without adding that beastial act to it.
My heart goes out to Mr. Sheppard and his family.
Mick C.
StarGem
>
> I mean I go on a month long vacation, and bam, my favorite writer is like
> splitsville, man. What happened to her voilatile deranged mind?
She pulled her stuff off the 'Net for some reason.
I guess nobody gave her much respect. Not to mention that her stuff
*was* volatile and deranged.
The only reason I checked her pile of stories was to see what new
atrocities she would visit apon (spelling?) poor Blair.
And believe me, she could a do enough stuff to make Blair go back to the
therapist a thousand times over.
Her first series of stories I liked, but anything after that was utterly
gross.
Well, that's my opinion about why Sharon pulled her stories of the 'Net.
ek...@arctos.bowdoin.edu
> Not just flames, but *hate* mail.
>
> Really, I don't understand such things. If you don't like her style or her
> stories, all you have to do is not read them.
>
Don't worry, most of us are just as lost as you are. Poor Sharon. Is there
any chance of showing her that we're not all ogres and trolls? I've been
fortunate enough not to have been flamed very often (a good thing considering
my ego's a lot fragiler than I make it out to be :) but I have great sympathy
for those who have. Especially for something like fic--a lot of work goes
into writing, and to be rewarded so negatively for your troubles...All the
worse when it affects those of us who *do* like it, denies us the opportunity
to tell her so and her opportunity to hear it...for me, this obsession is
fun, a way to relax and enjoy and entertain. I left X-files fandom in part
because it could be vicious, mean to people because of random opinions, and
that's not fun as far as I'm concerned; how can you take your pleasure from
destroying someone else's?
Which is why I'm still enjoying TS so much...the show's diverting, and the
chars are amusing to play with, and GM especially is great to watch--but most
of all the people here (that I've encountered) are friendly, fun folk. I wuv
you guys! =) It's sad Sharon ran into different crowd. Any way we make it
up to her?
Pity she left before she found the ng...
XmagicalX
> P. S. - IMHO Sharon's "Ellipsis" was one of the best death stories ever done
> for The Sentinel
>
Argh! okay, I admit to having my own nefarious purpose...Sharon pulled her
stuff before I had a chance to more than glimpse them, and I never got to
this one. Does anyone have a copy of it? I promise if I don't like it my
lips are sealed, no one will ever know...but I have a feeling I might enjoy
it. Any angst fans out there willing or able to help a fellow follower of
angst?
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Blair Kennedy
>Argh! okay, I admit to having my own nefarious purpose...Sharon pulled her
>stuff before I had a chance to more than glimpse them, and I never got to
>this one. Does anyone have a copy of it? I promise if I don't like it my
>lips are sealed, no one will ever know...but I have a feeling I might enjoy
>it. Any angst fans out there willing or able to help a fellow follower of
>angst?
"I have all of Sharon's stories. I made sure to get them before they were
pulled," Blair gloated as she poured another glass of slivovitz and settled
in to read 'Spatial Properties' one more time.
--Blair Kennedy
Sally
>
> Really, I don't understand such things. If you don't like her style or her
> stories, all you have to do is not read them.
>
I agree.
I wrote Sharon an e-mail about a month ago asking her why she was no
longer writing fanfic. She replied that it was more from the lack of
positive feedback than from flames. I'm not sure if I believe that
though, since it doesn't explain why she removed her existing stories.
Her stories were very dark and violent, but they all contained warnings
at the beginning, so noone was being taken by surprise here. I enjoy a
dark, angsty story sometimes; and, believe me, I've read novels that
were much worst than anything Sharon has written.
I wish I had saved her stories, but, unfortunately I didn't. She told
me that she was going to be away for a couple of months, but when she
got back, she might start writing again. Maybe we can talk her into
e-mailing her stories to us.
Sally
wolf...@my-dejanews.com
sese...@worldnet.att.net wrote:
> I wrote Sharon an e-mail about a month ago asking her why she was no
> longer writing fanfic. She replied that it was more from the lack of
> positive feedback than from flames. I'm not sure if I believe that
> though, since it doesn't explain why she removed her existing stories.
Not meaning to be nasty about this--I consider Sharon an excellent writer,
though her stories were too twisted for me to continue reading--but there is
a segment of fanfic writers out there who regularly threaten to stop writing,
or even to do themselves injury, if they receive the slightest negative
comment or just don't receive the amount of praise they think their writing
deserves. What happens is, these writers complain and threaten in some public
way, they immediately receive dozens of pleas not to stop and lots of
sympathy over the bad treatment they have endured, and they withdraw the
threat. After a while, people get tired of seeing the same threats and they
stop responding. The writers then either start behaving like adults, or more
often, take their toys and go home. To the best of my knowledge, Sharon has
chosen to do the latter. If I'm wrong, and she really did take her stories
down because of hate mail, then I apologize for misjudging her in this
instance. But knowing what I do of her behavior in the past, I am inclined
to think my interpretation is correct. She's still a damn good writer,
though. And she'd be even better if she'd stop giving Blair those
impossible-to-survive bodily and/or psychological injuries. Just MHO, of
course.
Wolfguide
Dawn
(except when she gave Blair permanent injuries that significantly altered his
character). I did, however, have to take her in doses :-) Her stories were
intense, and always held my interest, but I like Blair too much to see him
permanently changed for the worse. But, that's my choice - to read or not to read
<grin> I was saddened to see her go, though, because now I can't read the
remaining stories at my leisure when I'm feeling particularly morbid :-)
On the note of praise to ff writers, I can't imagine people sending hate mail b/c
they don't like something. I mean, come on, these are done for free - with
substantial expenditure of time and effort. If you don't like the story, just
don't say anything. :-)
However, if you do like, WRITE!!! <big grin> Fan fiction writers are a curious
bunch, and I myself, a few months ago, never would have thought I'd be into fan
fiction. I steered clear of it intentionally. But this darn Sentinel world drew
me in :-) Anyway, back to the point. FF writers spend all this time and energy
doing what is basically a completely economically inefficient activity. They get
no pay for it, and usually have to put off RL stuff to finish :-) The only
compensation received is praise. So, I think the equation is simple enough - you
want to see more fanfiction, you've gotta pay the dues, and that means e-mailing
the author to let him or her know that you liked the story. It took the author
hours to write, it takes you maybe a minute to e-mail her/him and say "good job!"
I have to chastise myself here b/c, for the longest time, I would just read the
stories and never even think to e-mail the author... no matter how much pleasure
I derived from the story. Even now I occasionally still do that... but I do make
an effort to at least drop a line when I finish a story... and I make a point to
give sincere comments, b/c, as I know first-hand, those are the most valuable
kind :-)
Okay, I'm stepping down from the podium now! <grin>
-Dawn-
wolf...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
--
-Dawn-
The Chako Rescue Assoc. for the American Pit Bull Terrier
http://home.att.net/~DawnCapp
Visit our site for lots of great dog books!
Blair Kennedy
wolf...@my-dejanews.com wrote in message
>
> there is a segment of fanfic writers out there who regularly threaten to
stop writing,
>or even to do themselves injury, if they receive the slightest negative
>comment or just don't receive the amount of praise they think their writing
>deserves. What happens is, these writers complain and threaten in some
public
>way, they immediately receive dozens of pleas not to stop and lots of
>sympathy over the bad treatment they have endured, and they withdraw the
>threat. After a while, people get tired of seeing the same threats and
they
>stop responding. The writers then either start behaving like adults, or
more
>often, take their toys and go home.
I've seen this syndrome, most recently on Senfic during that "Beach"
debacle. I never understood this. Sure, I like it when someone writes to me
just to say "good story" or offers some constructive criticism, but I'm not
going to get the vapours if someone writes and says the story sucked.
I had one gal write to me saying she didn't normally send only negative
feedback, but she'd make an exception for me. She thought I had Blair acting
out of character. I thought this was funny coming from a slash perspective
because how much more out of character can you get than slash? But, I didn't
pack up toys and head home. I turned that particular story into a series. So
there. = p
I guess that's the difference between me and other writers. I do it for fun.
As soon as my next obsession takes over, I'm liable to give TS the boot
without a second thought. Yeah, right. = )
--Blair "My karma just ran over your dogma"Kennedy
maha...@ix.netcom.com
>...If I'm wrong, and she really did take her stories
> down because of hate mail, then I apologize for misjudging her in this
> instance.
After being unable to find Sharon's stories when coming back online
after an extensive (read lengthy) computer repair process, I asked
around and a list sib on Senad responded that the mail was getting so
bad that *she* had been going though the feedback mail for Sharon.
The term "hate mail" was not used lightly. :(
Mick C.
Caitlin Mackay Shaw
often this happens? i mean, and please don't take this the wrong
way, but is it a gen thing? because there was a big discussion
on senad a while back where all the slashwriters were complaining
that the feedback was too *nice*. (the lady of shalott even
started up a new list for the purpose of strong critiquing of fic
-- http://www.netspace.org/~shalott/sencrit/ , if anyone is
interested.) ditto the xslash list, althoug i've heard that atxc
can get rough.
i'm just curious (i'm *not* trying to start another slash/gen
war!) why slash seems to inspire a "don't like it? don't read it"
attitude and why anything else could be different... when people
write nasty feedback, what do they *say*?
--cmshaw
now, of course, all the slashers who've gotten nasty letters are
going to prove my sweeping generalizations wrong...
EC Therapy
>
>
>
> Not meaning to be nasty about this--I consider Sharon an excellent writer,
> a segment of fanfic writers out there who regularly threaten to stop writing,
> or even to do themselves injury, if they receive the slightest negative
> comment or just don't receive the amount of praise they think their writing
> deserves.
I think that would be a very tiny portion of the writing population.
Most of us *want* constructive criticism. But no one wants hate mail.
Personally, I would rather get one piece of mail saying "You screwed up
on this part!! You should have done it this way." than two pieces that
said "This was okay. I liked it." Don't get me wrong, I adore
positive feedback <hint hint> but anytime I get a chance to improve my
writing just thrills me.
Again, I think the percentage of writers who fall into the category you
have described is roughly equal to the number who want to see Taggert in
a gold lame' thong (or Dennis Franz's backside).
What happens is, these writers complain and threaten in some public
> way, they immediately receive dozens of pleas not to stop and lots of
> sympathy over the bad treatment they have endured, and they withdraw the
> threat.
Funny, I don't remember ever seeing this happen.
After a while, people get tired of seeing the same threats and they
> stop responding. The writers then either start behaving like adults, or more
> often, take their toys and go home. To the best of my knowledge, Sharon has
> chosen to do the latter.
Um, do you have a grudge against the woman or what?
If I'm wrong, and she really did take her stories
> down because of hate mail, then I apologize for misjudging her in this
> instance. But knowing what I do of her behavior in the past, I am inclined
> to think my interpretation is correct.
And how well do you know her? Spemd alot of time over coffee chatting
with the lady, do you? Truth is, you can't honestly say you know anyone
on the net. Things written down in black and white, without the visual
cues one is used to in conversation, tend to be taken the wrong way.
Try to give people the benefit of the doubt.
She's still a damn good writer,
> though. And she'd be even better if she'd stop giving Blair those
> impossible-to-survive bodily and/or psychological injuries. Just MHO, of
> course.
Personally, I think it makes for great drama. If we changed the name of
the characters and set it in a slightly different place, you could
probably use one of her stories to make a very dramatic Made-for-TV
Movie... and if nothing life threatening or awful ever happened to the
guys, the series would be pretty dull.
Blair is a pretty popular character because he has been given mostly
positive personality traits. Jim is a bit less likable because he was
given more flaws. This makes the reader more sympathetic when the bad
things happen to Blair-- better drama, if you will.
Why am I sticking my nose into this business? Mostly because I hate to
see people being slammed when they aren't around to defend themselves.
If Sharon were posting to the newsgroup, I probably wouldn't have said a
word. Her stories weren't something I would want to read everyday but no
one was making either. There are one or two authors who still have
stories on the net that write such dark plots that I feel the same about
them. But, again, no one is forcing me to click on those sites.
I hope that Sharon returns to us some day. But I understand if she
decides that she doesn't want to do that.
Angie T.
(who hopes that she even makes sense after a nearly sleepless night
followed by a day subbing in a Kindergarten class)
Blair Kennedy
EC Therapy wrote in message <3623EA...@sunlink.net>...
>Again, I think the percentage of writers who fall into the category you
>have described is roughly equal to the number who want to see Taggert in
>a gold lame' thong (or Dennis Franz's backside).
"You didn't have to take me there," Blair moaned as she began retching in
the nearest rubbish bin.
> What happens is, these writers complain and threaten in some public
>> way, they immediately receive dozens of pleas not to stop and lots of
>> sympathy over the bad treatment they have endured, and they withdraw the
>> threat.
>
>Funny, I don't remember ever seeing this happen.
It happened on Senfic with "Beach." Kitty and Martha weren't getting enough
feedback for their smarm epic so they decided not to post it to the list
anymore. This caused a slew of letters about feedback and how immature Kitty
and Martha were and blah, blah, blah... It was really quite silly. They had
said in the last posting of "Beach" if they didn't get any feedback they
weren't going to continue posting. They got no feedback and discontinued
posting. I don't beleive this was to garner attention for themselves or beg
for pleas of "I'm sorry" from those who done them wrong. In fact, Kitty said
they quit posting it to the list because they didn't want to feel like
spammers by posting a story no one wanted to read anymore. They still write
it. It's on their page for those who want to continue reading it.
>
>
>Personally, I think it makes for great drama. If we changed the name of
>the characters and set it in a slightly different place, you could
>probably use one of her stories to make a very dramatic Made-for-TV
>Movie... and if nothing life threatening or awful ever happened to the
>guys, the series would be pretty dull.
Now ain't that the truth.
>
>>
>Why am I sticking my nose into this business? Mostly because I hate to
>see people being slammed when they aren't around to defend themselves.
>If Sharon were posting to the newsgroup, I probably wouldn't have said a
>word. Her stories weren't something I would want to read everyday but no
>one was making either. There are one or two authors who still have
>stories on the net that write such dark plots that I feel the same about
>them. But, again, no one is forcing me to click on those sites.
>
>I hope that Sharon returns to us some day. But I understand if she
>decides that she doesn't want to do that.
I don't think we've seen the last of Sharon. She was writing a novel. We may
yet revel in her dark world once more.
--Blair Kennedy
Blair Kennedy
Caitlin Mackay Shaw wrote in message <7006ds$ka5$1...@lendl.cc.emory.edu>...
>regarding negative feedback and hate mail -- can i just ask how
>often this happens? i mean, and please don't take this the wrong
>way, but is it a gen thing? >
I don't know if it's a gen thing or not because the only gen list I'm on is
Senfic and people there have always been way supportive, much like on SFX.
However, I understand there is a bit of ire between other gen lists and the
slashers. I don't really understand that. I mean, we all like the same show,
just different facets.
>i'm just curious (i'm *not* trying to start another slash/gen
>war!) why slash seems to inspire a "don't like it? don't read it"
>attitude and why anything else could be different... when people
>write nasty feedback, what do they *say*?
Personally, knock wood, I have not been subjected to any hate mail. I've
received letters from people who have said they were writing because
something I had done so disturbed their friends they could not write me
about it themselves. Those kinds of letters I immediately discount because I
figure if you are so emotionally crippled something *I* do would send you
over the edge, then you need some serious help.
Personally, I would never send hate mail or flames. I mean, what's the
point? I think maybe it's kind of power trip. You can say all kinds of
horrible things to people on the net because chances are you are never going
to meet them face to face. It's the power( and the cowardice) of anonymity.
>now, of course, all the slashers who've gotten nasty letters are
>going to prove my sweeping generalizations wrong...
I've gotten a letters from people who didn't want me to write "Cascade
Place." Of course, I've gotten letters from people who were patiently
waiting for the next episode. Oh well, there's just no pleasing everyone.
That's why I always think of myself first. ; )
--Blair Kennedy
EC Therapy
>
>(okay, and I admit to a little devil
> inside me wondering, "if you dropped out of the fic circle, would anybody
> miss you?" I'll face up to it...I'm an ego-hound ;)
Yes! Yes!... a thousand times YES!! Stick around, please! I promise to
keep writing feedback, just please don't go!
Angie T.
Shelley Knepley
author and the story, I try to contact them and say so. If I have
constructive criticism I phrase it as such. Personally, I would never flame
an author. Anyone, who has the courage to post a piece of their soul to the
world for consumption does not need or deserve such treatment. All of you
authors out there have far more courage than I, and I thank you for the
chance to read some truly awesome writing.
JMHO
Shelley
Caitlin Mackay Shaw wrote in message <7006ds$ka5$1...@lendl.cc.emory.edu>...
>regarding negative feedback and hate mail -- can i just ask how
>often this happens? i mean, and please don't take this the wrong
>way, but is it a gen thing? because there was a big discussion
>on senad a while back where all the slashwriters were complaining
>that the feedback was too *nice*. (the lady of shalott even
>started up a new list for the purpose of strong critiquing of fic
>-- http://www.netspace.org/~shalott/sencrit/ , if anyone is
>interested.) ditto the xslash list, althoug i've heard that atxc
>can get rough.
>
>i'm just curious (i'm *not* trying to start another slash/gen
>war!) why slash seems to inspire a "don't like it? don't read it"
>attitude and why anything else could be different... when people
>write nasty feedback, what do they *say*?
>
>--cmshaw
ek...@arctos.bowdoin.edu
every count....
I can understand ff writers who stop writing because the reader response
dies. Authors in the "real world" write for a living, or at least make a
little side money (or try to) Definitely it's partly for the pleasure of it;
why does any artist produce work, after all, if not for that? But what is
written is meant to be read--it increases my pleasure in what I've done that
much more to know that someone else enjoyed it too, that I'd made that
contact. Face it, we all have at least a little ego; it's nice to be
acknowledged. I start most of my fics because I have an idea that won't
leave me alone, but especially with these long multi-parters I wouldn't ever
finish them if I didn't have the encouragement of knowing someone out there
wanted more!
I can also understand how this can be twisted, how getting hate mail would
stop me from writing (or at least from sharing). I've never really been
flamed myself (ah! hope I don't start something here ;) but if I write a
story that doesn't get much response, I'm not as likely to start the sequel I
might have planned or write another story like it.
I admit to having less patience with people who try to incite readers by
threatening to pull their stuff or stop writing altogether, etc. I can
understand the drive for reader response (okay, and I admit to a little devil
inside me wondering, "if you dropped out of the fic circle, would anybody
miss you?" I'll face up to it...I'm an ego-hound ;) but I haven't actually
done it...) but trying to force it is a bit childish. Although I don't know
the story, I'm tempted to think it was something different in Sharon's case,
because she didn't make a fuss over it, and she pulled her fic entirely
without leaving a way to contact her to get it back. That indicates she was
either completely tired with the show and wanted to abandon it
altogether--which I can see, though I haven't pulled my own TXF stuff--or
more likely that she was burned pretty bad and doesn't want to continue being
hurt for something she did out of love of a show's chars and for enjoyment.
In which case I have only sympathy for her (and for all us reader denied her
stories!)
My own private confession: I never e'd a single ff writer until I wrote
something myself and realized how great it really was to hear somebody liked
it! now I make it a point to drop a quick note whenever I like
something...ff's a moneyless economy; the only goods are fic and the only
payment's the response; it's up to us to keep it in circulation! =)
XmagicalX, trying to incite readers? Never..! ;)
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
ek...@arctos.bowdoin.edu
> wolf...@my-dejanews.com wrote (w/ the double > >) :
> > What happens is, these writers complain and threaten in some public
> > way, they immediately receive dozens of pleas not to stop and lots of
> > sympathy over the bad treatment they have endured, and they withdraw the
> > threat.
>
> Funny, I don't remember ever seeing this happen.
>
In defense of wg, BlairK's already mentioned the recent Beach dilemma, and I
know of a couple of other similar, if less extreme incidents...the ng's
avoided them, but it happens on senfic now and then. Can't speak for the
slashlists; they actually sound friendlier (not that Senfic isn't friendly!
anyhow, compared to atxc the worse senflame isn't even a worth a match, let
alone a cigarette lighter...)
> Truth is, you can't honestly say you know anyone
> on the net. Things written down in black and white, without the visual
> cues one is used to in conversation, tend to be taken the wrong way.
> Try to give people the benefit of the doubt.
>
[doesn't deal with the main theme o' this, but I thought it a good statement;
it's one I try to surf by, happy to see it echoed! :) ]
> > She's still a damn good writer,
> > though. And she'd be even better if she'd stop giving Blair those
> > impossible-to-survive bodily and/or psychological injuries. Just MHO, of
> > course.
>
> Personally, I think it makes for great drama. If we changed the name of
> the characters and set it in a slightly different place, you could
> probably use one of her stories to make a very dramatic Made-for-TV
> Movie... and if nothing life threatening or awful ever happened to the
> guys, the series would be pretty dull.
>
a dramatic made-for-TV movie is a *good* thing? sorry, sorry! I think I've
glimpsed too many disease-of-the-week things at my grandmother's house, plus
though I go easy on television I'm an irritatingly intense
movie-reviewer...I'm sure there are good MfTV things, it's just so many of
'em are pointless, exploitive melodrama... </RANT> okay, off the soapbox now
;)
> Blair is a pretty popular character because he has been given mostly
> positive personality traits. Jim is a bit less likable because he was
> given more flaws. This makes the reader more sympathetic when the bad
> things happen to Blair-- better drama, if you will.
>
Verra true, though given this I find it intriguing how many writers make it a
point to give Blair flaws, often ones I myself don't perceive in him.
> Why am I sticking my nose into this business? Mostly because I hate to
> see people being slammed when they aren't around to defend themselves.
> If Sharon were posting to the newsgroup, I probably wouldn't have said a
> word. Her stories weren't something I would want to read everyday but no
> one was making either. There are one or two authors who still have
> stories on the net that write such dark plots that I feel the same about
> them. But, again, no one is forcing me to click on those sites.
>
In wolfguide's defense I wouldn't term her post as "slamming". I disagree
with her take on the issue; that Sharon actually removed her stories entirely
indicates to me at least that more was going on than simply a writer sulking
over lack of feedback. But I'm also willing to concede that I don't know
anything 'bout Sharon or how she might have behaved previously on lists or
elsewhere.
At any rate, however, though wg admitted to not caring for Sharon's style, she
still said she was "a damn good writer". Far from a slam, in the spirit of
constructive criticism I would myself take this as a very high compliment
indeed, that though it may not be to everyone's taste it's well-written
nonetheless. And personally I think her suggestion is on target--I too
found what little I read of Sharon's stories to be on the extreme side,
pushing past the grounds of believability.
But hey, it's fic, and at least she added some variety to sen drama!
> I hope that Sharon returns to us some day. But I understand if she
> decides that she doesn't want to do that.
>
I second the motion on both counts :)
> Angie T.
> (who hopes that she even makes sense after a nearly sleepless night
> followed by a day subbing in a Kindergarten class)
>
ack, my sympathies! given the circumstances you're amazingly coherent!
as opposed to XmagicalX, who is running on midterm stress and shouldn't be
here at all, let alone popping in constantly to spew her special brand of
nonsense...
Sally
>
>
> > Blair is a pretty popular character because he has been given mostly
> > positive personality traits. Jim is a bit less likable because he was
> > given more flaws. This makes the reader more sympathetic when the bad
> > things happen to Blair-- better drama, if you will.
> >
> Verra true, though given this I find it intriguing how many writers make it a
> point to give Blair flaws, often ones I myself don't perceive in him.
I don't think it's because Jim has more flaws. I think it's because Jim
is perceived as being the emotionally stronger of the two. At least on
the outside. His life as a Ranger and a detective has hardened him to
where he would not reacted as emotionally to trauma and the bad things
they encounter as Blair would, so having Blair doing the suffering
provides the story with more angst. I think that's why many fanfic
writer make Blair behave much younger that he really is. I makes him
appear more innocent and vulnerable, so when evil things happen to him,
they have a greater emotional impact. And, of course, it makes for good
smarm. JMHO.
>
> At any rate, however, though wg admitted to not caring for Sharon's style, she
> still said she was "a damn good writer". Far from a slam, in the spirit of
> constructive criticism I would myself take this as a very high compliment
> indeed, that though it may not be to everyone's taste it's well-written
> nonetheless. And personally I think her suggestion is on target--I too
> found what little I read of Sharon's stories to be on the extreme side,
> pushing past the grounds of believability.
>
That's true, but I think most of the fanfic out there does the same
thing. We have TS in outer space, TS in the wild west, TS in the
medieval period, Jim and Blair as vampires, Jim and Blair with psychic
powers, Jim and Blair as lovers. I'm sure there are others that I can't
recall at the moment. Even the smarm, as much as I love it, tends to
stretch the boundaries of believability at times. Of course, being a
big science fiction and horror fan, extreme and unbelievable is just my
cup of tea <g>.
Sally
ek...@arctos.bowdoin.edu
> ek...@arctos.bowdoin.edu wrote:
> >
> >(okay, and I admit to a little devil
> > inside me wondering, "if you dropped out of the fic circle, would anybody
> > miss you?" I'll face up to it...I'm an ego-hound ;)
>
> keep writing feedback, just please don't go!
>
> Angie T.
>
XmagX, who desperately needed a pick-me-up...crawling back to the psych now...
ek...@arctos.bowdoin.edu
> I don't think it's because Jim has more flaws. I think it's because Jim
> is perceived as being the emotionally stronger of the two. At least on
> the outside. His life as a Ranger and a detective has hardened him to
> where he would not reacted as emotionally to trauma and the bad things
> they encounter as Blair would, so having Blair doing the suffering
> provides the story with more angst. I think that's why many fanfic
> writer make Blair behave much younger that he really is. I makes him
> appear more innocent and vulnerable, so when evil things happen to him,
> they have a greater emotional impact. And, of course, it makes for good
> smarm. JMHO.
>
The other reason folks are more inclined to go after Blair (at least how my
sister tells it) is because Blair is more emotional--if he's worried about Jim
or whatever he's more likely to show it (at least that's how he's perceived)
While as Jim is more likely to show their friendship when he's pushed into it,
i.e. when Blair's on his deathbed sort of thing...
There's also something about the older, (either actually or just in terms of
relation, experience, ability, etc...) worrying about the younger that's
sweeter, though I have yet to understand the exact mechanics of it. All I
know is sis keeps insisting that I hurt Blair, and shoot Guss, and now sis
herself is tormenting RayK, all in the interests of getting a reaction out of
the stiff-upper-lip partner...
> > I too
> > found what little I read of Sharon's stories to be on the extreme side,
> > pushing past the grounds of believability.
> >
> That's true, but I think most of the fanfic out there does the same
> thing. We have TS in outer space, TS in the wild west, TS in the
> medieval period, Jim and Blair as vampires, Jim and Blair with psychic
> powers, Jim and Blair as lovers. I'm sure there are others that I can't
> recall at the moment. Even the smarm, as much as I love it, tends to
> stretch the boundaries of believability at times. Of course, being a
> big science fiction and horror fan, extreme and unbelievable is just my
> cup of tea <g>.
>
I'm right with you in that! ;)
Though that might be part of it...I'm a scifi/fantasy fan bigtime (one reason
I started watching TS was a clip in a commercial of the panther leaping into
Jim--UPN gets it right once in a looooooooong while...) but despite this I
don't often read AUs (and I never intend to write them, it's just that
everything always seems to deviate from the norm...)(actually I might start
reading them, YMcCool's Upgrade series just loox so interesting, in a sort of
"ratz, why didn't I think of that?!" kinda way)
When reading Sharon my believability problem wasn't in what was happening;
horrific as it was, I concede that in this sadly screwed-up world practically
anything can happen and more often than not does--it was that Blair could
survive it at all, even if generally he was broken by it. (And the odds
against so much happening to one individual, but if you read ff at all you've
gotta make that mental leap anyway ;) did make for awesome angst, though...
and I agree, quite a lot of smarm pushes way past the bounds of "realism" as
well!
XmagicalX (who has been known to perhaps shove gently over the boundary
herself...a couple of times...)
maha...@ix.netcom.com
>
> ek...@arctos.bowdoin.edu wrote:
> > At any rate, however, though wg admitted to not caring for Sharon's style, she
> > still said she was "a damn good writer". Far from a slam, in the spirit of
> > constructive criticism I would myself take this as a very high compliment
> > indeed, that though it may not be to everyone's taste it's well-written
> > nonetheless. And personally I think her suggestion is on target--I too
> > found what little I read of Sharon's stories to be on the extreme side,
> > pushing past the grounds of believability.
> >
> That's true, but I think most of the fanfic out there does the same
> thing.
I probably should let this go, but always I feel I have to respond when
the believablity of Sharon's stories is used to illustrate a point.
Yes, they are extreme, but reality based. I didn't find that her
stories stretched the bounds of believability one bit. They illustrated
a part of human existence that a lot of people don't see or turn away
from, or if they do see it, don't realize how horribly commonplace these
incidents are in some environments.
Some people, like those in law enforcement, medicine, the legal and
penal systems and, sadly, our schools see the things Sharon wrote about.
See them with depressing regularity. I work for a large urban school
system and know first hand the horrific things people do, and allow
others to, to their children. :\
Take this for instance; a female teacher seduces a boy in his early
teens, supplying him with the material things his impoverished family
can't afford. The relationship goes on for *years*, then the teacher
gets him a job at the school when he graduates seeking to continue the
relationship. The young man (18 now) by this time detests her and won't
let her touch him. But he doesn't want the money and gifts to stop, so
he gives over his 13yr old brother to the woman. The boy's mother
finally figures out just how this teacher is *helping* her sons, but the
older boy, by now a street savvy young man, convinces his mother that
the woman owes them. They end up blackmailing the teacher (with video
tapes the older son made of the young brother and teacher), who
mortgaged her home three times to keep up with the demands, and she
winds up being forced to live in her own attic as the older boy takes
over her house and car for his own use. The neighbors, seeing the older
boy driving the car almost exclusively, finally report suspicions to the
police.
Everyone went to jail on this one, with the young boy being place in the
foster care system.
The sad part was the boy weeping at the loss of the teacher. See, he'd
turned to her for comfort. He was terrified of his brother, his mother
had failed him and the teacher was the one who gave him love and
comfort. In their fear, and shame and guilt they only had each other to
share the burden of the secret with.
Farfetched? Yes. Unbelievable? Yes. But, sadly, very true.
To me, Sharon's stories were a glimpse into the dark corners of the real
world, which is for some a real horror story with no happy ending in
sight. The stories were violent, depressing and unfailingly horrifying,
and maybe beyond personal experience but please don't say they were
beyond believability.
Mick C.
zul...@my-dejanews.com
>> Blair is a pretty popular character because he has
>> been given mostly positive personality traits. Jim
>> is a bit less likable because he was given more
>> flaws. This makes the reader more sympathetic when
>> the bad things happen to Blair-- better drama, if
>> you will.
and ek...@arctos.bowdoin.edu replied:
> Verra true, though given this I find it intriguing
> how many writers make it a point to give Blair flaws,
> often ones I myself don't perceive in him.
Actually, I'm one of the rare fans who likes Jim better
than Blair. It's similar to the reason why I like cats
better than dogs (and given their respective animal
guides, I find that very appropriate). (If you're really
interested, ask, and I'll elaborate.) Blair *does* have
flaws. He's hyper and overeager and lies a lot. He can
get so caught up in theory that he loses track of
reality. He whines. It's not that I don't find Blair a
sympathetic character -- I'm just pointing out that he
does so have flaws. And I think that is a good thing,
because perfect people are boring.
I think the fact that people like to hurt Blair has as
much to do with genre convention as anything else. As
the sidekick, he's simply the "designated victim". He's
a lead character, so people care about him, but he's not
the hero, whose job it is to save the day with his
heroness.
There's also a certain amount of logic to enemies
targeting Blair. I mean, think of Blair, Jim, and Simon
-- if you were a villain, and saw two large men carrying
guns who look like they've been militarily trained, and
one small slight guy who looks like an academic, who
would you feel safest picking a fight with? Remember,
villains are a cowardly and superstitious lot (10 points
to anyone who catches the reference).
-S
S A Rudy http://www.eclipse.net/~srudy
+----------------------------------------------------------+
|"I myself have never been able to find out precisely what |
| feminism is; I only know that people call me a feminist |
| whenever I express sentiments that differentiate me from |
| a doormat or a prostitute." -- Rebecca West, 1913 |
+----------------------------------------------------------+
Blair Kennedy
zul...@my-dejanews.com wrote in message
>Remember, villains are a cowardly and superstitious lot (10 points
>to anyone who catches the reference).
>
--Blair "Just Call Me Batgirl"Kennedy
EC Therapy
>
> Actually, I'm one of the rare fans who likes Jim better
> than Blair. It's similar to the reason why I like cats
> better than dogs (and given their respective animal
> guides, I find that very appropriate). (If you're really
> interested, ask, and I'll elaborate.)
I think I understand this. I actually relate to Jim alot better (and I
am a cat person... your theory seems to work).
Blair *does* have
> flaws. He's hyper and overeager and lies a lot.
Okay, the lying thing I can understand, he does have to skirt around the
truth alot. But the hyperactivity is something I just don't see. We
often see him sitting quietly, studying, meditating or just observing
the people around him. I really don't think I have ever seen him
*bounce* the way writers often depict him doing non-stop. Sure, he gets
pretty expressive when he is excited, but its not a perpetual state.
> He can
> get so caught up in theory that he loses track of
> reality.
I disagree here. I think he just has a wider perspective than most
people.
He whines.
Again, I disagree. I have yet to see the famous puppy dog eyes. He
uses words to persuade people and if necessary he uses the words to
wear the other person down. But I can't say he whines. (Can you give
me an ep based example so I can see what you mean?)
>It's not that I don't find Blair a
> sympathetic character -- I'm just pointing out that he
> does so have flaws. And I think that is a good thing,
> because perfect people are boring.
>
I must be pretty interesting then... <<grin>> You are right here.
> I think the fact that people like to hurt Blair has as
> much to do with genre convention as anything else. As
> the sidekick, he's simply the "designated victim". He's
> a lead character, so people care about him, but he's not
> the hero, whose job it is to save the day with his
> heroness.
Thats true. It's also very cliche'. I like to read stories that have
Blair pulling Jim's (nice wonderful) butt out of the fire, just for a
change of pace. It's one reason I enjoyed The Girl Next Door. He
escaped how many times?? Not his fault he kept getting recaptured.
<<grin>>
>
> There's also a certain amount of logic to enemies
> targeting Blair. I mean, think of Blair, Jim, and Simon
> -- if you were a villain, and saw two large men carrying
> guns who look like they've been militarily trained, and
> one small slight guy who looks like an academic, who
> would you feel safest picking a fight with? Remember,
> villains are a cowardly and superstitious lot (10 points
> to anyone who catches the reference).
Oh, sure... hit me with an obscure reference NOW!! <<slaps forehead
repeatedly>> I *know* this one, I just can't come up with it now. Blame
it on two sick kids and no sleep for the past few nights.
All that said, I meant it when I said I relate to Jim better. I
actually have alot in common with the character (no, not THAT) and so
many of his reactions are spot-on, IMHO.
What? you ask? I was in the military, have been estranged from my
father for many years, tend not to show emotions, etc etc... I don't
look good in Kevlar though.
Blair, I think, would drive me insane to have as a roommate. Fun to be
around in small doses but slow death in the long haul.
Angie T.
Blair Kennedy
Sally wrote in message <362444...@worldnet.att.net>...
>That's true, but I think most of the fanfic out there does the same
>thing. We have TS in outer space, TS in the wild west, TS in the
>medieval period, Jim and Blair as vampires, Jim and Blair with psychic
>powers, Jim and Blair as lovers. I'm sure there are others that I can't
>recall at the moment. Even the smarm, as much as I love it, tends to
>stretch the boundaries of believability at times. Of course, being a
>big science fiction and horror fan, extreme and unbelievable is just my
>cup of tea <g>.
As one who sends Jim, Blair and the gang to the far reaches of the universe,
I have to say I have no problem stretching the bounds of reality. If I did,
I wouldn't read smarm or slash or AUs or crossovers. In that event, I would
be missing out on a lot of great stories. No Yvonne, no TAE, no Legion no
Lois Balzer.
However, as much fun as all those are, they still border on the unreal. For
a heavy shot of gritty realism, you couldn't top Sharon. Perhaps that is why
some misguided souls felt the need to hate her. I think one of the big draws
of fanfic, much like the TV shows it is written about, is need to escape the
ugliness, the bitterness and the disappointment of the work-a-day world. You
just couldn't do this with Sharon. In her work, as in life, Jim couldn't
always save the day. I guess some people just couldn't handle that and
wanted to make her suffer for their disappointment.
How much simpler life would be if we had a Jim to protect us from its
horrors. Sadly, as evidenced by the slaying of Matthew Shepard, too often we
don't.
The only consolation here is Sharon is still alive and may yet write again.
--Blair Kennedy, who still has her rose coloured glasses even though they
are a bit smudged.
ZAguilera
>>
>> Actually, I'm one of the rare fans who likes Jim better
>> than Blair. It's similar to the reason why I like cats
>> better than dogs (and given their respective animal
>> guides, I find that very appropriate). (If you're really
>> interested, ask, and I'll elaborate.)
Then Angie T said:
>I think I understand this. I actually relate to Jim alot better (and I
>am a cat person... your theory seems to >work)
Not quite. I'm a Jim person, major Burgi-babe and I can't stand cats (no
offense to cat people).
>> He can
>> get so caught up in theory that he loses track of
>> reality.
>
>I disagree here. I think he just has a wider perspective than most
>people.
>
Yeah but sometimes in those wider perspectives he forgets there are real people
involved. People with feelings, emotions, fears. He did it with Jim at their
first meeting, and couple other times. I realize that it's just enthusasim
and/or coping mechanisms. But sometimes he really should think before
speaking.
>He whines.
>Again, I disagree. I have yet to see the famous puppy dog eyes. He
>uses words to persuade people and if necessary he uses the words to
>wear the other person down. But I can't say he whines. (Can you give
>me an ep based example so I can see what >you mean?)
Try "The Debt", you know the one where he moves in with Jim. Major puppy dog
eyes going there. No real whining, but major pleading going on.
Zenia
ZAguilera
>
>> I don't think it's because Jim has more flaws. I think it's because Jim
>> is perceived as being the emotionally stronger of the two. At least on
>> the outside. His life as a Ranger and a detective has hardened him to
>> where he would not reacted as emotionally to trauma and the bad things
>> they encounter as Blair would, so having Blair doing the suffering
>> provides the story with more angst. I think that's why many fanfic
>> writer make Blair behave much younger that he really is. I makes him
>> appear more innocent and vulnerable, so when evil things happen to him,
>> they have a greater emotional impact. And, of course, it makes for good
>> smarm. JMHO.
>>
XmagX then said:
>The other reason folks are more inclined to go after Blair (at least how my
>sister tells it) is because Blair is more emotional--if he's worried about
>Jim
>or whatever he's more likely to show it (at least that's how he's perceived)
>While as Jim is more likely to show their friendship when he's pushed into
>it,
>i.e. when Blair's on his deathbed sort of thing...
But do people really think that Jim is more emotionally stronger than Blair. I
mean from what I've perceived I would think that the opposite is true. Blair
seems more emotionally solid and together than Jim. Just because he freaks out
at a dead body doesn't make him emotionally stronger. I love Jim, love his
character, and one of those reasons is cuz he's all screwed up. He's had all
these tramatic experiences in his life that are boiling inside of him, they
make him vulnerable. And despite what he says, I find that he takes all of his
cases very seriously. And I also find that he is more prone to emotional
outbursts, so much more than Blair. Think about it, how many people were
shocked at Blair outbursts in "Sweet Science". If it had been Jim would we
have been that shocked.
And as for the whole friendship thing, well I know a lot of guys like Jim, you
know on that macho trip. Anyway, none of them go up to their friends and
actually say, "I love you man, you're my best friend. I need you in my life."
It's just not a guy thing to do.
Well this is, of course, JMHO
Zenia
Dawn
> >
> >> I don't think it's because Jim has more flaws. I think it's because Jim
> >> is perceived as being the emotionally stronger of the two.
>
> >The other reason folks are more inclined to go after Blair (at least how my
>
> But do people really think that Jim is more emotionally stronger than Blair.
> Think about it, how many people were
> shocked at Blair outbursts in "Sweet Science". If it had been Jim would we
> have been that shocked.
> Zenia
I don't think either one is more emotional. I think they're emotionally different.
Jim has more of a temper. He gets angry easier, though he doesn't always show it
blatantly on the outside. Blair doesn't get angry very easily, but he does get
excited easily. He smiles and laughs easily, and it doesn't take a whole lot to
make him happy. So, in that respect, they are different. Jim tends to lean toward
the "darker" emotions whereas Blair tends to lean toward the "lighter" ones... I'm
not saying Jim doesn't joke around or smile, just that he's not as affectionate or
"happy-go-lucky" as Blair is, and Blair, on the other hand, doesn't tend to lose
his temper.
As for the "dead body" thing. Jim is simply more "hardened" than Blair. Again, the
contrast between the two. Would anybody really want a "hard" Blair (get your mind
out of the gutter!) *grin* No, I don't think so. IT just wouldn't be interesting to
have two "hard, rough, macho" characters.
EC Therapy
>
> And good pt otherwise...actually, though, how many times in the show--not the
> fic but the cannon eps--has Blair actually been targetted with the specific
> purpose of getting to Jim and/or the Cascade PD? I mean Blair specifically,
> not like the Golden incident in BMB, that could have been anyone. Lash is
> partly that but I always got the impression it was mostly just because he was
> in contact w/ Blair, he wanted to get on Ellison's nerves but his prime
> purpose was getting Blair for the sake of Blair...
>
Ummm... off the top of my head?? and not necessarily getting the episode
names right?
* The Lee Brackett episode -- Brackett uses Blair to keep Jim
cooperative
* The Cassie Wells does Silence of the Lambs episode -- Cassie and Blair
held prisoner in the loft to draw Jim
Any others??
Angie T.
Blair Kennedy
EC Therapy wrote in message <36258F...@sunlink.net>...
>ek...@arctos.bowdoin.edu wrote:
>>
>>
>
>Ummm... off the top of my head?? and not necessarily getting the episode
>names right?
>
>* The Lee Brackett episode -- Brackett uses Blair to keep Jim
>cooperative
>
>* The Cassie Wells does Silence of the Lambs episode -- Cassie and Blair
>held prisoner in the loft to draw Jim
>
>Any others??
I would almost say "Nightshift," but I don't believe that guy knew who Blair
was, just a convenient hostage.
--Blair Kennedy
ek...@arctos.bowdoin.edu
> Actually, I'm one of the rare fans who likes Jim better
> than Blair. It's similar to the reason why I like cats
> better than dogs (and given their respective animal
> guides, I find that very appropriate).
Not to throw a monkey wrench into things (me? perish the thought! ;) but I
am most definitely a Blair-girl myself, and as anyone who knows me in RL
knows, I'm also a major cat person (have my beloved cat as a kitten on my
mousepad...and a photo of kittens on my desk...and another pic of my cat
adult...er, need I go on? ;)
Though I concede Blair has more puppy-dog traits and Jim more cat ones. Oh
well. What I love in cats I don't necessarily love in people...
> I think the fact that people like to hurt Blair has as
> much to do with genre convention as anything else. As
> the sidekick, he's simply the "designated victim". He's
> a lead character, so people care about him, but he's not
> the hero, whose job it is to save the day with his
> heroness.
>
verra true...apologies to all Jim-lovers, but I am just about DYING for an ep
that Blair for once gets to be the hero and saves the day, more or less all
on his own...one of the reasons I love DeadDrop, he does save himself and the
other 3 folks with his smarts... Ah well, I'm still waiting for Jim to get
'napped and Blair gets to kick down the door, wielding the gun, his hair held
back in a headband...mmm.....er, sorry, back now ;)
I do try to balance my BlairTorture with my JimTorture, though I must concede
that Blair still gets the short end of the stick...except that putting one
through physical angst basically guarantees the other mental/emotional
angst--ah, I betta go write something before this turns into a snipfic here
and now! ;)
> There's also a certain amount of logic to enemies
> targeting Blair. I mean, think of Blair, Jim, and Simon
> -- if you were a villain, and saw two large men carrying
> guns who look like they've been militarily trained, and
> one small slight guy who looks like an academic, who
> would you feel safest picking a fight with? Remember,
> villains are a cowardly and superstitious lot (10 points
> to anyone who catches the reference).
>
Blair K already caught it, to our great gratitude, as it was just 'bout
driving me batty there =)
And good pt otherwise...actually, though, how many times in the show--not the
fic but the cannon eps--has Blair actually been targetted with the specific
purpose of getting to Jim and/or the Cascade PD? I mean Blair specifically,
not like the Golden incident in BMB, that could have been anyone. Lash is
partly that but I always got the impression it was mostly just because he was
in contact w/ Blair, he wanted to get on Ellison's nerves but his prime
purpose was getting Blair for the sake of Blair...
hmm, am I making any sense here? better get back to the books before I lose my
own train of thought...
XmagicalX
too late, it's gone!
Sally
>
> >Again, I disagree. I have yet to see the famous puppy dog eyes. He
> >uses words to persuade people and if necessary he uses the words to
> >wear the other person down. But I can't say he whines. (Can you give
> >me an ep based example so I can see what >you mean?)
>
> Try "The Debt", you know the one where he moves in with Jim. Major puppy dog
> eyes going there. No real whining, but major pleading going on.
>
There is also the scene where he's trying to get Jim to go out with one
of his overbooked girlfriends. Can't remember the name of the episode.
This is about the only Blair characteristic that bothers me. His
romantic obfuscations may be amusing to him, but they probably aren't
very funny to the women who get stood up. I know because I've been
there.
Sally
Sally
>
> But do people really think that Jim is more emotionally stronger than Blair. I
> mean from what I've perceived I would think that the opposite is true. Blair
> seems more emotionally solid and together than Jim. Just because he freaks out
> at a dead body doesn't make him emotionally stronger. I love Jim, love his
> character, and one of those reasons is cuz he's all screwed up. He's had all
> these tramatic experiences in his life that are boiling inside of him, they
> make him vulnerable. And despite what he says, I find that he takes all of his
> cases very seriously. And I also find that he is more prone to emotional
> shocked at Blair outbursts in "Sweet Science". If it had been Jim would we
> have been that shocked.
>
When I said Jim was emotionally stronger, I really meant that when
placed in the same life threatening situations that the fanfic writers
put Blair in, he doesn't display fear the way Blair does. Sure, he's
emotional, but his emotions usually only show themselves as anger, so
the Jim owies don't have the same emotional impact on the readers. If
we took an angsty episode like Cypher, for instance, and reversed the
characters, the show just would not have been the same. If it had been
Jim who was kidnapped by Lash, I think he would have just sat there,
clenched his jaw, and glared at the guy. If it had been Jim who was
seeing golden fire people, he probably would have been trying to shoot
them, but I just can't picture him bursting into tears. The only time I
remember seeing Jim really show fear was at the end of Sentinel Too.
I just think this may be one of the reasons why the writers pick on
Blair more than they do Jim.
Am I making any sense? You know, for someone who considers herself a
lurker, I've sure been doing a lot of talking lately :).
Sally
StarGem
>
> Blair Kennedy wrote:
>
> > MadiHolmes wrote in message
> > <19981007233040...@ng-fa2.aol.com>...
> > >
> > >I mean I go on a month long vacation, and bam, my favorite writer is like
> > >splitsville, man. What happened to her voilatile deranged mind?
> >
> > She was flamed off the internet. It seems a lot of people objected to her
> > particular brand of Blair torture so she packed up her dollies and went
> > home. Too bad. She was one of my favourite writers as well.
> >
>
> Not just flames, but *hate* mail.
>
> Really, I don't understand such things. If you don't like her style or her
> stories, all you have to do is not read them.
That right there is basically why I stopped. I didn't like her style.
But I agree o Ellipsis, that was one of the better death stories that I
have read as well.
>
> But then again, I don't understand how how someone could be tied to a fence
> and set on fire because of their sexual orientation (with the local police
> insisting the motive of such an heinous act was robbery, simply because the
> young man's wallet was gone).
Yeah, that was heart breaking, and I hope it never happens in that state
ever.
Those people (the one's that killed the student) should at least get
'Murder One'.
>
> Sharon's stories might have been hard to read, but RL can be even more
> horrific.
What's RL? Just thought I'd ask.
Mick, if you want, you (or anyone else) can e-mail me at the mailing
address listed below my name.
>
> Mick C.
>
> P. S. - IMHO Sharon's "Ellipsis" was one of the best death stories ever done
> for The Sentinel"
StarGem
>
> Mick wrote:
>
> > Blair Kennedy wrote:
> >
> > > MadiHolmes wrote in message
> > > <19981007233040...@ng-fa2.aol.com>...
> > > >
> > > >I mean I go on a month long vacation, and bam, my favorite writer is like
> > > >splitsville, man. What happened to her voilatile deranged mind?
> > >
> > > She was flamed off the internet. It seems a lot of people objected to her
> > > particular brand of Blair torture so she packed up her dollies and went
> > > home. Too bad. She was one of my favourite writers as well.
> > >
> >
> > Not just flames, but *hate* mail.
> >
> > Really, I don't understand such things. If you don't like her style or her
> > stories, all you have to do is not read them.
> >
> > and set on fire
>
> about a local attack - gang violence - where someone had been doused with a
> flamable liquid and set on fire, and both incidents were on my mind. The young
> man in question was savagely beaten. Matthew Sheppard's attack was horrible
> enough without adding that beastial act to it.
Yeah, I know what you mean. Nobody should even *have* to go through
what Mr. Sheppard did, just because he was gay. What difference does
that make anyway?
>
> My heart goes out to Mr. Sheppard and his family.
My heart goes out to whoever he may have been dating, I'm sure that
person will be missing him something awful. And his family must be
horrified.
I know mine would be if that had been me.
>
> Mick C.
StarGem
>
> Mick <maha...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> > Not just flames, but *hate* mail.
> >
> > Really, I don't understand such things. If you don't like her style or her
> > stories, all you have to do is not read them.
> >
>
> any chance of showing her that we're not all ogres and trolls? I've been
> fortunate enough not to have been flamed very often (a good thing considering
> my ego's a lot fragiler than I make it out to be :) but I have great sympathy
> for those who have. Especially for something like fic--a lot of work goes
> into writing, and to be rewarded so negatively for your troubles...All the
> worse when it affects those of us who *do* like it, denies us the opportunity
> to tell her so and her opportunity to hear it...for me, this obsession is
> fun, a way to relax and enjoy and entertain. I left X-files fandom in part
> because it could be vicious, mean to people because of random opinions, and
> that's not fun as far as I'm concerned; how can you take your pleasure from
> destroying someone else's?
>
> Which is why I'm still enjoying TS so much...the show's diverting, and the
> chars are amusing to play with, and GM especially is great to watch--but most
> of all the people here (that I've encountered) are friendly, fun folk. I wuv
> you guys! =) It's sad Sharon ran into different crowd. Any way we make it
> up to her?
Maybe invite her to post on the ng?
Well that's all I can come up with right now. I'm sure she would like
to hear what we have to say, and to hear that noone *had* to force of
the 'Net.
>
> Pity she left before she found the ng...
Read my two short sentences. I'm sure you can come up with an idea from
just those two.
>
> XmagicalX
>
> > P. S. - IMHO Sharon's "Ellipsis" was one of the best death stories ever done
> > for The Sentinel
> >
>
> Argh! okay, I admit to having my own nefarious purpose...Sharon pulled her
> stuff before I had a chance to more than glimpse them, and I never got to
> this one. Does anyone have a copy of it? I promise if I don't like it my
> lips are sealed, no one will ever know...but I have a feeling I might enjoy
> it. Any angst fans out there willing or able to help a fellow follower of
> angst?
Sorka
>
>However, as much fun as all those are, they still border on the unreal. For
>a heavy shot of gritty realism, you couldn't top Sharon. Perhaps that is why
>some misguided souls felt the need to hate her. I think one of the big draws
>of fanfic, much like the TV shows it is written about, is need to escape the
>ugliness, the bitterness and the disappointment of the work-a-day world. You
>just couldn't do this with Sharon. In her work, as in life, Jim couldn't
>always save the day. I guess some people just couldn't handle that and
>wanted to make her suffer for their disappointment.
Hi,
Though I have NEVER sent Sharon negative feed back ever, and initially
encouraged her when she was on Sentries-ff, I must catagorize myself as
one of those people that can not read her stories. Why? Because I find
the amount of pain and suffering that occured in her first series totally
unrealistic. For someone to survive all of that happed in Happy Families
with their sanity intact would take a major miracle.
And while I do know a person in real life that has suffered horribly over the
years, trust me, they are niether whole nor completely sane any more.
With out serious councling, and a sturdy, unwavering support system,
no one could survive what Sharon has Blair go through. And I'm sorry
but in her stories, even though Jim usually is helping Blair at some point
I didn't see anyone as Blair's support.
I realise this has turned into a flame of sorts, but you must understand the
POV of one who cringed every time a new story of her's was posted.
I'll repeat that I never sent her anything negative, I encouraged her in her
first works. And I know there are many that love her work. But with her list
of stories she had a warning that stated she had a very thin skin and didn't
want to hear anything negative. That really isn't a realistic view of the
world of fanfiction, especially considering the nature of what she wrote. I
honestly wish that she had a tougher skin, so that we all could have a lively
debate with her over the merits of the different types of fanfiction out
there.
Thats all from me, If I've offened anyone by my oppinion, I'm terribly sorry.
Sorka
StarGem
>
> ek...@arctos.bowdoin.edu wrote in message
> >Argh! okay, I admit to having my own nefarious purpose...Sharon pulled her
> >stuff before I had a chance to more than glimpse them, and I never got to
> >this one. Does anyone have a copy of it? I promise if I don't like it my
> >lips are sealed, no one will ever know...but I have a feeling I might enjoy
> >it. Any angst fans out there willing or able to help a fellow follower of
> >angst?
>
> pulled," Blair gloated as she poured another glass of slivovitz and settled
> in to read 'Spatial Properties' one more time.
Some how, that's one of the one's I didn't really like all that much, I
somehow can't get into seeing Blair Sandburg tortured.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not dissing Sharon anymore, but in any other
fanfic as well, I can't deal with Blair Abuse.
That's just my opinion.
>
> --Blair Kennedy
StarGem
>
> Mick wrote:
> >
>
> > Really, I don't understand such things. If you don't like her style or her
> > stories, all you have to do is not read them.
> >
>
>
> I wrote Sharon an e-mail about a month ago asking her why she was no
> longer writing fanfic. She replied that it was more from the lack of
> positive feedback than from flames. I'm not sure if I believe that
> though, since it doesn't explain why she removed her existing stories.
>
> Her stories were very dark and violent, but they all contained warnings
> at the beginning, so noone was being taken by surprise here. I enjoy a
> dark, angsty story sometimes; and, believe me, I've read novels that
> were much worst than anything Sharon has written.
Yeah, although, most of the Stephen King novels I've read have been tame
compared to some of the torture stories I've read on other websites.
And I'm not talking about Sharon's stories either. But I've read quite
a bit of others that were along the same lines as Sharon's.
>
> I wish I had saved her stories, but, unfortunately I didn't. She told
> me that she was going to be away for a couple of months, but when she
> got back, she might start writing again. Maybe we can talk her into
> e-mailing her stories to us.
Yeah, I guess we can.
P.S. I sent a letter to her Geocities e-mail address, but I never got
anything back from her. Not one word. And I was even nice in the
letter.
>
> Sally
StarGem
>
> In article <36214D...@worldnet.att.net>,
> sese...@worldnet.att.net wrote:
>
> > I wrote Sharon an e-mail about a month ago asking her why she was no
> > longer writing fanfic. She replied that it was more from the lack of
> > positive feedback than from flames. I'm not sure if I believe that
> > though, since it doesn't explain why she removed her existing stories.
>
> though her stories were too twisted for me to continue reading--but there is
> a segment of fanfic writers out there who regularly threaten to stop writing,
> or even to do themselves injury, if they receive the slightest negative
> comment or just don't receive the amount of praise they think their writing
> deserves. What happens is, these writers complain and threaten in some public
> way, they immediately receive dozens of pleas not to stop and lots of
> sympathy over the bad treatment they have endured, and they withdraw the
> stop responding. The writers then either start behaving like adults, or more
> often, take their toys and go home. To the best of my knowledge, Sharon has
> chosen to do the latter. If I'm wrong, and she really did take her stories
> down because of hate mail, then I apologize for misjudging her in this
> instance. But knowing what I do of her behavior in the past, I am inclined
> to think my interpretation is correct. She's still a damn good writer,
> though. And she'd be even better if she'd stop giving Blair those
> impossible-to-survive bodily and/or psychological injuries. Just MHO, of
> course.
I agree with Wolfguide. Let's just hope Sharon *isn't* the type to go
on a bender and cause *herself* bodily and/or psychological injuries.
I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy if I had a worst enemy.
That's just not like me, I guess.
>
> Wolfguide
StarGem
>
> I agree totally. I read a lot of Sharon's work, and enjoyed it, for the most part
> (except when she gave Blair permanent injuries that significantly altered his
> character). I did, however, have to take her in doses :-) Her stories were
> intense, and always held my interest, but I like Blair too much to see him
> permanently changed for the worse. But, that's my choice - to read or not to read
> <grin> I was saddened to see her go, though, because now I can't read the
> remaining stories at my leisure when I'm feeling particularly morbid :-)
Yeah, especially with Halloween just around the corner. Wouldn't it be
great if someone were to write a good, scary, TS Halloween story.
Sharon could've done it.
>
> On the note of praise to ff writers, I can't imagine people sending hate mail b/c
> they don't like something. I mean, come on, these are done for free - with
> substantial expenditure of time and effort. If you don't like the story, just
> don't say anything. :-)
That's right. Just don't read it.
>
> However, if you do like, WRITE!!! <big grin> Fan fiction writers are a curious
> bunch, and I myself, a few months ago, never would have thought I'd be into fan
> fiction. I steered clear of it intentionally. But this darn Sentinel world drew
> me in :-) Anyway, back to the point. FF writers spend all this time and energy
> doing what is basically a completely economically inefficient activity. They get
> no pay for it, and usually have to put off RL stuff to finish :-) The only
> compensation received is praise. So, I think the equation is simple enough - you
> want to see more fanfiction, you've gotta pay the dues, and that means e-mailing
> the author to let him or her know that you liked the story. It took the author
> hours to write, it takes you maybe a minute to e-mail her/him and say "good job!"
Again, I agree with the fic author's, in this case, Dawn.
When you like something, say 'thanks', and if you don't, then pleasently
say so, but don't flame.
While I didn't like Sharon's stories, I never 'flamed' her.
>
> I have to chastise myself here b/c, for the longest time, I would just read the
> stories and never even think to e-mail the author... no matter how much pleasure
> I derived from the story. Even now I occasionally still do that... but I do make
> an effort to at least drop a line when I finish a story... and I make a point to
> give sincere comments, b/c, as I know first-hand, those are the most valuable
> kind :-)
>
> Okay, I'm stepping down from the podium now! <grin>
You've said enough. At least in my opinion.
>
> -Dawn-
> > Wolfguide
> >
> > -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
> > http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
>
StarGem
>
> Hope y'all don't mind a (long) "me too" post--but yes, yes! on just about
> every count....
>
> I can understand ff writers who stop writing because the reader response
> dies. Authors in the "real world" write for a living, or at least make a
> little side money (or try to) Definitely it's partly for the pleasure of it;
> why does any artist produce work, after all, if not for that? But what is
> written is meant to be read--it increases my pleasure in what I've done that
> much more to know that someone else enjoyed it too, that I'd made that
> contact. Face it, we all have at least a little ego; it's nice to be
> acknowledged. I start most of my fics because I have an idea that won't
> leave me alone, but especially with these long multi-parters I wouldn't ever
> finish them if I didn't have the encouragement of knowing someone out there
> wanted more!
And you've written quite a bit of good stories also.
>
> I can also understand how this can be twisted, how getting hate mail would
> stop me from writing (or at least from sharing). I've never really been
> flamed myself (ah! hope I don't start something here ;) but if I write a
> story that doesn't get much response, I'm not as likely to start the sequel I
> might have planned or write another story like it.
>
> I admit to having less patience with people who try to incite readers by
> threatening to pull their stuff or stop writing altogether, etc. I can
> understand the drive for reader response (okay, and I admit to a little devil
> inside me wondering, "if you dropped out of the fic circle, would anybody
> miss you?" I'll face up to it...I'm an ego-hound ;) but I haven't actually
> done it...) but trying to force it is a bit childish. Although I don't know
> the story, I'm tempted to think it was something different in Sharon's case,
> because she didn't make a fuss over it, and she pulled her fic entirely
> without leaving a way to contact her to get it back. That indicates she was
> either completely tired with the show and wanted to abandon it
> altogether--which I can see, though I haven't pulled my own TXF stuff--or
> more likely that she was burned pretty bad and doesn't want to continue being
> hurt for something she did out of love of a show's chars and for enjoyment.
> In which case I have only sympathy for her (and for all us reader denied her
> stories!)
Yeah, somehow, I don't go in for ff author's threatening to pull their
stuff just because they're not getting readership. That is pretty
childish, and after a while, the said author might wind up losing
readers that way.
I *am* for author's that are loyal to their readers, and who are honest
with them. Even if that means acknowledging the fact that they aren't
getting good readership.
At least their not acting like children.
>
> My own private confession: I never e'd a single ff writer until I wrote
> something myself and realized how great it really was to hear somebody liked
> it! now I make it a point to drop a quick note whenever I like
> something...ff's a moneyless economy; the only goods are fic and the only
> payment's the response; it's up to us to keep it in circulation! =)
One way to do that is to test it in a setting such as this one. At
least that way you get your feedback from the people that are reading it
for the first time on the ng.
That way, you know whether or not you should make plans for a sequel. I
guess when this ng was formed, Sharon was somehow not notified.
This would've been the place for her to test her stories out on some
kind of an audience.
>
> XmagicalX, trying to incite readers? Never..! ;)
>
> Dawn <Da...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> > I agree totally. I read a lot of Sharon's work, and enjoyed it, for the most
> part
> > (except when she gave Blair permanent injuries that significantly altered his
> > character). I did, however, have to take her in doses :-) Her stories were
> > intense, and always held my interest, but I like Blair too much to see him
> > permanently changed for the worse. But, that's my choice - to read or not to
> read
> > <grin> I was saddened to see her go, though, because now I can't read the
> > remaining stories at my leisure when I'm feeling particularly morbid :-)
> >
> > On the note of praise to ff writers, I can't imagine people sending hate mail
> b/c
> > they don't like something. I mean, come on, these are done for free - with
> > substantial expenditure of time and effort. If you don't like the story, just
> > don't say anything. :-)
> >
> > However, if you do like, WRITE!!! <big grin> Fan fiction writers are a curious
> > bunch, and I myself, a few months ago, never would have thought I'd be into
> fan
> > fiction. I steered clear of it intentionally. But this darn Sentinel world
> drew
> > me in :-) Anyway, back to the point. FF writers spend all this time and energy
> > doing what is basically a completely economically inefficient activity. They
> get
> > no pay for it, and usually have to put off RL stuff to finish :-) The only
> > compensation received is praise. So, I think the equation is simple enough -
> you
> > want to see more fanfiction, you've gotta pay the dues, and that means
> e-mailing
> > the author to let him or her know that you liked the story. It took the author
> > hours to write, it takes you maybe a minute to e-mail her/him and say "good
> job!"
> >
> > I have to chastise myself here b/c, for the longest time, I would just read
> the
> > stories and never even think to e-mail the author... no matter how much
> pleasure
> > I derived from the story. Even now I occasionally still do that... but I do
> make
> > an effort to at least drop a line when I finish a story... and I make a point
> to
> > give sincere comments, b/c, as I know first-hand, those are the most valuable
> > kind :-)
> >
> > Okay, I'm stepping down from the podium now! <grin>
> >
> > -Dawn-
StarGem
>
> ek...@arctos.bowdoin.edu wrote:
> >
> >(okay, and I admit to a little devil
> > inside me wondering, "if you dropped out of the fic circle, would anybody
> > miss you?" I'll face up to it...I'm an ego-hound ;)
>
> keep writing feedback, just please don't go!
I think she knows that Angie, she doesn't need us begging her for mercy.
Plus, she already has a good audience just with the people in the ng.
<g>
>
> Angie T.
StarGem
>
> EC Therapy <doc...@sunlink.net> wrote:
> > ek...@arctos.bowdoin.edu wrote:
> > >
> > >(okay, and I admit to a little devil
> > > inside me wondering, "if you dropped out of the fic circle, would anybody
> > > miss you?" I'll face up to it...I'm an ego-hound ;)
> >
> > Yes! Yes!... a thousand times YES!! Stick around, please! I promise to
> > keep writing feedback, just please don't go!
> >
> >
> I won't! I won't! (I don't need to now--you just made my day! =)
>
> XmagX, who desperately needed a pick-me-up...crawling back to the psych now...
I guess psych class isn't going to well huh? Well, I think you've been
coming to the right place.
I guess you didn't need anyone to point out to you either. <g>
StarGem
>
> wolf...@my-dejanews.com wrote in message
> >
>
> > there is a segment of fanfic writers out there who regularly threaten to
> stop writing,
> >or even to do themselves injury, if they receive the slightest negative
> >comment or just don't receive the amount of praise they think their writing
> >deserves. What happens is, these writers complain and threaten in some
> public
> >way, they immediately receive dozens of pleas not to stop and lots of
> >sympathy over the bad treatment they have endured, and they withdraw the
> >threat. After a while, people get tired of seeing the same threats and
> they
> >stop responding. The writers then either start behaving like adults, or
> more
> >often, take their toys and go home.
>
> debacle. I never understood this. Sure, I like it when someone writes to me
> just to say "good story" or offers some constructive criticism, but I'm not
> going to get the vapours if someone writes and says the story sucked.
>
> I had one gal write to me saying she didn't normally send only negative
> feedback, but she'd make an exception for me. She thought I had Blair acting
> out of character. I thought this was funny coming from a slash perspective
> because how much more out of character can you get than slash? But, I didn't
> pack up toys and head home. I turned that particular story into a series. So
> there. = p
Which of your series of stories are you referring to? Just thought I'd
ask since I haven't been to your page in quite some time, and am
wondering what you have put up since them.
I hope you like the feedback, not just about your stories, but about
your page as well.
>
> I guess that's the difference between me and other writers. I do it for fun.
> As soon as my next obsession takes over, I'm liable to give TS the boot
> without a second thought. Yeah, right. = )
>
> --Blair "My karma just ran over your dogma"Kennedy
StarGem
>
> Caitlin Mackay Shaw wrote in message <7006ds$ka5$1...@lendl.cc.emory.edu>...
> >regarding negative feedback and hate mail -- can i just ask how
> >often this happens? i mean, and please don't take this the wrong
> >way, but is it a gen thing? >
>
> I don't know if it's a gen thing or not because the only gen list I'm on is
> Senfic and people there have always been way supportive, much like on SFX.
> However, I understand there is a bit of ire between other gen lists and the
> slashers. I don't really understand that. I mean, we all like the same show,
> just different facets.
>
> >i'm just curious (i'm *not* trying to start another slash/gen
> >war!) why slash seems to inspire a "don't like it? don't read it"
> >attitude and why anything else could be different... when people
> >write nasty feedback, what do they *say*?
>
> Personally, knock wood, I have not been subjected to any hate mail. I've
> received letters from people who have said they were writing because
> something I had done so disturbed their friends they could not write me
> about it themselves. Those kinds of letters I immediately discount because I
> figure if you are so emotionally crippled something *I* do would send you
> over the edge, then you need some serious help.
Isn't that the honest truth. <g>
Get that person to a shrink, fast.
>
> Personally, I would never send hate mail or flames. I mean, what's the
> point? I think maybe it's kind of power trip. You can say all kinds of
> horrible things to people on the net because chances are you are never going
> to meet them face to face. It's the power( and the cowardice) of anonymity.
True, but I have never flamed any author. Not even Sharon.
>
> >now, of course, all the slashers who've gotten nasty letters are
> >going to prove my sweeping generalizations wrong...
>
> I've gotten a letters from people who didn't want me to write "Cascade
> Place." Of course, I've gotten letters from people who were patiently
> waiting for the next episode. Oh well, there's just no pleasing everyone.
> That's why I always think of myself first. ; )
Is Cascade Place on your page? And if so, which section is it listed
under.
To everyone* Send e-mail to the mailing address listed below my name.
Thanks.
>
> --Blair Kennedy
StarGem
>
> ek...@arctos.bowdoin.edu wrote:
> >
> >
> > > Blair is a pretty popular character because he has been given mostly
> > > positive personality traits. Jim is a bit less likable because he was
> > > given more flaws. This makes the reader more sympathetic when the bad
> > > things happen to Blair-- better drama, if you will.
> > >
> > point to give Blair flaws, often ones I myself don't perceive in him.
>
> the outside. His life as a Ranger and a detective has hardened him to
> where he would not reacted as emotionally to trauma and the bad things
> they encounter as Blair would, so having Blair doing the suffering
> provides the story with more angst. I think that's why many fanfic
> writer make Blair behave much younger that he really is. I makes him
> appear more innocent and vulnerable, so when evil things happen to him,
> they have a greater emotional impact. And, of course, it makes for good
> smarm. JMHO.
>
> >
> > still said she was "a damn good writer". Far from a slam, in the spirit of
> > constructive criticism I would myself take this as a very high compliment
> > indeed, that though it may not be to everyone's taste it's well-written
> > nonetheless. And personally I think her suggestion is on target--I too
> > found what little I read of Sharon's stories to be on the extreme side,
> > pushing past the grounds of believability.
> >
> That's true, but I think most of the fanfic out there does the same
> thing. We have TS in outer space, TS in the wild west, TS in the
> medieval period, Jim and Blair as vampires, Jim and Blair with psychic
> powers, Jim and Blair as lovers. I'm sure there are others that I can't
> recall at the moment. Even the smarm, as much as I love it, tends to
> stretch the boundaries of believability at times. Of course, being a
> big science fiction and horror fan, extreme and unbelievable is just my
> cup of tea <g>.
As per the above paragraph, I think we should thank Em, Klair and BCW,
whoever does the medival stories, Blair, and all the slashers that
currently post to this ng.
Without them, the TS world would be boring.
P.S. I may not have liked the vampire or werewolf stories, but I liked
all the others, and that's what counts.
>
> Sally
StarGem
>
> sese...@worldnet.att.net (Sally) wrote:
>
> > I don't think it's because Jim has more flaws. I think it's because Jim
> > is perceived as being the emotionally stronger of the two. At least on
> > the outside. His life as a Ranger and a detective has hardened him to
> > where he would not reacted as emotionally to trauma and the bad things
> > they encounter as Blair would, so having Blair doing the suffering
> > provides the story with more angst. I think that's why many fanfic
> > writer make Blair behave much younger that he really is. I makes him
> > appear more innocent and vulnerable, so when evil things happen to him,
> > they have a greater emotional impact. And, of course, it makes for good
> > smarm. JMHO.
> >
> or whatever he's more likely to show it (at least that's how he's perceived)
> While as Jim is more likely to show their friendship when he's pushed into it,
> i.e. when Blair's on his deathbed sort of thing...
Not to burst anyone's bubble, but that deathbed thing reminds me about
the ending of S2.
>
> There's also something about the older, (either actually or just in terms of
> relation, experience, ability, etc...) worrying about the younger that's
> sweeter, though I have yet to understand the exact mechanics of it. All I
> know is sis keeps insisting that I hurt Blair, and shoot Guss, and now sis
> herself is tormenting RayK, all in the interests of getting a reaction out of
> the stiff-upper-lip partner...
Who is RayK? Is he one of the DS characters? I *still* don't know much
about that series, or the fanfic for it.
>
> > > I too
> > > found what little I read of Sharon's stories to be on the extreme side,
> > > pushing past the grounds of believability.
> > >
> > That's true, but I think most of the fanfic out there does the same
> > thing. We have TS in outer space, TS in the wild west, TS in the
> > medieval period, Jim and Blair as vampires, Jim and Blair with psychic
> > powers, Jim and Blair as lovers. I'm sure there are others that I can't
> > recall at the moment. Even the smarm, as much as I love it, tends to
> > stretch the boundaries of believability at times. Of course, being a
> > big science fiction and horror fan, extreme and unbelievable is just my
> > cup of tea <g>.
> >
> I'm right with you in that! ;)
>
> Though that might be part of it...I'm a scifi/fantasy fan bigtime (one reason
> I started watching TS was a clip in a commercial of the panther leaping into
> Jim--UPN gets it right once in a looooooooong while...) but despite this I
> don't often read AUs (and I never intend to write them, it's just that
> everything always seems to deviate from the norm...)(actually I might start
> reading them, YMcCool's Upgrade series just loox so interesting, in a sort of
> "ratz, why didn't I think of that?!" kinda way)
Her series is good, and others besides you and I ought to start reading,
although, I haven't been to her page in a while.
Can anyone tell me what part she is on now?
>
> When reading Sharon my believability problem wasn't in what was happening;
> horrific as it was, I concede that in this sadly screwed-up world practically
> anything can happen and more often than not does--it was that Blair could
> survive it at all, even if generally he was broken by it. (And the odds
> against so much happening to one individual, but if you read ff at all you've
> gotta make that mental leap anyway ;) did make for awesome angst, though...
Yeah, it sure did.
>
> and I agree, quite a lot of smarm pushes way past the bounds of "realism" as
> well!
Smarm is good. Although, the smarm I've read was well within the realms
of the actual show.
I could really see what was happening as 'real' as far as the writing on
the show went.
And that says a lot about the show, and the ff writers.
>
> XmagicalX (who has been known to perhaps shove gently over the boundary
> herself...a couple of times...)
Ooooh yes, I've read a couple of those stories. <g>
Mrs. Fish
> Ummm... off the top of my head?? and not necessarily getting the episode
> names right?
>
> * The Lee Brackett episode -- Brackett uses Blair to keep Jim
> cooperative
>
> * The Cassie Wells does Silence of the Lambs episode -- Cassie and Blair
> held prisoner in the loft to draw Jim
>
> Any others??
>
> Angie T.
Actually, I have to disagree with one of these examples.
In Rogue, Brackett brought Blair along to "guide" Jim with his senses. Remember he
was the person who coined this phrase after reading Blair's papers on sentinels.
The threat of spreading the Ebola virus throughout Cascade made Jim cooperative.
Mrs. Fish
ZAguilera
>placed in the same life threatening situations that the fanfic writers
>put Blair in, he doesn't display fear the way Blair does. Sure, he's
>emotional, but his emotions usually only show themselves as anger, so
>the Jim owies don't have the same emotional impact on the readers. If
>we took an angsty episode like Cypher, for instance, and reversed the
>characters, the show just would not have been the same. If it had been
>Jim who was kidnapped by Lash, I think he would have just sat there,
>clenched his jaw, and glared at the guy. If it had been Jim who was
>seeing golden fire people, he probably would have been trying to shoot
>them, but I just can't picture him bursting into tears. The only time I
>remember seeing Jim really show fear was at the end of Sentinel Too.
>
>I just think this may be one of the reasons why the writers pick on
>Blair more than they do Jim.
>
>Am I making any sense? You know, for someone who considers herself a
>lurker, I've sure been doing a lot of talking lately :).
>
>Sally
Really Sally, naughty, naughty. I think you're breaking the lurkers charter
somewhere. Heck but then so am I. And no, you're making complete sense. It's
just sometimes I get on the defensive when people talk about Jim. He seems to
be a lot of people's scapegoat. Some fans like to blame him for all the
problems that have been going on between him and Blair. I haven't heard it on
the ng, and I hope never to do. But I think there is a faction out there that
thinks of Jim as a cold, heartless, troll while Blair is some perfect demi-god.
And that is just not the case.
Zenia
ek...@arctos.bowdoin.edu
the
> > fic but the cannon eps--has Blair actually been targetted with the specific
> > purpose of getting to Jim and/or the Cascade PD? I mean Blair specifically,
> > not like the Golden incident in BMB, that could have been anyone. Lash is
> > partly that but I always got the impression it was mostly just because he
was
> > in contact w/ Blair, he wanted to get on Ellison's nerves but his prime
> > purpose was getting Blair for the sake of Blair...
> >
>
> names right?
>
> * The Lee Brackett episode -- Brackett uses Blair to keep Jim
> cooperative
>
> * The Cassie Wells does Silence of the Lambs episode -- Cassie and Blair
> held prisoner in the loft to draw Jim
>
my hat anyway...
In the Silence of the Lambs ep...er, ratz, what was it? oh yes, Mirror
Image...I know I saw it but I can't remember it clearly. Did Chapel select
them and take them to the loft, or did he just barge in and take whoever was
there? I honestly can't recall...I'm trying to think of a situation that
turns up a lot in fic, someone targets Blair because they know he's Jim's
partner/Jim's friend and is trying to get back at Ellison for something.
(e.g. if you read missing scenes, there were quite a few folks that thought
this SHOULD have been the automatic response of the crazy git in Vendetta;
there's some lovely stuff with him taking Blair to get Jim's goat, but
unfortunately that wasn't in the show...)
ah well, there's tons of fic precedents unseen in the show, more's the pity...
XmagicalX, who'd like Jim to listen to Blair's heartbeat just once...though in
the end of Sen2, was anyone else completely unsurprised to hear Simon
desperately shouting to Jim about the heartbeat, and only realized sometime
later that Jim's never actually heard it that we've *seen*?
ek...@arctos.bowdoin.edu
be saying this a lot lately. At least from my POV it loox like no one has,
and you have no idea how glad I am to find that we can stay on that level! =)
(now if we can keep from completely splitting into factions...)
anyway...
rhia...@raven.cybercomm.net (Sorka) wrote:
> Though I have NEVER sent Sharon negative feed back ever, and initially
> encouraged her when she was on Sentries-ff, I must catagorize myself as
> one of those people that can not read her stories. Why? Because I find
> the amount of pain and suffering that occured in her first series totally
> unrealistic. For someone to survive all of that happed in Happy Families
> with their sanity intact would take a major miracle.
>
A MAJOR miracle! This is precisely what I meant regarding believability.
Beyond the fact that though Blair might be a trouble magnet it's extremely
hard to believe so much happening to one person, it's even harder to see how
he could survive it, mentally, emotionally, or physically. Yes I know he
doesn't make it intact (and that does distress people...and I admit to being
one of those distressed...) but all the same more makes it than I would have
suspected possible...
> And while I do know a person in real life that has suffered horribly over the
> years, trust me, they are niether whole nor completely sane any more.
> With out serious councling, and a sturdy, unwavering support system,
> no one could survive what Sharon has Blair go through. And I'm sorry
> but in her stories, even though Jim usually is helping Blair at some point
> I didn't see anyone as Blair's support.
>
I think this might even be my bigger problem. Er. Umm, if you're one of
Sharon's big fans (or Sharon herself...oh geeze, tell me she's not lurking on
this list. I really really don't want to hurt feelings. But once I formulate
ideas I've got this here internal demon what forces me to pronounce them
aloud...)
Anyway...one of the things that disturbed me I think most of the little I
read of Sharon was her depiction of the partnership. I'm one of those sorts
who loves the whole Sentinel/Guide best friends thru eternity soulmates kind
of relationship. Whether or not that's what's actually pictured on our TV
screens, it's what I like to read (and try to write) Here's where it gets
antsy, because Sharon perhaps is depicting a more realistic relationship in
some ways, that J&B don't always depend on each other...or more of they
can't. Let's see, how do I say this--Jim is dependent on Blair, considers
him best friend and all else, but he never says this and doesn't express it,
to the point that Blair doesn't really believe it so. From the little I read
that seemed to be Sharon's Blair at least; he didn't believe he *could*
depend on Jim, and often enough he couldn't and didn't. The friendshipper
side of me cringed at this...
Or maybe I perused the wrong stories, or maybe I just have a different angle.
I personally found her rather too dark for my fanfic moods, which occur
usually when I want light-weight distractions. I stand by the fact that she
is a good writer, she has excellent angst, and whoever flamed her away from
senfandom was dead wrong.
None of this was meant to be harsh or fiery, I swear...it's almost wishful
thinking, hoping that she'd write something a little sweeter and lighter so
all the stick-in-the-muds smarmluvers could appreciate the excellence of her
writing as much as more intrepid angst-adorators. And Sharon herself, just
from the couple of little introductions I read, sounded like a nice person, a
lot friendlier than her stories! =) I feel sincerely bad for all her fans
denied her writing, and I wish there were some way to undo this...I can't
help but feel a little guilty, after all it was presumably a senfic reader
like all of us that drove her off! there must be a way to prove we're not
all like that...
XmagicalX
does anybody want to take my art history midterm for me?
zul...@my-dejanews.com
>>Zulfiya wrote:
>>>Blair *does* have flaws. He's hyper and overeager
>>> and lies a lot.
>Then Angie T said:
>>Okay, the lying thing I can understand, he does have
>>skirt around the truth alot. But the hyperactivity
>>is something I just don't see. We often see him
>>sitting quietly, studying, meditating or just
>>observing the people around him. I really don't
>>think I have ever seen him *bounce* the way writers
>>often depict him doing non-stop. Sure, he gets
>>pretty expressive when he is excited, but its not a
>>perpetual state.
Actually, hyperactivity (or ADHD) isn’t necessarily a
perpetual condition. One of the warning signs of ADHD
is, in fact, a child who will sit and “zone” from
outside stimuli. [Not that Blair shows any of the
other symptoms - but I had to make the point.]
It’s more, in Blair’s case, that once he goes into hyper
mode - he *won’t* *stop*. Even after the point when it’s
clearly annoying others. He, umm, occasionally misses
golden opportunities to shut up. :)
I’ve never really noticed “bouncing” much myself. He
gestures a lot, not always just with his hands - maybe
that’s what they mean.
>>>He can get so caught up in theory that he loses
>>>track of reality.
>>I disagree here. I think he just has a wider
>>perspective than most people.
And ZAguilera added:
>Yeah but sometimes in those wider perspectives he
>forgets there are real people involved. People with
>feelings, emotions, fears. He did it with Jim at
>their first meeting, and couple other times. I
>realize that it's just enthusiasm and/or coping
>mechanisms. But sometimes he really should think
>before speaking.
What Zenia said! :)
In his social mode, Blair is very empathic, however,
sometimes in academic mode, he’ll be somewhat
insensitive. And he fails to register how his actions
impact other people (as in the basketball ep when he
went off on a tangent investigation without telling
anyone and then popping the info without any
cushioning. Yes, it had the desired effect, but it
also bruised some feelings.)
>>>He whines.
>>Again, I disagree. I have yet to see the famous
>>puppy dog eyes. He uses words to persuade people and
>>if necessary he uses the words to wear the other
>>person down. But I can't say he whines. (Can you
>>give me an ep based example so I can see what you
>>mean?)
>Try "The Debt", you know the one where he moves in
>with Jim. Major puppy dog eyes going there. No real
>whining, but major pleading going on.
Let’s see (and I’m bad at quoting episode titles) ...
Another puppy-dog eyes instance would be in the second
season episode with Maya. When he was being held, he
kept giving this look to Jim like “why aren’t you doing
anything.”
I think the whining has popped up in the cold-and-wet
scenes. And occasionally when complaining about girl
troubles.
-S
-- )
|S A Rudy _,'| _.-''``-...___..--';
|Zul...@my-dejanews.com /, \'. _..-' , ,--...--'''
|http://www.eclipse.net/~srudy < \ .`--''' ` /|
| `-,;' ; ; ;
|"I'm not evil, I'm ... __...--'' __...--_..' .;.'
|differently motivated" (,__....----''' (,..--''
zul...@my-dejanews.com
>ek...@arctos.bowdoin.edu wrote:
>> And good pt otherwise...actually, though, how many times in the show--not
>>the fic but the cannon eps--has Blair actually been targetted with the
>>specific purpose of getting to Jim and/or the Cascade PD? I mean Blair
>>specifically, not like the Golden incident in BMB, that could have been
>>anyone. Lash is partly that but I always got the impression it was mostly
>>just because he was in contact w/ Blair, he wanted to get on Ellison's
>>nerves but his prime purpose was getting Blair for the sake of Blair...
>Ummm... off the top of my head?? and not necessarily getting the episode
>names right?
>* The Lee Brackett episode -- Brackett uses Blair to keep Jim
>cooperative
>* The Cassie Wells does Silence of the Lambs episode -- Cassie and Blair
>held prisoner in the loft to draw Jim
Blair was a hostage in place of Maya in the 2nd season ep.
You could argue that his being grabbed in Night Shift had to do with
him looking easier to subdue than most of the cops.
Siege gets disqualifies for the same reason as the Golden incident.
He did that to himself.
-S
--
--
|Come visit the Comparative List of Vampire Mythology!
|http://www.eclipse.net/~srudy/myths.html
maha...@ix.netcom.com
>
> EC Therapy wrote in message <36258F...@sunlink.net>...
> >ek...@arctos.bowdoin.edu wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >
> >names right?
> >
> >* The Lee Brackett episode -- Brackett uses Blair to keep Jim
> >cooperative
> >
> >* The Cassie Wells does Silence of the Lambs episode -- Cassie and Blair
> >held prisoner in the loft to draw Jim
> >
> >Any others??
>
> was, just a convenient hostage.
Oh this is a good one... :)
Um, the episode that introduced Uncle Gustavo. His goons pin Blair down
on a work table and threaten to burn his hand with a blow torch if Jim
doesn't cooperate! EEEP! (I hate that scene! Poor Blair was whimpering
with terror while those baddies held him down! ACK!)
Mick C.
wolf...@my-dejanews.com
EC Therapy <doc...@sunlink.net> wrote:
> wolf...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> >
> >
> > there is
> > a segment of fanfic writers out there who regularly threaten to stop
writing,
> > or even to do themselves injury, if they receive the slightest negative
> > comment or just don't receive the amount of praise they think their writing
> > deserves.
>
> Again, I think the percentage of writers who fall into the category you
> have described is roughly equal to the number who want to see Taggert in
> a gold lame' thong (or Dennis Franz's backside).
>
> What happens is, these writers complain and threaten in some public
> > way, they immediately receive dozens of pleas not to stop and lots of
> > sympathy over the bad treatment they have endured, and they withdraw the
> > threat.
>
> Funny, I don't remember ever seeing this happen.
Well, either you haven't been around TS fanfiction very long, or you're very
lucky. I've seen it happen many times, with many different fanfic authors. e
The Beach debacle was only one more example of this phenomenon, and by far the
nastiest I have seen. Sharon has never been nasty, but she is extremely
sensitive.
>
> After a while, people get tired of seeing the same threats and they
> > stop responding. The writers then either start behaving like adults, or
more
> > often, take their toys and go home. To the best of my knowledge, Sharon has
> > chosen to do the latter.
>
> Um, do you have a grudge against the woman or what?
I have nothing against Sharon. As I said, I think she is an excellent
writer, even if I can't get past the content of her stories in order to read
them. I did read the first few, and the woman can definitely write. It is
her behavior that disturbs me, and that of other writers who fall into the
same category. I was attempting to explain the phenomenon, and relieve
others of the need to be upset about what had happened if this were the case
in this instance.
>
> If I'm wrong, and she really did take her stories
> > down because of hate mail, then I apologize for misjudging her in this
> > instance. But knowing what I do of her behavior in the past, I am inclined
> > to think my interpretation is correct.
>
> And how well do you know her? Spemd alot of time over coffee chatting
> with the lady, do you? Truth is, you can't honestly say you know anyone
> on the net. Things written down in black and white, without the visual
> cues one is used to in conversation, tend to be taken the wrong way.
> Try to give people the benefit of the doubt.
I do not know her personally, nor have I claimed to. I have seen her posts
(back when she was on lists) and I do know people who have corresponded with
her privately. Sharon made these threats quite frequently, and actually took
her stories down once before. Of course I can't know what motivates anyone
who does this, but when people (not just Sharon by any means) say they've
been criticized and are therefore going to take their stories away and not
write anymore, I think the meaning of the words is quite clear, and one does
not have to know those who write them personally. I do actually know
personally two other writers who have also behaved in this manner, and find
it no more acceptable in people I know than in people I don't.
That said, I have learned from someone who does correspond with Sharon
privately that she was indeed flamed and flamed badly, and that *is* why she
took her stories down. So the phenomenon was not responsible for the loss of
her stories in this case, and I heartily apologize to her (in spirit, as she
is not here) for thinking it did. I have also learned who sent the flame, and
am not surprised by the identity of the flamer, but I am disgusted by this
person's behavior and by the consequences to Sharon and the rest of TS
fandom. Just because I can't read Sharon's stories myself doesn't mean I
don't think they should be out there for those who can enjoy them. In fact,
if whoever said Sharon had told her she might be back could do her best to
persuade her, that would be wonderful. I hate to see anyone made to withdraw
from something they enjoy because of another person's cruelty.
>
> She's still a damn good writer,
> > though. And she'd be even better if she'd stop giving Blair those
> > impossible-to-survive bodily and/or psychological injuries. Just MHO, of
> > course.
>
> Personally, I think it makes for great drama. If we changed the name of
> the characters and set it in a slightly different place, you could
> probably use one of her stories to make a very dramatic Made-for-TV
> Movie... and if nothing life threatening or awful ever happened to the
> guys, the series would be pretty dull.
Hey, I have nothing against dramatic or life-threatening. I'm a writer
myself, and I love h/c. But there is such a thing as taking life-threatening
to ridiculous extremes. Two liver transplants in one story? Stabbed, shot,
beaten, raped, what have you, again and again and again? Sorry, a little
goes a long way, and a lot goes way too far. H/C is great stuff, but if an
author--any author--gives the character injuries that are not survivable
either physically or emotionally, and it's not supposed to be a death story,
that's too much. There comes a point when the author is doing it in order to
give a greater and greater "thrill" or more intense experience, without any
dramatic necessity, and that is the point at which it becomes, for me,
ridiculous. If I'm reading something and find myself saying, "Oh, come on!",
there's a problem. Sharon is not by any means the only author who does this,
but she is the best known among TS fandom. And I think it's a shame, because
she writes so beautifully.
And I have to disagree, I don't think a Movie of the Week would go that far in
the extraneous physical injury department.
>
> Why am I sticking my nose into this business? Mostly because I hate to
> see people being slammed when they aren't around to defend themselves.
> If Sharon were posting to the newsgroup, I probably wouldn't have said a
> word. Her stories weren't something I would want to read everyday but no
> one was making either. There are one or two authors who still have
> stories on the net that write such dark plots that I feel the same about
> them. But, again, no one is forcing me to click on those sites.
I'm sorry you think that my expressing my opinion constitutes a slam. It's
sweet of you to defend Sharon, and I commend you for it.
Wolfguide
Sabrah n'haRaven
Zulfiya wrote:
> You could argue that his being grabbed in Night Shift had to do with
> him looking easier to subdue than most of the cops.
>
> Siege gets disqualifies for the same reason as the Golden incident.
> He did that to himself.
Umm, actually he got himself into it in Nightshift too. One of
my favorite bits of the episode: Bad Guy is shooting; in a
hallway full of cops, _Blair_ is the one who jumps the Bad Guy.
:-) And of course, promptly gets himself held hostage, but at
least he did manage to disarm the guy.
XmagX wrote:
> Image...I know I saw it but I can't remember it clearly. Did Chapel select
> them and take them to the loft, or did he just barge in and take whoever was
> there?
He barged in when they were there already, but the implication is
that he followed them there.
Bagheera
--
Sabrah n'haRaven Bagheera Sapphire-Eyed jou...@his.com
"A wild patience has taken us thus far..." - Adrienne Rich
EC Therapy
>
>
> Well, either you haven't been around TS fanfiction very long, or you're very
> lucky. I've seen it happen many times, with many different fanfic authors. e
> The Beach debacle was only one more example of this phenomenon, and by far the
> nastiest I have seen. Sharon has never been nasty, but she is extremely
> sensitive.
>
quite a while before all the general nastiness got too much to bear. I
guess that's why I over-reacted (I admit I did) to your original post.
It just reminded me too much of the atmosphere over there.
> I have nothing against Sharon. As I said, I think she is an excellent
> writer, even if I can't get past the content of her stories in order to read
> them. I did read the first few, and the woman can definitely write. It is
> her behavior that disturbs me, and that of other writers who fall into the
> same category. I was attempting to explain the phenomenon, and relieve
> others of the need to be upset about what had happened if this were the case
> in this instance.
Ok, "I hear that" <<grin>>. I'm sorry I took it wrong. Blame it on
lack of sleep and all the other extraneous RL stuff that put me in a
mood before I even read the post. Still not an excuse though, for me to
react as I did.
> > She's still a damn good writer,
> > > though. And she'd be even better if she'd stop giving Blair those
> > > impossible-to-survive bodily and/or psychological injuries. Just MHO, of
> > > course.
> >
> > Personally, I think it makes for great drama. If we changed the name of
> > the characters and set it in a slightly different place, you could
> > probably use one of her stories to make a very dramatic Made-for-TV
> > Movie... and if nothing life threatening or awful ever happened to the
> > guys, the series would be pretty dull.
>
Just to interject a comment on my comment... I never said I *liked*
Made-for-TV Movies. Personally, I avoid them for the same reason I do
Soap Operas--my own life holds more drama than these shows. I prefer
shows that make me laugh or feel good, not that make me relieve
something painful. However, many of the more angst-laden plots I see on
the net (not just Sharon's, not just Senfic) could be easily made into
one of those movies.
> Hey, I have nothing against dramatic or life-threatening. I'm a writer
> myself, and I love h/c. But there is such a thing as taking life-threatening
> to ridiculous extremes. Two liver transplants in one story? Stabbed, shot,
> beaten, raped, what have you, again and again and again? Sorry, a little
> goes a long way, and a lot goes way too far.
Yup. Maybe thats why I prefer to write short stories... kind of limits
the damage you can do as an author.
>H/C is great stuff, but if an
> author--any author--gives the character injuries that are not survivable
> either physically or emotionally, and it's not supposed to be a death story,
> that's too much. There comes a point when the author is doing it in order to
> give a greater and greater "thrill" or more intense experience, without any
> dramatic necessity, and that is the point at which it becomes, for me,
> ridiculous.
Yeah, you have a point. The damage done to a character should have a
reason within the plot, be necessary in some way. Otherwise it is just
gratuitous violence.
If I'm reading something and find myself saying, "Oh, come on!",
> there's a problem. Sharon is not by any means the only author who does this,
> but she is the best known among TS fandom. And I think it's a shame, because
> she writes so beautifully.
This is where a really honest beta reader comes in. A BR should be
willing to say "Hold on, you went overboard." and a writer should be
willing to accept that, or be willing to hear it later in less polite
terms from the readers. The BR's job is to tell the writer the things
the reader will be thinking, while there is still a chance to change
it. BTW, I have excellent Beta Readers and NO I am not sharing!!
<<grin>>
>
> And I have to disagree, I don't think a Movie of the Week would go that far in
> the extraneous physical injury department.
Hmmm, depends on the network maybe.
> I'm sorry you think that my expressing my opinion constitutes a slam. It's
> sweet of you to defend Sharon, and I commend you for it.
After rereading what you wrote, I have to agree that you didn't really
slam her. I defer to my previous apology (hey, if Clinton can do it...
).
I promise to think first and post later in the future and to try never
to post on fewer than 5 hours sleep again.
Angie T.
Blair Kennedy
EC Therapy wrote in message <36268A...@sunlink.net>...
>wolf...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>>
>>
>Admittedly, I haven't been in Senfic long. I was on the XF ngs for
>quite a while before all the general nastiness got too much to bear. I
>guess that's why I over-reacted (I admit I did) to your original post.
>It just reminded me too much of the atmosphere over there.
I haven't been on Senfic, SFX or Senad that long, but I've noticed instances
of general nastiness. Perhaps not to the degree of the infamous XF ngs, but
it has been there. Even more recently than that "Beach" fiasco, saraid left
Senad because, for some reason known only to God, one evening she became the
designated whipping girl all because she didn't capitalise her name. Explain
that.
On the lesser known Blairlist, there was an instance where one writer
blasted another over her spelling difficulties. Sure, the girl has problems,
but not enough to make me throw a big old hissy fit. To me, that's what a
flame is--a big old hissy fit. It's not to be taken seriously.
--Blair Kennedy
Yatokahc
<<<< In his social mode, Blair is very empathic, however,
sometimes in academic mode, he’ll be somewhat
insensitive. And he fails to register how his actions
impact other people (as in the basketball ep when he
went off on a tangent investigation without telling
anyone and then popping the info without any
cushioning. Yes, it had the desired effect, but it
also bruised some feelings.) >>>>
Delurking here... just for a moment.
I would sum up the difference between the two men as a difference in their
'maturity' level. The character of Blair is very mature in some respects, but
very immature in others. The same can be said for Jim. But, Blair is more
obviously immature (and this is not meant in a negative way). When a person is
born, their world is 'me'... me me me me me. As they grow, their world expands
to include others... where the focus slowly changes from 'me' to 'we' and/or
'you' (of course, I know many 'older' people who haven't gotten past the 'me'
part yet!). It's a lifelong path, travelled at different speeds by different
people. I think Jim is further down the path than Blair. Jim has more life
experience under his belt. He's older (by many years). Seen more. Been through
more. His vision of the world and his place in it has had more time to evolve.
Don't get me wrong... Jim can be an inconsiderate jerk too. But, there's
something innately different in the insensitivity of youth and that of us older
folk! Perhaps we're more deliberate about it!
LOL! Does this make any sense? Probably not! I'm good at talking in cirlces!
All that aside, the show provides an interesting study in difference. It amazes
me how well it works.
- Suz
Sally
>
> Hey, I have nothing against dramatic or life-threatening. I'm a writer
> myself, and I love h/c. But there is such a thing as taking life-threatening
> to ridiculous extremes. Two liver transplants in one story? Stabbed, shot,
> beaten, raped, what have you, again and again and again? Sorry, a little
> goes a long way, and a lot goes way too far. H/C is great stuff, but if an
> author--any author--gives the character injuries that are not survivable
> either physically or emotionally, and it's not supposed to be a death story,
> that's too much. There comes a point when the author is doing it in order to
> give a greater and greater "thrill" or more intense experience, without any
> dramatic necessity, and that is the point at which it becomes, for me,
> ridiculous. If I'm reading something and find myself saying, "Oh, come on!",
> there's a problem. Sharon is not by any means the only author who does this,
> but she is the best known among TS fandom. And I think it's a shame, because
> she writes so beautifully.
>
Although I'm a big fan of Sharon's I will agree with you on that point.
I think a few writers suffer from the 'more is better' syndrome
especially when it comes to angst or smarm because they know it's
popular with readers. I know I've read some smarm that was beautifully
written, but had Blair being treated like a 5 year old, or Jim and Blair
saying and doing things that men in RL would never do. I think Sharon
tended to do the same thing with angst. These are only the opinions of a
reader. I've never written any fanfic myself, although I would like to
try my hand at it someday.
I don't mean to offend any smarm writers out there. I still love the
stories and devour them avidly as I did Sharon's. But some of it, to
me, is closer to AU than RL. I also considered Sharon's stories to be AU
for the same reason.
The wonderful thing about fanfic is that there is something out there
for everyone, no matter what their tastes are.
Sally
Sorka
>Oh this is a good one... :)
>
>Um, the episode that introduced Uncle Gustavo. His goons pin Blair down
>on a work table and threaten to burn his hand with a blow torch if Jim
>doesn't cooperate! EEEP! (I hate that scene! Poor Blair was whimpering
>with terror while those baddies held him down! ACK!)
>
>Mick C.
>
I hate to say contradict you, but I just watched Second Chance today,
and Blair was NOT whimpering in terror. Yes he was scared, but he
told Jim over and over again not to say anything about where Maya was.
Jim on the other hand was just barely keeping his cool and not attacking
everyone in the room at once. Protective instincts on overload. ;)
Sorka
maha...@ix.netcom.com
>
> In article <36264E...@ix.netcom.com>, maha...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>
> >Oh this is a good one... :)
> >
> >Um, the episode that introduced Uncle Gustavo. His goons pin Blair down
> >on a work table and threaten to burn his hand with a blow torch if Jim
> >doesn't cooperate! EEEP! (I hate that scene! Poor Blair was whimpering
> >with terror while those baddies held him down! ACK!)
> >
> >Mick C.
> >
>
> I hate to say contradict you, but I just watched Second Chance today,
> and Blair was NOT whimpering in terror. Yes he was scared, but he
> told Jim over and over again not to say anything about where Maya was.
Okay, it maybe it was me whimpering in terror. ;]
> Jim on the other hand was just barely keeping his cool and not attacking
> everyone in the room at once. Protective instincts on overload. ;)
See, now, I would have loved to see Jim go totally berserk, do some mad
animal bellowing and scare the crap out of everyone in the room, then
kick their butts from here to Sunday!
N*B*F*W*T*G!!
}:]
Mick C.
wolf...@my-dejanews.com
yato...@aol.com (Yatokahc) wrote:
> zul...@my-dejanews.com wrote
>
>
> When a person is
> born, their world is 'me'... me me me me me. As they grow, their world expands
> to include others... where the focus slowly changes from 'me' to 'we' and/or
> 'you' (of course, I know many 'older' people who haven't gotten past the 'me'
> part yet!). It's a lifelong path, travelled at different speeds by different
> people. I think Jim is further down the path than Blair.
I have to disagree here. I think Blair is, and has always been, much farther
down the path of considering other people rather than just himself. It is
Blair who has compassion for others, and demonstrates it regularly. It is
Blair who has virtually given up his life in order to help Jim. Yes, he's
supposed to get the dissertation out of it, but has he? No, he's been
putting it off deliberately so he can stay close to Jim. And when he does
finally start to write the diss, what does Jim do? Does he hold up his end
of the bargain, after having received the benefits of Blair's end of it for 3
years? No, he wants Blair to trash the diss because he thinks it makes him
look bad.
Jim's outlook is "me, me, me", far more often than Blair's ever is. Yes,
he's a hero, who regularly risks his life to save other people, including,
occasionally, Blair. But in his relationship with Blair, Jim considers
himself of paramount importance. Which is not to say that Jim doesn't feel
responsible for Blair's safety. He does, and should, since Blair is only in
dangerous situations in the first place because of Jim. But Blair's needs
don't enter into Jim's equation. When Blair does something Jim doesn't like,
it's a breach of trust. When Jim is angry, Blair has betrayed him. When
Blair gets an offer to go to Borneo, it's "What about this Sentinel thing?"
(What about *me*?). Blair is not supposed to think about his career, he's
supposed to subordinate himself to Jim, and if he doesn't, Jim gets all
pissy. This is not mature behavior. Neither are the constant put-downs
directed at Blair: "Shorteyes", "Junior", the "table leg" thing, the $100
bill bit--Jim says cruel things to Blair all the time. This can be called
teasing, but underneath, perhaps so far underneath that Jim is not
consciously aware of it, it's another way to subordinate Blair, to make him
aware of just who is top dog in the relationship. And Blair just takes it,
and does his best to help Jim whenever Jim needs it, and to help anyone else
he runs across who seems to need it, no matter who they are. This is not
immature behavior.
Blair's immaturity shows in his relationships with women, though this is not
always the case. He overbooks and obfuscates and apparently has a string of
girlfriends, but he loved Maya, who broke his heart, and he displayed a
commendable maturity in his relationship with Katie in Neighborhood Watch. As
an interesting note there, Jim teases Blair about his lovelife, but we've
seen Blair with the same woman more than once--Christine and Molly, for
instance. Aside from Carolyn--and they were divorced--we haven't seen Jim
date any woman more than once. And he's been through a lot more of them than
Blair has.
So who's more mature here? In my book, it ain't Jim. And lest anyone think
I'm a Jim-hater, I like Jim, I *love* Jim, he's a complex guy who can be
incredibly sweet and has an essential nobility and overdeveloped sense of
responsibility that are admirable, but man, he can be such a jerk when he
sets out to be!
Sorka
>> I hate to say contradict you, but I just watched Second Chance today,
>> and Blair was NOT whimpering in terror. Yes he was scared, but he
>> told Jim over and over again not to say anything about where Maya was.
>
>Okay, it maybe it was me whimpering in terror. ;]
>
>> Jim on the other hand was just barely keeping his cool and not attacking
>> everyone in the room at once. Protective instincts on overload. ;)
>
>See, now, I would have loved to see Jim go totally berserk, do some mad
>animal bellowing and scare the crap out of everyone in the room, then
>kick their butts from here to Sunday!
>
>N*B*F*W*T*G!!
>
One of the things I've noticed about the way Jim fights is that he doesn't
talk. He is what I term a silent/deadly fighter. Which if you think about it
is often worse for the opponent because they have no way of gaging Jim's
mental state.
This style is a product of his training in Special Forces/Covert Ops.
To take out the enemy as quickly and quietly as possible.
Which brings up another point, Jim often looks to be on the loosing end of a
fight when trying to apprehend a suspect. That isn't quite the case, since he
was trained to *kill* first, he has to back off of his training.
In Survival, the fight with Quinn, I think if Simon hadn't been there, Quinn
would be sitting at the bottom of that mine shaft right now.
What do you think?
Sorka
ek...@arctos.bowdoin.edu
> When I said Jim was emotionally stronger, I really meant that when
> placed in the same life threatening situations that the fanfic writers
> put Blair in, he doesn't display fear the way Blair does. Sure, he's
> emotional, but his emotions usually only show themselves as anger, so
> the Jim owies don't have the same emotional impact on the readers. If
> we took an angsty episode like Cypher, for instance, and reversed the
> characters, the show just would not have been the same. If it had been
> Jim who was kidnapped by Lash, I think he would have just sat there,
> clenched his jaw, and glared at the guy. If it had been Jim who was
> seeing golden fire people, he probably would have been trying to shoot
> them, but I just can't picture him bursting into tears. The only time I
> remember seeing Jim really show fear was at the end of Sentinel Too.
>
> I just think this may be one of the reasons why the writers pick on
> Blair more than they do Jim.
>
> Am I making any sense? You know, for someone who considers herself a
> lurker, I've sure been doing a lot of talking lately :).
>
> Sally
>
Isn't it even more fun this way, though? we're so glad to have you, now that
we know you're out there! =)
Jim bursting into tears...hmmm...well, he wouldn't *burst* into tears, but
I'm sure I can write him crying somehow...(like, right after the "to be
continued" in Sen2...mmmm, can't wait to get home and watch that
my-favorite-scene one more time, happy in the assurance that the guppy will
return...)
XmagicalX
done the midterms, starting fall break, and I'm feeling muuuuuuuch better!!!
ZAguilera
>fight when trying to apprehend a suspect. That isn't quite the case, since he
>
>was trained to *kill* first, he has to back off of his training.
>
>In Survival, the fight with Quinn, I think if Simon hadn't been there, Quinn
>would be sitting at the bottom of that mine shaft right now.
>
>What do you think?
>
>Sorka
Well I always figured that he would kill Quinn. But I think you're right about
his fighting style. I never thought of that, cool. I always figured it just
took him awhile to warm up.
Zenia
Yatokahc
is. Yes,
he's a hero, who regularly risks his life to save other people, including,
occasionally, Blair. But in his relationship with Blair, Jim considers
himself of paramount importance. Which is not to say that Jim doesn't feel
responsible for Blair's safety. He does, and should, since Blair is only in
dangerous situations in the first place because of Jim. But Blair's needs
don't enter into Jim's equation. When Blair does something Jim doesn't like,
it's a breach of trust. When Jim is angry, Blair has betrayed him. When
Blair gets an offer to go to Borneo, it's "What about this Sentinel thing?"
(What about *me*?). Blair is not supposed to think about his career, he's
supposed to subordinate himself to Jim, and if he doesn't, Jim gets all
pissy. This is not mature behavior. Neither are the constant put-downs
directed at Blair: "Shorteyes", "Junior", the "table leg" thing, the $100
bill bit--Jim says cruel things to Blair all the time. This can be called
teasing, but underneath, perhaps so far underneath that Jim is not
consciously aware of it, it's another way to subordinate Blair, to make him
aware of just who is top dog in the relationship. And Blair just takes it,
and does his best to help Jim whenever Jim needs it, and to help anyone else
he runs across who seems to need it, no matter who they are. This is not
immature behavior.>>>>
I didn't say Jim didn't exhibit any 'me me me' behavior. He most certainly
does. In fact, I said he could be an insensitive jerk... which he most
certainly is, at times.
Quick aside --- the name-calling thing? That, IMHO, is a guy thing. I have 4
brothers who live to create uniquely new names for each other, and me. It seems
to me more an 'acceptable form' of showing affection among the male half of the
species. Kind of like punching a girl in the arm when they are really young...
just to show they care. Men have not exactly been encouraged in western culture
to touch or hug or verbally show affection with other men. But, I digress.
I didn't say that Blair was completely immature either. He has his mature
aspects. However, there is something more innately different in the immaturity
they exhibit. Jim's tends to manifest itself more as insecurity. That, combined
with his need to control... well... ahem! It's important for him to be in
control. I don't know that he necessarily has to control other people, but he
most definitely has to be in control of himself and his 'territory'. A flaw or
a weakness is dangerous to him. Jim's circumstance with his senses (and his
inability to control them) forced him to seek some sort of order or control in
at least some aspect of his life... so that he could retain some small piece of
his sanity. The need is very understandable, considering the quality of his
life immediately before (and when) he met Blair. Anyway, along comes an
'obfuscating' long-haired young person... in all probability the kind of person
(at least superficially) that Ellison busted every day in Vice (I know... it's
a generality based on television-perpetuated stereotypes. So sue me ;D). This
kid says he can help. Jim needs help... desperately. But, in order to gain
control and regain some sense of self, Jim has to hand the reigns of control to
someone else. That had to be one hell of a hard thing for him to do. I'd go
kicking and screaming too! Is that immature? I don't think so. In some respects
yes, but overall no. Jim didn't know Blair from Adam (sorry... just a 'saying'
my mom used as I was growing up). And Jim was being asked to trust him. I think
it took a real strength of character for him to 'submit' himself.
Jim's way of reacting to the world was an automatic defense mechanism... to
protect himself and others. We all have them. Blair does too. Jim's are a bit
more extreme. But then, his circumstance is bit more extreme. Slowly, over
time, I think he's mellowing (okay... let's ignore Sentinel Too. I really
really really don't like the Jim I saw there.). Actually, Jim's achilles heel
is Blair. He doesn't attempt to subordinate Blair, IMHO. When Blair is with Jim
while doing police work, Blair should follow orders. Period. Chain of command.
Safety of himself and others around him. We don't have to go into the reasons.
I don't think it's a matter of trust... not personal trust anyway... and Jim
shouldn't make it one. But, it's a matter of authority and respect. Blair
doesn't listen very well. Beyond the reach of police work, I sill don't believe
Jim tries to subordinate Blair. Jim is vulnerable to Blair when he 'submits'
himself. That's hard for a macho guy like himself (can you hear the sarcasm in
that sentence? Please?). It's hard for anyone! And there's still that innate
need to regain control of a small part of his world and himself. Blair lives
and breathes within the boundaries of that territory. Jim's responses and
behaviors are mechanisms that take time to remold. Blair knows that. So does
Jim. Is this a way to subordinate Blair? No. I don't think Jim is fighting to
control Blair. He's fighting to remain in control of himself. And through it
all, he's fighting to protect the people of Cadcade. Is that immature?
Jim's in a struggle with himself. Blair serves to guide and focus the small
battles Jim fights from day to day... to help Jim regain control of himself.
Jim does feel responsible for Blair, because in some way, Blair's the
proverbial innocent bystander caught up in Jim's life... a very dangerous life.
Jim can be overprotective at times, but I think the concern is justified in
many ways... Jim's inability to control his senses, Blair's inability to do
what he's told <G>, the nature of Jim's job, etc. Jim's reactions are typical
too. When my children get hurt doing something I told them not to do... I am
concerned, but I am also *very* mad. And don't think they don't know I'm mad!
Natural response.
I also think Jim has very high 'standards' regarding people and their behavior
(perhaps too high)... and he holds people to those standards, at least people
he is close to, and that sets him up for disappointment too often... even with
himself. Trust is a big thing with him... a direct result of those standards.
TPTB seem to make the strangest things an issue of trust though. I don't
understand the argument in 'Night Shift' where Jim reads the diss and tells
Blair he's betrayed a trust. Huh? Where did the writer come up with that? But,
it was said and Jim said it. It was Jim who betrayed a trust by reading
something Blair specifically asked him not too. But, note also, that Jim is
able to tell Blair he (Jim) was wrong... not in so many words, but he does tell
Blair that he was wrong. An ep where we see both the immature and mature
aspects of Jim.
<<<< So who's more mature here? In my book, it ain't Jim. And lest anyone
think
I'm a Jim-hater, I like Jim, I *love* Jim, he's a complex guy who can be
incredibly sweet and has an essential nobility and overdeveloped sense of
responsibility that are admirable, but man, he can be such a jerk when he
sets out to be! >>>>
LOL! I guess we just disagree... on the maturity thing. I happen to agree with
you on the Jim thing. I *love* Jim too. He is complex and all those other
things too. So is Blair... just in different aspects of his character.
The funniest part of all of this is that of the two characters, I like Blair
far more than I like Jim!
- Suz
ZAguilera
>he's a hero, who regularly risks his life >to save other people, including,
>himself of paramount importance. Which is >not to say that Jim doesn't feel
>responsible for Blair's safety. He does, and >should, since Blair is only in
>dangerous situations in the first place >because of Jim. But Blair's needs
>don't enter into Jim's equation. When Blair >does something Jim doesn't like,
>it's a breach of trust. When Jim is angry, >Blair has betrayed him. When
>Blair gets an offer to go to Borneo, it's "What >about this Sentinel thing?"
>(What about *me*?). Blair is not supposed to >think about his career, he's
>supposed to subordinate himself to Jim, and >if he doesn't, Jim gets all
>pissy.
Whoa, whoa, whoa, hold on here. I don't think that was the case at all. I saw
it as Jim being afraid. Here he is, this guy with overactive senses that he
can't control and Jim needs control. The only person who can help him is this
kid. Blair has no personal stake in it, he can leave any time he wants, screw
the friendship, and Jim's gotta spend the rest of his life handicapped. Jim
didn't try to stop Blair from going to Borneo, didn't ask him to stay. He was
angry, but then I would be to. Blair said he would help but then he gets
something better and decides that maybe it's more important. Nope sorry.
>This is not mature behavior. >Neither are >the constant put-downs
>directed at Blair: "Shorteyes", "Junior", the >"table leg" thing, the $100
>bill bit--Jim says cruel things to Blair all the >time. This can be
called
>teasing, but underneath, perhaps so far >underneath that Jim is not
>consciously aware of it, it's another way to >subordinate Blair, to make him
>aware of just who is top dog in the >relationship.
<snip>
Again, I don't see that. Okay that "Short-Eyes" thing was a little cruel but I
normally discount all the stuff Jim did in the first episode. Jim didn't know
him, did have any reason to like him. As for "Junior" and "table legs"
comments that's just guy teasing. Besides Blair is a dog. I mean, in
"Warriors" he really was flirting at an inopportune time.
<snip>
>So who's more mature here? In my book, it >ain't Jim. And lest anyone think
>I'm a Jim-hater, I like Jim, I *love* Jim, he's >a complex guy who can be
>incredibly sweet and has an essential nobility >and overdeveloped sense of
>responsibility that are admirable, but man, he >can be such a jerk when he
>sets out to be!
>
>Wolfguide
>
>
Yes, I agree Jim can be a major jerk and Blair has helped him to move away from
that. But immature, well every guy I've ever known is always slightly immature
(no offense to the guys here, maybe I should make more guy friends). Jim has
his faults, big, gigantic faults but then you have to look at his past. Who
has he had that has ever really backed him up. There were a couple of
instances but those always ended badly. I just think that what you see as
conceit is actually Jim wanting (needing) someone to say, "You're important to
me, I would do anything for you because I love you." A maternal figure maybe,
or lover, or maybe even a best friend. And yeah, Blair is that (the best
friend that is) but is it any wonder that Jim flounders sometimes. What basis
for comparison does he have.
Zenia, who should probably take a cold shower or eat some chocolate or
something.
ZAguilera
>Jim bursting into tears...hmmm...well, he >wouldn't *burst* into tears, but
>I'm sure I can write him crying >somehow...(like, right after the "to be
>continued" in Sen2...mmmm, can't wait to get >home and watch that
>my-favorite-scene one more time, happy in >the assurance that the guppy will
>return...)
>
>XmagicalX
>done the midterms, starting fall break, and I'm feeling muuuuuuuch better!!!
Spoilers for Warriors:
Hey, you never know, we get newbies all the time.
Well he's almost done it though. Remember in Warriors when Incacha died. You
could see it in his eyes, he wanted to cry.
Zenia, who remembers feeling pain whenever Mulder cries and would like it much
better if Jim didn't.
REDSOPRA1
>always the case. He overbooks and obfuscates and apparently has a string of
>girlfriends, but he loved Maya, who broke his heart, and he displayed a
>commendable maturity in his relationship with Katie in Neighborhood Watch.
Oh, and don't forget how Blair refrained from taking advantage of the
situation with Maya when she was seducing him with that weird pastry
(remember that strange, mis-shapen thing?) in "Love and Guns." She was ready
and willing, but he was honorable enough not to take her virginity under those
circumstances. Jim, on the other hand only fought with his conscience briefly
before hopping in the bed with Lila, who had told him that she was engaged to
marry another man. Granted, the woman jumped *his* bones, but still... Oh
well, these two situations are probably apples and oranges; just thought, as
long as we're drawing comparisons, this might be an interesting one to
consider.
Regarding Blair and his puppy-dog eyes: I have seen this term in countless
fanfics and finally saw an actual reference to it in canon when I got my tape
of "Deep Water." I'm pretty sure it was "Deep Water." Anyway, Blair and Jim
are in the truck and Blair keeps giving Jim these concerned looks and Jim
finally says something about Blair looking like somebody's lost puppy or
something. (I'm working on memory here, guys). I think it's interesting that,
in fanfic the puppy dog eyes are always used when Blair's trying to plead and
beg and get sympathy. In canon, the sad puppy dog eyes were his response to
his friend's trouble. Had nothing at all to do with whining.
Oh, one more thing. XmagicalX, I want to cast my vote for the sexiest Blair in
glasses scene. Check out the scene in the beginning of "Breaking Ground" where
Jim and Blair are in the living room, Blair's studying and Jim is watching TV
with the sound way low. When Blair looks up and the TV, he just looks so darn
*handsome* in those wire-rimmed specs. Oh, lawsy!!! What a lovely boy.
Red Soprano
Dawn
> Zenia wrote...
> >Again, I don't see that. Okay that "Short-Eyes" thing was a little cruel
> but I
> >normally discount all the stuff Jim did in the first episode. Jim didn't
> know
> >him, did have any reason to like him. As for "Junior" and "table legs"
> >comments that's just guy teasing.
>
> I have to say that I completely agree with this. Guys will call each other
> nasty names, and play nasty tricks on each other all the time, and that is
> with best friends!
>
> I think that sometimes we females forget that some of that guy stuff just
> doesn't translate the same way for us as it does for men. --carbook
I agree, though I'll say that it ain't just guys :-) I do the same thing with my
brother, and vice versa. I'll even do it with SOME of my female friends (though
very few). I do notice that women are, in general, more sensitive than guys. I
have more of a "guy" sense of humor, I think, though that's sexist and, being
that I went to a women's school, is something I probably shouldn't say (being
PC, and all) *grin* But it's true, I can 'insult' a guy and, for the most part,
he'll just come back with some biting remark or a 'Ha Ha'. However, I've gotten
in trouble with a few women friends who actually thought I was serious. I think
it has to do with self-esteem (not that guys don't have their insecurities, and,
believe me, you touch on the wrong thing and ... woa!) :-) But, in general, a
woman will have a lower self image than a man, and, as such, "insulting"
comments that are only meant as signs of affection (friendly teasing) are taken
more seriously by women.
Okay, why did I go off on this tangent? *grin* The point being, I don't see
Jim's comments as rude. I see his actions, a lot of the times, as being 'rude'
or the way he'll 'snap' at Blair or call him an 'idiot', but not the joking
comments. But then, I don't think Jim really gets all concerned about whether or
not he acted rudely. It just doesn't seem to be a factor to him :-)
Now, as for the 'table leg' comment 1) I didn't see anything wrong with Blair's
flirting. It wasn't serious. She was engaged, and she was an old friend. He was
just waiting for Jim. 2) When Blair WAS on the phone with her and Jim made the
table leg comment again, that's when it actually hurt Blair. I think it was
pretty evident from his expression. So, yeah, he was getting off-track with the
conversation, but, hell, at that point it wasn't flirting... just old friends.
Don't tell me if Jim was talking to some old army buddy he might not have
diverted on an old "remember when" story.
-Dawn-
ek...@arctos.bowdoin.edu
> XmagX said:
> >Jim bursting into tears...hmmm...well, he >wouldn't *burst* into tears, but
> >I'm sure I can write him crying >somehow...(like, right after the "to be
> >continued" in Sen2...mmmm, can't wait to get >home and watch that
> >my-favorite-scene one more time, happy in >the assurance that the guppy will
> >return...)
> Spoilers for Warriors:
>
> Hey, you never know, we get newbies all the time.
>
> Well he's almost done it though. Remember in Warriors when Incacha died. You
> could see it in his eyes, he wanted to cry.
>
> Zenia, who remembers feeling pain whenever Mulder cries and would like it much
> better if Jim didn't.
>
That's true, how could I have forgotten the Warriors scene? another of my
all-time faves along w/ the end of Sen2...
Except that I *like* Mulder in tears, as long as they feel like real ones and
not overdone...near the end of One Breath, when he returns from Scully's bed
believing she's going to die by morning, and his apartment is trashed because
the men responsible came when he was gone and he missed his chance to exact
revenge...ahhhh, one of my favorite scenes of anything! then there's the one
in End Game...er, my apologies for the monologue there, got a few X-phile
tendencies remaining that sneak out at the oddest times... ;)
the fact is, I kinda have this thing when the strong hero-man breaks down
because something so terrible has happening to his partner, wonderful proof of
relationships there...
XmagicalX, confessed AnstLover and proud of it! =)
EC Therapy
ertainly is, at times.
>
> Quick aside --- the name-calling thing? That, IMHO, is a guy thing. I have 4
> brothers who live to create uniquely new names for each other, and me. It seems
> to me more an 'acceptable form' of showing affection among the male half of the
> species. Kind of like punching a girl in the arm when they are really young...
> just to show they care. Men have not exactly been encouraged in western culture
> to touch or hug or verbally show affection with other men. But, I digress.
>
My best friends since grade school have mostly been guys. I have
noticed that males tend to insult those who are closest to them. It was
kind of a sign that you were accepted by them. If a guy didn't care
about you one way or another, or wasn't comfortable with you, he
wouldn't slam you. But if he was comfortable hanging around you he'd do
the mild insult. Really heavy slams tend to be reserved for best
friends or worst enemies.
Most of the time, insults done to a person's face mean friendship,
insults done behind their back mean dislike. Admittedly some guys are
ass enough to slam a person they dislike to their face-- but thats a
sign of immaturity, really. Most guys know that it will only make them
look bad, especially to women.
Ah, well, I think I have rambled on enough... doggone it, didn't I say I
was gonna post again on so little sleep??
Angie T.
(who really did get enough sleep last night, but the day from hell makes
last night seem so far away...)
EC Therapy
> He doesn't attempt to subordinate Blair, IMHO. When Blair is with Jim
> while doing police work, Blair should follow orders. Period. Chain of command.
> Safety of himself and others around him. We don't have to go into the reasons.
> I don't think it's a matter of trust... not personal trust anyway... and Jim
> shouldn't make it one. But, it's a matter of authority and respect.
Ok this is something I feel I can comment on with some authority. Those
who have not been in the military may have difficulty understanding what
the chain of command means in practice. It means that you can be best
buddies and roomies with a guy off duty, go drinking with him and hold
his head up when he gets sick afterwards, even be very familiar with the
guy's disgusting habits -- off duty. On duty, you must respect his rank
and if he is your supervisor (it isn't uncommon) that means obeying his
orders and respecting his experience.
When in the Army, my husband and I knew a guy we could sit and BS with
for hours. We had alot of interests in common and the guy had a wild
sense of humor. But on duty, I called him "Sir" and treated him with
all the repect I gave any other commander I have ever had. (I was his
company clerk for a while) I never took advantage of his familiarity by
calling him by his first name or just his last name while on duty.
Point is (and I know I have one here, somewhere) you have to respect a
person's rank and experience no matter what your personal experience
with them is. This can work both ways. I have had supervisors and
commanders that I despised personally but treated with respect and
civility at all times (of course, I didn't socialize with them).
Military personnel react as they are trained to, regardless of personal
feelings and problems. The drill is "There is a job to do and there are
no good excuses for not getting it done."
An example of this in Jim's case (getting this back on topic, sorta) is
in the second episode involving Maya (name escapes me). Jim is boarding
the boat, he knows Maya is up ahead being held by the bad guy. He sees
Blair laying on the deck, checks his pulse to make sure his isn't
seriously wounded then *goes on to do his job*. He doesn't stay to hold
Blair's hand, do a thorough exam or worry about if his Guide has a
headache. Blair was breathing and had a pulse, so on he went. This is
why Jim often appears to be unfeeling when the excrement hits the
rotating blade. It isn't that he doesn't *care* about the others
involved (hostages, bystanders, Blair, etc) only that he has to stay
focused on what HAS to be done.
The military habit is also behind the whole last name thing. It isn't
uncommon in military units to be buddies with guys and not know their
first names... it becomes habit to refer to people by last names. It is
not necessarily a distancing thing. Its just that you only call your
good friends by their first names.
Enough for now I guess... I should have quit with the last post I think.
Angie T.
(who now misses her buds from Berlin and wonders where they all are... )
Shelley Knepley
Sorka wrote
>One of the things I've noticed about the way Jim fights is that he doesn't
>talk. He is what I term a silent/deadly fighter. Which if you think about
it
>is often worse for the opponent because they have no way of gaging Jim's
>mental state.
>
>This style is a product of his training in Special Forces/Covert Ops.
>To take out the enemy as quickly and quietly as possible.
>
>Which brings up another point, Jim often looks to be on the loosing end of
a
>fight when trying to apprehend a suspect. That isn't quite the case, since
he
>was trained to *kill* first, he has to back off of his training.
>
>In Survival, the fight with Quinn, I think if Simon hadn't been there,
Quinn
>would be sitting at the bottom of that mine shaft right now.
>
>What do you think?
I would like to think Jim's own moral code would have stopped him without
interference from Simon. But the man did have plenty of justification for
if his hand "accidently" slipped.
Shelley
Sally
>
>
> Isn't it even more fun this way, though? we're so glad to have you, now that
> we know you're out there! =)
>
Thanks. I'm really enjoying the discussions. And I thought we'd have
nothing to talk about with TS off the air :).
And my pick for best Blair with glasses scene has got to be the opening
scene of Crossroads, when Blair think's Jim's going to take him
fishing. He just looked so cute in that whole scene, especially when he
was describing Simon's fishing fly :).
Sally
Sally
Sorka
>
>The military habit is also behind the whole last name thing. It isn't
>uncommon in military units to be buddies with guys and not know their
>first names... it becomes habit to refer to people by last names. It is
>not necessarily a distancing thing. Its just that you only call your
>good friends by their first names.
Thank you for pointing this out. I was pretty sure the last name thing was
a military hold over, but I couldn't say for certain. Also this point brings
up the difference between Blair and Jim in the way they relate the Simon.
Jim refers to Simon as Captian or Sir on the job. If he is trying to stress a
point or they are acting in a social manner, he will call him Simon.
Blair OTOH almost always uses the familiar when talking about or to
Simon.
The fact that Jim will call Blair by his first name in stressful situations is
a sign of how much he cares about him. Which brings up the point of what
being rather dependant on Blair must do to him. Here we have a solider that
was in Special Forces, Covert Ops, and was the laison to the CIA. And he is
forced to trust a 'neo-hippy-witchdoctoe-punk'. How many people with that kind
of background would so easily accept that?
>
>Enough for now I guess... I should have quit with the last post I think.
No no tell us more, understanding the military way of doing things is a
link to how Jim acts towards most people.
>
>Angie T.
>(who now misses her buds from Berlin and wonders where they all are... )
Sorka
ZAguilera
>all-time faves along w/ the end of Sen2...
Ah yes, lovely scenes weren't they?
<snipping X-File gushing, hey it happens to me too>
>the fact is, I kinda have this thing when the strong hero-man breaks down
>because something so terrible has >happening to his partner, wonderful proof
>of
>relationships there...
>
>XmagicalX, confessed AnstLover and proud of it! =)
>
>
No, sorry I just dont wanna see it. I mean I loved the Mulder crying scenes
too. But unfortunately, the first thought that comes through my mind when I
see a guy cry, on or off the screen (not counting when I go to funerals) is
"wimp". Then,as in Mulder's case, "Isn't it sweet." But that wimp comment is
always there. Course I have an aversion to tears that most of my friends find
strange.
Zenia
ZAguilera
>> doesn't translate the same way for us as it does for men. --carbook
>
<snip>
>Okay, why did I go off on this tangent? >*grin* The point being, I don't see
>Jim's comments as rude. I see his actions, a >lot of the times, as being
'rude'
>or the way he'll 'snap' at Blair or call him an >'idiot', but not the joking
>comments. But then, I don't think Jim really >gets all concerned about whether
>or not he acted rudely. It just doesn't seem to >be a factor to him :-)
Really, what sort of actions? As for the 'idiot' comment I agree that was
rude. When he said that I flinched and thought "Jim you a- -." But Jim's
actions in S2 were due to *her*.
>Now, as for the 'table leg' comment 1) I didn't >see anything wrong with
Blair's
>flirting. It wasn't serious. She was engaged, >and she was an old friend. He
was
>just waiting for Jim. 2) When Blair WAS on the phone with her and Jim made
>the table leg comment again, that's when it >actually hurt Blair. I think it
was
>pretty evident from his expression. So, yeah, >he was getting off-track with
the
>conversation, but, hell, at that point it wasn't >flirting... just old
friends.
>Don't tell me if Jim was talking to some old >army buddy he might not have
>diverted on an old "remember when" story.
>
>-Dawn-
>
>
>
I think the first 'table leg' comment was just a joke and Blair took it as
that. Just teasing between two friends. The second time seemed more to me
like a 'there he goes again.' I mean, here she had potential information that
could help out Jim's Chopec friends out of a murder rap. As for Jim diverting
into an "remember when" story, I don't think he would. Mainly cuz he didn't in
the episode "Secrets." When he found out it wasn't a social call he was very
serious.
Zenia
Shelley Knepley
>Yatokahc wrote:
>> Quick aside --- the name-calling thing? That, IMHO, is a guy thing. I
have 4
>> brothers who live to create uniquely new names for each other, and me. It
seems
>> to me more an 'acceptable form' of showing affection among the male half
of the
>> species. Kind of like punching a girl in the arm when they are really
young...
>> just to show they care. Men have not exactly been encouraged in western
culture
>> to touch or hug or verbally show affection with other men. But, I
digress.
>>
I"ll have to agree with this one. I don't have any brothers but most of my
friends growing up were boys. The name calling was almost a game really to
see who could come up with the best put downs. No one took it seriously, it
was just something bored kids would do.
I am curious if any guys read this ng and can enlighten us gals if we have
hit the mark with this one. After all the guys are the target audience for
the show :+)
Shelley
Sally
>
>
> Regarding Blair and his puppy-dog eyes: I have seen this term in countless
> fanfics and finally saw an actual reference to it in canon when I got my tape
> of "Deep Water." I'm pretty sure it was "Deep Water." Anyway, Blair and Jim
> are in the truck and Blair keeps giving Jim these concerned looks and Jim
> finally says something about Blair looking like somebody's lost puppy or
> something. (I'm working on memory here, guys). I think it's interesting that,
> in fanfic the puppy dog eyes are always used when Blair's trying to plead and
> beg and get sympathy. In canon, the sad puppy dog eyes were his response to
> his friend's trouble. Had nothing at all to do with whining.
>
I think the puppy-dog eyes is just something the fanfic writers took and
ran with, because they liked the concept; just like the Blessed
Protector thing, which was only mentioned once and I think was meant
more as a joke. Another is the idea of Blair bringing Jim out of a
zone-out. I may be wrong, but I don't remember that ever happening in
the show. The only time I remember Jim zoning was in the pilot, and the
only reason he came out of it was because Blair knocked him to the
ground.
Sally
ZAguilera
>ran with, because they liked the concept; just like the Blessed
>Protector thing, which was only mentioned once and I think was meant
>more as a joke. Another is the idea of Blair bringing Jim out of a
>zone-out. I may be wrong, but I don't remember that ever happening in
>the show. The only time I remember Jim zoning was in the pilot, and the
>only reason he came out of it was because Blair knocked him to the
>ground.
>
>Sally
Gotta love those fanfic writers. But there is one other time Blair brought Jim
out of a zone, and it was in Rogue (the Lee Brackett thing). Though you know
what, I think the reason why Blair doesn't bring Jim out of a zone all the time
is cuz Jim doesn't zone out very often.
Zenia
Blair Kennedy
Sally wrote in message <3628EE...@worldnet.att.net>...
>I think the puppy-dog eyes is just something the fanfic writers took and
>ran with, because they liked the concept; just like the Blessed
>Protector thing, which was only mentioned once and I think was meant
>more as a joke. Another is the idea of Blair bringing Jim out of a
>zone-out. I may be wrong, but I don't remember that ever happening in
>the show. The only time I remember Jim zoning was in the pilot, and the
>only reason he came out of it was because Blair knocked him to the
>ground.
The fanfic writers are responsible for a lot of things people familiar with
the series only from the fanfic will take as being canon. Blessed Protector,
puppy dog eyes, Guide, that infamous hot water tank and that
everybody-wants-one-but-no one-knows-where-to-get-it Cascade PD sweatshirt.
As for zoning, more recently it happened in "Neighborhood Watch." He was
zoning on the sounds of the neighbourhood while Megan was talking to him.
--Blair Kennedy
Sally
>
> Gotta love those fanfic writers. But there is one other time Blair brought Jim
> out of a zone, and it was in Rogue (the Lee Brackett thing). Though you know
> what, I think the reason why Blair doesn't bring Jim out of a zone all the time
> is cuz Jim doesn't zone out very often.
>
It just so happens that's the only TS episode I've never seen. Somehow
I managed to miss both the first airing and the rerun. Now Blair's job
seems to be mostly helping Jim focus and control his senses when they
get out of whack. It also seems as though Jim has to be reminded
sometimes by Blair how to use his senses. Almost as if he sometimes
forgets that he has them, or he tries to use the wrong sense in the
wrong situation.
Sally
Dawn
puppy look" = deep water. "Guide" = Rogue. As for the hot water tank and sweat
shirt, don't think those were ever in eps. Another "fanfiction" thing is Blair's
intense aversion to hospitals. I have never seen him specifically object to
going to a hospital in the show, but then, the two times I can remember him
going to one he was unconscious at the time. However, in fanfiction, the guy can
have a concussion and broken ribs and still object to the hospital <grin>
-Dawn-
Shelley Knepley
Blair Kennedy wrote
>
>The fanfic writers are responsible for a lot of things people familiar with
>the series only from the fanfic will take as being canon. Blessed
Protector,
>puppy dog eyes, Guide, that infamous hot water tank and that
>everybody-wants-one-but-no one-knows-where-to-get-it Cascade PD sweatshirt.
>
sweatshirt is one example. Or maybe tap into all us fanfic lovers and sell
some publishing rights and get stories to the mass market (before anyone
snorts at this one, may I remind you, there was a series of books for Earth
2) Maybe a series of trading cards or repackage the episodes and sell those
ala X-Files.
Just a thought
Shelley
who hasn't seen much of the first season and really wants to find one of
those Cascade PD sweatshirts, in dark blue of course :+)
SierraBJ
>thinks of Jim as a cold, heartless, troll while Blair is some perfect
>demi-god.
> And that is just not the case.
Delurking to say...you're right! They are both perfect demi-gods <g>
Dana, who is right this instant looking at one PERFECT chest while watching The
Rig
Dana
"The only problem with Italian food is that 2 or 3 days later, you're hungry
again."
My fanfiction page: http://members.aol.com/sierrabj/sentinel.html
SierraBJ
>too. But unfortunately, the first thought that comes through my mind when I
>see a guy cry, on or off the screen (not counting when I go to funerals) is
>"wimp". Then,as in Mulder's case, "Isn't it sweet." But that wimp comment
>is
>always there. Course I have an aversion to tears that most of my friends
>find
>strange.
I guess I come from a family of strong men. I've seen my father cry twice
(once at his father's funeral and the other at my wedding!) and my brother cry
once (the day he went to look at engagement rings only to have his girlfriend
tell him that very same night that she didn't love him anymore - sayonara,
dude!). Verge of tears, a tear here and there - those I can deal with. Men
bursting into tears (women, too, actually) just makes me nervous.
SierraBJ
>see who could come up with the best put downs. No one took it seriously, it
>was just something bored kids would do.
It's something grown men do, too! My dh works in a field that is predominately
male (I get overwhelmed by the testosterone levels when daughter and I go out
on gigs with him!) I am constantly amazed with the innovative names they come
up with for each other. And my dh's closest friend? Well, his fiance and I
agree that they act more like an old married couple than he and I do (9 year
<g>). You should HEAR the names they come up with for each other!
ZAguilera
TheRig
>Dana
Nooooo! God, I'm drooling now. Never, never, write something like that
without putting a warning on it. Something like, "Warning, may cause excessive
salivation and/or heart palpitations."
Zenia,who thinks she's gonna go watch "The Rig" now
SierraBJ
>intense aversion to hospitals. I have never seen him specifically object to
>going to a hospital in the show, but then, the two times I can remember him
>going to one he was unconscious at the time. However, in fanfiction, the guy
>can
>have a concussion and broken ribs and still object to the hospital <grin>
As a certified hospital hater - believe me, you can be in incredible pain and
still rather take some Advil than go to the hospital. Thank God for orthopedic
specialists who are also friends of the family!
Sally
> LOL! I guess we just disagree... on the maturity thing. I happen to agree with
> you on the Jim thing. I *love* Jim too. He is complex and all those other
> things too. So is Blair... just in different aspects of his character.
>
> The funniest part of all of this is that of the two characters, I like Blair
> far more than I like Jim!
>
While Jim may seem self-centered at times, I believe there are
sacrifices that he has made for Blair. He's pretty much given up any
privacy he had before, and that's a difficult thing to do when one is
used to living and working alone; and he's let himself be treated like a
'lab rat' to use Simon's words.
I think they both have their good points and bad. They both can be
selfish at times. It's just part of being human.
Althought I love Jim and I'm closer to his age than Blair's, I'm a
bigger fan of Blair only because I relate better to science nerds than I
do to cops or ex-military types.
Sally
kadru
I wondered the same thing. I would love to have a complete set of the
episodes, packaged like the Highlander set. And I'd pay big bucks for
it, too!
Then again, it amazes me when companies who's main raison d'etre is to
make money just totally decide not to. There should be corporate
darwin awards for this!
K
Dawn
made some Methos shirts ;-) And nobody came in with the copyright/trademark
police. As a matter of fact, I don't think "Cascade PD" is protected. I mean,
there's gotta be a city somewhere named Cascade, right? <evil grin>
So, if there's enough interest, someone can go down to one of those shirt shops
and order sweatshirts with Cascade PD on them. ORder would have to be paid in
advance, like we did for the Methos ones, and that way, no one is out of pocket.
Interest?
-Dawn-
Shelley Knepley wrote:
> Blair Kennedy wrote
> >
> >The fanfic writers are responsible for a lot of things people familiar with
> >the series only from the fanfic will take as being canon. Blessed
> Protector,
> >puppy dog eyes, Guide, that infamous hot water tank and that
> >everybody-wants-one-but-no one-knows-where-to-get-it Cascade PD sweatshirt.
> >
> I have often wondered why Paramount or Pet Fly doesn't market the show. The
> sweatshirt is one example. Or maybe tap into all us fanfic lovers and sell
> some publishing rights and get stories to the mass market (before anyone
> snorts at this one, may I remind you, there was a series of books for Earth
> 2) Maybe a series of trading cards or repackage the episodes and sell those
> ala X-Files.
>
> Just a thought
>
> Shelley
> who hasn't seen much of the first season and really wants to find one of
> those Cascade PD sweatshirts, in dark blue of course :+)
--
-Dawn-
The Chako Rescue Assoc. for the American Pit Bull Terrier
http://home.att.net/~DawnCapp
Visit our site for lots of great dog books!
Sorka
>
>
>I have often wondered why Paramount or Pet Fly doesn't market the show. The
>sweatshirt is one example. Or maybe tap into all us fanfic lovers and sell
>some publishing rights and get stories to the mass market (before anyone
>snorts at this one, may I remind you, there was a series of books for Earth
>2) Maybe a series of trading cards or repackage the episodes and sell those
>ala X-Files.
>
mid-season mess. What the guy said was that they were leery about marketing
anything for TS because when they had gotten Viper on NBC they had spent a lot
of money on marketing. Toys, action figures, t-shirts, the whole nine yards,
and they got burned badly by the lack of interest.
I can understand them not wanting to shell out a million bucks to create and
market stuff that hardly anyone is going to buy.
Sorka
Blair Kennedy
Dawn wrote in message <362A04E5...@bigfoot.com>...
>You know, we could make the Cascade PD sweatshirts. We did it on the HL
group -
>made some Methos shirts ;-) And nobody came in with the copyright/trademark
>police. As a matter of fact, I don't think "Cascade PD" is protected. I
mean,
>there's gotta be a city somewhere named Cascade, right? <evil grin>
While I doubt they could copyright Cascade PD, they probably do have the CPD
logo copyrighted. I'd want that on the shirt somewhere.
>
>So, if there's enough interest, someone can go down to one of those shirt
shops
>and order sweatshirts with Cascade PD on them. ORder would have to be paid
in
>advance, like we did for the Methos ones, and that way, no one is out of
pocket.
>
>Interest?
Recently, a girl wrote to me wanting to know what that shirt looked like. It
broke her heart when I told her it didn't exist. I thought she was going to
use it in a fanfic or something. However, she was going to make one for a
friend of hers. So, I sent her the logo to use as she would. I think we
could probably get away with it so long as no one is making a profit, much
the same way we do with tapes.
--Blair Kennedy