Hurrah! (Veronica Mars season 2 opener)
reld...@usa.net
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I can't believe nobody else is as excited as I am. I didn't think I'd
be the first one to post about the new VM!
What a great episode! Just one curveball after another.
I was right about who was at the door, though. And I'm glad I was
right. I'm glad Logan went to Veronica for TLC after the horrible
ordeal he had been through. And I'm glad she was his girlfriend all
summer.
I knew there were bound to be complications with Duncan. I knew it
couldn't just be nice, simple LoVe all the time. So I'm not too
disappointed that in the very first episode of the new season, we saw
Veronica break up with Logan and get back together with Duncan. To me,
what this means is that Duncan will function temporarily as the thing
that comes between Veronica and Logan, but in time Logan will
straighten himself out, show Veronica what a great guy he can be, and
LoVe will be on again, on a firmer basis. Duncan isn't the long-haul
guy. I know it, even if the characters don't know it!
It is too bad that Logan has been acting out by playing destructive
pranks with Dick and the Beaver. The thing about the gasoline in the
town swimming pool was just really bad, and I can understand why
Veronica broke up with Logan after that. I also wish he hadn't let his
temper get out of control when she broke up with him. It will be tough
for them to get back together after this. But obstacles are what drama
is all about.
Saint Meg turning into a vindictive bitch surprised me. Of course, her
maliciousness in getting the bus to drive off without Veronica is what
saved Veronica's life. I guess Meg is dead now. Those deaths, plus
the stabbing of Felix earlier, will make for a fascinating year-long
arc.
I think my favorite moment in the episode was when Weevil relented and
gave Veronica a ride. Aaaawww. And he's a fine one to talk about her
screwing 09ers, isn't he? What did he think he was doing with Lilly?
The fact that Lilly's ghost seemingly led Veronica to Weevil was
interesting.
Funniest moment of the episode: Wallace talking about "ganja" in a
Jamaican accent that Bianca Lawson would do well to learn from.
CC looks pretty good in a bikini for someone who has a kid. Where are
her surgical scars, anyway?
That's about all for now. I am so thrilled with this show! What a
strong start for season 2!
Clairel
¶øÑ©†œ§ ÜÎø×
why she had to get a normal job ? also, it seems that the biker gang has
a new leader....
erik
<reld...@usa.net> wrote in message
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> I can't believe nobody else is as excited as I am. I didn't think
> I'd
> be the first one to post about the new VM!
I am at least as excited as you, but I haven't seen it yet. So I
carefully deleted your post in this reply in order not to read
accidentally what happened there and who was at the door :-) I will
come back with my comments later for sure.
Erik.
Ken from Chicago
"erik" <er...@somewhere.com> wrote in message
news:dhg5b0$iho$1...@atlas.ip-plus.net...
>> I can't believe nobody else is as excited as I am. I didn't think I'd
>> be the first one to post about the new VM!
>
> I am at least as excited as you, but I haven't seen it yet. So I carefully
> deleted your post in this reply in order not to read accidentally what
> happened there and who was at the door :-) I will come back with my
> comments later for sure.
>
> Erik.
I switched to the ep during a LOST commercial, hoping VM would be rerun on
one of Viacom's several other networks or streamcast online like EVERYBODY
LOVES CHRIS.
-- Ken from Chicago (pro-Verogan)
Ken from Chicago
""ІЬя╘?oї энЬв"" <j1...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:28104-433...@storefull-3316.bay.webtv.net...
> didnt Veronica's mother take that check from off the table? and is that
> why she had to get a normal job ? also, it seems that the biker gang has
> a new leader....
Yep, Mama Mars stole the check--because they were too stupid to deposit a
50k check immediately.
-- Ken from Chicago
P.S. Would have worked better if Mom had WITHDRAWN that amount from a bank.
KenM47
>
>""¶øÑ©?o§ ÜÎø×"" <j1...@webtv.net> wrote in message
OK.OK. But it was a very nice season opener. Almost made me forget
feeling used and abused with last year's conclusion.
Ken (Brooklyn)
burt...@hotmail.com
Nonsense. LoVe fades, but VD lasts forever!
Seriously, though, I'm cautiously optimistic about last night's
episode. I'm glad that the writers/producers haven't forgotten that
Logan's an asshole, or that the story is about Veronica, not Logan. I'm
sure there'll be much Logan-related drama this seasond, but as long as
they remember that Veronica's romantic relationships are *subplots*,
and don't make the entire show about them, I'll be willing to go along
with whatever they have planned.
Plus, it'll be nice to see Logan in the antagonist role again for a
while. He's very good in it.
reld...@usa.net
--Just because he's a heart-broken rejected lover, does that mean he
has to be an antagonist?
Right now he seems to be assuaging the pain of rejection with Mrs.
Casablancas, and ignoring Veronica & Duncan. But of course he still
really loves Veronica, and sometime this season when she's in bad
trouble Logan will come through for her heroically.
Because nobly rising about his baser impulses is what he does best.
Clairel
TikTok
reld...@usa.net wrote:
>
>
> --Just because he's a heart-broken rejected lover, does that mean he
> has to be an antagonist?
>
Oh great, a transplanted Spike apologist. :)
V broke up with him because he was still doing stupid shit like setting public
swimming pools on fire. That seemed pretty clear-cut to me.
Ken from Chicago
"Ken from Chicago" <kwicker1...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:x5mdnUuUuef...@comcast.com...
Or should that be "Loganica"?
-- Ken from Chicago
Mark Jones
Yup. As my wife said while we watched this episode, they've not forgotten
that Logan is basically an ass. Yeah, he can be sweet when it suits
him--but his inner asshole is never far from the surface. As witnessed by
his violent reaction to Veronica breaking up with him...and the burning of
the pool.
I think Logan _will_ return to an antagonistic role. It won't be the same
as his role early in the first season, but I think there will definitely
some antagonism. He's hurt and he's angry, and we've seen how he expresses
that.
Tim Martin
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> I can't believe nobody else is as excited as I am. I didn't think I'd
> be the first one to post about the new VM!
>
> What a great episode! Just one curveball after another.
>
> I was right about who was at the door, though. And I'm glad I was
> right. I'm glad Logan went to Veronica for TLC after the horrible
> ordeal he had been through. And I'm glad she was his girlfriend all
> summer.
I just started watching the show this summer in reruns, and I must say the
on-again, off-again, on-again, off-again Logan-Veronica thing got a bit
tiresome.
>
> Saint Meg turning into a vindictive bitch surprised me. Of course, her
> maliciousness in getting the bus to drive off without Veronica is what
> saved Veronica's life. I guess Meg is dead now. Those deaths, plus
> the stabbing of Felix earlier, will make for a fascinating year-long
> arc.
Was Meg a major character before this? I was unclear who all was on the bus.
>
> I think my favorite moment in the episode was when Weevil relented and
> gave Veronica a ride. Aaaawww. And he's a fine one to talk about her
> screwing 09ers, isn't he? What did he think he was doing with Lilly?
> The fact that Lilly's ghost seemingly led Veronica to Weevil was
> interesting.
Can you please explain what the 09ers are? The supernatural element really
threw me there.
>
>
> CC looks pretty good in a bikini for someone who has a kid. Where are
> her surgical scars, anyway?
She was fantastic looking. What scars?
Tim
TikTok
Tim Martin wrote:
> <reld...@usa.net> wrote in message
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> Was Meg a major character before this? I was unclear who all was on the bus.
She was only in a couple of eps-- most memorable was when she loaned Veronica
her cheerleading outfit. She was also the girl V saved from being slandered on
an adult website. I thought it was a bit of an about-face for her to be quite
so chilly here.
>
>
> Can you please explain what the 09ers are?
'09' is the suffix of the zip code for the rich part of town. Note that it's
one digit short of an infamous Aaron Spelling show.
>
> >
> > CC looks pretty good in a bikini for someone who has a kid. Where are
> > her surgical scars, anyway?
>
> She was fantastic looking. What scars?
>
I think someone's referring to her having given birth a couple years back, but
I don't know if she actually had a Caesarean or not. Hell, Raquel Welch was a
mother of two before she ever became a sex symbol, so anything's possible.
TT
Randy Money
> <reld...@usa.net> wrote in message
> news:1127960754....@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
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>>I think my favorite moment in the episode was when Weevil relented and
>>gave Veronica a ride. Aaaawww. And he's a fine one to talk about her
>>screwing 09ers, isn't he? What did he think he was doing with Lilly?
>>The fact that Lilly's ghost seemingly led Veronica to Weevil was
>>interesting.
>
>
> Can you please explain what the 09ers are? The supernatural element really
> threw me there.
I think it's short-hand for 90210 types.
>>CC looks pretty good in a bikini for someone who has a kid. Where are
>>her surgical scars, anyway?
>
>
> She was fantastic looking. What scars?
Yeah. What scars? Did she have a Caesarian, or do you expect liposuction
or something post-partum? If the latter, CC sounds to be such a fitness
addict that surgery probably wasn't necessary, not this early in her
life anyway. Maybe when her metabolism down-shifts.
Randy M.
Mitch Simmons
admits it is a rehash idea.
James Craine
reld...@usa.net wrote:
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> Saint Meg turning into a vindictive bitch surprised me. Of course, her
> maliciousness in getting the bus to drive off without Veronica is what
> saved Veronica's life. I guess Meg is dead now. Those deaths, plus
> the stabbing of Felix earlier, will make for a fascinating year-long
> arc.
She should not have been irrational.
Another way to look at the crash is that Meg doomed the bus.
I VM had been on it surely she would have noticed something
wrong and saved the day... don't ya think?
The crash of the bus makes this much darker than I was
expecting. I hope that she can still be witty after all of
the funerals.
>
> I think my favorite moment in the episode was when Weevil relented and
> gave Veronica a ride. Aaaawww. And he's a fine one to talk about her
> screwing 09ers, isn't he? What did he think he was doing with Lilly?
> The fact that Lilly's ghost seemingly led Veronica to Weevil was
> interesting.
Weevil and the gang are guilty of either attempted murder or
aggravated battery. How can Weevil possibly be upset that
Logan killed the guy. Logan would have been justified is
pulling an uzi and killing them all. (Not that I think that
Logan actually killed him, just that it is ok if he did.)
> CC looks pretty good in a bikini for someone who has a kid. Where are
> her surgical scars, anyway?
Dr's Troy and McNamara hid them under the bikini.
>
> That's about all for now. I am so thrilled with this show! What a
> strong start for season 2!
>
> Clairel
Wholey agree.
James Craine
Ken from Chicago wrote:
> ""¶øÑ©?o§ ÜÎø×"" <j1...@webtv.net> wrote in message
And this is after wasting VM's college money. That must be
about 100 grand she owes them. They are better off without her.
To whom was the check made out? Why not stop payment on it
and get another one?
James Craine
reld...@usa.net wrote:
Logan = Spike. And while I'm at it....
Duncan = Rielley
Wallace = Xander
Mr. Mars = Giles
Veronica = Buffy
rich folks = The Master
High School = Hell (nothing new here)
James Craine
Mitch Simmons wrote:
> Yawn......Nncy Drew rip off. At least the new version of NIght Stalker
> admits it is a rehash idea.
>
That's ok as long as it is a very good rip-off.
When did NS admit it is a rehash?
George W Harris
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:Right now he seems to be assuaging the pain of rejection with Mrs.
:Casablancas, and ignoring Veronica & Duncan.
"Can Dick and Beaver come out to play?" Heh.
:
:Clairel
--
/bud...@nirvana.net/h:k
George W. Harris For actual email address, replace each 'u' with an 'i'
Ken from Chicago
"James Craine" <James...@Hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:BSn%e.347588$5N3.1...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
>
> Ken from Chicago wrote:
>
>> ""ІЬя╘?oї энЬв"" <j1...@webtv.net> wrote in message
Mom's not stupid. You know the first thing she did was cash the
check--unlike Dad and daughter.
-- Ken from Chicago
erik
news:ifbsj15b75ntj8054...@4ax.com...
> On 29 Sep 2005 11:23:28 -0700, reld...@usa.net wrote:
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> :Right now he seems to be assuaging the pain of rejection with Mrs.
> :Casablancas, and ignoring Veronica & Duncan.
>
> "Can Dick and Beaver come out to play?" Heh.
> :
Yes, that was nice :) They did it at least once already. In the last but one
episode in S1 - Look at that. Beaver's getting all the lovin', and Dick's
flapping out in the breeze.
erik
news:9Rn%e.347579$5N3....@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
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> reld...@usa.net wrote:
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>> Saint Meg turning into a vindictive bitch surprised me. Of course, her
>> maliciousness in getting the bus to drive off without Veronica is what
>> saved Veronica's life. I guess Meg is dead now. Those deaths, plus
>> the stabbing of Felix earlier, will make for a fascinating year-long
>> arc.
>
> She should not have been irrational.
> Another way to look at the crash is that Meg doomed the bus. I VM had been
> on it surely she would have noticed something wrong and saved the day...
> don't ya think?
>
Or they all be dead. She's smart, she's witty, but she's not a superwoman.
Meg being a bitch was writer's way to make Veronica feel especially guilty.
Meg is (most probably) dead and now Veronica has an unresolved issue with
her. She used to be her very good friend and even if Veronica wasn't
directly responsible, she knew it hurt Meg. And she thought they can resolve
that and be friends again. Finding out who did it can be her way of saying
goodbye.
>> I think my favorite moment in the episode was when Weevil relented and
>> gave Veronica a ride. Aaaawww. And he's a fine one to talk about her
>> screwing 09ers, isn't he? What did he think he was doing with Lilly?
>> The fact that Lilly's ghost seemingly led Veronica to Weevil was
>> interesting.
I think it was Lilly leading her away from the bus and if Weevil is there to
assist then be it. She acted like kind of a gurdian angel. I knew something
would happen with the bus when I saw that scene.
erik
>
>
> Ken from Chicago wrote:
>
I guess it took a while till they found out the check was missing. It was
not exactly the top priority then, which gave her enough time to cash it.
She knew it must be the first thing to do if she wants the money. From the
story point of view, they had to do her something that awful to justify
Keith having a GF and going for a divorce.
reld...@usa.net
--Yes, CC had a Caesarean near the end of filming season 4 of AtS.
That's why she ahd to be lying in a coma for the last few episodes:
she wasn't capable of doing anything more than lie there. I suppose
the scars can be concealed by make-up, though.
As for Logan and the whole "Spike apologist" bit, did anybody notice
that my previous posts talked about the fact that Logan HAS BASER
IMPULSES that he needs to overcome, and that the gasoline in the
swimming pool was REALLY REALLY BAD?
I find characters who struggle between good and evil interesting. And
I like to see good win out. Logan has been badly influenced by his
psycho father, and has grown up thinking violence is normal. But he
isn't a hopeless case; he's young and malleable, and he could be
influenced for the better.
Clairel
curlyQlink
<reld...@usa.net> wrote in message
news:1128207959....@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> As for Logan and the whole "Spike apologist" bit, did anybody notice
> that my previous posts talked about the fact that Logan HAS BASER
> IMPULSES that he needs to overcome, and that the gasoline in the
> swimming pool was REALLY REALLY BAD?
>
> I find characters who struggle between good and evil interesting. And
> I like to see good win out. Logan has been badly influenced by his
> psycho father, and has grown up thinking violence is normal. But he
> isn't a hopeless case; he's young and malleable, and he could be
> influenced for the better.
I just don't see it that way. Logan is rotten to the core. His life is a
series of rich-kid pranks; if arson at the town pool is explained away as
him acting out his pain over his father being a murderer, how to explain him
organizing bum-fights at the beach? He's been doing this stuff since day
one. Ogling his friend's mom poolside, when he's supposed to be with
Veronica? What an S.O.B. Looks to me like Logan is violent, cruel, and
utterly selfish. And while Spike could be accused of all those things too,
Spike at least never whined about it.
reld...@usa.net
curlyQlink wrote:
> <reld...@usa.net> wrote in message
> news:1128207959....@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > As for Logan and the whole "Spike apologist" bit, did anybody notice
> > that my previous posts talked about the fact that Logan HAS BASER
> > IMPULSES that he needs to overcome, and that the gasoline in the
> > swimming pool was REALLY REALLY BAD?
> >
> > I find characters who struggle between good and evil interesting. And
> > I like to see good win out. Logan has been badly influenced by his
> > psycho father, and has grown up thinking violence is normal. But he
> > isn't a hopeless case; he's young and malleable, and he could be
> > influenced for the better.
>
> I just don't see it that way. Logan is rotten to the core. His life is a
> series of rich-kid pranks; if arson at the town pool is explained away as
> him acting out his pain over his father being a murderer, how to explain him
> organizing bum-fights at the beach?
--Do you really have to ask? Can't you imagine how it would warp a
person, to grow up with Aaron Echolls as your father? I hated the bum
fights, by the way, and I'm not making excuses for Logan. I'm just
saying there were reasons why he became the way he was.
You asked for an explanation, and Aaron Echolls is it.
But if Logan were irredeemable and hopelessly rotten to the core, he
would never have done anything nice for anybody. He would never have
cared about his mother. He would never have cared about Veronica. And
Veronica would never have cared about him. She's not stupid, and she's
not unduly swayed by hormones. Notice how she broke up with Logan when
she decided it was the right thing to do. But there must have been
something in him that made her stick with him as long as she did.
I don't have stars in my eyes where Logan is concerned, but I think he
is played by a talented actor who shows lots of layers in the
character, and he is scripted as a complex character, not the simple
rotter that some viewers seeem to think he is.
Clairel
curlyQlink
<reld...@usa.net> wrote in message
news:1128364460.3...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>
> You asked for an explanation, and Aaron Echolls is it.
On the one hand, Dad Echolls beat Logan with a belt. On the other hand,
Logan deserved it.
Seriously though, plenty of people have been able to transcend having a
rotten upbringing. Lots of people have violent childhoods-- and most of
them don't get to grow up rich.
>
> But if Logan were irredeemable and hopelessly rotten to the core, he
> would never have done anything nice for anybody. He would never have
> cared about his mother. He would never have cared about Veronica. And
> Veronica would never have cared about him. She's not stupid, and she's
> not unduly swayed by hormones. Notice how she broke up with Logan when
> she decided it was the right thing to do. But there must have been
> something in him that made her stick with him as long as she did.
I'm not so sure he does care about Veronica. He wants to have a nice
girlfriend, someone who's bright and pretty and will provide a shoulder to
cry on when he's feeling blue 'cause his brand new SUV has got a scratch on
it. It's something of a mystery to me why Veronica is attracted to him,
though it does add an interesting kink to her character that she does.
Spike had the bad boy thing going for him. Yeah he was violent and cruel
and selfish... but he also had a certain nobility about him, the way a tiger
is noble (and violent, cruel and selfish). Logan seems just petty to me.
Pranks, acting up, petty revenge against his petty "enemies". He's a child.
And that smirk of his is really, really annoying.
reld...@usa.net
--Yes, there are differences, certainly. I really hated Logan for the
first half of season 1, and I never hated Spike. Logan can be very
petty and puerile at times. I just think there is some positive
potential in him, and I think Veronica accurately sensed that. I don't
think her attraction to Logan was just some weird kink. It should be
taken seriously as something meaningful.
You say that Logan deserved being beaten with a belt, I guess because
of some of the egregious things he did last year, such as the bum
fights. But it was obvious that the belt-beatings were a matter of
routine that had gone on for years. Do you really think Logan deserved
to be beaten with a belt the first time Aaron ever did it--when Logan
was, what, 4 years old? 5 years old? 6 years old?
I still say the problem began with Aaron Echolls being psychotic,
abusive, and the kind of excessively violent person who eventually ends
up driving his wife to suicide and committing murder without the
slightest hesitation or qualm of guilt. Living all his life with a
father like that, from infancy onward, warped Logan. I don't think
being a rich boy helped, either. If anything it sent all the wrong
messages and contributed to the warping.
One thing I really object to is people arguing that wealth can
anesthetize mental anguish. "Oh, he's rich, so what's the big deal?"
is a mean, callous, uncalled-for response when someone is mourning the
loss of a loved one or is being subjected to abuse from a parent he
can't escape from. The Echolls wealth just gave Aaron the kind of
power and unassailable position that guaranteed his son would be
trapped with him inescapably. No amount of nice clothes, cars, etc.,
can assuage that kind of ongoing pain.
Clairel
James Craine
reld...@usa.net wrote:
>
> I still say the problem began with Aaron Echolls being psychotic,
> abusive, and the kind of excessively violent person who eventually ends
> up driving his wife to suicide and committing murder without the
> slightest hesitation or qualm of guilt. Living all his life with a
> father like that, from infancy onward, warped Logan. I don't think
> being a rich boy helped, either. If anything it sent all the wrong
> messages and contributed to the warping.
But Aaron has a past also. And if this were a 25 year old
soap opera we could probably blame his parents. And if it
were a 50 year old soap we could blame the grandparents. At
some point somebody has to be responsible for his own
behaviour. If the Aarons and Logans of the world don't have
the ability to control their behaviour then lets lock him up
until middle age so at least he can't reproduce and
continue the cancer.
Lynette
> I can't believe nobody else is as excited as I am.
> I didn't think I'd be the first one to post about the new VM!
Ever since they first showed her face, it's been looking awfully
familiar. *Whips out facedar*
COORDINATES 0,9,5 ZEROING IN ON SECTOR 5.
FACE PARAMETERS NARROWED DOWN. COORDINATES 0,9,5,2,5.
CLOSING ON IN RECOGNITION TARGET.
*DING* *DING* *DING*
WE HAVE FACE RECOGNITION (repeat) WE HAVE FACE RECOGNITION.
OMG! It's Joan Rivers! That cosmetic surgery is really doing wonders
for her!
Bill Reid
Lynette <lynet...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1128888969....@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Though with her new set of giant porcelain caps, Hilary looks less like
Joan Rivers and more like Heather Locklear with her face caught in a vise...
---
William Ernest Reid
erik
I think that you are both right :) Aaron Echols had an influence on
his son, but now it's Logan who is doing the things he hated about his
father. And actually, Aaron when "dealing" with Trina's boyfriend said
the same story about _his_ father. I guess this abuse runs in the
family. It often does. One would expect that the abused child would
want to avoid such behaviour, but it seems that in many cases the
exact opposite happens. But Logan surprises me. He's intelligent
enough to realize this.
reld...@usa.net
--I also think he is capable of better.
And to the previous respondent: It's not that I don't hold Logan
responsible. It's not that I think it's okay for harmful criminals to
roam free just because a bad family background "excuses" them. It
doesn't. I just don't see that Logan has done anything really, really
heinous yet. His crimes are quite petty. I think he has the potential
to become a better person, and I think it's bizarre to talk about
locking Logan up for decades.
The swimming pool thing is probably the worst thing he ever did, and
though I certainly disapprove of it and agree with Veronica's disgusted
reaction to it, it still isn't like murder or grand larceny. It's not
the sort of thing people do hard time for. Isn't your rhetoric getting
a bit out of hand?
Clairel
James Craine
reld...@usa.net wrote:
>
> The swimming pool thing is probably the worst thing he ever did, and
> though I certainly disapprove of it and agree with Veronica's disgusted
> reaction to it, it still isn't like murder or grand larceny. It's not
> the sort of thing people do hard time for. Isn't your rhetoric getting
> a bit out of hand?
>
> Clairel
>
It's something like grand larceny. It took from people the
use of an asset for months and will cost thousands to fix.
And arson is a serious crime.
Mitch Simmons
Rip Off and hardly an improvement.
reld...@usa.net
Mitch Simmons wrote:
> Veronica Mars = Nancy Drew.
> Rip Off and hardly an improvement.
--You could say the same thing about AtS vis-a-vis Forever Knight, but
it would be equally wrong, and equally superficial.
Clairel
reld...@usa.net
Mitch Simmons wrote:
> Veronica Mars = Nancy Drew.
> Rip Off and hardly an improvement.
--You could say the same thing about AtS vis-a-vis Forever Knight, but