Story warnings

[Sabrah n'haRaven]

Bleh. I'm going to complain a little here, for no other reason than that I
need to get it off my chest and the bad taste out of my mouth. That and the
fact that Dawn's, Barbara's, and a few other people's messages are getting
lost before they get to my server, so I can't really participate in the other
discussions taking place right now. :-)

Polite fanfiction culture includes story warnings, it seems, for just about
everything. I don't mind that--it helps me determine if a story is what I'm
in the mood for at the moment, and I've known people who needed the warnings
to avoid being squicked.
And we have to apply slash warnings even when the story is completely G-rated
and the relationship barely mentioned, or people have conniption fits. I can
deal with that (not the conniption fits, but using the warnings). What I want
to know is why can't the gen writers use het warnings too?

I mean, het isn't the same thing as gen. I like gen fiction. I read gen
fiction. The show is gen, for pity's sake, (with the occasional exception of
het episodes like Inside Man)--and I love it. I also like slash, because I
think the relationship makes sense between Jim and Blair. I prefer not to
read fiction that involves either of them with original characters--of any
gender--because that's not what I watch the show for and it's not what I read
fanfiction for. And if someone writes a story involving an original male
character, fandom culture demands that they slap both a slash warning and an
original character warning on it, and the writers comply and everyone is
happy. Then someone else goes and has Jim or Blair planning marriage with an
original female character...and there's no warnings given at all.

I just spent the last few hours reading the latest stories by a gen writer I
really like. She usually does good stuff and has done some really great
stuff. I don't have time to read all the fiction out there (and wouldn't want
to read it all anyway), but she was a writer I thought I could trust to be
well worth my time. Then suddenly, in the last few stories both Jim and Blair
are thinking marriage to original characters and development of those
relationships are taking up large sections of the stories. On the one hand,
I'm disgusted with the double standards applied to gen and slash fiction, that
gay non-canon relationships require a warning, no matter how G-rated or how
inconsequential, while het non-canon relationships don't, even when they're
developed into romances that are going to have a major impact on The Guys'
lives. At the same time, I'm frustrated that reading this writer's work has
gone from being a 20/80 chance in favor of wonderful smarm to 50/50 odds of
being smarm or a het romance, with no way of knowing which it will be until
I'm halfway through the story. And I'm disappointed that what was a really
good smarmy series with good exploration of the secondary characters and a
take on the Guys compatible with my own has taken a sharp turn into something
I've no interest in reading. If there were warnings on the stories, well, at
least then, I could skip the ones that focus on the romances and still read
the smarmy or plot-oriented ones.

I mean, even the _show_ gives us warnings, in the promos, if there's going to
be a het relationship in the next episode that's more than casual flirting
with the BoTW. Why can't the fanfic writers do the same?

Bleh.

Bagheera

--
"A wild patience has taken us this far..." - Adrienne Rich
Sabrah n'haRaven Bagheera Sapphire-Eyed jou...@his.com
Alt.tv.sentinel FAQ --> http://www.his.com/journey/ats/

[Caitlin Mackay Shaw]

Sabrah n'haRaven (jou...@his.com) wrote
in article <35B0086E...@his.com>:

>Polite fanfiction culture includes story warnings, it seems, for just about
>everything.

> [...] What I want

>to know is why can't the gen writers use het warnings too?

i hear that. definitely. usually i can just put the story down and
walk away, but i know the frustration of finding that a favorite author
has finished something new, getting into it, and then finding out that
it's something i either can't finish or will be depressed for days after
finishing anyway. (that last is about death stories, not het stories --
i don't particularly like het stories, but they're not *that* drastically
depressing. *grin*)

>I just spent the last few hours reading the latest stories by a gen writer I
>really like.

from a mailing list or off a website? in my experience, it's stories
posted on the web which are "dangerous" that way, since people often
strip off the headers when converting something to html. the archives
for sxf, for example, remove the "pairing" header (which is sometimes
the only place a writer will think they need to say something like
"J/m"). of course, i don't read much gen, so i'm not as familiar with
the conventions for placing warnings like "J/f"...

>Why can't the fanfic writers do the same?

'twould be polite. (of course, after the recent heated discussion --
not *quite* a flamewar -- on senad about feedback, i do wish to add that
fanfic writers don't *have* to do anything. then again, we don't *have*
to read anything. it's all just a culture of politeness... pc, if you
will. being nice to strangers is a good thing, but unenforcable.)

--cmshaw

[StarGem]

Sabrah n'haRaven wrote:
>
> Bleh. I'm going to complain a little here, for no other reason than that I
> need to get it off my chest and the bad taste out of my mouth. That and the
> fact that Dawn's, Barbara's, and a few other people's messages are getting
> lost before they get to my server, so I can't really participate in the other
> discussions taking place right now. :-)

I'm sorry that some of the posts aren't getting to your server, you
missing a whole lot. <g>

>
> Polite fanfiction culture includes story warnings, it seems, for just about

> everything. I don't mind that--it helps me determine if a story is what I'm
> in the mood for at the moment, and I've known people who needed the warnings
> to avoid being squicked.
> And we have to apply slash warnings even when the story is completely G-rated
> and the relationship barely mentioned, or people have conniption fits. I can

> deal with that (not the conniption fits, but using the warnings). What I want

> to know is why can't the gen writers use het warnings too?

That's something I would want to know as well. As well as any other fan
of both the show and fanfiction.

>
> I mean, het isn't the same thing as gen. I like gen fiction. I read gen
> fiction. The show is gen, for pity's sake, (with the occasional exception of
> het episodes like Inside Man)--and I love it. I also like slash, because I
> think the relationship makes sense between Jim and Blair. I prefer not to
> read fiction that involves either of them with original characters--of any
> gender--because that's not what I watch the show for and it's not what I read
> fanfiction for. And if someone writes a story involving an original male
> character, fandom culture demands that they slap both a slash warning and an
> original character warning on it, and the writers comply and everyone is
> happy. Then someone else goes and has Jim or Blair planning marriage with an
> original female character...and there's no warnings given at all.

I guess the authors only think the warnings apply only if the story is
SLASH since most people take offense at gay/lesbian affairs.

>
> I just spent the last few hours reading the latest stories by a gen writer I

> really like. She usually does good stuff and has done some really great
> stuff. I don't have time to read all the fiction out there (and wouldn't want
> to read it all anyway), but she was a writer I thought I could trust to be
> well worth my time. Then suddenly, in the last few stories both Jim and Blair
> are thinking marriage to original characters and development of those
> relationships are taking up large sections of the stories. On the one hand,
> I'm disgusted with the double standards applied to gen and slash fiction, that
> gay non-canon relationships require a warning, no matter how G-rated or how
> inconsequential, while het non-canon relationships don't, even when they're
> developed into romances that are going to have a major impact on The Guys'
> lives. At the same time, I'm frustrated that reading this writer's work has
> gone from being a 20/80 chance in favor of wonderful smarm to 50/50 odds of
> being smarm or a het romance, with no way of knowing which it will be until
> I'm halfway through the story. And I'm disappointed that what was a really
> good smarmy series with good exploration of the secondary characters and a
> take on the Guys compatible with my own has taken a sharp turn into something
> I've no interest in reading. If there were warnings on the stories, well, at
> least then, I could skip the ones that focus on the romances and still read
> the smarmy or plot-oriented ones.

I think I know of the author, and I like her stories as well, but they
are COMPLETELY different then anything on the show. Trust me, I've been
reading them since she first started writing them. And she is quite
good with her material.

I also agree about the warnings, all authors should have them, whether
or not is is slash.

>
> I mean, even the _show_ gives us warnings, in the promos, if there's going to
> be a het relationship in the next episode that's more than casual flirting

> with the BoTW. Why can't the fanfic writers do the same?

Gee, why can't they? Oh well, I keep asking your questions back.
Sorry.

Now look at what you've started? <g>

Star
sta...@mail.fwi.com

[StarGem]

Caitlin Mackay Shaw wrote:
>
> Sabrah n'haRaven (jou...@his.com) wrote
> in article <35B0086E...@his.com>:
>

> >Polite fanfiction culture includes story warnings, it seems, for just about
> >everything.

> > [...] What I want

> >to know is why can't the gen writers use het warnings too?
>

> i hear that. definitely. usually i can just put the story down and
> walk away, but i know the frustration of finding that a favorite author
> has finished something new, getting into it, and then finding out that
> it's something i either can't finish or will be depressed for days after
> finishing anyway. (that last is about death stories, not het stories --
> i don't particularly like het stories, but they're not *that* drastically
> depressing. *grin*)

Well, in that case, neither are slash stories. And yes, I find that
death stories are even MORE depressing than any other kind of story that
I have read.

And I've read a lot of stories in the Guide Posts archive.

>
> >I just spent the last few hours reading the latest stories by a gen writer I
> >really like.
>

> from a mailing list or off a website? in my experience, it's stories
> posted on the web which are "dangerous" that way, since people often
> strip off the headers when converting something to html. the archives
> for sxf, for example, remove the "pairing" header (which is sometimes
> the only place a writer will think they need to say something like
> "J/m"). of course, i don't read much gen, so i'm not as familiar with
> the conventions for placing warnings like "J/f"...
>

> >Why can't the fanfic writers do the same?
>

> 'twould be polite. (of course, after the recent heated discussion --
> not *quite* a flamewar -- on senad about feedback, i do wish to add that
> fanfic writers don't *have* to do anything. then again, we don't *have*
> to read anything. it's all just a culture of politeness... pc, if you
> will. being nice to strangers is a good thing, but unenforcable.)

That's true, being kind is good, but not all that enforcable when you
get right down to the thick of things.

Star
sta...@mail.fwi.com
>
> --cmshaw

[Robert Ressman]

> > And we have to apply slash warnings even when the story is completely G-rated
> > and the relationship barely mentioned, or people have conniption fits. I can

> > deal with that (not the conniption fits, but using the warnings). What I want

> > to know is why can't the gen writers use het warnings too?

Maybe writers should take a page from the major fanfic archive for X-Files. The
gossamer project. They not only give it a rating, the tell you if it is
romance/comedy/angst/friendship/etc. If it is a relationship, *SLASH OR NOT* they
tell you who it is between. Ex: M/S romance (Mulder/Scully romance). Rated G: (They
have a candle-light dinner) or NC-17 (use your imagination). Is that what you're
looking for?
-Wolfwind.

[ek...@arctos.bowdoin.edu]

Not to throw oil on the fire or annathing, but I think at least some writers
don't put warnings 'cuz they don't want to spoil things. Warning on basic
things like slash vs het--that's long-standard practice, as it's well
understood that some people really have strong aversions to one or the
other...

Well, yes, some folx have strong aversions to death stories too, but if you
put a death story warning on a fic, sometimes you're giving away the ending.
And to warn about romances and whatnot...well, X-files fic does have an
elaborate categorization system, but I myself have ducked out of it a few
times, having stories which are sort of MSR but I don't want to list them as
such because that's not really the point (actually I run into more troubles
'cuz most of my stuff isn't MSR--but that's another story, as I was
saying...what was I saying?)

If I know the gen writer referred to, I don't think she was seeing those
stories as romance, as she's got a decidedly unique view on the whole
Sentinel thing anyway. She's often enough just writing about life, of which
love, romance, marriage is a definite part for most people. And which
doesn't come with warnings...

Warnings as far as gen vs slash, those are understandable. Ratings like G,
R, NC-17, those are quite good, even necessary to avoid insulting people and
exposing them to what they'd rathr avoid. But imho warnings can be taken too
far, I mean, if a fic is labeled WARNING Blair-napping, minor char serious
injury, major char minor injury, villain killed in a sort-of-but-not-too
graphic manner, secondary villain escapes for a sequel...well, what's the
point of reading the fic, when you know it all already? (don't answer that!
it was a rhetoric example! anyone who invokes "Beach" will be steadfastedly
ignored!)

Just random thoughts, as always, and late-night ones too, how much sense will
they make in the morning, I wonder?
XmagicalX

Speaking of warnings, should I post my latest...well, masterpiece is *hardly*
the word, this thing's got a warning actually, for Blair-hurting with no good
reason whatsoever...

-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum

[ek...@arctos.bowdoin.edu]

Not to throw oil on the fire or annathing, but I think at least some writers
don't put warnings 'cuz they don't want to spoil things. Warning on basic
things like slash vs het--that's long-standard practice, as it's well
understood that some people really have strong aversions to one or the
other...

Well, yes, some folx have strong aversions to death stories too, but if you
put a death story warning on a fic, sometimes you're giving away the ending.
And to warn about romances and whatnot...well, X-files fic does have an
elaborate categorization system, but I myself have ducked out of it a few
times, having stories which are sort of MSR but I don't want to list them as
such because that's not really the point (actually I run into more troubles
'cuz most of my stuff isn't MSR--but that's another story, as I was
saying...what was I saying?)

If I know the gen writer referred to, I don't think she was seeing those
stories as romance, as she's got a decidedly unique view on the whole
Sentinel thing anyway. She's often enough just writing about life, of which
love, romance, marriage is a definite part for most people. And which
doesn't come with warnings...

Warnings as far as gen vs slash, those are understandable. Ratings like G,
R, NC-17, those are quite good, even necessary to avoid insulting people and
exposing them to what they'd rathr avoid. But imho warnings can be taken too
far, I mean, if a fic is labeled WARNING Blair-napping, minor char serious
injury, major char minor injury, villain killed in a sort-of-but-not-too

graphic manner, secondary villain escapes for a sequel, and yes there is a
BOTW but she dies too...well, what's the point of reading the fic, when you

[Dawn]

ek...@arctos.bowdoin.edu wrote:

> Speaking of warnings, should I post my latest...well, masterpiece is *hardly*
> the word, this thing's got a warning actually, for Blair-hurting with no good
> reason whatsoever...

Oh yes! My absolute favorite part of Sentinel fanfiction :-)
Isn't it, like, a rule somewhere? Thou shalt not write Sentinel FanFiction
without picking on Blair? <g>
So please, please post it or e-mail it :-)
I am so fanfiction deprived!

--
-Dawn-
The Chako Rescue Assoc. for the American Pit Bull Terrier
http://home.att.net/~DawnCapp
Visit our site for lots of great dog books!

[StarGem]

I think I stated in an e-mail to you that is was, now I'm posting it to
the group.

What do the rest of you think? Is this what everybody wants?

If so, then put it up here.

Star
sta...@mail.fwi.com

[Sairobi]

Star sez:

<<I think I stated in an e-mail to you that is was, now I'm posting it to
the group.

What do the rest of you think? Is this what everybody wants?

If so, then put it up here.>>

I would be sort of iffy on that one, Star. If any of you happen to hang out on
ATXC, (Alt.tv.xfiles.creative.) you know debate pops up every other week about
ratings/summaries/categories/etc. While annoying, I can see both sides. (Which
I will graciously share...heehee.)

The up side: you actually <gasp> know what you're getting into. When I first
started reading senfic, I was more than slightly confuzzled by the lack of
categorization, much less summaries. Going thru Guide Posts is a game of luck
at this point--what's the chances of scoring a decent read if you don't even
have any recs to work off of?

But, of course, there's the not-so-sunshine-y side of the road.

With nearly mandatory summaries, (As is in the XF fanfic universe; you can only
get away with non-summarization if you're a well known writer.) you risk losing
readers afraid of the big bad label. (Example in terms of XF: Reader does not
read anything non Mulder/Scully. Reader approaches story; non MSR label. Reader
doesn't give story a chance. Writer cries. Writer stops writing fanfiction.
Writer begins drinking. Writer's wife leaves him. Writer loses custody of the
2.4 children, but retains care of family dog, Muffy. Writer contemplates the
virtues of a .38 versus a razor. See where I'm going here? <wink>) Sure,
summaries and categories help set the reader on the right track...but at times,
they can be more of a hindrance than help to the author.

I know a gal who writes wonderfully....but only deals in minor character fic.
Does she give a flying rat's ass as to what the mainstream thinks? No. But has
she been pigeonholed by labels? Yes. Consider it before going too gung-ho into
something that may not be as great as you think.

--Sairobi
Example of what you may be getting yourself into....

Standard XF Categories:
Major:
S--Story
V--Vignette
Not So Major:
X--X-File/Case File
R--Romance
A--Angst
T--Action
H--Humor
UST--Unresolved Sexual Tension
RST--Resolved Sexual Tension (As in marriage. Ewww.)
Romance:
MSR--Mulder/Scully Romance <blech>
M/O--Mulder/Other
S/O--Scully/Other
M/K--Mulder/Krycek
S/K--Scully/Krycek
M/Sk--Mulder/Skinner
S/Sk--Scully/Skinner
Sk/O--Skinner/Other
K/O--Krycek/Other
P/K(!)--Pendrell/Krycek (*Socks*!!)

And, of course, usual ratings apply.

[ek...@arctos.bowdoin.edu]

Firstly, welcome, Sairobi! haven't seen you around here I don't think? (either
that or DN is messin' with my brains again)

sai...@aol.com (Sairobi) wrote:

> I would be sort of iffy on that one, Star. If any of you happen to hang out on
> ATXC, (Alt.tv.xfiles.creative.) you know debate pops up every other week about
> ratings/summaries/categories/etc. While annoying, I can see both sides. (Which
> I will graciously share...heehee.)
>

argh! we're becoming an TXF type ng? ahhhh-- er, no offense meant, please,
it's just, atx, besides being too big, played too tough hardball for me, and
atxc had similar problems...I prefer warm & squishy netlife. Flames scare
me...hope I'm not drawing any now...sincere apologies to any and all... <:)

> The up side: you actually <gasp> know what you're getting into. When I first
> started reading senfic, I was more than slightly confuzzled by the lack of
> categorization, much less summaries. Going thru Guide Posts is a game of luck
> at this point--what's the chances of scoring a decent read if you don't even
> have any recs to work off of?
>

Amen to that! 'course they do have the recs, and if you're looking for
straight smarm you can find that just about annawhere... ;) I do wish
occasionally for summaries. Titles are not enough to go by! but OTOH I have
enough trouble trying to write summaries for my own fic...

> But, of course, there's the not-so-sunshine-y side of the road.
>
> With nearly mandatory summaries, (As is in the XF fanfic universe; you can
only
> get away with non-summarization if you're a well known writer.) you risk
losing
> readers afraid of the big bad label. (Example in terms of XF: Reader does not
> read anything non Mulder/Scully. Reader approaches story; non MSR label.
Reader
> doesn't give story a chance. Writer cries. Writer stops writing fanfiction.
> Writer begins drinking. Writer's wife leaves him. Writer loses custody of the
> 2.4 children, but retains care of family dog, Muffy. Writer contemplates the
> virtues of a .38 versus a razor. See where I'm going here? <wink>) Sure,
> summaries and categories help set the reader on the right track...but at
times,
> they can be more of a hindrance than help to the author.

Also amen to that! this wouldn't be personal, would it? I know where that's
coming from, at least--as a steadfastedly non-MSR TXF writer I think I did
lose readers along the way. It wasn't *quite* that bad though...
(sidetrack--his wife? I think I can count male fanfic writers on one
hand...and that's in TXF, I don't know any in TS, actually. It's sort of a
female profession...) And categorizing can often be a pain, when you don't
know where something fits...it's easy to say "humor" or "smarm" but then
angst/action/humor/plot tends to get a wee bit confusin'...

Concerning the categorization examples--totally accurate (but
Pendrell/Krycek? the mental picture alone is enough! ;) but I think if you
even tried to suggest that to the poor Archive Elves of Guide Posts they'd
probably come at you with their elfshot and their bows and arrows and their
rocket launchers...they have their hands more than full. Categorization is
probably not the route TS fic will follow, at least not for a while yet,
especially w/ those limitations.

I personally would rather it stayed the way it is, slash, adult, gen being
about the only dividers--everything on an equal standpoint, and we all
bumbling through it having fun. JMHO, of course--but I'm a simple sorta gal,
and like to keep life that way ;)

XmagicalX

[Sairobi]

Hidey ho, Miss XmagicalX! Yes, I'm new around here, but I've been lurking for
the past month or so until I'd actually seen more than two eps of the show in
question....;-)

<<argh! we're becoming an TXF type ng?>>

A firm HELL, NO! I've heard horrors unimaginable outta there...<g>

<<ahhhh-- er, no offense meant, please,
it's just, atx, besides being too big, played too tough hardball for me, and
atxc had similar problems...I prefer warm & squishy netlife.>>

Agreed. Have you been to ATXC recently, per chance? The only reason why I ask
is because it semi-pretains (Hey, I'm making a valid attempt at on-topicness.)
to this whole categorization thing.

<<Amen to that! 'course they do have the recs, and if you're looking for
straight smarm you can find that just about annawhere... ;)>>

<coughcough852PROSPECT!> Heehee. By the way, I've had a lot of trouble finding
pure recs pages for senfic...I've hit all the "classics" but I have no clue
where to start otherwise. Suggestions?

<<I do wish occasionally for summaries. Titles are not enough to go by! but
OTOH I have
enough trouble trying to write summaries for my own fic...>>

Ick. You'd think with a ninety-three page novel I could come up with more than
"What if Pendrell didn't die?"....<wink>

<<Also amen to that! this wouldn't be personal, would it?>>

Psuedo-quasi-personal. I have a very good friend who is an *excellent* writer,
but folks won't give her a chance because she hardly deals with Moose and
Squirrel. (And here's the sad thing: she writes a half-hearted MSR and gets
twice the email for her regular, brilliant work.) Plus....well....I won't go
into the Nobody-Loves-Me-'Cuz-I-Don't-Write-A-Certain-Genre whine.

<<I know where that's coming from, at least--as a steadfastedly non-MSR TXF
writer I think I did lose readers along the way.>>

Kindred sister! Not to sound arrogant, <smack smack> but I believe I'm a decent
enough writer, who, if I dealt in everyone's favorite two agents, would
probably get my feedback fix. But alas, I'm more of a minor character sorta
gal; if I go into senfic, I would probably deal more with the
Brown/Taggert/Rafe (Ryf? What the hell is the spelling on this guy? I'm a
helpless newbie.) folks.

<< It wasn't *quite* that bad though...
(sidetrack--his wife? I think I can count male fanfic writers on one
hand...and that's in TXF, I don't know any in TS, actually. It's sort of a
female profession...)>>

Sorry, was going to say hubby, but somehow didn't seem right. <shrug>

<<And categorizing can often be a pain, when you don't know where something
fits...it's easy to say "humor" or "smarm" but then
angst/action/humor/plot tends to get a wee bit confusin'...>>

Exactly. And doncha love it when angst suddenly takes a romantic turn and you
weren't forewarned? Retch. (By the way, I in NO WAY have a problemo with
slash/romance. I just like to know ahead of time when sack hopping is going to
occur.)

<<Concerning the categorization examples--totally accurate (but
Pendrell/Krycek? the mental picture alone is enough! ;)>>

Oh ho ho! It's actually very hot with the slash grrrls of XF fic. (Try:
http://members.aol.com/canny409/picks.html and head to the *Socks* Shoppe link
near the bottom. "Comeuppance" was the first series to deal with it, and wowee
has it taken off! [But that doesn't save us from all the occasional odious
pick..})

<<but I think if you even tried to suggest that to the poor Archive Elves of
Guide Posts they'd
probably come at you with their elfshot and their bows and arrows and their
rocket launchers...they have their hands more than full. Categorization is
probably not the route TS fic will follow, at least not for a while yet,
especially w/ those limitations>>.

Frankly, I'd rather not see it go that route m'self. It's a pain in the butt to
learn, and not that useful aside from weeding out the MSRs. <wink> However, I
think summaries, however short, would be a *big* help. But that's only me.

--Sairobi

http://gfiles.simplenet.com/annex/covers/summerinthesnow.html
(Heh. A little cheap self promo. Don't hate me.)

[maha...@ix.netcom.com]

<Mick waves at everyone>

Back from vacation, and not an eyelid twitch or tight neck muscle
remains! :)

Sairobi wrote:

>> Hidey ho, Miss XmagicalX! Yes, I'm new around here, but I've been lurking for the past month or so until I'd actually seen more than two eps of the show in question....;-)<<

Welcome, Sairobi. :)

> <<argh! we're becoming an TXF type ng?>>

God, I hope not.

>>A firm HELL, NO! I've heard horrors unimaginable outta there...<g><<

Heck, I started in the alt.books.anne-rice ng, and if you didn't firmly
avow that every word from Anne's carmine lips were like pearls cast
before swine you were publicly staked out to have your hiney crisped by
the rising sun!

With abar it wasn't the issue of how stories should be classified, but
whether vampires could have a sexual relationship, what it would entail,
and if so, were Lestat and Louis doing the wild thing? When fic started
showing up (and it *had* to because Anne has a habit of creating really
great background characters then totally ignoring them) they were so
busy arguing these incredibly important points that the issue of
categorization wasn't ever address!

Thank god for small favors.

> <<ahhhh-- er, no offense meant, please,
> it's just, atx, besides being too big, played too tough hardball for me, and
> atxc had similar problems...I prefer warm & squishy netlife.>>
>
> Agreed. Have you been to ATXC recently, per chance? The only reason why I ask
> is because it semi-pretains (Hey, I'm making a valid attempt at on-topicness.)
> to this whole categorization thing.
>
> <<Amen to that! 'course they do have the recs, and if you're looking for
> straight smarm you can find that just about annawhere... ;)>>
>
> <coughcough852PROSPECT!> Heehee.

Warning, ng sibs. 852 Prospect is a slash archive. <g> Smarm abounds,
but it's slash smarm. Actually, with the TS boys it's kind of hard to
tell gen smarm from slash smarm. :) Just stay away from those with the
handy NC-17 warnings and you'll avoid being saddled with mental images
you could have lived without. ;]

>> By the way, I've had a lot of trouble finding pure recs pages for senfic...<<

Now that you mention it, I don't think there *are* any rec pure rec
pages for Senfic.

<<I've hit all the "classics" but I have no clue where to start
otherwise. Suggestions?>>

I could give you slash suggestions, but as far as gen stuff
goes...<shrug> I've read some, but, frankly, didn't find anything that
really stayed in my memory (other than Snake Oil).

If you're looking for good TS slash, anything by Em Brunson or Brenda
Antrim is a great place to start. Some other stand-out authors are Russ
McMillan and the lady of shallot. If you want to split your sides
laughing, go for Helmboy's stuff. torch, of XF and Voyager slash fame,
is reputedly working on a TS story. You can bet that it will be worth a
read when she's done with it.

Sorry I couldn't be more specific with my recommendations, but I tend to
remember authors I like rather than individual story titles.

>>Psuedo-quasi-personal. I have a very good friend who is an *excellent* writer, but folks won't give her a chance because she hardly deals with Moose and Squirrel.<<

Who does she write? If it's Skinner fic, I need to know her name...
<drool>

> <<I know where that's coming from, at least--as a steadfastedly non-MSR TXF
> writer I think I did lose readers along the way.>>
>
>>Kindred sister! Not to sound arrogant, <smack smack> but I believe I'm a decent enough writer, who, if I dealt in everyone's favorite two agents, would probably get my feedback fix. But alas, I'm more of a minor character sorta gal;<<

I hear ya. It's more fun to play with the minor characters, you have
nearly a blank page to work from, so any way you want to take the
character is not going to trample all over canon.

And let me tell you, there's nothing worse than the Canon Police. <Mick
flips off the Trek groups overzealous officers of Canon Law.> I mean,
I'm all for accuracy, but some so called canonical points are, imho,
interpretive--and therein lies the fun!

>> if I go into senfic, I would probably deal more with the Brown/Taggert/Rafe (Ryf? What the hell is the spelling on this guy? I'm a
helpless newbie.) folks.<<

The guy's real first name is Ryf, pronounced Rafe, and he's known as
Detective Rafe (Rafe being the last name) on the show. No first name
that we've every heard. Everyone just calls him Rafe.

> << It wasn't *quite* that bad though...
> (sidetrack--his wife? I think I can count male fanfic writers on one
> hand...and that's in TXF, I don't know any in TS, actually. It's sort of a
> female profession...)>>

Lately, both XF and TS are picking up some male slash writers.
Admittedly, they seem to be the same guys crossing fandoms, but it's
definitely on the rise. (Two or three new guys posting stories in one
month constitutes a rise. <g>)

> Sorry, was going to say hubby, but somehow didn't seem right. <shrug>
>
> <<And categorizing can often be a pain, when you don't know where something
> fits...it's easy to say "humor" or "smarm" but then
> angst/action/humor/plot tends to get a wee bit confusin'...>>
>
>>Exactly. And doncha love it when angst suddenly takes a romantic turn and you weren't forewarned? Retch. (By the way, I in NO WAY have a problemo with slash/romance. I just like to know ahead of time when sack hopping is going to occur.)<<

If you're an M/Ker like me, angst/slash/romance *is* a category! <BG>

And us slashers would dearly love a warning of approaching 'het'
interaction. Nothing worse that finding some Mary Sue suddenly crawling
all over one half of your favorite slash pairing! <SHUDDER>

> <<Concerning the categorization examples--totally accurate (but
> Pendrell/Krycek? the mental picture alone is enough! ;)>>

You want mental pictures? I'll give ya mental pictures! <see below> }:]

> Oh ho ho! It's actually very hot with the slash grrrls of XF fic. (Try:
> http://members.aol.com/canny409/picks.html and head to the *Socks* Shoppe link
> near the bottom. "Comeuppance" was the first series to deal with it, and wowee
> has it taken off!

HA haaaaa! I remember the birth of Pendrell slash. It started over on
the M/K list. Boy was that fun. <eg> Those MKers are a sick and twisted
bunch (and I love ‘em to death). No one is safe from being slashed. Not
Cancerman, Not the Lone Gunmen (yes there is Gunmen slash!), not even
Mulder's dad.

>>Categorization is probably not the route TS fic will follow, at least not for a while yet,
> especially w/ those limitations<<.

Er, you haven't seen the rules for posting to SXF (the Senad fic list)
have you? <g>

> Frankly, I'd rather not see it go that route m'self. It's a pain in the butt to
> learn, and not that useful aside from weeding out the MSRs. <wink> However, I
> think summaries, however short, would be a *big* help. But that's only me.

I love summaries, but damned if I can write them. Brevity is not my
strong suit. :)

Are there fen out there willing to write summaries for those of us who
can't seem to?

Mick C.

[Sairobi]

<<<Mick waves at everyone>>>

<Sair waves back and manages to twist her wrist> Owies.

<<Welcome, Sairobi. :)>>

Uh, hi! I would wave again, but I think I broke something...(Paaaaain..)

<<Heck, I started in the alt.books.anne-rice ng, and if you didn't firmly
avow that every word from Anne's carmine lips were like pearls cast
before swine you were publicly staked out to have your hiney crisped by
the rising sun!

With abar it wasn't the issue of how stories should be classified, but
whether vampires could have a sexual relationship, what it would entail,
and if so, were Lestat and Louis doing the wild thing?>>

I may be quite the fool here...but I thought the whole...ya
know...VAMPIRISM....deal didn't allow them to get it on. ;-)

<<When fic started
showing up (and it *had* to because Anne has a habit of creating really
great background characters then totally ignoring them)>>

Or she takes a minor character, who was none too interesting from the start,
and writes a two hundred pages novel about NOTHING involving a character whom
you bear such a bored animosity to that....well...I lost my train of thought.
<ahem!Pandora!>

<<Warning, ng sibs. 852 Prospect is a slash archive. <g>>>

<looks shocked> Nooooo!

<<Smarm abounds, but it's slash smarm. Actually, with the TS boys it's kind of
hard to
tell gen smarm from slash smarm. :) Just stay away from those with the handy
NC-17 warnings and you'll avoid being saddled with mental images you could have
lived without. ;]>>

Heh. <goes into Jurassic Park Dos mode> Suuure, at first the smarm's fun...but
then there's the running...an-and the screaming...

<<Now that you mention it, I don't think there *are* any rec pure rec pages for
Senfic.>>

<raises eyebrows> Are y'all listening?

<<If you're looking for good TS slash, anything by Em Brunson or Brenda
Antrim is a great place to start. Some other stand-out authors are Russ
McMillan and the lady of shallot.>>

Mmm, the only one I've hit on that list is the Lady. Her name caught me...and
the rest is history. *Anybody* who can do decent things with such an overused
song as "I Don't Want to Wait" has my respect.

<<torch, of XF and Voyager slash fame,
is reputedly working on a TS story. You can bet that it will be worth a read
when she's done with it.>>

No WAY! Let the salivating begin! (That girl can do no wrong...)

<<Who does she write? If it's Skinner fic, I need to know her name...
<drool>>>

Sorry. She's a bit more of a Krycek (Hey, I converted her. She thought he was a
lowly ratboy, but I showed her the way...<g>)and Pendy fan. (In fact, she was
one of the first to slash 'em--know who I'm talking about?)

And when she gets really desperate....she writes Mulder/Scully. (Duh nuh NUH!)

<<I hear ya. It's more fun to play with the minor characters, you have nearly
a blank page to work from, so any way you want to take the character is not
going to trample all over canon.>>

EXACTLY. I wouldn't call it a cop out, but playing the minor character field
allows you to be more creative. (Of course, you don't quite get the same love
for the major players...but it's worth it, IMO.)

<<And let me tell you, there's nothing worse than the Canon Police. <Mick
flips off the Trek groups overzealous officers of Canon Law.> I mean,
I'm all for accuracy, but some so called canonical points are, imho,
interpretive--and therein lies the fun!>>

Yikes! I've never heard "cannonical points"; care to share? About the only
cannon I require is the absolute non-usage of Fox/Dana/Celine Dion/And The
Requisite
Scully-Popping-Babies-Like-Tuesday's-The-End-Of-The-World-As-We-Know-It. (Which
loosely translates to: birth stories=ick.) In TS, I would prefer it if Blair's
the guy with the long hair and Jim's the big police dude...;-)

And under no circumstances should *either* of them be popping babies like
Tuesday's the end of the word as we know it.

<<The guy's real first name is Ryf, pronounced Rafe, and he's known as
Detective Rafe (Rafe being the last name) on the show.>>

So should I assume someone's confused when I see Ryf in fic? Or that the real
world portal's been breached and we should run like the wind because pretty
soon the folks from Days of Our Lives are going to be pouring out? (Including
all six Hope's...)

<<No first name that we've every heard. Everyone just calls him Rafe.>>

....and thus, X-Files syndrome strikes again. (Scully! Mulder! Skinner! Krycek!
[And to a lesser, more evil extent...Pendrell] These people *do* have first
names, believe it or not!)

<<Lately, both XF and TS are picking up some male slash writers. Admittedly,
they seem to be the same guys crossing fandoms, but it's definitely on the
rise. (Two or three new guys posting stories in one month constitutes a rise.
<g>)>>

Finally. I'd like to think guys would know the peculiarities of their own
anatomy better than us...

<<If you're an M/Ker like me, angst/slash/romance *is* a category! <BG>>>

Don't get me wrong, I have nooooo problem at *all* with angst/slash/romance, I
just like to forewarned. That's all.

<<And us slashers would dearly love a warning of approaching 'het' interaction.
Nothing worse that finding some Mary Sue suddenly crawling all over one half of
your favorite slash pairing! <SHUDDER>>>

Ick. Ick. Yuck. Yuck.

<<HA haaaaa! I remember the birth of Pendrell slash.>>

So do I, back in the Stone Ages. (I guess that dates us, huh?) I had never read
slash before; someone sent me "Comeuppance"/"Portent"/"Dangerous". (Mmm,
RussianPrince!Krycek. Yeah, that's right....screw cannon.) I was hooooooked.

<<It started over on the M/K list. Boy was that fun. <eg> Those MKers are a
sick and twisted
bunch (and I love ‘em to death). No one is safe from being slashed. Not
Cancerman, Not the Lone Gunmen (yes there is Gunmen slash!), not even Mulder's
dad.>>

Yeppers. In fact-o, didn't Te just write a really great Langly/Byers?? I never
got to read it, but I heard good things about it.

<<Er, you haven't seen the rules for posting to SXF (the Senad fic list)
have you? <g>>>

I saw. Is it stone cut law? Half of it seems awfully....anal. (And this is
coming from someone in from the always retentive XF fic circles.

<<I love summaries, but damned if I can write them. Brevity is not my
strong suit. :)

Are there fen out there willing to write summaries for those of us who
can't seem to?>>

<raises hand> Of course, you would have to put past performance aside...;-)

--Sairobi
...and they called me too verbose. Well, I say HA! to you, English teachers! I
shall triumph!

[maha...@ix.netcom.com]

Sairobi wrote:
>
> <<<Mick waves at everyone>>>
>
> <Sair waves back and manages to twist her wrist> Owies.

Careful there. Wrists are needed for typing fanfic. :)

> With abar it wasn't the issue of how stories should be classified, but
> whether vampires could have a sexual relationship, what it would entail,
> and if so, were Lestat and Louis doing the wild thing?>>
>
> I may be quite the fool here...but I thought the whole...ya
> know...VAMPIRISM....deal didn't allow them to get it on. ;-)

Try telling that to Lestat. <snerk>

> <<When fic started
> showing up (and it *had* to because Anne has a habit of creating really
> great background characters then totally ignoring them)>>
>
> Or she takes a minor character, who was none too interesting from the start,
> and writes a two hundred pages novel about NOTHING involving a character whom
> you bear such a bored animosity to that....well...I lost my train of thought.
> <ahem!Pandora!>

LOL! Uh-oh. I happen to adore Pandora (and you need to check with her on
that vampires don't have sex thing. <RBG>) I don't mind your derision
though. I'm practiced at defending her (which I really won't get into
here, because we are soooo off topic already <g>). I've suffered through
her being know as "The Kumquat" for years now. I'm made to write her
parts in group stories and such. I don't mind, because anyone who can so
regularly cause the tight-assed Marius to lose his cool is okay with me.
(Except for Lestat. The brat.)

And if you want to read some of the best vamp-slash going, well, torch
is your answer once again. Try "And death shall have no erection" and
"Roman holiday III: Sex and the single vampire." (L&L the first one and
a surprise combo of Marius and Santino for the last.) These are two of
my personal faves. <pg> If you know torch's work, you know most likely
have her webpage bookmarked already.

> <<Warning, ng sibs. 852 Prospect is a slash archive. <g>>>
>
> <looks shocked> Nooooo!

You'd be surprised how many folks don't know *what* slash is, let alone
that there are HUGE archives of it. They blithely stumble into 852 - and
leave with a whole new perspective. :)

> <<Smarm abounds, but it's slash smarm. Actually, with the TS boys it's kind of
> hard to
> tell gen smarm from slash smarm. :) Just stay away from those with the handy
> NC-17 warnings and you'll avoid being saddled with mental images you could have
> lived without. ;]>>
>
> Heh. <goes into Jurassic Park Dos mode> Suuure, at first the smarm's fun...but
> then there's the running...an-and the screaming...

I love Jeff Goldblum(sp?). :)

> <<Now that you mention it, I don't think there *are* any rec pure rec pages for
> Senfic.>>
>
> <raises eyebrows> Are y'all listening?

<Mick hides>

> <<If you're looking for good TS slash, anything by Em Brunson or Brenda
> Antrim is a great place to start. Some other stand-out authors are Russ
> McMillan and the lady of shallot.>>
>
> Mmm, the only one I've hit on that list is the Lady. Her name caught me...and
> the rest is history. *Anybody* who can do decent things with such an overused
> song as "I Don't Want to Wait" has my respect.

Her "World Burning Down" is one of my personal favs, and her "New York,
New York" is a favoirte as well. The girl is *good*. But, oh man, you've
got to check out Em's "Dante" series too, you won't be sorry. Also,
Em's "Detour" is one of the best TS AU's I've read.

> <<torch, of XF and Voyager slash fame,
> is reputedly working on a TS story. You can bet that it will be worth a read
> when she's done with it.>>
>
> No WAY!

Way. :)

> Let the salivating begin! (That girl can do no wrong...)

If you know A. Leigh-Anne Childe's stuff from M/Sk stories, you'll be
pleased to know that she's lurking in TS too. I'm sure she'll succumb
soon... <cackle!>

> <<Who does she write? If it's Skinner fic, I need to know her name...
> <drool>>>
>
> Sorry. She's a bit more of a Krycek (Hey, I converted her. She thought he was a
> lowly ratboy, but I showed her the way...<g>)and Pendy fan. (In fact, she was
> one of the first to slash 'em--know who I'm talking about?)

Yep. I certainly do. :)

I didn't know you were a family member. Have I seen you in The Rathole?
<G>

> And when she gets really desperate....she writes Mulder/Scully. (Duh nuh NUH!)

She must be cleansed.

> <<I hear ya. It's more fun to play with the minor characters, you have nearly
> a blank page to work from, so any way you want to take the character is not
> going to trample all over canon.>>
>
> EXACTLY. I wouldn't call it a cop out, but playing the minor character field
> allows you to be more creative. (Of course, you don't quite get the same love
> for the major players...but it's worth it, IMO.)
>
> <<And let me tell you, there's nothing worse than the Canon Police. <Mick
> flips off the Trek groups overzealous officers of Canon Law.> I mean,
> I'm all for accuracy, but some so called canonical points are, imho,
> interpretive--and therein lies the fun!>>
>
> Yikes! I've never heard "cannonical points"; care to share? About the only
> cannon I require is the absolute non-usage of Fox/Dana/Celine Dion/And The
> Requisite
> Scully-Popping-Babies-Like-Tuesday's-The-End-Of-The-World-As-We-Know-It.

ICK!

(Which
> loosely translates to: birth stories=ick.)

<Mick stops to be sick in a wastebasket>

> In TS, I would prefer it if Blair's the guy with the long hair and Jim's the big police dude...;-)

Fat chance. There's a list. <g> Nightowl's sight has it, I think.

One of my favorite arguable points is the issue of Blair's father and
whether or not Naomi knows who it is. Canon states that she doesn't
know, but I think she *does* know and just isn't letting Blair in on the
secret.

> And under no circumstances should *either* of them be popping babies like
> Tuesday's the end of the word as we know it.

HEEEEEE. Um, there's a really cute series out there along those lines...
if I can remember the name, I'll let you know and you can judge for
yourself. <eg>

> <<The guy's real first name is Ryf, pronounced Rafe, and he's known as
> Detective Rafe (Rafe being the last name) on the show.>>
>
> So should I assume someone's confused when I see Ryf in fic?

Yep.

Or that the real
> world portal's been breached and we should run like the wind because pretty
> soon the folks from Days of Our Lives are going to be pouring out? (Including
> all six Hope's...)

Okay, I can see I'll have to ban coffee drinking when reading your
posts. <Mick wipes off the monitor carefully>

> <<No first name that we've every heard. Everyone just calls him Rafe.>>
>
> ....and thus, X-Files syndrome strikes again. (Scully! Mulder! Skinner! Krycek!
> [And to a lesser, more evil extent...Pendrell] These people *do* have first
> names, believe it or not!)

Must be some law enforcement kind of thing.

> <<Lately, both XF and TS are picking up some male slash writers. Admittedly,
> they seem to be the same guys crossing fandoms, but it's definitely on the
> rise. (Two or three new guys posting stories in one month constitutes a rise.
> <g>)>>
>
> Finally. I'd like to think guys would know the peculiarities of their own
> anatomy better than us...

They've been rather sweet about answering some rather blunt questions
too. For the sake of research, you understand. :)

> <<If you're an M/Ker like me, angst/slash/romance *is* a category! <BG>>>
>
> Don't get me wrong, I have nooooo problem at *all* with angst/slash/romance, I
> just like to forewarned. That's all.

<Mick points to Em's TS slash> Consider yourself forewarned. Also, be
warned that Em's not into fluff...

> <<And us slashers would dearly love a warning of approaching 'het' interaction.
> Nothing worse that finding some Mary Sue suddenly crawling all over one half of
> your favorite slash pairing! <SHUDDER>>>
>
> Ick. Ick. Yuck. Yuck.

:)

> <<HA haaaaa! I remember the birth of Pendrell slash.>>
>
> So do I, back in the Stone Ages. (I guess that dates us, huh?) I had never read
> slash before; someone sent me "Comeuppance"/"Portent"/"Dangerous".

Ahhh. The classics. ;]

>(Mmm, RussianPrince!Krycek. Yeah, that's right....screw cannon.) I was hooooooked.
>
> <<It started over on the M/K list. Boy was that fun. <eg> Those MKers are a
> sick and twisted
> bunch (and I love ‘em to death). No one is safe from being slashed. Not
> Cancerman, Not the Lone Gunmen (yes there is Gunmen slash!), not even Mulder's
> dad.>>
>
> Yeppers. In fact-o, didn't Te just write a really great Langly/Byers?? I never
> got to read it, but I heard good things about it.

What?!! I've missed this. Then again, I'm still computerless and having
to get my ng fix wherever I can find access these days. <Mick curses the
so-called Technical Support Gods>

> <<Er, you haven't seen the rules for posting to SXF (the Senad fic list)
> have you? <g>>>
>
> I saw. Is it stone cut law? Half of it seems awfully....anal. (And this is
> coming from someone in from the always retentive XF fic circles.

If you're posting to SXF or to either of the archives it is. Death
stories are a particularly touchy issue. There are Senners who will have
a flaming cow if a main character dies in a story and you don't tell
them right up front. Me, I don't wanna know in advance that Blair's
going to get shot in the head and die at Jim's feet. I want to be right
there in the land of shock with Jimbo when it happens. Differences like
that caused the evolution of the "0/1 of ?" section. That "O" section is
supposed to contain all the handy dandy category listings, warnings and
summaries, allowing us to skip, tra-la-la, past them if we like.

If you have your own web site you can, of course, do as you like. ;]

> <<I love summaries, but damned if I can write them. Brevity is not my
> strong suit. :)
>
> Are there fen out there willing to write summaries for those of us who
> can't seem to?>>
>
> <raises hand> Of course, you would have to put past performance aside...;-)

:)

Be careful what you volunteer for in Senadia. You'll find yourself the
official synopsizer before you can say "it's about friendship!"

Mick C.

[PattRose1]

>Warnings as far as gen vs slash, those are understandable. Ratings like G,
>R, NC-17, those are quite good, even necessary to avoid insulting people and
>exposing them to what they'd rathr avoid. But imho warnings can be taken too
>far, I mean, if a fic is labeled WARNING Blair-napping, minor char serious
>injury, major char minor injury, villain killed in a sort-of-but-not-too

>graphic manner, secondary villain escapes for a sequel...well, what's the

>point of reading the fic, when you know it all already? (don't answer that!
>it was a rhetoric example! anyone who invokes "Beach" will be steadfastedly
>ignored!)
>
>Just random thoughts, as always, and late-night ones too, how much sense will
>they make in the morning, I wonder?
>XmagicalX

>

>Speaking of warnings, should I post my latest...well, masterpiece is *hardly*
>the word, this thing's got a warning actually, for Blair-hurting with no good
>reason whatsoever...
>

ROFLMAO I am laughing, and not sure whether I am supposed to be. LOL I hope
I am not stepping on any toes. But I loved this post. It was great. I agreed
with a lot of it.
Patt
Goddess of the Desert and Goddess of Laughter and Smiles.
http://members.aol.com/PattRose1/Page3.html

[ek...@arctos.bowdoin.edu]

sai...@aol.com (Sairobi) wrote:
> <<<Mick waves at everyone>>>
>
> <Sair waves back and manages to twist her wrist> Owies.
>

<XmagicalX jumps back in the pool--ouchie! COLD!>

> <<Heck, I started in the alt.books.anne-rice ng, and if you didn't firmly
> avow that every word from Anne's carmine lips were like pearls cast
> before swine you were publicly staked out to have your hiney crisped by
> the rising sun!
>

ahhh...sounds scarra!
well, if we-all work together we can keep from becoming like that...lestways
every word that falls from Our Heros' mouths isn't pure gold to me ("You drop
them and they fall." ARGH! what was the writer *on*! ;)

> With abar it wasn't the issue of how stories should be classified, but
> whether vampires could have a sexual relationship, what it would entail,
> and if so, were Lestat and Louis doing the wild thing?>>
>
> I may be quite the fool here...but I thought the whole...ya
> know...VAMPIRISM....deal didn't allow them to get it on. ;-)
>

that was my general impression...funny, I'm just re-reading these now. Pity
about Queen of the Damned...TVL was so wonderful, too...& I've forgotten Body
Thief ever happened...

> <<Warning, ng sibs. 852 Prospect is a slash archive. <g>>>
>
> <looks shocked> Nooooo!
>
> <<Smarm abounds, but it's slash smarm. Actually, with the TS boys it's kind of
> hard to
> tell gen smarm from slash smarm. :) Just stay away from those with the handy
> NC-17 warnings and you'll avoid being saddled with mental images you could
have
> lived without. ;]>>
>

ahh! Here I'm going to be hopping in and out of the conversation...I don't
read slash. I dunno, can't quite see that either. Well, except M/K, and
that was only 'cuz of the kiss in R&B, which was the only good part of the
ep... Like I said, hopeless smarmer but not a romantic ;)

> <<Now that you mention it, I don't think there *are* any rec pure rec pages
for
> Senfic.>>
>

Well, there's one on GuidePosts but it's hopelessly random...there was another
one *somewhere* but I lose web addies like nobody's business...

> <<If you're looking for good TS slash, anything by Em Brunson or Brenda
> Antrim is a great place to start. Some other stand-out authors are Russ
> McMillan and the lady of shallot.>>

If you read any gen...Merry is lots of fun (if she'd finish Heart) Kris
Williams is who everybody starts with (at least I did) and TAE I personally
love...<ahem> I've got a couple things on GuidePosts too...{hopeless bid for
readers--what can I say, I'm shameless! =) }

> Sorry. She's a bit more of a Krycek (Hey, I converted her. She thought he was
a
> lowly ratboy, but I showed her the way...<g>)and Pendy fan. (In fact, she was
> one of the first to slash 'em--know who I'm talking about?)
>

any Krycek-conversion is a good thing...I'm still waiting for NL on TS. I
mean, he is in Vancouver after all...

> <<I hear ya. It's more fun to play with the minor characters, you have nearly
> a blank page to work from, so any way you want to take the character is not
> going to trample all over canon.>>
>
> EXACTLY. I wouldn't call it a cop out, but playing the minor character field
> allows you to be more creative. (Of course, you don't quite get the same love
> for the major players...but it's worth it, IMO.)
>

Of course when you go and make your own chars...I actually had pretty good
response with that but I think it was 'cuz I wasn't *intending* them to
become major...they just got out of hand. What was I saying? oh yeah--I
like minor char stuff--with TXF, considering everything else written, there's
nowhere else to go!

> <<And let me tell you, there's nothing worse than the Canon Police. <Mick
> flips off the Trek groups overzealous officers of Canon Law.> I mean,
> I'm all for accuracy, but some so called canonical points are, imho,
> interpretive--and therein lies the fun!>>
>
> Yikes! I've never heard "cannonical points"; care to share? About the only
> cannon I require is the absolute non-usage of Fox/Dana/Celine Dion/And The
> Requisite
> Scully-Popping-Babies-Like-Tuesday's-The-End-Of-The-World-As-We-Know-It.
(Which
> loosely translates to: birth stories=ick.) In TS, I would prefer it if
Blair's
> the guy with the long hair and Jim's the big police dude...;-)
>

I like your TXF canons... And TS's fic canons--half of 'em are made up
anyhoo. Lots of authors have a tendency to make their own mini-AUs that
cover and introduce what they want and skip the rest.

> So should I assume someone's confused when I see Ryf in fic? Or that the real
> world portal's been breached and we should run like the wind because pretty
> soon the folks from Days of Our Lives are going to be pouring out? (Including
> all six Hope's...)

Ryf is the actor's name, I believe...it's kinda baffling. I'm not even going
to ask about the Days of Our Lives reference...

>
> <<No first name that we've every heard. Everyone just calls him Rafe.>>
>
> ....and thus, X-Files syndrome strikes again. (Scully! Mulder! Skinner!
Krycek!
> [And to a lesser, more evil extent...Pendrell] These people *do* have first
> names, believe it or not!)

Except Pendrell. and Kresge. unless you count that nameplate name John but I
don't, that was the *actor's* name--er. Now that I've lost everybody...
>

> <<If you're an M/Ker like me, angst/slash/romance *is* a category! <BG>>>
>
> Don't get me wrong, I have nooooo problem at *all* with angst/slash/romance, I
> just like to forewarned. That's all.
>

yipes! this is why categorization is a bad idea... M/K probably gets more
readers than S/K at least..."Wheels" was one of my faves of my own work and I
swear the lack of readers was due to putting Scully in the wrong set of
arms...is it my fault she fits there so much better?

> <<It started over on the M/K list. Boy was that fun. <eg> Those MKers are a
> sick and twisted

> bunch (and I love 粗m to death). No one is safe from being slashed. Not

> Cancerman, Not the Lone Gunmen (yes there is Gunmen slash!), not even Mulder's
> dad.>>
>

You know, I think accidently stumbling across a CSM/Skinner piece early in my
introduction to fanfic could be a reason behind my aversion to the field...

well, it may be OT but I'm havin' fun at least! I kinda miss atx...well,
that's not accurate. I just miss X-philes...who'd've thought I'd find kindred
spirits in another fandom? =) XmagicalX

[StarGem]

Sairobi wrote:
>
> Star sez:
>
> <<I think I stated in an e-mail to you that is was, now I'm posting it to
> the group.
>
> What do the rest of you think? Is this what everybody wants?
>
> If so, then put it up here.>>
>

> I would be sort of iffy on that one, Star. If any of you happen to hang out on
> ATXC, (Alt.tv.xfiles.creative.) you know debate pops up every other week about
> ratings/summaries/categories/etc. While annoying, I can see both sides. (Which
> I will graciously share...heehee.)

I've seen some of the ratings/summaries on Gossamer, and I thing I can
see both sides also, but it would make it easier on the reader so that
can decide after seeing the warnings/ratings/summaries whether or not
they want to read that particular story.

>
> The up side: you actually <gasp> know what you're getting into. When I first
> started reading senfic, I was more than slightly confuzzled by the lack of
> categorization, much less summaries. Going thru Guide Posts is a game of luck
> at this point--what's the chances of scoring a decent read if you don't even
> have any recs to work off of?

That's one of the points I was trying to make. With XF fanfic, you
actually KNOW what is in each of the stories, and with senfic, it really
IS a game of luck. The only way to know what is in the fic is if you
click onto the link, and it's only after that that you really see what
it is your about to read.

>
> But, of course, there's the not-so-sunshine-y side of the road.
>
> With nearly mandatory summaries, (As is in the XF fanfic universe; you can only
> get away with non-summarization if you're a well known writer.) you risk losing
> readers afraid of the big bad label. (Example in terms of XF: Reader does not
> read anything non Mulder/Scully. Reader approaches story; non MSR label. Reader
> doesn't give story a chance. Writer cries. Writer stops writing fanfiction.
> Writer begins drinking. Writer's wife leaves him. Writer loses custody of the
> 2.4 children, but retains care of family dog, Muffy. Writer contemplates the
> virtues of a .38 versus a razor. See where I'm going here? <wink>) Sure,
> summaries and categories help set the reader on the right track...but at times,
> they can be more of a hindrance than help to the author.

Yeah, I guess they can. I feel sorry for those writers that don't get
the readership they deserve just because of the labels. I for one don't
read MSR stuff because I'm not interested in whether or not they have a
sexual relationship, I'll just read it just to see what kind of case the
writer is going to have them working on. Just like the show and the
movie.

>
> I know a gal who writes wonderfully....but only deals in minor character fic.
> Does she give a flying rat's ass as to what the mainstream thinks? No. But has
> she been pigeonholed by labels? Yes. Consider it before going too gung-ho into
> something that may not be as great as you think.

Yeah, and btw, I feel sorry for that writer, because even if the story
only has The Lone Gunmen, it is still what I would call XF.

>
> --Sairobi
> Example of what you may be getting yourself into....
>
> Standard XF Categories:
> Major:
> S--Story
> V--Vignette
> Not So Major:
> X--X-File/Case File
> R--Romance
> A--Angst
> T--Action
> H--Humor
> UST--Unresolved Sexual Tension
> RST--Resolved Sexual Tension (As in marriage. Ewww.)
> Romance:
> MSR--Mulder/Scully Romance <blech>

You said it. Like I just said, I'll read an XF fanfic just for the
story, not for any romance, you can read slash for that.

> M/O--Mulder/Other
> S/O--Scully/Other
> M/K--Mulder/Krycek
> S/K--Scully/Krycek

Not those are the one's that I DO NOT read. ANYTHING with Mulder and/or
Scully with Krycek is a no go.

> M/Sk--Mulder/Skinner
> S/Sk--Scully/Skinner
> Sk/O--Skinner/Other
> K/O--Krycek/Other
> P/K(!)--Pendrell/Krycek (*Socks*!!)

Who is Pendrell? If you have to, send all your answers to my personal
e-mail address, not to this ng, as it would be considered very off
topic.

>
> And, of course, usual ratings apply.

Those also, but the ratings have there own purposes.

Star
sta...@mail.fwi.com

[StarGem]

ek...@arctos.bowdoin.edu wrote:
>
> Firstly, welcome, Sairobi! haven't seen you around here I don't think? (either
> that or DN is messin' with my brains again)
>
> sai...@aol.com (Sairobi) wrote:
>

> > I would be sort of iffy on that one, Star. If any of you happen to hang out on
> > ATXC, (Alt.tv.xfiles.creative.) you know debate pops up every other week about
> > ratings/summaries/categories/etc. While annoying, I can see both sides. (Which
> > I will graciously share...heehee.)
> >
>

> argh! we're becoming an TXF type ng? ahhhh-- er, no offense meant, please,

> it's just, atx, besides being too big, played too tough hardball for me, and

> atxc had similar problems...I prefer warm & squishy netlife. Flames scare
> me...hope I'm not drawing any now...sincere apologies to any and all... <:)
>

> > The up side: you actually <gasp> know what you're getting into. When I first
> > started reading senfic, I was more than slightly confuzzled by the lack of
> > categorization, much less summaries. Going thru Guide Posts is a game of luck
> > at this point--what's the chances of scoring a decent read if you don't even
> > have any recs to work off of?
> >
>

> Amen to that! 'course they do have the recs, and if you're looking for

> straight smarm you can find that just about annawhere... ;) I do wish

> occasionally for summaries. Titles are not enough to go by! but OTOH I have
> enough trouble trying to write summaries for my own fic...
>

> > But, of course, there's the not-so-sunshine-y side of the road.
> >
> > With nearly mandatory summaries, (As is in the XF fanfic universe; you can
> only
> > get away with non-summarization if you're a well known writer.) you risk
> losing
> > readers afraid of the big bad label. (Example in terms of XF: Reader does not
> > read anything non Mulder/Scully. Reader approaches story; non MSR label.
> Reader
> > doesn't give story a chance. Writer cries. Writer stops writing fanfiction.
> > Writer begins drinking. Writer's wife leaves him. Writer loses custody of the
> > 2.4 children, but retains care of family dog, Muffy. Writer contemplates the
> > virtues of a .38 versus a razor. See where I'm going here? <wink>) Sure,
> > summaries and categories help set the reader on the right track...but at
> times,
> > they can be more of a hindrance than help to the author.
>

> Also amen to that! this wouldn't be personal, would it? I know where that's

> coming from, at least--as a steadfastedly non-MSR TXF writer I think I did

> lose readers along the way. It wasn't *quite* that bad though...

> (sidetrack--his wife? I think I can count male fanfic writers on one
> hand...and that's in TXF, I don't know any in TS, actually. It's sort of a

> female profession...) And categorizing can often be a pain, when you don't

> know where something fits...it's easy to say "humor" or "smarm" but then
> angst/action/humor/plot tends to get a wee bit confusin'...

Yeah, in TS slash, besides NC17 and X, the writers usually mark there
non-plot stories PWP. I guess the slash writers have their own sense of
humor, and the gen writers have their own brand of humor.

>
> Concerning the categorization examples--totally accurate (but

> Pendrell/Krycek? the mental picture alone is enough! ;) but I think if you

> even tried to suggest that to the poor Archive Elves of Guide Posts they'd
> probably come at you with their elfshot and their bows and arrows and their
> rocket launchers...they have their hands more than full.

I'd have to agree there, the Archive Elves DO have their hands more than
full just with the sheer volume of the stuff they must archive onto
Guide Posts. Sometimes it's left up to the writer to add the
summaries/warnings/ratings.

Categorization is
> probably not the route TS fic will follow, at least not for a while yet,
> especially w/ those limitations.

Probably not right now, but maybe soon. I just wouldn't go to the Elves
with it yet. They still have a large stockpile of weapons I'm sure.
<g>

>
> I personally would rather it stayed the way it is, slash, adult, gen being
> about the only dividers--everything on an equal standpoint, and we all
> bumbling through it having fun. JMHO, of course--but I'm a simple sorta gal,
> and like to keep life that way ;)

Yeah, and I guess that IS the point of life, but I'm glad that TXF
fanfic is the way it is, so you can look at the
ratings/warnings/summaries and then decide of you want to read the
story.

Star
sta...@mail.fwi.com

[StarGem]

Sairobi wrote:
>
> Hidey ho, Miss XmagicalX! Yes, I'm new around here, but I've been lurking for
> the past month or so until I'd actually seen more than two eps of the show in
> question....;-)
>

> <<argh! we're becoming an TXF type ng?>>
>

> A firm HELL, NO! I've heard horrors unimaginable outta there...<g>
>

> <<ahhhh-- er, no offense meant, please,
> it's just, atx, besides being too big, played too tough hardball for me, and
> atxc had similar problems...I prefer warm & squishy netlife.>>
>

> Agreed. Have you been to ATXC recently, per chance? The only reason why I ask
> is because it semi-pretains (Hey, I'm making a valid attempt at on-topicness.)
> to this whole categorization thing.
>

> <<Amen to that! 'course they do have the recs, and if you're looking for
> straight smarm you can find that just about annawhere... ;)>>
>

> <coughcough852PROSPECT!> Heehee. By the way, I've had a lot of trouble finding
> pure recs pages for senfic...I've hit all the "classics" but I have no clue

> where to start otherwise. Suggestions?
>

> <<I do wish occasionally for summaries. Titles are not enough to go by! but
> OTOH I have
> enough trouble trying to write summaries for my own fic...>>
>

> Ick. You'd think with a ninety-three page novel I could come up with more than
> "What if Pendrell didn't die?"....<wink>
>

> <<Also amen to that! this wouldn't be personal, would it?>>
>

> Psuedo-quasi-personal. I have a very good friend who is an *excellent* writer,
> but folks won't give her a chance because she hardly deals with Moose and

> Squirrel. (And here's the sad thing: she writes a half-hearted MSR and gets
> twice the email for her regular, brilliant work.) Plus....well....I won't go
> into the Nobody-Loves-Me-'Cuz-I-Don't-Write-A-Certain-Genre whine.
>

> <<I know where that's coming from, at least--as a steadfastedly non-MSR TXF
> writer I think I did lose readers along the way.>>
>

> Kindred sister! Not to sound arrogant, <smack smack> but I believe I'm a decent
> enough writer, who, if I dealt in everyone's favorite two agents, would
> probably get my feedback fix. But alas, I'm more of a minor character sorta

> gal; if I go into senfic, I would probably deal more with the

> Brown/Taggert/Rafe (Ryf? What the hell is the spelling on this guy? I'm a
> helpless newbie.) folks.

For your information, there is a senfic writer that actually
encorporates the minor chars into her own fanfic, the way the show
almost NEVER does. So don't feel bad about your own TXF fanfic
problems.

>
> << It wasn't *quite* that bad though...
> (sidetrack--his wife? I think I can count male fanfic writers on one
> hand...and that's in TXF, I don't know any in TS, actually. It's sort of a
> female profession...)>>
>

> Sorry, was going to say hubby, but somehow didn't seem right. <shrug>
>

> <<And categorizing can often be a pain, when you don't know where something
> fits...it's easy to say "humor" or "smarm" but then
> angst/action/humor/plot tends to get a wee bit confusin'...>>
>

> Exactly. And doncha love it when angst suddenly takes a romantic turn and you
> weren't forewarned? Retch. (By the way, I in NO WAY have a problemo with
> slash/romance. I just like to know ahead of time when sack hopping is going to
> occur.)

The same here. I would like to know of Jim or Blair are going to watch
sports together, or one of them is going to be romancing a women, or
each other.

>
> <<Concerning the categorization examples--totally accurate (but
> Pendrell/Krycek? the mental picture alone is enough! ;)>>
>

> Oh ho ho! It's actually very hot with the slash grrrls of XF fic. (Try:
> http://members.aol.com/canny409/picks.html and head to the *Socks* Shoppe link
> near the bottom. "Comeuppance" was the first series to deal with it, and wowee

> has it taken off! [But that doesn't save us from all the occasional odious

> pick..})

>
> <<but I think if you even tried to suggest that to the poor Archive Elves of
> Guide Posts they'd
> probably come at you with their elfshot and their bows and arrows and their

> rocket launchers...they have their hands more than full. Categorization is

> probably not the route TS fic will follow, at least not for a while yet,
> especially w/ those limitations>>.
>

> Frankly, I'd rather not see it go that route m'self. It's a pain in the butt to
> learn, and not that useful aside from weeding out the MSRs. <wink> However, I
> think summaries, however short, would be a *big* help. But that's only me.

In the case of the MSRs, summaries are a big help as far as TXF fanfic
goes, but I would probably not like to see TO MUCH of it as far as Jim
and Blair being with someone else is concerned, unless there was
something else involved, like the rape <el sucko> of one of the main
characters goes, or the death <el puk-o> of a main character goes.

There, I think that about does it. At least the Archive Elves should be
pleased that we are trying to iron things out here. <g>

Star
sta...@mail.fwi.com

[StarGem]

maha...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>
> <Mick waves at everyone>
>
> Back from vacation, and not an eyelid twitch or tight neck muscle
> remains! :)

Good for you. Where did you go, and how was it?

>
> Sairobi wrote:
>
> >> Hidey ho, Miss XmagicalX! Yes, I'm new around here, but I've been lurking for the past month or so until I'd actually seen more than two eps of the show in question....;-)<<
>
> Welcome, Sairobi. :)
>
> > <<argh! we're becoming an TXF type ng?>>
>
> God, I hope not.

I doubt it. This has TS written all over it. <g>

>
> >>A firm HELL, NO! I've heard horrors unimaginable outta there...<g><<
>
> Heck, I started in the alt.books.anne-rice ng, and if you didn't firmly
> avow that every word from Anne's carmine lips were like pearls cast
> before swine you were publicly staked out to have your hiney crisped by
> the rising sun!

Isn't that the truth. I still haven't gotten around to starting up a
collection of her Lestat books yet.

>
> With abar it wasn't the issue of how stories should be classified, but
> whether vampires could have a sexual relationship, what it would entail,
> and if so, were Lestat and Louis doing the wild thing? When fic started
> showing up (and it *had* to because Anne has a habit of creating really
> great background characters then totally ignoring them) they were so
> busy arguing these incredibly important points that the issue of
> categorization wasn't ever address!

And yet here, and on ATXC, those ARE very much addressed.

>
> Thank god for small favors.

I guess you can say that.

>
> > <<ahhhh-- er, no offense meant, please,
> > it's just, atx, besides being too big, played too tough hardball for me, and
> > atxc had similar problems...I prefer warm & squishy netlife.>>
> >
> > Agreed. Have you been to ATXC recently, per chance? The only reason why I ask
> > is because it semi-pretains (Hey, I'm making a valid attempt at on-topicness.)
> > to this whole categorization thing.
> >
> > <<Amen to that! 'course they do have the recs, and if you're looking for
> > straight smarm you can find that just about annawhere... ;)>>
> >
> > <coughcough852PROSPECT!> Heehee.
>
> Warning, ng sibs. 852 Prospect is a slash archive. <g> Smarm abounds,
> but it's slash smarm. Actually, with the TS boys it's kind of hard to
> tell gen smarm from slash smarm. :) Just stay away from those with the
> handy NC-17 warnings and you'll avoid being saddled with mental images
> you could have lived without. ;]

That's one of the points I tried to make with one of my posts tonight,
the stories I stay away from are the one's that deal with either the
rape of a main character, the death of a main character, or the stories
labled NC17 of X.

>
> >> By the way, I've had a lot of trouble finding pure recs pages for senfic...<<
>
> Now that you mention it, I don't think there *are* any rec pure rec
> pages for Senfic.

I don't think there are either. :(

>
> <<I've hit all the "classics" but I have no clue where to start
> otherwise. Suggestions?>>
>
> I could give you slash suggestions, but as far as gen stuff
> goes...<shrug> I've read some, but, frankly, didn't find anything that
> really stayed in my memory (other than Snake Oil).
>
> If you're looking for good TS slash, anything by Em Brunson or Brenda
> Antrim is a great place to start. Some other stand-out authors are Russ
> McMillan and the lady of shallot. If you want to split your sides
> laughing, go for Helmboy's stuff. torch, of XF and Voyager slash fame,
> is reputedly working on a TS story. You can bet that it will be worth a
> read when she's done with it.

What page will it be going up on? And what will the rating be? And
what about the rape, or death of a main character?

>
> Sorry I couldn't be more specific with my recommendations, but I tend to
> remember authors I like rather than individual story titles.

I know of a few gen authors I like. Some include Blair Kennedy,
Shelley, TAE, Cindy L. Combs. These are but three of the best TS fanfic
writers, and they are good. Cindy has some really good MacGyver/TS
x-over stories that are just good, although some deal with violence
towards a main TS character, but they are still good.

>
> >>Psuedo-quasi-personal. I have a very good friend who is an *excellent* writer, but folks won't give her a chance because she hardly deals with Moose and Squirrel.<<
>
> Who does she write? If it's Skinner fic, I need to know her name...
> <drool>

You would go for Skinner, now wouldnl't you Mick?

>
> > <<I know where that's coming from, at least--as a steadfastedly non-MSR TXF
> > writer I think I did lose readers along the way.>>
> >
> >>Kindred sister! Not to sound arrogant, <smack smack> but I believe I'm a decent enough writer, who, if I dealt in everyone's favorite two agents, would probably get my feedback fix. But alas, I'm more of a minor character sorta gal;<<
>
> I hear ya. It's more fun to play with the minor characters, you have
> nearly a blank page to work from, so any way you want to take the
> character is not going to trample all over canon.

Especially since minor characters are rarely used, even in the show.
TAE does some great stories that incorporate the minor characters in
with the story in a way the series hardly ever does.

She's the one I was talking about.

>
> And let me tell you, there's nothing worse than the Canon Police. <Mick
> flips off the Trek groups overzealous officers of Canon Law.> I mean,
> I'm all for accuracy, but some so called canonical points are, imho,
> interpretive--and therein lies the fun!

I see that as being one of the great things about reading fanfic, you
can interpret the story and characters any way you want.

>
> >> if I go into senfic, I would probably deal more with the Brown/Taggert/Rafe (Ryf? What the hell is the spelling on this guy? I'm a
> helpless newbie.) folks.<<
>
> The guy's real first name is Ryf, pronounced Rafe, and he's known as
> Detective Rafe (Rafe being the last name) on the show. No first name
> that we've every heard. Everyone just calls him Rafe.

That's about the only name I here whenever the character is on the show.
Also, another fanfic author I want to point out is Yvonne S. McCool.
Her stories are set in the future, so unless you grew up watching the
likes of Star Trek, Star Wars, or BattleStar Galactica, you probably
wouldn't be all that interested in them.

She is a TS fanfic author, in case any of you wanted to know. I don't
have the URL handy. Sorry. :(

>
> > << It wasn't *quite* that bad though...
> > (sidetrack--his wife? I think I can count male fanfic writers on one
> > hand...and that's in TXF, I don't know any in TS, actually. It's sort of a
> > female profession...)>>
>
> Lately, both XF and TS are picking up some male slash writers.
> Admittedly, they seem to be the same guys crossing fandoms, but it's
> definitely on the rise. (Two or three new guys posting stories in one
> month constitutes a rise. <g>)

Don't forget James Walkswithwind. I've read some of his stuff, and he
is quite a good slash writer.

>
> > Sorry, was going to say hubby, but somehow didn't seem right. <shrug>
> >
> > <<And categorizing can often be a pain, when you don't know where something
> > fits...it's easy to say "humor" or "smarm" but then
> > angst/action/humor/plot tends to get a wee bit confusin'...>>
> >
> >>Exactly. And doncha love it when angst suddenly takes a romantic turn and you weren't forewarned? Retch. (By the way, I in NO WAY have a problemo with slash/romance. I just like to know ahead of time when sack hopping is going to occur.)<<
>
> If you're an M/Ker like me, angst/slash/romance *is* a category! <BG>
>
> And us slashers would dearly love a warning of approaching 'het'
> interaction. Nothing worse that finding some Mary Sue suddenly crawling
> all over one half of your favorite slash pairing! <SHUDDER>

What does het refer too? The reason I ask, is because I keep seeing
that initialization in reference to fanfic.

>
> > <<Concerning the categorization examples--totally accurate (but
> > Pendrell/Krycek? the mental picture alone is enough! ;)>>
>
> You want mental pictures? I'll give ya mental pictures! <see below> }:]

I guess I will have to.

>
> > Oh ho ho! It's actually very hot with the slash grrrls of XF fic. (Try:
> > http://members.aol.com/canny409/picks.html and head to the *Socks* Shoppe link
> > near the bottom. "Comeuppance" was the first series to deal with it, and wowee
> > has it taken off!
>
> HA haaaaa! I remember the birth of Pendrell slash. It started over on
> the M/K list. Boy was that fun. <eg> Those MKers are a sick and twisted
> bunch (and I love ‘em to death). No one is safe from being slashed. Not
> Cancerman, Not the Lone Gunmen (yes there is Gunmen slash!), not even
> Mulder's dad.

I'm welling to bet that William Mulder got it on with Cancerman, before
he started down the road to lung cancer. <g>

>
> >>Categorization is probably not the route TS fic will follow, at least not for a while yet,
> > especially w/ those limitations<<.
>
> Er, you haven't seen the rules for posting to SXF (the Senad fic list)
> have you? <g>

Those are probably more strict than for gen, on the basis that most of
the general population is anti-gay at the moment.

>
> > Frankly, I'd rather not see it go that route m'self. It's a pain in the butt to
> > learn, and not that useful aside from weeding out the MSRs. <wink> However, I
> > think summaries, however short, would be a *big* help. But that's only me.
>
> I love summaries, but damned if I can write them. Brevity is not my
> strong suit. :)

Not mine either, which is why I only READ fanfic. I wouldn't know where
do begin writing a summary when I can even write a good story.

>
> Are there fen out there willing to write summaries for those of us who
> can't seem to?

For those of you writers who can't write their own summaries, I hope
that there are.

Star
sta...@mail.fwi.com
>
> Mick C.

[StarGem]

Isn't that the way the show IS anyway? I wouldn't change that canon for
anything. <g>

>
> And under no circumstances should *either* of them be popping babies like
> Tuesday's the end of the word as we know it.

Not unless one them got a sex-change operation. <g>

>
> <<The guy's real first name is Ryf, pronounced Rafe, and he's known as
> Detective Rafe (Rafe being the last name) on the show.>>
>
> So should I assume someone's confused when I see Ryf in fic? Or that the real
> world portal's been breached and we should run like the wind because pretty
> soon the folks from Days of Our Lives are going to be pouring out? (Including
> all six Hope's...)

God, I would hope not.

>
> <<No first name that we've every heard. Everyone just calls him Rafe.>>
>
> ....and thus, X-Files syndrome strikes again. (Scully! Mulder! Skinner! Krycek!
> [And to a lesser, more evil extent...Pendrell] These people *do* have first
> names, believe it or not!)

Yeah, and they are every bit as engaging as the names Jim Ellison and
Blair Sandburg.

>
> <<Lately, both XF and TS are picking up some male slash writers. Admittedly,
> they seem to be the same guys crossing fandoms, but it's definitely on the
> rise. (Two or three new guys posting stories in one month constitutes a rise.
> <g>)>>
>
> Finally. I'd like to think guys would know the peculiarities of their own
> anatomy better than us...

Which is why I like the guy written stories, because they DO know their
anatomy better. <g>

>
> <<If you're an M/Ker like me, angst/slash/romance *is* a category! <BG>>>
>
> Don't get me wrong, I have nooooo problem at *all* with angst/slash/romance, I
> just like to forewarned. That's all.
>
> <<And us slashers would dearly love a warning of approaching 'het' interaction.
> Nothing worse that finding some Mary Sue suddenly crawling all over one half of
> your favorite slash pairing! <SHUDDER>>>
>
> Ick. Ick. Yuck. Yuck.

Same here. I thing a Mary Sue is the equivilent of a BOTW. And I agree,
it is kind of bad. But then again, most BOTWs turn out to be complete
psychos anyway.

>
> <<HA haaaaa! I remember the birth of Pendrell slash.>>
>
> So do I, back in the Stone Ages. (I guess that dates us, huh?) I had never read
> slash before; someone sent me "Comeuppance"/"Portent"/"Dangerous". (Mmm,
> RussianPrince!Krycek. Yeah, that's right....screw cannon.) I was hooooooked.
>
> <<It started over on the M/K list. Boy was that fun. <eg> Those MKers are a
> sick and twisted
> bunch (and I love ‘em to death). No one is safe from being slashed. Not
> Cancerman, Not the Lone Gunmen (yes there is Gunmen slash!), not even Mulder's
> dad.>>

I bet even Mulders dad got it on with Cancerman before he headed down

the road to lung cancer.

>

> Yeppers. In fact-o, didn't Te just write a really great Langly/Byers?? I never
> got to read it, but I heard good things about it.

Langly and Byers? Ick, I wouldn't even have sex with Langly. Byers,
maybe.

>
> <<Er, you haven't seen the rules for posting to SXF (the Senad fic list)
> have you? <g>>>
>
> I saw. Is it stone cut law? Half of it seems awfully....anal. (And this is
> coming from someone in from the always retentive XF fic circles.

The slash has to be strict. Nowadays, almost half the country seems to
be anti-gay. Plus people always worry about what their kids are reading
on the web. Yuck.

>
> <<I love summaries, but damned if I can write them. Brevity is not my
> strong suit. :)
>
> Are there fen out there willing to write summaries for those of us who
> can't seem to?>>
>
> <raises hand> Of course, you would have to put past performance aside...;-)

You probably would.

Star
sta...@mail.fwi.com

[StarGem]

I agreed with a lot of it two. Just simple warnings such as the one's
that I have mentioned in my latest posts are good. They are simple and
won't give the story away.

Unlike the one's for TXF, those basically do. The one's labling a story
MSR, M/K <Mulder/Krycek> S/K <Scully/Krycek>, and the like.

This is one of my many posts on this subject. Read the others at your
own risk. <g>

Star
sta...@mail.fwi.com

[Casey]

maha...@ix.netcom.com wrote:

> If you're looking for good TS slash, anything by Em Brunson or Brenda
> Antrim is a great place to start. Some other stand-out authors are Russ
> McMillan and the lady of shallot. If you want to split your sides
> laughing, go for Helmboy's stuff. torch, of XF and Voyager slash fame,
> is reputedly working on a TS story. You can bet that it will be worth a
> read when she's done with it.
>

If I could add Paper Cranes by Deidre. It's a great first time story, not
quite as raw as Em Brunsons (who is my #1 writer BTW). I always recommend
this story for someone wanting to put a toe into the slash pool.

[Jean Baker]

Hi!

I've heard there is a general list called Cascade PD that has a large
group of fans on it. I can't seem to find any information about it on
any of the websites. Can anyone tell me how to subscribe?

Please reply privately as I have trouble getting on this ng some times.

Thanks
AJ

[StarGem]

maha...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>
> Sairobi wrote:
> >
> > <<<Mick waves at everyone>>>

:::Star waves to everyone:::

> >
> > <Sair waves back and manages to twist her wrist> Owies.
>
> Careful there. Wrists are needed for typing fanfic. :)

And typing on the ng. <g>

>
> > With abar it wasn't the issue of how stories should be classified, but
> > whether vampires could have a sexual relationship, what it would entail,
> > and if so, were Lestat and Louis doing the wild thing?>>
> >
> > I may be quite the fool here...but I thought the whole...ya
> > know...VAMPIRISM....deal didn't allow them to get it on. ;-)
>
> Try telling that to Lestat. <snerk>

Or to Louis for that matter. I wonder what Brad Pitt would feel about
that particular matter. <g>

>
> > <<When fic started
> > showing up (and it *had* to because Anne has a habit of creating really
> > great background characters then totally ignoring them)>>
> >
> > Or she takes a minor character, who was none too interesting from the start,
> > and writes a two hundred pages novel about NOTHING involving a character whom
> > you bear such a bored animosity to that....well...I lost my train of thought.
> > <ahem!Pandora!>
>
> LOL! Uh-oh. I happen to adore Pandora (and you need to check with her on
> that vampires don't have sex thing. <RBG>) I don't mind your derision
> though. I'm practiced at defending her (which I really won't get into
> here, because we are soooo off topic already <g>). I've suffered through
> her being know as "The Kumquat" for years now. I'm made to write her
> parts in group stories and such. I don't mind, because anyone who can so
> regularly cause the tight-assed Marius to lose his cool is okay with me.
> (Except for Lestat. The brat.)

Yeah, and on that matter, it was only Louis that I really fell in love
with after watching the movie. I've never read ANY of Anne's books yet.

>
> And if you want to read some of the best vamp-slash going, well, torch
> is your answer once again. Try "And death shall have no erection" and
> "Roman holiday III: Sex and the single vampire." (L&L the first one and
> a surprise combo of Marius and Santino for the last.) These are two of
> my personal faves. <pg> If you know torch's work, you know most likely
> have her webpage bookmarked already.
>
> > <<Warning, ng sibs. 852 Prospect is a slash archive. <g>>>
> >
> > <looks shocked> Nooooo!
>
> You'd be surprised how many folks don't know *what* slash is, let alone
> that there are HUGE archives of it. They blithely stumble into 852 - and
> leave with a whole new perspective. :)
>
> > <<Smarm abounds, but it's slash smarm. Actually, with the TS boys it's kind of
> > hard to
> > tell gen smarm from slash smarm. :) Just stay away from those with the handy
> > NC-17 warnings and you'll avoid being saddled with mental images you could have
> > lived without. ;]>>
> >
> > Heh. <goes into Jurassic Park Dos mode> Suuure, at first the smarm's fun...but
> > then there's the running...an-and the screaming...
>
> I love Jeff Goldblum(sp?). :)

I love Jeff Glodblum also. And Ethan was my favorite JP character
outside of Sam Neil, and Laura Dern. It was Ethan that I fell in love
with.

>
> > <<Now that you mention it, I don't think there *are* any rec pure rec pages for
> > Senfic.>>
> >
> > <raises eyebrows> Are y'all listening?
>
> <Mick hides>
>
> > <<If you're looking for good TS slash, anything by Em Brunson or Brenda
> > Antrim is a great place to start. Some other stand-out authors are Russ
> > McMillan and the lady of shallot.>>
> >
> > Mmm, the only one I've hit on that list is the Lady. Her name caught me...and
> > the rest is history. *Anybody* who can do decent things with such an overused
> > song as "I Don't Want to Wait" has my respect.
>
> Her "World Burning Down" is one of my personal favs, and her "New York,
> New York" is a favoirte as well. The girl is *good*. But, oh man, you've
> got to check out Em's "Dante" series too, you won't be sorry. Also,
> Em's "Detour" is one of the best TS AU's I've read.
>
> > <<torch, of XF and Voyager slash fame,
> > is reputedly working on a TS story. You can bet that it will be worth a read
> > when she's done with it.>>
> >
> > No WAY!
>
> Way. :)

I'll read it once it is finished. Just send my the URL via personal
e-mail, and I can put it in my folder.

>
> > Let the salivating begin! (That girl can do no wrong...)
>
> If you know A. Leigh-Anne Childe's stuff from M/Sk stories, you'll be
> pleased to know that she's lurking in TS too. I'm sure she'll succumb
> soon... <cackle!>

REAL soon. <big s**t eating grin>

>
> > <<Who does she write? If it's Skinner fic, I need to know her name...
> > <drool>>>
> >
> > Sorry. She's a bit more of a Krycek (Hey, I converted her. She thought he was a
> > lowly ratboy, but I showed her the way...<g>)and Pendy fan. (In fact, she was
> > one of the first to slash 'em--know who I'm talking about?)
>
> Yep. I certainly do. :)
>
> I didn't know you were a family member. Have I seen you in The Rathole?
> <G>
>
> > And when she gets really desperate....she writes Mulder/Scully. (Duh nuh NUH!)

Hey, don't dis M&S. They are a great duo.

>
> She must be cleansed.
>
> > <<I hear ya. It's more fun to play with the minor characters, you have nearly
> > a blank page to work from, so any way you want to take the character is not
> > going to trample all over canon.>>
> >
> > EXACTLY. I wouldn't call it a cop out, but playing the minor character field
> > allows you to be more creative. (Of course, you don't quite get the same love
> > for the major players...but it's worth it, IMO.)
> >
> > <<And let me tell you, there's nothing worse than the Canon Police. <Mick
> > flips off the Trek groups overzealous officers of Canon Law.> I mean,
> > I'm all for accuracy, but some so called canonical points are, imho,
> > interpretive--and therein lies the fun!>>
> >
> > Yikes! I've never heard "cannonical points"; care to share? About the only
> > cannon I require is the absolute non-usage of Fox/Dana/Celine Dion/And The
> > Requisite
> > Scully-Popping-Babies-Like-Tuesday's-The-End-Of-The-World-As-We-Know-It.
> ICK!

That IS a bad thing. <ick>

>
> (Which
> > loosely translates to: birth stories=ick.)
>
> <Mick stops to be sick in a wastebasket>
>
> > In TS, I would prefer it if Blair's the guy with the long hair and Jim's the big police dude...;-)

I like Blair myself. I also like Jim being the big police
dude-with-some-pretty-decent-superpowers. I hope that wasn't to much of
a mouthfull for some of you who still don't know that much about the
show.

>
> Fat chance. There's a list. <g> Nightowl's sight has it, I think.

Either Nightowl's or Rogue's pages have huge lists of stuff related to
TS.

>
> One of my favorite arguable points is the issue of Blair's father and
> whether or not Naomi knows who it is. Canon states that she doesn't
> know, but I think she *does* know and just isn't letting Blair in on the
> secret.

I just don't think she WANTS him to know, because she wanted him to grow
up to be his own person, and not what he thought his father would want
him to be.

However, if you are into speculation on the matter, Cindy L. Combs has a
few good stories posted onto Wolfpup's fanfiction page. The most direct
way to the stories is, http://members.tripod.com/~wolfpup/index.html.
Go there, and hers are the first group of stories that you come to.

>
> > And under no circumstances should *either* of them be popping babies like
> > Tuesday's the end of the word as we know it.
>
> HEEEEEE. Um, there's a really cute series out there along those lines...
> if I can remember the name, I'll let you know and you can judge for
> yourself. <eg>

Unless they're AU, then I doubt they would fly with the mainstream TS
crowd, since everyone KNOWS that males can't have babies. <BG>

>
> > <<The guy's real first name is Ryf, pronounced Rafe, and he's known as
> > Detective Rafe (Rafe being the last name) on the show.>>
> >
> > So should I assume someone's confused when I see Ryf in fic?
>
> Yep.

As am I. But in her fanfic, TAE spells the name Rafe.

>
> Or that the real
> > world portal's been breached and we should run like the wind because pretty
> > soon the folks from Days of Our Lives are going to be pouring out? (Including
> > all six Hope's...)

I would imagine so. <ick>

>
> Okay, I can see I'll have to ban coffee drinking when reading your
> posts. <Mick wipes off the monitor carefully>

Why do you think I haven't opened my Root Beer yet? <g>

>
> > <<No first name that we've every heard. Everyone just calls him Rafe.>>
> >
> > ....and thus, X-Files syndrome strikes again. (Scully! Mulder! Skinner! Krycek!
> > [And to a lesser, more evil extent...Pendrell] These people *do* have first
> > names, believe it or not!)
>
> Must be some law enforcement kind of thing.

Yeah, cops CAN'T have first names, but FBI agents CAN. That majorly
sucks. <g>

>
> > <<Lately, both XF and TS are picking up some male slash writers. Admittedly,
> > they seem to be the same guys crossing fandoms, but it's definitely on the
> > rise. (Two or three new guys posting stories in one month constitutes a rise.
> > <g>)>>
> >
> > Finally. I'd like to think guys would know the peculiarities of their own
> > anatomy better than us...
>
> They've been rather sweet about answering some rather blunt questions
> too. For the sake of research, you understand. :)

Yeah, especially the newbies. These people are going to be needing the
help of the ng if they're going to be able to write decent fic.

>
> > <<If you're an M/Ker like me, angst/slash/romance *is* a category! <BG>>>
> >
> > Don't get me wrong, I have nooooo problem at *all* with angst/slash/romance, I
> > just like to forewarned. That's all.
>
> <Mick points to Em's TS slash> Consider yourself forewarned. Also, be
> warned that Em's not into fluff...

Thanks for the warning Mick.

>
> > <<And us slashers would dearly love a warning of approaching 'het' interaction.
> > Nothing worse that finding some Mary Sue suddenly crawling all over one half of
> > your favorite slash pairing! <SHUDDER>>>
> >
> > Ick. Ick. Yuck. Yuck.

How about all over your favorite gen pairing. Even worse than having
Megan on the show. <g>

And don't get me started on Cassie Welles.

>
> :)
>
> > <<HA haaaaa! I remember the birth of Pendrell slash.>>
> >
> > So do I, back in the Stone Ages. (I guess that dates us, huh?) I had never read
> > slash before; someone sent me "Comeuppance"/"Portent"/"Dangerous".
>
> Ahhh. The classics. ;]

I think I saw those fics listed somewhere, but I can't remember where.
I think it was a TS page, although I could be wrong.

>
> >(Mmm, RussianPrince!Krycek. Yeah, that's right....screw cannon.) I was hooooooked.
> >
> > <<It started over on the M/K list. Boy was that fun. <eg> Those MKers are a
> > sick and twisted

> > bunch (and I love 粗m to death). No one is safe from being slashed. Not

> > Cancerman, Not the Lone Gunmen (yes there is Gunmen slash!), not even Mulder's
> > dad.>>
> >
> > Yeppers. In fact-o, didn't Te just write a really great Langly/Byers?? I never
> > got to read it, but I heard good things about it.
>
> What?!! I've missed this. Then again, I'm still computerless and having
> to get my ng fix wherever I can find access these days. <Mick curses the
> so-called Technical Support Gods>

Awwww, poor Mick. <g> I hope you get your own computer someday.

>
> > <<Er, you haven't seen the rules for posting to SXF (the Senad fic list)
> > have you? <g>>>
> >
> > I saw. Is it stone cut law? Half of it seems awfully....anal. (And this is
> > coming from someone in from the always retentive XF fic circles.
>
> If you're posting to SXF or to either of the archives it is. Death
> stories are a particularly touchy issue. There are Senners who will have
> a flaming cow if a main character dies in a story and you don't tell
> them right up front. Me, I don't wanna know in advance that Blair's
> going to get shot in the head and die at Jim's feet. I want to be right
> there in the land of shock with Jimbo when it happens. Differences like
> that caused the evolution of the "0/1 of ?" section. That "O" section is
> supposed to contain all the handy dandy category listings, warnings and
> summaries, allowing us to skip, tra-la-la, past them if we like.

I just don't like death stories in general, and it doesn't matter if it
is a gen or slash fic, I STILL won't like it if it is a death story.

>
> If you have your own web site you can, of course, do as you like. ;]
>
> > <<I love summaries, but damned if I can write them. Brevity is not my
> > strong suit. :)
> >
> > Are there fen out there willing to write summaries for those of us who
> > can't seem to?>>
> >
> > <raises hand> Of course, you would have to put past performance aside...;-)
>
> :)
>
> Be careful what you volunteer for in Senadia. You'll find yourself the
> official synopsizer before you can say "it's about friendship!"

That's telling her/him/it Mick. <g> And it IS about friendship, it's
just HOW you interprit that friendship. <g>

Star
sta...@mail.fwi.com
>
> Mick C.

[StarGem]

ek...@arctos.bowdoin.edu wrote:
>
> sai...@aol.com (Sairobi) wrote:
> > <<<Mick waves at everyone>>>
> >
> > <Sair waves back and manages to twist her wrist> Owies.
> >
> <XmagicalX jumps back in the pool--ouchie! COLD!>

It does get cold, especially if it is hot outside. <g>

>
> > <<Heck, I started in the alt.books.anne-rice ng, and if you didn't firmly
> > avow that every word from Anne's carmine lips were like pearls cast
> > before swine you were publicly staked out to have your hiney crisped by
> > the rising sun!
> >
> ahhh...sounds scarra!
> well, if we-all work together we can keep from becoming like that...lestways
> every word that falls from Our Heros' mouths isn't pure gold to me ("You drop
> them and they fall." ARGH! what was the writer *on*! ;)

Acid, LSD, Speed, Heroin. I guess any of those, in fact, I think I've
read some authors who's stories were like that. Basically, drug-induced
psychosis.

>
> > With abar it wasn't the issue of how stories should be classified, but
> > whether vampires could have a sexual relationship, what it would entail,
> > and if so, were Lestat and Louis doing the wild thing?>>
> >
> > I may be quite the fool here...but I thought the whole...ya
> > know...VAMPIRISM....deal didn't allow them to get it on. ;-)
> >
> that was my general impression...funny, I'm just re-reading these now. Pity
> about Queen of the Damned...TVL was so wonderful, too...& I've forgotten Body
> Thief ever happened...

I guess some of Anne's books aren't all that great. Am I right about
that?

>
> > <<Warning, ng sibs. 852 Prospect is a slash archive. <g>>>
> >
> > <looks shocked> Nooooo!
> >
> > <<Smarm abounds, but it's slash smarm. Actually, with the TS boys it's kind of
> > hard to
> > tell gen smarm from slash smarm. :) Just stay away from those with the handy
> > NC-17 warnings and you'll avoid being saddled with mental images you could
> have
> > lived without. ;]>>
> >
>
> ahh! Here I'm going to be hopping in and out of the conversation...I don't
> read slash. I dunno, can't quite see that either. Well, except M/K, and
> that was only 'cuz of the kiss in R&B, which was the only good part of the
> ep... Like I said, hopeless smarmer but not a romantic ;)

I like smarm myself, but I think that at least SOME slash is totally
tasteless.

>
> > <<Now that you mention it, I don't think there *are* any rec pure rec pages
> for
> > Senfic.>>
> >
> Well, there's one on GuidePosts but it's hopelessly random...there was another
> one *somewhere* but I lose web addies like nobody's business...

Which one is that? What part of the page?

>
> > <<If you're looking for good TS slash, anything by Em Brunson or Brenda
> > Antrim is a great place to start. Some other stand-out authors are Russ
> > McMillan and the lady of shallot.>>
>
> If you read any gen...Merry is lots of fun (if she'd finish Heart) Kris
> Williams is who everybody starts with (at least I did) and TAE I personally
> love...<ahem> I've got a couple things on GuidePosts too...{hopeless bid for
> readers--what can I say, I'm shameless! =) }

I've read TAE, Kris Williams, Laura Shomburg, and countless others who's
names ellude me at the moment.

>
> > Sorry. She's a bit more of a Krycek (Hey, I converted her. She thought he was
> a
> > lowly ratboy, but I showed her the way...<g>)and Pendy fan. (In fact, she was
> > one of the first to slash 'em--know who I'm talking about?)
> >
>
> any Krycek-conversion is a good thing...I'm still waiting for NL on TS. I
> mean, he is in Vancouver after all...

Until XF begins filming in LA in the next few weeks. But, yeah, I would
love to see him on TS. He's talented and cute as sin.

>
> > <<I hear ya. It's more fun to play with the minor characters, you have nearly
> > a blank page to work from, so any way you want to take the character is not
> > going to trample all over canon.>>
> >
> > EXACTLY. I wouldn't call it a cop out, but playing the minor character field
> > allows you to be more creative. (Of course, you don't quite get the same love
> > for the major players...but it's worth it, IMO.)
> >
>
> Of course when you go and make your own chars...I actually had pretty good
> response with that but I think it was 'cuz I wasn't *intending* them to
> become major...they just got out of hand. What was I saying? oh yeah--I
> like minor char stuff--with TXF, considering everything else written, there's
> nowhere else to go!

True, every other TXF author is writing about M/S, K/M, K/S, S/M, M/M,
that it's almost impossible to write anything orginal about them in
fanfic, so I can see where you like to write about minor characters.
I'm not a writer, but I've read a lot of fanfic, and I like Kris
Williams and TAE because they use the minor characters, and do a good
job at it.

>
> > <<And let me tell you, there's nothing worse than the Canon Police. <Mick
> > flips off the Trek groups overzealous officers of Canon Law.> I mean,
> > I'm all for accuracy, but some so called canonical points are, imho,
> > interpretive--and therein lies the fun!>>
> >
> > Yikes! I've never heard "cannonical points"; care to share? About the only
> > cannon I require is the absolute non-usage of Fox/Dana/Celine Dion/And The
> > Requisite
> > Scully-Popping-Babies-Like-Tuesday's-The-End-Of-The-World-As-We-Know-It.
> (Which
> > loosely translates to: birth stories=ick.) In TS, I would prefer it if
> Blair's
> > the guy with the long hair and Jim's the big police dude...;-)
> >
>
> I like your TXF canons... And TS's fic canons--half of 'em are made up
> anyhoo. Lots of authors have a tendency to make their own mini-AUs that
> cover and introduce what they want and skip the rest.

That's what I've noticed about TS fanfic, the authors are free to use
(or abuse) the characters anyway they can, and they have a lot of
history to cover. I don't think you can get away with that in any other
fandom except for Sliders. In that one, you have AU's within AU's.

>
> > So should I assume someone's confused when I see Ryf in fic? Or that the real
> > world portal's been breached and we should run like the wind because pretty
> > soon the folks from Days of Our Lives are going to be pouring out? (Including
> > all six Hope's...)
>
> Ryf is the actor's name, I believe...it's kinda baffling. I'm not even going
> to ask about the Days of Our Lives reference...

I didn't know that was the actors name? Do you have a full name on the
actor? Whoever he is, from what I've seen of him, he is CUTE. <g>

>
> >
> > <<No first name that we've every heard. Everyone just calls him Rafe.>>
> >
> > ....and thus, X-Files syndrome strikes again. (Scully! Mulder! Skinner!
> Krycek!
> > [And to a lesser, more evil extent...Pendrell] These people *do* have first
> > names, believe it or not!)
>
> Except Pendrell. and Kresge. unless you count that nameplate name John but I
> don't, that was the *actor's* name--er. Now that I've lost everybody...
> >
>
> > <<If you're an M/Ker like me, angst/slash/romance *is* a category! <BG>>>
> >
> > Don't get me wrong, I have nooooo problem at *all* with angst/slash/romance, I
> > just like to forewarned. That's all.
> >
>
> yipes! this is why categorization is a bad idea... M/K probably gets more
> readers than S/K at least..."Wheels" was one of my faves of my own work and I
> swear the lack of readers was due to putting Scully in the wrong set of
> arms...is it my fault she fits there so much better?

No, every reader has their own preferrence. I just prefer Scully with
Mulder.

Just the same way that in slash, I prefer Blair with Jim. Hell, I
prefer Blair with Jim anyway. <g>

>
> > <<It started over on the M/K list. Boy was that fun. <eg> Those MKers are a
> > sick and twisted

> > bunch (and I love ‘em to death). No one is safe from being slashed. Not

> > Cancerman, Not the Lone Gunmen (yes there is Gunmen slash!), not even Mulder's
> > dad.>>
> >
> You know, I think accidently stumbling across a CSM/Skinner piece early in my
> introduction to fanfic could be a reason behind my aversion to the field...

Sorry, CSM/Skinner pieces of fiction are diffenetly OUT.

>
> well, it may be OT but I'm havin' fun at least! I kinda miss atx...well,
> that's not accurate. I just miss X-philes...who'd've thought I'd find kindred
> spirits in another fandom? =) XmagicalX

I guess anyone would. Just look at me. I have so many different
fandoms, that I sometimes lose track of them. Now isn't that the most
pathetic thing you heard?

Star
sta...@mail.fwi.com

[Sairobi]

Star and Mick said (Together. In Unison. <g>):

<<<<<Mick waves at everyone>>>

:::Star waves to everyone:::>>

Hola, hola! Sit down and grab a margarita! Because this half-awake post is
going to be a bitch to read unless *reeeally* inebriated!

<<Careful there. Wrists are needed for typing fanfic. :)

And typing on the ng. <g>>>

Typing, schmyping. I send my messages via brain waves....ooga, I could just
wipe Ralph Fiennes up with a biscu--er.....oops.

<<<<Try telling that to Lestat. <snerk>>>

Or to Louis for that matter. I wonder what Brad Pitt would feel about
that particular matter. <g>>>

As long it results in more *neked* picturs of young Pitt at the beach, Sair's a
sated gal. ;-)

<<Yeah, and on that matter, it was only Louis that I really fell in love
with after watching the movie. I've never read ANY of Anne's books yet.>>

Then you'll really fall head over heels for the Mopey Prince (Mopey being an
affectionate term here.) once you read the fabled IWTV.

<<I love Jeff Glodblum also. And Ethan was my favorite JP character
outside of Sam Neil, and Laura Dern. It was Ethan that I fell in love with.>>

Okay, maybe it's just being half asleep and still picking the crusties from my
eyes, (Now *there's* something you needed to know, huh?) but I thought his name
was Ian.

<<<<Way. :)

I'll read it once it is finished. Just send my the URL via personal
e-mail, and I can put it in my folder.>>

Would now be a good time to toss in a hearty 'Me too, for the love of God, ME
TOO!'?

<<<< And when she gets really desperate....she writes Mulder/Scully. (Duh nuh
NUH!)

Hey, don't dis M&S. They are a great duo.>>

It's not that I don't agree with Moose and Squirrel; (<smack> Sorry.
Omnipresent nickname getting to me again...) I love ole' Fox and Dana in
Carter's universe. However, most fanfic writers are none too adept when taking
them out to play--hence, aversion to most M and S fic, and a scream from my
shadow fleeing into the sunset when the word 'MSR' comes into play.

<<That IS a bad thing. <ick>>>

Yep. It's funny how many folks forget that oops, Scully lost all of her
freakin' OVUM second season.

<<I like Blair myself. I also like Jim being the big police
dude-with-some-pretty-decent-superpowers.>>

Same here. But I like Blair more. <giggles>

<<I hope that wasn't to much of
a mouthfull for some of you who still don't know that much about the
show.>>

Oh, cripes. Now it's all spoiled. I suppose next you're going to reveal
something about that whole "Sentinel" deal...

<<<<One of my favorite arguable points is the issue of Blair's father and
whether or not Naomi knows who it is. Canon states that she doesn't
know, but I think she *does* know and just isn't letting Blair in on the
secret.

I just don't think she WANTS him to know, because she wanted him to grow
up to be his own person, and not what he thought his father would want
him to be.>>

So when does the Cigarette Smoking Man come into the picture here? ;-)

<<However, if you are into speculation on the matter, Cindy L. Combs has a
few good stories posted onto Wolfpup's fanfiction page. The most direct
way to the stories is, http://members.tripod.com/~wolfpup/index.html. Go
there, and hers are the first group of stories that you come to.>>

Grats. Argh!! Blaaaargh!! Make it stop!! Nooo moooore Fastball!

(Sorry. VH1 does *not* amuse this morn.)

<<<<HEEEEEE. Um, there's a really cute series out there along those lines...
if I can remember the name, I'll let you know and you can judge for
yourself. <eg>

Unless they're AU, then I doubt they would fly with the mainstream TS
crowd, since everyone KNOWS that males can't have babies. <BG>>>

Only if they're not Arnold Schwartiwhatever in the biggest bomb of 1994.

<<<< So should I assume someone's confused when I see Ryf in fic?

Yep.

As am I. But in her fanfic, TAE spells the name Rafe.>>

<raises hand timidly> Umm...I thought it was Rafe. The character.

<<<<Okay, I can see I'll have to ban coffee drinking when reading your
posts. <Mick wipes off the monitor carefully>

Why do you think I haven't opened my Root Beer yet? <g>>>

Awww, y'all, I'm so touched! You both sacrifice your thirst for the ng?! Come
here and give Auntie Sair (Not to be confused with Crazy Auntie Sair, who has
no internet access and lives in my attic. <pokes ceiling with broom> Heh heh.)
a group hug!!

<<<<Must be some law enforcement kind of thing.

Yeah, cops CAN'T have first names, but FBI agents CAN. That majorly
sucks. <g>>>

All except adorable LabBoys who get gunned down while drunk, for God's sake,
DRUNK, by Jeff Foxworthy lookalikes. (Who? Me? Still angry over Tempus Frackin'
Fugit? Not. At. All.)

<<<< They've been rather sweet about answering some rather blunt questions
too. For the sake of research, you understand. :)

Yeah, especially the newbies. These people are going to be needing the
help of the ng if they're going to be able to write decent fic.>>

Speaking of (And giggling from Mick's comment aside.), would either of y'all be
interested in beta-ing por mi? I've got some funk-daddy ideas--not quite to
fruition--but I'd love to have someone from here help.

>
<<<<<Mick points to Em's TS slash> Consider yourself forewarned. Also, be
warned that Em's not into fluff...

Thanks for the warning Mick.>>

But for being non-fluff, hot DAMN is that stuff good. The "Dante" stories are
excellent.

<<<<So do I, back in the Stone Ages. (I guess that dates us, huh?) I had never
read
slash before; someone sent me "Comeuppance"/"Portent"/"Dangerous".

Ahhh. The classics. ;]

I think I saw those fics listed somewhere, but I can't remember where.
I think it was a TS page, although I could be wrong.>>

Hmm. *That's* strange. All are XF fanfic by CiCi Lean, (Or one of her numerous
alter-egos.) "Comeuppance" being one of the the first P/K amd
"Portent"/"Dangerous" both falling into the M/K category.

<<Awwww, poor Mick. <g> I hope you get your own computer someday.>>

<waves again to Mick> You've got my sympathy too.

<<<< If you're posting to SXF or to either of the archives it is. Death
stories are a particularly touchy issue. There are Senners who will have
a flaming cow if a main character dies in a story and you don't tell
them right up front. Me, I don't wanna know in advance that Blair's
going to get shot in the head and die at Jim's feet. I want to be right
there in the land of shock with Jimbo when it happens. Differences like
that caused the evolution of the "0/1 of ?" section. That "O" section is
supposed to contain all the handy dandy category listings, warnings and
summaries, allowing us to skip, tra-la-la, past them if we like.

I just don't like death stories in general, and it doesn't matter if it is a
gen or slash fic, I STILL won't like it if it is a death story.>>

<looks at Mick> Hmmm....absolutely *heart-wrenching*
dying-on-the-basement-floor fic ring a bell? (Heehee. Not that I didn't love
every minute.)

<<<< Be careful what you volunteer for in Senadia. You'll find yourself the
official synopsizer before you can say "it's about friendship!"

That's telling her/him/it Mick. <g> And it IS about friendship, it's
just HOW you interprit that friendship. <g>>>

I like "her", but I can deal with "it" as long as it's a respectful "Miss It".
And how I interpret the relationship? Why hot monkey love, of course!

--Sairobi
Well, duh. ;-)