Gunny's chevrons...
JoAnna Birchwood
Has the prop/costume department ever heard of roll-pressing the sleeves of
military costumes so the chevrons look right?
Has anybody on that show ever been in, or known anyone who was in the
military?
I think not.... =;-]
Matt
For the record, a Google search turned up two references that indicate
Donald P. Bellisario served four years in the United States Marine
Corps.
JoAnna Birchwood
Matt <TarHee...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ad9dded5.02022...@posting.google.com...
Prsphone
Nic
The Most Deceptive Words Ever Spoken.....
"Dude, it's only one weekend a month, two weeks a year!
Woodrow Call :
"It ain't against the law for your to work, Augustus!"
Agustus McRae :
"It's against my law~~
JoAnna Birchwood
there are no usmc lawyers in navy jag, there are no usmc doctors, there are
no usmc medics... those are all from the us navy.
the usmc is a child of the us navy which is the parent process... the usmc
is not an independent and autonomous service.
Prsphone <prsp...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020224004704...@mb-cr.aol.com...
Mark Taylor
<joan...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> d00d:
>
> there are no usmc lawyers in navy jag, there are no usmc doctors, there are
> no usmc medics... those are all from the us navy.
My my my. Well at least you are right about one thing-USMC is not a
separate service (like the Army or Air Force). Last I checked there is
no rule that prohibits or limits the USMC from having lawyers, medics
or doctors. Now percentage wise it is probably accurate to say most
doctors and lawyers would be USN rather than USMC (Marine medics may be
trained by USN but they are Marines). However nothing stops a Marine
from being a doctor or lawyer within the service. And if we follow your
line of reasoning, there cannot be USMC pilots either since they all
would be USN. But of course there are USMC pilots but that I suppose is
another show. :-)
> the usmc is a child of the us navy which is the parent process... the usmc
Somehow I doubt the USMC would think themselves as a child of the USN.
They think the other way around concerning the Navy! :-) In most navies
of the world, the marines are always a component and not a separate
service and never ever to be confused with the army.
--
Mark E. Taylor
titanicnewschannel.com
news...@titanicnewschannel.com
Radioguy
time honored family philosophy of "I can pick on my brother, but you can't"
They call each other names like Jar Heads and Uncle Sam's Misgiuided Children,
or anchor clankers and squids. No problem. Let a disruption happen in any military
establishment off of the base, the Marines and Navy are tight against any of the other
the other branches or the VC (Vicious Civilians) ... the Coasties being neutral cousins :)
JoAnna Birchwood
specific slots in the various units are what control whether a doctor is a
major or lt cmdr. there may be marine officers with legal degrees but they
do not serve in navy jag and they have no jag of their own. that's why demi
moore and tom cruise wear navy costume when go to bust jack nicholson's
chops in 'a few good men'.
it is the way the usmc is structured and why those restrictions exist is
unknown to me...
kinda like nato awacs, we had portuguese af weapon controller billets at the
main ops base but they were all filled by other nations since the portuguese
air force did not have any such officers and never sent any to the mob.
Mark Taylor <anji...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:240220020756031981%anji...@aol.com...
Ronnie Wexler
(inquiring civilians want to know...)
Ronnie
In article <u7j2h93...@corp.supernews.com>, "JoAnna Birchwood"
<joan...@hotmail.com> wrote:
--
Jack Bagley
movie -- played by Kevin Bacon -- a Marine captain? And the judge a Marine
colonel -- who insisted on being addressed as "Your Honor"? Sounds like
there are Marines assigned to JAG...
All other considerations aside, I doubt very seriously that a show like JAG
would be that wrong in its presentations week after week without someone at
DoD saying, "Whoa, fellows...there are no Marines at JAG." Bellisario has
the full cooperation of the Navy; surely they'd clue him in if his basic
premises were that far off base.
--
Jack
Check out the finest in independent science fiction novels at Fine Line
Publishing:
http://www.Fine-Linepc.com/AC.html
http://www.Fine-Linepc.com/TWLB.html
"JoAnna Birchwood" <joan...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:u7j2h93...@corp.supernews.com...
Belinda Holman
serve as JAG. Now I realize this is TV, but that's usually something you
avoid making up. Does anyone recall the name that Mac spouts off? I'd go
look for JAG history websites, but I'm tired.
Bree
JoAnna Birchwood
this seems to be an in-house all usmc sja, not really part of the navy
jag...
Ronnie Wexler <rwe...@tias.com> wrote in message
news:rwexler-2402...@192.168.2.97...
Mark Taylor
<joan...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> i am saying the billets on the manning document that assigns personnel to
> specific slots in the various units are what control whether a doctor is a
> major or lt cmdr.
Sorry no. What determines a Major from a Lt. Cmdr is service
designation. They may have the equivalence in terms of rank, but do not
switch. A USMC major is never called Lt Commander and likewise a USN Lt
Commander is never called major. This does not change if a Marine is
dipatched to serve in a Marine unit or a Navy person sent to Marine
unit.
there may be marine officers with legal degrees but they
> do not serve in navy jag and they have no jag of their own. that's why demi
> moore and tom cruise wear navy costume when go to bust jack nicholson's
> chops in 'a few good men'.
If I remember correctly both Cruise and Moore's characters were both
USN, neither were USMC. Nicholson's character was a Marine (a colonel
as I recall). However as I recall the prosecutor (played by Kevin
Bacon) was USMC (but it has been a while so I might be wrong on
this).No one will ever forget "You can't handle the truth!" :-)
But to the main point. Should a USMC officer be either an attorney or
medical doctor, there rank designation is not changed when they serve
with USN personnel in assigned duty stations. Unless of course the
unthinkable happens-Marine decides to join the USN. As the French would
say, sacre bleu!
>
> kinda like nato awacs, we had portuguese af weapon controller billets at the
> main ops base but they were all filled by other nations since the portuguese
> air force did not have any such officers and never sent any to the mob.
That is a different operational structure involved (NATO) because you
have other nations personnel involved whose rank structures may differ
in many respects. So to make sure they are properly treated, they may
have to have a temporary designation in order to make it easier
(basically to know whether you need to salute him or he needs to salute
you) for others to know where the fit in the chain of command.
For instance the Belgian Air Force has a rank of Kapitien-Commandant
which is placed between a Captain and Major. So if this guy goes out on
a Nato exercise, he might be called a Captain to avoid confusion. Same
thing goes for the NCO ranks as well. (A Belgian 1ste sergeant-majoor
is roughly approximate to 1st Sgt).
Ronnie Wexler
been JAG:
http://www.usmc.mil/genbios2.nsf/biographies/00C59A6A890060CF85256AB9005461A5?opendocument
Ronnie
In article <Opie8.14481$0C1.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
"Belinda Holman" <rbho...@usit.net> wrote:
--
Ronnie Wexler
Air Force and Marines all have different JAGs.
Ronnie
In article <u7jcv0e...@corp.supernews.com>, "JoAnna Birchwood"
<joan...@hotmail.com> wrote:
--
JoAnna Birchwood
those were staff judge advocate people, local to the main base they are not
really part of navy JAG.
there are 2 trial courts using joint navy-usmc staffs under navy jag
http://www.jag.navy.mil/html/headquarters.htm and there are staff judge
advocates http://192.156.19.115/ at the marine base/air station level but
there are no marine lawyers at the judge advocate general hq level...
which is where harm and mac actually work in the show, but they would not in
real life.
all this harm you prosecute and mac you defend is total crap, defense in
front of a courts-martial is done by an area defense counsel totally
independent and completely outside of the regular chain of command of both
the convening authority and the hapless wretch about to be convicted...
there are no usmc chaplains either, they are all navy...
once again, the usmc is not a real separate military service, it is
basically naval infantry. [yes, i know it has tanks and artillery and its
own air wing as well, but the bottom line is that the CNO calls all the
shots and the CMC reports to him, yes sir, no sir, 3 bags full, sir...
and bellisario who has never heard of NIS ["We will prove you are a filthy
homosexual and that's why you blew up #2 Turret on the Wisconsin"] is
credible as to the structure of navy JAG?
the same guy who had harm fly a stolen mig-29 slow and low all the way to a
northern siberan base thousands of miles away, with no refueling. AFAIK the
mig-29 carries about 2 hours worth of fuel in the best case scenario and
that ain't slow and low...
I DON'T THINK SO!
Jack Bagley <jba...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:u7jbrp5...@corp.supernews.com...
> To use your own example, "A Few Good Men," wasn't the prosecutor in that
> movie -- played by Kevin Bacon -- a Marine captain? And the judge a
Marine
> colonel -- >
> All other considerations aside, I doubt very seriously that a show like
JoAnna Birchwood
Belinda Holman <rbho...@usit.net> wrote in message
news:Opie8.14481$0C1.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
JoAnna Birchwood
i did not mean to indicate that marine majors and naval lt.cmdrs' changed
rank and title when they moved between services.
what i meant was that the navy manning document specifies that all naval
doctors, jag, and chaplains be actual naval officers, not marines.
Mark Taylor <anji...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:240220021953306669%anji...@aol.com...
Mark Taylor
<joan...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> what i meant was that the navy manning document specifies that all naval
> doctors, jag, and chaplains be actual naval officers, not marines.
Glad you made that clear! :-) While certainly in many parts of the
service you only have staff consisting of USMC or USN, I believe JAG is
one of those combined areas where officers from both can serve (I
believe that same would be that for medicine as well).
Mark Taylor
<joan...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> once again, the usmc is not a real separate military service, it is
> basically naval infantry. [yes, i know it has tanks and artillery and its
> own air wing as well, but the bottom line is that the CNO calls all the
> shots and the CMC reports to him, yes sir, no sir, 3 bags full, sir...
I do not think anyone here or certainly in the television show has ever
advanced that claim (that the USMC is a separate service). The USMC
has, since its inception, been part of the Department of the Navy. They
do though have a separate function from USN and have their own command
structure with a Commandant. And that Commandant sits on the Joint
Chiefs of Staff.
>
> and bellisario who has never heard of NIS ["We will prove you are a filthy
> homosexual and that's why you blew up #2 Turret on the Wisconsin"] is
> credible as to the structure of navy JAG?
Now you have to ask yourself, off the cuff, how many people in the
civilian world know about NIS? Bellisario I believe was once a Marine
and I doubt he ever encountered it.
However this show gets a lot of help from USN. They like the show and
give it a lot of technical assistance (and locations to shoot). We can
sit here all day and night and argue whether JAG really is authentic in
its depiction of JAG operations (no one says it is since it is
entertainment). You can wrap yourself up in knots or simply enjoy the
show or not.
JoAnna Birchwood
naval officers [the superior and parent service] and that is not permitted.
during ww2 army air corps did not try grunts since they were simply an
attachment of guys with planes serving the whims of the army cavalry,
infantry and armor. but the grunt generals sure as shit got to try billy
mitchell and drum him out of the [air] corps...
just like joint interservice commands do not hold their own courts-martial,
the offender is returned to his parent service for discipline.
in the usaf you would not see line fighter pilots being tried by log wing or
maintenance pukes, there would only be line officers and other pilots on the
panel... both judge and everyone else in the room would be blue-suit.
the cno keeps the usmc on a short leash, if they were able to duplicate all
staff functions the navy now provides they would start clamoring to become a
separate service which has been floated before but is quickly shot down by
all the services since the army wants the usmc armor and infantry, the usaf
wants all the usmc helos and fighters and the navy sure as shit does not
want to lose it's own army with its own air force...
Mark Taylor <anji...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:240220022334282888%anji...@aol.com...
JoAnna Birchwood
the last 30 years or so.
can you see the joint chief of staff asking the CMC if his boys can do
something, ignoring the CNO?
he would ask the CNO first who would turn to the CMC and repeat the question
putting the navy spin on it, if it were different from what the joint chief
had in mind.
Mark Taylor <anji...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:250220020006590204%anji...@aol.com...
> They do though have a separate function from USN and have their own
command
> structure with a Commandant.
who reports to the CNO.
>
> Now you have to ask yourself, off the cuff, how many people in the
> civilian world know about NIS? Bellisario I believe was once a Marine
> and I doubt he ever encountered it.
uncle sam's misguided children are very much aware and afraid of the NIS,
since the NIS motto is 'Bring me men... [who think they are girls].
Marines are very popular in gay bars since they have nice firm bodies, and
will do anything for free drinks and a ride in a nice convertible out to the
desert. Remember Randy Kraft?
the NIS spends a lot time chasing and entrapping lebians in the navy and
queers in the corps. look at the discharge rates for homosexuality in the
navy versus the other services. they don't seem to have any time for Chief
Walkers of this world for some reason.
> However this show gets a lot of help from USN. They like the show and
> give it a lot of technical assistance (and locations to shoot).
thank god for that, watching tired-ass outtakes from 17 years ago in top gun
and using Oxnard aft [closed] for an air/military base was getting real old.
bet they won't do another story on incompetent female carrier pilots now.
that topic is strictly off limits in the surface and air wings of the navy
for some reason.
i think chick action shows [for that is what jag really is] should be
limited to 100 episodes or 5 years, after that coming up with any kind of
new plots gets difficult. and how much more getting in touch with their
'feelings' and blubbering can we take?
now if only we can get mick, bud and harriet into a helo and crash it off
the barrier reef with no life rafts and watch the great whites feast, now i
would even tape that show to watch over and over again...
MCsnapshot
He still is a Marine! He is, more accurately, a former active-duty Marine or a
former Marine Reservist.
"Once a Marine Always a Marine!" At least that's what all the Marines tell me.
"Marines...they walk like soldiers, talk like sailors and beat the hell out of
both of them." (quote by a former Marine Reservist)
Gary
JoAnna Birchwood
marine: hey, sailor i like your dress!
'sailor': eat me completely... leaning back in the back seat of the
convertible parked behind the gay bar in hollywood.
MCsnapshot <mcsna...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020225205119...@mb-ms.aol.com...
Ronnie Wexler
continuously bitch at?
In article <u7lhue2...@corp.supernews.com>, "JoAnna Birchwood"
<joan...@hotmail.com> wrote:
--
Ronnie Wexler
Mark Taylor
Mark Taylor
<joan...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> nope, otherwise you end up with marines [a subordinate service] prosecuting
> naval officers [the superior and parent service] and that is not permitted.
> during ww2 army air corps did not try grunts since they were simply an
> attachment of guys with planes ......
Ah the rants of a troll.
Mark Taylor
<joan...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> and the CMC sits on the joint chiefs as the lapdog of the CNO and only in
> the last 30 years or so. can you see the joint chief of staff asking the CMC if his boys can do
> something, ignoring the CNO?
Well it is pretty obvious you are not hear to discuss JAG and you have
some other, as they say, "issues." So like other trolls who venture out
now and again, the killfile is always at the ready. I would advise to
do the same.
JoAnna Birchwood
further to left field and i kept responding to your carping about how Jag
doesn't have to be real, but the Navy loves it anyway and keeps helping keep
it real. etc.
btw, it is not that someone is a troll, [noun] but performs trolling [to
troll, verb]
it is quite obvious to me you are trolling and i wonder if you really are
male despite that butch sounding name, as much as you defend a notorious
chick show such as Jag... =;-]
Mark Taylor <anji...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:250220021839594474%anji...@aol.com...
JoAnna Birchwood
Mark Taylor <anji...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:250220021832045911%anji...@aol.com...
JoAnna Birchwood
while she whips me.
most of my 'bitching' is at trolls in this group who know nothing of the
navy and how it really dispenses justice. just ask cmdr. loyd bucher and the
capt and tao of the uss stark, i disremember their names right now.
Ronnie Wexler <rwe...@tias.com> wrote in message
news:rwexler-2502...@192.168.2.97...
Mark Taylor
<joan...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> i was quite ready to discuss Jag, you were the one who kept drawing me out
> further to left field and i kept responding to your carping about how Jag
> doesn't have to be real, but the Navy loves it anyway and keeps helping keep
> it real. etc.
Thank you for your entertaining and informative post.
Mark Taylor
<joan...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> nice to see you rebutted my facts so neatly...
Thank you for your entertaining and informative post.
--
Mark Taylor
> Ronnie Wexler <rwe...@tias.com> wrote in message
> news:rwexler-2502...@192.168.2.97...
> > Why in hell do you watch it? Do you seriously need something to
> > continuously bitch at?
Ronnie, your wasting your time. Ignore the poster (use a killfile or
junk filter).
Bob Rudolph
"JoAnna Birchwood" <joan...@hotmail.com> wrote ...
> then he would be the first to know there are no usmc jag lawyers...
Maybe there WEREN'T -
and maybe there AREN'T -
but nothing says that there can never be any.
Rich Cunningham
Corpsman. They train with the Marines, they travel with the Marines, and
they take care of the Marines, but the are US Navy Sailors period. I spent 6
years in the Navy, and currently work with two ex-corpsman, both of whom
were stationed at Camp Pendleton in California. There are also no Marine
doctors, they are Navy doctors, attached to the Medical Corps.
"Mark Taylor" <anji...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:240220020756031981%anji...@aol.com...
> In article <u7h1j7g...@corp.supernews.com>, JoAnna Birchwood
> <joan...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > d00d:
> >
> > there are no usmc lawyers in navy jag, there are no usmc doctors, there
are
> > no usmc medics... those are all from the us navy.
>
> My my my. Well at least you are right about one thing-USMC is not a
> separate service (like the Army or Air Force). Last I checked there is
> no rule that prohibits or limits the USMC from having lawyers, medics
> or doctors. Now percentage wise it is probably accurate to say most
> doctors and lawyers would be USN rather than USMC (Marine medics may be
> trained by USN but they are Marines). However nothing stops a Marine
> from being a doctor or lawyer within the service. And if we follow your
> line of reasoning, there cannot be USMC pilots either since they all
> would be USN. But of course there are USMC pilots but that I suppose is
> another show. :-)
>
>
> > the usmc is a child of the us navy which is the parent process... the
usmc
>
> Somehow I doubt the USMC would think themselves as a child of the USN.
> They think the other way around concerning the Navy! :-) In most navies
> of the world, the marines are always a component and not a separate
> service and never ever to be confused with the army.
Spuds
> In article <u7h1j7g...@corp.supernews.com>, JoAnna Birchwood
> <joan...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> d00d:
>>
>> there are no usmc lawyers in navy jag, there are no usmc doctors,
>> there are no usmc medics... those are all from the us navy.
>
> My my my. Well at least you are right about one thing-USMC is not a
> separate service (like the Army or Air Force). Last I checked there
> is no rule that prohibits or limits the USMC from having lawyers,
> medics or doctors. Now percentage wise it is probably accurate to say
> most doctors and lawyers would be USN rather than USMC (Marine medics
> may be trained by USN but they are Marines). However nothing stops a
> Marine from being a doctor or lawyer within the service. And if we
> follow your line of reasoning, there cannot be USMC pilots either
> since they all would be USN. But of course there are USMC pilots but
> that I suppose is another show. :-)
>
>
>> the usmc is a child of the us navy which is the parent process... the
>> usmc
>
> Somehow I doubt the USMC would think themselves as a child of the USN.
> They think the other way around concerning the Navy! :-) In most
> navies of the world, the marines are always a component and not a
> separate service and never ever to be confused with the army.
>
Who is this guy? I Have 20 years in the Navy as a Hospital Corpsman, and 7
of that has been spent with the Marines. There are NO Marine medics,
although we do train them to take careof themsleves and their buddies, thus
the term we us is "Buddy Aid." There are Marine lawyers, but I have not
personally seen the two services working together in the same office, and
further, LOOK at the Marine Corps Seal... "THE DEPARTMENT OF THE NAVY" is
right on it. The Marines were formed for 2 big reasons, keep the sailors
in line aboard ship, providing protection to its officers, and, be the
"fighting force" of the Navy.
We support them in all sorts of ways. Their fundign even comes through the
Navy to this day, and, we all work together as a team. Anytime you hear
the Marines are in a hotspot, NAVY Corpsmen, Doctors, and, dental and
religious personnel are there with them.
I sure didn't join the Marines or know anything about this aspect of the
job when I joined the Navy as a Corpsman back in 1982, but I am proud as
hell of the fact that I have served with them, deployed, and fought with
them by my side. I can also say that these 7 years of service with the
Marines have been more rewarding and professionally productive to me and my
career than a single day of any of my "Navy" duty Stations.
OooRah!
Echo6Bravo
Camp Pendleton
--
______________
"Whiners will be kill-filed..."
Spuds
news:u7j2h93...@corp.supernews.com:
> i am saying the billets on the manning document that assigns personnel
> to specific slots in the various units are what control whether a
> doctor is a major or lt cmdr.
Uh, NO, they will always be a LCDR (not lt cmdr) Medical personnel are
Naval Staff Corps Officers.
there may be marine officers with legal
> degrees but they do not serve in navy jag and they have no jag of
> their own. that's why demi moore and tom cruise wear navy costume
> when go to bust jack nicholson's chops in 'a few good men'.
Yes, the USMC has it's own legal department.
>
> it is the way the usmc is structured and why those restrictions exist
> is unknown to me...
Exactly, along with the lack of knowledge of the USN/USMC structure.
Spuds
> see: http://192.156.19.115/
>
> this seems to be an in-house all usmc sja, not really part of the navy
> jag...
Your right, there is.
Spuds
> In article <u7jghqr...@corp.supernews.com>, JoAnna Birchwood
> <joan...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> what i meant was that the navy manning document specifies that all naval
>> doctors, jag, and chaplains be actual naval officers, not marines.
>
> Glad you made that clear! :-) While certainly in many parts of the
> service you only have staff consisting of USMC or USN, I believe JAG is
> one of those combined areas where officers from both can serve (I
> believe that same would be that for medicine as well).
>
Nope, no Marine Medical at all. Navy Corpsmen provide that, and have in
every battle and war since the the inception of both services.
"someone said yes, and I still want to punch them in the mouth."
A quote about the unknown person that started all this interservice
cooperation that to this day still exists between both services.
Spuds
> nope, otherwise you end up with marines [a subordinate service]
> prosecuting naval officers [the superior and parent service] and that
> is not permitted. during ww2 army air corps did not try grunts since
> they were simply an attachment of guys with planes serving the whims
> of the army cavalry, infantry and armor. but the grunt generals sure
> as shit got to try billy mitchell and drum him out of the [air]
> corps...
>
> just like joint interservice commands do not hold their own
> courts-martial, the offender is returned to his parent service for
> discipline.
>
> in the usaf you would not see line fighter pilots being tried by log
> wing or maintenance pukes, there would only be line officers and other
> pilots on the panel... both judge and everyone else in the room would
> be blue-suit.
>
> the cno keeps the usmc on a short leash, if they were able to
> duplicate all staff functions the navy now provides they would start
> clamoring to become a separate service which has been floated before
> but is quickly shot down by all the services since the army wants the
> usmc armor and infantry, the usaf wants all the usmc helos and
> fighters and the navy sure as shit does not want to lose it's own army
> with its own air force...
>
You are totally lost about this whole thing aren't you....
Spuds
news:a5hbp2$7gbmn$1...@ID-47136.news.dfncis.de:
Not without a DD214 from the Marine Corps, and joining the Navy. Look at
the MANMED, the Manual of the Medical Department spells out exactly how,
who, how many, and what fors of the Navy Medical Dept that go to support
the Marine Corps.
JoAnna Birchwood
care to refute any of the points i made esp. about the other services very
willing to abolish the usmc?
"Spuds" <Sp...@bloom-county-rehab.com> wrote in message
news:Xns91D69DE925C...@68.6.19.6...
> "JoAnna Birchwood" <joan...@hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:u7lgf55...@corp.supernews.com:
>
> >
JoAnna Birchwood
navy.usmc?
"Spuds" <Sp...@bloom-county-rehab.com> wrote in message
news:Xns91D69CCFA65...@68.6.19.6...
> "JoAnna Birchwood" <joan...@hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:u7j2h93...@corp.supernews.com:
>
Mark Taylor
Yep, sure is. Really this person is just a troll passing through. Best
to ignore or killfile.
MCsnapshot
of that has been spent with the Marines. There are NO Marine medics, >>
Absolutely correct!
They are just Navy "medics" that wear Marine uniforms!
My uncle was a corpsman in the 4th Marine Division back in the day when the
rating was "Pharmacist Mate." I have a couple of photos of him wearing a
Marine "Charlie" uniform (including the USMC emblem on the lapels and caps)
with his Navy rating on the sleeves.
Gary
Spuds
news:20020320130601...@mb-ci.aol.com:
We still have that option today, but few of us actually "go Marine Reg" and
elect to wear their service uniforms, but we all wear the Camoflauge
utilities on a daily basis.
Spuds
> it is the way the usmc is structured
Exactly,
> and why those restrictions exist is unknown to me...
the lack of knowledge of the USN/USMC structure.
Spuds
news:u9frbar...@corp.supernews.com:
> nah, i just hate the navy...
>
> care to refute any of the points i made esp. about the other services
> very willing to abolish the usmc?
>
Well, let's see...
1) The Army has always had a hard time understanding how so few Marines can
out do a Regiment of Soldiers.
2) The Marines have historically done what just occured in Afghanistan.
"The Proud" go in and secure and establish operating bases, then turn them
over to the Army.
3) History will show that the Army has lost more Marine-established
fortifications in war, than the Army has established themselves and then
the Marines go back in and take control again, only to turn it back over to
the Army. Numerous instances in Viet Nam.
4) The Army has for years, tried to show that they could do what the
Marines do, yet after those many years, in the Persian Gulf war, the
Marines landed in hours ready to fight and the Army took over 3 months to
fully establish a fighting force that was combat ready.
5) Guess who reorginized parts of their service to better follow the more
successful design of the Marine Corps.
6) The Army successfully conducting 2 complete 1800-2000 man combat ready
forces that include a ground element, an armored support element,
artillery, recon, motor transportation and air combat support, and full
medical and logistical support, and keeping them on the prowl ready to
respond anywhere in the world within days, is impossible with the
logisitical requirements that the Army has established for itself. the
Navy and Marines do that 24/7/365 aboard ships, and have a third stationed
in Okinawa ready to respond by air or ship within hours to anywhere in the
Pacific. These Marine Expeditionary Units (MEUs) are deployed in rotation
for 6 months, return for 4 months, begin the training cycle after that, and
deploy 14 months later. On average they will be away from home over 300
days of deployment and training in just two years. Show me ANY army unit
that does that.
7) The Marines have based their combat mission and role on the sole
rifleman and 4 man fireteam concept. The Army has structured theirs around
the combat battalion and companies as the smallest unit.
8) Leadership. In the Marine Corps, leadership is not only expected, but
demanded along with performance, with leaders being as junior in paygrade
as an E-3/LCPL, making decisions in combat based upon their mission and
the mission guidance from command. In the Army, you seldom will see any
direct combat leadership decision or action taken without the consent of a
higher authority above E-5/SGT. Now, with that in mind, a Marine LCPL can
give the command to return fire once the rules of engagement(ROE) have been
met or exceeded to react. The Army corporal would have to request
permission to engage if he did not have a higher command authority to
approve his actions.
9) In the Navy and Marines, you are trained to make decisions based on
support of the mission. Decisions made in this regard are not
questionable. As an E-6, I make decisions daily, and those decisions are
reinforced by my higher authority, even though I may not have counsulted
them in making them, because they were made "in support of the mission" and
I assure you that even my newest and most junior have a full understanding
of the mission before I even put them in the position of preparing for
combat. Only in my job with the Marine Corps can an E-2 (HA) Corpsman tell
a Marine officer that something can't occur or take place due to his
decisions in support of his mission, and they will not be questioned.
10) Lastly, the Marines rifleman's mission is "to close with and destroy"
the enemy. The Navy Corpsman's mission is to keep them healthy so they can
fight, and fix them so that they can continue to fight. Funny thing, we
tend to forget which of us is there to support when it comes to combat.
you'll see over 20 Medals of Honor given to Navy Corpsmen for actions in
combat with their Marines. No other single group in all the services can
tout that. Marines have given their lifes to save us, and we have had our
own give theirs to save their Marines. I should know, I have the Purple
Heart to show for it, after taking two rounds WHILE treating a hit Marine
in the Gulf War. And I still serve with them.
EEERRRRR!
Wow, that was fun <grin>
The Air Farce, yes, Farce, doesn't even rate a debate...less than 1% of
their numbers are actually ever going to see any REAL up close GROUND
combat. Their pilots and PJs I have a great respect for, especially the
PJs.
I once, punched an USAF SSGT out in KKMC during the Gulf War, just because
he was joking about how he was safe at his little base in Riyadh, and how
he would get to go home a war hero and not have a chance of getting hurt,
unlike those of us who joined the Marines and Navy Hospital Corps. He had
the balls to call us dumb for not joining the air farce. I changed his
point of view...
And one piece of advice...if you want a REAL understanding of the Marines,
read Tom Clancy's Book "Marine."
> "Spuds" <Sp...@bloom-county-rehab.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns91D69DE925C...@68.6.19.6...
>> "JoAnna Birchwood" <joan...@hotmail.com> wrote in
>> news:u7lgf55...@corp.supernews.com:
>>
>> >
>> > the cno keeps the usmc on a short leash, if they were able to
>> > duplicate all staff functions the navy now provides they would
>> > start clamoring to become a separate service which has been floated
>> > before but is quickly shot down by all the services since the army
>> > wants the usmc armor and infantry, the usaf wants all the usmc
>> > helos and fighters and the navy sure as shit does not want to lose
>> > it's own army with its own air force...
>> >
>>
>> You are totally lost about this whole thing aren't you....
>
>
--
Spuds
> << I Have 20 years in the Navy as a Hospital Corpsman, and 7
> of that has been spent with the Marines. There are NO Marine medics,
> >>
>
> Absolutely correct!
>
> They are just Navy "medics" that wear Marine uniforms!
CORPSMAN...damnit, Navy CORPSMAN!
Corpsman save Marines, medics(amry) carry litters and lett nurses do the
work...(kidding) No NURSES with the MARINES...WHEW HOO!!!
Nurse-hating is BIG in the Hospital Corps, they are out to kill out
abilities, thats why MOST of the real Corpsmen, go with the grunts, because
there are NO NURSES!!!!
<BIG grin>
Spuds
> My uncle was a corpsman in the 4th Marine Division back in the day
> when the rating was "Pharmacist Mate." I have a couple of photos of
> him wearing a Marine "Charlie" uniform (including the USMC emblem on
> the lapels and caps) with his Navy rating on the sleeves.
>
> Gary
Damn, he must have seen some good action with their history. Instant
admiration from me.
Footnote to others: 4th Marine Division was one of the units that Took Iwo
Jima.
JoAnna Birchwood
the usaf has much bigger bx's, our women are prettier and it is the only
service where the enlisted send the officers off to combat and a lot fewer
discharges for fudge-packing, must be all those great looking babes in blue.
oh, and the food in the mess hall is better, with waiter service i
understand these days... =;-]
did you render first aid after knocking out the usaf ssgt? if only we could
harness some of this testoserone and use it against our real enemies...
"Spuds" <Sp...@bloom-county-rehab.com> wrote in message
news:Xns91D8AF97949...@68.6.19.6...
> "JoAnna Birchwood" <som...@microsoft.com> wrote in
> news:u9frbar...@corp.supernews.com:
>
>
> Well, let's see...
>
Spuds
> a great rant, but and THIS IS A BIG BUT:
>
> the usaf has much bigger bx's, our women are prettier and it is the
> only service where the enlisted send the officers off to combat and a
> lot fewer discharges for fudge-packing, must be all those great
> looking babes in blue.
I'll grant you that, dated an USAF Chick in Oki in 1984, that we
affectionately called "Sgt Tits" Biggest Rack I've ever had. But when was
the last time an USAF chick was in Playboy. Can't recall any... We have
had a few. Hell, one fine ass brunette that works in Annapolis right now,
enlisted, tested for Playboy in Chicago a few years back when we worked
together, but she chickened out, and decided to make a career out of the
Navy. We have our share of fine babes, too. The Marines even have a few,
come to think of it, that must be where "The Few" comes from.
> oh, and the food in the mess hall is better, with waiter service i
> understand these days... =;-]
Definitely, We used to go to Kadena NCO Chow Hall in Okinawa on Friday
nights for steak and lobster, cost a whopping $2.25. Table clearing
service there for dinner back then. In Korea, waitress service was an
extra $.50.
> did you render first aid after knocking out the usaf ssgt? if only we
> could harness some of this testoserone and use it against our real
> enemies...
LOL, he had it coming...was a good opportunity to practice "service"
relations. <grin> Plus my guys grabbed me and we headed out of there.
Huge fight almost ensued, and Army MPs were everywhere. Recon, baby, Swift
silent, and fucking out of here!
JoAnna Birchwood
personnel spec?
aka 'cj'...?
well even before the services forbade posing nude, can you imagine the
attention a military woman would get after the issue hit the bx? i mean
everybody read play/boy/girl/viva back then so it would be widely known and
commented upon and i can just imagine some of the remarks...
foxy women already get hit on more than than most of them want, esp in
places like the services with all those young unattached people all away
from home.
"Spuds" <Sp...@bloom-county-rehab.com> wrote in message
news:Xns91D8F31C1C8...@68.6.19.6...
> "JoAnna Birchwood" <som...@microsoft.com> wrote in
> news:u9laaan...@corp.supernews.com:
>
MCsnapshot
admiration from me.
Footnote to others: 4th Marine Division was one of the units that Took Iwo
Jima.
>>
He joined late in the war and only made it in time for the Okinawa campaign.
I was told that he wrote my grandfather and asked to be sent a pistol from home
because the Marines wouldn't issue him one and the Japanese didn't hold their
fire when it came to non-combat personnel.
He, my father and another uncle (3 brothers) all participated in the Okinawa
campaign, but neither one knew the others were in the area until they got back
home when war had ended.
Gary
P.S. My father was at Iwo. He was off-shore in a Destroyer. (part of Cpt
Coward's DESRON 54)
MCsnapshot
I KNOW! I KNOW! I was just quoting the previous message. (Note the "" before
and after the word.)
Gary
Spuds
news:20020322183523...@mb-fh.aol.com:
> << Damn, he must have seen some good action with their history.
> Instant admiration from me.
>
> Footnote to others: 4th Marine Division was one of the units that
> Took Iwo Jima.
>
> >>
>
>
> He joined late in the war and only made it in time for the Okinawa
> campaign. I was told that he wrote my grandfather and asked to be
> sent a pistol from home because the Marines wouldn't issue him one and
> the Japanese didn't hold their fire when it came to non-combat
> personnel.
Okinawa was no cake walk either. The Japs were a mean bunch. I had a
neighbor growing up that was with the 4th Marines in Rabaul all the way
through Okinawa. He was tickled shitless when I became a Corpsmen. He
hasn't called me by my name since, instead calling me "Doc" Been in 20
years now and still the same. He is one tough old grunt, was a mortarman
with, I believe, 23rd Marines.
>
> He, my father and another uncle (3 brothers) all participated in the
> Okinawa campaign, but neither one knew the others were in the area
> until they got back home when war had ended.
Ain't that something. Amazing how servign back then was like just up and
disappearing until you finally came home. Many gone for years before that.
>
>
> Gary
>
> P.S. My father was at Iwo. He was off-shore in a Destroyer. (part of
> Cpt Coward's DESRON 54)
He was a busy man for sure, that unit did some serious sub hunting in those
waters.
Hum a few Bars of Waltzing Matilda for them from me. Take Care!
Spuds
Spuds
> she wasn't by any chance in sheet metal/fuselage repair and later
> became a personnel spec?
>
> aka 'cj'...?
Nope, she worked in Base Operations at the flightline. Nice cheery face to
file your flightplans with.
>
> well even before the services forbade posing nude, can you imagine the
> attention a military woman would get after the issue hit the bx? i
> mean everybody read play/boy/girl/viva back then so it would be widely
> known and commented upon and i can just imagine some of the remarks...
That stuff happened anyhow back then. Back when you could go "Hey Baby..."
And they would shoot right back at you with something like, "You couldn't
handle me, bud!" Back when they were fun, and no one ran off to "daddy"
screaming sexual harrassment.
>
> foxy women already get hit on more than than most of them want, esp in
> places like the services with all those young unattached people all
> away from home.
Nothing more dangerous than an 18 year old away from home for the first
time, with a paycheck all their own, and no one to tell them when to be
home...
Spuds out...
Christopher L. Estep
wrote:
>In article <u7jfjh9...@corp.supernews.com>, JoAnna Birchwood
><joan...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> once again, the usmc is not a real separate military service, it is
>> basically naval infantry. [yes, i know it has tanks and artillery and its
>> own air wing as well, but the bottom line is that the CNO calls all the
>> shots and the CMC reports to him, yes sir, no sir, 3 bags full, sir...
>
>I do not think anyone here or certainly in the television show has ever
>advanced that claim (that the USMC is a separate service). The USMC
>has, since its inception, been part of the Department of the Navy. They
>do though have a separate function from USN and have their own command
>structure with a Commandant. And that Commandant sits on the Joint
>Chiefs of Staff.
Which was *not* always the case. The Commandant of the Corps does now
because of a PD that originated with Nixon during Vietnam that gave
the Commandant an equal vote in JCS meetings (however, he *still*
reports to the CNO).
>
>>
>> and bellisario who has never heard of NIS ["We will prove you are a filthy
>> homosexual and that's why you blew up #2 Turret on the Wisconsin"] is
>> credible as to the structure of navy JAG?
>
>Now you have to ask yourself, off the cuff, how many people in the
>civilian world know about NIS? Bellisario I believe was once a Marine
>and I doubt he ever encountered it.
Most Naval commands do *not* have NIS offices of their own. As I am
sure you are aware of, when an *incident* occurs that has
Congressional or NCA interest (USS Iowa, for example), NIS HQ will
*augment* the local NIS office with additional investigators.
Case in point: Naval Sea Systems Command Indian Head/Naval Surface
Warfare Center Indian Head Division (home of the National Center for
Energetics) does *not* have an NIS office on-site; instead, when
something comes up, they *borrow* investigators from the NIS office at
NAWCAD Patuxent River, MD (the NIS office that covers southern
Maryland) as opposed to NIS Capitol Region at Buzzard's Point (even
though Buzzard's Point is closer than Pax River).
Usually, when NIS descends on a command (ashore or afloat) it means
disaster for all associated with that command, whether they actually
broke the law or not.
(It wasn't USS Wisconsin that had it's #2 turret blow up, it was USS
Iowa. And NIS HQ, *not* the NIS investigative teams from Norfolk, VA,
Dahlgren, VA, and Patuxent River, MD that actually did the legwork,
was *directly* responsible for that investigation being so badly
botched. Surprisingly, the chief meddler in the Iowa investigation
was NIS' then-commander, VADM Cathal Flynn, who *also* train-wrecked
the careers of VADM James *Ace* Lyons and then-SECNAV John Lehman.)
>
>However this show gets a lot of help from USN. They like the show and
>give it a lot of technical assistance (and locations to shoot). We can
>sit here all day and night and argue whether JAG really is authentic in
>its depiction of JAG operations (no one says it is since it is
>entertainment). You can wrap yourself up in knots or simply enjoy the
>show or not.
When NIS investigates, they are *supposed* to follow a specific set of
procedures which are set forth in the Judge Advocate General Manual of
Investigation (JAGMAN). How often they actually *do* is anyone's
guess.
Christopher L. Estep