Earthsea ...
Jerri
Ursula K. Le Guin writes about "How the Sci Fi Channel wrecked my books"
No opinion here. Haven't read the books. Didn't see the show. Just thot
someone might be interested.
Jerri
TBird
"Jerri" <nooneh...@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:nJednY2t5rD...@gbronline.com...
It was pretty major wreckage. Entire important premises of the core of
Earthsea were tossed to the wind. And worse, the director claimed to be
fulfilling UKL true intentions - which is what set her off.
Imagine me rewriting your dragon books without talking to you, and saying,
"Well, I think this is what Jerri *really* meant to say."
TBird <---- thinks the screen writers and director didn't even read the
books, they might have glanced at them
Jerri
> Imagine me rewriting your dragon books
> without talking to you, and saying, "Well,
> I think this is what Jerri *really* meant to say."
At this particular juncture, I think if I sold my books to television or the
movies, I'd just take the money and laugh my ass off. Money is the honey. I
don't know who said that, but I think it is true.
Jerri [a wellspring of avarice ... at this particular juncture]
TBird
Well, for UKL, apparently it's about the art, not the money. And she's been
published for 30+ years.
TBird <---- for what that's worth
>
>
Jerri
> Well, for UKL, apparently it's about
> the art, not the money. And she's been
> published for 30+ years.
Not to put too fine a point on it or anything, but she *did* sell the rights
to have Earthsea made into whatever they made it into. Unless she's been
living in a cave for 50 years, she has to know that authors are very rarely
pleased with what happens to their books onscreen. A logical assumption is
that, at some point, money took precedence over the art of it all. Maybe she
had to get new plumbing in the house or something.
Jerri [practical as salt]
TBird
She knew there would be changes.
She did NOT know they would change the *ethnicity* of her protagonist.
Had they consulted her, (and that was written into the deal,) she would not
have said, "Go ahead and make him *white*."
She did NOT know they were going to take her purposefully inpenetrable
school of wizardry, in on inpenetrable island, protected for ages by the
strongest magic in Earthsea from all but the most devouring evil in the know
world, and just let some yahoo with delusions of grandeur break the magic
with a battering ram and kill the grand high most powerful of archmages with
one good toss of a dagger.
God it's infuriating.
It was a GOOD story as she told it. It was televisable as she wrote it.
The idea of blending the two books made it moreso, but my guess is that if
you didn't read the books, the tv version was barely comprehensible.
The worst part is that this all reflects back on her name. This is not "The
Sci-Fi Channel's Earthsea", this is billed as "Ursula K. Le Guin's
Earthsea."
And it's *such* a travesty I took the time to write the lady a letter on my
best stationary and send it to her, thanking her for the books and assuring
her that would be the only version my children would experience.
It's worse than making a movie about Duncan and Methos becoming lovers and
adopting 4 children. Maybe not worse, but pretty damn close.
Jerri
> It's worse than making a movie about Duncan
> and Methos becoming lovers and adopting 4
> children. Maybe not worse, but pretty damn close.
Is that what the next Highlander flick is about? Highlander: Daycare
Dilemma. It could work.
Jerri
Donna
>It was televisable as she wrote it.
That I disagree with, at least as it concerns "Tombs of Atuan." I was
flabbergasted at the notion that someone would try to make "Atuan" as a
movie, since more than 50% of it takes place IN THE DARK!
"Atuan" taught me how powerful the other senses can be in writing. When
there's nothing to visually describe but the dark, touch and smell and
hearing have to carry the story.
Donna
First Fallen
> >It was televisable as she wrote it.
>
> That I disagree with, at least as it concerns "Tombs of Atuan." I was
> flabbergasted at the notion that someone would try to make "Atuan" as a
> movie, since more than 50% of it takes place IN THE DARK!
A little blue gel on the lights, iris down the camera lense, and you're good
to go <eg>
TBird
"Donna" <dle...@verizon.fishnet> wrote in message
news:BIIwd.44$1U6.30@trnddc09...
Well, that's the part that was cool - they interwove Atuan with Wizard of
Earthsea, so that the preistess was growing up as Ged was coming to his
strength. That one thing was a stroke of genius, and that is the thing that
kept me watching.
The rest was horrendous. Watching the great door of Roke shatter like a
pile of toothpicks was more than I could stand
TBird
>
>
TBird
"First Fallen" <no...@nope.com> wrote in message
news:IQIwd.512148$Pl.305409@pd7tw1no...
No - we're talking PITCH BLACK center of the earth caves here. The point
being that the Chosen One had to learn the Tombs of Atuan blind.
They handled this as a sort of dream sequence, and it worked more or less.
TBird <--- that part was at least understandable
>
>
Jette Goldie
Which is what we'd expect - but the story makes it clear that it is
PITCH BLACK - no lights at all. "night effect" lighting just looks
so tacky - like all those "night scenes" in old movies where there
are sharply defined shadows on the ground because it was really
broad daylight and all they did was put a filter on the lens.
--
Jette
"Work for Peace and remain Fiercely Loving" - Jim Byrnes
je...@blueyonder.co.uk
http://www.jette.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/
Donna
> Which is what we'd expect - but the story makes it clear that it is
> PITCH BLACK - no lights at all. "night effect" lighting just looks
> so tacky - like all those "night scenes" in old movies where there
> are sharply defined shadows on the ground because it was really
> broad daylight and all they did was put a filter on the lens.
The official name for that being "day for night."
And sometimes these days it can be achieved entirely in post. It looks just
as cheesy, though. (See, for example, the scene in Finale I when Methos and
Joe walk back to Methos' car from Mrs. Salzer's house. Ooooh, scary, scary
dark....)
Donna
HiRene23
>rights
>She knew there would be changes.
>She did NOT know they would change the *ethnicity* of her protagonist.
But she did know that that was a possibility, right? I feel for her, I'm sure
it's hard for any artist to see their work distorted, but it seems like that's
just the breaks when you choose to sell it. It's no longer yours.
I wonder though... how many writers are able to sell their work with specific
stipulations about script approval and the like?
I haven't seen Earthsea yet, but I'm glad to see some sci-fi/fantasy
programming get good ratings.
Jerri
> >> Not to put too fine a point on it or
> >> anything, but she *did* sell the
> >> rights
> >She knew there would be changes.
> >She did NOT know they would change
> > the *ethnicity* of her protagonist.
> But she did know that that was a possibility,
> right? I feel for her, I'm sure it's hard for any
> artist to see their work distorted, but it seems
> like that's just the breaks when you choose
> to sell it. It's no longer yours.
Yeah, I keep coming back to the fact that she *chose* to sell the rights.
She could have rested on her laurels and maybe a houseful of bad plumbing
forever, but someone made an offer she *chose* not to refuse. She probably
whistled all the way to the bank to deposit the check. Who was it that said
pore old Adrian Paul shouldn't have gone negative on Endgame because he had
been paid for his work, and he should have remained loyal?
Jerri
Jette Goldie
"HiRene23" <hire...@aol.comn> wrote in message
news:20041218092202...@mb-m20.aol.com...
> >> Not to put too fine a point on it or anything, but she *did* sell the
> >rights
>
> >She knew there would be changes.
> >She did NOT know they would change the *ethnicity* of her protagonist.
>
> But she did know that that was a possibility, right? I feel for her, I'm
sure
> it's hard for any artist to see their work distorted, but it seems like
that's
> just the breaks when you choose to sell it. It's no longer yours.
>
> I wonder though... how many writers are able to sell their work with
specific
> stipulations about script approval and the like?
Anne McCaffrey once said that it was *costing* her money
to keep insisting on complete control of her "Pern" books
when looking at tv/movie adaptations, but that she'd keep
doing so. I remember her telling me about some company
who had a proposal for an animated adaptation - and had
Lessa drawn as a Barbie-like California blonde and F'lar
as a hulking great muscled barbarian.
Jerri
> Anne McCaffrey once said that it was *costing* her money
> to keep insisting on complete control of her "Pern" books
> when looking at tv/movie adaptations, but that she'd keep
> doing so. I remember her telling me about some company
> who had a proposal for an animated adaptation - and had
> Lessa drawn as a Barbie-like California blonde and F'lar
> as a hulking great muscled barbarian.
I saw her at Dragon*Con in ... I think it was '98 or '99 ... and she was
talking then about an animated production of Pern ... which everyone got all
excited about, but here it is, years later ... and no animated Pern. I'm
assuming she's very wealthy, so money wouldn't be an object ... but she's
certainly getting on in years, and if the plumbing needs to be re-done, I'd
certainly understand her turning Pern over to the highest bidder.
Jerri [no scruples where plumbing is concerned]
TBird
"HiRene23" <hire...@aol.comn> wrote in message
news:20041218092202...@mb-m20.aol.com...
> >rights
>
> >She knew there would be changes.
> >She did NOT know they would change the *ethnicity* of her protagonist.
>
> But she did know that that was a possibility, right?
I would wager that the changes she thought were possible were about the over
all appearance of Earthsea, the things necessary to make Tombs not a black
screen, and some cutting here and there. Changing the ETHNICITY of her LEAD
CHARACTER probably never crossed her mind.
(Hey, lets make Kunta Kinte (sp?) blonde!)
> I feel for her, I'm sure
> it's hard for any artist to see their work distorted, but it seems like
that's
> just the breaks when you choose to sell it. It's no longer yours.
>
> I wonder though... how many writers are able to sell their work with
specific
> stipulations about script approval and the like?
Not many - most get "Consulting" and she did to. But by the time they got
the script to her and she objected, they told her they were already in
production.
Again, what she's pissed about is that the director is telling people he
believes he improved on her vision - and has never spoken to her. So he's
putting words in her mouth, and I'd be pissed too.
> I haven't seen Earthsea yet, but I'm glad to see some sci-fi/fantasy
> programming get good ratings.
I wish they had made their own Wizardy movie and left Ged alone. Or at
least let him stay the same ethnicity of the other people in Gont. Yeesh.
Jette Goldie
Depends on how you define *very wealthy* - I think she
said she's *comfortable*.... but that was some years ago
before there were quite so many continuations to all her
books! However Eire has this ..... attractive..... little quirk
for writers and other artists - if your art provides your
whole income, you pay zero income tax. (that was the
position a few years ago - I can't guarantee they haven't
changed it lately, just in case you're thinking of moving)
There used to be quite a little "commune" in County Wicklow.
Harry Harrison, Anne, James White, to name three (though
Jim and Harry are sadly gone and very sadly missed these
days at cons )
--
Jette Goldie
je...@blueyonder.co.uk
INTERACTION - the 63rd Worldcon
"A European Worldcon in Glasgow"
http://interaction.worldcon.org.uk/
Jerri
> However Eire has this ..... attractive..... little quirk
> for writers and other artists - if your art provides your
> whole income, you pay zero income tax. (that was the
> position a few years ago - I can't guarantee they haven't
> changed it lately, just in case you're thinking of moving)
I've heard about the no-tax thing ... alas, for poor moi, I have yet to
make my first dollar from my *art* [snerk] so the tax advantages would be
decidedly short for me. I might go the "selling on eBay route". I understand
it can be quite profitable. *Maybe* profitable enough to re-wire the whole
house for electricity. I understand electricians are more expensive than
plumbers.
Jerri [that's what the plumber told me, anyways]
JDChronicler
creative team when she sold it. There was a director that she respected and
she was told that the same woman who had written for the LoTR movies would
write the script. So she felt she was giving Earthsea into good hands. The
implication is that she wouldn't have sold it otherwise.
She didn't speak up about her misgivings until the man who actually directed
the miniseries said that he thought he knew what LeGuin intended in writing
Earthsea and made a statement about his concept of LeGuin's intentions. Since
he'd never met her and had no clue of her intentions, this riled LeGuin.
Shomeret
GHorvath
>the miniseries said that he thought he knew what LeGuin intended in writing
>Earthsea and made a statement about his concept of LeGuin's intentions.
I wonder if he thought she was in her grave and couldn't contradict his
interpretation....
GH
Adapt the dead! They can't complain!
Jerri
> Adapt the dead! They can't complain!
Is that why Heinlein's Starship Troopers didn't get movie-ized until long
after his death?
Jerri
TBird
I don't know who wrote this...
> >She didn't speak up about her misgivings until the man who actually
directed
> >the miniseries said that he thought he knew what LeGuin intended in
writing
> >Earthsea and made a statement about his concept of LeGuin's intentions.
She didnt speak up because she believed she was bound not to - or so it says
on her website.
She DID speak up to the director/ptb when she was given a script, and they
told her it was already in production, too bad.
Gillian:
> I wonder if he thought she was in her grave and couldn't contradict his
> interpretation....
>
> GH
> Adapt the dead! They can't complain!
That'd be nice, but they did supply her a script.... just not until
production was already underway.
Again, she knew there would be changes. But who on earth would expect the
changes to be to the fundemental premises of the books? Roke was virtually
INPENETRABLE. That was made clear over and over and over and over and over
again in the books. It took the biggest evil ever to come close to
penetrating the defenses. In the movie.... piffle, it's just a big wooden
door. Any newly annointed wizard with a battering ram can take it down....
Never mind that the wisest of all wizards never suspected a traitor in their
midst...
Oh god, if I think about it anymore I'll scream.
TBird <---- yeah, Daddy daycare starring Duncie and Methos as those wacky
gay child care providers... Guest appearance by Joe Dawson as Ebenezer
Scrooge in the Christmas Special; Amanda Got Run Over By a Reindeer....
>
> http://hometown.aol.com/webgill/index.html
JDChronicler
made his statement about LeGuin's intentions. I got that info from from
LeGuin's website. It's at
http://www.ursulakleguin.com/Earthsea.html.
She starts off quoting the director then says she'd been silent up until now,
but being told what her intentions were by someone who'd never met her was too
much.
Shomeret
GinjerB
>Date: Sat, Dec 18, 2004 10:26 EST
>Message-id: <_u2dnT-iMIK...@gbronline.com>
She sold them, thinking that one specific writer would be involved--and then he
was removed from the project. Naive on her part, not to ask for more control
(she probably could have gotten it.) but knowing Ursula (and I do, on a
professional basis, at least) I don't think we are in a take the money and run
situation here.
In fact, what she was particularly pissed about (rightly so, MHO) was that the
director kept going on at great length about how true his work was to her
vison--if he hadn't done that, I suspect she woud have been more sanguine about
the outcome.
GinjerB
GinjerB
>Date: Sat, Dec 18, 2004 11:52 EST
>Message-id: <yfZwd.2383$Ar5....@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
Katheirne Kurtz lives there as does Deborah Turner Harris and Morgan LLewelyn.
And Anne would not be defined as "wealthy" in anyone's terms. Very few writers
in our genre are.
GinjerB
GinjerB
>Date: Sun, Dec 19, 2004 13:36 EST
>Message-id: <20041219133633...@mb-m07.aol.com>
>
>>She didn't speak up about her misgivings until the man who actually directed
>>the miniseries said that he thought he knew what LeGuin intended in writing
>>Earthsea and made a statement about his concept of LeGuin's intentions.
>
>I wonder if he thought she was in her grave and couldn't contradict his
>interpretation....
>
>GH
>Adapt the dead! They can't complain!
>
>
LOL! Probably not--but it is a talking point...
GinjerB
John Mosby (Out&About)
> In fact, what she was particularly pissed about (rightly so, MHO) was that
> the
> director kept going on at great length about how true his work was to her
> vison--if he hadn't done that, I suspect she woud have been more sanguine
> about
> the outcome.
>
> GinjerB
That does seem to be the case.
I always got pissed at my English teachers when they set a question that
went "What do you think Author X meant when he said
'............................'" On several occasions - after serious
forethought - I wrote what I though the writer meant and cited examples to
back my thoughts up. If those didn't match what the teacher felt (or the
author was on record as saying) I might lose marks. It may sound like
semantics, but one has to be very specific when it comes to attributing
interpretations of existing work and less so about the pure individual
reaction. A director shouldn't spout off about what the writer meant
without checking that was what the writer meant and equally each of us take
away something different - perhaps more than the writer ever intended.
(Personally Winnie the Pooh is my Bible. After the Tao of Pooh and the Te of
Piglet, I lay claim to the Toe of Mosby.)
That's the whole point. If the director had said: 'I think this work speaks
to the idea of...' it would have been a safer bet than putting words in
ULG's mouth which she's rightly annoyed about and which triggered her
comments in general.
I mean... how many times have Highlander fans said that an inner meaning was
clear and Gillian/Donna/David had to say 'Er... hold on... that wasn't what
we meant (but glad you enjoyed it!)'.
Then again I obviously admire Gillian's work and see that she has clear
understanding of the metaphysical nature of the inner taoistic philosophy
and that she naturally references it in her episode of Baywatch.
Like...obviously. ;)
John
First Fallen
"John Mosby (Out&About)" wrote in message:
It is one of my goals in life, to write a film, that after it is made, is
discussed in a film studies class. I then want to sit in on the class
(hiding in the back somewhere) just to see what it is that the professor
thought it was I was trying to say <g>
Donna
> was
> > clear and Gillian/Donna/David had to say 'Er... hold on... that wasn't
> what
> > we meant (but glad you enjoyed it!)'.
Hey, even within the Gillian/Donna/David continuum, there was little
agreement. Did you see the look David gave me on some panel (possibly at
The Celebration) where I said Highlander was a show supposedly about living
forever that was actually a show about coming to terms with death and dying?
<g>
Donna
(I think I'd actually said it before the convention -- and Mr. Mosby put it
in one of his articles so Adrian could disagree with me as well <g>)
Edgar Governo
<much snippage>
>It is one of my goals in life, to write a film, that after it is made, is
>discussed in a film studies class. I then want to sit in on the class
>(hiding in the back somewhere) just to see what it is that the professor
>thought it was I was trying to say <g>
I saw Jerry O'Connell in an interview, talking about taking a film
class at NYU where he had to watch Stand by Me, and wanting to raise
his hand to tell the professor, "Umm, I never heard Mister Reiner use
the phrase 'Christ figure.'" :)
Edgar Governo
Historian of Things That Never Were
http://www.mts.net/~arphaxad/history.html
You can also visit my homepage:
http://www.mts.net/~arphaxad
Personal email is encouraged, as always.