Foxy Spoilers for Season 4
thinbluemime
DarkUFO has an entry about the interview, along with vid clips. I just
read the full interview, and found the following 2 points, spoilerish.
1)What is Jack referring to when he says to Kate: ''I'm sick of lying. We
made a mistake''?
Jack and the other people, upon getting back to the world, are not being
honest with the world. They are covering up [something]. That's an
agreement that they've all reached. And it's a weird, gross little bond
that they have with each other. They don't see each other much, but when
they see each other, it's incredibly awkward. And this lie — you can cut
it with a knife amongst them.
-My Take-
I posted a little about this in here before. Originally all the survivors
were reported dead. After the 'rescue' how are the '6' explained, as not
being at the bottom of the ocean? The explanation might include the six
survived on some make shift raft, and were thought to be Lost with the
other victims of flight 815.
Jack is allowed to leave with a few others, in exchange for saying nothing
in the real world about the Island. NOTHING. His bargaining chip is he has
been heard on the satellite phone, probably by someone other than the
freighter crew, so his survival of the crash can NOT be contained. Jack
presses hard in the negotiating, and arranges for the escape into the real
world, of several survivors, including Sun and Jin. Jin because he is the
husband of Sun, and Sun because she is pregnant, and will die for sure if
she remains much longer on the island.
I dont know if this will be an issue, but following this rescue scenerio
train of thought, how will Sun's conception on a raft in the open sea with
others survivors, be explained? Me so horney? The conception date, in the
real world, might actually break open the lie that the rescued are forced
to tell.
---------------------
2)This season supposedly deals with time travel and other supernatural
elements. Is that accurate, and, if so, are you happy with this direction?
Yes and yes. Really fascinating stuff. Last year, we find out Jack and
Kate are off the island. How the f--- did that happen? And why does he
want to go back? In answering those questions, you have to start
addressing the bigger, epic scope of the show. In doing that, you're going
to get into questions about the show that the audience is just dying to
start finding out. What is this island? Where is this island? When is this
island?
-My Take-
'When is this island?'. The Island may exist thousands of years ago in a
parallel earth. It might exist in an area of present day earth that is
populated, has busses, and might even be in a city. This could account for
the 'whispers' heard on the island, a sort of a spill over from one time
into the next.
If the island is in a very ancient earth time, it would be fantastic for
this reason:
In a sense, there would NEVER be any real flashbacks.......ONLY
FLASHFORWARDS!!
----------------------
tdciago
> I dont know if this will be an issue, but following this rescue scenerio �
> train of thought, how will Sun's conception on a raft in the open sea with �
> others survivors, be explained?
There would have to have been some landing spot in their made-up
story, because even the ARG insinuates that a good amount of time has
passed before the search is abandoned by Oceanic. Maybe they'll claim
to have survived on an isolated island or land mass in the Indian
Ocean. I'm wondering how they'll explain being so far off course, and
I wonder if the lie will include the claim of a hijacking.
> 2)This season supposedly deals with time travel and other supernatural �
> elements. Is that accurate, and, if so, are you happy with this direction?
>
> Yes and yes.
Well, there you go. The producers can't hide this aspect of the show
anymore.
> -My Take-
> 'When is this island?'.
That was the best line in the interview. :)
thinbluemime
> There would have to have been some landing spot in their made-up
> story, because even the ARG insinuates that a good amount of time has
> passed before the search is abandoned by Oceanic. Maybe they'll claim
> to have survived on an isolated island or land mass in the Indian
> Ocean. I'm wondering how they'll explain being so far off course, and
> I wonder if the lie will include the claim of a hijacking.
>
An alternate island survival camp to compensate for the time difference,
would fit nicely.
A highjacking would allow for the plane being off course so much from the
original flight path, and tie into that 4th level game play, I wont go
into in this posting. Needless to say, I like it :)
>> 2)This season supposedly deals with time travel and other supernatural �
>> elements. Is that accurate, and, if so, are you happy with this
>> direction?
>>
>> Yes and yes.
>
> Well, there you go. The producers can't hide this aspect of the show
> anymore.
>
>> -My Take-
>> 'When is this island?'.
>
> That was the best line in the interview. :)
>
>
I agree! AND this has to be the BEST TV ever!
tdciago
> A highjacking would allow for the plane being off course so much from the �
> original flight path, and tie into that 4th level game play, I wont go �
> into in this posting. Needless to say, I like it :)
I wonder who they'd pin it on...
thinbluemime
When the complete Lost storyline plays out, I seriously doubt it will
ultimately turn out to be any traditionally conceived 'ethnic' highjacking
group. I say this in part because of the world wide viewing audience.
Instead, I suspect it will involve big money, big business, and big
government.
I have other reasons for saying this, but Cuse and Lindelof have mentioned
'Capricorn One', and that's good enough for a starting place, to
conjecture.
tdciago
> When the complete Lost storyline plays out, I seriously doubt it will �
> ultimately turn out to be any traditionally conceived 'ethnic' highjacking �
> group. I say this in part because of the world wide viewing audience.
>
> Instead, I suspect it will involve big money, big business, and big �
> government.
>
> I have other reasons for saying this, but Cuse and Lindelof have mentioned �
> 'Capricorn One', and that's good enough for a starting place, to �
> conjecture.
Well, I think it would have to be one or more people who were known to
be on the plane. Obviously we don't know all the names, and they
could come up with a conspiracy storyline about passengers we never
met.
Of the passengers we *have* met...
If the authorities have figured out that Nikki and Paulo killed
Zuckerman and stole the diamonds, they'd be the perfect (dead)
patsies, who were trying to avoid prosecution by taking the plane to
some other location.
Mr. Eko was also a murderer, and was involved in the drug trade.
Ana Lucia killed a man in L.A., and was certainly tough enough to pull
off a hijacking.
And then there's a certain James "Sawyer" Ford, who also committed a
murder in Australia (and head-butted a government official), and who
has a long criminal history.
thinbluemime
Following that line of reasoning, there is only one logical suspect to pin
the hijacking upon. I won't mention his name, because he is one of my
favorites, and a good soldier :)
Nikki and Paulo were idiots. Anna had no motive, Sawyer was a con man and
not technically savy enough, though I could see Eko as a possibility.
There is another option though. I know tdciago you follow this show
closely and have heard Greg Grunberg (Abrams boyhood friend) may revisit
Lost. Unconfirmed rumor, I know. But who better then the Flight 815 pilot,
to be involved in a conspiracy to divert Flight 815, on purpose? Wouldn't
that be a shocker?! Also, it would provide justification for his immediate
demise by the black smoke monster judgement, upon arrival to his final
destination.
(Flight 815 Intercom: This is your pilot speaking. Please buckle your seat
belts. We are experiencing a little turbulence. But it wont last long,
cause it's gonna get a lot rougher. See my mommy didn't marry the man with
money, so I am left supporting myself on a measly 90 thou a year, and it
just isnt enough to support my skirt chasing, cocaine addiction life
style. Sorry folks, but I need the money worse then you need to get back
to LA, so again, buckle your frikkin seat belts!)
Of course, I speculate :)
Johnn...@webtv.net
>
>EW has an interview with Matthew Fox, some
> of you may have already seen. DarkUFO has
> an entry about the interview, along with vid
> clips. I just read the full interview, and found
> the following 2 points, spoilerish.
>
>1)What is Jack referring to when he says to
> Kate: ''I'm sick of lying. Wemade a mistake''?
>
added to what I've been spewing out here for the last year or so.
I still think we're dealing with an alternate time-line, and if the
divers were to go down to the crash wreckage off Bali, they'd probably
find a dead Jack and Kate, and who ever else got off the island. I
think the lie they're living is that after being rescued from the
island, they concocted a story that they miraculously survived the crash
off Bali. ...They were then (covertly) transported to a nearby spot,
in the Indian ocean, from their island area (in the Pacific).
As I said before, the jet in this time-line was probably hi-jacked by
the war-lord Eko, who, having not been reformed (in this particular
time-line), was trying to fly the jet to Nigeria after it left Sydney.
What other explanation could account for the jet flying NW, instead of
NE? ...Jon
thinbluemime
wrote:
> There is another option though. I know tdciago you follow this show
> closely and have heard Greg Grunberg (Abrams boyhood friend) may revisit
> Lost. Unconfirmed rumor, I know. But who better then the Flight 815
> pilot, to be involved in a conspiracy to divert Flight 815, on purpose?
> Wouldn't that be a shocker?! Also, it would provide justification for
> his immediate demise by the black smoke monster judgement, upon arrival
> to his final destination.
>
> (Flight 815 Intercom: This is your pilot speaking. Please buckle your
> seat belts. We are experiencing a little turbulence. But it wont last
> long, cause it's gonna get a lot rougher. See my mommy didn't marry the
> man with money, so I am left supporting myself on a measly 90 thou a
> year, and it just isnt enough to support my skirt chasing, cocaine
> addiction life style. Sorry folks, but I need the money worse then you
> need to get back to LA, so again, buckle your frikkin seat belts!)
>
> Of course, I speculate :)
>
Just for Reference:
http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Season_1_deleted_scenes_transcript
PILOT: Uh, look. My mom and dad split up when I as 10. My mom got real
depressed; she went and saw this tarot lady that all her friends swore by.
She pays tarot lady $400, and tarot lady tells her she is gonna marry this
tall light-haired man of healing, with a name that starts with the letter
R. Mom was going for Roger.
CLAIRE: What happened?
PILOT: Well, she dumped her boyfriend, Bernard, computer programmer, short
bad comb-over, and then Bernard sold his company from $39 million. My
mom’s still waiting for Roger to show up. Psychics are just magicians that
aren’t good enough to play Vegas. And it may not feel like it, but you
always have a choice.
Robert Harland
Let's not forget that the counterparts of those Oceanic 6 may have led
somewhat different lives. Jack might still be married with Sarah (that would
count for "living the lie", wouldn't it?), whereas Kate might never have
killed that childhood toyplane boyfriend. Maybe Lost island is the magic
platform that allows for changing from one reality to an alternative one.
Maybe from the perspective of the future losties, they already did that just
to always find a world that does not fit everybodys interests. Would remind
me of Sliders (which I liked :)).
Johnn...@webtv.net
>
>Let's not forget that the counterparts of those
> Oceanic 6 may have led somewhat different
> lives. Jack might still be married with Sarah
> (that would count for "living the lie", wouldn't
> it?), whereas Kate might never have killed
> that childhood toyplane boyfriend. Maybe
> Lost island is the magic platform that allows
> for changing from one reality to an alternative
> one. Maybe from the perspective of the future
> losties, they already did that just to always
> find a world that does not fit everybodys
> interests. Would remind me of Sliders (which I
> liked :)).
>
past, I thought: "What have the producers done? They've opened up a can
of worms here which could easily turn the whole series into a mind
boggling mess."
It could actually turn out to be a case where we're dealing with a
collage of realities. ...And we may not be exactly sure when a change
occurs. That could help explain Locke's miraculous gun shot, and
paralysis recovery, or that clip where Hurley appears, when Locke and
Charlie (and the rest of us) thought it was the polar bear attacking.
And remember back at the begining when we see a shot of Jack's eye?
..Well, that could that be a similar start of a "time-repeat" as to
what we saw of the eye of Desmond, waking up in the past after falling
off the paint ladder.
As I said before: I think Desmond is the only one that can foresee
future events -- or snippets of them. ...But I also think Locke, and
Rose have some of that insight too. As for the majority of the other
people there, they're just plodding along with their lives. Perhaps
oblivious to the fact that they're basically re-living it over and over
again. ...Jon
Ryan Robbins
"Robert Harland" <email@invalid> wrote in message
news:477ee530$0$9107$9b4e...@newsspool2.arcor-online.net...
> Let's not forget that the counterparts of those Oceanic 6 may have led
> somewhat different lives. Jack might still be married with Sarah (that
Missed last season's finale, did you?
alooo
"thinbluemime" <thinbl...@tbm.com> wrote
> This could account for the 'whispers' heard on the island, a sort of a
> spill over from one time into the next.
Those aren't whispers. They're Sleestacks. The slight person in the coffin?
Chaka.
Lone Ranger
>As I said before, the jet in this time-line was probably hi-jacked by
>the war-lord Eko, who, having not been reformed (in this particular
>time-line), was trying to fly the jet to Nigeria after it left Sydney.
>What other explanation could account for the jet flying NW, instead
>of NE?
Let's take a look at the map: Flying NW from Sydney would take the
plane towards Indonesia, and straight over Bali. But here's some more:
Cape Town in South Africa is about as far south as Sydney. I'm not
sure what a flight path from Australia to Nigeria would look like, but
I imagine it could be something like this: Fly west from Sydney
towards Perth, west from Perth towards Cape Town, and then north from
Cape Town towards Nigeria. This appears to be the shortest route.
Another alternative: Fly west from Sydney towards Perth, NW from Perth
towards Cocos Island, WNW from Cocso Island towards Diego Garcia
and/or the Seychelles, then WNW towards Nigeria. These two flight
paths would *not* take the plane over Bali. Maybe I'm wrong, but as
far as I can tell it wouldn't make any sense flying NW towards Bali if
you wanted to take the plane from Sydney to Nigeria.
--
Hi-Yo, Silver! Away!
--
The Curse of Tecumseh
http://www.snopes.com/history/american/curse.htm
Lone Ranger
wrote:
>>>A highjacking would allow for the plane being off course so much from
>>>the original flight path, and tie into that 4th level game play, I wont go
>>>into in this posting. Needless to say, I like it :)
>>
>>
>> I wonder who they'd pin it on...
>
>
>When the complete Lost storyline plays out, I seriously doubt it will
>ultimately turn out to be any traditionally conceived 'ethnic' highjacking
>group. I say this in part because of the world wide viewing audience.
>
>Instead, I suspect it will involve big money, big business, and big
>government.
A big conspiracy involving big money, big business, and big
government? God bless George W. Bush. :-)
>I have other reasons for saying this, but Cuse and Lindelof have mentioned
>'Capricorn One', and that's good enough for a starting place, to
>conjecture.
First of all, I don't believe in the "alternate time-line theory" with
two planes - one crashing near Bali and the other on Lost Island. It
just doesn't make any sense in my opinion. Anyway, I do find the
highjacking theory a bit interesting. But the big question is this:
What does the outside world know about the missing plane? What
have they been told by the media, by Oceanic Airlines (the airline
that operated Flight 815), and by the various governments involved
in this case?
According to Naomi (and corroborated by Cooper) the missing plane
was found off the coast of Bali. Neither Naomi nor Cooper said
anything about a highjacking. How come they didn't mention any
highjacking?
One possible answer is that an investigation is now taking place,
and they're trying to find out what happened. They still don't have
all the answers. We have to keep in mind that only three months have
passed, and none of the passengers have been found alive. So the
Bali story becomes a cover up story, because "they" (the people
trying to cover it up) want all the speculation as well as all rescue
operations to end. The world is told that all the passengers have been
found dead. But we *know* that Jack and Kate made it back (and
possibly a few others), so "they" (whoever they are) will have to come
up with a theory why the plane crashed near Bali. And here's where the
highjacking theory in my opinion could come in handy.
Going back to the final episode of season 3 we know that Jack was
called a hero. But what has he done? From the transcript:
[FLASHFORWARD]
[Jack is having stitches put in on a cut on his forehead by a female
doctor]
DOCTOR: There you go. Good as new.
JACK: Thanks.
DOCTOR: The news people are waiting for you outside. You being
a hero and all.
JACK: Right. The woman, how is she?
DOCTOR: She's been stabilized. Thank god you were on that bridge.
JACK: Right.
...
[FLASHFORWARD]
[Jack stands at the foot of a patient's bed looking at their chart.
His hand shakes, and he takes a pill as a male doctor enters]
MALE DOCTOR: Can I help you?
JACK: Just checking her chart.
MALE DOCTOR: I'm sorry I'm Doctor Hamill, Rob. The new chief of
surgery, I don't think we've met yet.
JACK: Jack Shephard.
DR HAMILL: Doctor Shephard, the hero. Twice over.
[He gestures his hand to shake, and Jack reluctantly does so]
DR HAMILL: You all right? After last night I'm surprised that you'd
even want to come in. Talk about right place right time, huh? This
woman is very lucky you were there.
<A little later in the same flashforward ......>
[Jack walks down the ward to see the news on a television]
REPORTER: This morning... [inaudible]... bridge was shut down for
several hours in the wake of a fiery car accident that left two
injured, an unidentified forty year old woman and her son...
[The child is by the TV, and waves to Jack from his seat, and Jack
gestures back kindly]
REPORTER: ...Fortunately for the two of them, Doctor Jack Shephard,
who was at the scene of the crash, pulled both victims from the
burning wreckage and treated them at the scene until paramedics
arrived. The victims were later transported to Saint Sebastian
Hospital. Further details of their conditions have not yet been....
...
FLASHFORWARD]
[Jack is picking up a prescription]
PHARMACIST: I'm sorry, sir, there are no more refills left on this
prescription.
JACK: Ah, that's a mistake. I er, I only refilled it twice, could you
check again?
PHARMACIST: I did check it again Doctor Shephard, and that was
the third refill so there's nothing I can do.
JACK: Fine. I've got another prescription right here.
MAN: Hey, I know you. You're the hero.
JACK: I'm not a hero.
MAN: Yeah yeah, we saw it on TV. Hey lady, what's wrong with you?
Just give this guy whatever he needs. Do you know what he did?
...
The first time I saw this I thought they all referred to the car
accident, but is this really the only thing they are all referring to?
Being a hero twice over? Is there something more here? Could this also
refer to Jack being a hero in regards to Flight 815? This is where I
think the highjacking theory may come in, and where Jack becomes a
"hero" - although he knows he's not a hero.
Ok, let me try to be more specific. The people who tried to cover up
the plane crash thought they had everything under control. Then they
get a message saying that several people from the missing plane have
been found alive somewhere in the Pacific. This screws up everything,
and they have to come up with a new plan. And thus the highjacking
becomes the new story. And Jack becomes a hero. Problem solved.
This is how I think "they" (the people behind the cover up) might tell
the world what happened: En route from Sidney to Los Angeles flight
815 is highjacked by "terrorists" somewhere between Fiji and West
Samoa (where the plane lost radio communication). The "terrorists"
take over the control (after killing the pilots), and a new course is
set. The "terrorists" intend to crash the plane into a building in
either Jakarta or Singapore (remember 9/11?). This would
take flight 815 close to Bali. Somehow the passengers, led by
Jack, manage to either kill the "terrorists" or force the plane down
(remember Flight 93?) before it reaches its intended target. Only a
few of the passengers survive the crash, among them Jack and Kate.
Jack becomes a hero. He is forced to shut up, and he's being
threatened by "them". If he talks, he'll be killed. That's why Jack is
sick of lying.
OK, enough for now. :-)
thinbluemime
<snowba...@bigfoot.com.spamalamadingdong> wrote:
> This is how I think "they" (the people behind the cover up) might tell
> the world what happened: En route from Sidney to Los Angeles flight
> 815 is highjacked by "terrorists" somewhere between Fiji and West
> Samoa (where the plane lost radio communication). The "terrorists"
> take over the control (after killing the pilots), and a new course is
> set. The "terrorists" intend to crash the plane into a building in
> either Jakarta or Singapore (remember 9/11?). This would
> take flight 815 close to Bali. Somehow the passengers, led by
> Jack, manage to either kill the "terrorists" or force the plane down
> (remember Flight 93?) before it reaches its intended target. Only a
> few of the passengers survive the crash, among them Jack and Kate.
> Jack becomes a hero. He is forced to shut up, and he's being
> threatened by "them". If he talks, he'll be killed. That's why Jack is
> sick of lying.
>
Remember the Tonka Truck that Locke found in the Bear Cave, while rescuing
Mr Eko?
Buckle Your Seat Belt, and Get Ready for a Shocker!
From October, 2006
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.tv.lost/msg/f5af2f2a6ecbeede
Listen to the mp3 closely, and remember the words of the fallen heros from
nineoneone
Johnn...@webtv.net
>
>Let's take a look at the map: Flying NW from
> Sydney would take the plane towards
> Indonesia, and straight over Bali. But here's
> some more: Cape Town in South Africa is
> about as far south as Sydney. I'm not sure
> what a flight path from Australia to Nigeria
> would look like, but I imagine it could be
> something like this: Fly west from Sydney
> towards Perth, west from Perth towards Cape
> Town, and then north from Cape Town
> towards Nigeria. This appears to be the
> shortest route. Another alternative: Fly west
> from Sydney towards Perth, NW from Perth
> towards Cocos Island, WNW from Cocso
> Island towards Diego Garcia and/or the
> Seychelles, then WNW towards Nigeria.
> These two flight paths would *not* take the
> plane over Bali. Maybe I'm wrong, but as far
> as I can tell it wouldn't make any sense flying
> NW towards Bali if you wanted to take the
> plane from Sydney to Nigeria.
>
and watch TV. ...Jon
tdciago
> Maybe I'm wrong, but as
> far as I can tell it wouldn't make any sense flying NW towards Bali if
> you wanted to take the plane from Sydney to Nigeria.
I also doubt they'd get Adewale back to film this as a real event in
another timeline. He asked to leave the show, and from what I've
read, there may have been some other issues in getting along with the
cast.
In fact, if it does turn out that there are multiple timelines, this
could present a real problem in trying to depict what happened in
those timelines with actors who have already left the show.
tdciago
> the world what happened: En route from Sidney to Los Angeles flight
> 815 is highjacked by "terrorists" somewhere between Fiji and West
> Samoa (where the plane lost radio communication). The "terrorists"
> take over the control (after killing the pilots), and a new course is
> set. The "terrorists" intend to crash the plane into a building in
> either Jakarta or Singapore (remember 9/11?). This would
> take flight 815 close to Bali. Somehow the passengers, led by
> Jack, manage to either kill the "terrorists" or force the plane down
> (remember Flight 93?) before it reaches its intended target. Only a
> few of the passengers survive the crash, among them Jack and Kate.
> Jack becomes a hero. He is forced to shut up, and he's being
> threatened by "them". If he talks, he'll be killed. That's why Jack is
> sick of lying.
Don't forget that the "terrorists" have to be people already known to
be on flight 815 (unless they claim someone pulled a terrorist-in-the-
coffin trick). *If* they go with this idea, Jack's guilt may be
magnified by agreeing to identify one or more people he knows as
terrorists. That would be a terrible moral dilemma.
By the way, Malaysia has the tallest twin towers in the world, and
would lie in the same general direction as Bali.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petronas_Twin_Towers
thinbluemime
wrote:
> When the complete Lost storyline plays out, I seriously doubt it will
> ultimately turn out to be any traditionally conceived 'ethnic'
> highjacking group. I say this in part because of the world wide viewing
> audience.
>
> Instead, I suspect it will involve big money, big business, and big
> government.
>
> I have other reasons for saying this, but Cuse and Lindelof have
> mentioned 'Capricorn One', and that's good enough for a starting place,
> to conjecture.
>
'Capricorn One' Clip:
http://users.newblog.com/thinbluemime/?post_id=65083
Johnn...@webtv.net
>>
>>I have other reasons for saying this, but
>> Cuse and Lindelof have mentioned
>> 'Capricorn One', and that's good enough for
>> a starting place, to conjecture.
>
>'Capricorn One' Clip:
>
>http://users.newblog.com/thinbluemime/?post_
>id=65083
>
exchanging their JC Penny apparel, for those of some hippy bush
dwellers, then portraying themselves as simple fishermen. ...Jon