Something else to narrow the date of events a little more.
Hunter
episode of "Lost" (3/29/06).
.
..
.
..
.
.
.
..
.
.
.
..
.
.
.
..
.
.
..
.
.
..
Getting back to the subject of when exactly the events of Lost occur,
some say in the recent past of say 1999 others like me say it is
happing "now", that is 2004 when the series debuted (remember by the
time the second season ends they have been on the island only for about
two months) People used ipods and Boston Red Sox references to date the
show, I noticed in the last episode something. Now, this could be a
production oversight or a clue, but when Locke's dad was opened the bag
of money and gave Locke his share, the bill bundles were all the new
Ben Franklin 100's. I forgot; they came out when? In 2002? Again,
unless someone in the proper department fell asleep there is a clue as
to when things are taking place.
---->Hunter
Ryan Robbins
"Hunter" <buffh...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:1143808566.3...@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Spoiler space since this gives away a bit of the story in the last
> episode of "Lost" (3/29/06).
The episode has aired. You can't spoil food that's been eaten already.
Shemnon
occur,
some say in the recent past of say 1999 others like me say it is
happing "now", that is 2004 when the series debuted"
According to the notes on the blast door, (REF:
http://www.thetailsection.com/uploaded_images/cleanwall-707484.jpg) The
earliest date is 12.07.81 the newest date is 01.06.05
As this was obviously done by someone other than those on the Oceanic
flight due to the fact they knew nothing of it, nor of most of the
other locations on the island, they must have arrived on the island
sometime after Jan 2005
Unknown
<ShemnonSh...@gmail.com> wrote:
Ok, this could be a little far-fetched ... but, if their giving clues
about dates, this may be a possible clue ...
When Locke is leaving Nadia's house after his inspection, he walks to
his car and we get a shot of a neigbor's mailbox with the address
94-1007. This could represent 10/07/94. The cloudy skies fit with an
October date.
rob...@bestweb.net
How do you know it's not pre-dated, or referring to the future? Or
total horseshit?
tdciago
MoonWeed wrote:
> >According to the notes on the blast door, (REF:
> >http://www.thetailsection.com/uploaded_images/cleanwall-707484.jpg) The
> >earliest date is 12.07.81 the newest date is 01.06.05
I see that date as 1/6/03 on
http://lost.cubit.net/pics/2x17/blastDoorMapOverlay.jpg and the URL you
gave as well.
Hunter
Sigh. Never mind. I finally did what I should had done in the first
place and looked it up. The large portrait Ben Franklin $100 bill was
introduced in 1996. Oh well. Note to self: ALWAS consult Wikipedia
before posting:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_United_States_dollar#Greenbacks
---->Hunter
Casey Provance
you have some poor chap who stumbled upon the island after 1985 and before
2003 who attempted to piece together DHARMA's site...making various
notes...and then scribbling in latin when he started to go mad.
Now who might that person be? Henry Gale? Maybe!! He entered something
into the computer that was not "the numbers" and gave Locke a chance to see
his work, maybe help them along. I don't think Henry is a bad guy, but
rather someone trying to help fight the "others' factions"
The map, is very cool and gave us lots of answers to the mythology!!!
- Kev
"Hunter" <buffh...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:1143808566.3...@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Ryan Robbins
>
>Note to self: ALWAS consult Wikipedia
> before posting:
Wikipedia is not exactly a reliable source of information.
Hunter
Want to bet? Find a fact about that article that is inaccurate.
---->Hunter
Ryan Robbins
The Wikipedia entries for my city are riddled with mistakes. I can just
imagine what the encyclopedia's accuracy is with other articles. Thevery
nature of the publication makes it suspect.
Hunter
Ryan Robbins wrote:
> "Hunter" <buffh...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:1143889540....@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > Ryan Robbins wrote:
> >> "Hunter" <buffh...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> >> news:1143867407....@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
> >> >
> >> >Note to self: ALWAS consult Wikipedia
> >> > before posting:
> >>
> >> Wikipedia is not exactly a reliable source of information.
> > ---
> > Want to bet? Find a fact about that article that is inaccurate.
>
> The Wikipedia entries for my city are riddled with mistakes. I can just
> imagine what the encyclopedia's accuracy is with other articles. Thevery
> nature of the publication makes it suspect.
----
What city are you in and give me a couple of examples of erroneous
data.
----->Hunter
Ryan Robbins
Bangor, Maine.
Errors
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangor_Area_Transit
(1) Wikipedia implies that "BAT" stands for "Bangor Area Transit." "BAT"
doesn't stand for anything. There is no "Bangor Area Transit" entity.
(2) Wikipedia says there are 15 buses in the fleet. There are 16, according
to the city.
(3) Wikipedia says that air conditioning is seldom needed in this area.
(4) Wikipedia says the bus system serves several Wal-Marts. It serves only
two.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangor%2C_Maine
(5) Wikipedia says the Bangor Public Library was founded in 1830. It was
founded in 1883.
(6) The Penobscot Theatre Company's name is misspelled as "Theater."
(7) Wikipedia says that Mount Hope Cemetery is the nation's oldest garden
cemetery. It is the second-oldest garden cemetery.
(8) Wikipedia says the Bangor Daily News has the largest circulation of
newspapers in Maine. The Portland Press Herald/Maine Sunday Telegram has the
largest circulation.
(9) Wikipedia implies that the Bangor Blue Ox played four seasons: 1995,
1996, 1997, and 1998. The team played in 1996 and 1997.
(10) Wikipedia says that Mansfield Stadium and the Beth Pancoe Pool are
adjacent to Hayford Park. They are actually in Hayford Park.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_King
(11) Wikipedia says Mansfield Stadium (referred to only as "a Little League
stadium") opened in 2002. It opened in 1992.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangor_Auditorium
(12) Wikipedia says the Bangor Auditorium was built in 1958. The Auditorium
opened in 1955.
Asterbark
Are you incredulous that a reference that is editable by the general public
wouldn't have any mistakes in it? Always back up your wiki facts from
another source before stating them as fact. Just because an article has no
mistakes in it is no reason to figure none of them have mistakes,
intentional and unintentional, in them.
Hunter
You sure about that about "The Pine Tree State? Click on each non
Wikipedia
link and scroll down a bit on both pages:
http://www.exploremaine.org/bus/fixedroute.html
www.mcbvi.org/resource/Transportation.htm
>
> (2) Wikipedia says there are 15 buses in the fleet. There are 16, according
> to the city.
----
Oh come on now. Compared to YOUR above mistake this is almost
meaningless.
And here is another source that says 15 and not 16:
http://www.economicexpert.com/a/Bangor:Area:Transit.htm
The last time the wiki page for BAT was updated was July 15, 2005.
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bangor_Area_Transit&action=history
Perhaps the City added a bus since then?
>
> (3) Wikipedia says that air conditioning is seldom needed in this area.
----
Probably isn't given the climate. According to..
http://bangorinfo.com/Special/bangor_temps.html
The average temp in June, July and August is 63.9, 69.2 and 67.7
Fahrenheit respectively
>
> (4) Wikipedia says the bus system serves several Wal-Marts. It serves only
> two.
----
Economic Expert.com say it serves *several* Wal-marts and the line
connects
*several* malls. Quote:
"The BAT system is structured to make it easy for riders to reach
points
of interest in the Bangor area and serves several Wal-Marts,
the Bangor Mall, several other shopping centers, and Husson College.
In 2004, the Mall Hopper line was added to facilitate easy connections
between the Airport Mall, the Bangor Mall, and the Broadway Shopping
Center.
The Mall Hopper is also the first line not to go through the Bangor
Depot."
http://www.economicexpert.com/a/Bangor:Area:Transit.htm
There are probably "several" Wal-Marts at all those shopping centers.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangor%2C_Maine
>
> (5) Wikipedia says the Bangor Public Library was founded in 1830. It was
> founded in 1883.
----
The 1830 date reaches back when the "library" was "seven books in a
footlocker:
But I give you this one since the Library as it is now was not
established until
1883.
>
> (6) The Penobscot Theatre Company's name is misspelled as "Theater."
----
This is any even sillier complaint than the missing bus. That was
either a
typo or perhaps the writer(s) of the article was using American
spelling
unconsciously and reflexively. Or perhaps the author of the article was
using a
spell checker that used American spelling. I just used mine and it
caught the same
"mistake" and wanted to "correct" the classic British spelling with the
American one.
>
> (7) Wikipedia says that Mount Hope Cemetery is the nation's oldest garden
> cemetery. It is the second-oldest garden cemetery.
This maybe your first real goof you have pointed out:
>
> (8) Wikipedia says the Bangor Daily News has the largest circulation of
> newspapers in Maine. The Portland Press Herald/Maine Sunday Telegram has the
> largest circulation.
----
The largest *daily* News paper it qualifies.
Stats for the Portland Press Herald/Maine Sunday Telegram:
The weekday circulation is 76,000 Sunday is 127,000
"Daily circulation is in the five Southern Maine counties; Sunday
circulation is statewide."
Sunday circulation is statewide for the PPH/MST.
http://www.asne.org/index.cfm?ID=37
Here is a site for the BDM circulation data:
http://w3.nexis.com/sources/scripts/info.pl?144564
The BDN is published only six days a week It has a *Daily*
circulation of 200,000 plus a further 230,000 on Saturday
It seems that the PPH/MST has a weekday circulation of 76,000
compared to 200,000 for the BDN. Sunday for the PPH/MST is 127,000
compared to 230,000 for the "Maine Weekend".
I did find this:
http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/contact_us/rc_sites/
It says "MaineToday.com is the Web site of the
Portland Press Herald/Maine Sunday Telegram, Maine's largest daily
newspaper,..."
but that contradicts with what I found above. So call it a draw.
>
> (9) Wikipedia implies that the Bangor Blue Ox played four seasons: 1995,
> 1996, 1997, and 1998. The team played in 1996 and 1997.
-----
This August 23,1997 New Standard article says that the Blue Ox was two
years old. That would put it at early 1995 as its creation at least
unless the team was created late in 1995
after the baseball season.
http://www.s-t.com/daily/08-97/08-23-97/a01lo007.htm
According to GoBlackbears.com:
"Mahaney Diamond previously served as the home field of the
Bangor Blue Ox, a member of the Northeast Independent League from 1996
to 1997."
http://goblackbears.cstv.com/facilities/main-mahaney.html
It could be read as the stadium serving as the home field for two
years, not the team being
in the league for only two years. But if it meant that it was in the
league for only
two years then it will contradict the previous link.
However, there is this:
http://www.digitalballparks.com/Northeast.html
>From this it seems conclusive that they were only in the league for two
season. Also
from this a clue to what caused the mistake of the contributor to
Wikipedia: The LEAGUE as named as the Northeast League existed under
that name for five years, from 1995-1998. That is the source of the
mistake. The author confused team with the League. Couple this to the
Go Black Bears site it is clearly an error on Wiki's part.
>
> (10) Wikipedia says that Mansfield Stadium and the Beth Pancoe Pool are
> adjacent to Hayford Park. They are actually in Hayford Park.
-----
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_King
http://www.digitalballparks.com/Amateur/StevenKing_640_5.html
One can argue that the Stadium was in Mr. King's backyard. :-)
"Adjacent" and "in" in this context is a minor difference (the stadium
has a specific street address with the entrance on the street), but
more important admittedly than the number of buses. I will correct it
and other errors when I get a chance.
>
> (11) Wikipedia says Mansfield Stadium (referred to only as "a Little League
> stadium") opened in 2002. It opened in 1992.
-----
You are clearly wrong and Wiki doesn't mention any date for the
stadium's
construction and does not refer to it as just a Little league park.
this is
what is said about it with the context intact:
"Also residing there is Stephen King, the prolific and internationally
popular
author best known for his horror-themed stories, novels, and movies.
His wife, Tabitha Spruce-King, is also a well-known writer and lives
with him. They donate a substantial amount of money to local libraries
and
hospitals and have funded a baseball stadium, Mansfield Stadium, and
the
Beth Pancoe Pool, both adjacent to Hayford Park, for the citizens,
especially
the children, of the city to use."
That is the only reference to it. No mention of date, just the location
which may or mayn't be correct.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangor_Auditorium
>
> (12) Wikipedia says the Bangor Auditorium was built in 1958. The Auditorium
> opened in 1955.
----
According to "Bangor in Focus" you are totally right
http://bangorinfo.com/Focus/focus_bangor_auditorium.html
Another clear hit for you and one I can also correct.
So lets put it all together: With Question....
1. You were clearly wrong. It does stand for Bangor Area Transit.
2. Is inconsequential
3. Wikipedia is probably right given the climate of Maine.
4. The BAT line serves several Malls and Shopping Centers you have to
go and check each one to see and count how many Wal-Marts are there.
For now I would say Wiki is accurate.
5. You are right strictly speaking, but it could be argued that Wiki
was taking into account
the establishments before the 1883 opening of the present one.
6. Is not even worth mentioning. Spell check could be an ironic
culprit.
7. Is truly a clear factual error on Wiki's part.
8. is vague and it depends on how you measure. Non-Wiki source
conflict.
9. Conflicts between sources, but I find the last link I posted in 9 is
the most reliable
and therefore I give you that one.
10. Could be a matter of semantics and jurisdiction and may not be of
real difference.
11. No date at all was mentioned about construction in the present
article
or in recent past versions of articles. This is your mistake.
12. Another clear win for you and a clear unambiguous error on wiki's
part
So what do we have. Yes, Wiki does contain errors, but in my research
in checking up on your and Wiki's facts, a lot of non wiki sights have
errors as well or at least conflict with other none wiki sites. But
there is one thing that those sights don't have. I and others can
correct Wiki, as I will do. Look for "Hunter2005" in the history, that
will be me.
And you were totally wrong in at least two questions, so someone going
to you for some information about your own home town (presumably), you
would had been a bad source on some questions. :-)
--->Hunter
Hunter
By no means I am saying that. I am a contributor to Wiki myself
(particularly the BMX and related Wikis like sanctioning bodies and BMX
stars) and I have made factual errors and had them corrected by other
contributors and editors as I have corrected others, but that is the
strength of Wiki, not a weakness. What I disagreed with is that Wiki is
an inferior sight and is less reliable than others. I say it is more
reliable because it can be corrected. Of course you will have to back
up your corrections or it could be reverted which is the term for going
back to the previous version but again that is a strength. It makes you
back up what you say.
All sites will have errors. I think Wikipedia will have less depending
on the traffic of that particular article. And yes, I always try to
cite two sites when relating a "fact" Wiki or not. It is just like in
the year I have used it, Wiki hasn't steered me wrong yet.
---->Hunter
Ryan Robbins
>> (1) Wikipedia implies that "BAT" stands for "Bangor Area Transit." "BAT"
>> doesn't stand for anything. There is no "Bangor Area Transit" entity.
> ----
> You sure about that about "The Pine Tree State? Click on each non
> Wikipedia
> link and scroll down a bit on both pages:
>
> http://www.exploremaine.org/bus/fixedroute.html
Not an official site. That page then links to the BAT page, where you will
not find "Bangor Area Transit" anywhere.
> www.mcbvi.org/resource/Transportation.htm
Not an official site.
>> (2) Wikipedia says there are 15 buses in the fleet. There are 16,
>> according
>> to the city.
> ----
> Oh come on now. Compared to YOUR above mistake this is almost
> meaningless.
>
> And here is another source that says 15 and not 16:
>
> http://www.economicexpert.com/a/Bangor:Area:Transit.htm
>
> The last time the wiki page for BAT was updated was July 15, 2005.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bangor_Area_Transit&action=history
>
> Perhaps the City added a bus since then?
>>
>> (3) Wikipedia says that air conditioning is seldom needed in this area.
> ----
> Probably isn't given the climate. According to..
>
> http://bangorinfo.com/Special/bangor_temps.html
Those temperatures are averages. Come here in June, July, and August and I
bet you'll want air conditioning in your vehicle. I just had my air
conditioning on in my car Friday, and I use it just about every day from
mid-June through early September.
> The average temp in June, July and August is 63.9, 69.2 and 67.7
> Fahrenheit respectively
Take a look at the highs. You also failed to read the text.
>> (4) Wikipedia says the bus system serves several Wal-Marts. It serves
>> only
>> two.
> ----
> Economic Expert.com say it serves *several* Wal-marts and the line
> connects
> *several* malls. Quote:
>
> "The BAT system is structured to make it easy for riders to reach
> points
> of interest in the Bangor area and serves several Wal-Marts,
> the Bangor Mall, several other shopping centers, and Husson College.
> In 2004, the Mall Hopper line was added to facilitate easy connections
> between the Airport Mall, the Bangor Mall, and the Broadway Shopping
> Center.
> The Mall Hopper is also the first line not to go through the Bangor
> Depot."
>
> http://www.economicexpert.com/a/Bangor:Area:Transit.htm
>
> There are probably "several" Wal-Marts at all those shopping centers.
Are you trying to tell me I don't know squat about my city? I have been
living here since 1984 and within 33 miles of this place since 1978. The
Bangor area has only two Wal-Marts: one in Bangor and the other in Brewer.
The next closest one is in Palmyra, more than 20 miles away. The city bus
does not go anywhere near Palmyra. The largest stores at the Broadway
Shopping Center are Hannaford and T.J. Maxx 'n More. The largest stores at
the Airport Mall are Hannaford, Staples, Dollar Tree, and Marshalls.
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangor%2C_Maine
>>
>> (5) Wikipedia says the Bangor Public Library was founded in 1830. It was
>> founded in 1883.
> ----
> The 1830 date reaches back when the "library" was "seven books in a
> footlocker:
>
> http://www.bpl.lib.me.us/
If you had comprehended what you read further, you would know that those
seven books belonged to the Bangor Mechanic Association, which later
dissolved.
>> (6) The Penobscot Theatre Company's name is misspelled as "Theater."
> ----
> This is any even sillier complaint than the missing bus. That was
> either a
> typo or perhaps the writer(s) of the article was using American
> spelling
> unconsciously and reflexively. Or perhaps the author of the article was
> using a
> spell checker that used American spelling. I just used mine and it
> caught the same
> "mistake" and wanted to "correct" the classic British spelling with the
> American one.
It doesn't matter what the article writer's excuse is. The name is Penobscot
Theatre Company.
>> (8) Wikipedia says the Bangor Daily News has the largest circulation of
>> newspapers in Maine. The Portland Press Herald/Maine Sunday Telegram has
>> the
>> largest circulation.
> ----
> The largest *daily* News paper it qualifies.
>
> Stats for the Portland Press Herald/Maine Sunday Telegram:
>
> The weekday circulation is 76,000 Sunday is 127,000
>
> "Daily circulation is in the five Southern Maine counties; Sunday
> circulation is statewide."
>
> Sunday circulation is statewide for the PPH/MST.
>
> http://www.asne.org/index.cfm?ID=37
>
> Here is a site for the BDM circulation data:
>
> http://w3.nexis.com/sources/scripts/info.pl?144564
>
> The BDN is published only six days a week It has a *Daily*
> circulation of 200,000 plus a further 230,000 on Saturday
>
> It seems that the PPH/MST has a weekday circulation of 76,000
> compared to 200,000 for the BDN. Sunday for the PPH/MST is 127,000
> compared to 230,000 for the "Maine Weekend".
The Bangor Daily's circulation isn't even 80,000. The weekday circulation is
about 63,000 and the weekend circulation is about 73,000. The Portland Press
Herald's weekday circulation is 76,000. The Maine Sunday Telegram's
circulation is 127,000.
>> (9) Wikipedia implies that the Bangor Blue Ox played four seasons: 1995,
>> 1996, 1997, and 1998. The team played in 1996 and 1997.
> -----
> According to GoBlackbears.com:
>
> "Mahaney Diamond previously served as the home field of the
> Bangor Blue Ox, a member of the Northeast Independent League from 1996
> to 1997."
>
> http://goblackbears.cstv.com/facilities/main-mahaney.html
>
> It could be read as the stadium serving as the home field for two
> years, not the team being
> in the league for only two years.
The Blue Ox played only two years in the Bangor market, 1996 and 1997. They
played both seasons at Mahaney Diamond.
>> (10) Wikipedia says that Mansfield Stadium and the Beth Pancoe Pool are
>> adjacent to Hayford Park. They are actually in Hayford Park.
> -----
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_King
>
> http://www.digitalballparks.com/Amateur/StevenKing_640_5.html
>
> http://members.dialmaine.com/rlee/Directions%20To%20The%202002%20Senior%20League%20World%20Series.html
>
> "Adjacent" and "in" in this context is a minor difference (the stadium
> has a specific street address with the entrance on the street), but
> more important admittedly than the number of buses. I will correct it
> and other errors when I get a chance.
"Adjacent" means next to, not in. The stadium needs an address for mail
delivery.
>> (11) Wikipedia says Mansfield Stadium (referred to only as "a Little
>> League
>> stadium") opened in 2002. It opened in 1992.
> -----
> You are clearly wrong and Wiki doesn't mention any date for the
> stadium's
> construction and does not refer to it as just a Little league park.
> this is
> what is said about it with the context intact:
Excuse me while I giggle my ass off..........
Wikipedia says in the article I referred to earlier: "In 2002, a Little
League stadium opened in Bangor, Maine."
Mansfield Stadium opened in 1992. Mansfield Stadium is that "Little League
stadium."
I should know because, well, I live here, I umpire games there, and I'm the
information director for the Senior League World Series.
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangor_Auditorium
>>
>> (12) Wikipedia says the Bangor Auditorium was built in 1958. The
>> Auditorium
>> opened in 1955.
> ----
> According to "Bangor in Focus" you are totally right
I should hope so. I wrote the article and own the site.
> So lets put it all together: With Question....
>
> 1. You were clearly wrong. It does stand for Bangor Area Transit.
Nope. "BAT" stands for nothing. There is no entity called Bangor Area
Transit.
> 3. Wikipedia is probably right given the climate of Maine.
Nope. The article on the bus appears to have been written by a student from
the University of Maine from away, which means that student probably doesn't
ride the bus from the end of May through August.
> 4. The BAT line serves several Malls and Shopping Centers you have to
> go and check each one to see and count how many Wal-Marts are there.
Yeah, two. I live here.
> 5. You are right strictly speaking, but it could be argued that Wiki
> was taking into account
> the establishments before the 1883 opening of the present one.
Two different libraries.
> And you were totally wrong in at least two questions, so someone going
> to you for some information about your own home town (presumably), you
> would had been a bad source on some questions. :-)
I am totally right.
grapie
Ryan Robbins
news:1144029233.4...@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Should I get a ruler, boys?
There's no need to, considering that I'm sooooooo right on this one.
grapie
http://www.bangormaine.gov/index.php
This site is the official site for Bangor, Maine.
This is an official *government* site. Are you going to dispute *it*?
*puts the ruler away*
Hunter
> "Hunter" <buffh...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:1144012947.0...@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >> (1) Wikipedia implies that "BAT" stands for "Bangor Area Transit." "BAT"
> >> doesn't stand for anything. There is no "Bangor Area Transit" entity.
> > ----
> > You sure about that about "The Pine Tree State? Click on each non
> > Wikipedia
> > link and scroll down a bit on both pages:
> >
> > http://www.exploremaine.org/bus/fixedroute.html
>
> Not an official site. That page then links to the BAT page, where you will
> not find "Bangor Area Transit" anywhere.
See below.----
The point is gleaning information of the net and if Wiki is more or
less reliable than non Wiki sources. That was two non-wiki sources I
gave you. One was Maine.gov. And at the site you cite BAT is all
capitalized BAT suggesting that it is an acronym that came from
somewhere and it was link from the Maine.gov site. Check the goolgle
link search page. You will ignore the Wiki and Answers.com links of
course, but other sites have BAT for Bay Area Transit. Perhaps you will
care to enlighten me as how someone came up with BAT? Perhaps it is a
contraction of this: Bangor Area Comprehensive Transportation System
(BACTS)
www.fhwa.dot.gov/hep/tribaltrans/ttpcs/maine.htm
The official site doesn't mention this either.
Here are two other sites that uses Bagnor Area Transit:
http://www.emh.org/print_article.asp?print=yes&id=188
http://www.bikesontransit.org/view_entry.php?id=201
If Wiki is in error, it is a widely held one.
>
> >> (2) Wikipedia says there are 15 buses in the fleet. There are 16,
> >> according
> >> to the city.
> > ----
> > Oh come on now. Compared to YOUR above mistake this is almost
> > meaningless.
> >
> > And here is another source that says 15 and not 16:
> >
> > http://www.economicexpert.com/a/Bangor:Area:Transit.htm
> >
> > The last time the wiki page for BAT was updated was July 15, 2005.
> >
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bangor_Area_Transit&action=history
> >
> > Perhaps the City added a bus since then?
> >>
> >> (3) Wikipedia says that air conditioning is seldom needed in this area.
> > ----
> > Probably isn't given the climate. According to..
> >
> > http://bangorinfo.com/Special/bangor_temps.html
>
> Those temperatures are averages. Come here in June, July, and August and I
> bet you'll want air conditioning in your vehicle. I just had my air
> conditioning on in my car Friday, and I use it just about every day from
> mid-June through early September.
---
You had the AC on in your car last friday? according to this:
The high was 69 degrees Fahrenheit. You must have a low tolerance for
heat. :-)
>
> > The average temp in June, July and August is 63.9, 69.2 and 67.7
> > Fahrenheit respectively
>
> Take a look at the highs. You also failed to read the text.
----
You mean:
http://bangorinfo.com/climate.html
Yes, I concede from that description that you are correct. However, you
should try a good old New York City summer in July. Then you will learn
the need for air conditioning! I am not talking about a few days of 90+
heat either. Still, I would say that the BAT would use it AC less than
other cities south of it. Your idea of what is hot and my idea of what
is hot is very likely colored by where we live. In any case, I will
alter the wording on the Wiki site to reflect that. Still, the average
is around 70 degrees during the summer months. I would say a BAT buses
AC is taxed less than a NYC MTA (Metropolitan Transit Authority) buses
is-when it is working that is! :-)
----
Firstly, the argument is whether Wiki is accurate. You contend that it
isn't. I contend, as someone who would research the city on the net,
that it is. So far I have found several non-wiki sources that uses
"several" Now, you seem to be employed by the city in an official or
non official capacity. Fine, but that does not make you a researcher
"off the street" looking for info which is the subject of this
exercise. If several is wrong, Wikipedia is not the only one to make
that error, but as I said before, unlike the other sites, Wiki can be
corrected by those in the know. Incidentally, I am taking your word on
faith that you are really from Bangor, so I did not presume to say that
you don't know your city, but I am presuming that you are honest and
purporting that you are from where you say you are from. No offense
meant to be given, just reflecting the facts of the internet.
>
> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangor%2C_Maine
> >>
> >> (5) Wikipedia says the Bangor Public Library was founded in 1830. It was
> >> founded in 1883.
> > ----
> > The 1830 date reaches back when the "library" was "seven books in a
> > footlocker:
> >
> > http://www.bpl.lib.me.us/
>
> If you had comprehended what you read further, you would know that those
> seven books belonged to the Bangor Mechanic Association, which later
> dissolved.
----
Sure, my point it was a proto library, not *the* library, which is what
it was referring to. It is like the OSS (Office of Strategic Services)
being the precursor of the CIA (Central Intelligence Agency), but I
have since corrected it on the Wiki site and mentioned a bit of the
library origins.
>
> >> (6) The Penobscot Theatre Company's name is misspelled as "Theater."
> > ----
> > This is any even sillier complaint than the missing bus. That was
> > either a
> > typo or perhaps the writer(s) of the article was using American
> > spelling
> > unconsciously and reflexively. Or perhaps the author of the article was
> > using a
> > spell checker that used American spelling. I just used mine and it
> > caught the same
> > "mistake" and wanted to "correct" the classic British spelling with the
> > American one.
>
> It doesn't matter what the article writer's excuse is. The name is Penobscot
> Theatre Company.
----
Now I know you are being deliberately obtuse if you are going to be
picky about a spelling error. Again, I have corrected it on the Wiki
site.
>
> >> (8) Wikipedia says the Bangor Daily News has the largest circulation of
> >> newspapers in Maine. The Portland Press Herald/Maine Sunday Telegram has
> >> the
> >> largest circulation.
> > ----
> > The largest *daily* News paper it qualifies.
> >
> > Stats for the Portland Press Herald/Maine Sunday Telegram:
> >
> > The weekday circulation is 76,000 Sunday is 127,000
> >
> > "Daily circulation is in the five Southern Maine counties; Sunday
> > circulation is statewide."
> >
> > Sunday circulation is statewide for the PPH/MST.
> >
> > http://www.asne.org/index.cfm?ID=37
> >
> > Here is a site for the BDM circulation data:
> >
> > http://w3.nexis.com/sources/scripts/info.pl?144564
> >
> > The BDN is published only six days a week It has a *Daily*
> > circulation of 200,000 plus a further 230,000 on Saturday
> >
> > It seems that the PPH/MST has a weekday circulation of 76,000
> > compared to 200,000 for the BDN. Sunday for the PPH/MST is 127,000
> > compared to 230,000 for the "Maine Weekend".
>
> The Bangor Daily's circulation isn't even 80,000. The weekday circulation is
> about 63,000 and the weekend circulation is about 73,000. The Portland Press
> Herald's weekday circulation is 76,000. The Maine Sunday Telegram's
> circulation is 127,000.
----
Cite source. At least I cite my sources. So you are saying Lexis/Nexis
is wrong? Show were you where you got your stats. If you are right,
once again, a non-wiki site which a researcher may rely on is in error.
Please tell me were you get your figures and I will incorporate them on
the Wiki site.
>
> >> (9) Wikipedia implies that the Bangor Blue Ox played four seasons: 1995,
> >> 1996, 1997, and 1998. The team played in 1996 and 1997.
> > -----
> > According to GoBlackbears.com:
> >
> > "Mahaney Diamond previously served as the home field of the
> > Bangor Blue Ox, a member of the Northeast Independent League from 1996
> > to 1997."
> >
> > http://goblackbears.cstv.com/facilities/main-mahaney.html
> >
> > It could be read as the stadium serving as the home field for two
> > years, not the team being
> > in the league for only two years.
>
> The Blue Ox played only two years in the Bangor market, 1996 and 1997. They
> played both seasons at Mahaney Diamond.
---
And I concede Wiki's error on this point and have corrected it on its
Bangor, Maine page.
>
> >> (10) Wikipedia says that Mansfield Stadium and the Beth Pancoe Pool are
> >> adjacent to Hayford Park. They are actually in Hayford Park.
> > -----
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_King
> >
> > http://www.digitalballparks.com/Amateur/StevenKing_640_5.html
> >
> > http://members.dialmaine.com/rlee/Directions%20To%20The%202002%20Senior%20League%20World%20Series.html
> >
> > "Adjacent" and "in" in this context is a minor difference (the stadium
> > has a specific street address with the entrance on the street), but
> > more important admittedly than the number of buses. I will correct it
> > and other errors when I get a chance.
>
> "Adjacent" means next to, not in. The stadium needs an address for mail
> delivery.
----
Still minor but I will correct it.
>
> >> (11) Wikipedia says Mansfield Stadium (referred to only as "a Little
> >> League
> >> stadium") opened in 2002. It opened in 1992.
> > -----
> > You are clearly wrong and Wiki doesn't mention any date for the
> > stadium's
> > construction and does not refer to it as just a Little league park.
> > this is
> > what is said about it with the context intact:
>
> Excuse me while I giggle my ass off..........
>
> Wikipedia says in the article I referred to earlier: "In 2002, a Little
> League stadium opened in Bangor, Maine."
----
When you cite a quote, please put the link of where that quoute is in.
That quote is not on the Bangor, Maine wike page but on the Stephen
King page.
>
> Mansfield Stadium opened in 1992. Mansfield Stadium is that "Little League
> stadium."
>
> I should know because, well, I live here, I umpire games there, and I'm the
> information director for the Senior League World Series.
----
I found it on the Stephen king wikisite please in the future cite the
page that quote is from. At any rate, it was not on the Bangor, Maine
page, but I have corrected it.
>
> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangor_Auditorium
> >>
> >> (12) Wikipedia says the Bangor Auditorium was built in 1958. The
> >> Auditorium
> >> opened in 1955.
> > ----
> > According to "Bangor in Focus" you are totally right
>
> I should hope so. I wrote the article and own the site.
----
Ironically, Wiki has a link to your site. I did not put it there just
now, if has been there at least a year (check the article history). I
did just add the direct link to the BAT site. Check "External Links"
and click on "City of Bangor":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangor%2C_Maine#External_links
>
> > So lets put it all together: With Question....
> >
> > 1. You were clearly wrong. It does stand for Bangor Area Transit.
>
> Nope. "BAT" stands for nothing. There is no entity called Bangor Area
> Transit.
----
But it is treated as an acronym and many sites use it as such. If it
truly stands for nothing then it is misleading. BART for example is Bay
Area Rapid Transit. If it was a pet name they would had use Bart. I
suggest your website use "Bat" instead of "BAT".
>
> > 3. Wikipedia is probably right given the climate of Maine.
>
> Nope. The article on the bus appears to have been written by a student from
> the University of Maine from away, which means that student probably doesn't
> ride the bus from the end of May through August.
----
That is possible. Given that so far that and the number of buses given
are your only two criticisms He/she/they did a good job. Any other
thing wrong with the facts given at that site? Again Ironically, they
external linked to your site. And that is another strength of Wiki. It
does cite other sources, not just itself.
>
> > 4. The BAT line serves several Malls and Shopping Centers you have to
> > go and check each one to see and count how many Wal-Marts are there.
>
> Yeah, two. I live here.
----
Then I will correct it from "several" to two.
>
> > 5. You are right strictly speaking, but it could be argued that Wiki
> > was taking into account
> > the establishments before the 1883 opening of the present one.
>
> Two different libraries.
-----
One was a precursor of the other.
>
> > And you were totally wrong in at least two questions, so someone going
> > to you for some information about your own home town (presumably), you
> > would had been a bad source on some questions. :-)
>
> I am totally right.
----
I am assuming that you chose the data that were most obviously wrong
one being a spelling error and another being the number of buses, in
that light, given the amount of data the Bangor, Maine Wiki site gives,
that is pretty good. And I have corrected most of them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangor%2C_Maine
Are there other errors on the Bangor, Maine page or any where else in
Wiki? You can contribute by correcting them.
Errors in demographics or events or geography?
How about the Bangor Civic Center? Any errors in fact?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangor_Civic_Center
Again, would Wiki have errors? Yes. Is it more reliable in a given
subject than most "fixed" i.e. unchangeable, sites? I would say so. And
again, Wiki does not just quote itself. It links to other sites to back
up what it says, including on the Wiki site, a link to your site. :-)
If you see anything else that is wrong with the Bangor, Maine wiki
site, sign up and correct it.
---->Hunter
Ryan Robbins
OK, you've crossed into moron territory. I live in Bangor. I know what "Bat"
doesn't mean.
From the April 22, 2005, Bangor Daily News: "BACTS officials, not wanting to
tie the regional system to any one community, insist that 'Bat' doesn't
stand for anything in particular, although riders were likely to infer
several meanings, such as Bangor Area Transit or Transportation or the
like."
Don't be so foolish as to claim that this is an error.
> Here are two other sites that uses Bagnor Area Transit:
> http://www.emh.org/print_article.asp?print=yes&id=188
>
> http://www.bikesontransit.org/view_entry.php?id=201
These sites are also mistaken.
>> >> (3) Wikipedia says that air conditioning is seldom needed in this
>> >> area.
>> > ----
>> > Probably isn't given the climate. According to..
>> >
>> > http://bangorinfo.com/Special/bangor_temps.html
>>
>> Those temperatures are averages. Come here in June, July, and August and
>> I
>> bet you'll want air conditioning in your vehicle. I just had my air
>> conditioning on in my car Friday, and I use it just about every day from
>> mid-June through early September.
> ---
> You had the AC on in your car last friday? according to this:
>
> http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KBGR/2006/3/31/DailyHistory.html?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA
>
> The high was 69 degrees Fahrenheit. You must have a low tolerance for
> heat. :-)
We are talking about driving around in motor vehicles, you know. Sunlight
through glass, small, enclosed area...
>Still, I would say that the BAT would use it AC less than
> other cities south of it.
The key word was "seldom." Using air conditioning three months out of the
year is not "seldom."
>> > http://www.economicexpert.com/a/Bangor:Area:Transit.htm
>> >
>> > There are probably "several" Wal-Marts at all those shopping centers.
>>
>> Are you trying to tell me I don't know squat about my city? I have been
>> living here since 1984 and within 33 miles of this place since 1978. The
>> Bangor area has only two Wal-Marts: one in Bangor and the other in
>> Brewer.
>> The next closest one is in Palmyra, more than 20 miles away. The city bus
>> does not go anywhere near Palmyra. The largest stores at the Broadway
>> Shopping Center are Hannaford and T.J. Maxx 'n More. The largest stores
>> at
>> the Airport Mall are Hannaford, Staples, Dollar Tree, and Marshalls.
> ----
> Firstly, the argument is whether Wiki is accurate.
Which it is not.
>So far I have found several non-wiki sources that uses
> "several"
Note that economicexpert.com uses the exact words on Wikipedia.
Now, you seem to be employed by the city in an official or
> non official capacity. Fine, but that does not make you a researcher
> "off the street" looking for info which is the subject of this
> exercise.
This is precisely why Wikipedia is not a reliable source of information.
Researchers off the street should not be writing about things they know
little of.
The source? Why not ask the Bangor Daily News. I do occasional work for the
paper.
>> >> (11) Wikipedia says Mansfield Stadium (referred to only as "a Little
>> >> League
>> >> stadium") opened in 2002. It opened in 1992.
>> > -----
>> > You are clearly wrong and Wiki doesn't mention any date for the
>> > stadium's
>> > construction and does not refer to it as just a Little league park.
>> > this is
>> > what is said about it with the context intact:
>>
>> Excuse me while I giggle my ass off..........
>>
>> Wikipedia says in the article I referred to earlier: "In 2002, a Little
>> League stadium opened in Bangor, Maine."
> ----
> When you cite a quote, please put the link of where that quoute is in.
> That quote is not on the Bangor, Maine wike page but on the Stephen
> King page.
See the original post from me on this subject.
>> Mansfield Stadium opened in 1992. Mansfield Stadium is that "Little
>> League
>> stadium."
>>
>> I should know because, well, I live here, I umpire games there, and I'm
>> the
>> information director for the Senior League World Series.
> ----
> I found it on the Stephen king wikisite please in the future cite the
> page that quote is from. At any rate, it was not on the Bangor, Maine
> page, but I have corrected it.
>> > 1. You were clearly wrong. It does stand for Bangor Area Transit.
>>
>> Nope. "BAT" stands for nothing. There is no entity called Bangor Area
>> Transit.
> ----
> But it is treated as an acronym and many sites use it as such. If it
> truly stands for nothing then it is misleading. BART for example is Bay
> Area Rapid Transit. If it was a pet name they would had use Bart. I
> suggest your website use "Bat" instead of "BAT".
I do use "Bat," not "BAT."
>> > And you were totally wrong in at least two questions, so someone going
>> > to you for some information about your own home town (presumably), you
>> > would had been a bad source on some questions. :-)
>>
>> I am totally right.
> ----
> I am assuming that you chose the data that were most obviously wrong
> one being a spelling error and another being the number of buses, in
> that light, given the amount of data the Bangor, Maine Wiki site gives,
> that is pretty good.
"Pretty good"? It's horrible because the information is easily available.
Michael Wojcik
In article <1144049919....@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "grapie" <beachin...@gmail.com> writes:
> Actually...
>
> http://www.bangormaine.gov/index.php
>
> This site is the official site for Bangor, Maine.
> This is an official *government* site. Are you going to dispute *it*?
Believing that unofficial government publications - particularly
online ones, which are often produced ad hoc, by untrained staffers,
with minimal budget, on the grounds that they're easy to fix later -
are authoritive is just as fallacious as believing that Wikipedia is
authoritive.
Governments produce *official* publications which *are* authoritive.
That's part of their function, and that's where they'll devote their
resources. Unofficial ones aren't intended to be, and will contain
errors.
And even official publications are subject to interpretation, of
course, and so come under dispute.
--
Michael Wojcik michael...@microfocus.com
Robert, you are so wrong, philosophers weep at the sound of your voice.
-- Darby Conley
Hunter
First, you should had cited this in the beginning, although I just
conducted a search of the BDM archives and found no article that
matches the text above.
I used "doesn't stand for anything in particular" as the search
criterion. However, for now I take your word for it. No need to insult
btw. I don't know you nor accept at face value what you say on your say
so. And how did BAT come about? Perhaps you should add that to your
site to dispel misconceptions.
>
> > Here are two other sites that uses Bagnor Area Transit:
> > http://www.emh.org/print_article.asp?print=yes&id=188
> >
> > http://www.bikesontransit.org/view_entry.php?id=201
>
> These sites are also mistaken.
----
Which in part is my point. They can't be corrected unless you contact
the owner directly which could take time. One has to wonder why so many
are mistaken about this factoid.
>
> >> >> (3) Wikipedia says that air conditioning is seldom needed in this
> >> >> area.
> >> > ----
> >> > Probably isn't given the climate. According to..
> >> >
> >> > http://bangorinfo.com/Special/bangor_temps.html
> >>
> >> Those temperatures are averages. Come here in June, July, and August and
> >> I
> >> bet you'll want air conditioning in your vehicle. I just had my air
> >> conditioning on in my car Friday, and I use it just about every day from
> >> mid-June through early September.
> > ---
> > You had the AC on in your car last friday? according to this:
> >
> > http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KBGR/2006/3/31/DailyHistory.html?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA
> >
> > The high was 69 degrees Fahrenheit. You must have a low tolerance for
> > heat. :-)
>
> We are talking about driving around in motor vehicles, you know. Sunlight
> through glass, small, enclosed area...
----
What do you drive, a 1975 AMC Pacer or something? 69F outside high temp
for the day-which is the lowest accepted degree to be considered room
temperature-and you need air conditioning in a car? You are in the
shade most of the time in most cars. I see now what standard for AC use
you are using. I am telling you, stay out of New York City from mid
July to mid August or you will melt! Ironically last summer was
unusually cool for NYC, but I am not holding my breath for this summer
to be just as pleasant! :-)
>
> >Still, I would say that the BAT would use it AC less than
> > other cities south of it.
>
> The key word was "seldom." Using air conditioning three months out of the
> year is not "seldom."
----
Bangor summers being cooler relative to other cities, with their higher
mean temperatures and humidity with greater occurrences of 80+ plus
temperatures, yes.
>
> >> > http://www.economicexpert.com/a/Bangor:Area:Transit.htm
> >> >
> >> > There are probably "several" Wal-Marts at all those shopping centers.
> >>
> >> Are you trying to tell me I don't know squat about my city? I have been
> >> living here since 1984 and within 33 miles of this place since 1978. The
> >> Bangor area has only two Wal-Marts: one in Bangor and the other in
> >> Brewer.
> >> The next closest one is in Palmyra, more than 20 miles away. The city bus
> >> does not go anywhere near Palmyra. The largest stores at the Broadway
> >> Shopping Center are Hannaford and T.J. Maxx 'n More. The largest stores
> >> at
> >> the Airport Mall are Hannaford, Staples, Dollar Tree, and Marshalls.
> > ----
> > Firstly, the argument is whether Wiki is accurate.
>
> Which it is not.
----
It is given the relatively few mistakes you have pointed out given the
information it gave for the Bangor, Maine article. Again, anything else
inaccurate on that page of significance?
>
> >So far I have found several non-wiki sources that uses
> > "several"
>
> Note that economicexpert.com uses the exact words on Wikipedia.
----
The original article writer probably used it as a source. A little bit
of laziness on the contributor's part.
>
> > Now, you seem to be employed by the city in an official or
> > non official capacity. Fine, but that does not make you a researcher
> > "off the street" looking for info which is the subject of this
> > exercise.
>
> This is precisely why Wikipedia is not a reliable source of information.
> Researchers off the street should not be writing about things they know
> little of.
----
And there are a lot of writers who are not off the street and are
actively in the profession or area they are writing about. As I said
before, if you publish a "fact" you will be called on it by someone who
knows better. And also, as I said before outside links are provided
for, including the sites you worked on. Half of the original mistakes
you point out were in regard to tiny spelling errors and the number of
buses in the fleet and the number of Wal-Marts. The most significant
errors were when establishments were built or started, most of which I
have corrected. For someone off the street the BAT and Bangor, Maine
articles are pretty damn accurate. Anything about the demographics or
anything else that was in error? Was the bus routes described
inaccurate or are the number of Wal Marts and busses and the frequency
of AC use in the buses the only ones you found? If so, that is good,
especially if you consider that only one person basically, Jalnet2
wrote it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bangor_Area_Transit&action=history
And it has gotten better since then and your indirect input has made it
even better.
----
I intend to. If you are correct, I will change the data in the article.
>
> >> >> (11) Wikipedia says Mansfield Stadium (referred to only as "a Little
> >> >> League
> >> >> stadium") opened in 2002. It opened in 1992.
> >> > -----
> >> > You are clearly wrong and Wiki doesn't mention any date for the
> >> > stadium's
> >> > construction and does not refer to it as just a Little league park.
> >> > this is
> >> > what is said about it with the context intact:
> >>
> >> Excuse me while I giggle my ass off..........
> >>
> >> Wikipedia says in the article I referred to earlier: "In 2002, a Little
> >> League stadium opened in Bangor, Maine."
> > ----
> > When you cite a quote, please put the link of where that quoute is in.
> > That quote is not on the Bangor, Maine wike page but on the Stephen
> > King page.
>
> See the original post from me on this subject.
---
I did and I forgot about it but found it again. I have since change the
Stephen king site to reflect the new data. In fact I will go back and
add the name of the stadium as well.
>
> >> Mansfield Stadium opened in 1992. Mansfield Stadium is that "Little
> >> League
> >> stadium."
> >>
> >> I should know because, well, I live here, I umpire games there, and I'm
> >> the
> >> information director for the Senior League World Series.
> > ----
> > I found it on the Stephen king wikisite please in the future cite the
> > page that quote is from. At any rate, it was not on the Bangor, Maine
> > page, but I have corrected it.
>
> >> > 1. You were clearly wrong. It does stand for Bangor Area Transit.
> >>
> >> Nope. "BAT" stands for nothing. There is no entity called Bangor Area
> >> Transit.
> > ----
> > But it is treated as an acronym and many sites use it as such. If it
> > truly stands for nothing then it is misleading. BART for example is Bay
> > Area Rapid Transit. If it was a pet name they would had use Bart. I
> > suggest your website use "Bat" instead of "BAT".
>
> I do use "Bat," not "BAT."
----
Not according to the site:
http://www.bgrme.org/cs_publictransit.php/
With the exception of the link "All about The Bat" and the e-mail
adress b...@bgrme.org , all the instances of "Bat" I see are capitalized
"BAT" (Community Connector), implying an acronym. If you want to
discorage people from thinking "BAT" stands for something, then say so
on your site and use "Bat".
>
> >> > And you were totally wrong in at least two questions, so someone going
> >> > to you for some information about your own home town (presumably), you
> >> > would had been a bad source on some questions. :-)
> >>
> >> I am totally right.
> > ----
> > I am assuming that you chose the data that were most obviously wrong
> > one being a spelling error and another being the number of buses, in
> > that light, given the amount of data the Bangor, Maine Wiki site gives,
> > that is pretty good.
>
> "Pretty good"? It's horrible because the information is easily available.
---
Horrible? half of the mistakes you sited were minor like spell checks
and the number of Wal-Marts. I ask again, what other substantive errors
can you find on that site? How about demographics? How about
geographical data? How about the name origin of whistling a hymn?
Just look at the history:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bangor%2C_Maine&action=history
Considering the low number of errors you cited in an article that was
started on October 20, 2002 and modifed by several others since (I am
the latest, again I am "Hunter2005") I think it is impressive. Some
people provided photos. I wouldn't be surprised in the least that most
of them or Bangor, Maine residents. Hayford Pierce is. This discussion
of ours has made it even better.
I added or discussion to the discussion page of Wiki Bangor, Maine
site:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Bangor%2C_Maine
The two people who posted there are either a former or current resident
of Bangor.
Next time be a little more upfront in what position you hold when you
discuss a subject You should had said that you ran the official site
and did work at the paper and also provide links. I am sorry you got
offended about me thinking you don't know your own city, but I don't
know you and I can't verify what you say about yourself (although I did
find a R.R Robins at Kenduskeag Ave.) I am not going to accept what you
or anyone else say at face value.
Take this as a measure of what you would encounter if you become a
contributor to Wiki on a controversial issue. :-)
Oh, and I did verify the number of Wal marts The Bat serves:
Next time provide evidence like that.
---->Hunter
Ryan Robbins
> Ryan Robbins wrote:
>>
>> From the April 22, 2005, Bangor Daily News: "BACTS officials, not wanting
>> to
>> tie the regional system to any one community, insist that 'Bat' doesn't
>> stand for anything in particular, although riders were likely to infer
>> several meanings, such as Bangor Area Transit or Transportation or the
>> like."
>>
>> Don't be so foolish as to claim that this is an error.
> ---
> First, you should had cited this in the beginning, although I just
> conducted a search of the BDM archives and found no article that
> matches the text above.
I didn't need to cite it because I live here in Bangor. I am the source.
> http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/bangor/results.html?num=25&st=basic&QryTxt=doesn%27t+stand+for+anything+in+particular&sortby=REVERSE_CHRON&datetype=7
>
> I used "doesn't stand for anything in particular" as the search
> criterion. However, for now I take your word for it. No need to insult
> btw. I don't know you nor accept at face value what you say on your say
> so. And how did BAT come about? Perhaps you should add that to your
> site to dispel misconceptions.
My mistake on the year in the date. I should have written "2002."
>> > Here are two other sites that uses Bagnor Area Transit:
>> > http://www.emh.org/print_article.asp?print=yes&id=188
>> >
>> > http://www.bikesontransit.org/view_entry.php?id=201
>>
>> These sites are also mistaken.
> ----
> Which in part is my point. They can't be corrected unless you contact
> the owner directly which could take time. One has to wonder why so many
> are mistaken about this factoid.
Because they're ignorant and assume that's what "Bat" stands for. I have
enough worries as it is with my work; I can't be tracking down other Web
sites to check their accuracy.
>> > You had the AC on in your car last friday? according to this:
>> >
>> > http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KBGR/2006/3/31/DailyHistory.html?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA
>> >
>> > The high was 69 degrees Fahrenheit. You must have a low tolerance for
>> > heat. :-)
>>
>> We are talking about driving around in motor vehicles, you know. Sunlight
>> through glass, small, enclosed area...
> ----
> What do you drive, a 1975 AMC Pacer or something? 69F outside high temp
> for the day-which is the lowest accepted degree to be considered room
> temperature-and you need air conditioning in a car?
Sixty-nine degrees OUTSIDE temperature. Think about that. I'm not using air
conditioning to cool the outside air...
> You are in the
> shade most of the time in most cars.
We don't have traffic tunnels in Maine. I don't park in a garage. And my car
gets an almost direct hit from the sun from about an hour after sunrise
until about 3 p.m.
>> >Still, I would say that the BAT would use it AC less than
>> > other cities south of it.
>>
>> The key word was "seldom." Using air conditioning three months out of the
>> year is not "seldom."
> ----
> Bangor summers being cooler relative to other cities, with their higher
> mean temperatures and humidity with greater occurrences of 80+ plus
> temperatures, yes.
"Seldom" isn't comparative.
>> >> > http://www.economicexpert.com/a/Bangor:Area:Transit.htm
>> >> >
>> >> > There are probably "several" Wal-Marts at all those shopping
>> >> > centers.
>> >>
>> >> Are you trying to tell me I don't know squat about my city? I have
>> >> been
>> >> living here since 1984 and within 33 miles of this place since 1978.
>> >> The
>> >> Bangor area has only two Wal-Marts: one in Bangor and the other in
>> >> Brewer.
>> >> The next closest one is in Palmyra, more than 20 miles away. The city
>> >> bus
>> >> does not go anywhere near Palmyra. The largest stores at the Broadway
>> >> Shopping Center are Hannaford and T.J. Maxx 'n More. The largest
>> >> stores
>> >> at
>> >> the Airport Mall are Hannaford, Staples, Dollar Tree, and Marshalls.
>> > ----
>> > Firstly, the argument is whether Wiki is accurate.
>>
>> Which it is not.
> ----
> It is given the relatively few mistakes you have pointed out given the
> information it gave for the Bangor, Maine article. Again, anything else
> inaccurate on that page of significance?
Your standards are much, much too low. Those mistakes were blatant. No
effort was made by the authors of those articles to verify the information.
>> >So far I have found several non-wiki sources that uses
>> > "several"
>>
>> Note that economicexpert.com uses the exact words on Wikipedia.
> ----
> The original article writer probably used it as a source. A little bit
> of laziness on the contributor's part.
Which is why Wikipedia's credibility is low.
>> > Now, you seem to be employed by the city in an official or
>> > non official capacity. Fine, but that does not make you a researcher
>> > "off the street" looking for info which is the subject of this
>> > exercise.
>>
>> This is precisely why Wikipedia is not a reliable source of information.
>> Researchers off the street should not be writing about things they know
>> little of.
> ----
> And there are a lot of writers who are not off the street and are
> actively in the profession or area they are writing about. As I said
> before, if you publish a "fact" you will be called on it by someone who
> knows better. And also, as I said before outside links are provided
> for, including the sites you worked on. Half of the original mistakes
> you point out were in regard to tiny spelling errors and the number of
> buses in the fleet and the number of Wal-Marts. The most significant
> errors were when establishments were built or started, most of which I
> have corrected. For someone off the street the BAT and Bangor, Maine
> articles are pretty damn accurate.
They would be mistaken. Hell, the same people probably think we entered the
21st century on Jan. 1, 2000. The same people probably can't tell you what
the First Amendment protects. Or who the U.S. secretary of state is, or what
the Electoral College is, etc.
> And it has gotten better since then and your indirect input has made it
> even better.
Wikipedia is a great concept. But in reality, it is not reliable for the
very reason that it's a great concept.
>> > ----
>> > Cite source. At least I cite my sources. So you are saying Lexis/Nexis
>> > is wrong? Show were you where you got your stats. If you are right,
>> > once again, a non-wiki site which a researcher may rely on is in error.
>> > Please tell me were you get your figures and I will incorporate them on
>> > the Wiki site.
>>
>> The source? Why not ask the Bangor Daily News. I do occasional work for
>> the
>> paper.
> ----
> I intend to. If you are correct, I will change the data in the article.
By the way, I verified the information using old-fashioned Google.
>> > But it is treated as an acronym and many sites use it as such. If it
>> > truly stands for nothing then it is misleading. BART for example is Bay
>> > Area Rapid Transit. If it was a pet name they would had use Bart. I
>> > suggest your website use "Bat" instead of "BAT".
>>
>> I do use "Bat," not "BAT."
> ----
> Not according to the site:
>
> http://www.bgrme.org/cs_publictransit.php/
That's not my site. My site is bangorinfo.com.
>> "Pretty good"? It's horrible because the information is easily available.
> ---
> Horrible? half of the mistakes you sited were minor like spell checks
> and the number of Wal-Marts. I ask again, what other substantive errors
> can you find on that site? How about demographics? How about
> geographical data? How about the name origin of whistling a hymn?
One spelling mistake: "theater" instead of "theater." Everything else dealt
with years that were way off and the name of an entity that does not exist.
There's quite a difference between "several" and a couple.
A copy editor would never last long letting that many mistakes through in
every article.
>
> Just look at the history:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bangor%2C_Maine&action=history
>
> Considering the low number of errors you cited in an article that was
> started on October 20, 2002 and modifed by several others since (I am
> the latest, again I am "Hunter2005") I think it is impressive.
It's pathetic if you consider that it might actually had to have been
corrected that many times. Wikipedia is a rought draft. Good encyclopedias
aren't rough drafts.
> Next time be a little more upfront in what position you hold when you
> discuss a subject You should had said that you ran the official site
> and did work at the paper and also provide links.
This shows that you haven't been paying attention to anything. Nowhere do I
imply I run the official city site.
Hunter
> "Hunter" <buffh...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:1144114547.2...@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> > Ryan Robbins wrote:
> >>
> >> From the April 22, 2005, Bangor Daily News: "BACTS officials, not wanting
> >> to
> >> tie the regional system to any one community, insist that 'Bat' doesn't
> >> stand for anything in particular, although riders were likely to infer
> >> several meanings, such as Bangor Area Transit or Transportation or the
> >> like."
> >>
> >> Don't be so foolish as to claim that this is an error.
> > ---
> > First, you should had cited this in the beginning, although I just
> > conducted a search of the BDM archives and found no article that
> > matches the text above.
>
> I didn't need to cite it because I live here in Bangor. I am the source.
But I and others don't know that. How could we? Sorry if we just don't
take your word for it. Let me put it this way, If Stephen Hawking
wanted to edit the Wiki article dealing with Black Holes he will have
to cite some work even if it is by him, because we can't know who you
are for sure. I was born in New York City and lived here all my life. I
have lived in the Bronx since I was nine years old. If I say the Cross
Bronx Express way passes under Jerome Avenue in the Bronx, where I
live, or that the D subway line runs directly under Grand Concourse
also in the Bronx, I will have to cite a source if I am challenged by
someone. I won't take a "How dare he question me!" attitude. In a way
you are doing what you are accusing Wiki of doing: It is so because I
say so. That is one thing about Wiki: you can't have an ego and write
for it. Someone will challenge you eventually.
Incidental did you go back to the Bangor, Maine Wikisite and click on
"discussion?" Two of your fellow residents had a bit of a tiff of what
was accurate. That is what goes on in wiki every day.
I realize you have this image that you can walk in plop any old thing
in an article and walk out but there are some controls. If you
repeatedly vandalize a page you will be blocked temporarily and if you
persist, permanently. If someone has a better cite that overrules yours
but you keep reverting, that is turning back the article to your old
version, you can be blocked, and there is a limit as to how many times
you can revert to avoid "revert wars". It is not Totally open over
there. Yes, anyone can edit, but if you abuse the privilege and/or
repeatedly show you have nothing to contribute you will be blocked
eventually.
Here is a site that is constantly vandalized and therefore is
constantly blocked and only trusted proven Wikipedians are allowed to
edit:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler
>
> > http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/bangor/results.html?num=25&st=basic&QryTxt=doesn%27t+stand+for+anything+in+particular&sortby=REVERSE_CHRON&datetype=7
> >
> > I used "doesn't stand for anything in particular" as the search
> > criterion. However, for now I take your word for it. No need to insult
> > btw. I don't know you nor accept at face value what you say on your say
> > so. And how did BAT come about? Perhaps you should add that to your
> > site to dispel misconceptions.
>
> My mistake on the year in the date. I should have written "2002."
---
I found it: Bangor unveils new bus system image; [4 Edition]
JEFF TUTTLE, OF THE NEWS STAFF. Bangor Daily News. Bangor, Me.: Apr 25,
2002. pg. 2
I haven't read the article since I have to pay for it, but I found it
using parts of the previous quote you posted, so I know it is accurate
and so I will edit the site to reflect this new knowledge. I will write
something like this: While the BAT is colloquially known as the Bangor
Area Transit, "BAT" in fact does not mean that officially despite it
inferring an acronym by being in all capital letters. The managers of
the system did not want to identify it with any one city or town."
Then I would put a footnote next to it and place the source of this
information at the bottom of the page with the other footnotes and
attributions.
>
> >> > Here are two other sites that uses Bagnor Area Transit:
> >> > http://www.emh.org/print_article.asp?print=yes&id=188
> >> >
> >> > http://www.bikesontransit.org/view_entry.php?id=201
> >>
> >> These sites are also mistaken.
> > ----
> > Which in part is my point. They can't be corrected unless you contact
> > the owner directly which could take time. One has to wonder why so many
> > are mistaken about this factoid.
>
> Because they're ignorant and assume that's what "Bat" stands for. I have
> enough worries as it is with my work; I can't be tracking down other Web
> sites to check their accuracy.
----
But with Wikipedia, you can do that almost instantly, as I have done.
>
> >> > You had the AC on in your car last friday? according to this:
> >> >
> >> > http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KBGR/2006/3/31/DailyHistory.html?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA
> >> >
> >> > The high was 69 degrees Fahrenheit. You must have a low tolerance for
> >> > heat. :-)
> >>
> >> We are talking about driving around in motor vehicles, you know. Sunlight
> >> through glass, small, enclosed area...
> > ----
> > What do you drive, a 1975 AMC Pacer or something? 69F outside high temp
> > for the day-which is the lowest accepted degree to be considered room
> > temperature-and you need air conditioning in a car?
>
> Sixty-nine degrees OUTSIDE temperature. Think about that. I'm not using air
> conditioning to cool the outside air...
----
Sorry, it still sounds funny to me. How about just rolling down the
windows a bit? Nice spring day and all... :-) Still, it does reveal
that we are on two different wave lengths about using AC. Also, the
weather site said it was party cloudy and scattered clouds during the
afternoon. I wasn't there of course but not that much direct sun light
it sounds.
>
> > You are in the
> > shade most of the time in most cars.
>
> We don't have traffic tunnels in Maine. I don't park in a garage. And my car
> gets an almost direct hit from the sun from about an hour after sunrise
> until about 3 p.m.
----
Ah, that is a little more understandable. That is why I referenced the
Pacer, a lot of glass on that four wheeled greenhouse. Still, it should
cool off after 10 or so minutes.
>
> >> >Still, I would say that the BAT would use it AC less than
> >> > other cities south of it.
> >>
> >> The key word was "seldom." Using air conditioning three months out of the
> >> year is not "seldom."
> > ----
> > Bangor summers being cooler relative to other cities, with their higher
> > mean temperatures and humidity with greater occurrences of 80+ plus
> > temperatures, yes.
>
> "Seldom" isn't comparative.
----
Still on the minor side, but I have changed it to a more accurate
interpretation on the page.
-----
Actually my standards are pretty high as my loading you down with links
testify Yes, the articles depend on the quality of the writer, however,
the more people who contribute to an article, the higher the quality.
Some people do use their memories or read inaccurate sources. Errors
will occur and people like me will come along and correct them. At any
rate, they have been corrected. And I say again, what other mistakes
are there that you haven't listed given the amount of information
given?
>
> >> >So far I have found several non-wiki sources that uses
> >> > "several"
> >>
> >> Note that economicexpert.com uses the exact words on Wikipedia.
> > ----
> > The original article writer probably used it as a source. A little bit
> > of laziness on the contributor's part.
>
> Which is why Wikipedia's credibility is low.
----
Oh yes there are problems, and in fairness here are a few balanced
articles with both pro and anti Wiki sides (not a Wiki site) Let it not
be said that I only report good news about Wikipedia:
http://news.com.com/Growing+pains+for+Wikipedia/2100-1025_3-5981119.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4530930.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4840340.stm
http://news.com.com/2100-1025_3-6053754.html
>
> >> > Now, you seem to be employed by the city in an official or
> >> > non official capacity. Fine, but that does not make you a researcher
> >> > "off the street" looking for info which is the subject of this
> >> > exercise.
> >>
> >> This is precisely why Wikipedia is not a reliable source of information.
> >> Researchers off the street should not be writing about things they know
> >> little of.
> > ----
> > And there are a lot of writers who are not off the street and are
> > actively in the profession or area they are writing about. As I said
> > before, if you publish a "fact" you will be called on it by someone who
> > knows better. And also, as I said before outside links are provided
> > for, including the sites you worked on. Half of the original mistakes
> > you point out were in regard to tiny spelling errors and the number of
> > buses in the fleet and the number of Wal-Marts. The most significant
> > errors were when establishments were built or started, most of which I
> > have corrected. For someone off the street the BAT and Bangor, Maine
> > articles are pretty damn accurate.
>
> They would be mistaken. Hell, the same people probably think we entered the
> 21st century on Jan. 1, 2000. The same people probably can't tell you what
> the First Amendment protects. Or who the U.S. secretary of state is, or what
> the Electoral College is, etc.
----
And those who can will correct those mistakes and cite the sources of
the corrections. I admit that a colaberative effort has its drawbacks,
but it has it strengths as well.
>
> > And it has gotten better since then and your indirect input has made it
> > even better.
>
> Wikipedia is a great concept. But in reality, it is not reliable for the
> very reason that it's a great concept.
>
> >> > ----
> >> > Cite source. At least I cite my sources. So you are saying Lexis/Nexis
> >> > is wrong? Show were you where you got your stats. If you are right,
> >> > once again, a non-wiki site which a researcher may rely on is in error.
> >> > Please tell me were you get your figures and I will incorporate them on
> >> > the Wiki site.
> >>
> >> The source? Why not ask the Bangor Daily News. I do occasional work for
> >> the
> >> paper.
> > ----
> > I intend to. If you are correct, I will change the data in the article.
>
> By the way, I verified the information using old-fashioned Google.
---
Then why didn't you post the link? I googled as well and that is how I
came up with my data about the circulation of the BDM, most notably
Lexis/Nexis.
>
> >> > But it is treated as an acronym and many sites use it as such. If it
> >> > truly stands for nothing then it is misleading. BART for example is Bay
> >> > Area Rapid Transit. If it was a pet name they would had use Bart. I
> >> > suggest your website use "Bat" instead of "BAT".
> >>
> >> I do use "Bat," not "BAT."
> > ----
> > Not according to the site:
> >
> > http://www.bgrme.org/cs_publictransit.php/
>
> That's not my site. My site is bangorinfo.com.
----
I found it and you indeed do not have Bat in all capitals:
http://bangorinfo.com/transportation.html
Strange that the supposed official government site has it so So the
official site has something wrong
One thing though; I searched your site for bat and was directed here:
http://pub38.bravenet.com/search2/search.php
Then I clicked on the "Information about bat" link and got this:
http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/bat
It is one of your sponsored sites. Very Wiki-like. In fact it links to
an article taken from Wiki! :-D However, it is now the old version not
the one updated by me. :-D Unfortunately I cannot alter it. Oh the
irony!
Here is the new Wiki BAT site:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangor_Area_Transit
It reflects and have corrected all you grievances-except the number of
buses. :-)
>
> >> "Pretty good"? It's horrible because the information is easily available.
> > ---
> > Horrible? half of the mistakes you sited were minor like spell checks
> > and the number of Wal-Marts. I ask again, what other substantive errors
> > can you find on that site? How about demographics? How about
> > geographical data? How about the name origin of whistling a hymn?
>
> One spelling mistake: "theater" instead of "theater." Everything else dealt
> with years that were way off and the name of an entity that does not exist.
> There's quite a difference between "several" and a couple.
---
Still in the main (pun intended) it was an accurate article and there
seem to be no other mistakes and the ones that are there I have
corrected.
>
> A copy editor would never last long letting that many mistakes through in
> every article.
----
As I said there would be drawbacks in a collaborative effort, but those
mistakes become fewer and fewer as time goes by. Of course, it is also
dependent on the traffic and how many people will see it.
> >
> > Just look at the history:
> >
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bangor%2C_Maine&action=history
> >
> > Considering the low number of errors you cited in an article that was
> > started on October 20, 2002 and modifed by several others since (I am
> > the latest, again I am "Hunter2005") I think it is impressive.
>
> It's pathetic if you consider that it might actually had to have been
> corrected that many times. Wikipedia is a rought draft. Good encyclopedias
> aren't rough drafts.
----
That is because it is a constant work in progress. It is *never*
finished. And someone always comes along with new information. And it
has now gotten to the point with the articles you take issue with that
they are near perfect. You should see when a prominent person dies or
some major event happens the page is corrected by the minute. You
should had seen it with the 2005 New York City Transit Authority Strike
Wiki site. It was up within minutes of the strike being declared. God
the fighting over what is valid and what was not how things should be
worded what illustrations to use. There was lively, even insulting
discussions on the discussion page where debates on what is valid and
what is not occur. Many of my edits were taken out put back in, I
partitioned the powers that be-as I said there are people manning the
switches there-and had my edits put back in like that references to the
1966 strike was valid and they agreed or they denied certain wording of
a section I gave and they gave their opinions in both cases. It was
wonderful!
This is the first version of the site:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2005_New_York_City_transit_strike&oldid=32085841
This is the most recent:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_New_York_City_transit_strike
And it still being tweaked as recently as April 3:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2005_New_York_City_transit_strike&action=history
This is the strength of wiki, not a weakness as you see it.
If God forbid a major train wreck with tragic consequences would happen
in Bangor, Maine that site will be inundated with editors adding their
information. The same thing if something wonderful like the Little
League World Series being held there. Eventually, a consensus will
emerge and the changes will be fewer and fewer.
>
> > Next time be a little more upfront in what position you hold when you
> > discuss a subject You should had said that you ran the official site
> > and did work at the paper and also provide links.
>
> This shows that you haven't been paying attention to anything. Nowhere do I
> imply I run the official city site.
----
That was my mistake. I commingled the edits in my mind, but you did not
say you had your own web page at the beginning of this discussion.
Perhaps there is a competitive motivation influencing your opinion of
Wiki?
I ask again, are there any other issue with the sites you want to point
out in the form of mistakes and typos? I will gladly correct them if
warranted.
BTW, I added your site, bangorinfo.com to the Wiki.
---->Hunter
Ryan Robbins
> Ryan Robbins wrote:
>> "Hunter" <buffh...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
>> news:1144114547.2...@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>> > Ryan Robbins wrote:
>> >>
>> >> From the April 22, 2005, Bangor Daily News: "BACTS officials, not
>> >> wanting
>> >> to
>> >> tie the regional system to any one community, insist that 'Bat'
>> >> doesn't
>> >> stand for anything in particular, although riders were likely to infer
>> >> several meanings, such as Bangor Area Transit or Transportation or the
>> >> like."
>> >>
>> >> Don't be so foolish as to claim that this is an error.
>> > ---
>> > First, you should had cited this in the beginning, although I just
>> > conducted a search of the BDM archives and found no article that
>> > matches the text above.
>>
>> I didn't need to cite it because I live here in Bangor. I am the source.
> ---
> But I and others don't know that. How could we?
It's no secret. It's easily verifiable. I've mentioned it several times. And
I mentioned it at the beginning of this side-thread.
> Sorry if we just don't
> take your word for it. Let me put it this way, If Stephen Hawking
> wanted to edit the Wiki article dealing with Black Holes he will have
> to cite some work even if it is by him, because we can't know who you
> are for sure.
Easily verifiable facts do not require extensive citations.
My word is credibility, and I have lots of it, especially with Bangor.
I was born in New York City and lived here all my life. I
> have lived in the Bronx since I was nine years old. If I say the Cross
> Bronx Express way passes under Jerome Avenue in the Bronx, where I
> live, or that the D subway line runs directly under Grand Concourse
> also in the Bronx, I will have to cite a source if I am challenged by
> someone.
No you don't.
> I realize you have this image that you can walk in plop any old thing
> in an article and walk out but there are some controls.
If there are controls, how did a dozen mistakes make it in that easily? A
simple phone call would have revealed that "Bat" doesn't stand for anything.
Actually, going to the city's Web site would have revealed that.
> If you
> repeatedly vandalize a page you will be blocked temporarily and if you
> persist, permanently. If someone has a better cite that overrules yours
> but you keep reverting, that is turning back the article to your old
> version, you can be blocked, and there is a limit as to how many times
> you can revert to avoid "revert wars". It is not Totally open over
> there. Yes, anyone can edit, but if you abuse the privilege and/or
> repeatedly show you have nothing to contribute you will be blocked
> eventually.
And thus Wikipedia is not a reliable source. There is no fact-checking.
>> > http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/bangor/results.html?num=25&st=basic&QryTxt=doesn%27t+stand+for+anything+in+particular&sortby=REVERSE_CHRON&datetype=7
>> >
>> > I used "doesn't stand for anything in particular" as the search
>> > criterion. However, for now I take your word for it. No need to insult
>> > btw. I don't know you nor accept at face value what you say on your say
>> > so. And how did BAT come about? Perhaps you should add that to your
>> > site to dispel misconceptions.
>>
>> My mistake on the year in the date. I should have written "2002."
> ---
> I found it: Bangor unveils new bus system image; [4 Edition]
> JEFF TUTTLE, OF THE NEWS STAFF. Bangor Daily News. Bangor, Me.: Apr 25,
> 2002. pg. 2
>
> http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/bangor/results.html?st=advanced&QryTxt=tie+the+regional+system+to+any+one+community%2C+insist+&sortby=REVERSE_CHRON&datetype=6&frommonth=04&fromday=25&fromyear=2002&tomonth=04&today=25&toyear=2002&By=&Title=
>
> I haven't read the article since I have to pay for it, but I found it
> using parts of the previous quote you posted, so I know it is accurate
> and so I will edit the site to reflect this new knowledge. I will write
> something like this: While the BAT is colloquially known as the Bangor
> Area Transit
It isn't known colloquially as anything here. In fact, it's called "the bus"
in everyday use. Incidentally, the old name of the fleet was The Bus.
>> >> >Still, I would say that the BAT would use it AC less than
>> >> > other cities south of it.
>> >>
>> >> The key word was "seldom." Using air conditioning three months out of
>> >> the
>> >> year is not "seldom."
>> > ----
>> > Bangor summers being cooler relative to other cities, with their higher
>> > mean temperatures and humidity with greater occurrences of 80+ plus
>> > temperatures, yes.
>>
>> "Seldom" isn't comparative.
> ----
> Still on the minor side, but I have changed it to a more accurate
> interpretation on the page.
All that's needed is to say the newer buses have air conditioning.
>> Your standards are much, much too low. Those mistakes were blatant. No
>> effort was made by the authors of those articles to verify the
>> information.
> -----
> Actually my standards are pretty high as my loading you down with links
> testify
Quantity does not equal quality.
>> By the way, I verified the information using old-fashioned Google.
> ---
> Then why didn't you post the link? I googled as well and that is how I
> came up with my data about the circulation of the BDM, most notably
> Lexis/Nexis.
You keep referring to the Bangor Daily News as "BDM."
I didn't post a link because I wanted to see how thorough your research
skills are on this subject. The answer is "not very thorough."
>> > Not according to the site:
>> >
>> > http://www.bgrme.org/cs_publictransit.php/
>>
>> That's not my site. My site is bangorinfo.com.
> ----
> I found it and you indeed do not have Bat in all capitals:
>
> http://bangorinfo.com/transportation.html
>
> Strange that the supposed official government site has it so So the
> official site has something wrong
Imagine that. Governments and corporations like capital letters.
Sure, if we disregard all of the errors, all that's left is accurate.
>> It's pathetic if you consider that it might actually had to have been
>> corrected that many times. Wikipedia is a rought draft. Good
>> encyclopedias
>> aren't rough drafts.
> ----
> That is because it is a constant work in progress. It is *never*
> finished.
And this is precisely why Wikipedia is not reliable. Before Britannica is
released, editors go over the articles to verify their accuracy. Wikipedia
does not. The only potential benefit Wikipedia has over other encyclopedias
is the ability to update the information on the fly, without being
restricted to a publication date. This benefit is outweighed, though, by the
lack of any oversight of what users of the encyclopedia contribute.
Wikipedia can be used as a springboard for research. But I would not accept
it for a citation.
>> > Next time be a little more upfront in what position you hold when you
>> > discuss a subject You should had said that you ran the official site
>> > and did work at the paper and also provide links.
>>
>> This shows that you haven't been paying attention to anything. Nowhere do
>> I
>> imply I run the official city site.
> ----
> That was my mistake. I commingled the edits in my mind, but you did not
> say you had your own web page at the beginning of this discussion.
> Perhaps there is a competitive motivation influencing your opinion of
> Wiki?
Let's just say I'm not going to go out of my way to monitor Wikipedia's
information for accuracy.
> BTW, I added your site, bangorinfo.com to the Wiki.
Thank you.
I do like the concept of Wikipedia. But the reality is its very nature makes
it prone to spreading false information. Some people presume that because
it's an encyclopedia, it must be accurate.
Hunter
I mean your connection to a website. I don't recall you mentioning that
in the beginning. All that you said that you were from Bangor, as if
that is good enough. It isn't.
>
> > Sorry if we just don't
> > take your word for it. Let me put it this way, If Stephen Hawking
> > wanted to edit the Wiki article dealing with Black Holes he will have
> > to cite some work even if it is by him, because we can't know who you
> > are for sure.
>
> Easily verifiable facts do not require extensive citations.
It is up to a person who makes an assertion to provide the evidence,
not the person who he has told to verify it. Just like the burden is on
the accuser in law the burden is on the person who is making the claim
of authority.
>
> My word is credibility, and I have lots of it, especially with Bangor.
I'm sure it is, but I don't know you. Your word is not good enough on
the net. I repeat, you are doing what you accuse wiki of, making
assertions with the expectation of its being there being good enough.
At least most wiki articles have external links to back up what they
say. The Internet isn't Bangor.
>
>
> I was born in New York City and lived here all my life. I
> > have lived in the Bronx since I was nine years old. If I say the Cross
> > Bronx Express way passes under Jerome Avenue in the Bronx, where I
> > live, or that the D subway line runs directly under Grand Concourse
> > also in the Bronx, I will have to cite a source if I am challenged by
> > someone.
>
> No you don't.
Yes I do. That is my high standard. I do not make an assertion unless I
am prepared to back it iup. I do not expect people to take my word for
it for anything..
>
> > I realize you have this image that you can walk in plop any old thing
> > in an article and walk out but there are some controls.
>
> If there are controls, how did a dozen mistakes make it in that easily? A
> simple phone call would have revealed that "Bat" doesn't stand for anything.
> Actually, going to the city's Web site would have revealed that.
I did say some. Sure, it did not say explicitly that BAT stood for
Bangor Area Transit, but it did not say it didn't either. Where on the
city website does it say that Bat doesn't stand for anything? As I
noted, the word "BAT" was all capitalized, implying a acronym.
>
> > If you
> > repeatedly vandalize a page you will be blocked temporarily and if you
> > persist, permanently. If someone has a better cite that overrules yours
> > but you keep reverting, that is turning back the article to your old
> > version, you can be blocked, and there is a limit as to how many times
> > you can revert to avoid "revert wars". It is not Totally open over
> > there. Yes, anyone can edit, but if you abuse the privilege and/or
> > repeatedly show you have nothing to contribute you will be blocked
> > eventually.
>
> And thus Wikipedia is not a reliable source. There is no fact-checking.
By an authoritive source, a single entity? No, but as I said, a
comparison of cites eventually comes to a consensus and the factoid
that eventually wins is the best backed by checkable sources with
footnotes and references for things like books and magazines or
external links to other websites, including official ones of the
subject an article covers when appropriate.
For instance check this article on Mars:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars
Or the New York Yankees:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Yankees
Or General Motors Corporation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors
Note the extensive references and external links, including the
official websites of NASA the Yankees and GM respectively. Mind you I
am not talking about the "Wikilinks" that link to other Wiki articles
but external links to other independent websites. That is why I trust
wikipedia. IT does NOT stand on its own and it usually produces
checkable sources. It is not just telling me it is correct, but showing
me.
>
> >> > http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/bangor/results.html?num=25&st=basic&QryTxt=doesn%27t+stand+for+anything+in+particular&sortby=REVERSE_CHRON&datetype=7
> >> >
> >> > I used "doesn't stand for anything in particular" as the search
> >> > criterion. However, for now I take your word for it. No need to insult
> >> > btw. I don't know you nor accept at face value what you say on your say
> >> > so. And how did BAT come about? Perhaps you should add that to your
> >> > site to dispel misconceptions.
> >>
> >> My mistake on the year in the date. I should have written "2002."
> > ---
> > I found it: Bangor unveils new bus system image; [4 Edition]
> > JEFF TUTTLE, OF THE NEWS STAFF. Bangor Daily News. Bangor, Me.: Apr 25,
> > 2002. pg. 2
> >
> > http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/bangor/results.html?st=advanced&QryTxt=tie+the+regional+system+to+any+one+community%2C+insist+&sortby=REVERSE_CHRON&datetype=6&frommonth=04&fromday=25&fromyear=2002&tomonth=04&today=25&toyear=2002&By=&Title=
> >
> > I haven't read the article since I have to pay for it, but I found it
> > using parts of the previous quote you posted, so I know it is accurate
> > and so I will edit the site to reflect this new knowledge. I will write
> > something like this: While the BAT is colloquially known as the Bangor
> > Area Transit
>
> It isn't known colloquially as anything here. In fact, it's called "the bus"
> in everyday use. Incidentally, the old name of the fleet was The Bus.
----
I will then incorporate that into the site However, the bus is so
pedestrian, we call the MTA surface transit "The Bus" here in NY. not
very imaginative.
>
> >> >> >Still, I would say that the BAT would use it AC less than
> >> >> > other cities south of it.
> >> >>
> >> >> The key word was "seldom." Using air conditioning three months out of
> >> >> the
> >> >> year is not "seldom."
> >> > ----
> >> > Bangor summers being cooler relative to other cities, with their higher
> >> > mean temperatures and humidity with greater occurrences of 80+ plus
> >> > temperatures, yes.
> >>
> >> "Seldom" isn't comparative.
> > ----
> > Still on the minor side, but I have changed it to a more accurate
> > interpretation on the page.
>
> All that's needed is to say the newer buses have air conditioning.
----
You mean the older buses didn't? How old where they? Even if they were
30 years old that would put them in the middle of the 1970s I think air
conditioned transit buses were available then. They were in New
York-when they worked anyway. :-) I will put this factoid in the
wikesite as well.
>
> >> Your standards are much, much too low. Those mistakes were blatant. No
> >> effort was made by the authors of those articles to verify the
> >> information.
> > -----
> > Actually my standards are pretty high as my loading you down with links
> > testify
>
> Quantity does not equal quality.
----
At least I showed you why and where I was getting my info.
>
> >> By the way, I verified the information using old-fashioned Google.
> > ---
> > Then why didn't you post the link? I googled as well and that is how I
> > came up with my data about the circulation of the BDM, most notably
> > Lexis/Nexis.
>
> You keep referring to the Bangor Daily News as "BDM."
----
Mistake, probably unconsciously referencing something with BDM maybe
the Bund Deutscher Madel, the female arm of the Hitler Youth I was
reading about in between reading the post in alt.tv.lost.
>
> I didn't post a link because I wanted to see how thorough your research
> skills are on this subject. The answer is "not very thorough."
-----
No, you didn't post the link because as you said before, you found no
need to as if your word was enough. Anyone who have followed this
thread knows I posted links about the circulation figures of the papers
mentioned.
http://www.asne.org/index.cfm?ID=37
http://w3.nexis.com/sources/scripts/info.pl?144564
http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/contact_us/rc_sites/
However, now that you "tested" my research skills and found them
wanting, how about providing your link?
>
> >> > Not according to the site:
> >> >
> >> > http://www.bgrme.org/cs_publictransit.php/
> >>
> >> That's not my site. My site is bangorinfo.com.
> > ----
> > I found it and you indeed do not have Bat in all capitals:
> >
> > http://bangorinfo.com/transportation.html
> >
> > Strange that the supposed official government site has it so So the
> > official site has something wrong
>
> Imagine that. Governments and corporations like capital letters.
----
Sure, when they use them in acronyms and initials. BAT suggest that the
individual letters stand for them.
----
So be it. And I have changed almost all the errors you raised.
>
> >> It's pathetic if you consider that it might actually had to have been
> >> corrected that many times. Wikipedia is a rought draft. Good
> >> encyclopedias
> >> aren't rough drafts.
> > ----
> > That is because it is a constant work in progress. It is *never*
> > finished.
>
> And this is precisely why Wikipedia is not reliable. Before Britannica is
> released, editors go over the articles to verify their accuracy. Wikipedia
> does not. The only potential benefit Wikipedia has over other encyclopedias
> is the ability to update the information on the fly, without being
> restricted to a publication date. This benefit is outweighed, though, by the
> lack of any oversight of what users of the encyclopedia contribute.
> Wikipedia can be used as a springboard for research. But I would not accept
> it for a citation.
----
If you provide links and references along with the wiki article it is
worthy of citing. Anyone who visits a article can read the references,
footnotes and external links for back up. However you are right, I
would not cite it alone, but I recommend never citing any one source by
itself.
>
> >> > Next time be a little more upfront in what position you hold when you
> >> > discuss a subject You should had said that you ran the official site
> >> > and did work at the paper and also provide links.
> >>
> >> This shows that you haven't been paying attention to anything. Nowhere do
> >> I
> >> imply I run the official city site.
> > ----
> > That was my mistake. I commingled the edits in my mind, but you did not
> > say you had your own web page at the beginning of this discussion.
> > Perhaps there is a competitive motivation influencing your opinion of
> > Wiki?
>
> Let's just say I'm not going to go out of my way to monitor Wikipedia's
> information for accuracy.
>
> > BTW, I added your site, bangorinfo.com to the Wiki.
>
> Thank you.
>
> I do like the concept of Wikipedia. But the reality is its very nature makes
> it prone to spreading false information. Some people presume that because
> it's an encyclopedia, it must be accurate.
----
Then we part in at least partial agreement, people believe too much
what they read, (which is one reason I demanded links from you) but I
would say that is true about any site. After all I did find plenty of
non-wiki sites that use Bangor Area Transit. I would worry more about
those sites. At least I was able to change Wiki.
No site is perfect but what I have seen Wiki is better than a lot of
other stand alone, single authored sites.
Thank You for helping me making the Bangor and related sites more
perfect. :-)
---->Hunter
Ryan Robbins
Of course it's good enough. Next you'll be telling me you don't believe that
I have blue eyes and that I need to provide some kind of documentation of
that.
>> > Sorry if we just don't
>> > take your word for it. Let me put it this way, If Stephen Hawking
>> > wanted to edit the Wiki article dealing with Black Holes he will have
>> > to cite some work even if it is by him, because we can't know who you
>> > are for sure.
>>
>> Easily verifiable facts do not require extensive citations.
> -----
> It is up to a person who makes an assertion to provide the evidence,
> not the person who he has told to verify it.
And Wikipedia provided no such evidence to support "Bangor Area Transit."
All it did was refer to third-party Web sites when the official site was the
obvious one to refer to. That and the telephone.
You're welcome to visit Bangor and find out for yourself. You can see that
"Bat" doesn't stand for anything. You can see that there are only two
Wal-Marts. You can see that Mansfield Stadium opened in 1992.
>> My word is credibility, and I have lots of it, especially with Bangor.
> ----
> I'm sure it is, but I don't know you. Your word is not good enough on
> the net. I repeat, you are doing what you accuse wiki of, making
> assertions with the expectation of its being there being good enough.
> At least most wiki articles have external links to back up what they
> say.
Garbage in equals garbage out. That's what Wikipedia did with the bus
system's name.
>> I was born in New York City and lived here all my life. I
>> > have lived in the Bronx since I was nine years old. If I say the Cross
>> > Bronx Express way passes under Jerome Avenue in the Bronx, where I
>> > live, or that the D subway line runs directly under Grand Concourse
>> > also in the Bronx, I will have to cite a source if I am challenged by
>> > someone.
>>
>> No you don't.
> ----
> Yes I do. That is my high standard. I do not make an assertion unless I
> am prepared to back it iup. I do not expect people to take my word for
> it for anything..
The source would be you, because you can either walk the route or drive it.
You can actually see it. You are being my eyes, just as a newspaper reporter
stands in for me when covering meetings and other events.
>> > I realize you have this image that you can walk in plop any old thing
>> > in an article and walk out but there are some controls.
>>
>> If there are controls, how did a dozen mistakes make it in that easily? A
>> simple phone call would have revealed that "Bat" doesn't stand for
>> anything.
>> Actually, going to the city's Web site would have revealed that.
> ---
> I did say some. Sure, it did not say explicitly that BAT stood for
> Bangor Area Transit, but it did not say it didn't either.
That's because there was no need to.
>That is why I trust
> wikipedia. IT does NOT stand on its own and it usually produces
> checkable sources. It is not just telling me it is correct, but showing
> me.
Then it did a terrible job just on Bangor stuff. And that's why other
articles are suspect, too.
>> All that's needed is to say the newer buses have air conditioning.
> ----
> You mean the older buses didn't? How old where they? Even if they were
> 30 years old that would put them in the middle of the 1970s I think air
> conditioned transit buses were available then. They were in New
> York-when they worked anyway. :-) I will put this factoid in the
> wikesite as well.
The older buses aren't that old. They just don't have air conditioning.
>> I didn't post a link because I wanted to see how thorough your research
>> skills are on this subject. The answer is "not very thorough."
> -----
> No, you didn't post the link because as you said before, you found no
> need to as if your word was enough. Anyone who have followed this
> thread knows I posted links about the circulation figures of the papers
> mentioned.
And a simple Google search showed a contradiction right off the bat, a
contradiction that you didn't even notice. You took the first source you saw
and ran with it. You can't do that.
Why would you place more faith in the source you cited than in someone who
has inside knowledge of the paper? How do you know your source got the
information from anywhere, even? A simple look at the market area here
should have sparked suspicion that circulation couldn't be that high for a
newspaper in such a small market.
Here's a question for you: Do you know what the figures you posted earlier
actually refer to? (I do.)
>
> http://www.asne.org/index.cfm?ID=37
>
> http://w3.nexis.com/sources/scripts/info.pl?144564
>
> http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/contact_us/rc_sites/
>
> However, now that you "tested" my research skills and found them
> wanting, how about providing your link?
The most reliable one would be the paper's annual circulation statement to
the Postal Service. But I don't have that paper anymore.
Hunter
Maybe you don't. You keep missing the point that I can't independently
verify that with most people. I mean a Homeland Security official just
got busted for trying to proposition and download images to someone he
thought was an underage girl. Boy was he surprised! The point is you
can say anything you want and you have an attitude I should believe you
just because of that. Now you have a website and I have tracked down
some of you assertions, like two Wal-marts in the Bangor area so
chances are great you are saying is true, but again, I have the
evidence. You have the attitude I should have taken your word at face
value. I don't do that.
>
> >> > Sorry if we just don't
> >> > take your word for it. Let me put it this way, If Stephen Hawking
> >> > wanted to edit the Wiki article dealing with Black Holes he will have
> >> > to cite some work even if it is by him, because we can't know who you
> >> > are for sure.
> >>
> >> Easily verifiable facts do not require extensive citations.
> > -----
> > It is up to a person who makes an assertion to provide the evidence,
> > not the person who he has told to verify it.
>
> And Wikipedia provided no such evidence to support "Bangor Area Transit."
> All it did was refer to third-party Web sites when the official site was the
> obvious one to refer to. That and the telephone.
The author at least referred to third party website, probably several
and he or she did put an external link to the official Website on the
Wikipage, but again the official website was misleading in that it has
BAT all capitalized and did not say specifically say that BAT doesn't
stand for anything. So you have a n official website that is
misleading, a third and even fourth or more websites that assert that
BAT meant Bangor Area Transit so yes the author(s) probably did assume
that that was true, but at least it was based on some outside evidence,
not on the mere word of someone. Perhaps they should had taken the
extra step of phoning, but they thought they had good evidence as it
was. Misleading evidence but evidence non the less. not merely
someone's word.
>
> You're welcome to visit Bangor and find out for yourself. You can see that
> "Bat" doesn't stand for anything. You can see that there are only two
> Wal-Marts. You can see that Mansfield Stadium opened in 1992.
Sir, I do not doubt what you say now that I have found independent
sources for your assertions. What again I take issue is your
bewilderment that I do not take you at your word without you yourself
putting forth any evidence. Again, I don't do that.
>
> >> My word is credibility, and I have lots of it, especially with Bangor.
> > ----
> > I'm sure it is, but I don't know you. Your word is not good enough on
> > the net. I repeat, you are doing what you accuse wiki of, making
> > assertions with the expectation of its being there being good enough.
> > At least most wiki articles have external links to back up what they
> > say.
>
> Garbage in equals garbage out. That's what Wikipedia did with the bus
> system's name.
Actually that is true. It turned out that some of the evidence
supporting it was misleading, but it did provide evidence in the form
of the official site ironically. I do think however that they should
had provided more external links, although somewhat ironically the only
link it does provide is the BAT website.
>
> >> I was born in New York City and lived here all my life. I
> >> > have lived in the Bronx since I was nine years old. If I say the Cross
> >> > Bronx Express way passes under Jerome Avenue in the Bronx, where I
> >> > live, or that the D subway line runs directly under Grand Concourse
> >> > also in the Bronx, I will have to cite a source if I am challenged by
> >> > someone.
> >>
> >> No you don't.
> > ----
> > Yes I do. That is my high standard. I do not make an assertion unless I
> > am prepared to back it iup. I do not expect people to take my word for
> > it for anything..
>
> The source would be you, because you can either walk the route or drive it.
> You can actually see it. You are being my eyes, just as a newspaper reporter
> stands in for me when covering meetings and other events.
But a newspaper reporter is accredited and you know the person and that
person has a track record. I do not know you nor your track record or
even be sure if you are really Ryan Robbins and not someone using his
name on another computer. You are a faceless person on the net.
>
> >> > I realize you have this image that you can walk in plop any old thing
> >> > in an article and walk out but there are some controls.
> >>
> >> If there are controls, how did a dozen mistakes make it in that easily? A
> >> simple phone call would have revealed that "Bat" doesn't stand for
> >> anything.
> >> Actually, going to the city's Web site would have revealed that.
> > ---
> > I did say some. Sure, it did not say explicitly that BAT stood for
> > Bangor Area Transit, but it did not say it didn't either.
>
> That's because there was no need to.
If they truly want to dispel the Bangor Area Transit fallacy, sure they
do. BAT implies initials and/or an acronym.
>
> >That is why I trust
> > wikipedia. IT does NOT stand on its own and it usually produces
> > checkable sources. It is not just telling me it is correct, but showing
> > me.
>
> Then it did a terrible job just on Bangor stuff. And that's why other
> articles are suspect, too.
Considering the relatively few mistakes you found on the Bangor, Maine
site proper given the amount of data provided they did an good job and
I have since corrected most of those few. You found what six
significant mistakes and two of those was a spelling error and the age
of the Garden Cemetery? Oh about that you have competition:
http://www.forever-care.com/about_us.shtml
Those Pennsylvanians claim *they* have the second oldest garden
cemetery in the United States. Of course they spell States in United
States "Stares" I guess someone hit the "r" key instead of "t".
This site also claim that Laurel Hill is the second oldest garden
cemetery:
http://www.volunteersolutions.org/org/16383676.html
Or is it these people in Ohio?
http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2003/09/01/loc_wwwloc3binote.html
Of course this cemetery dates back to only 1845 while yours to 1836...
Someone at the Cincinnati Enquirer fell asleep at the switch. :-)
>
> >> All that's needed is to say the newer buses have air conditioning.
> > ----
> > You mean the older buses didn't? How old where they? Even if they were
> > 30 years old that would put them in the middle of the 1970s I think air
> > conditioned transit buses were available then. They were in New
> > York-when they worked anyway. :-) I will put this factoid in the
> > wikesite as well.
>
> The older buses aren't that old. They just don't have air conditioning.
----
You mean they were built in the 1980's? (buses are an expensive pieces
of equipment. I do not see a Transit system changing over its equipment
in less than 20 years unless there was some serious flaw in them.) That
is even more telling. Why did it take so long for the transit system
there to adapt air condition buses?
>
> >> I didn't post a link because I wanted to see how thorough your research
> >> skills are on this subject. The answer is "not very thorough."
> > -----
> > No, you didn't post the link because as you said before, you found no
> > need to as if your word was enough. Anyone who have followed this
> > thread knows I posted links about the circulation figures of the papers
> > mentioned.
>
> And a simple Google search showed a contradiction right off the bat, a
> contradiction that you didn't even notice. You took the first source you saw
> and ran with it. You can't do that.
---
I did not do that I gave a thorough search/ Perhaps I have to refine my
technique, but I did not jump on the first solution that backed up my
point. I did find Lexis/Nexis credible because I did know their name as
a prominent media source and journalist use it in research.
>
> Why would you place more faith in the source you cited than in someone who
> has inside knowledge of the paper?
----
Because you can see an online source and compare it to others. I don't
know you. You say you have a connection to a paper but I don't know
that. That is the hindrance of the net. I do not mean to call you
dishonest I believe you, but that is because I have independently
verified most of your facts. I simply do not take ANYONES word over the
net. They would have to show me, and I am not at all offended when they
demand the same from me.
>
> How do you know your source got the information from anywhere, even?
----
I admit there is a level of trust, but you are also demanding that same
trust with your website. How do I know to an absolute certainty that
your sources are correct? I don't. I can only compare and contrast,
but that is still better than taking the word of a faceless person on
the net because of his say-so.
>
> A simple look at the market area here should have sparked suspicion that circulation couldn't be that high for a newspaper in such a small market.
----
That depends on the size of the market it was taking about. Does the
circulation reflect just the Southern Maine counties or across the
boarder to other states? How about other parts of the country? I don't
know, but I will search anew.
>
> Here's a question for you: Do you know what the figures you posted earlier
> actually refer to? (I do.)
----
Prey tell.
> >
> > http://www.asne.org/index.cfm?ID=37
> >
> > http://w3.nexis.com/sources/scripts/info.pl?144564
> >
> > http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/contact_us/rc_sites/
> >
> > However, now that you "tested" my research skills and found them
> > wanting, how about providing your link?
>
> The most reliable one would be the paper's annual circulation statement to
> the Postal Service. But I don't have that paper anymore.
-----
Thanks, I know what to look for next time. I think the fact that I was
able to independently verify how many Wal-Marts were in your area and
the weather in Bangor, Maine on March 31, 2006 says my powers of
research is pretty good. :-)
----->Hunter
Ryan Robbins
>>
>> The source would be you, because you can either walk the route or drive
>> it.
>> You can actually see it. You are being my eyes, just as a newspaper
>> reporter
>> stands in for me when covering meetings and other events.
> ----
> But a newspaper reporter is accredited and you know the person and that
> person has a track record. I do not know you nor your track record or
> even be sure if you are really Ryan Robbins and not someone using his
> name on another computer. You are a faceless person on the net.
A newspaper reporter is "accredited"? By whom? The last time I checked, you
didn't need a license to become a journalist.
All you had to do to verify my credentials was a little basic Googling and
some Lexis searching.
> Considering the relatively few mistakes you found on the Bangor, Maine
> site proper given the amount of data provided they did an good job and
> I have since corrected most of those few.
You seem to be in deep denial about the accuracy of Wikipedia on one subject
alone. I found about a dozen errors just like that. On one tiny element of
the entire encyclopedia.
> You found what six
> significant mistakes and two of those was a spelling error and the age
> of the Garden Cemetery? Oh about that you have competition:
>
> http://www.forever-care.com/about_us.shtml
>
> Those Pennsylvanians claim *they* have the second oldest garden
> cemetery in the United States. Of course they spell States in United
> States "Stares" I guess someone hit the "r" key instead of "t".
>
> This site also claim that Laurel Hill is the second oldest garden
> cemetery:
>
> http://www.volunteersolutions.org/org/16383676.html
>
> Or is it these people in Ohio?
>
> http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2003/09/01/loc_wwwloc3binote.html
Your research skills are in need of refining.
Laurel Hill was established a year or two after Mount Hope Cemetery.
The other cemetery is waaaaay behind.
> You mean they were built in the 1980's? (buses are an expensive pieces
> of equipment. I do not see a Transit system changing over its equipment
> in less than 20 years unless there was some serious flaw in them.) That
> is even more telling. Why did it take so long for the transit system
> there to adapt air condition buses?
Who cares?
>> Why would you place more faith in the source you cited than in someone
>> who
>> has inside knowledge of the paper?
> ----
> Because you can see an online source and compare it to others. I don't
> know you. You say you have a connection to a paper but I don't know
> that. That is the hindrance of the net. I do not mean to call you
> dishonest I believe you, but that is because I have independently
> verified most of your facts. I simply do not take ANYONES word over the
> net.
It's becoming apparent to me that you place great faith in what you see on
the Internet. That's a foolish faith. The Internet is no more reliable than
the word of a Bangor resident.
>I can only compare and contrast,
> but that is still better than taking the word of a faceless person on
> the net because of his say-so.
But for some reason Wikipedia has more credibility? We now know that's not
the case.
>> A simple look at the market area here should have sparked suspicion that
>> circulation couldn't be that high for a newspaper in such a small
>> market.
> ----
> That depends on the size of the market it was taking about. Does the
> circulation reflect just the Southern Maine counties or across the
> boarder to other states? How about other parts of the country? I don't
> know, but I will search anew.
Bangor isn't in southern Maine.
>> Here's a question for you: Do you know what the figures you posted
>> earlier
>> actually refer to? (I do.)
> ----
> Prey tell.
That would be "pray."
Those numbers likely reflect the number of READERS.
Hunter
> "Hunter" <buffh...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:1144325268.8...@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> >>
> >> The source would be you, because you can either walk the route or drive
> >> it.
> >> You can actually see it. You are being my eyes, just as a newspaper
> >> reporter
> >> stands in for me when covering meetings and other events.
> > ----
> > But a newspaper reporter is accredited and you know the person and that
> > person has a track record. I do not know you nor your track record or
> > even be sure if you are really Ryan Robbins and not someone using his
> > name on another computer. You are a faceless person on the net.
>
> A newspaper reporter is "accredited"? By whom? The last time I checked, you
> didn't need a license to become a journalist.
Accredited is the wrong word. I meant that the paper knows him, his
back ground his track record. At least most of the time. There have
been scandals in which "journalist" made up stories after all. At
anyrate, it is still a lot better than taking the word of someone over
the net.
>
> All you had to do to verify my credentials was a little basic Googling and
> some Lexis searching.
That's nice. I accept who you purport you say you are as a matter of
faith, but from an objective view point, I don't really know if you are
really Ryan R. Robbins or some impostor saying he is.
>
> > Considering the relatively few mistakes you found on the Bangor, Maine
> > site proper given the amount of data provided they did an good job and
> > I have since corrected most of those few.
>
> You seem to be in deep denial about the accuracy of Wikipedia on one subject
> alone. I found about a dozen errors just like that. On one tiny element of
> the entire encyclopedia.
And others have found errors in news papers magazines. Even in the
links I gave you about the Encyclopedia Britannica responding to the
alleged errors found with it by Nature. I am not saying that Wiki
doesn't have a higher error rate or that the quality varies, especially
with low trafficked pages in which mistakes have a better chance of
sneaking through, but from what I have seen and some of the studies I
have seen both in favor and in disfavor of Wiki, and yes while there
are problems with Wiki, if hasn't steered me wrong and again, I don't
just read what is on the page, but also visit the links.
>
> > You found what six
> > significant mistakes and two of those was a spelling error and the age
> > of the Garden Cemetery? Oh about that you have competition:
> >
> > http://www.forever-care.com/about_us.shtml
> >
> > Those Pennsylvanians claim *they* have the second oldest garden
> > cemetery in the United States. Of course they spell States in United
> > States "Stares" I guess someone hit the "r" key instead of "t".
> >
> > This site also claim that Laurel Hill is the second oldest garden
> > cemetery:
> >
> > http://www.volunteersolutions.org/org/16383676.html
> >
> > Or is it these people in Ohio?
> >
> > http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2003/09/01/loc_wwwloc3binote.html
>
> Your research skills are in need of refining.
>
> Laurel Hill was established a year or two after Mount Hope Cemetery.
>
> The other cemetery is waaaaay behind.
I am not disputing the position of your garden cemetery. It is indeed
the second oldest, as far as the majority of the links on the subject
say. What I am saying that even respected papers like the Cincinnati
Examiner can get it wrong. However, the advantage of Wiki it can be
corrected and updated.
>
> > You mean they were built in the 1980's? (buses are an expensive pieces
> > of equipment. I do not see a Transit system changing over its equipment
> > in less than 20 years unless there was some serious flaw in them.) That
> > is even more telling. Why did it take so long for the transit system
> > there to adapt air condition buses?
>
> Who cares?
I do. I would like to know. I goes to motive. Why are they just buying
air condition equipped busses now? Perhaps it was felt there was no
great need for them before?
>
> >> Why would you place more faith in the source you cited than in someone
> >> who
> >> has inside knowledge of the paper?
> > ----
> > Because you can see an online source and compare it to others. I don't
> > know you. You say you have a connection to a paper but I don't know
> > that. That is the hindrance of the net. I do not mean to call you
> > dishonest I believe you, but that is because I have independently
> > verified most of your facts. I simply do not take ANYONES word over the
> > net.
>
> It's becoming apparent to me that you place great faith in what you see on
> the Internet. That's a foolish faith. The Internet is no more reliable than
> the word of a Bangor resident.
Actually I don't. I like to compare and contrast. To see what sites are
more respectable. The website of the New York Times I find more
inherently trustworthy than Bob and Joe's site. Wiki lets you compare
sites like that by providing external links, The NASA, GM and Yankee
wikisites and chuck full of respectable sites, including official ones.
I found the circulation data from one of the Bangor papers in question
on Lexis/Nexis a site you cite as to confirm the veracity of yourself.
Bottom line is while not perfect, comparing websites is much much
better than just taking some person's word for it who is reluctant to
back up what he says. You can at least make a judgment call between
sites, to see if they are consistent or not, and people can see at
least where you are getting your data from wrong or not.
>
> >I can only compare and contrast,
> > but that is still better than taking the word of a faceless person on
> > the net because of his say-so.
>
> But for some reason Wikipedia has more credibility? We now know that's not
> the case.
As I said, the articles post references, footnotes and external links.
Again, it is not just Wiki alone saying it. Even the site you criticize
has some respectable external links Including to official sites,
including the Bangor Region Chamber of Commerce and the Bangor
Convention and Visitors Bureau. Ten external links in all. Eleven now
that I have added yours. It is not just citing itself
>
> >> A simple look at the market area here should have sparked suspicion that
> >> circulation couldn't be that high for a newspaper in such a small
> >> market.
> > ----
> > That depends on the size of the market it was taking about. Does the
> > circulation reflect just the Southern Maine counties or across the
> > boarder to other states? How about other parts of the country? I don't
> > know, but I will search anew.
>
> Bangor isn't in southern Maine.
I have previously posted this link to the American Society of Newspaper
Editors page
with data for the Portland Press Herald/Maine Sunday Telegram. It is
six years out of date but comparing it to a more recent Knight
Foundation link below the circulation figures aren't all that
different. However, the point in this case is where it is circulated
and according to the site by the American Society of Newspaper Editors
the area of circulation is in the southern counties of Maine.
"Circulation area: Daily circulation is in the five Southern Maine
counties; Sunday circulation is statewide"
http://www.asne.org/index.cfm?ID=37
Where Bangor is in this case is irrelevant since we are talking about
circulation both inside and outside of Bangor proper.
>
> >> Here's a question for you: Do you know what the figures you posted
> >> earlier
> >> actually refer to? (I do.)
> > ----
> > Prey tell.
>
> That would be "pray."
------
Correction noted. On the subject of spelling since you are so concerned
about on Wiki and my post, I found a few on your site. Viz:
On the Page "Welcome to the Queen City" "October" is misspelled
"Otober" and "sculptures" is misspelled "scupltures".
On the subpage of "Bangor in Focus" called "Bass Park", "likable" is
misspelled "likeable"
On "The Great Fire of 1911" page "Synagogue" is misspelled "synogogue"
"School" is misspelled "sceool", but I am allowing for the page making
a faithful recreation of the newspaper quote. If that is the case the
term "sic" should had been used.
"Occurred" is misspelled "occured" but again it is part of a reproduced
quote, but "sic" is again not present.
On the "Maine Visitor Information" page "damage" is misspelled "damge"
I did not check all of the pages, but those are the ones I found on the
pages I did check. I will trust you will correct these words
immediately since they seem to be as important as factual errors.
>
> Those numbers likely reflect the number of READERS.
According to the 1/17/06 posting on the Mediaspan website The Bangor
Daily News (BDN) has a
daily circulation of 63,000 and a weekend circulation of 73,000
Its source is ABC's FAS-FAX ending September 30, 2005
This site has similar numbers:
Daily Circulation: 60,027; Sunday: 70,591
http://www.nationwideadvertising.com/adinbanmainb.html
For the Portland Press Herald/Maine Sunday Telegram according to the
Knight Foundation site the daily circulation is 77,788. (As of May 20
2005).
To find it on the site it is in this sentence:
"FYI, in circulation, this newspaper's average weekday circulation of
approximately 77,788 ranks 130 out of 1,410 daily newspapers in the
US."
http://powerreporting.com/knight/me_portland_press_herald_maine_sunday_telegram.html
This compares to the 76,000 (for 2000) on the ASNE site. No figure was
mentioned
on the Knight Foundation site for Sunday circulation to compare with
the
127,000 Sunday circulation on the ASNE site.
Bottom line, I have confirmed that the PPH/MST is larger than
the BDN and I will change the Wiki site to reflect that.
Being able to compare webpage sources is a big advantage over someone
just typing and telling you over the net.
--->Hunter