AOQ Review 4-8: "Pangs"
Arbitrar Of Quality
threads.
BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
Season Four, Episode 8: "Pangs"
(or "You have taken the land which is rightfully ours. Years from
now my people will be forced to live in mobile homes on reservations.
Your people will wear cardigans, and drink highballs. We will sell our
bracelets by the roadsides, and you will play golf, and eat hot h'ors
d'ourves. My people will have pain and degradation; your people will
have stick-shifts.")
Writer: Jane Espenson
Director: Michale Lange
It's a very special Holiday Crossover Special. I believe
Thanksgiving is one of the last big seasonal holidays the show hasn't
done yet, so let's go. Although a little abashed by how much like
her mother she's sounding, Willow takes the stance that Thanksgiving
is a bullshit holiday. I was totally that way when I was a freshman,
but I later came to appreciate the celebration of the brief period of
strangers showing decency to each other before reality kicked back in.
Plus the chance to make a holiday gathering out of it, with
cranberries. (And yams, of course.)
So we then rather blandly translate that into an actual vengeance
spirit, wreaking small-scale havoc on random people. And cutting off
ears and such, so we can fill time by having our heroes investigate
that. As un-PC as it is, it's time for the Scoobies to defend
themselves, and any attempts to wring a moral dilemna out of that fall
pretty flat. On a more interesting note, Buffy gets one of her
periodic obsessions with doing something "normal" and making it
just right - in this case, it's a Thanksgiving dinner for her
friends. And Spike ends up arranging an uneasy truce with our heroes,
based largely on starving and having nowhere else to go.
Okay, that takes care of "plot." And now, on to the part where the
review degenerates into a list of favorite moments and quotes.
Because, let's face it, there's really not much worthwhile plot or
structure to note (symbolism people: feel free to submit your
thoroughly thought-out theses about how the demons represent the things
in the heroes' past that they wish they could change, or whatever).
But it's an hour absolutely packed with character moments and killer
lines. This ranks among the highest density of funny the series has
seen to date, and is a joy to watch. So, without further ado, a list
of highlights:
Anya: To commemorate a past event, you kill and eat an animal. It's a
ritual sacrifice, with pie.
Anya: It bites. She's not rippling at all.
Willow: Buffy, earlier you agreed with me about Thanksgiving. It's a
sham. It's all about death.
Buffy: It is a sham, but it's a sham with yams. It's a yam sham.
Willow: You're not gonna jokey-rhyme your way out of this one.
[And a bit later: "Well, I suppose there could be slight yams."]
Willow trying to come up with scenarios under which the professor could
dump her own body.
Buffy: ...and keep your hands off the food.
Giles: Oh, I'll try and restrain myself from eating uncooked potatoes
and cranberries.
Willow: And then later, we can churn our own butter and make sweaters
out of sheep.
Willow: Hey, is Cordelia really working for you? 'Cuz that's gotta be
a special experience. Of all the people you could've hired...
Buffy: I'm a great cook... in theory. I've eaten a lot. [I also
liked the exchange about paintings later in the scene.]
Buffy: We don't say "Indian."
Giles: Oh, right. Yes, yes, always behind on the terms. Still trying
not to refer to you lot as "bloody Colonials."
Willow: Let's give him some land.
Giles: I'm sure that'll clear everything right up.
Willow: Sarcasm accomplishes nothing, Giles.
Giles: It's sort of an end in itself.
[And then he keeps mockingly bringing up the giving-land idea...]
The cross-talk during the dueling arguments (Xander and Anya/Willow and
Giles) is fun, and however predictable Buffy breaking it up by
complaining about the food is, it still works.
Spike: What part of "help me" do you not understand?!
Buffy: The part where I help you.
Spike: You exterminated his race. What could you possibly say that
would make him feel better? It's kill or be killed here. Take your
bloody pick.
Xander: Maybe it's the syphilis talking, but... some of that made
sense.
Giles: I made these points earlier, but fine, no one listens to me.
Spike [on vampires who don't eat]: Living skeletons, mate. Like
famine pictures from those dusty countries, only not half as funny.
Buffy: You can have gravy. That has blood in it, right?
Spike: Do you know what else has blood in it? Blood!
Xander: He's evil again.
Angel: I'm *not* evil again. Why does everyone think that?
Willow: Angel's here to protect Buffy.
Angel [still annoyed]: I haven't been evil for a long time...
>From Mrs. Quality: "Spike jumping around the room in that chair is
way funnier than it should be."
And that's just scratching the surface. So much good stuff. This
one was very close to an Excellent, but there're a few picayunish
details that get slightly in the way. First and foremost: Buffy's in
danger all the time, so if you're going to pretend something is
important enough to give Doyle a headache and need Angel to deal with,
it'd better be something really impressive. Not an "army" of ten
anachronistic spirits; I think Buffy could deal with that in her sleep.
Another thing that bothered me is Willow's attitude during all the
arguing at the house: I can theoretically see her taking the
I-don't-want-to-get-involved stance if the innocent people being
killed were an abstract. But *Xander* is one of 's victims, and
Willow keeps mouthing the platitudes? I don't buy it. Then
there's the fact that when the spirit goes after "leaders," it
thinks in terms of the strongest fighters - yeah, that explains why
it killed the archaeologist. Finally, the way the climax is set up,
with our heroes in a small area dodging arrows that never hit... it
looks low-budget and lame, and not in a campy way (the bear at the end
was fun, though). But again, none of these things are annoying enough
to change the fact that "Pangs" is great fun.
Other notes;
Xander just can't seem to pick a girlfriend that Willow approves of,
can he? (Although I guess she accepted the mummy before it was
revealed to be all dead and stuff.)
Speaking of Mr. Harris, how does he keep landing these short-lived
jobs?
Giles has an interesting nonverbal reaction when Angel reminds him
it's not his job to look after Buffy either.
We end with a joke in which Buffy learns about Angel's presence in
the most anticlimactic way possible. It's pretty funny. I'd be
worried if I thought they'd leave it at that (and this show has shown
a history of doing that), but given that there's another show that
aired right after this, one would certainly expect some kind of
continuation.
This Is Really Stupid But I Laughed Anyway moment(s):
- The whole episode, really.
So...
One-sentence summary: An enjoyable time is had by all.
AOQ rating: Good
[Season Four so far:
1) "The Freshman" - Good
2) "Living Conditions" - Decent
3) "The Harsh Light Of Day" - Good
4) "Fear Itself" - Decent
5) "Beer Bad" - Weak
6) "Wild At Heart" - Excellent
7) "The Initiative" - Decent
8) "Pangs" - Good]
Don Sample
"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
>
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Four, Episode 8: "Pangs"
> (or "You have taken the land which is rightfully ours. Years from
> now my people will be forced to live in mobile homes on reservations.
> Your people will wear cardigans, and drink highballs. We will sell our
> bracelets by the roadsides, and you will play golf, and eat hot h'ors
> d'ourves. My people will have pain and degradation; your people will
> have stick-shifts.")
> Writer: Jane Espenson
> Director: Michale Lange
>
> The cross-talk during the dueling arguments (Xander and Anya/Willow and
> Giles) is fun, and however predictable Buffy breaking it up by
> complaining about the food is, it still works.
>
> Spike: What part of "help me" do you not understand?!
> Buffy: The part where I help you.
>
> Spike: You exterminated his race. What could you possibly say that
> would make him feel better? It's kill or be killed here. Take your
> bloody pick.
> Xander: Maybe it's the syphilis talking, but... some of that made
> sense.
> Giles: I made these points earlier, but fine, no one listens to me.
"That's what conquering nations do. That's what Caesar did, and
he's not going around saying 'I came, I conquered, I felt really
bad about it.'"
> Speaking of Mr. Harris, how does he keep landing these short-lived
> jobs?
Lots of job vacancies, from people who became demon chow (or came to
their senses, and left town.)
--
Quando omni flunkus moritati
Visit the Buffy Body Count at <http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/>
Michael Ikeda
news:1146001957.1...@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these
> review threads.
>
>
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Four, Episode 8: "Pangs"
> (or "You have taken the land which is rightfully ours. Years
> from now my people will be forced to live in mobile homes on
> reservations. Your people will wear cardigans, and drink
> highballs. We will sell our bracelets by the roadsides, and you
> will play golf, and eat hot h'ors d'ourves. My people will have
> pain and degradation; your people will have stick-shifts.")
> Writer: Jane Espenson
> Director: Michale Lange
>
>
> And that's just scratching the surface. So much good stuff.
> This one was very close to an Excellent, but there're a few
> picayunish details that get slightly in the way. First and
> foremost: Buffy's in danger all the time, so if you're going to
> pretend something is important enough to give Doyle a headache
> and need Angel to deal with, it'd better be something really
> impressive. Not an "army" of ten anachronistic spirits; I think
> Buffy could deal with that in her sleep.
The Powers That Be work in mysterious ways. One thing, however, it
probably isn't about how much danger Buffy was or wasn't in (and she
was in at least some danger). One probably wants to think more about
the effect on Angel. Not sure that'll give a good answer, but that's
probably the way to approach it.
>Then
> there's the fact that when the spirit goes after "leaders," it
> thinks in terms of the strongest fighters - yeah, that explains
> why it killed the archaeologist.
Although angry spirits also traditionally go after whoever is
responsible for disturbing them. Also the spirit first materialized
around the ancient knife that was in the archeologist's possession.
The knife seems to have some sort of mystical importance.
--
Michael Ikeda mmi...@erols.com
"Telling a statistician not to use sampling is like telling an
astronomer they can't say there is a moon and stars"
Lynne Billard, past president American Statistical Association
David E. Milligan
"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in message
news:1146001957.1...@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Spike: You ... you made a BEAR!
Buffy: I didn't mean to.
MBangel10 (Melissa)
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
>
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Four, Episode 8: "Pangs"
> (or "You have taken the land which is rightfully ours. Years from
> now my people will be forced to live in mobile homes on reservations.
> Your people will wear cardigans, and drink highballs. We will sell our
> bracelets by the roadsides, and you will play golf, and eat hot h'ors
> d'ourves. My people will have pain and degradation; your people will
> have stick-shifts.")
> Writer: Jane Espenson
> Director: Michale Lange
"Uh, you can have casinos now."
>
> It's a very special Holiday Crossover Special. I believe
> Thanksgiving is one of the last big seasonal holidays the show hasn't
> done yet, so let's go. Although a little abashed by how much like
> her mother she's sounding, Willow takes the stance that Thanksgiving
> is a bullshit holiday. I was totally that way when I was a freshman,
> but I later came to appreciate the celebration of the brief period of
> strangers showing decency to each other before reality kicked back in.
> Plus the chance to make a holiday gathering out of it, with
> cranberries. (And yams, of course.)
I could quote this entire episode. It's in my top 5 of the season.
>
> So we then rather blandly translate that into an actual vengeance
> spirit, wreaking small-scale havoc on random people. And cutting off
> ears and such, so we can fill time by having our heroes investigate
> that. As un-PC as it is, it's time for the Scoobies to defend
> themselves, and any attempts to wring a moral dilemna out of that fall
> pretty flat. On a more interesting note, Buffy gets one of her
> periodic obsessions with doing something "normal" and making it
> just right - in this case, it's a Thanksgiving dinner for her
> friends. And Spike ends up arranging an uneasy truce with our heroes,
> based largely on starving and having nowhere else to go.
Spike : All right. All right, I'll go. Just-- (He falls.)
Harmony : What?
Spike : Can I have someone to eat?
and him looking in on the feeding vampires and being left out in the
cold was priceless.
and then he tipped over.... (and how many arrows can one vamp take? LOL)
>
> And that's just scratching the surface. So much good stuff. This
> one was very close to an Excellent, but there're a few picayunish
> details that get slightly in the way. First and foremost: Buffy's in
> danger all the time, so if you're going to pretend something is
> important enough to give Doyle a headache and need Angel to deal with,
> it'd better be something really impressive. Not an "army" of ten
> anachronistic spirits; I think Buffy could deal with that in her sleep.
I've not watched the lead in Angel episode in years, if I remember
correctly they did make it seem like the apocalypse to end all was about
to happen.
> Another thing that bothered me is Willow's attitude during all the
> arguing at the house: I can theoretically see her taking the
> I-don't-want-to-get-involved stance if the innocent people being
> killed were an abstract. But *Xander* is one of 's victims, and
> Willow keeps mouthing the platitudes?
Xander : (Patting Anya on the shoulder.) And you know what? I think my
syphilis is clearing right up.
Buffy : And they say romance is dead. Or maybe they just wish it.
I don't buy it. Then
> there's the fact that when the spirit goes after "leaders," it
> thinks in terms of the strongest fighters - yeah, that explains why
> it killed the archaeologist.
I agree. I never got how this Indian was going after leaders by killing
who he killed. Angel's theory came out of nowhere but I suppose it
needed SOME reason to want to attack Buffy.
Finally, the way the climax is set up,
> with our heroes in a small area dodging arrows that never hit... it
> looks low-budget and lame, and not in a campy way (the bear at the end
> was fun, though). But again, none of these things are annoying enough
> to change the fact that "Pangs" is great fun.
Buffy : A bear!
Spike : You made a bear!
Buffy : I didn't mean to.
Spike : Undo it! Undo it!
>
> Other notes;
>
> Xander just can't seem to pick a girlfriend that Willow approves of,
> can he? (Although I guess she accepted the mummy before it was
> revealed to be all dead and stuff.)
>
> Speaking of Mr. Harris, how does he keep landing these short-lived
> jobs?
>
> Giles has an interesting nonverbal reaction when Angel reminds him
> it's not his job to look after Buffy either.
>
> We end with a joke in which Buffy learns about Angel's presence in
> the most anticlimactic way possible. It's pretty funny. I'd be
> worried if I thought they'd leave it at that (and this show has shown
> a history of doing that), but given that there's another show that
> aired right after this, one would certainly expect some kind of
> continuation.
and of course.....
>
> This Is Really Stupid But I Laughed Anyway moment(s):
> - The whole episode, really.
>
>
> So...
>
> One-sentence summary: An enjoyable time is had by all.
>
> AOQ rating: Good
>
> [Season Four so far:
> 1) "The Freshman" - Good
> 2) "Living Conditions" - Decent
> 3) "The Harsh Light Of Day" - Good
> 4) "Fear Itself" - Decent
> 5) "Beer Bad" - Weak
> 6) "Wild At Heart" - Excellent
> 7) "The Initiative" - Decent
> 8) "Pangs" - Good]
>
I would have gone ahead and given it an excellent just because I still
laugh watching it.
vague disclaimer
"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
> >From Mrs. Quality: "Spike jumping around the room in that chair is
> way funnier than it should be."
The episode, in a nutshell.
Also:
SPIKE: You made a bear!
BUFFY: I didn't mean to.
SPIKE: Undo it! Undo it!
And it only gets better with repeat viewing.
--
A vague disclaimer is nobody's friend
MBangel10 (Melissa)
> In article <1146001957.1...@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
>
>> >From Mrs. Quality: "Spike jumping around the room in that chair is
>> way funnier than it should be."
>
> The episode, in a nutshell.
>
> Also:
>
> SPIKE: You made a bear!
>
> BUFFY: I didn't mean to.
>
> SPIKE: Undo it! Undo it!
>
>
> And it only gets better with repeat viewing.
I think we all posted this quote at the same time. It just shows how
funny it is. :)
Don Sample
"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
Okay, my first take on Pangs, from November 24, 1999:
Pangs: Points to ponder.
Worst episode so far this season.
- First of all: Angel. They just parachuted him into an episode in
which he had nothing to do, for the sake of having him there. He
lurked in the shadows like a peeping tom for most of the episode, and
his final contributions to the fight at the end were mostly just a case
of "he has to do *something*!"
- Who was that girl and what did she do with Willow? Sure Hus had a
complaint, but the people responsible for what happened to his people
were all dead already. He wasn't interested in listening to any
apologies anyway.
- OK, Spike took the "trade information about The Initiative." route
that I kind of expected him to, but how long is Buffy going to put up
with him? So far he hasn't told her anything. Buffy should figure out
pretty quickly that is because he doesn't have all that much to tell
her. He *might* be able to lead her back into The Initiative's
underground bunker, assuming they haven't changed the locks on whatever
route he took to get out, but what else can he do or tell her. And how
reliable is that implant device? Will its battery wear out in a week?
Could it be broken by a sharp blow to the head. A trip to the hospital
for a head xray might locate it and a little surgery remove it. Buffy
knows that Spike is capable of playing possum. Biding his time,
pretending to still be injured, while waiting for his chance to stab
her in the back. It's what he did to Angel.
- Good things about the episode: Mostly Spike. Spike the helpless
vamp. His fangs have been so thoroughly pulled he is even afraid of
Harmony now. His little "you conquered them, get over it!" speech.
- Another good thing: Anya. She stuck around to help. She didn't
head for the hills this time. I also liked her reaction to Xander's
"You don't talk to vengance demons, you kill them!"
vague disclaimer
"MBangel10 (Melissa)" <mban...@comcast.net> wrote:
Heh. From Buffy's black hat right at the start to Xander's foot-in-mouth
at the end it is a splendid giggle-fest.
And even a little bit of season theme comment...
WILLOW: Maybe not. But at least we all worked together. It was like old
times.
drifter
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
>
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Four, Episode 8: "Pangs"
> (or "You have taken the land which is rightfully ours. Years from
> now my people will be forced to live in mobile homes on reservations.
> Your people will wear cardigans, and drink highballs. We will sell
> our bracelets by the roadsides, and you will play golf, and eat hot
> h'ors d'ourves. My people will have pain and degradation; your
> people will have stick-shifts.")
OK, that's from that Addams Family movie. What do I win?
--
Kel
"I reject your reality, and substitute my own."
vmac...@yahoo.com
understated acting in that whole scene with Giles and Angel - they're
on the same side, allies on paper, but past events keep them
uncomfortable with each other.
And I liked Giles' impatience when Buffy is freaking out over the lack
of a potato ricer: "We'll mash them with forks, much like the Pilgrims
must have; did you catch the part about *innocent people*?"
I only recently learned that mushy peas are an actual dish in Britain.
...err...*yummy*.
VMacek
Benjamin Pavsner
ep is pretty good. Not "Fear Itself" of "Beer Bad" good, but Xander was
pretty funny in it.
"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in message
news:1146001957.1...@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
William George Ferguson
>In article <1146001957.1...@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
>
>> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
>> threads.
>>
>
>Okay, my first take on Pangs, from November 24, 1999:
>
Okay, I'll top Don and post both my first (November) and second (March
repeat) thoughts.
----------------------------------------------------------
From: William George Ferguson <f...@primenet.com>
Subject: Pangs - Random Comments - Spoilers
Date: 1999/11/23
Message-ID: <c0pm3s0s1751jgfl3...@4ax.com>#1/1
Newsgroups: alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer
Actually not bad.
Well, all you folks (Hi Roazie) who really disliked how Spike/Harmony
went in The Freshman, feeling better now?
Poor 19th century Spike-urchin looking in the window as the well-to-do
vamps sit down to a Thanksgiving feast.
"You can't reason with Vengeance Demons, all you can do is kill them."
"I didn't know you felt that way, Xander."
"I didn't mean you Anya."
"Sometimes a demon's got to do what a demon's got to do."
I liked the fact that the dysfunctional family metaphor, and how it
obviously applied to Buffy's real-life past, wasn't overtly stated
(although it echoed in scene after scene).
"What part of 'help me' didn't you understand?"
"The part where I help you."
Buffy really doesn't like moral ambiguity.
Willow and Anya make a halfway functional fighting unit. That's
scary.
"You are a very strange girlfriend."
"I'm a girlfriend?"
"Soon he'll be all sweaty. It makes me want to have sex with him
again."
Face it Anya, breathing makes you want to have sex with him.
Also, we now know that Anya, at least, isn't into girls (watching the
professor dig didn't turn her on at all).
"Hey, watch the heart."
"Especially with Angel being here and all." "Oops."
----------------------------------------------------------
[slightly edited to cover spoiler information]
From: William George Ferguson <f...@primenet.com>
Subject: Pangs-redux - Random Comments
Date: 2000/03/28
Message-ID: <tr23esg316ern7ban...@4ax.com>#1/1
Newsgroups: alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer
If this accidentaly escaped, and is being reposted, I apologize.
I liked Pangs well enough the first time, I still liked it on the
repeat. I'm a sucker for the really quotable episodes, though.
In fact, I think I'm channelling AuntieLib.
The reason why Anya's part on the series has grown from throwaway
vengeance demon is simple. She can carry scenes with her delivery.
Sorry for those who don't like her, but it's true.
"Well, it bites. She's not rippling at all."
Anya is definitely hetero
"You're a strange girlfriend."
"I'm a girlfriend?"
And picks up on the important things.
"Ooh, we could not invite Anya."
Willow is really into forgiveness.
"<cough>Momma's boy</cough>"
This is the Forrest that I liked.
"See, I don't get that, all this "leaving for her own good"
garbage. Because that's what it is. You can't just give up because
there's obstacles. What kind..."
"Willow."
"Sorry. My stuff."
As Giles would say, the subtext is rapidly becoming text.
"Willow, I'm here to protect Buffy. I don't have a whole lot of
time for personal stuff."
"Right. Well, how can I help?"
"Well, if you can just tell me... Who's that guy?"
So, at least Angel knows about Riley, if not vice versa.
"...And Native American."
"Sorry?"
"We don't say 'Indian'."
"Oh, right. Yes, yes. Um, always behind on the terms. Still
trying not to refer to you lot as 'bloody colonials.'"
"And the thing is, I like my evil like I like my men-- evil."
"I have reason to believe buffy herself may be in particular danger
from this menace."
"You mean... Angel? I saw him, too."
"That's not terribly stealthy of him."
"I think he's lost his edge."
"You don't talk to vengeance demons. You kill them."
Emma Caulfield's body language here, before she even says a word, is
brilliant.
"What part of 'help me' didn't you understand?"
"The part where I help you."
"Hey! Watch the heart!"
"Oops."
--
atbvs GC:
W&VW+++F&B++B&G-ewwwSlyr-DOA25++RiG++X&EvGrls++
X&B---JS++W&T?!?Ar&Snshne!!!Ha&MrPty-hehehe
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
>
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Four, Episode 8: "Pangs"
> (or "You have taken the land which is rightfully ours. Years from
how about (temporarily humboldt county)
> killed were an abstract. But *Xander* is one of 's victims, and
> Willow keeps mouthing the platitudes? I don't buy it. Then
willows channeling of her mother gets very annoying
in the end she notes that when she personally is put at risk
all that goes out the window and she does as muych damage as she can
sort of like the joke that liberal is conservative
who hasnt been mugged
arf meow arf - nsa fodder
al qaeda terrorism nuclear bomb iran taliban big brother
if you meet buddha on the usenet killfile him
nimue
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
>
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Four, Episode 8: "Pangs"
> (or "You have taken the land which is rightfully ours. Years from
> now my people will be forced to live in mobile homes on reservations.
> Your people will wear cardigans, and drink highballs. We will sell
> our bracelets by the roadsides, and you will play golf, and eat hot
> h'ors d'ourves. My people will have pain and degradation; your
> people will have stick-shifts.")
If there's someone I love as much as I love any Scoobie, it's gotta be my
gal Wednesday. Oh -- and did you catch a young Mercedes McNab as Amanda
a.k.a. Sarah Miller?
That used to be my sig. I love Anya. Sigh.
--
nimue
"Evil is not merely banal; it prides itself on sticking to the rules
and looks forward to its pension." Kyle Smith
"Violence always wants to erupt and only creativity can control it."
Sister Wendy
nimue
Um, you will have to ask young Mr. Glicker's friend Mr. Universe that.
He'll know.
Steve Schaffner
of this episode would be, but I chickened out. I would have guessed
something on the border between weak and decent. So much for my
prognosticating skills. I'm relieved.
Ok, sure, it hasn't got much of a plot, but it's lots of fun. Lines
that haven't been mentioned yet:
"Imaginary Xander is quite the machine."
"So this is Angel. He's large and glowery, isn't he?"
"What's he like when he *is* evil?"
--
Steve Schaffner s...@broad.mit.edu
Immediate assurance is an excellent sign of probable lack of
insight into the topic. Josiah Royce
One Bit Shy
>
> One-sentence summary: An enjoyable time is had by all.
>
> AOQ rating: Good
I always forget how funny this episode is.
Only a few general remarks.
I don't care much for the whole Indian vengeance story. Even with the
jokes. Fortunately it's largely incidental. Just today's excuse to fuss
and fume and fight and laugh - which the cast does quite admirably.
I was blown away by Anya in this episode. From here on I really hunger for
her contributions.
The bear is one of the dumbest, yet funniest climaxes to a fight scene that
I've seen.
Most of the jokes in the episode have been recounted by others. I'll just
add that I also enjoyed the cavalry coming to Fort Giles on bikes.
I thought Spike wandering around in his blanket was kind of sad. And I
suppose the episode's reminder of why one gives thanks for their plenty.
Good is where I end up too. Not important enough for Excellent and one more
issue....
-------------
Mostly a side note.
This was actually the first episode that I ever saw Angel in. (I had a kind
of strange initial sequence of viewing - or perhaps non-sequence would
better describe it - but S4 mostly came first.) Needless to say, his
presence was confusing to me. As more references to him popped up I
eventually had to go to a friend who'd followed the series for explanation.
Anyway, it initially sent me down a bad road with Angel 'cause I found
everything about him to be terribly annoying. Not because there was
anything horrible about him - though I didn't see much interesting either -
but because it seemed so intrusive and out of context with what was going on
in BtVS.
Took me a long time to get over it - not helped by the fact that the second
half of S2 was near the last episodes of the series that I got to view. I
can handle Angel better now, and I better appreciate how his scenes are
played in this episode, but his presence *still* feels kind of intrusive.
(And kind of a wimpy follow-through to the vision in the preceding Angel
episode. Yeah, he made one good knife throw that *might* have saved Buffy,
but Xander is the one who made the key move to let Buffy triumph.)
OBS
Don Sample
"nimue" <cup_o...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
> > A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> > threads.
> >
> >
> > BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> > Season Four, Episode 8: "Pangs"
> > (or "You have taken the land which is rightfully ours. Years from
> > now my people will be forced to live in mobile homes on reservations.
> > Your people will wear cardigans, and drink highballs. We will sell
> > our bracelets by the roadsides, and you will play golf, and eat hot
> > h'ors d'ourves. My people will have pain and degradation; your
> > people will have stick-shifts.")
>
> If there's someone I love as much as I love any Scoobie, it's gotta be my
> gal Wednesday. Oh -- and did you catch a young Mercedes McNab as Amanda
> a.k.a. Sarah Miller?
She was in both of the Addams Family movies. (There are only two. No
one can convince me otherwise.) In the first one she was selling Girl
Scout cookies (presumably made without real Girl Scouts.)
Don Sample
Steve Schaffner <s...@phosphorus.broad.mit.edu> wrote:
> I almost posted something this afternoon, trying to guess what rating
> of this episode would be, but I chickened out. I would have guessed
> something on the border between weak and decent. So much for my
> prognosticating skills. I'm relieved.
>
> Ok, sure, it hasn't got much of a plot, but it's lots of fun. Lines
> that haven't been mentioned yet:
>
> "Imaginary Xander is quite the machine."
>
> "So this is Angel. He's large and glowery, isn't he?"
But she saw Angel in 'Doppelgangland.'
Arbitrar Of Quality
> Okay, my first take on Pangs, from November 24, 1999:
>
> Pangs: Points to ponder.
>
> Worst episode so far this season.
How do you feel about it now?
-AOQ
Arbitrar Of Quality
> Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
> > BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> > Season Four, Episode 8: "Pangs"
> > (or "You have taken the land which is rightfully ours. Years from
> > now my people will be forced to live in mobile homes on reservations.
> > Your people will wear cardigans, and drink highballs. We will sell
> > our bracelets by the roadsides, and you will play golf, and eat hot
> > h'ors d'ourves. My people will have pain and degradation; your
> > people will have stick-shifts.")
>
> OK, that's from that Addams Family movie. What do I win?
You can brag about it to your friends. And know that I always
appreciate it when people catch those references.
-AOQ
~in the old days of usenet, some posters used to give out "points" that
people could then accumulate ad put in their sigs~
~~but these are more enlightened times~~
~~~unless people still do that~~~
Arbitrar Of Quality
> Mostly a side note.
>
> This was actually the first episode that I ever saw Angel in. (I had a kind
> of strange initial sequence of viewing - or perhaps non-sequence would
> better describe it - but S4 mostly came first.) Needless to say, his
> presence was confusing to me. As more references to him popped up I
> eventually had to go to a friend who'd followed the series for explanation.
>
> Anyway, it initially sent me down a bad road with Angel 'cause I found
> everything about him to be terribly annoying. Not because there was
> anything horrible about him - though I didn't see much interesting either -
> but because it seemed so intrusive and out of context with what was going on
> in BtVS.
>
> Took me a long time to get over it - not helped by the fact that the second
> half of S2 was near the last episodes of the series that I got to view. I
> can handle Angel better now, and I better appreciate how his scenes are
> played in this episode, but his presence *still* feels kind of intrusive.
> (And kind of a wimpy follow-through to the vision in the preceding Angel
> episode. Yeah, he made one good knife throw that *might* have saved Buffy,
> but Xander is the one who made the key move to let Buffy triumph.)
You never get a second chance to make a first appearance, huh?
If you recall my earlier reviews, I knew Angel was Significant from the
beginning (mostly because he had a spinoff), but I didn't particularly
like him at first. It was early S2, especially "Lie To Me," that
finally sold me on the character, but what I don't remember is exactly
when he became one of my favorites in the Buffyverse.
Other than the issue previously mentioned (definitely a wimpy followup
to the ATS lead-in), I love the way his scenes are played here. I see
it in kinda a strange, whimsical way: BTVS is better suited to all-out
absurdity than ATS (at least so far), and Angel's getting re-acclimated
to that. He tries to brood and nuance his way through the episode, but
Espenson's script will have none of that, and insists on molding him to
fit its world. The bit I quoted in the review (the "I am *not* evil
again" scene) is absolutely my favorite moment in "Pangs."
-AOQ
Don Sample
"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
It's grown on me since then. As others have noted (including yourself)
it's packed with quotable lines. But I still think it's some sort of
pod-Willow there for much of the episode.
Arbitrar Of Quality
Don Sample wrote:
> In article <1146019006.8...@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Don Sample wrote:
> >
> > > Okay, my first take on Pangs, from November 24, 1999:
> > >
> > > Pangs: Points to ponder.
> > >
> > > Worst episode so far this season.
> >
> > How do you feel about it now?
> >
> > -AOQ
>
> It's grown on me since then. As others have noted (including yourself)
> it's packed with quotable lines. But I still think it's some sort of
> pod-Willow there for much of the episode.
We have a few of the same complaints; they just don't bother me as much
as they used to for you.
-AOQ
Apteryx
news:1146001957.1...@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
I'm late. So I'll just add one favourite of multi-tasking Buffy that no one
else seems to have posted yet, unless I missed it:
Buffy : Will, you know how bad I feel about this. It's eating me up-- (To
Anya.) 1/4 Cup of brandy and let it simmer-- (To Willow.) But even though
it's hard, we have to end this.
>>From Mrs. Quality: "Spike jumping around the room in that chair is
> way funnier than it should be."
>
> And that's just scratching the surface. So much good stuff. This
> one was very close to an Excellent, but there're a few picayunish
> details that get slightly in the way. First and foremost: Buffy's in
> danger all the time, so if you're going to pretend something is
> important enough to give Doyle a headache and need Angel to deal with,
> it'd better be something really impressive. Not an "army" of ten
> anachronistic spirits; I think Buffy could deal with that in her sleep.
> Another thing that bothered me is Willow's attitude during all the
> arguing at the house: I can theoretically see her taking the
> I-don't-want-to-get-involved stance if the innocent people being
> killed were an abstract. But *Xander* is one of 's victims, and
> Willow keeps mouthing the platitudes? I don't buy it. Then
> there's the fact that when the spirit goes after "leaders," it
> thinks in terms of the strongest fighters - yeah, that explains why
> it killed the archaeologist. Finally, the way the climax is set up,
> with our heroes in a small area dodging arrows that never hit... it
> looks low-budget and lame, and not in a campy way (the bear at the end
> was fun, though). But again, none of these things are annoying enough
> to change the fact that "Pangs" is great fun.
Yeah. Heaps and heaps of great lines. Only the plot and characterisations
holds it back. The worst parts were Big Chief Moaning Willow, and Angel
floating about like the ghost of Thanksgivings Past. But there are just so
many great lines and visual jokes, we can forgive that.
> One-sentence summary: An enjoyable time is had by all.
>
> AOQ rating: Good
Good it is (though not far from Excellent - there's just so many great
lines). It is my 28th favourite BtVS episode, 5th best in Season 4.
--
Apteryx
Mel
Not pod-Willow -- Willow-channeling-her-mother up to the fight at the
end where real Willow asserts her inner badass and swings a mean shovel.
Mel
Arbitrar Of Quality
> where real Willow asserts her inner badass and swings a mean shovel.
Ooh. Just realized that the idea of Willow hitting someone with a
shovel got a mention in "The Initiative." That can't be a coincidence.
-AOQ
eli...@gmail.com
probably give it an 'Excellent' - yes, some of the plot points are
stupid, but so much hilarity come from them thatI don't care.
eli...@gmail.com
and her world. He has his own, separate, life now, which is of course
all part of the moving on process.
That said I love him in this! The fact that everyone thinks he's evil
is just hilarious!
Rowan Hawthorn
Not a chance...
--
Rowan Hawthorn
"Occasionally, I'm callous and strange." - Willow Rosenberg,
"Buffy the Vampire Slayer"
Jim Johnson
wrote:
> Anya: To commemorate a past event, you kill and eat an animal. It's
>> a ritual sacrifice, with pie.
>
>That used to be my sig. I love Anya. Sigh.
LOL I love Anya to. It wasn't this ep. but what was the episode
where Xander was moving and everyone was helping. Anya was sitting on
a stool doing nothing and they all complained. She said something
like Well Buffy's got super strength. Let's load her up like one of
those pack mules. I Laughed until I cried. I love Anya lol.
eli...@gmail.com
although I think most people agree that this episode is brilliant.
Anyway, re. what you were saying the other day about Frnfba Svir bs
Natry orvat n zrff, gura V zhfg pbasrff gb yvxvat vg gur orfg. Va bar
jnl vg vf n funzr gung gurl jrer sbeprq gb qb fgnaq-nybarf, fvapr V
jbhyq unir ybirq gb frr n ybat nepu yvxr va Frnfba Sbhe s.rk., ohg ba
gur bgure unaq gur rcvfbqrf jr tbg jrer fb oevyyvnag gung V pna\'g fnl
V zvaq. Vg\'f fbeg bs gur bccbfvgr bs Frnfba Bar - zbfgyl fgebat
rcvfbqrf, jvgu n srj onq barf guebja va. Nyfb Abg Snqr Njnl jnf na
nznmvat raqvat gb gur \'irefr! :)
chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu
> threads.
>
>
> Season Four, Episode 8: "Pangs"
> (or "You have taken the land which is rightfully ours. Years from
> now my people will be forced to live in mobile homes on reservations.
> Your people will wear cardigans, and drink highballs. We will sell our
> bracelets by the roadsides, and you will play golf, and eat hot h'ors
> d'ourves. My people will have pain and degradation; your people will
> have stick-shifts.")
> Director: Michale Lange
As AOQ would say, this (episode) is really stupid but I like it anyway.
But before I get into that, the historian in me would like to say a word
about Thanksgiving. (If anyone is actually reading this, they might want
to skip ahead.)
Folks, Thanksgiving is a holiday devoted to giving thanks. IT IS NOT
ABOUT THE FUCKING PILGRIMS! Nor about early Euro-American colonists in
general. The Pilgrims just provide the iconography, since their famous
thanks-giving feast was used as an example to emulate when T-day became a
holiday. That's all. The fourth Thursday in November is a day devoted to
giving thanks, being with your loved ones, and stuffing yourself like a
pig. Commemorating the Pilgrims comes in a very distant fourth, if it
shows up at all. So complaining that the Thanksgiving holiday whitewashes
the genocide of Native Americans is rather like complaining that Christmas
glorifies pine trees -- it has nothing to do with the real meaning of the
holiday. Buffy actually has a much more reasonable attitude toward
Thanksgiving than Willow does.
(Willow's complaints might have more merit if transposed to Columbus Day.
I was going to add "but what show ever has a Columbus Day special
episode?" Then I remembered that The Sopranos did.)
Anyway, back to Pangs. I agree with the majority here: feather-weight
plot, but absolutely hilarious. "I like my evil like my men: evil" is one
of my favorite lines of the whole series. Sarcasm as an end in itself and
the mystic panic-causing incantation would be too, though you really need
the line before each one for them to work.
I also agree with a lot of people that Willow's part was a bit overdone.
Sympathizing with the spirit's grievances is one thing; but keeping that
foremost in her mind even as the victims pile up is going a bit too far.
And I don't think "channelling her mother" really explains anything. The
question remains, why does she *continue* channelling her mother after
seeing her lifelong best friend stricken with a fatal disease? However,
while it was definitely out of character, the episode as a whole was too
much fun for this to really bother me.
Assorted thoughts:
When I first saw Pangs I thought "Chumash" was a really weak made-up name.
Couldn't they make up something that sounded a little more evocative?
Then I ran across a journal article about them and realized that it's
actually a very real name. Whoops.
And the name Hus always reminds me of Jan Hus, the Czech proto-Protestant
who was burned at the stake in 1415. I'm sure most people have the same
reaction.
Family arguments are of course a Thanksgiving staple. It was never
explicitly stated, but I assumed the Giles-Willow bickering was giving
Buffy flashbacks to her parents' divorce.
> Finally, the way the climax is set up, > with our heroes in a small area
dodging arrows that never hit... it > looks low-budget and lame, and not
in a campy way
Oh, I thought it was great in a definitely campy way! I took it as a
parody of all those old 50s and 60s TV Westerns that I mostly haven't
seen. It fits right in with the cavalry hurrying to the rescuse on stolen
bicycles. And for the record, Buffy did get hit once. What I don't
understand is, why didn't the arrows vanish when the spirits did?
> Speaking of Mr. Harris, how does he keep landing these short-lived jobs?
I guess having the ladies' nightclub on your resume really opens a lot of
doors. The real question is why does he keep losing the jobs? I'd
fanwank that he lost one or two for taking off without permission to help
fight demons.
It was very charitable of the group to let Spike sit at the table. I
would have put him at a card table in the living room.
--Chris
______________________________________________________________________
chrisg [at] gwu.edu On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog.
Opus the Penguin
> So complaining that the Thanksgiving holiday whitewashes
> the genocide of Native Americans is rather like complaining that
> Christmas glorifies pine trees -- it has nothing to do with the
> real meaning of the holiday.
A pine tree killed my grandma, you insensitive jerk.
--
Opus the Penguin
The best darn penguin in all of Usenet
One Bit Shy
> One Bit Shy wrote:
>
> > Mostly a side note.
> >
> > This was actually the first episode that I ever saw Angel in. (I had a kind
> > of strange initial sequence of viewing - or perhaps non-sequence would
> > better describe it - but S4 mostly came first.) Needless to say, his
> > presence was confusing to me. As more references to him popped up I
> > eventually had to go to a friend who'd followed the series for explanation.
> >
> > Anyway, it initially sent me down a bad road with Angel 'cause I found
> > everything about him to be terribly annoying. Not because there was
> > anything horrible about him - though I didn't see much interesting either -
> > but because it seemed so intrusive and out of context with what was going on
> > in BtVS.
> >
> > Took me a long time to get over it - not helped by the fact that the second
> > half of S2 was near the last episodes of the series that I got to view. I
> > can handle Angel better now, and I better appreciate how his scenes are
> > played in this episode, but his presence *still* feels kind of intrusive.
> > (And kind of a wimpy follow-through to the vision in the preceding Angel
> > episode. Yeah, he made one good knife throw that *might* have saved Buffy,
> > but Xander is the one who made the key move to let Buffy triumph.)
>
> You never get a second chance to make a first appearance, huh?
Heh. No. Starting when I did also made it a little harder to fully
appreciate Oz. I mean, pretty much the first thing I see him do is
leave and make Willow cry. That was a smaller issue. Angel was a lot
harder.
> If you recall my earlier reviews, I knew Angel was Significant from the
> beginning (mostly because he had a spinoff), but I didn't particularly
> like him at first. It was early S2, especially "Lie To Me," that
> finally sold me on the character, but what I don't remember is exactly
> when he became one of my favorites in the Buffyverse.
Yeah. I remember. That proved oddly helpful to me. I could tell you
weren't fully appreciating the character yet (which is perfectly
understandable early on). That got me to really focus on him S1
looking for anything particularly illuminating to point your direction.
I pretty much struck out on that, but in the process I got a better
appreciation of some of the small tenuous speaking moments he had - in
the context of the personality we come to know and the retrospective
understanding that he had fairly recently risen from the gutter, in
considerable part because Buffy drew him.
I like him in S1 better now. Unfortunately, the perpetual break-ups of
S3 are as annoying as ever.
> Other than the issue previously mentioned (definitely a wimpy followup
> to the ATS lead-in), I love the way his scenes are played here. I see
> it in kinda a strange, whimsical way: BTVS is better suited to all-out
> absurdity than ATS (at least so far), and Angel's getting re-acclimated
> to that. He tries to brood and nuance his way through the episode, but
> Espenson's script will have none of that, and insists on molding him to
> fit its world. The bit I quoted in the review (the "I am *not* evil
> again" scene) is absolutely my favorite moment in "Pangs."
Sure. That's a good scene.
Don Sample
chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu wrote:
>
> What I don't
> understand is, why didn't the arrows vanish when the spirits did?
Because they were real weapons, stolen from the cultural centre.
One Bit Shy
> >his presence *still* feels kind of intrusive.
> That always struck me as kind of the point - he really has _left_ Buffy
> and her world. He has his own, separate, life now, which is of course
> all part of the moving on process.
I agree. And within the context of the Angel/Buffy story I have no
objection to it. The question to me is when the intrusiveness moves
beyond the internal story to an independent TV series intruding upon
another. I'm generally leery of crossover shows because even though
spinoffs retain a back story link to their source, they tend to acquire
independent stories - and styles - that don't mix easily.
This example isn't egregious and isn't meant to be a great criticism.
But I'm still a little uneasy with it.
> That said I love him in this! The fact that everyone thinks he's evil
> is just hilarious!
No argument there. The individual scenes are played very well.
OBS
drifter
> And the name Hus always reminds me of Jan Hus, the Czech
> proto-Protestant who was burned at the stake in 1415. I'm sure most
> people have the same reaction.
Oh, um, yeah. Sure. Uh huh. Absolutely.
--
Kel
"I reject your reality, and substitute my own."
KenM47
>A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
>threads.
>
>
>BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
>Season Four, Episode 8: "Pangs"
>(or "You have taken the land which is rightfully ours. Years from
>now my people will be forced to live in mobile homes on reservations.
>Your people will wear cardigans, and drink highballs. We will sell our
>bracelets by the roadsides, and you will play golf, and eat hot h'ors
>d'ourves. My people will have pain and degradation; your people will
>have stick-shifts.")
>Writer: Jane Espenson
>Director: Michale Lange
>
<SNIP>
>
>We end with a joke in which Buffy learns about Angel's presence in
>the most anticlimactic way possible. It's pretty funny. I'd be
>worried if I thought they'd leave it at that (and this show has shown
>a history of doing that), but given that there's another show that
>aired right after this, one would certainly expect some kind of
>continuation.
And go back and watch again if you missed the look on Spike's face at
Xander's little gaffe.
>
>This Is Really Stupid But I Laughed Anyway moment(s):
>- The whole episode, really.
>
>
>So...
>
>One-sentence summary: An enjoyable time is had by all.
>
>AOQ rating: Good
>
I'll go with solid Excellent, from the jokes, to Angel's anxiety, to
Angel's jealousy of Riley, to Spike's lost little orphan vampire
staring through the cracked window at the warm vampire feasting family
scene, to the jokes. Did I mention the jokes?
A great episode. Season 4 looked to finally be coming together. It's
all good. Not a dull moment.
Ken (Brooklyn)
nimue
> In article <laA3g.41805$x97....@news-wrt-01.rdc-nyc.rr.com>,
> "nimue" <cup_o...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
>>> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
>>> threads.
>>>
>>>
>>> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
>>> Season Four, Episode 8: "Pangs"
>>> (or "You have taken the land which is rightfully ours. Years from
>>> now my people will be forced to live in mobile homes on
>>> reservations. Your people will wear cardigans, and drink highballs.
>>> We will sell our bracelets by the roadsides, and you will play
>>> golf, and eat hot h'ors d'ourves. My people will have pain and
>>> degradation; your people will have stick-shifts.")
>>
>> If there's someone I love as much as I love any Scoobie, it's gotta
>> be my gal Wednesday. Oh -- and did you catch a young Mercedes McNab
>> as Amanda a.k.a. Sarah Miller?
>
> She was in both of the Addams Family movies.
I know. I remember her well. However, her role in Addams Family Values was
much larger.
> (There are only two. No
> one can convince me otherwise.) In the first one she was selling Girl
> Scout cookies (presumably made without real Girl Scouts.)
Yep -- she asked if the lemonade was made with real lemons, hence
Wednesday's witty, totally deadpan rejoinder.
James Craine
Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
>
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Four, Episode 8: "Pangs"
> (or "You have taken the land which is rightfully ours. Years from
> now my people will be forced to live in mobile homes on reservations.
> Your people will wear cardigans, and drink highballs. We will sell our
> bracelets by the roadsides, and you will play golf, and eat hot h'ors
> d'ourves. My people will have pain and degradation; your people will
> have stick-shifts.")
> Writer: Jane Espenson
> Director: Michale Lange
>
Ok. Now you are abusing hyperbole.