[MiSTied] The "Saturn Myth" and modern science IV
Keith Williams
Comments and criticisms are welcomed (all criticisms please file to the left,
where you will be met by a nice gentleman with a flame thrower...Just
kidding).
MiSTing Copyright (c) October, 1994 by Kurris (a.k.a. Keith Williams)
Original article Copyright (c) 1994 by David Talbott.
P.S. I have never even *heard* of David Talbott before this post, so, Dave,
if you read this, I hope you won't be offended. -K
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[] Kurris (aka Keith Williams) will...@aix.wingra.com []
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[ Love Theme of MST3K ]
[ ...6...5...4...3...2...1...<> ]
[ SOL Bridge -- Mike and Crow are seated at an elegant table, the likes of
which you would normally find at an outdoor French cafe or coffee house.
Mike is wearing a beret and neckerchief. Crow is similarly adorned. They
are both holding steaming cups of coffee. ]
[ Tom pokes his head in from the lower right hand corner of the screen ]
SERVO: [hushed voice] What Mike and Crow don't know is that we've replaced
the fine coffee that is normally served on the Satellite of Love with
a very special blend... [withdraws]
MIKE: It's nice to take a break from the work-a-day world of bad fanfic
and incomprehensible posts to relax with a hot cup of coffee, isn't
it?
CROW: I love the way it calms me down and revs me up, all at the same
time.
MIKE: [nods, smiling] It's funny that way.
VOICE: Commercial sign in 15 seconds.
[ They both take a sip and immediately go into convulsions. Mike sprays
coffee from his mouth as he coughs and sputters. Crow flails his arms
wildly and falls over backward, toppling his chair and the table. ]
[ Tom pokes his head back in ]
SERVO: Hamdinger Crystals (tm). Serve it at *your* next gathering and
see what a difference it makes. [withdraws]
VOICE: Commercial sign in 5 seconds.
CROW: [regaining his feet] What *was* that stuff.
MIKE: [rubbing his tongue with a napkin] I thon't know [coughs]. But it
reminded me of farm living.
VOICE: Commercial sign now.
MIKE: We'll be right back, folks.
CROW: [aack!]
MIKE: [hits the button]
< Commercials >
[ SOL Bridge -- The table and chairs are gone. Tom, Crow and Mike are all
standing behind the console. Mike looks decidedly peaked. Crow is
panting. ]
SERVO: Hey, what's got into you guys?
CROW: Someone spiked our drinks.
MIKE: Yeah, what do you suppose that stuff was?
CROW: Tasted like freeze dried hamdingers to me. Yeck!
SERVO: Really? Sounds like a good idea to me.
MIKE & CROW: [shake their heads]
[ The mad's light flashes ]
MIKE: Hold on, guys, Rufus and Moe are calling. [hits the button]
[ Deep 13 -- Dr. F squints at the camera through his black rimmed glasses.
Frank is nowhere in sight. ]
DR. F: Well, my troublesome trio, how are things up there?
[ SOL ]
CROW: Not bad.
SERVO: Pretty good.
MIKE: I'm glad you asked...
[ cut to Deep 13 ]
DR. F: That's enough. You've obviously mistaking me for someone who cares.
[ Frank wanders into the frame. He's holding a small black box with the
letters "U.P.C.T. (tm, patent pending)" stencilled on its side. ]
FRANK: Oh, Clay...
DR. F: [cringing] What is it now, Frank?
FRANK: I think it's ready.
DR. F: Ah, good boy Frank, there's a liv-a-snap with your name on it in the
cupboard.
FRANK: [with glee] Oh, boy! [hands Dr. F the box and skips out of the shot]
DR. F: Now, boys, you've all heard about the latest rage of being
"Politically Correct," haven't you?
[ SOL ]
ALL: Yeah...
[ Deep 13 ]
DR. F: Well, I've found that the stress associated with constantly
monitoring your thoughts and speech can cause high blood pressure,
heart attacks and, in severe cases, even death.
[ Frank wanders into the background, munching on a liv-a-snap and rubbing
his tummy. ]
DR. F: This is not a pleasant situation.
[ SOL ]
[ Mike, Tom and Crow glance at each other ]
SERVO: He's right!
MIKE: He sure is, Tom. [sounding suspicious] I'm just surprised it
occurred to him.
CROW: Me too. What's up?
[ Deep 13 ]
DR. F: Which leads me to this week's invention. The UPCT (tm, patent
pending).
[ SOL ]
CROW: Under-Privileged Collie Temps?
SERVO: Upscale Positive-minded Connecticut Turnpike?
MIKE: Unusually Perverse Cancer Treatment?
CROW & SERVO: [double-take on Mike] Eeuww!
[ Deep 13 ]
DR. F: [laughs] No, wrong on all counts. It's the...
FRANK: May I?
DR. F: [cringes] Oh, Frank, go ahead.
FRANK: [beaming] Thanks, Clay. [announcer voice] Why, it's the Universal
Political Correctness Translator!
[ SOL ]
ALL: [blank looks]
[ Deep 13 ]
DR. F: That's right Frank. My invention spares you from having to constantly
worry about whether what you've just said is the right thing, or
completely insensitive to someone else's feelings.
FRANK: [nods along with Dr. F's words]
DR. F: Because, with the UPCT (tm, patent pending) *everything* you say will
be instantly translated into the perfectly politically *incorrect*
word or phrase!!
FRANK: [laughs]
[ SOL ]
MIKE: That's evil.
[ Deep 13 ]
BOTH: Thank you.
FRANK: Just think about what this means. Everywhere, whenever anyone is
communicating with someone else, their nice, kindhearted regards
will be turned into spiteful, loathsome, backstabbing, but pithy,
jokes and innuendoes.
DR. F: You've captured the essence, Frank. Once I turn on the UPCT (tm,
patent pending), the entire world will grind to a halt! No one
will be able to carry on a conversation! War will erupt! Famine
will spread!! I WILL RULE THE WORLD!!!!
[ SOL ]
SERVO: Whoa!! Mike, we've got to stop him!
CROW: He's right, Mike! If Dr. Forrester turns on that machine, we're all
done for!
[ Mike looks desperately around the control room for some means of stopping
the evil doctor, but finds nothing. ]
[ Deep 13 ]
DR. F: Would you do the honours, Frank?
FRANK: I'd be glad to.
[ Dr. F extends the machine to Frank, who, with great drama, pushes the
button. Nothing happens ]
DR. F: What the...?
[ Frank pushes the button again, but, still, nothing happens. Dr. F
examines the machine closely, shaking it a few times. He turns it over
and opens a compartment on the bottom of the unit. He reaches inside and
withdraws a D-sized battery. It is white, with a black stripe. The
words "Generic Brand" are stamped on its side. ]
DR. F: Frank, you idiot! I told you to buy Energizers!!
FRANK: [whining] But these were cheaper.
[ Dr. F hefts the machine and slams it down on Frank's head ]
[ SOL ]
ALL: We're saved!
[ Deep 13 ]
[ Frank totters and then falls to the floor. The shattered remains of the
UPCT (tm, patent pending) are scattered around his head ]
DR. F: That's what you think, my trained seals. Next up, a deliciously
perverse little post that will, I assure you, inspire *very* deep
hurting. Send them the post, Frank.
FRANK: [moans, raises his arm, lets it fall back to the floor]
DR. F: Oh, very well, you wuss, *I'll* send them the post.
[ SOL ]
SERVO: *That* was close.
MIKE: Sure was.
[ Lights flash, sirens blare ]
ALL: WE HAVE POSTING SIGN!!!
[ <>...1...2...3...4...5...6... ]
> Article: 14299 of alt.paranormal
CROW: [with increasing agitation] They're out to get me! I can't sleep,
I can't eat. THEY'RE *EVERYWHERE*!!
MIKE: No, Crow, that would be alt.paranoia.
CROW: Oh. [settles down]
> Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,alt.astrology,
> alt.paranormal
> Path: news.cic.net!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!
> howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!yeshua.marcam.com!
> charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!csusac!csus.edu!netcom.com!dtalbott
SERVO: [singing] Around the world and back again...
CROW: And still without a coherent thought.
MIKE: Now, Crow, how do you know that? It hasn't even started yet.
CROW: Like the mads would send us any other kind.
MIKE: Oh, yeah.
> From: dtal...@netcom.com (Dave Talbott)
> Subject: The "Saturn Myth"
SERVO: There *is* no "Saturn," can't you just accept it! It was all a hoax.
> and modern science IV
MIKE: The voyage home.
CROW: Uh, Mike.
> Message-ID: <dtalbottC...@netcom.com>
> Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
> Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 03:02:34 GMT
> Lines: 272
SERVO: Hold tight, boys, it's a long one.
> Xref: news.cic.net talk.religion.newage:29191 alt.alien.visitors:43251
> alt.astrology:28160 alt.paranormal:14299
>
>
>
> The following post continues my
CROW: Search for a meaningful and lasting relationship.
> introductory look at the Saturn thesis,
SERVO: Saturn: Myth or Reality. But, first, a word from our sponsor.
> using a question and answer format.
CROW: Does he mean that the answers will follow in a later post?
MIKE: No, I think he means we'll be playing "20 questions" later.
SERVO & CROW: Great!!
> The fifth and final installment in
> this talk group will be posted tomorrow,
CROW: Providing the planets are in the proper alignment.
> and all remaining posts on the
> subject will be to the group talk.origins. We would enjoy your
> participation in the continuing discussion.
SERVO & CROW: [pleading] Can we, Mike? Huh? Can we? Pleeease!
MIKE: Settle down fellas, we can all participate later.
SERVO & CROW: Oh, BOY!!
>
>
>
> PERHAPS SHOWING THAT MYTHICAL IMAGES ARE UNRELATED TO THE PRESENT SKY IS
> A LOT EASIER THAN PROVING THAT YOUR THESIS WILL ACCOUNT FOR THESE IMAGES.
CROW: In other words, he doesn't really know what he's talking about, does
he?
MIKE: Do they ever?
>
> That's where the second test comes in,
SERVO: The test to determine if your deodorant really *is* strong enough
for a man.
> because it's in the very nature of
> a unified theory that
MIKE: States everybody should just try to get along.
> it claims to explain the entire field of data.
SERVO: [old codger voice] Ah, field of data? Yeah, that's right there next
to that field of dreams, isn't it?
> Now
> if the field of data means all of the recurring themes of myth,
MIKE: Duh, what *else* would it mean.
> the acid
> test
CROW: BURNS! It really BURNS!!
> is clear. Will the Saturn thesis account for all mythical themes
> acknowledged by comparative mythologists?
SERVO: We'll be discounting the themes of the abstract mythologists, since
they're all a bunch of pansies.
>
> Nothing would seem more arrogant or more foolish than such a claim. But
> there's a distinct advantage in stating the claim so categorically.
MIKE: That advantage being that people, knowing what you think they said,
will respond with thoughts that I know you said, which can lead to
words that I think you know I wish I'd said. Which should make
everything crystal clear.
SERVO & CROW: WHAT?!!?
> If
> you think this claim is preposterous,
SERVO: And we do.
> you're saying to yourself it
> couldn't *possibly* be true.
ALL: [in a litany] It can't be true. It can't be true. It can't be true.
>
> And that's the advantage. Because the claim is so outrageous, it provides
> an ideal test.
SERVO: That's right, now *you too* can test your perception of reality with
a totally outrageous scheme that has no bearing or impact on anything
what-so-ever.
CROW: Wherein lies the beauty.
SERVO: The simplicity.
CROW: The down-right felicity.
MIKE & SERVO: Huh?
> Remember that when it comes to a unified theory,
CROW: You have to put all your eggs in one basket.
> the
> exception does not prove the rule but disproves the theory.
CROW: Um, wouldn't that be true of *every* theory?
MIKE: Yes, but he's on a roll.
> If
> fundamentally incorrect, the thesis will be easily refuted.
ALL: NO!??!
>
> It also needs to be understood that the thesis involves a highly concrete
> reconstruction,
SERVO: That's right, we'll be using concrete, no drywall or fiberboard here.
> inviting refutation at every turn,
CROW: If you invite refutation, it will come.
SERVO: And it will stay long past its welcome.
> if erroneous. The
> subject is not an ambiguously defined "lost continent," or a set of
> esoteric principles.
MIKE: I prefer Estee Lauder to Esoteric.
SERVO: [Wisconsin accent] Oh, so do I. It's so much nicer on the skin.
CROW: [also using Wisconsin accent] That's so true. But nothing's better
than buttermilk.
SERVO: Oh! Do tell. Why just the other day...
MIKE: Guys.
CROW: [normal voice] Sorry, Mike.
SERVO: [also normal] Just got carried away.
MIKE: It's okay.
> The theory offers concrete positions of planets,
> celestial bodies illuminated in a highly specific way,
SERVO: It's called general relativity and covers gravity, planetary motion
and many others.
MIKE: And it's all yours at the unbelievable price of just $69.95.
CROW: Or three easy payments of $29.95.
SERVO: Uh, Crow, that adds up to...
CROW: Ssssh! I've got a good thing going here.
> equally specific
> motions of the celestial forms produced by the planetary configuration,
> and clearly stated relationships between the forms.
MIKE: At least *something* in this post will be clearly stated.
> To put the point in
> the bluntest of terms:
ALL: PLEASE!!
> If ancient man never experienced the planetary
> configuration I've proposed,
CROW: Did I miss something? What proposal?
> the experts on ancient religion and myth
> will have no difficulty showing us a recurring celestial form,
SERVO: That form being the hamdinger.
MIKE & CROW: [moan]
> or a
> recurring sacred symbol that does not answer to the configuration in an
> obvious way.
CROW: [as sacred symbol] I refuse to answer in an obvious way.
SERVO: [as prosecutor] But you *must* answer.
CROW: [as sacred symbol] Make me!
>
> With respect to the ancient sun god,
MIKE: Who we all know as Tony.
> for example, I've already noted here
> that, in the ancient astronomies, this god is identified with the planet
> Saturn--an identity I will document at length.
ALL: OH, JOY!!
SERVO: Hey, we gotta get outa here.
MIKE: Okay, let's go.
[ ...6...5...4...3...2...1...<> ]
[ SOL Bridge -- Tom is standing beside a large piece of posterboard that has
a crude depiction of the solar system drawn on it. A picture of Tony
Bennett's face appears where Saturn should be. Mike and Crow stand in rapt
fascination of what Tom is saying. ]
SERVO: So you see, as we've already learned from this post, the Sun and
Tony Bennett are one and the same.
CROW: You know, now that you mention it, I never *have* seen a picture of
the Sun and Tony Bennett standing next to each other.
MIKE: Well, there you have it.
[ Commercial sign light starts to flash ]
SERVO: Now, I'd like to address the notion of the unified theory.
MIKE: [to the camera] This may take a while. We'll be right back.
< Commercials >
[ Mike and Crow are slouched over, their eyes glazed. Tom is still standing
beside the posterboard. ]
SERVO: And *that*, my friends, is why you'll *never* see James Earl Jones on
a re-run of "The Loveboat."
[ Lights flash, sirens sound. Mike and Crow spring back to life ]
ALL: WE'VE GOT POSTING SIGN!!
[ <>...1...2...3...4...5...6... ]
[ Enter the theatre, take seats ]
SERVO: So, where there any questions?
MIKE: Uh, no Tom, but thanks for asking.
> But that's only one level
> in a comprehensive and integrated thesis.
SERVO: Integrated, as a Gordian Knot is integrated.
> I will show, for example, that
SERVO: You *can* grow hair on a bowling ball.
> every ancient culture depicts the supreme power as a motionless sun,
MIKE: Hold still now. Hey! How do you expect me to take your picture if you
keep moving around like that?
> the
> central luminary in the sky. The god ruling over the golden age does not
> soar across the sky, but remains in one place.
CROW: He was always a loner, you know, kept to himself, didn't get out much.
I *never* thought he'd do a thing like *that*.
> Now that's a very
> specific idea, and if no such body as the "motionless sun" ever shone
> above the world,
SERVO: The world would be one dark and scary place.
> one should encounter a mountain of contrary evidence.
MIKE: [captain's voice] And for you lucky people on the left side of the
plane, if you look out right now you can catch a glimpse of the lovely
Mountain of Contrary Evidence.
CROW: Isn't it lovely.
SERVO: I camped there once.
CROW: Did you really?
SERVO: Yes, but it got pretty chilly at night.
CROW: Aah, that's awful. Did it aggravate your arthritis much.
SERVO: No, only the first night, after that...
MIKE: All *right*! I think they get the point.
CROW: [conspiratorially] Do you think we're getting to him?
SERVO: Definitely.
>
> I will demonstrate, additionally, that on every continent,
SERVO: There is land.
> the station of
> this ruling power is the summit of the world axis, the north celestial
> pole.
CROW: Santa Claus is god?!!?
> Visually, for an observer on earth, that means the motionless
> point in the sky around which the heavens appear to revolve as the Earth
> turns on its axis.
CROW: Hey! Is he implying we're too stupid to figure that out for
ourselves?
MIKE: No, I think he just slipped and wrote a coherent sentence.
> A highly improbable location for a planet or a
> "sun"!
SERVO: Yeah, in the sky! Who'd put a sun or planet *there*?
> Yet the tradition is as universal as it is outlandish.
CROW: Is he suddenly talking about circumcision?
MIKE: [cringing] Cut...er, stop that.
> In a
> time-lapse photograph at night you would see the polar sky as a series of
> concentric circles,
SERVO: Each within the other. Each without the next. A rhapsody of
cosmological splendor. A...
CROW: Yeah, right, rings in the sky, we get it.
> representing the circumpolar stars wheeling around a
> central point very close to the star Polaris.
MIKE: Or Bob, as he prefers to be called.
> That motionless center is
> where global tradition places the central sun ruling over the earliest
> age of the gods.
CROW: Who was taking notes during the earliest age of the gods and how did
we get a copy?
MIKE: Meta-Cliff Notes.
CROW: Oh.
>
> How, then, do we respond to this myth of the polar sun?
SERVO: With a subversive mud-slinging campaign that'll have 'em on the floor
and panting before they know what hit 'em.
> Do we simply
> drop the idea because of its seeming implausibility?
MIKE: No, that would be too reasonable.
> Or do we follow
> that idea through, to see where it leads?
SERVO: Let us embrace this madness and make it our own.
>
> The interrelationship of the themes is a key.
CROW: To a door that leads to a room that has a window that opens to the
West and looks out on the setting sun...Coincidence? I think not!
> On the one hand, we have
> the identity of Saturn as the sun god.
MIKE: Lest we forget the original intention of this post.
> On the other hand we have the
> collective memory of the central sun.
SERVO: Support your local sun. Give generously.
> These are two separate but
> intimately connected themes--belonging to an unrecognized global memory.
SERVO: [cop] How about this one?
CROW: [witness] Nope.
SERVO: This?
CROW: Umm...Yeah...No, no, don't recognize that global memory either.
SERVO: Well it has to be *one* of these.
> But there is also a third thread provided by independent astronomical
MIKE: Now we're talking cross-stitch.
> traditions concerning the planet Saturn in ancient times. From ancient
> Iran to China, these astronomical traditions, as if calculated to
> frustrate later historians,
SERVO: Nah, nah! Can't understand *me*!
> proclaim that Saturn originally presided over
> the pole!
CROW: Lech Walesa?
>
> This is what I mean by the persistent tendency of myth and ancient
> astronomy to defy the world we experience.
SERVO: Myth, and astronomy done without telescopes, inaccurate? Who would
have *guessed*!
> If the results amounted to
> wholesale confusion, one could accept the tendency as hopelessly
> irrational,
MIKE: Much like the way we feel reading this post.
> and simply walk away from the whole matter.
CROW: That's right, just walk away.
SERVO: Billy, don't be a hero.
> But in truth the
> results are astonishingly coherent,
MIKE: To *me*, anyway.
> a fact that will never be explained
> through the prior suppositions of historians or astronomers.
SERVO: So true.
SERVO: Oops, time to go.
[ ...6...5...4...3...2...1...<> ]
CROW: Hey, Mike?
MIKE: Yes, Crow?
CROW: Well, we're over half way through this post, right?
MIKE: [does some mental calculations] Yeah, I think so.
CROW: Well, I was just wondering.
MIKE: Yes?
CROW: Well...WHEN'S HE GOING TO GET TO THE POINT?!!?
SERVO: Crow's right, Mike. This guy's been talking, and talking and talking,
but hasn't really *said* anything!
MIKE: That's the point.
SERVO & CROW: Huh?
MIKE: You see, the poster is actually a master hypnotist and this post is
actually a big subliminal message to go out and buy...
SERVO & CROW: HAMDINGERS!!
MIKE: That's right!
SERVO: Wow, so *that's* why I have a craving for that fickle snack.
CROW: Yeah, me too.
SERVO: This guy must be *good*.
CROW: Yeah, to think he almost got away with it too. But...Hey, wait a
minute.
MIKE: Yes, Crow?
CROW: How is it that *you* figured it out?
MIKE: What do you mean?
SERVO: Hmm, Crow's right, Mike, you're not exactly a, well, rocket scientist,
after all.
[ Commercial sign light begins to flash ]
MIKE: I can explain everything. [to the camera] We'll be right back.
< Commercials >
MIKE: So you see, in a post about a post, that referred to a post, I found
out about this technique.
SERVO & CROW: Ohh.
[ Lights flash, thunder roars ]
ALL: POSTING SIGN!!!
[ <>...1...2...3...4...5...6... ]
>
> Now keep in mind as well that the earliest myths, as revealed in the
> sacred literature of Egypt and Mesopotamia, are wholly preoccupied with
> celestial events.
CROW: Yeah, no relationship, no caring. Just events, *celestial* events.
> Only later, after many generations of transmission,
ALL: Eewwgh!
> do
> the myths get localized,
SERVO: So, by spreading the myths, retelling them and, let's face it
*changing* them, we find them all conveniently located at the
neighborhood WalMart?
> so that many of the episodes seem to be
> occurring on a terrestrial landscape. This evolutionary principle will
> become extremely important in penetrating to the core of myth and
CROW: Alright! Finally something *interesting*!
> preventing us from becoming distracted by the self-evident contradictions
> of localized accounts.
>
> I'm suggesting
MIKE: That you ignore everything that I've said so far.
> that an entirely different methodology is necessary, one
> that approaches the subject with no preconceptions,
SERVO: Only through the ignorant may we gain knowledge.
> and asks: what are
> the underlying forms inherent in the mythical expressions?
CROW: Well, there's a kitty-cat. And a doggy. And, oh, look there, a
little pig.
> What are the
> underlying events or sequences that will account for the recurring dramas
> of myth?
SERVO: Uh, maybe no one could think of anything original, so they all ended
up copying off of each other's papers.
>
>
> BUT IS IT NECESSARILY TRUE THAT MYTHS HAVE AN EXTERNAL REFERENCE AT
> ALL--THAT THEY ARE A MIRROR ON NATURAL EVENTS?
MIKE: On the next Geraldo.
>
> It's only to be expected that this question would arise relentlessly.
CROW: Down, you traitorous question. Down! I say.
> Yet virtually all studies of myth, since the beginning of the discipline,
SERVO: Going on three days now.
> assume that there are objective references to the signs and symbols and
> to the central story elements of myth.
MIKE: And we *all* know what happens when you assume.
> No one has claimed that the myths
> evolved in complete and total isolation from natural experience.
CROW: Hey! I did *to* claim that!
> For
> example, even those taking a psychoanalytical approach,
SERVO: Twisted though they may be.
> while emphasizing
> hidden thought structures, would never deny that the ancient "sun"
> symbols carved or painted on stone around the world had their external
> reference in an actual celestial object.
MIKE: It's a sun.
CROW: No it's not.
MIKE: Yes it is.
CROW: No it's not.
MIKE: *Yes*, it is.
CROW: *No*, it's *not*!
> Nor would they deny that the
> countless crescents drawn by primitive artists answered to a body in the
> sky.
SERVO: And just who *do* you think you answer to, mister? A body in the
sky? Ha! We'll just see if *that* stands up in court.
>
> Despite all the competing interpretations by the different schools,
ALL: [singing] School's out for the summer!
> they
> have held one thing in common: they have assumed an unchanging sky,
MIKE: We've covered the "assume" thing already, haven't we?
> and
> wherever possible, within the frameworks of the respective theories,
SERVO: I just hate this theory, it's framework is *so* restrictive.
CROW: That's why I wear an eighteen hour theory.
> they
> have referred the celestial objects of ancient art and myth to bodies or
> events in our sky, behaving exactly as they do today.
MIKE: Which we all know to be completely insane. Like we're supposed to
believe that the planets have been revolving around the sun since
ancient times! For sure.
> The sun, the moon,
> comets, the pole star, the Great Bear,
CROW: Twiggy.
SERVO: The Great Muppet Caper.
> other constellations, lightning,
> wind, tornadoes.. Or conversely, they have sought to account for the
> celestial objects by reference to purely localized forms such as
> mountains, rivers, trees, or various animals or human artifacts first
> venerated in a primitive, animistic religion, then later projected on the
> sky.
CROW: They must've had *big* flashlights back then to project all that
stuff on the sky.
MIKE: "When the Gods Make Shadow Puppets."
>
> And this is where the problem comes in.
SERVO: Uh, no, the problem started about 640 lines ago.
> None of the assumed references
> of the myths will withstand serious investigation. Not one!
CROW: And this surprises...*who*?
SERVO: THAT'S WHY THEY'RE CALLED *MYTHS*!!!
MIKE: Calm down Tom, it's only a post.
SERVO: Make it go way, Mike. Please, make it go away.
MIKE: I wish I could, buddy. I wish I could.
>
>
> YOU HAVE MENTIONED A "CRESCENT" MORE THAN ONCE.
CROW: Yeah, just what did you mean by that? Have you got something against
crescents? Are you *prejudiced* against them?
> ARE YOU SAYING THAT NOT
> JUST THE SUN-SYMBOLS BUT THE CRESCENT "MOONS" OF ANCIENT ART AND RITUAL
> MEANT SOMETHING OTHER THAN THE MOON WE SEE IN THE SKY?
MIKE: Why, yes I am, and here's Tom to tell you all about it.
SERVO: Thanks, Mike, and, hey, don't go changin'
MIKE: Ha, ha, ha.
>
> I find it interesting that,
CROW: I *still* have no idea what I'm talking about.
> since the beginning of modern investigation
> into myth,
CROW: Going on *four* days, now.
MIKE: Oh, it hasn't been *that* long.
> no one has questioned the reference: the abundant crescent
> forms could only refer to the moon, we've always assumed.
SERVO: But let the truth be known! Those crescents are actually croissants!
> In fact the
> assumption is automatic. Why should anyone pause long enough to wonder if
> ancient records support the identification?
CROW: Ding! Time's up.
>
> But as it turns out, the crescent in the earliest representations has
> nothing to do with our moon!
SERVO: It has to do with *my* moon. You go get your *own* moon.
> In countless instances the crescent has an
MIKE: Unusually yellow complexion.
> orb or star inside of it--that's the most common context of the symbol in
> Mesopotamia, the birthplace of observational astronomy!
CROW: What a breakthrough *that* must have been! Just think, before this
astronomers were actually *banned* from looking at the sky.
MIKE: Yeah, it was considered cheating.
> While the
> Mesopotamian image is astronomically impossible in our sky,
SERVO: It's also astronomically expensive.
> occurrence of
> the image is global. Now simply calling this a bizarre coincidence is
CROW: Easy! Try it yourself and see!
> not only profoundly illogical, but has the effect of cutting off the
MIKE: Pathway to the brain. A wholly unpleasant affair.
> inquiry before it reaches the most telling levels.
SERVO: [announcer's voice] "The Telling Levels," the long awaited sequel
to "The Crying Game." In theatres now.
> Let me tell you what happened in my
CROW: Hotel room this weekend. Boy! were we *buzzed*!!
> own case. Having decided to
> investigate the image--rather than
SERVO: Finishing my psych homework, which was bogus anyway.
> ending the inquiry because of the
> image's astronomical "impossibility"--I began to collate both the
> abstract pictographs and the mythical forms of the crescent.
CROW: Wouldn't it have been better to use clear, well-taken photographs
instead of abstracts?
SERVO: Piccasso sculpted crescents?
MIKE: Yeah, we call them squares.
> By
> "mythical forms" of the crescent I mean
MIKE: Squares, like I said.
> the different ways in which the
> mythmakers viewed or interpreted the celestial object--as the horns of a
> bull, or a ship moving in the sky, or as a number of other things as well.
SERVO: Whoa! We're really stretching here, aren't we?
>
> By doing nothing more than noting the actual contexts of the symbolism,
CROW: Since I had already received funding for the entire quarter, I didn't
want to blow it all in one evening.
> I
> found myself confronting an idea so different from our moon as to
> eliminate even the possibility of a relationship with that body.
MIKE: Jello. It all comes down to jello.
> To the
> ancient chroniclers themselves, the crescent
SERVO: Was just their way of doodling while trying to think of something
to write.
> turned around a central
> point with the cycle of "day and night." The original symbolic crescent
CROW: Was lost somewhere over the south Atlantic.
> does not go through phases, does not move across the sky in the fashion
> of our moon at all. It simply moves in a circle around a stationary orb
> or star in its hollow.
CROW: And bitter life. Don't forget bitter.
> Moreover, the alternating positions of that
MIKE: Crescent makes it darned hard to sleep next to.
SERVO: Uh, oh, weird area alert.
CROW: I'm not even going to speculate.
> crescent in relation to the enclosed orb or star--above and below, or
> right and left
SERVO: Put your left foot in and you shake it all about...
> --signify distinct phases in the daily cycle.
CROW: And women complain about a *monthly* cycle, just think what this poor
crescent has to endure.
> In other
> words,
MIKE: The words are different, but the meaning is just as obscure.
> the entire idea is alien to anything observed in the sky
> today--and yet the idea is presented with a consistency that is
> inconceivable without an actual celestial reference.
SERVO: Yes, *no one* would do that *on purpose*!
> Readers will find
CROW: It difficult to stay awake. I suggest intermittent pinching.
> numerous examples in The Saturn Myth, and I will summarize various
> instances just as soon as we've established the context.
ALL: WE *STILL* HAVEN'T ESTABLISHED THE CONTEXT!??! AAARRGGHHH!!
< Commercials >
>
>
> BUT YOU ALSO SAID THAT, AT THE LEVEL OF THE SUBSTRUCTURE, ALL OF THE
> THEMES ARE INTERRELATED, OR PART OF A UNIFIED WHOLE. PEOPLE MAY FIND IT
> HARD TO BELIEVE THAT THE CRESCENT YOU REFER TO IS ATTACHED TO THE ANCIENT
> "SUN".
CROW: Well, without a movie-of-the-week, anyway.
>
> The surprising fact is that
MIKE: This post keeps going, and going and going.
> the two are inseparable. The star or orb in
> a crescent is a picture of the ancient sun god.
SERVO: But, hey, don't take *my* word for it, just ask Mikey.
MIKE: Me?
SERVO: Uh, sorry, I forgot.
> Of course none of this
> will make any sense
CROW: EVER! Hahahahaha! You lose!
> until you realize that the "sun god" was a planet
> growing brilliant with the setting of the solar orb. We're talking about
SERVO: Utter nonsense.
> a unique--an extraordinary--planetary phenomenon, and more than one
> planetary body was involved.
CROW: Awright! A threesome!
MIKE: Crow!
> It may be extremely difficult for people to
> accept this statement in advance of a satisfactory demonstration, but
SERVO: Accept it, 'cause that's all you're gonna get!
> the
> reconstruction I've offered is derived from a straightforward, highly
> literal reading of ancient sources,
MIKE: Being fluent in Mesopotamian and other Ancient Languages, I can make
this claim; you'll just have to take my word for it.
> with either little or no
> interpretation added.
CROW: Don't waste your time with your *own* interpretation, use *mine*
instead.
SERVO: It tastes great and it's less filling.
> The methodology simply permits the texts and
> pictures to mean what they say--not in the sense that one accepts the
> mythical interpretations literally, but that one allows for the
> underlying experiences, including both the explicit forms and the
> event-sequences necessary to produce the remembered experiences.
MIKE: Did anyone get that?
SERVO: Uh, maybe. Something about produce, right?
CROW: Yeah, corn and beans, I think.
MIKE: Okay. I thought I was totally off base for a minute there.
>
> The fact of the matter is
CROW: I'm just talking to hear the sound of my voice.
> that, around the world, the ancient sun god
MIKE: Is constantly being mistaken for a California Raisin.
> stands in an intimate association with a great crescent,
CROW: They're so intimate that it's almost *filthy*!
MIKE: Crow! It's not nice to judge.
> frequently
> depicted as crescent horns, or as a great crescent-ship revolving in the
> sky. This is true in both Egypt and Mesopotamia, for example.
SERVO: Take my word for it. I know about these things. I've studied and
everything.
> In both
> lands, the sun god is depicted either wearing a crescent or
> crescent-horns, or standing in a revolving crescent-ship.
CROW: Often leaning against the rail and heaving his guts out over the side.
> And that
> crescent behaves in a very specific way, as I've said.
SERVO: Yeah, it revolves. I think we get that part.
>
>
> SINCE YOU HAVE IDENTIFIED THE SUN GOD AS SATURN, ARE YOU SUGGESTING THAT
> THE SPHERE OF SATURN ITSELF DISPLAYED A CRESCENT?
CROW: Only in part. What I'm actually here to do is promote my book.
>
> Yes, I believe I can demonstrate beyond any reasonable doubt that an
MIKE: Idiot of my calibre can get financial backing from almost *any*
university.
> ancient crescent was part and parcel of the planet Saturn, when Saturn
> shone as a massive body in the northern sky,
SERVO: I wish he'd go on a diet. He'd look *so* much better.
> extremely close to the
> Earth. (It will eventually become clear, however, that Saturn was not
> the only participating body to display a bright crescent.)
CROW: Say, is that a bright crescent in your pocket or are you just happy to
see me?
>
> In exploring the roots of the image,
MIKE: I'd just as soon *not* explore that image, thank you.
> I came to realize that the movement
> of the crescent would offer a crucial test of
SERVO: My sanity. Unfortunately I only scored a 23.
> any model seeking to
> account for the symbolism as a whole. One image I looked at very
> carefully was
CROW: In this year's Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Issue.
> the Egyptian ship of the sun god Ra,
SERVO: [as Robin Leach] It's a fabulous, sixty-foot yacht with gold trim and
ivory decks. Truly the possession of a god.
> since the ship is
> known to have originally possessed a crescent-like form.
MIKE: Not at all ideal for sailing.
> I was
> particularly fascinated with the many references in the early texts to
> the movement of the ship in relation to an archaic cycle of day and
> night, a cycle blatantly defying any and all celestial motions observed
> today.
CROW: Yeah, back then it went night-day-day-night-day-night-night-day. It
was blatantly archaic. That's why we changed it.
SERVO: Plus it was messing with our TV schedules.
>
> Here are the movements of the ship of Ra I found stated repeatedly in the
> Egyptian Pyramid Texts, Coffin Texts and Book of the Dead.
MIKE: Step-together-step. To the right, and, step-together-step.
> The revolving
> ship descends to the left, or sails "downstream" in its daily phase of
> "growing bright" And it stands below in the phase of "brilliance," or
> "life," or "shining forth."
CROW: Or "glowing happily," or...Aw, the heck with it, I don't really know
*what* it's supposed means.
> Conversely, it ascends to the right, or
> sails "upstream" in the phase of declining light, and it stands in an
> inverted position above in the phase of "inactivity" or "non-existence,"
> or diminished light.
SERVO: Should we be taking notes?
MIKE: I don't think so. When do you suppose *this* information will come in
handy.
CROW: You've got a point there.
>
> Now in order to make my point
ALL: FINALLY!!
> --before we've covered the ground necessary
SERVO: Too late.
CROW: *Much* too late.
> to put all of this in context--I'm skipping over many aspects of the
> cosmic ship.
MIKE: Because you wouldn't understand them anyway.
> At this juncture I want to emphasize one conclusion only:
SERVO: I've made all of this up.
> I never found a reference to the movement of the ship contradicting the
> motions I've stated here.
CROW: Of course I only looked in old Archie comics, but I'm sure that
qualifies as extensive research.
> So my original challenge to Egyptologists
> still stands
MIKE: Las Vegas, ten rounds, your mummy against my mummy.
> --I will retract my claim of a unified theory if anyone can
> substantiate contrary motions of the ship amid the numerous early
> Egyptian references.
SERVO: What's Egyptology got to do with unified theory?
MIKE: Beats me.
CROW: Maybe some of the post is missing.
MIKE & SERVO: NOT THAT!!
>
> But what do these motions mean? Actually, there's one way--and only one
> way--you can produce this kind of a daily cycle.
CROW: And that's by crossing you eyes and squinting.
> You will have to place
> a planet-sized sphere or some other unknown form at the celestial pole,
SERVO: If you happen to have a planet sized sphere, you can try this
experiment yourself at home.
MIKE: Just be sure to get your parents permission first.
> illuminated by the sun (the solar orb, of course)
ALL: Duh!
> to produce a crescent
> on the polar body. Grant this outrageous condition, and here's what will
> happen:
SERVO: Thousands of Julien fries!
> as the earth turns on its axis, the crescent on the stationary
> sphere will revolve through phases in answer to the visual movement of
> the solar orb.
CROW: [as operator] I'm sorry sir, your party doesn't answer.
> This will mean that as the solar orb sets and the sky
> darkens, the crescent, visually descending to the left, will begin to
> grow bight.
SERVO: Holding in it's weakening arms the hopes and dreams of an entire
civilization.
> It will then shine most brightly while it is in the
> recumbent position below. Then its brightness will begin to recede as it
> moves upward to the right, as the surrounding sky lightens with
> approaching sunrise. And finally, as the solar orb moves overhead, the
> now dulled or faintly shining crescent will move above into an inverted
> position.
SERVO: Crushing to dust those self-same hopes and dreams.
>
> In other words,
CROW: Dog fly west, eats land over seventy. Final direction water capsize.
SERVO: Which makes a *heck* of a lot more sense than this post.
MIKE: Here, here.
> place a crescent on the polar Saturn and you will get the
> precise motions of the Egyptian cosmic ship--motions which have refused
> every attempt at an explanation by Egyptologists.
SERVO: I motion to refuse the Egyptologits attempts at explanation.
MIKE: I second.
SERVO: Any opposed.
CROW: No.
SERVO: Motion carries.
> --------------------------------------------
>
> Some of the ideas discussed above,
MIKE: Have actual bearing on life as we know it.
SERVO: But it's *you're* job to find out which ones those are.
> along with independent research
> results of others, will be the subject of an international symposium,
> "Velikovsky, Ancient Myth and Modern Science," to be held in Portland,
> Oregon, November 25-27.
CROW: If you value your sanity, you will avoid this symposium at all costs.
>
> For information contact e...@pi.eai.com
>
>
> COPYRIGHT 1994, DAVID TALBOTT
>
>
>
CROW: Is it really over?
MIKE: I think so.
SERVO: Then let's get the heck outta here!
[ ...6...5...4...3...2...1...<> ]
MIKE: Okay guys, how 'bout a nice juicy RAM chip for every coherent thought
you can pull out of this week's post.
SERVO: Uh.
CROW: RAM chip?
MIKE: Yeah, come on, there must have been at *least* one.
CROW: Sure, there was that thing about the, you know, the whatever-it-was-
called. And the, um, doo-hickey.
SERVO: That's right, the doo-hickey, and the sun, oh! and Saturn, there was
Saturn, too. Wasn't there?
MIKE: [hesitantly] Yeah, but that's not enough. Come on, you've got to
work for these RAM chips.
SERVO & CROW: WORK!??!
SERVO: Like that wasn't work? What we did in there?
CROW: As if that didn't cause suffering?
SERVO: We *earned* those RAM chips.
MIKE: Aaw, okay, here you go [feeds the 'bots a couple RAM chips]. So, what
did you think, sirs?
[ Deep 13 -- Frank is hopping around the back of the frame wearing a pink
bunny costume ]
DR. F: That was fine boys. [looks back at Frank] So, Frank, have you
learned your lesson yet.
[ Frank stops hopping ]
FRANK: I sure have. Next time it's energizer batteries all the way.
DR. F: Good work Frank, now push the button.
[ Frank hops over to the console and pushes the button. Nothing happens ]
DR. F: [with increasing annoyance] Frank!
FRANK: Heh, heh, must be the batteries.
DR. F: Why you...
[ Dr. F conks Frank on the back of the head, which forces him to double over
in pain. Dr. F then pushes Franks head into the console. His nose pushes
the button ]
\ | /
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-- * --
/|\
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Mystery Science Theater 3000 and its related characters and situations are
trademarks of and (c) 1994 by Best Brains, Inc. All rights reserved.
Use of copyrighted and trademarked material is for entertainment
purposes only; no infringement on the original copyrights or trademarks
held by Best Brains, Inc. is intended or should be inferred.
> The methodology simply permits the texts and
> pictures to mean what they say--not in the sense that one accepts the
> mythical interpretations literally, but that one allows for the
> underlying experiences, including both the explicit forms and the
> event-sequences necessary to produce the remembered experiences.