An apology, and a proposal
Daniel S. Rice
``misticization'' of the article _Hopping Mad Over MST3000_. After
much thought, most of it around 3 A.M., I see things in this way.
It is very natural for the Galbraiths to have taken my posting
as a personal attack. After all, they are not steeping in the context
of MST3K and of this newsgroup in the way that longtime readers would
be. From the tone of the email I received, I am convinced that they
were genuinely hurt and angered. For that, I apologize. I also
recognize that certain features of the posting were in poor taste, and
I would ask to be forgiven for them. It should be understood that my
satire was just that -- satire, and not a personal attack in any way.
Heck, I would be tickled if someone took the time and energy to turn
something I wrote into a source of laughter for readers of this group.
Perhaps that is a clue to why I am a fan of MST3K, and the Galbraiths,
as is their right, are not. The point is simply that I did what I did
with no intention of hurting anyone's feelings. Chalk it up to my
inability in this instance to see things from the eyes of another
before acting: irrespective of and justifications I may have for my
actions, someone was hurt, and thus I erred.
As an avid (ofttimes too avid) net reader of seven years
standing, I know that I have learned a great deal about myself and
about human relationships from this wonderful thing called usenet. If
Mr. Galbraith desires to learn from this experience, I feel certain
that we could hold a serious, flame-free discussion which would have
the potential to lead to interesting self-knowledge for the two of us
and for the other participants. However, such a conversation is
clearly not possible while one party stands threatened by legal
sanctions from the other. Mr. Galbraith, if you wish to come into
this group, say your piece, and leave, that is your right (netiquette
notwithstanding). If you wish to stay and follow this discussion
through to its conclusion, you are also very welcome to do so. I ask
only that you recognize that such threats are out of place in this
forum and act accordingly.
Yours,
Daniel Rice
Robert Everett Brunskill
<Fade in, Crow and Tom are at the computer yet again.>
Crow: Oh, now there's a post that will be realling in the flames.
Tom: No, come on. I'm sure that any reader would have enough sense and
decency to allow such oppinions to be voiced without makeing a snide
comment about the writer's mother.
Crow: Hmm. Doesn't look like there are any more replies for the next
couple days.
Tom: See? I told you. Oh look, there's one.
Crow: Right, I'll bring it up. Hmm, 'Dear sir, while we obviously
share different views, and I respect your position...'
Tom: See? I told you.
<Joel walks in.>
Joel: Hey guys, what are you up to?
Magic Voice: Commercial sign, in ten seconds...
Tom: Oh, we were just looking over this board, we haven't read it for a
couple weeks. Just seeing what's new.
Crow: Right, we're looking for some good flames. Some idiot posted an
extremely biased letter.
Joel: Now Crow, don't jump to such conclusions, you never know when
someone might be thinking it of you. Besides, I am sure the general
level of the readership would let such a thing slide if it were unbased.
Tom: That's what I was telling him Joel. There haven't been any
replies for at least three days.
Crow: Oh, here's another one. 'Dear Dickweed, I bet your mother...'
<Joel covers Crow's mouth.>
Joel: Oh, I think that's enough of that!
<Releases Crow's mouth.>
Crow: And look, the next twenty messages all have the same reply header.
Magic Voice: Commercial sign now.
Joel: We'll be right back.
<commercial, return with the three still around the computer.>
Tom: Hmm. Looks like all of them seem to include 'your mother', 'your
computer', or 'your dog'.
Crow: Hey Joel? Can we get in on this before it dies down? It looks
pretty fun!
Joel: No, Crow, look. It there are hardly any messages for the next
couple days....
Crow: Yeah, I guess you're right.
Tom: Nope, look, there's another fifteen all addressed today.
Crow: All right!
Joel: No, guys, that's it, I'm not letting you get involved with this.
Bots: Awww.
Joel: Look sharp, the mad sysops are calling.
<Deep 13, Dr F and Frank are standing behind a computer terminal,
looking at the mmonitor. Frank's and Dr.F's arms disappear behind the
terminal (the keyboard cannot be seen), and mad typing can be heard.>
Dr.F: Good day, poster-boy. Are you ready for the invention exchange?
<>
Joel: I just need a moment to get it together.
<>
Dr.F: Well then, Frank and I will start off. Well, we've been busy lately...
Frank: Yeah, trying to get fifteen to twenty posts out a day isn't easy.
Dr.F: Right Frank, and it can be especially difficult to come up with a
witty quote or zing for every one. Get out the disk Frank.
<Frank brings his arms up, and goes to a CD-ROM drive, ejects a disk,
and holds it up. The typing continues.>
Dr.F: What Frank holds in his hands is the product of a month of hard
work. It is the product of many minds, and many flames. Frank?
Frank: We call it the Disk-o-flame(tm). We have been scouring the
depths of the internet for every type of flame, slander, and insult
immaginable, shamelessly ripped them of, and creditted them to
ourselves, and have been using this WORM drive to write a CD that will
be ready for mass market. Every disk comes with the Infiniflame(tm)
garontee, "No two flames will ever be exactly alike."
Dr.F: To back up this claim we have written a long and lengthy code to
rival even the supposed 'Windows NT'. The idea is that it will take
pieces of the flames stored on the disk, and randomly edit bits together
into a single coherent flame... Well... It doesn't actually work yet,
but with over 1000 flames and after several 'library expansion disks' no
one will be able to tell the difference.
<As he speeks Dr.F folds his arms across his chest, but the typing sound
continues....>
Frank: And if they do, and complain, we'll just flame them! Ha ha ha ha ha!
<Dr.F shakes his head and goes back to typing.>
Dr.F: Projected street price is $59.95, and the cost for library disks
will be $49.95.
Frank: It even comes with a McElwaine mode!
<Frank points to some obscure sector of the disk, for some obscure reason.>
Dr.F: Let's not get into that, Frank. What do you have for us Joel?
<Much the same scene as before, but now Crow is sitting in a chair at
the computer that has rockets on the back...>
Crow: Just sit normally? Here?
Joel: Yes, go ahead and type. Oh, my invention this week is for those
who just can't seem to pull themselves away from the computer. What
I've done is I've scavenged a load of old computer parts and rewired
them into this chair along with a pressure sensor in the cussion.
Through a variety of cable connections, serial, parallel, or several
others you can plug the chair into your computer.
Tom: That's nice Joel, but what does it _do_?
Joel: Well, you just use the computer/os specific software to set the
chair's time limit. When that limit is up, you get ejected. Literally.
Tom: Neat.
Crow: Wait, what did you say?
Joel: I'll demonstrate. <turns to Tom and Crow, in a 'bad acting'
voice...> Now you boys have been on there for five hours... it is time
for bed.
Tom: Oh come on, just a few more minutes, please?
Crow: What did you say about a time limit? What is supposed...
<There is a boom and a puff of smoke.>
Crow: AAAAHHHH!!!!
Tom: Oh, wow.
<Crow gets up from the other side of Joel (ie, he went across the room).
He is heavily blackened and damaged.>
Crow caughs a few times.
Joel: Well, it still needs a little work. I'm also working on an
option that would allow you to use the chair as a mouse.
<Crow collapses.>
Joel: What do you think?
<>
Dr.F: I think we may have a new product Frank. Send us the plans Joel,
as-is. As for your post this week, well, I don't know much about it. I
think Frank got it? Frank?
Frank: Oh yeah, uh, I picked it up on uhm...
Dr.F: Where?
Frank: Uh, I forgot.
Dr.F: Ok, what is it?
Frank: I forgot.
Dr.F: Great, well, here's your post, and, well, read it.
<>
Tom: Hey Joel? Can I try the chair next?
Joel: I don't know, there are still a few bugs...
<Crow gets back up.>
Crow: A few?
<Message (Movie) Sign lights flash.>
Joel: I'll have to fix them later! We've got message sign!
G...6...5...4...3...2...1...
Excerpts from netnews.alt.tv.mst3k: 5-Oct-93 An apology, and a proposal by
Joel: You ok Crow? You look a bit winded.
Crow: No, no, I'll be fine. I'll just sit here and fall apart.
<Crow's back mask falls off.>
Joel: Don't worry, nothing a little glue can't fix.
Daniel S. Rice@enterpris
Tom: These are the voyages of the starship, Enterprise...
> From: ri...@enterprise.Berkeley.EDU (Daniel S. Rice)
> Subject: An apology, and a proposal
> Date: 5 Oct 1993 02:23:38 GMT
>
Crow: GMT?
Joel: Great Modern Technology?
Tom: Give Money To-me?
> The Galbraiths
Tom: Whoah, you've got to admit that is a mouth full.
> have asked that I apologize for my
> ``misticization''
Crow: Another complicated, nonsense word?
> of the article _Hopping Mad Over MST3000_.
Joel: Hey, he spelled 'K' wrong!
> After
> much thought, most of it around 3 A.M., I see things in this way.
>
Tom: Wait a minute? What way is he talking about?
Crow: Well, there are a lot of ways to see things at 3am.
Joel: I bet he's about to tell us.
> It is very natural for the Galbraiths to
Crow: Breathe, drink, and eat.
> have taken my posting
> as a personal attack.
Tom: Espacially when I posted several armed guards around their house.
> After all, they are not steeping in the context
Joel: Well, that sort of thing doesn't exactly sound legal.
> of MST3K and of this newsgroup in the way that longtime readers would
> be.
Joel: Oh! I see! Good natured ribbing!
> From the tone of the email I received,
Tom: And the letter-bomb that soon followed.
> I am convinced that they
Crow: Have put out a contract.
> were genuinely hurt and angered.
Joel: It's hot and ichy and it hurts and stuff...
> For that, I apologize.
Tom: For that, I also include this hired assasin!
Joel: Pshew! Pshew!
> I also
> recognize that certain features of the posting were in poor taste,
Crow: Oh, give it to Mikey, he'll eat anything.
> and
> I would ask to be forgiven for them.
Joel: Ah, forgive and forget.
Tom: Why forgive and forget, when you can fire and forget?
Crow: Incoming!
All: AAAAAHHHH!
> It should be understood that my
> satire was just that --
Crow: An evil and demented attack on your person for the purpose of
destroying your future?
> satire, and not a personal attack in any way.
Joel: Oh, I just love a good-natured ribbing.
All laugh goofily.
> Heck, I would be tickled if someone took the time and energy to
Tom: Tickle me.
> turn
> something I wrote into a source of laughter for readers of this group.
Joel: Right, like anyone has time to waste on doing something stupid
like that.
> Perhaps that is a clue to why I am a fan of MST3K, and the Galbraiths,
Crow: He's a fan of the Galbraiths? But I thought he didn't like them?
Joel: Well, you can be a fan of someone and still disagree with them.
> as is their right, are not.
Tom: Oh, there, that explained it.
> The point is simply that I did what I did
> with no intention of
Crow: Doing what I did.
> hurting anyone's feelings.
Tom: No, the hurt I _meant_ was more bodily.
> Chalk it up to my
> inability in this instance to see things from the eyes of another
Joel: Well, I think it's impossible to see _anything_ from the eyes of
another.
Crow: Eww, that is rather gross.
> before acting: irrespective of and justifications I may have for my
> actions, someone was hurt, and thus I erred.
>
Crow: Then someone breathed, and thus they aired.
Tom: Moving, moving.
> As an avid (ofttimes too avid)
Crow: Yeah, I'd say writing spotty fan fictions is a bit too avid... hey!
All start clearing their throats.
> net reader of seven years
> standing,
Tom: At no time did I ever sit or lay down!
> I know that I have learned a great deal about myself and
> about human relationships from this wonderful thing called usenet.
Crow: Oh now this is starting to get really sappy.
Joel: Come on Crow, it's not that bad.
> If
> Mr. Galbraith desires to learn from this experience, I feel certain
> that we could hold a serious,
Tom: Shoot out.
> flame-free discussion which would have
> the potential to lead to interesting self-knowledge for the two of us
Crow: And death for one of us.
> and for the other participants. However, such a conversation is
> clearly not possible
Joel: If you are a mute?
> while one party stands threatened by
Crow: Serious bodily harm.
> legal
> sanctions from the other. Mr. Galbraith,
Tom: Wait a minute? There is only one Galbraith? I thought there were
more of them?
> if you wish to come into
> this group, say your piece, and leave,
Crow: In pieces.
> that is your right (netiquette
> notwithstanding).
Joel: All though it seems that standing is very important to Mr. Rice.
> If you wish to stay and follow this discussion
> through to its conclusion, you are also very welcome to do so.
Tom: And what if he wasn't welcome? Could you even stop him?
> I ask
> only that you recognize that such threats
Tom: Wait a minute, what threats?
Joel: I think there were some threats of legal action made a long the way.
Crow: But what about the death threats?
Joel and Tom: Huh??
> are out of place in this
> forum
Crow: Because you can't kill someone through email.
> and act accordingly.
>
> Yours,
>
Tom: Mine?
> Daniel Rice
Joel: Thank you Daniel.
Crow: Lets get out of here before the bullets start flying.
...1...2...3...4...5...6...G...
Tom: You know Joel, that really wasn't too bad.
Joel: Yeah Tom, I think you're right.
Crow: Well I thought it was too sappy! I say don't give in without a
fight! Delete that stupid post right now!
Tom: Well only an idiot like you would think that way!
Crow: Oh yeah dickweed? What are you going to do about it with those
flimsy little arms of yours?!
Tom: Dickweed? Flimsy arms? Why I'll show you!
Joel: Guys! Guys! Stop it! Don't you see what you're doing? You're
only getting into the same levels that most flame wars take. First
someone states their position, sometimes a little too harshly, sometimes
not. Then someone replies to the first person, maybe a little harsher.
It just keeps escalating!
Crow: Oh yeah loser? Well who are you to talk? Get a life!
Tom: Yeah you fool. Put up or shut up! We were trying to have an
intelligent conversation when you so rudely butted in.
Crow: Oh? An intellegent conversation with you? I doubt that.
Tom: Oh, mr know-it-all netgod. Just because you see it that way means
it's true?
Joel: Thats it guys, I'm putting a stop to this.
<Joel turns off the bots.>
Joel: Just always remember, never argue with the guy who owns the
switch. Look alive, the flame-throwers are calling.
<Deep 13.>
Dr.F: That was no where near bad quality Frank! What were you thinking?
Frank: Well, it did have an interesting outcome.
Dr.F: I suppose you're right, but I don't want any more oppologies sent
to them from now on, got that?
Frank: Yes, sir.
Dr.F: Oh, hello Joel, I trust the reading was painful?
<>
Joel: No, it was fine. Kind of a refreshing break.
<>
Dr.F: Uh, well, yes. I suppose we can't do evil all the time, can we?
Well, until next time. Push the button Frank.
<Frank pushes the button...>
\ | /
\|/
---O---
/|\
/ | \
Credits:
MSTified by Rob Brunskill
Disclaimer: MST3K and related characters/settings/situations are the
property of BBI, however they had nothing to do with writing this up.
This mistification was done for the express purpose of entertainment,
and is not meant as a personnal attack on the original author(s) in any
way.
Rob
----
Daniel Rice:
> It should be understood that my
> satire was just that -- satire...
----
Harlan Freilicher
Gotta agree with Daniel Rice on this. It'sall a question of context and
culture. To the outsider, I suppose his response to Stuart Galbraith's article
could appear to be a fairly vicious attack. But to MiSTies, it's understood to
be all in fun. As Frank said to Morrisey, "We're basically evil, but most of
what goes on here is just good-natured ribbing."
Harlan
P.S. Creepy Crawlers are back on the market!
P.P.S. Anybody else catch the attack with a forklift reference on
Murphy Brown last night? It's spreading!
--
_________________________________________________________________________
| Harlan Freilicher | "Quit complaining! We killed it before we |
| har...@acpub.duke.edu | stuffed it in there, didn't we?" Crow T. Robot |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Randall P Devol
. . . <Brilliant MST'ing of a post deleted> . . .
>
>Credits:
>
>MSTified by Rob Brunskill
>Disclaimer: MST3K and related characters/settings/situations are the
>property of BBI, however they had nothing to do with writing this up.
>This mistification was done for the express purpose of entertainment,
>and is not meant as a personnal attack on the original author(s) in any
>way.
>
>Rob
>
>----
>Daniel Rice:
>> It should be understood that my
>> satire was just that -- satire...
>
>----
Keep circulating the followups.
G. Galcik
>However, such a conversation is
>clearly not possible while one party stands threatened by legal
>sanctions from the other.
Cute. Real cute. So much for honoring creativity of the artist.
Hey, here's a fun thought: imagine the paradoxical implications for Stu when
mst3k makes a movie.
------------------------------ --- ------------------------------------
Greg Galcik | gal...@sinbad.navsses.navy.mil
An Equal Opportunity Annoyer. | tmbg - mst3k - zweblo (with umlaut)
-----------My Extremely Tiny FTP Server: spider.navsses.navy.mil-----------
David C. Tuttle
> ...From the tone of the email I received, I am convinced that they
> were genuinely hurt and angered. For that, I apologize...
If Mr. Galbraith really is (or really wants to be) a TV critic, or any
kind of published critic, he should develop a thicker skin than he has.
It's just a show, he should really just relax...
--
David C. Tuttle, Biomathematics ----> d...@odin.mda.uth.tmc.edu <----
University of Texas M.D. Anderson Cancer Center +1 713 792 2606
Mail Stop 237, 1515 Holcombe Boulevard, Houston, TX 77030-4096 USA
Today's anagram of "David Charles Tuttle" is: THUD AT DRASTIC LEVEL
Michael Cummings
> The Galbraiths have asked that I apologize for my
>``misticization'' of the article _Hopping Mad Over MST3000_.
I take this as further evidence that Mr. Galbraith has a diminished
sense of humor.
[deletia]
>Mr. Galbraith, if you wish to come into
>this group, say your piece, and leave, that is your right (netiquette
>notwithstanding).
Which he seems to have done. Can dish it out, but can't take it.
I can see how the format of your post, since it actually quotes
most (all?) of his article would annoy him. But I can't see how he was
really damaged by this.
I found his "Hopping Mad" article offensive, too. He refers to BBI
as talentless, gutless, etc. He then goes on to condemn people who ruined
his movie experience not as thoughtless individuals, but as a bunch of
automatons who were essentially forced by mst3k to do what they did. The
"logic" is really emotion. He had a bad time, and made a venomous blanket
attack on mst3k and its fans. He should at least be willing to put up with
the inevitable retorts in kind.
--
Michael Cummings NX7E
cumm...@u.washington.edu
"To be hit by Moriyama's fastball is an honor exceeded only by being
crushed under the wheels of the Imperial carriage." - _You Gotta Have Wa_
James Craig Lowery
> The Galbraiths have asked that I apologize for my
>``misticization'' of the article _Hopping Mad Over MST3000_.
Oh, they're hurt and upset, huh. BOO HOO! They sound as PC as a
dumb spotted owl! This kind of double standard is typical. I, for
one, very much enjoyed your "mistification" of the article. It may
have broken some kind of copyright law, however, and it would be just
like Stu (from what we know of him) to hide behind threatening legal
action in order to shut you up. Yep. Typical. Pretty much.
--
Craig Lowery inet: low...@csc.mc.edu
Dept of Math and Computer Science (601)925-3217
Mississippi College PO BOX 4025, Clinton, MS 39058
Ben Scott
> It is very natural for the Galbraiths to have taken my posting
> as a personal attack. After all, they are not steeping in the context
> of MST3K and of this newsgroup in the way that longtime readers would
> be. From the tone of the email I received, I am convinced that they
> were genuinely hurt and angered.
Give me a break. This guy comes into a newsgroup specific to a show known
to generate a fanatic following second to none, and, completely unprovoked,
proceeds to attack the show - a personal attack couched in absurd rationale.
This is, as you say, his right. It is equally everyone else's right to
attack him in return, should they be so moved. Whether or not he is
familiar with Usenet per se is irrelevant. If he wants to post on Usenet he
implicitly accepts the consequences, just as he must implicitly accept reply
letters if he were to write a letter to the editor of a newspaper, or, to
take another example completely at random, a review for a magazine. I can't
believe that your post was the only negative reply he got from either
article. Furthermore, taking your message personally was entirely up to
him. Doesn't matter whether you cast doubt on his good taste or his
ancestry, in whatever terminology, it's still his choice to be offended.
I believe most of the obviously inflammatory messages posted to the net are
simply to get attention. It's the one thing you're guaranteed to get...
probably half the replies will be more or less polite rebuttals, which are
pointless since anyone capable of understanding the rebuttal could probably
have found the fallacies by themselves; and hotheaded insults which
accomplish even less. And I bet they get at least twice as many private
Email replies, for even more fun. They don't care whether or not they
convince anyone, or whether anyone can out-argue them, they just like to
stir up a big ruckus. I bet they enjoy even more seeing people posting
about how much bandwidth it wastes to post messages...
The only way to not be part of the problem is to not be part of the problem!
Don't reply, or if you must, reply privately, and save us all a lot of
trouble. I normally follow this rule myself, but this particular issue
needed (IMHO) to be clarified, and I thought while I was here I'd append a
little sermon paragraph or two...
. <<<<Infinite K>>>>
--
|Ben Scott, professional goof-off and consultant at The Raster Image, Denver.|
|Internet: bsc...@nyx.cs.du.edu, or call the Arvada 68K BBS at (303)424-6208.|
|"Don't tug on that - you never know what ][ The Raster Image IS responsible |
|it might be attached to." Buckaroo Banzai][for everything I say! |Amiga4000!|
Leesa J Kern
Tuttle) writes:
>ri...@enterprise.Berkeley.EDU (Daniel S. Rice) writes:
>
>> ...From the tone of the email I received, I am convinced that they
>> were genuinely hurt and angered. For that, I apologize...
>
>If Mr. Galbraith really is (or really wants to be) a TV critic, or any
>kind of published critic, he should develop a thicker skin than he has.
>
>It's just a show, he should really just relax...
As I'm sure we all should....
Pardon my ignorance, but what exactly are his grounds for threatened legal
action? We didn't like is opinion and told him so?
The MiSTed version I saw was the same one he posted to the net, wasnn't it?
Perhaps Mr. Galbraith was unaware of the tendency for persons to include
previous posts in their responses.
******************************************************************************
Leesa J. Kern lk...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
Dept. of Sociology, OSU
With all the socialization I've gone through, it's hard to say whose ideas are
expressed here!
>>>Support Freedom of Choice: LONG LIVE VINYL LP'S<<<
******************************************************************************
Greg Bandy
they think they are.
I am *so* tired of people that try to spoil other people's good
times.
Daniel, I enjoyed your MSTing post very much and I think your
follow up post showed real class. I hope others take a lesson from
you.
________________________
Greg Bandy
Richmond, VA
USA
gba...@hunter.win.net
CIS 71331,142
Mark Meyer
> kind of published critic, he should develop a thicker skin than he has.
Darn, ya beat me to it. Prognosis: acute hypodermia, possibly
terminal.
--
Mark Meyer | mme...@dseg.ti.com |
Texas Instruments, Inc., Plano TX +--------------------+
Every day, Jerry Junkins is grateful that I don't speak for TI.
Drug lords' new slogan: "Confiscate all you want. We'll make more."
Ron Asbestos Dippold
> The Galbraiths have asked that I apologize for my
>``misticization'' of the article _Hopping Mad Over MST3000_.
Buncha whining weenies. They call BB talentless, gutless, and other nasty
things, then complain when their polemics gets MSTied as it richly
deserved. They're used to targets who can't fight back.
--
Between grand theft and a legal fee, there only stands a law degree.