Kate convinced me.

[doc...@gmail.com]

Because of a certain line given to Kate in season 5, I know "Lost"'s profferred ending was not its real ending, and that much of season 6 has to be understood only allegorically, not literally.

Kate remarked to her baby that Mr. Choo-Choo knows if he goes into the tunnel, he's never coming out. That line makes sense only if Kate had read "The Lost Special" and/or was familiar with one or more of its derivatives, and understood the relationship of that story to events depicted on "Lost". It would be cheating of a type I'm sure the makers of "Lost" would not have resorted to to have Kate be out of character and commenting on "Lost" itself, so she must have been in character and involved in the conspiracy that produced the events depicted. (The reason she didn't want her DNA tested is that she was afraid it would be discovered, not that her son wasn't related to her, but that SHE was not related to HER OWN ostensible blood relatives.) Some time after I saw the depiction in season 6 of the Anti-Jacob's being shoved down the "track" into the cave from which the black smoke then came, I recognized that as what Kate had presaged -- meaning the writers were still on their planned-out course -- but also saw that IT MADE NO SENSE for Kate to have known about or anticipated that.

But then again, practically NONE of that Jacob-Anti-Jacob-Light-Of-All-Goodness plot that "Lost" ostensibly revolved around made sense, as has been amply observed here & elsewhere. Therefore it is not meant to explain "Lost", except metaphorically. Those scenes -- constituting much, even entire episodes, of season 6 -- must be read allegorically rather than literally. Which means the literal explanation is yet to come.

The allegory in simplest terms says that there was a Big Secret at stake. Although that much doesn't nail it down, I would say that for the makers of "Lost" to have made such significant reference to "The Lost Special", the odds are heavily in favor of that secret's having been in the possession of one or more persons on flight 815. It would also make the most sense for several of the passengers to have been in cahoots. Just by virtue of what is apparent here about Kate, she was almost certainly one of them. Hugo's correspondence to M. Caratal's bodyguard makes him a prime suspect too, and Locke's similarity to Caratal fingers him too.

Bobbo in the Bronxo

[Darren Delgado]

One thing has always baffled me and I guess it can't hurt to ask.

You took every minute detail of Lost's plot and cobbled it to fit in a
ridiculously bizarre theory that existed only in your mind. If you
did all that for 6 years, why stop with the ending? Why not just
incorporate the ending into your dopey doubles story somehow too?

[doc...@gmail.com]

Because some things just DON'T fit unless you interpret them metaphorically. Some of the things that don't fit just don't make any kind of sense AT ALL, like how no-name Adopted Mother was supposed to have slaughtered, apparently, all of civiliz'n on The Island.

But I'm not sure what you're counting as "the ending". Just the final 15 mins. of the show? The concluding episode?

As I see all of season 6, it's a mixture of scenes we're supposed to swallow whole and others that need to be taken metaphorically, with a greater proportion of non-literal scenes toward the close of the series.

Bobbo in the Bronxo

[doc...@gmail.com]

Why did Kate's ostensible mother, ostensibly Diane, look wide-eyed at her, say, "Katie?", and then scream, when Kate visited her in the hospital? You'd think she'd seen a ghost!

I think that's what she did see, in effect. I now believe that at the time of that scene, Diane knew her daughter Katherine had already died. Therefore she knew the person before her was an impostor.

And what of that "Magnetic Resonance Imagining"? Was she subjected (or to be subjected) to the same kind of "treatment" as Faraday's test subjects? And as Desmond? I think she was supposed to be made to forget that the real Kate was dead, just as Jack was supposed to think he still had a living son. "Jack, you don't have a son." Notice he wasn't saying Jack had NEVER had a son.

Bobbo in the Bronxo

[Darren Delgado]

On Apr 3, 11:28 pm, "robg...@bestweb.net" <docs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Why did Kate's ostensible mother, ostensibly Diane, look wide-eyed at her, say, "Katie?",
> and then scream, when Kate visited her in the hospital?  You'd think she'd seen a ghost!

Sorry, she never says "Katie". Kate says "Katie".

KATE: Hi, mom. Can you hear me? Mom?

[Diane opens her eyes.]

KATE: Mom? [Kate cries.] It's me, Katie.

DIANE: Katherine?

KATE: It's me, Katherine. I'm so sorry for everything that I have put
you through.

DIANE: [softly] Help. Help.

KATE: It's okay, mom. It's just me.

DIANE: [more loudly] Help. Help.

KATE: It's okay.

DIANE: Help. Help me. Help me! Somebody help me! Help me, somebody.

It's pretty obvious, she starts screaming because she knows Kate
killed Wayne by setting the house on fire, and she is afraid for her
life because she thinks Kate is a cold-blooded killer, who may be
there to get revenge on her for turning her in.

> And what of that "Magnetic Resonance Imagining"?

It's either a typo, or one of those things they dropped in to seem
clever and deep, that didn't actually mean anything.

[Bill Taylor]

On Apr 4, 5:27 pm, Darren Delgado <darrendelg...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> one of those things they dropped in to seem
> clever and deep, that didn't actually mean anything.

Nooooh! Would they do that!?

Oh Darren, you are SO cynical...

b

[doc...@gmail.com]

On Wednesday, April 4, 2012 1:27:18 AM UTC-4, Darren Delgado wrote:

> On Apr 3, 11:28 pm, "robg...@bestweb.net" <docs...@gmail.com> wrote:

> It's pretty obvious, she starts screaming because she knows Kate
> killed Wayne by setting the house on fire, and she is afraid for her
> life because she thinks Kate is a cold-blooded killer, who may be
> there to get revenge on her for turning her in.

Sure, that's what they cleverly constructed the present'n to make you think.

> > And what of that "Magnetic Resonance Imagining"?
>
> It's either a typo, or one of those things they dropped in to seem
> clever and deep, that didn't actually mean anything.

You don't think it had any relationship to the electromagnetic mind control we saw Desmond in season 6 subjected to? Or to whatever "Faraday" (a phony name if ever there was one) was doing to animals & humans previously? (And which he apparently did to his lookalike, judging by the results.)

I think something similar was being referred to when Locke asked Boone, "Is that what it made you see?" The present'n was cleverly constructed to make us think Locke was referring to some ingredient of the paste he'd put in Boone's wound (For the injury Locke gave him!), but I think now it was some electromagnetic influence on the mind that accompanied the Monster phenomenon. The same buried control wires that moved the "black smoke" around must've also carried some hypnotic heebie-jeebie.

Bobbo in the Bronxo

[Darren Delgado]

On Apr 5, 5:06 pm, "robg...@bestweb.net" <docs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wednesday, April 4, 2012 1:27:18 AM UTC-4, Darren Delgado wrote:
> > On Apr 3, 11:28 pm, "robg...@bestweb.net" <docs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > It's pretty obvious, she starts screaming because she knows Kate
> > killed Wayne by setting the house on fire, and she is afraid for her
> > life because she thinks Kate is a cold-blooded killer, who may be
> > there to get revenge on her for turning her in.
>
> Sure, that's what they cleverly constructed the present'n to make you think.

Stop backtracking. First you said there was no possible explanation
for Kate's mother screaming in horror, other than your ridiculous
doubles theory.

Then when I pointed out a very obvious explanation which everyone in
the audience but you got immediately, you are switching too "don't
believe the obvious." Even though a minute ago you said that "the
obvious" didn't make any sense.

> > > And what of that "Magnetic Resonance Imagining"?
>
> > It's either a typo, or one of those things they dropped in to seem
> > clever and deep, that didn't actually mean anything.
>
> You don't think it had any relationship to the electromagnetic mind control we saw Desmond in season 6 subjected to?  Or to whatever "Faraday" (a phony name if ever there was one) was doing to animals & humans previously?  (And which he apparently did to his lookalike, judging by the results.)

No. I don't think they had written any of that other stuff yet in
Season 1. The writers even admitted they had not conceived of Desmond
at all yet, let alone the later plot that he had a super-power to be
able to absorb electromagnetism.

[Bill Taylor]

On Apr 6, 4:09 pm, Darren Delgado <darrendelg...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Stop backtracking.

He's not backtracking.

That's just Rob's double weighing in with a new PoV.

Obvious, really....

-- Bbiillll

[Darren Delgado]

How did I not pick that up myself? It was as obvious as the light
switch.

[doc...@gmail.com]

On Friday, April 6, 2012 12:09:11 AM UTC-4, Darren Delgado wrote:

> On Apr 5, 5:06 pm, "robg...@bestweb.net" <docs...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > On Wednesday, April 4, 2012 1:27:18 AM UTC-4, Darren Delgado wrote:

> > > On Apr 3, 11:28 pm, "robg...@bestweb.net" <docs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > It's pretty obvious, she starts screaming because she knows Kate
> > > killed Wayne by setting the house on fire, and she is afraid for her
> > > life because she thinks Kate is a cold-blooded killer, who may be
> > > there to get revenge on her for turning her in.
> >
> > Sure, that's what they cleverly constructed the present'n to make you think.
>
> Stop backtracking. First you said there was no possible explanation
> for Kate's mother screaming in horror, other than your ridiculous
> doubles theory.

Where did I say "no possible explanation...other than..."? There's practically ALWAYS an "obvious' interpret'n of things on "Lost" -- and I think a great many of those were the product of clever writing to mislead the audience. That's how good mystery writing is done. If it weren't, they wouldn't be mysteries. The writers have to put a lot of effort into throwing viewers off track, while at the same time being able to say, "The clues were there, you just had to read them correctly."

When "Lost" ostensibly concluded, it appeared we'd been had -- that it had never been a mystery show, the misleading was away from the fact that it was not a mystery show. Now I think it was a mystery after all, and that the misleading has gone a step further by deliberately making us think the story was over when it wasn't.

BTW, that's a problem in mystery novel writing and even other fiction writing -- the fact that the reader can see how much of the book is left, and infer from that how much or little present'n remains. Knowing when the climax is coming detracts from it quite a bit. Heinlein managed to beat that problem in a couple of novels by ending the story halfway thru by surprise and starting another.

> Then when I pointed out a very obvious explanation which everyone in
> the audience but you got immediately, you are switching too "don't
> believe the obvious." Even though a minute ago you said that "the
> obvious" didn't make any sense.

I didn't way it didn't make ANY sense, just that it was SUSPICIOUS. Suspicious behavior always makes some other kind of sense, that's why it's just suspicious rather than confessory.

> > > > And what of that "Magnetic Resonance Imagining"?
> >
> > > It's either a typo, or one of those things they dropped in to seem
> > > clever and deep, that didn't actually mean anything.
> >
> > You don't think it had any relationship to the electromagnetic mind control we saw Desmond in season 6 subjected to?  Or to whatever "Faraday" (a phony name if ever there was one)

Which of course was why Desmond wasn't able to look him up at Cambridge by that name.

> > was doing to animals & humans previously?  (And which he apparently did to his lookalike, judging by the results.)

> No. I don't think they had written any of that other stuff yet in
> Season 1. The writers even admitted they had not conceived of Desmond
> at all yet,

I think they lied. 2nd guess is that they didn't lie, but were telling just a technical truth -- they didn't have Desmond per se in mind but would've done much the same thing with another character.

> let alone the later plot that he had a super-power to be
> able to absorb electromagnetism.

You mean his super-power to be able to absorb their electromagnetic brain manipul'n without ending up quite as brain-damaged as another character we saw!

Bobbo in the Bronxo

[doc...@gmail.com]

> I didn't way it didn't make ANY sense, just that it was SUSPICIOUS. Suspicious behavior always makes some other kind of sense, that's why it's just suspicious rather than confessory.

And in case you hadn't noticed, when it came to "Lost", I considered practically EVERYTHING suspicious, i.e. that the meaning of everything on the show was going to be changed at the end by what TV Tropes calls a tomato surprise. I even thought some of it was going to be word plays, as in "fail safe", and "I made a strong case for you"; ostensible figures of speech to be taken literally, such as "not the man we thought he was"; punctuation tricks, such as "Are you, Jack?" ("Are you Jack?") and "They're not the survivors/they thought they were" ("They're not the survivors. They thought they were."); and sneakily elided pronouns, such as "[Grunt] look just like him."

Now I think it's going to be a ROTTEN tomato surprise, i.e. a tomato that was left in the back somewhere long past the ostensible curtain-down.

Bobbo in the Bronxo

[Darren Delgado]

On Apr 6, 5:19 pm, "robg...@bestweb.net" <docs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Friday, April 6, 2012 12:09:11 AM UTC-4, Darren Delgado wrote:
> > On Apr 5, 5:06 pm, "robg...@bestweb.net" <docs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, April 4, 2012 1:27:18 AM UTC-4, Darren Delgado wrote:
> > > > On Apr 3, 11:28 pm, "robg...@bestweb.net" <docs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > It's pretty obvious, she starts screaming because she knows Kate
> > > > killed Wayne by setting the house on fire, and she is afraid for her
> > > > life because she thinks Kate is a cold-blooded killer, who may be
> > > > there to get revenge on her for turning her in.
>
> > > Sure, that's what they cleverly constructed the present'n to make you think.
>
> > Stop backtracking.  First you said there was no possible explanation
> > for Kate's mother screaming in horror, other than your ridiculous
> > doubles theory.
>
> Where did I say "no possible explanation...other than..."?

You implied it, when you said "Why did Kate's ostensible mother,

ostensibly Diane, look wide-eyed at her, say, "Katie?", and then
scream, when Kate visited her in the hospital? You'd think she'd seen
a ghost!"

There was a perfectly reasonable explanation why she screamed. She was
afraid Kate was going to kill her for revenge after having turned her
in. But in your post you tried to make it sound like the situation
made no sense unless Kate was a double, or whatever your retarded
theory was.

> There's practically ALWAYS an "obvious' interpret'n of things on "Lost" -- and I think a great many of those were the product of clever writing to mislead the audience.  That's how good mystery writing is done.

Except that when they gave the explanation at the end, it was the
perfectly straightforward one.

[doc...@gmail.com]

At the end of what? All of "Lost"?

[Darren Delgado]

Yes.

[doc...@gmail.com]

For some values of "straightforward", I suppose. Not the way I would use the word.

[paracelsso]

I was dissapointed with the ending of
this tv series

[Bill Taylor]

On Jun 9, 10:52 pm, click...@hotmail-dot-com.no-spam.invalid

(paracelsso) wrote:

> I was dissapointed with the ending of this tv series

WHO WASN'T !?

- bah!

[Darren Delgado]

There were a few people who would have swallowed any bullshit ending
they threw up there. Not many in this forum (which is why it's now
dead), but quite a few at the Fuselage, and other forums. I know it's
unbelievable, but some people actually liked the ending.