Damon Speaks
tdciago
LATEST FROM KRISTIN
WHAT'S TO COME
Lost boss Damon Lindelof attended the excellent Juan-Manuel Rocha-
hosted Comics on Comics event at Meltdown on Sunset tonight. He
offered the assembled crowd several very interesting insights about
the future of Lost.
VOTE NO ON MIDI-CHLORIANS: Damon gave us a sense of what kind of Lost
questions will be answered, and which other mysteries won't explicitly
be explained by the end of the series: "There are certain questions
about the show that I'm very befuddled by like, 'What is the Island?'
or 'What do the numbers mean?' We're going to be explaining a little
more about the numbers, maybe significantly more about the numbers,
but what do you mean by 'What do the numbers mean?' What is a
potential answer to that question? I feel like you have to be very
careful about entering into midi-chlorian territory...I grew up on
Star Wars, I've seen the Star Wars movies hundreds of times, I can
recite them chapter and verse, and never once did anyone ever say to
me or did it occur to me to say, 'What is the Force, exactly? Can you
explain that for me, better than Alec Guinness does?' I understand,
'When are we going to find out about Libby?' That's a very finite
question. 'Who is Jacob?' OK, yes, we've been talking to this guy
named Jacob, so those questions then should have answers, but 'What is
the Island?' That starts to get into 'What is the Force?' It is a
place. I can't explain to you why it moves through space-time, it just
does. You have to accept the fact that it does." Can you live with
that?
SURVEY SAYS, ZZZT! WRONG ANSWER: Regarding the approaching final
season and possible fan reaction to the accompanying reveals, Damon
says, "There isn't a perfect way to end the show, but the end
inevitably approaches and so the show has to start answering more and
more questions. To me the greatest thing about Lost, just in terms of
writing it, was that [over the years] the show could ask a question,
and everyone [watching] could say 'Here's what I think the answer to
that is.' And next year we're basically going to spend the entire
season telling you you're wrong. 'Here's the actual answer to that
question.' And you're going to say, 'S--t, my answer was actually much
better.' " Have you been satisfied or displeased with the answers
we've gotten so far?
HOW IT ENDS: Just as an insight into Damon's mind (and thus a pointer
to possible plans for the Lost series ender), you might be interested
to know that the M*A*S*H finale is Damon's all-time favorite series
conclusion.
MORE SERIES FINALE CLUES: Damon says that when the show ends, "All of
the character resolutions will be very defined. There is going to be
no cut to black. The show for me and Carlton [Cuse] and J.J. [Abrams]
and all the people writing it—it's not about the Island. The Island is
where it takes place. It's about this group of people who crashed on
the Island on Sept. 22, 2004, and how they influenced the history of
the Island in some ways and had a very significant and pivotal role to
play there. You're going to see that role play out, and their fates
will all be resolved by the end of the series—that's the story that
we're telling. In terms of every little bit of minutiae about the
Island itself...there will be questions [left unanswered] after the
show [ends]."
LIBBY SAYS HI: Libby's story will not be wrapped up on the show. Says
Damon, "I have learned that if you kill someone off the show, they are
less likely to cooperate with you." Basically, Cynthia Watros is busy
until further notice and they can't explain Libby without her, at
least not in any way that shows her story rather than annoyingly tells
her story. What's the takeaway for us fans? Next time you've got Damon
cornered, don't waste your breath asking about Libby. Instead, bust
his chops about another very important blonde: Claire! Where is that
little minx, anyway?
THE SUM IS 108: This one goes out to all the Lostpedians out there.
Damon said, "Here's the story with numbers. The Hanso Foundation that
started the Dharma Initiative hired this guy Valenzetti to basically
work on this equation to determine what was the probability of the
world ending in the wake of the Cuban Missile Crisis. Valenzetti
basically deduced that it was 100 percent within the next 27 years, so
the Hanso Foundation started the Dharma Initiative in an effort to try
to change the variables in the equation so that mankind wouldn't wipe
it itself out." This information, in more convoluted form, was leaked
out via the online games rather than explained on the show itself,
says Damon, because, "That would be the worst thing ever. We have to
make the show for the hardcore fans who care about the numbers, but we
also have to make it for my mom, who just wants Sawyer to take his
shirt off."
SO THERE: While discussing Wolverine and the role of canon in comic
adaptations, Damon said, "At the end of the day, you can do anything
you want [as a storyteller] so long as it's cool." Certainly applies
to Lost too, don't you think?
Source: E!Online
thinbluemime
> THE SUM IS 108: This one goes out to all the Lostpedians out there.
> Damon said, "Here's the story with numbers. The Hanso Foundation that
> started the Dharma Initiative hired this guy Valenzetti to basically
> work on this equation to determine what was the probability of the
> world ending in the wake of the Cuban Missile Crisis. Valenzetti
> basically deduced that it was 100 percent within the next 27 years, so
> the Hanso Foundation started the Dharma Initiative in an effort to try
> to change the variables in the equation so that mankind wouldn't wipe
> it itself out." This information, in more convoluted form, was leaked
Where or who came up with the 27 year figure, any idea? I played the 1st
ARG and never heard any specific number of years mentioned. In fact, it
was left very vague.
thinbluemime
wrote:
Jennifer Godwin (in Krispin's column) appears to be quoting Lindelof if
she is following the normal conventions of writing. She has enclosed the
'27 years' statement in quotation marks as if quoting Damon. Here is the
direct link:
http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/watch_with_kristin/b122630_lost_redux_who_causes_incident.html
Cuban Missile Crisis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Missile_Crisis
wake of crisis = 1963 onward (1963 + 27)... so sometime 1990 to present,
Valenzetti Equation determines the end
I still would like to know for certain where the 27 year figure came from.
Lawrence Leichtman
thinbluemime <thinbl...@tbm.com> wrote:
Agreed, the seem to retcon everything. And making the game part of the
canon of the show is a bit hinky to me.
tdciago
> wake of crisis = �1963 onward (1963 + 27)... so sometime 1990 to present, �
> Valenzetti Equation determines the end
>
> I still would like to know for certain where the 27 year figure came from.
I couldn't figure that out either, but here's the quote again:
Damon said, "Here's the story with numbers. The Hanso Foundation that
started the Dharma Initiative hired this guy Valenzetti to basically
work on this equation to determine what was the probability of the
world ending in the wake of the Cuban Missile Crisis. Valenzetti
basically deduced that it was 100 percent within the next 27 years, so
the Hanso Foundation started the Dharma Initiative in an effort to try
to change the variables in the equation so that mankind wouldn't wipe
it itself out."
According to Lostpedia, "Enzo Valenzetti is the reclusive Princeton
University mathematician who was commissioned by the UN in 1962 to
investigate the threat of mankind extinguishing itself."
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Enzo_Valenzetti
I think Damon must mean within 27 years of 1962, which would mean the
results showed mankind extinguishing itself by 1989. Alvar Hanso
filmed a video in 1975 explaining the details behind the Valenzetti
Equation, so the results were already known by then, and DHARMA was
specifically working on changing the core factors:
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Sri_lanka_video
The only other interpretation I can come up with in reading Damon's
quote is 27 years from NOW, but that doesn't really sound right. If
the original deadline was 1989, then maybe the wreck of the Besixdouze
in November of 1988 had something to do with holding off the end.
Another confusing thing is that there's 27 years between 1977 and
2004, the date of the 815 crash. This whole thing is a mess.
tdciago
> If
> the original deadline was 1989, then maybe the wreck of the Besixdouze
> in November of 1988 had something to do with holding off the end.
Hang on to your space helmets. Here comes a theory.
I think the Besixdouze, which was named for Asteroid B612, really
*was* an asteroid. It began its journey through space on November 15,
1988, the exact same day that the Green Bank radio telescope
collapsed, which means that *no one on Earth could see it*.
It veered off course specifically because of the DHARMA radio
transmissions from the island, encountered a huge electrical storm,
and crashed on the island.
If not for those DHARMA transmissions, the asteroid would have struck
Earth, killing everyone on the planet and fulfilling Valenzetti's
calculation that the end would come within 27 years of the Cuban
Missile Crisis.
In effect, the island caught a falling star.
mrpemstar
I have posted this before. This is a interview with LOSTPEDIA and the
origin of the numbers:
Lostpedia: Speaking of the Numbers, who came up with them?
What is their origin, and why those numbers rather than others?
Whose decision was it to drop in references to these numbers in
subsequent episodes as easter eggs for the fans?
J.J., Damon and I met at some restaurant on our day off to break that
episode.
Hurley winning the lottery was Damon’s idea. But I believe the
“Numbers” and their importance was J.J.’s. When I started writing the
episode, I already figured to use numbers that had been heard on the
show… 4 (number of years Locke was in wheelchair); 8, 15 (Flight 815),
etc. When I confirmed my number choices with Damon, I was still
missing the last number. I had thought to make it “42” (an homage to
Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy – Answer to the Ultimate Question).
When Damon had the same idea, that clinched it. It was my idea to have
the numbers engraved on the hatch at the end of the episode. After
that, I can only assume Damon is the easter egg dropper.
Rick
"tdciago" <tdc...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:956b3e7a-97e1-4c49...@t11g2000vbc.googlegroups.com...
I thought Valenzetti's equation predicted when manknd would destroy itself -
not when mankind would be destroyed by a random space event.
tdciago
> I thought Valenzetti's equation predicted when manknd would destroy itself -
> not when mankind would be destroyed by a random space event.
Here's the pertinent portion of Hanso's statement:
"It predicts the exact number of years and months until humanity
extinguishes itself. Whether through nuclear fire, chemical and
biological warfare, conventional warfare, pandemic, over-population...
The results are chilling, and attention must be paid...
Valenzetti gave numerical values to the core environmental and human
factors in his equation: 4, 8, 15, 16, 23 and 42. Only by manipulating
the environment, by finding scientific solutions to our problems we
will be able to change those core factors, and give humanity a chance
to survive."
At least some of the core factors are environmental. He talks about
manipulating the environment, so it's possible that some action taken
by humanity could have set events in motion regarding an asteroid on a
collision course with the planet. The fact that the Besixdouze was
supposedly doing scientific research may be an indication that we
messed with something we shouldn't have.
Then again, there's the possibilty that the asteroid is some kind of
divine retribution for our bad behavior. (Back to Science vs. Faith.)
In any case, I can't ignore the fact that the ship is named for an
asteroid, especially given the "Falling Star" clues and the meteorite
that hit Mr. Cluck's.
This whole "27 years" thing being suddenly dropped in our laps by
Damon seems like an intentional nudge to fuel our speculation going
into the final season. If it was an unintentional leak, it seems like
a gigantic gaffe.
Lawrence Leichtman
<0a99707c-829f-4c65...@s31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>,
tdciago <tdc...@aol.com> wrote:
But as you point out so well, it is man destroying himself not some
outside force like an asteroid. I'm not buying the space theory at all.
It makes little sense for the story line other than very convoluted
theories. Why would something in space be necessary for man's continued
existence? While people could get there randomly, how would the Dharma
initiative ever had found it or gotten there. The island may exist as a
time and space bubble on earth given the strange science that Lost
writers are selling but something in space just makes this a Stargate
look alike and a very lame story.
tdciago
> Why would something in space be necessary for man's continued
> existence?
You don't think the sun (for instance) is necessary for our
existence? Whatever the island is, it may be keeping things in
balance, perhaps preventing some catastrophic event like a nearby
supernova explosion, or it may be pulling in asteroids that would
otherwise strike the planet. Without the supermassive black hole at
the center of our galaxy, what would happen? It's there for a reason.
>While people could get there randomly, how would the Dharma
> initiative ever had found it or gotten there.
I think you missed the main point of my theory, outlined in other
threads, which is that they're *not* people. They're stars. They're
being personified to tell the story.
For that matter, all this talk of *humanity* extinguishing itself may
simply be more of the same storytelling device, using cataclysmic
astronomical events to symbolize what humanity is doing to itself on
Earth.
Darren Delgado
Sorry, I'm going to ask for clarification again. Bear with me.
I'm confused as to which of these you are really theorizing:
1. Danielle's ship was really an asteroid, but as the viewing
audience, we are _being shown_ that it was a ship for artistic
purposes.
or
2. Danielle's ship was really an asteroid, which somehow took the
form of a ship.
Is it either of these? Or something else?
If it's (1), then I don't understand how a DHARMA transmission would
throw an asteroid off course. I DO see how it could alter the course
of a ship, because the people heard it and decided to change course to
investigate it.
David / Amicus
So that's why I don't understand LOST; I'm a Star Trek fan not a Star
Wars one.
tdciago
> I'm confused as to which of these you are really theorizing:
>
> 1. �Danielle's ship was really an asteroid, but as the viewing
> audience, we are _being shown_ that it was a ship for artistic
> purposes.
> or
> 2. �Danielle's ship was really an asteroid, which somehow took the
> form of a ship.
>
> Is it either of these? �Or something else?
It's the first one.
> If it's (1), then I don't understand how a DHARMA transmission would
> throw an asteroid off course. �I DO see how it could alter the course
> of a ship, because the people heard it and decided to change course to
> investigate it.
I think the DHARMA radio transmission is a naturally occurring
phenomenon that's being artistically portrayed as the numbers
broadcast. In other words, some astronomical object is producing
electromagnetic radiation, which is being explained within our story
as the Valenzetti numbers being broadcast by DHARMA from a radio
tower. There is then some kind of interaction between this
astronomical object and the asteroid, which results in the asteroid
being "pulled" toward the other object. If we were to describe this
interaction in human terms, calling the asteroid a ship, we might say
that the crew of the ship decided to veer off course to investigate
the radio transmission.
What may actually be happening is that a radio source is the location
of a black hole, or something that would draw the asteroid off
course. Let me give you an example, which also happens to be in the
same area as the source of the Wow! Signal:
"Sagittarius A* (pronounced 'A-star', standard abbreviation Sgr A*) is
a bright and very compact astronomical radio source at the center of
the Milky Way Galaxy, part of a larger astronomical feature at that
location (Sagittarius A). Sagittarius A* is likely to be the location
of a supermassive black hole, as is hypothesized to be at the centers
of many spiral and elliptical galaxies."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sagittarius_A*
Does that help? I don't have the knowledge to adequately explain the
scientific details, but I think the entire "Lost" story is treating
astronomical occurrences in this sort of artistic manner. They're
telling a human story to illustrate what's happening in the sky, just
as ancient peoples did.
Darren Delgado
That was my next question (i.e., if the ship is really an asteroid, is
the DHARMA broadcast something else too).
> What may actually be happening is that a radio source is the location
> of a black hole, or something that would draw the asteroid off
> course. Let me give you an example, which also happens to be in the
> same area as the source of the Wow! Signal:
>
> "Sagittarius A* (pronounced 'A-star', standard abbreviation Sgr A*) is
> a bright and very compact astronomical radio source at the center of
> the Milky Way Galaxy, part of a larger astronomical feature at that
> location (Sagittarius A). Sagittarius A* is likely to be the location
> of a supermassive black hole, as is hypothesized to be at the centers
> of many spiral and elliptical galaxies."http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sagittarius_A*
>
> Does that help? I don't have the knowledge to adequately explain the
> scientific details, but I think the entire "Lost" story is treating
> astronomical occurrences in this sort of artistic manner. They're
> telling a human story to illustrate what's happening in the sky, just
> as ancient peoples did.
OK, and as always I am with you up until that point. I like it a
lot. It also explains why the characters kept bumping into each other
in the pre-Island flashbacks, a lot better than saying that it's just
random coincidence.
Where I have to veer off, though, is the part where at the end of the
series you think they will remove the facade and show that all these
story elements are astronomical bodies and events. I just can't see
them doing that; not only would it piss off about 75% of the audience,
but more importantly, I can't even conceive of a way to do it onscreen
-- I can't even think of a lousy unsatisfying way to do it, like I can
with Rob's theory.
How can I, as a writer, show the audience that Kate is a star, and
Widmore's freighter is a supernova, and Danielle's ship is an
asteroid, and the Numbers broadcast is a quasar? Especially given a
limited time frame, AND given the limitations of CGI that we saw in
the horrible submarine shot this week?
I don't think you can do it credibly, and I think that all these
threads are going to be left as symbolism and allusions for the viewer
to figure out retroactively. And the show will have a quite literal
ending which also has tons of layers of symbolism underneath it.
Dan
well, I've been thinking about it, and maybe instead of trying to
actually show the relations of the characters to actual celestial
events, it could end with some people outside looking up at the sky,
with one person pointing to a star or constellation, saying something
like "And Jack was a dick who kept messing things up". Doing something
like that could be used to make the transition from the Lost story
into a type of mythology the ancient Greeks and Romans made up to
explain the things they saw in the sky.
tdciago
> I don't think you can do it credibly, and I think that all these
> threads are going to be left as symbolism and allusions for the viewer
> to figure out retroactively. And the show will have a quite literal
> ending which also has tons of layers of symbolism underneath it.
I agree that the ending I propose — or any other ending — is going to
piss off a large segment of the audience. I don't think there's any
way to please everyone at this point, as fans have their pet theories
and different tolerance levels for various genres. But I think the
producers are at peace with that, and they're going to tell the story
that *they* think is cool, whatever that turns out to be. I'm
grateful for the way things worked out, where they know the end date
and can maintain their artistic integrity without worrying about the
show being cancelled unexpectedly.
What I don't want to happen is for the ending to be *so* ambiguous
that the intended underlying meaning is lost on 99.999% of the
audience. Because, let's face it, if the things I propose are
correct, that's the situation we have right now. There's got to be
enough evidence in the ending to steer viewers in the right
direction. I have complete confidence in the producers' storytelling
ability, so I think whatever they come up with will be really cool and
beyond what any of us could have come up with.
According to Lostpedia, "The scene of the meteorite hitting Mr.
Cluck's was named by Kevin Blank as the 'single biggest, most
expensive shot the show has ever done.'" So, if they're saving their
FX budget for the really important mythological stuff, I can easily
forgive the lousy CGI sub shot.
Then again, they're so creative that they may be able to convey their
intent in some very simple way that we can't even fathom.
tdciago
> well, I've been thinking about it, and maybe instead of trying to
> actually show the relations of the characters to actual celestial
> events, it could end with some people outside looking up at the sky,
> with one person pointing to a star or constellation, saying something
> like "And Jack was a dick who kept messing things up". Doing something
> like that could be used to make the transition from the Lost story
> into a type of mythology the ancient Greeks and Romans made up to
> explain the things they saw in the sky.
I've actually envisioned something similar — minus the "dick"
comment ;) — with Desmond Hume as that hume-an connection to the
story. As an Odysseus figure, he could be the lone figure sailing
away from the island, so to speak.
Lawrence Leichtman
<f66aa642-16fa-4564...@z7g2000vbh.googlegroups.com>,
tdciago <tdc...@aol.com> wrote:
Still not buying your theory. If they totally piss off the majority of
the fans, they will never get another television show and lose fans from
the ones they have. The show is about people and their motivations,
hubris, violence, etc. To make it a show about celestial bodies, stars
or otherwise would be totally pointless. Why would anyone care about
that? Sure the sun is important and the black hole at the center of our
and probably every galaxy is important to that galaxy but how does this
center on the plot of a character centered TV show? Calling the
characters stars doesn't make it so.
Aaron
I agree. I think, if I understand her correctly, tdciago has it backwards.
***oversimplification warning***
I think she is saying the people are actually stars, and what we're
seeing is an extended metaphor where these stars look like persons to us.
I believe the opposite is true. The people are real, yet using an
extended metaphor of stars is intended by the writers.
-Aaron