AOQ Angel Review 1-1: "City Of"
Arbitrar Of Quality
unless people object.
[I don't know whether my reputation has preceded me, but if anyone
here doesn't know me, hello. I'm the Arbitrar Of Quality, and yes,
I know that "arbitrar" isn't actually a word. For the last few
months I've been watching _Buffy The Vampire Slayer_ for the first
time, writing up my comments, and posting them over in
alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer. Well, now it's time to move on to the
spinoff.
The deal is, I watch each episode, and then write up a verbose review
full of observation, opinion, and speculation before moving on to the
next one. I don't read or consult anyone else's opinions until
after I've posted mine. This gig is first and foremost for my own
amusement, but many people have found that they enjoy living
vicariously through the newbie experiencing the show for the first
time. And for those who don't enjoy it, well, I'll try not to
flood the NG too much.
Like any good self-important 'net reviewer, I rate each episode,
based purely on the (subjective) bottom line; how much did I like
watching it, overall? I use a five-point scale, except that I like
words, so my ratings are "Excellent," "Good," "Decent,"
"Weak," and "Bad." (And "SUPERLATIVE" and
"ABOMINATION," but I use those only in the most extreme of extreme
circumstances, so they're hardly worth mentioning. A total of zero
episodes from the first three seasons of BTVS got either capitalized
rating.)
I've watched a total of five minutes of _Angel_ as of this moment
(yeah, I'm writing the intro ahead of time), so I come in with a
fresh slate. I don't know how much I'll like the series, so I
could end up seeming like a fanboy, a troll, or anything between;
that's part of the fun of this. Another one of the fun things is
that I for the most part don't know what's going to happen. I'd
like to keep it that way. So I courteously ask that anyone who wants
to respond to my reviews PLEASE AVOID SPOILERS FOR LATER EPISODES!
This also applies to _Buffy_, which I'm watching concurrently
(we've just started Season Four in a.t.b-v-s, newcomers are welcome).
Well, I'm looking forward to this. Onward and excelsior.]
ANGEL
Season One, Episode 1: "City Of"
(or "We're just too dark and offbeat to bother making our titles
complete phrases")
Writers: David Greenwalt and Joss Whedon
Director: Joss Whedon
A good intro is worth a thousand clichés. This being a Joss show, the
thing to do is play with expectations in some ways. And the teaser
here is a blast. We start with a melodramatic voiceover which lasts
just long enough to have us prepared to accept that AtS will use the
device of Angel narrating and musing about the nature of life and LA.
Then we cut to the incongruity of a drunken vampire talking about his
girl to anyone who'll listen. But as we soon suspect, he's just
using the drinks as an excuse to be where some predatory vamps are
about to strike. I like the stakes-up-the-sleeves trick. But then he
can't even give the standard reassuring words before fading into the
night, because, well, he's a demon too. Okay, I'm officially
engaged.
On first viewing, I like the theme song.
Doyle shows up to fill new viewers in on the backstory. This scene
does that as well as possible, basically self-consciously telling the
audience "yeah, we know this is a blob of exposition, but it's
important, okay?" And those who already know the premise are all
"ZOMG that clip's from _Buffy_!" As for the new character
himself, he seems to be trying to fill the niches of Plot Device,
Mysterious Stranger, and Comic Relief Wimp at once. But Glenn Quinn
brings the screen presence that the role demands (at least in this
episode), so I think he'll work. Anyway, he's also there to
trigger our plot by trying to get Angel to bring hope. And like every
TV version of LA I've ever seen, the city could use some.
The premise of Doyle's vision-lets provides a sorta-excuse for
Joss's MTV quick-cuts, but they get tiresome pretty quickly. Enough.
"Have you looked into a mirror lately? No, I guess you really
haven't." I smiled. Also, could anyone possibly imagine that
there's some kind of meta-meaning to the line about high school being
over? I'm getting the strange sense that the show is trying to
distinguish itself from something else.
Incongruity is again a big element when Angel meets up with Tina.
Angel is two hundred whatever years old (plus a few hundred in a hell
dimension), has faced down vampires and forces of darkness and so on,
and can wear all sorts of social masks in the line of duty, as seen in
the opening sequence. But when it comes down to actually dealing with
people he's painfully shy. It doesn't always check, so I'm
intentionally not thinking too hard about it, but I do think it makes
for pretty good TV. Due to the demands of the show, Angel and Tina are
able to establish a conversational rhythm based on that very
awkwardness. The object of his interest initially seems rather
stupidly trusting, but in the parking lot (and later, i.e. "I guess
this is the part where you 'comfort' me?") it turns out she's a
different character type; someone who's seen too much and can't
genuinely trust anyone. Even though it's always a distinct
possibility (not totally obvious, though) that she'll die, it's
still sad to see it happen. Structurally, she serves the role of the
one who dies to establish the danger to Cordelia, whom we (presumably)
care more about, but she also stands out as her own character.
I actually have an excuse to bring up _Deep Space Nine_ for once, since
Tracy Middendorf, who plays Tina, was previously best known (to me) as
the worst Ziyal. She was good here, though.
Angel rolling back and forth between the computers is quite funny,
though I don't think it's supposed to be.
Another nice touch: "He was here." Not true, she's safe with
Angel, but the viewer isn't certain of that. Given the Buffyverse,
someone who can project his spirit or something isn't so outlandish.
Like many one-off Buffy villains, Russell isn't just a fantasy
premise; the issue is that he's a rich guy who preys on aspiring
young women, the struggling actors that no one will miss. He's also
literally a monster, but that's almost beside the point.
After all the moody lighting leading up to it, the Hollywood party, as
initially seen through security cameras, pops out as something out of
another world, as presumably intended. For Buffy fans, it is good to
see a familiar face, even if it's Cordelia's. She's still vapid
enough that saying something like "I really should be talking to
people that are somebody" doesn't seem to register as an insult.
But as much as one may have disliked the character in the past, it's
still hard not to feel at least a little bad for her in her apartment,
living or dying by whether the phone rings. For some reason, I liked
the moments in which she puts together what's going on in Russell's
place. But is it just me, or is the cadence of Cordelia's dialogue
downright Buffy-ish at times? In particular, the "I'm from
Sunnydale!" part.
Someone doesn't like lawyers, I guess.
Boreanaz can deadpan like no one's business, so I guess it makes
sense to surround Angel with characters he can wryly react to. BTVS
humor is dry too, but this show will almost have to be more so.
The fight scenes are generally the same form as in BTVS, but there're
a few new ticks, like that weird spinning kick that Angel does.
The real Money Moment of the show, for me, is a great piece of
badassery towards the end. Our hero confronts the suave modern vampire
who has legal representation and such. It looks like Russell might be
a continued threat, but then Angel asks about flight skills. I was
grinning like a madman as soon as the words left his mouth. Exit
Russell. (One might ask how either vampire got to the building during
the day in the first place, but given that this didn't occur to me
until well afterward, not such a big deal.) As an action-hero-type
afterthought, Angel slips the business card back into the lawyer's
pocket. Heh. But we're not content to leave it at that: even in his
big moment of triumph, he (and most audience members) were clueless
about who the power behind the throne was.
And just when I think the show has established itself as its own
independent sub-world, we get to look in on the other end of the
one-sided phone conversation from "The Freshman." What can I say,
I'm a sucker for stuff like that.
"City Of" ends with Cordelia coming up with a fairly sensible way
to combine helping people with not living off star cookies. (Don't
ask me where Angel got the money to rent the place, or for his blood
supplies, or for the drinks at the beginning...) So we've got a
cast, a premise, some mysterious history, and a villain. Not bad for a
night's work.
This Is Really Stupid But I Laughed Anyway moment(s):
- Doyle's attempt to break through the gate
So...
One-sentence summary: I'm game.
AOQ rating: Good
[Season One so far:
1) "City Of" - Good]
Terry
news:1144511596.6...@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com:
> ANGEL
> Season One, Episode 1: "City Of"
> (or "We're just too dark and offbeat to bother making our titles
> complete phrases")
> Writers: David Greenwalt and Joss Whedon
> Director: Joss Whedon
YAY! Oh, this one's gonna be a fun ride, too. (That's not a spoiler, I'm
sure.) And some spoilers are harder than others to avoid. So, I'm going
to try to be very circumspect. I certainly hope everyone does the same.
> On first viewing, I like the theme song.
Love, love, love the theme song.
> As for the new character
> himself, he seems to be trying to fill the niches of Plot Device,
> Mysterious Stranger, and Comic Relief Wimp at once. But Glenn Quinn
> brings the screen presence that the role demands (at least in this
> episode), so I think he'll work. Anyway, he's also there to
> trigger our plot by trying to get Angel to bring hope. And like every
> TV version of LA I've ever seen, the city could use some.
I'm just leaving this alone. I can't comment. Without ROT13, and I'm not
ready.
> Someone doesn't like lawyers, I guess.
Hee!
> The real Money Moment of the show, for me, is a great piece of
> badassery towards the end.
Love that particular badassery. "Can you fly?" Hee!
> One-sentence summary: I'm game.
Welcome, my son. Enjoy your stay!
Terry
KenM47
<SNIP INTRO>
>
>
>ANGEL
>Season One, Episode 1: "City Of"
>(or "We're just too dark and offbeat to bother making our titles
>complete phrases")
>Writers: David Greenwalt and Joss Whedon
>Director: Joss Whedon
>
>A good intro is worth a thousand clichés. This being a Joss show, the
>thing to do is play with expectations in some ways. And the teaser
>here is a blast. We start with a melodramatic voiceover which lasts
>just long enough to have us prepared to accept that AtS will use the
>device of Angel narrating and musing about the nature of life and LA.
>Then we cut to the incongruity of a drunken vampire talking about his
>girl to anyone who'll listen. But as we soon suspect, he's just
>using the drinks as an excuse to be where some predatory vamps are
>about to strike. I like the stakes-up-the-sleeves trick. But then he
>can't even give the standard reassuring words before fading into the
>night, because, well, he's a demon too. Okay, I'm officially
>engaged.
Yes. Set the scene nicely and efficiently.
>
>On first viewing, I like the theme song.
Me too. There is that little problem, recently noted in some of the
separate spoiler posts or those here that use ROT13 so AOQ can safely
look upon them without being spoiled, that his reflection is in the
puddle he walks over in the opening credits. You can fanwank that it's
more shadow than reflection, but .....
>
>Doyle shows up to fill new viewers in on the backstory. This scene
>does that as well as possible, basically self-consciously telling the
>audience "yeah, we know this is a blob of exposition, but it's
>important, okay?" And those who already know the premise are all
>"ZOMG that clip's from _Buffy_!" As for the new character
>himself, he seems to be trying to fill the niches of Plot Device,
>Mysterious Stranger, and Comic Relief Wimp at once. But Glenn Quinn
>brings the screen presence that the role demands (at least in this
>episode), so I think he'll work. Anyway, he's also there to
>trigger our plot by trying to get Angel to bring hope. And like every
>TV version of LA I've ever seen, the city could use some.
IIRC, Doyle was supposed to be Whistler from Becoming, but that actor,
Max Perlich, had some drug issues, I think that was the story, so Joss
apparently reached back to his Roseanne days and Quinn got the part.
>
<SNIP>
>The object of his interest initially seems rather
>stupidly trusting, but in the parking lot (and later, i.e. "I guess
>this is the part where you 'comfort' me?") it turns out she's a
>different character type; someone who's seen too much and can't
>genuinely trust anyone. Even though it's always a distinct
>possibility (not totally obvious, though) that she'll die, it's
>still sad to see it happen. Structurally, she serves the role of the
>one who dies to establish the danger to Cordelia, whom we (presumably)
>care more about, but she also stands out as her own character.
Well, Angel blows his first case. Nice twist as twists go. Of course
we were not invested in her as we were with Cordelia. The opening
credits spoil the Cordelia in danger a bit since we saw moments than
we had not seen in the show, so we kind of know she, unlike say Jenny,
will survive the ordeal.
>
>I actually have an excuse to bring up _Deep Space Nine_ for once, since
>Tracy Middendorf, who plays Tina, was previously best known (to me) as
>the worst Ziyal. She was good here, though.
>
>Angel rolling back and forth between the computers is quite funny,
>though I don't think it's supposed to be.
Nice tech touch in the "batcave" then, considering the technology
available to most of the audience.
>
>Another nice touch: "He was here." Not true, she's safe with
>Angel, but the viewer isn't certain of that. Given the Buffyverse,
>someone who can project his spirit or something isn't so outlandish.
>Like many one-off Buffy villains, Russell isn't just a fantasy
>premise; the issue is that he's a rich guy who preys on aspiring
>young women, the struggling actors that no one will miss. He's also
>literally a monster, but that's almost beside the point.
He's also another old one since he gets all weird colored when he
vamps out. He's also the richest vamp we've seen, or at least the
most into conspicuous consumption.
>
>After all the moody lighting leading up to it, the Hollywood party, as
>initially seen through security cameras, pops out as something out of
>another world, as presumably intended. For Buffy fans, it is good to
>see a familiar face, even if it's Cordelia's. She's still vapid
>enough that saying something like "I really should be talking to
>people that are somebody" doesn't seem to register as an insult.
>But as much as one may have disliked the character in the past, it's
>still hard not to feel at least a little bad for her in her apartment,
>living or dying by whether the phone rings. For some reason, I liked
>the moments in which she puts together what's going on in Russell's
>place. But is it just me, or is the cadence of Cordelia's dialogue
>downright Buffy-ish at times? In particular, the "I'm from
>Sunnydale!" part.
More Sunnydale-ish dialect than particular female IMO.
>
>Someone doesn't like lawyers, I guess.
In America, few that seem to like them. Catch the name of the law
firm? Wolfram & Hart?
>
>Boreanaz can deadpan like no one's business, so I guess it makes
>sense to surround Angel with characters he can wryly react to. BTVS
>humor is dry too, but this show will almost have to be more so.
DB did a nice job generally on his own show, minimalist reactions and
all. You get the "big" stuff from Doyle and Cordy.
>
>The fight scenes are generally the same form as in BTVS, but there're
>a few new ticks, like that weird spinning kick that Angel does.
>
>The real Money Moment of the show, for me, is a great piece of
>badassery towards the end. Our hero confronts the suave modern vampire
>who has legal representation and such. It looks like Russell might be
>a continued threat, but then Angel asks about flight skills. I was
>grinning like a madman as soon as the words left his mouth.
Yes. A very satisfying moment. Angel will not play cat and mouse when
he has a direct approach available.
>Exit
>Russell. (One might ask how either vampire got to the building during
>the day in the first place, but given that this didn't occur to me
>until well afterward, not such a big deal.)
Earlier scene of Angel walking through the sewers. And we know that if
properly shielded from direct rays of sunlight BtVS/AtS vamps can get
from A to B outside if they hurry.
>As an action-hero-type
>afterthought, Angel slips the business card back into the lawyer's
>pocket. Heh. But we're not content to leave it at that: even in his
>big moment of triumph, he (and most audience members) were clueless
>about who the power behind the throne was.
>
>And just when I think the show has established itself as its own
>independent sub-world, we get to look in on the other end of the
>one-sided phone conversation from "The Freshman." What can I say,
>I'm a sucker for stuff like that.
Another excellent touch. I believe like most of the remaining BtVS run
on the WB, new Angel episodes, including this one, immediately aired
after BtVS on Tuesday nights, and 8 to 10 NYC time, block. This one
immediately followed The Freshman
>
>"City Of" ends with Cordelia coming up with a fairly sensible way
>to combine helping people with not living off star cookies. (Don't
>ask me where Angel got the money to rent the place, or for his blood
>supplies, or for the drinks at the beginning...) So we've got a
>cast, a premise, some mysterious history, and a villain. Not bad for a
>night's work.
He's been around for 240 years. He had nice stuff in his apartment in
Sunnydale before he moved to the mansion. He's got some resources,
just not heavy into making money like say Russell was.
>
>This Is Really Stupid But I Laughed Anyway moment(s):
>- Doyle's attempt to break through the gate
>
Another nice way of dealing with audience expectations.
>
>So...
>
>One-sentence summary: I'm game.
>
>AOQ rating: Good
>
>[Season One so far:
>1) "City Of" - Good]
Good it is.
Ken (Brooklyn)
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
>
> Love, love, love the theme song.
though sometimes it seems like a forever knight influence
arf meow arf - nsa fodder
al qaeda terrorism nuclear bomb iran taliban big brother
if you meet buddha on the usenet killfile him
BTR1701
KenM47 <Ken...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> IIRC, Doyle was supposed to be Whistler from Becoming, but that actor,
> Max Perlich, had some drug issues, I think that was the story, so Joss
> apparently reached back to his Roseanne days and Quinn got the part.
Bu, gur vebal...
> Another excellent touch. I believe like most of the remaining BtVS run
> on the WB, new Angel episodes, including this one, immediately aired
> after BtVS on Tuesday nights, and 8 to 10 NYC time, block. This one
> immediately followed The Freshman
Those were some good days... a fresh two-hour block every Tuesday night.
eli...@gmail.com
Glad you like it though. First time reviews are my crack and you're
feeding my habit wonderfully!
Stephen Tempest
>On first viewing, I like the theme song.
Did you notice that one of the short clips in the title sequence was
actually from _Buffy_? It's the woman standing beside the road, from
B3.01 'Anne'. (Which was set in LA after all, so it's appropriate).
>Doyle shows up to fill new viewers in on the backstory. This scene
>does that as well as possible, basically self-consciously telling the
>audience "yeah, we know this is a blob of exposition, but it's
>important, okay?"
"You've just told me the story of my life which, since I was there, I
already knew" is a classic line...
>But as much as one may have disliked the character in the past, it's
>still hard not to feel at least a little bad for her in her apartment,
>living or dying by whether the phone rings.
Apparently, according to the script, she was eating nuts in the
limousine on her way to Winters' home. Watching it, I was convinced
she was taking pills...
>This Is Really Stupid But I Laughed Anyway moment(s):
>- Doyle's attempt to break through the gate
How about Angel jumping dramatically into the wrong car?
Stephen
One Bit Shy
news:1144511596.6...@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
> [I don't know whether my reputation has preceded me, but if anyone
> here doesn't know me,...
For those who care about such things, this is also my first time through
Angel. As far as I know I've never seen a minute of it.
> A good intro is worth a thousand clichés. This being a Joss show, the
> thing to do is play with expectations in some ways. And the teaser
> here is a blast. We start with a melodramatic voiceover which lasts
> just long enough to have us prepared to accept that AtS will use the
> device of Angel narrating and musing about the nature of life and LA.
> Then we cut to the incongruity of a drunken vampire talking about his
> girl to anyone who'll listen. But as we soon suspect, he's just
> using the drinks as an excuse to be where some predatory vamps are
> about to strike. I like the stakes-up-the-sleeves trick. But then he
> can't even give the standard reassuring words before fading into the
> night, because, well, he's a demon too. Okay, I'm officially
> engaged.
I really like the moment where Angel drunkenly says, "Girls are nice," (so
dopey!) followed quickly by turn to stone face, some cool rising music, and
slo-mo stride out of the bar. Very nicely done. Won me over.
The first fight not so much. The stakes up the sleeves gadget didn't work
for me. But mainly it was the weird vamp faces. (Which went especially
over the top later with Russell.) I guess they wanted to go more extreme
than Buffy, but it looks too comic book like for my tastes.
> On first viewing, I like the theme song.
I'm not used to it yet. I hope it will grow on me. The background music in
general, however, was fantastic. Very mood enhancing with quirky bits.
Definitely an episode for the volume to be turned up.
> Doyle shows up to fill new viewers in on the backstory. This scene
> does that as well as possible, basically self-consciously telling the
> audience "yeah, we know this is a blob of exposition, but it's
> important, okay?" And those who already know the premise are all
> "ZOMG that clip's from _Buffy_!"
Didn't like it, but don't care. Presumably it's not something to be
repeated often.
But I'm curious, could anyone who hadn't already been a Buffy fan actually
understand the back story from that? (Or, for that matter, did anyone who
wasn't a Buffy fan actually watch the episode?)
> As for the new character
> himself, he seems to be trying to fill the niches of Plot Device,
> Mysterious Stranger, and Comic Relief Wimp at once. But Glenn Quinn
> brings the screen presence that the role demands (at least in this
> episode), so I think he'll work.
I guess he's kind of the follow-up to Whistler, though Whistler seemed a lot
more interesting to me. My first impression of Doyle isn't very good. I
hope he fleshes out. Vaguely seemy and lacking in culture isn't a lot to go
on. Don't care for the accent either. Not because it's so bad, but because
it's characterless. Seems like an accent for the sake of an accent. We'll
see. It's early yet.
> The premise of Doyle's vision-lets provides a sorta-excuse for
> Joss's MTV quick-cuts, but they get tiresome pretty quickly. Enough.
I don't know about that yet. It's a device that does help give the show a
different feel. And some of the images are quite interesting - even
beautiful. But it a gets a tad disorienting sometimes too. And a few of
the cuts came across like abrupt burps. Maybe they'll get better at it with
practice.
>Also, could anyone possibly imagine that
> there's some kind of meta-meaning to the line about high school being
> over? I'm getting the strange sense that the show is trying to
> distinguish itself from something else.
Aren't you being droll today.
> Incongruity is again a big element when Angel meets up with Tina.
> Angel is two hundred whatever years old (plus a few hundred in a hell
> dimension), has faced down vampires and forces of darkness and so on,
> and can wear all sorts of social masks in the line of duty, as seen in
> the opening sequence. But when it comes down to actually dealing with
> people he's painfully shy. It doesn't always check, so I'm
> intentionally not thinking too hard about it, but I do think it makes
> for pretty good TV. Due to the demands of the show, Angel and Tina are
> able to establish a conversational rhythm based on that very
> awkwardness.
I like their first scene together a lot. I think it goes a long way to
establishing Angel's manner. I haven't really been a big Angel fan in the
past, but his social awkwardness really can be endearing.
Oh, first thing I thought of when I saw Tina was - blonde. Angel isn't
going to get Buffy of his mind quickly is he?
> The object of his interest initially seems rather
> stupidly trusting, but in the parking lot (and later, i.e. "I guess
> this is the part where you 'comfort' me?") it turns out she's a
> different character type; someone who's seen too much and can't
> genuinely trust anyone.
I was kind of put off when Tina so readily invited Angel to meet her after
work, but when she showed up with pepper spray I guessed that showed me.
I was struck by how cynical Tina was - and some other places in the episode
were kind of cynical too. I wonder if that'll be on ongoing characteristic
of the show. By itself I hope not. But as tension with Angel's
representation of hope it might be interesting.
> Even though it's always a distinct
> possibility (not totally obvious, though) that she'll die, it's
> still sad to see it happen. Structurally, she serves the role of the
> one who dies to establish the danger to Cordelia, whom we (presumably)
> care more about, but she also stands out as her own character.
Considering Joss's past history of using season openers to somehow represent
the season to come I'm guessing Tina represents something more. But I don't
know what.
> Angel rolling back and forth between the computers is quite funny,
> though I don't think it's supposed to be.
When did Angel become a geek?
> After all the moody lighting leading up to it, the Hollywood party, as
> initially seen through security cameras, pops out as something out of
> another world, as presumably intended.
I laughed a lot a the scene with Oliver.
Oliver: You're a beautiful, beautiful man.
Angel: Thanks
Oliver: You're an actor.
Angel: No
Oliver: That wasn't a question.
> For Buffy fans, it is good to
> see a familiar face, even if it's Cordelia's. She's still vapid
> enough that saying something like "I really should be talking to
> people that are somebody" doesn't seem to register as an insult.
> But as much as one may have disliked the character in the past, it's
> still hard not to feel at least a little bad for her in her apartment,
> living or dying by whether the phone rings. For some reason, I liked
> the moments in which she puts together what's going on in Russell's
> place. But is it just me, or is the cadence of Cordelia's dialogue
> downright Buffy-ish at times? In particular, the "I'm from
> Sunnydale!" part.
The Cordy scenes were my favorites of the episode.
The sad reveal of her being stuck in a slum apartment. Eating the food she
stole from the party. Poor Cordelia.
Then sitting on her bed intoning, "I am somebody." What a hoot.
And her wonderful confrontation with Russell.
Cordelia: Hey, you're a vampire!
Russell: What? No I'm not.
Cordelia: Are too.
Russell: I don't know what you're talking about.
Cordelia: I'm from Sunnydale. We had our own hellmouth. I think I know a
vampire when I...
And, yes, I thought she did get a bit Buffy-ish at times. "I better get
mingly."
> Someone doesn't like lawyers, I guess.
Wolfram & Hart is a nice concept. Not a whole lot to go on in the first
episode, but it shows promise. I do hope a better job is done with them
than with the Watchers Council.
> The fight scenes are generally the same form as in BTVS, but there're
> a few new ticks, like that weird spinning kick that Angel does.
Did you notice the Batman moment when he jumped off the roof?
> This Is Really Stupid But I Laughed Anyway moment(s):
> - Doyle's attempt to break through the gate
I've got to admit, I roared when Angel jumped into the wrong car. Mainly
because I started to groan when I saw he was going to do such a ridiculous
stunt. You got me, Joss.
And Doyle's, "She's a stiffener alright." A stiffener?? LOL
> So...
> One-sentence summary: I'm game.
> AOQ rating: Good
Yes, I agree. The first story was a bit ordinary, but the episode was more
about setup, which I think it handled with flair.
OBS
KenM47
>In article <4snf321rdteut253o...@4ax.com>,
> KenM47 <Ken...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>> IIRC, Doyle was supposed to be Whistler from Becoming, but that actor,
>> Max Perlich, had some drug issues, I think that was the story, so Joss
>> apparently reached back to his Roseanne days and Quinn got the part.
>
>Bu, gur vebal...
Indeed
>
>> Another excellent touch. I believe like most of the remaining BtVS run
>> on the WB, new Angel episodes, including this one, immediately aired
>> after BtVS on Tuesday nights, and 8 to 10 NYC time, block. This one
>> immediately followed The Freshman
>
>Those were some good days... a fresh two-hour block every Tuesday night.
Yes. I have nostalgia for Tuesday nights and the stupid frog.
Ken (Brooklyn)
Mike Zeares
Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
>
> A good intro is worth a thousand clichés. This being a Joss show, the
> thing to do is play with expectations in some ways. And the teaser
There were a lot of cool shots in that opening. Very Dark Knight-ish.
> On first viewing, I like the theme song.
I've come to like it more than the BTVS theme. I usually skip the
opening Buffy titles, but I always listen to the Angel theme. And
seat-bop along with it. It just has a catchy beat.
>
> The premise of Doyle's vision-lets provides a sorta-excuse for
> Joss's MTV quick-cuts, but they get tiresome pretty quickly. Enough.
Are you talking about the quick time-lapse shots between scenes? Blame
editor Regis Kimble. He used those cuts in the 6-minute presentation
that Joss and David made, and they liked them so much that it became a
signature for the show.
> "Have you looked into a mirror lately? No, I guess you really
> haven't." I smiled. Also, could anyone possibly imagine that
> there's some kind of meta-meaning to the line about high school being
> over? I'm getting the strange sense that the show is trying to
> distinguish itself from something else.
Yeah, and who's this "girl" they keep referring to?
> I actually have an excuse to bring up _Deep Space Nine_ for once, since
> Tracy Middendorf, who plays Tina, was previously best known (to me) as
> the worst Ziyal. She was good here, though.
Whedon and Greenwalt praised her in their commentary. They said
there's a saddness in her eyes that lets her play both the ingenue and
someone who's seen too much.
The fact that the first two people we see Angel saving (or trying to)
were blondes was not lost on the audience.
> Another nice touch: "He was here." Not true, she's safe with
> Angel, but the viewer isn't certain of that. Given the Buffyverse,
> someone who can project his spirit or something isn't so outlandish.
> Like many one-off Buffy villains, Russell isn't just a fantasy
> premise; the issue is that he's a rich guy who preys on aspiring
> young women, the struggling actors that no one will miss. He's also
> literally a monster, but that's almost beside the point.
Joss and David taking advantage of the L.A. setting. There are
"Russells" everywhere, of course, but the character type is such a
staple of L.A. stories that it would be noticible if Joss didn't use
it. Same thing with the Hollywood party. The city itself is a
character.
> The real Money Moment of the show, for me, is a great piece of
> badassery towards the end. Our hero confronts the suave modern vampire
> who has legal representation and such. It looks like Russell might be
> a continued threat, but then Angel asks about flight skills. I was
> grinning like a madman as soon as the words left his mouth. Exit
> Russell.
Compare and contrast "Darn." [kick] [FOOM] from "The Train Job."
> And just when I think the show has established itself as its own
> independent sub-world, we get to look in on the other end of the
> one-sided phone conversation from "The Freshman." What can I say,
> I'm a sucker for stuff like that.
Who was he calling? Is there some girl he left behind somewhere?
>
> "City Of" ends with Cordelia coming up with a fairly sensible way
> to combine helping people with not living off star cookies. (Don't
> ask me where Angel got the money to rent the place, or for his blood
> supplies, or for the drinks at the beginning...)
Kind of like Giles. Both shows just kind of ignore such concerns.
> So we've got a
> cast, a premise, some mysterious history, and a villain. Not bad for a
> night's work.
The exposition dump, although necessary for new viewers, is a bit of a
chore. But the episode works as both a series intro and as a
self-contained story. And thus began our 2-hour block of Jossery
goodness on Tuesday nights.
-- Mike Zeares
Don Sample
>
> IIRC, Doyle was supposed to be Whistler from Becoming, but that actor,
> Max Perlich, had some drug issues, I think that was the story, so Joss
> apparently reached back to his Roseanne days and Quinn got the part.
And there were all the complaints about his "terrible fake Irish accent"
from people who were unaware that Glenn Quinn was Irish.
(Must have been the same people who complained about Faith's "terrible
fake Boston accent" who were unaware that Eliza Dushku was from Boston.)
--
Quando omni flunkus moritati
Visit the Buffy Body Count at <http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/>
KenM47
>"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in message
>news:1144511596.6...@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
>
>
<SNIP>
>
>But I'm curious, could anyone who hadn't already been a Buffy fan actually
>understand the back story from that? (Or, for that matter, did anyone who
>wasn't a Buffy fan actually watch the episode?)
I think for we Buffy fans, we didn't give a crap. Angel was another
hour of the Buffy-verse, and we couldn't get enough.
>
>I guess he's kind of the follow-up to Whistler, though Whistler seemed a lot
>more interesting to me. My first impression of Doyle isn't very good. I
>hope he fleshes out. Vaguely seemy and lacking in culture isn't a lot to go
>on. Don't care for the accent either. Not because it's so bad, but because
>it's characterless. Seems like an accent for the sake of an accent. We'll
>see. It's early yet.
I think Quinn had the bona fides for the accent.
>
>
>> The premise of Doyle's vision-lets provides a sorta-excuse for
>> Joss's MTV quick-cuts, but they get tiresome pretty quickly. Enough.
>
>I don't know about that yet. It's a device that does help give the show a
>different feel. And some of the images are quite interesting - even
>beautiful. But it a gets a tad disorienting sometimes too. And a few of
>the cuts came across like abrupt burps. Maybe they'll get better at it with
>practice.
At some point, people started single framing through the blitz cuts
only to find, at times, what looked like outtakes like folks blowing a
line or breaking up.
>
>
<SNIP>
>
>I was struck by how cynical Tina was - and some other places in the episode
>were kind of cynical too. I wonder if that'll be on ongoing characteristic
>of the show. By itself I hope not. But as tension with Angel's
>representation of hope it might be interesting.
We are talking big urban city vs little suburb.
>
>
>> Angel rolling back and forth between the computers is quite funny,
>> though I don't think it's supposed to be.
>
>When did Angel become a geek?
When he had to.
>
>
<MORE SNIP>
>
>> The fight scenes are generally the same form as in BTVS, but there're
>> a few new ticks, like that weird spinning kick that Angel does.
>
>Did you notice the Batman moment when he jumped off the roof?
Or the scanning the city from the roof just before that.
>
>
>> This Is Really Stupid But I Laughed Anyway moment(s):
>> - Doyle's attempt to break through the gate
>
>I've got to admit, I roared when Angel jumped into the wrong car. Mainly
>because I started to groan when I saw he was going to do such a ridiculous
>stunt. You got me, Joss.
>
>And Doyle's, "She's a stiffener alright." A stiffener?? LOL
You know, I never caught what Doyle said there. This is paying off
already.
>
>> So...
>
>> One-sentence summary: I'm game.
>
>> AOQ rating: Good
>
>Yes, I agree. The first story was a bit ordinary, but the episode was more
>about setup, which I think it handled with flair.
>
>OBS
>
Ken (Brooklyn)
eli...@gmail.com
>see. It's early yet.
One Bit Shy
news:l0uf329aqfb3no049...@4ax.com...
> "One Bit Shy" <O...@nomail.sorry> wrote:
>>I guess he's kind of the follow-up to Whistler, though Whistler seemed a
>>lot
>>more interesting to me. My first impression of Doyle isn't very good. I
>>hope he fleshes out. Vaguely seemy and lacking in culture isn't a lot to
>>go
>>on. Don't care for the accent either. Not because it's so bad, but
>>because
>>it's characterless. Seems like an accent for the sake of an accent.
>>We'll
>>see. It's early yet.
>
> I think Quinn had the bona fides for the accent.
Evidently. Maybe that's why it seemed so ordinary to me. That would be
ironic I guess.
BTR1701
Don Sample <dsa...@synapse.net> wrote:
> In article <4snf321rdteut253o...@4ax.com>,
> KenM47 <Ken...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > IIRC, Doyle was supposed to be Whistler from Becoming, but that actor,
> > Max Perlich, had some drug issues, I think that was the story, so Joss
> > apparently reached back to his Roseanne days and Quinn got the part.
>
> And there were all the complaints about his "terrible fake Irish accent"
> from people who were unaware that Glenn Quinn was Irish.
>
> (Must have been the same people who complained about Faith's "terrible
> fake Boston accent" who were unaware that Eliza Dushku was from Boston.)
And the people who complain about Emilie de Ravin's "horrible Australian
accent" on LOST. Same deal.
BTR1701
"Mike Zeares" <mze...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
> > "City Of" ends with Cordelia coming up with a fairly sensible way
> > to combine helping people with not living off star cookies. (Don't
> > ask me where Angel got the money to rent the place, or for his blood
> > supplies, or for the drinks at the beginning...)
>
> Kind of like Giles. Both shows just kind of ignore such concerns.
Jryy, guvf fubj qbrfa'g vtaber vg. Vg'f whfg abg rkcynvarq sbe n juvyr.
chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu
> ANGEL
> Season One, Episode 1: "City Of"
> (or "We're just too dark and offbeat to bother making our titles
> complete phrases")
> Writers: David Greenwalt and Joss Whedon
> Director: Joss Whedon
> A good intro is worth a thousand clich?s. This being a Joss show, the
> thing to do is play with expectations in some ways. And the teaser
> here is a blast.
I "me too" your praise for the teaser. I love the way the voiceover turns
into Angel's slightly overdone barstool ruminations, which in turn prove
to be an act to get close to the suspected vamps, and the way he can't
deal with the victims while in vamp face himself. In other words, all the
things you already mentioned. The trick stakes didn't thrill me, but I
did love the closeup focus, from Angel's POV, on the blood on the girl's
face, reminding us of that literal bloodlust he's always struggling to
keep under control.
> On first viewing, I like the theme song.
A great, evocative tune, and also very distinct from the Buffy theme.
It's performed by a group called Darling Violetta, who just happen to be
the band on stage at the Bronze in Faith, Hope and Trick. I guess Joss
liked them.
Re: the opening credits, I like the way each cast member gets their own
color theme. After watching the episodes via antenna or a crappy cable
connection, I wept with joy when I first got the DVDs and saw all these
colors in their full richness. (Okay, I didn't really weep, but it did
make me happy.) I also love the way the clip of Angel kicking in the door
is synched to the music. Notice that the credits have a different look
from Buffy's, but a similar structure: title, clips, cast members with
their own clips, more general clips, group shot of cast, solo shot of
title character. But while the last shot of Buffy always showed her
facing the camera, here we see Angel striding moodily away.
> Doyle shows up to fill new viewers in on the backstory. This scene
> does that as well as possible, basically self-consciously telling the
> audience "yeah, we know this is a blob of exposition, but it's
> important, okay?"
Odd that Doyle doesn't mention their shared Irishness. Two things
bothered me slightly in this scene. First, Angel's comment that Doyle
doesn't smell human: if Doyle is half-human, wouldn't he smell a little
human too? And second, Doyle's pointing out that he isn't a vampire
because he could enter without permission: since Angel isn't human,
*anyone* can waltz into his home, even other vamps.
> And those who already know the premise are all
> "ZOMG that clip's from _Buffy_!"
I've seen this once or twice in AOQ threads. What the heck does ZOMG
stand for? "Zebras! Oh my God!" might be appropriate in some situations,
but it doesn't seem to fit here.
> trigger our plot by trying to get Angel to bring hope. And like every
> TV version of LA I've ever seen, the city could use some.
I've never actually been to LA, so my image of the city is shaped mainly
by Angel and The Shield, with a little Boogie Nights thrown in.
> The premise of Doyle's vision-lets provides a sorta-excuse for
> Joss's MTV quick-cuts, but they get tiresome pretty quickly. Enough.
I always liked those quick cuts. They give the series its own unique
look, and in the visions they convey something of the disorientation that
the visionee must feel.
> another world, as presumably intended. For Buffy fans, it is good to
> see a familiar face, even if it's Cordelia's. She's still vapid
> enough that saying something like "I really should be talking to
> people that are somebody" doesn't seem to register as an insult.
"It's nice to see she's grown as a person."
> living or dying by whether the phone rings. For some reason, I liked
> the moments in which she puts together what's going on in Russell's
> place.
I love how Cordelia suddenly accuses him of being a vampire and Russell,
surprised and unprepared for this, can't muster a better reply than "What?
No, I'm not." Always cracks me up.
> But is it just me, or is the cadence of Cordelia's dialogue
> downright Buffy-ish at times? In particular, the "I'm from
> Sunnydale!" part.
Just think of it as her Sunnydale accent.
> Boreanaz can deadpan like no one's business, so I guess it makes
> sense to surround Angel with characters he can wryly react to. BTVS
> humor is dry too, but this show will almost have to be more so.
I think this episode shows how much progress DB has made as an actor.
Frankly, in BTVS season 1, he was fairly weak. I think he really started
to seriously improve once he became Angelus, then kept improving at a
slower rate in season 3. Now, on his own show, he's quite good. In a
broody sort of way.
> And just when I think the show has established itself as its own
> independent sub-world, we get to look in on the other end of the
> one-sided phone conversation from "The Freshman." What can I say,
> I'm a sucker for stuff like that.
Me too! I hope there's more....
--Chris
______________________________________________________________________
chrisg [at] gwu.edu On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog.
Don Sample
"One Bit Shy" <O...@nomail.sorry> wrote:
> The first fight not so much. The stakes up the sleeves gadget didn't work
> for me. But mainly it was the weird vamp faces. (Which went especially
> over the top later with Russell.) I guess they wanted to go more extreme
> than Buffy, but it looks too comic book like for my tastes.
I think it was more a case of having new makeup people, who didn't quite
know how to do it "right." They brought over some of the Buffy makeup
artists to teach them after the first episode was done.
Don Sample
BTR1701 <btr...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
Hu? Jura qb gurl rire trg nebhaq gb rkcynvavat ubj Natry pbhyq nssbeq
gung cynpr, be uvf pne, be uvf cynpr va Fhaalqnyr, be ohl n jubyr
ubgry...
BTR1701
Don Sample <dsa...@synapse.net> wrote:
> In article <btr1702-6F364B...@news.giganews.com>,
> BTR1701 <btr...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> > In article <1144518809.1...@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
> > "Mike Zeares" <mze...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
> >
> > > > "City Of" ends with Cordelia coming up with a fairly sensible way
> > > > to combine helping people with not living off star cookies. (Don't
> > > > ask me where Angel got the money to rent the place, or for his blood
> > > > supplies, or for the drinks at the beginning...)
> > >
> > > Kind of like Giles. Both shows just kind of ignore such concerns.
> >
> > Jryy, guvf fubj qbrfa'g vtaber vg. Vg'f whfg abg rkcynvarq sbe n juvyr.
>
> Hu? Jura qb gurl rire trg nebhaq gb rkcynvavat ubj Natry pbhyq nssbeq
> gung cynpr, be uvf pne, be uvf cynpr va Fhaalqnyr, be ohl n jubyr
> ubgry...
Ner Lbh Abj be Unir Lbh Rire OrraŠ?
Don Sample
BTR1701 <btr...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> In article <dsample-974884...@news.giganews.com>,
> Don Sample <dsa...@synapse.net> wrote:
>
> > In article <btr1702-6F364B...@news.giganews.com>,
> > BTR1701 <btr...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> >
> > > In article <1144518809.1...@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
> > > "Mike Zeares" <mze...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
> > >
> > > > > "City Of" ends with Cordelia coming up with a fairly sensible way
> > > > > to combine helping people with not living off star cookies. (Don't
> > > > > ask me where Angel got the money to rent the place, or for his blood
> > > > > supplies, or for the drinks at the beginning...)
> > > >
> > > > Kind of like Giles. Both shows just kind of ignore such concerns.
> > >
> > > Jryy, guvf fubj qbrfa'g vtaber vg. Vg'f whfg abg rkcynvarq sbe n juvyr.
> >
> > Hu? Jura qb gurl rire trg nebhaq gb rkcynvavat ubj Natry pbhyq nssbeq
> > gung cynpr, be uvf pne, be uvf cynpr va Fhaalqnyr, be ohl n jubyr
> > ubgry...
>
> Ner Lbh Abj be Unir Lbh Rire OrraŠ?
Gung jnf jung, svsgl tenaq gung ur unq fgnfurq njnl, naq arire gbhpurq
va gur arkg svsgl lrnef. Rira vs ur unq hfrq vg, vg jbhyqa'g unir cnvq
sbe unys bs gur fghss gung jr fnj ur unq.
Arbitrar Of Quality
> Apparently, according to the script, she was eating nuts in the
> limousine on her way to Winters' home. Watching it, I was convinced
> she was taking pills...
It was pretty clear to me, since they set it up with the cookies.
She's going to take whatever free food is availabe because she can't
afford snacks.
> How about Angel jumping dramatically into the wrong car?
Why do I have no memory of this at all? The scene people are
describing sounds pretty funny.
-AOQ
BTR1701
Don Sample <dsa...@synapse.net> wrote:
> In article <btr1702-42939D...@news.giganews.com>,
> BTR1701 <btr...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> > In article <dsample-974884...@news.giganews.com>,
> > Don Sample <dsa...@synapse.net> wrote:
> >
> > > In article <btr1702-6F364B...@news.giganews.com>,
> > > BTR1701 <btr...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > In article <1144518809.1...@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
> > > > "Mike Zeares" <mze...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > > "City Of" ends with Cordelia coming up with a fairly sensible way
> > > > > > to combine helping people with not living off star cookies. (Don't
> > > > > > ask me where Angel got the money to rent the place, or for his blood
> > > > > > supplies, or for the drinks at the beginning...)
> > > > >
> > > > > Kind of like Giles. Both shows just kind of ignore such concerns.
> > > >
> > > > Jryy, guvf fubj qbrfa'g vtaber vg. Vg'f whfg abg rkcynvarq sbe n juvyr.
> > >
> > > Hu? Jura qb gurl rire trg nebhaq gb rkcynvavat ubj Natry pbhyq nssbeq
> > > gung cynpr, be uvf pne, be uvf cynpr va Fhaalqnyr, be ohl n jubyr
> > > ubgry...
> >
> > Ner Lbh Abj be Unir Lbh Rire OrraŠ?
>
> Gung jnf jung, svsgl tenaq gung ur unq fgnfurq njnl, naq arire gbhpurq
> va gur arkg svsgl lrnef. Rira vs ur unq hfrq vg, vg jbhyqa'g unir cnvq
> sbe unys bs gur fghss gung jr fnj ur unq.
Vg vaqvpngrf gung bire gur 200 lrnef ur'f orra nyvir gung ur'f unq gur
sberfvtug gb fbpx njnl svanapvny erfbheprf. Gurl qba'g unir gb tvir hf
na nppbhagvat bs rirel qvzr gb znxr gur cbvag.
Apteryx
news:123ft5e...@news.supernews.com...
> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1144511596.6...@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>> does that as well as possible, basically self-consciously telling the
>> audience "yeah, we know this is a blob of exposition, but it's
>> important, okay?" And those who already know the premise are all
>> "ZOMG that clip's from _Buffy_!"
>
> Didn't like it, but don't care. Presumably it's not something to be
> repeated often.
>
> But I'm curious, could anyone who hadn't already been a Buffy fan actually
> understand the back story from that? (Or, for that matter, did anyone who
> wasn't a Buffy fan actually watch the episode?)
A minor annoyance for me, but understandable. They couldn't put on a network
show on the assumption that every viewer had seen all 3 Seasons of BtVS. But
to have re-established everything we need to know about Angel by developing
it normally would have been excrucuiatingly slow for the 90% of the audience
who had seen all 3 Seasons.
> I guess he's kind of the follow-up to Whistler, though Whistler seemed a
> lot more interesting to me.
I agree, the established character of Whistler would have been better.
>
>> The object of his interest initially seems rather
>> stupidly trusting, but in the parking lot (and later, i.e. "I guess
>> this is the part where you 'comfort' me?") it turns out she's a
>> different character type; someone who's seen too much and can't
>> genuinely trust anyone.
>
> I was kind of put off when Tina so readily invited Angel to meet her after
> work, but when she showed up with pepper spray I guessed that showed me.
It didn't really save it for me. If she had been suspicious of him from the
start, why give him the correct time she got off work? I assumed the pepper
spray was because she had had time to think about since agreeing to meet
him.
>
>> For Buffy fans, it is good to
>> see a familiar face, even if it's Cordelia's. She's still vapid
>> enough that saying something like "I really should be talking to
>> people that are somebody" doesn't seem to register as an insult.
>> But as much as one may have disliked the character in the past, it's
>> still hard not to feel at least a little bad for her in her apartment,
>> living or dying by whether the phone rings. For some reason, I liked
>> the moments in which she puts together what's going on in Russell's
>> place. But is it just me, or is the cadence of Cordelia's dialogue
>> downright Buffy-ish at times? In particular, the "I'm from
>> Sunnydale!" part.
>
> The Cordy scenes were my favorites of the episode.
>
> The sad reveal of her being stuck in a slum apartment. Eating the food
> she stole from the party. Poor Cordelia.
>
> Then sitting on her bed intoning, "I am somebody." What a hoot.
Loved that scene. But it was also significant. Sunnydale Cordelia didn't
strike me as someone who needed positive thinking mantras.
>
>> One-sentence summary: I'm game.
>
>> AOQ rating: Good
>
> Yes, I agree. The first story was a bit ordinary, but the episode was
> more about setup, which I think it handled with flair.
Yes to the Good rating and to the set-up comment. For me, the 33rd best AtS
episode, 5th best in Season 1. But because I rate AtS episodes on average
about a third of a point weaker than BtVS episodes, its actual rating (4.35)
would only earn it 70th place amongst BtVS episodes. My rankings of AtS are
less matured and hence more variable than my BtVS ones. I have only seen AtS
episodes an average of 2.83 times each, compared to 6.66 times for BtVS
episodes, which tends to mean that when I watch an AtS Season, I may change
my ratings for over half the episodes, sometimes by up to half a point each.
When I watch a BtVS Season I am likely to change the ratings for only 2 or 3
episodes, and the changes are much smaller.
--
Apteryx
Arbitrar Of Quality
>
> Notice that the credits have a different look
> from Buffy's, but a similar structure: title, clips, cast members with
> their own clips, more general clips, group shot of cast, solo shot of
> title character. But while the last shot of Buffy always showed her
> facing the camera, here we see Angel striding moodily away.
Good pickup.
> > And those who already know the premise are all
> > "ZOMG that clip's from _Buffy_!"
>
> I've seen this once or twice in AOQ threads. What the heck does ZOMG
> stand for? "Zebras! Oh my God!" might be appropriate in some situations,
> but it doesn't seem to fit here.
Ah, just something I picked up from other corners of the 'net (and I've
only seen it used in context, not a formal definition). Basically it's
a really hyper kind of "OMG!" to the point where the person being wowed
can't type straight (consider it a relative of phrases like "TEH
AWESOME!!!1!!") . Almost always used in a flippant or ironic manner.
> > trigger our plot by trying to get Angel to bring hope. And like every
> > TV version of LA I've ever seen, the city could use some.
>
> I've never actually been to LA, so my image of the city is shaped mainly
> by Angel and The Shield, with a little Boogie Nights thrown in.
And I'm just discovering _24_, which doesn't make the city seem like a
fun place at night either.
-AOQ
Apteryx
Its worth going back for another look. Its in the underground car park after
the baddies snatch Tina and before he rescues her by playing chicken. He
jumps in the car, sees his key won't fit and then looks across and sees his
own car a little distance away.
--
Apteryx
Arbitrar Of Quality
> Yes to the Good rating and to the set-up comment. For me, the 33rd best AtS
> episode, 5th best in Season 1. But because I rate AtS episodes on average
> about a third of a point weaker than BtVS episodes, its actual rating (4.35)
> would only earn it 70th place amongst BtVS episodes. My rankings of AtS are
> less matured and hence more variable than my BtVS ones. I have only seen AtS
> episodes an average of 2.83 times each, compared to 6.66 times for BtVS
> episodes, which tends to mean that when I watch an AtS Season, I may change
> my ratings for over half the episodes, sometimes by up to half a point each.
> When I watch a BtVS Season I am likely to change the ratings for only 2 or 3
> episodes, and the changes are much smaller.
And we thought WGF was a numbers geek.
-AOQ
One Bit Shy
news:EYXZf.11970$JZ1.4...@news.xtra.co.nz...
> "One Bit Shy" <O...@nomail.sorry> wrote in message
> news:123ft5e...@news.supernews.com...
>> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1144511596.6...@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
>>> For Buffy fans, it is good to
>>> see a familiar face, even if it's Cordelia's. She's still vapid
>>> enough that saying something like "I really should be talking to
>>> people that are somebody" doesn't seem to register as an insult.
>>> But as much as one may have disliked the character in the past, it's
>>> still hard not to feel at least a little bad for her in her apartment,
>>> living or dying by whether the phone rings. For some reason, I liked
>>> the moments in which she puts together what's going on in Russell's
>>> place. But is it just me, or is the cadence of Cordelia's dialogue
>>> downright Buffy-ish at times? In particular, the "I'm from
>>> Sunnydale!" part.
>>
>> The Cordy scenes were my favorites of the episode.
>>
>> The sad reveal of her being stuck in a slum apartment. Eating the food
>> she stole from the party. Poor Cordelia.
>>
>> Then sitting on her bed intoning, "I am somebody." What a hoot.
>
> Loved that scene. But it was also significant. Sunnydale Cordelia didn't
> strike me as someone who needed positive thinking mantras.
Having no money or food would tend to bring you down I think.
Another thing I found interesting in that scene is how she put on her
positive face and voice when the telephone rang. There had been a couple
intimations from her in BtVS that at least some of her manner was for show -
like when she mentioned how much practice she had hiding her brains. (I
don't remember the exact reference. Maybe when she got her SAT scores
back.) She obviously had money back then, but it wasn't always easy for
her. At the least she tended towards lonely here and there.
OBS
KenM47
There's no time that LA is a fun place in "24."
Ken (Brooklyn)
George W Harris
wrote:
:> Then sitting on her bed intoning, "I am somebody." What a hoot.
:
:Loved that scene. But it was also significant. Sunnydale Cordelia didn't
:strike me as someone who needed positive thinking mantras.
Sunnydale's a small pond.
--
They say there's air in your lungs that's been there for years.
George W. Harris For actual email address, replace each 'u' with an 'i'.
gree...@gmail.com
Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
> It was pretty clear to me, since they set it up with the cookies.
> She's going to take whatever free food is availabe because she can't
> afford snacks.
More to the point, she couldn't afford ~food~. Those star-shaped things
weren't cookies, they were sandwiches. She wasn't taking freebies to
snack on, she was taking them to stay alive.
> Why do I have no memory of this at all? The scene people are
> describing sounds pretty funny.
It was.
As far as your rating, 'Good' is close enough. As pilots go, (and I do
think pilots ought to be rated differently than other episodes), it's a
pretty good one. It does its exposition requirements without that "As
you know..." feel, and it was entertaining throughout. For that alone,
"City Of" remains one of my favorite _Angel_ episodes.
-- Terry
Mike Zeares
gree...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> As far as your rating, 'Good' is close enough. As pilots go, (and I do
> think pilots ought to be rated differently than other episodes), it's a
> pretty good one. It does its exposition requirements without that "As
> you know..." feel, and it was entertaining throughout. For that alone,
> "City Of" remains one of my favorite _Angel_ episodes.
I thought the exposition scene totally had that "As you know..." feel,
and the writers knew it, which is why they undercut it with Angel's
line about having been there. Angel's backstory was considerably more
complicated than Buffy's was in WTTH, so there was no real way to avoid
a massive exposition dump if they wanted to bring new viewers up to
speed quickly. I liked the fact that they did it all at once, since it
allowed them (and us) to get on with the story.
-- Mike Zeares
BTR1701
KenM47 <Ken...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> There's no time that LA is a fun place in "24."
Especially if you're hotter than molten lava and your name is Kim Bauer.
Even the mountain lions are out to get you.
Opus the Penguin
> Like any good self-important 'net reviewer, I rate each episode,
> based purely on the (subjective) bottom line; how much did I like
> watching it, overall? I use a five-point scale, except that I like
> words, so my ratings are "Excellent," "Good," "Decent,"
> "Weak," and "Bad." (And "SUPERLATIVE" and
> "ABOMINATION," but I use those only in the most extreme of extreme
> circumstances, so they're hardly worth mentioning. A total of zero
> episodes from the first three seasons of BTVS got either capitalized
> rating.)
Out of curiosity, did any Firefly episodes get one of those ratings?
Any other TV show episode you can think of?
--
Opus the Penguin
The best darn penguin in all of Usenet
Opus the Penguin
> IIRC, Doyle was supposed to be Whistler from Becoming, but that
> actor, Max Perlich, had some drug issues, I think that was the
> story, so Joss apparently reached back to his Roseanne days and
> Quinn got the part.
Fnqyl, Dhvaa unq fbzr qeht vffhrf gbb naq gurl riraghnyyl xvyyrq uvz.
Ohg abg orsber Qblyrq unq qvrq.
Opus the Penguin
> KenM47 <Ken...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>> IIRC, Doyle was supposed to be Whistler from Becoming, but that
>> actor, Max Perlich, had some drug issues, I think that was the
>> story, so Joss apparently reached back to his Roseanne days and
>> Quinn got the part.
>
> And there were all the complaints about his "terrible fake Irish
> accent" from people who were unaware that Glenn Quinn was Irish.
>
> (Must have been the same people who complained about Faith's
> "terrible fake Boston accent" who were unaware that Eliza Dushku
> was from Boston.)
>
Heh. Without knowing in advance, I critized the English accents of
Alexis Denisof and James Marsters, but pronounced Anthony Stewart
Head's acceptable. (I thought Denisof's was mediocre but not
terrible. Marsters' was obviously camp and acceptable on that level.)
I don't recall what I thought of Quinn's Irish accent. If I recall,
they had to ask him to tone down the full on brogue since he was
borderline incomprehensible to US ears.
(Harmony) Watcher
<chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu> wrote in message
news:123g2ob...@corp.supernews.com...
> In alt.tv.angel Arbitrar Of Quality <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
>
> > ANGEL
> > Season One, Episode 1: "City Of"
> > (or "We're just too dark and offbeat to bother making our titles
> > complete phrases")
> > Writers: David Greenwalt and Joss Whedon
> > Director: Joss Whedon
>
> > another world, as presumably intended. For Buffy fans, it is good to
> > see a familiar face, even if it's Cordelia's. She's still vapid
> > enough that saying something like "I really should be talking to
> > people that are somebody" doesn't seem to register as an insult.
>
> "It's nice to see she's grown as a person."
>
>
right on target (but Angel did not know any of it at the time when he
uttered it). Even if Russell Winters weren't a vamp, I think Cordy would be
venturing in a direction which could easily lead her to a downwardly spiral
path when she agreed to be "picked up by his limo". The first girl Angel
saved in LA was Cordy.
<rest snipped>
==Harmony Watcher==
Apteryx
What have you seen from WGF in the two months you have been here that would
lead you to believe he is a numbers geek? :)
--
Apteryx
Mike Zeares
Ah yes, that brings back some mammaries. MEMORIES. I meant memories.
-- Mike Zeares
Rowan Hawthorn
And we'll back you up on that, even if they question us separately...
--
Rowan Hawthorn
"Occasionally, I'm callous and strange." - Willow Rosenberg, "Buffy the
Vampire Slayer"
Wes <>
wrote:
I never pictured her as coming from all that much money. Even before
the IRS got involved. She seemed too eager to marry INTO money to have
all that much herself. Upper middle class at best. Maybe not that high
if daddy was using the tax money to keep is only(?) child happily
spoiled.
Wes
One Bit Shy
news:sqni321e4akhfo54c...@4ax.com...
My point was that money wasn't a problem. As for how much was around, I
assume daddy was in hock up to his ears if the IRS seized their house.
Which probably means he lived large and way beyond his means. But from
Cordelia's point of view - well, she had a nice car, spent summers at
foreign resorts, shopped for the most expensive items, and speaks in this
episode of having rooms in her house that nobody knew what were for. The
way she speaks of marrying into money here sounds like it was supposed to be
a set path for her life - her entitlement. I think she *thought* her family
was wealthy, even though they were on the verge of bankruptcy.
OBS
chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu
>
> My point was that money wasn't a problem. As for how much was around, I
> assume daddy was in hock up to his ears if the IRS seized their house.
> Which probably means he lived large and way beyond his means. But from
> Cordelia's point of view - well, she had a nice car, spent summers at
> foreign resorts, shopped for the most expensive items, and speaks in this
> episode of having rooms in her house that nobody knew what were for. The
> way she speaks of marrying into money here sounds like it was supposed to be
> a set path for her life - her entitlement. I think she *thought* her family
> was wealthy, even though they were on the verge of bankruptcy.
Hmm. Maybe Cordy's dad was something like Chandler Swanson, the
pyramid-scheme founder who died in episode 2 of Six Feet Under ... and
whose wife Adele was played by none other than Tracy Middendorf, Tina from
City Of! Though I love both Angel and SFU, I just made that connection
for the first time while reading OBS's post. I'm slow, but I get there.
(Well, sometimes.)
--Chris
______________________________________________________________________
chrisg [at] gwu.edu On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog.
One Bit Shy
news:123iqt5...@corp.supernews.com...
> In alt.tv.angel One Bit Shy <O...@nomail.sorry> wrote:
>>
>> My point was that money wasn't a problem. As for how much was around, I
>> assume daddy was in hock up to his ears if the IRS seized their house.
>> Which probably means he lived large and way beyond his means. But from
>> Cordelia's point of view - well, she had a nice car, spent summers at
>> foreign resorts, shopped for the most expensive items, and speaks in this
>> episode of having rooms in her house that nobody knew what were for. The
>> way she speaks of marrying into money here sounds like it was supposed to
>> be
>> a set path for her life - her entitlement. I think she *thought* her
>> family
>> was wealthy, even though they were on the verge of bankruptcy.
>
> Hmm. Maybe Cordy's dad was something like Chandler Swanson, the
> pyramid-scheme founder who died in episode 2 of Six Feet Under ... and
> whose wife Adele was played by none other than Tracy Middendorf, Tina from
> City Of! Though I love both Angel and SFU, I just made that connection
> for the first time while reading OBS's post. I'm slow, but I get there.
> (Well, sometimes.)
It's been so long since I saw that episode that I don't remember it or her
anymore. (They did burry a lot of people in that show.) Another thing on
my some day DVD list.
OBS
Mel
One Bit Shy wrote:
> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1144511596.6...@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>>[I don't know whether my reputation has preceded me, but if anyone
>>here doesn't know me,...
>
>
> For those who care about such things, this is also my first time through
> Angel. As far as I know I've never seen a minute of it.
>
>
>
>>A good intro is worth a thousand clichés. This being a Joss show, the
>>thing to do is play with expectations in some ways. And the teaser
>>here is a blast. We start with a melodramatic voiceover which lasts
>>just long enough to have us prepared to accept that AtS will use the
>>device of Angel narrating and musing about the nature of life and LA.
>>Then we cut to the incongruity of a drunken vampire talking about his
>>girl to anyone who'll listen. But as we soon suspect, he's just
>>using the drinks as an excuse to be where some predatory vamps are
>>about to strike. I like the stakes-up-the-sleeves trick. But then he
>>can't even give the standard reassuring words before fading into the
>>night, because, well, he's a demon too. Okay, I'm officially
>>engaged.
>
>
> I really like the moment where Angel drunkenly says, "Girls are nice," (so
> dopey!) followed quickly by turn to stone face, some cool rising music, and
> slo-mo stride out of the bar. Very nicely done. Won me over.
>
> The first fight not so much. The stakes up the sleeves gadget didn't work
> for me. But mainly it was the weird vamp faces. (Which went especially
> over the top later with Russell.) I guess they wanted to go more extreme
> than Buffy, but it looks too comic book like for my tastes.
>
>
>>On first viewing, I like the theme song.
>
>
> I'm not used to it yet. I hope it will grow on me. The background music in
> general, however, was fantastic. Very mood enhancing with quirky bits.
> Definitely an episode for the volume to be turned up.
>
>
>
>>Doyle shows up to fill new viewers in on the backstory. This scene
>>does that as well as possible, basically self-consciously telling the
>>audience "yeah, we know this is a blob of exposition, but it's
>>important, okay?" And those who already know the premise are all
>>"ZOMG that clip's from _Buffy_!"
>
>
> Didn't like it, but don't care. Presumably it's not something to be
> repeated often.
>
> But I'm curious, could anyone who hadn't already been a Buffy fan actually
> understand the back story from that? (Or, for that matter, did anyone who
> wasn't a Buffy fan actually watch the episode?)
>
>
I did. I never watched a single episode of Buffy before I watched Angel
the series. I knew it was a spinoff from BtVS and read about the premise
and was interested. Plus DB isn't exactly hard on the eyes. I loved it
right away. Either Buffy wasn't on the same station as Angel at that
time or I watched something else -- I don't remember which. I never saw
a new Buffy episode till late Season 5, and then only sporadically. From
what little I saw, I found Angel to be a far more interesting character
than Buffy (she's grown on me since, however ;-) much like Xena was far
more interesting than Hercules ever was.
What was really weird for me was, years later, when I finally saw Season
1 of Buffy on FX reruns, I had no idea Angel had been there from the
beginning. I originally thought he'd only been in Season 3 and then
moved over to his own show. Seeing him there in the first episode was a
big surprise.
Mel
One Bit Shy
news:rcudnRlf-OQlAaTZ...@uci.net...
> One Bit Shy wrote:
>> But I'm curious, could anyone who hadn't already been a Buffy fan
>> actually understand the back story from that? (Or, for that matter, did
>> anyone who wasn't a Buffy fan actually watch the episode?)
>>
>>
>
> I did. I never watched a single episode of Buffy before I watched Angel
> the series. I knew it was a spinoff from BtVS and read about the premise
> and was interested. Plus DB isn't exactly hard on the eyes. I loved it
> right away. Either Buffy wasn't on the same station as Angel at that time
> or I watched something else -- I don't remember which. I never saw a new
> Buffy episode till late Season 5, and then only sporadically. From what
> little I saw, I found Angel to be a far more interesting character than
> Buffy (she's grown on me since, however ;-) much like Xena was far more
> interesting than Hercules ever was.
Well there you have it. I hadn't thought of reading about it ahead of time.
(And I suppose there were promo spots too.)
Liking it more doesn't surprise me. I expect that a lot of people would be
more engaged with this concept, location, lead star.
> What was really weird for me was, years later, when I finally saw Season 1
> of Buffy on FX reruns, I had no idea Angel had been there from the
> beginning. I originally thought he'd only been in Season 3 and then moved
> over to his own show. Seeing him there in the first episode was a big
> surprise.
That must have been fun - discovering all that extra Angel you didn't know
about. Like buried treasure. You may have seen it out of sequence, but
that's a feeling people who saw it from the start never got.
OBS
BTR1701
Mel <melb...@uci.net> wrote:
> I did. I never watched a single episode of Buffy before I watched Angel
> the series. I knew it was a spinoff from BtVS and read about the premise
> and was interested. Plus DB isn't exactly hard on the eyes. I loved it
> right away. Either Buffy wasn't on the same station as Angel at that
> time or I watched something else -- I don't remember which.
Must have been the latter because "Buffy" and ANGEL aired back-to-back
on the WB.
William George Ferguson
Well, the fact that I said so, of course. Plus the post I did after the
Becoming review where I also broke down how I had rated the first two
seasons, including neat little tables, and the circles and arrows an the
little paragraphs on the back explaining what each one was.
I probably mentioned a couple of other times that I tend to quantify.
But no, he hasn't seen the thread comparisons, or the poster averages, or
the ratings posts (unless he's been on rec.arts.tv where I sort of
resurrected them to track the WB and UPN as they countdown to the merger).
And, of course, he hasn't Really been exposed to the filk.
All of the other Watchers
Used to laugh and call him names
They wouldn't let poor Rupert
Join in any Watcher games
--
HERBERT
1996 - 1997
Beloved Mascot
Delightful Meal
He fed the Pack
A little
peachy ashie passion
Filk.
You are writing filk.
I am SO not the junkie here.
Mel
Not necessarily in my case. I don't have a local WB affiliate where I'm
at. Most stuff is shown whenever the local station feels like airing it.
I seem to remember Angel always being on Wednesdays for some reason.
Mel
Tammy Stephanie Davis
BTR1701 <btr...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
:In article <dsample-748C38...@news.giganews.com>,
: Don Sample <dsa...@synapse.net> wrote:
:
:> In article <4snf321rdteut253o...@4ax.com>,
:> KenM47 <Ken...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
:>
:> >
:> > IIRC, Doyle was supposed to be Whistler from Becoming, but that actor,
:> > Max Perlich, had some drug issues, I think that was the story, so Joss
:> > apparently reached back to his Roseanne days and Quinn got the part.
:>
:> And there were all the complaints about his "terrible fake Irish accent"
:> from people who were unaware that Glenn Quinn was Irish.
:>
:> (Must have been the same people who complained about Faith's "terrible
:> fake Boston accent" who were unaware that Eliza Dushku was from Boston.)
:And the people who complain about Emilie de Ravin's "horrible Australian
:accent" on LOST. Same deal.
Hee. It always kills me when people complain bitterly (and they often sound
so authoritative and indignate in the process) about an actor's fake accent
and its later revealed that the accent is real and/or the actor is actually
from the state or country of that particular accent.
I first ran into this on the Babylon 5 newsgroup and website where people complained
about Beata Pozniak's fake accent. She played President Luchenko in the last
several episodes of season four. J. Michael Straczynski delighted in telling
those people the actor's accent was genuine.
--
AngelsGirl81
Angel was going to lick the girl's blood in the one body scene, Kate
was undercover as a prostitute and drug and/or alcohol addicted....
It was cleaned up but I think a few things made it into Lonely Hearts
after they were tweaked and cleaned up.
Randy Money
[...lots deleted, all interesting...]
> ANGEL
> Season One, Episode 1: "City Of"
> (or "We're just too dark and offbeat to bother making our titles
> complete phrases")
> Writers: David Greenwalt and Joss Whedon
> Director: Joss Whedon
>
[...]
> On first viewing, I like the theme song.
Me, too. Distinctive from BtVS. I think I like it more than the BtVS theme.
[...]
> Incongruity is again a big element when Angel meets up with Tina.
> Angel is two hundred whatever years old (plus a few hundred in a hell
> dimension), has faced down vampires and forces of darkness and so on,
> and can wear all sorts of social masks in the line of duty, as seen in
> the opening sequence. But when it comes down to actually dealing with
> people he's painfully shy. It doesn't always check, so I'm
> intentionally not thinking too hard about it, but I do think it makes
> for pretty good TV.
Agreed. But I do think it checks fairly well. Angel the human steering
the vamp is too scared of the vamp bloodlust to interact will with the
walking happy meals. Angel the obsessed is more interested in the action
than in getting to know about the people the action might affect. They
are means to an end, and there is something of a utilitarian, maybe even
warrior-like mindset there.
[...]
> And just when I think the show has established itself as its own
> independent sub-world, we get to look in on the other end of the
> one-sided phone conversation from "The Freshman." What can I say,
> I'm a sucker for stuff like that.
It's a nice touch.
> "City Of" ends with Cordelia coming up with a fairly sensible way
> to combine helping people with not living off star cookies. (Don't
> ask me where Angel got the money to rent the place, or for his blood
> supplies, or for the drinks at the beginning...) So we've got a
> cast, a premise, some mysterious history, and a villain. Not bad for a
> night's work.
>
> This Is Really Stupid But I Laughed Anyway moment(s):
> - Doyle's attempt to break through the gate
It was a nice touch of reality.
> So...
>
> One-sentence summary: I'm game.
>
> AOQ rating: Good
>
> [Season One so far:
> 1) "City Of" - Good]
>
Not a bad ramble, Arbitrar.
Randy M.
(Harmony) Watcher
"Randy Money" <rbm...@spamblock.syr.edu> wrote in message
news:44624165...@spamblock.syr.edu...
Vaqrrq. Vg znxrf gur hcpbzvat fprar va "Fnapghnel"
(uggc://oqo.ieln.arg/oqo/pyvc.cuc?pyvc=3220) nyy gur zber cbvtanag:
NATRY: Gung'f terng. Vg'f avpr... lbh zbirq ba. V pna'g. Lbh sbhaq fbzrbar
arj. V'z abg nyybjrq gb, erzrzore? V frr lbh ntnva, vg phgf zr hc vafvqr naq
gur crefba V funer gung jvgu vf zr! Lbh qba'g xabj zr nalzber, fb qba'g pbzr
qbja urer jvgu lbhe terng arj yvsr naq *rkcrpg* zr gb qb guvatf lbhe jnl. Tb
ubzr!
hadhbgr
==(Harmony) Watcher==
peachy ashie passion
> Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
>
> [...lots deleted, all interesting...]
>
>
>> ANGEL
>> Season One, Episode 1: "City Of"
>> (or "We're just too dark and offbeat to bother making our titles
>> complete phrases")
>> Writers: David Greenwalt and Joss Whedon
>> Director: Joss Whedon
>>
>
> [...]
>
>> On first viewing, I like the theme song.
>
>
> Me, too. Distinctive from BtVS. I think I like it more than the BtVS theme.
I know I do. I listen to it fairly often, bought a Darling Violetta
and a couple of Rasputina CDs because of it.
Randy Money
Fooey. I know there's a place for translating, but darned if I can
recall where.
Randy M.
Randy Money
>
[...]
> I really like the moment where Angel drunkenly says, "Girls are nice," (so
> dopey!) followed quickly by turn to stone face, some cool rising music, and
> slo-mo stride out of the bar. Very nicely done. Won me over.
>
> The first fight not so much. The stakes up the sleeves gadget didn't work
> for me. But mainly it was the weird vamp faces. (Which went especially
> over the top later with Russell.) I guess they wanted to go more extreme
> than Buffy, but it looks too comic book like for my tastes.
FYI: One of those vamps Angel offs is doing rather nicely for himself
now on ABC's "Lost." I believe that Angel's line "Girls are nice" is
said to him, too.
> And her wonderful confrontation with Russell.
>
> Cordelia: Hey, you're a vampire!
> Russell: What? No I'm not.
> Cordelia: Are too.
> Russell: I don't know what you're talking about.
> Cordelia: I'm from Sunnydale. We had our own hellmouth. I think I know a
> vampire when I...
>
> And, yes, I thought she did get a bit Buffy-ish at times. "I better get
> mingly."
But you could also accuse that of being Willow-ish. I suspect it's
either Cal-speak or the Joss version thereof.
>>The fight scenes are generally the same form as in BTVS, but there're
>>a few new ticks, like that weird spinning kick that Angel does.
>
>
> Did you notice the Batman moment when he jumped off the roof?
Not to spoil things, but keep the big Bat in mind for the first season
or so.
> Yes, I agree. The first story was a bit ordinary, but the episode was more
> about setup, which I think it handled with flair.
>
> OBS
Joss has a knack for pilots. Moreso than anyone I can think of in TV.
Even the one for "Firefly" -- the actual first episode, as opposed to
the excellent real 2-hour pilot -- was only awkward because of network
tampering. It worked remarkably well for not being the intended pilot.
Randy M.
peachy ashie passion
>
> Fooey. I know there's a place for translating, but darned if I can
> recall where.
>
> Randy M.
>
Slayah
> Fooey. I know there's a place for translating, but darned if I can
> recall where.
Here's one:
http://www.rot13.com/index.php
One Bit Shy
> One Bit Shy wrote:
>> Did you notice the Batman moment when he jumped off the roof?
>
> Not to spoil things, but keep the big Bat in mind for the first season or
> so.
The reviews are up to episode 14 now and, yes, we've noted several other
Batman moments.
OBS
Randy Money
Thanks much, folks.
Randy M.
Randy Money
Noted.
A bit late, but noted.
Randy M.
One Bit Shy
Just wanted to be sure you saw where we were up to - still in the first
season. Please do enjoy the discussions and offer what you will. Thanks.
OBS