AOQ Review 7-1: "Lessons"
Arbitrar Of Quality
threads.
BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
Season Seven, Episode 1: "Lessons"
(or "THE BEST BREASTS OF ALL THE MOTHERS")
Writer: Joss Whedon
Director: David Solomon
Since I commented on it last season, I suppose I should follow up by
saying that it's good to have Joss as a credited writer again.
I have no idea why we're in Istanbul. The show doesn't go back
there either, making it even easier to make the requisite "Istanbul
(Not Constantinople)" jokes. I thought I saw Spike watching this
sequence, since I was expecting this to be a way to re-introduce him,
but apparently not. That fades into the sense of going back to our
roots right from the start, as Buffy actually decides to take Dawn
under her wing as a pseudo-Slayerette, allowing references to the first
time, chronologically speaking, that we saw Buffy. The difference is
that she picked up the stake and kept stabbing, which is why she's
our hero and Dawn will never be. The show doesn't forget that, at
the same time as it doesn't forget trying to let Buffy get a little
less overprotective.
Before we get into the rest of the show, some characters exist in
isolation. Anya (since when does Halfrek ever call her that?) is still
in stasis, not human but not much of a demon. Willow and Giles are
entirely isolated from the others, and it's interesting to see the
latter seemingly belatedly taking a few steps towards taking
responsibility for her. Of course, this is also convenient for the
writers, since they don't have to write anything about how things
were between her and the Scoobies in the immediate aftermath of
"Grave." It's a potentially good setup having her with the
still-unseen Coven, learning about controlling her powers and
apparently soaking her head in carrot juice. Dramatically speaking,
we've seen Willow go through the denial thing, so having her somehow
tied to the magic forever after her "not going back" stage is more
interesting storytelling.
So Sunnydale High School can't be kept down, huh? It's a little
early to get a read on Principal Wood, but he seems like he'll be
important, provided he lives long enough (black guy + fantasy show, you
know...). I wonder how much he knows relative to someone like Snyder,
who had an idea of what he was involved in but never understood it.
Guy definitely seems like he has a sense that this isn't a normal
gig, and that's tied in with a hint of humor ("what, you think I
got this job based on seniority?"). Him hiring Buffy at the end is a
pleasant surprise, and I'm interested to see how high school fits
back into BTVS after all these (well, three) years. The ghosts tie
into the theme of the continuing relevance of the past, and are
appropriately scary in their early sudden appearances. The device of
having them represent themselves as products of Buffy's failure -
you were supposed to be the Protector, but where were you when I was
being killed back in S2? - gives them the necessary grounding in our
heroes' lives, and possibly in the thematic shape of Season Seven
too.
That's the cue for Spike to pop up, letting us know what he'd be
like without the steady infusion of peroxide and with a soul. I was
saying that he was talking a little like Drusilla, and then of course
she appeared at the end. His scene with Buffy doesn't seem to play
quite right, other than the classic delivery on "I'll get back to
you." I think she seems too... pleasant. I could imagine anger,
discomfort, intense curiousity, or deepening confusion, but the casual
almost-friendliness doesn't ring right. Mrs. Quality thinks that
Marsters doesn't seem to be very good at doing "insane;" jury's
still out on that for me.
Dawn is most enjoyable to watch when her quirks are prominent, as seen
when she guarantees that she won't see anyone invisible, or when she
gets the others in her class to chuckle at the Whedon-speak. And
she's slightly better at cover stories than the rest of the family.
Again, she's not Buffy, despite a few flashes of leadership skill.
But it's interesting to see Little Sister in the same world that
Buffy lived in at the beginning of the series but is now emotionally
much older and far away. The kids even form their own makeshift
Scoobie Gang of those that supposedly no one will miss (note to ghosts:
going after the Slayer's sister doesn't exactly fit the profile),
but I don't think there's any suggestion that they'll be more
than bit players.
Okay, so what's the deal with the talisman? It seems like the show
is missing a scene in which more information is provided than
"there's always a talisman." Unless that was supposed to be the
joke? Or maybe Buffy not revealing where she first heard about it is
the main reason it's there.
And what's the deal with the sweaters? It's summer in California.
When the hell does anyone need a sweater? Do they keep the A/C at full
blast in every building in the state or something?
I love the idea of in some way "going back" to the beginning. A
beginning that transcends both science and religion, apparently. The
end of a big epic story should reflect how it started in some way. And
one of my fanboy weaknesses is that I get filled with squeeing joy at
stuff like the Big Bad Parade at the end, keeping everyone mostly in
character but Spike-obsessed at the same time (he never met Wilkins,
did he? Not sure about the Master). I don't even care what it means
yet, I just eat that kind of stuff up. (Odds are 50/50 that this is
what first got OBS thinking about whether Drusilla was the most
important villain of S2.)
This Is Really Stupid But I Laughed Anyway moment(s):
- "Is there anything you don't know everything about?"
"Synchronized swimming. Complete mystery to me"
- "How exactly do you 'make' cereal?" "You put the box near
the milk. I saw it on the Food Channel"
- The dog tragedy
- Dawn's excitement over the cell reception
- "Again, wrong sister. I'm the one that dates dead guys. And, no
offense, but they were hotties. I mean, I'm sure you had a great
personality, but..."
So...
One-sentence summary: A great way to start a final season.
AOQ rating: Good
[Season Seven so far:
1) "Lessons" - Good]
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
> much older and far away. The kids even form their own makeshift
> Scoobie Gang of those that supposedly no one will miss (note to ghosts:
> going after the Slayer's sister doesn't exactly fit the profile),
> but I don't think there's any suggestion that they'll be more
> than bit players.
welcome to the slayerettes - the next generation
if youre like most people youll heartily tire of them by the end of season
(season six - the big bad is life itself
season seven - the big bad is annoyingly cute little kids)
> one of my fanboy weaknesses is that I get filled with squeeing joy at
> stuff like the Big Bad Parade at the end, keeping everyone mostly in
> character but Spike-obsessed at the same time (he never met Wilkins,
> did he? Not sure about the Master). I don't even care what it means
wilkins was aware of spike presence is season two
and sent the welcoming committee to the magic box in season three
they mightve met offscreen
darla was an acolyte of the master
and she mightve introduced spike and drusilla at some time
again offscreen (at least offscreen so far)
meow arf meow - they are performing horrible experiments in space
major grubert is watching you - beware the bakalite
there can only be one or two - the airtight garage has you neo
Elisi
> Season Seven, Episode 1: "Lessons"
> (or "THE BEST BREASTS OF ALL THE MOTHERS")
> Writer: Joss Whedon
> Director: David Solomon
Hurrah! Review! I was getting very tired of S6 there... (or of the same
old arguments that have been going on since it first aired and I wasn't
even around fandom back then.)
> The show doesn't forget that, at
> the same time as it doesn't forget trying to let Buffy get a little
> less overprotective.
Well it goes to show that Buffy really did follow up on that teary
speech in Grave - and that Dawn is (thankfully) blossoming and happy as
a result.
> Before we get into the rest of the show, some characters exist in
> isolation.
"Understand we'll go hand in hand but we'll walk alone in fear..."
I kinda like the fact that they're all physically isolated from each
other. As sharp reminder of what happened last year - and how they were
all together (except Buffy) in Bargaining. Can they be brought back
toghether? Or are some of them lost forever?
Anya (since when does Halfrek ever call her that?)
Since she started being pathetic?
> Willow and Giles are
> entirely isolated from the others, and it's interesting to see the
> latter seemingly belatedly taking a few steps towards taking
> responsibility for her. Of course, this is also convenient for the
> writers, since they don't have to write anything about how things
> were between her and the Scoobies in the immediate aftermath of
> "Grave." It's a potentially good setup having her with the
> still-unseen Coven, learning about controlling her powers and
> apparently soaking her head in carrot juice. Dramatically speaking,
> we've seen Willow go through the denial thing, so having her somehow
> tied to the magic forever after her "not going back" stage is more
> interesting storytelling.
Yup. He also sweeps the 'addiction' thing away just like that.
> So Sunnydale High School can't be kept down, huh? It's a little
> early to get a read on Principal Wood, but he seems like he'll be
> important, provided he lives long enough (black guy + fantasy show, you
> know...).
Hehehehehe. He's a veeeeeery charming guy.
> The device of
> having them represent themselves as products of Buffy's failure -
> you were supposed to be the Protector, but where were you when I was
> being killed back in S2? - gives them the necessary grounding in our
> heroes' lives, and possibly in the thematic shape of Season Seven
> too.
Also note that Buffy doesn't beat herself up over her failure. She
doesn't try to explain why she couldn't save them etc - she just wants
to get her sister back.
> That's the cue for Spike to pop up, letting us know what he'd be
> like without the steady infusion of peroxide and with a soul. I was
> saying that he was talking a little like Drusilla, and then of course
> she appeared at the end. His scene with Buffy doesn't seem to play
> quite right, other than the classic delivery on "I'll get back to
> you." I think she seems too... pleasant. I could imagine anger,
> discomfort, intense curiousity, or deepening confusion, but the casual
> almost-friendliness doesn't ring right.
Well if you'd waited *months* for that scene, you'd maybe have
understood how she felt. Remeber she's not seen him since The Incident.
And then suddenly he pops up, looking bizarre and acting even stranger.
I think she knew that he was sorry for what he (almost) did (she was
going to take Dawn for him to look after remember), so not in a
'I'm-going-to-pommel-him mood anway, but at that moment she was just
completely blindsided. Anyway - wait and see!
> Okay, so what's the deal with the talisman? Or maybe Buffy not revealing where she first >heard about it is the main reason it's there.
You know I think so, because it's never mentioned again. It's one of
those stupid plot device thingies, in this case to show that Buffy is
keeping secrets again (and why is she keeping Spike a secret? I think
this ties in with your confusion above about why she was so friendly -
I think she has absolutely no clue about him. And therefore doesn't
know how to respond.)
> And what's the deal with the sweaters? It's summer in California.
> When the hell does anyone need a sweater? Do they keep the A/C at full
> blast in every building in the state or something?
No idea. Wacthed The Zeppo the other day and Buffy is wearing this huge
furry coat thing in the middle of the day - in sunshine. Blame the
costume people!
> I love the idea of in some way "going back" to the beginning. A
> beginning that transcends both science and religion, apparently. The
> end of a big epic story should reflect how it started in some way. And
> one of my fanboy weaknesses is that I get filled with squeeing joy at
> stuff like the Big Bad Parade at the end, keeping everyone mostly in
> character but Spike-obsessed at the same time (he never met Wilkins,
> did he? Not sure about the Master). I don't even care what it means
> yet, I just eat that kind of stuff up.
I love the ending. I'm doing a re-watch (since I've not watched S7 all
in order since it first aired), and this scene still makes me all
a-flutter.
> This Is Really Stupid But I Laughed Anyway moment(s):
> - "Again, wrong sister. I'm the one that dates dead guys. And, no
> offense, but they were hotties. I mean, I'm sure you had a great
> personality, but..."
Ah, now that's an interesting line - it would seem that Buffy has now
added Spike to her dating history and is even speaking of him
favourably! (Of course they were zombie ghosts, but still... it says a
lot about how Buffy's brain works.)
> One-sentence summary: A great way to start a final season.
>
> AOQ rating: Good
It only gets better on re-watch - it does a superb job of setting up
the themes and story of the season, and is easily the best of the
season openers. The end just _might_ tip it over into Excellent for
me... I'm still debating.
jil...@hotmail.com
episodes! But I can do it, I can.
Yes, where DID the talisman come from? When I first watched this, I
speculated: a student whose big sister/brother died wants revenge on
Buffy by going after Dawn (how would this person have a clue? Well,
Buffy doesn't have a secret identity in this town, does she...?). Then
there is Principal Wood. His words, though said seemingly innocently,
put Buffy off-balance. Then there's "I actually have heard of you,
Miss Summers. Graduated from the old high school, am I right?" She
finds that suspicious. Slayer instincts kicking up, perhaps. Though
the ghosts don't seem to appear until Buffy touches the talisman, so
perhaps it could have been meant for anyone, just to cause random
chaos.
But please, does anyone believe Wood when he says "The school board
recommended I spend a little time reading your record...." "Excuse me,
new Principal Wood. There's this girl, she graduated a few years ago.
We think you should read her record. Just in case."
Well, I also have my theories on the first meeting with Spike. It's
been months. She's expected him every night to appear with
declarations of "I love you, you really love me, we must have sex.
That thing in the bathroom was only a glitch! I am EVIL, you know!"
She's imagined and thought out what she's going to say so many times
and then suddenly, he's actually there. It was just the shock. And
then, of course, she has Dawn to save. She doesn't really have time to
make a big fuss over Spike.
Ah, I'm reminded. They aren't ghosts. Spike says "Manifest spirits
controlled by a talisman, raised to seek vengeance. A 4-year-old could
figure it."
Actually, for some reason Wood's last line in this episode really made
me warm to him despite my doubts: "Well, that's great. Look at that.
It's not even noon, and I've already bullied my first family member
into helping out. I'm going to be the best principal ever!"
Don Sample
"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
>
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Seven, Episode 1: "Lessons"
> (or "THE BEST BREASTS OF ALL THE MOTHERS")
> Writer: Joss Whedon
> Director: David Solomon
>
> Since I commented on it last season, I suppose I should follow up by
> saying that it's good to have Joss as a credited writer again.
>
> I have no idea why we're in Istanbul. The show doesn't go back
> there either, making it even easier to make the requisite "Istanbul
> (Not Constantinople)" jokes. I thought I saw Spike watching this
> sequence, since I was expecting this to be a way to re-introduce him,
> but apparently not.
A lot of people thought that was Spike lurking in the doorway, leading
to a lot of paused tapes, trying to get a good look at that face.
> That fades into the sense of going back to our
> roots right from the start, as Buffy actually decides to take Dawn
> under her wing as a pseudo-Slayerette, allowing references to the first
> time, chronologically speaking, that we saw Buffy. The difference is
> that she picked up the stake and kept stabbing, which is why she's
> our hero and Dawn will never be. The show doesn't forget that, at
> the same time as it doesn't forget trying to let Buffy get a little
> less overprotective.
Dawn gets to fight the vampire, but the main gist of the Lesson Buffy is
teaching her is that she *isn't* ready to take on a vampire on her own
yet. Not even one that's fresh from the grave and hasn't yet learned
all the fancy martial arts they inevitably seem to pick up.
> So Sunnydale High School can't be kept down, huh? It's a little
> early to get a read on Principal Wood, but he seems like he'll be
> important, provided he lives long enough (black guy + fantasy show, you
> know...).
I was strongly reminded of Mr. Platt, the school psychologist back in
"Beauty and the Beasts."
> I wonder how much he knows relative to someone like Snyder,
> who had an idea of what he was involved in but never understood it.
> Guy definitely seems like he has a sense that this isn't a normal
> gig, and that's tied in with a hint of humor ("what, you think I
> got this job based on seniority?").
Fun fact: Robin Wood was given a deliberately androgynous name. The
gender of the character wasn't decided until they actually cast the
part. If they'd seen an actress they liked, Robin would have been a
woman.
> Him hiring Buffy at the end is a
> pleasant surprise, and I'm interested to see how high school fits
> back into BTVS after all these (well, three) years.
Getting Buffy out of the DmP was supposedly the *only* change that UPN
ever requested. Some of their sponsors weren't happy with the way the
fast food industry was being portrayed.
> The ghosts tie
> into the theme of the continuing relevance of the past, and are
> appropriately scary in their early sudden appearances. The device of
> having them represent themselves as products of Buffy's failure -
> you were supposed to be the Protector, but where were you when I was
> being killed back in S2? - gives them the necessary grounding in our
> heroes' lives, and possibly in the thematic shape of Season Seven
> too.
Were they failures, or were they just messing with Buffy's head?
> That's the cue for Spike to pop up, letting us know what he'd be
> like without the steady infusion of peroxide and with a soul. I was
> saying that he was talking a little like Drusilla, and then of course
> she appeared at the end. His scene with Buffy doesn't seem to play
> quite right, other than the classic delivery on "I'll get back to
> you." I think she seems too... pleasant. I could imagine anger,
> discomfort, intense curiousity, or deepening confusion, but the casual
> almost-friendliness doesn't ring right. Mrs. Quality thinks that
> Marsters doesn't seem to be very good at doing "insane;" jury's
> still out on that for me.
As we see at the end, there are things that *are* talking to Spike, that
no one else can see, so he's saner than he seems.
> Dawn is most enjoyable to watch when her quirks are prominent, as seen
> when she guarantees that she won't see anyone invisible, or when she
> gets the others in her class to chuckle at the Whedon-speak.
And WGF can bring back another of his sigs now. Something from the
script that didn't make it into the final version of the episode: Dawn
has a moment where she imagines doing her "introduce myself to the
class" bit by telling the truth about herself:
... and my sister is a vampire slayer,
her best friend is a witch who went
bonkers and tried to destroy the
world, um, I actually used to be a
little ball of energy until about two
years ago when some monks changed the
past and made me Buffy's sister and
for some reason, a big klepto. My
best friends are Leticia Jones, who
moved to San Diego because this town
is evil, and a floppy eared demon
named Clem.
> And
> she's slightly better at cover stories than the rest of the family.
> Again, she's not Buffy, despite a few flashes of leadership skill.
> But it's interesting to see Little Sister in the same world that
> Buffy lived in at the beginning of the series but is now emotionally
> much older and far away. The kids even form their own makeshift
> Scoobie Gang of those that supposedly no one will miss (note to ghosts:
> going after the Slayer's sister doesn't exactly fit the profile),
> but I don't think there's any suggestion that they'll be more
> than bit players.
There was a lot of fear that they really would be the "new scooby gang."
(Or more accurately, a Scrappy Gang.)
One thing I must comment on was Dawn's handling of herself in the
cellar, first keeping Kit and Carlos together, finding weapons to defend
herself, and then when Buffy shows up acting to support her in the
fight, feeding Buffy new weapons as she needs them. At one point Dawn
throws Buffy a pipe at exactly the right time, and Buffy catches it
without even looking, they're that good at working together.
>
> Okay, so what's the deal with the talisman? It seems like the show
> is missing a scene in which more information is provided than
> "there's always a talisman."
It's never explained, but I always figured Spike knew about it, because
it was Spike who put it there. That thing that no one else can see,
that he's having conversations with, made him do it.
> Unless that was supposed to be the
> joke? Or maybe Buffy not revealing where she first heard about it is
> the main reason it's there.
Some lessons Buffy just never learns. She's falling back into some of
her bad old high school habits herself. (Remember how long it took for
her to tell the truth about what happened when she sent Angel to hell,
and then how she never told anyone he was back?)
> And what's the deal with the sweaters? It's summer in California.
> When the hell does anyone need a sweater? Do they keep the A/C at full
> blast in every building in the state or something?
In Michelle's case, she wasn't too happy with the way they'd been
dressing her, and got them to let her pick out some of her own stuff,
including that outfit with the sweater...and then it was in the 90s the
day they filmed the going into the school scene.
> I love the idea of in some way "going back" to the beginning. A
> beginning that transcends both science and religion, apparently. The
> end of a big epic story should reflect how it started in some way. And
> one of my fanboy weaknesses is that I get filled with squeeing joy at
> stuff like the Big Bad Parade at the end, keeping everyone mostly in
> character but Spike-obsessed at the same time (he never met Wilkins,
> did he? Not sure about the Master). I don't even care what it means
> yet, I just eat that kind of stuff up. (Odds are 50/50 that this is
> what first got OBS thinking about whether Drusilla was the most
> important villain of S2.)
Given that Spike hung around a lot with Angel and Darla, he probably met
the Master. He clearly knew who the Master was, when he first arrived
in Sunnydale in season 2.
Between the opening scene, and the final scene, a fair number of people
figured out what was going on here: who the girl was, who the robed guys
were, and what Spike was having his little conversation with at the end.
--
Quando omni flunkus moritati
Visit the Buffy Body Count at <http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/>
Rowan Hawthorn
>> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
>> Season Seven, Episode 1: "Lessons"
>> (or "THE BEST BREASTS OF ALL THE MOTHERS")
>> Writer: Joss Whedon
>> Director: David Solomon
>
>
>> When the hell does anyone need a sweater? Do they keep the A/C at full
>> blast in every building in the state or something?
>
> No idea. Wacthed The Zeppo the other day and Buffy is wearing this huge
> furry coat thing in the middle of the day - in sunshine. Blame the
> costume people!
>
Not entirely; somewhere, maybe in one of the commentaries, it was
mentioned that MT really liked that sweater and insisted on wearing it
for this episode. Of course, then it turned out to be *really hot*
while they were shooting... :-)
--
Rowan Hawthorn
"Occasionally, I'm callous and strange." - Willow Rosenberg, "Buffy the
Vampire Slayer"
Don Sample
"Elisi" <eli...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > And what's the deal with the sweaters? It's summer in California.
> > When the hell does anyone need a sweater? Do they keep the A/C at full
> > blast in every building in the state or something?
>
> No idea. Wacthed The Zeppo the other day and Buffy is wearing this huge
> furry coat thing in the middle of the day - in sunshine. Blame the
> costume people!
It can be cold in California, even when the sun is shining. Remember,
"The Zeppo" takes place sometime around the beginning of February. It
was only a few episodes earlier that it snowed in Sunnydale.
Don Sample
"jil...@hotmail.com" <jil...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Oooh! It's so hard to discuss this without referring to later
> episodes! But I can do it, I can.
>
> Yes, where DID the talisman come from? When I first watched this, I
> speculated: a student whose big sister/brother died wants revenge on
> Buffy by going after Dawn (how would this person have a clue? Well,
> Buffy doesn't have a secret identity in this town, does she...?).
I still think it was Spike. See below.
> But please, does anyone believe Wood when he says "The school board
> recommended I spend a little time reading your record...." "Excuse me,
> new Principal Wood. There's this girl, she graduated a few years ago.
> We think you should read her record. Just in case."
Well, it could have gone something like:
Wood: So, any students I should be keeping my eye on? Any
who are having problems?
SB Rep: Well, there's Dawn Summers. She's been having a tough
time since her mother died. She's in her sister's
custody now. You should read *her* record!
> Ah, I'm reminded. They aren't ghosts. Spike says "Manifest spirits
> controlled by a talisman, raised to seek vengeance. A 4-year-old could
> figure it."
How would Spike know all that, if *he* wasn't the one who planted the
talisman?
> Actually, for some reason Wood's last line in this episode really made
> me warm to him despite my doubts: "Well, that's great. Look at that.
> It's not even noon, and I've already bullied my first family member
> into helping out. I'm going to be the best principal ever!"
Or, he's going to be eaten. Maybe he'll be a great principal, who gets
eaten.
Don Sample
Don Sample <dsa...@synapse.net> wrote:
> In article <1157692942....@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
> > I wonder how much he knows relative to someone like Snyder,
> > who had an idea of what he was involved in but never understood it.
> > Guy definitely seems like he has a sense that this isn't a normal
> > gig, and that's tied in with a hint of humor ("what, you think I
> > got this job based on seniority?").
>
> Fun fact: Robin Wood was given a deliberately androgynous name. The
> gender of the character wasn't decided until they actually cast the
> part. If they'd seen an actress they liked, Robin would have been a
> woman.
Another fun production fact: They actually filmed the Willow and Giles
scenes on location in England. They spent a lot of time scouting
locations, but the weather was so crappy they wound up filming it all in
Tony Head's back yard.
Espen Schjønberg
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
>
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Seven, Episode 1: "Lessons"
> (or "THE BEST BREASTS OF ALL THE MOTHERS")
> Writer: Joss Whedon
> Director: David Solomon
>
> Since I commented on it last season, I suppose I should follow up by
> saying that it's good to have Joss as a credited writer again.
After S6, this episode- to me- was such a new beginning. It was that good.
. And
> one of my fanboy weaknesses is that I get filled with squeeing joy at
> stuff like the Big Bad Parade at the end, keeping everyone mostly in
> character but Spike-obsessed at the same time (he never met Wilkins,
> did he? Not sure about the Master).
This speech which I was unspoiled of - is one of the best scenes ever on
Buffy, at least for me. After watching it a thousand times the part
where the big bad promises to go back to the early years is a bit
annoying, but it was such a good promise to me as a viewer, even this
can pass.
Anyhow: It is obvious Spike "must have" met the Master. And Wilkins:
What a ride. That talking about the soul, "So what'd you think? You'd
get your soul back and everything would be Jim Dandy? Soul's slipperier
than a greased weasel. Why do you think I sold mine? "
...
and the way he laughs. Excellent. When Wilkins laugh, I laugh. Even if
he is evil.
Of course, this is also the way the big bad evil here wants to make the
new ensouled Spike think he is still the murderous vampire he was, he
wants to make the ensouled Spike hold himself responsible for what the
evil creature did. He wants the ensouled vampire believe in continuity
where the continuity so has been broken. Smart.
> One-sentence summary: A great way to start a final season.
>
> AOQ rating: Good
Well, then Good is a bit low, isn't it?
Finally: Notice how the Morphing monster claims the same thing as Buffy:
It's about power. So, that is the game the bad guys play.
It's not a given thing the best way to win is to play the opponents game.
--
Espen
Elisi
Espen Schjønberg wrote:
> And Wilkins:
> What a ride. That talking about the soul, "So what'd you think? You'd
> get your soul back and everything would be Jim Dandy? Soul's slipperier
> than a greased weasel. Why do you think I sold mine? "
Thank you so much for quoting that! I was going to, but forgot (posting
at 7am? Not a good idea). Partly because it's wonderful to see The
Mayor again, but also because he proves unequivocally that Spike asked
for his soul.
>
> ...
>
> and the way he laughs. Excellent. When Wilkins laugh, I laugh. Even if
> he is evil.
Who cares - he's so much fun to watch! :)
> Of course, this is also the way the big bad evil here wants to make the
> new ensouled Spike think he is still the murderous vampire he was, he
> wants to make the ensouled Spike hold himself responsible for what the
> evil creature did. He wants the ensouled vampire believe in continuity
> where the continuity so has been broken. Smart.
Yup. Gevrq naq grfgrq zrgubqf naq nyy gung... (rapelcgvat, whfg gb frr
ubj ybat vg gnxrf NBD gb jbex vg bhg uvzfrys)
Natry: Vg jnfa'g zr.
Wraal: Vg jnfa'g lbh?
Natry: N qrzba vfa'g n zna. V jnf n zna bapr.
Wraal: Bu, lrf, naq jung n zna lbh jrer.
Znetnerg: N qehaxra, jubevat ynlnobhg, naq n greevoyr qvfnccbvagzrag gb
lbhe cneragf.
Natry: V jnf lbhat. V arire unq n punapr gb...
Znetnerg: Gb qvr bs flcuvyvf? Lbh jrer n jbeguyrff orvat orsber lbh
jrer *rire* n zbafgre.
Natry: Fgbc vg! Fgbc...
Wraal: V qba'g jnaan uheg lbh, Natry, ohg lbh unir gb haqrefgnaq.
Pehrygl'f gur bayl guvat lbh rire unq n gehr gnyrag sbe.
vague disclaimer
Don Sample <dsa...@synapse.net> wrote:
> In article <dsample-79F78F...@news.giganews.com>,
> Don Sample <dsa...@synapse.net> wrote:
>
> > In article <1157692942....@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> > "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > I wonder how much he knows relative to someone like Snyder,
> > > who had an idea of what he was involved in but never understood it.
> > > Guy definitely seems like he has a sense that this isn't a normal
> > > gig, and that's tied in with a hint of humor ("what, you think I
> > > got this job based on seniority?").
> >
> > Fun fact: Robin Wood was given a deliberately androgynous name. The
> > gender of the character wasn't decided until they actually cast the
> > part. If they'd seen an actress they liked, Robin would have been a
> > woman.
>
> Another fun production fact: They actually filmed the Willow and Giles
> scenes on location in England. They spent a lot of time scouting
> locations, but the weather was so crappy they wound up filming it all in
> Tony Head's back yard.
And apparently the horse was his horse, paid for by the proceeds of the
coffee adverts.
--
Wikipedia: like Usenet, moderated by trolls
Apteryx
news:1157692942....@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
>
> isolation. Anya (since when does Halfrek ever call her that?) is still
> in stasis, not human but not much of a demon.
I liked the intervention - at which all of Anys's demon friends were said to
be present. Although we might have figured from post-Entropy S6 that Anya's
heart wasn't really in the vengeane business anymore.
>
> So Sunnydale High School can't be kept down, huh? It's a little
> early to get a read on Principal Wood, but he seems like he'll be
> important, provided he lives long enough (black guy + fantasy show, you
> know...).
Black guy + fantasy show AND principal of Sunnydale High - that guy will
never be able to get life insurance.
> back into BTVS after all these (well, three) years. The ghosts tie
> into the theme of the continuing relevance of the past, and are
> appropriately scary in their early sudden appearances. The device of
> having them represent themselves as products of Buffy's failure -
> you were supposed to be the Protector, but where were you when I was
> being killed back in S2?
I think that's pretty weak myself. Clearly these aren't the only 3 who died
at SH while Buffy was there. Maybe the only 3 mad enough to blame Buffy for
it?
>
> That's the cue for Spike to pop up, letting us know what he'd be
> like without the steady infusion of peroxide and with a soul. I was
> saying that he was talking a little like Drusilla, and then of course
> she appeared at the end. His scene with Buffy doesn't seem to play
> quite right, other than the classic delivery on "I'll get back to
> you." I think she seems too... pleasant. I could imagine anger,
> discomfort, intense curiousity, or deepening confusion, but the casual
> almost-friendliness doesn't ring right. Mrs. Quality thinks that
> Marsters doesn't seem to be very good at doing "insane;" jury's
> still out on that for me.
I agree with Mrs Q that it is not well done and in fact gets irritating - I
was inclined to blame the writing.
> Dawn is most enjoyable to watch when her quirks are prominent, as seen
> when she guarantees that she won't see anyone invisible, or when she
> gets the others in her class to chuckle at the Whedon-speak. And
> she's slightly better at cover stories than the rest of the family.
> Again, she's not Buffy, despite a few flashes of leadership skill.
> But it's interesting to see Little Sister in the same world that
> Buffy lived in at the beginning of the series but is now emotionally
> much older and far away.
Most of the Dawn stuff is pretty good. The poor girl still finding being the
sister of the slayer a bit of a curse.
> Okay, so what's the deal with the talisman? It seems like the show
> is missing a scene in which more information is provided than
> "there's always a talisman." Unless that was supposed to be the
> joke? Or maybe Buffy not revealing where she first heard about it is
> the main reason it's there.
It pretty thin, and further weakens the story of the "manifest spirits",
which I guess is the A story here.
>
> I love the idea of in some way "going back" to the beginning. A
> beginning that transcends both science and religion, apparently. The
> end of a big epic story should reflect how it started in some way. And
> one of my fanboy weaknesses is that I get filled with squeeing joy at
> stuff like the Big Bad Parade at the end, keeping everyone mostly in
> character but Spike-obsessed at the same time (he never met Wilkins,
> did he? Not sure about the Master). I don't even care what it means
> yet, I just eat that kind of stuff up. (Odds are 50/50 that this is
> what first got OBS thinking about whether Drusilla was the most
> important villain of S2.)
If on the other hand they'd gotten Angel, it would have been pretty
confusing - bad enough that Buffy ends the parade of Big Bads :) But I
agree, the beginning and end of this episode are excellent (great to see
Wilkins again) - it's just all that stuff in between that lets it down.
> This Is Really Stupid But I Laughed Anyway moment(s):
> - "Is there anything you don't know everything about?"
> "Synchronized swimming. Complete mystery to me"
> - "How exactly do you 'make' cereal?" "You put the box near
> the milk. I saw it on the Food Channel"
> - The dog tragedy
> - Dawn's excitement over the cell reception
> - "Again, wrong sister. I'm the one that dates dead guys. And, no
> offense, but they were hotties. I mean, I'm sure you had a great
> personality, but..."
Aw, what about the duck?
> So...
>
> One-sentence summary: A great way to start a final season.
>
> AOQ rating: Good
Overall only a good Decent for me. But like the curate's egg, parts of it
are excellent. It's my 89th favourite BtVS episode, 9th best in season 7
Apteryx.
John Briggs
Well, the *house* is his house, paid for by the proceeds of the coffee
adverts. The horse was bought with loose change :-)
--
John Briggs
John Briggs
Well, the shoot was always going to be based on Tony's house (where I think
both Joss and Alyson were staying), so the locations were all very nearby
(with riding distance, certainly - as Vague points out, that is Tony's
horse) but they found that they needed to be close to cover for when it
rained.
--
John Briggs
Stephen Tempest
> The difference is
>that she picked up the stake and kept stabbing, which is why she's
>our hero and Dawn will never be. The show doesn't forget that, at
>the same time as it doesn't forget trying to let Buffy get a little
>less overprotective.
Although Dawn's still pretty effective for soeone without Slayer
strength and relexes.
Also a TIRSBILA moment for me:
"You're a little girl."
"Woman."
"You're a little woman."
"I'm taller than you!"
Such a classic teenage moment. <g> And I suspect Michelle enjoyed
saying the last line...
> It's a potentially good setup having her with the
>still-unseen Coven, learning about controlling her powers and
>apparently soaking her head in carrot juice.
Minor point: up until the end of season 6, Willow said "God!" as an
expletive quite a bit. In this episode (and for the rest of season 7)
she says "Goddess!" in the same context. Which suggests to me that in
her time at the Coven, she's genuinely converted to Wicca as a
religion, instead of paying it lip-service as a means to greater power
as before.
> His scene with Buffy doesn't seem to play
>quite right, other than the classic delivery on "I'll get back to
>you." I think she seems too... pleasant. I could imagine anger,
>discomfort, intense curiousity, or deepening confusion, but the casual
>almost-friendliness doesn't ring right. Mrs. Quality thinks that
>Marsters doesn't seem to be very good at doing "insane;" jury's
>still out on that for me.
Personally, I think Buffy isn't even sure if Spike's really there, or
if he's another of the ghosts or an illusion of some sort. Even if
he's really there, she's not ready to process that fact just yet.
>Dawn is most enjoyable to watch when her quirks are prominent, as seen
>when she guarantees that she won't see anyone invisible, or when she
>gets the others in her class to chuckle at the Whedon-speak.
Dawn becomes one of my favourites on the show this season.
To paraphrase Luke from 'The Harvest', "I thought you nothing more
than a plot device, girl. Congratulations. You've just been
upgraded... to a character."
>Okay, so what's the deal with the talisman? It seems like the show
>is missing a scene in which more information is provided than
>"there's always a talisman." Unless that was supposed to be the
>joke? Or maybe Buffy not revealing where she first heard about it is
>the main reason it's there.
I see a few people have already advanced the theory that Spike put it
there. Another candidate often suggested was Principle Wood himself...
I mean, the guy's clearly got a Sinister Secret.
Or maybe it was the real unrevealed evil mastermind of season 7...
Xander!! Think of the profit he'll make repairing the damage caused to
the floor in the girls' toilets...
>And
>one of my fanboy weaknesses is that I get filled with squeeing joy at
>stuff like the Big Bad Parade at the end,
You're not the only one. Incidentally, were you guessing who Spike's
interlocutor would turn into next, and if so how many did you get
right?
I liked how both the first and the last line of the episode was the
same, and delivered by Buffy (or possibly "Buffy") in both cases:
'It's about power.'
As a reminder, Willow said almost the same thing last season at the
height of her rampage: "Buffy, I gotta tell you - I get it now. The
Slayer thing really isn't about the violence. It's about the power."
It's just possible that we're seeing a Theme being laid out for us
here. ;)
So, was that a shapechanging monster, a spirit taking on different
forms, the actual ghosts of those people (well, not Drusilla's ghost
since presumably she's still alive... er., undead. The others were
all killed, though), a spell causing Spike to have delusions, or
Spike's own tormented subconscious projecting itself?
>- Dawn's excitement over the cell reception
A classic "hanging a lantern on things". I guarantee that if they
hadn't included that line, there'd be a 300-post argument about how
you can't make a mobile phone call from an underground cellar, and
this is proof of Bad Writing and that the show had Jumped The Shark,
and it was probably all Marti Noxon's fault.
I really liked this episode. It's not one of the big classics in
regard to its themes, but the dialogue sparkles and everything just
fits into place
Stephen
John Briggs
> Espen Schjønberg wrote:
>
>> And Wilkins:
>> What a ride. That talking about the soul, "So what'd you think? You'd
>> get your soul back and everything would be Jim Dandy? Soul's
>> slipperier than a greased weasel. Why do you think I sold mine? "
>
> Thank you so much for quoting that! I was going to, but forgot
> (posting at 7am? Not a good idea). Partly because it's wonderful to
> see The Mayor again, but also because he proves unequivocally that
> Spike asked for his soul.
Not really - those who claim (goodness, knows why) that Spike didn't ask for
his soul would have you believe that the scriptwriters changed their minds
between episodes (or possibly between seasons).
--
John Briggs
Ken from Chicago
<jil...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1157697188.3...@d34g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
Talismans, artifacts, portals, demons, in Sunnydale? It must be Tuesday.
> Actually, for some reason Wood's last line in this episode really made
> me warm to him despite my doubts: "Well, that's great. Look at that.
> It's not even noon, and I've already bullied my first family member
> into helping out. I'm going to be the best principal ever!"
You must have worked in ejamacashun!
-- Ken from Chicago (who had, where there were"no mistakes, merely 'learning
opportunities'")
Ken from Chicago
"Espen Schjønberg" <ess...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:edr91m$ncp$1...@readme.uio.no...
> On 08.09.2006 07:22, Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
>> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
>> threads.
>>
>>
>> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
>> Season Seven, Episode 1: "Lessons"
>> (or "THE BEST BREASTS OF ALL THE MOTHERS")
>> Writer: Joss Whedon
>> Director: David Solomon
>>
>> Since I commented on it last season, I suppose I should follow up by
>> saying that it's good to have Joss as a credited writer again.
>
> After S6, this episode- to me- was such a new beginning. It was that good.
The stink of S6 swept away by the bright new fresh smell of the shiny new
season. SNNNNNNIIIIIIFFFFFF! Season debut freshness!
> . And
>> one of my fanboy weaknesses is that I get filled with squeeing joy at
>> stuff like the Big Bad Parade at the end, keeping everyone mostly in
>> character but Spike-obsessed at the same time (he never met Wilkins,
>> did he? Not sure about the Master).
>
> This speech which I was unspoiled of - is one of the best scenes ever on
> Buffy, at least for me. After watching it a thousand times the part where
> the big bad promises to go back to the early years is a bit annoying, but
> it was such a good promise to me as a viewer, even this can pass.
>
> Anyhow: It is obvious Spike "must have" met the Master. And Wilkins: What
> a ride. That talking about the soul, "So what'd you think? You'd get your
> soul back and everything would be Jim Dandy? Soul's slipperier than a
> greased weasel. Why do you think I sold mine? "
>
> ...
>
> and the way he laughs. Excellent. When Wilkins laugh, I laugh. Even if he
> is evil.
He's evil, but personable.
> Of course, this is also the way the big bad evil here wants to make the
> new ensouled Spike think he is still the murderous vampire he was, he
> wants to make the ensouled Spike hold himself responsible for what the
> evil creature did. He wants the ensouled vampire believe in continuity
> where the continuity so has been broken. Smart.
>
>> One-sentence summary: A great way to start a final season.
>>
>> AOQ rating: Good
>
> Well, then Good is a bit low, isn't it?
>
> Finally: Notice how the Morphing monster claims the same thing as Buffy:
> It's about power. So, that is the game the bad guys play.
>
> It's not a given thing the best way to win is to play the opponents game.
>
> --
> Espen
Natry fnvq gur fnzr guvat va gur svany frnfba bs NATRY. Orvat tbbq vf abg
rabhtu vs lbh ynpx cbjre, bgurejvfr, rivy pna fvzcyl artngr lbhe tbbq jbexf.
-- Ken from Chicago
Ken from Chicago
"Apteryx" <apt...@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
news:edri0k$362$1...@emma.aioe.org...
> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1157692942....@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
>> threads.
>>
>>
>> Before we get into the rest of the show, some characters exist in
>> isolation. Anya (since when does Halfrek ever call her that?) is still
>> in stasis, not human but not much of a demon.
>
> I liked the intervention - at which all of Anys's demon friends were said
> to be present. Although we might have figured from post-Entropy S6 that
> Anya's heart wasn't really in the vengeane business anymore.
>
>>
>> So Sunnydale High School can't be kept down, huh? It's a little
>> early to get a read on Principal Wood, but he seems like he'll be
>> important, provided he lives long enough (black guy + fantasy show, you
>> know...).
>
> Black guy + fantasy show AND principal of Sunnydale High - that guy will
> never be able to get life insurance.
<snip>
Like a traffic cop in SMALLVILLE.
-- Ken from Chicago
Mike Zeares
Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
>
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Seven, Episode 1: "Lessons"
> (or "THE BEST BREASTS OF ALL THE MOTHERS")
> Writer: Joss Whedon
> Director: David Solomon
I wrote a bunch of stuff and then had computer problems and don't feel
like retyping it. It wasn't anything particularly insightful, as per
usual with me. I did briefly wonder how the scene with Spike and
Buffy might have played if she hadn't been distracted by needing to
find Dawn. I didn't think she was almost friendly, but she was gentler
than I would have expected. Or maybe not, if we want to go with the
"he's her woobie" theory. Anyway, I'm glad we're on to S7. Huzzah!
-- Mike Zeares
Espen Schjønberg
The point is of course, the cellphone Cordelia had in the very first
episode of the show didn't really work, she just pretended it did.
Sunnydale was so under bad influence of mysterious electromagic from the
hellmouth, cellphones were really useless.
Even if the companies built base station after base station.
You noticed how hard it was for the Initiative in S4 to get their
equipment to work 50 meters from their own doorstep. I guess that's why
they even came to the place- not the high mortality rate.
However, in late S6 something happened by a fluke, possibly the shifting
of that Temple we never had heard of, which cured the bad reception.
Now, Sunnydale has the best reception in the world, given it has one
base station every 10 meter.
Or something;-)
--
Espen
Vanya6724
Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
>
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Seven, Episode 1: "Lessons"
> (or "THE BEST BREASTS OF ALL THE MOTHERS")
> Writer: Joss Whedon
> Director: David Solomon
>
> Since I commented on it last season, I suppose I should follow up by
> saying that it's good to have Joss as a credited writer again.
>
> I have no idea why we're in Istanbul. The show doesn't go back
> there either, making it even easier to make the requisite "Istanbul
> (Not Constantinople)" jokes.
I thought this was a nice allusion to "Alias". If "Alias" was going to
borrow the idea of a powerful young woman who is the "chosen one" then
Buffy could borrow the exotic locale and the girl running around in
funky clothing .
Jeff Jacoby
> In article <1157697185....@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> "Elisi" <eli...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> > And what's the deal with the sweaters? It's summer in California.
>> > When the hell does anyone need a sweater? Do they keep the A/C at full
>> > blast in every building in the state or something?
>>
>> No idea. Wacthed The Zeppo the other day and Buffy is wearing this huge
>> furry coat thing in the middle of the day - in sunshine. Blame the
>> costume people!
>
> It can be cold in California, even when the sun is shining. Remember,
> "The Zeppo" takes place sometime around the beginning of February. It
> was only a few episodes earlier that it snowed in Sunnydale.
It's also a coastal town. The onshore breezes can be
quite cool (Ever been to SF in the summer? It can be
damned cold!).
Jeff
buck naked
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
>
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Seven, Episode 1: "Lessons"
> (or "THE BEST BREASTS OF ALL THE MOTHERS")
> Writer: Joss Whedon
> Director: David Solomon
>
> Since I commented on it last season, I suppose I should follow up by
> saying that it's good to have Joss as a credited writer again.
>
>
> One-sentence summary: A great way to start a final season.
>
> AOQ rating: Good
>
> [Season Seven so far:
> 1) "Lessons" - Good]
I LOVED this episode, I had such high hopes for this season. For a few
episodes this season rivals my favorite seasons..but, I just lost interest.
Mind you, this is the only season I don't own on DVD, so I could be
suffering from CRS (can't remember shi..umm...squat).
George W Harris
wrote:
:> back into BTVS after all these (well, three) years. The ghosts tie
:> into the theme of the continuing relevance of the past, and are
:> appropriately scary in their early sudden appearances. The device of
:> having them represent themselves as products of Buffy's failure -
:> you were supposed to be the Protector, but where were you when I was
:> being killed back in S2?
:
:I think that's pretty weak myself. Clearly these aren't the only 3 who died
:at SH while Buffy was there. Maybe the only 3 mad enough to blame Buffy for
:it?
I was disappointed that they didn't bring back
actors of characters who actually died in the first three
seasons (and yes, I was obsessive enough to check).
I <3 continuity porn.
--
"If you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce, they taste more like
prunes than rhubarb does" -Groucho Marx
George W. Harris For actual email address, replace each 'u' with an 'i'
Jeff Jacoby
[snip]
> The stink of S6 swept away by the bright new fresh smell of the shiny new
> season. SNNNNNNIIIIIIFFFFFF! Season debut freshness!
New Season Smell, you can buy it in stores nowadays.
Jeff
vague disclaimer
"John Briggs" <john.b...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
Good point, well made.
vague disclaimer
"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
> Okay, so what's the deal with the talisman?
I think the prime suspect goes by the name of Mr McGuffin...
vague disclaimer
"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
>
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Seven, Episode 1: "Lessons"
> (or "THE BEST BREASTS OF ALL THE MOTHERS")
> Writer: Joss Whedon
> Director: David Solomon
Couple of other points.
Xander looking unconscionably spiffy. From waster to site foreman with
nice car in two years.
Note how, to "Adam", Spike is no longer Hostile 17, but just Number 17.
Opus the Penguin
> I have no idea why we're in Istanbul. The show doesn't go back
> there either, making it even easier to make the requisite "Istanbul
> (Not Constantinople)" jokes.
I hate byzantine jokes like those.
--
Opus the Penguin
The best darn penguin in all of Usenet
Scott Lurndal
>
>And what's the deal with the sweaters? It's summer in California.
>When the hell does anyone need a sweater? Do they keep the A/C at full
>blast in every building in the state or something?
The coastal areas can be quite cool in September. It's only supposed
to get to 59F in San Francisco today, for example, and only 70 in
sunnyVale.
scott
Don Sample
wrote:
> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1157692942....@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> > threads.
> >
> > back into BTVS after all these (well, three) years. The ghosts tie
> > into the theme of the continuing relevance of the past, and are
> > appropriately scary in their early sudden appearances. The device of
> > having them represent themselves as products of Buffy's failure -
> > you were supposed to be the Protector, but where were you when I was
> > being killed back in S2?
>
> I think that's pretty weak myself. Clearly these aren't the only 3 who died
> at SH while Buffy was there. Maybe the only 3 mad enough to blame Buffy for
> it?
I think they were deliberately messing with her head. Na rneyl fnyib va
gur Svefg'f cflpubybtvpny pnzcnvta ntnvafg Ohssl.
>
> >
> > That's the cue for Spike to pop up, letting us know what he'd be
> > like without the steady infusion of peroxide and with a soul. I was
> > saying that he was talking a little like Drusilla, and then of course
> > she appeared at the end. His scene with Buffy doesn't seem to play
> > quite right, other than the classic delivery on "I'll get back to
> > you." I think she seems too... pleasant. I could imagine anger,
> > discomfort, intense curiousity, or deepening confusion, but the casual
> > almost-friendliness doesn't ring right. Mrs. Quality thinks that
> > Marsters doesn't seem to be very good at doing "insane;" jury's
> > still out on that for me.
>
> I agree with Mrs Q that it is not well done and in fact gets irritating - I
> was inclined to blame the writing.
Spike's scenes make more sense once you find out what's really going on
with him.
Don Sample
Stephen Tempest <ste...@stempest.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> writes:
>
>
> > The difference is
> >that she picked up the stake and kept stabbing, which is why she's
> >our hero and Dawn will never be. The show doesn't forget that, at
> >the same time as it doesn't forget trying to let Buffy get a little
> >less overprotective.
>
> Although Dawn's still pretty effective for soeone without Slayer
> strength and relexes.
>
> Also a TIRSBILA moment for me:
> "You're a little girl."
> "Woman."
> "You're a little woman."
> "I'm taller than you!"
>
> Such a classic teenage moment. <g> And I suspect Michelle enjoyed
> saying the last line...
And as part of the "picking out some of my own clothes" deal she made
with Joss, she got to start wearing shoes with heels.
>
> I liked how both the first and the last line of the episode was the
> same, and delivered by Buffy (or possibly "Buffy") in both cases:
> 'It's about power.'
Another little bit that makes you go "Hmmm?":
With the reworked opening credits, this marks the second season in a row
in which the "power shot" of Buffy at the end, isn't really Buffy. In
season 6's credits it was the Buffybot. And now for this season it's
whatever is tormenting Spike down there in the school basement.
Don Sample
"Vanya6724" <vanya...@pochta.ru> wrote:
Gur erny Nyvnf ubzntr qbrfa'g pbzr hagvy arkg rcvfbqr. (Nyfb cbffvoyl n
"Eha Ybyn Eha" ubzntr.)
Don Sample
vague disclaimer <l64o...@dea.spamcon.org> wrote:
> In article <1157692942....@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote:
>
> > A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> > threads.
> >
> >
> > BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> > Season Seven, Episode 1: "Lessons"
> > (or "THE BEST BREASTS OF ALL THE MOTHERS")
> > Writer: Joss Whedon
> > Director: David Solomon
>
> Couple of other points.
>
> Xander looking unconscionably spiffy. From waster to site foreman with
> nice car in two years.
And the cut from Giles saying "In the end, we all are who we are, no
matter how much we may appear to have changed," to spiffy Xander.
chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Seven, Episode 1: "Lessons"
> (or "THE BEST BREASTS OF ALL THE MOTHERS")
> Writer: Joss Whedon
> Director: David Solomon
.
> Since I commented on it last season, I suppose I should follow up by
> saying that it's good to have Joss as a credited writer again.
And it's good to have new AOQ reviews again.
> I have no idea why we're in Istanbul. The show doesn't go back
> there either, making it even easier to make the requisite "Istanbul
> (Not Constantinople)" jokes.
In the commentary, Joss and David reminisce about the Istanbul shoot: how
long the flight was, the heat, the food, etc. It's a shame they had to
cut all that great footage for time, so we barely see enough of Istanbul
to fill a studio backlot. Oh well. BTW, the girl's murder seemed
particularly brutal and a little rape-like, probably because of the way
they pinned her down before stabbing her. I wonder who she was.
In the graveyard scene, a major part of Buffy's lesson about power seems
to be, know how much power you really have, i.e., know your limitations.
Good advice for everyone, even Slayers.
> in stasis, not human but not much of a demon. Willow and Giles are
> entirely isolated from the others, and it's interesting to see the
> latter seemingly belatedly taking a few steps towards taking
> responsibility for her. Of course, this is also convenient for the
> writers, since they don't have to write anything about how things
> were between her and the Scoobies in the immediate aftermath of
> "Grave."
If there was any interaction between them at all. Willow says "When you
brought me here, I thought it was to kill me or to lock me in some
mystical dungeon for all eternity or ... with the torture. Instead you go
all Dumbledore on me." It's not definite, but to me that sounds like
Giles or the Coven teleported Willow to England very shortly after the end
of Grave. Willow never had a chance to interact with the others (beyond
sobbing in Xander's arms for a few minutes).
> That's the cue for Spike to pop up, letting us know what he'd be
> like without the steady infusion of peroxide and with a soul. I was
> saying that he was talking a little like Drusilla, and then of course
> she appeared at the end. His scene with Buffy doesn't seem to play
> quite right, other than the classic delivery on "I'll get back to
> you." I think she seems too... pleasant. I could imagine anger,
> discomfort, intense curiousity, or deepening confusion, but the casual
> almost-friendliness doesn't ring right.
I agree. The initial scene can be explained away by confusion over
whether he was real or a manifest spirit, and simple surprise. But later,
when she looks almost tenderly at his wounded chest, it simply feels
wrong. Even keeping in mind that Spike is acting quite unthreatening and
pathetic, it feels wrong. Heck, even if you adopted the perspective that
deep down inside Buffy really loves (or wuvs) Spike, it still rings a
little false. This is actually my biggest problem with the episode, but
fortunately it only lasts a minute.
> Mrs. Quality thinks that
> Marsters doesn't seem to be very good at doing "insane;" jury's
> still out on that for me.
I thought it was a bit over the top on first viewing, but I blamed the
writing more than the acting. On subsequent viewings it didn't seem so
bad.
> But it's interesting to see Little Sister in the same world that
> Buffy lived in at the beginning of the series but is now emotionally
> much older and far away. The kids even form their own makeshift
> Scoobie Gang of those that supposedly no one will miss
Those two really came in for a lot of fan hate when Lessons aired, but I
didn't think they were *that* bad. I thought Kit in particular was all
right; but that might possibly be because I also thought she was cute.
> I love the idea of in some way "going back" to the beginning. A
> beginning that transcends both science and religion, apparently. The
> end of a big epic story should reflect how it started in some way. And
> one of my fanboy weaknesses is that I get filled with squeeing joy at
> stuff like the Big Bad Parade at the end, keeping everyone mostly in
> character but Spike-obsessed at the same time (he never met Wilkins,
> did he? Not sure about the Master). I don't even care what it means
> yet, I just eat that kind of stuff up.
Me too. (It would have been even better if Angelus was in there, but
you can't have everything.) If Spike never met Mayor Wilkins, that would
seem to indicate that whatever-it-is is not just pulling images out of
Spike's memory.
> This Is Really Stupid But I Laughed Anyway moment(s):
"Ah, being popular isn't so great -- or so I've read in books."
"If at first you don't succeed ... cheat."
A tells B to duck, B is confused, C hits B over the head. Never gets old.
Speaking of old, no mention of "You're the coolest mom ever"? I love
Buffy's reaction (feeling for "mom hair") and Dawn's (okay, let's move
quickly along before someone explodes or bursts into tears).
A few other notes:
-Xander is continuing his climb up the ladder. How high up do you have to
be before you're wearing a suit to client meetings? I think he already
passed foreman last year. Project manager? Partner in the company,
perhaps?
-The Bag Fu made for a slightly different fight scene.
-Scenes where the camera circles around two people talking are difficult
when one of those people is like fourteen inches taller than the other.
The up-and-down motion of the camera was just noticeable enough to be
distracting.
> AOQ rating: Good
Agreed. It's a mostly lightweight episode, but I like it.
--Chris
______________________________________________________________________
chrisg [at] gwu.edu On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog.
chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu
>> Actually, for some reason Wood's last line in this episode really made
>> me warm to him despite my doubts: "Well, that's great. Look at that.
>> It's not even noon, and I've already bullied my first family member
>> into helping out. I'm going to be the best principal ever!"
>
> Or, he's going to be eaten. Maybe he'll be a great principal, who gets
> eaten.
Maybe "best" will turn out to mean "tastiest." They did have Dawn refer
to the famous cookbook _To Serve Man_ earlier in the episode.
(Harmony) Watcher
"Don Sample" <dsa...@synapse.net> wrote in message
news:dsample-DBBC3C...@news.giganews.com...
> In article <edri0k$362$1...@emma.aioe.org>, "Apteryx" <apt...@xtra.co.nz>
> wrote:
>
> > "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:1157692942....@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > >A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> > > threads.
> > >
> > > back into BTVS after all these (well, three) years. The ghosts tie
> > > into the theme of the continuing relevance of the past, and are
> > > appropriately scary in their early sudden appearances. The device of
> > > having them represent themselves as products of Buffy's failure -
> > > you were supposed to be the Protector, but where were you when I was
> > > being killed back in S2?
> >
> > I think that's pretty weak myself. Clearly these aren't the only 3 who
died
> > at SH while Buffy was there. Maybe the only 3 mad enough to blame Buffy
for
> > it?
>
> I think they were deliberately messing with her head. Na rneyl fnyib va
> gur Svefg'f cflpubybtvpny pnzcnvta ntnvafg Ohssl.
>
qhr gb gur nagvpf bs gur Svefg Rivy (SR)? Creuncf gur SR bjarq nyy
uryyzbhguf va Ohsslirefr. Va gung pnfr, creuncf nyy uryyzbhgul nabznyvrf
(fhpu nf gur tubfgf va VBURSL, be ful vaivfvoyr tvey va na rneyl frnfba)
pbhyq or hygvzngryl nggevohgrq gb vg.
--
==Harmony Watcher==
rrh...@acme.com
If we take Sunnydale as functionally equivalent to Santa Barbara, then
yes, it can be sweater weather even in the summer. I went to college
there, living perhaps a quarter mile from the ocean. Mornings could be
damp and chilly. It would burn of pretty quickly, but if you were
outside at eight in the morning, even in June you would want more than
shorts and a tee shirt.
Richard R. Hershberger
One Bit Shy
news:1157692942....@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Seven, Episode 1: "Lessons"
> I have no idea why we're in Istanbul.
Double-O-Xander is about to go on a world hopping demon hunt.
> Before we get into the rest of the show, some characters exist in
> isolation. Anya (since when does Halfrek ever call her that?) is still
> in stasis, not human but not much of a demon.
Halfrek: Waitress downtown wished her husband was a frog? You made him
French.
I get a kick out of that. What do you think of Anya's new hair color?
There is one thing maybe a little notable in that scene.
Halfrek: D'Hoffryn. The lower beings. They're all feeling the heat.
Something's rising. Something older than the old ones, and everybody's tail
is twitching. This is a bad time to be a good guy.
What would it take for D'Hoffryn to feel the heat?
> Willow and Giles are
> entirely isolated from the others, and it's interesting to see the
> latter seemingly belatedly taking a few steps towards taking
> responsibility for her.
Giles on the horse in the English country side looked really nice. Makes me
appreciate more why he might want to go home. But, yes, belatedly taking
responsibility for Willow is interesting.
> Of course, this is also convenient for the
> writers, since they don't have to write anything about how things
> were between her and the Scoobies in the immediate aftermath of
> "Grave." It's a potentially good setup having her with the
> still-unseen Coven, learning about controlling her powers and
> apparently soaking her head in carrot juice. Dramatically speaking,
> we've seen Willow go through the denial thing, so having her somehow
> tied to the magic forever after her "not going back" stage is more
> interesting storytelling.
The big line, I think, is, "This isn't a hobby or an addiction. It's inside
you now, this magic. You're responsible for it." Connecting this to
Willow's not coming back remark in Villains is quite observant. It's also
an attempt to explicitly reject the addiction story, though Willow seems to
be in a mode of wanting to reject the magic - and wishing she could come
back. "I wanna be Willow."
> So Sunnydale High School can't be kept down, huh? It's a little
> early to get a read on Principal Wood, but he seems like he'll be
> important, provided he lives long enough (black guy + fantasy show, you
> know...). I wonder how much he knows relative to someone like Snyder,
> who had an idea of what he was involved in but never understood it.
> Guy definitely seems like he has a sense that this isn't a normal
> gig, and that's tied in with a hint of humor ("what, you think I
> got this job based on seniority?").
Well, as we're reminded, the last two principals got eaten... And his
office is right on top of the hellmouth. Doesn't portend well. Dawn
assumes he's evil - as any decent high school student should. Guess we'll
just have to find out.
> Him hiring Buffy at the end is a
> pleasant surprise, and I'm interested to see how high school fits
> back into BTVS after all these (well, three) years.
Yeah, but why on earth would he hire Buffy after reading her file?
> The ghosts tie
> into the theme of the continuing relevance of the past, and are
> appropriately scary in their early sudden appearances. The device of
> having them represent themselves as products of Buffy's failure -
> you were supposed to be the Protector, but where were you when I was
> being killed back in S2? - gives them the necessary grounding in our
> heroes' lives, and possibly in the thematic shape of Season Seven
> too.
Oh, we were told the theme point blank. "It's about power." The most
blatant declaration of theme in any season opener. The first and last line
of the episode. Assuming Joss is telling the truth anyway. Would he lie?
> That's the cue for Spike to pop up, letting us know what he'd be
> like without the steady infusion of peroxide and with a soul.
I had to laugh at the awful face Buffy made when he saw him. Pretty much my
reaction to what may be the worst hair of the series.
> I was
> saying that he was talking a little like Drusilla, and then of course
> she appeared at the end. His scene with Buffy doesn't seem to play
> quite right, other than the classic delivery on "I'll get back to
> you." I think she seems too... pleasant.
I think the idea is that first, Buffy has an immediate issue to tend to -
Dawn - and she normally subordinates other concerns to the immediate crisis.
Second, Spike is loco (he tried to cut out his heart) and this wouldn't seem
to be a fruitful time to push harder.
> I could imagine anger,
> discomfort, intense curiousity, or deepening confusion, but the casual
> almost-friendliness doesn't ring right. Mrs. Quality thinks that
> Marsters doesn't seem to be very good at doing "insane;" jury's
> still out on that for me.
I rather like the line, "Nobody comes in here. It's just the three of us."
I suspect the disconnect with his performance is that we're not used to
seeing him anything like this - so, for the moment anyway, it doesn't feel
like Spike.
> Dawn is most enjoyable to watch when her quirks are prominent, as seen
> when she guarantees that she won't see anyone invisible, or when she
> gets the others in her class to chuckle at the Whedon-speak. And
> she's slightly better at cover stories than the rest of the family.
> Again, she's not Buffy, despite a few flashes of leadership skill.
> But it's interesting to see Little Sister in the same world that
> Buffy lived in at the beginning of the series but is now emotionally
> much older and far away. The kids even form their own makeshift
> Scoobie Gang of those that supposedly no one will miss (note to ghosts:
> going after the Slayer's sister doesn't exactly fit the profile),
> but I don't think there's any suggestion that they'll be more
> than bit players.
Especially since they mostly cower. Willow and Xander seemed a little more
engaged when they got involved with Buffy.
> Okay, so what's the deal with the talisman? It seems like the show
> is missing a scene in which more information is provided than
> "there's always a talisman." Unless that was supposed to be the
> joke? Or maybe Buffy not revealing where she first heard about it is
> the main reason it's there.
Voluntarily revealing an encounter with one of her undead boyfriends would
be a first.
> And what's the deal with the sweaters? It's summer in California.
> When the hell does anyone need a sweater? Do they keep the A/C at full
> blast in every building in the state or something?
I don't know, but I swear I've seen Dawn's sweater design on a kitchen
counter top - long time ago. I seem to remember making peanut butter and
jelly sandwiches on that design.
> I love the idea of in some way "going back" to the beginning. A
> beginning that transcends both science and religion, apparently. The
> end of a big epic story should reflect how it started in some way. And
> one of my fanboy weaknesses is that I get filled with squeeing joy at
> stuff like the Big Bad Parade at the end, keeping everyone mostly in
> character but Spike-obsessed at the same time (he never met Wilkins,
> did he? Not sure about the Master). I don't even care what it means
> yet, I just eat that kind of stuff up. (Odds are 50/50 that this is
> what first got OBS thinking about whether Drusilla was the most
> important villain of S2.)
No. Afraid not. It was just a general thing about who the big bad was in
the different seasons. I also don't really think Drusilla was the most
important. But I think it's a useful question to ask because it gets you
thinking about the way she influenced people and events - gives more
definition to her character.
Honestly, I didn't react well to this scene when I first saw it - until the
final line from Buffy(?) anyway. Seemed kinda hokey to me. It doesn't
bother me so much now because the individual performances are pretty good.
I especially liked the Mayor with his line about souls being slipperier than
a greased weasel. But the idea of a parade of old big bads still seems a
tad silly to me. It's like we're getting all nostalgic about the end of the
series and the season's barely begun.
I do like how it finishes with Buffy, though. (Who did not appear through a
morph.) Why is she associated with a string of big bads? Why is something
like this being played out to Spike? How does that fit with the return of
his soul? It's the only part of the episode that really piqued my curiosity
looking ahead.
> This Is Really Stupid But I Laughed Anyway moment(s):
> - "Is there anything you don't know everything about?"
> "Synchronized swimming. Complete mystery to me"
> - "How exactly do you 'make' cereal?" "You put the box near
> the milk. I saw it on the Food Channel"
> - The dog tragedy
Obvious foreshadowing. You may not want to watch the great dog massacre
episode if such things upset you.
> - Dawn's excitement over the cell reception
> - "Again, wrong sister. I'm the one that dates dead guys. And, no
> offense, but they were hotties. I mean, I'm sure you had a great
> personality, but..."
The only date we've seen Dawn on was with a dead guy, so...
I got a kick out of "Mom hair" and just generally having Buffy confused as
Dawn's mom. I know that annoyed Buffy, but how do you suppose SMG felt
about those lines?
And I think the most shocking thing in the episode was seeing Xander going
to work in his suit.
> So...
>
> One-sentence summary: A great way to start a final season.
>
> AOQ rating: Good
I enjoy this episode and would rate it Good too for the pleasure of it. But
I have to say this strikes me as the least thought provoking season opener
in the series. If it weren't for Spike and the Mighty Morphin' Big Bads my
curiosity meter would be flat-lined.
OBS
lili...@gmail.com
One Bit Shy wrote:
>
> > That's the cue for Spike to pop up, letting us know what he'd be
> > like without the steady infusion of peroxide and with a soul.
>
> I had to laugh at the awful face Buffy made when he saw him. Pretty much my
> reaction to what may be the worst hair of the series.
>
OK, now that one I couldn't leave standing.
Worst hair of the series?
He's gorgeous with that hair, that's probably the best hair he's had in
all his time on Buffy. Come on? How could anyone not love that hair?
Honestly, that scene with Buffy, Spike all vulnerable and soft, with
that hair, those clothes, that's the best JM has ever looked. It's
stunning.
Drop dead gorgeous.
Lore
Don Sample
"One Bit Shy" <O...@nomail.sorry> wrote:
> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1157692942....@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> > BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> > Season Seven, Episode 1: "Lessons"
>
> > I could imagine anger,
> > discomfort, intense curiousity, or deepening confusion, but the casual
> > almost-friendliness doesn't ring right. Mrs. Quality thinks that
> > Marsters doesn't seem to be very good at doing "insane;" jury's
> > still out on that for me.
>
> I rather like the line, "Nobody comes in here. It's just the three of us."
> I suspect the disconnect with his performance is that we're not used to
> seeing him anything like this - so, for the moment anyway, it doesn't feel
> like Spike.
Plus it tells us that a lot of Spike's weird behaviour is because he's
talking to something else that he can see and hear, but we and Buffy
can't.
One Bit Shy
news:1157749537.7...@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
I have it on good authority that Buffy agrees with me. ;-)
OBS
lili...@gmail.com
Well... Buffy's not known for her good taste, just ask Cordelia...
Lore
chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu
>> I rather like the line, "Nobody comes in here. It's just the three of us."
>> I suspect the disconnect with his performance is that we're not used to
>> seeing him anything like this - so, for the moment anyway, it doesn't feel
>> like Spike.
>
> Plus it tells us that a lot of Spike's weird behaviour is because he's
> talking to something else that he can see and hear, but we and Buffy
> can't.
Well, it tells us that if we're quick-thinking enough. When I first saw
it, I thought "the three of us" meant Buffy, Spike, and Spike's soul. It
was only after watching the last scene that another interpretation
occurred to me.
Malsperanza
Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
>
> Season Seven, Episode 1: "Lessons"
snippety snip
> So Sunnydale High School can't be kept down, huh? It's a little
> early to get a read on Principal Wood, but he seems like he'll be
> important, provided he lives long enough (black guy + fantasy show, you
> know...).
Yep, one almost wishes he were actually wearing a redshirt. OTOH,
Whedon surely knows what happens to any black character introduced late
in the story... I kind of got the feeling that the casting of a black
actor was meant to tease viewers for exactly this reason.
And does no one have anything to say about the Robin Hood reference in
his name?
I did like the little earring, though. Definitely a California school
principal.
> got this job based on seniority?"). Him hiring Buffy at the end is a
> pleasant surprise, and I'm interested to see how high school fits
> back into BTVS after all these (well, three) years.
I was relieved to see the last of the Doublemeat Palace, not because it
wasn't funny, but because Buffy could not possibly pay for that house
and even modestly middle-class lifestyle on fast-food wages, and the
joke was already wearing thin.
But it does seem odd to hire a counselor who is at most 22 years old.
For that matter, is it plausible that Xander has gone from gofer to
journeyman to foreman in 3 years? Don't construction workers have
unions?
> That's the cue for Spike to pop up, letting us know what he'd be
> like without the steady infusion of peroxide and with a soul. I was
> saying that he was talking a little like Drusilla, and then of course
> she appeared at the end. His scene with Buffy doesn't seem to play
> quite right, other than the classic delivery on "I'll get back to
> you." I think she seems too... pleasant. I could imagine anger,
> discomfort, intense curiousity, or deepening confusion, but the casual
> almost-friendliness doesn't ring right. Mrs. Quality thinks that
> Marsters doesn't seem to be very good at doing "insane;" jury's
> still out on that for me.
I agree with Mrs. Quality, at least in that first scene. Mad scenes are
hard hard hard, and not too many actors can really do them well. But at
least Marsters didn't give us Jack Nicholson-style grimacing and
twitching. Plus, he was hampered by having to perform with a small dead
spaniel on his head.
> And what's the deal with the sweaters? It's summer in California.
> When the hell does anyone need a sweater? Do they keep the A/C at full
> blast in every building in the state or something?
What I'm sayin. Not to mention wooly coats. But it's true that when the
fog rolls in, central CA can be damn chilly. I know the location is
meant to be somewhere just north of LA, like Santa Barbara or Ojai, but
just squint and pretend it's Eureka.
I was especially glad to see the Mayor again, and was pleased that he
was given the line about a soul not being any protection against
behaving wickedly. That is a good message to remind us of, starting s7.
That and the not-so-subtle message that "it's about power."
Which is interesting, considering that as s7 opens, all our main
characters are either disempowered or at least *feeling* disempowered.
Willow and Giles are sidelined; Xander is earning a living, lonely and
without his mainstay; Anya is at loose ends; Spike is batshit crazy;
Angel is long gone; Dawn is making a run at being normal (and is still
a kid of 15 or 16, and clearly not Slayer material). And Buffy? Seems
to be almost out of a job, and none too sorry about it either. There's
a kind of cheery sunny quality to this rather lightweight season
opener--it's not a comic-relief episode, nor a farce, but it's long on
the funny lines and short on doomsaying (Spike's ravings apart).
Even the Parade of Bads, which is suitably creepy and ominous, has a
kind of comedic, theatrical quality, heightened by the possibility that
it's All in Spike's Head.
~Mal
One Bit Shy
My main initial reaction to the line was it just indicating that Spike's
crazy - that's a pretty stereotypical thing for a madman to say. I assumed
that the third person was some kind of invention of Spike's mind - my first
guess being a split of himself because of the soul. The later parade of big
bads adds to the possibilities, but doesn't clarify much. If we could have
seen what, if anything, he was talking to in the Buffy scene, I think the
words, the way he says them, and the way he acts would still look batshit
nuts.
OBS
Don Sample
"Malsperanza" <malsp...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
> > A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> > threads.
> >
> >
> > BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> > Season Seven, Episode 1: "Lessons"
>
> snippety snip
>
> > So Sunnydale High School can't be kept down, huh? It's a little
> > early to get a read on Principal Wood, but he seems like he'll be
> > important, provided he lives long enough (black guy + fantasy show, you
> > know...).
>
> Yep, one almost wishes he were actually wearing a redshirt. OTOH,
> Whedon surely knows what happens to any black character introduced late
> in the story... I kind of got the feeling that the casting of a black
> actor was meant to tease viewers for exactly this reason.
>
> And does no one have anything to say about the Robin Hood reference in
> his name?
He was named "Robin" because Joss wanted a name that could belong to a
male or a female. The script for "Lessons" gives no hint what Wood's
gender will be, because Joss didn't make up his mind until the part was
cast. He had both male and female actors audition for it.
Malsperanza
Don Sample wrote:
> > And does no one have anything to say about the Robin Hood reference in
> > his name?
>
> He was named "Robin" because Joss wanted a name that could belong to a
> male or a female. The script for "Lessons" gives no hint what Wood's
> gender will be, because Joss didn't make up his mind until the part was
> cast. He had both male and female actors audition for it.
Yes, but why the echo of Robin Hood? What's that supposed to signal,
if anything? I mean Whedon could have named the character Robin Wombat
or Robin Jones.
~Mal
MBangel10 (Melissa)
> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
> threads.
>
>
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Seven, Episode 1: "Lessons"
> Writer: Joss Whedon
> Director: David Solomon
>
I've arrived a bit late to the party but I remember my first main
thoughts after 'Lessons' ended and thought I'd share.
1. What's up with the chick in the beginning? What was that all about?
2. Why the hell was crazy Spike in the basement of the brand new school?
(I didn't question the insanity much because of the soul)
3. How did Buffy get hired to work as a counselor? I mean, seriously.
4. Is the Principal good or EVIL?
5. Who actually used the talisman?
6. Spike makes crazy kind of hot.
and last but not least,
7. That was a pretty fucking cool ending. Was it really happening or was
it just all inside Spike's mind?
So, there ya go...
>
>
> So...
>
> One-sentence summary: A great way to start a final season.
>
> AOQ rating: Good
I've got to agree, it definitely peaked my interest.
>
> [Season Seven so far:
> 1) "Lessons" - Good]
>
John Briggs
If I had a Federal grant I could probably work up a William Tell joke :-)
--
John Briggs
vague disclaimer
"One Bit Shy" <O...@nomail.sorry> wrote:
> But, yes, belatedly taking
> responsibility for Willow is interesting.
Willow, being neither a Slayer nor an orphan, is not Giles's
responsibility in any legal or moral sense.
That he takes responsibility gladly and out of his love for her doesn't
really deserve cheapening with the 'belatedly' crack.
lili...@gmail.com
Well I don't know, but seeing as how it's his fault she got involved
with magic, it was his responsibility to make sure she was being
careful with it. At the very least to keep her from becoming a threat.
He didn't do so until it was far far too late.
Lore
One Bit Shy
news:1157754305....@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> For that matter, is it plausible that Xander has gone from gofer to
> journeyman to foreman in 3 years? Don't construction workers have
> unions?
When he became a supervisor, he became out of the union. What's more
surprising is that his job wasn't given to a family member or old army
buddy.
> Plus, he was hampered by having to perform with a small dead
> spaniel on his head.
LOL! Good to know somebody else was taken aback by that hair.
OBS
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
> Something's rising. Something older than the old ones, and everybody's tail
> is twitching. This is a bad time to be a good guy.
i had forgotten that in parallel on angel
they also had evil portents underfoot
meow arf meow - they are performing horrible experiments in space
major grubert is watching you - beware the bakalite
there can only be one or two - the airtight garage has you neo
Stephen Tempest
>Ubj pna bar gryy jurgure vg jnf whfg gur cynpr orvat "uryyzbhgul" be vg jnf
>qhr gb gur nagvpf bs gur Svefg Rivy (SR)?
Grpuavpnyyl, vg fubhyq or GS. Va guvf frnfba vg'f nyzbfg nyjnlf pnyyrq
Gur Svefg (pncvgny 'G', pncvgny 'S') va gur fubbgvat fpevcgf.
Phevbhfyl rabhtu, gur bayl crbcyr gb hfr gur cuenfr 'Svefg Rivy'
qhevat frnfba 7 ner Dhragva Geniref naq Orywbkn'f Rlr - nygubhtu Gur
Svefg vgfrys qbrf bapr pnyy vgfrys "gur ovttrfg, onqqrfg, svefg rivy
va gur jbeyq ". Abgr ynpx bs pncvgny yrggref...
Stephen
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
Don Sample <dsa...@synapse.net> wrote:
> > I agree with Mrs Q that it is not well done and in fact gets irritating - I
> > was inclined to blame the writing.
>
> Spike's scenes make more sense once you find out what's really going on
> with him.
i suspect having a soul is a bit confounding
angel took about a hundred years to start joining humanity again
also remember we know spike has a soul
but no one else knows that or where spike has been
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
Opus the Penguin <opusthepen...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Arbitrar Of Quality (tsm...@wildmail.com) wrote:
>
> > I have no idea why we're in Istanbul. The show doesn't go back
> > there either, making it even easier to make the requisite "Istanbul
> > (Not Constantinople)" jokes.
>
> I hate byzantine jokes like those.
i find them a turkish delight
One Bit Shy
news:l64o-1rj5-45375...@europe.isp.giganews.com...
> In article <12g3m26...@news.supernews.com>,
> "One Bit Shy" <O...@nomail.sorry> wrote:
>
>> But, yes, belatedly taking
>> responsibility for Willow is interesting.
>
> Willow, being neither a Slayer nor an orphan, is not Giles's
> responsibility in any legal or moral sense.
>
> That he takes responsibility gladly and out of his love for her doesn't
> really deserve cheapening with the 'belatedly' crack.
Well, gee, you could have directed that at AOQ, who introduced the phrase
that I simply referenced.
Be that as it may, I don't see it as a "crack". Whatever his legal or moral
responsibilities may be, he loved her before, she needed it before, he was
the only one around Willow in a position to train her responsibly, and it's
long been observed by many that for whatever reason he didn't. So it's
interesting that he chooses to now. I don't know what it say about him now
or then. I don't know that it says anything clearly. It's just -
interesting.
OBS
Don Sample
"One Bit Shy" <O...@nomail.sorry> wrote:
> "Malsperanza" <malsp...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1157754305....@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> > For that matter, is it plausible that Xander has gone from gofer to
> > journeyman to foreman in 3 years? Don't construction workers have
> > unions?
>
> When he became a supervisor, he became out of the union. What's more
> surprising is that his job wasn't given to a family member or old army
> buddy.
This is Sunnydale. Lot's of turnover, both from people who get eaten by
something, and the ones who smarten up and move out out town. That
makes it possible to get rapid promotions.
William George Ferguson
>
>Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
>> A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
>> threads.
>>
>>
>> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
>> Season Seven, Episode 1: "Lessons"
>
>snippety snip
>
>
>> got this job based on seniority?"). Him hiring Buffy at the end is a
>> pleasant surprise, and I'm interested to see how high school fits
>> back into BTVS after all these (well, three) years.
>
>I was relieved to see the last of the Doublemeat Palace, not because it
>wasn't funny, but because Buffy could not possibly pay for that house
>and even modestly middle-class lifestyle on fast-food wages, and the
>joke was already wearing thin.
>
>But it does seem odd to hire a counselor who is at most 22 years old.
>For that matter, is it plausible that Xander has gone from gofer to
>journeyman to foreman in 3 years? Don't construction workers have
>unions?
Yes, but foreman wouldn't be a union designated job, it's middle
management. Also, I imagine the turnover in the construction industry is
rather high in Sunnydale, while the demand for construction is also rather
high (due to periodic hellmouth openings).
As for Buffy, she was hired as a peer counselor, not as a Guidance
Counselor (which would require at a minimum a Master's degree in
Counseling, and state certification). A peer counselor (in this context)
is another student or a young adult who speaks to you on your level. Peer
counseling is used in a variety of other settings (a handicapped individual
helping newly handicapped individuals to learn to cope, as a common
example).
And this is the same school system which okayed Willow teaching the
remainder of the semester of Jenny's computer class, while she was still a
high school junior.
--
"Oh Buffy, you really do need to have
every square inch of your ass kicked."
- Willow Rosenberg
One Bit Shy
> In article <12g3tq7...@news.supernews.com>,
> "One Bit Shy" <O...@nomail.sorry> wrote:
>
>> "Malsperanza" <malsp...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:1157754305....@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> > For that matter, is it plausible that Xander has gone from gofer to
>> > journeyman to foreman in 3 years? Don't construction workers have
>> > unions?
>>
>> When he became a supervisor, he became out of the union. What's more
>> surprising is that his job wasn't given to a family member or old army
>> buddy.
>
> This is Sunnydale. Lot's of turnover, both from people who get eaten by
> something, and the ones who smarten up and move out out town. That
> makes it possible to get rapid promotions.
Good point. And nice to know that Sunnydale is a land of opportunity.
OBS
MBangel10 (Melissa)
One Bit Shy
news:P8SdnTpCsooCmZ_Y...@comcast.com...
Or you like to eat people.
peachy ashie passion
>>BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
>>Season Seven, Episode 1: "Lessons"
>>(or "THE BEST BREASTS OF ALL THE MOTHERS")
>>Writer: Joss Whedon
>>Director: David Solomon
>
>
> Hurrah! Review! I was getting very tired of S6 there... (or of the same
> old arguments that have been going on since it first aired and I wasn't
> even around fandom back then.)
>
>
>>The show doesn't forget that, at
>>the same time as it doesn't forget trying to let Buffy get a little
>>less overprotective.
>
>
> Well it goes to show that Buffy really did follow up on that teary
> speech in Grave - and that Dawn is (thankfully) blossoming and happy as
> a result.
>
>
>>Before we get into the rest of the show, some characters exist in
>>isolation.
>
>
> "Understand we'll go hand in hand but we'll walk alone in fear..."
>
> I kinda like the fact that they're all physically isolated from each
> other. As sharp reminder of what happened last year - and how they were
> all together (except Buffy) in Bargaining. Can they be brought back
> toghether? Or are some of them lost forever?
>
> Anya (since when does Halfrek ever call her that?)
>
> Since she started being pathetic?
>
>
>>Willow and Giles are
>>entirely isolated from the others, and it's interesting to see the
>>latter seemingly belatedly taking a few steps towards taking
>>responsibility for her. Of course, this is also convenient for the
>>writers, since they don't have to write anything about how things
>>were between her and the Scoobies in the immediate aftermath of
>>"Grave." It's a potentially good setup having her with the
>>still-unseen Coven, learning about controlling her powers and
>>apparently soaking her head in carrot juice. Dramatically speaking,
>>we've seen Willow go through the denial thing, so having her somehow
>>tied to the magic forever after her "not going back" stage is more
>>interesting storytelling.
>
>
> Yup. He also sweeps the 'addiction' thing away just like that.
>
>
>>So Sunnydale High School can't be kept down, huh? It's a little
>>early to get a read on Principal Wood, but he seems like he'll be
>>important, provided he lives long enough (black guy + fantasy show, you
>>know...).
>
>
> Hehehehehe. He's a veeeeeery charming guy.
Que me and squeeing fangirl noises.
I fell in love with that principal guy the first time he walked on
screen.
ooooooooooooooh.
peachy ashie passion
>
> Actually, for some reason Wood's last line in this episode really made
> me warm to him despite my doubts: "Well, that's great. Look at that.
> It's not even noon, and I've already bullied my first family member
> into helping out. I'm going to be the best principal ever!"
>
*swoon*
sorry. Can't restrain myself.
BTR1701
"One Bit Shy" <O...@nomail.sorry> wrote:
> Giles on the horse in the English country side looked really nice. Makes me
> appreciate more why he might want to go home. But, yes, belatedly taking
> responsibility for Willow is interesting.
Not as interesting as the fact that the only consequence of Willow's
commission of 1st degree murder, attempted 1st degree murder and
attempted genocide is... a vacation at a bucolic British retreat.
> > Him hiring Buffy at the end is a
> > pleasant surprise, and I'm interested to see how high school fits
> > back into BTVS after all these (well, three) years.
>
> Yeah, but why on earth would he hire Buffy after reading her file?
Orpnhfr fur'f gur Fynlre... whfg yvxr uvf zbgure jnf.
> I do like how it finishes with Buffy, though. (Who did not appear through a
> morph.) Why is she associated with a string of big bads?
I remember wondering-- after having all the major villains of the series
paraded one after another-- if there was any significance to them ending
with Buffy. Was that some kind of foreshadowing that it would be Buffy
herself who ends up the biggest bad of them all?
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
> For that matter, is it plausible that Xander has gone from gofer to
> journeyman to foreman in 3 years? Don't construction workers have
> unions?
what with the hellmouth
they have a lot of turnover in that town
BTR1701
sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote:
> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> writes:
>
> >
> >And what's the deal with the sweaters? It's summer in California.
> >When the hell does anyone need a sweater? Do they keep the A/C at full
> >blast in every building in the state or something?
>
> The coastal areas can be quite cool in September. It's only supposed
> to get to 59F in San Francisco today, for example, and only 70 in
> sunnyVale.
Northern California has a *much* different climate than Southern
California where Sunnydale supposedly is.
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
"One Bit Shy" <O...@nomail.sorry> wrote:
> "MBangel10 (Melissa)" <mban...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:P8SdnTpCsooCmZ_Y...@comcast.com...
> > One Bit Shy wrote:
> >> "Don Sample" <dsa...@synapse.net> wrote in message
> >> news:dsample-71FD19...@news.giganews.com...
> >>> In article <12g3tq7...@news.supernews.com>,
> >>> "One Bit Shy" <O...@nomail.sorry> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> "Malsperanza" <malsp...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >>>> news:1157754305....@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> >>>>
> >>>>> For that matter, is it plausible that Xander has gone from gofer to
> >>>>> journeyman to foreman in 3 years? Don't construction workers have
> >>>>> unions?
> >>>> When he became a supervisor, he became out of the union. What's more
> >>>> surprising is that his job wasn't given to a family member or old army
> >>>> buddy.
> >>> This is Sunnydale. Lot's of turnover, both from people who get eaten by
> >>> something, and the ones who smarten up and move out out town. That
> >>> makes it possible to get rapid promotions.
> >>
> >> Good point. And nice to know that Sunnydale is a land of opportunity.
> >>
> >> OBS
> > If you live long enough that is. :p
>
> Or you like to eat people.
people who eat people
are the happpiest people of all
Arbitrar Of Quality
> When Wilkins laugh, I laugh. Even if
> he is evil.
>
> Of course, this is also the way the big bad evil here wants to make the
> new ensouled Spike think he is still the murderous vampire he was, he
> wants to make the ensouled Spike hold himself responsible for what the
> evil creature did. He wants the ensouled vampire believe in continuity
> where the continuity so has been broken. Smart.
Good point, thanks.
-AOQ
peachy ashie passion
Especially the opportunity to get eaten.
Arbitrar Of Quality
> >Dawn is most enjoyable to watch when her quirks are prominent, as seen
> >when she guarantees that she won't see anyone invisible, or when she
> >gets the others in her class to chuckle at the Whedon-speak.
>
> Dawn becomes one of my favourites on the show this season.
>
> To paraphrase Luke from 'The Harvest', "I thought you nothing more
> than a plot device, girl. Congratulations. You've just been
> upgraded... to a character."
Dawn kinda flipped in and out of "actual character" mode last season
(in S5 she *was* a plot device, of course). I thought "Wrecked" made
great use of her, but that was unfollowed-up upon... she got quite
hateable after the DT/OAFA/NA triology of whines.
> You're not the only one. Incidentally, were you guessing who Spike's
> interlocutor would turn into next, and if so how many did you get
> right?
When Warren showed up we were all "um, excuse me, show, he's dead!"
After he morphed into Glory, it took me a second to be sure it was her
(they made each character's most memorable traits prominent, didn't
they?), then I wndered "are they going through all the villains,
backward?" After Adam, I successfully predicted Wilkins next. Mrs. Q.
and I were hoping for Evil Angel to represent S2, but given that it's
Spike, Drusilla's actually even more appropriate. Then we pretty mucg
expected things to go to the Master, although we held on to the desire
to see Angel or Faith. Didn't know it would end with Buffy.
> I liked how both the first and the last line of the episode was the
> same, and delivered by Buffy (or possibly "Buffy") in both cases:
> 'It's about power.'
>
> As a reminder, Willow said almost the same thing last season at the
> height of her rampage: "Buffy, I gotta tell you - I get it now. The
> Slayer thing really isn't about the violence. It's about the power."
>
> It's just possible that we're seeing a Theme being laid out for us
> here. ;)
Well, despite being full of perfect insight and having of course
totally absorbed all that on first watching, it's very nice to have an
NG full of people to lay it out for one.
> >- Dawn's excitement over the cell reception
>
> A classic "hanging a lantern on things". I guarantee that if they
> hadn't included that line, there'd be a 300-post argument about how
> you can't make a mobile phone call from an underground cellar, and
> this is proof of Bad Writing and that the show had Jumped The Shark,
> and it was probably all Marti Noxon's fault.
Heh. Somehow I'm guessing that those people found plenty to complain
about. Hope it wasn't too labor-intensive for them.
-AOQ
Arbitrar Of Quality
> With the reworked opening credits, this marks the second season in a row
> in which the "power shot" of Buffy at the end, isn't really Buffy. In
> season 6's credits it was the Buffybot. And now for this season it's
> whatever is tormenting Spike down there in the school basement.
If you're one of the few people who find stuff like that interesting,
I'm one of the others.
-AOQ
Arbitrar Of Quality
> Honestly, I didn't react well to this scene when I first saw it - until the
> final line from Buffy(?) anyway. Seemed kinda hokey to me. It doesn't
> bother me so much now because the individual performances are pretty good.
> I especially liked the Mayor with his line about souls being slipperier than
> a greased weasel. But the idea of a parade of old big bads still seems a
> tad silly to me. It's like we're getting all nostalgic about the end of the
> series and the season's barely begun.
It works for me, given that each season of BTVS is to some degree its
own story with its own themes, etc. And that always starts in the
season premiere. Everyone knew going in that this would be the last
year, so I don't see anything wrong with a little nostalgia and a
little connectedness.
-AOQ
Arbitrar Of Quality
Malsperanza wrote:
> Don Sample wrote:
>
> > > And does no one have anything to say about the Robin Hood reference in
> > > his name?
> >
> > He was named "Robin" because Joss wanted a name that could belong to a
> > male or a female. The script for "Lessons" gives no hint what Wood's
> > gender will be, because Joss didn't make up his mind until the part was
> > cast. He had both male and female actors audition for it.
>
>
> Yes, but why the echo of Robin Hood? What's that supposed to signal,
> if anything? I mean Whedon could have named the character Robin Wombat
> or Robin Jones.
Didn't even notice that. And in T.H. White's inexplicably popular and
thoroughly shit-tastic... er, in the book _The Once And Future King_
which I am in no way permanently scarred by having had to read for
school, Robin Hood makes a brief appearance and the reader is told that
his "real" name is Robin Wood.
-AOQ
Arbitrar Of Quality
chr...@removethistoreply.gwu.edu wrote:
> Speaking of old, no mention of "You're the coolest mom ever"? I love
> Buffy's reaction (feeling for "mom hair") and Dawn's (okay, let's move
> quickly along before someone explodes or bursts into tears).
Well, there's an oblique reference to it (mixed with a pop-culture
reference) in my alternate title. But otherwise, it was a nice little
gag, but not one that stands out tremendously. There you go, it's
mentioned.
-AOQ
George W Harris
<exquisi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
:>>So Sunnydale High School can't be kept down, huh? It's a little
:>>early to get a read on Principal Wood, but he seems like he'll be
:>>important, provided he lives long enough (black guy + fantasy show, you
:>>know...).
:>
:>
:> Hehehehehe. He's a veeeeeery charming guy.
:
:
: Que me and squeeing fangirl noises.
:
: I fell in love with that principal guy the first time he walked on
:screen.
:
: ooooooooooooooh.
The first thing that occurred to me was that he
looked like a young version of the doctor in "Normal
Again".
All sorts of thoughts that raised.
--
"Intelligence is too complex to capture in a single number." -Alfred Binet
George W. Harris For actual email address, replace each 'u' with an 'i'
Jeff Jacoby
No, the climate isn't *much* different, it's only a
little different. There's a greater difference west
to east (from the coast, over the hills, and into the
valley) than there is north to south along the coast.
Jeff
BTR1701
Jeff Jacoby <jja...@not.real.com> wrote:
You regularly get temperatures in the 40's in San Francisco in summer.
That doesn't happen in L.A.
BTR1701
peachy ashie passion <exquisi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
He's President of the United States now, you know.
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
> > hadn't included that line, there'd be a 300-post argument about how
> > you can't make a mobile phone call from an underground cellar, and
> > this is proof of Bad Writing and that the show had Jumped The Shark,
> > and it was probably all Marti Noxon's fault.
>
> Heh. Somehow I'm guessing that those people found plenty to complain
> about. Hope it wasn't too labor-intensive for them.
whats even stranger is the school had a basement
basements arent wildly popular along the coast
Rowan Hawthorn
> Stephen Tempest wrote:
>> A classic "hanging a lantern on things". I guarantee that if they
>> hadn't included that line, there'd be a 300-post argument about how
>> you can't make a mobile phone call from an underground cellar, and
>> this is proof of Bad Writing and that the show had Jumped The Shark,
>> and it was probably all Marti Noxon's fault.
>
> Heh. Somehow I'm guessing that those people found plenty to complain
> about. Hope it wasn't too labor-intensive for them.
Hell, no, they didn't even break a sweat, but it definitely exhausted
some of us who had to weed through those posts...
--
Rowan Hawthorn
"Occasionally, I'm callous and strange." - Willow Rosenberg, "Buffy the
Vampire Slayer"
Jeff Jacoby
Take two towns near either end of the CA
middle coast, Half-Moon Bay and Ventura...
monthly avg lows monthly avg. highs
HMB 43 - 53 58 - 67
Ventura 45 - 60 65 - 74.
A difference of less than ten degrees all around
for two towns 350 miles apart. Now take a city
a few hours inland, less than 100 miles from
HMB: Stockton (Faith's new abode) ...
35 - 55 55 - 93
I stand by my statement.
Jeff
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
Jeff Jacoby <jja...@not.real.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 08 Sep 2006 22:01:52 -0400, BTR1701 <btr...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> > In article <9dudnfH7SpwDgZ_Y...@comcast.com>,
> > Jeff Jacoby <jja...@not.real.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Fri, 08 Sep 2006 20:14:19 -0400, BTR1701 <btr...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> >> > In article <%_hMg.11443$q63...@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>,
> >> > sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@wildmail.com> writes:
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >And what's the deal with the sweaters? It's summer in California.
> >> >> >When the hell does anyone need a sweater? Do they keep the A/C at full
> >> >> >blast in every building in the state or something?
> >> >>
> >> >> The coastal areas can be quite cool in September. It's only supposed
> >> >> to get to 59F in San Francisco today, for example, and only 70 in
> >> >> sunnyVale.
> >> >
> >> > Northern California has a *much* different climate than Southern
> >> > California where Sunnydale supposedly is.
> >>
> >> No, the climate isn't *much* different, it's only a
> >> little different. There's a greater difference west
> >> to east (from the coast, over the hills, and into the
> >> valley) than there is north to south along the coast.
> >
> > You regularly get temperatures in the 40's in San Francisco in summer.
> > That doesn't happen in L.A.
>
> Take two towns near either end of the CA
> middle coast, Half-Moon Bay and Ventura...
los angeles is in a bight with the channel islands
which might mess up the ice water current that runs down the coast
also its very large basin
parts of it are rather distant from the ocean
EGK
<rowan_h...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
>> Stephen Tempest wrote:
>>> A classic "hanging a lantern on things". I guarantee that if they
>>> hadn't included that line, there'd be a 300-post argument about how
>>> you can't make a mobile phone call from an underground cellar, and
>>> this is proof of Bad Writing and that the show had Jumped The Shark,
>>> and it was probably all Marti Noxon's fault.
>>
>> Heh. Somehow I'm guessing that those people found plenty to complain
>> about. Hope it wasn't too labor-intensive for them.
>
>Hell, no, they didn't even break a sweat, but it definitely exhausted
>some of us who had to weed through those posts...
NIce to see AQQ and the gang are as condescending as usual. Hypocritical
much? I don't like seasons 6 or 7 and decided to quit posting about it
following Brooklyn Ken's lead after the season 5 reviews.. Nice to see you
guys miss the naysayers so much you still have to talk about them. -:)
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"There would be a lot more civility in this world if people
didn't take that as an invitation to walk all over you"
(Calvin and Hobbes)
peachy ashie passion
I appear to have missed that.
Is he still a smart ass with a quirky sense of humor?
Mel
Elisi wrote:
>
>
>>So Sunnydale High School can't be kept down, huh? It's a little
>>early to get a read on Principal Wood, but he seems like he'll be
>>important, provided he lives long enough (black guy + fantasy show, you
>>know...).
>
>
> Hehehehehe. He's a veeeeeery charming guy.
I see him here, I think "Wayne Palmer." I see him on 24, I think
"Principal Wood." Agreed that he's very charming.
>
>
>
>>And what's the deal with the sweaters? It's summer in California.
>>When the hell does anyone need a sweater? Do they keep the A/C at full
>>blast in every building in the state or something?
>
>
> No idea. Wacthed The Zeppo the other day and Buffy is wearing this huge
> furry coat thing in the middle of the day - in sunshine. Blame the
> costume people!
They mention this on the commentary. They say Michelle wanted to wear
the sweater, and they decided to go with it since they liked the look.
Then they got to filming and it was like 110 degrees outside. Oops!
Mel
Mel
jil...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> Ah, I'm reminded. They aren't ghosts. Spike says "Manifest spirits
> controlled by a talisman, raised to seek vengeance. A 4-year-old could
> figure it."
The big question being, how does he know this????
>
> Actually, for some reason Wood's last line in this episode really made
> me warm to him despite my doubts: "Well, that's great. Look at that.
> It's not even noon, and I've already bullied my first family member
> into helping out. I'm going to be the best principal ever!"
>
Well, he's already an improvement over Snyder. Let's just hope he
doesn't get eaten.
Mel
Rowan Hawthorn
> On Fri, 08 Sep 2006 23:37:46 -0400, Rowan Hawthorn
> <rowan_h...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
>>> Stephen Tempest wrote:
>>>> A classic "hanging a lantern on things". I guarantee that if they
>>>> hadn't included that line, there'd be a 300-post argument about how
>>>> you can't make a mobile phone call from an underground cellar, and
>>>> this is proof of Bad Writing and that the show had Jumped The Shark,
>>>> and it was probably all Marti Noxon's fault.
>>> Heh. Somehow I'm guessing that those people found plenty to complain
>>> about. Hope it wasn't too labor-intensive for them.
>> Hell, no, they didn't even break a sweat, but it definitely exhausted
>> some of us who had to weed through those posts...
>
> NIce to see AQQ and the gang are as condescending as usual.
That was a lot milder than what some of the bashers dealt to anybody who
disagreed with them, EGK. You know that as well as I do, admit it or not.
> Hypocritical
> much?
Well, you know, if the bashers could dish it out, especially to the
level of venom that a few of them reached, they oughta be able to take
it, no? If they can't, then what's that called? Hm, word starts with
an "H"... oh, yeah...
> I don't like seasons 6 or 7 and decided to quit posting about it
> following Brooklyn Ken's lead after the season 5 reviews.. Nice to see you
> guys miss the naysayers so much you still have to talk about them. -:)
Let's face it, if I was posting half a dozen comments a day, I'd still
have a long way to go to catch up with some of'em...
EGK
<rowan_h...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>EGK wrote:
>> On Fri, 08 Sep 2006 23:37:46 -0400, Rowan Hawthorn
>> <rowan_h...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Arbitrar Of Quality wrote:
>>>> Stephen Tempest wrote:
>>>>> A classic "hanging a lantern on things". I guarantee that if they
>>>>> hadn't included that line, there'd be a 300-post argument about how
>>>>> you can't make a mobile phone call from an underground cellar, and
>>>>> this is proof of Bad Writing and that the show had Jumped The Shark,
>>>>> and it was probably all Marti Noxon's fault.
>>>> Heh. Somehow I'm guessing that those people found plenty to complain
>>>> about. Hope it wasn't too labor-intensive for them.
>>> Hell, no, they didn't even break a sweat, but it definitely exhausted
>>> some of us who had to weed through those posts...
>>
>> NIce to see AQQ and the gang are as condescending as usual.
>
>That was a lot milder than what some of the bashers dealt to anybody who
>disagreed with them, EGK. You know that as well as I do, admit it or not.
The point is you guys are busy here making a thread about things that
haven't even happened so what's your beef? Stephen starts with a classic
strawman, AQQ adds his typical condescending reply and then you pile on. Who
exactly are you arguing with if most people who didn't like those seasons
have quit posting?
>> Hypocritical
>> much?
>
>Well, you know, if the bashers could dish it out, especially to the
>level of venom that a few of them reached, they oughta be able to take
>it, no? If they can't, then what's that called? Hm, word starts with
>an "H"... oh, yeah...
I don't recall bitching about "you people" when you aren't even in a thread.
AQQ said I was condescending when he didn't like a response to him in a
thread during his season 6 reviews. Geezus. His very moniker is
condescending to say the least. I just find it amusing that he can dish it
out but can't take it.
>> I don't like seasons 6 or 7 and decided to quit posting about it
>> following Brooklyn Ken's lead after the season 5 reviews.. Nice to see you
>> guys miss the naysayers so much you still have to talk about them. -:)
>
>Let's face it, if I was posting half a dozen comments a day, I'd still
>have a long way to go to catch up with some of'em...
So you're not happy that most of the naysayers have quit bothering to follow
along? Instead you're just looking for fights? I don't get it.
Mel
vague disclaimer wrote:
> In article <12g3m26...@news.supernews.com>,
> "One Bit Shy" <O...@nomail.sorry> wrote:
>
>
>> But, yes, belatedly taking
>>responsibility for Willow is interesting.
>
>
> Willow, being neither a Slayer nor an orphan, is not Giles's
> responsibility in any legal or moral sense.
>
> That he takes responsibility gladly and out of his love for her doesn't
> really deserve cheapening with the 'belatedly' crack.
It's not like he is taking responsbility for teaching her. He finally
has access to people (the coven) who can help her in ways he never
could, and teach her things about magic he can't possibly know because
he's not a witch (warlock).
Mel
Mel
lili...@gmail.com wrote:
> vague disclaimer wrote:
>
>>In article <12g3m26...@news.supernews.com>,
>> "One Bit Shy" <O...@nomail.sorry> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> But, yes, belatedly taking
>>>responsibility for Willow is interesting.
>>
>>Willow, being neither a Slayer nor an orphan, is not Giles's
>>responsibility in any legal or moral sense.
>>
>>That he takes responsibility gladly and out of his love for her doesn't
>>really deserve cheapening with the 'belatedly' crack.
>>--
>>Wikipedia: like Usenet, moderated by trolls
>
>
> Well I don't know, but seeing as how it's his fault she got involved
> with magic, it was his responsibility to make sure she was being
> careful with it. At the very least to keep her from becoming a threat.
> He didn't do so until it was far far too late.
>
>
>
> Lore
>
How so? She got started using magic because of the files she found on
Jenny Calendar's computer, including the restoration spell. How is that
Giles' fault? Because he dated her? It's not like he could forbid Willow
to practice magic. She wasn't exactly open about what she was doing,
either, especially since she knew Giles wouldn't approve if he knew. He
was actually shocked that she thought she could do the soul spell.
Mel
lili...@gmail.com
Mel schreef:
> jil...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> >
> > Ah, I'm reminded. They aren't ghosts. Spike says "Manifest spirits
> > controlled by a talisman, raised to seek vengeance. A 4-year-old could
> > figure it."
>
>
> The big question being, how does he know this????
Why wouldn't he? He's been around long enough to pick up a few bits of
knowledge.
Lore
Mel
Elisi
One Bit Shy wrote:
> <lili...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1157749537.7...@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > One Bit Shy wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> > That's the cue for Spike to pop up, letting us know what he'd be
> >> > like without the steady infusion of peroxide and with a soul.
> >>
> >> I had to laugh at the awful face Buffy made when he saw him. Pretty much
> >> my
> >> reaction to what may be the worst hair of the series.
> >>
> >
> > OK, now that one I couldn't leave standing.
> > Worst hair of the series?
> >
> > He's gorgeous with that hair, that's probably the best hair he's had in
> > all his time on Buffy. Come on? How could anyone not love that hair?
> >
> > Honestly, that scene with Buffy, Spike all vulnerable and soft, with
> > that hair, those clothes, that's the best JM has ever looked. It's
> > stunning.
> > Drop dead gorgeous.
>
>
> I have it on good authority that Buffy agrees with me. ;-)
>
> OBS
I'd say 99% of the female friends agree with Lore (and me!).
Crazy!Spike is Drop Dead Gorgeous - I mean seriously, he's all
vulnerable and hurting. Women are onto that kinda thing faster than
Oprah on a ham sandwich. ;)
(That said, Weak!Angel from early S3 does nothing for me, except annoy
me slighty.)
Oh and if you've finished ATS S5 you should read these posts:
http://www.livejournal.com/tools/memories.bml?user=the_royal_anna&keyword=AtS&filter=all
And I posted your Hells Bells thoughts yesterday. If you're curious as
to what people are thinking (and want to join in?) please check it out:
http://elisi.livejournal.com/185181.html
Paul Hyett
>
>Couple of other points.
>
>Xander looking unconscionably spiffy. From waster to site foreman with
>nice car in two years.
Well, he's finally found something he's good at (apart from being
pummelled by demons). Maybe he also recognised the confidence within
himself after the Toth incident.
--
Paul 'Charts Fan' Hyett
Paul Hyett
>
>> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
>> Season Seven, Episode 1: "Lessons"
>> (or "THE BEST BREASTS OF ALL THE MOTHERS")
>> Writer: Joss Whedon
>> Director: David Solomon
>
>to be, know how much power you really have, i.e., know your limitations.
>Good advice for everyone, even Slayers.
Yes - she learned a hard lesson about overconfidence in 'Fool For Love'.
Paul Hyett
>> And does no one have anything to say about the Robin Hood reference in
>> his name?
>
>He was named "Robin" because Joss wanted a name that could belong to a
>male or a female.
ISTM that only applies in America - I don't recall any females in
Britain being named Robin.