Buffy and the Shadowmen
David Milligan
offer her more power (demon power) but she refuses, worried it will make her
less human.
Don't ever recall any speculation about what that meant.
More power = two or three times more strength so she could go toe-to-toe
with Caleb?
Or invulnerability like Warren had with the Orbs of Nezzla'khan (S6
"Seeing Red")?
Or more ferocious / ruthless / bloodthirsty / out-of-control when
fighting the Turok-Han?
Or able to morph into a more demon-ish looking Uber-Buffy?
Or . . . ?
--
David E. Milligan
http://daviderl31.blogspot.com/
Don Sample
"David Milligan" <david...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Buffy spent a lot of time worrying that her Slayerness was making her
less human. Another episode it came up in a lot was "Intervention."
--
Quando omni flunkus moritati
Visit the Buffy Body Count at <http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/>
David Milligan
"Don Sample" <dsa...@synapse.net> wrote in message
news:dsample-C005F8...@news-central.giganews.com...
> In article <hdkpda$68o$1...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> "David Milligan" <david...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> In the ep "Get it Done" Buffy goes back to see the Shadowmen and they
>> offer her more power (demon power) but she refuses, worried it will make
>> her
>> less human.
>> Don't ever recall any speculation about what that meant.
>> More power = two or three times more strength so she could go
>> toe-to-toe
>> with Caleb?
>> Or invulnerability like Warren had with the Orbs of Nezzla'khan (S6
>> "Seeing Red")?
>> Or more ferocious / ruthless / bloodthirsty / out-of-control when
>> fighting the Turok-Han?
>> Or able to morph into a more demon-ish looking Uber-Buffy?
>> Or . . . ?
>
> Buffy spent a lot of time worrying that her Slayerness was making her
> less human. Another episode it came up in a lot was "Intervention."
>
A good reason to keep Giles around a while longer.
Finished "Chosen" and S7. Now I feel lost and wondering what's
next?
Want to wait awhile before Angel again.
Tried Roswell, but still too fresh since my last marathon. Ditto for
Veronica Mars. Double ditto for Xena.
Maybe I'll try NewsRadio while waiting for the complete series of
Farscape due next week sometime.
Edward McArdle
<david...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Others I have really enjoyed were
SG1 - I bought the first eight seasons cheaply, watched them all in a row
(never done that before for any show!) then bought seasons nine and ten at
MARKET PRICE and watched them
Cleopatra 2525 - I quite enjoyed it, but it won't win any Oscars.
Fringe Season 1. I thought this was really good.
Lexx - but this might be an acquired taste
Less successful:
Andromeda - I bought nearly all the DVDs, and did watch them, but...
Gilmore Girls - I bought the lot, but have only watched season 1. I do
intend to watch the rest - one day.
Kyle XY - started it, but gave up when I realised the series never gets
anywhere before cancellation.
Birds of Prey - may watch the rest one day.
Saving Grace - bogged down in its gritty style. Never finished season 1.
Desperate Housewives - don't know why I stopped, but I don't intend to get
any more seasons.
In Treatment - well outside the genre (it is a psychologist interviewing a
patient) but I bought it and will probably finish it.
I buy too many DVDs!!
--
Edward McArdle
David Milligan
"Edward McArdle" <mca...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
news:mcardle-1411...@192.168.1.5...
If the price was right I might try them (and if work picks up and
money is good again). Never watched it until I found out Claudia Black
(Vala) was coming on.
>
> Cleopatra 2525 - I quite enjoyed it, but it won't win any Oscars.
Sorry, but looking at G*n* T*rr*s kind of makes me want to vomit.
Never have I seen an uglier, more nauseating looking thing that GT. If it
wasn't for Jewel, Summer and Morena, I never could have stomached Firefly
>
> Fringe Season 1. I thought this was really good.
Never could watch more than half a show - not interesting
>
> Lexx - but this might be an acquired taste
Tried it, never could get into the story.
>
>
> Less successful:
> Andromeda - I bought nearly all the DVDs, and did watch them, but...
Would like to get at least the first season, somehow lost the thread
between seasons
> Gilmore Girls - I bought the lot, but have only watched season 1. I do
> intend to watch the rest - one day.
Gone through the series at least twice since the show ended. Still
catching fave eps on Family channel.
> Kyle XY - started it, but gave up when I realised the series never gets
> anywhere before cancellation.
Again, couldn't get into the story.
> Birds of Prey - may watch the rest one day.
Hadn't thought about that one, Liked it though.
> Saving Grace - bogged down in its gritty style. Never finished season 1.
Never watched it. Seems like I was already watching something on
another channel.
> Desperate Housewives - don't know why I stopped, but I don't intend to get
> any more seasons.
No no no
> In Treatment - well outside the genre (it is a psychologist interviewing a
> patient) but I bought it and will probably finish it.
>
Never heard of it.
Marc Espie
The psychological aspect looked more important to me. To wit: the primitive
slayer, with the same power as Buffy, but definitely not something she
wanted to be. With multiple references in the series to the effect that
her friends were "grounding" her in humanity, and that the primordial slayer
was somewhat antagonistic to this effect...
Regardless of the actual effect, what the shadow men offered would have
made Buffy closer to the primordial slayer, and THAT she definitely did not
want.
All that subtext is most often lost in the noise... very obvious feminist
message, and that created a lot of discussion...
MBB
@news.eternal-september.org:
> Or . . . ?
>
Or the God-Buffy that defeated Adam in the Initiative. Floating and turning
Unarium supplies into doves.
That Buffy was supposed to have the powerof the entire Slayer line, so I
think it must come close to were that power came from.
For this (and other) reasons I found the 'shadowmen'episode conflicting
with the previous seasons.
Although it's still better then the power coming from the Powers-That-Be
(Angel-verse)
--
+0==)]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
<MBB>-
Ben Morrow
Quoth MBB <A@B_nd.com>:
> "David Milligan" <david...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:hdkpda$68o$1
> @news.eternal-september.org:
>
> > Or . . . ?
> >
>
> Or the God-Buffy that defeated Adam in the Initiative. Floating and turning
> Unarium supplies into doves.
> That Buffy was supposed to have the powerof the entire Slayer line, so I
> think it must come close to were that power came from.
No, that Buffy was supposed to have the combined powers of Buffy,
Willow, Xander and Giles. The magic used to implement it required
invoking the spirit of the First Slayer, but that isn't the same thing.
> For this (and other) reasons I found the 'shadowmen'episode conflicting
> with the previous seasons.
The general theme of 'powerful men taking an innocent and unwilling girl
and turning her into their weapon' fits in very well with everything
else we've seen of the Watchers' Council (and, you know, Firefly,
Dollhouse, Alien:Resurrection...)
Ben
MBB
news:up34t6-...@osiris.mauzo.dyndns.org:
>
>
> No, that Buffy was supposed to have the combined powers of Buffy,
> Willow, Xander and Giles. The magic used to implement it required
> invoking the spirit of the First Slayer, but that isn't the same
> thing.
>
I didn't see it like that, I thought they just needed 3 people to power the
spell to get to the slayerline power (that was after all the whole reason
for the first slayer-theme from the following episode)
But if you are right, only Willow ended up anywere near the kind of power
Buffy had that episode.
So you think that if Tara in stead of Willow had been doing that spell,
Buffy would not have been able to rip out Adam's uraium core?
--
+0==)]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
<MBB>-
David Milligan
"MBB" <A@B_nd.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9CC43E25526...@213.75.85.100...
Maybe Tara should have been included.
> --
>
> +0==)]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
>
> <MBB>-
clau...@webtv.net
]The psychological aspect looked more
]important to me. To wit: the primitive
]slayer, with the same power as Buffy, but
]definitely not something she wanted to
]be. With multiple references in the series
]to the effect that her friends were
]"grounding" her in humanity, and that the
]primordial slayer was somewhat
]antagonistic to this effect...
I can't remember if this episode (The Shadowmen) was before or after
(pretty sure it was before) the episode where Buffy is injured by a
demon and "wakes up" in a mental ward. As Marc points out, "there are
multiple references in the series
to the effect that her friends were
"grounding" her in humanity" or is it as the doctor told Buffy, that her
"friends" are keeping her in her delusion? That when Buffy died in her
world (at the end of one season), she was lucid for a whole summer until
Willow brought her back to life (the beginning of the next season) or as
the doctor says, "pulled her back into her delusion". Besides "Once
More with Feeling", the mental ward episode is a favorite of mine. SMG's
acting was powerful, especially at the end when Buffy's mother tells her
she has a "world of strength inside her" which makes Buffy decide that
her world needs her more and she tells her mother "Thank you and
goodbye".
George W Harris
> I can't remember if this episode (The Shadowmen) was before or after
>(pretty sure it was before) the episode where Buffy is injured by a
>demon and "wakes up" in a mental ward.
"Normal Again" was in S6. "Get It Done" was S7.
--
Doesn't the fact that there are *exactly* 50 states seem a little suspicious?
George W. Harris For actual email address, replace each 'u' with an 'i'
David Milligan
<clau...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:17666-4AF...@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net...
scene where the doctor is examining Buffy after she goes catatonic for the
last time -- How could the mental ward be the delusion if the doctor was
examining her AFTER she went back to Sunnydale? Did that mean that
Sunnydale was the delusion?
No definitive consensus.
Captain Infinity
David Milligan wrote:
> There was a long series of posts / arguments about the last
>scene where the doctor is examining Buffy after she goes catatonic for the
>last time -- How could the mental ward be the delusion if the doctor was
>examining her AFTER she went back to Sunnydale? Did that mean that
>Sunnydale was the delusion?
> No definitive consensus.
I think they were both delusions, fabricated realities created by a
third, higher power who is never seen.
**
Captain Infinity
Ben Morrow
Quoth "David Milligan" <david...@yahoo.com>:
>
> There was a long series of posts / arguments about the last
> scene where the doctor is examining Buffy after she goes catatonic for the
> last time -- How could the mental ward be the delusion if the doctor was
> examining her AFTER she went back to Sunnydale? Did that mean that
> Sunnydale was the delusion?
> No definitive consensus.
I thought the general consensus was that, since Buffy hadn't taken the
antidote yet, the illusion still existed. She may even have still been
slipping in and out, but since she had chosen which to take as reality
that didn't matter.
Ben
One Bit Shy
news:lbh6t6-...@osiris.mauzo.dyndns.org...
That doesn't prove or disprove either reality since she might have "chosen"
the illusion. But I agree that the continued existence of institutionalized
Buffy at the end of the episode doesn't prove anything either, since she
hadn't taken the antidote yet.
But in a broader sense it seems pretty clear that this is just another
instance in a series of attempts to escape the life she hates, whether it's
to die again, live invisible, follow Spike into the shadows, or live a
delusion of returning to a life with mom and dad. (If there's any doubt
that's a delusion, note how mom and dad are happily married - surely an
expression of Buffy's desires rather than truth.) Ultimately the experience
is used to resolve an old issue - in this case, coming to terms with the
death of her mother.
It's just too much like wish fulfillment to take as reality.
OBS
David Milligan
"Captain Infinity" <Infi...@captaininfinity.us> wrote in message
news:ao31g5ht1l6g4ttfu...@4ax.com...
The First?
David Milligan
The last scene with the doctor WAS the last scene of the episode. It
was after she took the antidote.
Don Sample
"David Milligan" <david...@yahoo.com> wrote:
No, she had not yet taken the antidote. Willow hadn't had time to make
another batch yet.
Ben Morrow
Quoth "David Milligan" <david...@yahoo.com>:
>
> "Ben Morrow" <b...@morrow.me.uk> wrote in message
> news:lbh6t6-...@osiris.mauzo.dyndns.org...
> >
> > Quoth "David Milligan" <david...@yahoo.com>:
> >>
> >> There was a long series of posts / arguments about the last
> >> scene where the doctor is examining Buffy after she goes catatonic for
> >> the
> >> last time -- How could the mental ward be the delusion if the doctor was
> >> examining her AFTER she went back to Sunnydale? Did that mean that
> >> Sunnydale was the delusion?
> >> No definitive consensus.
> >
> > I thought the general consensus was that, since Buffy hadn't taken the
> > antidote yet, the illusion still existed. She may even have still been
> > slipping in and out, but since she had chosen which to take as reality
> > that didn't matter.
>
> was after she took the antidote.
No it wasn't. Buffy poured the first batch away without drinking it; the
episode ended as Willow was discussing making up another batch, but that
hadn't been done yet.
Ben
Captain Infinity
David Milligan wrote:
>
>"Captain Infinity" <Infi...@captaininfinity.us> wrote in message
>news:ao31g5ht1l6g4ttfu...@4ax.com...
>> Once Upon A Time,
>> David Milligan wrote:
>>
>>> There was a long series of posts / arguments about the last
>>>scene where the doctor is examining Buffy after she goes catatonic for the
>>>last time -- How could the mental ward be the delusion if the doctor was
>>>examining her AFTER she went back to Sunnydale? Did that mean that
>>>Sunnydale was the delusion?
>>> No definitive consensus.
>>
>> I think they were both delusions, fabricated realities created by a
>> third, higher power who is never seen.
> The First?
Diego Gutierrez.
**
Captain Infinity
David Milligan
We see Dawn huddled by the refrigerator, Xander picking himself up,
Willow and Tara helping each other up. They all stare at Buffy.
BUFFY: (whispers) I'm so sorry.
WILLOW: Buffy? We're okay. It's all okay. (Buffy stumbling(?)) Buffy, sit
down. You'll fall over.
BUFFY: No ... I can't. Not until I have the antidote.
WILLOW: Okay. We-we'll make more, we'll take care of it.
Close on Buffy's face.
WILLOW: (OS) Everything's gonna be okay, Buffy.
Flash to the institution. The doctor shining a flashlight at the
camera (Buffy POV). He clicks the flashlight off, then on again.
We see CrazyBuffy sitting there catatonic, unresponsive as the
doctor shines the light in her eyes. The doctor makes an upset face, turns
to speak over his shoulder.
DOCTOR: I'm sorry, there's no reaction at all.
Close on CrazyBuffy leaning in the corner of the room.
DOCTOR: (OS) I'm afraid we lost her.
Camera pulls out slowly to reveal the doctor sitting on a chair, and
behind him, Buffy's parents. Joyce is sobbing. Hank puts his arm around her
and she hugs him. Continue pulling out to reveal the shackled bed. Camera
moves back through the closed door with its tiny window.
Blackout
..................
Okay. I was wrong. Willow hadn't been made more of the antidote.
Never said I had a photogenic (???) memory.
Marc Espie
David Milligan <david...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Okay. I was wrong. Willow hadn't been made more of the antidote.
>Never said I had a photogenic (???) memory.
photographic.
photogenic means you photograph well.
or maybe you're looking for eidetic (perfect recall).
David Milligan
"Marc Espie" <es...@lain.home> wrote in message
news:he22io$2jbr$1...@saria.nerim.net...
Photo something or other -- I disremember.