Separate Education?
AMc in CA
http://abcnews.go.com/wire/US/ap20040824_1060.html
Anyone have experience with boy or girl-only educational settings?
Here's my 2 cents' worth. I went to public schools all my life. In first grade,
they combined & then re-divided the 2 first grade classes so one was boys-only
& the other was girls only. I survived. Probably did better, in fact. Speaking
also as a former elementary school teacher, I'd support separate classes for
the core subjects (english/reading, math & science) & combined classes for the
other subjects. Hopefully, in that way, all students would have their best
chance at mastering the basics while still learning the social skills required
in a society that isn't gender-segregated.
Anyone else have an opinion?
Alicia
- - - - - -
To be different is not necessarily to be ugly;
to have a different idea is not necessarily to be wrong.
The worst possible thing is for all of us to begin
to look and act and think alike.
-- Gene Roddenberry
David Halpern
Can we top post here?
Well I am not sure about schools but certainly
the U.S. military should be segregated in my opinion.
D.H.
"AMc in CA" <amc...@aol.compost> wrote in message
news:20040824161127...@mb-m27.aol.com...
Jerri
> Anyone else have an opinion?
*Of Course* I have an opinion. Do I ever not have an opinion? [ans: no]
I grew up in a completely co-ed school system, and I wouldn't have it any
other way. Gave us girls ample opportunity to knock the boys on their
academic asses when they thought they were smarter than us. They were never
smarter than we were. They just thought they were. If we hadn't been in the
same classroom, we might have believed their boasts ... and might have
believed all that crap about what girls can do in comparison. Back then,
girls weren't supposed to have such high aspirations. Housewife, secretary,
nurse or teacher ... that was pretty much what we were supposed to dream of
being.
I absolutely abhor the idea of segregating girls with the idea that they
learn better among themselves. Bullroar! They need to compete with the boys
who will lord it over them if they're never in direct competition. It's not
a matter of learning the schoolwork. It's a matter of learning how to
compete. If you compete well enough, no one cares what you know. That is
true in just about any real life situation I can think of. And I've been
around. <G>
Jerri [using GWBush as her real life example for this ... the least-informed
person in public life is leader of the free world ... now how fun is that?]
Lee Brant
"AMc in CA" <amc...@aol.compost> wrote in message
news:20040824161127...@mb-m27.aol.com...
> Anyone up for a discussion on "More U.S. Schools Segregating Sexes"?
>
> http://abcnews.go.com/wire/US/ap20040824_1060.html
>
Minor snip
Speaking
> also as a former elementary school teacher, I'd support separate classes
for
> the core subjects (english/reading, math & science) & combined classes for
>the other subjects. Hopefully, in that way, all students would have their
best
> chance at mastering the basics while still learning the social skills
required
> in a society that isn't gender-segregated.
>
Speaking strictly as a parent, I'm torn. It would be great for my son, but
I would be very concerned that my daughter was getting the best education I
could provide. I'm of an age where females were <and still are>
discriminated on because they are female. I've lived it all my life. It's
gotten better in the past two decades, yes, but still there.
I understand about the math and sciences being geared more towards boy, but
Alissah is enrolled in advanced math, science an d literature classes.
There are 2 girls in the science class, and 6 in the math class. Both class
have nearly 30 students. This tells me something. Alissah loves the work
and she works very hard, two to three hours a night for homework <in sixth
grade>, but where are the rest of the girls.
Are they not interested, or not encouraged? What are they taking? Why?
What would they take if it were a girls only school? Would these classes
even be available to Alissah if there were only two girls attending?
Seperate is not equal, never has been, never will be.
MHO
Lee
Moll
graduated high school senior from the area I am in .. northeastern PA, I
don't think segregating sexes will change anything if the core of the
education is diluted like it is here. For example, here the kids correct
other kids homework??? WTH is that? Spelling is not corrected nor is
grammar. Now when I was in school the teachers corrected the papers all of
them not the students with explanations as to what was wrong and why, the
teachers never left school before 330 and were available to help a student
understand the work. However my education was still not as good as it should
be and not due to boys in the classes but to outcome based education. Things
have went down hill steadily since I graduated over 20 yrs ago. In this
state we are the highest paying tax area for school taxes and the 5th lowest
in education in the state. They don't worry about if the child can read,
speak, or write the English language correctly, add or subtract, etc it's
all about the politically correct self esteem of the student. Please...I
realize some students esp. now days with divorce rates higher do not get the
self esteem they should from home but give them an education that will allow
them to function and compete in the real world *which can't be done by
lowering standards so they don't feel bad because they made a D instead of a
C* and their self esteem will go up. ooops ranting here. Anyway I do not
see the advantage of segregating sexes, the idea of education is to prepare
the students for life in the real adult world. I don't know to many places
of employment or other things that segregate sexes.
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"AMc in CA" <amc...@aol.compost> wrote in message
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Dotiran
me rant about education.
My husband and I belong to a Christian community with a lot of intellectual
[not monetary] resources and we were so fed up with both the public and
parochial systems in our town that we started our own school about 15 years
ago. Of course it is now thriving, has the best SAT scores in town [no prep for
it either], graduates have gone to all major universities including Harvard,
and we aren't accredited. Accreditation meant accepting a lot of tiddlywink
courses [like health] and an oversight we weren't willing to agree to. The
core curriculum is classical and mandatory. 4 years Latin, 4 years modern
language, 6 years science, math, English, history, and... drama, art and music
are all *requirements* not electives. All 6 of my own children have graduated
from our school.
We do separate boys and girls in the core classes, [science, math, english,
etc.] but not in drama, music, art, etc. It works out just fine. I think I
agree with the feminists on this one in that it may well be *better* for the
girls not to be with the boys. We have athletics for all students, but it will
never replace academics as the *reason* for the school.
What is wrong with education in this country is not co-education, it is the
"system" that allows mediocrity, and which expects very little of the lower IQ
students. We have learned that students with very low IQ's who are required to
take the same curriculum [not a dumbed down one] may not get A's [false A's
that mean nothing but are just put there for self esteem, blech] but they
graduate with a real education. Our theory is that it is better to put real
"cream" into each cup no matter how large or how small [cup meaning the size of
the brain] rather than to give the smaller cup skimmed milk.
The other area of mediocrity [don't throw tomatoes please] sits squarely with
the teachers. If your degree is in *education* how can you inspire a student to
excellence in math, or literature or whatever. We tend to choose teachers with
academically rich backgrounds even if they have no "education" credits because
we can teach them our "socratic" method quickly, [all classes are seminars] but
we can't teach them the material itself. I apologize in advance for any offense
to good teachers who aren't the mediocre ones I am talking about anyway.
::::::::::rant mode off::::::::::::
Dorothy aka Rottweiler
Moll
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"Dotiran" <dot...@aol.comd> wrote in message
news:20040825004749...@mb-m15.aol.com...
TBird
"AMc in CA" <amc...@aol.compost> wrote in message
news:20040824161127...@mb-m27.aol.com...
> Anyone up for a discussion on "More U.S. Schools Segregating Sexes"?
>
> http://abcnews.go.com/wire/US/ap20040824_1060.html
>
> Anyone have experience with boy or girl-only educational settings?
>
> Here's my 2 cents' worth. I went to public schools all my life. In first
grade,
> they combined & then re-divided the 2 first grade classes so one was
boys-only
> & the other was girls only. I survived. Probably did better, in fact.
Speaking
> also as a former elementary school teacher, I'd support separate classes
for
> the core subjects (english/reading, math & science) & combined classes for
the
> other subjects. Hopefully, in that way, all students would have their best
> chance at mastering the basics while still learning the social skills
required
> in a society that isn't gender-segregated.
>
> Anyone else have an opinion?
>
>
> Alicia
Not sure I have an opinion but I have thought about it and I have some
experience in both situations.
My first four years, I attended an all girls private school in Manhattan.
(Not Brearley or Chapin, FYI.) The argument in favor of sex-segregated
schools is that when girls are not intimidated by the boys, they excel in
all areas. When there are boys in class, there are indications that they
are intimidated, or (this is the silliest thing I've ever read, but I guess
it could be true) afraid of being seen as too smart, so they dumb themselves
down so as not to intimidate the boys.
My last year at that school, they did start introducing boys into the
classrooms, and we were mightily resentful, IIRC.
Two years in Catholic School where science and maths were not stressed at
all, male or female...
Then back to private school, but this time a co-ed Quaker school, where
equality was assumed, and I don't remember anything being an issue.
Classes, average and AP, were balanced. My best friend was a girl excelling
in all her classes. I don't think sex made a difference, at least not one I
ever noticed or felt challenge by nor intimidated. Even our sex ed classes
were co-ed, separated only occassionally, but we read each others books;
"Girls and Sex" and "Boys and Sex".
I dunno.
TBird <---- and that's my solid opinion ;-)
TBird
How much self esteem can one get out of an A if one knows it was rigged????
GAH!
And good on you all for insisting on that school! (Although I think health
is an important topic to have in school, as I for one never got it at home.
Thank goodness for my 2 weeks of "sex education" in fourth grade or I never
would have know what was happening to me when I got my period!)
I totally agree about the teachers. Godhelpme, but Mimi and her daughter
are both teachers...and GAH. We constantly fight about the Harry Potter
books. My stance is; Great stories, so poorly written I want to break out a
red pen and correct them. Their stance is: As long as the kids are reading,
who cares what they read? *I* do. *I* care. Because reading that sloppily
put together stuff only encourages laziness. It would be one thing if they
were critiquing the writing elements, but they aren't. I suspect the real
issue is that neither of them even knows what I am talking about, which
scares me even more.
My sons substitute teacher last year corrected his spelling on an essay -
and SHE WAS WRONG. < sounds of TBird slamming her head into the desk > The
school supply list for First Grade had no fewer than 4 misspellings!
And we wonder why our president can't put a sentence together!
TBird <---- argh
"Dotiran" <dot...@aol.comd> wrote in message
news:20040825004749...@mb-m15.aol.com...
GinjerB
>Date: Tue, Aug 24, 2004 16:11 EDT
>Message-id: <20040824161127...@mb-m27.aol.com>
>
>Anyone up for a discussion on "More U.S. Schools Segregating Sexes"?
>
>http://abcnews.go.com/wire/US/ap20040824_1060.html
>
>Anyone have experience with boy or girl-only educational settings?
>
>Here's my 2 cents' worth. I went to public schools all my life. In first
>grade,
>they combined & then re-divided the 2 first grade classes so one was
>boys-only
>& the other was girls only. I survived. Probably did better, in fact.
>Speaking
>also as a former elementary school teacher, I'd support separate classes for
>the core subjects (english/reading, math & science) & combined classes for
>the
>other subjects. Hopefully, in that way, all students would have their best
>chance at mastering the basics while still learning the social skills
>required
>in a society that isn't gender-segregated.
>
>Anyone else have an opinion?
>
>
>Alicia
>
school, was coed.
Nonetheless, I got no problem with "segregating" by sex , particularly at the
high school level.
GinjerB
GinjerB
>Date: Wed, Aug 25, 2004 12:06 EDT
>Message-id: <dO2Xc.12248$2L3....@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
>
>Self esteem A's?
>How much self esteem can one get out of an A if one knows it was rigged????
>
>GAH!
>
>And good on you all for insisting on that school! (Although I think health
>is an important topic to have in school, as I for one never got it at home.
>Thank goodness for my 2 weeks of "sex education" in fourth grade or I never
>would have know what was happening to me when I got my period!)
>
>I totally agree about the teachers. Godhelpme, but Mimi and her daughter
>are both teachers...and GAH. We constantly fight about the Harry Potter
>books. My stance is; Great stories, so poorly written I want to break out a
>red pen and correct them. Their stance is: As long as the kids are reading,
>who cares what they read? *I* do. *I* care. Because reading that sloppily
>put together stuff only encourages laziness. It would be one thing if they
>were critiquing the writing elements, but they aren't. I suspect the real
>issue is that neither of them even knows what I am talking about, which
>scares me even more.
>
>My sons substitute teacher last year corrected his spelling on an essay -
>and SHE WAS WRONG. < sounds of TBird slamming her head into the desk > The
>school supply list for First Grade had no fewer than 4 misspellings!
>
>And we wonder why our president can't put a sentence together!
>
>TBird <---- argh
>
Gotta disagree, T.
JK is a competent writer, who tells a great story that engages readers at an
emotional level.
Later books could have used closer editing, true, but best-selling authors who
aren't edited enough are rife in the buisness.
And the Brits, on the whole, don't edit as much anyway.
I side with Mimi and her daughter. Anything that gets kids to read is okay by
me. I was even willing to tolerate R.L. Stine. And those books were *really*
not well-written and formulaic in the extreme. (I know some authors who wrote
them, who were given the formula to follow.)
MIllions of kids who had never even opened a book before are following Harry
Potter--and in between volumes are seeking out other books. Reading is a
habit--and the trick these days is to get kids to get into it.
MHO, as an editor.
GinjerB
Jerri
> JK is a competent writer, who tells a great
> story that engages readers at an
> emotional level. Later books could have
> used closer editing, true, but best-selling
> authors who aren't edited enough are
> rife in the buisness. And the Brits, on
> the whole, don't edit as much anyway.
Sitting here in the peanut gallery, I am agreeing. JK's stuff is getting
kids to read and that's important. What's *very nice* about her stuff is
that an adult can read it and not get saccharine poisoning, and actually
enjoy it. In fact I would say that the latter books are getting kind of on
the dark side for young kids ... but I would never keep them from reading
those books. I don't care about the editing. Whatever JK is doing doesn't
clang against my sensibilities at all. Which reminds me, I need to get my
name on the wait list at the library for the next in the series. That wait
list gets LONG.
Jerri
GinjerB
>Date: Thu, Aug 26, 2004 11:22 EDT
>Message-id: <xZudnVZzWcf...@gbronline.com>
As the wait for the book gets longer, too! <g>
GinjerB
Lee Brant
towards the delights of reading is a good thing. Badly written and
formulaic books and all. The kids will eventually acquire better tastes,
just look at the things they eat!
Donna
> Ginjer, as a parent, I heartily agree! Anything that will turn a child
> towards the delights of reading is a good thing. Badly written and
> formulaic books and all. The kids will eventually acquire better tastes,
> just look at the things they eat!
That's the information I don't have -- are children moving on from Harry
Potter to other books, or do they just read Harry Potter because it's the
trend and then wait for the next book.
Are we actually creating a generation of readers, or just a generation of
Harry Potter fans?
Donna
Lee Brant
everything before he started on HP. I don't think the younger kids are
reading it because it's a trend. They would simply wait for the movies.
There are other series out there that are capitalizing on the HP phenomenon.
MHO only.
I do know that the kids are discussing what they read, at least in my
house. HP, LoTR, Princess Diary(ies), A Series of Unfortunate Events. The
kids are swapping books, and encouraging each other with new books. When I
say kids, I'm not talking only about mine, but those in the neighborhood,
who wind up in my kitchen, and walk out with the books.
Lee
"Donna" <dle...@verizon.fishnet> wrote in message
news:DBuXc.11458$%11.1791@trnddc02...
Susan Stansfield
In article <20040826105729...@mb-m29.aol.com>, gin...@aol.com
(GinjerB) wrote:
I'm with you on this one, Ginjer.
Susan
(likes the Hary Potter series)
Darth Maul's Highlander Site:
http://pub54.ezboard.com/fdarthscommunityfrm20
Joe Heimann
I have not seen any reports directly on the reading habits of Harry
Potter readers past the HP books. But, book sales figures and library
usage statistics don't seem to be improving, especially for children's
and young adult books. Some reports seem to have both sales and library
circulation going down, even with the popularity of the Potter books.
Remains to be seen if there is any moving on to other reading material.
So they do get kids reading, but may have little influence on further
reading so far. On an informal basis, my two sons who were reading
before the Potter books came out, have said many of the kids they know
read Harry Potter, but not too much else.
> Donna
Joe
Jerri
> On an informal basis, my two sons who
> were reading before the Potter books
> came out, have said many of the kids they know
> read Harry Potter, but not too much else.
Then those kids probably wouldn't have read anything at all. If nothing
else, the sheer length of the Harry Potter novels gives the little darlings
exercise in moving their lips.
Jerri [always has to correct Harry Pottery into Harry Potter when typing]
GinjerB
>Date: Thu, Aug 26, 2004 19:44 EDT
>Message-id: <DBuXc.11458$%11.1791@trnddc02>
"Generation" may be too global of a term, but readers *are* being created--at
least readers in the genre that I happen to work in, so I'm happy! <g>
There is a definite boom in tween and YA fantasy in what is called "Chapter
Books" (which means actual books, not books with pictures.)
The Artemis Fowl series, the Eragon series (written by a young man who was
about 19 when he wrote the fist book, if I remember correctly) Garth Nix, who
always sold well in Australia but is now a best-seller in the States too, and
most recently GP Taylor, the Shadowmancer guy, all owe their success to
Rowling.
Lemoney Snickett, OTOH, probably has slightly different roots, but those books
too, have sold in quantities that a few years ago would not have been expected
for a "best-selling" kid's book.
Will these kids continue to read? Time will tell. YA and Tween fantasy appeals
to the concerns of that age. If the fans of Harry Potter find "adult"
literature that speaks to what concerns or interests them when they are older,
they will continue to read, since they will have "learned" that reading is an
enjoyable and rewarding pastime.
I know that it can happen--the crime fiction writer James Elroy is an
example--but in general I don't think there are very many adults who are
regular readers who did not "get the habit" when they were children...
GinjerB
GinjerB
>Date: Fri, Aug 27, 2004 02:06 EDT
>Message-id: <412e...@news-1.oit.umass.edu>
Actually, Joe, I can't speak to libraries, but sales-wise, that's not the case.
YA literature is *the* boom category.
GinjerB
TBird
"Donna" <dle...@verizon.fishnet> wrote in message
news:DBuXc.11458$%11.1791@trnddc02...
> > Ginjer, as a parent, I heartily agree! Anything that will turn a child
> > towards the delights of reading is a good thing. Badly written and
> > formulaic books and all. The kids will eventually acquire better
tastes,
> > just look at the things they eat!
There are just so many other choices.
And I don't object to them reading HP, I object to them thinking that every
piece of dialogue needs and adverb attached, she wrote, frustrated.
>
> That's the information I don't have -- are children moving on from Harry
> Potter to other books, or do they just read Harry Potter because it's the
> trend and then wait for the next book.
>
> Are we actually creating a generation of readers, or just a generation of
> Harry Potter fans?
My kids are actually reading the Star Wars kid mini novels and loving them.
I can read those out loud without feeling like I'm climbing a hill of loose
pebbles.
I am a Harry Potter fan.
And am not a fan of JKR's writing style.
>
> Donna
TBird <---- picky
>
>
HiRene23
>Reading is a
>habit--and the trick these days is to get kids to get into it.
And sometimes.. people just aren't readers and never will be.
As long as I can remember, I've loved reading. Of course my offspring would be
the same. NOT. And I really really did all the right things.. or so I
thought. From infancy on, neither of my children ever went to bed without
having books read to them. They enjoyed it, had lots of favorites, eventually
we took turns reading, and ultimately they would read on their own. Then
offspring #2 slowly but surely stops. No reading outside of what was required
for school. I took her to the bookstore (she looked at magazines), I would
bring her books that I picked out (they'd stay untouched). It just wasn't her
thing. I don't get it, never will get it, but I have accepted it.
This is how I got into the HP books. I bought the first one to read with her.
She had no interest in continuing, but I did.
Now the other one just told me that he bought a giant poster of Middle Earth
for his dorm room wall. ;)
Rene
Joe Heimann
> GinjerB
Are those sales figures in total dollars or number of books sold? The
figures I saw and mentioned had the dollar totals up due to the increased
prices on the books, but the number of books sold holding about even.
Not all reports I have seen agree, so as I mentioned, some reports seem
to have show no improvement, not all.
Joe
Jette Goldie
"AMc in CA" <amc...@aol.compost> wrote in message
news:20040824161127...@mb-m27.aol.com...
>
> http://abcnews.go.com/wire/US/ap20040824_1060.html
>
> Anyone have experience with boy or girl-only educational settings?
>
me.
Primary (age 5 - 11) public school system. Mixed genders.
Secondary (age 12 - 16/18) - *Public* (ie. fee paying, private)
girls only school. (scholarship pupil - my folks were working
class and couldn't afford that kind of education) - but only
for a few terms. Then I went back to a Comprehensive
(public) school.
Good points to single gender? None of that "girls don't do"
nonsense. No being too shy in science class because boys
don't like swots. We learned to value ourselves *for ourselves*
not for our dating-potential.
Bad points? Well, not a problem for me, with only brothers
for siblings (at that point) and mostly boys as playmates
(I was the only girl for several streets around), but hubby
was also a Public school student (boys only in his case).
He missed out on a lot of male/female socialisation stuff
and certain kinds of woman are a mystery to him. (until
recently he didn't understand what folks meant when they
told him someone was a "Bunny Boiler")
>Here's my 2 cents' worth. I went to public schools all my life. In first
grade,
>they combined & then re-divided the 2 first grade classes so one was
boys-only
>& the other was girls only. I survived. Probably did better, in fact.
Speaking
>also as a former elementary school teacher, I'd support separate classes
for
>the core subjects (english/reading, math & science) & combined classes for
the
>other subjects. Hopefully, in that way, all students would have their best
>chance at mastering the basics while still learning the social skills
required
>in a society that isn't gender-segregated.
Those awkward years around puberty are when girls
start to "fail" to do well in front of male classmates,
while boys start to "act up" to impress the girls.
--
Jette
"Work for Peace and remain Fiercely Loving" - Jim Byrnes
je...@blueyonder.co.uk
http://www.jette.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/
Jette Goldie
"Lee Brant" <leeb...@tampabay.rr.com> wrote
> I understand about the math and sciences being geared more towards boy,
but
> Alissah is enrolled in advanced math, science an d literature classes.
> There are 2 girls in the science class, and 6 in the math class. Both
class
> have nearly 30 students. This tells me something. Alissah loves the work
> and she works very hard, two to three hours a night for homework <in sixth
> grade>, but where are the rest of the girls.
>
> Are they not interested, or not encouraged? What are they taking? Why?
> What would they take if it were a girls only school? Would these classes
> even be available to Alissah if there were only two girls attending?
Speaking from personal experience, it's not that science isn't
*geared* for girls - but that in a mixed gender class, girls have
a bad habit of *not doing well* in front of their male classmates.
I remember my younger sister (mixed gender classes all the
way through school) sneering at her teacher's injuction to
work on her maths for the sake of a possible college place
"boys DON'T DATE smart girls" was her reply. I tell ye, my
younger sis uses more mental energy working out how to
get men to do things for her than it would take for her to do
things herself - if only she'd learn (but she won't, because
"men don't like smart women"). She didn't get this from our
parents, she didn't get it from her school teachers - she got
it from her classmates.
Jette Goldie
"TBird" <nos...@here.net> wrote
> I totally agree about the teachers. Godhelpme, but Mimi and her daughter
> are both teachers...and GAH. We constantly fight about the Harry Potter
> books. My stance is; Great stories, so poorly written I want to break out
a
> red pen and correct them. Their stance is: As long as the kids are
reading,
> who cares what they read? *I* do. *I* care. Because reading that
sloppily
> put together stuff only encourages laziness. It would be one thing if
they
> were critiquing the writing elements, but they aren't. I suspect the real
> issue is that neither of them even knows what I am talking about, which
> scares me even more.
My old English teacher would have agreed with Mimi - she
called the "pulp" novels and comic books "mental chewing
gum - they keep the mind in shape for the mental steak pie".
Since she numbered =several= world class novelists among
her previous students I'd say she did OK by them.
If Harry Potter gets them reading, the thing to do =then= is to
feed the appetite that Ms Rowling has awoken with something
more. Consider HP the little nibble that gets the juices flowing
for a good hearty dinner.
(lunch with your old school teacher and the author Nigel Tranter
is a scary thing when you are a 16 year old girl with ambitions to
be a writer <g>)
Donna
little too well when you read:
> Since she numbered
as "murdered"
> =several= world class novelists among
> her previous students I'd say she did OK by them.
Wonder if I can get a refill of this stuff... <g>
Donna
Donna
> Speaking from personal experience, it's not that science isn't
> *geared* for girls - but that in a mixed gender class, girls have
> a bad habit of *not doing well* in front of their male classmates.
> I remember my younger sister (mixed gender classes all the
> way through school) sneering at her teacher's injuction to
> work on her maths for the sake of a possible college place
> "boys DON'T DATE smart girls" was her reply. I tell ye, my
> younger sis uses more mental energy working out how to
> get men to do things for her than it would take for her to do
> things herself - if only she'd learn (but she won't, because
> "men don't like smart women"). She didn't get this from our
> parents, she didn't get it from her school teachers - she got
> it from her classmates.
::pouty Barbie voice on::
Math is hard!
::pouty Barbie voice off::
Donna
(still hasn't forgiven her eldest niece, the winner of the county
math/science prize her senior year, for majoring in early childhood
education just because ::pouty Barbie voice on:: Kids are cute! ::pouty
Barbie voice off::)
GinjerB
>Date: 8/27/04 10:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <20040827222500...@mb-m18.aol.com>
Like me, my brother is a reader, as is his wife. But I'd say that only two and
a half of their five kids grew up to be readers. (one daughter is still in med
school and really doesn't have too much time for anything but that at the
moment! We'll seee waht happens afterwards!)
GinjerB
GinjerB
>Date: 8/28/04 12:22 AM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <4130...@news-1.oit.umass.edu>
Mass market sales are down, but mass market sales are down in all
catergories...
GinjerB
MizKrysti
>From: "Donna" dle...@verizon.fishnet
>
>Donna
>(still hasn't forgiven her eldest niece, the winner of the county
>math/science prize her senior year, for majoring in early childhood
>education just because ::pouty Barbie voice on:: Kids are cute! ::pouty
>Barbie voice off::)
I'll confess to being really pissed that my math/science whiz daughter did
the very same thing...but not because she thought kids were cute. As she
pointed out to me, it was her early teachers that instilled the desire to learn
and excel at those topics. She wanted to 'educate' more children in the same
way.
MizKrysti
Jerri
> Those awkward years around puberty
> are when girls start to "fail" to do well
> in front of male classmates, while boys
> start to "act up" to impress the girls.
I guess that I and the girls in my classes forgot to fail to do well in
front of our male classmates, and the boys kind of forgot to act up to
impress us. Gunning for grades was the name of the game. Yup. When you hang
out with the debate team, your priorities are a little different. Just a
little.
Jerri
Jette Goldie
"Donna" <dle...@verizon.fishnet> wrote in message
LOL - I think I'll stick to ibuprofen and caffeine!
--
Jette (jet-lagged)
Donna
> I'll confess to being really pissed that my math/science whiz daughter
did
> the very same thing...but not because she thought kids were cute. As she
> pointed out to me, it was her early teachers that instilled the desire to
learn
> and excel at those topics. She wanted to 'educate' more children in the
same
> way.
It was the stodgy old men who taught nearly all of my junior high, high
school and college math and science classes that tried to turn off my desire
to excel at those topics. And in the end they succeeded. I began college
as a computer engineering major and finished with a degree in English lit.
Not one of my computer science, physics or calculus classes was taught by a
woman. And while I know that female teachers can be just as stodgy and
boring as male ones, I do wonder if I would've tried harder to stay in the
department if I'd had a great female role model instead of a bunch of
neanderthals who gave me the distinct impression I was taking up valuable
space that could be better used by a man.
Donna
(granted, it hadn't been *that* long since that college had gone co-ed, so
they probably *were* bitter that I was taking up space that had
traditionally been male)
Jette Goldie
"Donna" <dle...@verizon.fishnet> wrote in message
I had rather the opposite situation - there was a big *push*
to get girls into Science when I was at school. I'm bright,
I *can* do maths, physics, etc, so of course I got shoved
into that stream. At the same time I was excelling in Latin,
English and Art. Ended up with four separate offers for
Uni, in four different subjects, and couldn't choose between
them. I was being steered into the Sciences..... but I
realise now that my strengths are in the Humanities. I wish
my Latin master had pushed harder, or that I had been *less*
able in Science. (if you do *good* in too many subjects, it
makes it hard to drop your weaker subjects and concentrate
on your real strengths). End result? I didn't go to Uni, didn't
graduate and ended up as an over-qualified clerk for too
many years, not qualified enough (or confident enough) to
push for the jobs that would have *really* suited me.
9 O levels and 5 Highers - but no Degree.
Little bro had to fight for everything - he's bright (IQ exactly
ONE point below mine) but dyslexic. End result, =he= struggled
his way through Uni and graduated PhD in his chosen subjects
(microbiology and biochemistry).
So now I'm a "late bloomer" with a HND in Land Law and
Conveyancing....... maybe I'll use it as part credit and
get that Degree one day in the Open University. History
looks interesting.
--
Jette
Fuzzy
<j...@blueyonder.com.uk> wrote:
> but hubby
>was also a Public school student (boys only in his case).
>He missed out on a lot of male/female socialisation stuff
>and certain kinds of woman are a mystery to him. (until
>recently he didn't understand what folks meant when they
>told him someone was a "Bunny Boiler")
>
Um, what is a Bunny Boiler? Does it have to do with the rabbit dying?
Gabby
Jerri
> Um, what is a Bunny Boiler? Does
> it have to do with the rabbit dying?
Unless it refers to the role Glenn Close played in Fatal Attraction, I am
totally in the dark.
Jerri
Jette Goldie
"Jerri" <nooneh...@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:78GdncwRHPW...@gbronline.com...
Yup, the kind of woman as played by Glenn in that movie - they
exist in RL as well as fiction.
--
Jette Goldie
je...@blueyonder.co.uk
Some people are like Slinkies . . . not really good for anything, but you
still can't help but smile when you see one tumble down the stairs.