AOQ Angel Review 1-18: "Five By Five"
Arbitrar Of Quality
episodes in these review threads
ANGEL
Season One, Episode 18: "Five By Five"
(or "I erased it/A life wasted/I'm never going back again")
Writer: Jim Kouf
Director: James A. Contner
As I'd hoped from the title, Faith features prominently into FxF.
There's a weird dichotomy where I thought her first few scenes seemed
a little forced and over-the-top in nature, but I was digging them just
because it's Faith. And there's something fun about the somewhat
ridiculous club scene with her dancing, causing fights to start all
around and participating in them a bit in between steps. I also
noticed that a lot of the scenes with Faith give an atmospheric
L.A.-at-night vibe, as OBS was noting in the first couple episodes.
Some alleys with steam too. Anyway, the Slayer gets involved in the
plot thanks to the fact that Wolfram and Hart do the same...
And it's about fucking time, isn't it? Even before our special
guest star becomes relevant, the ATS-only cast seems to be getting
involved in something interesting. The opening decapitation gives us
some of the series' brand of dark humor, as does Angel
"convincing" the kid to testify. He's not someone to cross, huh?
The part in which he strides into the courtroom, and Lindsey's glare
at the end of the scene set the stage to say that our hero now knows
the kind of extensive organization that W&H is, and he's actively
picking a fight with them. I feel like we should've had this moment
no later than halfway into the season.
We follow up by assembling some of the lawyers that Angel has crossed
over the course of the series (Lindsey McDonald from "City Of," Lee
Mercer from "Sense And Sensitivity," and Lilah Morgan from "The
Ring"... as Don pointed out, they're all L.M.s). Juxtaposed with
our heroes having meetings, the villains do the same, giving them a
chance to develop their own personalities and stuff. For example, what
about the exchange between Lee and Lilah? "It's your people
skills. You don't have any." "[totally deadpan] You bitch."
"See?" Also, the way Lilah shows no fear when dealing with Faith
in all her unpredictability, but then allows herself a deep breath...
the little things count.
Didn't like the attempt at humor with Angel infiltrating W&H and
Lindsey chatting him up, but at least it had a point, setting up their
next scene together a minute later. I guess the lesson here is to
never challenge a lawyer to a veiled-threat-off, no matter how smooth
an operator you are.
Okay, back to Faith. More Faith-related visuals to take home:
- Her initial entrance from the bus. She looks so badass when she's
down on her luck.
- This trifecta of great moments: Faith just showing up in the middle
of our heroes' paths (as in "This Year's Girl"), Angel catching
her arrow, and Faith's "that was so cool!"
- Straddling Wesley while torturing him. Sex and violence are so
intertwined for her, throughout the whole episode...
There're some good jokes too, which I haven't listed for reasons of
length and because the serious parts are more important to me in an
episode like this. I will say that I generally have never gotten a
kick out of vapid-Cordy moments. But I'm going to make an exception
for the classic "Angel, it's not Wesley's fault that 'some
British guy' ruined your... Oh, wait. That was you." Hi-larious.
Oh, while we're on jokes, we get the famous "Phantom Dennis"
line that came up in earlier threads. It was never actually that
funny. And I'm surprised the series managed to restrain itself for
so long before giving us the seemingly inevitable "shut up,
Wesley."
I don't really know where to smoothly insert this, since it's all
connected, but there are also some flashback scenes, inserted seemingly
at random at first. I prefer the "Somnambulist" approach in which
we know why it's relevant and what to look for right away. But in
any case, this time we go to turn of the century Romania to see the
immediate aftermath of the re-souling. It's great to see Darla at
her most evil again, getting off on watching Angel feed on the Gypsy
girl's thigh (I think this is the first time we've seen a vamp go
for any vein other than the usual. It makes for a good visual). The
scene in which they alternately clutch at and recoil from each other
isn't bad either. Although the flashbacks tend towards a little more
melodrama than I liked, the line "funny - you'd think with all
the people I've killed and maimed, I wouldn't be able to remember
*every single one*," works wonders in terms of my appreciation.
Part of the purpose here is to help answer one of the more prominent
questions that might be kicking around a viewer's mind: why are we
doing Faith's story here on _Angel_ when the character's history is
so intimately tied to Buffy and company? As in "Consequences," the
fact that Angel's been a killer and had to live with himself
afterward lets him understand the villain in a way no one else can.
And given the final revelation about her motivations, it makes sense
that she's be so eager to target him - in her mind, he's quite
capable of killing again, in a way the Scoobies aren't.
I don't like Angel so curtly dismissing the others and pulling the
I'm-your-boss card given the events of "Eternity."
Someone, somewhere, got their proverbial panties in a bunch because of
the (incorrect) suggestion in FxF that Wesley was Faith's Watcher at
the same time that Giles was Buffy's.
This Is Really Stupid But I Laughed Anyway moment(s):
- "You can always tell when he's happy. His scowl is slightly
less... scowly."
- "I like the plan where I'm scarce." "We've got to band
together. There's strength in numbers." "Two is a number."
- Trying to see how close we can get to profanity on network TV
On to climax. Our rogue Slayer brutalizing our rogue demon-hunter
seems unusually and convincingly brutal considering how much of it is
off screen. His face looks so swollen after the "blunt" phase.
Enter Angel, and we get the big setpiece action scene. It fucks with
our natural tendencies as audience members to be cheering for the big
broad-shouldered guy to beat the shit out of the chick a hundred pounds
lighter than him, but hey, she deserves it. What's interesting is
that punches are thrown and stuff, but if you know what's coming (and
maybe if you're a perceptive first-timer, I don't know), he's
never doing enough damage to hurt her at any point. He's put it all
together; "I know what you want. I'm not gonna make it easy for
you." And that very last shot, well, no description would do it
justice, so I won't even try.
I'm a little more appreciative than usual, since I watched this one
twice (once with the fiancée), which may give this one an "unfair"
advantage ratings-wise compared to those I've only seen once. The
first time, I was fascinated by the revelation of how suicidal Faith
was, and wondering why I hadn't figured it out earlier, given the
setup, and how much sense it made of everything else. Re-watching only
impressed me more with how the whole show, and the BTVS two-parter as
well, was leading up to this moment. You've got the flashbacks as
discussed. You've got Faith's outbursts from "Who Are You?"
You've got all the scenes of her looking out windows as if about to
jump, her obsession with getting Angel angry enough to kill, her giving
Angel the gun and "one chance..."
Let's not forget Wesley, who has his own part to play here too. It
starts with the eagerness to save the "sick, sick girl," and moves
to him being the one to throw the first punch. Once the outpouring of
hate has started (channeling his self-perceived failure, perhaps?), it
just doesn't stop, but then he manages to surprise me with that
beautiful closing scene in which he takes stock of the situation and
wordlessly drops his knife in the rain.
And that's it?! C'mon, show! Actually, it's a powerful way to
end this chapter, but... Here the fact that I grew up on _Star Trek_
comes into play. It'd be just like Trek to end right here and never
see the guest character again. BTVS and ATS are usually different
kinds of shows than that, so I'd hope that this isn't it. Given
the extended arc that Faith has had, I have no doubt at all that
we'll see her again eventually, but her story can't end here even
temporarily; she *must* appear in some capacity next week. The fact
that she's such a great character of course contributes to my desire
to see lots more of her, even though that'd also put her at the top
of my death pool. At this point it'd almost make more sense to keep
her in L.A., although I hear Sunnydale's nice this time of year too.
DISCUSSION QUESTIONS:
1) Discuss the levels of symbolism behind the use of the song "Living
Dead Girl," attempting to fill as much page space as possible.
2) If Wolfram & Hart were to follow up on their threat to press charges
against Angel, who
would represent them?
3) The end of the fight with Angel in this episode echoes the fight at
the end of "Who Are
You?" Why do the authors place such emphasis on combat as a way to
understand this character?
Wrong answers, incomprehensible babbling, and jokes will not adversely
affect your grade.
So...
One-sentence summary: Exciting, and tells us a lot.
AOQ rating: Excellent
[Season One so far:
1) "City Of" - Good
2) "Lonely Hearts" - Weak
3) "Into The Dark" - Good
4) "I Fall To Pieces" - Good
5) "Rm W/ A Vu" - Decent
6) "Sense And Sensitivity" - Weak
7) "The Bachelor Party" - Decent
8) "I Will Remember You" - Excellent
9) "Hero" - Good
10) "Parting Gifts" - Decent
11) "Somnambulist" - Good
12) "Expecting" - Bad
13) "She" - Good
14) "I've Got You Under My Skin" - Decent
15) "The Prodigal" - Decent
16) "The Ring" - Decent
17) "Eternity" - Decent
18) "Five By Five" - Excellent]
One Bit Shy
news:1148097722.7...@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later _Buffy_ and _Angel_
episodes in these review threads
ANGEL
Season One, Episode 18: "Five By Five"
I'm not going to have time for full comments tonight. But I just had to
say.... FINALLY!!!! An Excellent Angel episode. I was getting worried
that I wouldn't find one in the first season. Faith comes through.
OBS
William George Ferguson
wrote:
>A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later _Buffy_ and _Angel_
>episodes in these review threads
>
>
>ANGEL
>Season One, Episode 18: "Five By Five"
>(or "I erased it/A life wasted/I'm never going back again")
>Writer: Jim Kouf
>Director: James A. Contner
Warning: A rating of less than 'excellent' may result in severe bodily
harm.
>As I'd hoped from the title, Faith features prominently into FxF.
A month of reruns (on both shows) followed Who Are You. About two weeks
before it aired, TV Guide listed the episode title and the two newsgroups
immediately had posts 'Don't look at the title, it's a huge spoiler'.
>
>We follow up by assembling some of the lawyers that Angel has crossed
>over the course of the series (Lindsey McDonald from "City Of," Lee
>Mercer from "Sense And Sensitivity," and Lilah Morgan from "The
>Ring"... as Don pointed out, they're all L.M.s). Juxtaposed with
>our heroes having meetings, the villains do the same, giving them a
>chance to develop their own personalities and stuff. For example, what
>about the exchange between Lee and Lilah? "It's your people
>skills. You don't have any." "[totally deadpan] You bitch."
>"See?" Also, the way Lilah shows no fear when dealing with Faith
>in all her unpredictability, but then allows herself a deep breath...
>the little things count.
Loved the LMs interviewing Faith WHAM "How do you look now." WHAM "How
about now." Lindsey: "I think you better make that three for dinner."
>
>I don't really know where to smoothly insert this, since it's all
>connected, but there are also some flashback scenes, inserted seemingly
>at random at first. I prefer the "Somnambulist" approach in which
>we know why it's relevant and what to look for right away.
I didn't have to say 'Oh!', I got it the first time. It's about
redemption.
>But in
>any case, this time we go to turn of the century Romania to see the
>immediate aftermath of the re-souling. It's great to see Darla at
>her most evil again, getting off on watching Angel feed on the Gypsy
>girl's thigh (I think this is the first time we've seen a vamp go
>for any vein other than the usual. It makes for a good visual).
The vamp family sitting down to Thanksgiving dinner while little
matchspike watched through the window.
Some of us can quote the entire scene from memory. As you sort of note
below, it echoes the final fight in WAY when Faiths was, in effect,
beating on herself screaming "You're filthy, you're disgusting, I hate
you, I hate you!", and here "I'm evil! I'm bad! Do you hear me. I'm bad
Angel, I'm bad! Do you hear me Angel? I'm bad, I'm bad, I'm bad! Please!
Angel, please, just do it! Just kill me. Just kill me." To me it's
really the bookend to the final scene of Revelations. Poor Broken Faith
is finally completely broken.
>I'm a little more appreciative than usual, since I watched this one
>twice (once with the fiancée), which may give this one an "unfair"
>advantage ratings-wise compared to those I've only seen once.
No, it's just that good.
>And that's it?! C'mon, show! Actually, it's a powerful way to
>end this chapter, but... Here the fact that I grew up on _Star Trek_
>comes into play. It'd be just like Trek to end right here and never
>see the guest character again. BTVS and ATS are usually different
>kinds of shows than that, so I'd hope that this isn't it. Given
>the extended arc that Faith has had, I have no doubt at all that
>we'll see her again eventually, but her story can't end here even
>temporarily; she *must* appear in some capacity next week. The fact
>that she's such a great character of course contributes to my desire
>to see lots more of her, even though that'd also put her at the top
>of my death pool. At this point it'd almost make more sense to keep
>her in L.A., although I hear Sunnydale's nice this time of year too.
>
>DISCUSSION QUESTIONS:
>1) Discuss the levels of symbolism behind the use of the song "Living
>Dead Girl," attempting to fill as much page space as possible.
>2) If Wolfram & Hart were to follow up on their threat to press charges
>against Angel, who
>would represent them?
>3) The end of the fight with Angel in this episode echoes the fight at
>the end of "Who Are
>You?" Why do the authors place such emphasis on combat as a way to
>understand this character?
Why do the writers place such an emphasis on combat (violence) as a way to
understand Faith? Is this a trick question?
>One-sentence summary: Exciting, and tells us a lot.
>
>AOQ rating: Excellent
Whew, won't have to look you up after all.
--
HERBERT
1996 - 1997
Beloved Mascot
Delightful Meal
He fed the Pack
A little
Don Sample
William George Ferguson <wmgf...@newsguy.com> wrote:
> On 19 May 2006 21:02:02 -0700, "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >On to climax. Our rogue Slayer brutalizing our rogue demon-hunter
> >seems unusually and convincingly brutal considering how much of it is
> >off screen. His face looks so swollen after the "blunt" phase.
> >Enter Angel, and we get the big setpiece action scene. It fucks with
> >our natural tendencies as audience members to be cheering for the big
> >broad-shouldered guy to beat the shit out of the chick a hundred pounds
> >lighter than him, but hey, she deserves it. What's interesting is
> >that punches are thrown and stuff, but if you know what's coming (and
> >maybe if you're a perceptive first-timer, I don't know), he's
> >never doing enough damage to hurt her at any point. He's put it all
> >together; "I know what you want. I'm not gonna make it easy for
> >you." And that very last shot, well, no description would do it
> >justice, so I won't even try.
>
> Some of us can quote the entire scene from memory. As you sort of note
> below, it echoes the final fight in WAY when Faiths was, in effect,
> beating on herself screaming "You're filthy, you're disgusting, I hate
> you, I hate you!", and here "I'm evil! I'm bad! Do you hear me. I'm bad
> Angel, I'm bad! Do you hear me Angel? I'm bad, I'm bad, I'm bad! Please!
> Angel, please, just do it! Just kill me. Just kill me." To me it's
> really the bookend to the final scene of Revelations. Poor Broken Faith
> is finally completely broken.
There is, of course, the question of how Angel got into the apartment in
the first place. Fanwanky answer: After talking with Cordy, Angel went
to the hospital to talk to the guy who lived there, and got him to issue
the invitation.
--
Quando omni flunkus moritati
Visit the Buffy Body Count at <http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/>
Stephen Tempest
>There's a weird dichotomy where I thought her first few scenes seemed
>a little forced and over-the-top in nature, but I was digging them just
>because it's Faith.
On first viewing I remember thinking "Is that it? All that
self-discovery and angst in 'Who Are You?', and now she's back to the
same old partying-and-violence Faith?"
Of course, that only meant that the ending was as surprising and
powerful for me as it was for you...
>"See?" Also, the way Lilah shows no fear when dealing with Faith
>in all her unpredictability, but then allows herself a deep breath...
>the little things count.
Enquiring minds want to know if Faith is in the habit of letting
rich-looking women pick her up in nightclubs and take her back to
their place...
>It's great to see Darla at
>her most evil again, getting off on watching Angel feed on the Gypsy
>girl's thigh (I think this is the first time we've seen a vamp go
>for any vein other than the usual. It makes for a good visual).
Darla opening a vein on her chest to feed Liam is the only one I can
think of.
>Enter Angel, and we get the big setpiece action scene.
Cue endless debate about how Angel managed to enter the room,
considering that its real owner was still alive and in hospital...
(My own explanation is that he contacted the owner, and said something
like "I think the girl who beat you up is now squatting in your
apartment - want me to go in there and kick her out for you?")
>Let's not forget Wesley, who has his own part to play here too. It
>starts with the eagerness to save the "sick, sick girl," and moves
>to him being the one to throw the first punch. Once the outpouring of
>hate has started (channeling his self-perceived failure, perhaps?), it
>just doesn't stop, but then he manages to surprise me with that
>beautiful closing scene in which he takes stock of the situation and
>wordlessly drops his knife in the rain.
The script describes it like this:
EXT. DOWNTOWN LOFT BUILDING - NIGHT
Wesley drops down onto the trash bin, slams into the alley. But comes
up with the look of a killer, with a LARGE KITCHEN KNIFE IN HAND.
Despite his injuries, he's remarkably adept. Not fumbling. But...
heroic.
And I'd agree: Wesley had some growth in IGYUMS, but this is the
moment he really graduates from bumbling comic relief to hero.
>AOQ rating: Excellent
Probably one of my top five episodes of the entire series. (Although
there are others I like just as much, so don't think that this is it
and it's all downhill from now on <g>.)
Stephen
Harmony Watcher
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later _Buffy_ and _Angel_
> episodes in these review threads
>
>
> ANGEL
> Season One, Episode 18: "Five By Five"
> (or "I erased it/A life wasted/I'm never going back again")
> Writer: Jim Kouf
> Director: James A. Contner
>
> DISCUSSION QUESTIONS:
> 1) Discuss the levels of symbolism behind the use of the song "Living
> Dead Girl," attempting to fill as much page space as possible.
> 2) If Wolfram & Hart were to follow up on their threat to press charges
> against Angel, who
> would represent them?
> 3) The end of the fight with Angel in this episode echoes the fight at
> the end of "Who Are
> You?" Why do the authors place such emphasis on combat as a way to
> understand this character?
>
> Wrong answers, incomprehensible babbling, and jokes will not adversely
> affect your grade.
>
<skit>
B: I have a question, Professor.
W: Yes, Miss Summers.
B: Will these questions be on the test?
W (obviously not amused, said with a wicked smile): Do you want them to
be?
</skit>
==(Harmony) Watcher==
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
> for any vein other than the usual. It makes for a good visual). The
femoral artery not vein that feeds the leg
the other major arteries are radial - arm (bite the wrist)
carotid - neck
amd the aorta inside the abdomen
arf meow arf - nsa fodder
al qaeda terrorism nuclear bomb iran taliban big brother
if you meet buddha on the usenet killfile him
Espen Schjønberg
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later _Buffy_ and _Angel_
> episodes in these review threads
>
>
> ANGEL
> Season One, Episode 18: "Five By Five"
> (or "I erased it/A life wasted/I'm never going back again")
> Writer: Jim Kouf
> Director: James A. Contner
>
> As I'd hoped from the title, Faith features prominently into FxF.
> There's a weird dichotomy where I thought her first few scenes seemed
> a little forced and over-the-top in nature, but I was digging them just
> because it's Faith.
Faith.
One of the reasons some of us tried to tell you to watch more of season
one than just the 17 first episodes.
No signal to noise-ratio here, just wanted to mention it.
> AOQ rating: Excellent
Yes. Of course. :-)
--
Espen
Rowan Hawthorn
> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> writes:
>
>> There's a weird dichotomy where I thought her first few scenes seemed
>> a little forced and over-the-top in nature, but I was digging them just
>> because it's Faith.
>
> On first viewing I remember thinking "Is that it? All that
> self-discovery and angst in 'Who Are You?', and now she's back to the
> same old partying-and-violence Faith?"
>
> Of course, that only meant that the ending was as surprising and
> powerful for me as it was for you...
>
>> "See?" Also, the way Lilah shows no fear when dealing with Faith
>> in all her unpredictability, but then allows herself a deep breath...
>> the little things count.
>
> Enquiring minds want to know if Faith is in the habit of letting
> rich-looking women pick her up in nightclubs and take her back to
> their place...
>
>
>> It's great to see Darla at
>> her most evil again, getting off on watching Angel feed on the Gypsy
>> girl's thigh (I think this is the first time we've seen a vamp go
>> for any vein other than the usual. It makes for a good visual).
>
> Darla opening a vein on her chest to feed Liam is the only one I can
> think of.
>
VVEP, Evyrl'f inzcjuber jnf fhpxvat ba uvf jevfg. Ohg, bs pbhefr, gung
fprar unfa'g orra erivrjrq lrg.
--
Rowan Hawthorn
"Occasionally, I'm callous and strange." - Willow Rosenberg, "Buffy the
Vampire Slayer"
MBangel10 (Melissa)
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later _Buffy_ and _Angel_
> episodes in these review threads
>
>
> ANGEL
> Season One, Episode 18: "Five By Five"
> (or "I erased it/A life wasted/I'm never going back again")
> Writer: Jim Kouf
> Director: James A. Contner
I will be singing along to that in about 10 hours. (Have you seen the
vid? Interesting) :)
>
<snip>
Don't have much time for responding but I agree, Faith definitely lifted
this Season up quite a few notches. Sorry I've been kind of MIA, I
haven't been home much lately.
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
> > think of.
> >
>
> VVEP, Evyrl'f inzcjuber jnf fhpxvat ba uvf jevfg. Ohg, bs pbhefr, gung
> fprar unfa'g orra erivrjrq lrg.
luke feeding off the masters wrist
Arbitrar Of Quality
> Warning: A rating of less than 'excellent' may result in severe bodily
> harm.
The sad/funny thing is, I was going to go with a high Good after the
first viewing. I can't believe what I jerk I was back then.
-AOQ
Mel
Don Sample wrote:
Maybe, but Angel asked Cordy where he lived, lending one to believe he
was going over there without talking to the guy first.
Mel
KenM47
I have not yet rewatched the ep. Wasn't the guy dead? I thought that
was the implication. Faith beat the guy so badly it caused the guy to
die?
Ken (Brooklyn)
One Bit Shy
news:1148097722.7...@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
> As I'd hoped from the title, Faith features prominently into FxF.
> There's a weird dichotomy where I thought her first few scenes seemed
> a little forced and over-the-top in nature, but I was digging them just
> because it's Faith.
I was struck by her slightly gothish makeup this episode. It made her look
great and awful, kind of at the same time - and seemed to make her mood
swings all that more expressive. Super cool when she was on top of her game
and kind of wasted as she's losing it.
Nothing felt over the top to me. I mean that's just Faith. But forced - or
maybe disconnected - yes, some. Her intro beating the guy up and saying she
thinks she's going to like L.A. would suit Faith fine at another point in
her life. But after Who Are You, how could this be? Surely the writers
wouldn't just relegate that to the dim recesses of history and return to
ordinary Faith.
But I think doing it that way is good. It feels forced because Faith is
forcing it - as I think she would. The Buffy alternative was forcefully
denied her - and in a way that burned in the idea that she was hopeless.
Living bad is all that's left for her. Which only increases the self
loathing. The only time she feels good is when she's entirely into the
moment causing mayhem. And since it feels so awful leaving the moment, she
increasingly tries to live every moment that way. Hence the frantic pace of
Faith living large early on. And, later, her eagerness to go after Angel.
Yeah, her history with Angel informs a lot of that desire, but at this point
she's kind of a junkie at living on the knife's edge, and Angel has the
sharpest edge to dance on. So we see Faith's genuine thrill at Angel
catching the arrow. And her desperate determination to get Angel in the
game. And like the junkie who's long since given up hope of getting clean,
the inner desire to escape by OD.
(I don't want to carry that analogy too far. It risks losing touch with her
emotional firestorm. Like the right/wrong, good/bad, righteous/evil
dichotomy. But at an animal impulse level I think it's a decent
illustration of how the process is working wth her.)
Anyway, back to the start, when little of this is clear yet, there's just
the discomfort that this surely can't be all. A bit of tension over when
and how the other shoe will drop. The episode beautifully builds that
tension to an unbearable level. Soon enough running well past the notion
that Who Are You would be forgotten and deep into the realm of Faith so out
of control that you know something has to give. But still not truly
revealing the object until the bitter end.
What an emotional ride. And then leaving you not only with wondering what
next for Faith, but pondering what it says about Angel that he understood
what was happening long before anybody else.
> And there's something fun about the somewhat
> ridiculous club scene with her dancing, causing fights to start all
> around and participating in them a bit in between steps.
I loved this scene. The joy of mahem. Not quite personal and bloody enough
to be Faith at her peak, but close. The pure pleasure of it made me think a
little of A Clockwork Orange. It's not quite at that level (or stylized
enough), but it has that sense of hurting for fun. (Now there's some
potential fanfic fun. Alex and Faith on a date.)
> I also
> noticed that a lot of the scenes with Faith give an atmospheric
> L.A.-at-night vibe, as OBS was noting in the first couple episodes.
> Some alleys with steam too.
Thanks for reminding me. The series has periodcially kept trying to
establish that visual style introduced early on, but it seems to have come
in fits and starts and not been entirely successful. It does seem stronger
here than usual. Aside from the LA-at-night vibe, there are other very
strong visual moments. Lindsey's office (the wide angle view with the
window backdrop) and the overhead of Faith's initial attack on Angel come to
mind.
> Anyway, the Slayer gets involved in the
> plot thanks to the fact that Wolfram and Hart do the same...
> And it's about fucking time, isn't it? Even before our special
> guest star becomes relevant, the ATS-only cast seems to be getting
> involved in something interesting. The opening decapitation gives us
> some of the series' brand of dark humor, as does Angel
> "convincing" the kid to testify. He's not someone to cross, huh?
> The part in which he strides into the courtroom, and Lindsey's glare
> at the end of the scene set the stage to say that our hero now knows
> the kind of extensive organization that W&H is, and he's actively
> picking a fight with them. I feel like we should've had this moment
> no later than halfway into the season.
So do I. But at least it happened. And now there's a reason for them to
have kept introducing a new lawyer.
I liked Angel in the convertable with a sword. It made me think that Joss
really needs a show where people get to ride horses. Wait a minute...
Anyway, I think, besides making the W&H connection, the opening serves to
introduce the notion of Angel understanding the conflict of good and bad
within others and the difficult path to redemption - though the latter
doesn't appear to be fully realized with Faith yet.
> We follow up by assembling some of the lawyers that Angel has crossed
> over the course of the series (Lindsey McDonald from "City Of," Lee
> Mercer from "Sense And Sensitivity," and Lilah Morgan from "The
> Ring"... as Don pointed out, they're all L.M.s). Juxtaposed with
> our heroes having meetings, the villains do the same, giving them a
> chance to develop their own personalities and stuff. For example, what
> about the exchange between Lee and Lilah? "It's your people
> skills. You don't have any." "[totally deadpan] You bitch."
> "See?" Also, the way Lilah shows no fear when dealing with Faith
> in all her unpredictability, but then allows herself a deep breath...
> the little things count.
Funny. I thought Lilah was visibly scared to death talking to Faith and
that Lee kind of saved the situation with his appearance. Of course Lee's
people skills would fail him later on, but still...
> Didn't like the attempt at humor with Angel infiltrating W&H and
> Lindsey chatting him up, but at least it had a point, setting up their
> next scene together a minute later.
The first guy was some generic lawyer - not Lindsey. But I still didn't
like the scene. A rare down moment in the show.
> Oh, while we're on jokes, we get the famous "Phantom Dennis"
> line that came up in earlier threads. It was never actually that
> funny.
Cordy did use the line in Room With A View. But you're right that it's not
very funny. What I did like was that Dennis was trying to help Cordy, which
he did in Expecting too. Cordy should pay more attention to him.
> I don't really know where to smoothly insert this, since it's all
> connected, but there are also some flashback scenes, inserted seemingly
> at random at first. I prefer the "Somnambulist" approach in which
> we know why it's relevant and what to look for right away.
I don't think that's possible here. It culminates with Angel's breakdown
and inability to continue as evil vampire - parallel to Faith's breakdown.
But the events leading to it don't really match current time. And I don't
think it's supposed to be all that clear where Faith is headed. (Though, in
retrospect, there are a lot of clues - including using Angel's story as a
parallel.)
I suppose there's also a side purpose being served in just completing
Angel's back story and passing ownership of it to this series.
> Although the flashbacks tend towards a little more
> melodrama than I liked, the line "funny - you'd think with all
> the people I've killed and maimed, I wouldn't be able to remember
> *every single one*," works wonders in terms of my appreciation.
The depiction of these flashbacks actually seems flatter than usual to me.
But, oddly, more appropriate. That line is excellent. Ties in really well
to Faith's self loathing and why Angel understands her.
> Part of the purpose here is to help answer one of the more prominent
> questions that might be kicking around a viewer's mind: why are we
> doing Faith's story here on _Angel_ when the character's history is
> so intimately tied to Buffy and company? As in "Consequences," the
> fact that Angel's been a killer and had to live with himself
> afterward lets him understand the villain in a way no one else can.
> And given the final revelation about her motivations, it makes sense
> that she's be so eager to target him - in her mind, he's quite
> capable of killing again, in a way the Scoobies aren't.
And why he might actually be less capable of killing her than they would.
> I don't like Angel so curtly dismissing the others and pulling the
> I'm-your-boss card given the events of "Eternity."
Really? It's not generic pulling rank. Part of it is genuine concern over
their wellfare. This is Faith we're talking about. She will kill. And she
will go through others to get to Angel. (It's funny to see him in Buffy's
boat this way. She keeps getting confronted with the same kind of issue.
Though Angel didn't exactly follow through by letting them just go home
where Faith could find them.) But more to the point, you can see in this
scene that Angel already knows where he's heading with Faith.
Wesley: I'm sorry. But if you let emotion control you right now, one of you
will certainly end up dead.
Angel: Yeah, that's what the lady wants.
And then continues by recounting Wesley's prior disaster with Faith and
Angel's relative success. I think Angel already imagines he can be the
solution and that Wesley in particular cannot.
> Someone, somewhere, got their proverbial panties in a bunch because of
> the (incorrect) suggestion in FxF that Wesley was Faith's Watcher at
> the same time that Giles was Buffy's.
I remember, but not exactly why. Five By Five doesn't even really suggest
that. It's just Faith imagining one way things might have been different.
> On to climax. Our rogue Slayer brutalizing our rogue demon-hunter
> seems unusually and convincingly brutal considering how much of it is
> off screen. His face looks so swollen after the "blunt" phase.
> Enter Angel, and we get the big setpiece action scene. It fucks with
> our natural tendencies as audience members to be cheering for the big
> broad-shouldered guy to beat the shit out of the chick a hundred pounds
> lighter than him, but hey, she deserves it. What's interesting is
> that punches are thrown and stuff, but if you know what's coming (and
> maybe if you're a perceptive first-timer, I don't know), he's
> never doing enough damage to hurt her at any point. He's put it all
> together; "I know what you want. I'm not gonna make it easy for
> you." And that very last shot, well, no description would do it
> justice, so I won't even try.
I wonder how this episode - and especially this end - works for an Angel fan
that never followed BtVS. Someone who wouldn't already know about Faith.
That lack of background information is always a problem for crossover
episodes. In previous crossovers they've tried to provide at least enough
context for the episode still to make sense. Would that be true here? I
was thinking that the I'm bad I'm evil stuff would feel awfully contrived
and make one throw their shoe at the TV.
Thank heavens I didn't have that problem. For me this ending ranks
favorably with big BtVS moments and earns the episode an emphatic Excellent.
It's like I can feel her crying in my arms.
One little thing in the fight. Faith saying relatively early on, "You can't
take me! No one can take me!" really struck me. I guess I knew all along
that in some fashion she was fighting her own demons - especially here with
the episode nearly over. But for me, that's when it unambiguously came out
in the open.
> I'm a little more appreciative than usual, since I watched this one
> twice (once with the fiancée), which may give this one an "unfair"
> advantage ratings-wise compared to those I've only seen once.
Ha, ha. Shame on you! Your innocence is spoiled.
Well, I offer no such pretense. I'll watch 'em as much as it takes. I'm
just trying to avoid getting too far ahead. (Only one episode ahead at the
moment. I was 4 episodes ahead back at the start - but that's because I was
bored waiting for your reviews to start up again.)
> The
> first time, I was fascinated by the revelation of how suicidal Faith
> was, and wondering why I hadn't figured it out earlier, given the
> setup, and how much sense it made of everything else. Re-watching only
> impressed me more with how the whole show, and the BTVS two-parter as
> well, was leading up to this moment. You've got the flashbacks as
> discussed. You've got Faith's outbursts from "Who Are You?"
> You've got all the scenes of her looking out windows as if about to
> jump, her obsession with getting Angel angry enough to kill, her giving
> Angel the gun and "one chance..."
And yet it didn't really give it away. Nice work.
> Let's not forget Wesley, who has his own part to play here too. It
> starts with the eagerness to save the "sick, sick girl," and moves
> to him being the one to throw the first punch. Once the outpouring of
> hate has started (channeling his self-perceived failure, perhaps?), it
> just doesn't stop, but then he manages to surprise me with that
> beautiful closing scene in which he takes stock of the situation and
> wordlessly drops his knife in the rain.
Let's not forget him. Way back in Bad Girls I very much appreciated the
humor of his role. (Even if I didn't care for what it implied about the
Watchers.) Pretty much everything since has left me indifferent. Sometimes
he improves a little. Sometimes he's just an oaf. Either way I haven't
cared about him. But here he's great. He was humiliated and steeled both
in this episode. And his taking of the knife near the end helped prolong
the tension - I was sure he had a big role to play in the end. With his
motivation and will to off Faith right then, how could I expect compassion
to win or that the purpose of the knife was to let it go? Nice work again.
> And that's it?! C'mon, show! Actually, it's a powerful way to
> end this chapter, but... Here the fact that I grew up on _Star Trek_
> comes into play. It'd be just like Trek to end right here and never
> see the guest character again.
Yes it would, wouldn't it? Does that make them the space alien Wagon Train?
> BTVS and ATS are usually different
> kinds of shows than that, so I'd hope that this isn't it. Given
> the extended arc that Faith has had, I have no doubt at all that
> we'll see her again eventually, but her story can't end here even
> temporarily; she *must* appear in some capacity next week. The fact
> that she's such a great character of course contributes to my desire
> to see lots more of her, even though that'd also put her at the top
> of my death pool. At this point it'd almost make more sense to keep
> her in L.A., although I hear Sunnydale's nice this time of year too.
I guess I shouldn't comment since I've seen the next episode.
> DISCUSSION QUESTIONS:
> 1) Discuss the levels of symbolism behind the use of the song "Living
> Dead Girl," attempting to fill as much page space as possible.
I did think Faith looked a bit vampirish here. And I note that there have
been a bunch of dark haired beauties lately. Does that mean Angel is done
with blondes?
> 2) If Wolfram & Hart were to follow up on their threat to press charges
> against Angel, who
> would represent them?
The D.A. would prosecute the case.
> 3) The end of the fight with Angel in this episode echoes the fight at
> the end of "Who Are
> You?" Why do the authors place such emphasis on combat as a way to
> understand this character?
Because Faith would say, "whatever," and walk out if they tried anything
else.
The other topic of discussion is what the flashbacks say about the nature of
the soul question. Here we see before and after Angel's initial ensouling.
For me, this depiction unambiguously shows continuity of identity. The soul
impacts him deeply, but is not literally replacement by a new identity.
It's just a new influence.
I think this may be leading me back towards the idea that the soul has made
Angel crazy. As in he's crafted a kind of split personality, with Angelus
walled off, as a way to cope with the horror of his evil deeds. If so,
maybe that's the explanation of the drug in Eternity. Maybe it didn't do
anything to the soul at all, but induced a kind of psychotic episode where
the repressed Angelus was let loose.
> So...
> One-sentence summary: Exciting, and tells us a lot.
> AOQ rating: Excellent
Yep.
OBS
eli...@gmail.com
>Angel crazy. As in he's crafted a kind of split personality, with Angelus
>walled off, as a way to cope with the horror of his evil deeds. If so,
>maybe that's the explanation of the drug in Eternity. Maybe it didn't do
>anything to the soul at all, but induced a kind of psychotic episode where
>the repressed Angelus was let loose.
Good thoughts all round, actually!
KenM47
Darla and Faith. Great stuff. And Wesley can never be quite the
buffoon again.
BTW, there was that "Open invitation" crack from Faith at Angel's
office. But I still think the guy she beat up died and the place
really wasn't Faith's to be under her residency "occupation."
Excellent it is.
Ken (Brooklyn)
Don Sample
KenM47 <Ken...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
The owner of the apartment was explicitly stated to be still alive, and
in the hospital. Nothing was said about his condition being critical.
Apteryx
news:1148097722.7...@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
>episodes in these review threads
>ANGEL
>Season One, Episode 18: "Five By Five"
I'm late, and don't have much time - it's been Super 14 rugby semifinals
weekend here in New Zealand :)
>As I'd hoped from the title, Faith features prominently into FxF.
>There's a weird dichotomy where I thought her first few scenes seemed
>a little forced and over-the-top in nature, but I was digging them just
>because it's Faith.
That seems to be characteristic of guest appearances by stars from one
series in the other (or in fact when seeing stars of these series making
guest appearances on other shows). I assume that the earliest shown scenes
were also amongst the earliest filmed, and that at the start of the first
day of shooting the guest actor doesn't have the same vibe with the director
and crew that they had on their own show. Fortunately, as with SMG in I Will
Remember You, ED is here long enough for that awkwardness to wear off.
>We follow up by assembling some of the lawyers that Angel has crossed
>over the course of the series (Lindsey McDonald from "City Of," Lee
>Mercer from "Sense And Sensitivity," and Lilah Morgan from "The
>Ring"... as Don pointed out, they're all L.M.s).
I think this is the first time we have seen W&H lawyers return for a second
episode (and of course, they are the LMs). Previously the W&H lawyers we
have seen have been in 1 episode only, interchangable.
>Didn't like the attempt at humor with Angel infiltrating W&H and
>Lindsey chatting him up, but at least it had a point, setting up their
>next scene together a minute later. I guess the lesson here is to
>never challenge a lawyer to a veiled-threat-off, no matter how smooth
>an operator you are.
I thought this was pretty pointless. The jokey scene isn't funny, and
breaking into Lyndsay's office not only doesn't lead anywhere but diminishes
the villains. State of the art mystic barriers to detect vampires, and when
one is detected the response is a guy with a gun? Who are these bunnies?
> Oh, while we're on jokes, we get the famous "Phantom Dennis"
>line that came up in earlier threads. It was never actually that
>funny.
Yeh it was. But I don't get Dennis in this scene. Did he know Faith was
waiting inside to attack Cordy and Wesley. If not, why not. If so, why
didn't he warn them or more effectively prevent their entering to be
attacked?
>immediate aftermath of the re-souling. It's great to see Darla at
>her most evil again, getting off on watching Angel feed on the Gypsy
>girl's thigh (I think this is the first time we've seen a vamp go
>for any vein other than the usual. It makes for a good visual).
But if that is the way it happened, why didn't the gypsies curse Darla? From
their POV, their favourite child disappears, kidnapped by Darla. Then she
turns up dead with fang marks. How would they even know Angel was involved?
It's the ending that really pays off. The first time I watched this episode,
I did as I often do, and fastforwarded through the fight scene. Naturally
that left me initially underwhelmed by this episode. But more than any other
action sequence so far, this is clearly a character driven fight. And I love
that touch with Wesley's knife at the end.
>One-sentence summary: Exciting, and tells us a lot.
>AOQ rating: Excellent
I earlier suggested that this season might end up having two "best" epsiodes
(because I knew that my rating for FxF was sufficiently close to my rating
for Parting Gifts that it could overtake it when I saw it again). And it
has. But for me, the episode only reaches the sublime in the last 5 minutes,
and hence the episode as a whole only rates a Good. It is my 15th favourite
AtS episode, best in season 1.
--
Apteryx
BTR1701
wrote:
> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in message
> > Oh, while we're on jokes, we get the famous "Phantom Dennis"
> >line that came up in earlier threads. It was never actually that
> >funny.
>
> Yeh it was. But I don't get Dennis in this scene. Did he know Faith was
> waiting inside to attack Cordy and Wesley. If not, why not. If so, why
> didn't he warn them or more effectively prevent their entering to be
> attacked?
Or do a Darth Vader and kill Faith by throwing stuff at her before
Wesley and Cordelia even showed up? We know he can affect physical
objects. Even a Slayer would be hard-pressed to survive once things like
the microwave started flying at her head at 30 mph.
Or he could just reach inside Faith and rip her aorta in half. The
possibilities are endless.
> >immediate aftermath of the re-souling. It's great to see Darla at
> >her most evil again, getting off on watching Angel feed on the Gypsy
> >girl's thigh (I think this is the first time we've seen a vamp go
> >for any vein other than the usual. It makes for a good visual).
>
> But if that is the way it happened, why didn't the gypsies curse Darla? From
> their POV, their favourite child disappears, kidnapped by Darla. Then she
> turns up dead with fang marks. How would they even know Angel was involved?
That's always been one of my nagging questions as well. How come the
gypsies focused all their wrath on Angelus when Darla was not only
equally to blame, she was the more visible target to them?
One Bit Shy
news:btr1702-958BE2...@news.giganews.com...
Why would Darla necessarily have been visible to them? I would think that
she is practiced in doing things surreptitiously.
Why couldn't that old gypsy woman simply have done a spell to locate the
killer?
OBS
Opus the Penguin
I suspect whether you'd rewatched it or not, your impression would
have gone up. This is an episode that gets under your skin and keeps
satisfying as you keep thinking about it. A lot of my favorite movies
have had the same quality. I came out of the theater thinking, yeah,
that was good. A week later I'm thinking, you know what? That was
great.
--
Opus the Penguin
The best darn penguin in all of Usenet
Don Sample
> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1148097722.7...@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
> >A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later _Buffy_ and _Angel_
> >episodes in these review threads
>
>
> >ANGEL
> >Season One, Episode 18: "Five By Five"
>
> > Oh, while we're on jokes, we get the famous "Phantom Dennis"
> >line that came up in earlier threads. It was never actually that
> >funny.
>
> Yeh it was. But I don't get Dennis in this scene. Did he know Faith was
> waiting inside to attack Cordy and Wesley. If not, why not. If so, why
> didn't he warn them or more effectively prevent their entering to be
> attacked?
What could he do? He's stuck in the apartment; he can't go outside it.
I haven't noticed that Cordy keeps a whiteboard around for him to write
notes on for her, or anything like that, but even if she does, Faith
would see whatever warning he tried to write, and erase it. I suppose
he could have tried writing a note on a piece of paper, and snuck it out
under the door when Faith wasn't looking, but the odds are that Cordy
would never notice it. (Maybe there was a note down there that we, like
Wes and Cordy, just never saw.)
Mel
One Bit Shy wrote:
>
>
>>Someone, somewhere, got their proverbial panties in a bunch because of
>>the (incorrect) suggestion in FxF that Wesley was Faith's Watcher at
>>the same time that Giles was Buffy's.
>
>
> I remember, but not exactly why. Five By Five doesn't even really suggest
> that. It's just Faith imagining one way things might have been different.
>
She seems to conveniently forget that Giles _was_ her (temporary)
Watcher until the Council fired him, and that Wes was, indeed, Buffy's
Watcher as well as hers.
This is just one more attempt for Faith to blame someone other than
herself for how bad her life has become. It's Buffy's fault. It's
Wesley's fault. It's never her fault. The denial gets deeper with every
word.
Mel
Mel
KenM47 wrote:
He's still alive when Angel and Cordy are discussing where Faith might
be holed up. Cordy says he's in the hospital and she was getting ready
to go visit him. The next time we see Angel he's busting down the front
door.
Mel
Arbitrar Of Quality
One Bit Shy wrote:
> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1148097722.7...@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
> > As I'd hoped from the title, Faith features prominently into FxF.
> > There's a weird dichotomy where I thought her first few scenes seemed
> > a little forced and over-the-top in nature, but I was digging them just
> > because it's Faith.
> Nothing felt over the top to me. I mean that's just Faith. But forced - or
> maybe disconnected - yes, some. Her intro beating the guy up and saying she
> thinks she's going to like L.A. would suit Faith fine at another point in
> her life. But after Who Are You, how could this be? Surely the writers
> wouldn't just relegate that to the dim recesses of history and return to
> ordinary Faith.
>
> But I think doing it that way is good. It feels forced because Faith is
> forcing it - as I think she would. The Buffy alternative was forcefully
> denied her - and in a way that burned in the idea that she was hopeless.
> Living bad is all that's left for her. Which only increases the self
> loathing. The only time she feels good is when she's entirely into the
> moment causing mayhem. And since it feels so awful leaving the moment, she
> increasingly tries to live every moment that way. Hence the frantic pace of
> Faith living large early on.
Your'e completely right. This episode just keeps on getting better the
more I think about it.
[slamming a couple comments from throughout the post together...]
> Anyway, back to the start, when little of this is clear yet, there's just
> the discomfort that this surely can't be all. A bit of tension over when
> and how the other shoe will drop. The episode beautifully builds that
> tension to an unbearable level. Soon enough running well past the notion
> that Who Are You would be forgotten and deep into the realm of Faith so out
> of control that you know something has to give. But still not truly
> revealing the object until the bitter end.
>
> And I don't
> think it's supposed to be all that clear where Faith is headed. (Though, in
> retrospect, there are a lot of clues - including using Angel's story as a
> parallel.)
Like you say, the epsiode (and TYG/WAY?) does a masterful job at
building up to and foreshadowing the ending without making it too
obvious to a first-timer.
> (Now there's some
> potential fanfic fun. Alex and Faith on a date.)
Horrorshow.
(But speaking of fanfic, despite the lack of conscious will on my part,
my brain immediately composed the outline for an Angel/Faith story
aftger this episode ended.)
> > Also, the way Lilah shows no fear when dealing with Faith
> > in all her unpredictability, but then allows herself a deep breath...
> > the little things count.
>
> Funny. I thought Lilah was visibly scared to death talking to Faith and
> that Lee kind of saved the situation with his appearance.
Oh, she's scared, but she's trying her hardest to keep from showing any
weakness at all. The little moment afterward where she lets down her
guard for just a second suggests how much stress she's not showing.
> I wonder how this episode - and especially this end - works for an Angel fan
> that never followed BtVS. Someone who wouldn't already know about Faith.
> That lack of background information is always a problem for crossover
> episodes. In previous crossovers they've tried to provide at least enough
> context for the episode still to make sense. Would that be true here? I
> was thinking that the I'm bad I'm evil stuff would feel awfully contrived
> and make one throw their shoe at the TV.
I had the same thought. Like "I Will Remember You" for me, it works in
large part *because* of my familiarity with the BTVS-based backstory.
> Well, I offer no such pretense. I'll watch 'em as much as it takes. I'm
> just trying to avoid getting too far ahead. (Only one episode ahead at the
> moment. I was 4 episodes ahead back at the start - but that's because I was
> bored waiting for your reviews to start up again.)
You don't actually have to watch at the same pace as the posting, you
know, although it's kinda cool. Reviewing is so slow compared to just
watching.
-AOQ
KenM47
Arbitrar Of Quality
Correct.
> I thought this was pretty pointless. The jokey scene isn't funny, and
> breaking into Lyndsay's office not only doesn't lead anywhere but diminishes
> the villains. State of the art mystic barriers to detect vampires, and when
> one is detected the response is a guy with a gun? Who are these bunnies?
They weren't necessarily trying to take him out, they were trying to
get him on tape breaking and entering. But yeah, the joke scene
leading up to it isn't funny.
> It's the ending that really pays off. The first time I watched this episode,
> I did as I often do, and fastforwarded through the fight scene.
.... I don't know what to say to that. I mean obviously different
things are of interest to different people, but Buffyverse shows do
tend to be heavy on the action, and it often tells us things. They're
actually unlike the other SF/F I've watched in that the writes seem to
think that there must be a punchy-kicky fight in every single epsiode,
sometimes approrpaite, sometimes less so.
> But for me, the episode only reaches the sublime in the last 5 minutes,
> and hence the episode as a whole only rates a Good.
I say that you can't have the last five minutes without the rest of the
story to set it up.
-AOQ
Don Sample
KenM47 <Ken...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
It would have been pretty silly of Angel to go running off to the guy's
apartment, if he didn't think he'd be able to get in. He's already done
the stuck outside watching someone get killed because he didn't have an
invitation thing once this year. I figure he either phoned the guy in
the hospital, or dropped by the hospital to get the invitation before he
went to the apartment.
(Harmony) Watcher
"Don Sample" <dsa...@synapse.net> wrote in message
news:dsample-8DF79D...@news.giganews.com...
noehcgyl naq ybhqyl. Be znlor guebj n punve ntnvafg gur qbbe, be qb jungrire
gb znxr n ybhq abvfr, lbh'q guvax? Erzrzore ur qvq gung gb jnxr Pbeql hc
jura iUnezbal jnf fgehttyvat jvgu ure hetr gb whzc Pbeql?
V'q guvax ur zvtug or ylvat gb Pbeql (be znlor rira gb uvzfrys) gung ur
fgvyy pbhyq abg yrnir gur ncnegzrag nsgre Pbeql eryrnfrq uvz sebz gur jnyy.
Naljnl, jul qb jr jnag gb guvax gung ur fgvyy pbhyq abg yrnir? Creuncf
Qraavf jrag bhg sbe n jnyx be jrag arkgqbbef gb fpeho gur onpxf bs bgure
onguvat jbzra?
==Harmony Watcher==
(Harmony) Watcher
"One Bit Shy" <O...@nomail.sorry> wrote in message
news:126veqe...@news.supernews.com...
<myFanFic>And she did, but the locator spell happened to find Angelus first.
Through her spell, she saw Angelus alone "snacking" on another young victim.
Then he ran like hell as soon as he saw the pesky lightning bug that was
spying in on him. Then he ran like hell, trying to escape the bug. But
before you know it, the bug went out of steam. So the old gypsy witch just
assumed, and cast her next spell. Voila, and the rest is history.
</myFanFic>
==Harmony Watcher==
KenM47
Yeah. Angel never does anything "silly."
Naq gur zheqref ersreerq gb va Fnapghnel? Whfg gubfr sebz OgIF?
Ken (Brooklyn)
Exp315
William George Ferguson wrote:
> Loved the LMs interviewing Faith WHAM "How do you look now." WHAM "How
> about now." Lindsey: "I think you better make that three for dinner."
The delivery in that scene was fabulous. The way Lindsey picks up the
phone and you think he's going to call for help - then he calmly
cancels the extra seat for dinner while continuing to watch Faith beat
up his colleague with cool detachment. And Lilah doesn't seem concerned
either.
This episode is really the first time we get to see the whole
Lindsey-Lilah-et al W&H cutthroat vibe.
I loved the W&H characters in this episode as much as the developments
between Angel and Faith, and Wesley's personal development into a new
type of character.
eli...@gmail.com
>have seen have been in 1 episode only, interchangable.
Mike Zeares
Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
>
> Your'e completely right. This episode just keeps on getting better the
> more I think about it.
Holds up well years later, too. It's one of the real gems of the
series.
> Horrorshow.
> (But speaking of fanfic, despite the lack of conscious will on my part,
> my brain immediately composed the outline for an Angel/Faith story
> aftger this episode ended.)
You know, I don't believe there has been a lot of Angel/Faith fic. I
can't think of any off the top of my head, although I'm sure there's
been some. Lots and lots of Faith/Buffy fic, of course. Some of it
quite bunk-worthy.
> Oh, she's scared, but she's trying her hardest to keep from showing any
> weakness at all. The little moment afterward where she lets down her
> guard for just a second suggests how much stress she's not showing.
Stephanie Romanov was very good at that kind of thing. She was very
good in general.
-- Mike Zeares
BTR1701
Don Sample <dsa...@synapse.net> wrote:
> In article <trkv62lnlapi84fdr...@4ax.com>,
> KenM47 <Ken...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> > Mel <melb...@uci.net> wrote:
> > >KenM47 wrote:
> > >
> > >> See. I told you things pick up.
> > >>
> > >> Darla and Faith. Great stuff. And Wesley can never be quite the
> > >> buffoon again.
> > >>
> > >> BTW, there was that "Open invitation" crack from Faith at Angel's
> > >> office. But I still think the guy she beat up died and the place
> > >> really wasn't Faith's to be under her residency "occupation."
> > >>
> > >> Excellent it is.
> > >He's still alive when Angel and Cordy are discussing where Faith might
> > >be holed up. Cordy says he's in the hospital and she was getting ready
> > >to go visit him. The next time we see Angel he's busting down the front
> > >door.
> > Which is why I think he died in the interim.
> It would have been pretty silly of Angel to go running off to the guy's
> apartment, if he didn't think he'd be able to get in. He's already done
> the stuck outside watching someone get killed because he didn't have an
> invitation thing once this year. I figure he either phoned the guy in
> the hospital, or dropped by the hospital to get the invitation before he
> went to the apartment.
Or the writers just screwed up and forgot about one of the little
details. Wouldn't be the first time.
BTR1701
Don Sample <dsa...@synapse.net> wrote:
> In article <e4o9lf$blc$1...@emma.aioe.org>, "Apteryx" <apt...@xtra.co.nz>
> wrote:
>
> > "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:1148097722.7...@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
> > >A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later _Buffy_ and _Angel_
> > >episodes in these review threads
> >
> >
> > >ANGEL
> > >Season One, Episode 18: "Five By Five"
> >
> > > Oh, while we're on jokes, we get the famous "Phantom Dennis"
> > >line that came up in earlier threads. It was never actually that
> > >funny.
> >
> > Yeh it was. But I don't get Dennis in this scene. Did he know Faith was
> > waiting inside to attack Cordy and Wesley. If not, why not. If so, why
> > didn't he warn them or more effectively prevent their entering to be
> > attacked?
>
> What could he do?
He could have killed Faith.
BTR1701
She sure wasn't surreptitious when she returned with Drusilla and went
on a rampage after learning what they did to Angelus.
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
BTR1701 <btr...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
having been murdered himself
was phantom dennis a killer
arf meow arf - nsa fodder
al qaeda terrorism nuclear bomb iran taliban big brother
if you meet buddha on the usenet killfile him
(Harmony) Watcher
dying breaths that you need to get into his apartment because you are a
vampire with a soul and can't get into his place without his invitation?
<spoil>V pna vzntvar n "Wbna-gb-Enaql" glcr be ng yrnfg n "Jvyybj-gb-Cnexre"
glcr bs erfcbafr sebz gur cbbe thl. Fb gb gehyl pbaivapr gur cbbe thl, Natry
unq gb inzc-va naq inzc-bhg n pbhcyr bs gvzrf va sebag bs gur cbbe thl gb
pbaivapr uvz?</spoil>
==Harmony Watcher==
BTR1701
<mair_fheal-75F84...@sn-ip.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net>,
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
<mair_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> In article <btr1702-4DE699...@news.giganews.com>,
> BTR1701 <btr...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> > In article <dsample-8DF79D...@news.giganews.com>,
> > Don Sample <dsa...@synapse.net> wrote:
> >
> > > In article <e4o9lf$blc$1...@emma.aioe.org>, "Apteryx" <apt...@xtra.co.nz>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:1148097722.7...@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
> > > > >A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later _Buffy_ and _Angel_
> > > > >episodes in these review threads
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >ANGEL
> > > > >Season One, Episode 18: "Five By Five"
> > > >
> > > > > Oh, while we're on jokes, we get the famous "Phantom Dennis"
> > > > >line that came up in earlier threads. It was never actually that
> > > > >funny.
> > > >
> > > > Yeh it was. But I don't get Dennis in this scene. Did he know Faith was
> > > > waiting inside to attack Cordy and Wesley. If not, why not. If so, why
> > > > didn't he warn them or more effectively prevent their entering to be
> > > > attacked?
> > >
> > > What could he do?
> >
> > He could have killed Faith.
>
> having been murdered himself
> was phantom dennis a killer
Acting in defense of others is hardly an act of moral turpitude.
Besides, if it really bothered him, he didn't have to kill her. He could
have just kicked her ass really good.
Arbitrar Of Quality
> BTW, there was that "Open invitation" crack from Faith at Angel's
> office. But I still think the guy she beat up died and the place
> really wasn't Faith's to be under her residency "occupation."
All this time, the answer was right in the thread and I didn't notice
it until seeing someone else mention it in the archives. Faith gives
Angel "an open invitation" to come after her. And the stolen apartment
wasn't legally Faith's or anything, but she was living there.
-AOQ
One Bit Shy
>
> One Bit Shy wrote:
>> Well, I offer no such pretense. I'll watch 'em as much as it takes. I'm
>> just trying to avoid getting too far ahead. (Only one episode ahead at
>> the
>> moment. I was 4 episodes ahead back at the start - but that's because I
>> was
>> bored waiting for your reviews to start up again.)
>
> You don't actually have to watch at the same pace as the posting, you
> know, although it's kinda cool. Reviewing is so slow compared to just
> watching.
I don't *have* to do anything. ;-) This is my first time through the series
and it's kind of fun to do it roughly parallel with your reviews and
discussion. For practical reasons it won't be precise. But I don't want to
get too far ahead because... well, I'm already doing that gig in the BtVS
reviews. This gets to be different.
OBS
One Bit Shy
news:1148163249....@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >I think this may be leading me back towards the idea that the soul has
> >made
>>Angel crazy. As in he's crafted a kind of split personality, with Angelus
>>walled off, as a way to cope with the horror of his evil deeds. If so,
>>maybe that's the explanation of the drug in Eternity. Maybe it didn't do
>>anything to the soul at all, but induced a kind of psychotic episode where
>>the repressed Angelus was let loose.
> That's very well put. I agree.
>
> Good thoughts all round, actually!
Thanks. Though I feel compelled to throw in the caveat that I think most of
the workings of the soul and demon possession remain shrouded in mystery.
(Presumably to provide more flexibility for the writing.) And that most of
the humans and beasts that attempt to speak authoritatively about it do so
with heavy doses of misinformation, superstition, and religious-like
doctrine that make it all the more fuzzy. Much as understanding of the soul
works in our world. It's fun to ponder. But nobody really knows.
OBS
Don Sample
Most people have never read "The Long Arm of Gil Hamilton" and it
wouldn't occur to them, just as it never occurs to the writers, that
Dennis could do something like reach into Faith's chest and give her
aorta a squeeze. It might not even be possible for him to do that. He
may be limited to acting on the outsides of things.
He has never been shown to have the strength necessary to more than
inconvenience Faith otherwise.
Also at this point, all Faith is guilty of that he knows about is
breaking and entering. Not something for which a deadly force response
is appropriate. For all he knows Faith's an old friend of Cordy's who's
stopped by and wants to surprise her.
BTR1701
Don Sample <dsa...@synapse.net> wrote:
He knew she was up to no good. Hence the door-slamming in Cordelia's
face.
Wes <>
wrote:
><eli...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:1148163249....@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> Good thoughts all round, actually!
>
>
>Thanks. Though I feel compelled to throw in the caveat that I think most of
>the workings of the soul and demon possession remain shrouded in mystery.
>(Presumably to provide more flexibility for the writing.) And that most of
>the humans and beasts that attempt to speak authoritatively about it do so
>with heavy doses of misinformation, superstition, and religious-like
>doctrine that make it all the more fuzzy. Much as understanding of the soul
>works in our world. It's fun to ponder. But nobody really knows.
>
>OBS
>
When you refer to "the humans and beasts...", are you speaking of the
show or the ng? :)
We've seen one (1) ensouled vampire react to a euphoria-enducing drug
in a certain way. That's not exactly a double blind-type scientific
way to determine why it happened or if the same thing will always
happen. It may not have anything to do with the curse.
On another note, just wanted to add another "excellent" to the list.
I've only watched AtS once, plus a few episode reruns while it was on
my local Fox affiliate. For most of the episodes I have a vague memory
of the A story but from here to the end of the season it only takes a
few lines of transcript to remember why I should probably go ahead and
buy the dvds. There really are some excellent stories told during
Angel's search for redemption.
Wes
Apteryx
>
> Apteryx wrote:
>
>> It's the ending that really pays off. The first time I watched this
>> episode,
>> I did as I often do, and fastforwarded through the fight scene.
>
> .... I don't know what to say to that. I mean obviously different
> things are of interest to different people, but Buffyverse shows do
> tend to be heavy on the action, and it often tells us things. They're
> actually unlike the other SF/F I've watched in that the writes seem to
> think that there must be a punchy-kicky fight in every single epsiode,
> sometimes approrpaite, sometimes less so.
The Buffyverse is a broad church, giving different people many different
reasons to watch it. I got into it in a fairly unusual way. I watch very
little current television, almost never watching a complete episode of
anything, let alone a complete series. I had seen a little of BtVS over the
years (maybe the whole of WTTH, and then a fragment here and there - plus an
episode you haven't reached yet (anzryl bapr zber jvgu srryvat) intrigued me
enough from its TV Guide description for me to make plans to watch it, and
then tape most of it).
I just happened to listen to a movie review on Radio New Zealand reviewing
the Preston Sturges movies Sullivan's Travels and The Lady Eve, then
recently released on Criterion Collection DVD. The reviewer played some of
the quick and clever dialogue from Sullivan's Travels, and the host
commented that you don't hear dialogue like that anymore. The reviewer
replied that you do, it's just that now you only get it on TV, on shows like
The West Wing and Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
And although I had never thought of it like that before, I knew enough of
all those shows to realise that was true. The resemblence is actually more
than that, because Preston Sturges wasn't alone in the 30's and 40's in
writing screwball comedies with clever dialogue, but for me he did better
than anyone else (with the arguable exception of Lubitsch) in combining that
cleverness with real characters, and those shows (at least in each of their
early seasons) had that same combination of virtues. That started me on a
project to catch up on the series (Season 7 was being broadcast for the
first time, Season 4 was being re-run) that eventually led me to collect all
of BtVS (and then AtS) on DVD. Joss Whedon as the turn-of-the-century
Preston Sturges.
Now, I naturally don't have a problem with the violence that tends to
resolve most BtVS stories. Sullivan's Travels also turns on two
(realistically brief) acts of violence. But where it gets into the longer
fight sequences, we are more in the realm of the choreographers and stunt
persons art rather than the scriptwriters, and that interests me less.
The fight at the end of this episode, and that in Who Are You, are of course
exceptions.
--
Apteryx
Apteryx
news:126veqe...@news.supernews.com...
>>> >line that came up in earlier threads. It was never actually that
>>> >funny.
>>>
>>> Yeh it was. But I don't get Dennis in this scene. Did he know Faith was
>>> waiting inside to attack Cordy and Wesley. If not, why not. If so, why
>>> didn't he warn them or more effectively prevent their entering to be
>>> attacked?
>>
>> Wesley and Cordelia even showed up? We know he can affect physical
>> objects. Even a Slayer would be hard-pressed to survive once things like
>> the microwave started flying at her head at 30 mph.
>>
>> Or he could just reach inside Faith and rip her aorta in half. The
>> possibilities are endless.
>>
>>> >immediate aftermath of the re-souling. It's great to see Darla at
>>> >her most evil again, getting off on watching Angel feed on the Gypsy
>>> >girl's thigh (I think this is the first time we've seen a vamp go
>>> >for any vein other than the usual. It makes for a good visual).
>>>
>>> But if that is the way it happened, why didn't the gypsies curse Darla?
>>> From
>>> their POV, their favourite child disappears, kidnapped by Darla. Then
>>> she
>>> turns up dead with fang marks. How would they even know Angel was
>>> involved?
>>
>> That's always been one of my nagging questions as well. How come the
>> gypsies focused all their wrath on Angelus when Darla was not only
>> equally to blame, she was the more visible target to them?
>
> Why would Darla necessarily have been visible to them? I would think that
> she is practiced in doing things surreptitiously.
>
> killer?
If the gypsies had a spell to do that back then, then surely they would he
rich enough in the present to have been able to hire a team of security
guards to watch Angel around the clock to see he didn't get too happy, and
kill him if he did :)
--
Apteryx
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
> rich enough in the present to have been able to hire a team of security
> guards to watch Angel around the clock to see he didn't get too happy, and
> kill him if he did :)
in case you havent noticed
the gypsies in this town are intensely stupid
jil...@hotmail.com
KenM47 wrote:
> Mel <melb...@uci.net> wrote:
> >He's still alive when Angel and Cordy are discussing where Faith might
> >be holed up. Cordy says he's in the hospital and she was getting ready
> >to go visit him. The next time we see Angel he's busting down the front
> >door.
> >
> >
> >
> >Mel
>
>
> Which is why I think he died in the interim.
I seem to have a dim recollection of that. Somewhere, I remember an
episode where they state it. Angel's at the door and can't get in,
then suddenly he can and he says something about the person living
there being dead or something.
KenM47
That was the earlier episode with Kate's father being killed by the
gangster vampires.
Ken (Brooklyn)
Kermit
That would be a spoiler technically. Hopefully, no one's enjoyment of
the series is harmed by the foreknowledge that in some future episode,
that Angel will be standing outside someone's apartment and suddenly be
able to enter due to the apartment's owner apparently dying (apparently
I say, since the person is not in or near the apartment at the time). :D
On a different subject, the way the no invite, no entry rule works in
terms of what constitutes ownership/residence is unclear. How long has
Faith been there, and how long does she have to be there to qualify? I
mean, does she need a lease?
Slayah
But I don't get Dennis in this scene. Did he know Faith
> was waiting inside to attack Cordy and Wesley. If not, why not. If
> so, why didn't he warn them or more effectively prevent their
> entering to be attacked?
He slammed the door on them twice. It takes a lot of energy to manifest
in the physical world when you're a ghost! Maybe he just ran out of
steam. OK, that doesn't explain why he didn't try to help again once
they were inside. Maybe he was afraid of Faith and hid in the wall.
(Harmony) Watcher
<jil...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1148254019....@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Ohg gurer'f nyfb gur sbyybjvat vapvqrag jvgu Xngr. Va Rcvcunal
(uggc://oqo.ieln.arg/oqo/pyvc.cuc?pyvc=5031) naq
(uggc://oqo.ieln.arg/oqo/pyvc.cuc?pyvc=5048), Natry jnf noyr gb ragre Xngr'f
ncnegzrag jvgubhg Xngr'f crezvffvba gb fnir ure sebz qlvat sebz BQ. Jurgure
jr yvxr vg be abg, gur obggbz yvar vf gung ehyrf unir rkprcgvbaf oraqnoyr ng
gur qvfpergvba bs gur jevgre(f).
==Harmony Watcher==
jil...@hotmail.com
Don Sample
"jil...@hotmail.com" <jil...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> If that was the earlier episode, then how could it be a spoiler?
Orpnhfr gur npghny vapvqrag ersreerq gb vf sebz gur frnfba 2 rcvfbqr
'Hagbhpurq.' Natry vf yrnavat ntnvafg gur oneevre xrrcvat uvz bhg bs n
ubfcvgnyvmrq onq thl'f ncnegzrag juvyr Thaa frnepurf vg. Gur oneevre
fhqqrayl inavfurf, naq Natry snyyf vagb gur ncnegzrag. "V thrff fbzrbar
vf bss gur pevgvpny yvfg."
KenM47
>In article <1148265475....@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
> "jil...@hotmail.com" <jil...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> If that was the earlier episode, then how could it be a spoiler?
>
>Orpnhfr gur npghny vapvqrag ersreerq gb vf sebz gur frnfba 2 rcvfbqr
>'Hagbhpurq.' Natry vf yrnavat ntnvafg gur oneevre xrrcvat uvz bhg bs n
>ubfcvgnyvmrq onq thl'f ncnegzrag juvyr Thaa frnepurf vg. Gur oneevre
>fhqqrayl inavfurf, naq Natry snyyf vagb gur ncnegzrag. "V thrff fbzrbar
>vf bss gur pevgvpny yvfg."
From "The Prodigal":
"Suit guy to Angel: Looks like you’re not welcome
here, bro.
Angel: He dies, the very instant his soul leaves his
body, I’m through this door and I’ll kill you both!"
Ken (Brooklyn)
peachy ashie passion
> In article <e4o9lf$blc$1...@emma.aioe.org>, "Apteryx" <apt...@xtra.co.nz>
> wrote:
>
>
>>"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in message
>
>
>>>Oh, while we're on jokes, we get the famous "Phantom Dennis"
>>>line that came up in earlier threads. It was never actually that
>>>funny.
>>
>>didn't he warn them or more effectively prevent their entering to be
>>attacked?
>
>
> Wesley and Cordelia even showed up? We know he can affect physical
> objects. Even a Slayer would be hard-pressed to survive once things like
> the microwave started flying at her head at 30 mph.
>
> Or he could just reach inside Faith and rip her aorta in half. The
> possibilities are endless.
>
>
>>>immediate aftermath of the re-souling. It's great to see Darla at
>>>her most evil again, getting off on watching Angel feed on the Gypsy
>>>girl's thigh (I think this is the first time we've seen a vamp go
>>>for any vein other than the usual. It makes for a good visual).
>>
>>But if that is the way it happened, why didn't the gypsies curse Darla? From
>>their POV, their favourite child disappears, kidnapped by Darla. Then she
>>turns up dead with fang marks. How would they even know Angel was involved?
>
>
> That's always been one of my nagging questions as well. How come the
> gypsies focused all their wrath on Angelus when Darla was not only
> equally to blame, she was the more visible target to them?
male dominated society creates male dominated thinking. ;)
peachy ashie passion
How about this way: "hey, I think the chick who beat you took your
keys and is staying in your place. I didn't want to go in your apartment
though without your permission, you've been through enough without me
adding to it"
Whereon the guy says "oh no, go right in, thank you!"
KenM47
The comments made in the beginning of Sanctuary now have me thinking
he wasn't dead (the tense in he "ID's" her rather than "ID'd" her)
So there must have been an invitation, or Faith's "open invitation"
and squatter's rights were enough.
Ken (Brooklyn)
BTR1701
peachy ashie passion <exquisi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Oh, stop it! This stuff can be confusing enough without you going and
introducing patriarchy into it.
peachy ashie passion
*hangs head* Yessir. Sorry.
(Harmony) Watcher
"peachy ashie passion" <exquisi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:mZpcg.6855$ix2.5830@trnddc03...
Or (as I said earlier), how about a Willow-to-Parker-ish (be n
Wbna-gb-Enaql-vfu) kind of response from the guy? :)
==Harmony Watcher==
(Harmony) Watcher
"KenM47" <Ken...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:9ob472tv4d9rbekf7...@4ax.com...
apartment?
==Harmony Watcher==
Arbitrar Of Quality
> The comments made in the beginning of Sanctuary now have me thinking
> he wasn't dead (the tense in he "ID's" her rather than "ID'd" her)
>
> So there must have been an invitation, or Faith's "open invitation"
> and squatter's rights were enough.
I'm going with the latter. She was living there, so it's her place of
dwelling. Angel has an open invitation (that word choice can't be an
acident), and ATS has a history of playing a little bit fast-n-loose
with the invitation rules. [This would represent a continuity change,
though, if I'm right in vaguely remembering the hotel room in BTVS S3
as being fair game to vampires.]
-AOQ
Arbitrar Of Quality
> I don't have a lot of time to comment, and some have already said it.
>
> Faith -
> As much of a mystery as she will always be, from Buffy S3 till now, I
> couldn't remember when I started to "give up" on this person.
> Something that is very unusual for me. Sometime between Bad Girls and
> Who are You, she had become a lost cause.
>
> On First Viewing, FXF was supposed to be her swan song. Faith goes out
> in a blaze of glory, per the Mayor's instructions. If there was anyone
> CHEERING for Angel to kill her, just seconds before she actually says
> it, it was me.
>
> I waited, wanted, needed Angel to deliver the death blow. I seem to
> remember shouting something to the effect of "PUT THE F******G BITCH IN
> THE GROUND!" Wesley's
> revelation, dropping the knife, was also my own.
>
> It was a very powerful ep, and an extremely powerful moment in the
> Buffyverse for me. The closing show, not on Faith, not on Angel, not
> on Wesley, but on that dropped knife, all involved, I also had to drop
> my own and take a look at myself to see exactly what I missed.
>
> Going through S3, detail for detail, line for line, shot for shot, I
> didn't miss much if anything at all. But I still failed, because like
> Wesley, and so many others, I gave up on someone.
>
> Kudos to Joss!
FxF is such a powerful show.
-AOQ
James Craine
Apteryx wrote:
> Yeh it was. But I don't get Dennis in this scene. Did he know Faith was
> waiting inside to attack Cordy and Wesley. If not, why not. If so, why
> didn't he warn them or more effectively prevent their entering to be
> attacked?
Yes, he knew. He made a feeble attempt to keep them out by
closing the door after CC opened it the first time. Then
nothing. He certainly could have done more. Why didn't he
clobbered Faith with a baseball bat?
James Craine
Don Sample wrote:
> He has never been shown to have the strength necessary to more than
> inconvenience Faith otherwise.
>
> Also at this point, all Faith is guilty of that he knows about is
> breaking and entering. Not something for which a deadly force response
> is appropriate. For all he knows Faith's an old friend of Cordy's who's
> stopped by and wants to surprise her.
>
He knows enough to try to keep them out by slamming the door
when they first open it.