[MiSTed] Posts from alt.sci.time-travel [3/4]
Jamas Enright
[SOL returns with Tom and Crow doing something on the computer. Mike
comes in.]
MIKE: Watcha doing, guys?
CROW: We're looking for something. Just trying to find out about "Enter the
Dragon."
MIKE: You didn't believe him, did you?
TOM: Of course not. That's why we're looking. To prove him wrong.
MIKE: Just _where_ are you looking?
CROW: The Internet Movie Database.
MIKE: How did you get there?
TOM: Dr. F. has a permanent link set up.
CROW: Here we go. This only has the German release dates, but "Enter"
came out in Janurary '74, and "Return" came out in August '75.
MIKE: I don't know which programs P. R. (Phil) Houtz was watching, but it
obviously wasn't anywhere in this reality.
CROW: Hey, what's this list here? "Slackers", "Wax, Or A Discovery of
Television Amoung The Bees", "Vampire Hunter D.", "Dog Soldier: Shadows
Of The Past", "Night of the Lepus", "The Glass Jungle", "Waxwork II: Lost
in Time", "Pumaman", "Tobor", "Night of the Comet", "Frankenstein and the
Monster from Hell"?
MIKE: This must be a list Dr. F is preparing for us.
TOM: Quick, wipe it! Wipe it!
[Crow does so.]
ALL: Phew.
MIKE: They looked bad.
[Divers alarums.]
ALL: Argh!
[They enter the theatre and assume the positions.]
>Article 1850 of alt.sci.time-travel:
>Newsgroups: alt.sci.time-travel
>Path: comp.vuw.ac.nz!waikato!ames!enews.sgi.com!sgigate.sgi.com!swrinde!
>howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!i17
>From: i...@netcom.com (ALYAN)
TOM: Hey, look everyone. It's ALYAN!
>Subject: My thoughts on Time.
CROW: This shouldn't take to long.
>Message-ID: <i17DE7...@netcom.com>
>Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
>Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 07:31:41 GMT
>Lines: 148
MIKE: Try again, Crow.
>Sender: i...@netcom10.netcom.com
>
>
>I have a couple of questions.
CROW: So do I. Why am I having to suffer you?
>
>1. I am "convinced" that "time travel" is HOW IT WORKS.
TOM: Oooh. Nice question.
> So, it is not a matter of trying to figure out how to save Hiroshima,
> or postulate mechanisms to visit your greatgrandparents,
TOM: I wanna visit my greatgrandparents.
MIKE: Well, remember to postulate your mechanisms first.
> BUT WE SHOULD BE LOOKING AT how (what we want to call) TimeTravel
> is happening all the time.
CROW: WHY DOES HE SUDDENLY speak in a loud voice?
MIKE: He thinks we aren't listening to him?
CROW: But we aren't.
>
> Uh, as a question:
TOM: Finally. A question.
> Haven't you ever experienced thoughts in your own
> mind which did not logically follow from any past sequence of your
> thinking?
CROW: Like now? When none of your thoughts follow from nothing logical
whatsoever?
> Can you feel the difference between "trying" to figure out
> "how to timetravel" and simply realizing that "timetravel" is going
> on ALL THE (um) TIME.
CROW: I don't know. (um) Can I?
TOM: Is that an (um) question?
MIKE: It starts with (um) "Can you".
TOM: Yeah, but there's no (um) question mark.
MIKE: That's a pretty long way to go just for a little (um) grammer flame.
> It is literally a "change of heart" about this
> whole thing.
>
> Time Travel is not "Impossible".
> Time Travel is The Way It Works.
MIKE: Capitalisation: Your Guide To Avoiding Making Points.
>
>2. The MultiVerse model is very efficient in terms of "storage requirements":
> At a "decision point" (which I actually look at in terms of The Recognition
> Of A PENDING ISSUE... because the awareness of the existance of a CHOICE
> can be very subtle and such awareness can exist for a VERY LONG TIME before
> one actually commits to a decision one way or another... let alone ACTING
> (as opposed to "merely" mentally NOTICING!) according to the DECISION)
[Mike puts his finger up and traces the line across the screen, mouthing
the words.]
MIKE: Umm. Did anyone get that?
CROW: Nope.
TOM: Not a word.
>
> ...as I was saying, At a "decision point" (which is NOT tightly located in
> time, as per the above parenthetical diversion),
TOM: Argh! He's still going on about it! Make him stop!
[Mike pats Tom]
MIKE: There, there, Tom. It's not as bad as all that.
> the only Difference
> Between The Child-Universes is the (Binary? Spectrum-Like??) RESULT of the
> DECISION which spawns them.
TOM: Oo, oo. I think I have it. A DECISION, which may happen a LONG TIME
ago, spawns many Universes.
MIKE: No. It spawns EXACTLY the same Universes.
CROW: I think Alyan should STAY on his Medication.
>
> Jeez. I think it is important to stress!
MIKE: Exclamation marks!: Your Guide! To Stressing! In Really! Weird Ways!
CROW: I'm already far too stressed.
> that this "tree" of (binary??
> spectrum-like?? separation of)
TOM: I wish he'd make up his mind.
MIKE: I think his mind is just making this up.
CROW: I don't think he has a mind.
> daughter universes IS NOT tightly
> coupled to any "time" dimension in a clocklike sense...
> INSTEAD: navigation on this "tree(?)" is determined by the SET of
> DECISIONS which "address/identify/characterize" a given branch-point.
> "Mindset" as in Mind-settings, viewpoint-parameters, comes to mind.
TOM: AND NOW: reading this post is determined by a COMPLETE LUNY.
MIKE: who is known as "Doctor Forrestor/Dr. F/The Mad Scienist"
CROW: "Madman" as in irrational, hates us, comes to this man.
>
> This model seems so decoupled from the "standard" notion of clock-"time"
> that it becomes a good question to look at the SEQUENCE of decisions
> which got (gets!) one to a particular universe, its "decisional address",
> so to speak.
MIKE: So each universe had a "decisional address"?
TOM: Looks that way. I'd like to see the "I think I'll wear blue pants on
Tuesday" universe.
CROW: I'd like to see the "I think I'll wear no clothes today, as I am a
female" universe.
TOM: That was incredibly sexist, Crow.
CROW: Bite me.
>
> Is the
> TIME-ORDER (sequence)
> in which "one" (the universe-hopping mind)
> DECIDES == SELECTS among the Decision-Addressable-Universes
> is this ordering-in-time IMPORTANT?
CROW: Anyone?
MIKE: Is the time ordering in ordering-in-time important to selecting the
time ordering... ummm...
TOM: Is selecting time important in decisions, and does the order of
decisions in time... erm...
MIKE: Nope. He's got us.
>
> For example:
> Is there an * Important Difference * between
> FIRST
> CONVINCING ONESELF (uh, DECIDING) ((perhaps quite temporarily ... !))
TOM: Heaven forbid anything actually being permanent.
> that
> 1. "A BOOK'S COVER IS NOT IN ANY WAY RELATED TO ITS CONTENT."
> (...and all that this DECISION i-m-p-l-i-e-s...)
CROW: Let's SHOUT s-l-o-w-l-y.
> and then, SECOND, Deciding that
> 2. "THERE IS ONE, EXISTING, HIGHEST GOD WHO KNOWS ALL ABOUT ME."
> (...and all that this DECISION i-m-p-l-i-e-s...)
TOM&MIKE: YES! L-e-t-'-s.
>
> ... or doing it in the opposite order?
CROW: Over to you, Mike. Is believing in a god more important than
believing in a book?
MIKE: Important to what?
>
> Well, for one thing, look at the intermediate states involved,
> and then look at the moments-of-transition, during which one is
> probably feeling, throughout body and mind, and on the radio in his room,
> the effects of the ramifications of the Decisions being Made.
MIKE: So you can only decidion-travel if you're listening to a radio?
TOM: No, only if you're listening to a radio in *his* room.
>
> Certainly you have encountered people who haven't made an Important
> Decision in years... since they were in their late teens perhaps!
MIKE: [as husband] What shall we have for dinner tonight, honey?
CROW: [as wife] Gee, I haven't made a decision that big since I was 19.
> In a very real sense, such people are in suspended animation.
CROW: In a very real sense, you're mind is in suspended animation.
> Wierdly, the people with fixed Decisions seem to age faster, I think.
TOM: I think I'll have the chicken again tonight.
MIKE: My god, Tom. You've just aged 100 years!
> People whose Decision "tree" (location/settings) is free to morph
> as they see fit, well for one thing it is much harder to guess their ages.
CROW: I think I'll buy _Playboy_ instead of _Penthouse_, this week.
MIKE: I think I can guess _your_ age, Crow.
>
> "BUT WHAT DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH GOING BACK TO 1969 AND TAKING LSD
> WITH MY PARENTS?" (I wish!)
MIKE: Well, that's certainly what I'd first think of doing if I could
travel in time.
>
> Frankly I'm not exactly sure, you see, but there are timetravelling
> "angels" in my mind who have led me to write this, or should I say,
CROW: Or should I say, I've been listening to the voices in my head, and
I have no idea what any of this has to do with time travel, but I thought
I'd post anyway.
> I think that the whole way TIMETRAVEL is being looked at in this forum
> is blinding us guys to the actual nature of what our mind/s is/are doing,
> and to what we really WANT out of "timetravel".
TOM: Whereas them girls know exactly what they want out of "timetravel".
>
> For one thing, I think it is NECESSARY in looking at "actual" timetravel
> (having lunch with Cleopatra; joining in at Gettysburg) with a VERY
> flexible "Decision Tree", at least until a CORE DECISION BRANCH is reached
> which makes Timetravel feel less "impossible" to your heart.
TOM: If I didn't know better, I'd say this was Robert McElwaine posting
under a psudeonym.
CROW: What makes you think you know better?
> You can't
> achieve an "Understanding" of Timetravel if you carry around a DEEP-SEEDED
> (misspelling quite intended)
CROW: Abuse quite intended.
TOM: Y'know. Ratliff also apologises for his spelling mistakes.
MIKE: I don't think he considers this an unintentional mistake.
> belief/decision/fear/resignation/"sense"
> that you are trying to achieve something that "really doesn't happen"
> and that you are just "toying around with interesting (read go-nowhere)
> thought-pastries.
TOM: New 'thought-pastries'. Light and fluffy that really don't happen
and go-nowhere.
>
>3. People seemed to ignore the posting about Larry Niven's clue-drop, uh,
> I mean, science-fiction-story...
CROW: Larry Niven does not say the word of God.
> about how there may be an aspect to
> Time which manages to "minimize" the effects of certain decision and even
> actions.
TOM: Yes, you too can have your decisions and actions 'minimize'd.
CROW: Does that mean there'll be a little me running around deciding and
acting for me?
MIKE: <shudder> That doesn't bare thinking about.
>
> I have worked with graphics systems which draw "spline curves".
> In using these systems, the human artist/engineer adjusts a set of
> different types of "control points" which the System then obeys to
> slalom a nice curve into existence.
CROW: <as ABYAN> "And since I can draw nice curves, I now know everything
about time and space."
>
> A similar system could be used to write "novels":
TOM: How are "novels" different to novels?
MIKE: They're novel ABYAN-style!
> "This character needs to become a rich industrialist by the time
> World War 2 begins. He needs to marry the girl who steals the code
> machine for the British in chapter 17. His name needs to reflect his
> interest in building scale models of small New England towns."
TOM: This is how Tom Clancy got started.
>
> I hope by now you have developed the thought that perhaps we ourselves
> are living inside a really neat story(-line) generating system...
CROW: If so, we are now ready to begin. <evil laughter>
>
> ...which perhaps has a golf-course-like terrain of "necessary" events
> (and meta-events like "and here the media begins discussing the notion
> of a third sex in order to reify the concept of Thirdness"...)
> that, like powerful gravity-wells in story-plot-space, or like HOLE 14,
> MUST be dealt with before the "story" gets to HOLE 17...
TOM: First stories, now golf. ABYAN has a wide range of interests.
CROW: Why does the word "Acehole" come to mind?
>
>4. I touched on the idea of CORE DECISIONS above in a cuple of places.
CROW: And we're still trying to clena that mess up, thank you.
> Some decisions are more "central" than others, in that their ramifications
> include other, less "central" decisions.
TOM: Some decisions contain less important decisions, so they are more
important??
>
> It would be VERY INTERESTING to come up with a list (or map?) of
> these ISSUES. How many are there? What is their "structure"?
> Which is Numero Uno? Is there a small Elite clustering of VERY POWERFUL
> ISSUES?
CROW: I have enough trouble getting my issues of "Legion of Super Heroes"
into order.
>
> Take note that I want to treat these as ISSUES... to be used in
> navigating one's way through the structure they create/emanate/whatever.
TOM: They create!
CROW: They emanate!
MIKE: They whatever!
> Probably, Deciding CERTAIN Issues in one way INSTEAD OF in another way is
> necessary to "get to" universes in which one can time-travel... or
TOM: So, if you could redecide an old decision in another way, you'll end
up in another universe?
CROW: Yeah, but would anything really change?
MIKE: Nope.
> affect the story-writing machine... or make rubies appear in your pocket.
CROW: Well, not so much rubies as rubes.
>
>Well, I've said enough for one posting...
ALL: YAY!
>
>Ian Allen <i...@netcom.com>
>
>P.S. my favorite magic word is ALREADY.
CROW: My favourite magic word is BiteMe.
>BCNU
>
>
>
>
>--
>-------------------------------------------------"duh"------my email signature
>-------------------------------------------------"duh"------my email signature
>-------------------------------------------------"duh"------my email signature
>-------------------------------------------------"duh"------my email signature
ALL: <over-kill ROFTL>
>
>
>Article 1851 of alt.sci.time-travel:
>Path: comp.vuw.ac.nz!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.sprintlink.net!
>newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.uoregon.edu!sanjuan.amtsgi.bc.ca!
>domville.islandnet.com!user
>From: r...@IslandNet.com (RHB)
TOM: Yay! Another post form RHB!
MIKE: Tom, you are really sick.
>Newsgroups: alt.sci.time-travel
>Subject: 24th Message from Future
>Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 18:49:30 -0800
>Organization: IslandNet
>Lines: 89
>Message-ID: <rhb-3108951849300001
CROW: I'm not a number, I am a free being.
MIKE: I think that's been done before.
CROW: Well, I'm doing it again.
> @domville.islandnet.com>
>NNTP-Posting-Host: domville.islandnet.com
>
>The Messages from the Future can be obtained on the Web Page supplied to
>me by the mysterious four. Directions as follows.
>http://www.islandnet.com/~rhb/Future_Page.html
[Once again, our heroes try to hide the address]
[Continued in Part 4]