AOQ Angel Review 1-13: "She"
Arbitrar Of Quality
episodes in these review threads
ANGEL
Season One, Episode 13: "She"
(or "Can you hear me now?")
Writers: David Greenwalt and Marti Noxon
Director: David Greenwalt
I didn't think I was going to like this one at first. The teaser
started to put me in a bad mood. Let's laugh how lame our hero is at
a party, ha ha. But as the scene progressed I started to realize that
there was a point to it (ah, yes, the traditional introducion of the
episode's themes). Once in awhile Angel is forced into these
situations that are just not his world at all, and he doesn't know
how to handle them; I think anyone who has the same personality type as
he does should be able to relate to that. And he doesn't want to be
there and is just doing a favor to Cordelia by showing up, but as we
find out later, he still manages to end up offending someone. It's
funny because it's true. Also, notice the way our writers do the
clownish fanficcy stuff like Angel dancing without damaging the
character? Good. The fact that this scene features another cameo by
Dennis helps sweeten the deal.
While we're talking about being able to relate to a bit of humor,
anyone who's ever had bad phone reception distort their clever
wordplay beyond recognition should appreciate the running joke with the
cell phone. And one more nice gag I just wanted to mention:
Cordelia's request to hold her, purely for reasons of physical
support during a vision. Heh.
This is one of those episodes where not much happens in the early
going, other than stumbling through L.A. at night (or in the darkened
Angelmobile during the day). Here the power of atmosphere helps carry
it along. Greenwalt shoots almost everything (except the party, of
course) in these dark tones and slightly arty shots that keep the
viewer's attention. It's kinda hypnotic, like a mood-piece.
The action picks up once we meet Demon #2 for the week, Jhiera The
Accented Cylon Chick. Her initial attack on our hero is suitably quick
and brutal, and then the chase through the art gallery has some nice
layers; she doesn't give any indication that she knows she's being
tailed, then quietly enlists the security guard in keeping black-coat
guy away... except that he takes off the coat. I don't know that no
one would react at all if an art-history guru just went into a spiel
out of nowhere, but I still thought it was a fun scene.
Jhiera isn't the show's greatest of creations; a demon who ~drives
men wild!!~ with her mystic energies and ridiculous outfit. And I
can't think of any interesting metaphors that can be drawn from the
description of her society, just boring ones, so we're stuck with
just the face-value stuff here. I also think her mix of strength and
vulnerability seems a little too dependent on what the plot requires at
the moment, although that's not bad enough to be a major complaint.
Story-wise things still work pretty well. The background information
can unfold in parts since neither side particularly wants Angel
involved. Should Angel take her at her word that her cause is noble?
Obviously, helping those who could use it (regardless of whether they
claim to want it) transcends dimensions. But Jhiera has been
responsible for the deaths of five innocent people and seems to think
that's acceptable. She's dangerous.
The tension adds a lot to "She." This episode could have been
something baser and had Angel fall under her spell. Instead he's
clearly affected on a sexual level, but stays focused on what has to be
done. Not that he's perfect - although he tries to stand up for
our world, he's still way softer than perhaps he should be on someone
who shows no remorse for the collateral damage she does. Towards the
end, the show has Cordelia say "can I get you something? Knife to
our throat so you can run away?" In case either the viewer or the
hero happened to forget during the times they fought as allies, she's
a threat, and has little regard for human life. It's a constant
tightrope act, with control under siege from both a cause and from
personal issues. The episode ends with Jhiera and Angel both promising
to "do what I think is right." Not entirely satisfying, and I
don't think it's supposed to be.
Fun suspense and action sequences at the spa; for some reason I really
liked Mars, the spa worker. He seems totally in on the situation, and
has committed himself to doing what little he's capable of doing to
protect the aliens. Far out, man.
In my notorious lack of appreciation for humor, I've gotta say that I
don't see why people like the Wesley character so much. His trying
to hit on the underwear Cylon chicks is rather excruciating. Even
Xander at age sixteen had a sense of when a crisis was immediate enough
that the lameness needed to be toned down. I think that blueberry
scone might be more interesting as a member of the AI team.
This Is Really Stupid But I Laughed Anyway moment(s)
- "He was cooler." "Now I'm depressed."
- Angel dancing is about as stupid-but-funny as it gets. And we get to
see it twice; first "special" credits in awhile.
So...
One-sentence summary: Succeeds through strength of vibe.
AOQ rating: Good
[Season One so far:
1) "City Of" - Good
2) "Lonely Hearts" - Weak
3) "Into The Dark" - Good
4) "I Fall To Pieces" - Good
5) "Rm W/ A Vu" - Decent
6) "Sense And Sensitivity" - Weak
7) "The Bachelor Party" - Decent
8) "I Will Remember You" - Excellent
9) "Hero" - Good
10) "Parting Gifts" - Decent
11) "Somnambulist" - Good
12) "Expecting" - Bad
13) "She" - Good]
Slayah
Also, notice the way our writers do the
> clownish fanficcy stuff like Angel dancing without damaging the
> character? Good.
What, that's IT?!!! That's all you have to say about Angel dancing? That
scene is just about the funniest thing ever recorded in the Whedonverse!
Mohamel
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later _Buffy_ and _Angel_
> episodes in these review threads
>
>
> ANGEL
> Season One, Episode 13: "She"
> (or "Can you hear me now?")
> Writers: David Greenwalt and Marti Noxon
> Director: David Greenwalt
>
>
> The action picks up once we meet Demon #2 for the week, Jhiera The
> Accented Cylon Chick. Her initial attack on our hero is suitably quick
> and brutal, and then the chase through the art gallery has some nice
> layers; she doesn't give any indication that she knows she's being
> tailed, then quietly enlists the security guard in keeping black-coat
> guy away... except that he takes off the coat. I don't know that no
> one would react at all if an art-history guru just went into a spiel
> out of nowhere, but I still thought it was a fun scene.
Mmmmmm cylons...
mo
Mike Zeares
the Angel Dance scenes. But the A plot makes me want to shoot
somebody.
-- Mike Zeares
One Bit Shy
news:1147132708....@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later _Buffy_ and _Angel_
> episodes in these review threads
>
>
> ANGEL
> Season One, Episode 13: "She"
> (or "Can you hear me now?")
> Writers: David Greenwalt and Marti Noxon
> Director: David Greenwalt
>
> I didn't think I was going to like this one at first. The teaser
> started to put me in a bad mood. Let's laugh how lame our hero is at
> a party, ha ha. But as the scene progressed I started to realize that
> there was a point to it (ah, yes, the traditional introducion of the
> episode's themes). Once in awhile Angel is forced into these
> situations that are just not his world at all, and he doesn't know
> how to handle them; I think anyone who has the same personality type as
> he does should be able to relate to that. And he doesn't want to be
> there and is just doing a favor to Cordelia by showing up, but as we
> find out later, he still manages to end up offending someone. It's
> funny because it's true. Also, notice the way our writers do the
> clownish fanficcy stuff like Angel dancing without damaging the
> character? Good. The fact that this scene features another cameo by
> Dennis helps sweeten the deal.
Wow. You ended up liking that a whole lot more than I did. I think the
intent was fine, but the execution was blah to me. There was one moment
where I liked Angel's puzzled expression and darting eyes as he watched
Wesley make a fool of himself over the sweater.
As for the theme, yes we did see the start of everybody's need to cool down,
chill off, put some ice on it and take a cold shower. Seeing how often a
variation of that could be squeezed in proved one of the more entertaining
aspects of the show for me.
> While we're talking about being able to relate to a bit of humor,
> anyone who's ever had bad phone reception distort their clever
> wordplay beyond recognition should appreciate the running joke with the
> cell phone. And one more nice gag I just wanted to mention:
> Cordelia's request to hold her, purely for reasons of physical
> support during a vision. Heh.
>
> This is one of those episodes where not much happens in the early
> going, other than stumbling through L.A. at night (or in the darkened
> Angelmobile during the day). Here the power of atmosphere helps carry
> it along. Greenwalt shoots almost everything (except the party, of
> course) in these dark tones and slightly arty shots that keep the
> viewer's attention. It's kinda hypnotic, like a mood-piece.
The music is very good in this part too. Alas, it didn't keep up.
Also, a new Batman moment. I see that the gadgets are back.
> The action picks up once we meet Demon #2 for the week, Jhiera The
> Accented Cylon Chick.
For some reason I have this feeling that her performance would have been
greatly enhanced had it been dubbed - very badly. (As in voice out of synch
with the lips.)
> Her initial attack on our hero is suitably quick
> and brutal, and then the chase through the art gallery has some nice
> layers; she doesn't give any indication that she knows she's being
> tailed, then quietly enlists the security guard in keeping black-coat
> guy away... except that he takes off the coat. I don't know that no
> one would react at all if an art-history guru just went into a spiel
> out of nowhere, but I still thought it was a fun scene.
I think so too. I must say that though the episode is sometimes as dumb as
the last, it is tautly paced with a nice variety of scenes and situations.
> Jhiera isn't the show's greatest of creations; a demon who ~drives
> men wild!!~ with her mystic energies and ridiculous outfit. And I
> can't think of any interesting metaphors that can be drawn from the
> description of her society, just boring ones, so we're stuck with
> just the face-value stuff here.
Female circumcision.
> I also think her mix of strength and
> vulnerability seems a little too dependent on what the plot requires at
> the moment, although that's not bad enough to be a major complaint.
It confused me. Does she like have to recharge or something?
> Story-wise things still work pretty well. The background information
> can unfold in parts since neither side particularly wants Angel
> involved. Should Angel take her at her word that her cause is noble?
Tough for him to figure out when he's got to take a cold shower.
> Obviously, helping those who could use it (regardless of whether they
> claim to want it) transcends dimensions. But Jhiera has been
> responsible for the deaths of five innocent people and seems to think
> that's acceptable. She's dangerous.
And dizzying. The swooping turning camera shots in one scene and her manic
constant motion in a later scene induced vertigo in me.
> The tension adds a lot to "She." This episode could have been
> something baser and had Angel fall under her spell. Instead he's
> clearly affected on a sexual level, but stays focused on what has to be
> done.
Namely take a cold shower.
> Not that he's perfect - although he tries to stand up for
> our world, he's still way softer than perhaps he should be on someone
> who shows no remorse for the collateral damage she does. Towards the
> end, the show has Cordelia say "can I get you something? Knife to
> our throat so you can run away?"
Nice line.
> In case either the viewer or the
> hero happened to forget during the times they fought as allies, she's
> a threat, and has little regard for human life. It's a constant
> tightrope act, with control under siege from both a cause and from
> personal issues. The episode ends with Jhiera and Angel both promising
> to "do what I think is right." Not entirely satisfying, and I
> don't think it's supposed to be.
Wow. Constant tightrope act? Your review packs a hell of a lot more
tension than I got from viewing the episode.
But I'll credit you with latching onto the intent and letting the idea cary
you through the not always quite so scintilating depiction. Now if I can
only get you do the same with the Initiative story line in BtVS. <g>
> Fun suspense and action sequences at the spa; for some reason I really
> liked Mars, the spa worker. He seems totally in on the situation, and
> has committed himself to doing what little he's capable of doing to
> protect the aliens. Far out, man.
>
> In my notorious lack of appreciation for humor, I've gotta say that I
> don't see why people like the Wesley character so much. His trying
> to hit on the underwear Cylon chicks is rather excruciating.
Yes, but he did fall out of the convertable nicely.
> Even
> Xander at age sixteen had a sense of when a crisis was immediate enough
> that the lameness needed to be toned down. I think that blueberry
> scone might be more interesting as a member of the AI team.
He got pathetic again at the end too. But at least the line about washing
each coffee bean individually is amusing.
> This Is Really Stupid But I Laughed Anyway moment(s)
> - "He was cooler." "Now I'm depressed."
> - Angel dancing is about as stupid-but-funny as it gets. And we get to
> see it twice; first "special" credits in awhile.
>
>
> So...
>
> One-sentence summary: Succeeds through strength of vibe.
>
> AOQ rating: Good
This was a very strange episode to me. Many of the trappings suggest
something special brewing. Exotic new character with unusual powers who may
or may not oppose Angel. Some pretty sharp pacing. Good visual and musical
mood as Angel has a Batman moment that kind of works. (Great stunt work by
whoever ran up that ladder.) A few delightful moments of a show that seems
at ease with itself - like the cell phone scene and the art lecture. There
definitely are good things about it.
But, gee, it would help if the exotic new character could, like you know -
act. And if her purpose in this dimension involved something more than
keeping a menagerie of scantily dressed starlets on ice. And, you know,
it's really hard to take the evil patriarchal society stuff at all seriously
when its that lame and obvious and contrasted by bimbos on ice cubes so that
they literally don't go into heat.
None of the action scenes worked for me either.
Maybe if I just took it all as camp. But, I'm sorry, I tapped out on that
last episode. (Besides Cordelia drinking blood was better than anything in
this episode.)
So I end up borderline Weak to Decent. Now it's time for a cold shower.
OBS
Lord Usher
news:125vven...@news.supernews.com:
> Wow. You ended up liking that a whole lot more than I did.
Indeed. But as long as the episode didn't AOQ want to kill himself and
everyone involved in its creation, he couldn't possibly have disliked it
more than me. :)
In many circles this is considered the all-time worst episode of any
Mutant Enemy show, full stop. In my circle it's considered one of the
low points of human civilization. :)
Or, as I put it back in 2000:
"Mere words are insufficient to describe how much I loathe this smug,
shallow, trite, muddled, unsexy, horrible awful *terrible* episode. All
the shortcomings, foolish indulgences, and lack of thought of which
Buffyverse writers are occasionally guilty rolled into one great big
ball of suck."
> I think the intent was fine, but the execution was blah to me.
Considering the particulars of the episode actually *contradicted* its
obvious intent, I think that's putting it mildly. :)
>> Jhiera isn't the show's greatest of creations; a demon who ~drives
>> men wild!!~ with her mystic energies and ridiculous outfit. And I
>> can't think of any interesting metaphors that can be drawn from the
>> description of her society, just boring ones, so we're stuck with
>> just the face-value stuff here.
>
> Female circumcision.
Yes, at last an episode of ANGEL dared to take the controversial stand,
"Female genital mutilation is bad."
If only it hadn't simultaneously *validated* the misogynist arguments
used to justify such barbarism, by postulating a race of females who
actually *do* bear responsibility for provoking irresistible sexual
urges in men.
--
Lord Usher
"I'm here to kill you, not to judge you."
Lord Usher
wrt-01.rdc-nyc.rr.com:
Too bad it baldly contradicts the *central point* of the episode -- the
idea that Angel stays away from women for fear of unleashing something dark
and uncontrollable within himself, not for fear that he'd look like a spaz.
Opus the Penguin
Leroy. I hated this one as much as Expecting. Which means I hated it
more than Expecting, because I still had some hate left over when I
watched it. Calling this episode "Good" is just unfathomable to me.
It was excruciating.
But it's not enough to just tell AOQ I hated SHE. I want to explain
why. And that's a problem because I find my mind has blocked it out.
Ya know what? Once AOQ is done, I'm the next reviewer up. I'll watch
through them all starting with Buffy season 1. But I won't give a
newcomer's impressions. Instead, I'll review each show with the whole
arc in mind while offering reminiscinces about my first impressions
where those were different or interesting.
If I don't chicken out, I'll re-watch Expecting and SHE when they
come up (nf jryy nf Frnfba Sbhe) and explain my loathing in morbid
detail.
--
Opus the Penguin
The best darn penguin in all of Usenet
Arbitrar Of Quality
> "Slayah" <Sla...@hellmouth.com> wrote in news:lkR7g.53600$x97.34550@news-
> wrt-01.rdc-nyc.rr.com:
>
> > scene is just about the funniest thing ever recorded in the Whedonverse!
>
> Too bad it baldly contradicts the *central point* of the episode -- the
> idea that Angel stays away from women for fear of unleashing something dark
> and uncontrollable within himself, not for fear that he'd look like a spaz.
They're not mutually exclusive.
-AOQ
Arbitrar Of Quality
> > Female circumcision.
>
> Yes, at last an episode of ANGEL dared to take the controversial stand,
> "Female genital mutilation is bad."
Heh. Agreed. Like I said, this is one that I don't see the point of
delving too deeply into the metaphor, because it's much less
interesting as an allegory than as a show.
> If only it hadn't simultaneously *validated* the misogynist arguments
> used to justify such barbarism, by postulating a race of females who
> actually *do* bear responsibility for provoking irresistible sexual
> urges in men.
But if you must... the unprovokable sexual urges were in humans, not in
Cylo... er, Oden Tal men. There're two separate issues: on the one
hand, Jihera's group is clearly on the right side in the Ko-removal
debate, which the episode assumes will be taken as a given by any
reasonable viewer. Their sexuality isn't a threat to anything in their
dimension except the oppressive social order. On the other hand,
they're species-ists who don't think that a few accidental human deaths
are enough of a deterrant to their tactics.
-AOQ
Arbitrar Of Quality
Opus the Penguin wrote:
> Ya know what? Once AOQ is done, I'm the next reviewer up. I'll watch
> through them all starting with Buffy season 1. But I won't give a
> newcomer's impressions. Instead, I'll review each show with the whole
> arc in mind while offering reminiscinces about my first impressions
> where those were different or interesting.
That'd be great. I was just going to do on-second-viewing
mini-reviews, but rewatching along wiht a new writer would be much
cooler.
-AOQ
Apteryx
Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later _Buffy_ and _Angel_
> episodes in these review threads
>
>
> started to put me in a bad mood. Let's laugh how lame our hero is at
> a party, ha ha.
Strange. At that point I thought I was going to like it.
>
> One-sentence summary: Succeeds through strength of vibe.
>
> AOQ rating: Good
This may be a new contender for most surprising rating yet. As I said
in my comments on Expecting, "with all the weaker Buffyverse episodes,
you just have to try to make the
most of what is there". But for me that is just so hard. Let's look at
what we have here:
1) Good looking women in skimpy costumes - so it's as good as a
lingerie ad
2) Angel dancing - so... good point
3) A 240 year old vampire finds cellphones difficult
4) For a while, Wesley's ineptness was a joke (at the party, and with
"Nancy's Petticoat"). But they just went on and on with it till they
had hammered it into the ground - such as the scene you mention where
he's ineptly hitting on the Cylon - until it became just another
weakness in an episode that already has too many.
For me it is the 103rd best AtS episode, 22nd (ie, last) in Season 1.
Although, unfortunately, there is another still to come which I rate
only fractionally above this, so it is within the bounds of possibility
if I downgrade that one just a little when I next watch it (if I watch
it again) that this season could end up with 2 worst episodes in my
ratings, just as I suggested earlier that it could end up with 2 best
episodes
Apteryx
Ken from Chicago
"Lord Usher" <lord_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns97BE1E994D...@216.40.28.70...
Being embarrassed at looking like a spaz could unleash something dark and
uncontrollable--especially with numerous people laughing at him.
-- Ken from Chicago
Slayah
> In many circles this is considered the all-time worst episode of any
> Mutant Enemy show, full stop. In my circle it's considered one of the
> low points of human civilization. :)
I turn it off after Angel dances.
Slayah
Maybe in his mind dancing like that represents dark and uncontrollable.
gree...@gmail.com
Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
> AOQ rating: Good
You know, I roll my eyes whenever you slight the wonder and grace that
is "Bewitched, Bothered, and Bewildered", astounded at the level of
wrongness you attained. But this... Good? This episode makes "Beer Bad"
seem like high art. This episode makes "Plan Nine From Outer Space"
seem well-thought out and finely crafted. This episode makes "Evita" a
preferable viewing option. Yes, even the one with Madonna. As Lord
Usher said, this episode may be the low point of civilization. Jryy,
jrer vg abg sbe frnfba sbhe.
On the other hand, hagvy frnfba sbhe, it's as bad as it gets.
Terry
Vanya6724
"She." Buffy could usually pull off stories with an overtly feminist
or PC message without getting too preachy, but whenever they try this
in S1 Angel the allegories are forced and way too obvious. Genocidal
Nazi demons in "Hero"? Casual sex is bad in "Expecting", and now these
painfully obvious symbols of female repression. I thought Angel was
pitched at an older audience than Buffy, but the writing seems to
assume a more juvenile viewer.
William George Ferguson
wrote:
>A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later _Buffy_ and _Angel_
>episodes in these review threads
>
>
>ANGEL
>Season One, Episode 13: "She"
>(or "Can you hear me now?")
>Writers: David Greenwalt and Marti Noxon
>Director: David Greenwalt
>
>I didn't think I was going to like this one at first. The teaser
>started to put me in a bad mood. Let's laugh how lame our hero is at
>a party, ha ha. But as the scene progressed I started to realize that
>there was a point to it (ah, yes, the traditional introducion of the
>episode's themes). Once in awhile Angel is forced into these
>situations that are just not his world at all, and he doesn't know
>how to handle them; I think anyone who has the same personality type as
>he does should be able to relate to that. And he doesn't want to be
>there and is just doing a favor to Cordelia by showing up, but as we
>find out later, he still manages to end up offending someone. It's
>funny because it's true. Also, notice the way our writers do the
>clownish fanficcy stuff like Angel dancing without damaging the
>character? Good. The fact that this scene features another cameo by
>Dennis helps sweeten the deal.
You didn't mention the Wesley half of the Dance Recital. I tend to think
at this point that the scene is a little lame (although it is a greatly
loved scene among Angel and Wesley fans (and Angel/Wesley fans)), but it is
saved, and actually funny, by being (the Angel part) in Angel's head "I
don't dance" is the punchline, the dance is just the setup. By the way,
Greenwalt put that scene in because Boreanaz does that stupid chicken dance
in real life.
>While we're talking about being able to relate to a bit of humor,
>anyone who's ever had bad phone reception distort their clever
>wordplay beyond recognition should appreciate the running joke with the
>cell phone. And one more nice gag I just wanted to mention:
>Cordelia's request to hold her, purely for reasons of physical
>support during a vision. Heh.
What really makes this funny is that Verizon was a major Angel sponser (in
fact Verizon did Angel specific commercials with the "Can you hear me now"
guy in standard Angel sets, including the heart-wrenching sewer)
>Jhiera isn't the show's greatest of creations; a demon who ~drives
>men wild!!~ with her mystic energies and ridiculous outfit.
The amazing thing is that for Bai Ling, that outfit was demure (she falls
out of less than that when she goes to premieres, and she goes to a lot of
premieres).
>One-sentence summary: Succeeds through strength of vibe.
>
>AOQ rating: Good
As you've no doubt figured out by now, "She" is the episode that about half
the people that told you there was an even worse episode than Expecting to
come were thinking of (you aren't off the hook yet, the other half of us
were thinking of another episode).
--
HERBERT
1996 - 1997
Beloved Mascot
Delightful Meal
He fed the Pack
A little
Don Sample
William George Ferguson <wmgf...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>
> You didn't mention the Wesley half of the Dance Recital. I tend to think
> at this point that the scene is a little lame (although it is a greatly
> loved scene among Angel and Wesley fans (and Angel/Wesley fans)), but it is
> saved, and actually funny, by being (the Angel part) in Angel's head "I
> don't dance" is the punchline, the dance is just the setup. By the way,
> Greenwalt put that scene in because Boreanaz does that stupid chicken dance
> in real life.
And there's an episode of "Bones" where he does it too.
--
Quando omni flunkus moritati
Visit the Buffy Body Count at <http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/>
Stephen Tempest
>As you've no doubt figured out by now, "She" is the episode that about half
>the people that told you there was an even worse episode than Expecting to
>come were thinking of (you aren't off the hook yet, the other half of us
>were thinking of another episode).
Which should reassure you that your tastes don't necessarily resemble
those of the a-t-bvs hivemind, and so you'll probably love the episode
hinted at here.
And hate the ones we all think are excellent. :)
Stephen
Wes <>
wrote:
>
>If only it hadn't simultaneously *validated* the misogynist arguments
>used to justify such barbarism, by postulating a race of females who
>actually *do* bear responsibility for provoking irresistible sexual
>urges in men.
Perhaps to say that:
1) if it were TRUE, it would be easily apparent to anyone who ever
encountered a female.
and/or
2) even IF it were true, mutilating a young girl is still WRONG, and
only one (bad) solution to the problem.
Wes
One Bit Shy
> "One Bit Shy" <O...@nomail.sorry> wrote in
> news:125vven...@news.supernews.com:
>
> > Wow. You ended up liking that a whole lot more than I did.
>
> Indeed. But as long as the episode didn't AOQ want to kill himself and
> everyone involved in its creation, he couldn't possibly have disliked it
> more than me. :)
>
> In many circles this is considered the all-time worst episode of any
> Mutant Enemy show, full stop. In my circle it's considered one of the
> low points of human civilization. :)
>
> Or, as I put it back in 2000:
>
> "Mere words are insufficient to describe how much I loathe this smug,
> shallow, trite, muddled, unsexy, horrible awful *terrible* episode. All
> the shortcomings, foolish indulgences, and lack of thought of which
> Buffyverse writers are occasionally guilty rolled into one great big
> ball of suck."
Why don't you tell us how you really feel? Heh.
Well, since I've already rated 2 BtVS episodes and I think one AtS
episode lower, this can't be my worst ever. Perhaps I should set some
time aside to wallow in some comparative awfulness to make a definitive
choice. That'll have to waith though. As I recall, there are no
future BtVS episodes rated so low. But I've still got over 4 seasons
of Angel to draw from that I haven't seen.
> > I think the intent was fine, but the execution was blah to me.
>
> Considering the particulars of the episode actually *contradicted* its
> obvious intent, I think that's putting it mildly. :)
I was speaking just of the party scene with that remark. Speaking of
the episode as a whole, no I don't think the intent was worthy
regardless of execution. It's a very weak concept.
> >> Jhiera isn't the show's greatest of creations; a demon who ~drives
> >> men wild!!~ with her mystic energies and ridiculous outfit. And I
> >> can't think of any interesting metaphors that can be drawn from the
> >> description of her society, just boring ones, so we're stuck with
> >> just the face-value stuff here.
> >
> > Female circumcision.
>
> Yes, at last an episode of ANGEL dared to take the controversial stand,
> "Female genital mutilation is bad."
But Tattoos are hot.
> If only it hadn't simultaneously *validated* the misogynist arguments
> used to justify such barbarism, by postulating a race of females who
> actually *do* bear responsibility for provoking irresistible sexual
> urges in men.
Not irresistable. The episode had a very clear message for men. Take
a cold shower.
OBS
JJ Karhu
<wmgf...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>On 8 May 2006 16:58:28 -0700, "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com>
>wrote:
>>Jhiera isn't the show's greatest of creations; a demon who ~drives
>>men wild!!~ with her mystic energies and ridiculous outfit.
>
>The amazing thing is that for Bai Ling, that outfit was demure (she falls
>out of less than that when she goes to premieres, and she goes to a lot of
>premieres).
http://www.asiansexgazette.com/asg/china/images/bai_ling_09.jpg
Krhm. Bai Ling raises the rating for this episode by one grade just on
her own.
I have the feeling that AoQ enjoyed this episode more than he would
have were the missus still watching these by his side ;)
// JJ -- I heartily approve.
Tammy Davis
<Review respectfully deleted>
> So...
>
> One-sentence summary: Succeeds through strength of vibe.
>
> AOQ rating: Good
Oooooh my.....this is going to be interesting.
I've been on the Angel newsgroup since the beginning and this may
already be apparent by the time this post appears, but "She" was not
exactly the most popular of episodes.... :)
Tammy Davis
> In article <k6d16216qi419anfm...@4ax.com>,
> William George Ferguson <wmgf...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>
>
>>You didn't mention the Wesley half of the Dance Recital. I tend to think
>>at this point that the scene is a little lame (although it is a greatly
>>loved scene among Angel and Wesley fans (and Angel/Wesley fans)), but it is
>>saved, and actually funny, by being (the Angel part) in Angel's head "I
>>don't dance" is the punchline, the dance is just the setup. By the way,
>>Greenwalt put that scene in because Boreanaz does that stupid chicken dance
>>in real life.
>
>
> And there's an episode of "Bones" where he does it too.
Oh really? Which one? I missed that episode.
Mel
I think it was the same episode Adam Baldwin guest-starred in.
Mel
Arbitrar Of Quality
Heh. Well, would it be too weird if I rated that one Excellent? As
I've learned from Dr. David Thorp of somethingawful.com, the key to
developing an aura of snobbery isn't just to hate good things and like
bad ones, it's to make one's tastes totally ineffible and
unpredictable.
-AOQ
~or maybe I'll even base my opinion on my actual opinion~
George W Harris
wrote:
:>The amazing thing is that for Bai Ling, that outfit was demure (she falls
:>out of less than that when she goes to premieres, and she goes to a lot of
:>premieres).
:
:http://www.asiansexgazette.com/asg/china/images/bai_ling_09.jpg
:
:Krhm. Bai Ling raises the rating for this episode by one grade just on
:her own.
It's strange. Bai Ling has pretty much a
laundry list of qualities I find attractive, and yet I
find her fairly unattractive.
--
"The truths of mathematics describe a bright and clear universe,
exquisite and beautiful in its structure, in comparison with
which the physical world is turbid and confused."
-Eulogy for G.H.Hardy
George W. Harris For actual email address, replace each 'u' with an 'i'
Mike Zeares
The series definitely benefits from rewatching. You've missed a lot of
little details as you've run through the episodes, details that you're
more likely to catch the next time around (back in the day, of course,
we had at least a week to obsessively rewatch each episode and debate
every tiny nuance, including the ones that existed entirely in our
minds).
I might return to an old ambition I had to do a fashion review of each
episode, with an emphasis towards the more horrific end of the fashion
spectrum. I could attach them to Opus's threads.
I will point out that, with 170 episodes to go, plus time off between
seasons, we're likely looking at January '07, unless you bail on either
or both series early.
-- Mike Zeares
KenM47
>This is the other AtS S1 ep that I never rewatch. Sometimes I do watch
>the Angel Dance scenes. But the A plot makes me want to shoot
>somebody.
>
>-- Mike Zeares
I'm not offended by the episode. It just did not move me.
It did annoy me that the males referred to the females as "It."
Decent (-)
Ken (Brooklyn)
Ken from Chicago
"KenM47" <Ken...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:m91862djahj818gjn...@4ax.com...
Obviously the extradimensional "demons" were really cylons v2.0!
-- Ken from Chicago
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later _Buffy_ and _Angel_
> episodes in these review threads
>
>
> ANGEL
> Season One, Episode 13: "She"
> (or "Can you hear me now?")
> Writers: David Greenwalt and Marti Noxon
> Director: David Greenwalt
> guy away... except that he takes off the coat. I don't know that no
> one would react at all if an art-history guru just went into a spiel
> out of nowhere, but I still thought it was a fun scene.
Angel pointing at the painting while watching the security guards searching for
him: ³On the left one spies the painter himself. In the middle distance is the
French poet and critic Baudelaire, a friend of the artist. Now, Baudelaire
interesting fellow. In his poem ŒLe Vampire¹ he wrote: ŒThou who abruptly as a
knife didst come into my heart.¹ - He, ah, strongly believed that evil forces
surrounded mankind. And some even speculated that the poem was about a real
vampire. (Laughs) Oh and, ah, Baudelaire was actually a little taller and a lot
drunker than he is depicted here."
in case youre interested
http://fleursdumal.org/poem/128
Le Vampire
Toi qui, comme un coup de couteau,
Dans mon coeur plaintif es entrée;
Toi qui, forte comme un troupeau
De démons, vins, folle et parée,
De mon esprit humilié
Faire ton lit et ton domaine;
‹ Infâme à qui je suis lié
Comme le forçat à la chaîne,
Comme au jeu le joueur têtu,
Comme à la bouteille l'ivrogne,
Comme aux vermines la charogne
‹ Maudite, maudite sois-tu!
J'ai prié le glaive rapide
De conquérir ma liberté,
Et j'ai dit au poison perfide
De secourir ma lâcheté.
Hélas! le poison et le glaive
M'ont pris en dédain et m'ont dit:
«Tu n'es pas digne qu'on t'enlève
À ton esclavage maudit,
Imbécile! ‹ de son empire
Si nos efforts te délivraient,
Tes baisers ressusciteraient
Le cadavre de ton vampire!»
‹ Charles Baudelaire
maybe a darla
arf meow arf - nsa fodder
ny dnrqn greebevfz ahpyrne obzo vena gnyvona ovt oebgure
if you meet buddha on the usenet killfile him