AOQ Review 3-22: "Graduation Day (Part Two)"
Arbitrar Of Quality
threads.
BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
Season Three, Episode 22: "Graduation Day (Part Two)"
(or "School's out forever!")
Writer: Joss Whedon
Director: Joss Whedon
Perhaps I was spoiled by Bec2, which not only delivered the action
goods but tried to rip the viewer's heart out of his chest in the
process. "Graduation Day," on the other hand, seems to have left a
good portion of its emotional and character moments in Part I, allowing
Part II to be a big action setpiece. It basically comes down to big
CGI monster appears, Buffy outsmarts it (and this isn't exactly a
huge intellectual triumph), dead big monster.
The central conflict early on involves Angel, who's getting delirious
and considering backing out of his pledge to leave Sunnydale, and the
only remaining source for Slayer blood. A little too much melodrama
for my tastes there, but there's enough real intensity too that it
works okay. Now, actions often speak louder than speeches on this
show, and later events tend to suggest that this was enough to make
them re-realize the inevitability of separating. That aspect wasn't
as strong for me, since it speaks more to the general problem of how
obsessive Buffy can get with love. Of course maybe there'll never be
anyone else who affects her the way Angel does, but it's hard to
state that definitively at this point.
Also of interest: note that despite being suicidally stupid and
everything, Buffy ends up being right. Angel doesn't take all her
blood, and it saves both of them.
So Faith is Wilkins' big weakness. It's done effectively enough,
despite the obviousness, mostly because Groener brings it when turning
up the violent rage. His chuckling in later scenes after he calms down
also seems more forced than ever.
There's a solid little bit where Angel has to deal with how much of
the truth to tell Giles and the others. He seems like he's trying to
be forthright, but not quite able to. No denials or hiding things in
any case. Xander's "good to know that when the chips are down and
things look grim you'll feed off the girl who loves you to save your
own ass" makes sense under the circumstances, considering how things
look from a Zeppo's-eye perspective.
I broke my usual watch-then-review-immediately routine and watched
Buffy and Faith's final conversation three times, hoping to come up
with something wise to say about it. All I'll say is that it's
captivating: visuals, music, tone of dialogue, the whole deal. And it
has a cat in it, and cats make me happy. The line I think I'll
remember most is "scar tissue. It fades. It all fades." Faith
seems like she wouldn't mind a little fading, passing everything on
to her counterpart, for better or worse. There's a lot that's
still a riddle to me here, but it's the kind of confusion that
engenders fascination, not annoyance. Also strange is that the
conversation is a bit of magic that isn't explained by anything
introduced so far in the Buffyverse. We wonder stuff like "is this
your head or mine?" but no one really seems to desire an answer
beyond accepting the miracle. Will it all make sense eventually, or
will we just leave it at that? I was expecting to have a clear answer
by the end of GD2 on whether Faith would ever be back, but I still
don't know - she seems unlikely to ever wake up, but then why not
just outright kill her off? Of course that could be a way to eliminate
her without having to write in a new Slayer. Rhetorical musing here,
nothing you need answer.
Speaking of eventual payoffs, forgot to mention it in the GD1 review,
but we're really going to let that First Evil thing go for now, huh?
Is Angel just kinda dealing with the psychosis? Maybe it'll follow
him to the new show.
Of interest: Giles - "Buffy no longer needs a Watcher." Would
you go that far?
You know the kissing scene between Cordelia and Wesley? I was oddly
detached there. I neither like nor dislike it, because I could see the
humor there and intellectually say that it was kinda funny, but
didn't so much as crack a smile.
As I've mentioned a few times, I'm a fan of laconic or completely
dialogue-free scenes where appropriate. Buffy and Angel's last
meeting was predictable enough that it didn't do a huge deal for me,
but how about their last conversation? Acknowledge the facts, and move
on. Like I've said, taking it as a given that almost anything after
"Becoming" would be a letdown, there's an inevitability here that
makes sense. After florid speeches and killing and almost killing each
other didn't work, the only way left for it can end is if they both
choose to walk away.
Much of what GD2 is missing in nuance, it makes up for in noise. The
sight of the SHS class - jocks, geeks, cliques, and freaks - all
coming together to fight for their future is suitably pulse-pounding.
No new insights, but it makes sense after "Earshot" and "The
Prom." Untrained (or briefly-trained) kids showing that kind of
precision targeting with the arrows is pretty ludicrous, but it's not
a big enough problem to warrant much complaining. Nor is the
unfunniness of Wesley's contribution. I think this is Cordelia's
first time staking a vamp (I'm not counting "Anne"). Also, after
all the time Angel's been "weak," it's good to see him tearing
through a mass of enemies.
And amidst all this, we say goodbye to Principal Snyder as he's
complaining about things getting too disorderly. Bye. As far as I'm
concerned, despite promises to the contrary from the ATBVS community,
you stayed an intermittanty-amusing caricature with the depth of a
kiddie pool until the bitter end, and you won't be missed. Except
that now I won't have the chance to use "hew-mons. All you care
about is yourselves" as an alternate episode title; the opportunity
just never presented itself. (I hadn't known that Shimerman's two
highest-profile TV gigs ended so close together. He doesn't exactly
seem to have been hurting for work since, though.)
This Is Really Stupid But I Laughed Anyway moment(s):
- "I personally don't think it's possible to come up with a
crazier plan." "We attack him with hummus." "I stand
corrected."
- "You mean in front of other people?!" [But why wasn't Willow
the one recruiting Harmony? It'd seem more appropriate given GD1.
Or maybe Cordelia.]
- "Oh my god! He's going to do the entire speech!" "Just
ascend already!"
- The Mayor's twitching transformation as he tries to bring his
speech to a close
And as a final note, as obvious and dumb as it is, if you're the
writer of the show, is there any possible way that you don't end the
high school stories with the Slaypack blowing up the school? It's the
only ending there could be. Would that the rest of us had that option.
Mrs. Q. predicted that the ME monster would wear a graduation cap. It
made her night.
So Season Three goes out with neither a substantial bang nor a whimper,
but one of those fun little things hat you throw on the ground and it
makes popping sounds. And that's it for _Buffy: The High School
Years_. I'm glad I found this show. I think S3 was clearly the best
year so far, and look forward to many years of loudly proclaiming that
to anyone who'll listen. I've been led to believe that we're now
at one of those big turning points at which the show Jumps The Shark
and/or gets *really* good and/or remains the same show all things
considered. I welcome you all to come along to see how well it can
reinvent itself without the high school theme that's been so central
to the series.
AOQ Reviews return soon with double the potential Mutant Enemy pleasure
and fun. I'm going to try to give you guys the traditional 5-7 days,
so that those who don't have _Buffy_ S4 or _Angel_ S1 on hand (you
know who you are) can consider rectifying the situation. But I don't
know how long I'll be able to hold off on watching more, so hop to
it. See you soon.
So...
One-sentence summary: Good for a smile.
AOQ rating: Good
[Season Three ratings:
1) "Anne" - Decent
2) "Dead Man's Party" - Excellent
3) "Faith, Hope, And Trick" - Good
4) "Beauty And The Beasts" - Decent
5) "Homecoming" - Good
6) "Band Candy" - Weak
7) "Revelations" - Good
8) "Lovers Walk" - Excellent
9) "The Wish" - Decent
10) "Amends" - Good
11) "Gingerbread" - Good
12) "Helpless" - Excellent
13) "The Zeppo" - Decent
14) "Bad Girls" - Good
15) "Consequences" - Excellent
16) "Doppelgängland" - Decent
17) "Enemies" - Good
18) "Earshot" - Decent
19) "Choices" - Good
20) "The Prom" - Good
21) "Graduation Day (Part One)" - Excellent
22) "Graduation Day (Part Two)" - Good]
BY THE NUMBERS
_Buffy The Vampire Slayer_ Season Three
Bad - 0
Weak - 1
Decent - 6
Good - 10
Excellent - 5
Average rating: 3.86 ["Good"] (Decent=3)
Quality Percentage [% of episodes ranking Good or higher]: 68%
_Buffy The Vampire Slayer_ so far
Bad - 2
Weak - 3
Decent - 16
Good - 24
Excellent - 11
Ratings by season:
S1: Mean = 3.67, 50% quality
S2: Mean = 3.55, 64% quality
S3: Mean= 3.86, 68% quality
Series so far: Mean = 3.70, 63% quality
Don Sample
"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
>
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Three, Episode 22: "Graduation Day (Part Two)"
> (or "School's out forever!")
> Writer: Joss Whedon
> Director: Joss Whedon
> Speaking of eventual payoffs, forgot to mention it in the GD1 review,
> but we're really going to let that First Evil thing go for now, huh?
> Is Angel just kinda dealing with the psychosis? Maybe it'll follow
> him to the new show.
As we saw with the Mayor, sometimes they take a couple of years to pay
off things that they introduce. And some things that people think
should have been addressed never are.
> And as a final note, as obvious and dumb as it is, if you're the
> writer of the show, is there any possible way that you don't end the
> high school stories with the Slaypack blowing up the school? It's the
> only ending there could be. Would that the rest of us had that option.
And it was foreshadowed back in 'The Harvest':
"Well, I gotta look on the bright side," says Buffy. "Maybe I
can still get kicked out of school!"
"Oh, yeah, thats a plan," says Xander, "'Cause lots of schools
aren't on Hellmouths."
"Maybe you could blow something up," suggests Willow. "They're
really strict about that."
--
Quando omni flunkus moritati
Visit the Buffy Body Count at <http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/>
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
> Buffy and Faith's final conversation three times, hoping to come up
> with something wise to say about it. All I'll say is that it's
> captivating: visuals, music, tone of dialogue, the whole deal. And it
> has a cat in it, and cats make me happy. The line I think I'll
> remember most is "scar tissue. It fades. It all fades." Faith
> seems like she wouldn't mind a little fading, passing everything on
and buffy kisses faith goodbye
the anger and pain can fade away leaving their bond
> Speaking of eventual payoffs, forgot to mention it in the GD1 review,
> but we're really going to let that First Evil thing go for now, huh?
> Is Angel just kinda dealing with the psychosis? Maybe it'll follow
> him to the new show.
some of these villians are just the monster of the week
a one time villian just to make a point for one episode
> Much of what GD2 is missing in nuance, it makes up for in noise. The
> sight of the SHS class - jocks, geeks, cliques, and freaks - all
> coming together to fight for their future is suitably pulse-pounding.
note that for some of the older viewers
high school graduation meant draft eligiblity
and a chance for an all expense paid vacation
to sunny fun-filled vietnam (or korea or germany or japan etc)
speaking of shoveling kids into the belly of a demon
arf meow arf - nsa fodder
al qaeda terrorism nuclear bomb iran taliban big brother
if you meet buddha on the usenet killfile him
KenM47
>A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
>threads.
>
>
>BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
>Season Three, Episode 22: "Graduation Day (Part Two)"
>(or "School's out forever!")
>Writer: Joss Whedon
>Director: Joss Whedon
>
<SNIP>
Well, this has been fun. But now the overwhelming sadness. Sadness for
what was and what will be. Nostalgia for that feeling of triumph upon
leaving high school; nostalgia for the moment I first saw this episode
6 1/2 years ago. The best may be yet to come, certainly greatness
still ahead at times, but this was the perfect ending, IMO. It's where
the show was going from WttH. It's what the vision was.
Buffy, grown, mature, a leader, capable of putting behind what was and
face what will be, unafraid, and recognizing her place in the cosmos.
Commanding with authority and respect. Graduated. A great closing
shot, a terrific "up" moment to bring the curtain down.
Hasbeghangryl, gb xrrc guvatf tbvat, gurl unq gb erterff ure gb ng
gvzrf nyzbfg na vasnagvyr fgngr; ercynl vafrpher Ohssl nq anhfrhz,
zhpu gb gur qrgevzrag bs znal shgher ubhef. Naq znxr rorelbar haunccl
naq ha yvxrnoyr. Nynf.
Thanks again AOQ. I didn't always agree with your viewpoint, but this
was a lot of fun. More often than not. And thanks to all the others
who posted in these threads. Entertaining, informative, and even a
little cathartic. It was nice to revisit the Buffy that kept me
anxious for what will they do next.
BTW, IMO, GD2 was and always will be: Excellent.
Ken (Brooklyn)
MBangel10 (Melissa)
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
>
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Three, Episode 22: "Graduation Day (Part Two)"
> (or "School's out forever!")
> Writer: Joss Whedon
> Director: Joss Whedon
>
This episode has one bit of dialog that I still use to this day.
"Fire bad. Tree pretty" :)
Thank you for the reviews. I agree that S3 is a better overall season
than 2. However, the best episodes are yet to come... (IMHO).
>
> One-sentence summary: Good for a smile.
>
> AOQ rating: Good
>
<snip>
Stephen Tempest
>Perhaps I was spoiled by Bec2, which not only delivered the action
>goods but tried to rip the viewer's heart out of his chest in the
>process. "Graduation Day," on the other hand, seems to have left a
>good portion of its emotional and character moments in Part I, allowing
>Part II to be a big action setpiece. It basically comes down to big
>CGI monster appears, Buffy outsmarts it (and this isn't exactly a
>huge intellectual triumph), dead big monster.
Thus proving, once again, that Turning Into A Snake Never Helps.
Do I detect a revaluation upwards of your rating for Becoming 2? :)
>The central conflict early on involves Angel, who's getting delirious
>and considering backing out of his pledge to leave Sunnydale, and the
>only remaining source for Slayer blood. A little too much melodrama
>for my tastes there, but there's enough real intensity too that it
>works okay.
Plus, one of the hottest (pseudo)-sex scenes ever shown on the show,
from the moment Buffy seductively pulls aside her blouse to reveal her
neck, to her orgasmic crushing of the metal cup-thingy...
>I broke my usual watch-then-review-immediately routine and watched
>Buffy and Faith's final conversation three times,
Well, it's certainly worth re-watching. One of my favourite scenes of
the entire series.
"Who's gonna look after him?"
"It's a she. And aren't these things supposed to take care of
themselves?"
"A higher power guiding us?"
"Pretty sure that's not what I meant."
"There's something I'm supposed to be doing."
"Oh yeah. Miles to go. Little Miss Muffet counting down from 7-3-0."
"Oh, great. Riddles."
"Sorry. It's my head. Lotta new stuff. They're never gonna fix this,
are they?"
"What about you?"
"Scar tissue. It fades, it all fades.You wanna know the deal? Human
weakness. It never goes away. Even his."
"Is this your mind or mine?"
"Beats me. Gettin' towards that time."
"How are you gonna fit all this stuff?"
"Not gonna. It's yours."
"I can't use all this."
"Just take what you need. You ready?"
As I said before in the "Favourite tear-jerking moments" thread:
I know, not an obvious sad moment, but it still always gets to me -
it's more wistful, a demonstration that Buffy and Faith could have
been friends if everything hadn't gone horribly wrong between them. A
moment of quiet after the storm (and before the even bigger storm
that's coming).
> Also strange is that the
>conversation is a bit of magic that isn't explained by anything
>introduced so far in the Buffyverse. We wonder stuff like "is this
>your head or mine?" but no one really seems to desire an answer
>beyond accepting the miracle. Will it all make sense eventually, or
>will we just leave it at that?
At the time, I saw it like this: they're both Slayers, and only one
Slayer is supposed to be alive at the same time. In a sense, then,
they're the same person - or two sides of the same person. Whatever
mystical force sends the prophetic dreams to Buffy presumably also
sends them to Faith... and if both girls are lying unconscious in
adjacent rooms the day before an Apocalypse, why shouldn't they have
the same dream?
>Of interest: Giles - "Buffy no longer needs a Watcher." Would
>you go that far?
Depends if he meant it. :) Letting your 18-year old child stand on
her own two feet and make her own mistakes is a good thing, but most
parents keep a watchful (heh) eye and get ready to jump back in if
they're needed...
>Much of what GD2 is missing in nuance, it makes up for in noise. The
>sight of the SHS class - jocks, geeks, cliques, and freaks - all
>coming together to fight for their future is suitably pulse-pounding.
I have to say that the whole fight scene left me cold. I could see
they were wanting to go for the whole big-budget, epic battle feel,
but it had much less emotional impact than, say, the one-on-one B/F
fight.
>I think this is Cordelia's
>first time staking a vamp (I'm not counting "Anne").
As I recall, she made a special request to Joss to let her do it just
that once...
Other points to mention:
Willow and Oz rushing late to the graduation ceremony together,
pulling their clothes back on...
The final payoff with Faith's knife.
Angel dosed up on Buffy's blood, not knowing his own strength and
pulling off door handes and throwing the Mayor around...
"He's delirious. He thought I was Buffy." "You too, huh?"
"That's the basic plan. So. Am I crazy?"
"Well, crazy's a strong word..."
"Let's not rule it out though."
Stephen
Don Sample
Stephen Tempest <steph...@stempest.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> I have to say that the whole fight scene left me cold. I could see
> they were wanting to go for the whole big-budget, epic battle feel,
> but it had much less emotional impact than, say, the one-on-one B/F
> fight.
And we didn't get to see all of their big budget explosion. The WB was
so hyper-sensitive after Columbine that they made Joss edit out some of
it.
Their explosion set of car alarms for a block around the Torrence High.
The city of Torrence banned them for the next year.
And the original version of their conversation at the end was all about
how cool it was that they got to blow up the school.
Even after Joss made the changes that the WB demanded, they got cold
feet at the last minute, and decided not to show it at it's originally
scheduled time. (So last minute that Fox couldn't get in touch with the
programming people at the Canadian stations showing it to tell them to
pull it. (Helped by it being a holiday weekend in Canada, and I suspect
a few fibs along the lines of "You have to talk to Mr. Smith about that,
and he's gone to his cottage. ... No he doesn't have a phone there."))
Apteryx
news:1143922584.4...@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
>threads.
>Perhaps I was spoiled by Bec2, which not only delivered the action
>goods but tried to rip the viewer's heart out of his chest in the
>process.
Has Becoming 2 grown on you? IIRC you only rated it as "Good" at the time.
>Also of interest: note that despite being suicidally stupid and
>everything, Buffy ends up being right. Angel doesn't take all her
>blood, and it saves both of them.
I give them a pass on this one because she is in fact quite deliberately
being suicidally stupid. She's not just being reckless. Her prime goal is
saving Angel. Surviving it deliberately comes second. Its way better than
shows where the hero is suicidally reckless without recognising the fact.
Plus this is as close to sex as a couple who Aren't Allowed can get.
>There's a solid little bit where Angel has to deal with how much of
>the truth to tell Giles and the others. He seems like he's trying to
>be forthright, but not quite able to. No denials or hiding things in
>any case. Xander's "good to know that when the chips are down and
>things look grim you'll feed off the girl who loves you to save your
>own ass" makes sense under the circumstances, considering how things
>look from a Zeppo's-eye perspective.
A good scene. And I agree that Xander's anger is justified from his
perspective, even if not from the audience's, who saw Angel bullied into it
by Buffy while in a weakened state.
>Of interest: Giles - "Buffy no longer needs a Watcher." Would
>you go that far?
I think he is still prickly with Wesley over having been replaced by him. As
to whether Buffy "needs" a Watcher - for what value of "needs"? Strictly
speaking, Buffy hasn't absolutely "needed" a Watcher since her first Watcher
(In the movie, or in Becoming I) filled her in on the reality of vampires
and her role in all that. But can she still make use of others' experience?
Who can't? But these past few episodes deifinitely mark a greatly reduced
reliance on the kind of experience the Watchers have supplied.
>Much of what GD2 is missing in nuance, it makes up for in noise. The
>sight of the SHS class - jocks, geeks, cliques, and freaks - all
>coming together to fight for their future is suitably pulse-pounding.
>No new insights, but it makes sense after "Earshot" and "The
>Prom." Untrained (or briefly-trained) kids showing that kind of
>precision targeting with the arrows is pretty ludicrous, but it's not
>a big enough problem to warrant much complaining.
It's also not without cost. We see kids killed. Some because they weren't
disciplined enough, and broke and ran.
>Mrs. Q. predicted that the ME monster would wear a graduation cap. It
>made her night.
Congratulations to Mrs Q. There's not enough of the special ME monsters to
make them easily predictable (even if most seem predictable after the event)
AOQ rating: Good
I'd agree with that. A fitting end for a Good Season. For me, its the 24th
best BtVS episode, 5th best in Season 3
--
Apteryx
BTR1701
> (or "School's out forever!")
You're gonna wish you'd saved this one for further on down the road.
> I broke my usual watch-then-review-immediately routine and watched
> Buffy and Faith's final conversation three times, hoping to come up
> with something wise to say about it. All I'll say is that it's
> captivating: visuals, music, tone of dialogue, the whole deal. And it
> has a cat in it, and cats make me happy. The line I think I'll
> remember most is "scar tissue. It fades. It all fades." Faith
> seems like she wouldn't mind a little fading, passing everything on
> to her counterpart, for better or worse. There's a lot that's
> still a riddle to me here, but it's the kind of confusion that
> engenders fascination, not annoyance.
It's at this point that you're supposed to start obsessively wondering
and commenting on what "Miles to go... Little Miss Muffet counting down
from 7-3-0" actually means. And I mean 1000-post threads on the subject.
> I think this is Cordelia's first time staking a vamp
Yep. That scene was put in at Carpenter's request. She'd never staked
one before and since she was leaving for the spinoff, she wanted to get
at least one under her belt.
BTR1701
Sample <dsa...@synapse.net> wrote:
> In article <rgst2219salv893o8...@4ax.com>,
> Stephen Tempest <steph...@stempest.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >
> > I have to say that the whole fight scene left me cold. I could see
> > they were wanting to go for the whole big-budget, epic battle feel,
> > but it had much less emotional impact than, say, the one-on-one B/F
> > fight.
>
> And we didn't get to see all of their big budget explosion. The WB was
> so hyper-sensitive after Columbine that they made Joss edit out some of
> it.
>
> Their explosion set of car alarms for a block around the Torrence High.
> The city of Torrence banned them for the next year.
This is something I don't get. A production company doesn't get to set
off explosions like that without the local authorities being in the loop
right down to every detail from the get-go. The Torrance police, fire
department and the city council had to know ahead of time exactly what
was planned and what would happen.
So for them to turn around after the fact and act so surprised and angry
is ridiculous.
BTR1701
<Ken...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
>
> >A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> >threads.
> >
> >
> >BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> >Season Three, Episode 22: "Graduation Day (Part Two)"
> >(or "School's out forever!")
> >Writer: Joss Whedon
> >Director: Joss Whedon
> >
> <SNIP>
>
> Well, this has been fun. But now the overwhelming sadness. Sadness for
> what was and what will be. Nostalgia for that feeling of triumph upon
> leaving high school; nostalgia for the moment I first saw this episode
> 6 1/2 years ago. The best may be yet to come, certainly greatness
> still ahead at times, but this was the perfect ending, IMO. It's where
> the show was going from WttH. It's what the vision was.
>
> Buffy, grown, mature, a leader, capable of putting behind what was and
> face what will be, unafraid, and recognizing her place in the cosmos.
> Commanding with authority and respect. Graduated. A great closing
> shot, a terrific "up" moment to bring the curtain down.
I agree. I think it was the best season overall and would have made a
great stopping point for the series. I'm glad we got four more years but
if they'd ended it there, it would have worked for me.
BTR1701
<mair_fheal-43312...@sn-ip.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net>,
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
<mair_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > I broke my usual watch-then-review-immediately routine and watched
> > Buffy and Faith's final conversation three times, hoping to come up
> > with something wise to say about it. All I'll say is that it's
> > captivating: visuals, music, tone of dialogue, the whole deal. And it
> > has a cat in it, and cats make me happy. The line I think I'll
> > remember most is "scar tissue. It fades. It all fades." Faith
> > seems like she wouldn't mind a little fading, passing everything on
>
> and buffy kisses faith goodbye
> the anger and pain can fade away leaving their bond
Jryy, abg ernyyl. Jura Snvgu jnxrf hc, gurer'f fgvyy cyragl bs natre naq
cnva gb tb nebhaq.
chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu
> threads.
>
>
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Three, Episode 22: "Graduation Day (Part Two)"
> (or "School's out forever!")
> Writer: Joss Whedon
> Director: Joss Whedon
> Perhaps I was spoiled by Bec2, which not only delivered the action
> goods but tried to rip the viewer's heart out of his chest in the
> process. "Graduation Day," on the other hand, seems to have left a
> good portion of its emotional and character moments in Part I, allowing
> Part II to be a big action setpiece.
Although it doesn't have as much emotional impact as GD1, there's still
plenty of heart-ripping in GD2. The first two acts in particular are more
h-r than action. The difference in impact is that most of these h-r
moments just continue what we've already seen in the last two episodes,
instead of changing or resolving anything. Exceptions: the Buffy-Faith
dreamwalk, if that counts as h-r, and the Drink Me scene.
> Also of interest: note that despite being suicidally stupid and
> everything, Buffy ends up being right. Angel doesn't take all her
> blood, and it saves both of them.
It was darn close, though. The intensity of the blood-drinking comes not
only from its sexual overtones, but also from the way it brings out the
beast in Angel. (Which might itself be a sexual overtone?)
> There's a solid little bit where Angel has to deal with how much of
> the truth to tell Giles and the others. He seems like he's trying to
> be forthright, but not quite able to. No denials or hiding things in
> any case. Xander's "good to know that when the chips are down and
> things look grim you'll feed off the girl who loves you to save your
> own ass" makes sense under the circumstances, considering how things
> look from a Zeppo's-eye perspective.
And it's clear that Angel feels ashamed enough to almost agree with
Xander's point of view here. It may all turn out fine, it may have been
necessary, it may have been her choice, but he's still ashamed that he
drank Buffy's blood like any evil vampire. I like how Angel tries to stay
with Buffy, and Giles tells him to leave: "The sun will be up soon."
Angel's so ashamed, he doesn't feel he can insist on anything. He also
realizes it would just be foolish pride if he deliberately risked himself
to stay with Buffy after she just saved him at such great cost. And, of
course, the mention of sunrise is just throwing his vampiric nature back
into his face again. So he can't make any big gesture but has to retreat
with his head bowed.
> I broke my usual watch-then-review-immediately routine and watched
> Buffy and Faith's final conversation three times, hoping to come up
> with something wise to say about it. All I'll say is that it's
> captivating: visuals, music, tone of dialogue, the whole deal. And it
> has a cat in it, and cats make me happy.
We've seen surprisingly few cats so far. Has there been one since The
Witch? But at least Willow has a cat's head on her jacket in this
episode, and she had one on her shirt in Earshot.
I liked Faith's line at the end of the dreamwalk, when Buffy says she
can't use all this stuff and Faith replies "Just take what you need." In
the end Buffy doesn't have to choose between rejecting Faith or becoming
her.
> Of interest: Giles - "Buffy no longer needs a Watcher." Would
> you go that far?
Maybe he just means she's better served by an ex-Watcher.... More
seriously, he may be right that she doesn't need the Council's kind of
Watcher: ie, someone who's a useful source of training and information but
who thinks that this makes him the general and Buffy the private. But if
means that she no longer needs *any* guidance, I think he should guess
again.
> You know the kissing scene between Cordelia and Wesley? I was oddly
> detached there. I neither like nor dislike it, because I could see the
> humor there and intellectually say that it was kinda funny, but
> didn't so much as crack a smile.
The painfully awkward end made me feel for Wes. The bit at the beginning,
where he stands behind Cordelia and works up his courage, hesitates,
almost doesn't say anything at all -- that made me feel like he was my
blood brother.
> Much of what GD2 is missing in nuance, it makes up for in noise. The
> sight of the SHS class - jocks, geeks, cliques, and freaks - all
> coming together to fight for their future is suitably pulse-pounding.
I liked the sudden reveal of their weapons, I really liked the way the
vamps hesitated when they saw Angel's team facing them, and I LOVED it
when the vamps broke away and went to grab the kids, only to find the kids
charging them. Sunnydale students have suffered so much from the forces
of darkness, it was deeply satisfying to see them get to turn the tables.
> - "Oh my god! He's going to do the entire speech!" "Just
> ascend already!"
"Evil."
> - The Mayor's twitching transformation as he tries to bring his
> speech to a close
Before that, I liked how he and Buffy locked eyes as he says "There's been
loss. Some people who should be here today, aren't." Both clearly
thinking of Faith. The whole speech was a final example of the villainous
Mayor telling the heroes something that really feels right.
And okay, it's obvious, but I liked Buffy's line when she took out the
knife and taunted the Mayor-snake: "Do you want to get it back from me,
*Dick*?" I'm sure ME named the Mayor Richard with that line in mind.
> to anyone who'll listen. I've been led to believe that we're now
> at one of those big turning points at which the show Jumps The Shark
Bleah. That phrase long ago ... er, stopped being clever and started
being really irritating. That said, the meaning of "jumping the shark"
seems to have changed. Didn't it originally mean the point when a show
hit bottom and resorted to stupid spectacles, like Fonzie's shark-jumping,
to keep viewers? Nowadays it usually seems to mean the point when a show
*starts* to go downhill, probably because there's always someone lusting
to be the first person to declare shark-jumpage. We've experienced severe
shark inflation over the past few years.
> One-sentence summary: Good for a smile.
>
> AOQ rating: Good
I'd agree what GD1 was better than GD2, but IMO they both fall in the
Excellent range.
Thanks for doing these reviews, AOQ! I hope you keep it up through the
end of both Buffy and Angel.
--Chris
______________________________________________________________________
chrisg [at] gwu.edu On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog.
Don Sample
BTR1701 <BTR...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
It's politics. Never take the blame for anything that you can pin on
someone else. They got a lot of complaints from their citizens about
being woken up very early in the morning, so they pinned the blame on
the production company.
Don Sample
BTR1701 <BTR...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
Ohg Ohssl qbrf fgneg bhg ubcvat gung Snvgu zvtug unir punatrq. Fur'f
jvyyvat gb tvir Snvgu n frpbaq punapr.
One Bit Shy
news:1143922584.4...@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Perhaps I was spoiled by Bec2, which not only delivered the action
> goods but tried to rip the viewer's heart out of his chest in the
> process. "Graduation Day," on the other hand, seems to have left a
> good portion of its emotional and character moments in Part I, allowing
> Part II to be a big action setpiece. It basically comes down to big
> CGI monster appears, Buffy outsmarts it (and this isn't exactly a
> huge intellectual triumph), dead big monster.
I tend to think of it as a 3 parter. The first 35 minutes of GD1 was the
usual setup up to discovering they needed Faith's blood. From then until
Buffy kisses Faith's forhead is what I think of as completing the season
arc. At least the Faith part. After that, it switches to something else -
a conclusion for 3 seasons of high school. The middle part is fucking
brilliant to me. If that existed as an independent episode it would be
somewhere in the series top 5 for me. The last part isn't as brilliant, but
has a lot of satisfying elements. It's fitting for the end of BTVS high
school.
> The central conflict early on involves Angel, who's getting delirious
> and considering backing out of his pledge to leave Sunnydale, and the
> only remaining source for Slayer blood. A little too much melodrama
> for my tastes there, but there's enough real intensity too that it
> works okay. Now, actions often speak louder than speeches on this
> show, and later events tend to suggest that this was enough to make
> them re-realize the inevitability of separating. That aspect wasn't
> as strong for me, since it speaks more to the general problem of how
> obsessive Buffy can get with love. Of course maybe there'll never be
> anyone else who affects her the way Angel does, but it's hard to
> state that definitively at this point.
> Also of interest: note that despite being suicidally stupid and
> everything, Buffy ends up being right. Angel doesn't take all her
> blood, and it saves both of them.
There's another element - one last unresolved issue between Buffy and Angel.
Buffy killed Angel last year - sent him to hell. It's been part of the
background to their relationship all year. Amends helped make up for that,
but that was just words. Buffy *needs* to save Angel here. This is her
atonement - an obligation that brooks no compromise - and overshadows any
notion of suicidal or stupid.
> So Faith is Wilkins' big weakness. It's done effectively enough,
> despite the obviousness, mostly because Groener brings it when turning
> up the violent rage. His chuckling in later scenes after he calms down
> also seems more forced than ever.
For me, this episode is the absolute peak of his performance. He totally
sells the notion of Faith being daughter to him. His fear for her in the
opening scene really gets to me. His repeated assertion that she's going to
be alright is so real for the situation.
> I broke my usual watch-then-review-immediately routine and watched
> Buffy and Faith's final conversation three times, hoping to come up
> with something wise to say about it. All I'll say is that it's
> captivating: visuals, music, tone of dialogue, the whole deal. And it
> has a cat in it, and cats make me happy. The line I think I'll
> remember most is "scar tissue. It fades. It all fades." Faith
> seems like she wouldn't mind a little fading, passing everything on
> to her counterpart, for better or worse. There's a lot that's
> still a riddle to me here, but it's the kind of confusion that
> engenders fascination, not annoyance. Also strange is that the
> conversation is a bit of magic that isn't explained by anything
> introduced so far in the Buffyverse. We wonder stuff like "is this
> your head or mine?" but no one really seems to desire an answer
> beyond accepting the miracle. Will it all make sense eventually, or
> will we just leave it at that? I was expecting to have a clear answer
> by the end of GD2 on whether Faith would ever be back, but I still
> don't know - she seems unlikely to ever wake up, but then why not
> just outright kill her off? Of course that could be a way to eliminate
> her without having to write in a new Slayer. Rhetorical musing here,
> nothing you need answer.
I tend to think of it as another dream - shared. (And we do know about both
prophetic dreams and dream cross-overs from prior episodes.) Most things in
it are ambiguous - including whether Faith is really Faith or not. (Buffy
has in the past been very determined in believing she knew how Faith felt,
when it hasn't been clear that she really did.) I go with it really being
Faith myself. Maybe because I want her to be at least a little redeemed.
Aside from reaching a kind of peace with each other, Faith gave Buffy the
clue on how to defeat Wilkins - and clued Buffy to come back and take what
she needed - the knife.
> Speaking of eventual payoffs, forgot to mention it in the GD1 review,
> but we're really going to let that First Evil thing go for now, huh?
> Is Angel just kinda dealing with the psychosis? Maybe it'll follow
> him to the new show.
Anything's possible in the future. But I thought it had been settled for
the moment with the killing of the First's minions and the break-up of that
altar - or whatever it was they were using. I think they and it were in
some fashion the avenue the First took to Angel.
> Of interest: Giles - "Buffy no longer needs a Watcher." Would
> you go that far?
Good question. For one day, I guess not.
> You know the kissing scene between Cordelia and Wesley? I was oddly
> detached there. I neither like nor dislike it, because I could see the
> humor there and intellectually say that it was kinda funny, but
> didn't so much as crack a smile.
Makes you miss Cordy and Xander kissing doesn't it? heh-heh
> As I've mentioned a few times, I'm a fan of laconic or completely
> dialogue-free scenes where appropriate. Buffy and Angel's last
> meeting was predictable enough that it didn't do a huge deal for me,
> but how about their last conversation? Acknowledge the facts, and move
> on. Like I've said, taking it as a given that almost anything after
> "Becoming" would be a letdown, there's an inevitability here that
> makes sense. After florid speeches and killing and almost killing each
> other didn't work, the only way left for it can end is if they both
> choose to walk away.
For me it's thank heavens that's finally done. Why did it have to take that
long?
Actually, the device of having Angel in peril, needing slayer blood, I
thought was excellent. And I guess worth keeping Angel around all year.
> Much of what GD2 is missing in nuance, it makes up for in noise. The
> sight of the SHS class - jocks, geeks, cliques, and freaks - all
> coming together to fight for their future is suitably pulse-pounding.
> No new insights, but it makes sense after "Earshot" and "The
> Prom."
Of minor note is that this also shows that the award to Buffy in the Prom
served a plot advancing purpose. You needed that to be able to rationalize
here enlisting the other students in the battle.
> Untrained (or briefly-trained) kids showing that kind of
> precision targeting with the arrows is pretty ludicrous, but it's not
> a big enough problem to warrant much complaining.
Joss said that you gotta have flaming arrows. (He said the same thing about
the rocket launcher last year.)
> And amidst all this, we say goodbye to Principal Snyder as he's
> complaining about things getting too disorderly. Bye. As far as I'm
> concerned, despite promises to the contrary from the ATBVS community,
> you stayed an intermittanty-amusing caricature with the depth of a
> kiddie pool until the bitter end, and you won't be missed. Except
> that now I won't have the chance to use "hew-mons. All you care
> about is yourselves" as an alternate episode title; the opportunity
> just never presented itself. (I hadn't known that Shimerman's two
> highest-profile TV gigs ended so close together. He doesn't exactly
> seem to have been hurting for work since, though.)
I do like that he got eaten. Almost as fitting an end to high school as
blowing up the school.
> This Is Really Stupid But I Laughed Anyway moment(s):
Giles: Tea's soothing. I wish to be tense.
> Mrs. Q. predicted that the ME monster would wear a graduation cap. It
> made her night.
Go Mrs. Qaulity!
> So Season Three goes out with neither a substantial bang nor a whimper,
> but one of those fun little things hat you throw on the ground and it
> makes popping sounds. And that's it for _Buffy: The High School
> Years_. I'm glad I found this show. I think S3 was clearly the best
> year so far, and look forward to many years of loudly proclaiming that
> to anyone who'll listen. I've been led to believe that we're now
> at one of those big turning points at which the show Jumps The Shark
> and/or gets *really* good and/or remains the same show all things
> considered. I welcome you all to come along to see how well it can
> reinvent itself without the high school theme that's been so central
> to the series.
And thank you ever so much for your contributions. You really outdid
yourself with this season with some high quality reviews. I still can't get
over how you got me and so many people to think freshly about DMP. Whatever
lectures I may have thrown your way (I can't help it, it's the way I write),
you've been an immense aid in getting me to think through a fascinating
season.
As for jumping the shark. Yes. No. Maybe. Something completely
different. I don't think it's much of a spoiler to state the obvious that
S3 certainly does conclude an important period for the show - high school.
And since high school as a metaphor has been so much a part of the series to
date, obviously something has to change. How much that represents jumping
the shark depends on how strongly attached you prove to be to which elements
of the series. It's not predictable. I can say confidently that the
seasons to come continue to offer the same kind of fascination and
dedication to a large number of people that the first 3 do. Some of them
are even the same people. <g>
> AOQ Reviews return soon with double the potential Mutant Enemy pleasure
> and fun. I'm going to try to give you guys the traditional 5-7 days,
> so that those who don't have _Buffy_ S4 or _Angel_ S1 on hand (you
> know who you are) can consider rectifying the situation. But I don't
> know how long I'll be able to hold off on watching more, so hop to
> it. See you soon.
With some trepidation I'll be off to look for the Angel collection tomorrow.
Hopefully I'll find it.
And I won't be able to lecture about anything in Angel. <g>
> So...
> One-sentence summary: Good for a smile.
> AOQ rating: Good
Same for me.
chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu
>> And amidst all this, we say goodbye to Principal Snyder as he's
>> complaining about things getting too disorderly. Bye. As far as I'm
>> concerned, despite promises to the contrary from the ATBVS community,
>> you stayed an intermittanty-amusing caricature with the depth of a
>> kiddie pool until the bitter end, and you won't be missed. Except
>> that now I won't have the chance to use "hew-mons. All you care
>> about is yourselves" as an alternate episode title; the opportunity
>> just never presented itself. (I hadn't known that Shimerman's two
>> highest-profile TV gigs ended so close together. He doesn't exactly
>> seem to have been hurting for work since, though.)
>
> I do like that he got eaten. Almost as fitting an end to high school as
> blowing up the school.
And despite his firm line and refusal to touch and feel, in the end Snyder
met the same end as Principal Flutie.
One Bit Shy
news:1143922584.4...@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Gee, I forgot the saddest moment in the episode. Poor Harmony got bit. :-(
OBS
MBangel10 (Melissa)
>
> With some trepidation I'll be off to look for the Angel collection tomorrow.
> Hopefully I'll find it.
>
> And I won't be able to lecture about anything in Angel. <g>
>
>
>> So...
>
>> One-sentence summary: Good for a smile.
>
>> AOQ rating: Good
>
> Same for me.
>
>
>
about the sale the day after it ended. Ugh. I'm not nearly as big a fan
of Ats than I am of Buffy but I do remember some stand out episodes in
that series as well. Actually, there are about 15-20 episodes I've never
watched (to those who know the series, it wouldn't be tough to guess
what episodes I missed) but I did enjoy a majority of the show.
So, as of right now, I only own S5 of Ats.
I won't be able to comment too much about Ats either. As I've only
watched most episodes once, when they first aired.
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
> vamps hesitated when they saw Angel's team facing them, and I LOVED it
ive always wondered where angels team came from
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
hasbeghangryl gnxrf nabgure sbhe lrnef
jil...@hotmail.com
Angel lost his soul. She may not actually have been talking to Faith
in their minds, just like she wasn't actually talking to Angel, who
pointed out Jenny to her as a non-innocent in this little complication
her life had gained.
This kind of points to other theories I've considered. We've noticed
that Buffy's subconscious tends to be correct in all things, and when
she listens to her instincts she tends to be right. I do not think
saving Angel with her own blood was instinct, it was just love.
It's been a while, so I don't remember who used this quote at the end
of their posts, but the quote went about like this:
"The only thing Buffy fans agree on is that they don't like the current
season of Buffy."
As for this "jumping the shark" thing... ignore it. You will watch the
program and must make your decisions based upon your own preferences.
I never felt that they jumped the shark in the entire series. In fact,
their resistance to that was what made me proud. Joss never tried to
save the series by some silliness. He just kept writing as he pleased.
jil...@hotmail.com
Stephen Tempest wrote:
> Plus, one of the hottest (pseudo)-sex scenes ever shown on the show,
> from the moment Buffy seductively pulls aside her blouse to reveal her
> neck, to her orgasmic crushing of the metal cup-thingy...
I always take odds with this. I mean, SHEESH! I do not agree that
it's orgasmic. She's the friggin' Slayer. She's crushing the blasted
metal cup-thingy because if she doesn't, she's liable to stake Angel to
save herself.
That is MY opinion, I know it.
KenM47
THAT would be text. The orgasm would be sub-text.
I too felt the scene was highly charged sexually, but traditionally
the vampire attack was a sexual metaphor.
Ken (Brooklyn)
jil...@hotmail.com
chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu wrote:
> Bleah. That phrase long ago ... er, stopped being clever and started
> being really irritating. That said, the meaning of "jumping the shark"
> seems to have changed. Didn't it originally mean the point when a show
> hit bottom and resorted to stupid spectacles, like Fonzie's shark-jumping,
> to keep viewers? Nowadays it usually seems to mean the point when a show
> *starts* to go downhill, probably because there's always someone lusting
> to be the first person to declare shark-jumpage. We've experienced severe
> shark inflation over the past few years.
I've discovered that "Jumped the shark" now means "I hate that
character they introduced! The show has jumped the shark!" "They took
events that they started hinting at in Season 1 and made an episode
centered around those things! Damn show jumped the shark!"
Name it. "Oh, Buffy did that JUST like she did a season ago, as if
she's the same character in the same series! I didn't like it then and
I don't like it now! The show has jumped the shark!"
BTR1701
Sample <dsa...@synapse.net> wrote:
> In article <BTR1702-E97090...@news.east.earthlink.net>,
> BTR1701 <BTR...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> > In article <dsample-BE4166...@news.giganews.com>, Don
> > Sample <dsa...@synapse.net> wrote:
> >
> > > In article <rgst2219salv893o8...@4ax.com>,
> > > Stephen Tempest <steph...@stempest.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I have to say that the whole fight scene left me cold. I could see
> > > > they were wanting to go for the whole big-budget, epic battle feel,
> > > > but it had much less emotional impact than, say, the one-on-one B/F
> > > > fight.
> > >
> > > And we didn't get to see all of their big budget explosion. The WB
> > > was so hyper-sensitive after Columbine that they made Joss edit out some
> > > of it.
> > >
> > > Their explosion set of car alarms for a block around the Torrence
> > > High. The city of Torrence banned them for the next year.
> >
> > This is something I don't get. A production company doesn't get to set
> > off explosions like that without the local authorities being in the
> > loop right down to every detail from the get-go. The Torrance police, fire
> > department and the city council had to know ahead of time exactly what
> > was planned and what would happen.
> >
> > For them to turn around after the fact and act so surprised and
> > angry is ridiculous.
>
> It's politics. Never take the blame for anything that you can pin on
> someone else. They got a lot of complaints from their citizens about
> being woken up very early in the morning, so they pinned the blame on
> the production company.
Well, they tried to, anyway. The company could have easily just held up
all the permits signed by those very officials and dispelled that notion
rather quickly.
BTR1701
(Melissa)" <mban...@comcast.net> wrote:
> So, as of right now, I only own S5 of Ats.
That's too bad. With one exception (the episoide "You're Welcome")
season five was easily the show's weakest outing.
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
"jil...@hotmail.com" <jil...@hotmail.com> wrote:
my interpretation was her great disgust
at having this parasite attached to her and slurping out her life
with loud smacking souds
MBangel10 (Melissa)
I disagree
Arbitrar Of Quality
> However, the best episodes are yet to come... (IMHO).
And I'm sure Ken and Espen feel the same way.
-AOQ
Arbitrar Of Quality
> I liked Faith's line at the end of the dreamwalk, when Buffy says she
> can't use all this stuff and Faith replies "Just take what you need." In
> the end Buffy doesn't have to choose between rejecting Faith or becoming
> her.
I like that. It helps make some sense out fo that line, and seems like
the right way to conclude the S3 arc.
> That said, the meaning of "jumping the shark"
> seems to have changed. Didn't it originally mean the point when a show
> hit bottom and resorted to stupid spectacles, like Fonzie's shark-jumping,
> to keep viewers? Nowadays it usually seems to mean the point when a show
> *starts* to go downhill, probably because there's always someone lusting
> to be the first person to declare shark-jumpage.
As far as I'm concerned, the proper meaning refers to the end of a
downward spiral. The show may have been "starting to jump" or "warming
up" for awhile, or whatever, but the actual shark-jumping is the moment
in which the viewer realizes that the show he loved is truly dead, and
can never come back.
> We've experienced severe shark inflation over the past few years.
Heh.
-AOQ
Apteryx
news:xpadnb9SxIA70LLZ...@comcast.com...
Me too. For me its the best (and apart from one other season, it would be
the best by a very wide margin).
I'm assuming that simply stating a preference (or a dislike) for a season is
not a spoiler in an AoQ thread, but obviously we shouldn't go into details.
--
Apteryx
Arbitrar Of Quality
> > Also strange is that the
> > conversation is a bit of magic that isn't explained by anything
> > introduced so far in the Buffyverse. We wonder stuff like "is this
> > your head or mine?" but no one really seems to desire an answer
> > beyond accepting the miracle. Will it all make sense eventually, or
> > will we just leave it at that?
>
> I tend to think of it as another dream - shared. (And we do know about both
> prophetic dreams and dream cross-overs from prior episodes.) Most things in
> it are ambiguous - including whether Faith is really Faith or not. (Buffy
> has in the past been very determined in believing she knew how Faith felt,
> when it hasn't been clear that she really did.) I go with it really being
> Faith myself. Maybe because I want her to be at least a little redeemed.
> Aside from reaching a kind of peace with each other, Faith gave Buffy the
> clue on how to defeat Wilkins - and clued Buffy to come back and take what
> she needed - the knife.
Hadn't even considered that it might all be in Buffy's mind, just
because that's a lot less interesting. I guess the shared dream ideas
isn't so unheard of, but in the past it's always been one dreamer and
one passenger. It's never been between two Slayers before, though,
so...
> > Speaking of eventual payoffs, forgot to mention it in the GD1 review,
> > but we're really going to let that First Evil thing go for now, huh?
> > Is Angel just kinda dealing with the psychosis? Maybe it'll follow
> > him to the new show.
>
> Anything's possible in the future. But I thought it had been settled for
> the moment with the killing of the First's minions and the break-up of that
> altar - or whatever it was they were using. I think they and it were in
> some fashion the avenue the First took to Angel.
To me, the end of "Amends" and the brief reference to it in
"Gingerbread" (I think) suggested that they weren't going to leave
Angel alone anytime soon, and it was just a matter of how well he could
cope and function.
> > You know the kissing scene between Cordelia and Wesley?
>
> Makes you miss Cordy and Xander kissing doesn't it? heh-heh
NO.
> > And amidst all this, we say goodbye to Principal Snyder as he's
> > complaining about things getting too disorderly.
>
> I do like that he got eaten.
And that, as someone else (forget who) pointed out, he got eaten alive
like Flutie in the end.
> And thank you ever so much for your contributions. You really outdid
> yourself with this season with some high quality reviews. I still can't get
> over how you got me and so many people to think freshly about DMP. Whatever
> lectures I may have thrown your way (I can't help it, it's the way I write),
> you've been an immense aid in getting me to think through a fascinating
> season.
Just doing my job. Amidst all the verbosity, you're not exactly a
slouch in the helping-people-think-things-through department.
-AOQ
Apteryx
news:122uaap...@news.supernews.com...
> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1143922584.4...@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
Gung'f n ernfbanoyr vagrecergngvba bs jung vf frra ng cerfrag, ohg vg unf
gur qvssvphygl gung jura Snvgu qbrf erpbire, fur qbrfa'g frrz vagrerfgrq va
urycvat Ohssl. V guvax sebz n cbfg Guvf Lrnef Tvey crefrcpgvir, vg nccrnef
gb or whfg Ohssl qbvat gur qernzvat. Ure fhopbafpvbhf cebivqrf gur pyhr, naq
fur nggevohgrf vg gb Snvgu orpnhfr fur jnagf erpbapvyvngvba jvgu Snvgu.
Gur bayl erny ceboyrzf sbe gur fbyr qernzre gurbel ner nyfb ceboyrzf sbe gur
qhny qernz gurbel. Gurer vf gur fcyvg-frpbaq vzntr bs Snvgu ylvat ba gur
orq, frrzvat gb or jrnevat gur ubfcvgny fzbpx, juvpu Ohssl unf abg unq gur
punapr gb frr (ohg abe unf Snvgu). Naq gurer vf gur pyhr bs "pbhagvat qbja
sebz frira guerr bu", juvpu, vs vg vf n ersrerapr gb Ohssl'f qrngu va Gur
Tvsg vf pyrneyl orlbaq Ohssl'f xabjyrqtr (ohg nyfb orlbaq Snvgu'f).
Ohssl znl vaqrrq or orvat thvqrq ol n Uvture Cbjre urer - rira vs vg'f bayl
Wbff Jurqba :)
--
Apteryx
Arbitrar Of Quality
> >Perhaps I was spoiled by Bec2, which not only delivered the action
> >goods but tried to rip the viewer's heart out of his chest in the
> >process.
>
> Has Becoming 2 grown on you? IIRC you only rated it as "Good" at the time.
Since a few people have asked... this actually isn't about the quality
of the episodes per se. I was just observing that the end of Bec2
isn't just an action showpiece, it's also an attempt to tug on the
heartstrings and yank them out and such, so I was wondering whether
Joss would try to top that. Whereas the end of GD2 has an element of
catharsis, but it's basically a big ol' honking action showpiece.
GD2 wasn't filled with clunker scenes and emotional manipulation like
Bec2, but it also didn't have anything approaching the power of the
Buffy/Angel[+/-us] scenes from Bec2. They're both "Good" episodes.
-AOQ
One Bit Shy
"Apteryx" <apt...@extra.co.nz> wrote in message
news:m5KXf.10221$JZ1.3...@news.xtra.co.nz...
V'ir orra gelvat gb cerfrag vqrnf onfrq ba jung lbh pna frr ng guvf cbvag va
gvzr. Gubhtu boivbhfyl vg trgf qvprl fbzrgvzrf. V gevrq gb rzcunfvmr gur
nzovthvgl naq vapyhqr n ernfba jul jr zvtug guvax Ohssl vzntvarq vg ba ure
bja. Ohg, senaxyl, onfrq ba guvf nybar, vg'f uneq abg gb oryvrir Snvgu vf
gurer. Be ng yrnfg bar bs gur cebcurgvp barf gung hfrf bgure crbcyr.
(Znlor vg *vf* n uvture cbjre jbexvat jvgu n inevngvba bs gur Svefg'f
zrgubqf.)
Naq vg'f fb zhpu orggre sbe gur srry bs guvf rcvfbqr sbe Ohssl gb raq hc n
yvggyr ng crnpr jvgu jung unccrarq gb Snvgu.
Va nal pnfr, jung unccraf va F4 srryf yvxr n gbhpu bs ergpba. Vg'f orggre
qenzn gb unir ure jnxr hc onq. Vg'f orra n juvyr fvapr V jngpurq gung -
fbzrguvat gb ybbx sbejneq gb - fb V qba'g erzrzore rknpgyl ubj gur zrzbel
sebz gur Znlbe jnf vzcynagrq. Ohg pbhyq gung or gnxra nf n pbeehcgvat
vasyhrapr va vgf bja evtug gung haqrezvarq jung unccrarq urer? Snvgu qbrf
frrz qbbzrq gb orvat pbasyvpgrq.
OBS
Ian Galbraith
[snip]
> GD2 wasn't filled with clunker scenes and emotional manipulation like
> Bec2, but it also didn't have anything approaching the power of the
> Buffy/Angel[+/-us] scenes from Bec2. They're both "Good" episodes.
I disagree with you on Becoming 2 but I agree here, the lack of emotional
power really holds this episode back.
--
You Can't Stop The Signal
hopelessly devoted
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Perhaps I was spoiled by Bec2, which not only delivered the action
> goods but tried to rip the viewer's heart out of his chest in the
> process. "Graduation Day," on the other hand, seems to have left a
> good portion of its emotional and character moments in Part I, allowing
> Part II to be a big action setpiece. It basically comes down to big
> CGI monster appears, Buffy outsmarts it (and this isn't exactly a
> huge intellectual triumph), dead big monster.
Something about GD2 has always felt like the 2nd season finale to me.
Much in the same way that I consider the secondary story of S3 to be
the Mayor. To me, it will always be the Season of Faith. The more
prominent and interesting of the stories. GD1 was the actual season
finale, IMO and GD2 tied up the secondary storyline. The Mayor, Angel,
High School. But that's just me.
> The central conflict early on involves Angel, who's getting delirious
> and considering backing out of his pledge to leave Sunnydale, and the
> only remaining source for Slayer blood. A little too much melodrama
> for my tastes there, but there's enough real intensity too that it
> works okay. Now, actions often speak louder than speeches on this
> show, and later events tend to suggest that this was enough to make
> them re-realize the inevitability of separating. That aspect wasn't
> as strong for me, since it speaks more to the general problem of how
> obsessive Buffy can get with love. Of course maybe there'll never be
> anyone else who affects her the way Angel does, but it's hard to
> state that definitively at this point.
>
> Also of interest: note that despite being suicidally stupid and
> everything, Buffy ends up being right. Angel doesn't take all her
> blood, and it saves both of them.
As you mention Amends later, I will include it here. Angel said
something that comes into play here. The First, like Ampata, Ted, and
so many others, here one day and gone the next, serve to drop a bit of
info.
In A's case: "Look, I'm weak. I've never been anything else. It's not
the demon in me that needs killing, Buffy. It's the man."
Angel didn't lose his soul. Angelus did not magically appear when B
knocked him a few times. It was still Angel. With the demon still
inside. The soul does not remove the demon. The payoff for Amends is
here, looking at the true Angel. Man, Demon and all. In the end,
along with the Mayor's tauntings, and Joyce's warning, it is that face
that tore them both apart. Buffy will always be able to sacrifice
herself for Angel, but can Angel do the same?
As some have already argued here, erotic or not erotic. I vote: Yeah!
Probably the most erotic thing BTVS had ever done to date.
> So Faith is Wilkins' big weakness. It's done effectively enough,
> despite the obviousness, mostly because Groener brings it when turning
> up the violent rage. His chuckling in later scenes after he calms down
> also seems more forced than ever.
Another Oner? Nice one camera shot: In the door, in the room, out of
the room, to the phone, in the room, to faith , to the mayor, to
Buffy's room and then BLAM!
To watch the look on his face change from "Maybe it's B" to "Redrum".
Brilliant.
> There's a solid little bit where Angel has to deal with how much of
> the truth to tell Giles and the others. He seems like he's trying to
> be forthright, but not quite able to. No denials or hiding things in
> any case. Xander's "good to know that when the chips are down and
> things look grim you'll feed off the girl who loves you to save your
> own ass" makes sense under the circumstances, considering how things
> look from a Zeppo's-eye perspective.
X hit the nail on the head and you can clearly see it resonates in A.
> I broke my usual watch-then-review-immediately routine and watched
> Buffy and Faith's final conversation three times, hoping to come up
> with something wise to say about it. All I'll say is that it's
> captivating: visuals, music, tone of dialogue, the whole deal. And it
> has a cat in it, and cats make me happy. The line I think I'll
> remember most is "scar tissue. It fades. It all fades." Faith
> seems like she wouldn't mind a little fading, passing everything on
> to her counterpart, for better or worse. There's a lot that's
> still a riddle to me here, but it's the kind of confusion that
> engenders fascination, not annoyance.
Don't think about it too hard. You'll never figure it out on your own.
And the answers will come soon enough.
Also strange is that the
> conversation is a bit of magic that isn't explained by anything
> introduced so far in the Buffyverse. We wonder stuff like "is this
> your head or mine?" but no one really seems to desire an answer
> beyond accepting the miracle. Will it all make sense eventually, or
> will we just leave it at that? I was expecting to have a clear answer
> by the end of GD2 on whether Faith would ever be back, but I still
> don't know - she seems unlikely to ever wake up, but then why not
> just outright kill her off? Of course that could be a way to eliminate
> her without having to write in a new Slayer. Rhetorical musing here,
> nothing you need answer.
The simple kiss always said so much about their relationship. It was
never Faith that she hated. For B (and I think for F as well) it was
not a matter of hate at all. It was just a matter of conflict. The
kiss did not settle or forgive. It was merely understanding that F,
all in all, is still a part of B. And B will always be a part of
Faith. Beautiful moment.
One thing about the scene that's always leaves me questioning is, what
did B take. Faith: Take what you need.
I could be wrong, but the final confrontation seems to be it, as far as
I can tell.
Buffy: "Hey! You remember this? I took it from Faith. Stuck it in
her gut. Just slid in her like she was butter." You want to get it
back from me Dick?"
Always sounded more F than B to me. ???
> Speaking of eventual payoffs, forgot to mention it in the GD1 review,
> but we're really going to let that First Evil thing go for now, huh?
> Is Angel just kinda dealing with the psychosis? Maybe it'll follow
> him to the new show.
"Look, I'm weak. I've never been anything else. It's not the demon in
me that needs killing, Buffy. It's the man."
> Of interest: Giles - "Buffy no longer needs a Watcher." Would
> you go that far?
>
> You know the kissing scene between Cordelia and Wesley? I was oddly
> detached there. I neither like nor dislike it, because I could see the
> humor there and intellectually say that it was kinda funny, but
> didn't so much as crack a smile.
Not so much now, but on first viewing LMAO!
> As I've mentioned a few times, I'm a fan of laconic or completely
> dialogue-free scenes where appropriate. Buffy and Angel's last
> meeting was predictable enough that it didn't do a huge deal for me,
> but how about their last conversation? Acknowledge the facts, and move
> on. Like I've said, taking it as a given that almost anything after
> "Becoming" would be a letdown, there's an inevitability here that
> makes sense. After florid speeches and killing and almost killing each
> other didn't work, the only way left for it can end is if they both
> choose to walk away.
>
> Much of what GD2 is missing in nuance, it makes up for in noise. The
> sight of the SHS class - jocks, geeks, cliques, and freaks - all
> coming together to fight for their future is suitably pulse-pounding.
> No new insights, but it makes sense after "Earshot" and "The
> Prom." Untrained (or briefly-trained) kids showing that kind of
> precision targeting with the arrows is pretty ludicrous, but it's not
> a big enough problem to warrant much complaining. Nor is the
> unfunniness of Wesley's contribution. I think this is Cordelia's
> first time staking a vamp (I'm not counting "Anne"). Also, after
> all the time Angel's been "weak," it's good to see him tearing
> through a mass of enemies.
We waited months to find out why it was pulled. Columbine shootings
and all. Angry as hell and all. This was why. Agreed and disagreed.
Understandable yet still a real piss off. Amazing with all the
planning and preparation, I still was not prepared for the end. I kept
away from all SPOILERS before I even knew what they were so the end
came as a huge surprise.
OFV - watching as all of the parents immediately bolted while all the
students stayed right up to CUT TO BLACK. I spent all of the
commercial asking Why didn't they Get the F out of there? RUN DAMMIT
RUN. The derobing was a real stand up and cheer moment. Music and
All. Not only is B not alone, she's calling in a few favors. The
appearance of Angel behind the retreating Vampires. Stand up and cheer
again. Get the kids!!!! Stand up and cheer again. Two season finales
in one season. WhooHooo!!!!!
> And amidst all this, we say goodbye to Principal Snyder as he's
> complaining about things getting too disorderly. Bye. As far as I'm
> concerned, despite promises to the contrary from the ATBVS community,
> you stayed an intermittanty-amusing caricature with the depth of a
> kiddie pool until the bitter end, and you won't be missed. Except
> that now I won't have the chance to use "hew-mons. All you care
> about is yourselves" as an alternate episode title; the opportunity
> just never presented itself. (I hadn't known that Shimerman's two
> highest-profile TV gigs ended so close together. He doesn't exactly
> seem to have been hurting for work since, though.)
Poor nasty little horrid, bigoted rodent-man
Also, goodbye to Larry and Harmony.
*Sob*, *sigh*
> This Is Really Stupid But I Laughed Anyway moment(s):
Cordelia: "I demand an explanation."
Xander: "For what?"
Cordelia: "Wesley."
Xander: "Uh - inbreeding?"
Willow: "Faith told you? Was that before or after you put her into a
coma?"
Buffy: "After."
Willow: "Oh."
> And as a final note, as obvious and dumb as it is, if you're the
> writer of the show, is there any possible way that you don't end the
> high school stories with the Slaypack blowing up the school? It's the
> only ending there could be. Would that the rest of us had that option.
>
> Mrs. Q. predicted that the ME monster would wear a graduation cap. It
> made her night.
Any many more.
> So Season Three goes out with neither a substantial bang nor a whimper,
> but one of those fun little things hat you throw on the ground and it
> makes popping sounds. And that's it for _Buffy: The High School
> Years_. I'm glad I found this show. I think S3 was clearly the best
> year so far, and look forward to many years of loudly proclaiming that
> to anyone who'll listen. I've been led to believe that we're now
> at one of those big turning points at which the show Jumps The Shark
> and/or gets *really* good and/or remains the same show all things
> considered. I welcome you all to come along to see how well it can
> reinvent itself without the high school theme that's been so central
> to the series.
Like everything else about tv, you are exactly right. In the following
seasons the show Jumps The Shark and/or gets *really* good and/or
remains the same show all things considered.
Like always, Enjoy the ride!
will be waiting.
:->
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
> > detached there. I neither like nor dislike it, because I could see the
> > humor there and intellectually say that it was kinda funny, but
> > didn't so much as crack a smile.
>
> Not so much now, but on first viewing LMAO!
it was the big romantic moment they were building up to
ever siunce wesley arroved
when the background muysic wells up
instead
then they try again
like xander shaking the cross to get it to work
Ian Galbraith
[snip]
> Like everything else about tv, you are exactly right. In the following
> seasons the show Jumps The Shark and/or gets *really* good and/or
> remains the same show all things considered.
> Like always, Enjoy the ride!
> will be waiting.
Qbrf nalobql ernyyl oryvrir vg erznvaf gur fnzr? V ybir gur yngre frnfbaf
whfg nf zhpu nf gur rneyvre frnfbaf, vs abg zber fb, ohg gur fubj qvq
punatr znexrqyl.
Vgf vagrerfgvat erivfvgvat F3, VZUB vg qbrfa'g dhvgr ubyq hc nf jryy nf V
hfrq gb guvax. Vg qbrfa'g unir nf arneyl nf znal uvtu cbvagf nf F5 gb 7,
naq znlor abg rira nf znal nf F4. V'ir nyjnlf npxabjyrqtrq vg nf gur zbfg
pbafvfgrag frnfba ohg V'z guvaxvat abj vgf pbafvfgrag ng n ybjre yriry guna
V hfrq gb guvax. Pbzcner TQ2 gb Pubfra, nethnoyl gur 2 ovt gevhzcunag
svanyrf jvgubhg n ybg bs rzbgvbany znavchyngvba. Pubfra fuvgf nyy bire TQ2
va gurzngvp naq zrgngrkghny pbzcyrkvgl
Stephen Tempest
>Va nal pnfr, jung unccraf va F4 srryf yvxr n gbhpu bs ergpba. Vg'f orggre
>qenzn gb unir ure jnxr hc onq.
Qvfnterr. Va ure pbzn, fur'f fgvyy pbasyvpgrq. Bar zvahgr fur naq
Ohssl ner znxvat gur orq gbtrgure (naq jung n tvsg sbe
fynfusvp-jevgref naq ivqqref *gung* fprar vf), gur arkg fur'f univat
avtugznerf nobhg Ohssl xvyyvat ure. Va snpg, nyy guebhtu gur qernzf
vg'f Ohssl npgvat rivy naq fvavfgre, juvyr Snvgu'f whfg gelvat gb znxr
n unccl yvsr sbe urefrys.
Naq jura fur njnxraf, jung ernyyl gheaf Snvgu ntnvafg Ohssl? Gur snpg
gung fur gevrq gb xvyy Snvgu gb fnir Natry, ohg abj fur'f nccneragyl
sbetbggra nyy nobhg Natry naq vf "pyvzovat nyy bire ure arj obl-gbl,
naq abg tvivat n fvatyr gubhtug gb gur crbcyr jub znggre." Vg'f uneq
gb xabj fbzrbar gevrq gb xvyy lbh bire fbzrguvat gurl ab ybatre rira
pner nobhg...
Stephen
vague disclaimer
Ian Galbraith <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> On 2 Apr 2006 00:26:41 -0800, hopelessly devoted wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> > Like everything else about tv, you are exactly right. In the following
> > seasons the show Jumps The Shark and/or gets *really* good and/or
> > remains the same show all things considered.
>
> > Like always, Enjoy the ride!
>
> > will be waiting.
>
> Qbrf nalobql ernyyl oryvrir vg erznvaf gur fnzr? V ybir gur yngre frnfbaf
> whfg nf zhpu nf gur rneyvre frnfbaf, vs abg zber fb, ohg gur fubj qvq
> punatr znexrqyl.
V znl or jebat, ohg V guvax gur "vg fgnlf gur fnzr" nethzrag vf zber
gung gur punenpgref erznva erpbtavfnoyl gur fnzr (va pbagenfg gb gur
pynvzf gung gur punenpgref orunir bhg bs punenpgre).
> Vgf vagrerfgvat erivfvgvat F3, VZUB vg qbrfa'g dhvgr ubyq hc nf jryy nf V
> hfrq gb guvax. Vg qbrfa'g unir nf arneyl nf znal uvtu cbvagf nf F5 gb 7,
> naq znlor abg rira nf znal nf F4. V'ir nyjnlf npxabjyrqtrq vg nf gur zbfg
> pbafvfgrag frnfba ohg V'z guvaxvat abj vgf pbafvfgrag ng n ybjre yriry guna
> V hfrq gb guvax. Pbzcner TQ2 gb Pubfra, nethnoyl gur 2 ovt gevhzcunag
> svanyrf jvgubhg n ybg bs rzbgvbany znavchyngvba. Pubfra fuvgf nyy bire TQ2
> va gurzngvp naq zrgngrkghny pbzcyrkvgl
V'q zber bs yrff nterr jvgu gung, nygubhtu V guvax Svir jnf gur nofbyhgr
cvaanpyr sbe gurzngvp pbafvfgrapl naq dhnyvgl.
--
A vague disclaimer is nobody's friend
BTR1701
"hopelessly devoted" <cry...@cinstall.com> wrote:
> Poor nasty little horrid, bigoted rodent-man
> Also, goodbye to Larry and Harmony.
Gung'f nyzbfg na vairefr fcbvyre- gryyvat gur thl jr'er fnlvat tbbqolr
gb Unezbal jura fur'f fgvyy n znwbe punenpgre ba obgu fubjf. Vg yrnqf
uvz gb oryvrir fbzrguvat gung'f abg gehr.
BTR1701
<O...@nomail.sorry> wrote:
> Va nal pnfr, jung unccraf va F4 srryf yvxr n gbhpu bs ergpba. Vg'f
> orggre qenzn gb unir ure jnxr hc onq. Vg'f orra n juvyr fvapr V jngpurq gung -
> fbzrguvat gb ybbx sbejneq gb - fb V qba'g erzrzore rknpgyl ubj gur zrzbel
> sebz gur Znlbe jnf vzcynagrq.
Jung zrzbel jnf vzcynagrq? Gur bayl zrffntr fur tbg sebz gur znlbe jnf n
ivqrbgncr qryvirerq gb ure ol n qrzba.
KenM47
"Pubfra fuvgf" Well, that's something I can agree with.
Ken (Brooklyn)
KenM47
Well ........
I think no further comment on this right now would be appropriate.
Ken (Brooklyn)
KenM47
V guvax gurer vf n fcrpvny obaq orgjrra gur Fynlref uvtuyvtugrq ol
GLT/JNL gung vf gbgnyyl pbafvfgrag jvgu guvf qernz va TQ2.
Ken (Brooklyn)
Mel
Frnfba svir jbhyq unir orra orggre vs gurl unqa'g orra ehfurq ng gur raq
qhr gb gur fubj'f pnapryyngvba.
Sbe zr, frnfba sbhe vf zl yrnfg snibevgr, ohg gung vf zbfgyl orpnhfr V
fnj gur ragver frnfba bhg bs beqre. Vg cebonoyl jbhyq unir jbexrq n ybg
orggre bgurejvfr.
Yrg zr thrff, lbh qba'g yvxr frnfba svir orpnhfr Fcvxr vf va vg?
Mel
MBangel10 (Melissa)
Gur snpg gung guvf fubj gnxrf evfxf, (v.r. frnfba 6) ohg fgnlf jvguva
cresrpg pbagvahvgl bs gur rneyvre frnfbaf vf jung znxrf zr ybir gur fubj
fb zhpu. Ng gur raq bs F3, jr'ir nyernql pnhtug n tyvzcfr bs ubj Jvyybj
ortvaf gb eryl ba zntvp gb znxr ure yvsr rnfvre; Jr pngpu n tyvzcfr bs
ubj Ohssl'f eryngvbafuvcf jvgu abezny thlf arire jbex bhg, rgp...
V qba'g haqrefgnaq ubj fbzr crbcyr (nsgre ivrjvat gur ragver frevrf)
fgvyy pnaabg frr gung nyy bs vg jnf znccrq bhg va sebag bs gurz gur
ragver gvzr. V rawbl (nf n jubyr) frnfbaf sbhe-frira zber fb guna gur
uvtu fpubby lrnef. V jvyy tvir F3 gur cebcf vg qrfreirf sbe zbfg
pbafvfgragyl tbbq rcvfbqrf, ohg va pbzcnevfba gb yngre frnfbaf, vg
qbrfa'g fgnaq bhg fb zhpu.
VZUB, frnfbaf svir-fvk bhg qb frnfbaf gjb-guerr nf n jubyr, ol sne.
hopelessly devoted
V jvyy unir gb nterr jvgu lbh gurer. V ybir gur Snvgu Nep, ohg orvat
noyr gb npghnyyl "fghql" rnpu rc naq rnpu frnfba, gur orfg vf lrg gb
pbzr.
hopelessly devoted
V xabj. Vfa'g vg sha. Ba svefg ivrjvatf. V qvq unir gb fnl tbbq olr
jvgu n frevbhf Nuuuuu!
chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu
>
> Vgf vagrerfgvat erivfvgvat F3, VZUB vg qbrfa'g dhvgr ubyq hc nf jryy nf V
> hfrq gb guvax. Vg qbrfa'g unir nf arneyl nf znal uvtu cbvagf nf F5 gb 7,
> naq znlor abg rira nf znal nf F4. V'ir nyjnlf npxabjyrqtrq vg nf gur zbfg
> pbafvfgrag frnfba ohg V'z guvaxvat abj vgf pbafvfgrag ng n ybjre yriry guna
> V hfrq gb guvax.
V'ir abgvprq fbzrguvat: gur bqq-ahzorerq frnfbaf bs OgIF ner gur zbfg
pbafvfgrag va dhnyvgl, juvyr gur rira-ahzorerq frnfbaf unir gur zbfg
qenfgvp inevngvba va dhnyvgl. Vg'f yvxr n ynj bs angher be fbzrguvat.
--Chris
______________________________________________________________________
chrisg [at] gwu.edu On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog.
chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu
>
> Ohssl znl vaqrrq or orvat thvqrq ol n Uvture Cbjre urer - rira vs vg'f bayl
> Wbff Jurqba :)
Url, jung bgure uvture cbjre qb jr arrq?
eli...@gmail.com
much and looking forward to what seeing what you think of the rest of
the show - especially since I have no idea which way you'll go (F.ex.
my two favourite episodes of S3 are 'Lovers Walk' and 'Band Candy'...
that's not to say that I don't *adore* the Faith story line and The
Mayor, but episode-wise those two would be at the top).
Anyway, I know for certain that if Buffy had stopped after S3 I would
have liked the show (and probably enjoyed catching re-runs etc) by not
loved it the way I do - with a deep abiding passion (my husband would
say obsessive I'm afraid) that nothing else is _ever_ going to match!
I hope you keep enjoying! :)
Mel
One Bit Shy wrote:
Vg jnfa'g n zrzbel vzcynag. Vg jnf ivqrb gncr. Naq n cerfrag.
Mel
One Bit Shy
news:BTR1702-013F57...@news.east.earthlink.net...
Gung'f vg. V whfg pbhyqa'g erzrzore ubj vg unccrarq.
One Bit Shy
news:E_OdnYe6WZC...@uci.net...
Nabgure vyyhfgengvba bs gur inyhr bs erjngpuvat. V xarj fur tbg n zrffntr
sebz uvz, ohg V pbhyqa'g erzrzore ubj.
KenM47
Nf lbh erjngpu Frnfba 4, abgr ubj gurl erterff Ohssl. Nyy gur tebjvat
hc naq znghevgl qvfnccrnef gb or erqbar. Guvf erterffvba naq gura
erqbvat tbrf ba naq ba. Gur jbefg gung pbzrf gb zvaq vf gur fbnc bcren
qrgragr jvgu Qnja va Frnfba 5 bayl gb unir gb tb guebhtu vg nyy ntnva
va Frnfba 6.
Gura nyfb jngpu ubj rirel znva punenpgre jr pnerq nobhg hagvy abj vf
qrfgeblrq naq znqr arneyl qrfcvpnoyr (gehr, ab bar ohg Qnssl Qhpx
fubhyq hfr gung jbeq, ohg V qvterff).
Gurer ner terng zbzragf nurnq, juvpu qrpyvar gb, VZB, abar be arneyl
fb va fvk naq frira.
Ken (Brooklyn)
MBangel10 (Melissa)
> "MBangel10 (Melissa)" <mban...@comcast.net> wrote:
<snip>
>
>
> Nf lbh erjngpu Frnfba 4, abgr ubj gurl erterff Ohssl. Nyy gur tebjvat
> hc naq znghevgl qvfnccrnef gb or erqbar. Guvf erterffvba naq gura
> erqbvat tbrf ba naq ba. Gur jbefg gung pbzrf gb zvaq vf gur fbnc bcren
> qrgragr jvgu Qnja va Frnfba 5 bayl gb unir gb tb guebhtu vg nyy ntnva
> va Frnfba 6.
>
> Gura nyfb jngpu ubj rirel znva punenpgre jr pnerq nobhg hagvy abj vf
> qrfgeblrq naq znqr arneyl qrfcvpnoyr (gehr, ab bar ohg Qnssl Qhpx
> fubhyq hfr gung jbeq, ohg V qvterff).
>
> Gurer ner terng zbzragf nurnq, juvpu qrpyvar gb, VZB, abar be arneyl
> fb va fvk naq frira.
>
> Ken (Brooklyn)
V xabj jr jvyy arire svaq n pbzzba tebhaq ba guvf... ohg V qvfnterr
pbzcyrgryl. Ubjrire, lbh nyernql xabj gung fb V jba'g tb vagb vg ntnva.
Crefbanyyl, V pna'g jnvg gb er-jngpu 4-7 naq nf znal gvzrf nf V'ir
jngpurq gurz naq jvyy jngpu gurz, V'z arire tbvat gb frr gur fnzr guvat
nf lbh. Jr vagrecerg gur yngre frnfbaf pbzcyrgryl qvssreragyl, naq V
qba'g sberfrr gung rire punatvat.
KenM47
V'z fher gung'f gehr. V pna unat va sbe sbhe naq svir, ohg jvyy arire
frr fvk naq frira nf jbegu gur gvzr jngpuvat. Nz V phevbhf ubj NBD
frrf gurz? Lrf.
Lbh whfg va nabgure cbfg qvfphffrq ubj vzcerffrq lbh jrer jvgu Fcvxr'f
wbhearl, rira zber vagrerfgvat gb lbh guna Ohssl'f. Ohg gur fubj jnf
pnyyrq "Ohssl gur Inzcver Fynlre," abg "Fcvxr, gur Inzcver Jub Fbzrqnl
Trgf Uvf Fbhy Onpx." Vs lbh ner pbeerpg (naq crefbanyyl fvapr V unir
yvggyr hfr sbe NAL bs gur punenpgref wbhearlf va fvk naq frira V pna'g
pbzzrag ba juvpu wbhearl vf orggre), gura fbzrbar sbetbg gur zvffvba
fgngrzrag va gur HCA lrnef.
Bu, naq OGJ, V arire sbhaq QO nyy gung tbbq ybbxvat, be nyy gung tbbq
na npgbe (avpr zbzragf). Sbe n fubeg thl WZ trarenyyl nccrnerq orggre
ybbxvat gb zr, naq n zhpu orggre npgbe. Vg'f gur jevgvat gung snvyrq
zr, gur ynpx bs ivfvba.
Ken (Brooklyn)
One Bit Shy
news:vs00325sdp7946q05...@4ax.com...
Erterffvba naq erqbvat nerag'g gur grezf V jbhyq hfr gb qrfpevor jung vf
qbar jvgu Ohssl, ohg jungrire jbeqf ner pubfra, yrg zr tragyl cbvag bhg gung
gur fnzr xvaq bs guvat jnf qbar va F2 naq F3 nf jryy. Rira F1, bapr lbh
znxr fbzr nffhzcgvbaf nobhg gur onpx fgbel. Gur cngu bs ureb vf uneq gb
sbyybj. Ohssl serdhragyl ybfrf ure jnl naq zhfg onpxgenpx gb svaq vg narj.
Gung'f bar bs gur pbafgnagf va gur frevrf.
OBS
BTR1701
<melb...@uci.net> wrote:
> BTR1701 wrote:
> > In article <YJqdnUBos6gWsLLZ...@comcast.com>, "MBangel10
> > (Melissa)" <mban...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >>So, as of right now, I only own S5 of Ats.
> > That's too bad. With one exception (the episoide "You're Welcome")
> > season five was easily the show's weakest outing.
> Season five would have been better if they hadn't been rushed at the end
> due to the show's cancellation.
> Yrg zr thrff, lbh qba'g yvxr frnfba svir orpnhfr Fcvxr vf va vg?
Gurl cerggl zhpu ybfg zr jura gurl qvq guerr guvatf, nal bar bs juvpu
jnf onq rabhtu ohg jura pbzovarq gbtrgure whfg znqr gur fubj n funqbja
bs jung vg bapr jnf.
(1) Xvyyrq bss Pbeqryvn. (Lrf, V xabj fur jnfa'g grpuavpnyyl qrnq ng
svefg ohg fur jnf tbar sebz gur fubj fb sbe nyy vagragf fur zvtug nf
jryy unir orra qrnq.)
(2) Nonaqbarq gur ubgry naq Natry Vairfgvtngvbaf va snibe bs gurz
ehaavat gurve rarzl'f fgebatubyq. Gung jnf fhpu n uhtr JGS? zbzrag sbe
zr gung zl rawblzrag bs gur fubj arire ernyyl erpbirerq. Vg punatrq gur
ragver srry bs gur fubj naq abg va n tbbq jnl.
(3) Gur jbefg guvat bs nyy. Fcvxr. Arire fubhyq unir orra ba gur fubj.
Uvf cerfrapr jnf fb pyrneyl pbagevirq gb nccrny gb gur fjbbavat srznyr
qrzbtencuvp gung frireny crbcyr V xabj unq n cbby gb frr ubj znal
rcvfbqrf vg jbhyq gnxr orsber ur raqrq hc fuvegyrff. Abg gb zragvba, uvf
fhqqra ernccrnenapr ba NATRY cerggl zhpu purncrarq gur urebvp fnpevsvpr
ur znqr ng gur raq bs "Pubfra".
KenM47
V qba'g qvfnterr, OHG fur jnf n grrantre pbzat bs ntr naq yrnivat uvtu
fpubby oruvaq. Vg znqr frafr sbe ure gb unir gubfr grrantr frys
qbhogf. Gung'f jung gur ivfvba jnf.
VZB, vg znqr yvggyr frafr sbe hf gb trg gb Trareny Ohssl va TQ2, naq
gura onpx gb vafrpher Ohssl va F4. Jryy, n yvggyr, BX. Vg jnf n
fyvtugxyl arj raivebazrag. Ohg gura fur birepbzrf gung dhvpxyl va Gur
Serfuzna, naq eriregf rira jbefr va gur Cnexre eryngvbafuvc guvat. Naq
gung trgf jbefr va gur HCA lrnef jvgu Fcvxr.
Lrg nyy gur geninvyf bs 4 pna or sbetvira sbe n snveyl tbbq frnfba,
gur vafrphevgvrf nf oyvcf abg znwbe snvyvatf (naq fgvyy zl ivrj gung
gur nofbyhgr npzr bs gur fubj vf ernpurq va GLT/JNL). Rira 5 vf BX
orpnhfr gur fvghngvbaf (Qenphyn, cubal fvfgre, rivy Tbq) ner fb bqq
gung ner guebja ng bhe urebvar.
Gurer'f fgvyy ab rkphfr sbe gjb lrnef yngre (lrnu qvrq naq oebhtug
ionpx, ovt jubbc - gung'f n gnq ulcreobyr ba zl cneg) jung gurl qb gb
ure, be jung gurl qb gb Jvyybj, Knaqre, be Tvyrf - qrfgeblvat gurve
punenpgref gubebhtuyl.
Ken (Brooklyn)
KenM47
>In article <caudnVyNy-EYabLZ...@uci.net>, Mel
><melb...@uci.net> wrote:
>
>> BTR1701 wrote:
>> > In article <YJqdnUBos6gWsLLZ...@comcast.com>, "MBangel10
>> > (Melissa)" <mban...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
<SNIP>
>
>> Yrg zr thrff, lbh qba'g yvxr frnfba svir orpnhfr Fcvxr vf va vg?
>
>Gurl cerggl zhpu ybfg zr jura gurl qvq guerr guvatf, nal bar bs juvpu
>jnf onq rabhtu ohg jura pbzovarq gbtrgure whfg znqr gur fubj n funqbja
>bs jung vg bapr jnf.
>
>(1) Xvyyrq bss Pbeqryvn. (Lrf, V xabj fur jnfa'g grpuavpnyyl qrnq ng
>svefg ohg fur jnf tbar sebz gur fubj fb sbe nyy vagragf fur zvtug nf
>jryy unir orra qrnq.)
>
>(2) Nonaqbarq gur ubgry naq Natry Vairfgvtngvbaf va snibe bs gurz
>ehaavat gurve rarzl'f fgebatubyq. Gung jnf fhpu n uhtr JGS? zbzrag sbe
>zr gung zl rawblzrag bs gur fubj arire ernyyl erpbirerq. Vg punatrq gur
>ragver srry bs gur fubj naq abg va n tbbq jnl.
>
>(3) Gur jbefg guvat bs nyy. Fcvxr. Arire fubhyq unir orra ba gur fubj.
>Uvf cerfrapr jnf fb pyrneyl pbagevirq gb nccrny gb gur fjbbavat srznyr
>qrzbtencuvp gung frireny crbcyr V xabj unq n cbby gb frr ubj znal
>rcvfbqrf vg jbhyq gnxr orsber ur raqrq hc fuvegyrff. Abg gb zragvba, uvf
>fhqqra ernccrnenapr ba NATRY cerggl zhpu purncrarq gur urebvp fnpevsvpr
>ur znqr ng gur raq bs "Pubfra".
IAWTP
Ken (Brooklyn)
MBangel10 (Melissa)
Ab, V qba'g guvax gur fubj ybfg vgf zvffvba fgngrzrag. Jul? Orpnhfr V
jnf unccl jvgu Ohssl'f wbhearl nf jryy. Jura fur ybbxrq bhg ng gur
pengre gung jnf abj Fhaalqnyr naq fzvyrq. V fzvyrq gbb. Vg ernyyl jnf
ure fgbel, naq Fcvxr jnf gur pngnylfg sbe ure punenpgre va gur yngre
frnfbaf (yvxr Natry naq Snvgu jrer sbe gur rneyvre barf). Whfg orpnhfr V
sbhaq Fcvxr'f wbhearl zber vagevthvat, qbrfa'g gnxr njnl sebz uref ng nyy.
Vg'f yvxr fbzrbar fnlvat gung Snvgu vf gurve snibevgr punenpgre. Qbrf
gung zrna gurl znqr Snvgu zber vagrerfgvat guna Ohssl? Ab. Vg zrnaf gung
fbzrbar whfg sbhaq fbzrguvat va gung punenpgre gung gurl sbhaq zber
nccrnyvat. Npghnyyl, Snvgu naq Fcvxr unir n ybg bs cnenyyryf, naq obgu
ner fgbevrf bs erqrzcgvba va gurer bja jnl. V pna frr jul gurer ner fb
znal Snvgu snaf nf jryy.
Vg'f n funzr lbh jba'g or sbyybjvat nybat (jngpuvat) frnfbaf 6 naq 7
orpnhfr lbh ner abg tbvat gb unir gur bccbeghavgl gb rvgure, 1. Frr
fbzrguvat lbh zvffrq ba svefg ivrjvat gung pbhyq nssrpg lbhe bcvavba, be
2. Ervgrengr jul lbh qvfyvxr gubfr frnfbaf fb zhpu. (rknzcyr sbe ernfbaf
gb jngpu: Pbzcnevat gur qvnybt orgjrra Snvgu naq Ohssl va "Onq Tveyf"
naq gur qvnybt orgjrra Fcvxr naq Ohssl va "Qrnq Guvatf" vf vagrerfgvat,
naq vg tvirf inyvq ernfbaf sbe ure npgvat gur jnl fur qvq va ertneqf gb
Xngevan'f qrngu)
Sbe zr, nyy bs Ohssl jnf na rawblnoyr fgbel naq V ybirq vg nf zhpu
(npghnyyl zber fb) qhevat Frnfba 7 nf V qvq jvgu Frnfba 2. V xabj gurer
ner fbzr bhg gurer jub qb abg, ohg V'yy arire haqrefgnaq vg.
KenM47
I continue to envy your ability to see it that way.
V'yy cebonoyl or yhexvat gura. Znlor jngpuvat, ohg V'z tbaan gel gb
erfvfg pbzzragvat.
Whfg guvf gbr qvc ba ersvtugvat gubfr creprcgvbaf onggyrf tbrf n ybat
jnl. V qba'g jnag gur ntvgn.
So, done now.
Ken (Brooklyn)
MBangel10 (Melissa)
Thanks. I guess the reason I enjoy the later seasons so much is this:
Xrrc va zvaq gung ng frevrf raq, gurl jrer jung? 22?
V'z va zl rneyl 30'f naq V'ir tbg gb fnl gung V qvq fbzr cerggl fghcvq
guvatf va zl yngr grraf/rneyl 20'f. Fb qvq gurl. V pna eryngr. Gung vf
cebonoyl jul V qba'g frr Jvyybj'f snyy sebz tenpr (rira gubhtu jr nyy
fnj vg pbzvat) naq Knaqre'f syrr sebz gur nygre be Ohssl'f qrcerffvba nf
nalguvat bgure guna jung qbrf unccra gb n ybg bs xvqf ng gung ntr.
Knaqre jnfa'g arneyl nf ernql sbe n pbzzvgzrag nf ur gubhtug. Ur qvq
fbzrguvat veengvbany gb trg bhg bs vg. Ur tbg fpnerq. Fher, gur
fvghngvba jnf znqr zber pbzcryyvat jvgu vg orvat n zneevntr ohg p'zba,
rira V unir oebxra hc jvgu n thl naq qvq vg va n fghcvq, vzzngher jnl.
Jvyybj'f fgbel cnenyyryrq qeht hfr. V pna eryngr gb gung gbb. Ab, V
qvqa'g unir nal zntvp penpx zbzragf zlfrys ohg V jngpurq fbzr irel
vagryyvtrag sevraqf bs zvar trg pnhtug hc va vg. Vg jnf fnq, naq gentvp,
naq Jvyybj'f fgbel fubjrq gung.
Ohssl'f qrcerffvba. V'ir orra gurer. Qrcerffvba fhpxf. V'ir unq
eryngvbafuvcf sbe gur jebat ernfbaf. V tbg vg.
Nyy bs gurfr ner glcvpny naq abg fb sne bhg gurer gb gur nirentr
gjragl-fbzrguvat. Vg vfa'g erterffvba, vg'f tebjvat hc naq qrnyvat jvgu
guvatf. Vg'f yvsr.
Va F7, jr tbg gb frr gur punenpgref urny naq fgneg orpbzvat pybfr ntnva.
Sbe zr, gung jnf terng GI.
Ok. I'm done now too.
vague disclaimer
KenM47 <Ken...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> Nf lbh erjngpu Frnfba 4, abgr ubj gurl erterff Ohssl. Nyy gur tebjvat
> hc naq znghevgl qvfnccrnef gb or erqbar. Guvf erterffvba naq gura
> erqbvat tbrf ba naq ba.
V'ir frra fbzrobql pbzr pybfr gb n areibhf oernxqbja ba tbvat gb
pbyyrtr, nsgre orvat fhcerzryl pbasvqrag gbc-bs-gur-pynff zngrevny jura
ng fpubby. Zbivat sebz orvat n ovt svfu va n fznyy cbby gb orvat whfg
nabgure svfu pna enggyrq frys rfgrrz, be jbefr.
Jvyybj znqr n tbbq fgngrzrag bs gur qvssrerapr jvgu 'fchegl xabjyrqtr',
ohg Znttvr Jnyfu frg gur gbar: Falqre nffhzrq crbcyr jbhyq snvy - fur
qrznaqrq fhpprff. Gur fnzr zrgncube vf fgvyy gurer: whfg n yvggyr zber
tebja hc. Sbe gur arkg sbe lrnef gur fubj gnyxrq snfg, frg n ybg bs jbex
naq rkcrpgrq lbh gb xrrc hc.
V ybirq vg.
>Gur jbefg gung pbzrf gb zvaq vf gur fbnc bcren
> qrgragr jvgu Qnja va Frnfba 5 bayl gb unir gb tb guebhtu vg nyy ntnva
> va Frnfba 6.
Ntnva jvgu gur 'fbnc bcren'. Jung qbrf gung zrna?
> Gura nyfb jngpu ubj rirel znva punenpgre jr pnerq nobhg hagvy abj vf
> qrfgeblrq naq znqr arneyl qrfcvpnoyr
Lbh sbetbg "LZZI". V pnaabg guvax bs na bppnfvba jura nal pber-sbhe jnf
qrfcvpnoyr.
--
A vague disclaimer is nobody's friend
BTR1701
<Ken...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> "MBangel10 (Melissa)" <mban...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >KenM47 wrote:
> >> "MBangel10 (Melissa)" <mban...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >> Nf lbh erjngpu Frnfba 4, abgr ubj gurl erterff Ohssl. Nyy gur tebjvat
> >> hc naq znghevgl qvfnccrnef gb or erqbar. Guvf erterffvba naq gura
> >> erqbvat tbrf ba naq ba. Gur jbefg gung pbzrf gb zvaq vf gur fbnc bcren
> >> qrgragr jvgu Qnja va Frnfba 5 bayl gb unir gb tb guebhtu vg nyy ntnva
> >> va Frnfba 6.
> >>
> >> Gura nyfb jngpu ubj rirel znva punenpgre jr pnerq nobhg hagvy abj vf
> >> qrfgeblrq naq znqr arneyl qrfcvpnoyr (gehr, ab bar ohg Qnssl Qhpx
> >> fubhyq hfr gung jbeq, ohg V qvterff).
> >>
> >> Gurer ner terng zbzragf nurnq, juvpu qrpyvar gb, VZB, abar be arneyl
> >> fb va fvk naq frira.
> >V xabj jr jvyy arire svaq n pbzzba tebhaq ba guvf... ohg V qvfnterr
> >pbzcyrgryl. Ubjrire, lbh nyernql xabj gung fb V jba'g tb vagb vg ntnva.
> >Crefbanyyl, V pna'g jnvg gb er-jngpu 4-7 naq nf znal gvzrf nf V'ir
> >jngpurq gurz naq jvyy jngpu gurz, V'z arire tbvat gb frr gur fnzr guvat
> >nf lbh. Jr vagrecerg gur yngre frnfbaf pbzcyrgryl qvssreragyl, naq V
> >qba'g sberfrr gung rire punatvat.
>
>
> I'm sure that's true. I can hang in for four and five, but will never
> see six and seven as worth the time watching. Am I curious how AOQ
> sees them? Yes.
I didn't mind seven nearly as much as six. Orgjrra gur "nyy-Fcvxr, nyy
gur gvzr" frk-n-guba gb gur snagnfgvpnyyl ynzr pubvpr bs guerr ohzoyvat
areq-vqvbgf nf Ohssl'f znva arzrfvf sbe gur frnfba**, vg whfg oyrj. Sbe
gur svefg gvzr V sbhaq zlfrys jngpuvat zber bhg bs unovg guna
nagvpvcngvba gung lrne.
**Naq lrf, V xabj gung Jurqba pbafvqref Jvyybj gb unir orra Ohssl'f
znwbe arzrfvf gung frnfba ohg gung jubyr guvat qvqa'g rira pbzr nobhg
hagvy gur svany guerr rcvfbqrf. Gung'f yvxr 15% bs gur frnfba. Gur bgure
85% bs gur gvzr vg jnf gur Areq Gevb naq vxg jnf whfg onq, onq, onq.
KenM47
>In article <u72032huirnahvmjl...@4ax.com>, KenM47
><Ken...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>> "MBangel10 (Melissa)" <mban...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>> >KenM47 wrote:
>> >> "MBangel10 (Melissa)" <mban...@comcast.net> wrote:
<SNIP>
>. Orgjrra gur "nyy-Fcvxr, nyy
>gur gvzr" frk-n-guba gb gur snagnfgvpnyyl ynzr pubvpr bs guerr ohzoyvat
>areq-vqvbgf nf Ohssl'f znva arzrfvf sbe gur frnfba**, vg whfg oyrj. Sbe
>gur svefg gvzr V sbhaq zlfrys jngpuvat zber bhg bs unovg guna
>nagvpvcngvba gung lrne.
>
>**Naq lrf, V xabj gung Jurqba pbafvqref Jvyybj gb unir orra Ohssl'f
>znwbe arzrfvf gung frnfba ohg gung jubyr guvat qvqa'g rira pbzr nobhg
>hagvy gur svany guerr rcvfbqrf. Gung'f yvxr 15% bs gur frnfba. Gur bgure
>85% bs gur gvzr vg jnf gur Areq Gevb naq vxg jnf whfg onq, onq, onq.
BTR, please be a little more careful. Not much point in my or anyone
bothering to ROT13 if you decode and leave the decoded message in your
reply.
Ken (Brooklyn)
BTR1701
<Ken...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
I only encode spoiler stuff. You saying you didn't like the final two
seasons of the show hardly qualifies as a spoiler for anything. Unless,
of course, we're trying to protect him even from the knowledge that
there is a season 6 and season 7, in which case, one would think he'd
have to have at least that much spoiled in order for him to buy the
discs and watch them in the first place.
hopelessly devoted
Juvyr V haqrefgnaq gung, cneg bs gur ernfba gur fubj unf nyjnlf jbexrq
sbe zr, rfcrpvnyyl va gur yngre frnfbaf, vf orpnhfr gur punenpgref
punatr. Gra lrnef bs Sevraqf naq abg bar punenpgre qrirybcrq irel sne
sebz jura gur fubj svefg nverq. Guvf glcr bs punenpgre qrirybczrag vf
ener, va gryrivfvba naq va zbivrf, naq vf, ng yrnfg sbe zr, n jrypbzr
punatr gb gur "bu ybbx, zber bs gur fnzr". Unq gur fubj pbagvahrq
jvgubhg yrggvat gur punenpgref tebjvat vagb fbzrguvat ryfr, fbzrguvat
bgure, vg jbhyq unir tbggra obevat naq byq. Sbe zr, vg'f nyy nobhg gur
punenpgre qrirybczrag.
KenM47
>In article <7fc032p47dm744guh...@4ax.com>, KenM47
><Ken...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>> BTR1701 <BTR...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>
>> >In article <u72032huirnahvmjl...@4ax.com>, KenM47
>> ><Ken...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> "MBangel10 (Melissa)" <mban...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >KenM47 wrote:
>> >> >> "MBangel10 (Melissa)" <mban...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>> <SNIP>
>>
>> >. Orgjrra gur "nyy-Fcvxr, nyy
>> >gur gvzr" frk-n-guba gb gur snagnfgvpnyyl ynzr pubvpr bs guerr ohzoyvat
>> >areq-vqvbgf nf Ohssl'f znva arzrfvf sbe gur frnfba**, vg whfg oyrj. Sbe
>> >gur svefg gvzr V sbhaq zlfrys jngpuvat zber bhg bs unovg guna
>> >nagvpvcngvba gung lrne.
>> >
>> >**Naq lrf, V xabj gung Jurqba pbafvqref Jvyybj gb unir orra Ohssl'f
>> >znwbe arzrfvf gung frnfba ohg gung jubyr guvat qvqa'g rira pbzr nobhg
>> >hagvy gur svany guerr rcvfbqrf. Gung'f yvxr 15% bs gur frnfba. Gur bgure
>> >85% bs gur gvzr vg jnf gur Areq Gevb naq vxg jnf whfg onq, onq, onq.
>>
>>
>> BTR, please be a little more careful. Not much point in my or anyone
>> bothering to ROT13 if you decode and leave the decoded message in your
>> reply.
>
>I only encode spoiler stuff.
<SNIP>
It's a simple question of courtesy. I didn't ask you what you encoded.
I asked that if you find something encoded, then leave it as such.
Ken (Brooklyn)
MBangel10 (Melissa)
Npghnyyl, vs lbh jngpu pybfre... gur areq gevb ner bhe pbzrql eryvrs,
naq gur pngnylfg gb frg hc n srj fvghngvbaf, abguvat zber. Gur ERNY
frnfba 6 ovt onq jnf gurzfryirf. Gung jnf gur cbvag bs gur frnfba - gurl
jrer onggyvat gurve vaare qrzbaf.
Bs pbhefr, vs lbh qvqa'g znxr gung pbaarpgvba, naq ubarfgyl gubhtug gur
gevb jrer gur ovt onq bs gur frnfba, V pna frr jul lbh qvfyvxrq vg fb zhpu.
KenM47
Gura fbzrbar zvfcynprq gurve frafr bs uhzbe orpnhfr encr, nggrzcgrq be
bgurejvfr, naq zheqre bs uhznaf ol uhznaf, vagragvbany be guebhtu
jvyshy qvfertneq bs gur pbafrdhraprf bs bar'f npgvbaf, nva'g shaal naq
nva'g pbzrql. Abg va gur Ohsslirefr gurl'er abg.
Ken (Brooklyn)
MBangel10 (Melissa)
>> Npghnyyl, vs lbh jngpu pybfre... gur areq gevb ner bhe pbzrql eryvrs,
>> naq gur pngnylfg gb frg hc n srj fvghngvbaf, abguvat zber. Gur ERNY
>> frnfba 6 ovt onq jnf gurzfryirf. Gung jnf gur cbvag bs gur frnfba - gurl
>> jrer onggyvat gurve vaare qrzbaf.
>>
>> Bs pbhefr, vs lbh qvqa'g znxr gung pbaarpgvba, naq ubarfgyl gubhtug gur
>> gevb jrer gur ovt onq bs gur frnfba, V pna frr jul lbh qvfyvxrq vg fb zhpu.
>
>
> Gura fbzrbar zvfcynprq gurve frafr bs uhzbe orpnhfr encr, nggrzcgrq be
> bgurejvfr, naq zheqre bs uhznaf ol uhznaf, vagragvbany be guebhtu
> jvyshy qvfertneq bs gur pbafrdhraprf bs bar'f npgvbaf, nva'g shaal naq
> nva'g pbzrql. Abg va gur Ohsslirefr gurl'er abg.
>
>
> Ken (Brooklyn)
Gung jbhyq or gur pngnylfg cneg. Abg gur pbzrql cneg.
BTR1701
<Ken...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> It's a simple question of courtesy. I didn't ask you what you encoded.
I know you didn't. But that's what I told you nevertheless.
> I asked that if you find something encoded, then leave it as such.
I have to decode it to read it and re-encoding stuff on my newreader
takes several steps. I'm not gonna go to that trouble for something that
isn't a spoiler.
The purpose of encoding is to protect against spoilers, not to be
courteous for the sake of courtesy alone.
BTR1701
(Melissa)" <mban...@comcast.net> wrote:
> BTR1701 wrote:
> > V qvqa'g zvaq frira arneyl nf zhpu nf fvk. Orgjrra gur "nyy-Fcvxr, nyy
> > gur gvzr" frk-n-guba gb gur snagnfgvpnyyl ynzr pubvpr bs guerr ohzoyvat
> > areq-vqvbgf nf Ohssl'f znva arzrfvf sbe gur frnfba**, vg whfg oyrj. Sbe
> > gur svefg gvzr V sbhaq zlfrys jngpuvat zber bhg bs unovg guna
> > nagvpvcngvba gung lrne.
> >
> > **Naq lrf, V xabj gung Jurqba pbafvqref Jvyybj gb unir orra Ohssl'f
> > znwbe arzrfvf gung frnfba ohg gung jubyr guvat qvqa'g rira pbzr nobhg
> > hagvy gur svany guerr rcvfbqrf. Gung'f yvxr 15% bs gur frnfba. Gur
> > bgure 85% bs gur gvzr vg jnf gur Areq Gevb naq vg jnf whfg
> > onq, onq, onq.
>
> Npghnyyl, vs lbh jngpu pybfre... gur areq gevb ner bhe pbzrql eryvrs,
Jryy, gurl snvyrq zvfrenoyl ng gung, gbb. Naln jnf terng pbzrql eryvrs;
fb jnf Pbeqryvn. Naq rira Knaqre, gb n yrffre rkgrag, jnf shaal vs
fbzrjung ohssbbavfu. Ohg gubfr guerr jrer whfg tebna-jbegul qhzo. Abg
shaal ng nyy.
V zrna, pbzr ba. Naqerj fnlvat Inz-CLERF bire naq bire ntnva vf fhccbfrq
gb or pyrire? Oyrnu...
> naq gur pngnylfg gb frg hc n srj fvghngvbaf, abguvat zber. Gur ERNY
> frnfba 6 ovt onq jnf gurzfryirf. Gung jnf gur cbvag bs gur frnfba - gurl
> jrer onggyvat gurve vaare qrzbaf.
Jryy, vs V jnag gung, V'yy jngpu "Tvyzber Tveyf" be "Gur B.P." Gur
"Ohssl" fubj jnf nyy nobhg gur qrzbaf naq zbafgref orvat gur zrgncubef
sbe crbcyr'f vagreany pbasyvpgf. Ol znxvat gurz npghny vagreany
pbasyvpgf, Jurqba whfg ghearq gur fubj vagb nabgure oynaq cevzr-gvzr
fbnc bcren.
BTR1701
(Melissa)" <mban...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Gung jbhyq or gur pngnylfg cneg. Abg gur pbzrql cneg.
Jura vg pbzrf gb pbzrql, Frnfba 6 jnf ol sne gur zbfg orersg bs vg. Ab
bar jnf unccl, abguvat zhpu frrzrq shaal, rirelbar jnf qrcerffrq naq
zvfrenoyr. Tvyrf jnf tbar. Vg jnf yvxr fybttvat guebhtu zhq jrrx nsgre
jrrx.
Mel
BTR1701 wrote:
> In article <caudnVyNy-EYabLZ...@uci.net>, Mel
> <melb...@uci.net> wrote:
>
>
>>BTR1701 wrote:
>>
>>>In article <YJqdnUBos6gWsLLZ...@comcast.com>, "MBangel10
>>>(Melissa)" <mban...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>>>>So, as of right now, I only own S5 of Ats.
>
>
>>>That's too bad. With one exception (the episoide "You're Welcome")
>>>season five was easily the show's weakest outing.
>
>
>>Season five would have been better if they hadn't been rushed at the end
>>due to the show's cancellation.
>
>
>>Yrg zr thrff, lbh qba'g yvxr frnfba svir orpnhfr Fcvxr vf va vg?
>
>
> Gurl cerggl zhpu ybfg zr jura gurl qvq guerr guvatf, nal bar bs juvpu
> jnf onq rabhtu ohg jura pbzovarq gbtrgure whfg znqr gur fubj n funqbja
> bs jung vg bapr jnf.
>
> (1) Xvyyrq bss Pbeqryvn. (Lrf, V xabj fur jnfa'g grpuavpnyyl qrnq ng
> svefg ohg fur jnf tbar sebz gur fubj fb sbe nyy vagragf fur zvtug nf
> jryy unir orra qrnq.)
V qvqa'g ernyyl zvff ure. Sebz nobhg zvq-frnfba gjb, gur punenpgre
ernyyl ortna gb naabl zr. V arire obhtug vagb ure orvat gur zbeny
pbzcnff bs gur tebhc. V pbhyqa'g chg zl svatre ba rknpgyl jung vg jnf
gung veevgngrq zr fb zhpu, ohg bar bs gur rffnlf va gur obbx "Svir
Frnfbaf bs Natry" tnir vg cerggl tbbq gel: fur ybfg ure frafr bs uhzbe
naq ortna gb gnxr urefrys jnl gbb frevbhfyl.
>
> (2) Nonaqbarq gur ubgry naq Natry Vairfgvtngvbaf va snibe bs gurz
> ehaavat gurve rarzl'f fgebatubyq. Gung jnf fhpu n uhtr JGS? zbzrag sbe
> zr gung zl rawblzrag bs gur fubj arire ernyyl erpbirerq. Vg punatrq gur
> ragver srry bs gur fubj naq abg va n tbbq jnl.
Guvf qvqa'g obgure zr. Vg'f na vagrerfgvat punatr va crefcrpgvir naq
znqr nyy gur yvggyr onggyrf frrz gung zhpu zber vzcbegnag fvapr gurl
jrer ernyyl ynlvat gur tebhaqjbex sbe gur Ovt Ncbpnylcfr JE&U unq orra
jbexvat gbjneq fvapr jr'ir xabja gurz.
>
> (3) Gur jbefg guvat bs nyy. Fcvxr. Arire fubhyq unir orra ba gur fubj.
> Uvf cerfrapr jnf fb pyrneyl pbagevirq gb nccrny gb gur fjbbavat srznyr
> qrzbtencuvp gung frireny crbcyr V xabj unq n cbby gb frr ubj znal
> rcvfbqrf vg jbhyq gnxr orsber ur raqrq hc fuvegyrff. Abg gb zragvba, uvf
> fhqqra ernccrnenapr ba NATRY cerggl zhpu purncrarq gur urebvp fnpevsvpr
> ur znqr ng gur raq bs "Pubfra".
Guvf nyfb qvqa'g obgure zr. Va snpg, gur punenpgre uvzfrys zragvbarq
guvf irel "purncarff" naq jnf obgurerq ol vg. Ohg gurer jnf fgvyy ebbz
sbe gur punenpgre gb tebj, naq ur qvq.
Mel
Eric Hunter
> news:1143922584.4...@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> threads.
>
> The sight of the SHS class - jocks, geeks, cliques,
> and freaks - all coming together to fight for their
> future is suitably pulse-pounding. No new insights,
> but it makes sense after "Earshot" and "The Prom."
> Untrained (or briefly-trained) kids showing that
> kind of precision targeting with the arrows is pretty
> ludicrous, but it's not a big enough problem to
> warrant much complaining.
We had the option to take Archery one quarter in
gym class. Perhaps SHS did, too, and those were
the kids who took it and did well.
Eric.
--
BTR1701
wrote:
Gur rcvfbqr V zragvbarq nobir ("Lbh'er Jrypbzr") jnf jung ernyyl oebhtug
ubzr gb zr ubj vagrteny fur unq orra gb gur fubj. V arire gubhtug fur
jnf gur zbeny pbzcnff ohg fur jnf qrsvavgryl gur urneg naq fbhy bs gur
fubj. Sbe bar ubhe V unq gur byq NATRY onpx. Gura fur qvrq naq vg jnf
tbar sbe tbbq.
chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu
>
> Gura nyfb jngpu ubj rirel znva punenpgre jr pnerq nobhg hagvy abj vf
> qrfgeblrq naq znqr arneyl qrfcvpnoyr (gehr, ab bar ohg Qnssl Qhpx
> fubhyq hfr gung jbeq, ohg V qvterff).
V arire gubhtug nal bs gur znva punenpgref jrer qrfgeblrq be orpnzr
qrfcvpnoyr. Fbzrgvzrf sehfgengvat, bppnfvbanyyl cvgvnoyr, ohg arire
qrfcvpnoyr naq nyjnlf erpbtavmnoyl gurzfryirf.
Just putting my two cents in,
Chris
______________________________________________________________________
chrisg [at] gwu.edu On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog.
KenM47
>KenM47 <Ken...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>
>> Gura nyfb jngpu ubj rirel znva punenpgre jr pnerq nobhg hagvy abj vf
>> qrfgeblrq naq znqr arneyl qrfcvpnoyr (gehr, ab bar ohg Qnssl Qhpx
>> fubhyq hfr gung jbeq, ohg V qvterff).
>
>V arire gubhtug nal bs gur znva punenpgref jrer qrfgeblrq be orpnzr
>qrfcvpnoyr. Fbzrgvzrf sehfgengvat, bppnfvbanyyl cvgvnoyr, ohg arire
>qrfcvpnoyr naq nyjnlf erpbtavmnoyl gurzfryirf.
>
>Just putting my two cents in,
>
>Chris
>
>
Liked your other post re "Fcvxr"
As for this one:
What I meant was the whole business with
1. Tvyrf - nonaqbvavat Ohssl ng gur fghcvqrfg gvzr sbe gur fghcvqrfg
zbgvingvbaf, VZB, ergheavat nf Fhcre Tvyrf gb gnxr ba Jvyybj, snvyvat
naq znxvat vg jbefr, unatvat nebhaq nf fbzr qba'g gbhpu zr wrex naq
gura nyy gur fghcvqvgl jvgu Ebova Jbbq - V thrff lbh frr ubj rira
guvaxvat nobhg guvf fghss znxrf zr tb fbzrjung oenva qrnq.
2. Jvyybj naq gur zntvp penpx. Qvqa'g ohl vg. Fbeel. Naq gur
sbetrggvat fcryy vf n ovt qrny jura gurl'er nyy zvaq shpxrq ol gur
zbaxf?
3. Knaqre. V pna ohl gur frpbaq gubhtugf ba gur ybat grez pbzzvgzrag.
V pna'g ohl gur "qrfcvpnoyr" jnl ur gengrq Naln ol jnyxvat bhg naq
yrnivat ure gb snpr gur uhzvyvngvba bs gur nobegrq jrqqvat nybar, naq
gura ergheavat n jrrx yngre sbe gur jurre'f Naln zl sevraq jvgu
cevivyrtrf. Naq ntnva zrffvat jvgu zntvp naq trggvat vaabpragf xvyyrq
jvgu b pbafrdhraprf gb Knaqre.
4. Ohssl. Gur Fcvxr guvat. Gur qrfcvpnoyr jnl fur gerngrq gur fbpvny
jbexre gelvat gb qb ure wbo. Gur Fcvxr guvat. Gur Abezny Ntnva guvat
naq vgf ergpba. Gur Fcvxr guvat.
5. Fcvxr - V nterr rabhtu jvgu lbhe bgure cbfg abg gb ercrng gung
urer.
6. Qnja. Fubhyq unir orra tbar jvgu Gur Tvsg. Nsgre gung, ovt tvey
erterffrq gb 12 lrne byq va gur nggragvba jnagvat, gur xyrcgb penc,
rgp.
That's off the top of my head.
Ken (Brooklyn)
chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu
V guvax lbh'er nyy znxvat n zvfgnxr vs lbh cvtrba-ubyr gur Gevb nf
ivyynvaf, pbzvp eryvrs be pngnylfgf. Gurl jrer pyrneyl nyy guerr ng
qvssrerag gvzrf. Gurl fgnegrq bss nf pbzvp eryvrs, tenqhnyyl qrirybcrq
vagb gehr ivyynvaf, naq pngnylmrq gur perngvba bs n frpbaq naq zber
vzcbegnag ivyynva, Qnex Jvyybj. (Naq bs pbhefr gur punenpgref' vaare
qrzbaf jrer gur gehr Ovt Onq bs gur frnfba, rgp. rgp.)
Crefbanyyl, V yvxr gur Gevb *orpnhfr* bs gurve wbhearl sebz uhzbebhf
pbzvp-obbx rivy gb gur erny guvat. VZUB pbafvqrevat gurz fgevpgyl nf
pbzvp eryvrs be nf ivyynvaf zvffrf gur zbfg vzcbegnag cneg.
--Chris
ps: If this part of the discussion continues, maybe it should move to a
new thread?
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu wrote:
> V guvax lbh'er nyy znxvat n zvfgnxr vs lbh cvtrba-ubyr gur Gevb nf
> ivyynvaf, pbzvp eryvrs be pngnylfgf. Gurl jrer pyrneyl nyy guerr ng
> qvssrerag gvzrf. Gurl fgnegrq bss nf pbzvp eryvrs, tenqhnyyl qrirybcrq
> vagb gehr ivyynvaf, naq pngnylmrq gur perngvba bs n frpbaq naq zber
> vzcbegnag ivyynva, Qnex Jvyybj. (Naq bs pbhefr gur punenpgref' vaare
> qrzbaf jrer gur gehr Ovt Onq bs gur frnfba, rgp. rgp.)
>
> Crefbanyyl, V yvxr gur Gevb *orpnhfr* bs gurve wbhearl sebz uhzbebhf
> pbzvp-obbx rivy gb gur erny guvat. VZUB pbafvqrevat gurz fgevpgyl nf
> pbzvp eryvrs be nf ivyynvaf zvffrf gur zbfg vzcbegnag cneg.
>
> --Chris
>
> ps: If this part of the discussion continues, maybe it should move to a
> new thread?
v xrrc bcravat cbegnyf gb clyrn
arf meow arf - nsa fodder
al qaeda terrorism nuclear bomb iran taliban big brother
if you meet buddha on the usenet killfile him
Bruce
> chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu wrote:
>
> >KenM47 <Ken...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Gura nyfb jngpu ubj rirel znva punenpgre jr pnerq nobhg hagvy abj vf
> >> qrfgeblrq naq znqr arneyl qrfcvpnoyr (gehr, ab bar ohg Qnssl Qhpx
> >> fubhyq hfr gung jbeq, ohg V qvterff).
> >
> >V arire gubhtug nal bs gur znva punenpgref jrer qrfgeblrq be orpnzr
> >qrfcvpnoyr. Fbzrgvzrf sehfgengvat, bppnfvbanyyl cvgvnoyr, ohg arire
> >qrfcvpnoyr naq nyjnlf erpbtavmnoyl gurzfryirf.
> >
> >Just putting my two cents in,
> >
> >Chris
> >
> >
>
> Liked your other post re "Fcvxr"
>
> As for this one:
>
> What I meant was the whole business with
>
> 1. Tvyrf - nonaqbvavat Ohssl ng gur fghcvqrfg gvzr sbe gur fghcvqrfg
> zbgvingvbaf, VZB, ergheavat nf Fhcre Tvyrf gb gnxr ba Jvyybj, snvyvat
> naq znxvat vg jbefr, unatvat nebhaq nf fbzr qba'g gbhpu zr wrex naq
> gura nyy gur fghcvqvgl jvgu Ebova Jbbq - V thrff lbh frr ubj rira
> guvaxvat nobhg guvf fghss znxrf zr tb fbzrjung oenva qrnq.
Er: Tvyrf. Vg'f fgbel rkgreany V xabj, ohg bapr NFU fnvq gung ur
qvqa'g jnag gb or ba gur fubj shyy gvzr, gurl unq gb jbex gung vagb gur
fgbelgryyvat. Guvf jbexrq jryy va F6, abg nf jryy va F7. Gur aba
gbhpuvat guvat jnf n ovg zhpu, ohg vg qvqa'g obgure zr.
Er: Ebova Jbbq. Abg zl snibhevgr punenpgre, ohg V qba'g frr nal znwbe
ceboyrzf jvgu uvz rvgure.
> 2. Jvyybj naq gur zntvp penpx. Qvqa'g ohl vg. Fbeel. Naq gur
> sbetrggvat fcryy vf n ovt qrny jura gurl'er nyy zvaq shpxrq ol gur
> zbaxf?
V nterr zntvp penpx vf n ceboyrz. Znvayl orpnhfr gurl frrzrq gb fb
noehcgyl punatr qverpgvba sebz gur bevtvany jnl gurl jrer tbvat. V
nyjnlf gubhtug gung gur birehfr bs zntvp nf n zrgncuber bs ubj cbjre
pbeehcgf jnf zhpu zber vagrerfgvat. BGBU, V nterr gung gur sbetrggvat
fcryy vf n ovt qrny orpnhfr vg jnf Jvyybj jub qvq vg. Ure orgenlny bs
rirelbar, rfcrpvnyyl Gnen, ol fbzrbar gurl xabj & ybir, abg fbzr
nababzlbhf zbaxf jnf gur vffhr.
> 3. Knaqre. V pna ohl gur frpbaq gubhtugf ba gur ybat grez pbzzvgzrag.
> V pna'g ohl gur "qrfcvpnoyr" jnl ur gengrq Naln ol jnyxvat bhg naq
> yrnivat ure gb snpr gur uhzvyvngvba bs gur nobegrq jrqqvat nybar, naq
> gura ergheavat n jrrx yngre sbe gur jurre'f Naln zl sevraq jvgu
> cevivyrtrf. Naq ntnva zrffvat jvgu zntvp naq trggvat vaabpragf xvyyrq
> jvgu b pbafrdhraprf gb Knaqre.
Ur jnf jebat, ohg V qvqa'g qrfcvfr Knaqre sbe jung ur qvq gb Naln. Ur
qvq trg bss gbb rnfvyl sbe uvf funer bs erfcbafvovygl sbe gur qrnguf va
BZJS gubhtu.
> 4. Ohssl. Gur Fcvxr guvat. Gur qrfcvpnoyr jnl fur gerngrq gur fbpvny
> jbexre gelvat gb qb ure wbo. Gur Fcvxr guvat. Gur Abezny Ntnva guvat
> naq vgf ergpba. Gur Fcvxr guvat.
Va gur pbagrkg bs Ohssl'f nep va F6, vg jbexrq whfg svar sbe zr. Nf
zber guna bar pbzzragnel V ernq ng gur gvzr fgngrq vg jnf nyfb cerggl
zhpu hacerprqragrq gung n argjbex GI fubj jbhyq ernyyl rknzvar fhpu n
qnex naq "haurnygul" eryngvbafuvc. Lbh rvgure pna tb jvgu ubj fubj vf
sybjvat be lbh pna'g. Gur fbpvny jbexre jnfa'g shaal gb zr, ohg V yrg
vg cnff. Abezny Ntnva vf qvssrerag gubhtu. Gurve'f ab jnl V pna
oryvrir gung Ohssl jnf pbzzvggrq orsber gur frevrf fgnegrq. Ntnva
gubhtu, bapr V tbg cnfg gung, V rawblrq gur ergpba naljnl. {;-)
> 5. Fcvxr - V nterr rabhtu jvgu lbhe bgure cbfg abg gb ercrng gung
> urer.
>
> 6. Qnja. Fubhyq unir orra tbar jvgu Gur Tvsg. Nsgre gung, ovt tvey
> erterffrq gb 12 lrne byq va gur nggragvba jnagvat, gur xyrcgb penc,
> rgp.
Fur'f sne sebz zl snibhevgr punenpgre, ohg fur'f jrnevat zr qbja ba
rnpu fhpprffvir erjngpuvat. Gur xrl ceboyrz ,fb gb fcrnx, vf gung gurl
qvqa'g xabj jung gb qb jvgu ure nsgre Gur Tvsg.
> That's off the top of my head.
>
> Ken (Brooklyn)
Bruce.
William George Ferguson
wrote:
>A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
>threads.
>
>
>BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
>Season Three, Episode 22: "Graduation Day (Part Two)"
>(or "School's out forever!")
>Writer: Joss Whedon
>Director: Joss Whedon
Okay, while I'm trying to figure a way to ROT-13 the entire remaining
thread (rather than having to do it post by post), I'll hit a few things
that haven't been talked about, at least in plain text, as far as I've
seen, I haven't ROT-13d all the ROT-13 posts (de-ROT-13ing is, of course,
just ROT-13ing).
People have mentioned the Hummus offense, but nobody has mentioned the
Ebola offense, which is a classic (or, we could just get a box and label
it 'ebola').
Wesley gets a neat line when he offers to stay, so at least he can be
there if Buffy needs someone to scream like a girl.
We spent the entire summer (plus) chewing the Buffy/Faith dialogue to
bits. (since you replayed it, you know the cat is Faith, they do flash
cuts between it and Faith in the hospital bed when Buffy is looking at it,
a lot of people didn't pick up that it was Faith in the flash cuts
originally)
Larry Lives (that was sort of a rallyng cry for some of after this ep)
Strangely, there was absolutely no public outrage over the fact that they
took out the school with an Oklahoma City bomb (aka a fertilizer bomb). Of
course they didn't set it up correctly (and well they shouldn't on
primetime tv).
Someone mentioned wondering where Angel's group came from. They were
clearly the school jocks (I guess Larry outing himself had removed him
from the group). Percy, Willow's mentee (tutee?) was one of them.
The survivor montage (and I don't care that he wasn't in in, Larry Lives)
showing heroic Jonathan protecting the fallen Cordy.
Comatose Faith is the property of Anton Chekhov. Of course, sometimes
writers will deliberately violate Chekhov's law, just to establish that
the audience can't just predict the plot by the numbers (but if you're
going to play that game, you better be very good at what you're doing).
Oh, one last thing. Larry Lives.
Short list of things we no longer have to consciously exclude from our
posts:
I'm Buffy, the Vampire Slayer, and you are?
5x5
Fluking
PezWitch
Magic Snow
Beelzebub fill me with your dark naughty evil
Sometimes I'm callous and strange
I don't have to say 'Oh'.
YellowDogGeyserPerson
I'm eleven hundred and twenty, just give me the frickin' beer
I'm so skanky, and evil, and, I think I'm kinda gay.
Well, boo hoo. (It's way beyond too late.)
Sucks beyond the descrbing of it.
Slayer Comfort food
Class Protector
Seven Three Oh
Fire bad, tree pretty
and last
Well, gosh.
--
HERBERT
1996 - 1997
Beloved Mascot
Delightful Meal
He fed the Pack
A little
Opus the Penguin
> I have to say that the whole fight scene left me cold. I could see
> they were wanting to go for the whole big-budget, epic battle feel,
> but it had much less emotional impact than, say, the one-on-one B/F
> fight.
Leroy to that.
(Ooops. Wrong group. Brief explanation: A guy named Leroy is the first
person on record to make a Usenet post consisting entirely of the
sentence "Me too.")
--
Opus the Penguin
The best darn penguin in all of Usenet
Opus the Penguin
> There's another element - one last unresolved issue between Buffy
> and Angel. Buffy killed Angel last year - sent him to hell. It's
> been part of the background to their relationship all year.
> Amends helped make up for that, but that was just words. Buffy
> *needs* to save Angel here. This is her atonement - an obligation
> that brooks no compromise - and overshadows any notion of suicidal
> or stupid.
That is a penetrating observation. (er ... no pun intended.)
Opus the Penguin
> And despite his firm line and refusal to touch and feel, in the
> end Snyder met the same end as Principal Flutie.
But fittingly Snyder was devoured by the power above him. Flutie was
devoured by students. He had a connection to them that Snyder lacked.
Don Sample
William George Ferguson <wmgf...@newsguy.com> wrote:
> Larry Lives (that was sort of a rallyng cry for some of after this ep)
Yes, well some people live in perpetual denial.
"Hu, Nzl...guerr guvatf jr unir gb gnyx nobhg. Bar, Yneel'f
tnl, gjb, Yneel'f qrnq, naq guerr, uvtu fpubby'f...xvaqn bire."
"Ubj ybat jnf V va gur pntr?"
--
Quando omni flunkus moritati
Visit the Buffy Body Count at <http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/>
George W Harris
<wmgf...@newsguy.com> wrote:
:YellowDogGeyserPerson
I think that's Reliable Dog Geyser Person.
(checks) Yep, it is.
--
"I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar." -Wash, 'Serenity'
George W. Harris For actual email address, replace each 'u' with an 'i'
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
in season five spike and larry return
for a -very special- buffy the vampire slayer
vague disclaimer
> V guvax lbh'er nyy znxvat n zvfgnxr vs lbh cvtrba-ubyr gur Gevb nf
> ivyynvaf, pbzvp eryvrs be pngnylfgf. Gurl jrer pyrneyl nyy guerr ng
> qvssrerag gvzrf. Gurl fgnegrq bss nf pbzvp eryvrs, tenqhnyyl qrirybcrq
> vagb gehr ivyynvaf, naq pngnylmrq gur perngvba bs n frpbaq naq zber
> vzcbegnag ivyynva, Qnex Jvyybj. (Naq bs pbhefr gur punenpgref' vaare
> qrzbaf jrer gur gehr Ovt Onq bs gur frnfba, rgp. rgp.)
>
> Crefbanyyl, V yvxr gur Gevb *orpnhfr* bs gurve wbhearl sebz uhzbebhf
> pbzvp-obbx rivy gb gur erny guvat. VZUB pbafvqrevat gurz fgevpgyl nf
> pbzvp eryvrs be nf ivyynvaf zvffrf gur zbfg vzcbegnag cneg.
Lrf. Gung rira gubfr cynlvat ng rivy pna qb n gerzraqbhf nzbhag bs
qnzntr.
--
A vague disclaimer is nobody's friend
vague disclaimer
KenM47 <Ken...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu wrote:
>
> >KenM47 <Ken...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Gura nyfb jngpu ubj rirel znva punenpgre jr pnerq nobhg hagvy abj vf
> >> qrfgeblrq naq znqr arneyl qrfcvpnoyr (gehr, ab bar ohg Qnssl Qhpx
> >> fubhyq hfr gung jbeq, ohg V qvterff).
> >
> >V arire gubhtug nal bs gur znva punenpgref jrer qrfgeblrq be orpnzr
> >qrfcvpnoyr. Fbzrgvzrf sehfgengvat, bppnfvbanyyl cvgvnoyr, ohg arire
> >qrfcvpnoyr naq nyjnlf erpbtavmnoyl gurzfryirf.
> >
> >Just putting my two cents in,
> >
> >Chris
> >
> >
>
> Liked your other post re "Fcvxr"
>
> As for this one:
>
> Jung V zrnag jnf gur jubyr ohfvarff jvgu
>
> 1. Tvyrf - nonaqbvavat Ohssl ng gur fghcvqrfg gvzr sbe gur fghcvqrfg
> zbgvingvbaf, VZB, ergheavat nf Fhcre Tvyrf gb gnxr ba Jvyybj, snvyvat
> naq znxvat vg jbefr,.
"V'q yvxr gb grfg gung gurbel" jnf bar bs gur fubjf svarfg zbzragf. Na
bhg-naq-bhg chapu gur nve zbzrag.
> unatvat nebhaq nf fbzr qba'g gbhpu zr wrex naq
Naq bire cynlrq wbxr, lrf ohg ynetryl sbetvira sbe "Abj jnvg n zvahgr.
Lbh guvax V'z rivy... vs V oevat n tebhc bs tveyf ba n pnzcvat gevc naq
qba'g gbhpu gurz?"
> gura nyy gur fghcvqvgl jvgu Ebova Jbbq -
Uhu?
>V thrff lbh frr ubj rira
> guvaxvat nobhg guvf fghss znxrf zr tb fbzrjung oenva qrnq
Jryy sne or vg sbe zr gb chg jbeqf va lbhe zbhgu...
> 2. Jvyybj naq gur zntvp penpx. Qvqa'g ohl vg. Fbeel. Naq gur
> sbetrggvat fcryy vf n ovt qrny jura gurl'er nyy zvaq shpxrq ol gur
> zbaxf?
Vs V qvqa'g xabj orggre V'q fhfcrpg lbh jrer qryvorengryl ynlvat qbja
synzronvg ol vtabevat gur uvtuyl crefbany angher bs Jvyybj'f orgenlny.
Vs lbh pna'g frr gur qvssrerapr orgjrra jung fur qvq naq jung gur zbaxf
qvq, gur ceboyrz vf lbhef abg gur jevgref.
Yrggvat lbhe bja snaxjnax funcr na nethzrag qbrf ernyyl znxr vg
fhfgnvanoyr, qbrf vg?
> 3. Knaqre. V pna ohl gur frpbaq gubhtugf ba gur ybat grez pbzzvgzrag.
> V pna'g ohl gur "qrfcvpnoyr" jnl ur gengrq Naln ol jnyxvat bhg naq
> yrnivat ure gb snpr gur uhzvyvngvba bs gur nobegrq jrqqvat nybar, naq
> gura ergheavat n jrrx yngre sbe gur jurre'f Naln zl sevraq jvgu
> cevivyrtrf.
Naq vs gung jrer jurer gur fgbel raqrq, lbh zvtug unir n cbvag. Ohg vg
vfa'g, fb lbh qba'g.
> Naq ntnva zrffvat jvgu zntvp naq trggvat vaabpragf xvyyrq
> jvgu b pbafrdhraprf gb Knaqre.
Vg qbrfa'g bpphe gb lbh gung univat gur jrqqvat tb gvgf hc jnf xnezvp
erjneq? Guvatf qba'g nyjnlf unir gb or yvgreny.
> 4. Ohssl. Gur Fcvxr guvat.
N pbzcryyvat cbegenvg bs na nohfvir eryngvbafuvc va F6. N ovg gbb zhpu
pyhaxl cnaqrevat gb gur Fchssl fuvccref sbe zl gnfgr va F7.
> Gur qrfcvpnoyr jnl fur gerngrq gur fbpvny
> jbexre gelvat gb qb ure wbo.
Lrc, gung jnf zrna. Crefbanyyl, V'ir arire frra nalbar va gur guebjf bs
qrcerffvba naq vaibyirq va na nohfvir eryngvbafuvc qb nalguvat zrna. Bu,
ab.
> Gur Fcvxr guvat.
V'z ba gurPYVPXV'z ba gurPYVPXV'z ba gurPYVPX
> Gur Abezny Ntnva guvat
Gur snagnfgvp zrgn-pbzzragnel ba gur angher bs gur Ohsslirefr? Lbh'er
evtug. Gung jnf terng.
> naq vgf ergpba.
Bu gung. Lrnu, pyhaxl naq haarprffnel. Gbbx nobhg 5 frpbaqf bs fperra
gvzr.
> Gur Fcvxr guvat.
PYVPX
> 5. Fcvxr - V nterr rabhtu jvgu lbhe bgure cbfg abg gb ercrng gung
> urer.
>
> 6. Qnja. Fubhyq unir orra tbar jvgu Gur Tvsg.
Jul?
> Nsgre gung, ovt tvey
> erterffrq gb 12 lrne byq va gur nggragvba jnagvat, gur xyrcgb penc,
> rgp.
Lrc, 'pbf ab 15 lrne-byqf unir rire npgrq bhg. Bu ab.
jil...@hotmail.com
KenM47 wrote:
> "jil...@hotmail.com" <jil...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >That is MY opinion, I know it.
>
>
> THAT would be text. The orgasm would be sub-text.
>
> I too felt the scene was highly charged sexually, but traditionally
> the vampire attack was a sexual metaphor.
I read "Dracula". In that book the vampire attack was not a sexual
metaphor, except possibly for rape.
jil...@hotmail.com
the ending to you. I've heard that Whedon wrote each season as though
it was the ending, just in case.
And why wouldn't it seem like an ending? Buffy and her Scoobies arm a
bevy of high school kids and face up with them against a small army of
vampires and a giant demon!! If they fail, they all may die and usher
in a world ruled by evi - ... hmm. Gosh, why does this all sound so
familiar?
KenM47
>In article <viv032hic7f6d2b2g...@4ax.com>,
> KenM47 <Ken...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>> chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu wrote:
>>
>> >KenM47 <Ken...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>> >>
<SNIP - no point repeating>
Obggbz yvar. N fubj gung jbexrq sbe zr sbe zbfg bs 4.5 lrnef, fgbccrq
jbexvat sbe zr gur ynfg gjb lrnef. Vg fgvyy jbexrq sbe lbh? Terng. Gb
zr gur terngarff bs gur rneyvre frnfbaf qrfpraqrq gb gevgrarff, gur
fhogyrgl naq uhzbe orpnzr naivyf naq fbcuzbevp. Fbzrguvat punatrq,
naq, VZB, abg va n tbbq jnl.
Fb, lrf, V nfx jul. Naq lrf, V'ir pbzr hc jvgu zl ernfbaf.
Ken (Brooklyn)
KenM47
I still have the book on my pile of To Be Read. Pretty much I go on
the cinematic (and Gorey set designed stage play).
Even Bela was portrayed as seducer. Each bloody bite, a deflowering.
"Rape"? To an extent. But I would say based on where the culture was,
some of it was still based on the idea of supposed female fear of sex,
that Victorian women were sexual begrudgingly at best, but once taken
by the vampire they became exotic and oversexed. Yes, relatively
recently female sexuality is presented in the media as much less
inhibited, but that was not the way things were in the 30s, the war
years 40s, or for most of the post-war era.
There has to be essays on this.
Ken (Brooklyn)