Grid & Bear It
tdciago
shown on "Lost," I wanted to put this information in its own thread.
The shot of a constellation that looks like a reversed Big Dipper
minus one star occurred in the Season 1 episode "Special." Much of
this episode focused on Walt and Michael. The following events occur:
1) Walt reads the comic book with the polar bear in it.
2) Michael throws the comic book in the fire (
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=27140&fullsize=1 )
3) In Walt's house in Australia, we see a ceiling with octagonal
sections, like an eight-spoked wheel.
4) Walt is attacked by a real polar bear, and is rescued by Michael
and Locke.
5) Right after the rescue, the camera shows the sky and lingers on the
constellation.
6) Toward the conclusion of the episode, Michael gives Walt a box
containing correspondence from him, which Susan had kept from Walt.
7) At the very end of the episode, a still-pregnant Claire suddenly
shows up in the jungle, her kidnapping ordeal ended.
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Special
The Big Dipper is an asterism in the constellation Ursa Major (Great
Bear), so its inclusion in this particular episode can't be just a
coincidence. As a very clever viewer pointed out, if you make a grid
of 7 columns and 6 rows, just like the Connect Four game that Leonard
Simms played at Santa Rosa (an anagram of AS ON A STAR), and you
number the holes from 1 to 42, starting at the bottom left corner, the
"Numbers" form the same reversed Big Dipper shown in the sky:
http://lostleaks.googlepages.com/BigDipper.jpg
The numbers on the grid were placed as though one was completing each
column of the Connect Four board, with the game pieces filling the
board from bottom to top. Since Leonard was the one who inadvertently
gave the numbers to Hurley, it makes sense that this type of 42-space
grid would be related to the "Numbers." In the episode "Numbers,"
Hurley will see another 6 x 7 grid on one of Danielle's notes, where
she has written the 6 "Numbers" in 7 rows. When Lenny found out that
Hurley had used the numbers to win the lottery, he started screaming
that Hurley had "opened the box."
There is a very good summary of many of these facts, along with
screencaps, here:
http://fivestadeslosthermind.blogspot.com/2008/06/big-dipper-debate.html
We now know that the "Numbers" correspond to particular characters on
the show. Since we also know that these "Numbers" correspond to stars
in a reversed Big Dipper, via the Connect Four board, I think there is
ample evidence to at least consider that these characters *are*
stars. There is also the possibility that they are starseeds, with
one human parent and one star-parent.
That brings us to Aaron, who has been associated with the song "Catch
a Falling Star," first through Claire and later on his own. It's
Claire who appears suddenly at the end of "Special." I've previously
pointed out the Lakota legend of Fallen Star, whose mother was a
Lakota woman who married the North Star and went to live with him in
the heavens. She became pregnant, and while digging up a turnip in
the sky, opened up a hole and fell to Earth. The mother died after
giving birth to a son, who was found by some Lakota boys and raised by
the tribe ("Raised by Another"?). He was named Fallen Star, and after
he was grown, he returned to the sky to watch over his adoptive family
on Earth. He figures in many Lakota constellation stories. His
father, the North Star, so overcome by grief at the loss of his wife,
became fixed in one place, which is why the pole star acts as the hub
of a wheel around which the other stars rotate. I think this legend
is the source of Aaron's nickname, Turniphead, and the missing star in
the constellation must be the fallen star. The flashbacks in
"Special" detail events in the life of another special boy, Walt. The
symbolism of the wheel is also significant, especially since it's
possible that one of the polar bears on the island turned the Frozen
Donkey Wheel at some point.
tdciago
> His
> father, the North Star, so overcome by grief at the loss of his wife,
> became fixed in one place, which is why the pole star acts as the hub
> of a wheel around which the other stars rotate.
What is the only star that would require a candidate for its
replacement?
S
P
O
I
L
E
R
S
P
A
C
E
"Today we know the Northern Pole Star as Polaris but 6000 years ago
from 3942BC until 1793BC the Pole Star that sat above the North Pole
and appeared to stay stationary while the whole Universe revolved
around it was a star named Thuban and this is an Arabic word meaning
dragon while Draco is the Latin word for dragon…because Thuban sits in
the constellation of Draco, the constellation portrayed as a serpent
dragon.
The ancient Egyptians knew of it and Draco is among the earliest of
the constellations to have been defined and in one of the oldest known
astronomical records they identified it as Tawaret, the goddess of the
northern sky. Considered ever-vigilant because the constellation never
set, she was depicted a fierce protective goddess whose body was
actually a composite of parts rather than just a dragon. After Thuban
came the twin stars known as Kochab and Pherkad, referred to as the
'Guardians of the Pole'. They served as twin pole stars, Earth’s North
Pole stars, from 1500 BC until 500 AD."
http://www.redbubble.com/people/ravenmadd/writing/3924595-the-dragon-in-the-cosmic-ocean-of-mt-meru
JACOB: I'll be right here.
Look up the various stars that have served as the North Star, and
you'll understand a lot of what's happening on that island. A polar
bear, a swan, a seated king, and a musical instrument all have their
roles to play.
It must suck to be a Guardian of the Pole.
jack
If the island is in the South Pacific the *North* Star should not be
visible at all.
Probably why if there is a southern constellation that looks like it,
it is of a different orientation and number of stars.
tdciago
> If the island is in the South Pacific the *North* Star should not be
> visible at all.
Uh, Jack, they're not in the South Pacific.
tdciago
> After Thuban
> came the twin stars known as Kochab and Pherkad, referred to as the
> 'Guardians of the Pole'.
The following is an excellent summary of the FDW and its relationship
to global myths about a magical mill.
The Frozen Wheel in Global Myth
by Sevvina X
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Sevvina_X/The_Frozen_Wheel_in_Global_Myth
The “Frozen Wheel” is clearly the linchpin of the island’s mysterious
properties, but what is it really? A likely answer can be found in
some of the most esoteric studies of comparative religion as published
in Hamlet’s Mill by Giorgio de Santillana and Hertha von Dechend.
Across the world, there are central themes to the very oldest of
religious and occult traditions that are consistent, no matter the
geographic location. One example of these is the “Great Flood”, the
most familiar example of which is the Old Testament flood of Noah.
This story has been passed down through the ages by as many as 100
distinct cultures, all across the globe. Hamlet’s Mill, or Amlodhi’s
Quern, is another of these stories.
Appearing as the hourglass-shaped Mt. Meru of Buddhist tradition, the
‘churn of the Milky Sea’ of the Hindus, and countless other variations
from ancient Egypt to the Maya, the Mill is a focal point between the
forces of good and evil (or light and darkness). As it turns, so is
the fortune of mankind churned or ground out. In ancient Scandinavian
tales, the Mill was pushed round by two giantesses, who ground out
gold and bounty until the gift was abused and the giantesses were
forced to push the Mill day and night without rest. For their master’s
hubris, they cursed the Mill to only grind out misery and death. It
was cast into the sea, where the tears of pain that it still produces
salt the waters.
This brings us to LOST, and the “Frozen Wheel”. It appears to be an
item of extreme antiquity and is, if not the driving force behind the
island’s properties, at least the control valve for the energies. The
Mill would be an item of extreme power, as mentioned by Dr. Chang, and
also great care would have to be taken to keep it out of the hands of
those who would exploit it (as Ben said Charles Widmore would). When
the Wheel was turned by Ben, it shone out a gold light, just as
Hamlet’s Mill ground out gold for its master. What might happen if the
Wheel were turned by someone who did not have the protection of the
island in mind?
The pervasive story of Hamlet’s Mill is also seen as an allegory for
the precession of the Zodiac. This precession is the incredibly slow
turning of the sky in relation to the sun’s rising and setting. Based
upon the sun’s position among the stars on the Spring Equinox, we are
currently leaving the Age of Pisces and entering the Age of Aquarius.
This is not just astrological interpretation, but an actual measured
progression of the turning of the earth, solar system, and galaxy. In
many traditions, the Mill was the source of the Milky Way in the sky,
a great churn that the gods used to turn the heavens. This links the
Mill (and thus the Wheel) to the turning of time.
Many incarnations of the Mill were also seen as the center or axis of
the world. Mt. Meru of the Buddhists toppled at the time of the
Buddha’s death, but many other traditions have the center axis of the
Mill as a post or tree upon which the great king of the age was
sacrificed to make way for the next.* This transition is not a smooth
one, and at the end of an age, the Mill will slip off its axis, or
break a pin. During this time, the world is in chaos, civilizations
fall. It is at this time that the king is sacrificed to make way for a
new era. The entity that appeared as Christian Shephard to Locke told
him that the Wheel “had slipped off its axis” and that only Locke
could set it right again. Ben could not use the wheel without it
unhinging because he was no longer the “king”. Locke was, and only his
sacrifice could set the Island back on its axis.**
Other interesting connections with this myth include the imagery of
the fire-bow or fire-drill. This was the first tool shown in use on
the Island after Ben turned the Wheel (Bernard used it on the beach).
In ancient Egyptian tradition, the Mill was portrayed as this tool,
turned back and forth between Horus and Set (light and dark). This was
also one of the hieroglyphs on the countdown clock in the Swan
station.
So, with this ancient esoteric knowledge at hand, it is no surprise
that the Wheel shone out golden light, that it is a source of
tremendous energy, and that it has power over time. It makes sense
that the leader must be sacrificed to set the Wheel aright if it slips
off its axis. The combination of many different cultural traditions,
from the darmacakra to the hieroglyphs, no longer seems odd. The Wheel
is in its correct place under the ocean and in the cold dark, waiting
to grind out misery or happiness, as its master wishes.
* This axis is seen by de Santillana and von Dechend as an allegory
for the unseen axis of earth that points to the current North Star,
Polaris. Modern astronomy knows, however, that Polaris was not always
and will not always be the Pole Star. The same wobble or shift that
produces the Zodiacal precession also moves the sky in relation to the
axis, gradually pointing to a different place in the sky. The stars
along this track are referred to as the pins, or hinges, of the Mill.
These stars are thought to be represented by the kings in an unending
succession to the “throne” of the Pole Star.
**Which brings the question: did Ben purposely pass off leadership to
Locke because he knew or suspected that the Wheel would slip its axis
soon? This might also explain why Richard passed leadership to Ben:
neither of them is willing to be the sacrifice. Locke is, and that is
part of what made him “very special”.
thinbluemime
> This brings us to LOST, and the “Frozen Wheel”. It appears to be an
> item of extreme antiquity and is, if not the driving force behind the
> island’s properties, at least the control valve for the energies. The
> Mill would be an item of extreme power, as mentioned by Dr. Chang, and
> also great care would have to be taken to keep it out of the hands of
> those who would exploit it (as Ben said Charles Widmore would). When
> the Wheel was turned by Ben, it shone out a gold light, just as
> Hamlet’s Mill ground out gold for its master. What might happen if the
> Wheel were turned by someone who did not have the protection of the
> island in mind?
>
>
> Many incarnations of the Mill were also seen as the center or axis of
> the world. Mt. Meru of the Buddhists toppled at the time of the
> Buddha’s death, but many other traditions have the center axis of the
> Mill as a post or tree upon which the great king of the age was
> sacrificed to make way for the next.* This transition is not a smooth
> one, and at the end of an age, the Mill will slip off its axis, or
> break a pin. During this time, the world is in chaos, civilizations
> fall. It is at this time that the king is sacrificed to make way for a
> new era. The entity that appeared as Christian Shephard to Locke told
> him that the Wheel “had slipped off its axis” and that only Locke
> could set it right again. Ben could not use the wheel without it
> unhinging because he was no longer the “king”. Locke was, and only his
> sacrifice could set the Island back on its axis.**
>
> **Which brings the question: did Ben purposely pass off leadership to
> Locke because he knew or suspected that the Wheel would slip its axis
> soon? This might also explain why Richard passed leadership to Ben:
> neither of them is willing to be the sacrifice. Locke is, and that is
> part of what made him “very special”.
>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omphalos#Jerusalem
http://www.templemount.org/
I am anxious to see what Locke does when he goes to the Temple.
Non acceptance of the King, requires that the old rituals be continued,
and thus the stone becomes dead weight, a millstone around the neck of
those that reject the i-land messiah.
In that process, to protect the i-land, nuclear, biological and chemical
weapons are developed, which threaten the whole world. One red heifer is
all that stands between the old skool rituals and Armageddon.
Freedom from the rock is only gained by the freedom offered by the Rock.
"Non of this is-real" - John Locke
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_Last_Supper#The_Lost_Supper
gemjack
wrote:
> The
>symbolism of the wheel is also significant, especially since it's
>possible that one of the polar bears on the island turned the Frozen
>Donkey Wheel at some point.
lol!
-gj
tdciago
> lol!
How do you think the DHARMA polar bear skeleton turned up in Tunisia,
with a Hydra collar?
It got there the same way that Ben and Locke did.
gemjack
wrote:
>On Feb 22, 11:15?am, gemjack <geminijackso...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> lol!
>
>How do you think the DHARMA polar bear skeleton turned up in Tunisia,
>with a Hydra collar?
DHARMA experiments being carried out at the Orchid (lostpedia agrees).
The exact nature of which we can't be sure. Far more likely than a
polar bear turning the donkey wheel.
"The Orchid is the name given to a DHARMA Initiative station dedicated
to time travel research, under the guise of being a botanical research
station. The true station is located in an underground chamber beneath
a greenhouse, and draws energy for its experiments from the same
anomalous energy source as the frozen wheel."
The bears were possibly test subjects before the wheel was installed.
But that wheel did look old...
>It got there the same way that Ben and Locke did.
The same principles were at work, that much is obvious.
-gj
tdciago
> DHARMA experiments being carried out at the Orchid (lostpedia agrees).
> The exact nature of which we can't be sure. �Far more likely than a
> polar bear turning the donkey wheel.
I'll give you the most obvious reason it probably did not happen via a
DHARMA experiment:
The collar had metal elements (Lostpedia agrees).
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/File:HydraPolar.jpg
http://www.4815162342.co.uk/images/ep2c.jpg
http://www.approachinglost.com/files/2009/07/42.jpg
CHANG: Now for your own safety and the safety of those around you,
metallic objects must never be placed within the vault.
Think about the rabbit experiment. It went completely wrong. And the
rabbit ended up back where it started, not thousands of miles away.
Considering how badly that went, it's hard to believe that DHARMA
would have decided to experiment with a huge predator, sending it far
back in time *and* space, where it could wreak havoc and could not be
returned. So their expensive test subject would be gone.
They would have had to ship the bear from Hydra on a boat, transport
it to the Orchid station, bring it down on the elevator, get it into
the vault (without any metal), and finally conduct the experiment.
And even then, there's no reason to believe that the vault worked
exactly the same way as the wheel.
We know that the bears escaped from Hydra at some point and swam to
the main island, where at least one of them took up residence in a
cave. By the 1970s, the well had collapsed or been filled in, so Ben
had to blow out a wall in the Orchid to enter the chamber. When he
did that, there was an existing tunnel behind the wall. We don't know
where it led, but my suspicion since the bones were found in Tunisia
is that the polar bear cave led to the FDW chamber. The cold room
would be an attractive spot for a polar bear.
As Charlie pointed out, polar bears are like the Einsteins of the bear
community. It only took them a short time to figure out the multi-
step process of obtaining fish biscuits in their cages. If you've
ever been to a circus, you should have no trouble believing that a
polar bear could push on the wheel, even without purpose. They are
very heavy.
Moreover, I think you're missing the most important point about the
bear turning the wheel, as it relates to this thread. With Polaris as
the North Star, we already have a polar bear figuratively turning a
wheel. "Lost" hints at the same thing happening literally.
tenworld
I've previously
> pointed out the Lakota legend of Fallen Star, whose mother was a
> Lakota woman who married the North Star and went to live with him in
> the heavens. She became pregnant, and while digging up a turnip in
> the sky, opened up a hole and fell to Earth. The mother died after
> giving birth to a son, who was found by some Lakota boys and raised by
> the tribe ("Raised by Another"?). He was named Fallen Star, and after
> he was grown, he returned to the sky to watch over his adoptive family
> on Earth. He figures in many Lakota constellation stories. His
> father, the North Star, so overcome by grief at the loss of his wife,
> became fixed in one place,
slightly off topic, but this also sounds like the source for the
Superman origin.
Tdciago, have you been recruited yet to develop TV shows? I now just
search for your tag on this Usenet
tdciago
> slightly off topic, but this also sounds like the source for the
> Superman origin.
And the Man of Steel has been referenced a few times on the show, both
directly and indirectly. Miles' mother was named Lara, and there was
the similarity of a scientist parent trying to save his baby from a
place that was about to be destroyed.
> Tdciago, have you been recruited yet to develop TV shows? �I now just
> search for your tag on this Usenet
Oh my, I just try to interpret what far more creative and talented
people have put together. But thank you all the same.
gemjack
wrote:
>On Feb 22, 1:47?pm, gemjack <geminijackso...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> DHARMA experiments being carried out at the Orchid (lostpedia agrees).
>> The exact nature of which we can't be sure. ?Far more likely than a
>> polar bear turning the donkey wheel.
>
>I'll give you the most obvious reason it probably did not happen via a
>DHARMA experiment:
>
>The collar had metal elements (Lostpedia agrees).
>http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/File:HydraPolar.jpg
>http://www.4815162342.co.uk/images/ep2c.jpg
>http://www.approachinglost.com/files/2009/07/42.jpg
Nice pictures. In the future you may want to read the actual words:
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Polar_bears/Theories
DHARMA might have used polar bears because they were looking for the
Exit. Sending a bear would greatly increase the chances that they
would get back a report of somebody spotting a polar bear where one
would never expect to encounter one (unless, of course, if the exit
happened to be in the Arctic regions).
This seems to be the most fitting explanation. The polar bears seem to
me to be little more than giant lab rats, not unlike Daniels lab rat
"eloise" which was used in his own time travel experiments, white with
red eyes. It seems likely that they were using the polar bears in
their own experiments. We see in the video that they were using
bunnies, so it reasons to believe that they may have at some point
used the polar bears, which is why the remains of one are discovered
out in the desert, because that's where it ended up, just like Ben and
Lock.
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Polar_bears
"Charlotte Lewis unearthed a polar bear skeleton wearing a leather
collar bearing the Hydra logo in the Tunisian desert in 2004.
("Confirmed Dead") It is highly likely the bear arrived here per
DHARMA experiments being carried out at the Orchid ("There's No Place
Like Home, Part 2") "
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Frozen_wheel
"Charlotte also found the remains of a DHARMA Initiative polar bear in
the Tunisian desert, which likely arrived here as a result of a DHARMA
experiment. ("Confirmed Dead") "
>Moreover, I think you're missing the most important point about the
>bear turning the wheel, as it relates to this thread. With Polaris as
>the North Star, we already have a polar bear figuratively turning a
>wheel. "Lost" hints at the same thing happening literally.
Yes , I get the Polaris-being-an-axis-polar bear references. Still
silly to think they turned the wheel. The theory that the bears were
used to turn the wheel to keep actual people from being sent off the
island is the best (though still weak) case for your argument. Though
your favorite source disagrees with this also:
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Polar_bears/Theories
"While polar bears are strong and can tolerate very low temperatures,
it does not seem that these qualities are very important/required to
turn the Wheel. Locke was badly injured and wasn't wearing anything
warm when he turned the Wheel. Clearly they could have used a more
predictable and less dangerous animal, for example, a donkey."
Why does all this make me want to drink a coke?
-gj
tdciago
> Nice pictures. �In the future you may want to read the actual words: �
The words are written by viewers like you and me, who are giving their
own opinions. Some of them are ludicrous. This is probably the
funniest one:
> DHARMA might have used polar bears because they were looking for the
> Exit. Sending a bear would greatly increase the chances that they
> would get back a report of somebody spotting a polar bear where one
> would never expect to encounter one (unless, of course, if the exit
> happened to be in the Arctic regions).
Yeah, that's a good idea. Send out a predator to god-knows-where and
god-knows-when, and then expect a report about it. Also a lawsuit
when the victims' families find the DHARMA collar on it.
I wonder how that worked out for DHARMA when the polar bear ended up
in ancient Tunisia. Do you think they sent DHARMA a telegram?
:)
The whole notion of DHARMA intentionally using the polar bears *to
turn the wheel* makes no sense whatsoever. The well entrance was
closed up, and the Orchid was built next to the wall where Chang
ordered the drilling stopped. The only reason Ben got into the
chamber was because he blew out the wall and the rock behind it.
DHARMA had no known way to access the FDW chamber after the Orchid was
built. They could not have intentionally used the bears to turn the
wheel; they could only put the bears in the vault. Even the bunny in
the final orientation video was only going to be sent forward in time
very, very briefly via the vault. It wasn't going back in time
hundreds or thousands of years and thousands of miles away.
Those must have been some expensive lab rats. And so easy to replace!
BTW, I only wrote "Lostpedia agrees" as a joke, because that's what
you had written in your own post. You can see the metal on the collar
without the theories.
Now go have a Coke and a smile.
gemjack
wrote:
>On Feb 22, 7:02?pm, gemjack <geminijackso...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Nice pictures. ?In the future you may want to read the actual words: ?
>
>The words are written by viewers like you and me, who are giving their
>own opinions. Some of them are ludicrous. This is probably the
>funniest one:
Don't get me wrong, I don't take LP seriously as answers from reliable
sources or anything.
>> DHARMA might have used polar bears because they were looking for the
>> Exit. Sending a bear would greatly increase the chances that they
>> would get back a report of somebody spotting a polar bear where one
>> would never expect to encounter one (unless, of course, if the exit
>> happened to be in the Arctic regions).
>
>Yeah, that's a good idea. Send out a predator to god-knows-where and
>god-knows-when, and then expect a report about it. Also a lawsuit
>when the victims' families find the DHARMA collar on it.
It does makes sense in the thought that you have to send something
that would get noticed. You couldn't send a hamster.
>I wonder how that worked out for DHARMA when the polar bear ended up
>in ancient Tunisia. Do you think they sent DHARMA a telegram?
That's just silly. A polar bear would never have the money for a
telegram.
>The whole notion of DHARMA intentionally using the polar bears *to
>turn the wheel* makes no sense whatsoever. The well entrance was
>closed up, and the Orchid was built next to the wall where Chang
>ordered the drilling stopped. The only reason Ben got into the
>chamber was because he blew out the wall and the rock behind it.
>DHARMA had no known way to access the FDW chamber after the Orchid was
>built. They could not have intentionally used the bears to turn the
>wheel; they could only put the bears in the vault. Even the bunny in
>the final orientation video was only going to be sent forward in time
>very, very briefly via the vault. It wasn't going back in time
>hundreds or thousands of years and thousands of miles away.
I completely agree (within the confines of the story as we know it).
But didn't you suggest they *did* turn the wheel (which is the only
point I had)?
And was it Cuse that said in some promo that Dharma didn't know about
the wheel when the Orchid was built (not that it matters)?
>
>Those must have been some expensive lab rats. And so easy to replace!
>
>BTW, I only wrote "Lostpedia agrees" as a joke, because that's what
>you had written in your own post. You can see the metal on the collar
>without the theories.
I don't follow. LP agrees that they had collars on? Perhaps the
metal caused problems during the experiment? My thoughts-an oversight
on behalf of the writers.
>Now go have a Coke and a smile.
It's dark here, I'm drinking whiskey.
-gj
Gregory E. Garland
@x9g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>, tdc...@aol.com says...
>
>
> Yeah, that's a good idea. Send out a predator to god-knows-where and
> god-knows-when, and then expect a report about it. Also a lawsuit
> when the victims' families find the DHARMA collar on it.
>
Assuming they bother to explain it, I'm going with it having something
to do with Charles Widmore; perhaps it is related to why he was exiled.
Charlotte, who found the bear, worked for Widmore; it was after she
found it that Widmore had remote cameras set up to constantly monitor
the exit point.
--
Gregory E. Garland - Alive, occupying space, and exerting gravitational
force
tdciago
> That's just silly. �A polar bear would never have the money for a
> telegram.
Damn, you're right. He would've had to use a carrier pigeon. I won't
even discuss the unspeakable things the bear had to do to get the bird
to make that long trip.
> I completely agree (within the confines of the story as we know it).
> But didn't you suggest they *did* turn the wheel (which is the only
> point I had)? �
Yes, *one* bear that we know of, but only as an accident of finding
its way to the chamber through the polar bear cave, after the bears
had already escaped from Hydra and swam to the main island. I just
don't think that DHARMA had the bear turn the wheel as some kind of
experiment.
Although it's fun to think of Chang giving the bear directions: "Just
go about a half mile through the cave, make a left at the fork, climb
down the two ladders, and give that ol' wheel a good hard push.
There's some fresh salmon in it for you at the other end."
And then the bear said, "See that skeleton over there? That's the
last guy who tried to boss me around."
> And was it Cuse that said in some promo that Dharma didn't know about
> the wheel when the Orchid was built (not that it matters)?
Right, they didn't know. Chang saw a sonar image of a thing that
looked like half a wheel when they were drilling, but didn't know what
it was, or its purpose.
> I don't follow. �LP agrees that they had collars on? �Perhaps the
> metal caused problems during the experiment? �My thoughts-an oversight
> on behalf of the writers.
No, LP agrees that the collars were partially made of metal, which I
pointed out would have been a big no-no in the vault. Of course, the
DHARMA scientists may not have been the sharpest crayons in the box,
and for all we know, they blew up one of those newfangled microwave
ovens in the breakroom once a week.
> It's dark here, I'm drinking whiskey.
MacCutcheon?
tdciago
> Assuming they bother to explain it, I'm going with it having something
> to do with Charles Widmore; perhaps it is related to why he was exiled.
> Charlotte, who found the bear, worked for Widmore; it was after she
> found it that Widmore had remote cameras set up to constantly monitor
> the exit point.
Ben also exited there a couple of years before Locke did, and killed a
couple of Bedouins, which would have pinned down the exact location
more than the bear skeleton.
Shevek
> On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:19:24 -0800 (PST), tdciago <tdc...@aol.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Feb 22, 1:47?pm, gemjack <geminijackso...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> DHARMA experiments being carried out at the Orchid (lostpedia agrees).
>>> The exact nature of which we can't be sure. ?Far more likely than a
>>> polar bear turning the donkey wheel.
>> I'll give you the most obvious reason it probably did not happen via a
>> DHARMA experiment:
>>
>> The collar had metal elements (Lostpedia agrees).
>> http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/File:HydraPolar.jpg
>> http://www.4815162342.co.uk/images/ep2c.jpg
>> http://www.approachinglost.com/files/2009/07/42.jpg
>
>
> Nice pictures. In the future you may want to read the actual words:
>
> http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Polar_bears/Theories
> DHARMA might have used polar bears because they were looking for the
> Exit. Sending a bear would greatly increase the chances that they
> would get back a report of somebody spotting a polar bear where one
> would never expect to encounter one (unless, of course, if the exit
> happened to be in the Arctic regions).
>
Couldn't they use penguins? They are a lot cheaper and not an endangered
species.
--
Shevek
rwgibson13
> gemjack escribió:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:19:24 -0800 (PST), tdciago <tdci...@aol.com>
Yeah, but are penguins the Einsteins of the avian world?
RWG (and they eat fish instead of fish biscuits)
Gregory E. Garland
33g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>, tdc...@aol.com says...
The Tunisians were dead; they weren't telling anyone anything. Perhaps
the their murder was what inspired the others to start digging around in
the area, and the polar bear remains mark the exact spot. Charles
Widmore would certainly had the means to keep track of such strange
occurrences, and send investigators like Charlotte to check them out.
Darren Delgado
> In article <431505db-7104-4b85-b28e-cc5f85ef5964@
>
>
>
> > On Feb 22, 11:57?pm, "Gregory E. Garland" <g...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > > Assuming they bother to explain it, I'm going with it having something
> > > to do with Charles Widmore; perhaps it is related to why he was exiled.
> > > Charlotte, who found the bear, worked for Widmore; it was after she
> > > found it that Widmore had remote cameras set up to constantly monitor
> > > the exit point.
>
> > Ben also exited there a couple of years before Locke did, and killed a
> > couple of Bedouins, which would have pinned down the exact location
> > more than the bear skeleton.
>
> The Tunisians were dead; they weren't telling anyone anything. Perhaps
> the their murder was what inspired the others to start digging around in
> the area, and the polar bear remains mark the exact spot. Charles
> Widmore would certainly had the means to keep track of such strange
> occurrences, and send investigators like Charlotte to check them out.
Nope. Charlotte found the polar bear remains before leaving on the
freighter to go to the Island. Ben murdered those guys well after the
freighter was already at the Island, in fact not too long before it
exploded.
Jim Gysin
tdciago <tdc...@aol.com> sent the following on Mon, 22 Feb 2010
21:01:24 -0800 (PST):
> On Feb 22, 11:39?pm, gemjack <geminijackso...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > It's dark here, I'm drinking whiskey.
>
> MacCutcheon?
That would be a whisky. A whiskey would be something like Maker's Mark
and the like.
--
Jim Gysin
Waukesha, WI
Gregory E. Garland
@w12g2000vbj.googlegroups.com>, darren...@hotmail.com says...
Actually now that I think about it; when Ben turned up in Tunisia, it
was more than a year after the crash and well after the freighter went
boom. So maybe after Ben showed up Widmore realized that just having a
few armed nomads on site to snatch anyone who showed up at the exit
wasn't good enough. Ben just used his guards horses to escape, and
Widmore went to a more high-tech system.
Babiole Oubli�e
"Gregory E. Garland" <ge...@earthlink.net> a �crit dans le message de news:
MPG.25ed2a3ab...@216.168.3.70...
> In article <92ea246b-fe6d-43a0-a3e5-23d100131de0
> @x9g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>, tdc...@aol.com says...
>>
>>
>> Yeah, that's a good idea. Send out a predator to god-knows-where and
>> god-knows-when, and then expect a report about it. Also a lawsuit
>> when the victims' families find the DHARMA collar on it.
>>
>
> Assuming they bother to explain it, I'm going with it having something
> to do with Charles Widmore; perhaps it is related to why he was exiled.
> Charlotte, who found the bear, worked for Widmore; it was after she
> found it that Widmore had remote cameras set up to constantly monitor
> the exit point.
>
That's right : they said Charles was banned because he had an affair with an
"outsider", but there was no specific mention that it was a human being !
Maybe he secretly went to the Orchid station to live his passion with his
favorite polar bear, and had the very bad idea of attaching the bear to the
donkey wheel... Then, poof ! the bear disappeared and a desperate Charles
ran naked into the jungle, Ben saw him and knew he had found his "loophole"
to become the new leader, et voil�.