"Triangle:" Misunderstood Masterpiece
Kev Quigley
first wave of replies very much in favor of it, and the second wave
absolutely hating it. One poster called it this season's "Beer Bad"
(which, in my humble opinion, was not a bad episode, per se) and David
Hines - in his usual negative way - lambasted it with one star and
called it "...a stinker, through and through."
Now, I watch BUFFY each week with a varied group of people, and while
we often disagree on points of each show, we often agree with the
episode as a whole. One of our members absolutely hated - HATED -
Riley, but (unlike some) did not let her hatred of one character taint
her view of the show (though she did yell at the screen when he was
on. Also grumbled.) One of David Hines' (and others) major complaints
with "Triangle" is that they spent WAY too much time discussing Riley.
Okay, let's think back to how long it took Buffy to get over Angel -
heck, PARKER - and realize that the ten minutes of screen time
discussing the Riley departure was probably warranted.
Also, what many people seem to be forgetting is that "Triangle" ... is
a COMEDY! That's right! Like any BUFFY episode, there's some blending
of drama and comedy (I think a lot of the "dark comedy" is still there,
by the way - check Spike's turning to Xander and asking, "Where do you
think? Hospital, or...?") The scene with Buffy and Dawn in her
bedroom - including the now-common sisterly gesture of rubbing Dawn's
hair - was played for all the pathos possible ... but dealt with it
well. Buffy didn't get sappy here, she didn't go crazy - and that's
because this was the scene in the episode that discussed the breakup
seriously. Later on, in the scene with Tara, the over-the-top
stuff ... was on purpose! Buffy thinks she's dealing perfectly fine,
and she is, to a point. She's overcompensating and trying to over-
protect Xander and Anya's relationship. (Remember when she first found
out about Dawn being The Key? She went crazy overprotective.)
The end breakdown started off very cathartic, and I was glad to see her
getting it out of her system. Her calling Xander and Anya's
love "magical" was funny to outsiders - especially us viewers - but for
Buffy, it was just her way of asserting that they should stay happy.
Avoid the mistakes that she and Riley made.
Also, a lot of odd pairings made this episode unique: Buffy and Tara
discussing class? Xander and Spike playing pool? Willow and Anya ...
doing everything? All odd pairings, and they all worked extremely
well. It shows the show still has fresh avenues to explore, and that
the actors really take to playing off different people. I, for one,
would love to see Xander and Tara hanging out, or some more Buffy and
Anya stuff.
The throwaway lines worked GREAT, as well: Any mention of Amy always
makes me cheer for the continuity department. Sure, it's a plot thread
that was never resolved. So what? If they resolved all the plot
threads, the show would end. Also part of the continuity: the universe
with no shrimp. Way to go, Ms. Espenson, for remembering "Superstar"'s
funniest moment. ("He's using us as pawns." "Or prawns.") THe
aforementioned Spike "hospital" comment was classic, as was
Xander's, "Well, Dru was insane." And for a silly MOW, Olaf the Troll
was pretty entertaining. No, not really scary, but he gave us some
funny lines, some Anya/Anyanka backstory, and gave Xander some very un-
buttmonkeylike stuff to do.
Of course there were some issues: the hammer in the head, sure. Yes,
we all know that Anya really DOES know how to drive. Fine, okay, minor
quibbles. For me: the character interaction, moving forward on the
Anya/Willow stuff, the humor, and the final, somewhat chilling scene
ALL worked well for me. This is one of the best of the season (9.5 out
of 10), in my humble opinion, and one I will watch over and over again.
Thanks for reading (and handling my parenthetical pauses). Comments,
anyone?
--
Kev
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
Mariner
Kev Quigley <bookm...@my-deja.com> wrote:
spoiler
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stuck
in
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in
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The scene with Buffy and Dawn in her
> bedroom - including the now-common sisterly gesture of rubbing Dawn's
> hair - was played for all the pathos possible ... but dealt with it
> well. Buffy didn't get sappy here, she didn't go crazy - and that's
> because this was the scene in the episode that discussed the breakup
> seriously.
I really, really liked the Buffy and Dawn scene. It was very warm and
sisterly, with good chemistry between SMG and MT. Dawn's reaction --
the sympathy, the concerned questions about how Buffy's dealing and
whether or not it will get better -- made her seem very real both as a
concerned sibling and as a young girl with no romantic experience who's
seeing her sister's pain and wondering if this whole dating thing is
even worth getting into. And there were nice little touches like the
way Buffy kept not looking up from her magazine throughout most of the
conversation. That whole scene just came together really well for me.
--
Mariner
mc...@hotmail.com
Nick Rheinwald
> Anya/Willow stuff, the humor, and the final, somewhat chilling scene
> ALL worked well for me. This is one of the best of the season (9.5
> out of 10), in my humble opinion, and one I will watch over and over
> again.
>
> Thanks for reading (and handling my parenthetical pauses). Comments,
> anyone?
I wouldn't give it that high of a score, but you're right on the mark
about the character interaction. That is very possibly Jane Espenson's
strongest suit (see "Band Candy," "Gingerbread," and "The
Replacement"), and it definitely showed in "Triangle." Even though the
troll is a weak and overly silly MOW (not that it isn't funny at
times), it doesn't ruin the episode because the emphasis is on the
characters. As I said before, I enjoyed watching "Triangle," and I
didn't enjoy any of the previous three episodes, so I only see good
things happening.
--Nick
--
"Okay, two words I don’t like right off
the bat, “tomb” and “unearthed”. People,
you gotta leave your tombs earthed."
--Cordelia
Daryl McCullough
>...One poster
Me
>...called it this season's "Beer Bad"
>(which, in my humble opinion, was not a bad episode, per se)
If you think that "Beer Bad" wasn't bad, and neither
was this one, then that justifies my linking the two.
They are both over-the-top slapstick comedies. They
both involve consuming mass quantities and people
getting bonked on the head, but not seriously hurt.
They both involve Buffy acting in an uncharacteristically
comic way. They both involve the aftermath of a Buffy
breakup. They both involve magic going awry (and much
hilarity ensues).
My guess is that the people who liked one will like
the other, and the people who disliked one will dislike
the other. We'll see.
--
Daryl McCullough
dorthsteve
Daryl McCullough <da...@cogentex.com> wrote in message
news:93ipn...@drn.newsguy.com...
Well, I thought "Beer Bad" was mildly entertaining, but this one
embarrassingly bad.
But perhaps my judgement is clouded by my preference for
beer.....mmmmmm.....beer......
Martha Hughes
I thought Beer Bad was funny and Triangle annoying.
>
> --
> Daryl McCullough
>
Nicholas Pietrzak
their slapstick moments... and BtVS was WAAAAY overdue for one.
-nick
"Daryl McCullough" <da...@cogentex.com> wrote in message
news:93ipn...@drn.newsguy.com...
Daniel Solomon
<93ilg7$j6o$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>:
>Also, what many people seem to be forgetting is that "Triangle" ... is
>a COMEDY!
But isn't a comedy supposed to be funny?
--
Daniel Solomon, dsol...@enteract.com
"No amount of planning will ever replace dumb luck."
BOOPSIE51
>first wave of replies very much in favor of it, and the second wave
>absolutely hating it. One poster called it this season's "Beer Bad"
>(which, in my humble opinion, was not a bad episode, per se) and David
>Hines - in his usual negative way - lambasted it with one star and
>called it "...a stinker, through and through."
Hi Kev!! You can consider me one of the people who genuinely liked Triangle. It
felt like a breath of fresh air after suffering through an episode like Into
the Woods which is my personal pick for worst of the season so far. The only
saving grace of Into the Woods is that it rids us of Riley once and for all
along with verifying that he is a complete insecure macho idiot.To me, Beer Bad
was harmless silly fun and a filler episode like Go Fish. I thought that
Triangle was silly in parts but contributed more to character development and
some movement in the season arc.
>Now, I watch BUFFY each week with a varied group of
people, and while
>we often disagree on points of each show, we often agree with the
>episode as a whole. One of our members absolutely hated - HATED -
>Riley, but (unlike some) did not let her hatred of one character taint
>her view of the show (though sh
>hough she did yell at the screen when he was
>on. Also grumbled.) One of David Hines' (and others) major complaints
>with "Triangle" is that they spent WAY too much time discussing Riley.
I'm probably the same type of Riley hater that your friend is in that I simply
found other things to enjoy about the show and tried to tolerate him on screen
as best as I could. And, despite my being *ecstatic* that he's gone, I like to
think of myself as a realist in the sense that Riley's departure *had* to be
discussed!! Buffy's one night stand with Parker was mulled over for three
entire episodes--she was with Riley for an entire year and had a far more
serious relationship with him than she did with Parker!! It goes without saying
that a loss like that *has* to be addressed. However, I actually liked the idea
that it was played for comic effect and SMG was deliberately a bit over-the-top
in the crying scenes. I liked seeing Buffy do some verbalizing about her loss
which she *never* did before--indicates to me that she might really be growing
up and I enjoy seeing that. It makes her human and, most of all, likable to me
again!!
>Okay, let's think back to how long it took Buffy to get over Angel -
>heck, PARKER - and realize that the ten minutes of screen time
>discussing the Riley departure was probably warranted.
As my comments above indicate, I am in total agreement with you, Kev!!
>lso, what many
people seem to be forgetting is that "Triangle" ... is
>a COMEDY! That's right! Like any BUFFY episode, there's some blending
>of drama and comedy (I think a lot of the "dark comedy" is still there,
>by the way - check Spike's turning to Xander and asking, "Where do you
>ink? Hospital, or...?") The scene with Buffy and Dawn in her
>bedroom - including the now-common sisterly gesture of rubbing Dawn's hair
> was played for all the pathos possible ... but dealt with it
>well. Buffy didn't get sappy here, she didn't go crazy - and that's
>because this was the scene in the episode that discussed the breakup
>seriously. Later on, in the scene
>with Tara, the over-the-top
>stuff ... was on purpose! Buffy thinks she's dealing perfectly fine,
>and she is, to a point. She's overcompensating and trying to over-
>protect Xander and Anya's relationship. (Remember when she first found
>ut about Dawn being The Key? She went crazy overprotective.)
> end breakdown started off very cathartic, and I was glad to see her
>getting it out of her system. Her calling Xander and Anya's
>love "magical" was funny to outsiders - especially us viewers - but for
>Buffy, it was just her way of asserting that they should stay happy.
>Avoid the mistakes that she and Riley made.
>lso, a lot of odd pairings made this episode unique: Buffy and Tara
>discussing class? Xander and Spike playing pool? Willow and Anya ...
>doing everything? All odd pairings, and they all worked extremely
>well. It shows the show still has fresh avenues to explore, and that
>the actors really take to playing off different people. I, for one,
>would love to see Xander and Tara hanging out, or some more Buffy and
>Anya stuff.
>
>The throwaway lines worked GREAT, as well: Any mention of Amy always
>makes me cheer for the continuity department. Sure, it's a plot thread
>that was never resolved. So what? If they resolved all the plot
>threads, the show would end. Also part of the continuity: the universe
>with no shrimp. Way to go, Ms. Espenson, for remembering "Superstar"'s
>funniest moment. ("He's using us as
>wns." "Or prawns.") THe
>aforementioned Spike "hospital" comment was classic, as was
>Xander's, "Well, Dru was insane." And for a silly MOW, Olaf the Troll
>was pretty entertaining. No, not really scary, but he gave us some
>y lines, some Anya/Anyanka backstory, and gave Xander some very un-
>buttmonkeylike stuff to do.
>
When I contributed my comments to the five star
poll, I stated that one of the things that I enjoyed about this episode was
seeing a "balanced Buffy" once again. We got to see her training, slaying,
interacting with the Scoobs, Giles, Tara, Spike and her family. We also got to
see her at home *and* at school which was almost shocking to see--I had almost
forgotten that Buffy was still in school!! All of the supporting cast got
well-deserved screentime and some actual character development as I mentioned
above!! I thought that the episode was pretty funny and I found a lot to laugh
at. It was nice to see the drama and comedy blended again. I felt as if this
episode echoed season one(a season I enjoyed *very* much) except that everyone
was seen in a more grown-up version although I will say that Willow was the
most annoying element at times. Some of her babyish mannerisms have *got* to
go!! I also did *not* like her callous disregard when she just helped herself
to items in the magic shop. Anya was right.I had also said that Giles was
treated with respect in this episode--too bad that his shop didn't get the same
kind of respect!!! But, *when* Giles was on camera, he was not made to look
like a buffoon which I have been tired of seeing. With that being said, I must
also mention that Jane Espenson did a decent job this time out. I had thought
that Earshot was the last episode of hers that I really enjoyed but I also
liked Pangs and The Replacement a lot so she has been a lot more consistent in
my book than Marti Noxon!! I *do* agree that the shrimp comment was the only
funny thing aboout Superstar--I hated that episode!!
>Of course there were some issues: the hammer in the head, sure. Yes,
>we all know that Anya really DOES know how to drive. Fine, okay, minor
>quibbles. For me: the character interaction, moving forward on the
>Anya/Willow stuff, the humor, and the final, somewhat chilling scene
>ALL worked well for me. This is one of the best of the season (9.5
>out
>of 10), in my humble opinion, and one I will watch over and over again.
>
>Thanks for reading (and handling my parenthetical pauses). Comments,
>anyone?
>
>
Kev, I chose this thread(outside of the five star poll to which I always
contribute!!) as the only one in which I will comment about Triangle because I
agree with just about all of your points and am happy to add a few of my
own.Wanted to also mention that I like seeing Spike as the nasty bastard that
he *really* is. He looked pathetic in places but this episode clearly
illustrated that he and Buffy would *never* work in a million years. I've
*never* been fond of lovelorn Spike and I'm happy that Buffy considers him
disgusting!!( the copping a feel moment proved that!!) I want him dechipped and
turned back into the badass that he is. Beating up the mannequin should help
people to remember how violent, unpredictable and evil he really is. His
comments indicate that he will *never* willingly reform which would be a
travesty to his character. The writers have butchered him enough--romantically
pairing him with Buffy is nauseating to the nth degree!! He needs to revert to
the villain that he is supposed to be and either get staked in the Buffy season
finale or move over to Angel and help out Dru and Darla which would make Angel
even more nuts!! With that all being said, an episode like Triangle has me
*really* looking forward to the rest of the season!! I feel as if this show is
on an uphill trend and, even with episodes like Into the Woods, season five has
surpassed season four by leaps and bounds already!! I can understand why some
people hated this episode. It *was* more of a comedy with dramatic elements but
I feel that there is more subjectivity in comedy than in drama. For example,
many found the aforementioned Superstar hilarious--I did not!! I also wouldn't
call Triangle a masterpiece but, for me, it was a good solid episode and it was
*much* better than Beer Bad although neither episode will ever be on my
personal top ten list!! However, I was glad to see that a lot of people enjoyed
Triangle because I think that it puts this show on the right track for the rest
of the season. Nice to see that they aren't repeating the major mistakes of
season four and are proceeding in a different direction!! Thanks for the
positive comments, Kev--they pretty much summed up my own feelings about
Triangle--it's about time that we got some comedy after all that angst!! Here's
to a "balanced Buffy" once more!! Most sincerely, Angela
Daryl McCullough
>
>Mark me down as one who loved both. Even Shakespearean tragedies gotta have
>their slapstick moments... and BtVS was WAAAAY overdue for one.
See. I wasn't knocking "Triangle" by comparing
it to "Beer Bad", I was just being insightful...Yeah,
that's the ticket!
--
Daryl McCullough
CoGenTex, Inc.
Ithaca, NY
Daryl McCullough
>I thought Beer Bad was funny and Triangle annoying.
Okay, there's one vote against my thesis.
Daryl McCullough
>Well, I thought "Beer Bad" was mildly entertaining, but this one
>embarrassingly bad.
>
>But perhaps my judgement is clouded by my preference for
>beer.....mmmmmm.....beer......
Come on! There was beer in "Triangle"! (Even if the stupid
Troll called it "ale")
All right. Another vote against my thesis.
Shawn Hill
: Kev says...
:>...One poster
: Me
: My guess is that the people who liked one will like
: the other, and the people who disliked one will dislike
: the other. We'll see.
I didn't care for the main story in either (another similarity: brutish oafs
wreacking havoc because 'boys are bad'), but I liked the character bits in
both. BB was where Willow refused to be seduced by Parker, and Triangle was
where Xander refused to take sides between the women he loves.
Shawn
Shawn Hill
: Also, a lot of odd pairings made this episode unique: Buffy and Tara
: discussing class? Xander and Spike playing pool? Willow and Anya ...
: doing everything? All odd pairings, and they all worked extremely
: well. It shows the show still has fresh avenues to explore, and that
: the actors really take to playing off different people. I, for one,
: would love to see Xander and Tara hanging out, or some more Buffy and
: Anya stuff.
It was interesting to hear that Buffy was so in favor of Xander/Anya. Quite a
turnaround from her attacks on his choice of lovers in ITW. Almost as if she
somehow heard his avowal of love at the end of that ep.
I think there is some Tara/Xander stuff left open. He's the one who complained
most about not knowing her in "Family", and I thought it telling when he
dropped by the magic shop and changed his line from "My two favorite girls," to
"*three* favorite girls" when he saw Tara there beside Willow and Anya.
I guess if Buffy and Dawn were there he'd have to say "five," and then if Joyce
stopped by, well, we all know how he feels about her .....
Plus there's all that unresolved lesbotic fantasy stuff with Tara/Willow in all
the makeup from Restless.....yikes! What if Tara one day cheats on Willow
... w/Xander?
Shawn
~~***~~*~*~*~*~*~~~~*~~*~*~~~**~*~*~*~*~*~**~**~*
"What I really want is for Cassie to be on that
island ... and I mean without her blowdryer."
-- dinah to sean
sh...@fas.harvard.edu*~*~**~~*~*~**~*~*~**~*~**~*
John Schilling
>Martha says...
>>I thought Beer Bad was funny and Triangle annoying.
>Okay, there's one vote against my thesis.
Make that two. I recognized "Triangle" as a attempted comedy, but it
just kept missing. I only occasionally smiled, and never laughed.
"Beer Bad", made me laugh.
Part of the problem, IMHO, is that "Triangle" tried to make comedy out
of material the show is simultaneously trying to sell as angstily serious
drama, and wasn't willing to step outside that framework. There was never
a serious alcoholism theme on the show, and Buffy/Parker was on its way
out when "Beer Bad" came around, so that episode had full license to trash
its targets for comedic effect.
--
*John Schilling * "Anything worth doing, *
*Member:AIAA,NRA,ACLU,SAS,LP * is worth doing for money" *
*Chief Scientist & General Partner * -13th Rule of Acquisition *
*White Elephant Research, LLC * "There is no substitute *
*schi...@spock.usc.edu * for success" *
*661-951-9107 or 661-275-6795 * -58th Rule of Acquisition *
DesertRoaz
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>
>Kev, I chose this thread(outside of the five star poll to which I always
>contribute!!) as the only one in which I will comment about Triangle because
>I
>agree with just about all of your points and am happy to add a few of my
>own.Wanted to also mention that I like seeing Spike as the nasty bastard that
>he *really* is. He looked pathetic in places but this episode clearly
>illustrated that he and Buffy would *never* >work in a million years.
I can see how this episode would please Buffy/Spike Anti-Shippers -- and it
clearly did, although David Hines, who is one of you, didn't like the ep for
reasons of his own. However, I don't see why someone who wants badass Spike
back, as you say you do later in your post, would be so pleased. I think this
episode points toward Spike continuing to try to reform to please Buffy...and
that "what does it take" line is a foreshadowing. Spike will find out just
what it does take and my bet is that he'll do it. Marti Noxon said Buffy is
going to find out there is an exception to every rule, and that Spike is going
in this direction for a reason.
I wouldn't hold my breath for Badass Spike if I were you. I think you'll be
disappointed. I'm just hoping he won't continue to snivel around Buffy's heels
like a whipped dog. I love the idea of Spike/Buffy but not if it means Spike
being completely emasculated.
DesertRoaz
I may be Spike's bitch but at least I'm woman enough to admit it.
John Brewer
Daryl McCullough wrote:
I liked Triangle but did not like Beer Bad at all.
BOOPSIE51
Hi Rose!! First of all, I *finally* want to wish you a happy new year and I
also hope that you had a great holiday!! Even though I qualify as a Buffy/Spike
Anti-Shipper, I have to say that I completely agree with your comments which
include all the reasons why I *don't* want Buffy and Spike together.In my own
opinion, the *only* way that Spike could be with Buffy *is* to be the whipped
dog that you described. I *can't* imagine Spike with Buffy unless they totally
emasculate the character and reform him in order to make him acceptable for
Buffy. You are probably right that I will end up being disappointed and that
I'll never see the badass Spike that I enjoyed *so* much!!! I *loved* him as an
adversary to Buffy and Angel and will simply refer back to my The Harsh Light
of Day/In the Dark tape as my last good memory of Spike!!! It really is a shame
because the original Spike was a wonderful character and I *have* to give James
Marsters credit for making *anything* that he does on screen interesting even
if I don't agree with the concept or the direction that the character is being
taken in. In a weird way, you and I are on the same page Rose!! I could
tolerate a one-shot deal of Mortal Enemy sex if Spike was his evil self!!
Perhaps, Buffy could think that Spike has changed, but he gets the chip out,
they have sex, Buffy finds out he's still evil---Rose, I've got to stop
here!!!! You've got me going to some pretty dark places and I might even like
it!!!! Most sincerely, Angela
DesertRoaz
>From: boop...@aol.com (BOOPSIE51)
>Date: 1/11/2001 1:04 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <20010111160453...@ng-cl1.aol.com>
I had a wonderful, beautiful Christmas but was sick as a dog on New Years. So
it was 50/50! :) Hope your holidays went well!
> Even though I qualify as a
>Buffy/Spike
>Anti-Shipper, I have to say that I completely agree with your comments which
>include all the reasons why I *don't* want Buffy and Spike together.In my own
>opinion, the *only* way that Spike could be with Buffy *is* to be the whipped
>dog that you described.
I think they can be together in some way for at least a brief time without
Spike being a whipped dog. Whether that WILL happen is another thing entirely.
;)
<snip>
>Perhaps, Buffy could think that Spike has changed, but he gets the chip out,
>they have sex, Buffy finds out he's still evil---Rose, I've got to stop
>here!!!! You've got me going to some pretty dark places and I might even like
>it!!!! Most sincerely, Angela
>
That's it. I'm just too dangerous to live, if I can corrupt Angela. <g>
Don Sample
<dy...@seascape.ns.ca> wrote:
Count me as liking both of them.
Neither are in my top 20 list for best episode, but they aren't in my
bottom 20 list either.
--
Don Sample, dsa...@synapse.net
Visit the Buffy Body Count at http://www.synapse.net/~dsample/BBC
Quando omni flunkus moritati
Daniel Solomon
<20010111120923...@ng-cp1.aol.com>:
>Hi Kev!! You can consider me one of the people who genuinely liked
>Triangle. It felt like a breath of fresh air after suffering through an
>episode like Into the Woods which is my personal pick for worst of the
>season so far. The only saving grace of Into the Woods is that it rids
>us of Riley once and for all along with verifying that he is a complete
>insecure macho idiot.To me, Beer Bad was harmless silly fun and a filler
>episode like Go Fish. I thought that Triangle was silly in parts but
>contributed more to character development and some movement in the
>season arc.
I've seen this mentioned by a few people, but I would really like to know
what sort of character development you could have gotten out of "Triangle"?
Willow and Anya were exactly the same at the end of the episode as they
were at the beginning, and I didn't even sense any sort of resolution to
their squabble. Buffy was just dealing with the Riley departure, and all
Xander parts were nothing new. The only thing this episode had was a
gratuitous Spike/Buffy grope and a small possible lead-in to some Giles/COW
arc development. They did utilize all of the characters in the episode,
but there was no actual development to any of them.
Don Sample
Solomon <dsol...@enteract.com> wrote:
Willow and Anya *aren't* exactly the same at the end. Their last
interaction is them congratulating each other on how well they did
their bits in the fight against Olaf. Willow congratulates Anya for
how good a job she did distracting him, and Anya congratulates Willow
for the spell that took his hammer away from him. They both seemed to
have learned that they are not really a threat to one another for
Xander's affections. Willow's his friend and Anya's his lover. He
cares for both of them, and they both care for him.
Xander got to see Anya offering her life for his, so he got further
confirmation that he isn't just a boy toy to her, and she got to see
him risking his life for her.
Noella
"Shawn Hill" <sh...@fas.harvard.edu> wrote in message
news:93ksi3$jii$8...@news.fas.harvard.edu...
That is a scary thought that actually never crossed my mind...but I find it
intriguing. :)
Daniel Solomon
<110120012107243996%dsa...@synapse.net>:
But only because the writer seemed to declare this. Willow and Anya did
absolutely nothing to assuage their respective concerns. Suddenly at the
end everything is all fine and dandy? I have a hard time believing that
Willow would completely drop her animosity towards Anya merely from the
events that we saw. Willow has been on Anya's case for the longest time,
and like most of what she claimed, I don't believe for a moment that her
major concern is just that Xander may get hurt. At least, not if you
compare her behavior in past episodes towards Anya, or even her complete
disregard for Xander in "Pangs". Perhaps we can chalk it up to writer's
inconsistency (though weren't both episodes written by Jane Espenson?) but
I just didn't see anything more than writer fiat going on at the end.
THON...@webtv.net
>If you think that "Beer Bad" wasn't bad, and neither
>was this one, then that justifies my linking the two.
>They are both over-the-top slapstick comedies. They
>both involve consuming mass quantities and people
>getting bonked on the head, but not seriously hurt.
>They both involve Buffy acting in an
>uncharacteristically comic way. They both involve
>the aftermath of a Buffy breakup. They both involve
>magic going awry (and much hilarity ensues).
>My guess is that the people who liked one will like
>the other, and the people who disliked one will
>dislike the other. We'll see.
Well Daryl, maybe you're right. I always have liked "Beer Bad", and I
liked "Triangle even more. I wouldn't want every episode to be this
silly any more than I would want them all to be as bleak as the last
couple. But, if I had to choose a specific type of episode that BtVS
does best, it would probably be slapstick comedy. (I really enjoyed
"Superstar" as well.) At any rate an even mix is definitely a good
thing.
Victoria L.
>
>But only because the writer seemed to declare this. Willow and Anya did
>absolutely nothing to assuage their respective concerns. Suddenly at the
>end everything is all fine and dandy? I have a hard time believing that
>Willow would completely drop her animosity towards Anya merely from the
>events that we saw. Willow has been on Anya's case for the longest time,
>and like most of what she claimed, I don't believe for a moment that her
>major concern is just that Xander may get hurt. At least, not if you
>compare her behavior in past episodes towards Anya, or even her complete
>disregard for Xander in "Pangs". Perhaps we can chalk it up to writer's
>inconsistency (though weren't both episodes written by Jane Espenson?) but
>I just didn't see anything more than writer fiat going on at the end.
>
>
I think there's a legitimate change going on. Willow and Anya have had to team
up together to fight the troll, they both know in their hearts they were both
at fault, they have learned that Xander loves them both, and Willow has learned
that Anya does love Xander. There ought to be some softening in attitude
toward each other after all of this, though Willow's concerns are not entirely
laid to rest and trouble ought to readily spark up again.
Victoria
Miss March
Sarah Trombley
Victoria L. <vik...@aol.com> wrote:
>Daniel Solomon wrote:
>
>>
>>But only because the writer seemed to declare this. Willow and Anya did
>>absolutely nothing to assuage their respective concerns. Suddenly at the
>>end everything is all fine and dandy? I have a hard time believing that
>>Willow would completely drop her animosity towards Anya merely from the
>>events that we saw. Willow has been on Anya's case for the longest time,
>>and like most of what she claimed, I don't believe for a moment that her
>>major concern is just that Xander may get hurt. At least, not if you
>>compare her behavior in past episodes towards Anya, or even her complete
>>disregard for Xander in "Pangs". Perhaps we can chalk it up to writer's
>>inconsistency (though weren't both episodes written by Jane Espenson?) but
>>I just didn't see anything more than writer fiat going on at the end.
>>
>>
>
>I think there's a legitimate change going on. Willow and Anya have had to team
>up together to fight the troll, they both know in their hearts they were both
>at fault, they have learned that Xander loves them both, and Willow has
>learned
>that Anya does love Xander.
But why? Because Anya said she did? I'm sure Willow has heard that before
from her.
--Sarah T.
Don Sample
<trom...@is05.fas.harvard.edu> wrote:
I think the "Don't kill Xander, kill me instead!" counts a lot.
Sarah Trombley
Not as much as "Oh, Xander, you're leaving me? Bye!" will.
--Sarah T.
Corwin2
>> Plus there's all that unresolved lesbotic fantasy stuff with
>> Tara/Willow in all > the makeup from Restless.....yikes!
>> What if Tara one day cheats on Willow ... w/Xander?
>>
>
>That is a scary thought that actually never crossed my mind...but I
>find it intriguing. :)
Then evil Willow and evil Anya can console each other and cast a nasty
spell. D'Hoffryn? will then have two vengeance demons working
for him.
(J)
Victoria L.
Heh, perhaps you're right. But yeah, offering to die in Xander's place showed
Willow that Anya genuinely loved him. Also, she wasn't just saying "kill me
instead of Xander," she was saying, "Stop torturing Xander and kill me, as if I
were Xander's choice to be killed instead of Willow." That does show
generosity of spirit too.
All of this is not to say but what Anya could still turn into a towering vortex
of vengeance should Xander ever develop a roving eye. But at least she means
well.
Victoria
Miss March
COLIERRANND2
>vortex
>of vengeance should Xander ever develop a roving eye. But at least she means
>well.
And Btw, how come Xander doesnt have a roving eye? Its like he doesnt ever find
anyone else attractive. And thats just wierd.
Col
Sean Daugherty
wrote:
>> Plus there's all that unresolved lesbotic fantasy stuff with Tara/Willow in all
>> the makeup from Restless.....yikes! What if Tara one day cheats on Willow
>> ... w/Xander?
>>
>
>That is a scary thought that actually never crossed my mind...but I find it
>intriguing. :)
I dunno. It seems a little too similar to the whole situation with
Xander, Willow, Cordy, and Oz in season three. Not that I neccessarily
believe X/A or W/T need stay together forever (though I do like both
relationships), but when and if they do break up, it would be nice to
see a more original take on it....