AOQ Review 4-5: "Beer Bad"
Arbitrar Of Quality
threads.
BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
Season Four, Episode 5: "Beer Bad"
(or "You ever think of using articles, or personal pronouns?"
"No! Blorric risk truncation in interest of terseness. Superfluous
speech obfuscate meaning, lead to bombast.")
Writer: Tracey Forbes
Director: David Solomon
I know I'm hard to predict sometimes, but did anyone imagine I could
possibly like this one?
Like so many BTVS designated "comedy" episodes (and this is the
third primarily-comedy outing of the first five this year;
whassupwitdat?), BB starts with quieter character moments, and does
better with those than with the big gag. It starts with a silly dream
opening in which Buffy looks especially hot (it's a good week for
Gellar in that regard; she even looks pretty good later in transformed
form) and we rather ham-handedly introduce our theme of raging id.
Some nice banter early on with the Scoobies (especially Willow's sob
story), and the "bartending turns out to be harder than Xander
thought" bit is wisely kept to a minimum; I was so sure they'd push
that to excess. Eventually a group of kids start to impose their
identity as future of the country on the episode. I got a kick out of
their drunken attempts to be all deep and stuff, and the basic conceit
of these characters pre-transformation is good: they're just the
high-school jock-clique at heart, but they know how to use higher
education to make it more societally acceptable. The line of the show,
for my money, is "there will be no Thomas Aquinas at this table!"
No idea what the deal is with this Willow/Oz story. He's acting all
weird and stuff, and transfixed by the singer in the Bronze. Is she
the same chick who people were mentioning in their comments (I don't
remember her) about "Living Conditions?" Willow's later
man-hating sentiments probably tell us something about her headspace,
so let me suggest that now would be a very good time for Oz to turn on
that ability of his to see to the root of an issue and respond
appropriately.
Sadly, all of the little stuff is just leading up to our alleged big
joke, which has the beer spiked so as to turn its drinkers into cavemen
("They're not cavemen." "They look like cavemen." "Do they live in
caves?" "Well ..." - _The Restaurant At The End Of The Universe_).
This causes them to jump around a lot and use telegraphic speech,
basically. Buffy once again surrenders to her seize-the-moment
impulses, due to feeling crappy over what happened the last time she
did that. And I'd say that it works about as well... except that
things don't actually end up too badly for her, all things
considered. Kind of a confusing lesson. But, of course, the end of
the episode consciously rejects the idea of anything this stupid really
having a lesson to teach.
So I'm classifying BB as an attempt at comedy because this stuff is
way too silly to be taken seriously (a "serious" scarier
id-gone-wild story would look more like "The Pack"). But
ultimately, the question is, where's the funny? With something like
"Band Candy," even though I got fed up with the basic joke, it took
about fifteen minutes before that happened, and I can even kinda see
why someone with a different sense of humor than me would find it
hilarious throughout. (The near-universal love for "Blighted,
Bothersome, and Bitch-filled," on the other hand, is unfathomable to
me.) "Beer Bad" is designed around a joke that can't possibly be
expected to support the weight of an episode. Furthermore, it isn't
specific to the characters in question (not a requirement, but it
almost always helps); everyone affected by the beer acts pretty much
the same. I can't really imagine any reaction other than chuckling
at the wanton stupidity a few times, and then getting bored. Is there
really anyone out there continues to find it entertaining to watch
Buffy grunting "Buffy want BEER!" over and over by the time we're
thirty-five minutes into the episode? The use of Xander as the
straightman/sensible one through all this helps at least keep things
from getting too agonizing.
Meanwhile Willow is chatting up Parker and getting a sense of his
philosophy of life. We get a good look at how someone can seductively
rationalize a lifestyle that's so blissfully uncaring about the
effects on those whose lives he's "bettered." I was worried
about the writing since I don't see Willow getting taken in by lines
like that. Which, it turns out, she's not. I like the timing on
"just how gullible do you think I am?"
The ending sequence with the rescue from the burning building is a bit
of a mess, especially the intermittent way in which the smoke causes
some of the people to cough some of the time, but not all of the people
all of the time. And it also surprised me that the episode was ending.
That's it? Nothing of note is actually going to happen? Further
hammering home the point that while BB isn't appallingly bad, it
seems pretty worthless (although even the lamest episodes tend to start
story threads that outlive them, so who knows?). And although I
suppose it's nice to see Buffy smack Parker upside the head (twice)
with a blunt object, if that's the end of this particular story,
well, you know how I get sometimes about characters getting over their
problems through a magical device rather than actually facing them.
Buffy isn't herself when she finally rejects her earlier fantasy and
gives him what he deserves, so it's not the catharsis it could've
been.
I wonder if Xander still has a job after this?
This Is Really Stupid But I Laughed Anyway moment(s):
- Xander's cigarette lighter (especially the payoff of the gag, with
the no-smoking sign)
- Willow's mimicky-voice when complaining about Oz and Veruca
- "And then group sex?"
- The final moral about beer
So...
One-sentence summary: God, that was dumb.
AOQ rating: Weak
[Season Four so far:
1) "The Freshman" - Good
2) "Living Conditions" - Decent
3) "The Harsh Light Of Day" - Good
4) "Fear Itself" - Decent
5) "Beer Bad" - Weak]
Don Sample
"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
>
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Four, Episode 5: "Beer Bad"
> (or "You ever think of using articles, or personal pronouns?"
> "No! Blorric risk truncation in interest of terseness. Superfluous
> speech obfuscate meaning, lead to bombast.")
> Writer: Tracey Forbes
> Director: David Solomon
>
>
> No idea what the deal is with this Willow/Oz story. He's acting all
> weird and stuff, and transfixed by the singer in the Bronze. Is she
> the same chick who people were mentioning in their comments (I don't
> remember her) about "Living Conditions?"
Yes, it's the same girl.
> AOQ rating: Weak
A lot of people will agree with you on this one, but Beer Bad has always
been one of my guilty pleasures. "Giles, don't make Caveslayer unhappy."
I really didn't have much to say about this one, first time around:
Beer, Bad. Points to Ponder.
I think. (I *hope*!) That Buffy has finally gotten Parker out of her
system. She has come to the realization that what Parker is doing is
Parker's problem, not hers, even before she gets into the beer, and
later when Parker appologizes to her, using pretty much the exact
phrasing from her daydreaming earlier, she clocks him.
Who's van is that anyway? I think it would be more poetic justice if
it turns out to be Parker's.
--
Quando omni flunkus moritati
Visit the Buffy Body Count at <http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/>
kim
news:1145327056.5...@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> - The final moral about beer
The 'final moral' was surely about Parker getting his comeuppence and was
well-worth viewing for that moment alone. There was no option open to Buffy
other than hitting him over the head neandertal style. That's how I read it
anyway.
(kim)
Arbitrar Of Quality
kim wrote:
> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1145327056.5...@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> > - The final moral about beer
>
FOAMY!
-AOQ
One Bit Shy
news:1145327056.5...@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Four, Episode 5: "Beer Bad"
> (or "You ever think of using articles, or personal pronouns?"
> "No! Blorric risk truncation in interest of terseness. Superfluous
> speech obfuscate meaning, lead to bombast.")
> Writer: Tracey Forbes
> Director: David Solomon
>
> I know I'm hard to predict sometimes, but did anyone imagine I could
> possibly like this one?
I had hopes that your perverse side would win out.
> Like so many BTVS designated "comedy" episodes (and this is the
> third primarily-comedy outing of the first five this year;
> whassupwitdat?), BB starts with quieter character moments, and does
> better with those than with the big gag. It starts with a silly dream
> opening in which Buffy looks especially hot (it's a good week for
> Gellar in that regard; she even looks pretty good later in transformed
> form) and we rather ham-handedly introduce our theme of raging id.
I think she looks *great* transformed. It's one of my favorite looks for
her.
Anyway, the thing about the silly dream opener that gets me is that the
fight sequence is pretty damn good.
> Some nice banter early on with the Scoobies (especially Willow's sob
> story), and the "bartending turns out to be harder than Xander
> thought" bit is wisely kept to a minimum; I was so sure they'd push
> that to excess.
It may be dumb... (Who am I kidding? Everything's dumb!) But I kind of
liked the lighter as conversation gambit becoming "Fire angry!" and then
later a real angry fire. I'm easily entertained.
> Eventually a group of kids start to impose their
> identity as future of the country on the episode. I got a kick out of
> their drunken attempts to be all deep and stuff, and the basic conceit
> of these characters pre-transformation is good: they're just the
> high-school jock-clique at heart, but they know how to use higher
> education to make it more societally acceptable. The line of the show,
> for my money, is "there will be no Thomas Aquinas at this table!"
>
> No idea what the deal is with this Willow/Oz story. He's acting all
> weird and stuff, and transfixed by the singer in the Bronze. Is she
> the same chick who people were mentioning in their comments (I don't
> remember her) about "Living Conditions?"
Yes.
> Willow's later
> man-hating sentiments probably tell us something about her headspace,
> so let me suggest that now would be a very good time for Oz to turn on
> that ability of his to see to the root of an issue and respond
> appropriately.
Sounds like a good idea to me.
> Sadly, all of the little stuff is just leading up to our alleged big
> joke,
Well, it leads up to Willow and Parker too. And Buffy and Parker - though
that connects to the caveman stuff.
> which has the beer spiked so as to turn its drinkers into cavemen
> ("They're not cavemen." "They look like cavemen." "Do they live in
> caves?" "Well ..." - _The Restaurant At The End Of The Universe_).
> This causes them to jump around a lot and use telegraphic speech,
> basically. Buffy once again surrenders to her seize-the-moment
> impulses, due to feeling crappy over what happened the last time she
> did that. And I'd say that it works about as well... except that
> things don't actually end up too badly for her, all things
> considered. Kind of a confusing lesson. But, of course, the end of
> the episode consciously rejects the idea of anything this stupid really
> having a lesson to teach.
She told you her lesson. Beer foamy.
Interesting expressions on her face during that. What almost looks like
being taken in can be seen in retrospect trying to hold in a giggle.
> The ending sequence with the rescue from the burning building is a bit
> of a mess, especially the intermittent way in which the smoke causes
> some of the people to cough some of the time, but not all of the people
> all of the time.
At least there was smoke indoors this time. That's a step up. We should
assume that there was an air draft of some sort that vented most of the
smoke up the stairs rather than to the back of the room.
> And it also surprised me that the episode was ending.
> That's it? Nothing of note is actually going to happen? Further
> hammering home the point that while BB isn't appallingly bad, it
> seems pretty worthless (although even the lamest episodes tend to start
> story threads that outlive them, so who knows?). And although I
> suppose it's nice to see Buffy smack Parker upside the head (twice)
> with a blunt object, if that's the end of this particular story,
> well, you know how I get sometimes about characters getting over their
> problems through a magical device rather than actually facing them.
> Buffy isn't herself when she finally rejects her earlier fantasy and
> gives him what he deserves, so it's not the catharsis it could've
> been.
Ok. Willow kind of layed out the Parker thing. Metaphorically, Parker was
the caveman. And he got the appropriate come-uppance by being bonked on the
head by cave Buffy. Punishing Parker was probably the main object.
You also saw some interesting slayer manifestations. Cave Buffy was still
The Slayer. Pretty darn effective too. She knew she had to rescue Willow.
She figured out the solution. She knew she needed to bonk Parker - but
rescue him too. And she executed it all with slayer prowess. Buffy strong.
And you saw something brewing with Willow and Oz - though what exactly is
hard to say.
> I wonder if Xander still has a job after this?
You'll just have to find out.
> This Is Really Stupid But I Laughed Anyway moment(s):
> - Xander's cigarette lighter (especially the payoff of the gag, with
> the no-smoking sign)
> - Willow's mimicky-voice when complaining about Oz and Veruca
I love it when Willow gets huffy. Some people just get bitchy. She gets
adorable.
> - "And then group sex?"
"Gutter face. No! Just lots and lots of beer. It's nice. Foamy.
Comforting. It's just... beer." Probably my favorite moment in the
episode. Both for the group sex misunderstanding and the description of
beer.
> - The final moral about beer
>
>
> So...
>
> One-sentence summary: God, that was dumb.
>
> AOQ rating: Weak
It's a dumb episode - literally. Which I suppose is why it seems to have a
poor reputation - though it also appears to be one that people acquire a
taste for later. Like beer.
I like it. I would rate it Good. I think I like it because, unlike most of
the comic episodes, it's an easy comfortable good time. The Willow/Oz
moments are a bit uneasy, but mainly you can sit back and take it easy. I
sure wouldn't want that every episode, but once in a while it's nice to let
go of the angst. Like Buffy did bonking Parker.
You picked out a number of the things that I think are good fun. Some
others that come to mind for me - Buffy crouching on the park bench hovering
over Willow. (How uncomfortable for Willow was that?) - The cave drawings I
thought were kind of cool looking. - Giles emulating Buffy's sideways
limp. - Bumping into Riley. "In my defense you do take up a lot of
space." - Riley trying to be nice. "I guess maybe I'm old fashioned but my
father says that if you wanna be a gentleman you... (Sees that she's
ignoring him) don't even care what my father says."
Anyway, I won't belabor this. Your reaction seems pretty typical to me - at
least for first time. But I still like it.
OBS
MBangel10 (Melissa)
Joss Whedon's personal message found in the S4 DVD Box set: "The
fabulous episodes of BUFFY (and that one crappy one, sorry about that,
seemed really cool when we wrote it...) were not shot in widescreen format.
Exactly what episode does everyone think he's talking about? This one. :)
Although, for some reason I don't think it was all that bad. I laughed a
few times... so at least a few parts amused me.
(bonus points for Cave Buffy fanfic, some of it is hysterical).
KenM47
I thought it was silly, a nothing, when I first saw it. I think I was
bothered by the continuing mooning over pretty boy Parker. And I
didn't like that rebound Buffy somehow figured it was a good idea to
hook up with a bunch of smart asses jerks. It also seemed to have that
hit you over the head message on the dangers of alcohol.
Every time I've watched it since I've liked it more and more. I think
the acting is terrific, particularly SMG. Now I put it between Good(+)
and Excellent(-). CaveBuffy was a terrific character.
I also realize that Xander was getting more and more grown up and
likeable every episode. He stopped the lusting and turned into a true
friend.
And Willow proved she was no easy mark either.
Definitely not at the bottom of my pile of DVDs.
Ken (Brooklyn)
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
>
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Four, Episode 5: "Beer Bad"
> (or "You ever think of using articles, or personal pronouns?"
> "No! Blorric risk truncation in interest of terseness. Superfluous
> speech obfuscate meaning, lead to bombast.")
> Writer: Tracey Forbes
> Director: David Solomon
>
> I know I'm hard to predict sometimes, but did anyone imagine I could
> possibly like this one?
buffy gets to hit parker
buffy gets to hit parker again
thats got to be worth something
also the glare of cave buffy
may have been connected to something primal about slayers
a slayer stripped of the veneer of civilization
might not be pleasant to be around
arf meow arf - nsa fodder
al qaeda terrorism nuclear bomb iran taliban big brother
if you meet buddha on the usenet killfile him
Apteryx
news:1145327056.5...@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
>
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Four, Episode 5: "Beer Bad"
> (or "You ever think of using articles, or personal pronouns?"
> "No! Blorric risk truncation in interest of terseness. Superfluous
> speech obfuscate meaning, lead to bombast.")
> Writer: Tracey Forbes
> Director: David Solomon
>
> I know I'm hard to predict sometimes, but did anyone imagine I could
> possibly like this one?
Well, you did like Ted. And Ted and Beer Bad (along with Bad Eggs and Go
Fish) tend to be equally villified by fans who think the writers have no
business just having fun when they should be pursuing the season arcs with
all the earnestness that that quest deserves. Not that there aren't advances
made in the season arcs in BB.
> education to make it more societally acceptable. The line of the show,
> for my money, is "there will be no Thomas Aquinas at this table!"
I think I'd agree with that for best line, although there isn't much
competition in an episode where visual humour dominates over the verbal.
> me.) "Beer Bad" is designed around a joke that can't possibly be
> expected to support the weight of an episode. Furthermore, it isn't
> specific to the characters in question (not a requirement, but it
> almost always helps); everyone affected by the beer acts pretty much
> the same. I can't really imagine any reaction other than chuckling
> at the wanton stupidity a few times, and then getting bored. Is there
> really anyone out there continues to find it entertaining to watch
> Buffy grunting "Buffy want BEER!" over and over by the time we're
> thirty-five minutes into the episode?
I think the count for "Want beer" from Buffy runs up to 3 by the end of the
episode, with "Buffy" being put in front of it once that I recall. But your
main point is accepted. I actually like this episode. It's got heaps going
for it, Buffy's stupid longings for Parker (epitomised in the pre-title
fantasies), Xander as barman, Willow jealous, the Willow/Parker scene.
Everything except the lame main story in fact. But that takes up what, 15
minutes? And part of that is Cave Buffy, an image I think the series would
be weaker without.
> story threads that outlive them, so who knows?). And although I
> suppose it's nice to see Buffy smack Parker upside the head (twice)
> with a blunt object, if that's the end of this particular story,
> well, you know how I get sometimes about characters getting over their
> problems through a magical device rather than actually facing them.
> Buffy isn't herself when she finally rejects her earlier fantasy and
> gives him what he deserves, so it's not the catharsis it could've
> been.
Much better this way. Buffy shouldn't be using her Higher-Power-given
strength to sort out people who piss her off in her personal life. That way
leads to the dark side to and to Darth Faith. Having her under the influence
(and magical influence at that, so we can't even blame her for getting
drunk) allows her to give Parker his comeupance without crossing that line.
Unless of course with a Slayer's usual fast recovery time, she had in fact
already recovered from the magic beer, and was just pretending to be under
its influence in order to hit Parker one more time at the end.
>
> AOQ rating: Weak
First time I saw it I think my rating would have been similar. But as far as
I can recall, every time I have watched it, I have nudged its rating up just
a little. Its now so close to crossing the ratings boundary that I had set
as corresponding to your terms Good and Decent, that I was tempted to push
it over that boundary and call it Good, just for the reaction from those who
share your view of it. But honesty in ratings prevailed. It is not quite
over that boundary yet (although on its past history it may cross it the
next time I watch it). For the moment it is merely Decent, albeit the 2nd
best Decent episode (after The Zeppo) in the series. Its my 81st favourite
BtVS episode, 13th best in Season 4
--
Apteryx
rcamp...@gmail.com
that even in her de-volved state caveslayer Buffy was still a
protector. She knew enough to try and help the students traped in
the burning building and was the one to come up with the escape route
(proving once more that slayer Buffy is as much about the brains as
she is about the strength). Best use of a fire extinguisher ever.
Don Sample
KenM47 <Ken...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> It also seemed to have that
> hit you over the head message on the dangers of alcohol.
There was a story that the Federal Government was handing out money (or
tax credits or something like that) to TV networks that put
anti-drug/alcohol messages into their shows, so the WB asked for an
episode with an anti-drug/alcohol message in it.
I think that the final bit between Xander and Buffy was Joss's reply to
the WB suits:
Xander: And was there a lesson in all this huh? What did we
learn about beer?
Buffy: Foamy!
Xander: Good! Just as long as that's clear.
MBangel10 (Melissa)
> In article <mtm842h3oo57nhlmq...@4ax.com>,
> KenM47 <Ken...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>> It also seemed to have that
>> hit you over the head message on the dangers of alcohol.
>
> There was a story that the Federal Government was handing out money (or
> tax credits or something like that) to TV networks that put
> anti-drug/alcohol messages into their shows, so the WB asked for an
> episode with an anti-drug/alcohol message in it.
>
> I think that the final bit between Xander and Buffy was Joss's reply to
> the WB suits:
>
> Xander: And was there a lesson in all this huh? What did we
> learn about beer?
> Buffy: Foamy!
> Xander: Good! Just as long as that's clear.
>
Now *that* makes me appreciate the episode all the more. :)
George W Harris
<mban...@comcast.net> wrote:
:Joss Whedon's personal message found in the S4 DVD Box set: "The
:fabulous episodes of BUFFY (and that one crappy one, sorry about that,
:seemed really cool when we wrote it...) were not shot in widescreen format.
:
:Exactly what episode does everyone think he's talking about? This one. :)
Because of course he was being literal and
talking about a specific episode, and not making a
silly joke. He never makes silly jokes in the varies
commentaries.
--
Doesn't the fact that there are *exactly* 50 states seem a little suspicious?
George W. Harris For actual email address, replace each 'u' with an 'i'
Kevin
Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
> So I'm classifying BB as an attempt at comedy because this stuff is
> way too silly to be taken seriously (a "serious" scarier
> id-gone-wild story would look more like "The Pack"). But
> ultimately, the question is, where's the funny? With something like
> "Band Candy," even though I got fed up with the basic joke, it took
> about fifteen minutes before that happened, and I can even kinda see
> why someone with a different sense of humor than me would find it
> hilarious throughout.
Ah, you're already pining for the good ol' days! Well, not pining
exactly, but you're seeing things that have been done better in the
first three seasons. In true usenet fashion, I would like to voice a
hearty "Me too!" Last week it was Fear Itself vs. Nightmares, and now
this... There is great stuff ahead, so don't fret -- but I see a lot
more pining on the horizon as well.
I think, in a few months, you might even like some parts of BBB (if
Mrs. Q. ties you down long enough to replay it).
> I can't really imagine any reaction other than chuckling
> at the wanton stupidity a few times, and then getting bored. Is there
> really anyone out there continues to find it entertaining to watch
> Buffy grunting "Buffy want BEER!" over and over by the time we're
> thirty-five minutes into the episode?
Not me. I'm with you -- God, that was dumb. New writer gets a D-.
--Kevin
Rowan Hawthorn
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
>
>
>
> One-sentence summary: God, that was dumb.
>
> AOQ rating: Weak
>
> [Season Four so far:
> 1) "The Freshman" - Good
> 2) "Living Conditions" - Decent
> 3) "The Harsh Light Of Day" - Good
> 4) "Fear Itself" - Decent
> 5) "Beer Bad" - Weak]
>
Yeah, well... can't really argue with this one. For
probably 90% of the posters (that I've noticed, at any
rate,) this one makes their "absolute worst episode ever"
list. Personally, I think it's kind of funny (mostly for
seeing a bunch of snots like some of the ones I used to know
taken down a peg,) but it's about what it appears to be - a
mild detour. High points for me were Buffy clocking Parker,
Willow cutting Parker off at the knees (figuratively
speaking,) and the looks from Xander & Buffy when Willow
gives Xander her "burned-out drunk" routine. They were
probably amazed that she even knows what Wild Turkey is.
The really sad thing about this episode is that some of the
guys I was in college with could have been put on-screen
without a script and you'd never know the difference...
--
Rowan Hawthorn
"Occasionally, I'm callous and strange." - Willow Rosenberg,
"Buffy the Vampire Slayer"
Rowan Hawthorn
> In article <mtm842h3oo57nhlmq...@4ax.com>,
> KenM47 <Ken...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>
>>It also seemed to have that
>>hit you over the head message on the dangers of alcohol.
>
>
> There was a story that the Federal Government was handing out money (or
> tax credits or something like that) to TV networks that put
> anti-drug/alcohol messages into their shows, so the WB asked for an
> episode with an anti-drug/alcohol message in it.
>
> I think that the final bit between Xander and Buffy was Joss's reply to
> the WB suits:
>
> Xander: And was there a lesson in all this huh? What did we
> learn about beer?
> Buffy: Foamy!
> Xander: Good! Just as long as that's clear.
>
See? There really *was* a lesson in all that!!
Rowan Hawthorn
> In article <1145327056.5...@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
>>threads.
>>
>>
>>BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
>>Season Four, Episode 5: "Beer Bad"
>>(or "You ever think of using articles, or personal pronouns?"
>>"No! Blorric risk truncation in interest of terseness. Superfluous
>>speech obfuscate meaning, lead to bombast.")
>>Writer: Tracey Forbes
>>Director: David Solomon
>>
>>I know I'm hard to predict sometimes, but did anyone imagine I could
>>possibly like this one?
>
>
> buffy gets to hit parker
> buffy gets to hit parker again
>
> thats got to be worth something
>
I'd pay real money to have a front-row seat for the real
thing...
>
> also the glare of cave buffy
> may have been connected to something primal about slayers
>
> a slayer stripped of the veneer of civilization
> might not be pleasant to be around
But, on the plus side, I'd bet street crime would go way
down in a hurry...
Don Sample
Rowan Hawthorn <rowan_h...@hotmail.com> wrote:
I think that street crime in Sunnydale is already pretty low...once you
ignore all the missing persons, and deaths from neck ruptures.
Your run of the mill muggers and such all became vampire food long ago.
Espen Schjønberg
How can someone _not_ like an episode with this kind of message? :-D
--
Espen
Noe er Feil[tm]
MBangel10 (Melissa)
No, that comment never provoked any discussion in the community when the
DVD was released. My bad.
Harry the Horse
news:1145327056.5...@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> One-sentence summary: God, that was dumb.
>
> AOQ rating: Weak
>
entire series. It fails to be funny, and it is also quite po-faced and
preachy about alcohol - Giles to Xander, rebuking him for serving Buffy:
'but you knew it was beer'. Does anyone apart from a few religious nutters
think that give alcohol to a 19 year old is 'bad'?.
The only BTVS episode I have been unable to watch more than once.
kenm47
Now I agree with this post.
And again, SMG was just terrific physically and in her line readings.
The look she gives Parker at the end in the real life replay of the
opening fantasy, just before she hits him again, is dead on perfect (as
were her quizzical looks in the burning bar figuring out, that part of
her that stayewd hero, what to do and how to save all the people. Also:
"Foamy!"
Since we got "Fire bad." kind of a surprise we never got "Tree pretty."
And yes, there were significant developments in the season arcs as
well.
BTW, Willow in fact proved that Parker is the poophead she thought he
was.
Ken (Brooklyn)
vague disclaimer
Yeah, that's pretty much my take. I think I took it as 'enjoyably daft'
at first. Not an episode I have any problem with, and which I still
enjoy as occasional light relief.
Plus the completion of the Holy Trinity: Fire bad, tree pretty, beer
foamy.
--
A vague disclaimer is nobody's friend
Espen Schjønberg
> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1145327056.5...@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
>>One-sentence summary: God, that was dumb.
>>
>>AOQ rating: Weak
>>
>
> Completely agreed. For me, Beer Bad is certainly the worst episode in the
> entire series. It fails to be funny, and it is also quite po-faced and
> preachy about alcohol - Giles to Xander, rebuking him for serving Buffy:
> 'but you knew it was beer'. Does anyone apart from a few religious nutters
> think that give alcohol to a 19 year old is 'bad'?.
I kind of felt it was so goofy, it totally mocked every piece of
anti-alcohol propaganda. Which of course is a super-funnity.
Also, the way the message totally missed Buff in the episode ("Foamy!")
was adorable. But this has been mentioned here.
And actually, Buffy _did_ manage to solve some issues through this beer.
You think they ever really expected this should get them money from that
anti-alcohol fund-thingy? (If it did, nothing would have pleased me
more. On this side of the sample-space.)
If you took this as a serious atempt to tell people beer is bad, I
wonder if I do understand you though.
> The only BTVS episode I have been unable to watch more than once.
Man. Tip from the horses mouth isn't quiet what it used to be.
Rowan Hawthorn
> In article <-qudnf8I1PX...@giganews.com>,
> Rowan Hawthorn <rowan_h...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges wrote:
>
>
>>>also the glare of cave buffy
>>>may have been connected to something primal about slayers
>>>
>>>a slayer stripped of the veneer of civilization
>>>might not be pleasant to be around
>>
>>But, on the plus side, I'd bet street crime would go way
>>down in a hurry...
>
>
> I think that street crime in Sunnydale is already pretty low...once you
> ignore all the missing persons, and deaths from neck ruptures.
>
> Your run of the mill muggers and such all became vampire food long ago.
>
Yes, but I meant in general, not just Sunnydale. A
Neanderthal Slayer lurking around the streets of pretty much
*any* city would likely put a dent in the number of muggers
and rapists running loose. (ER doctor: "Boy, did *you* pick
the wrong girl to mess with. I'll call the police after I
remove your testicles from your spleen...")
Espen Schjønberg
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
>
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Four, Episode 5: "Beer Bad"
> (or "You ever think of using articles, or personal pronouns?"
> "No! Blorric risk truncation in interest of terseness. Superfluous
> speech obfuscate meaning, lead to bombast.")
> Writer: Tracey Forbes
> Director: David Solomon
>
> I know I'm hard to predict sometimes, but did anyone imagine I could
> possibly like this one?
Sorry ;-)
> And although I
> suppose it's nice to see Buffy smack Parker upside the head (twice)
> with a blunt object, if that's the end of this particular story,
> well, you know how I get sometimes about characters getting over their
> problems through a magical device rather than actually facing them.
> Buffy isn't herself when she finally rejects her earlier fantasy and
> gives him what he deserves, so it's not the catharsis it could've
> been.
>
Buffy would never have actually clocked Parker if not drugged. Unlike
some, (does this include you?) I wouldn't have enjoyed it if they wrote
her down to being low enough to do it in a cold, well, mind.
> This Is Really Stupid But I Laughed Anyway moment(s):
[asnip]
> - "And then group sex?"
Totally enjoyable... ;-)
> - The final moral about beer
I do see you noticed when I finally read slow.
Xande...@gmail.com
Espen Schjønberg
> Awful, awful episode. I think I'd also put it as worst of the series.
Are everybody here stoned?
Opus the Penguin
> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
>
>>A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these
>>review
>> threads.
>>
>>
>> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
>> Season Four, Episode 5: "Beer Bad"
>> (or "You ever think of using articles, or personal pronouns?"
>> "No! Blorric risk truncation in interest of terseness.
>> Superfluous speech obfuscate meaning, lead to bombast.")
>> Writer: Tracey Forbes
>> Director: David Solomon
>>
>> I know I'm hard to predict sometimes, but did anyone imagine I
>> could possibly like this one?
>
> Well, you did like Ted.
Forget Ted. He liked Dead Man's Party. That was when I gave up
trying to predict and just waited to find out. For all I knew at that
point he was going to be bored by the new Faith character, fall in
love with Cordelia, and rave about the awesomely realistic CGI snake
at the end of the season.
--
Opus the Penguin
The best darn penguin in all of Usenet
Opus the Penguin
> Completely agreed. For me, Beer Bad is certainly the worst
> episode in the entire series. It fails to be funny, and it is
> also quite po-faced and preachy about alcohol - Giles to Xander,
> rebuking him for serving Buffy: 'but you knew it was beer'. Does
> anyone apart from a few religious nutters think that give alcohol
> to a 19 year old is 'bad'?.
In the US it's against the law. That complicates the question for me at
least.
rrh...@acme.com
Heh. When I saw what episode was being reviewed I immediately jumped
ahead to see the rating. For whatever it is worth, I pretty much agree
with it.
chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
>
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Four, Episode 5: "Beer Bad"
> (or "You ever think of using articles, or personal pronouns?"
> "No! Blorric risk truncation in interest of terseness. Superfluous
> speech obfuscate meaning, lead to bombast.")
> Writer: Tracey Forbes
> Director: David Solomon
Ah, yes, Beer Bad. If I was into making lists, this episode would
definitely be in the bottom two or three, both when ranked by quality and
by when ranked by how much I like each ep. Even Beer Bad has its likeable
moments, of course. But unlike most other episodes, these likeable
moments can't quite make me overlook the lame parts.
Some people have floated the idea that ME might have been a deliberate
parody of anti-alcohol/anti-drug propaganda. I wish I could convince
myself that it was a deliberate parody, but so far I haven't quite
managed.
I don't have much to say about specific parts of BB that hasn't already
been said several times in this thread. The parts I liked: First and
foremost, the Parker-Willow conversation. Even if there was nothing else,
that alone would make it worth slogging through BB again. And, well,
there isn't much else. Buffy's daydream at the beginning was amusing.
There were, as always, a few great one-liners. I liked the bits where
Xander tries to ignore his work duties to comfort Buffy -- only mildly
funny, but it's always satisfying to see the core four coming together to
help each other. And like most people, I enjoyed seeing Buffy smack
Parker down, and her friends' distinct inability to feel sorry for him.
The parts I didn't like: The CaveFratboys and their antics were painfully
bad. I couldn't even enjoy seeing them brought low, because they were
probably just as happy down there. CaveBuffy was better, and I liked the
way her Slayer instincts remained intact, but I still didn't find her all
that great. This wasn't SMG's fault, it was the script: the antics they
gave her to perform were mostly silly without being very funny. (Didn't
she fall off her chair at one point?) The final action scene wasn't shot
very well. And for every great one-liner, there were two that made me
wince, or just fell to the floor without generating any reaction at all.
I guess even the greatest episode has a few jokes that fall flat, but the
problem with BB is that there weren't enough good jokes to balance them
out (let alone enough to balance out the lame plot and villains).
Do I recall correctly that there was a slide show in class during Buffy's
daydream? Or was that some other episode? Why would Prof. Walsh, a
hardass who would never stoop to making things easy on her students, use
visual aids to illustrate concepts as simple as food and sex?
--Chris
______________________________________________________________________
chrisg [at] gwu.edu On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog.
George W Harris
<opusthepen...@gmail.com> wrote:
:Harry the Horse (HarryAtT...@hotmail.com) wrote:
:
:> Completely agreed. For me, Beer Bad is certainly the worst
:> episode in the entire series. It fails to be funny, and it is
:> also quite po-faced and preachy about alcohol - Giles to Xander,
:> rebuking him for serving Buffy: 'but you knew it was beer'. Does
:> anyone apart from a few religious nutters think that give alcohol
:> to a 19 year old is 'bad'?.
:
:In the US it's against the law.
I believe in some states it isn't.
--
"Intelligence is too complex to capture in a single number." -Alfred Binet
kenm47
A quick Google suggests in California it's 21 not 18:
http://www.cevs.ucdavis.edu/dept_cont/alcohol/
No time to check further or how long it's been 21.
Ken (Brooklyn)
Steve Schaffner
> On 18 Apr 2006 16:23:42 GMT, Opus the Penguin
> <opusthepen...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> :Harry the Horse (HarryAtT...@hotmail.com) wrote:
> :
> :> Completely agreed. For me, Beer Bad is certainly the worst
> :> episode in the entire series. It fails to be funny, and it is
> :> also quite po-faced and preachy about alcohol - Giles to Xander,
> :> rebuking him for serving Buffy: 'but you knew it was beer'. Does
> :> anyone apart from a few religious nutters think that give alcohol
> :> to a 19 year old is 'bad'?.
> :
> :In the US it's against the law.
>
> I believe in some states it isn't.
Serving alcohol (in a public bar) to anyone under 21 is illegal in all
U.S. states. Federal law requires states to impose that age or lose
highway funding.
--
Steve Schaffner s...@broad.mit.edu
Immediate assurance is an excellent sign of probable lack of
insight into the topic. Josiah Royce
George W Harris
<s...@phosphorus.broad.mit.edu> wrote:
:George W Harris <gha...@mundsprung.com> writes:
:
:> On 18 Apr 2006 16:23:42 GMT, Opus the Penguin
:> <opusthepen...@gmail.com> wrote:
:>
:> :Harry the Horse (HarryAtT...@hotmail.com) wrote:
:> :
:> :> Completely agreed. For me, Beer Bad is certainly the worst
:> :> episode in the entire series. It fails to be funny, and it is
:> :> also quite po-faced and preachy about alcohol - Giles to Xander,
:> :> rebuking him for serving Buffy: 'but you knew it was beer'. Does
:> :> anyone apart from a few religious nutters think that give alcohol
:> :> to a 19 year old is 'bad'?.
:> :
:> :In the US it's against the law.
:>
:> I believe in some states it isn't.
:
:Serving alcohol (in a public bar) to anyone under 21 is illegal in all
:U.S. states. Federal law requires states to impose that age or lose
:highway funding.
The second sentence is true, but it does not imply
the first. It may have changed, but even after the federal
law was passed, some states did not raise the drinking
age. I'm not certain that they've still held out, though.
--
e^(i*pi)+1=0
George W. Harris For actual email address, replace each 'u' with an 'i'.
Stephen Tempest
> I got a kick out of
>their drunken attempts to be all deep and stuff,
Surely anybody who's been to university will recognise such people?
(quite possibly in themselves...)
> I was worried
>about the writing since I don't see Willow getting taken in by lines
>like that. Which, it turns out, she's not. I like the timing on
>"just how gullible do you think I am?"
Personally I liked her triumphant "See! See!" when the Neanderthal
students burst into the room...
Another bit I enjoyed was when Xander and Giles are watching
Cavebuffy's antics in her dorm room, which just seem like wacky
slapstick fun... when it suddenly started to dawn on me that here's
someone with superhuman strength and killing ability, who's just lost
all her capacity for rational thought. In other words, she's
incredibly dangerous... and just as I was thinking that, Xander had
his "Giles, don't make Cave Slayer angry" line. Cue me saying "Yes!!
I was right!" :)
Stephen
Xande...@gmail.com
Not stoned at all. There are very few eps of Buffy or Angel that I
absolutely detest. This one, Lonely Hearts, and Band Candy fall into
this category from what I can think of right now. The second episode
of Season 6(can't rememberthe title right now) would probably fit that
category, as well.
Steve Schaffner
> On 18 Apr 2006 14:01:21 -0400, Steve Schaffner
> <s...@phosphorus.broad.mit.edu> wrote:
>
> :George W Harris <gha...@mundsprung.com> writes:
> :
> :> On 18 Apr 2006 16:23:42 GMT, Opus the Penguin
> :> <opusthepen...@gmail.com> wrote:
> :>
> :> :Harry the Horse (HarryAtT...@hotmail.com) wrote:
> :> :
> :> :> Completely agreed. For me, Beer Bad is certainly the worst
> :> :> episode in the entire series. It fails to be funny, and it is
> :> :> also quite po-faced and preachy about alcohol - Giles to Xander,
> :> :> rebuking him for serving Buffy: 'but you knew it was beer'. Does
> :> :> anyone apart from a few religious nutters think that give alcohol
> :> :> to a 19 year old is 'bad'?.
> :> :
> :> :In the US it's against the law.
> :>
> :> I believe in some states it isn't.
> :
> :Serving alcohol (in a public bar) to anyone under 21 is illegal in all
> :U.S. states. Federal law requires states to impose that age or lose
> :highway funding.
>
> The second sentence is true, but it does not imply
> the first.
True. The truth of the second sentence did, however, lead
historically to the truth of the first.
> It may have changed, but even after the federal
> law was passed, some states did not raise the drinking
> age. I'm not certain that they've still held out, though.
None are still holding out.
Shuggie
dumb but it has some excellent moments. I think Cave!Slayer is hilarious
as is Buffy watching TV. But the best part of this is Willow playing
Parker.
Oh and as for lessons - the real lesson is an unspoken one -
Cave!Buffy's response to Parker - even more eloquent than Willow's.
:)
--
Shuggie
my blog - http://shuggie.livejournal.com/
Don Sample
"Harry the Horse" <HarryAtT...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1145327056.5...@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > One-sentence summary: God, that was dumb.
> >
> > AOQ rating: Weak
> >
> Completely agreed. For me, Beer Bad is certainly the worst episode in the
> entire series. It fails to be funny, and it is also quite po-faced and
> preachy about alcohol - Giles to Xander, rebuking him for serving Buffy:
> 'but you knew it was beer'. Does anyone apart from a few religious nutters
> think that give alcohol to a 19 year old is 'bad'?.
She's only 18 at that point, and in California that makes it illegal to
serve her beer.
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
"kenm47" <ken...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> George W Harris wrote:
> > On 18 Apr 2006 16:23:42 GMT, Opus the Penguin
> > <opusthepen...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > :Harry the Horse (HarryAtT...@hotmail.com) wrote:
> > :
> > :> Completely agreed. For me, Beer Bad is certainly the worst
> > :> episode in the entire series. It fails to be funny, and it is
> > :> also quite po-faced and preachy about alcohol - Giles to Xander,
> > :> rebuking him for serving Buffy: 'but you knew it was beer'. Does
> > :> anyone apart from a few religious nutters think that give alcohol
> > :> to a 19 year old is 'bad'?.
> > :
> > :In the US it's against the law.
> >
> > I believe in some states it isn't.
> > --
> > "Intelligence is too complex to capture in a single number." -Alfred Binet
> >
> > George W. Harris For actual email address, replace each 'u' with an 'i'
>
> A quick Google suggests in California it's 21 not 18:
you cant sell alcoholic beverages to people under 21
but they are allowed to consume
that covers things like communion wine
or parents letting their children drink wine with dinner etc
buffy doesnt appear to be actually purchasing beer
i dont remember if under those particular circumstances
she can join legal customers in a bar
> No time to check further or how long it's been 21.
for decades or longer
its in the state constitution
arf meow arf - nsa fodder
al qaeda terrorism nuclear bomb iran taliban big brother
if you meet buddha on the usenet killfile him
Steve Schaffner
The federal requirement is (I believe) that states outlaw sales
to, and public possession by, those under 21. It looks like Buffy
would have broken California law:
"Any person under the age of 21 years who has any alcoholic beverage in
his or her possession on any street or highway or in any public place
or in any place open to the public is guilty of a misdemeanor.
(Business and Professions Code, Section 25662(a))
Any person under the age of 21 years who purchases any alcoholic
beverage, or any person under the age of 21 years who consumes any
alcoholic beverage in any on-sale premises, is guilty of a
misdemeanor. (Business and Professions Code, Section 25658(b))"
Steve Schaffner
> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1145327056.5...@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> >A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> > threads.
> >
> >
> > BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> > Season Four, Episode 5: "Beer Bad"
> > (or "You ever think of using articles, or personal pronouns?"
> > "No! Blorric risk truncation in interest of terseness. Superfluous
> > speech obfuscate meaning, lead to bombast.")
> > Writer: Tracey Forbes
> > Director: David Solomon
> >
> > I know I'm hard to predict sometimes, but did anyone imagine I could
> > possibly like this one?
>
> Well, you did like Ted. And Ted and Beer Bad (along with Bad Eggs and Go
> Fish) tend to be equally villified by fans who think the writers have no
> business just having fun when they should be pursuing the season arcs with
> all the earnestness that that quest deserves. Not that there aren't advances
> made in the season arcs in BB.
It's possible to dislike Beer Bad without thinking the writers
shouldn't just have fun some of the time. I like Ted and Bad Eggs (and
I love Band Candy and Fear Itself), but I don't find Beer Bad very
funny. I don't actively dislike it the way I do the much-debated scene
in Dead Man's Party, but I just don't think it's good. There are some
nice bits -- Willow playing Parker, "Well excuse me, Mr. 'I spent the
60's in an electric cool-aid funky Satan groove'", among others -- but
most of it I just find weak.
Jeff Jacoby
> George W Harris <gha...@mundsprung.com> writes:
[snip]
>> It may have changed, but even after the federal
>> law was passed, some states did not raise the drinking
>> age. I'm not certain that they've still held out, though.
>
> None are still holding out.
A nice demonstration of the Golden Rule.
Jeff
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
Jeff Jacoby <jja...@not.real.com> wrote:
the california law long predates the federal governments meddling
it was written into the constitution long ago
that drinking age begins at 21 not majority
when the age of majority was dropped to 18
the drinking age remained at 21
BTR1701
George W Harris <gha...@mundsprung.com> wrote:
> On 18 Apr 2006 16:23:42 GMT, Opus the Penguin
> <opusthepen...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> :Harry the Horse (HarryAtT...@hotmail.com) wrote:
> :
> :> Completely agreed. For me, Beer Bad is certainly the worst
> :> episode in the entire series. It fails to be funny, and it is
> :> also quite po-faced and preachy about alcohol - Giles to Xander,
> :> rebuking him for serving Buffy: 'but you knew it was beer'. Does
> :> anyone apart from a few religious nutters think that give alcohol
> :> to a 19 year old is 'bad'?.
> :
> :In the US it's against the law.
>
> I believe in some states it isn't.
In every state it is. Raising the drinking age to 21 was one of those
things the federal government told the states they had to do if they
wanted to get their federal highway dollars. Since every state except
Alaska is mainlines federal money like heroin, they had no choice.
Alaska did it just because they didn't want to be left out of the club.
BTR1701
Steve Schaffner <s...@phosphorus.broad.mit.edu> wrote:
True, but there are minor variations here and there. For example, in
Texas, it's legal for a married person under the age of 21 to drink
alcohol as long as he/she is in the presence of their spouse.
And parents can allow their minor children to drink in their presence
also.
drifter
> George W Harris <gha...@mundsprung.com> writes:
>
>> On 18 Apr 2006 16:23:42 GMT, Opus the Penguin
>> <opusthepen...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Harry the Horse (HarryAtT...@hotmail.com) wrote:
>>>
>>>> Completely agreed. For me, Beer Bad is certainly the worst
>>>> episode in the entire series. It fails to be funny, and it is
>>>> also quite po-faced and preachy about alcohol - Giles to Xander,
>>>> rebuking him for serving Buffy: 'but you knew it was beer'. Does
>>>> anyone apart from a few religious nutters think that give alcohol
>>>> to a 19 year old is 'bad'?.
>>>
>>> In the US it's against the law.
>>
>> I believe in some states it isn't.
>
> Serving alcohol (in a public bar) to anyone under 21 is illegal in all
> U.S. states. Federal law requires states to impose that age or lose
> highway funding.
When I was in the Navy, it was legal to serve beer to sailors between
18 and 21 if they were stationed at a base (such as San Diego) less
than 100 miles from a foreign country. This was in the mid-80's.
--
Kel
"I reject your reality, and substitute my own."
drifter
> One-sentence summary: God, that was dumb.
>
> AOQ rating: Weak
Beer Bad good.
Jeff Jacoby
> In article <2b6dnUPkRpcKxdjZ...@comcast.com>,
> Jeff Jacoby <jja...@not.real.com> wrote:
>
>> On 18 Apr 2006 15:23:30 -0400, Steve <s...@phosphorus.broad.mit.edu> wrote:
>> > George W Harris <gha...@mundsprung.com> writes:
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>> >> It may have changed, but even after the federal
>> >> law was passed, some states did not raise the drinking
>> >> age. I'm not certain that they've still held out, though.
>> >
>> > None are still holding out.
>>
>> A nice demonstration of the Golden Rule.
>
> the california law long predates the federal governments meddling
> it was written into the constitution long ago
> that drinking age begins at 21 not majority
> when the age of majority was dropped to 18
> the drinking age remained at 21
I'm obviously referring to states where the
drinking age was 18 (e.g. NY circa early-80's,
though I don't think NY was a "holdout".)
Jeff
George W Harris
wrote:
Louisiana was.
:Jeff
--
"It is always a simple matter to drag people along whether it is a
democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist
dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the
bidding of the leaders. This is easy. All you have to do is tell them
they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of
patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every
country."
-Hermann Goering
kim
news:l64o-1rj5-4ADAB...@mercury.nildram.net...
> In article <mtm842h3oo57nhlmq...@4ax.com>,
> KenM47 <Ken...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> > Don Sample <dsa...@synapse.net> wrote:
> >
> > >In article <1145327056.5...@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
> > > "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> > >> threads.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> > >> Season Four, Episode 5: "Beer Bad"
> > >> (or "You ever think of using articles, or personal pronouns?"
> > >> "No! Blorric risk truncation in interest of terseness. Superfluous
> > >> speech obfuscate meaning, lead to bombast.")
> > >> Writer: Tracey Forbes
> > >> Director: David Solomon
> > >>
> > >
> > >>
> > >> weird and stuff, and transfixed by the singer in the Bronze. Is she
> > >> the same chick who people were mentioning in their comments (I don't
> > >> remember her) about "Living Conditions?"
> > >
> > >Yes, it's the same girl.
> > >
> > >
> > >> AOQ rating: Weak
> > >
> > >A lot of people will agree with you on this one, but Beer Bad has
always
> > >been one of my guilty pleasures. "Giles, don't make Caveslayer
unhappy."
> > >
> > >I really didn't have much to say about this one, first time around:
> > >
> > >Beer, Bad. Points to Ponder.
> > >
> > >I think. (I *hope*!) That Buffy has finally gotten Parker out of her
> > >system. She has come to the realization that what Parker is doing is
> > >Parker's problem, not hers, even before she gets into the beer, and
> > >later when Parker appologizes to her, using pretty much the exact
> > >phrasing from her daydreaming earlier, she clocks him.
> > >
> > >Who's van is that anyway? I think it would be more poetic justice if
> > >it turns out to be Parker's.
> >
> > I thought it was silly, a nothing, when I first saw it. I think I was
> > bothered by the continuing mooning over pretty boy Parker. And I
> > didn't like that rebound Buffy somehow figured it was a good idea to
> > hook up with a bunch of smart asses jerks. It also seemed to have that
> > hit you over the head message on the dangers of alcohol.
> >
> > Every time I've watched it since I've liked it more and more. I think
> > the acting is terrific, particularly SMG. Now I put it between Good(+)
> > and Excellent(-). CaveBuffy was a terrific character.
> >
> > I also realize that Xander was getting more and more grown up and
> > likeable every episode. He stopped the lusting and turned into a true
> > friend.
> >
> > And Willow proved she was no easy mark either.
> >
> > Definitely not at the bottom of my pile of DVDs.
> >
> > Ken (Brooklyn)
>
> Yeah, that's pretty much my take. I think I took it as 'enjoyably daft'
> at first. Not an episode I have any problem with, and which I still
> enjoy as occasional light relief.
>
> Plus the completion of the Holy Trinity: Fire bad, tree pretty, beer
> foamy.
Yes Ian, trees are pretty. How are your birches coming along?
(kim)
Arbitrar Of Quality
> Some people have floated the idea that ME might have been a deliberate
> parody of anti-alcohol/anti-drug propaganda. I wish I could convince
> myself that it was a deliberate parody, but so far I haven't quite
> managed.
Yeah, if it was a parody, where's the part where you, you know, make
fun of anti-booze propoganda? And it's not itself much of a cautionary
message since it' doesn't take itself seriously enough for that - say
what you will about BB (and I do), but it doesn't have many unjustified
delusions of significance or depth.
> And for every great one-liner, there were two that made me
> wince, or just fell to the floor without generating any reaction at all.
> I guess even the greatest episode has a few jokes that fall flat, but the
> problem with BB is that there weren't enough good jokes to balance them
> out (let alone enough to balance out the lame plot and villains).
Pretty much.
-AOQ
Arbitrar Of Quality
Steve Schaffner wrote:
> "Apteryx" <apt...@extra.co.nz> writes:
>
> > Well, you did like Ted. And Ted and Beer Bad (along with Bad Eggs and Go
> > Fish) tend to be equally villified by fans who think the writers have no
> > business just having fun when they should be pursuing the season arcs with
> > all the earnestness that that quest deserves. Not that there aren't advances
> > made in the season arcs in BB.
>
> It's possible to dislike Beer Bad without thinking the writers
> shouldn't just have fun some of the time. I like Ted and Bad Eggs (and
> I love Band Candy and Fear Itself), but I don't find Beer Bad very
> funny. I don't actively dislike it the way I do the much-debated scene
> in Dead Man's Party, but I just don't think it's good. There are some
> nice bits -- Willow playing Parker, "Well excuse me, Mr. 'I spent the
> 60's in an electric cool-aid funky Satan groove'", among others -- but
> most of it I just find weak.
What is "Ted" doing in this conversation about wacky, offbeat episodes?
But speaking of which, BB seems (at least in thsi NG) to be #2, behind
"Ted," on the list of episodes that were initially hated and gained
fans on rewatching. Interesting.
-AOQ
Steve Schaffner
> Steve Schaffner wrote:
> > "Apteryx" <apt...@extra.co.nz> writes:
> >
> > > Well, you did like Ted. And Ted and Beer Bad (along with Bad Eggs and Go
> > > Fish) tend to be equally villified by fans who think the writers have no
> > > business just having fun when they should be pursuing the season arcs with
> > > all the earnestness that that quest deserves. Not that there aren't advances
> > > made in the season arcs in BB.
> >
> > It's possible to dislike Beer Bad without thinking the writers
> > shouldn't just have fun some of the time. I like Ted and Bad Eggs (and
> > I love Band Candy and Fear Itself), but I don't find Beer Bad very
> > funny. I don't actively dislike it the way I do the much-debated scene
> > in Dead Man's Party, but I just don't think it's good. There are some
> > nice bits -- Willow playing Parker, "Well excuse me, Mr. 'I spent the
> > 60's in an electric cool-aid funky Satan groove'", among others -- but
> > most of it I just find weak.
>
> What is "Ted" doing in this conversation about wacky, offbeat episodes?
I dunno. I found it there and didn't want to start an argument.
> But speaking of which, BB seems (at least in thsi NG) to be #2, behind
> "Ted," on the list of episodes that were initially hated and gained
> fans on rewatching. Interesting.
Interesting, but I don't seem to follow that pattern. I kind of liked
Ted when I first saw it, and still kind of like it. I kind of
disliked Beer Bad when I first saw it, and that hasn't changed either;
if anything, it's gotten a little less foamy.
(I'm trying to remember episodes that have really improved with repeat
viewing . . . The Zeppo is the most obvious, I guees.)
rcamp...@gmail.com
felt that many scenes wouldn't have been nearly as effective (as
good as the writing was) with a lesser actress saying the lines.
Re. "Fire bad, tree pretty". This is one of the few Buffy-phrases I
actually have used in real life.
Espen Schjønberg
> Harry the Horse (HarryAtT...@hotmail.com) wrote:
>
>
>>Completely agreed. For me, Beer Bad is certainly the worst
>>episode in the entire series. It fails to be funny, and it is
>>also quite po-faced and preachy about alcohol - Giles to Xander,
>>rebuking him for serving Buffy: 'but you knew it was beer'. Does
>>anyone apart from a few religious nutters think that give alcohol
>>to a 19 year old is 'bad'?.
>
>
> least.
Something interesting (for me): I just talked to someone who had been to
the US as an exchange-student one year (at the High-School level). She
said, the result of this high age-limit was the US kids didn't drink,
they used drugs instead. (Drugs as in marijuana.)
Was she wrong, joking, etc, or is this tendency there?
Whats the legal age of attaining majority in the US? Isn't it 18?
You've got 16 for driving cars, 18 for having sex(?) 18 for voting, and
21 for drinking beer?
Sam
Espen Schjønberg wrote:
>
> Something interesting (for me): I just talked to someone who had been to
> the US as an exchange-student one year (at the High-School level). She
> said, the result of this high age-limit was the US kids didn't drink,
> they used drugs instead. (Drugs as in marijuana.)
>
> Was she wrong, joking, etc, or is this tendency there?
>
Yes and no. The thing is, even with the legal restrictions it's still
much easier and cheaper for a minor to get booze than it is to get weed
or other drugs. (Not that it's hard to get those either.) And the laws
against underaged drinking are all but unenforced, apart from
occasionally cracking down on bars or stores that serve to underaged
customers, whereas the cops still take drug use at least half
seriously. Parents, too -- for instance, my folks were fine with me
drinking beer underage, but they'd have skinned me alive for drugs.
What you actually tend to get, in my experience, is a great increase in
the amount of underage drinking due to the mystique of it being
forbidden. Once people turn 21, the novelty tends to wear off and most
people drink quite a bit less.
> Whats the legal age of attaining majority in the US? Isn't it 18?
>
> You've got 16 for driving cars, 18 for having sex(?) 18 for voting, and
> 21 for drinking beer?
>
It varies from state to state. The age of consent for sex is all over
the place -- some states have it as low as 14. Tends to hover around
16. 16 for driving. 18 for voting and joining the army. 21 for drinking
beer.
The ludicrousness of being able to die for your country but not buy a
beer beforehand is often commented on.
--Sam
Harry the Horse
news:dsample-36AF80...@news.giganews.com...
> In article <114536049...@demeter.uk.clara.net>,
> "Harry the Horse" <HarryAtT...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1145327056.5...@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>> >
>> > One-sentence summary: God, that was dumb.
>> >
>> > AOQ rating: Weak
>> >
>> Completely agreed. For me, Beer Bad is certainly the worst episode in
>> the
>> entire series. It fails to be funny, and it is also quite po-faced and
>> preachy about alcohol - Giles to Xander, rebuking him for serving Buffy:
>> 'but you knew it was beer'. Does anyone apart from a few religious
>> nutters
>> think that give alcohol to a 19 year old is 'bad'?.
>
> She's only 18 at that point, and in California that makes it illegal to
> serve her beer.
>
Buffy. The first time I visted the US, I was 18 and about to go to
university. It didn;'t stop my relatives taking me to bars and my getting a
drink in them. At the time, I just assumed that the law was the same as the
UK, which was 18, but most places will still serve you if you are over 16
and don't look too young.
vague disclaimer
"Harry the Horse" <HarryAtT...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "Don Sample" <dsa...@synapse.net> wrote in message
> news:dsample-36AF80...@news.giganews.com...
> > In article <114536049...@demeter.uk.clara.net>,
> > "Harry the Horse" <HarryAtT...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in message
> >> news:1145327056.5...@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> >> >
> >> > One-sentence summary: God, that was dumb.
> >> >
> >> > AOQ rating: Weak
> >> >
> >> Completely agreed. For me, Beer Bad is certainly the worst episode in
> >> the
> >> entire series. It fails to be funny, and it is also quite po-faced and
> >> preachy about alcohol - Giles to Xander, rebuking him for serving Buffy:
> >> 'but you knew it was beer'. Does anyone apart from a few religious
> >> nutters
> >> think that give alcohol to a 19 year old is 'bad'?.
> >
> > She's only 18 at that point, and in California that makes it illegal to
> > serve her beer.
> >
> Yes, I know. But the episode conveys moral disapproval at serving beer to
> Buffy. The first time I visted the US, I was 18 and about to go to
> university. It didn;'t stop my relatives taking me to bars and my getting a
> drink in them. At the time, I just assumed that the law was the same as the
> UK, which was 18, but most places will still serve you if you are over 16
> and don't look too young.
On the other hand, the US is the only place I've ever had my ID checked.
I was 28 at the time.
--
A vague disclaimer is nobody's friend
Don Sample
Espen Schjønberg <ess...@excite.com> wrote:
> On 18.04.2006 18:23, Opus the Penguin wrote:
> > Harry the Horse (HarryAtT...@hotmail.com) wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Completely agreed. For me, Beer Bad is certainly the worst
> >>episode in the entire series. It fails to be funny, and it is
> >>also quite po-faced and preachy about alcohol - Giles to Xander,
> >>rebuking him for serving Buffy: 'but you knew it was beer'. Does
> >>anyone apart from a few religious nutters think that give alcohol
> >>to a 19 year old is 'bad'?.
> >
> >
> > In the US it's against the law. That complicates the question for me at
> > least.
>
> Something interesting (for me): I just talked to someone who had been to
> the US as an exchange-student one year (at the High-School level). She
> said, the result of this high age-limit was the US kids didn't drink,
> they used drugs instead. (Drugs as in marijuana.)
Well, good! Marijuana isn't as bad for you as alcohol.
>
> Was she wrong, joking, etc, or is this tendency there?
Yes, there are studies that show that. Here's one of them:
<http://www.econ.ubc.ca/lemieux/papers/jhefinal.pdf>
>
> Whats the legal age of attaining majority in the US? Isn't it 18?
>
> You've got 16 for driving cars, 18 for having sex(?) 18 for voting, and
> 21 for drinking beer?
The having sex thing varies from state to state. In most it's sixteen.
(As low as 14 in some states, if the other partner is no more than 5
years older. Down to 12 if they're married.)
Joe Finn
>
> I wonder if Xander still has a job after this?
Oh yeah, that bar owner was such a nice guy (poisoning the frat snobs
and all) that he gladly carried Xander on the payroll for the six months
it took to rebuild the bar.
Joe
Don Sample
Joe Finn <nos...@nospam.net> wrote:
What six months? There was no damage to the bar that would prevent it
from opening for business the next day. There was one broken door,
something a competent carpenter could fix in half an hour.
It was a different place that got burned down.
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
the grotto that was burned was a different place than the bar
the bar had a few overturned tables and smashed bathroom door
Joe Finn
I stand corrected.
Joe
James Craine
BTR1701 wrote:
>
> In every state it is. Raising the drinking age to 21 was one of those
> things the federal government told the states they had to do if they
> wanted to get their federal highway dollars. Since every state except
> Alaska is mainlines federal money like heroin, they had no choice.
> Alaska did it just because they didn't want to be left out of the club.
Are you saying that the state the got a half a billion
dollars for two bridges to nowhere doesn't mainline federal
money like heroin?
James Craine
Espen Schjønberg wrote:
That's pretty much correct. Though the sex and cars are left
up to the states.
I have heard for a long time that it is easier for a kid to
get MJ than beer. Just another unintended consequence from
the evil-things in DC meddling in our lives.