AOQ Angel Review 2-7: "Darla"
Arbitrar Of Quality
episodes in these review threads.
ANGEL
Season Two, Episode 7: "Darla"
(or "Another side, another story")
Writer: Tim Minear
Director: Tim Minear
I'm pretty torn about this episode. On the one hand, there are a lot
of things about it that I can dispassionately say are cool, or
appropriate. On the other hand, it didn't really resonate with me,
and I really wanted it to. It felt like it should've been special,
and was falling short of these expectations I'd arbitrarily decided
to impose upon it. And on yet another hand, certain moments stick with
me as I remember them, the same way scenes from its companion episode
over on the sister show do, making me wonder if I'm selling
"Darla" short or missing out on some nuance. I'm not just torn,
I'm a three-handed mutant.
Let me first just mention that the teaser's reveal of Angel taking up
caricatures is quite enjoyable. Hey, didn't Cordelia once suggest
that art would be a good hobby for him? Oh, speaking of whom, let's
make space for "and this would be the same woman you didn't notice
was in your bedroom every night for like three weeks straight?"
All right, so a lot of my going back and forth on the show has to do
with Julie Benz. During the scenes where she's "on," I'm
digging the episode. During the scenes when her performance isn't
working so well for me, neither is "Darla." Unlike Spike's role
in FFL, this causes me quite a bit of cognitive dissonance, given how
much I generally love her in this role. Benz's acting not working
for me... does not compute...
An example of a moment that worked for me would be the opening. After
some good cinematography with the room full of glass (it initially
suggested suicide to me), her evocative laughter after the line about
"soul mates" is perfect. The scene in which she's physically
moving towards Lindsey and ends up biting him is also good, doing nice
things with the character's intense confusion. As for stuff that
didn't, I'm just going to categorically mention anything that has
her acting outright scared or sad - these scenes have the tendency to
turn into breathy droning monologues. ATS has had a strong run lately,
but it's been noticeably laying it on thick with dialogue choices
like "I can feel this body dying... I can feel it decaying moment by
moment," or "that's why they brought me back - to get to you. Now
I find I need you, just as I've always needed you."
More fun with flashbacks abounds; this one includes a nice little scene
in which the episode's title character gets an origin story. She's
a person she barely remembers now, but she still has the self-satisfied
contempt for the religious values of her society that'll blossom into
Darlaesque contempt for all things human. There's a certain pleasure
that comes in seeing dead characters reappear, like the Master (not
just some sort of master) making his third Buffyverse appearance since
being killed off. Although it falls to the dumb-n'-obvious end of
the spectrum, I like Angelus cutting off his speech, and the soundtrack
reacting accordingly. As vampires, the two of them were cut from the
same cloth. Back in late-S2 of _Buffy_, I commented that Darla was the
only vampire I could remember who'd hit the same kind of sadistic
notes as Evil Angel.
One of the things that I think is extremely clever is the way
"Darla" incorporates footage from "Fool For Love," showing us
the other half of what was going on. The synergy between the two
episodes is outstanding. Some of you should be able to tell me whether
all the flashback stuff was shot together; that would seem easiest.
But that would also suggest that either Doug and Tim would need to be
in constant communication while writing their shows, or that they were
"assigned" the flashbacks first and built everything else around
them. Anyway, we see who the passers-by were who bumped into a certain
poet from the Ministry Of Silly Walks. More to the point, this episode
addresses why exactly Angel was one of the Four Footsmen in 1900
despite having gotten a soul a few years earlier. The actual content
of this stuff neither captivated me nor repelled me; it's competent.
It makes sense that he'd take at least one shot at ignoring his
conscience, and that Darla would watch, put things together, and test
him the way she does. "Filthy soul" is near the top of my list of
phrases that I could definitely stand to not hear repeatedly anymore.
In what I believe is Marsters's only new scene that wasn't also in
FFL, he gets some of the biggest laughs of the week when Darla is
trying to use the Gypsy-guy's family against him, and Spike strolls
out with a mouthful of blood. "What?" No, I don't know or care
how he got in.
I'm not quite sure what to think of Lindsey's role in all this, but
tentatively put me down for "intrigued." He certainly seems to
think there's a real connection between this new Darla and himself,
to the point where he'll jeopardize his career for her, which paints
him and Angel as both potential rivals and potential allies. Or both
at the same time, as seen in the effective little bit with the phone
call. There's no direct reference to last season's "Blind
Date" in this show, but I feel like the writers wouldn't be echoing
that scenario unless they were planning to go somewhere new with it.
The episode teases the viewer with the possibility that Angel's
rescue won't quite come in time, and that the goons will kill her.
And it turns out that no one was really interested in doing so, that
W&H's plan continues. It's a good sign that throughout the hour, I
couldn't predict with certainty what was going to happen next.
I suppose it could also be my not picking up on clues. Calling back to
a previous episode, remember how "Five By Five" was building to a
single moment, and there was a tremendous amount of foreshadowing
leading up to it without ever getting too obvious? "Darla" tries
for a similar trick, with less emotional resonance but still some
success. Its climax is a moment of disillusionment, when Angel learns
that Darla's soul is haunting her, but it isn't driving her to
become one of his salvation pet projects at all - she just wants him
to help her ditch it and become what she once was. Which one might
have guessed from the broken mirrors, the fear of slow death, the
attempts to act vampirish, the choice of flashbacks, and so on, but it
wasn't too obvious in advance for me on first viewing. In
retrospect, maybe Angel shouldn't be so surprised either; he's been
there too. For the sake of keeping the show from getting repetitious,
I think it's important that this one plays out differently than
Faith's story; instead of an invincible mystical creature choosing to
put herself in his hands, we have an ordinary human who's desperate
to be something else. (A more direct comparison might be with Rebecca
Lowell from "Eternity," but we at AOQ Reviews have recently adopted
a "the hell with Rebecca Lowell from 'Eternity'" policy.) A
good exchange in this scene: "You think you did me a favor? You
damned me." "Fine. Fine then, if it's such a punishment, take out
your revenge, pay me back."
The script on the DVD has a scenelet that the filmed version doesn't,
in which Gunn raids Angel's fridge, much to his regret. There are a
bunch of logic issues there, so good thing it's not in the final
product for me to nitpick, huh?
So...
One-sentence summary: Vaguely disappointing given the potential, but I
liked it.
AOQ rating: Good
[Season Two so far:
1) "Judgment" - Weak
2) "Are You Now Or Have You Ever Been?" - Decent
3) "First Impressions" - Good
4) "Untouched" - Good
5) "Dear Boy" - Good
6) "Guise Will Be Guise" - Decent
7) "Darla" - Good]
jil...@hotmail.com
the more obnoxious, self-centered fans out there... with Angel breaking
it to Wesley that no, he hasn't been a good vampire ever since he was
cursed. Being actively good has been presented as relatively recent
development, since Whistler picked him up.
Here we see something that triggered a certain theory for me, too.
Drucilla wanted someone who would be as obsessed with her as Angelus
was with Darla. That's what she made Spike to be.
As a secondary point, when Dru and Spike were having their discussion
in front of the poor demon she was playing with... I thought Drucilla
was weeping.
Mike Zeares
Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for future _Buffy_ and _Angel_
> episodes in these review threads.
>
>
> ANGEL
> Season Two, Episode 7: "Darla"
> (or "Another side, another story")
> Writer: Tim Minear
> Director: Tim Minear
>
>
> All right, so a lot of my going back and forth on the show has to do
> with Julie Benz. During the scenes where she's "on," I'm
> digging the episode. During the scenes when her performance isn't
> working so well for me, neither is "Darla." Unlike Spike's role
> in FFL, this causes me quite a bit of cognitive dissonance, given how
> much I generally love her in this role. Benz's acting not working
> for me... does not compute...
I was pretty much sold on everything Benz did in S2, but others in the
past have made comments like "over-breathy" or "too simper-y." So
you're not alone in being occasionally bugged by her performance.
> One of the things that I think is extremely clever is the way
> "Darla" incorporates footage from "Fool For Love," showing us
> the other half of what was going on. The synergy between the two
> episodes is outstanding. Some of you should be able to tell me whether
> all the flashback stuff was shot together; that would seem easiest.
> But that would also suggest that either Doug and Tim would need to be
> in constant communication while writing their shows, or that they were
> "assigned" the flashbacks first and built everything else around
> them.
Angel was filmed at different location (Paramount Studios), but the
writers were all in the same building in Santa Monica. I don't know
the specifics of how these two eps were written, but the idea for the
crossover scene probably came from Joss. Anything cool usually did.
And I'd bet he was in both story-breaking sessions.
> I'm not quite sure what to think of Lindsey's role in all this, but
> tentatively put me down for "intrigued." He certainly seems to
> think there's a real connection between this new Darla and himself,
> to the point where he'll jeopardize his career for her, which paints
> him and Angel as both potential rivals and potential allies.
It also paints him as not too bright, in my book. Or maybe he has a
thing for dangerous and/or damaged women. On the other hand, since
Darla looks like Julie Benz, I can't really say I blame him.
-- Mike Zeares
Lord Usher
news:1150433234.1...@f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
> ATS has had a strong run lately, but it's been noticeably laying it on
> thick with dialogue choices like "I can feel this body dying... I can
> feel it decaying moment by moment," or "that's why they brought me
> back - to get to you. Now I find I need you, just as I've always
> needed you."
Heh. You have an amusing habit of zeroing in out my all-time favorite
moments of the series...and not being impressed by them. :)
Sitting on my hard drive is an ancient half-finished post, in which I rank
my 30 favorite ANGEL scenes. You've seen 13 of them so far, and you've
specifically mentioned being unimpressed with just under half of them. And
I suppose congratulations are in order, because you've just dissed your
highest-ranked scene ever -- number seven!
Which is to say, I don't really get your dislike for Darla's dialogue,
especially the masterful final scene between her and Angel. We're not
talking about cheesy melodrama here; we're talking about genuine, deeply
felt emotion, put elegantly into words. If there's some better way to
express both the pain and the beauty of Angel and Darla's connection, I'm
not sure what it would be. But to each his own.
Fair warning, though -- if you diss number one on my list, I will lose all
respect for you. ;)
--
Lord Usher
"I'm here to kill you, not to judge you."
Lord Usher
@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
> Angel was filmed at different location (Paramount Studios), but the
> writers were all in the same building in Santa Monica. I don't know
> the specifics of how these two eps were written, but the idea for the
> crossover scene probably came from Joss. Anything cool usually did.
Tim Minear came up with the idea of doing intersecting flashback episodes,
but Joss was indeed the one who suggested showing the same scene from a
different point of view in each episode.
Minear and Petrie worked closely together to map out the flashbacks,
and Minear is the one who directed the overlapping scenes.
Kevin
Mike Zeares wrote:
> Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
> > All right, so a lot of my going back and forth on the show has to do
> > with Julie Benz. During the scenes where she's "on," I'm
> > digging the episode. During the scenes when her performance isn't
> > working so well for me, neither is "Darla."
>
> past have made comments like "over-breathy" or "too simper-y." So
> you're not alone in being occasionally bugged by her performance.
I always thought Julie Benz's looks are way ahead of her acting. Not
just her voice, which bugs me (much like a weak high-school actor who
can't help but sound like a teen in every role); I simply think a
different actress might've been much better. There's a DVD featurette
that, among other things, interviews Benz about her acting style, and
shows snippets of the other actors lauding her abilities. It's
hilarious. I was reminded of a soap-opera-themed issue of TV guide (I
believe it was), several years back, which had a featured article:
"Dierdre Hall, on Acting."
I do think she's pretty good, though, and the episode is beautiful.
Those flashbacks really push my buttons (the good buttons) -- nowhere
more than in Darla and Fool For Love.
--Kevin
Apteryx
news:1150433234.1...@f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for future _Buffy_ and _Angel_
> episodes in these review threads.
>
>
> of things about it that I can dispassionately say are cool, or
> appropriate. On the other hand, it didn't really resonate with me,
> and I really wanted it to. It felt like it should've been special,
> and was falling short of these expectations I'd arbitrarily decided
> to impose upon it.
That's the thing about expectations. There's been this whole arc about W&H
project to deal with Angel using Darla, so an epidode called "Darla" ought
to be the pay-off, right? It might come off better on a second viewing after
you know the parts it plays and the parts it doesn't play in that arc, so
you don't have those expectations.
> Let me first just mention that the teaser's reveal of Angel taking up
> caricatures is quite enjoyable. Hey, didn't Cordelia once suggest
> that art would be a good hobby for him? Oh, speaking of whom, let's
> make space for "and this would be the same woman you didn't notice
> was in your bedroom every night for like three weeks straight?"
Not to mention "She could be sitting on top of anybody" or Darla's own "You
can be with someone for 150 years, think you know them. Still doesn't
work out"
> An example of a moment that worked for me would be the opening. After
> some good cinematography with the room full of glass (it initially
> suggested suicide to me), her evocative laughter after the line about
> "soul mates" is perfect. The scene in which she's physically
> moving towards Lindsey and ends up biting him is also good, doing nice
> things with the character's intense confusion. As for stuff that
> didn't, I'm just going to categorically mention anything that has
> her acting outright scared or sad - these scenes have the tendency to
> turn into breathy droning monologues. ATS has had a strong run lately,
> but it's been noticeably laying it on thick with dialogue choices
> like "I can feel this body dying... I can feel it decaying moment by
> moment," or "that's why they brought me back - to get to you. Now
> I find I need you, just as I've always needed you."
OK, so you prefer perky Darla. Who doesn't. But I wouldn't have said it was
an acting failure. And the first of those lines isn't Minears best work
(isn't his worst either - he wrote The Ring). But the latter is just the
mislead for what Darla needs Angel for - now there's a girl with a death
wish.
> One of the things that I think is extremely clever is the way
> "Darla" incorporates footage from "Fool For Love," showing us
> the other half of what was going on. The synergy between the two
> episodes is outstanding. Some of you should be able to tell me whether
> all the flashback stuff was shot together; that would seem easiest.
> But that would also suggest that either Doug and Tim would need to be
> in constant communication while writing their shows, or that they were
> "assigned" the flashbacks first and built everything else around
> them. Anyway, we see who the passers-by were who bumped into a certain
> poet from the Ministry Of Silly Walks. More to the point, this episode
> addresses why exactly Angel was one of the Four Footsmen in 1900
> despite having gotten a soul a few years earlier. The actual content
> of this stuff neither captivated me nor repelled me; it's competent.
> It makes sense that he'd take at least one shot at ignoring his
> conscience, and that Darla would watch, put things together, and test
> him the way she does.
This is where the parallel between Angel and his soul and Spike and his chip
are strongest. The soul didn't immediately make Angel a good person. He
wanted to continue as he had been. But the soul punished him with guilt when
did. A mental pain rather than a physical one, but still stick rather than
carrot. For all we know from this, it took him 50 years (till AYNOHYEB) to
have any inclination to do good, and almost another 50 to have endurance for
it. Perhaps Spike, with a similar amount of time...?
>
> In what I believe is Marsters's only new scene that wasn't also in
> FFL, he gets some of the biggest laughs of the week when Darla is
> trying to use the Gypsy-guy's family against him, and Spike strolls
> out with a mouthful of blood. "What?" No, I don't know or care
> how he got in.
That was good.
> I suppose it could also be my not picking up on clues. Calling back to
> a previous episode, remember how "Five By Five" was building to a
> single moment, and there was a tremendous amount of foreshadowing
> leading up to it without ever getting too obvious? "Darla" tries
> for a similar trick, with less emotional resonance but still some
> success. Its climax is a moment of disillusionment, when Angel learns
> that Darla's soul is haunting her, but it isn't driving her to
> become one of his salvation pet projects at all - she just wants him
> to help her ditch it and become what she once was. Which one might
> have guessed from the broken mirrors, the fear of slow death, the
> attempts to act vampirish, the choice of flashbacks, and so on, but it
> wasn't too obvious in advance for me on first viewing. In
> retrospect, maybe Angel shouldn't be so surprised either; he's been
> there too.
Perhaps his expectations were so high that he forgot that.
>
>
> So...
>
> One-sentence summary: Vaguely disappointing given the potential, but I
> liked it.
>
> AOQ rating: Good
To me its also Good. I rate it very similarly to FFL, but just slightly
ahead of it. Amongst AtS episodes, its the 10th best, 4th best in season 2.
--
Apteryx
kenm47
Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for future _Buffy_ and _Angel_
> episodes in these review threads.
>
>
> ANGEL
> Season Two, Episode 7: "Darla"
> (or "Another side, another story")
> Writer: Tim Minear
> Director: Tim Minear
>
>
> AOQ rating: Good
>
> [Season Two so far:
> 1) "Judgment" - Weak
> 2) "Are You Now Or Have You Ever Been?" - Decent
> 3) "First Impressions" - Good
> 4) "Untouched" - Good
> 5) "Dear Boy" - Good
> 6) "Guise Will Be Guise" - Decent
> 7) "Darla" - Good]
So once again I find I'm an episode behind in rewatching. Alas!
My memory is "Excellent." I'll see this weekend if I still feel that
way.
We're in the midst of the arc that made Angel worth watching IMO. I
never had a problem with Benz' Darla. And as I've said before, I'm a
big fan of these episodes fleshing out the history of our 4 favorite
bloodsuckers in what I viewed as consistent enough continuity-wise with
what we had seen earlier.
BTW, never considered that Spike might have needed an invite there.
I'll mentally note same now. I guess a wagon can be an otherwise
protected home, just never thought about it before.
Ken (Brooklyn)
gree...@gmail.com
Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
> AOQ rating: Good
::sigh::
Terry
Elisi
>
> AOQ rating: Good
It's been too long since I've seen this one, so I can't comment much.
Just one little thing. From the script:
Angel: "Come on guys. We are a detective agency. We investigate
things. That's what we're good at."
Cordy: "That's what we suck at. Let's face it, unless there's a
website called www.Oh-By-the-way-we-have-Darla-stashed-here.com, we're
pretty much out of luck."
Here's a link for you:
http://www.oh-by-the-way-we-have-darla-stashed-here.com/
:)
Oh and about the giant Spike arguments in the FFL thread? Then I always
tend to think of this quote:
Spike: She just left. She didn't even care enough to cut off my head
or
set me on fire. I mean, is that too much to ask? You know? Some
little sign that she cared?
See, it seems that pretty much everyone _cares_ about Spike - whether
they want to date him or kill him, the feelings are very strong. I find
this very interesting. If there's something I don't like I just stay
away - I happen to like Spike, hence I talk about him.
Elisi
> Here's a link for you:
>
> http://www.oh-by-the-way-we-have-darla-stashed-here.com/
Ah bother there's a sort-of spoiler on the page. So don't click on the
link, it only has a picture of Cordy anyway.
So save it for uh... later. I'll let you know if you're bothered.
George W Harris
:
:BTW, never considered that Spike might have needed an invite there.
:I'll mentally note same now. I guess a wagon can be an otherwise
:protected home, just never thought about it before.
Cordelia seemed to think so in Buffy S2.
:
:Ken (Brooklyn)
--
/bud...@nirvana.net/h:k
George W. Harris For actual email address, replace each 'u' with an 'i'
kenm47
The car? And we all laughed.
But a Gypsy wagon is akin to a Connestoga wagon I believe, kind of a
home on wheels, not just a means to get to the mall and back.
Ken (Brooklyn)
Lord Usher
@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com:
> But a Gypsy wagon is akin to a Connestoga wagon I believe, kind of a
> home on wheels, not just a means to get to the mall and back.
And previous episodes (I'm thinking specifically of "Are You Now...")
suggest that what makes something your home is the fact that you sleep
there. (Presumably it takes a while for residency to take hold, as Buffy'd
been sleeping in her dorm room for a few nights when Sunday's gang broke
in, but by the end of the school year Angel couldn't get in without an
invitation.)
kenm47
Or Kakistos getting into Faith's newly occupied room without?
As for that Angel scene, he didn't try, just assumed he needed an
invite.
Ken (Brooklyn)
sjelena
kenm47 wrote:
> Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
> > A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for future _Buffy_ and _Angel_
> > episodes in these review threads.
> >
> >
> > ANGEL
> > Season Two, Episode 7: "Darla"
> > (or "Another side, another story")
> > Writer: Tim Minear
> > Director: Tim Minear
> >
> <SNIP>
>
> >
> > AOQ rating: Good
> >
> > [Season Two so far:
> > 1) "Judgment" - Weak
> > 2) "Are You Now Or Have You Ever Been?" - Decent
> > 3) "First Impressions" - Good
> > 4) "Untouched" - Good
> > 5) "Dear Boy" - Good
> > 6) "Guise Will Be Guise" - Decent
> > 7) "Darla" - Good]
>
>
> BTW, never considered that Spike might have needed an invite there.
> I'll mentally note same now. I guess a wagon can be an otherwise
> protected home, just never thought about it before.
>
> Ken (Brooklyn)
Maybe the wagon was just a place of business? Perhaps they had a
different one for sleeping.
Arbitrar Of Quality
Lord Usher wrote:
> Fair warning, though -- if you diss number one on my list, I will lose all
> respect for you. ;)
Yeah, I get that one a lot.
AOQ
KenM47
OK. "Darla" now rewatched. F'ing brilliant. Mythic! Still love it.
(and the wagon was not necessarily a "home" so no problem there.) The
perfect second half to FFL. The acting all around including JB was
great IMO.
Puts a whole new light on the interactions with The Master in BtVS S1,
doesn't it?
I also had forgotten the wonderful Dru-isms in both eps. You should
pay attention. "When I bit into him, I could hear the ocean."
[And the great moment from FFL:
"Drusilla: The King of Cups expects a picnic! But this
is not his birthday.
<Darla looks at Drusilla like she’s crazy.>
Darla: Good point. . ."]
And didn't Darla look great in those flashbacks, especially with her
hair piled up in that Asian number? My goodness! This was ME at its
shiniest.
You think you know what's to come. You have no idea.
Thanks again for the op to rewatch these and chat about them.
Ken (Brooklyn)
Lord Usher
news:1150479000.2...@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com:
>> And previous episodes (I'm thinking specifically of "Are You Now...")
>> suggest that what makes something your home is the fact that you
>> sleep there. (Presumably it takes a while for residency to take hold,
>> as Buffy'd been sleeping in her dorm room for a few nights when
>> Sunday's gang broke in, but by the end of the school year Angel
>> couldn't get in without an invitation.)
>>
>> --
>> Lord Usher
>> "I'm here to kill you, not to judge you."
>
> Or Kakistos getting into Faith's newly occupied room without?
At some point I believe it's established that public accomodations don't
count. After all, Angel gets into Faith's motel room, too, once she's been
living and sleeping there quite a while.
> As for that Angel scene, he didn't try, just assumed he needed an
> invite.
Yeah, but he's presented as being pretty up on all the invite rules, so
presumably he'd know if it's a situation in which he would require an
invite.
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
"kenm47" <ken...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> Lord Usher wrote:
> > "kenm47" <ken...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in news:1150475238.358636.130240
> > @u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com:
> >
> > > But a Gypsy wagon is akin to a Connestoga wagon I believe, kind of a
> > > home on wheels, not just a means to get to the mall and back.
> >
> > And previous episodes (I'm thinking specifically of "Are You Now...")
> > suggest that what makes something your home is the fact that you sleep
> > there. (Presumably it takes a while for residency to take hold, as Buffy'd
> > been sleeping in her dorm room for a few nights when Sunday's gang broke
> > in, but by the end of the school year Angel couldn't get in without an
> > invitation.)
> >
> > --
> > Lord Usher
> > "I'm here to kill you, not to judge you."
>
> Or Kakistos getting into Faith's newly occupied room without?
continuity was good for a series but not perfect
they did adjust rules and heart positions as needed
arf meow arf - nsa fodder
ny dnrqn greebevfz ahpyrne obzo vena gnyvona ovt oebgure
if you meet buddha on the usenet killfile him
One Bit Shy
news:1150433234.1...@f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> ANGEL
> Season Two, Episode 7: "Darla"
> I'm pretty torn about this episode. On the one hand, there are a lot
> of things about it that I can dispassionately say are cool, or
> appropriate. On the other hand, it didn't really resonate with me,
> and I really wanted it to. It felt like it should've been special,
> and was falling short of these expectations I'd arbitrarily decided
> to impose upon it. And on yet another hand, certain moments stick with
> me as I remember them, the same way scenes from its companion episode
> over on the sister show do, making me wonder if I'm selling
> "Darla" short or missing out on some nuance. I'm not just torn,
> I'm a three-handed mutant.
I imagine that helps you type faster than me.
I have some mixed feelings about the episode too. It does not hit me with
the force of it's companion piece, Fool For Love. But then, a very small
number of episodes in any series do. On balance, Darla hits plenty hard.
The good exceeds the weak frequently and big enough to earn it an Excellent
in my book.
It's impact, of course, was increased a great deal by the way it fed back to
Fool For Love - which I had no idea was going to happen. A palpable sense
of excitement grew in me as I watched this episode and got a little out of
control as I watched the crossover scenes. <g> Finally! After all these
years, the answer to the date inconsistency in FFL. A completely different
feel to both of the crossover events. When I finished watching this, I had
to right away put FFL back in the DVD player (having already watched it once
right before this episode), just to see how Darla altered my perspective on
it. Which it did fairly substantially. It's really special to me to have
something turn up today that so enhances my appreciation of one of my
favorite BtVS episodes.
Which is funny in a way. None of the other crossovers backfed so much for
me. Yet, these episode really have very little to do with each other. The
stories are mainly unrelated. Just happen to coincide in two places at two
times. Perhaps the idea of the same events from two different perspectives
is just the best, most interesting way to handle a crossover.
But I don't want to sell Darla's own story short. The introduction of the
soul question at the end of Dear Boy actually left me a tad skeptical. I
kind of felt that I'd already gotten enough of that with Angel, with plenty
enough contrast with Spike's neutered but soulless approximation of the
"good" vamp. Did I really need another avenue into that? I was quite
pleasantly surprised by how it was handled. Weirdly so, for after seeing
Darla's reaction, I feel like I really should have predicted it. But I
didn't. I was consistently caught off guard, and the sense that I should
have predicted it really is more a satisfaction that what was depicted is
the right choice. The net effect is something fresh to me - and in its own
way quite exciting.
So I'm a very happy camper now. This is the most fun I've had with anything
in the Whedonverse since we watched the AtS Faith episodes in S1. So that
now makes for two very high points with AtS. Not enough yet to get me to
rave about the series, but plenty enough to have made the experience well
worth while thus far.
> Let me first just mention that the teaser's reveal of Angel taking up
> caricatures is quite enjoyable. Hey, didn't Cordelia once suggest
> that art would be a good hobby for him? Oh, speaking of whom, let's
> make space for "and this would be the same woman you didn't notice
> was in your bedroom every night for like three weeks straight?"
Followed by the part that cracked me up:
Angel: That was different.
Cordy: Different in the sitting right on top of you sense, yeah.
Oh, Cordy. Mistress of subtlety.
> All right, so a lot of my going back and forth on the show has to do
> with Julie Benz. During the scenes where she's "on," I'm
> digging the episode. During the scenes when her performance isn't
> working so well for me, neither is "Darla." Unlike Spike's role
> in FFL, this causes me quite a bit of cognitive dissonance, given how
> much I generally love her in this role. Benz's acting not working
> for me... does not compute...
This is not a criticisim, but one thing I've wondered about Benz is how she
avoids passing out from hyperventilation when she performs. Boy does she
pant breathlessly a lot.
> An example of a moment that worked for me would be the opening. After
> some good cinematography with the room full of glass (it initially
> suggested suicide to me), her evocative laughter after the line about
> "soul mates" is perfect. The scene in which she's physically
> moving towards Lindsey and ends up biting him is also good, doing nice
> things with the character's intense confusion.
It's a heck of a juxtaposition to link suicidal tendencies and lust. Even
lost and drifting in and out of despair she's a powerful presence. I love
how she keeps Lindsey off balance. The bite startled me as much as it did
Lindsey I think. But it's also a kind of slap in the face to him. Her
telling Lindsey to wake up and pay attention to what she's asking. Who is
she now? The answer maikes all the difference to what she does now.
Lindsey has only one aswer. Darla.
I don't know how true that will turn out to be in the end. Her departure at
the end of the episode suggests she'll be back some time down the road when
we'll learn afresh who she is. But the manner of her departure also
suggests that the answer won't please the good guys.
> As for stuff that
> didn't, I'm just going to categorically mention anything that has
> her acting outright scared or sad - these scenes have the tendency to
> turn into breathy droning monologues. ATS has had a strong run lately,
> but it's been noticeably laying it on thick with dialogue choices
> like "I can feel this body dying... I can feel it decaying moment by
> moment,"
Well, as you've probably noted, I commonly get a kick out of the
melodramatic. Something about vampire stories seems to me to call for lines
out of Harlequin romances. But in this case, the line also serves well as
lead in to the flashback where we're reminded of what the soul really means
to Darla - namely the stealing from her of Angel, her great love. From her
point of view, she watched Angel be wasted away by it. And for her to be
stuck with one now really would strike her in much the way that many people
fear and are disgusted by the thought of a cancer inside them. I think it's
an apt metaphor.
> or "that's why they brought me back - to get to you. Now
> I find I need you, just as I've always needed you."
This may be more awkward, though I cannot now clearly recall it's delivery.
The sentiment though... Half this episode (and much of Dear Boy to boot) is
about what Angel means to Darla. How he formed her - not just the other way
around - and how hurt she was by his loss. Informationally, the most
interesting of the flashbacks to me was Darla leaving the Master to stay
with Angel. I don't think I realized until then how thoroughly Angel had
seduced her - the history had previously always been played in reverse. How
Darla excited Angel. (Or so I thought. I think this episode may inform me
anew of prior flashbacks with them too. Something else to explore.) But
even though the play of the scene strikes me as a little tepid,
situationally it's a profound decision by Darla to effectively turn her back
on the Order of Aurelius. I think that also adds some substance to the
stature of Angelus in the vampire world - to be leading a kind of splinter
group of that order in defiance of the Master.
(This episode also got me to realize that technically, Spike could be
considered part of that order, and that he had a kind of natural right to
challenge the authority of the Annoying One. But I digress.)
So I think there really is a kind of poignency to Darla depending on Angel
now.
> More fun with flashbacks abounds; this one includes a nice little scene
> in which the episode's title character gets an origin story. She's
> a person she barely remembers now, but she still has the self-satisfied
> contempt for the religious values of her society that'll blossom into
> Darlaesque contempt for all things human.
That first flashback was probably the weakest scene of the episode for me.
I don't think it revealed anything terribly interesting about Darla - which
makes it suffer terribly in comparison to the companion FFL scene about
human Spike. And I was not taken by the drama of the moment or the
performance of the characters. All of which left me mainly thinking how
skeptical I am of such a house existing in 1609 Virginia, and downright
disbelieving that such a house would be inhabited by a dying whore.
> One of the things that I think is extremely clever is the way
> "Darla" incorporates footage from "Fool For Love," showing us
> the other half of what was going on. The synergy between the two
> episodes is outstanding.
I've already commented on how thrilled I am by these crossover scenes. Let
me add one thing about how these scenes also brought home to me how much
this episode really is about Darla rather than Angel. While the Boxer
Rebellion scene filled in a whole bunch of missing information about Angel,
the depiction of it is much more about its impact upon Darla. We see her
fall into the futile hope that maybe Angelus really can become what he once
was. Again, Angelus seduces her. And we see the bitter end where Darla is
disgusted by Angel's betrayal. But it's really the middle crossover part
that thrills me. Spike's big moment of triumph, Angel's revulsion and
desperate need to get them away from the cowering missionaries in the alley,
the very different tone of music from FFL, and most of all, Darla staring at
Angel, her eyes burning a hole through him as the cold realization of what
he has bcome hits her. It's a superbly crafted scene.
> In what I believe is Marsters's only new scene that wasn't also in
> FFL, he gets some of the biggest laughs of the week when Darla is
> trying to use the Gypsy-guy's family against him, and Spike strolls
> out with a mouthful of blood. "What?" No, I don't know or care
> how he got in.
I rather liked Dru's part in that scene too. And I wanted to mention
something I forgot to in FFL, which is what an improvement over Dear Boy
Dru's role is in both of these episodes - especially FFL. They really
captured her insane brilliance this time rather then just the crazy blather
in Dear Boy.
> The episode teases the viewer with the possibility that Angel's
> rescue won't quite come in time, and that the goons will kill her.
> And it turns out that no one was really interested in doing so, that
> W&H's plan continues. It's a good sign that throughout the hour, I
> couldn't predict with certainty what was going to happen next.
W&H's plan in this episode intrigues me because it essentially does what
wasn't done in Blind Date - the thing that bothered me then and still does.
That is to thoroughly complete their machinations to totally manipulate
Lindsey. In Blind Date, the manipulation of Lindsey was only half way and,
evidently, not deliberately provoked. They ended up letting him run amok
(seemingly without caring) until they won him back. This time their
manipulation is total start to end. And quite diabolical. Most impressive
to me is their being the only ones in the episode to assess Darla
accurately. In the end they still failed to get Angel. (We assume. I
suppose it remains possible the play could continue - or that they were
willing all along to merely chip away at Angel's armour, waiting patiently
for the day it breaks.) But Angel is the wild card they don't control.
Within the realm they do control, it was a beautiful ploy. They'd make
great grifters if they could keep this up.
> A
> good exchange in this scene: "You think you did me a favor? You
> damned me."
I assume this is Angel's big character moment in the episode - when he
realizes how little Darla really understands him, and how differently she is
reacting to the soul. But, then, hope springs eternal. He also recalls how
he tried to return to Darla himself. So maybe she'll get through this stage
too and become a candidate for redemption herself. But I think he has a
sinking feeling that she's not going to take that path.
> So...
>
> One-sentence summary: Vaguely disappointing given the potential, but I
> liked it.
>
> AOQ rating: Good
I vote Excellent. But not Five By Five level.
OBS
Elisi
> Puts a whole new light on the interactions with The Master in BtVS S1,
> doesn't it?
Are there any particular theories around this part of the fandom as to
what on earth happened to Darla in between 1900 and 1997? S1 BtVS Darla
is such a far cry form the delight of S2 AtS that *something* is
needed...
> I also had forgotten the wonderful Dru-isms in both eps. You should
> pay attention. "When I bit into him, I could hear the ocean."
>
> [And the great moment from FFL:
>
> "Drusilla: The King of Cups expects a picnic! But this
> is not his birthday.
> <Darla looks at Drusilla like she's crazy.>
> Darla: Good point. . ."]
I love Dru. :)
> You think you know what's to come. You have no idea.
Word! I can't wait! *grins*
George W Harris
wrote:
:> As for that Angel scene, he didn't try, just assumed he needed an
:> invite.
:
:Yeah, but he's presented as being pretty up on all the invite rules, so
:presumably he'd know if it's a situation in which he would require an
:invite.
He's also waited for an invite when he didn't need
one before, just to be polite.
:
:--
:Lord Usher
:"I'm here to kill you, not to judge you."
Arbitrar Of Quality
One Bit Shy wrote:
> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1150433234.1...@f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> > I'm a three-handed mutant.
>
> I imagine that helps you type faster than me.
I'm not so sure that I have a higher word-count output anymore.
> It's impact, of course, was increased a great deal by the way it fed back to
> Fool For Love - which I had no idea was going to happen. A palpable sense
> of excitement grew in me as I watched this episode and got a little out of
> control as I watched the crossover scenes. <g> Finally! After all these
> years, the answer to the date inconsistency in FFL. A completely different
> feel to both of the crossover events. When I finished watching this, I had
> to right away put FFL back in the DVD player (having already watched it once
> right before this episode), just to see how Darla altered my perspective on
> it. Which it did fairly substantially. It's really special to me to have
> something turn up today that so enhances my appreciation of one of my
> favorite BtVS episodes.
Well, I'm glad for you, given that I recall that part of the goal in
finally watching ATS was to gain a better understanding of the
Buffyverse as a whole.
As far as making the seris worthwhile, well, the Faith episodes have
already justified the existence of ATS for me, even if it never
produces another good episode.
> Which is funny in a way. None of the other crossovers backfed so much for
> me. Yet, these episode really have very little to do with each other. The
> stories are mainly unrelated. Just happen to coincide in two places at two
> times. Perhaps the idea of the same events from two different perspectives
> is just the best, most interesting way to handle a crossover.
Maybe.
> But I don't want to sell Darla's own story short. The introduction of the
> soul question at the end of Dear Boy actually left me a tad skeptical. I
> kind of felt that I'd already gotten enough of that with Angel, with plenty
> enough contrast with Spike's neutered but soulless approximation of the
> "good" vamp. Did I really need another avenue into that? I was quite
> pleasantly surprised by how it was handled. Weirdly so, for after seeing
> Darla's reaction, I feel like I really should have predicted it. But I
> didn't. I was consistently caught off guard, and the sense that I should
> have predicted it really is more a satisfaction that what was depicted is
> the right choice. The net effect is something fresh to me - and in its own
> way quite exciting.
Well, given all the dicussions about how Angel may not be the best
representative of what you get when you stick a soul into a vampire,
our sample size has been doubled. Not exactly the same situation, of
course, but should feed into thoughts about such things.
I'm with you on the way the episode manages to be logical/"obvious" but
not predictable. That's one of the best things about it.
> This is not a criticisim, but one thing I've wondered about Benz is how she
> avoids passing out from hyperventilation when she performs. Boy does she
> pant breathlessly a lot.
Hee. Maybe they shoot the scenes in small parts.
> Informationally, the most
> interesting of the flashbacks to me was Darla leaving the Master to stay
> with Angel. I don't think I realized until then how thoroughly Angel had
> seduced her - the history had previously always been played in reverse. How
> Darla excited Angel. (Or so I thought. I think this episode may inform me
> anew of prior flashbacks with them too. Something else to explore.)
I think we can probably see shades of that in "Angel" (TE) and "The
Prodigal" in particular.
> (This episode also got me to realize that technically, Spike could be
> considered part of that order, and that he had a kind of natural right to
> challenge the authority of the Annoying One. But I digress.)
I have nothing to add to that digression, but I thought it was worth a
"huh." So, huh.
> I vote Excellent. But not Five By Five level.
Well, like I've said, since we've had a few Excellents that weren't FxF
level, it's highly possible that I'll bump FxF's rating up to
SUPERLATIVE next time I watch it.
-AOQ
~if anyone's wondering what it takes to earn a capitalized rating,
"Innocence" and FxF have come the closest so far~
One Bit Shy
> Well, like I've said, since we've had a few Excellents that weren't FxF
> level, it's highly possible that I'll bump FxF's rating up to
> SUPERLATIVE next time I watch it.
>
> -AOQ
> ~if anyone's wondering what it takes to earn a capitalized rating,
> "Innocence" and FxF have come the closest so far~
Innocence is mighty fine. Currently #5 in my top 10 for BtVS. And probably
the best trademark episode in the series - in the sense that it so well
captures the quality the series as a whole strives for. Hush and Restless
(the two in front of it that we've seen so far) are admittedly somewhat a
sidetrack. Terrific episodes, but not terribly representative of the
series. Seen that way, I could make a good case for Innocence being #1.
FxF would be a top ten candidate. But I haven't worked out where.
OBS
Mike Zeares
One Bit Shy wrote:
>
> That first flashback was probably the weakest scene of the episode for me.
> I don't think it revealed anything terribly interesting about Darla - which
> makes it suffer terribly in comparison to the companion FFL scene about
> human Spike. And I was not taken by the drama of the moment or the
> performance of the characters. All of which left me mainly thinking how
> skeptical I am of such a house existing in 1609 Virginia, and downright
> disbelieving that such a house would be inhabited by a dying whore.
There was quite a bit of discussion about that back in the day. Tim
Minear admitted that the date was too early. It might have been 100
years or more too early for a prostitute, although my knowledge of
colonial American prostitution is rather non-existant. However, my gut
tells me that the idea that a prostitute in Virginia could have been a
"woman of some property" is ludicrous. They should have just put her
in London.
-- Mike Zeares
Stephen Tempest
>However, my gut
>tells me that the idea that a prostitute in Virginia could have been a
>"woman of some property" is ludicrous.
She could have been widowed at an early age, and turned to
prostitution rather than re-marry.
Of course, at the upper end of society the term 'courtesan' or
'adventuress' or even 'mistress' (to several different men) might be
more often used than 'prostitute', even if it amounts to the same
thing.
Stephen
KenM47
While there are things in the show that do bother me, this, for me,
falls into the don't get your panties in a knot category.
Ken (Brooklyn)
KenM47
<SNIP>
"Darla" is NOT a vampire. She's human with a human soul. She has all
the ability to make the choice of doing/being good or evil. Our sample
size - Angel/Angelus - remains one.
Ken (Brooklyn)
Arbitrar Of Quality
KenM47 wrote:
> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
> >Well, given all the dicussions about how Angel may not be the best
> >representative of what you get when you stick a soul into a vampire,
> >our sample size has been doubled. Not exactly the same situation, of
> >course, but should feed into thoughts about such things.
> >
> "Darla" is NOT a vampire. She's human with a human soul. She has all
> the ability to make the choice of doing/being good or evil. Our sample
> size - Angel/Angelus - remains one.
And Angel isn't in the same position as far as moral choice goes? I'm
not trying to dismiss the fact that Angel has a vampire's body and
impulses (his own demons are literal...) while Darla doesn't, but it's
still a chance to see how a soul interacts with someone whose entire
identity is vampirish with the exception of a human soul.
-AOQ
Lord Usher
news:ahca92pmb3nmt6tk4...@4ax.com:
> "Mike Zeares" <mze...@yahoo.com> writes:
>
>>However, my gut tells me that the idea that a prostitute in Virginia
>>could have been a "woman of some property" is ludicrous.
>
> She could have been widowed at an early age, and turned to
> prostitution rather than re-marry.
No, the episode establishes that she's a woman with "no husband, no
inheritance." The implication being that she made the money herself, in the
only way a woman of her time and place could.
Indeed, in the shooting script Darla doesn't even come out and say she's a
whore; the exchange ends with the Master's "I know what you are. (As does
God.)" The remainder of the exchange seems to have been added in
postproduction, probably after the producers realized that the implication
wasn't clear.
It's actually one of the better dubbed-in clarifications, concisely phrased
and with a rare touch of humor ("I'm a whore." "That too."). Most of the
time such things are clunky as all hell -- "Quickly, run and get Mr. Smith!
[cut to back of actor's head] He's the sheriff, you know!"
Don Sample
"Mike Zeares" <mze...@yahoo.com> wrote:
I was personally more bothered by the cock-up with the Order of
Aurelius. Back in Buffy season 1, they were clearly outside
contractors, brought in by the Master to do a special job for him.
Discovering that they were in town was the big clue that led to Giles
finding the prophecy. The Master being the head of the OoA was
something that the writers of "The Monster Book" made up.
--
Quando omni flunkus moritati
Visit the Buffy Body Count at <http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/>
KenM47
OK, but staying true to the Buffy-verse, Angel remains a unique dead
husk occupied by two souls - one human and one demon.
Darla is living aging flesh occupied by a single soul.
Angel is still seeking redemption. This Darla was a clean slate
already muddied by her going along with W&H and the death of her phony
husband and the owners of that house. She now has deaths on her
conscience from her memories as a vampire and now as a full human.
Ken (Brooklyn)
One Bit Shy
news:18na921i2j30eg6u6...@4ax.com...
Oh, it doesn't bother me that much. It was just that the scene as a whole
kind of bored me, so I didn't have anything else to think about. ;-) And,
actually, it's the house itself that bothers me more than the prostitute
element. That's only two years into the Jamestown colony. I don't think
people were living in houses like that then.
OBS
Apteryx
news:dsample-5F3CD8...@news.giganews.com...
I was annoyed by that too, but it doesn't seem totally inconsistent. Between
the 16th and 20th century, the Master might have moved on from the OoA, but
as a former head of it, he'd still know how to contact them. Odd, though,
that Giles's books never told him back in NKABOTFD that the Master was a
former head of the order.
--
Apteryx
Lord Usher
>> I was personally more bothered by the cock-up with the Order of
>> Aurelius. Back in Buffy season 1, they were clearly outside
>> contractors, brought in by the Master to do a special job for him.
>> Discovering that they were in town was the big clue that led to Giles
>> finding the prophecy. The Master being the head of the OoA was
>> something that the writers of "The Monster Book" made up.
>
> I was annoyed by that too, but it doesn't seem totally inconsistent.
> Between the 16th and 20th century, the Master might have moved on from
> the OoA, but as a former head of it, he'd still know how to contact
> them. Odd, though, that Giles's books never told him back in NKABOTFD
> that the Master was a former head of the order.
Yeah, it's not an out-and-out error, but it is annoying that the authors
of the Buffyverse guides got their silly "vampire clan" obsession
validated like that.
A similar thing happens at the end of "Gingerbread," when Willow is
trying to de-rat Amy for the first time. She's supposed to be using the
same invocation as Amy did in BB&B: "Hecate, I hereby license thee to
depart." But instead of actually checking the earlier episode, the
writers pulled the spell from the transcript in the WATCHER'S GUIDE.
Problem is, there's an editing error in the transcript. It looks like
the authors got the rat spell mixed up with the love spell, and
mistakenly started the invocation with "Diana" instead of "Hecate."
Then, apparently realizing their mistake, they stuck "Hecate" in there
-- but they forgot to erase "Diana."
So the transcript includes the incorrect rendering "Diana Hecate, I
hereby license you to depart." And, sure enough, that's exactly what the
writers had Willow say in "Gingerbread." :p
But then, since Diana and Hecate are both aspects of the lunar goddess
in some versions of the mythology, it's not exactly wrong, I guess. Like
the Order of Aurelius thing, it's just annoying to see the mistake read
into canon.
3D Master
> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1150433234.1...@f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>> One of the things that I think is extremely clever is the way
>> "Darla" incorporates footage from "Fool For Love," showing us
>> the other half of what was going on. The synergy between the two
>> all the flashback stuff was shot together; that would seem easiest.
>> But that would also suggest that either Doug and Tim would need to be
>> in constant communication while writing their shows, or that they were
>> "assigned" the flashbacks first and built everything else around
>> them. Anyway, we see who the passers-by were who bumped into a certain
>> poet from the Ministry Of Silly Walks. More to the point, this episode
>> addresses why exactly Angel was one of the Four Footsmen in 1900
>> despite having gotten a soul a few years earlier. The actual content
>> of this stuff neither captivated me nor repelled me; it's competent.
>> It makes sense that he'd take at least one shot at ignoring his
>> conscience, and that Darla would watch, put things together, and test
>> him the way she does.
>
> This is where the parallel between Angel and his soul and Spike and his chip
> are strongest. The soul didn't immediately make Angel a good person. He
> wanted to continue as he had been. But the soul punished him with guilt when
> did. A mental pain rather than a physical one, but still stick rather than
> carrot. For all we know from this, it took him 50 years (till AYNOHYEB) to
> have any inclination to do good, and almost another 50 to have endurance for
> it. Perhaps Spike, with a similar amount of time...?
They're not. Angel didn't want to continue as he had been; he was lost,
he belonged nowhere. He wanted to belong to someone/something, and so he
goes back to Darla wanting to belong (to his gang) once again. Very
human failure, of course, Angel can never be the cold sadistic evil
sickening thing that Angelus was. Angelus was so bad that even wanting
to belong Angel couldn't dredge up even a fraction of Angelus. And so he
got kicked out of his gang again.
3D Master
--
~~~~~
"I've got something to say; it's better to burn out than to fade away!"
- The Kurgan, Highlander
"Give me some sugar, baby!"
- Ashley J. 'Ash' Williams, Army of Darkness
~~~~~
Author of several stories, which can be found here:
http://members.chello.nl/~jg.temolder1/