"They're in purgatory."
Mickmils
back up yet ? :D
-Moa Dragon
thinbluemime
It has. Try the "Damon Lindelof Speaks 2007-04-26" thread
Damon Lindelof again denies the losties are dead or in purgatory
--
http://users.newblog.com/thinbluemime/?blogcategory_id=218
Dano
"Mickmils" <Mick...@removethis.gmail.com> wrote in message
news:46311404$0$18011$426a...@news.free.fr...
> Why hasn't this rumour been brought
> back up yet ? :D
>
thelo...@lost.lost
> Damon Lindelof again denies the losties are dead or in purgatory
This just means that Lindelof has created a narrow definition of
death/purgatory that is minutely different from the usual definition for
death/purgatory.
Personally, I don't see why a producer/writer ever needs to tell people what
his work is about. It's really lame.
--thelostguy
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him...@animail.net
> > It has. Try the "Damon Lindelof Speaks 2007-04-26" thread
> > Damon Lindelof again denies the losties are dead or in purgatory
>
> This just means that Lindelof has created a narrow definition of
> death/purgatory that is minutely different from the usual definition for
> death/purgatory.
>
himiko (who never believes writers/producers in any case because they
tend to lie)
Roarmeister
<Mick...@removethis.gmail.com> wrote:
>Why hasn't this rumour been brought
>back up yet ? :D
This is just the writer's nod to the viewership that proudly insist
that it has to be purgatory. Let the viewers rot in TV hell. :-)
Red
I don't care what anyone says, they are dead and in purgatory. No
doubt about it. Even if Lindolf or anyone else says it's not, it is.
That's why all the flashbacks. To see what they have done wrong in
their lives. I still love the show even if it's being drawn out. I
have accepted they are dead and will continue to watch as they go from
purgatory to heaven or hell.
Ford T. FreezerClown
"Red" <RedRed...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1177639271.2...@n35g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
you've got to be kidding.
David B
Because it's lame. If they're all dead then why should I give two shits
about what happens to any of the characters? The Purgatory theory just
turns the story into a big nothing.
WG...@webtv.net
] (Red)
]I don't care what anyone says, they are dead
] and in purgatory. No doubt about it. Even if
] Lindolf or anyone else says it's not, it is. That's
] why all the flashbacks. To see what they have
] done wrong in their lives. I still love the show
] even if it's being drawn out. I have accepted
] they are dead and will continue to watch as
] they go from purgatory to heaven or hell.
So where did Shannon, and Boone go when they died, Heaven or Hell? Where
did everyone who has died on Lost Island go, Heaven, or Hell? Is Lost
Island the gateway to Heaven, or Hell?
PuddinTame
> There's also the Gary Troup anagram.
Which is...?
tdciago
GARY TROUP = PURGATORY
Running Scissors
You're jumping to huge conclusions based on what a person who fell out
of the sky and is near death muttered. It may not be true or accurate.
(but I do tend to agree that there is something purgatory-like going
on) I certainly hope we don;t find out it's some deus ex sci-fi
machina at the end of the show.
Running Scissors
Not very deep, are you?
Running Scissors
Purgatory is the gateway to either heaven or Hell. Where you get
shipped offt to all depends on how you face your demons and if you
repent fot your sins.
Running Scissors
Don't bite my head off. Simple answer please.
Who is Gary Troup?
tdciago
> This just means that Lindelof has created a narrow definition of
> death/purgatory that is minutely different from the usual definition for
> death/purgatory.
What Kristin didn't print was Damon's follow-up response:
"We prefer to call it Matzo-tory."
:)
It's interesting that Mikhail mentioned a purge, which comes from the
same Latin root as purgatory.
tdciago
> Don't bite my head off. Simple answer please.
>
> Who is Gary Troup?
The fictional author of _Bad Twin_. (It was actually written by
Laurence Shames.) He was on the plane, and rumor has it he may have
been Engine-Sucked Guy. Hurley found the manuscript for _Bad Twin_
somewhere in the recovered luggage. Gary Troup was dating Cindy
Chandler, the flight attendant who is now with the Others.
Running Scissors
Thank you.
Tere
1) There have been a couple of shows with flashbacks to events on the
island.
2) Babys are not born in purgatory.
3) The last scene in season two was off-island but not a flashback and
showed Penny's men's (appearently) finding Desmond. That was a first.
I'm sure I could think of more...
bill
Classic purgatory is a place in which your sins are scrubbed off your
soul to make it presentable for heaven. It is thought to be a painful
process.
This concept fits LOST rather well in some respects though, as you
note, not in others.
Despite the fact that the producers deny the purgatory theory, I still
suspect that they originally had in mind something like purgatory.
By the end of the first season, many fans had independently arrived at
the purgatory theory as a general explanation. Being unwilling to
admit that their show's secret had been figured-out, they denied this,
and may even have evolved their own conception of the story away from
away from a purgatory-based one.
In addition to the points you have above about problems with the
purgatory theory, there are others, such as the complexity of the
DHARMA and Others structure. While it may be necessary in purgatory
to present the sinners with things to react to so as to offer them an
opportunity at purification, the complexity of Dharma and the Others
seems excessive if that is their purpose.
On the other hand, perhaps DHARMA and the Others are just like the
losties, sinners who died in some group accident and ended-up in
purgatory.
While the birth of babies would seem to be insconsistent with the
purgatory theory (on the grounds that innocents have no sins to be
burned off), perhaps the producers decided that it is just babies
conceived on the island that can not be born. Still, I agree with you
that it is difficult to see what Claire's baby would need to atone for
in purgatory. That baby is the biggest argument against the purgatory
theroy.
Whatever it is the producers are holding back, I'll predict that many
will be disappointed by it.
Bill
masonReloaded
> 2) Babys are not born in purgatory.
Why not? If smoke monsters, polar bears etc can be "real" in
pugatory, why not babies? If (and I dont think they are) in purgatory
- in the "purgatory reality" Sun may have been made "pregnant" to
force her to work through the issues (and past sins) surrounding her
marriage. Same with Claire being made to work through her feelings of
abandonment towards her own baby - which actually works considering
she was going to give it away and then had to cope with the fear of it
being "stolen" on the island.
Damot
I think you're right, the writers had to change the direction of the
show, or their definition of purgatory because it was pretty obvious
to the viewers/fans.
It still won't surprise me if the final scene of the series shows them
all sitting on the plane again just before it crashes.
I'm willing to bet it all ends without any proper explanation and left
in such a way that fans with argue about it for years.
I've also stated before that I believe the fans on the internet will
be told they played a big part in the writers deciding which way the
plot should go. That way everyone will feel a little less annoyed at
the crappy unresolved ending because they'll feel pleased they "played
a part" in creating the series.
Steven L.
>> It has. Try the "Damon Lindelof Speaks 2007-04-26" thread
>> Damon Lindelof again denies the losties are dead or in purgatory
>
> This just means that Lindelof has created a narrow definition of
> death/purgatory that is minutely different from the usual definition for
> death/purgatory.
Well, like I said before, even if you don't call it "purgatory," it
could still amount to the same thing conceptually. I don't really care
what label you put on it:
Purgatory
Hell
Limbo
Purdah
Alternate dimension
Alternate timeline
Parallel universe
Giving it a technobabble name (e.g., "alternate timeline") doesn't
change the concept. Lindelof may end up saying "We said they weren't in
purgatory; they're really in an alternate dimension." So what?
Remember the movie "It's a Wonderful Life," in which George Bailey gets
to be in an alternate timeline in which he was never born? Judging by
his reaction, that was "purgatory" for him.
--
Steven D. Litvintchouk
Email: sdli...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net
Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.
him...@animail.net
> thelost...@lost.lost wrote:
> >> It has. Try the "Damon Lindelof Speaks 2007-04-26" thread
> >> Damon Lindelof again denies the losties are dead or in purgatory
>
> > This just means that Lindelof has created a narrow definition of
> > death/purgatory that is minutely different from the usual definition for
> > death/purgatory.
>
> Well, like I said before, even if you don't call it "purgatory," it
> could still amount to the same thing conceptually. I don't really care
> what label you put on it:
>
> Purgatory
> Hell
> Limbo
> Purdah
> Alternate dimension
> Alternate timeline
> Parallel universe
>
in some Hindu and Muslim culture...which I would regard as hell, but
not purgatory.
Otherwise, I agree with your main point.
himiko
> Giving it a technobabble name (e.g., "alternate timeline") doesn't
> change the concept. Lindelof may end up saying "We said they weren't in
> purgatory; they're really in an alternate dimension." So what?
>
> Remember the movie "It's a Wonderful Life," in which George Bailey gets
> to be in an alternate timeline in which he was never born? Judging by
> his reaction, that was "purgatory" for him.
>
> --
> Steven D. Litvintchouk
> Email: sdlit...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net
Johnn...@webtv.net
>
>Well, like I said before, even if you don't call it
> "purgatory," it could still amount to the same
> thing conceptually. I don't really care what
> label you put on it
>
the stage "after" a person dies. ...In the context of the series, we're
not really dealing with that. ...Now if you looked into what's
currently going on with Boone, or Shannon, or AnaL, etc., then you'd be
in the purgatory bracket.
What we're seeing, IMO, is more like a suspended real life, and a shot
of a side-line alternate reality. ...As I said before, I think the whole
time aspect will ultimately be corrected, and we'll be back on the jet
(or at an earlier stage), but all the participants will still have the
inner knowledge they attained while being "Lost", but will ultimately be
the better for it.
..You see, what we have been seeing a lot of are "Daddy" issues.
.However, the Losties are currently coming to terms with them. ...Even
Sawyer. I think he already has a different perspective on babies
(being around Aaron), which could ultimately work to bring him and his
own daughter closer together. ...Something that probaby never would
have happened, had they not crashed. ...Jon
Ron
> sdlit...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net (Steven L.) wrote:
>
> >Well, like I said before, even if you don't call it
> > "purgatory," it could still amount to the same
> > thing conceptually. I don't really care what
> > label you put on it
>
> However... I think with the definition of purgatory, you're dealing with
> the stage "after" a person dies. ...In the context of the series, we're
> not really dealing with that. ...Now if you looked into what's
> currently going on with Boone, or Shannon, or AnaL, etc., then you'd be
> in the purgatory bracket.
Ever seen the movie "Purgatory"?
Plot summary for
Purgatory (1999) (TV)
An outlaw band flees a posse and rides into Refuge, a small town where
no one carries a gun, drinks, or swears. The town is actually
Purgatory, and the peaceful inhabitants are all famous dead outlaws
and criminals such as Doc Holiday and Wild Bill Hickok who must redeem
themselves before gaining admittance to Heaven...or screw up and go to
Hell. The residents must either defend themselves against the outlaws
and risk eternal damnation... or die a second time.
Johnn...@webtv.net
So you are suggesting that the Others are actually dead, waiting to be
judged by say someone like Jacob... And the Losties sort of wandered
into their purgatory world?
Interesting idea, but I don't think it would work. What about Ben, who
claims to have lived his whole life there? ...Jon
him...@animail.net
Possibly part of this purgatory experience is that the dead don't know
they're being tested and/or judged. In such a case, they would all
have some explanation for how they got there. The Losties have the
plane crash. Juliet has the orange juice. Michail has the sub. And
so on. Ben believes he was born there. It could work.
I kinda hope that isn't the case. I think it's lame. But it could
work.
himiko
Johnn...@webtv.net
>
>Possibly part of this purgatory experience is
> that the dead don't know they're being tested
> and/or judged. In such a case, they would all
> have some explanation for how they got
> there. The Losties have the plane crash.
> Juliet has the orange juice. Michail has the
> sub. And so on. Ben believes he was born
> there. It could work.
>
>I kinda hope that isn't the case. I think it's
> lame. But it could work.
>
don't know what happens after you die (and neither does anyone else, for
that matter), but it doesn't make sense that one would go to a place
where he'd still have to eat, work, and struggle to survive. ...If
anything, from a religious stand-point, we are basically on trial right
now as we live our lives here on Earth, so having another trial after
we die would be totally redundant.
I think I'll stick to the idea that being dead does not discriminate
between whether one is on our Earth, or in this snow-globe. Thus, as
far as Mikhail goes, we are either seeing a different time line, or (as
I said in another post,) he stuffed a frog in his mouth to create the
foam, and had one of those spiders bite him just before Locke tossed him
through the fence barrier.
I do believe we are dealing with a manipulation of time, which after
watching a special on Bob Lazar (Area 51...UFO material), the idea may
not be as far-fetched as many may think. ...Jon
Running Scissors
> him...@animail.net wrote:
>
>>Possibly part of this purgatory experience is
>>that the dead don't know they're being tested
>>and/or judged. In such a case, they would all
>>have some explanation for how they got
>>there. The Losties have the plane crash.
>>Juliet has the orange juice. Michail has the
>>sub. And so on. Ben believes he was born
>>there. It could work.
>>
>>I kinda hope that isn't the case. I think it's
>>lame. But it could work.
>>
>
> I really doubt there's any "purgatory" involvement with the series. I
> don't know what happens after you die (and neither does anyone else, for
> that matter), but it doesn't make sense that one would go to a place
> where he'd still have to eat, work, and struggle to survive.
Unless, of course, you understand the concept of Purgatory.
> ...If
> anything, from a religious stand-point, we are basically on trial right
> now as we live our lives here on Earth, so having another trial after
> we die would be totally redundant.
Nevertheless, the conept of Purgatory still exists, as you say, from a
religious standpoint.
You may not believe in it, but that doesn't make the concept unreal.
Johnn...@webtv.net
>
>Unless, of course, you understand the concept
> of Purgatory.
>
who have died penitent are made fit for paradise by expiating venial
sins and undergoing any punishment remaining for previously forgiven
sins. 2) Any place or state of temporary banishment , suffering, or
punishment
>
>Nevertheless, the concept of Purgatory still
> exists, as you say, from a religious
> standpoint.
>
>You may not believe in it, but that doesn't
> make the concept unreal.
>
not RC), I'm just saying I don't believe that what we are seeing on LOST
is a version of it. ....Jon