AOQ Review 6-7: "Tabula Rasa"
Arbitrar Of Quality
threads.
BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
Season Six, Episode 7: "Tabula Rasa"
(or "I don't want to learn what I'll need to forget")
Writer: Rebecca Rand Kirshner
Director: David Grossman
There's fallout to be had from the foray into musicland. The first
bit with Buffy and Spike bit is sort of relevant, but not so exciting;
it plays like an overdone love-and-denial that mainly exists so that
the end of the episode can triumphantly take us back to exactly where
we were last week. Also not so wild about the loan-shark thing, since
the "unscrupulous" character having debts to pay off is one of
those things that every show and the pilot for its rejected cousin does
(and it's actually the second time we've seen such a thing in the
Buffyverse). But the latter complaint is dulled by the fact that the
writers indulge in their sometimes tendency to take an idea to its
absurdist extremes; it's hard to argue with the amount being forty
tabbies. And of course, the demon actually being a shark.
On a more interesting note, the Scoobies have a chance to discuss
pulling Buffy out of her heeeeeeaven-dimension. The discussion starts
that way, anyway, with Xander coming off as too clueless comic-relief
for my tastes. Willow shows how she can be so simultaneously
understanding and clueless when talking about her selfishness, and then
in the next breath suggesting a "fix" that ignores the underlying
issues. And that's a natural transition into another confrontation
with Tara. As with the one in ATW, this comes off approximately 387
times better than when the same writer tried this in "Tough Love."
Tara's been waiting on this, so her language is brutal, cutting
through any attempts to brush the forgetting spell away as no big deal.
The word "violate" seems to finally get Willow's attention, as
does the unexpected connection to Glory, and "maybe [helping people
is] how it started, but ... you're helping yourself now, fixing things
to your liking. Including me." Ouch. And things are well put
together: note how Wil is on some level trying to apologize and make
amends, but then Tara keeps overwhelming her with more, and suggesting
that no matter what happens, she may leave her. Thus the viewer is
able to sympathize with Willow having things "suddenly" fall apart
this way while at the same time totally supporting where Tara's
coming from. There's also the device of using "leave me" to cut
to Giles, which is an old trick, but one I generally like.
Backtracking two topics, it's interesting that when her friends
apologize, that's when Buffy chooses to finally unload some of her
bitterness. In a kind way, relatively speaking, but still very bitter.
And then forward-tracking one topic the other way, I do have a problem
with the whole notion of Giles needing to leave for Buffy's sake. I
don't buy the stated explanation at all. And while I'm fine with
characters making choices I don't agree with, it's bothersome to me
that the show seems to treat it like it's self-explanatory. Look,
show, she's twenty. You know what many twenty-year-olds have, and
are not blamed if they're reliant upon? A living/non-absentee parent
or two. The fact that she's the world's defender against the
forces of darkness should only make it even more important that she not
be tied down by things that could get in the way of that. Isn't
providing part of Watching? And beyond that, as has already been
discussed some in the OMWF thread, why is it so vital that someone
who's recently been dragged back from the dead kicking and screaming,
is for all intents and purposes an orphan, and has a sister to take
care of, have to stand totally alone? Especially when she has a
perfectly good (and independently wealthy) father-figure around? This
is "justified" by the way the show has repeatedly shown her not
only needing some help, but jumping at the chance to dump certain
matters entirely in others' laps. My response remains "so what?"
Or, to be evn more direct and echo Buffy, "you're wrong."
Although I'm not counting on it, I haven't excluded the possibility
that there's more to it than the stated reason. Two ideas that Mrs.
Q. had: one, Giles could have some kind of fatal condition and wanting
to sever his attachments in advance. Or two, and more interesting, he
could be needing to move on with his own life, and looking for a reason
that feels true. An ultimately selfish act, but one that he's
managed to convince himself is for his Slayer's benefit. I don't
know if the show will elaborate further on this, but I think that this
idea makes the most sense.
For my money, the big oh-shit moment is Willow's magical
clothes-change, not showing any signs of regret about it. From that
point on, it's clear that whatever she's doing cannot bode well for
anyone. Sure enough, it doesn't; maybe given "Something Blue"
she should stay clear of the big unfocused spells, huh? Actually,
I'd figured out that it'd be total rather than selective amnesia,
but had expected it to be confined to the specified targets. Instead,
whole cast fall down go boom.
So, this is another one of those stock-plots that just about every show
does at some point. But it's usually an interesting one. Since so
much of identity and personality are tied up in memory, it's worth
speculating on what would be left without it. How does BTVS work it?
Not badly. This is a situation where the show knows *not* to go for
broke on the absurdity; it still has a light touch, but the actors and
script give it the weight it deserves in other places, so everyone's
personality can come out. The result is hit and the occasional miss,
but mostly hit. Wasn't so wild about Xander's paranoid moment or
the stupid and unfunny joke about spikes as payment, but those are the
exception rather than the rule.
Some of the characters figure out their names, but a few end up with
something wrong, which seems about right. Little touches like
"Ann-ya" are appreciated. Most of them obviously don't get their
relationships right, but Buffy/Joan and Dawn can just tell that
there's a family connection. Beyond that, "Tabula Rasa" did
convince me that it was indeed showing some "core" traits for
everyone. We see Joan immediately stepping into the rule of
reassurance-person, and eventually, Protector. She's got such poise
doing it, too. This is why she's the hero, people. Willow (weird
name), who can be good in the right kinds of crises, is the one to come
up with a few of the good ideas, like checking themselves for
identification. She seems quick to jump to the conclusion that she and
Alexander are an item, which seems to interest her, but being crammed
in tight quarters with nubile chicks is enough to make her realize that
she's also (or instead; let's not have that discussion again)
"kinda gay." (Does the reuse of that line qualify as "continuity
porn," BTW?) Dawn's main reaction is fearful mistrust, until the
right people can convince her that they'll look out for her. Tara is
a model of passiveness, fading almost entirely into the background.
Alexander is harder to summarize in one sentence, but I'd say he
first needs to be convinced that it's in his best interest to try to
help people (again, the nubile chick factor comes into play - very
appropriate for him). Then he can be an (occasionally) effectual
action hero too. Giles is unexpectedly non-assertive, and Spike/Randy
slips into the role of being human surprisingly easily, not even
suspecting that he might be a monster until Joan points it out to him.
Does that about summarize things?
I don't really see a point in summarizing too much of the action,
which pretty much speaks for itself, so just a few comments. Rupert
and Randy as father and son, extrapolating what their relationship was
probably like, is a scream. "You never showed me affection like
that! ...I'd wager." Then Giles and Anya get to provide very
little help, except for some practicing some transference. Feel free
to speculate on which of Anya's abandonment issues are general, and
which are Xander-specific. I thought things were going to go in a
"Band Candy" direction by the end. That might've been
interesting, but then, it's been done already, so... Finally, even
though there's nothing that special about it, the part with Alex
protecting, and getting weapons from Dawn is solid.
So who's Randy? Is that clear?
I'm going to go on record saying that the bunnies thing has been run
very close to the ground at this point. I'll allow it this week
since the image of turning everything into rabbits (and Giles's
reactions) is pretty fun, but the show really needs to give this gag a
rest for awhile.
In the end, our heroes don't figure out the solution at all, but
accidentally break the crystal, fixing everything. That's a
perfectly fine way to do things. Tara of course gets what happened,
and the actors get another chance to show the viewer how much emotion
they can convey using only facial expressions. Plenty, as always.
BTVS breakup montages tend to work well as a general rule, and this one
joins the list. Is this how Michelle Branch ended up getting vaguely
sorta famous? I think Dawn's shrinking away from Tara's attempt to
hug her goodbye is interesting too.
This Is Really Stupid But I Laughed Anyway moment(s):
- Alex's attempts to cover all bases with his prayers
- And of course, this all-time classic exchange: "I must be a noble
vampire. A good guy, on a mission of redemption. I help the hopeless!
I'm a vampire with a soul." "A vampire with a soul? Oh my god,
how lame is that?"
So...
One-sentence summary: Mostly painless.
AOQ rating: Good
[Season Six so far:
1) "Bargaining" - Decent
2) "After Life" - Good
3) "Flooded" - Decent
4) "Life Serial" - Good
5) "All The Way" - Good
6) "Once More, With Feeling" - Excellent
7) "Tabula Rasa" - Good]
(Harmony) Watcher
"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in message
news:1155015448.0...@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
>
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Six, Episode 7: "Tabula Rasa"
> (or "I don't want to learn what I'll need to forget")
> Writer: Rebecca Rand Kirshner
> Director: David Grossman
>
> There's fallout to be had from the foray into musicland. The first
> bit with Buffy and Spike bit is sort of relevant, but not so exciting;
> it plays like an overdone love-and-denial that mainly exists so that
> the end of the episode can triumphantly take us back to exactly where
> we were last week. Also not so wild about the loan-shark thing, since
> the "unscrupulous" character having debts to pay off is one of
> those things that every show and the pilot for its rejected cousin does
> (and it's actually the second time we've seen such a thing in the
> Buffyverse). But the latter complaint is dulled by the fact that the
> writers indulge in their sometimes tendency to take an idea to its
> absurdist extremes; it's hard to argue with the amount being forty
> tabbies. And of course, the demon actually being a shark.
>
a Halloween mask? :)
--
==Harmony Watcher==
burt...@hotmail.com
> The word "violate" seems to finally get Willow's attention, as
> does the unexpected connection to Glory, and "maybe [helping people
> is] how it started, but ... you're helping yourself now, fixing things
> to your liking. Including me." Ouch. And things are well put
> together: note how Wil is on some level trying to apologize and make
> amends, but then Tara keeps overwhelming her with more, and suggesting
> that no matter what happens, she may leave her. Thus the viewer is
> able to sympathize with Willow having things "suddenly" fall apart
> this way while at the same time totally supporting where Tara's
> coming from.
In that last sentence, rather than "the viewer is able," I think it
would probably be more accurate to say "I am able" ("I" meaning you,
AOQ). I don't think you'll find a whole lot of sympathy for Willow in
this particular instance 'round these parts. I certainly didn't have
any, and I liked Willow for the most part in seasons 1-5.
Though even so, I have to admit that during that conversation about
magic, Willow would have been perfectly justified in saying, "Hey, I'm
not the one who recently cast a spell that *got people killed!*"
George W Harris
<tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
:She seems quick to jump to the conclusion that she and
:Alexander are an item, which seems to interest her, but being crammed
:in tight quarters with nubile chicks is enough to make her realize that
:she's also (or instead; let's not have that discussion again)
:"kinda gay." (Does the reuse of that line qualify as "continuity
:porn," BTW?)
I don't think so, no. However, the fact that
Spike is wearing the same suit he wore in Xander's
dream in Restless, at which time Giles says "Spike's
like a son to me!", is continuity porn.
--
Never give a loaded gun to a woman in labor.
George W. Harris For actual email address, replace each 'u' with an 'i'.
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
> the "unscrupulous" character having debts to pay off is one of
if the series didnt jump the shark with a very special musical episode
maybe it did with the land shark
dont worry
the -its wonderful life- episode is coming in december
and the -christmas carol- episode shows up in season eight
> sorta famous? I think Dawn's shrinking away from Tara's attempt to
> hug her goodbye is interesting too.
dawn has a childs view of adult relations
> This Is Really Stupid But I Laughed Anyway moment(s):
> - Alex's attempts to cover all bases with his prayers
from -the mummy-
> - And of course, this all-time classic exchange: "I must be a noble
> vampire. A good guy, on a mission of redemption. I help the hopeless!
> I'm a vampire with a soul." "A vampire with a soul? Oh my god,
> how lame is that?"
nice autoparody
goes with spikes monolog at the beginning of into the dark
arf meow arf - nsa fodder
ny dnrqn greebevfz ahpyrne obzo vena gnyvona ovt oebgure
if you meet buddha on the usenet killfile him
(Harmony) Watcher
"mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges"
<mair_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:mair_fheal-7A78F...@sn-ip.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net...
> > we were last week. Also not so wild about the loan-shark thing, since
> > the "unscrupulous" character having debts to pay off is one of
>
> if the series didnt jump the shark with a very special musical episode
> maybe it did with the land shark
>
> dont worry
> the -its wonderful life- episode is coming in december
> and the -christmas carol- episode shows up in season eight
>
> > sorta famous? I think Dawn's shrinking away from Tara's attempt to
> > hug her goodbye is interesting too.
>
> dawn has a childs view of adult relations
>
> > This Is Really Stupid But I Laughed Anyway moment(s):
> > - Alex's attempts to cover all bases with his prayers
>
> from -the mummy-
>
> > - And of course, this all-time classic exchange: "I must be a noble
> > vampire. A good guy, on a mission of redemption. I help the hopeless!
> > I'm a vampire with a soul." "A vampire with a soul? Oh my god,
> > how lame is that?"
>
> nice autoparody
> goes with spikes monolog at the beginning of into the dark
>
>
Mocking the entire concept of a sister show at the writer's level with
Buffy's "how lame is that" had me ROFL.
--
==Harmony Watcher==
Elisi
Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
>
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Six, Episode 7: "Tabula Rasa"
> (or "I don't want to learn what I'll need to forget")
> Writer: Rebecca Rand Kirshner
> Director: David Grossman
>
> There's fallout to be had from the foray into musicland. The first
> bit with Buffy and Spike bit is sort of relevant, but not so exciting;
> it plays like an overdone love-and-denial that mainly exists so that
> the end of the episode can triumphantly take us back to exactly where
> we were last week.
And this week's kiss is *hot*! Btw what does Mrs AOQ think of the
Buffy/Spike thing?
> Also not so wild about the loan-shark thing, since
> the "unscrupulous" character having debts to pay off is one of
> those things that every show and the pilot for its rejected cousin does
> (and it's actually the second time we've seen such a thing in the
> Buffyverse). But the latter complaint is dulled by the fact that the
> writers indulge in their sometimes tendency to take an idea to its
> absurdist extremes; it's hard to argue with the amount being forty
> tabbies. And of course, the demon actually being a shark.
Well the fact that Giles and Spike were shown (on the swings) in
Restless in these outfits is one of those things that never fails to
amuse me. But there's also this exchange:
XANDER: (in playground) You gotta have something. (Looks at Buffy)
Gotta be
with movin' forward.
BUFFY: (like a proud little kid) Like a shark.
XANDER: Like a shark with feet and ... much less fins.
SPIKE: (like a proud little kid) And on land!
GILES: Very good!
Continuity porn is probably a good term for it. :)
> And that's a natural transition into another confrontation
> with Tara. As with the one in ATW, this comes off approximately 387
> times better than when the same writer tried this in "Tough Love."
> Tara's been waiting on this, so her language is brutal, cutting
> through any attempts to brush the forgetting spell away as no big deal.
> The word "violate" seems to finally get Willow's attention, as
> does the unexpected connection to Glory, and "maybe [helping people
> is] how it started, but ... you're helping yourself now, fixing things
> to your liking. Including me." Ouch. And things are well put
> together: note how Wil is on some level trying to apologize and make
> amends, but then Tara keeps overwhelming her with more, and suggesting
> that no matter what happens, she may leave her. Thus the viewer is
> able to sympathize with Willow having things "suddenly" fall apart
> this way while at the same time totally supporting where Tara's
> coming from.
This talk is interesting given Willow's time with Oz - who left,
without Willow getting a say in the matter. Of course Oz left to deal
with *his* problem, but I still think it was a very bad thing for
Willow to have to deal with, and the lessons she took from it have not
helped.
Also Tara says "If you don't want to fight, don't fight" which is a
nice sentiment, but also spectacularly unhelpful. Sometimes things
*need* discussing! Full stop.
> Backtracking two topics, it's interesting that when her friends
> apologize, that's when Buffy chooses to finally unload some of her
> bitterness. In a kind way, relatively speaking, but still very bitter.
And notice that this is (so far) the *only* time she has tried to tell
her friends how she feels - and then she gets cut off by Willow's
spell...
> Although I'm not counting on it, I haven't excluded the possibility
> that there's more to it than the stated reason. Two ideas that Mrs.
> Q. had: one, Giles could have some kind of fatal condition and wanting
> to sever his attachments in advance. Or two, and more interesting, he
> could be needing to move on with his own life, and looking for a reason
> that feels true. An ultimately selfish act, but one that he's
> managed to convince himself is for his Slayer's benefit. I don't
> know if the show will elaborate further on this, but I think that this
> idea makes the most sense.
I think the second idea is the one that's nearest the truth. There is a
line at the airport in 'Bargaining I' when the Scoobies are saying
goodbye:
WILLOW: Well, you should get going. Don't you have a life or something?
GILES: Um, well, I suppose that's the question really.
And he's incredibly distant when he comes back (says it's bewildering).
And then - rather than being her Watcher - Buffy is pushing him into a
parent role. And she certainly *needs* someone to take care of her, but
I don't think Giles wants to do it - he was *just* getting his own life
back. So he finds a noble excuse. Now TR also two other points:
1) When he loses his memory Giles finds himself a family man - he has a
son and a finacée. And doesn't he look happy?
2) When Buffy loses her memory she's a peppy and capable as in S1 - and
this might convince Giles that she'll be fine. She's still the same
deep down, but won't reconnect with that part of her when she's leaning
on him...
As Stephen Tempest said in the OMWF thread - growing you learn that
your parents are only people and the screw up just as much as the rest
of us. If you like I can even try to pull this out of Giles' dream in
'Restless'.
> For my money, the big oh-shit moment is Willow's magical
> clothes-change, not showing any signs of regret about it. From that
> point on, it's clear that whatever she's doing cannot bode well for
> anyone. Sure enough, it doesn't; maybe given "Something Blue"
> she should stay clear of the big unfocused spells, huh? Actually,
> I'd figured out that it'd be total rather than selective amnesia,
> but had expected it to be confined to the specified targets. Instead,
> whole cast fall down go boom.
I love the whole memory loss thing! :) And I have no problem with Spike
not remembering that he's vampire. The spell goes something like
"Cleanse their minds of memories grim" which is not just 'make them
forget the last three days'. Oh and a point of interest: Remember
Chantarelle who became Lily who then took Buffy's name, Anne? According
to the script for 'Lie To Me' her real name was Joan. And that is
just... neat! :)
> AOQ rating: Good
Definitely excellent for me. :)
Apteryx
news:1155015448.0...@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
>A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
>
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Six, Episode 7: "Tabula Rasa"
> (or "I don't want to learn what I'll need to forget")
> Writer: Rebecca Rand Kirshner
> Director: David Grossman
>
> There's fallout to be had from the foray into musicland. The first
> bit with Buffy and Spike bit is sort of relevant, but not so exciting;
> it plays like an overdone love-and-denial that mainly exists so that
> the end of the episode can triumphantly take us back to exactly where
> we were last week. Also not so wild about the loan-shark thing, since
> the "unscrupulous" character having debts to pay off is one of
> those things that every show and the pilot for its rejected cousin does
Also kind of disappointing - you'd expect Spike to be better at kitten
poker.
> (and it's actually the second time we've seen such a thing in the
> Buffyverse). But the latter complaint is dulled by the fact that the
> writers indulge in their sometimes tendency to take an idea to its
> absurdist extremes; it's hard to argue with the amount being forty
> tabbies. And of course, the demon actually being a shark.
How much I like the shark depends on how much alcohol I have consumed before
watching. This last time was after dinner where I had had 1 glass of wine
and 2 small pre dinner martinis, which was enough. Going in sober, I have to
remember its ticking off yet another thing fortold in Restless, (along with
Spike's suit later and the fact he thinks he's Giles's son).
> issues. And that's a natural transition into another confrontation
> with Tara. As with the one in ATW, this comes off approximately 387
> times better than when the same writer tried this in "Tough Love."
> Tara's been waiting on this, so her language is brutal, cutting
> through any attempts to brush the forgetting spell away as no big deal.
> The word "violate" seems to finally get Willow's attention, as
> does the unexpected connection to Glory, and "maybe [helping people
> is] how it started, but ... you're helping yourself now, fixing things
> to your liking. Including me." Ouch. And things are well put
> together: note how Wil is on some level trying to apologize and make
> amends, but then Tara keeps overwhelming her with more, and suggesting
> that no matter what happens, she may leave her. Thus the viewer is
> able to sympathize with Willow having things "suddenly" fall apart
> this way while at the same time totally supporting where Tara's
> coming from. There's also the device of using "leave me" to cut
> to Giles, which is an old trick, but one I generally like.
I guess sympathy for Willow here depends on believing that she genuinely had
no idea how bad what she did to Tara was. So even though she clearly
deserves the trouble she's in, we can sympathise with someone suddenly in
trouble she hadn't expected.
> And then forward-tracking one topic the other way, I do have a problem
> with the whole notion of Giles needing to leave for Buffy's sake. I
> don't buy the stated explanation at all. And while I'm fine with
> characters making choices I don't agree with, it's bothersome to me
> that the show seems to treat it like it's self-explanatory.
I dunno, I think its only Giles who treats it as self-explanatory. Buffy is
the only other one in the room, and she doesn't seem convinced. But surveys
I just made up say that 98% of the time someone says they are leaving
someone else for that someone else's good, it is just an excuse. Maybe Giles
has his own reasons for leaving that he doesn't share with us or with Buffy.
That's the only way I can make sense of it, apart from the fact that ASH
wasn't prepared to do the whole series.
>
> Although I'm not counting on it, I haven't excluded the possibility
> that there's more to it than the stated reason. Two ideas that Mrs.
> Q. had: one, Giles could have some kind of fatal condition and wanting
> to sever his attachments in advance. Or two, and more interesting, he
> could be needing to move on with his own life, and looking for a reason
> that feels true.
Yeah, something like that :)
> I'm going to go on record saying that the bunnies thing has been run
> very close to the ground at this point. I'll allow it this week
> since the image of turning everything into rabbits (and Giles's
> reactions) is pretty fun, but the show really needs to give this gag a
> rest for awhile.
One wouldn't want the same gag repeated every episode infinitum - but this
one wouldn't mind a few more beats of this running gag sometime before the
end :)
>
> So...
>
> One-sentence summary: Mostly painless.
>
> AOQ rating: Good
Good for me too. Mostly a successful mixture of funny and sad, which can be
tricky. Its my 56th favourite BtVS episode, 4th best in season 6
--
Apteryx
Kermit
Here's an unpleasant and sad little thought to add to the mix.
I would appear at least one day (possibly several) have gone by between
the end of OMWF and the beginning of Tabula Rasa. Everyone has changed
clothes, plus Tara comments on the need to stop obsessing about Buffy,
which would be an odd thing to say if it was later the same night.
And yet, Tara has not said anything to Willow about what she knows. Why
is that? Maybe it's because Tara has being trying to find something
(spell, amulet, etc.) to protect herself against Willow trying to recast
the memory alteration spell.
Imagine how that must feel for Tara. The one person that she cared for
more than anyone, and the trust she had in Willow is now so completely
destroyed that she feels that she has has to assume the worst. It's a
fair bet Tara feels some guilt (needless, but who ever said guilt was a
rational thing) over this.
So, what happens: Tara hears Willow casually talking about playing with
someone else's brain, loses it and confronts her before she is ready.
And then, Willow does EXACTLY what Tara, in her darkest heart of hearts,
feared she would do. Without, as far as anything that was shown on
screen can show us, a single second of hesitation.
Willow isn't stupid, even if somehow she managed to not see how wrong
what she did to Tara was the first (a prospect I find difficult to
believe), what excuse did she have in TR? At this point, Warren would
appear to have the moral high ground, since at least his toy was
something he built, rather than an actual flesh and blood person.
V jbaqre jung Ohssl'f ernpgvba jbhyq unir orra unq fur rire sbhaq bhg
gur fcryy unq orra vagraqrq sbe ure nf jryy. Sbe gung znggre, gurer
qbrfa'g frrz gb or nal rivqrapr gung nal bs gur fpbbovrf rire svaq bhg
jung Jvyybj'f vagrag jnf. Gbb onq, vg zvtug unir tvira gurz n uvag bs
ubj qnatrebhf fur ernyyl jnf.
Eric Hunter
> Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
>> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
>> threads.
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Six, Episode 7 (Actually 8): "Tabula Rasa"
> Also not so wild about the loan-shark thing,
> But the latter complaint is dulled by the
> demon actually being a shark.
> Well the fact that Giles and Spike were shown (on the swings) in
> Restless in these outfits is one of those things that never fails
> to amuse me. But there's also this exchange:
> XANDER: (in playground) You gotta have something. (Looks at Buffy)
> Gotta be with movin' forward.
> BUFFY: (like a proud little kid) Like a shark.
> XANDER: Like a shark with feet and ... much less fins.
> SPIKE: (like a proud little kid) And on land!
> GILES: Very good!
> Continuity porn is probably a good term for it. :)
Wow, I remembered the suit, of course, but I'd
forgotten this bit of dialog as just dream
nonsense. Thanks! That legitimizes the "loan
shark" a great deal.
> a point of interest: Remember Chantarelle who became
> Lily who then took Buffy's name, Anne? According
> to the script for 'Lie To Me' her real name was Joan.
> And that is just... neat! :)
Interesting, but I suspect the writer's choice may
have more to do with Joan of Arc, especially given
Buffy's recent and not so recent history of almost
bursting into flames and almost being burnt at the
stake.
>> AOQ rating: Good
> Definitely excellent for me. :)
A high good for me.
Eric.
--
Rowan Hawthorn
> Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
>> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
>> threads.
>>
>>
>> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
>> Season Six, Episode 7: "Tabula Rasa"
>> (or "I don't want to learn what I'll need to forget")
>> Writer: Rebecca Rand Kirshner
>> Director: David Grossman
>>
Panic. It's not an *acceptable* excuse, but there it is - Willow always
thinks she can "fix" things, but she wants a quick, *easy* fix, just
like in "Something Blue":
WILLOW: I just can’t stand feeling this way. I want it to be over.
BUFFY: It will. I promise. But it’s going to take time.
WILLOW: Well, that’s not good enough.
BUFFY: I know. It’s just how it is. You have to go through the pain.
WILLOW: Well, isn’t there someway I can just make it go away? Just
’cause I say so? Can’t I just make it go ‘poof’?
It's also interesting to note that it's almost exactly two years since
"Something Blue," which means Willow's just gone through the second
anniversary of Oz's leaving her - and now, *Tara's* breaking up with
her, on *top* of her just finding out that she pulled Buffy out of a
Good Place. Triple stomach punch...
--
Rowan Hawthorn
"Occasionally, I'm callous and strange." - Willow Rosenberg, "Buffy the
Vampire Slayer"
William George Ferguson
>> we were last week. Also not so wild about the loan-shark thing, since
>> the "unscrupulous" character having debts to pay off is one of
>
>if the series didnt jump the shark with a very special musical episode
>maybe it did with the land shark
Considering how easily the writers will adopt autoparody, I think they
missed a golden opportunity to have the loan shark trip during the fight,
and Buffy jump over it, just to thumb their noses at the critics.
>dont worry
>the -its wonderful life- episode is coming in december
Actually, that was The Wish
>and the -christmas carol- episode shows up in season eight
And that was Amends
--
"Timothy Dalton should get an Oscar and
beat Sean Connery over the head with it!"
-The Other Guy (you know, Tucker's brother)
anmc...@hotmail.com
this idea: what if Willow never met Tara, renewed her relationship with
Oz, but still went magic-lomaniac (in terms of seeing it as a solution
to all problems, naysayers be damned!), how would this affect Oz? Would
he act like Tara?
I'm surprised no one has yet mentioned that classic 'group screams in
horror' shot.
A.Gerard
William George Ferguson
>Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
>> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
>> threads.
>>
>>
>> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
>> Season Six, Episode 7: "Tabula Rasa"
>> (or "I don't want to learn what I'll need to forget")
>> Writer: Rebecca Rand Kirshner
>> Director: David Grossman
>
>Here's an unpleasant and sad little thought to add to the mix.
>
>I would appear at least one day (possibly several) have gone by between
>the end of OMWF and the beginning of Tabula Rasa. Everyone has changed
>clothes, plus Tara comments on the need to stop obsessing about Buffy,
>which would be an odd thing to say if it was later the same night.
Internal referents pretty much establish that the opening scene in Xander
and Anya's apartment is the morning of the following day (that is, if the
mian part of OMWF went down on Tuesday night, this is Wednesday morning),
so Tara hasn't put the breakup off, really. She was probably waiting to
talk to Willow in private, but when Willow made the suggestion to do the
memory spell on Buffy, she exploded.
Also, someone else mentions about Buffy and others figuring out who Willow
was targeting with the spell. Xander and Anya retreated to their bedroom
when Tara went off on Willow, but had to pretty much hear it all. They
know that Willow wanted to use the spell to make Buffy forget she had been
in heaven, and that she had been using the spell on Tara to control her
(not even Tara believes that was the first time Willow used the spell on
her, and, well, look at the size of her lethe bramble stash).
>So, what happens: Tara hears Willow casually talking about playing with
>someone else's brain, loses it and confronts her before she is ready.
>And then, Willow does EXACTLY what Tara, in her darkest heart of hearts,
>feared she would do. Without, as far as anything that was shown on
>screen can show us, a single second of hesitation.
So the timeline, near as I can make out.
OWMF ends on Tuesday night
Scoobies gather at Xander's Wednesday morning, Tara blows up at Willow,
Willow swears to not use magic (Tara only asks for a week). Giles makes
arrangements to fly back to England
Thursday morning, Willow uses magic (one of the shortest weeks in recorded
history).
Thursday evening, Giles informs Buffy of his plans, the spell kicks in, fun
is had by all.
Thursday night, Tara leaves Willow.
Steve Schaffner
> With all this mention on Oz, does anyone have a reasonable scenario on
> this idea: what if Willow never met Tara, renewed her relationship with
> Oz, but still went magic-lomaniac (in terms of seeing it as a solution
> to all problems, naysayers be damned!), how would this affect Oz? Would
> he act like Tara?
He would act like any other chihuahua, following Willow's unfortunate
mistake while trying to cure him of being a werewolf.
--
Steve Schaffner s...@broad.mit.edu
Immediate assurance is an excellent sign of probable lack of
insight into the topic. Josiah Royce
Paul Hyett
>>
>> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
>> Season Six, Episode 7: "Tabula Rasa"
>> (or "I don't want to learn what I'll need to forget")
>> Writer: Rebecca Rand Kirshner
>> Director: David Grossman
>>
>> the "unscrupulous" character having debts to pay off is one of
>> those things that every show and the pilot for its rejected cousin does
>> (and it's actually the second time we've seen such a thing in the
>> Buffyverse). But the latter complaint is dulled by the fact that the
>> writers indulge in their sometimes tendency to take an idea to its
>> absurdist extremes; it's hard to argue with the amount being forty
>> tabbies. And of course, the demon actually being a shark.
>>
>Could it be a loan shark--demon or not--who wanted to cover his tracks with
>a Halloween mask? :)
By drawing even more attention to himself than he otherwise would? :)
--
Paul 'Charts Fan' Hyett
Arbitrar Of Quality
> mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges <mair_...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> >if the series didnt jump the shark with a very special musical episode
> >maybe it did with the land shark
>
> Considering how easily the writers will adopt autoparody, I think they
> missed a golden opportunity to have the loan shark trip during the fight,
> and Buffy jump over it, just to thumb their noses at the critics.
Oh, that would have been hilarious. And the JTS meme was pretty w
proliferated by this point, so I wish they'd thought of it (or maybe
they did think of it and said "no").
> >dont worry
> >the -its wonderful life- episode is coming in december
>
> Actually, that was The Wish
Indeed.
> >and the -christmas carol- episode shows up in season eight
>
> And that was Amends
Um, no. Christmas episode akin to what many shows do, sure, but I
think you have to stretch the point past breaking to make it _A
Christmas Carol_.
-AOQ
William George Ferguson
>A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
>threads.
>
>
>BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
>Season Six, Episode 7: "Tabula Rasa"
>(or "I don't want to learn what I'll need to forget")
>Writer: Rebecca Rand Kirshner
>Director: David Grossman
>
>There's fallout to be had from the foray into musicland.
Although they will violate it on occasion (usually to do comedy), the first
rule of ME writers it that actions have consequences.
>The first
>bit with Buffy and Spike bit is sort of relevant, but not so exciting;
>it plays like an overdone love-and-denial that mainly exists so that
>the end of the episode can triumphantly take us back to exactly where
>we were last week. Also not so wild about the loan-shark thing, since
>the "unscrupulous" character having debts to pay off is one of
>those things that every show and the pilot for its rejected cousin does
>(and it's actually the second time we've seen such a thing in the
>Buffyverse). But the latter complaint is dulled by the fact that the
>writers indulge in their sometimes tendency to take an idea to its
>absurdist extremes; it's hard to argue with the amount being forty
>tabbies. And of course, the demon actually being a shark.
I've said elsewere that they really missed an opportunity here, to have the
loan shark trip and Buffy jump over him, just to take the piss on the
usenet critics.
>On a more interesting note, the Scoobies have a chance to discuss
>pulling Buffy out of her heeeeeeaven-dimension. The discussion starts
>that way, anyway, with Xander coming off as too clueless comic-relief
>for my tastes. Willow shows how she can be so simultaneously
>understanding and clueless when talking about her selfishness, and then
>in the next breath suggesting a "fix" that ignores the underlying
>issues. And that's a natural transition into another confrontation
>with Tara. As with the one in ATW, this comes off approximately 387
>times better than when the same writer tried this in "Tough Love."
>Tara's been waiting on this, so her language is brutal, cutting
>through any attempts to brush the forgetting spell away as no big deal.
> The word "violate" seems to finally get Willow's attention, as
>does the unexpected connection to Glory,
Maybe unexpected to you. The Glory comparison was made on the newsgroup
literally the night that All the Way aired. The posters were very well
aware of it, because, of course, it made what Willow did so much worse. I
just automatically assumed the Glory mind-rape was what Tara was referring
to when she sang "You know I've been through hell".
>and "maybe [helping people
>is] how it started, but ... you're helping yourself now, fixing things
>to your liking. Including me." Ouch. And things are well put
>together: note how Wil is on some level trying to apologize and make
>amends, but then Tara keeps overwhelming her with more, and suggesting
>that no matter what happens, she may leave her. Thus the viewer is
>able to sympathize with Willow having things "suddenly" fall apart
>this way while at the same time totally supporting where Tara's
>coming from.
It's an important point to keep in mind (and many people don't seem to be
able to) that sympathy doesn't mean absolution. Reference Gandalf's speech
about deserving to die (or live). I felt complete sympathy with Willow
here (and in the scene in OMWF when she finds out she ripped Buffy out of
heaven), without feeling that Willow is somehow not deserving of the
fallout she is going to continue to get for her actions. Willow dug her
Grand Canyon, I'll feel sympathy, but she'll still have to lie in it.
>And then forward-tracking one topic the other way, I do have a problem
>with the whole notion of Giles needing to leave for Buffy's sake. I
>don't buy the stated explanation at all.
I think people need to just not chew this bone too much. None of the
viewers really agree with Giles, none of the other characters really agree
with Giles (not even Anya, once she's sure he won't take the Magic Box
back), heck, there's not a lot of evidence that even the writers agree with
Giles.
> My response remains "so what?"
> Or, to be evn more direct and echo Buffy, "you're wrong."
Which should really be the final word.
>For my money, the big oh-shit moment is Willow's magical
>clothes-change, not showing any signs of regret about it.
The main events of OMWF were on Tuesday night. The council of war (and
Willow swearing not to use magic for month, which Tara reduced to a week)
was Wednesday morning, after Dawn had gone to school. The above scene was
first thing Thursday morning, as Dawn gets ready to go to school. It's the
incredible 20 hour week (of course, we don't really know that Willow
refrained from using magic in the intervening 20 hours, just that she
refrained when Tara was around).
>From that
>point on, it's clear that whatever she's doing cannot bode well for
>anyone. Sure enough, it doesn't; maybe given "Something Blue"
>she should stay clear of the big unfocused spells, huh? Actually,
>I'd figured out that it'd be total rather than selective amnesia,
>but had expected it to be confined to the specified targets. Instead,
>whole cast fall down go boom.
The problem wasn't an unfocused spell, it was the honkin' huge bag of lethe
bramble (Tara is right to suspect that this wasn't just this once) which
she carelessly left sitting by the fire where she worked the spell.
>Some of the characters figure out their names, but a few end up with
>something wrong, which seems about right. Little touches like
>"Ann-ya" are appreciated. Most of them obviously don't get their
>relationships right, but Buffy/Joan and Dawn can just tell that
>there's a family connection. Beyond that, "Tabula Rasa" did
>convince me that it was indeed showing some "core" traits for
>everyone. We see Joan immediately stepping into the rule of
>reassurance-person, and eventually, Protector. She's got such poise
>doing it, too. This is why she's the hero, people. Willow (weird
>name), who can be good in the right kinds of crises, is the one to come
>up with a few of the good ideas, like checking themselves for
>identification. She seems quick to jump to the conclusion that she and
>Alexander are an item, which seems to interest her, but being crammed
>in tight quarters with nubile chicks is enough to make her realize that
>she's also (or instead; let's not have that discussion again)
>"kinda gay." (Does the reuse of that line qualify as "continuity
>porn," BTW?)
Not really, that's just going for the humor. Now, all the deliberate back
references to Restless are continuity pron.
>I don't really see a point in summarizing too much of the action,
>which pretty much speaks for itself, so just a few comments. Rupert
>and Randy as father and son, extrapolating what their relationship was
>probably like, is a scream. "You never showed me affection like
>that! ...I'd wager." Then Giles and Anya get to provide very
>little help, except for some practicing some transference. Feel free
>to speculate on which of Anya's abandonment issues are general, and
>which are Xander-specific. I thought things were going to go in a
>"Band Candy" direction by the end. That might've been
>interesting, but then, it's been done already, so... Finally, even
>though there's nothing that special about it, the part with Alex
>protecting, and getting weapons from Dawn is solid.
>So who's Randy? Is that clear?
Randy's the name on the label of his jacket. If it had been a different
jacket, he might have been calling himself 'Robert Hall'.
>I'm going to go on record saying that the bunnies thing has been run
>very close to the ground at this point. I'll allow it this week
>since the image of turning everything into rabbits (and Giles's
>reactions) is pretty fun, but the show really needs to give this gag a
>rest for awhile.
A one line throwaway now and then reminding us of Anya's bunny phobia
(lapinophobia or laporiphobia) is fine, Full blown bunny gags should be
reserved for special occasions.
>This Is Really Stupid But I Laughed Anyway moment(s):
>- Alex's attempts to cover all bases with his prayers
>- And of course, this all-time classic exchange: "I must be a noble
>vampire. A good guy, on a mission of redemption. I help the hopeless!
> I'm a vampire with a soul." "A vampire with a soul? Oh my god,
>how lame is that?"
"Oh, listen to Mary Poppins. He's got his crust all stiff and upper with
that nancy-boy accent. You Englishmen are always so... Bloody hell!
Sodding, blimey, shagging, knickers, bollocks, oh God! I'm English!"
"Welcome to the nancy tribe."
Arbitrar Of Quality
> Btw what does Mrs AOQ think of the Buffy/Spike thing?
She's been enjoying it.
> As Stephen Tempest said in the OMWF thread - growing you learn that
> your parents are only people and the screw up just as much as the rest
> of us.
I'm not as convinced as I'd like to be that Giles screwing up is what
the writers are going for, but that's the best way to make it play.
> Oh and a point of interest: Remember
> Chantarelle who became Lily who then took Buffy's name, Anne? According
> to the script for 'Lie To Me' her real name was Joan. And that is
> just... neat! :)
If that was intentional, that's continuity porn of the noblest order.
-AOQ
sjelena
think that she would never gone so far with the abuse of magic with Oz
still there, because she wouldn't have Tara there to show her the
right sources and encourage her in further exploration of it. She would
have only lame Wica group and possibly master the skill of making
brownies and multicolor flyers...
her problem, as I see it, is lack of a real teacher, authority figure
if you want. Because, although she loves Tara, IMO she thinks (and Tara
told her so, many times), that she became so much more powerful and
mighty that she has nothing more to learn from her (Tara)... and also,
there is another thing (widely discussed in S4 threads), Tara's (as
AOQ put it) passiveness and submissiveness to Willow.
sjelena
Arbitrar Of Quality
> It's an important point to keep in mind (and many people don't seem to be
> able to) that sympathy doesn't mean absolution. Reference Gandalf's speech
> about deserving to die (or live). I felt complete sympathy with Willow
> here (and in the scene in OMWF when she finds out she ripped Buffy out of
> heaven), without feeling that Willow is somehow not deserving of the
> fallout she is going to continue to get for her actions. Willow dug her
> Grand Canyon, I'll feel sympathy, but she'll still have to lie in it.
Agreed with that. I sympathize without absolving. Others seem to have
a hard time accepting that she wouldn't have fully thought through what
she was doing, but it seems entrely consistent with the way her mind
works. Then once sh's called on it, and hit pretty damn hard, Rowan
summarizes it right: first she panics, then takes refuge in a
quick-fix. But like I said but didn't properly elaborate on, the
moment in which she changes clothes hurts the viewer a little
(particulrly the viewer who likes Willow), knowing that she's given up
her last chance to really fix things.
In an odd way, though, I feel glad for Tara's sake. After practically
proclaiming herself Willow's personal property back in S4, she rejects
being used this way and has a firm sense of which lines she won't let
be crossed. And good on her.
> >So who's Randy? Is that clear?
>
> Randy's the name on the label of his jacket. If it had been a different
> jacket, he might have been calling himself 'Robert Hall'.
But why does he have that name on his jacket? Is that just whoever he
happened to steal it from?
-AOQ
Lord Usher
news:1155015448.0...@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com:
> There's fallout to be had from the foray into musicland. The first
> bit with Buffy and Spike bit is sort of relevant, but not so exciting;
> it plays like an overdone love-and-denial that mainly exists so that
> the end of the episode can triumphantly take us back to exactly where
> we were last week.
"Triumphally"? Making out with someone through your tears of loneliness
and despair as "Goodbye to You" plays in the background is not exactly
my idea of a triumph. :)
> Some of the characters figure out their names, but a few end up with
> something wrong, which seems about right. Little touches like
> "Ann-ya" are appreciated. Most of them obviously don't get their
> relationships right, but Buffy/Joan and Dawn can just tell that
> there's a family connection. Beyond that, "Tabula Rasa" did
> convince me that it was indeed showing some "core" traits for
> everyone.
I absolutely disagree, and that's why IMHO "Tabula Rasa" fails as an
episode despite its strong beginning and killer closing sequence. The
particulars of the amnesia spell fluctuate arbitrarily for the sake of
cheap laughs. Some people bear the emotional memories of their previous
relationships (Buffy and Dawn) while others get them totally wrong
(Giles and Spike, Giles and Anya). Our Heroes have no memory of
vampires, and yet Spike is familiar with the Buffyverse concept of a
"soul."
As a result, there's no way of drawing *any* conclusions about the
characters based on what they remember or how they behave, because
there's no sensible baseline for comparison. To quote myself yet again:
"For example, it's tempting to conclude that, because Spike feels
residual affection for Buffy whereas Anya and Xander feel no such
connection to each other, Spike's love for Buffy is especially strong,
especially meaningful compared to Xander and Anya's feelings. But then
you have to take into account the fact that the spell has *obviously*
impaired certain characters' emotional memory more than others -- such
that Giles, for instance, thinks that Spike is his son despite the fact
that he has *never* expressed any paternal leanings towards dear
William, and has no psychological reason *at all* to make that kind of
connection. If Giles's emotional memory is so impaired that he
postulates a relationship that far removed from reality, how do we know
that Xander and Anya aren't likewise impaired? For all we know, their
love is just as strong as Spike's -- it's just that, like Giles, they're
feeling the effects of the spell more strongly."
--
Lord Usher
"I'm here to kill you, not to judge you."
Lord Usher
@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com:
> Well the fact that Giles and Spike were shown (on the swings) in
> Restless in these outfits is one of those things that never fails to
> amuse me. But there's also this exchange:
>
> XANDER: (in playground) You gotta have something. (Looks at Buffy)
> Gotta be
> with movin' forward.
> BUFFY: (like a proud little kid) Like a shark.
> XANDER: Like a shark with feet and ... much less fins.
> SPIKE: (like a proud little kid) And on land!
> GILES: Very good!
>
> Continuity porn is probably a good term for it. :)
"Cheapening a deeply symbolic episode by inventing arbitrary and overly
literal explanations for something that didn't even need to be explained in
the first place" would be a less charitable way of characterizing it. :)
Stephen Tempest
>In an odd way, though, I feel glad for Tara's sake. After practically
>proclaiming herself Willow's personal property back in S4, she rejects
>being used this way and has a firm sense of which lines she won't let
>be crossed. And good on her.
Tara's character development is a subtle, background thing compared to
all the foreground fireworks, but it's one of the reasons I like this
season so much.
Stephen
Horace LaBadie
"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
>
> But why does he have that name on his jacket? Is that just whoever he
> happened to steal it from?
>
He stole it from a corpse, possibly the former occupant of whatever tomb
Spike happens to have taken as his current residence. He was using it as
a disguise, to get away from the Loan Shark, and that was as different
from his own look as he he could dig up in a pinch.
HWL
jil...@hotmail.com
> "For example, it's tempting to conclude that, because Spike feels
> residual affection for Buffy whereas Anya and Xander feel no such
> connection to each other, Spike's love for Buffy is especially strong,
> especially meaningful compared to Xander and Anya's feelings. But then
> you have to take into account the fact that the spell has *obviously*
> impaired certain characters' emotional memory more than others -- such
> that Giles, for instance, thinks that Spike is his son despite the fact
> that he has *never* expressed any paternal leanings towards dear
> William, and has no psychological reason *at all* to make that kind of
> connection. If Giles's emotional memory is so impaired that he
> postulates a relationship that far removed from reality, how do we know
> that Xander and Anya aren't likewise impaired? For all we know, their
> love is just as strong as Spike's -- it's just that, like Giles, they're
> feeling the effects of the spell more strongly."
Actually, there's no evidence that Spike-Randy feels "residual"
affection for Buffy. He does sneer at her plan, then goes along with
it enthusiastically. That's Spike, though. In fact Randy, too, shows
no recognition that he's in love. Giles, on the other hand, waking up
with Anya sleeping against his shoulder, them noticing she wears an
engagement ring and finding out (assumptive but with logic) that the
two of them own the shop... still, his behavior towards her is
paternal, probably making him think Randy is right to be so snide. I'm
reasonably sure kissing the lovely, weird woman who is his fiance IS
from a buried desire to kiss a lovely woman. *bets there are fics
where Buffy is in Anya's place, but I doubt they can be written to feel
canonically possible* Anya and Xander have no reason to assume they
are involved. Left together for some period of time, they'd probably
wonder if they hadn't been cheating on their partners. Willow didn't
realise until some exposure that she was attracted to Tara. She
wasn't, however, behaving as though she was attracted to Dawn. And her
behavior with Xander was more on the line of how she THOUGHT she was,
and didn't seem to have a true emotional component.
kim
news:RIGdnQjVOeeJFkXZ...@comcast.com...
But how would she remember those events?
(kim)
Henry Hartmann
jil...@hotmail.com wrote:
> Lord Usher wrote:
> > "For example, it's tempting to conclude that, because Spike feels
> > residual affection for Buffy whereas Anya and Xander feel no such
> > connection to each other, Spike's love for Buffy is especially strong,
> > especially meaningful compared to Xander and Anya's feelings. But then
> > you have to take into account the fact that the spell has *obviously*
> > impaired certain characters' emotional memory more than others -- such
> > that Giles, for instance, thinks that Spike is his son despite the fact
> > that he has *never* expressed any paternal leanings towards dear
> > William, and has no psychological reason *at all* to make that kind of
> > connection. If Giles's emotional memory is so impaired that he
> > postulates a relationship that far removed from reality, how do we know
> > that Xander and Anya aren't likewise impaired? For all we know, their
> > love is just as strong as Spike's -- it's just that, like Giles, they're
> > feeling the effects of the spell more strongly."
>
> Actually, there's no evidence that Spike-Randy feels "residual"
> affection for Buffy. He does sneer at her plan, then goes along with
> it enthusiastically. That's Spike, though. In fact Randy, too, shows
> no recognition that he's in love.
--I have to agree. As long as the amnesia spell was going on, I never
saw Randy demonstrating any particular affection for Joan. I saw him
being brave, and an enthusiastic fighter--which, as you say, is just
Spike: his basic nature, which is very combative, coming to the fore.
And when he and Joan were under attack, and she got hit, I saw him yell
"Joan!" and rush to her aid with the concern that any fighter would
have for a comrade-in-arms, an ally. That's about it.
I don't know where LU is getting this idea of "residual affection."
As for his point that there's nothing really triumphant about the final
scene in the Bronze, because the Michelle Branch music is really sad,
and Buffy is sad that Giles is leaving, and that's the main reason why
she ends up making out with Spike in the Bronze, etc., etc. -- well,
it's all true enough, and yet somehow the way the making-out scene in
the Bronze was filmed had such verve and joie de vivre to it! In
defiance of everything that can be pointed out to the contrary, the
mood somehow *was* triumhant. That's how I felt when I first saw the
episode, and that's how I still feel now. AOQ's word was well chosen,
even if paradoxical.
Clairel
Shuggie
But didn't Joss once say that the only thing in Restless with no meaning
was the CheeseMan? Having said that he was almost forced to go back and
make sure he'd referenced everything.
At least that's what I think. I can't think of another reason for the
stupid shark.
--
Shuggie
my blog - http://shuggie.livejournal.com/
Elisi
> As for his point that there's nothing really triumphant about the final
> scene in the Bronze, because the Michelle Branch music is really sad,
> and Buffy is sad that Giles is leaving, and that's the main reason why
> she ends up making out with Spike in the Bronze, etc., etc. -- well,
> it's all true enough, and yet somehow the way the making-out scene in
> the Bronze was filmed had such verve and joie de vivre to it! In
> defiance of everything that can be pointed out to the contrary, the
> mood somehow *was* triumhant. That's how I felt when I first saw the
> episode, and that's how I still feel now. AOQ's word was well chosen,
> even if paradoxical.
>
> Clairel
"We have something, Buffy. It's not pretty, but it's real, and there's
nothing either one of us can do about it."
Spike, 'Crush'
Shuggie
> She seems quick to jump to the conclusion that she and
> Alexander are an item, which seems to interest her, but being crammed
> in tight quarters with nubile chicks is enough to make her realize that
> she's also (or instead; let's not have that discussion again)
> "kinda gay." (Does the reuse of that line qualify as "continuity
> porn," BTW?)
You like that? Remember this name 'Drew Goddard'.
Henry Hartmann
--Actually, "Randy" wasn't the maker's name. It was the previous
owner's name. The label inside said "Made with care for Randy." So it
was custom-made by a tailor, for a customer named Randy.
I figured it was an old suit that somebody gave away to Goodwill, and
that's how Spike got a hold of it.
Clairel
vague disclaimer
"Elisi" <eli...@gmail.com> wrote:
> And this week's kiss is *hot*!
For some values of 'hot'.
--
Wikipedia: like Usenet, moderated by trolls
Clairel
vague disclaimer wrote:
> In article <1155022073.7...@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>,
> "Elisi" <eli...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > And this week's kiss is *hot*!
>
> For some values of 'hot'.
--Huh?
Clairel
Arbitrar Of Quality
> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in
> news:1155015448.0...@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com:
>
> > There's fallout to be had from the foray into musicland. The first
> > bit with Buffy and Spike bit is sort of relevant, but not so exciting;
> > it plays like an overdone love-and-denial that mainly exists so that
> > the end of the episode can triumphantly take us back to exactly where
> > we were last week.
>
> "Triumphally"? Making out with someone through your tears of loneliness
> and despair as "Goodbye to You" plays in the background is not exactly
> my idea of a triumph. :)
And epople have come up with ways to make the word choice work.
Actually, although I ddn't really make it clear, I meant it in a bit of
a mocking way, directed towards the show. The idea being that I felt
like the opening B/S scene seems like a step backward for the sole
purpose of stting up a big moment at the end that does little more than
take things back to where they started,
I considered trying an experiment to see how many people I could piss
off by not mentioning the kiss at the end at all, but wouldn't you know
it, I did have a brief something to say about it, so...
> > Some of the characters figure out their names, but a few end up with
> > something wrong, which seems about right. Little touches like
> > "Ann-ya" are appreciated. Most of them obviously don't get their
> > relationships right, but Buffy/Joan and Dawn can just tell that
> > there's a family connection. Beyond that, "Tabula Rasa" did
> > convince me that it was indeed showing some "core" traits for
> > everyone.
>
> I absolutely disagree, and that's why IMHO "Tabula Rasa" fails as an
> episode despite its strong beginning and killer closing sequence. The
> particulars of the amnesia spell fluctuate arbitrarily for the sake of
> cheap laughs. Some people bear the emotional memories of their previous
> relationships (Buffy and Dawn) while others get them totally wrong
> (Giles and Spike, Giles and Anya).
I'm not seeing any "emotional memory." They're just trying to put
things together given the available evidence; some guess right, and
some wrong. Joan and Dawn don't "remember" that they're sisters on any
level - their connection comes from the fact that Joan's a Protector
and Dawn wants to feel safe. Willow doesn't start to feel stirrings
for Tara because of their past connections, she does because she's in
cramped quarters with another hot chick who's about her age.
> Our Heroes have no memory of
> vampires, and yet Spike is familiar with the Buffyverse concept of a
> "soul."
Ooh, good pickup. Can't say I care much, because I was too busy
chuckling over "I help the hopeless!"
> As a result, there's no way of drawing *any* conclusions about the
> characters based on what they remember or how they behave, because
> there's no sensible baseline for comparison. To quote myself yet again:
>
> "For example, it's tempting to conclude that, because Spike feels
> residual affection for Buffy whereas Anya and Xander feel no such
> connection to each other, Spike's love for Buffy is especially strong,
> especially meaningful compared to Xander and Anya's feelings.
No, no, no, that's not what TR is about at all. The emotional
connections are wiped clean, and no one can or should attempt to infer
anything from how the characters connect. All that's left is as close
as it's possible to get to who each character is, independent of his or
her relationships with others.
-AOQ
Lord Usher
>> I absolutely disagree, and that's why IMHO "Tabula Rasa" fails as an
>> episode despite its strong beginning and killer closing sequence. The
>> particulars of the amnesia spell fluctuate arbitrarily for the sake
>> of cheap laughs. Some people bear the emotional memories of their
>> previous relationships (Buffy and Dawn) while others get them totally
>> wrong (Giles and Spike, Giles and Anya).
>
> I'm not seeing any "emotional memory." They're just trying to put
> things together given the available evidence; some guess right, and
> some wrong. Joan and Dawn don't "remember" that they're sisters on
> any level - their connection comes from the fact that Joan's a
> Protector and Dawn wants to feel safe.
No, I don't think that's the basis of their realization at all. The gag
is that for no particular reason they find each other annoying ("Boy,
you're a pain in the --"/"Boy, you're bossy"), and as a result they
conclude that they must be sisters.
The very essence of the joke is that they correctly interpret the
emotional memory of their snippy sororal feelings for each other --
feelings that have nothing to do with some memory-independent core
personality, and everything to do with what they meant to each other in
the life they've forgotten.
>> "For example, it's tempting to conclude that, because Spike feels
>> residual affection for Buffy whereas Anya and Xander feel no such
>> connection to each other, Spike's love for Buffy is especially
>> strong, especially meaningful compared to Xander and Anya's feelings.
>
> No, no, no, that's not what TR is about at all. The emotional
> connections are wiped clean, and no one can or should attempt to infer
> anything from how the characters connect. All that's left is as close
> as it's possible to get to who each character is, independent of his
> or her relationships with others.
Don't memories and relationships inform "who each character is," though?
Why should removing them create a better picture, as opposed to a more
incomplete one?
Now, if the episode had carefully established what aspects of the
characters' previous personality were still in play and why, it might
still have succeeded in saying something meaningful about those
particular aspects of their identities. But because the exact mechanism
of the mindwipe was never laid down, and characters were influenced by
their former selves based purely on the need for a gag or a plot point
at any particular moment, the episode ended up saying nothing about
anyone.
chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Six, Episode 7: "Tabula Rasa"
> (or "I don't want to learn what I'll need to forget")
> Writer: Rebecca Rand Kirshner
> Director: David Grossman
> writers indulge in their sometimes tendency to take an idea to its
> absurdist extremes; it's hard to argue with the amount being forty
> tabbies.
Siamese, if you please.
> On a more interesting note, the Scoobies have a chance to discuss
> pulling Buffy out of her heeeeeeaven-dimension. The discussion starts
> that way, anyway, with Xander coming off as too clueless comic-relief
> for my tastes.
I didn't think he was *that* clueless. Okay, the idea of a video club was
a lame attempt at humor. But his general idea that they should spend more
time with Buffy was about as good as any of them could have come up with.
No leaving her alone to work through it herself, but no grand gestures to
make amends either, just being there for support and companionship. What
else could they do?
> Backtracking two topics, it's interesting that when her friends
> apologize, that's when Buffy chooses to finally unload some of her
> bitterness. In a kind way, relatively speaking, but still very bitter.
It's interesting to think about what would have happened if this
conversation hadn't been interrupted by Willow's spell. Would Buffy or
her friends have felt any better for getting all their feelings out in the
open? Would the rest of season 6 have taken the course that it did?
> And then forward-tracking one topic the other way, I do have a problem
> with the whole notion of Giles needing to leave for Buffy's sake.
You, me and everyone else. Giles is really making two mistakes, thinking
his leaving will help Buffy and thinking that it's okay to leave *now*, of
all times. Even if he still felt he had to leave, after learning Buffy's
secret he could have decided to stay and help her for at least a few
months. That wouldn't have made everything all right, but at least it
would have shown Buffy that he still cared. Leaving suddenly, right after
OMWF, just makes it that much more painful for Buffy, almost like a
deliberate insult.
> script give it the weight it deserves in other places, so everyone's
> personality can come out. The result is hit and the occasional miss,
> but mostly hit. Wasn't so wild about Xander's paranoid moment
I thought that was appropriate. Xander has always been the most emotional
of the bunch, prone to outbursts. Here he's showing the same worries
anyone in that situation might feel, just in an exaggerated version.
> the stupid and unfunny joke about spikes as payment, but those are the
> exception rather than the rule.
I thought the stupidest, unfunniest joke of the whole episode was Xander
laughing as he regained the memory of seeing King Ralph. But in a way,
his totally inappropriate laughter helped add to the very grim, upsetting
atmosphere in that scene, so it still kind of works.
> So who's Randy? Is that clear?
The previous owner of the suit, no one who's ever been seen or mentioned
on the show before. I always assumed Spike got the suit from Goodwill, or
perhaps a trash bin, but just today another possibility occurred to me:
Randy might have been the guy buried in Spike's crypt, a guy who was
buried in his favorite brown three-piece suit. (I swear I thought of this
before reading Horace's post.) That would explain how Spike got the suit
in the middle of the day, but it wouldn't explain the hat.
> BTVS breakup montages tend to work well as a general rule, and this one
> joins the list.
Among other things it's a handy summary of how much things have changed by
the end of the episode: Giles gone, Tara and Willow broken up, Tara out of
Buffy and Dawn's house, and Buffy and Spike snogging in the Bronze. As
the song says, "Goodbye to everything that I knew." The show seems likely
to have a very different feel after this.
> This Is Really Stupid But I Laughed Anyway moment(s):
-Anya's "I'm only saying what we're all thinking," after saying something
*no one* but her would have thought of.
-Buffy telling Spike "I will never touch you ever, ever again" and then
immediately tackling him.
-Spike's description of Giles' "classic midlife-crisis transport." Is the
car Giles bought in season 5 still around?
> AOQ rating: Good
Good.
--Chris
______________________________________________________________________
chrisg [at] gwu.edu On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog.
Lord Usher
news:mc9nq3...@ID-256697.user.uni-berlin.de:
>> "Cheapening a deeply symbolic episode by inventing arbitrary and
>> overly literal explanations for something that didn't even need to be
>> explained in the first place" would be a less charitable way of
>> characterizing it. :)
>
> But didn't Joss once say that the only thing in Restless with no
> meaning was the CheeseMan? Having said that he was almost forced to go
> back and make sure he'd referenced everything.
Only if "meaning" translates as "literal prefigurement of future events."
Everything in "Restless" *does* have meaning -- up to and including the
Cheese Man. But its primary meaning lies in the rich psychological portrait
it paints for each dreamer, and not in some worthless visions of random
episodes to come. (Hell, even the moments that *are* actual prophecy, the
Dawn/730 stuff, are primarily significant because of how they speak to
Buffy's state of mind, not because they tell us what's coming up next.)
Elisi
But... it's funny. What's wrong with that?
Shuggie
Well I have to say I always thought Restless was over-rated. It's ok,
there's some funny and interesting scenes but mostly it's just
self-indulgence. The Emperor's not quite naked but he ain't wearing
Armani if you know what I mean.
Don Sample
"Henry Hartmann" <TEHco...@gmail.com> wrote:
> jil...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > Actually, there's no evidence that Spike-Randy feels "residual"
> > affection for Buffy. He does sneer at her plan, then goes along with
> > it enthusiastically. That's Spike, though. In fact Randy, too, shows
> > no recognition that he's in love.
>
> --I have to agree. As long as the amnesia spell was going on, I never
> saw Randy demonstrating any particular affection for Joan. I saw him
> being brave, and an enthusiastic fighter--which, as you say, is just
> Spike: his basic nature, which is very combative, coming to the fore.
If his basic nature had been coming to the fore, he should have tried to
rip all of their throats out, and gotten a blinding headache as a result.
The bizarre behaviour of Randy is my biggest problem with "Tabula Rasa."
--
Quando omni flunkus moritati
Visit the Buffy Body Count at <http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/>
Michael Ikeda
news:fkdhd2htj6oso2qqg...@4ax.com:
> On Tue, 08 Aug 2006 12:39:38 GMT, Kermit <noe...@here.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
>>> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these
>>> review threads.
>>>
>>>
>>> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
>>> Season Six, Episode 7: "Tabula Rasa"
>>> (or "I don't want to learn what I'll need to forget")
>>> Writer: Rebecca Rand Kirshner
>>> Director: David Grossman
>>
>>Here's an unpleasant and sad little thought to add to the mix.
>>
>>I would appear at least one day (possibly several) have gone by
>>between the end of OMWF and the beginning of Tabula Rasa.
>>Everyone has changed clothes, plus Tara comments on the need to
>>stop obsessing about Buffy, which would be an odd thing to say
>>if it was later the same night.
>
> Internal referents pretty much establish that the opening scene
> in Xander and Anya's apartment is the morning of the following
> day (that is, if the mian part of OMWF went down on Tuesday
> night, this is Wednesday morning), so Tara hasn't put the
> breakup off, really. She was probably waiting to talk to Willow
> in private, but when Willow made the suggestion to do the
> memory spell on Buffy, she exploded.
One note is that Tara's attitude toward Willow seems to soften
considerably after the big reveal in OMWF about where they REALLY
had pulled Buffy from. Tara may have decided to go into "wait and
see" mode in the hopes that the shock might have caused Willow to
rethink some things.
>
> Also, someone else mentions about Buffy and others figuring out
> who Willow was targeting with the spell. Xander and Anya
> retreated to their bedroom when Tara went off on Willow, but had
> to pretty much hear it all. They know that Willow wanted to use
> the spell to make Buffy forget she had been in heaven, and that
> she had been using the spell on Tara to control her (not even
> Tara believes that was the first time Willow used the spell on
> her, and, well, look at the size of her lethe bramble stash).
On the other hand, if Willow HAD casted the spell multiple times,
she seemed oddly unconfident about it in "All the Way". I tend to
suspect that ATW WAS the first time she had cast the spell, but she
brought home a bunch in case she decided to cast it again.
--
Michael Ikeda mmi...@erols.com
"Telling a statistician not to use sampling is like telling an
astronomer they can't say there is a moon and stars"
Lynne Billard, past president American Statistical Association
vague disclaimer
"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
> Is this how Michelle Branch ended up getting vaguely
> sorta famous?
The same song was featured at roughly the same time (or maybe a some
time later) in an episode of Charmed and something else that has slipped
my mind.
I'm thinking 'clever agent'.
vague disclaimer
"Clairel" <reld...@usa.net> wrote:
I said "For some values of 'hot'".
MBangel10 (Melissa)
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
>
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Six, Episode 7: "Tabula Rasa"
> (or "I don't want to learn what I'll need to forget")
I feel like I should know this, but it doesn't remind me of anything.
<snip>
> There's fallout to be had from the foray into musicland. The first
> bit with Buffy and Spike bit is sort of relevant, but not so exciting;
> it plays like an overdone love-and-denial that mainly exists so that
> the end of the episode can triumphantly take us back to exactly where
> we were last week.
But... but.... they were all Gone with the Wind with the rising music
and the rising....
music.
Also not so wild about the loan-shark thing, since
> the "unscrupulous" character having debts to pay off is one of
> those things that every show and the pilot for its rejected cousin does
> (and it's actually the second time we've seen such a thing in the
> Buffyverse). But the latter complaint is dulled by the fact that the
> writers indulge in their sometimes tendency to take an idea to its
> absurdist extremes; it's hard to argue with the amount being forty
> tabbies. And of course, the demon actually being a shark.
Yeah, the loan shark being an actual shark (on land!) was not that amusing.
>
> On a more interesting note, the Scoobies have a chance to discuss
> pulling Buffy out of her heeeeeeaven-dimension. The discussion starts
> that way, anyway, with Xander coming off as too clueless comic-relief
> for my tastes. Willow shows how she can be so simultaneously
> understanding and clueless when talking about her selfishness, and then
> in the next breath suggesting a "fix" that ignores the underlying
> issues. And that's a natural transition into another confrontation
> with Tara. As with the one in ATW, this comes off approximately 387
> times better than when the same writer tried this in "Tough Love."
> Tara's been waiting on this, so her language is brutal, cutting
> through any attempts to brush the forgetting spell away as no big deal.
When Tara snapped, "What is wrong with you?!" I was a bit taken aback.
She was always so timid with Willow but the scene showed that she
actually can grow a pair when even Willow crosses that line.
<snip>
>
> Although I'm not counting on it, I haven't excluded the possibility
> that there's more to it than the stated reason. Two ideas that Mrs.
> Q. had: one, Giles could have some kind of fatal condition and wanting
> to sever his attachments in advance. Or two, and more interesting, he
> could be needing to move on with his own life, and looking for a reason
> that feels true. An ultimately selfish act, but one that he's
> managed to convince himself is for his Slayer's benefit. I don't
> know if the show will elaborate further on this, but I think that this
> idea makes the most sense.
I like that second one. It fits very nicely in the scheme of things.
>
<snip>
>
> So, this is another one of those stock-plots that just about every show
> does at some point. But it's usually an interesting one. Since so
> much of identity and personality are tied up in memory, it's worth
> speculating on what would be left without it. How does BTVS work it?
> Not badly. This is a situation where the show knows *not* to go for
> broke on the absurdity; it still has a light touch, but the actors and
> script give it the weight it deserves in other places, so everyone's
> personality can come out. The result is hit and the occasional miss,
> but mostly hit. Wasn't so wild about Xander's paranoid moment or
> the stupid and unfunny joke about spikes as payment, but those are the
> exception rather than the rule.
I thought the spikes were amusing. Xander's moment not so much.
>
> Some of the characters figure out their names, but a few end up with
> something wrong, which seems about right. Little touches like
> "Ann-ya" are appreciated. Most of them obviously don't get their
> relationships right, but Buffy/Joan and Dawn can just tell that
> there's a family connection. Beyond that, "Tabula Rasa" did
> convince me that it was indeed showing some "core" traits for
> everyone. We see Joan immediately stepping into the rule of
> reassurance-person, and eventually, Protector. She's got such poise
> doing it, too. This is why she's the hero, people.
Yeah, she like a super hero, or something. That always got a giggle out
of me.
Willow (weird
> name), who can be good in the right kinds of crises, is the one to come
> up with a few of the good ideas, like checking themselves for
> identification. She seems quick to jump to the conclusion that she and
> Alexander are an item, which seems to interest her, but being crammed
> in tight quarters with nubile chicks is enough to make her realize that
> she's also (or instead; let's not have that discussion again)
> "kinda gay." (Does the reuse of that line qualify as "continuity
> porn," BTW?) Dawn's main reaction is fearful mistrust, until the
> right people can convince her that they'll look out for her. Tara is
> a model of passiveness, fading almost entirely into the background.
> Alexander is harder to summarize in one sentence, but I'd say he
> first needs to be convinced that it's in his best interest to try to
> help people (again, the nubile chick factor comes into play - very
> appropriate for him). Then he can be an (occasionally) effectual
> action hero too. Giles is unexpectedly non-assertive, and Spike/Randy
> slips into the role of being human surprisingly easily, not even
> suspecting that he might be a monster until Joan points it out to him.
> Does that about summarize things?
Yes, very nicely.
> I don't really see a point in summarizing too much of the action,
> which pretty much speaks for itself, so just a few comments. Rupert
> and Randy as father and son, extrapolating what their relationship was
> probably like, is a scream. "You never showed me affection like
> that! ...I'd wager." Then Giles and Anya get to provide very
> little help, except for some practicing some transference. Feel free
> to speculate on which of Anya's abandonment issues are general, and
> which are Xander-specific. I thought things were going to go in a
> "Band Candy" direction by the end. That might've been
> interesting, but then, it's been done already, so... Finally, even
> though there's nothing that special about it, the part with Alex
> protecting, and getting weapons from Dawn is solid.
> So who's Randy? Is that clear?
I always figured it was a suit he snagged from a dry-cleaning rack or a
Goodwill or something. Never thought too much on it.
>
> I'm going to go on record saying that the bunnies thing has been run
> very close to the ground at this point. I'll allow it this week
> since the image of turning everything into rabbits (and Giles's
> reactions) is pretty fun, but the show really needs to give this gag a
> rest for awhile.
I got a kick out of the bunnies but the image of Giles in a sword battle
with the skeleton always gets a chuckle.
>
> In the end, our heroes don't figure out the solution at all, but
> accidentally break the crystal, fixing everything. That's a
> perfectly fine way to do things. Tara of course gets what happened,
> and the actors get another chance to show the viewer how much emotion
> they can convey using only facial expressions. Plenty, as always.
> BTVS breakup montages tend to work well as a general rule, and this one
> joins the list. Is this how Michelle Branch ended up getting vaguely
> sorta famous?
The song was already out and doing fairly well by the time this episode
aired if I remember correctly.
I think Dawn's shrinking away from Tara's attempt to
> hug her goodbye is interesting too.
I know you're not a shipper but I just have to comment and agree with
Elisi on that final scene at the Bronze. Damn, that kiss was hot!
>
> This Is Really Stupid But I Laughed Anyway moment(s):
> - Alex's attempts to cover all bases with his prayers
> - And of course, this all-time classic exchange: "I must be a noble
> vampire. A good guy, on a mission of redemption. I help the hopeless!
> I'm a vampire with a soul." "A vampire with a soul? Oh my god,
> how lame is that?"
>
>
> So...
>
> One-sentence summary: Mostly painless.
>
> AOQ rating: Good
>
> [Season Six so far:
> 1) "Bargaining" - Decent
> 2) "After Life" - Good
> 3) "Flooded" - Decent
> 4) "Life Serial" - Good
> 5) "All The Way" - Good
> 6) "Once More, With Feeling" - Excellent
> 7) "Tabula Rasa" - Good]
>
MBangel10 (Melissa)
> Lord Usher wrote:
>> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in
>> news:1155015448.0...@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com:
>>
>>> There's fallout to be had from the foray into musicland. The first
>>> bit with Buffy and Spike bit is sort of relevant, but not so exciting;
>>> it plays like an overdone love-and-denial that mainly exists so that
>>> the end of the episode can triumphantly take us back to exactly where
>>> we were last week.
>> "Triumphally"? Making out with someone through your tears of loneliness
>> and despair as "Goodbye to You" plays in the background is not exactly
>> my idea of a triumph. :)
>
> And epople have come up with ways to make the word choice work.
> Actually, although I ddn't really make it clear, I meant it in a bit of
> a mocking way, directed towards the show. The idea being that I felt
> like the opening B/S scene seems like a step backward for the sole
> purpose of stting up a big moment at the end that does little more than
> take things back to where they started,
>
> I considered trying an experiment to see how many people I could piss
> off by not mentioning the kiss at the end at all, but wouldn't you know
> it, I did have a brief something to say about it, so...
Well? Now you've got me all curious and stuff.
(Harmony) Watcher
"Paul Hyett" <p...@nojunkmailplease.co.uk> wrote in message
news:D1x6rFEy...@blueyonder.co.uk...
> In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer on Tue, 8 Aug 2006, (Harmony) Watcher wrote :
> >>
> >> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> >> Season Six, Episode 7: "Tabula Rasa"
> >> (or "I don't want to learn what I'll need to forget")
> >> Director: David Grossman
> >>
> >> the "unscrupulous" character having debts to pay off is one of
> >> those things that every show and the pilot for its rejected cousin does
> >> (and it's actually the second time we've seen such a thing in the
> >> Buffyverse). But the latter complaint is dulled by the fact that the
> >> writers indulge in their sometimes tendency to take an idea to its
> >> absurdist extremes; it's hard to argue with the amount being forty
> >> tabbies. And of course, the demon actually being a shark.
> >>
with
> >a Halloween mask? :)
>
> By drawing even more attention to himself than he otherwise would? :)
>
LOL. No, I didn't phrase it quite correctly. I meant "so that few except his
cronies would know his true face". Anyway, the writers were having some
literal fun.
--
==Harmony Watcher==
(Harmony) Watcher
"William George Ferguson" <wmgf...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:bgchd2dqe2i8b37jt...@4ax.com...
> mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
<mair_...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> >> we were last week. Also not so wild about the loan-shark thing, since
> >> the "unscrupulous" character having debts to pay off is one of
> >
> >maybe it did with the land shark
>
> Considering how easily the writers will adopt autoparody, I think they
> missed a golden opportunity to have the loan shark trip during the fight,
> and Buffy jump over it, just to thumb their noses at the critics.
>
LOL
--
==Harmony Watcher==
Eric Hunter
> "Eric Hunter" <hunt...@comcast.net.invalid> wrote in message
> news:RIGdnQjVOeeJFkXZ...@comcast.com...
>> Elisi wrote:
>> > Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
>> >> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
>> >> threads.
>>
>> > BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
>> > Season Six, Episode 7 (Actually 8): "Tabula Rasa"
>>
>> > Lily who then took Buffy's name, Anne? According
>> > to the script for 'Lie To Me' her real name was Joan.
>> > And that is just... neat! :)
>>
>> Interesting, but I suspect the writer's choice may
>> have more to do with Joan of Arc, especially given
>> Buffy's recent and not so recent history of almost
>> bursting into flames and almost being burnt at the
>> stake.
>
> But how would she remember those events?
She wouldn't, any more than she would remember that
Chantarelle/Lilly/Anne's real name was Joan.
"Continuity Porn", as I understand the term, refers
to the writer's planting little references to
earlier episodes, that only a devoted fan would
pick up on. Since Chantarelle's real name is
never mentioned in any of the episodes of BtVS
or AtS, it seems a stretch to do a "shout-out"
to those few people who have shooting scripts
for "Lie to Me". I don't know that Joan is
intended to bring to mind Joan of Arc (though
it is likely), and I don't know if the writer
chose that heroine to refer back to OMWF and
'Gingerbread', or not, but it seems more likely
as continuity porn.
Eric.
--
(Harmony) Watcher
<anmc...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1155055481.8...@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> With all this mention on Oz, does anyone have a reasonable scenario on
> this idea: what if Willow never met Tara, renewed her relationship with
> Oz, but still went magic-lomaniac (in terms of seeing it as a solution
> to all problems, naysayers be damned!), how would this affect Oz? Would
> he act like Tara?
>
<:c> Bm jbhyq raq hc yvxr nal thl jbhyq, or gur Wnjn-ohetref bs bar gehpx
qevivat zntvp znzzn, rkprcg Knaqre, ohg Knaqre jnf na vqvbg! </:c>
A bit more seriously, I think had Oz stayed with Willow, he would be driven
mad and wolfy 24-7 and Willow would have no choice but to put him down with
magic (ohg abg orsber Ohssl tbg ovggra; abj, vzntvar Avan ntnvafg Ohssl).
> I'm surprised no one has yet mentioned that classic 'group screams in
> horror' shot.
>
Yeah, that tribute to the genre was hilarious. Was that the only group
scream by the Scoobies in BtVS?
--
==Harmony Watcher==
Mel
Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
>
> In the end, our heroes don't figure out the solution at all, but
> accidentally break the crystal, fixing everything. That's a
> perfectly fine way to do things. Tara of course gets what happened,
> and the actors get another chance to show the viewer how much emotion
> they can convey using only facial expressions. Plenty, as always.
> BTVS breakup montages tend to work well as a general rule, and this one
> joins the list. Is this how Michelle Branch ended up getting vaguely
> sorta famous? I think Dawn's shrinking away from Tara's attempt to
> hug her goodbye is interesting too.
>
What I particularly noticed this time was the reactions of various
characters of getting their memories restored.
Xander is happy, and gets a good laugh at what pops into his head.
Giles and Anya are embarrassed and start cleaning the shop till it sparkles.
Willow and Tara know exactly what happened and what it means for them,
personally, so you can see the hurt and disappointment on their faces.
But most striking is Buffy's reaction: she just collapses in agony as if
a physical weight has pulled her down. Bad enough to experience being
pulled from heaven once, but now she's had to go through it a second time.
Mel
(Harmony) Watcher
"Shuggie" <shu...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:mc9nq3...@ID-256697.user.uni-berlin.de...
Also, I think Joss might have gotten senile about the cheese sequence in
Restless. Since Buffy loved cheese, it wouldn't be so out of place to have
her dream of cheese. Or, it was a subtle subliminal from the cheese
manufacturers. :)
--
==Harmony Watcher==
kim
Or perhaps he simply chose it as sounding as unlike "Buffy" as any name he
could think of?
(kim)
jil...@hotmail.com
His behavior is bizarre. However, Spike is a demon. Spike is a
vampire. Which, we've noticed and understood, is an animal imprinted
with a human personality (hahah, we're all animals). Regardless of his
conscious memories, the underlying subconscious knows that if it tries
to attack a human, it's going to feel agonizing pain. It's natural
tendency has been severely suppressed.
jil...@hotmail.com
> Xander is happy, and gets a good laugh at what pops into his head.
You know, that wasn't the impression I got at all. I felt he was
laughing with sick realisation. I am in the sewers, lacking memory
until now, because Willow did a spell. Willow took away my memories
and now I've got them back. And I'm not going to have to say anything
to her, because I got a look at Tara's face....
Mark Jones
> Now, if the episode had carefully established what aspects of the
> characters' previous personality were still in play and why, it might
> still have succeeded in saying something meaningful about those particular
> aspects of their identities. But because the exact mechanism of the
> mindwipe was never laid down, and characters were influenced by their
> former selves based purely on the need for a gag or a plot point at any
> particular moment, the episode ended up saying nothing about anyone.
I personally always thought these "emotional memory" connections were the
writers' not-terribly-subtle way of thumbing their collective nose at the
nay-sayers. Thus, the Buffy/Dawn and Buffy/Spike connections come through
while others don't.
"Hah! Take _that_ you Dawn Haters! You too, you Spuffy Hater!"
But then, as a charter member of the Dawn & Spuffy Haters clique, I may be
overly sensitive.
Arbitrar Of Quality
> William George Ferguson <wmgf...@newsguy.com> wrote in
> news:fkdhd2htj6oso2qqg...@4ax.com:
> > Tara believes that was the first time Willow used the spell on
> > her, and, well, look at the size of her lethe bramble stash).
>
> On the other hand, if Willow HAD casted the spell multiple times,
> she seemed oddly unconfident about it in "All the Way". I tend to
> suspect that ATW WAS the first time she had cast the spell, but she
> brought home a bunch in case she decided to cast it again.
I'd agree with that; pretty much everything from ATW to TR plays better
if she'd only used the spell once... so far...
-AOQ
Arbitrar Of Quality
> Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
> > A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> > threads.
> >
> >
> > BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> > Season Six, Episode 7: "Tabula Rasa"
> > (or "I don't want to learn what I'll need to forget")
>
> I feel like I should know this, but it doesn't remind me of anything.
In that case, what's mine is ours.
> When Tara snapped, "What is wrong with you?!" I was a bit taken aback.
> She was always so timid with Willow but the scene showed that she
> actually can grow a pair when even Willow crosses that line.
It's so important to her character that she does stand up here. What
kinda surprised that she was the one who was ready to leave Willow
immediately upon learning about what she'd done to her, no definite
second chances or anything. I didn't know if she had that in her.
>> I considered trying an experiment to see how many people I could piss
>> off by not mentioning the kiss at the end at all, but wouldn't you know
>> it, I did have a brief something to say about it, so...
>Well? Now you've got me all curious and stuff.
That passing reference in the review *was* what I had to say about it.
> I know you're not a shipper but I just have to comment and agree with
> Elisi on that final scene at the Bronze. Damn, that kiss was hot!
Actually, I've got to admit that I still have some residual B/A shipper
in me. Yes, I'm aware that it's hopeless, and in certain ways even
more "wrong" than B/S.
-AOQ
Arbitrar Of Quality
Lord Usher wrote:
> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in
> news:1155072117.0...@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
>
> >> I absolutely disagree, and that's why IMHO "Tabula Rasa" fails as an
> >> episode despite its strong beginning and killer closing sequence. The
> >> particulars of the amnesia spell fluctuate arbitrarily for the sake
> >> of cheap laughs. Some people bear the emotional memories of their
> >> previous relationships (Buffy and Dawn) while others get them totally
> >> wrong (Giles and Spike, Giles and Anya).
> >
> > I'm not seeing any "emotional memory." They're just trying to put
> > things together given the available evidence; some guess right, and
> > some wrong. Joan and Dawn don't "remember" that they're sisters on
> > any level - their connection comes from the fact that Joan's a
> > Protector and Dawn wants to feel safe.
>
> No, I don't think that's the basis of their realization at all. The gag
> is that for no particular reason they find each other annoying ("Boy,
> you're a pain in the --"/"Boy, you're bossy"), and as a result they
> conclude that they must be sisters.
That's the proximate gag, but what draws them together is the above.
> The very essence of the joke is that they correctly interpret the
> emotional memory of their snippy sororal feelings for each other --
> feelings that have nothing to do with some memory-independent core
> personality, and everything to do with what they meant to each other in
> the life they've forgotten.
I disagree entirely. They're jumping to the conclusion that the
circumstantial evidence seems to point to, the same way everyone else
in the show is; it's consistent behavior across the board. Some are
right, and some are wrong. We both agree that the show doesn't work as
well from your perspective, so I don't see the need to cling to it.
> >> "For example, it's tempting to conclude that, because Spike feels
> >> residual affection for Buffy whereas Anya and Xander feel no such
> >> connection to each other, Spike's love for Buffy is especially
> >> strong, especially meaningful compared to Xander and Anya's feelings.
> >
> > No, no, no, that's not what TR is about at all. The emotional
> > connections are wiped clean, and no one can or should attempt to infer
> > anything from how the characters connect. All that's left is as close
> > as it's possible to get to who each character is, independent of his
> > or her relationships with others.
>
> Don't memories and relationships inform "who each character is," though?
> Why should removing them create a better picture, as opposed to a more
> incomplete one?
That's the whole point of doing a memory-wipe episode in the first
place, since there's no clear answer to that. Our episodic memory, and
particularly our relationships with others, is such a central part of
what we think of as identity and personality. If you get rid of that,
what's left? This episode operates from the assumption that there's a
core of personality that's not tied to memory. It's not necessarily a
"better" picture, since that core gets applied in different ways
depending on the person, circumstances, etc. that a given character
forms a bond with.
I think the plot is extremely straightforward, and holds together
better than most BTVS episodes, actually, but this show has never been
about the plot so I don't think this topic is as important as you seem
to.
> Now, if the episode had carefully established what aspects of the
> characters' previous personality were still in play and why, it might
> still have succeeded in saying something meaningful about those
> particular aspects of their identities. But because the exact mechanism
> of the mindwipe was never laid down, and characters were influenced by
> their former selves based purely on the need for a gag or a plot point
> at any particular moment, the episode ended up saying nothing about
> anyone.
You're looking for meaning in all the wrong places.
-AOQ
cry...@panix.com
(Harmony) Watcher
"Don Sample" <dsa...@synapse.net> wrote in message
news:dsample-F9864F...@news.giganews.com...
so-called "basic nature" of the demon. The "id" was totally under control
whether Randy knew it or not.
--
==Harmony Watcher==
(Harmony) Watcher
"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in message
news:1155072117.0...@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > > There's fallout to be had from the foray into musicland. The first
> > > bit with Buffy and Spike bit is sort of relevant, but not so exciting;
> > > it plays like an overdone love-and-denial that mainly exists so that
> > > the end of the episode can triumphantly take us back to exactly where
> > > we were last week.
> >
> > "Triumphally"? Making out with someone through your tears of loneliness
> > and despair as "Goodbye to You" plays in the background is not exactly
> > my idea of a triumph. :)
>
> And epople have come up with ways to make the word choice work.
> Actually, although I ddn't really make it clear, I meant it in a bit of
> a mocking way, directed towards the show. The idea being that I felt
> like the opening B/S scene seems like a step backward for the sole
> purpose of stting up a big moment at the end that does little more than
> take things back to where they started,
>
> off by not mentioning the kiss at the end at all, but wouldn't you know
> it, I did have a brief something to say about it, so...
>
> > > something wrong, which seems about right. Little touches like
> > > "Ann-ya" are appreciated. Most of them obviously don't get their
> > > relationships right, but Buffy/Joan and Dawn can just tell that
> > > there's a family connection. Beyond that, "Tabula Rasa" did
> > > convince me that it was indeed showing some "core" traits for
> > > everyone.
> >
> > episode despite its strong beginning and killer closing sequence. The
> > particulars of the amnesia spell fluctuate arbitrarily for the sake of
> > cheap laughs. Some people bear the emotional memories of their previous
> > relationships (Buffy and Dawn) while others get them totally wrong
> > (Giles and Spike, Giles and Anya).
>
> I'm not seeing any "emotional memory." They're just trying to put
> things together given the available evidence; some guess right, and
> some wrong. Joan and Dawn don't "remember" that they're sisters on any
> level - their connection comes from the fact that Joan's a Protector
> for Tara because of their past connections, she does because she's in
> cramped quarters with another hot chick who's about her age.
>
> > Our Heroes have no memory of
> > vampires, and yet Spike is familiar with the Buffyverse concept of a
> > "soul."
>
> Ooh, good pickup. Can't say I care much, because I was too busy
> chuckling over "I help the hopeless!"
>
> > As a result, there's no way of drawing *any* conclusions about the
> > characters based on what they remember or how they behave, because
> > there's no sensible baseline for comparison. To quote myself yet again:
> >
> > residual affection for Buffy whereas Anya and Xander feel no such
> > connection to each other, Spike's love for Buffy is especially strong,
> > especially meaningful compared to Xander and Anya's feelings.
>
> No, no, no, that's not what TR is about at all. The emotional
> connections are wiped clean, and no one can or should attempt to infer
> anything from how the characters connect. All that's left is as close
> as it's possible to get to who each character is, independent of his or
> her relationships with others.
>
Dawn still identified each other correctly as "sisters" in a crowd. Willow
was still attracted to Tara. Buffy still came out naturally and unexpectedly
as the protector of the gang. And Randy still wanted to be "good". My view
is that it was not a clean slate. If I were Willow, I would blame it on an
ineffective spell (and try again, :p).
--
==Harmony Watcher==
(Harmony) Watcher
"Lord Usher" <lord_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9819AE2E1E1...@216.196.97.142...> news:1155072117.0...@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
>
> >> I absolutely disagree, and that's why IMHO "Tabula Rasa" fails as an
> >> episode despite its strong beginning and killer closing sequence. The
> >> particulars of the amnesia spell fluctuate arbitrarily for the sake
> >> of cheap laughs. Some people bear the emotional memories of their
> >> previous relationships (Buffy and Dawn) while others get them totally
> >> wrong (Giles and Spike, Giles and Anya).
> >
> > I'm not seeing any "emotional memory." They're just trying to put
> > things together given the available evidence; some guess right, and
> > some wrong. Joan and Dawn don't "remember" that they're sisters on
> > any level - their connection comes from the fact that Joan's a
> > Protector and Dawn wants to feel safe.
>
> is that for no particular reason they find each other annoying ("Boy,
> you're a pain in the --"/"Boy, you're bossy"), and as a result they
> conclude that they must be sisters.
>
> emotional memory of their snippy sororal feelings for each other --
> feelings that have nothing to do with some memory-independent core
> personality, and everything to do with what they meant to each other in
> the life they've forgotten.
>
> >> residual affection for Buffy whereas Anya and Xander feel no such
> >> connection to each other, Spike's love for Buffy is especially
> >> strong, especially meaningful compared to Xander and Anya's feelings.
> >
> > No, no, no, that's not what TR is about at all. The emotional
> > connections are wiped clean, and no one can or should attempt to infer
> > anything from how the characters connect. All that's left is as close
> > as it's possible to get to who each character is, independent of his
> > or her relationships with others.
>
> Why should removing them create a better picture, as opposed to a more
> incomplete one?
>
> characters' previous personality were still in play and why, it might
> still have succeeded in saying something meaningful about those
> particular aspects of their identities. But because the exact mechanism
> of the mindwipe was never laid down, and characters were influenced by
> their former selves based purely on the need for a gag or a plot point
> at any particular moment, the episode ended up saying nothing about
> anyone.
>
Perhaps the spell was unable to touch anywhere near the subconscious nor the
unconscious.
--
==Harmony Watcher==
(Harmony) Watcher
"Mark Jones" <sin...@pacifier.com> wrote in message
news:gemini.j3piim009...@pacifier.com...
the episode, much more so for the Buffy-Dawn sisterhood than the Spuffy
connection. The way how Buffy and Dawn still identified each other easily as
blood kin despite the memory loss was a loud affirmation that Dawn was made
from Buffy's blood.
--
==Harmony Watcher==
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
you mean the greatest comedy ever produced?
i guess xander doesnt meet most peoples idea of sophistication
what with bowling and comic books and his commerative plate collection
arf meow arf - nsa fodder
ny dnrqn greebevfz ahpyrne obzo vena gnyvona ovt oebgure
if you meet buddha on the usenet killfile him
George W Harris
<jil...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Indeed, it's been shown that amnesia doesn't
affect conditioned reflex. So, Randy would naturally
recoil from attacking a person.
--
/bud...@nirvana.net/h:k
George W. Harris For actual email address, replace each 'u' with an 'i'
George W Harris
<l64o...@dea.spamcon.org> wrote:
:In article <1155015448.0...@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>,
: "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
:
:> Is this how Michelle Branch ended up getting vaguely
:> sorta famous?
:
:The same song was featured at roughly the same time (or maybe a some
:time later) in an episode of Charmed and something else that has slipped
:my mind.
:
:I'm thinking 'clever agent'.
Apropos of familiar songs, the theme song for
"Veronica Mars" ("We used to be friends", by the
Dandy Warhols) was prominently featured in the
"Wonderfalls" episode "Pink Flamingos" (the one with
the high school reunion (man, Chelan Simmons was
*hot* in that dress).
That is all.
George W Harris
:What I particularly noticed this time was the reactions of various
:characters of getting their memories restored.
:
...
:But most striking is Buffy's reaction: she just collapses in agony as if
:a physical weight has pulled her down. Bad enough to experience being
:pulled from heaven once, but now she's had to go through it a second time.
I thought she collapsed in agony because she
got hit in the face?
:Mel
--
"I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar." -Wash, 'Serenity'
Elisi
Oh no. She gets punced and falls over, but the pain on her face has
nothing to do with the beating she's taking. You can see the despair
just flooding though her and it's one of the most haunting things ever.
Poor Buffy.
Sam
Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
>
> Oh, that would have been hilarious. And the JTS meme was pretty w
> proliferated by this point, so I wish they'd thought of it (or maybe
> they did think of it and said "no").
>
I figure "Arrested Development" reached the apex of this particular
joke when they actually had Henry Winkler himself jump over a shark in
an episode poking fun at how the writers had sold out -- all similar
jibes are now superfluous anyway.
>
> Um, no. Christmas episode akin to what many shows do, sure, but I
> think you have to stretch the point past breaking to make it _A
> Christmas Carol_.
>
Er... it does feature a spectre who comes to torment Angel with visions
of his past misdeeds at Christmastime. There are huge marked
differences, but there are some very obvious surface similarities.
--Sam
jil...@hotmail.com
cry...@panix.com wrote:
> jil...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > You know, that wasn't the impression I got at all. I felt he
> > was laughing with sick realisation. I am in the sewers, lacking
> > memory until now, because Willow did a spell. Willow took away
> > my memories and now I've got them back. And I'm not going to
> > have to say anything to her, because I got a look at Tara's
> > face....
>
> But then, what of King Ralph?
My wank is that he'd rather pretend he was laughing at a comedy than
have to talk to them about this.
Clairel
vague disclaimer wrote:
> In article <1155070870.7...@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
> "Clairel" <reld...@usa.net> wrote:
>
> > vague disclaimer wrote:
> > > In article <1155022073.7...@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>,
> > > "Elisi" <eli...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > And this week's kiss is *hot*!
> > >
> > > For some values of 'hot'.
> >
> > --Huh?
> >
> > Clairel
>
> I said "For some values of 'hot'".
--Yeah, that's the part I didn't get.
Clairel
Clairel
Don Sample wrote:
> In article <1155069485....@n13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> "Henry Hartmann" <TEHco...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Actually, there's no evidence that Spike-Randy feels "residual"
> > > affection for Buffy. He does sneer at her plan, then goes along with
> > > it enthusiastically. That's Spike, though. In fact Randy, too, shows
> > > no recognition that he's in love.
> >
> > saw Randy demonstrating any particular affection for Joan. I saw him
> > being brave, and an enthusiastic fighter--which, as you say, is just
> > Spike: his basic nature, which is very combative, coming to the fore.
>
> If his basic nature had been coming to the fore, he should have tried to
> rip all of their throats out, and gotten a blinding headache as a result.
>
> The bizarre behaviour of Randy is my biggest problem with "Tabula Rasa."
--Silly, silly Don.
Vg'f ab zber ovmneer guna Znephf, va "Pnecr Abpgrz," abg ernyvmvat ur
jnf vaunovgvat gur obql bs n inzcver hagvy ur pnzr vagb vagvzngr
pbagnpg jvgu Yvynu, jurerhcba vg fhqqrayl whfg sryg angheny gb uvz gb
ovgr ure arpx, naq fb ur fhqqrayl qvq. Cevbe gb gung zbzrag ba Natry'f
qrfx, gubhtu, Znephf jnfa'g orunivat yvxr n inzcver ng nyy. V qba'g
xabj jung ur znqr bs gur raunaprq inzcvevp frafrf (fzryy, urnevat,
rgp.) gung zhfg unir orra sybbqvat uvz jvgu frafbel vachg juvyr ur jnf
vaunovgvat Natry'f obql, ohg Znephf frrzf gb unir cerggl zhpu vtaberq
nyy gung sbe gur svefg srj ubhef -- naq fb qvq "Enaql" va "Gnohyn
Enfn." Cebonoyl gur ernfba va Enaql'f pnfr jnf gung gur nzarfvn jnf
fhpu na birejuryzvat jbeel gung ur whfg pbhyqa'g cebprff nyy gur
frafbel vachg ur jnf trggvat. Naq fvapr ur qvqa'g pbzr vagb pybfr
pbagnpg jvgu nalobql, nf Znephf qvq jvgu Yvynu, gur ovgvat naq srrqvat
vafgvapg qvqa'g orpbzr birejuryzvat.
Clairel
Clairel
Elisi wrote:
> Henry Hartmann wrote:
>
> > As for his point that there's nothing really triumphant about the final
> > scene in the Bronze, because the Michelle Branch music is really sad,
> > and Buffy is sad that Giles is leaving, and that's the main reason why
> > she ends up making out with Spike in the Bronze, etc., etc. -- well,
> > it's all true enough, and yet somehow the way the making-out scene in
> > the Bronze was filmed had such verve and joie de vivre to it! In
> > defiance of everything that can be pointed out to the contrary, the
> > mood somehow *was* triumhant. That's how I felt when I first saw the
> > episode, and that's how I still feel now. AOQ's word was well chosen,
> > even if paradoxical.
> >
> > Clairel
>
> "We have something, Buffy. It's not pretty, but it's real, and there's
> nothing either one of us can do about it."
> Spike, 'Crush'
--Yes, exactly. The UST had been building up for so long between Buffy
and Spike that viewers (most viewers anyway) just couldn't help wanting
the two of them to finally do something about it. Right or wrong,
pretty or ugly, it just had to be resolved. It's kind of like how
you're watching a caper film like "Ocean's Eleven" or something like
that, and even though the protagonists are trying to do something
illegal (theft, robbery, etc.), you're still rooting for them to get it
done. The relief of suspense, once they've pulled it off, is just so
gratifying. That's the way in which the Bronze scene in TR seemed
"triumphant" back in 2001.
Clairel
Lord Usher
@n13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
>
> Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
>>
>> Oh, that would have been hilarious. And the JTS meme was pretty w
>> proliferated by this point, so I wish they'd thought of it (or maybe
>> they did think of it and said "no").
>>
>
> I figure "Arrested Development" reached the apex of this particular
> joke when they actually had Henry Winkler himself jump over a shark in
> an episode poking fun at how the writers had sold out -- all similar
> jibes are now superfluous anyway.
Well, as long as you don't draw attention to it. :)
--
Lord Usher
"It's a wonderful restaurant!"
Arbitrar Of Quality
(Harmony) Watcher wrote:
> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1155072117.0...@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> > No, no, no, that's not what TR is about at all. The emotional
> > connections are wiped clean, and no one can or should attempt to infer
> > anything from how the characters connect. All that's left is as close
> > as it's possible to get to who each character is, independent of his or
> > her relationships with others.
> >
> No, no, no. The evidence says that nothing was wiped too clean. Buffy and
> Dawn still identified each other correctly as "sisters" in a crowd.
Not much of a crowd. The sisters thing was a guess based on the
circumstances. They're all looking for connections, since they've all
lost their memories together. Giles and Randy decide that they're
father and son, and are completely wrong. And once you adjust for the
British-guy factor, they show each other about the same amount of
affection as Joan and Dawn do. So I'm not seeing "emotional memory" or
whatever you want to call it having any influence here.
> Willow was still attracted to Tara.
You're attracted to women, and in tight quarters with someone who looks
like Amber Benson. Do the math.
> Buffy still came out naturally and unexpectedly as the protector of the gang.
Ah, but I say who the "gang" was doesn't matter so much as the fact
that Joan is a Protector by nature. Even without her identity, she's
got the heart of a Slayer. [I could quote "Helpless" dialogue at you,
but I'm not in the mood.]
>And Randy still wanted to be "good".
That one's a stretch, especially since normally Spike doesn't want to
be "good" so much as to please Buffy.
-AOQ
Wes <>
>I love the whole memory loss thing! :) And I have no problem with Spike
>not remembering that he's vampire. The spell goes something like
>"Cleanse their minds of memories grim" which is not just 'make them
>forget the last three days'.
I had problems with it for a while but yea, just being who they are is
now grim. Even the vampire and the ex-demon.
What a tease this episode is. Showing us a few minutes of Happy Buffy.
Haven't seen that since uh, a while back.
Mel
Except it isn't Buffy who's happy. She's someone with no past and
doesn't even know who she is. What's the point of being happy if you
don't know who you are?
Mel
Don Sample
Mel <melb...@uci.net> wrote:
> What's the point of being happy if you don't know who you are?
>
>
> Mel
What's the point of being *unhappy* if you don't know who you are?
--
Quando omni flunkus moritati
Visit the Buffy Body Count at <http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/>
Mel
Don Sample wrote:
> In article <Z-WdnfBJVq5950fZ...@uci.net>,
> Mel <melb...@uci.net> wrote:
>
>
>>What's the point of being happy if you don't know who you are?
>>
>>
>>Mel
>
>
> What's the point of being *unhappy* if you don't know who you are?
>
I'm not sure I understand your point. Buffy is unhappy, but she knows
who she is and why she's unhappy. She just doesn't know how to fix it,
or if she even wants to.
"Joan" likes being a super hero, but beyond that has no idea who she is
or where she comes from. Some might argue it doesn't matter, that maybe
Buffy was better off this way. Imo, it takes away everything that was
Buffy and replaces it with nothing, a blank slate. How is that a good
thing? You may as well just kill Buffy (again) and start over with a new
Slayer.
Mel
Rowan Hawthorn
> (Harmony) Watcher wrote:
>
>> Willow was still attracted to Tara.
>
> You're attracted to women, and in tight quarters with someone who looks
> like Amber Benson. Do the math.
>
I'd rather not. Any way I add it up, Me + Tight Quarters + Amber Benson
= Restraining Order...
--
Rowan Hawthorn
"Occasionally, I'm callous and strange." - Willow Rosenberg, "Buffy the
Vampire Slayer"
vague disclaimer
Rowan Hawthorn <rowan_h...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
> > (Harmony) Watcher wrote:
> >
> >> Willow was still attracted to Tara.
> >
> > You're attracted to women, and in tight quarters with someone who looks
> > like Amber Benson. Do the math.
> >
>
> I'd rather not. Any way I add it up, Me + Tight Quarters + Amber Benson
> = Restraining Order...
Cool. So you're leaving AH to me? Cheers mate.
--
Wikipedia: like Usenet, moderated by trolls
drifter
> Don Sample wrote:
>
>> In article <Z-WdnfBJVq5950fZ...@uci.net>,
>> Mel <melb...@uci.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> What's the point of being happy if you don't know who you are?
>>>
>>>
>>> Mel
>>
>>
>> What's the point of being *unhappy* if you don't know who you are?
>>
>
> I'm not sure I understand your point. Buffy is unhappy, but she knows
> who she is and why she's unhappy. She just doesn't know how to fix it,
> or if she even wants to.
See, now here's something I posted when the episode in question first aired:
Buffy should be squealing with delight. Why? Because she's the only person
ON THE PLANET who knows EXACTLY where she's going if and when Willow ever
decides to let her finally die. What's a few years of hell-on-earth
compared to *eternal* bliss?
> "Joan" likes being a super hero, but beyond that has no idea who she
> is or where she comes from. Some might argue it doesn't matter, that
> maybe Buffy was better off this way. Imo, it takes away everything
> that was Buffy and replaces it with nothing, a blank slate.
"Tabula Rosa" BTW, literally means "scraped tablet," or less literally,
"blank slate." It's a reference to when the learned wrote on soft clay
tablets, and would erase a slate by scraping it with a flat piece of wood.
> How is that a good thing? You may as well just kill Buffy (again) and
> start over with a new Slayer.
Pnershy; lbh'yy fgneg gur jubyr "guveq fynlre" nethzrag ntnva.
Not sure if that's a spoiler anymore.
--
Kel
"It may be that your sole purpose in life is to serve as a warning to
others."
Mel
drifter wrote:
> Mel wrote:
>
>>Don Sample wrote:
>>
>>
>>>In article <Z-WdnfBJVq5950fZ...@uci.net>,
>>> Mel <melb...@uci.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>What's the point of being happy if you don't know who you are?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Mel
>>>
>>>
>>>What's the point of being *unhappy* if you don't know who you are?
>>>
>>
>>I'm not sure I understand your point. Buffy is unhappy, but she knows
>>who she is and why she's unhappy. She just doesn't know how to fix it,
>>or if she even wants to.
>
>
> See, now here's something I posted when the episode in question first aired:
> Buffy should be squealing with delight. Why? Because she's the only person
> ON THE PLANET who knows EXACTLY where she's going if and when Willow ever
> decides to let her finally die. What's a few years of hell-on-earth
> compared to *eternal* bliss?
>
>
>>"Joan" likes being a super hero, but beyond that has no idea who she
>>is or where she comes from. Some might argue it doesn't matter, that
>>maybe Buffy was better off this way. Imo, it takes away everything
>>that was Buffy and replaces it with nothing, a blank slate.
>
>
> "Tabula Rosa" BTW, literally means "scraped tablet," or less literally,
> "blank slate." It's a reference to when the learned wrote on soft clay
> tablets, and would erase a slate by scraping it with a flat piece of wood.
>
Wouldn't "Tabula Rosa" translate to "red tablet"??? ;-)
Mel
drifter
> "Tabula Rosa" BTW, literally means "scraped tablet," or less
> literally, "blank slate." It's a reference to when the learned wrote
> on soft clay tablets, and would erase a slate by scraping it with a
> flat piece of wood.
I meant Tabula *Rasa*, of course. I *always* misspell that for some reason.
--
Kel
"I reject your reality, and substitute my own."
drifter
> Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
>> (Harmony) Watcher wrote:
>>
>>> Willow was still attracted to Tara.
>>
>> You're attracted to women, and in tight quarters with someone who
>> looks like Amber Benson. Do the math.
>>
>
> I'd rather not. Any way I add it up, Me + Tight Quarters + Amber
> Benson = Restraining Order...
My math comes out: Me + Tight Quarters + Amber Benson = Even Tighter
Quarters.
Rowan Hawthorn
<snort> Now where did I say that? (Substitute either AB or AH - be VY -
as the variable in that equation and the end result is the same...)
Rowan Hawthorn
> Rowan Hawthorn wrote:
>> Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
>>> (Harmony) Watcher wrote:
>>>
>>>> Willow was still attracted to Tara.
>>> You're attracted to women, and in tight quarters with someone who
>>> looks like Amber Benson. Do the math.
>>>
>> I'd rather not. Any way I add it up, Me + Tight Quarters + Amber
>> Benson = Restraining Order...
>
> My math comes out: Me + Tight Quarters + Amber Benson = Even Tighter
> Quarters.
>
Exactly, and therefore Restraining Order...
Kermit
> Kermit wrote:
>> Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
>>> threads.
>>>
>>>
>>> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
>>> Season Six, Episode 7: "Tabula Rasa"
>>> (or "I don't want to learn what I'll need to forget")
>>> Writer: Rebecca Rand Kirshner
>>> Director: David Grossman
>>>
>>> On a more interesting note, the Scoobies have a chance to discuss
>>> pulling Buffy out of her heeeeeeaven-dimension. The discussion starts
>>> that way, anyway, with Xander coming off as too clueless comic-relief
>>> for my tastes. Willow shows how she can be so simultaneously
>>> understanding and clueless when talking about her selfishness, and then
>>> in the next breath suggesting a "fix" that ignores the underlying
>>> issues. And that's a natural transition into another confrontation
>>> with Tara. As with the one in ATW, this comes off approximately 387
>>> times better than when the same writer tried this in "Tough Love."
>>> Tara's been waiting on this, so her language is brutal, cutting
>>> through any attempts to brush the forgetting spell away as no big deal.
>>> The word "violate" seems to finally get Willow's attention, as
>>> does the unexpected connection to Glory, and "maybe [helping people
>>> is] how it started, but ... you're helping yourself now, fixing things
>>> to your liking. Including me." Ouch. And things are well put
>>> together: note how Wil is on some level trying to apologize and make
>>> amends, but then Tara keeps overwhelming her with more, and suggesting
>>> that no matter what happens, she may leave her. Thus the viewer is
>>> able to sympathize with Willow having things "suddenly" fall apart
>>> this way while at the same time totally supporting where Tara's
>>> coming from.
>>
>>
>> Here's an unpleasant and sad little thought to add to the mix.
>>
>> I would appear at least one day (possibly several) have gone by
between the end of OMWF and the beginning of Tabula Rasa. Everyone has
changed clothes, plus Tara comments on the need to stop obsessing about
Buffy, which would be an odd thing to say if it was later the same night.
>>
>> And yet, Tara has not said anything to Willow about what she knows.
Why is that? Maybe it's because Tara has being trying to find something
(spell, amulet, etc.) to protect herself against Willow trying to recast
the memory alteration spell.
>>
>> Imagine how that must feel for Tara. The one person that she cared
for more than anyone, and the trust she had in Willow is now so
completely destroyed that she feels that she has has to assume the
worst. It's a fair bet Tara feels some guilt (needless, but who ever
said guilt was a rational thing) over this.
>>
>> So, what happens: Tara hears Willow casually talking about playing
with someone else's brain, loses it and confronts her before she is
ready. And then, Willow does EXACTLY what Tara, in her darkest heart of
hearts, feared she would do. Without, as far as anything that was shown
on screen can show us, a single second of hesitation.
>>
>> Willow isn't stupid, even if somehow she managed to not see how
wrong what she did to Tara was the first (a prospect I find difficult to
believe), what excuse did she have in TR?
>
> Panic. It's not an *acceptable* excuse, but there it is - Willow
always thinks she can "fix" things, but she wants a quick, *easy* fix,
just like in "Something Blue":
>
> WILLOW: I just can’t stand feeling this way. I want it to be over.
>
> BUFFY: It will. I promise. But it’s going to take time.
>
> WILLOW: Well, that’s not good enough.
>
> BUFFY: I know. It’s just how it is. You have to go through the pain.
>
> WILLOW: Well, isn’t there someway I can just make it go away? Just
’cause I say so? Can’t I just make it go ‘poof’?
>
> It's also interesting to note that it's almost exactly two years
since "Something Blue," which means Willow's just gone through the
second anniversary of Oz's leaving her - and now, *Tara's* breaking up
with her, on *top* of her just finding out that she pulled Buffy out of
a Good Place. Triple stomach punch...
>
Cnavp, lbh zrna yvxr Jneera va "Qrnq Guvatf"?
Maybe she did panic, which is I suppose marginally better than
cold-bloodedly deciding what she wanted mattered more than what Tara
wanted. I am just not sure if it matters. Honestly, Buffy has staked
things for committing less overtly evil acts.
Kermit
> On Tue, 08 Aug 2006 12:39:38 GMT, Kermit <noe...@here.com> wrote:
>
>> Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
>>> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
>>> threads.
>>>
>>>
>>> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
>>> Season Six, Episode 7: "Tabula Rasa"
>>> (or "I don't want to learn what I'll need to forget")
>>> Writer: Rebecca Rand Kirshner
>>> Director: David Grossman
>>
>> I would appear at least one day (possibly several) have gone by
between the end of OMWF and the beginning of Tabula Rasa. Everyone has
changed clothes, plus Tara comments on the need to stop obsessing about
Buffy, which would be an odd thing to say if it was later the same night.
>
> and Anya's apartment is the morning of the following day (that is, if the
> mian part of OMWF went down on Tuesday night, this is Wednesday morning),
> so Tara hasn't put the breakup off, really. She was probably waiting to
> talk to Willow in private, but when Willow made the suggestion to do the
> memory spell on Buffy, she exploded.
Not wanting to get dragged down in details here, but the opening scene
in Xander and Anya's apartment occurs, it is definitely nighttime.
So, either Willow and Tara , went home and changed clothes and then went
over to Xander and Anya's later that same night, or it is the next
evening. Heck, in the first scene of the ep with the loan shark, Buffy
and even Spike have changed clothes from the end of OMWF.
It seem very unlikely to me that less than 24 hours has passed, which
means Tara would have had plenty of opportunity to confront Willow if
she had wanted to. Of course I am sure you could come up with other
reasons why she didn't, but I will stick with mine as it seems to fit
the facts pretty well.
>
> Also, someone else mentions about Buffy and others figuring out who
Willow
> was targeting with the spell. Xander and Anya retreated to their bedroom
> when Tara went off on Willow, but had to pretty much hear it all. They
> know that Willow wanted to use the spell to make Buffy forget she had
been
> in heaven, and that she had been using the spell on Tara to control her
> (not even Tara believes that was the first time Willow used the spell on
> her, and, well, look at the size of her lethe bramble stash).
>
>> So, what happens: Tara hears Willow casually talking about playing
with someone else's brain, loses it and confronts her before she is
ready. And then, Willow does EXACTLY what Tara, in her darkest heart of
hearts, feared she would do. Without, as far as anything that was shown
on screen can show us, a single second of hesitation.
>
> So the timeline, near as I can make out.
>
> OWMF ends on Tuesday night
>
> Scoobies gather at Xander's Wednesday morning, Tara blows up at Willow,
> Willow swears to not use magic (Tara only asks for a week). Giles makes
> arrangements to fly back to England
>
> Thursday morning, Willow uses magic (one of the shortest weeks in
recorded
> history).
>
> Thursday evening, Giles informs Buffy of his plans, the spell kicks
in, fun
> is had by all.
Actually, Giles told Buffy before Willow decided her right to a love
slave was greater than Tara's right of self-determination.
> Thursday night, Tara leaves Willow.
>
> -- "Timothy Dalton should get an Oscar and beat Sean Connery over
the head with it!"
> -The Other Guy (you know, Tucker's brother)
Mel
And then to go on about Tara leaving "for no good reason" in Smashed.
Was she trying to convince herself of that, or did she really believe
it? Willow has some serious issues; magic is just the vehicle, not the
root.
Mel
Mel
Kermit wrote:
It's possible they've been up all night discussing what happened,
obsessing over it, as Tara says.
Mel
Rowan Hawthorn
You asked what her excuse was. You didn't ask if it was a *good* one...
Rowan Hawthorn
>
>
> Kermit wrote:
>>
>> Maybe she did panic, which is I suppose marginally better than
>> cold-bloodedly deciding what she wanted mattered more than what Tara
>> wanted. I am just not sure if it matters. Honestly, Buffy has staked
>> things for committing less overtly evil acts.
>>
>
> And then to go on about Tara leaving "for no good reason" in Smashed.
> Was she trying to convince herself of that, or did she really believe
> it? Willow has some serious issues; magic is just the vehicle, not the
> root.
Exactly, and we've known that for quite a while now if we've been paying
attention.
peachy ashie passion
> Mel wrote:
>
>>Don Sample wrote:
>>
>>
>>>In article <Z-WdnfBJVq5950fZ...@uci.net>,
>>> Mel <melb...@uci.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>What's the point of being happy if you don't know who you are?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Mel
>>>
>>>
>>>What's the point of being *unhappy* if you don't know who you are?
>>>
>>
>>I'm not sure I understand your point. Buffy is unhappy, but she knows
>>who she is and why she's unhappy. She just doesn't know how to fix it,
>>or if she even wants to.
>
>
> See, now here's something I posted when the episode in question first aired:
> Buffy should be squealing with delight. Why? Because she's the only person
> ON THE PLANET who knows EXACTLY where she's going if and when Willow ever
> decides to let her finally die. What's a few years of hell-on-earth
> compared to *eternal* bliss?
>
No, she knows that if she died right then, making a sacrifice to
save the world, she goes to heaven.
She doesn't know what the future will bring, or if she gets hit by a
mack truck in a year that she'll still go to heaven.
peachy ashie passion
> Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
>
>> (Harmony) Watcher wrote:
>>
>>> Willow was still attracted to Tara.
>>
>>
>> You're attracted to women, and in tight quarters with someone who looks
>> like Amber Benson. Do the math.
>>
>
> I'd rather not. Any way I add it up, Me + Tight Quarters + Amber Benson
> = Restraining Order...
>
aww, I don't think she'd be all over you THAT bad!!!
Clairel
--I don't know about him wanting to be good in Tabula Rasa. Well,
maybe in the last part of the episode, when he finds out he's a vampire
whom other vampires are hostile to, and thus concludes that he must be
a good-guy. But earlier in the episode?
Amnesiac Randy just started out wanting to figure out the mysterious
situation. Then when the vampires attacked the entrance of the Magic
Shop, and were targeting him in particular, he naturally wanted to
cling to the group of people in the shop, so that he wouldn't be alone
against a hostile gang. He also saw very soon that Joan was a
superhero who was capable of destroying vampires. Mere
self-preservation alone would dictate that he should stick close to
her, and cooperate with whatever plan she thought best.
Back ins 2001, Lord Usher even had an argument (an over-elaborate and
strained argument, I thought then, but maybe there's something to it)
that Randy's willingness to provide the vampires with the "spikes" that
he thought they wanted showed how amoral and lacking in conscience he
was. After all, it was another member of the Scoobies who questioned
what the vampires would do with the stakes, and had moral qualms about
providing them with deadly weapons.
The later scene, out on the street, with Randy feeling his teeth and
forehead and then deciding he's a noble vampire, always struck me
differently than it did most viewers. I could tell that the writers
were going for a comical effect, and AOQ testifies that the whole
speech had him chuckling; but I always found it kind of sad and
poignant.
After Buffy regains her memory and bolts, refusing Spike's proffered
helping hand, I always thought that his bowed head, slumped shoulders,
and sigh were very sad and touching, also. But I may be the only one,
since nobody ever mentions this.
Clairel
(Harmony) Watcher
"Clairel" <reld...@usa.net> wrote in message
news:1155180008....@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
>
> <snip>
>
> The later scene, out on the street, with Randy feeling his teeth and
> forehead and then deciding he's a noble vampire, always struck me
> differently than it did most viewers. I could tell that the writers
> were going for a comical effect, and AOQ testifies that the whole
> speech had him chuckling; but I always found it kind of sad and
> poignant.
>
> After Buffy regains her memory and bolts, refusing Spike's proffered
> helping hand, I always thought that his bowed head, slumped shoulders,
> and sigh were very sad and touching, also. But I may be the only one,
> since nobody ever mentions this.
>
nonverbally this time?
--
==Harmony Watcher==
vague disclaimer
Rowan Hawthorn <rowan_h...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Cool. So you're leaving AH to me? Cheers mate.
>
> <snort> Now where did I say that?
It was implied....
Rowan Hawthorn
> In article <WOKdnYYnN_UxDEfZ...@giganews.com>,
> Rowan Hawthorn <rowan_h...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> Cool. So you're leaving AH to me? Cheers mate.
>> <snort> Now where did I say that?
>
> It was implied....
I'd call that a radical interpretation of the text...