where the hell.....
badk...@maple.circa.ufl.edu
Gainseville, FL?
Somebody send me the FAQ again, my x-mailer crashed, didn't get all of it. :(
More questions from my curious mind......
Is there a balance of some sort between "good" and "bad" immortals?
Connor (or was it Duncan) was afraid that if he killed too many immortals
he would become "evil". What do you Highlander gurus think about that?
I have a possible explanation for why MacLoud.. (somebody, what is the correct spelling, please!!)
uses a katan instead of the seemingly standardized broadsword. If you have ever fought with a sword, you will know
that a broadsword is generally a two handed weapon. It is not meant
to be used with one hand, because it is not balanced that way.
THe Katana on the other hand, is perfectly suited
to one handed and two handed fighting. SOmething in the curve of the blade
makes it more stable and well balanced.
Also , a concealed Katana is a hell of a lot easier to draw than a
concealed broadswrod. Trying hiding a yardstick in your overcoat, and draw
it in a swift motion. the balance is wrong. Stealth would be a a definite advantage
considering MacLoud could get his sword out faster.
Finally, I submit that the fact that the sword used to be Ramireze's
had a lot to do with it.
If you disagree, or want to point out flaws in my reasoning, feel free to respond directly, or on this group.
Badk...@ufcc.ufl.edu
Evil In Human Form
Wearer of No Hats
Evil Doesn't Wear Hats
WE DON'T NEED NO STEEENKING HATS!!!
Wendy Milner
: I have a possible explanation for why MacLoud.. (somebody, what is the correct spelling, please!!)
MacLeod
--
Wendy
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Wendy Milner HPDesk: wendy_milner@hp4000
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Allen Marshall Lee
>that a broadsword is generally a two handed weapon. It is not meant
>to be used with one hand, because it is not balanced that way.
>THe Katana on the other hand, is perfectly suited
>to one handed and two handed fighting. SOmething in the curve of the blade
>makes it more stable and well balanced.
>Also , a concealed Katana is a hell of a lot easier to draw than a
>concealed broadswrod. Trying hiding a yardstick in your overcoat, and draw
>it in a swift motion. the balance is wrong. Stealth would be a a definite advantage
>considering MacLoud could get his sword out faster.
>
>Finally, I submit that the fact that the sword used to be Ramireze's
>had a lot to do with it.
>
I think Macleod uses a katana because he learned a lot from Connor, who
learned from Rameirez (sp). Most of the immortals Macleod encounters use
a broadsword or sabre type weapon. Actually, I think no one uses a
Katana except those two.
But in Unholy Alliance, Xavier seemingly balances the weapon with ease.
In fact, in the second part Macleod uses the weapon easily (after their
weapons get switched). I think one major reason why Macleod was able to
win was because by using a broadsword he was able to switch style and
form (to something definitely from the Chinese sword play). As this was
the third time they fought, Xavier had pretty much gotten use to
Macleod's style of fighting with the Katana.
Besides, all the other immortal can hide broadswords... Some may actually
see the Katana at a disadvantage because it is only one sided.
*---()----------
Allen Lee <all...@uclink2.berkeley.edu>
Morgan Burke
|> I have a possible explanation for why MacLoud.. (somebody, what is the correct spelling, please!!)
|> uses a katan instead of the seemingly standardized broadsword. If you have ever fought with a sword, you will know
|> that a broadsword is generally a two handed weapon. It is not meant
|> to be used with one hand, because it is not balanced that way.
Broadswords are single-handed weapons, virtually by definition.
They typically have small hilts with basket, cage, or knuckle
guards, and can be used for cuts or thrusts. The "Toledo Salamanca"
from the opening scenes of the first movie is an excellent example
of a broadsword, as is almost any military sword from the 19th and
20th centuries. Except for lightweight duelling weapons that would
be unsuitable for beheading immortals, broadswords and sabres were
the last evolutionary stage of military swords before they fell
into disuse.
Two-handed swords (a la the Kurgan's) are NOT broadswords, but are
more accurately described as great swords, bastard swords, claymores,
hand-and-a-half swords, or just two-handed swords. They have a
fun barbarian mystique that translates well to TV, but fact is they
were a late medieval development typically used for cutting off horses'
and soldiers' legs and taking the tips off of spears in phalanxes.
They wouldn't be my first choice for a duel against a skilled,
unarmoured swordsman.
|> THe Katana on the other hand, is perfectly suited
|> to one handed and two handed fighting.
Katanas are two-handed weapons, and standard Japanese fencing schools
will always train their students in two-handed techniques first.
One-handed Japanese swords are called wakizashi, and are quite short.
|> SOmething in the curve of the blade
|> makes it more stable and well balanced.
There are poorly balanced katanas, just as there are poorly balanced
broadswords and greatswords.
A well-made katana is, however, very well suited for cutting attacks
(important to an immortal). Japanese fencing is highly biased to
cutting to the head (whereas Western fencing is biased towards the
thrust) and the sword design reflects that. Since a good immortal
would prefer cutting his opponent's head rather than running him
through, Ramirez's choice of katana is not unsound.
Of course, a good thrust would take an immortal to his knees (as the
drunken duel scene in the first movie showed), allowing an easy followup
cut to the neck, so Japanese technique is by no means invincible. [By
the way, the drunken duel ties with the Princess Bride's duel on the
Cliffs of Insanity for the best fencing scene in any Hollywood film of
the last 20 years.]
|> Also , a concealed Katana is a hell of a lot easier to draw than a
|> concealed broadswrod. Trying hiding a yardstick in your overcoat, and draw
|> it in a swift motion. the balance is wrong.
I assume you mean a great sword, not a broadsword. A broadsword would
be just as easy to conceal and draw as a katana. Greatswords and their
ilk would be worn across the back and drawn over the shoulder, or else
would simply be carried about like a shotgun.
-- Morgan Burke
mor...@sitka.triumf.ca
Mark Gadzikowski
>A well-made katana is, however, very well suited for cutting attacks
>(important to an immortal). Japanese fencing is highly biased to
>cutting to the head
Kendo espouses three cuts (head, wrist, and belly) and a single thrust (throat).
Kenjutsu is less restrictive for target areas.
>|> Also , a concealed Katana is a hell of a lot easier to draw than a
>|> concealed broadswrod. Trying hiding a yardstick in your overcoat, and draw
>|> it in a swift motion. the balance is wrong.
A concealed katana is a joke. I once concealed a wakizashi (short sword)
replica under a waistcoat for an evening out with friends, and it was a true
trial to keep it concealed, especially when taking off the coat and putting
it back on. It's pure theatre what those MacLeods do: a kind of magic.
--
I used to drive a Heisenberg Uncertainty car, but I could never read the
speedometer without getting lost.
Netcom: rice...@netcom.com
That's "Mark Gadzikowski" to you, Human.
Morgan Burke
|> mor...@sitka.triumf.ca (Morgan Burke) writes:
|> >A well-made katana is, however, very well suited for cutting attacks
|> >(important to an immortal). Japanese fencing is highly biased to
|> >cutting to the head
|>
|> Kendo espouses three cuts (head, wrist, and belly) and a single
|> thrust (throat). Kenjutsu is less restrictive for target areas.
Half of the eight kendo targets are on the head (if you count throat as
part of the head). The "Japanese Sword Arts" FAQ says:
Kendo has only one basic technique - shomen, the cut to the head ...
This large technique is the "real sword" way, and is the first technique
taught. All other strokes are variations on shomen
As for kenjutsu, who can say? Many cuts are practised, but who ever gets
a chance to try it out in combat? Who knows what is practical and what
is mostly for show?
|> >|> Also , a concealed Katana is a hell of a lot easier to draw than a
|> >|> concealed broadswrod. Trying hiding a yardstick in your overcoat, and draw
|> >|> it in a swift motion. the balance is wrong.
|>
|> A concealed katana is a joke. I once concealed a wakizashi (short sword)
|> replica under a waistcoat for an evening out with friends, and it was a true
|> trial to keep it concealed, especially when taking off the coat and putting
|> it back on. It's pure theatre what those MacLeods do: a kind of magic.
The Khurgan's solution of a collapsable Lego sword was one attempt to
deal with this problem, albeit a bit goofy. It's not like such a
sword could actually take a blow from another sword, much less cut
through steel girders and such like at the end of the movie. Funny,
though, since the Khurgan was the least likely to give a damn about
concealing his weapon.
-- Morgan Burke
mor...@sitka.triumf.ca
Terence Teo
: The Khurgan's solution of a collapsable Lego sword was one attempt to
: sword could actually take a blow from another sword, much less cut
: through steel girders and such like at the end of the movie. Funny,
: though, since the Khurgan was the least likely to give a damn about
: concealing his weapon.
: -- Morgan Burke
: mor...@sitka.triumf.ca
I agree. I can't imagine a sword maintaining its integrity and
balance after being broken down like this. A detachable whole blade, I
don't care, but a blade that breaks down into two parts. That, as you
said, is goofy.
Kurgan may not care about concealing his weapon, but I'm sure the
custom officials around would be very curious. It's not his style, but
hey, he's not stupid.
Terence Teo
---tt...@unixg.ubc.ca
Morgan Burke
||> I agree. I can't imagine a sword maintaining its integrity and
|> balance after being broken down like this. A detachable whole blade, I
|> don't care, but a blade that breaks down into two parts. That, as you
|> said, is goofy.
|>
|> Kurgan may not care about concealing his weapon, but I'm sure the
|> custom officials around would be very curious. It's not his style, but
|> hey, he's not stupid.
Swords aren't restricted weapons. Khurgan could just check his swords
with the rest of his luggage; customs and airport security wouldn't care.
I've personally flown on planes and crossed through customs many times
with a bag full of fencing weapons. Customs doesn't bat an eye.
The only place it matters is on the street--the police don't like people
carrying deadly weapons. But the Khurgan isn't likely to carry his
little case around, and then frantically assemble his mondo sword when
another immortal comes charging out of the shadows. It's a funny image,
though: the Khurgan running madly down the street trying to put his
sword together, while another immortal chases him, shouting and waving.
-- Morgan Burke
mor...@sitka.triumf.ca
Maj. Brizz't
>Broadswords are single-handed weapons, virtually by definition.
Broadswords are designed to be either 1 or 2 handed weapons, basically
a hand-and-a-half sword.
>They typically have small hilts with basket, cage, or knuckle
>guards, and can be used for cuts or thrusts.
besides a few specific varieties of broadswords I have never seen any
with any type of "basket" over the handle. I believe you're thinking of
a sabre, a sabre is a one-handed weapon well balanced for slashes or thrusts,
and normally has some form of hand guard like you mentioned.
>of a broadsword, as is almost any military sword from the 19th and
>20th centuries.
Most military swords from this time period were sabres, easily worn on the
hip, and very similar in size to a katana.
>Katanas are two-handed weapons, and standard Japanese fencing schools
>will always train their students in two-handed techniques first.
>One-handed Japanese swords are called wakizashi, and are quite short.
Katana's also are well designed for either one or two handed styles of
fighting.....true the first thing taught is normally 2 handed fighting,
but it is closely followed by single handed style. Wakizashi's are not
really considered "swords", but more of a long knife. The wakizashi
was meant to be either a back up weapon for the samuri, or, for the more
dextrous and agile, as a second hand weapon.
>There are poorly balanced katanas, just as there are poorly balanced
>broadswords and greatswords.
any sword may be made poorly, but no immortal worth his salt would weild
a poorly balanced weapon. But, the katana is better balanced in general
then any european sword.
>I assume you mean a great sword, not a broadsword. A broadsword would
>be just as easy to conceal and draw as a katana. Greatswords and their
>ilk would be worn across the back and drawn over the shoulder, or else
>would simply be carried about like a shotgun.
once again...a broadsword is not as small as a katana, I really belive that
you are thinking of sabres when you say broadswords.
Though...in actuality, a katana would not be so easy to hide the way they
do in the show. a katana actually has a decent length to it and can't be
place inside a trenchcoat w/o making that area stiff and noticable.
Just my .05 cents worth, gained through Kum Do(korean sword art/royal art)
training, and many scadian friends and events.
Brizzt
Terence Teo
: The only place it matters is on the street--the police don't like people
: carrying deadly weapons. But the Khurgan isn't likely to carry his
: little case around, and then frantically assemble his mondo sword when
: another immortal comes charging out of the shadows. It's a funny image,
: though: the Khurgan running madly down the street trying to put his
: sword together, while another immortal chases him, shouting and waving.
: -- Morgan Burke
: mor...@sitka.triumf.ca
I agree, it is a funny image.
Terence Teo
---tt...@unixg.ubc.ca
Second Genyosha
>In article <2o2m7g$5...@nnrp.ucs.ubc.ca>, tt...@unixg.ubc.ca (Terence Teo) writes:
>|> Kurgan may not care about concealing his weapon, but I'm sure the
>|> custom officials around would be very curious. It's not his style, but
>|> hey, he's not stupid.
>Swords aren't restricted weapons. Khurgan could just check his swords
>with the rest of his luggage; customs and airport security wouldn't care.
>I've personally flown on planes and crossed through customs many times
>with a bag full of fencing weapons. Customs doesn't bat an eye.
I assume that this wasn't as personal luggage, I have had zero problems
getting swords and other artifacts on board as luggage, though the problems
with getting them on as hand luggage is a completely different affair.
Actually I was able to get a set of tondo on the plane after signing a few
forms, but then I was a regular on the flight. Guess I must have had an honest
face :) Why? Cause my weight limit was too much and I dragged what I could on
board to save money. What I do for some people honestly.
>The only place it matters is on the street--the police don't like people
>carrying deadly weapons. But the Khurgan isn't likely to carry his
>little case around, and then frantically assemble his mondo sword when
>another immortal comes charging out of the shadows. It's a funny image,
>though: the Khurgan running madly down the street trying to put his
>sword together, while another immortal chases him, shouting and waving.
Actually I thought the Kurgan not to be that stupid. He always seems to be the
one that set the venue or prepared an ambush or situation. Which is why I
always considered him to be the most dangerous, he was cunning and willing to
wait. Consider his actions of using Brenda to pull Connor into the final
conflict.
This has been... : "I have never listened to anyone who criticized
Toni Taia :my taste in space travel, sideshows or gorillas.
TAI...@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz :When this occurs, I pack up my dinosaurs and leave
My ideas are mine alone, ok?:leave the room." - Ray Bradbury 1980. Age 60.
kenneth r lipka
In article <Apr.8.14.12....@pegasus.rutgers.edu>, bri...@pegasus.rutgers.edu (Maj. Brizz't) writes:
> mor...@sitka.triumf.ca (Morgan Burke) writes:
> >Broadswords are single-handed weapons, virtually by definition.
>
> Broadswords are designed to be either 1 or 2 handed weapons, basically
> a hand-and-a-half sword.
>
> >They typically have small hilts with basket, cage, or knuckle
> >guards, and can be used for cuts or thrusts.
>
> besides a few specific varieties of broadswords I have never seen any
> with any type of "basket" over the handle. I believe you're thinking of
> a sabre, a sabre is a one-handed weapon well balanced for slashes or thrusts,
> and normally has some form of hand guard like you mentioned.
>
have any guards, other than quillions. This is because it is impossible to
design a guard that can cover both hands effectively, and still allow for
easy movement of the hands. However, one-handed broadswords (such as the
basket-hilt claymore) did indeed have guards (and they do resemble sabres,
but the blade is different).
/> Ken Lipka
/< fer...@engin.umich.edu
[\\\\\\(O):::<======================================-
\< Graduate Student - Mechanical Engineering
\> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor USA
"Meanwhile, back at Reality..." -- G. Lucas
(Oh look, a hand-and-half-sword.)