AOQ Firefly Review 5: "Safe"
Arbitrar Of Quality
Season One, Episode 5: "Safe"
(or "River weighs the same as a duck")
Writer: Drew Z. Greenberg
Director: Michael Grossman
The teaser lets us know it'll be a Simon & River episode through the
ever-popular device of the Opening Flashback. Fathers who don't have
series named after them are generally either deadbeats or evil, and
Mr. Tam will prove to be no exception. I do like the way this opening
sets the stage; the young versions of our heroes are nothing special,
but what is neatly set up here is that it encapsulates the way Dad can
be an affectionate and encouraging father at the same time as he sees
his children primarily as status symbols. Transition into River
screaming, as usual... and it turns out she's just flipping out about
medical tests and her outfit, rather than about unseen monsters or
whatever. Understandable concerns, but with the volume and the
poetics turned way up. This episode she's generally just coherent
enough that the character (and actor's) natural magnetism can do the
rest as far as making her easy to watch. As Mal says a couple scenes
later, "is it bad that what she said made perfect sense to me?" Well,
most of her lines do. I don't think "Safe" works as well as it
should, but as far as its place in the series, it's an important one
in River's arc, and that makes it valuable.
Mal conveys some of the audience's impatience with the non-stop crazy
while also showing that we're willing to be tolerant of it, as long as
it's kept in the background and isn't too inconvenient (ooh, just
noticed the possibly unintentional parallel to her real dad). He's
mainly worried about her spooking the cows, and exposition establishes
that "Safe" takes place three weeks after "Shindig," once everyone's
had time to get thoroughly sick of the work involved in crating an
entire herd of cattle across space. It's a nice bit of connection
(easily ruined by, say, showing episodes out of order) with the
previous episode; we see them pick up cargo one week at the end of one
mostly stand-alone story, and we see them make the delivery as a
springboard into a new mostly stand-alone story. I like it when shows
do that. I'm not a fan of bodily output related humor, but the
various cow-shit jokes in the early going get a rueful smile from me,
because, hey, it is indeed one of the problems inherent in dealing
with large animals, the kind of less glamorous detail that sweeping
epics, i.e. westerns and space operas, don't usually make time for.
One of the advantages to the cows is that you get to smack 'em,
though. I think this episode is the one that cemented for me that no
matter what he did, I was going to find Jayne hilarious under all
circumstances, and laugh pretty much every time he opened his mouth.
It doesn't matter who he's pushing around, stealing from, etc., he's
one of the most consistently funny characters I can think of at the
moment in any medium.
So our doctor wanders a little, and as with the majority of Simon-
centric stories, River (in a rather hideous costume) is the driving
force, literally leading the direction the episode goes. One is like
a behavioral experimenter, just wanting to stand back and, if there're
no visible signs of distress, see where things go, try not to
interfere during the rare occasions when she's having a good time.
That sense is strong during the dance, prefaced by a little moment in
which River looks down and talks to herself for a few seconds, like
she's doing computations to assess the situation and figure out the
music. This is an arty episode overall, and no more so than here,
cutting back and forth between the gunfight and the music. The tune
is catchy, although a little too repetitious for such a long montage.
Things of course fall apart at the same moment on both stories, and in
both cases in unexpected ways, the kind of things the audience wasn't
quite paying attention to.
I'm perhaps happier than I should be to see that Mal managed to grab
the money, despite it obviously not being the foremost thing on his
mind. The dying-Book plot is a weak part of "Safe" for me, especially
given that it's over so quickly to make room for Simon's stuff. He
gets a few good death's-door lines, but I can't say the show ever
convinced me to be worried about him. Kaylee's concern gets closer
to passing the feelings on to us, as usual, but still not quite
there. The plotting also doesn't make much sense to me, with Mal
eager to rush off and suspensefully abandon Simon and River before
even knowing where they're going - space is big enough that it does
help to have a direction in mind. Why not fly around and take a quick
look for the outlaws while arguing about where to take the shepherd?
(Although a bumpy ride might not be the best thing for him.) The end
of the episode suggests that they were easy to find; is that a longer
shot than going to the Alliance? Mal agreeing to the "not an option"
solution tells us something worthwhile about him, but the rest of the
story is all about creating suspense for its own sake, and loudly
raising questions about mysterious-past guy that the series clearly
has no intention of answering so early.
An even stronger sense of wondering whether there's really a point
comes during the reflection-intensive shot in which our crew watch the
operation from the outside. It's a scene that's brief enough that one
wonders whether it was written specifically so Michael could have his
big arty director moment. It looks good enough that I don't really
mind, honestly. But much like the subplot it's part of, it's like a
Cliff Notes version of a plot.
Back planetside is where the main action happens. There are also
repeated flashbacks to Simon as a doctor (he seems young to already be
a top-of-the-line surgeon, rather than a very promising student or
resident or something) trying to save River for the first time. I'm
not fond of the way his parents are such cartoons. "Safe" is played
in such broad strokes, differentiating between the good family
(biological and found) and the very bad, and never more so than here.
But Maher's delivery helps a lot in making us care about him anyway,
combining sarcasm and indignation in a way that does great things with
lines like "did you have a good time at the D'arbanville's ball this
year? River thought it was duller than last year. But since we don't
know anybody named D'arbanville, I'm having trouble judging. Did you
even *read* these?!" That provides a link to his repeated snark about
having been kidnapped, in the present. And that's where we get the
episode's best scene, and it's set up as its central moment. River
talks, at length, about what she's going through. This is the closest
we've gotten to seeing how much she understands about what's
happening, and how much she appreciates what her brother's done for
her, and still does. "I get confused. I remember everything, I
remember too much, and... some of it's made up, and... some of it
can't be quantified..." It's heartbreaking watching how hard she's
struggling to keep her fleeting grasp on the signal amidst all the
noise, and the catch in her voice suggests that she's about to cry
again but is, for the moment, barely able to hold it back. Then Simon
looks like he's been hit in the gut after "Daddy will come and take us
home." So, is that line meant as a sign that she's not oriented to
time and place like it seemed, or has he just been shielding her from
parts of the story? It works either way. And then the repeated
desperate-sounding insistence that "I'll get better" makes the viewer
fervently want to believe that it's true, especially when it's
followed by the poison joke. Get better, River. We're hoping for
you.
The actual setting is less successful at being interesting or in ever
seeming like a compelling temptation for Simon, particularly when it's
full of monotone platitude-spewing non-characters like Doralee. Then
the end of the episode throws in another element, and gives us a Bible-
thumping mob as its villain. The scenes are okay enough, but they
come out of nowhere. The villagers, kidnappers and passive dwellers
alike, end up as one-note as the Tam parents did, all in favor of
murder even after Simon puts himself on the pyre. Which itself is a
symbolic demonstration of stuff we already knew four episodes ago.
One bit that made me laugh was River pretty much sealing their fate by
reading the patron's sordid story; okay, what could we possibly do to
make the situation more hopeless? Of course, our heroes are
conveniently along at exactly the right moment to disperse the crowd
and crack a few God jokes. Entertaining, but it seems empty.
Sometimes it comes across as very clever when Mutant Enemy shows
thread certain words throughout the dialogue of an episode to mean
different things: "smooth/simple," "home," and of course "safe."
Sometimes it just seems like a sketch in place of real writing, a
shorthand to try to manufacture nuance and meaning where there's not
much there. I feel more of the latter than the former this time.
Quotes worth quoting:
- "You can't just dig into me, shove twenty needles in my eyes, and
ask me what I see!"
- "Dear Diary: Today I was pompous and my sister was crazy"
- "I'm sorry, Dad. You know I would never have tried to save River's
life if I had known there was a *dinner party* at risk"
The shooting script has several scenes that didn't make it into the
final version, and vice versa.
So...
One-sentence summary: It's easy to remember the worthwhile stuff and
forget the chaff, so it's very close to a Good, but...
AOQ rating: Decent
[Ratings so far:
1) "Serenity" - Excellent
2) "The Train Job" - Good
3) "Bushwhacked" - Decent
4) "Shindig" - Good
5) "Safe" - Decent]
Donny Macro
"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in message
news:1176419652.7...@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> FIREFLY
> Season One, Episode 5: "Safe"
> (or "River weighs the same as a duck")
> Writer: Drew Z. Greenberg
> Director: Michael Grossman
>
> The teaser lets us know it'll be a Simon & River episode through the
> ever-popular device of the Opening Flashback. Fathers who don't have
> series named after them are generally either deadbeats or evil, and
> Mr. Tam will prove to be no exception. I do like the way this opening
> sets the stage; the young versions of our heroes are nothing special,
> but what is neatly set up here is that it encapsulates the way Dad can
> be an affectionate and encouraging father at the same time as he sees
> his children primarily as status symbols. Transition into River
> screaming, as usual... and it turns out she's just flipping out about
> medical tests and her outfit, rather than about unseen monsters or
> whatever. Understandable concerns, but with the volume and the
> poetics turned way up. This episode she's generally just coherent
> enough that the character (and actor's) natural magnetism can do the
> rest as far as making her easy to watch.
Summer is a joy to watch.
>As Mal says a couple scenes
> later, "is it bad that what she said made perfect sense to me?" Well,
> most of her lines do. I don't think "Safe" works as well as it
> should, but as far as its place in the series, it's an important one
> in River's arc, and that makes it valuable.
>
> Mal conveys some of the audience's impatience with the non-stop crazy
> while also showing that we're willing to be tolerant of it, as long as
> it's kept in the background and isn't too inconvenient (ooh, just
> noticed the possibly unintentional parallel to her real dad). He's
> mainly worried about her spooking the cows, and exposition establishes
> that "Safe" takes place three weeks after "Shindig," once everyone's
> had time to get thoroughly sick of the work involved in crating an
> entire herd of cattle across space. It's a nice bit of connection
> (easily ruined by, say, showing episodes out of order) with the
> previous episode; we see them pick up cargo one week at the end of one
> mostly stand-alone story, and we see them make the delivery as a
> springboard into a new mostly stand-alone story. I like it when shows
> do that. I'm not a fan of bodily output related humor, but the
> various cow-shit jokes in the early going get a rueful smile from me,
Personally I love the little in-jokes and references that spring from the
show like "Black market beagles."
> because, hey, it is indeed one of the problems inherent in dealing
> with large animals, the kind of less glamorous detail that sweeping
> epics, i.e. westerns and space operas, don't usually make time for.
> One of the advantages to the cows is that you get to smack 'em,
> though. I think this episode is the one that cemented for me that no
> matter what he did, I was going to find Jayne hilarious under all
> circumstances, and laugh pretty much every time he opened his mouth.
> It doesn't matter who he's pushing around, stealing from, etc., he's
> one of the most consistently funny characters I can think of at the
> moment in any medium.
Yes, the line and delivery about the "best day ever" diary entry are a great
Jayne moment.
and of course Jayne returning what he stole at the end of the episode, and
being glad Simon is "back now, on the ship"
A Zoe moment I love is Zoe's "Possible you're not recalling some of his
previous plans." Nice to know while Zoe is loyal to the captain, she isn't
an idiot.
>
> So our doctor wanders a little, and as with the majority of Simon-
> centric stories, River (in a rather hideous costume) is the driving
> force, literally leading the direction the episode goes. One is like
> a behavioral experimenter, just wanting to stand back and, if there're
> no visible signs of distress, see where things go, try not to
> interfere during the rare occasions when she's having a good time.
> That sense is strong during the dance, prefaced by a little moment in
> which River looks down and talks to herself for a few seconds, like
> she's doing computations to assess the situation and figure out the
> music. This is an arty episode overall, and no more so than here,
> cutting back and forth between the gunfight and the music. The tune
> is catchy, although a little too repetitious for such a long montage.
The tune is "The Sailor's Wife" (had it as a ringtone for awhile) I like
this scene a lot, Simon watching, River's joy at dancing, the Chinese man
who dances with River to this Irish tune...
Summer has nice legs too.
> Things of course fall apart at the same moment on both stories, and in
> both cases in unexpected ways, the kind of things the audience wasn't
> quite paying attention to.
>
> I'm perhaps happier than I should be to see that Mal managed to grab
> the money, despite it obviously not being the foremost thing on his
> mind. The dying-Book plot is a weak part of "Safe" for me, especially
> given that it's over so quickly to make room for Simon's stuff. He
> gets a few good death's-door lines, but I can't say the show ever
> convinced me to be worried about him. Kaylee's concern gets closer
> to passing the feelings on to us, as usual, but still not quite
> there. The plotting also doesn't make much sense to me, with Mal
> eager to rush off and suspensefully abandon Simon and River before
It wasn't very clear how the hill folk know Simon is a doctor. Was the
rustling in the bushes earlier supposed to indicate the hill folk were
spying on them and overheard Mal call him doctor?
That never occurred to me that she could have really thought that was a
possibility or that her father would risk anything like that... I hadn't
considered anything other than she wasn't being completely rational (or
perhaps predicting Mal would be back)... interesting possible interpretation
though.
>And then the repeated
> desperate-sounding insistence that "I'll get better" makes the viewer
> fervently want to believe that it's true, especially when it's
> followed by the poison joke. Get better, River. We're hoping for
> you.
> The actual setting is less successful at being interesting or in ever
> seeming like a compelling temptation for Simon, particularly when it's
> full of monotone platitude-spewing non-characters like Doralee.
I can't stand that "life sometimes takes you places..." stuff ... it is so
distasteful it never struck me as anything that was even supposed to be a
"compelling temptation"
This episode does seem to have a theme about going with whatever life hands
you, like the dinner parties and not questioning their daughter's treatment
by the government of Simon's parents... or perhaps man's will vs. god's
will... or blaming human actions on god's will.
It is not very clearly done though.
>Then
> the end of the episode throws in another element, and gives us a Bible-
> thumping mob as its villain. The scenes are okay enough, but they
> come out of nowhere. The villagers, kidnappers and passive dwellers
> alike, end up as one-note as the Tam parents did, all in favor of
> murder even after Simon puts himself on the pyre. Which itself is a
> symbolic demonstration of stuff we already knew four episodes ago.
> One bit that made me laugh was River pretty much sealing their fate by
> reading the patron's sordid story; okay, what could we possibly do to
> make the situation more hopeless? Of course, our heroes are
> conveniently along at exactly the right moment to disperse the crowd
> and crack a few God jokes. Entertaining, but it seems empty.
Mal's line to Simon at the end about his "talent for alienating folks is
near miraculous" is very difficult to understand... missed it the first
time, took a couple of rewinds to hear what he said, I may be going deaf
though.
Zoe earlier in the episode while talking with Kaylee about leaving Simon and
River, shows that she "agrees" with Jayne that life will be easier without
the fugitives, to convince Mal to go back and get them... nothing points out
how bad an idea is like pointing out Jayne likes it.
The ending dinner scene with Simon getting Kaylee's chair, and River
stealing Jayne's bread, is a really nice touch.
Daniel Damouth
> That sense is strong during the dance, prefaced by a little moment in
> which River looks down and talks to herself for a few seconds, like
> she's doing computations to assess the situation and figure out the
> music.
She was watching the feet while counting the beats to learn the dance.
-Dan Damouth
Apteryx
news:1176419652.7...@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> FIREFLY
> Season One, Episode 5: "Safe"
> (or "River weighs the same as a duck")
I'd say it was a fair cop
> that "Safe" takes place three weeks after "Shindig," once everyone's
> had time to get thoroughly sick of the work involved in crating an
> entire herd of cattle across space. It's a nice bit of connection
> (easily ruined by, say, showing episodes out of order) with the
> previous episode; we see them pick up cargo one week at the end of one
> mostly stand-alone story, and we see them make the delivery as a
> springboard into a new mostly stand-alone story. I like it when shows
> do that.
Wikipedia indicates ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefly_tv ) that in the
original broadcase order, Shindig was 6th, and Safe 7th. Do you mean that in
addition to the original, planned, mangling of the broadcast order, there
were in some places random variations on that planned mangling? If anyone
saw Shindig and Safe seperated by other episodes, I can well imagine that
their reaction on seeing them now, together at last, would be something like
"Ohhhh! So they are the same cows!"
> I'm perhaps happier than I should be to see that Mal managed to grab
> the money, despite it obviously not being the foremost thing on his
> mind. The dying-Book plot is a weak part of "Safe" for me, especially
> given that it's over so quickly to make room for Simon's stuff. He
> gets a few good death's-door lines, but I can't say the show ever
> convinced me to be worried about him.
I guess so. It does better in showing what Mal will go through to get him
treatment (both in risking likely arrest, and in abandoning, for the moment
at least, Simon and River) and in the curiosityt arousing way he gets
treatment when the Alliance check his ID card.
>
> So...
>
> One-sentence summary: It's easy to remember the worthwhile stuff and
> forget the chaff, so it's very close to a Good, but...
>
> AOQ rating: Decent
I'd also rate it Decent, but for me it's not that close to Good. I'm sure
its a valuable archive for info on River and all, but not especially
interesting as an episode. The rating I give (4.90) is the same as for
Hellbound, my 70th favourite AtS episode, and it falls between Beauty and
the Beast and Shadow, the 99th and 100th best BtVS episodes.
--
Apteryx
chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu
In alt.tv.firefly Arbitrar Of Quality <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
> FIREFLY
> Season One, Episode 5: "Safe"
> (or "River weighs the same as a duck")
> Writer: Drew Z. Greenberg
> Director: Michael Grossman
.
> Mr. Tam will prove to be no exception. I do like the way this opening
> sets the stage; the young versions of our heroes are nothing special,
As I always say, anytime child actors appear who don't actually cause
physical pain in the viewer, I count it as a win.
> but what is neatly set up here is that it encapsulates the way Dad can
> be an affectionate and encouraging father at the same time as he sees
> his children primarily as status symbols.
I'm sure he was a loving father under all normal circumstances. It was
only when put under pressure that he revealed his weakness, refusing to
even consider Simon's suspicions because they would cause too much mental,
social and material pain. Mal is obviously the opposite, a grumpy and
less than affectionate father-figure who, when put to the test, will risk
his life for his family. I think the contrast would have worked better if
Mal was even grumpier and less affectionate to the Tam kids and Book early
in the episode. But maybe that would have made the contrast too neat and
simplistic?
> do that. I'm not a fan of bodily output related humor, but the
> various cow-shit jokes in the early going get a rueful smile from me,
I especially liked it when Simon steps in a cow-pat and Jayne tells him
"About time you broke in them pretty shoes!" By the end of this episode
Simon will be a lot more broken-in than that.
> though. I think this episode is the one that cemented for me that no
> matter what he did, I was going to find Jayne hilarious under all
> circumstances, and laugh pretty much every time he opened his mouth.
Yep.
> music. This is an arty episode overall, and no more so than here,
> cutting back and forth between the gunfight and the music. The tune
> is catchy, although a little too repetitious for such a long montage.
A version of that tune is available on the Firefly soundtrack CD, I
believe. (Though incomprehensibly, the greatest song in the 'verse is
not. You know the one I mean.)
> One bit that made me laugh was River pretty much sealing their fate by
> reading the patron's sordid story; okay, what could we possibly do to
> make the situation more hopeless?
And before that, River knows what happened to the mute little girl, but
doesn't understand how the hill folk will react to her knowledge.
Obviously River can "read" people, but either she doesn't read everything,
or else she doesn't understand everything she reads, or (most likely)
both. And given how smart she is, if she doesn't understand what she
reads, the most likely explanation is not stupidity but trauma-induced
mental problems. If Bushwhacked showed us that River is not just crazy
but psychic, Safe shows us that she's not just psychic but also crazy.
> AOQ rating: Decent
Decent for me too.
I'm going out of town and will have little or no Usenet access until the
middle of next week. Y'all have fun without me!
--Chris
______________________________________________________________________
chrisg [at] gwu.edu On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog.
C.O.Jones
> Wikipedia indicates ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefly_tv ) that in the
> original broadcase order, Shindig was 6th, and Safe 7th. Do you mean that in
> addition to the original, planned, mangling of the broadcast order, there
> were in some places random variations on that planned mangling? If anyone
> saw Shindig and Safe seperated by other episodes, I can well imagine that
> their reaction on seeing them now, together at last, would be something like
> "Ohhhh! So they are the same cows!"
Imagine the confusion of us Original Viewers watching the opening
credits every week, wondering "What is with that girl in the box?"
--
////////// \\\\\\\\\\\
The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity.
-- Harlan Ellison
Arbitrar Of Quality
wrote:
> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in messagenews:1176419652.7...@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
Then Simon
> > looks like he's been hit in the gut after "Daddy will come and take us
> > home." So, is that line meant as a sign that she's not oriented to
> > time and place like it seemed, or has he just been shielding her from
> > parts of the story? It works either way.
>
> That never occurred to me that she could have really thought that was a
> possibility or that her father would risk anything like that... I hadn't
> considered anything other than she wasn't being completely rational (or
> perhaps predicting Mal would be back)... interesting possible interpretation
> though.
The first time I watched it, I figured she'd had a moment of clarity
and seems to be rational, and then we're reminded of how far she still
has to go when thinks she's still a kid on whatever planet they come
from. Hadn't thought of Mal as "daddy."
> > The actual setting is less successful at being interesting or in ever
> > seeming like a compelling temptation for Simon, particularly when it's
> > full of monotone platitude-spewing non-characters like Doralee.
>
> I can't stand that "life sometimes takes you places..." stuff ... it is so
> distasteful it never struck me as anything that was even supposed to be a
> "compelling temptation"
You don't think presenting people who need and value a doctor and take
care of anyone their less savory colleagues bring in, unquestioning,
was meant to, at least momentarily, seem like they might be good
people? I agree that in execution it comes off as thoroughly
distasteful, and fortunately, Simon never really forgets the reason
he's there even as he's helping.
> Zoe earlier in the episode while talking with Kaylee about leaving Simon and
> River, shows that she "agrees" with Jayne that life will be easier without
> the fugitives, to convince Mal to go back and get them... nothing points out
> how bad an idea is like pointing out Jayne likes it.
Putting "agree" in quotes is a different spin on it that makes Zoe
come off better, but if that was the intention, it's not made clear at
all.
-AOQ
Arbitrar Of Quality
> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in messagenews:1176419652.7...@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>
> > had time to get thoroughly sick of the work involved in crating an
> > entire herd of cattle across space. It's a nice bit of connection
> > (easily ruined by, say, showing episodes out of order) with the
> > previous episode; we see them pick up cargo one week at the end of one
> > mostly stand-alone story, and we see them make the delivery as a
> > springboard into a new mostly stand-alone story. I like it when shows
> > do that.
>
> original broadcase order, Shindig was 6th, and Safe 7th. Do you mean that in
> addition to the original, planned, mangling of the broadcast order, there
> were in some places random variations on that planned mangling? If anyone
> saw Shindig and Safe seperated by other episodes, I can well imagine that
> their reaction on seeing them now, together at last, would be something like
> "Ohhhh! So they are the same cows!"
I wasn't suggesting that these particular two episodes were separated,
just that the series as a whole has a loose narrative thread that we
benefit from following, even though it's pretty episodic overall.
-AOQ
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
> and seems to be rational, and then we're reminded of how far she still
> has to go when thinks she's still a kid on whatever planet they come
> from. Hadn't thought of Mal as "daddy."
in a story by another author a character wanders around complete gibberish
then they realize a few of the phrases make sense
then they realize most of the phrases would make sense
except theyre spoken in hundreds of different language
near the end they conclude everything the creature has been saying
would make sense if only they had enough referents to understand
perhaps everything river says is perfectly sensible
but she is speaking at a level far above everyone else
and its hard for her to reduce her speech to their level
> > I can't stand that "life sometimes takes you places..." stuff ... it is so
> > distasteful it never struck me as anything that was even supposed to be a
> > "compelling temptation"
>
> You don't think presenting people who need and value a doctor and take
> care of anyone their less savory colleagues bring in, unquestioning,
another problem is the hill people had a well established village
the lawman should be able to find it from satellite photos
i think the people wouldve been tired of having random people kidnapped
and wouldve marched into the village and dealt with them
long before this story
a religious community might well be left alone at their request
but they would not be tolerated if doing crime
like ordering sushi but not paying for it
meow arf meow - they are performing horrible experiments in space
major grubert is watching you - beware the bakalite
impeach the bastard - the airtight garage has you neo
George W Harris
<tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
:"I get confused. I remember everything, I
:remember too much, and... some of it's made up, and... some of it
:can't be quantified..."
And, continues, "...secrets..." which becomes very
important later on. This is the first time we (and Simon) have
explicit evidence of River actually reading minds.
I very much liked the swan. And Simon's vest. And
the discussion over the meaning of 'sanguine'.
--
Doesn't the fact that there are *exactly* 50 states seem a little suspicious?
George W. Harris For actual email address, replace each 'u' with an 'i'
Donny Macro
> On Apr 12, 8:11 pm, "Donny Macro" <donnyma...@gmail.attitude.com>
> wrote:
>> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in
>> messagenews:1176419652.7...@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>
> Then Simon
>> > looks like he's been hit in the gut after "Daddy will come and take us
>> > home." So, is that line meant as a sign that she's not oriented to
>> > time and place like it seemed, or has he just been shielding her from
>> > parts of the story? It works either way.
>>
>> That never occurred to me that she could have really thought that was a
>> possibility or that her father would risk anything like that... I hadn't
>> considered anything other than she wasn't being completely rational (or
>> perhaps predicting Mal would be back)... interesting possible
>> interpretation
>> though.
>
> The first time I watched it, I figured she'd had a moment of clarity
> and seems to be rational, and then we're reminded of how far she still
> has to go when thinks she's still a kid on whatever planet they come
> from. Hadn't thought of Mal as "daddy."
I think your first thought was correct. My first thought the first time I
saw this scene was that she was actually predicting the future in some
way... but I was overthinking River's abilities at that time. It was just
after this scene that it was more strongly hinted to be some kind of mind
reading for the first time.
My first thought about River was that she was being overloaded with
information about "possible futures" that she was "psychic" in that way, not
reading minds (and apparently traumatized by other people's secrets). But
this episode showed me my first thought was wrong.
>
>> > The actual setting is less successful at being interesting or in ever
>> > seeming like a compelling temptation for Simon, particularly when it's
>> > full of monotone platitude-spewing non-characters like Doralee.
>>
>> I can't stand that "life sometimes takes you places..." stuff ... it is
>> so
>> distasteful it never struck me as anything that was even supposed to be a
>> "compelling temptation"
>
> You don't think presenting people who need and value a doctor and take
> care of anyone their less savory colleagues bring in, unquestioning,
> was meant to, at least momentarily, seem like they might be good
> people? I agree that in execution it comes off as thoroughly
> distasteful, and fortunately, Simon never really forgets the reason
> he's there even as he's helping.
Their need for a doctor does not absolve them of their complicity in the
abduction. It may have been intended to seem momentarily "good", but I
didn't even see it as a possibility my first viewing, but I have a personal
issue with that philosophy.
I can't stand the underlying theme of "Forrest Gump" for the same reason,
great movie... lousy philosophy, it is "poetry".. even makes a great visual
with the feather, might even be true for the mentally challenged Gump... but
"life is like a box of chocolates" is no way to live your life. (although it
may be a way to look back on your life).
>
>> Zoe earlier in the episode while talking with Kaylee about leaving Simon
>> and
>> River, shows that she "agrees" with Jayne that life will be easier
>> without
>> the fugitives, to convince Mal to go back and get them... nothing points
>> out
>> how bad an idea is like pointing out Jayne likes it.
>
> Putting "agree" in quotes is a different spin on it that makes Zoe
> come off better, but if that was the intention, it's not made clear at
> all.
If you keep in mind what she says to Kaylee (and how) earlier about Simon
and River being left, when she agrees with Jayne that things will be easier
without them, well... I got the meaning that she would agree with whatever
Mal decided, but she was subtly voting to go back and get them. (of course
it is the literal truth that things would be easier without them aboard in
some ways). Also she knows in most cases if you tell Mal what to do he will
do the opposite.
But that may be me reading more into it than was supposed to be shown, but
it was my first reaction upon seeing this scene.
I may have a nearly unique experience of seeing this series, I downloaded
the shortened version of the Pilot "Serenity" that got leaked online and
watched it before the series was aired, (the one without Mal shooting down
the ship in the intro) then saw about ten minutes of The Train Job when it
first aired, missed bushwacked, next I saw the entire episode "Our Mrs
Reynolds" ... never missed an aired episode after that.. So my first viewing
of "Safe" was well after I had developed an appreciation for the characters.
>
> -AOQ
>
William George Ferguson
tomys des anges <mair_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> The first time I watched it, I figured she'd had a moment of clarity
>> and seems to be rational, and then we're reminded of how far she still
>> has to go when thinks she's still a kid on whatever planet they come
>> from. Hadn't thought of Mal as "daddy."
>
>in a story by another author a character wanders around complete gibberish
>then they realize a few of the phrases make sense
>then they realize most of the phrases would make sense
>except theyre spoken in hundreds of different language
>
>near the end they conclude everything the creature has been saying
>would make sense if only they had enough referents to understand
For the curious, "The End of the Matter" by Alan Dean Foster (a Philip Lynx
story, from before they started to be referred to as 'Philip Lynx Stories')
[show-off George]
>perhaps everything river says is perfectly sensible
>but she is speaking at a level far above everyone else
>and its hard for her to reduce her speech to their level
Not just say, but do.
"Two by two, hands of blue" turns out to be completely meaningful
So does her read of the derelict in Bushwhacked
Peeling all the labels off the food cans seems to be random
As does slashing Jayne across the chest
Until one notes that in both cases she destroyed Blue Sun symbols
All of her conversations in Ariel turn out to have meaning
--
Take my love, take my land, take me where I cannot stand
I don't care, I'm still free, you can't take the sky from me
Take me out to the black, tell them I ain't comin' back
Burn the land, boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me
There's no place I can be, since I found Serenity
Arbitrar Of Quality
wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Apr 2007 21:33:12 -0700, mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten
> tomys des anges <mair_fh...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >perhaps everything river says is perfectly sensible
> >but she is speaking at a level far above everyone else
> >and its hard for her to reduce her speech to their level
>
> Not just say, but do.
>
> "Two by two, hands of blue" turns out to be completely meaningful
> So does her read of the derelict in Bushwhacked
> Peeling all the labels off the food cans seems to be random
> As does slashing Jayne across the chest
> Until one notes that in both cases she destroyed Blue Sun symbols
Ooh, never noticed that.
> All of her conversations in Ariel turn out to have meaning
You'll have to explain that one further, because I'm still lost there.
-AOQ
Venger
Curiously, shouldn't you be the Arbiter of Quality? Arbitrar isn't a word as
such...
Venger
P.S. Though I do enjoy reading your reviews...
Arbitrar Of Quality
> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in messagenews:1176419652.7...@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>
> Curiously, shouldn't you be the Arbiter of Quality? Arbitrar isn't a word as
> such...
It started as a mis-spelling of "arbiter" and took on a life of its
own.
-AOQ
Venger
I like it. Savor the flavor.
Venger
William George Ferguson
wrote:
When you parse her dialogue (ignoring youn River's dialogue in the
flashbacks)
First, she's clearly flashing back to the experiments done on her, and
telling us some things that we don't get more explicitly until Ariel
SIMON
It's okay. It --
RIVER
It's not okay!
You can't just dig into me, shove twenty
needles in my eyes and ask me what I see!
Then she starts reading a crew member and channeling his personality, much
like she did with Badger in Shindig
"No rutting tests? Stupid son of a bitch, dress me up like a gorramn doll!"
One guesses which crew member she's reading here :)
Then Mal shows up and she just gives a simple accurate description of him
(or else she's reading him now :)
"liou koe shway duh biao-tze huh hoe-tze duh bun ur-tze"
(stupid son of a drooling whore and a monkey)
She responds to Mal saying her yelling can make his ears bleed:
"The human body can be drained of blood in 8.6 seconds given adequate
vacuuming systems."
(and this is also very likely a flashback to her experiments and training)
The ship lands and unloads its freight
RIVER Little soul, big world. Eat, sleep, and eat... Many souls.
MAL (to Jayne) Cattle on the ship three weeks, she don't go near 'em.
Suddenly we're on Jiangyin and she's got a driving need to commune with the
beast?
RIVER They weren't cows inside. They were waiting to be, but they forgot.
Now they see the sky and they remember what they are.
That even makes sense to Mal, which worries him some.
I'm not going to walk through all the dialogue at the village, because it's
a major plot driver that what River is saying makes sense in those scenes.
--
You've reached the Tittles. We can't come to the phone right now
If you want to leave a message for Christine, Press 1
For Bentley, Press 2
Or to speak to, or worship, Master Tarfall, Underlord of Pain, Press 3
Arbitrar Of Quality
wrote:
> >> All of her conversations in Ariel turn out to have meaning
>
> >You'll have to explain that one further, because I'm still lost there.
>
> When you parse her dialogue (ignoring youn River's dialogue in the
> flashbacks)
Did you mean that her conversations here make sense after seeing
"Ariel" rather than her dialogue in that episode making sense?
Because it's "Ariel" where River's lines are Greek to me, not "Safe."
-AOQ
One Bit Shy
news:1176419652.7...@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> FIREFLY
> Season One, Episode 5: "Safe"
> I do like the way this opening
> sets the stage; the young versions of our heroes are nothing special,
> but what is neatly set up here is that it encapsulates the way Dad can
> be an affectionate and encouraging father at the same time as he sees
> his children primarily as status symbols.
I liked the kids a lot. River poking her head above the couch made me laugh
out loud right off the bat. Followed quickly by another snort when she
declared they would have to resort to cannibalism. Other lines were quite
amusing too, but more than that, I appreciated how the characters were
defined and could be seen before their worlds were turned upside down.
River, precocious, imaginative & incredibly smart, but neither mean nor vain
about it - oh, and very sane. Simon, smart enough himself, a bit prissy,
just a little exasperated by his sister, but mostly indulgent and loving of
her - patient. Both of them attentive to each other and interested in each
other's lives. It's really a lot to cram into a brief scene, but I thought
this little bit was quite successful in establishing the foundation of their
natural relationship.
The father I didn't give a hoot about. I don't think I'm really supposed
to. It's about River and Simon. Dad is distant - as much a concept as a
real person. A problem for them. Not a haven. They don't know that at the
start. They're kids. He's their father. Dad taking care of them is a
given. But it's one of life's givens that turns up false for them. So it
would likely mess up the story for the audience if we felt any kind of
attachment to him ourselves at this point. We wouldn't believe his later
actions.
> Transition into River
> screaming, as usual... and it turns out she's just flipping out about
> medical tests and her outfit, rather than about unseen monsters or
> whatever. Understandable concerns, but with the volume and the
> poetics turned way up. This episode she's generally just coherent
> enough that the character (and actor's) natural magnetism can do the
> rest as far as making her easy to watch. As Mal says a couple scenes
> later, "is it bad that what she said made perfect sense to me?" Well,
> most of her lines do. I don't think "Safe" works as well as it
> should, but as far as its place in the series, it's an important one
> in River's arc, and that makes it valuable.
River is the best part of the episode for me. Makes it worthwhile.
> Mal conveys some of the audience's impatience with the non-stop crazy
> while also showing that we're willing to be tolerant of it, as long as
> it's kept in the background and isn't too inconvenient (ooh, just
> noticed the possibly unintentional parallel to her real dad). He's
> mainly worried about her spooking the cows,
While I don't think there's anything terribly special about Mal's role this
episode, I do appreciate that the episode appears to get his character back
in order again after a couple of side tracks in The Train Job and Shindig.
Mal is very clear headed this episode, doing a nice job of balancing doing
the "right" thing with doing what's necessary. Worrying about River scaring
the cows is a nice microcosm of his approach this episode. First things
first.
> That sense is strong during the dance, prefaced by a little moment in
> which River looks down and talks to herself for a few seconds, like
> she's doing computations to assess the situation and figure out the
> music.
I think she's watching the footwork and counting the beats. In the teaser
we were told that she had a knack for learning dance steps fast. (Though
I've seen experienced folk dancers do much the same thing. There's enough
commonality in the steps and music to be able to jump in relatively quickly
if one is familiar with the form. Or so it seems. My own lead feet insist
otherwise.)
> This is an arty episode overall, and no more so than here,
> cutting back and forth between the gunfight and the music. The tune
> is catchy, although a little too repetitious
Pretty normal for the style. I rather like it myself.
> for such a long montage.
> Things of course fall apart at the same moment on both stories, and in
> both cases in unexpected ways, the kind of things the audience wasn't
> quite paying attention to.
The unexpected quality is the plot highlight of the episode for me. Book
down and River sensing it from afar are both shocks in their way. But then
they piled on with the completely unexpected extra of Simon - of all
people - being kidnapped. The bag going down over his head definitely made
me jump.
Up to this point I have to say that I was completely engaged in the story -
though I had no idea what purpose it had. I'd also give props to the scene
in the store from swan to post holer. Inara doesn't do much this episode,
but god is she good at just standing around looking beautiful. She's a
vision in this pitiful general store. One subtle thing she does in this
scene is act essentially the same way that Simon does in putting down the
contents of the store. She's just luckier in her timing and less distracted
than Simon, so she avoids offending Kaylee the way Simon does. Simon's
behavior, while it could be better, isn't that awful either - no matter how
hurt Kaylee may be. The incident acts more to pile on the crap in what's
turning out to be a pretty bad day for him - one that presumably forces him
to accept how divorced from his past he truly has become. And poor Simon,
he doesn't even get the chance to try to make amends because, once again,
River demands his attention by going off missing.
Kaylee is pretty wonderful herself in that scene. She starts with a sense
of inferiority about her relative social status to Simon, but converts it
into a wounded pride that won't stand for putting down life on Serenity.
(This episode is much more Simon's story, but it wouldn't be hard to extend
it into more about Kaylee's self image.) I really like her closing line
that uses a backwoods grammar to emphasize the cultural clash between them.
"And if that's what you think of this life, then you can't think much of
them that choose it, can you."
> The dying-Book plot is a weak part of "Safe" for me, especially
> given that it's over so quickly to make room for Simon's stuff.
Aside from using the opportunity to introduce a mystery about Book, I think
the function is to firmly establish Simon's place in the crew. We saw how
Simon got there. And we've seen Mal willingly accept him. (Twice really.
Once in the season opener, and in a different way in the second season
opener.) But now we see his value by his absence. And then Mal validates
it by retrieving Simon at the end because he's part of the crew. Personally
I think that's overkill, but Joss says that the first six episodes of a
season are about establishing.
Structurally it also allows for more parallel scenes, this time with a
medical tone to them and mysterious revelations in both and being stuck
temporarily in foreign worlds in both. The separation and sense of losing
control that the divergent paths show serve to emphasize the comfort and
safety of home that the ultimate reunion brings. The plot framework is
solid and well conceived I think. The details, however, not so much.
> The plotting also doesn't make much sense to me, with Mal
> eager to rush off and suspensefully abandon Simon and River before
> even knowing where they're going - space is big enough that it does
> help to have a direction in mind. Why not fly around and take a quick
> look for the outlaws while arguing about where to take the shepherd?
> (Although a bumpy ride might not be the best thing for him.) The end
> of the episode suggests that they were easy to find; is that a longer
> shot than going to the Alliance? Mal agreeing to the "not an option"
> solution tells us something worthwhile about him, but the rest of the
> story is all about creating suspense for its own sake, and loudly
> raising questions about mysterious-past guy that the series clearly
> has no intention of answering so early.
The suspense about leaving Simon behind was in the minds of the crew and,
maybe, the audience. But what I believe they're showing with Mal is simple
no-nonsense leadership. Take one problem at a time. Book needs immediate
attention. Simon can wait. Take off right away because planet-side has
proven to be unsafe.
Mal's decisions regarding both Book and Simon show a good quality in Mal
that's important to know. He really will go out of his way for his crew.
However, it's useful to note that when Mal tells Simon he came back because
Simon's a member of his crew, that's not just a reflection of a good heart.
Mal has also just been reminded how valuable a doctor on board really can
be. You also go out of your way for a crew member because you really need
your crew.
Joss has emphasized the made family theme in all three of his series. The
families are very different, but one of the elements he seems to emphasize
in all of them is the comrades at arms element where you have the other
guy's back because you really need him to have yours.
> And that's where we get the
> episode's best scene, and it's set up as its central moment. River
> talks, at length, about what she's going through. This is the closest
> we've gotten to seeing how much she understands about what's
> happening, and how much she appreciates what her brother's done for
> her, and still does. "I get confused. I remember everything, I
> remember too much, and... some of it's made up, and... some of it
> can't be quantified..." It's heartbreaking watching how hard she's
> struggling to keep her fleeting grasp on the signal amidst all the
> noise, and the catch in her voice suggests that she's about to cry
> again but is, for the moment, barely able to hold it back. Then Simon
> looks like he's been hit in the gut after "Daddy will come and take us
> home." So, is that line meant as a sign that she's not oriented to
> time and place like it seemed, or has he just been shielding her from
> parts of the story?
The way I took it was that she fell back into confusion then and really was
imagining their father saving them - while simultaneously offering some
Whedonesque foreshadowing of Mal coming back and saving them - perhaps
pointing to Mal as budding father figure.
However, I also note that way back at the beginning of the episode, when Mal
shows up because of potentially spooked cows, River looks at him and says,
"You're not him." I don't know what that's supposed to mean. But so
quickly on the heels of the flashback to her father I suppose it could
represent a conflating of Mal and father in River's mind all along.
> It works either way. And then the repeated
> desperate-sounding insistence that "I'll get better" makes the viewer
> fervently want to believe that it's true, especially when it's
> followed by the poison joke. Get better, River. We're hoping for
> you.
It's been interesting reading comments indicating some reservations about
River's role in the TV series. For me she was the driving force pretty much
from the beginning - albeit sometimes more understated than others - and I
haven't even seen the damned movie. Heh. But, yeah. I'm rooting for you,
River.
> The actual setting is less successful at being interesting or in ever
> seeming like a compelling temptation for Simon, particularly when it's
> full of monotone platitude-spewing non-characters like Doralee. Then
> the end of the episode throws in another element, and gives us a Bible-
> thumping mob as its villain. The scenes are okay enough, but they
> come out of nowhere. The villagers, kidnappers and passive dwellers
> alike, end up as one-note as the Tam parents did, all in favor of
> murder even after Simon puts himself on the pyre. Which itself is a
> symbolic demonstration of stuff we already knew four episodes ago.
> One bit that made me laugh was River pretty much sealing their fate by
> reading the patron's sordid story; okay, what could we possibly do to
> make the situation more hopeless? Of course, our heroes are
> conveniently along at exactly the right moment to disperse the crowd
> and crack a few God jokes. Entertaining, but it seems empty.
I'll give the show some credit for working in several classic contributing
factors to this abbreviated witch hunt story. You've got the ignorance
angle and unthinking religious faith angle, both represented by Doralee.
(She may be non-expressive, but the look of her in that costume is pretty
striking.) And then using witch hunts for self serving purposes as
represented by the Patron.
I suppose the witch hunt idea isn't so bad - it's been used successfully
often enough. But it's so brief that it can't help but come across heavy
handed just to get the elements across before the episode ends. It also
undercuts whatever notion there may have been that the town wasn't all bad
before any such case can be made. Since the episode seemed to have started
down that path, the final effect is rather muddled to my mind.
I also think that the idea suffers a little since, unlike the classic Salem
witches, River actually has scary witchlike powers that aren't clearly
compatible with normal human society. I suppose the real conundrum that
River represents is part of the point of choosing the witch hunt theme. Can
the Serenity family survive with River among them? But even so, there's a
facile quality to the witch hunt metaphor. It draws on a knee jerk reaction
of loathing for River persecution that strikes me as over simplifying the
broader story being told. I feel like we're being told in no uncertain
terms what we must think.
I'm reminded a little of Angel's Hero (written by Minear) that was a bit
heavy handed in its holocaust theme and muddled by using naturally evil
demons as Nazi stand-ins that might have had legitimate (from their point of
view) genetic purity issues. I'd suggest that Joss and company stay away
from such overt persecution stories, but I liked Gingerbread in BtVS, so
what the hell. Just do it better.
> So...
>
> One-sentence summary: It's easy to remember the worthwhile stuff and
> forget the chaff, so it's very close to a Good, but...
>
> AOQ rating: Decent
The flow of this story is way better than Shindig to my mind. I was quite
engaged in it until the kidnapping. And after, it still moved nicely - I
just didn't care for the comment so much. However, the thematic elements
aren't strong for me, and further emphasis on Simon belonging and this is a
family and Mal knows how to act with authority comes across as belaboring in
this episode. The episode ends up feeling pretty empty to me - except for
digging further into River and really showing her mind reading capabilities.
(I loved the cow musing.) Also loved the dancing and a nice supply of
amusing moments - especially from Jayne. That lifts a generally weak
episode to a solid Decent. However, if I recall correctly, I think this is
my least liked Firefly episode.
OBS
Don Sample
Arbitrar Of Quality <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
> On Apr 16, 11:24 am, William George Ferguson <wmgfr...@newsguy.com>
> wrote:
> > On 14 Apr 2007 23:16:06 -0700, "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > >> All of her conversations in Ariel turn out to have meaning
> >
> > >You'll have to explain that one further, because I'm still lost there.
> >
> > When you parse her dialogue (ignoring youn River's dialogue in the
> > flashbacks)
>
> Did you mean that her conversations here make sense after seeing
> "Ariel" rather than her dialogue in that episode making sense?
> Because it's "Ariel" where River's lines are Greek to me, not "Safe."
>
> -AOQ
I just read through all of River's lines in "Ariel" and they pretty much
all make sense, in the larger context of what's going on around them in
the episode.
--
Quando omni flunkus moritati
Visit the Buffy Body Count at <http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/>
Michael Ikeda
news:1328a6o...@news.supernews.com:
> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1176419652.7...@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>> FIREFLY
>> Season One, Episode 5: "Safe"
>
>
> I'll give the show some credit for working in several classic
> contributing factors to this abbreviated witch hunt story.
> You've got the ignorance angle and unthinking religious faith
> angle, both represented by Doralee. (She may be non-expressive,
> but the look of her in that costume is pretty striking.) And
> then using witch hunts for self serving purposes as represented
> by the Patron.
>
One additional thought about this sequence and about the politics of
the general situation in Serenity's universe.
It wasn't actually crazy for the Alliance to look at the situation in
the fringes and decide that everyone would be better off as part of
one big nation...
Of course the implementation of this idea produced less than
desireable results...
--
Michael Ikeda mmi...@erols.com
"Telling a statistician not to use sampling is like telling an
astronomer they can't say there is a moon and stars"
Lynne Billard, past president American Statistical Association
Donny Macro
"Michael Ikeda" <mmi...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:CYqdnWEbAN3M27jb...@rcn.net...
> "One Bit Shy" <O...@nomail.sorry> wrote in
> news:1328a6o...@news.supernews.com:
>
>> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1176419652.7...@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>>> FIREFLY
>>> Season One, Episode 5: "Safe"
>>
>
>>
>> I'll give the show some credit for working in several classic
>> contributing factors to this abbreviated witch hunt story.
>> You've got the ignorance angle and unthinking religious faith
>> angle, both represented by Doralee. (She may be non-expressive,
>> but the look of her in that costume is pretty striking.) And
>> then using witch hunts for self serving purposes as represented
>> by the Patron.
>>
>
> One additional thought about this sequence and about the politics of
> the general situation in Serenity's universe.
>
> It wasn't actually crazy for the Alliance to look at the situation in
> the fringes and decide that everyone would be better off as part of
> one big nation...
>
> Of course the implementation of this idea produced less than
> desireable results...
>
well that is an understatment.
And since the Alliance's idea of how to make things... better, worked
wonders on Miranda...
I think they could have helped if they wanted to without grabbing total
control, and it doesn't look like they helped at all. I mean the settlers in
the hills are still crazy inbred idiots kidnapping people.
Looks like it is more about control then about fixing a few bad situations.
C.O.Jones
<donny...@gmail.attitude.com> wrote:
> > One additional thought about this sequence and about the politics of
> > the general situation in Serenity's universe.
> >
> > It wasn't actually crazy for the Alliance to look at the situation in
> > the fringes and decide that everyone would be better off as part of
> > one big nation...
> >
> > Of course the implementation of this idea produced less than
> > desireable results...
> >
>
> well that is an understatment.
>
> And since the Alliance's idea of how to make things... better, worked
> wonders on Miranda...
>
> I think they could have helped if they wanted to without grabbing total
> control, and it doesn't look like they helped at all. I mean the settlers in
> the hills are still crazy inbred idiots kidnapping people.
> Looks like it is more about control then about fixing a few bad situations.
Government is ALWAYS about control and power. A few vocal indivisuals
in the cabal will always clain that it is about "fixing a bad
situation," it is fixing that situation in THEIR way.
"I'm here to help you cross the street, lady. I don't care that you
don't want to go."
tsm...@wildmail.com
> I suppose the witch hunt idea isn't so bad - it's been used successfully
> often enough. But it's so brief that it can't help but come across heavy
> handed just to get the elements across before the episode ends. It also
> undercuts whatever notion there may have been that the town wasn't all bad
> before any such case can be made. Since the episode seemed to have started
> down that path, the final effect is rather muddled to my mind.
>
> I also think that the idea suffers a little since, unlike the classic Salem
> witches, River actually has scary witchlike powers that aren't clearly
> compatible with normal human society. I suppose the real conundrum that
> River represents is part of the point of choosing the witch hunt theme. Can
> the Serenity family survive with River among them? But even so, there's a
> facile quality to the witch hunt metaphor. It draws on a knee jerk reaction
> of loathing for River persecution that strikes me as over simplifying the
> broader story being told. I feel like we're being told in no uncertain
> terms what we must think.
>
> I'm reminded a little of Angel's Hero (written by Minear) that was a bit
> heavy handed in its holocaust theme and muddled by using naturally evil
> demons as Nazi stand-ins that might have had legitimate (from their point of
> view) genetic purity issues.
I'd rather blame Greenberg for this; he's the one who sucks. (Yes, a
response specifically to throw in a childish one-liner. I can be
shallow.)
Off topic, but I watched "Hero" again a little while ago. Besides the
laziness of wasting loaded (Nazi) imagery as a crutch, I think they
should've tried to find a way to avoid showing the Scourge at all. I
know that a big fight scene at the end is part of the nature of the
show, but they worked incalculably better during the parts of the
episode where they're an unseen force, almost supernatural. (More
supernatural, I should say.)
-AOQ
Don Sample
"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
> FIREFLY
> Season One, Episode 5: "Safe"
> (or "River weighs the same as a duck")
> Writer: Drew Z. Greenberg
> Director: Michael Grossman
>
> Quotes worth quoting:
This is also the episode that gives us:
Mal: What does that make us?
Zoe: Big Damn Heroes, sir.
Mal: Ain't we just.
C.O.Jones
Sample <dsa...@synapse.net> wrote:
> In article <1176419652.7...@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>,
> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
>
> > FIREFLY
> > Season One, Episode 5: "Safe"
> > (or "River weighs the same as a duck")
> > Writer: Drew Z. Greenberg
> > Director: Michael Grossman
> >
> > Quotes worth quoting:
>
> This is also the episode that gives us:
>
> Mal: What does that make us?
> Zoe: Big Damn Heroes, sir.
> Mal: Ain't we just.
Indeed the quote of Firefly quotes!